---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/17/08: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:08 AM - Re: First flight and governor (Jesse Saint) 2. 05:46 AM - Re: SB (Fixitauto@AOL.COM) 3. 05:59 AM - Re: Re: door pins (MauleDriver) 4. 06:06 AM - Re: SB (Rick Sked) 5. 06:06 AM - Boston Area RV-10 Builders? (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 6. 06:16 AM - Re: Boston Area RV-10 Builders? (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 7. 06:27 AM - Re: Re: door pins (Fred Williams, M.D.) 8. 06:28 AM - Re: SB (linn Walters) 9. 06:43 AM - Wheel Jack (Sam) 10. 06:45 AM - Re: SB (Bob Kaufmann) 11. 07:34 AM - Re: Wheel Jack (Albert Gardner) 12. 08:20 AM - Re: SB (Rick Sked) 13. 08:41 AM - Re: Wheel Jack (Sam) 14. 09:22 AM - Re: Re: door pins (MauleDriver) 15. 09:55 AM - window adhesives revisited. (John Gonzalez) 16. 10:32 AM - Re: window adhesives revisited. (Jim Berry) 17. 10:49 AM - Re: window adhesives revisited. (gary) 18. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: door pins (John Testement) 19. 01:19 PM - Re: Re: door pins (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 20. 01:23 PM - Re: First flight and governor (Chris and Susie McGough) 21. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: door pins (Rene Felker) 22. 01:42 PM - Re: Re: door pins (MauleDriver) 23. 01:49 PM - Re: Re: door pins (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 24. 02:13 PM - Re: Re: door pins (MauleDriver) 25. 02:17 PM - Re: SB (Doug Preston) 26. 05:12 PM - Re: SB (Scott Schmidt) 27. 06:09 PM - Door Armrest? (rv10builder) 28. 06:25 PM - Re: Door Armrest? () 29. 06:31 PM - Re: Door Armrest? (Robert Wright) 30. 06:36 PM - Re: Door Armrest? (Chris and Susie McGough) 31. 07:44 PM - Re: SB (Bill DeRouchey) 32. 08:07 PM - Re: Door Armrest? (Dave Saylor) 33. 10:29 PM - Re: Re: door pins (Robin Marks) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:25 AM PST US From: Jesse Saint Subject: Re: RV10-List: First flight and governor Chris, If you are getting somewhere near your max RPM on a static run-up, then I would recommend flying it first and record your max RPM on initial climb-out, then readjust the governor and try it the next time. Your static run-up should get close, but it won't make it all the way to full RPM. If, however, you are only getting 2300 or something like that on static, then I would recommend an adjustment of the stops on the governor first. Also, check the RPM with a laser/ optical tach so you know that your engine monitor is reading correctly. There are different settings coming from different engines, so the engine monitor needs to know how to read correctly. do not archive Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On Jun 17, 2008, at 1:40 AM, Chris and Susie McGough wrote: > > > > Just recieved the Dynon back from Dynon which they replaced with a > new one. Did engine start today and due to a few reasons I had to > run the engine longer than I would like. I am not getting the 2700 > RPM and I do I understand I need to Adjust the governor but my > question is can I go flying now and Adjusted it after each flight > till its right. I realy do not want to start the engine again till > first flight on Sat weather permiting?? > > regards Chris VH-ICY > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:42 AM PST US From: Fixitauto@AOL.COM Subject: Re: RV10-List: SB Rick so how many drilled out and replaced rivets will this bring your total up to? **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:31 AM PST US From: MauleDriver Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: door pins AirMike wrote: > Go for the Rivethead pin blocks. They are so good and so smooth that I consider them a MANDATORY option. The standard system is so inferior to the Rivethead system it is crazy to struggle with it. The Rivethead system is not perfectly straightforward but it is pretty slick when it is finished. > I'd have to totally agree given my recent experience installing them. There is little installation guidance but muddling thru worked quite well. A few tips based on my experience: - install the nylon blocks in the door as far back in their recesses as possible. Don't just clear the outer edge of the recess but shape it so it can clear the edge by a 1/8" or so. - Adjust the latch arms so the pins touch but don't necessarily penetrate the door sill (Mine penetrate slightly) - use the Rivethead pins to mark the location of the blocks by just dabbing some ink on the tip, holding the door in place, and operating the latch. Do one block at a time - fabricate a 10-32 threaded pin with a point on it. Screw them into the Rivethead block, use the inked mark to locate the block and use a mallet to mark 1 mounting hole. - With one hole drilled and a screw inserted, put the threaded pin in the other hole, operate the latch, get the door in the flush position you want, tighten the bolt. Them unlatch the door, move it out of the way, and use a mallet to mark the 2nd hole. That gave me just about a perfect fit - for the time being anyway. Very nice pins and blocks. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:08 AM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: SB LOL....well these will be the first ones for real, I messed=C2- up one on =C2-my practice kit...except of course the ones for the Vertical Stab SB =C2-and all of Bob Kauffmans I helped drill out for=C2-him. ...I knew t hat crack about never having to drill one out would come back sometime!! Th anks for putting a big smile on my face to start the day. Rick Sked 40185 do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Fixitauto@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 5:41:15 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: Re: RV10-List: SB Rick so how many drilled out and replaced rivets will this bring your total up to? Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars =========== ==== ======================= === ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:12 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Boston Area RV-10 Builders? From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" I'm in the Boston area all week and looks like I will have plenty of slack time. If there are any builders in the area up for a visit contact me offline. Bob N442PM (flying) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:14 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Boston Area RV-10 Builders? From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" Forgot that it strips my email address. Contact at bob.condrey (at) baesystems.com. Bob _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA) Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 8:59 AM Subject: RV10-List: Boston Area RV-10 Builders? I'm in the Boston area all week and looks like I will have plenty of slack time. If there are any builders in the area up for a visit contact me offline. Bob N442PM (flying) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:11 AM PST US From: "Fred Williams, M.D." Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: door pins MauleDriver: Did you have your seal on the door? Dr Fred 40515. MauleDriver wrote: > > AirMike wrote: >> Go for the Rivethead pin blocks. They are so good and so smooth that >> I consider them a MANDATORY option. The standard system is so >> inferior to the Rivethead system it is crazy to struggle with it. The >> Rivethead system is not perfectly straightforward but it is pretty >> slick when it is finished. >> > I'd have to totally agree given my recent experience installing them. > There is little installation guidance but muddling thru worked quite > well. A few tips based on my experience: > - install the nylon blocks in the door as far back in their recesses > as possible. Don't just clear the outer edge of the recess but shape > it so it can clear the edge by a 1/8" or so. > - Adjust the latch arms so the pins touch but don't necessarily > penetrate the door sill (Mine penetrate slightly) > - use the Rivethead pins to mark the location of the blocks by just > dabbing some ink on the tip, holding the door in place, and operating > the latch. Do one block at a time > - fabricate a 10-32 threaded pin with a point on it. Screw them into > the Rivethead block, use the inked mark to locate the block and use a > mallet to mark 1 mounting hole. > - With one hole drilled and a screw inserted, put the threaded pin in > the other hole, operate the latch, get the door in the flush position > you want, tighten the bolt. Them unlatch the door, move it out of the > way, and use a mallet to mark the 2nd hole. > > That gave me just about a perfect fit - for the time being anyway. > Very nice pins and blocks. > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:50 AM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: SB Fixitauto@aol.com wrote: > Rick so how many drilled out and replaced rivets will this bring your > total up to? Man, that's brutal!!! Kinda like asking how the sex is at home!!! :-P Wish I had drilled out as many (no matter how many) because I'd be further along!!! Linn do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:06 AM PST US From: Sam Subject: RV10-List: Wheel Jack Does anyone have experience with using a wheel jack for the RV10, good or bad recommendations? Sam #40157 And no cracks! ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:40 AM PST US From: "Bob Kaufmann" Subject: RE: RV10-List: SB ROFLMAOEvery time I go over to Rick=99s its like walking on a floor covered with little bitty aluminum donuts, wonder why they are all over the place. Bob Kaufmann N104BK, In the air, just a couple of inches. Do not archive From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 5:59 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: SB LOL....well these will be the first ones for real, I messed up one on my practice kit...except of course the ones for the Vertical Stab SB and all of Bob Kauffmans I helped drill out for him. ...I knew that crack about never having to drill one out would come back sometime!! Thanks for putting a big smile on my face to start the day. Rick Sked 40185 do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Fixitauto@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 5:41:15 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: Re: RV10-List: SB Rick so how many drilled out and replaced rivets will this bring your total up to? _____ Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars . 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:44 AM PST US From: "Albert Gardner" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wheel Jack I use the type that uses a short bottle jack and goes into the hollow axel after you remove the axel nut. Works fine and much better than the type that uses a bracket clamped to the gear leg to provide a place to put a bottle jack. The bracket often slips on the gear leg. However, when possible I use wing jacks. Much safer. Albert Gardner N991RV Yuma, AZ -----Original Message----- Does anyone have experience with using a wheel jack for the RV10, good or bad recommendations? Sam #40157 And no cracks! ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:21 AM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: SB Those are not drilled out rivets...they are microstop shavings. Rick Sked 4015 do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Kaufmann" Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 6:42:49 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RE: RV10-List: SB ROFLMAOEvery time I go over to Rick=99s its like wa lking on a floor covered with little bitty aluminum donuts, wonder why they are all over the place. Bob Kaufmann N104BK, In the air, just a couple of inches. =C2-Do not archive From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 5:59 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: SB LOL....well these will be the first ones for real, I messed=C2- up one on =C2-my practice kit...except of course the ones for the Vertical Stab SB =C2-and all of Bob Kauffmans I helped drill out for=C2-him. ...I knew t hat crack about never having to drill one out would come back sometime!! Th anks for putting a big smile on my face to start the day. Rick Sked 40185 do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Fixitauto@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 5:41:15 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: Re: RV10-List: SB Rick so how many drilled out and replaced rivets will this bring your total up to? Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars . =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1 0-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ============ ==== ======================= == ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:42 AM PST US From: Sam Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wheel Jack Thanks Albert do not archive Albert Gardner wrote: > > I use the type that uses a short bottle jack and goes into the hollow axel > after you remove the axel nut. Works fine and much better than the type that > uses a bracket clamped to the gear leg to provide a place to put a bottle > jack. The bracket often slips on the gear leg. However, when possible I use > wing jacks. Much safer. > Albert Gardner > N991RV > Yuma, AZ > > -----Original Message----- > Does anyone have experience with using a wheel jack for the RV10, good > or bad recommendations? > Sam > #40157 > And no cracks! > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:41 AM PST US From: MauleDriver Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: door pins Fred Williams, M.D. wrote: > MauleDriver: > > Did you have your seal on the door? > Dr Fred > 40515. Nope. >> >> That gave me just about a perfect fit - for the time being anyway. >> Bill Watson 40605 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:49 AM PST US From: John Gonzalez Subject: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. I jumped the gun a while back and didn't carefully enough look at the instr uctions on the Sikaflex web site. If I hadn't already painted the interior of my canopy I would have added fiberglass to the inside of the window flan ge to thicken it so that I could deepen the flange to allow a greqater bond thickness Also, at initial trimming I would have als left the flange one i nch wide not 3/4" wide. The pros with the use of Sikaflex is the idea of a floating acrylic window which would allow for expansion and contraction. The thermal coefficient of expansion between the frame and the window is huge. Because of this, Sikaf lex requires a 3/16'" thick bond thickness and an expansion gap at the edge of 1/4" to 3/8". Given all these requirements, my existing frame flange wi ll need to be thinned by 1/16" and the window thinned by 1/16" whick would still leave the window proud of the outside contour. Also because the flang e is only 3/4", and because we would need a minimum of 1/4" expansion gap, when the window contracts in the cold it will not have that much bond space .. I orderred the Weld on and will most likely do it that way and bond it and cover the gap and the edge of the window and the canopy with fiberglass for a smooth transition as I see on most fiberglass ships. The thing that concerns me is that we are trying to contain/constrict the p lexiglass during expansion and contraction and that just doesn't seem right . I suppose the Glasair guys with 10 year old ships should be able to put m y concerns at ease. Oh well, just the over analysing dentist in me. JOhn G. #409 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:13 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: window adhesives revisited. From: "Jim Berry" Even if you use an adhesive that requires less bond thickness, you will have places where the window stands proud of the cabin surface. There will also be places where the door is proud of the top, and other places where the top is proud of the door. You should be very proud. All of this can be accommodated by contouring with micro or other lightweight filler. Jim Berry 40482 Proud to be finished with fiberglass Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188333#188333 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:52 AM PST US From: "gary" Subject: RE: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. I flew my Glasair III with =BD=94 thick windshield for 15 years with it bonded into the frame with epoxy with no problems of cracking or crazing. With that thick of windshield there is no flexing of the acrylic to take up any differential in expansion either. There are many hundreds of Glasairs out there with the same proven record. You can tell from the above comment how I put my window in the 10. Gary 40274 Flying _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 11:53 AM Subject: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. I jumped the gun a while back and didn't carefully enough look at the instructions on the Sikaflex web site. If I hadn't already painted the interior of my canopy I would have added fiberglass to the inside of the window flange to thicken it so that I could deepen the flange to allow a greqater bond thickness Also, at initial trimming I would have als left the flange one inch wide not 3/4" wide. The pros with the use of Sikaflex is the idea of a floating acrylic window which would allow for expansion and contraction. The thermal coefficient of expansion between the frame and the window is huge. Because of this, Sikaflex requires a 3/16'" thick bond thickness and an expansion gap at the edge of 1/4" to 3/8". Given all these requirements, my existing frame flange will need to be thinned by 1/16" and the window thinned by 1/16" whick would still leave the window proud of the outside contour. Also because the flange is only 3/4", and because we would need a minimum of 1/4" expansion gap, when the window contracts in the cold it will not have that much bond space. I orderred the Weld on and will most likely do it that way and bond it and cover the gap and the edge of the window and the canopy with fiberglass for a smooth transition as I see on most fiberglass ships. The thing that concerns me is that we are trying to contain/constrict the plexiglass during expansion and contraction and that just doesn't seem right. I suppose the Glasair guys with 10 year old ships should be able to put my concerns at ease. Oh well, just the over analysing dentist in me. JOhn G. #409 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:52 PM PST US From: "John Testement" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: door pins Although the Rivethead pin blocks look much cleaner than the Van's design, I would still be very worried about a design that did not have the pins going completely through the metal door frame. Can the Rivethead be installed in a way that allows the pins to go all the way in? John Testement jwt@roadmapscoaching.com 40321 Richmond, VA Painting and final assembly do not archive MauleDriver wrote: > > AirMike wrote: >> Go for the Rivethead pin blocks. They are so good and so smooth that >> I consider them a MANDATORY option. The standard system is so >> inferior to the Rivethead system it is crazy to struggle with it. The >> Rivethead system is not perfectly straightforward but it is pretty >> slick when it is finished. >> > I'd have to totally agree given my recent experience installing them. > There is little installation guidance but muddling thru worked quite > well. A few tips based on my experience: > - install the nylon blocks in the door as far back in their recesses > as possible. Don't just clear the outer edge of the recess but shape > it so it can clear the edge by a 1/8" or so. > - Adjust the latch arms so the pins touch but don't necessarily > penetrate the door sill (Mine penetrate slightly) > - use the Rivethead pins to mark the location of the blocks by just > dabbing some ink on the tip, holding the door in place, and operating > the latch. Do one block at a time > - fabricate a 10-32 threaded pin with a point on it. Screw them into > the Rivethead block, use the inked mark to locate the block and use a > mallet to mark 1 mounting hole. > - With one hole drilled and a screw inserted, put the threaded pin in > the other hole, operate the latch, get the door in the flush position > you want, tighten the bolt. Them unlatch the door, move it out of the > way, and use a mallet to mark the 2nd hole. > > That gave me just about a perfect fit - for the time being anyway. > Very nice pins and blocks. > Checked by AVG. 7:20 AM ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:41 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: door pins From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" Not sure why folks think the Rivethead and IFLYRV10 pins/guides don't go all the way through. The pins stick out the back side of the frame just like the stock aluminum rods. Bob N442PM (flying) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Testement Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:08 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: door pins Although the Rivethead pin blocks look much cleaner than the Van's design, I would still be very worried about a design that did not have the pins going completely through the metal door frame. Can the Rivethead be installed in a way that allows the pins to go all the way in? John Testement jwt@roadmapscoaching.com 40321 Richmond, VA Painting and final assembly do not archive MauleDriver wrote: > > AirMike wrote: >> Go for the Rivethead pin blocks. They are so good and so smooth that >> I consider them a MANDATORY option. The standard system is so >> inferior to the Rivethead system it is crazy to struggle with it. The >> Rivethead system is not perfectly straightforward but it is pretty >> slick when it is finished. >> > I'd have to totally agree given my recent experience installing them. > There is little installation guidance but muddling thru worked quite > well. A few tips based on my experience: > - install the nylon blocks in the door as far back in their recesses > as possible. Don't just clear the outer edge of the recess but shape > it so it can clear the edge by a 1/8" or so. > - Adjust the latch arms so the pins touch but don't necessarily > penetrate the door sill (Mine penetrate slightly) > - use the Rivethead pins to mark the location of the blocks by just > dabbing some ink on the tip, holding the door in place, and operating > the latch. Do one block at a time > - fabricate a 10-32 threaded pin with a point on it. Screw them into > the Rivethead block, use the inked mark to locate the block and use a > mallet to mark 1 mounting hole. > - With one hole drilled and a screw inserted, put the threaded pin in > the other hole, operate the latch, get the door in the flush position > you want, tighten the bolt. Them unlatch the door, move it out of the > way, and use a mallet to mark the 2nd hole. > > That gave me just about a perfect fit - for the time being anyway. > Very nice pins and blocks. > Checked by AVG. 7:20 AM ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:10 PM PST US From: "Chris and Susie McGough" Subject: Re: RV10-List: First flight and governor Thanks Jesse I have a mate coming Thursday with his calabrated RPM tester so will do just that. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jesse Saint" Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:03 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: First flight and governor > > Chris, > > If you are getting somewhere near your max RPM on a static run-up, then I > would recommend flying it first and record your max RPM on initial > climb-out, then readjust the governor and try it the next time. Your > static run-up should get close, but it won't make it all the way to full > RPM. If, however, you are only getting 2300 or something like that on > static, then I would recommend an adjustment of the stops on the governor > first. Also, check the RPM with a laser/ optical tach so you know that > your engine monitor is reading correctly. There are different settings > coming from different engines, so the engine monitor needs to know how to > read correctly. > > do not archive > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse@saintaviation.com > Cell: 352-427-0285 > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > On Jun 17, 2008, at 1:40 AM, Chris and Susie McGough wrote: > >> > > >> >> Just recieved the Dynon back from Dynon which they replaced with a new >> one. Did engine start today and due to a few reasons I had to run the >> engine longer than I would like. I am not getting the 2700 RPM and I do >> I understand I need to Adjust the governor but my question is can I go >> flying now and Adjusted it after each flight till its right. I realy do >> not want to start the engine again till first flight on Sat weather >> permiting?? >> >> regards Chris VH-ICY >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:45 PM PST US From: "Rene Felker" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: door pins If you follow the directions for the rivethead pins....or was it a video.....the pins and blocks were designed to NOT go past the door frame so that you would not damage the skin if the door was closed with the pins extended. They only hit the block. I installed mime that way and thus my pins do not go through the frame. I see no reason why you could not make the rods longer and have them go through the frame. They would still work the same way, but if the pins were extended and you attempt to close the door you would hit the skin of the airplane. Rene' Felker RV-10 N423CF Flying 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA) Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:17 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: door pins Not sure why folks think the Rivethead and IFLYRV10 pins/guides don't go all the way through. The pins stick out the back side of the frame just like the stock aluminum rods. Bob N442PM (flying) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Testement Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:08 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: door pins Although the Rivethead pin blocks look much cleaner than the Van's design, I would still be very worried about a design that did not have the pins going completely through the metal door frame. Can the Rivethead be installed in a way that allows the pins to go all the way in? John Testement jwt@roadmapscoaching.com 40321 Richmond, VA Painting and final assembly do not archive MauleDriver wrote: > > AirMike wrote: >> Go for the Rivethead pin blocks. They are so good and so smooth that >> I consider them a MANDATORY option. The standard system is so >> inferior to the Rivethead system it is crazy to struggle with it. The >> Rivethead system is not perfectly straightforward but it is pretty >> slick when it is finished. >> > I'd have to totally agree given my recent experience installing them. > There is little installation guidance but muddling thru worked quite > well. A few tips based on my experience: > - install the nylon blocks in the door as far back in their recesses > as possible. Don't just clear the outer edge of the recess but shape > it so it can clear the edge by a 1/8" or so. > - Adjust the latch arms so the pins touch but don't necessarily > penetrate the door sill (Mine penetrate slightly) > - use the Rivethead pins to mark the location of the blocks by just > dabbing some ink on the tip, holding the door in place, and operating > the latch. Do one block at a time > - fabricate a 10-32 threaded pin with a point on it. Screw them into > the Rivethead block, use the inked mark to locate the block and use a > mallet to mark 1 mounting hole. > - With one hole drilled and a screw inserted, put the threaded pin in > the other hole, operate the latch, get the door in the flush position > you want, tighten the bolt. Them unlatch the door, move it out of the > way, and use a mallet to mark the 2nd hole. > > That gave me just about a perfect fit - for the time being anyway. > Very nice pins and blocks. > Checked by AVG. 7:20 AM ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:47 PM PST US From: MauleDriver Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: door pins Yes they can. The disadvantage of doing so is that the door remains subject to banging up the skin. That is, the door could be slammed shut with the pins extended. I still have the option but haven't drilled the holes yet. I"m thinking I'll work ahead for a bit and see what the door seal deal is. So, the question with the rivet head pins seems to be, is the shear strength of 2 AN3 bolts enough? And is the block itself strong enough to serve as the sole restraint of the pins? Or is it better to risk a few dings and use belts and suspenders? John Testement wrote: > > Although the Rivethead pin blocks look much cleaner than the Van's design, I > would still be very worried about a design that did not have the pins going > completely through the metal door frame. Can the Rivethead be installed in a > way that allows the pins to go all the way in? > > John Testement > jwt@roadmapscoaching.com > 40321 > Richmond, VA > Painting and final assembly > do not archive > > > MauleDriver wrote: > >> >> AirMike wrote: >> >>> Go for the Rivethead pin blocks. They are so good and so smooth that >>> I consider them a MANDATORY option. The standard system is so >>> inferior to the Rivethead system it is crazy to struggle with it. The >>> Rivethead system is not perfectly straightforward but it is pretty >>> slick when it is finished. >>> >>> >> I'd have to totally agree given my recent experience installing them. >> There is little installation guidance but muddling thru worked quite >> well. A few tips based on my experience: >> - install the nylon blocks in the door as far back in their recesses >> as possible. Don't just clear the outer edge of the recess but shape >> it so it can clear the edge by a 1/8" or so. >> - Adjust the latch arms so the pins touch but don't necessarily >> penetrate the door sill (Mine penetrate slightly) >> - use the Rivethead pins to mark the location of the blocks by just >> dabbing some ink on the tip, holding the door in place, and operating >> the latch. Do one block at a time >> - fabricate a 10-32 threaded pin with a point on it. Screw them into >> the Rivethead block, use the inked mark to locate the block and use a >> mallet to mark 1 mounting hole. >> - With one hole drilled and a screw inserted, put the threaded pin in >> the other hole, operate the latch, get the door in the flush position >> you want, tighten the bolt. Them unlatch the door, move it out of the >> way, and use a mallet to mark the 2nd hole. >> >> That gave me just about a perfect fit - for the time being anyway. >> Very nice pins and blocks. >> >> > > Checked by AVG. > 7:20 AM > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:49:59 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: door pins From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" I understand now! Interestingly I didn't get any instructions or video, just a set of wrapped up parts. BTW, I have looked at the IFLYRV10.com version of the guides and like them better (no affiliation with either). Big difference in design is that Steve's (IFLYRV10.com) have holes all the way through for mounting to make it easier. Other difference is that Steve ships them out within a day of the order using USPS Priority Mail:) Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:37 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: door pins If you follow the directions for the rivethead pins....or was it a video.....the pins and blocks were designed to NOT go past the door frame so that you would not damage the skin if the door was closed with the pins extended. They only hit the block. I installed mime that way and thus my pins do not go through the frame. I see no reason why you could not make the rods longer and have them go through the frame. They would still work the same way, but if the pins were extended and you attempt to close the door you would hit the skin of the airplane. Rene' Felker RV-10 N423CF Flying 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA) Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:17 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: door pins Not sure why folks think the Rivethead and IFLYRV10 pins/guides don't go all the way through. The pins stick out the back side of the frame just like the stock aluminum rods. Bob N442PM (flying) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Testement Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:08 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: door pins Although the Rivethead pin blocks look much cleaner than the Van's design, I would still be very worried about a design that did not have the pins going completely through the metal door frame. Can the Rivethead be installed in a way that allows the pins to go all the way in? John Testement jwt@roadmapscoaching.com 40321 Richmond, VA Painting and final assembly do not archive MauleDriver wrote: > > AirMike wrote: >> Go for the Rivethead pin blocks. They are so good and so smooth that >> I consider them a MANDATORY option. The standard system is so >> inferior to the Rivethead system it is crazy to struggle with it. The >> Rivethead system is not perfectly straightforward but it is pretty >> slick when it is finished. >> > I'd have to totally agree given my recent experience installing them. > There is little installation guidance but muddling thru worked quite > well. A few tips based on my experience: > - install the nylon blocks in the door as far back in their recesses > as possible. Don't just clear the outer edge of the recess but shape > it so it can clear the edge by a 1/8" or so. > - Adjust the latch arms so the pins touch but don't necessarily > penetrate the door sill (Mine penetrate slightly) > - use the Rivethead pins to mark the location of the blocks by just > dabbing some ink on the tip, holding the door in place, and operating > the latch. Do one block at a time > - fabricate a 10-32 threaded pin with a point on it. Screw them into > the Rivethead block, use the inked mark to locate the block and use a > mallet to mark 1 mounting hole. > - With one hole drilled and a screw inserted, put the threaded pin in > the other hole, operate the latch, get the door in the flush position > you want, tighten the bolt. Them unlatch the door, move it out of the > way, and use a mallet to mark the 2nd hole. > > That gave me just about a perfect fit - for the time being anyway. > Very nice pins and blocks. > Checked by AVG. 7:20 AM ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:26 PM PST US From: MauleDriver Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: door pins I don't think anyone got any directions. The Youtube video cleared up a few things and is a great sales pitch. I thought I'd prefer Steve's too... but after doing it I found that the blind drilling was actually quite simple. I have Steve's billet handles which are going in fine so far. I am missing the nylon guides (anyone else get them). I'm beginning to think that I don't need them but don't know. Steve? Anyone with installation experience? Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote: > > I understand now! Interestingly I didn't get any instructions or video, > just a set of wrapped up parts. > > BTW, I have looked at the IFLYRV10.com version of the guides and like > them better (no affiliation with either). Big difference in design is > that Steve's (IFLYRV10.com) have holes all the way through for mounting > to make it easier. Other difference is that Steve ships them out within > a day of the order using USPS Priority Mail:) > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:37 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: door pins > > > > If you follow the directions for the rivethead pins....or was it a > video.....the pins and blocks were designed to NOT go past the door > frame so > that you would not damage the skin if the door was closed with the pins > extended. They only hit the block. I installed mime that way and thus > my > pins do not go through the frame. > > I see no reason why you could not make the rods longer and have them go > through the frame. They would still work the same way, but if the pins > were > extended and you attempt to close the door you would hit the skin of the > airplane. > > Rene' Felker > RV-10 N423CF Flying > 801-721-6080 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob > (US > SSA) > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:17 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: door pins > > > > > Not sure why folks think the Rivethead and IFLYRV10 pins/guides don't go > all the way through. The pins stick out the back side of the frame just > like the stock aluminum rods. > > Bob > N442PM (flying) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John > Testement > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:08 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: door pins > > > > Although the Rivethead pin blocks look much cleaner than the Van's > design, I > would still be very worried about a design that did not have the pins > going > completely through the metal door frame. Can the Rivethead be installed > in a > way that allows the pins to go all the way in? > > John Testement > jwt@roadmapscoaching.com > 40321 > Richmond, VA > Painting and final assembly > do not archive > > > MauleDriver wrote: > >> >> AirMike wrote: >> >>> Go for the Rivethead pin blocks. They are so good and so smooth that >>> I consider them a MANDATORY option. The standard system is so >>> inferior to the Rivethead system it is crazy to struggle with it. The >>> > > >>> Rivethead system is not perfectly straightforward but it is pretty >>> slick when it is finished. >>> >>> >> I'd have to totally agree given my recent experience installing them. >> > > >> There is little installation guidance but muddling thru worked quite >> well. A few tips based on my experience: >> - install the nylon blocks in the door as far back in their recesses >> as possible. Don't just clear the outer edge of the recess but shape >> it so it can clear the edge by a 1/8" or so. >> - Adjust the latch arms so the pins touch but don't necessarily >> penetrate the door sill (Mine penetrate slightly) >> - use the Rivethead pins to mark the location of the blocks by just >> dabbing some ink on the tip, holding the door in place, and operating >> the latch. Do one block at a time >> - fabricate a 10-32 threaded pin with a point on it. Screw them into >> the Rivethead block, use the inked mark to locate the block and use a >> mallet to mark 1 mounting hole. >> - With one hole drilled and a screw inserted, put the threaded pin in >> the other hole, operate the latch, get the door in the flush position >> you want, tighten the bolt. Them unlatch the door, move it out of the >> > > >> way, and use a mallet to mark the 2nd hole. >> >> That gave me just about a perfect fit - for the time being anyway. >> Very nice pins and blocks. >> >> > > Checked by AVG. > 7:20 AM > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:42 PM PST US From: "Doug Preston" Subject: Re: RV10-List: SB N372RV - 117 HRS. LOOKS GOOD AS NEW. DOUG PRESTON BHM On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Sam wrote: > N540MR > 120 hrs and looks like new, no cracks! > > Jesse Saint wrote: > > N256H 503 Hrs and no cracks > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse@saintaviation.com > Cell: 352-427-0285 > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > On Jun 15, 2008, at 9:40 PM, GenGrumpy@aol.com wrote: > > N184JM > > 65 hrs and no cracks. > > Great borescope tool is the SeeSnake offered by Home Depot for under $200! > > grumpy > > do not archive > > > ------------------------------ > Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008 > . > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com" >http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:55 PM PST US From: Scott Schmidt Subject: Re: RV10-List: SB Did my inspection today and no cracks were found. Hours: 375 N104XP Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Doug Preston Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:14:38 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: SB N372RV - 117 HRS. LOOKS GOOD AS NEW. DOUG PRESTON BHM On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Sam wrote: N540MR 120 hrs and looks like new, no cracks! Jesse Saint wrote: N256H 503 Hrs and no cracks Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On Jun 15, 2008, at 9:40 PM, GenGrumpy@aol.com wrote: N184JM 65 hrs and no cracks. Great borescope tool is the SeeSnake offered by Home Depot for under $200! grumpy do not archive ________________________________ Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:04 PM PST US From: rv10builder Subject: RV10-List: Door Armrest? A couple of flight instructors have sat/ridden in my -10 and have remarked that I should consider installing an armrest on the inside of the door. I've seen the center console solution but has anyone attached them to the door? Brian Sutherland Nashville, TN N104BS 42 hours...no cracks, and headed to Glo-Custom in 2 weeks! ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:37 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door Armrest? I was also considering something like this by bolding a armrest to the door using fiberglass layups. Ray ---- rv10builder wrote: > > A couple of flight instructors have sat/ridden in my -10 and have > remarked that I should consider installing an armrest on the inside of > the door. I've seen the center console solution but has anyone attached > them to the door? > > Brian Sutherland > Nashville, TN > N104BS > 42 hours...no cracks, and headed to Glo-Custom in 2 weeks! > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:44 PM PST US From: Robert Wright Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door Armrest? give 'em a book or something else that takes two hands to do, and then tell them to install armrests in their airplane!- Oh - they're riding in your s!=0A=0ARob=0Acan't wait to take some pax=0A=0A----- Original Message ---- =0AFrom: rv10builder =0ATo: "rv10-list@matronics .com" =0ASent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:05:56 PM rv10builder =0A=0AA couple of- flight instruct ors have sat/ridden in my -10 and have =0Aremarked that I should consider i nstalling an armrest on the inside of =0Athe door.- I've seen the center console solution but has anyone attached =0Athem to the door?=0A=0ABrian Su therland=0ANashville, TN=0AN104BS=0A42 hours...no cracks, and headed to Glo -=- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Drall ==========0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:27 PM PST US From: "Chris and Susie McGough" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door Armrest? Next to the stubby holder eh? do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:22 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door Armrest? > > I was also considering something like this by bolding a armrest to the > door using fiberglass layups. > > Ray > > ---- rv10builder wrote: >> >> A couple of flight instructors have sat/ridden in my -10 and have >> remarked that I should consider installing an armrest on the inside of >> the door. I've seen the center console solution but has anyone attached >> them to the door? >> >> Brian Sutherland >> Nashville, TN >> N104BS >> 42 hours...no cracks, and headed to Glo-Custom in 2 weeks! >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:51 PM PST US From: Bill DeRouchey Subject: Re: RV10-List: SB N939SB - 200 hrs, no cracks. Bill --- On Tue, 6/17/08, Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RV10-List: SB Did my inspection today and no cracks were found.  Hours: 375 N104XP  Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Doug Preston <dougpflyrv@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:14:38 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: SB N372RV - 117 HRS. LOOKS GOOD AS NEW. DOUG PRESTON BHM On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Sam <sam@fr8dog.net> wrote: N540MR 120 hrs and looks like new, no cracks! Jesse Saint wrote: N256H 503 Hrs and no cracks Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On Jun 15, 2008, at 9:40 PM, GenGrumpy@aol.com wrote: N184JM   65 hrs and no cracks.   Great borescope tool is the SeeSnake offered by Home Depot for under $200!   grumpy   do not archive Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:26 PM PST US From: "Dave Saylor" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door Armrest? Brian, I don't have armrests, just some padding on the lower part of the door. Also, I painted the upper part with texture paint, like truck bedliner. Whatever I did, when it came back from upholstry with the new padding in place, the strut wouldn't hold the door up all the time. It's just heavy eneough now to let it come slamming down if it's cold or in a gentle breeze. I measured the strut force and it's fine--I guess it's just a heavy door now. Both doors are virtually identical, but the left side stays up just fine. So, be careful what you add to the door. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv10builder Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 6:06 PM Subject: RV10-List: Door Armrest? A couple of flight instructors have sat/ridden in my -10 and have remarked that I should consider installing an armrest on the inside of the door. I've seen the center console solution but has anyone attached them to the door? Brian Sutherland Nashville, TN N104BS 42 hours...no cracks, and headed to Glo-Custom in 2 weeks! ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:37 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: door pins From: "Robin Marks" As part of our build we plan to imbed a polished metal strike plate on the exterior where the rods WILL hit when the door is closed with the lock engaged. I will not be painting this plate and view the polished metal as a feature. Sure beats seeing those chips on a brand new paint job. My Tip Up 6A has two and basically only two blemishes on the entire plane. Both are where the rear band of the tip up could potentially slide under the metal body trim. I know how to open & close the canopy but A&P's and others don't and WHAMO... a scar on each side that I see each and every time I get in the plane. Bummer. On another note I just had a close up look at the "Cessna" 400. Cessna had a demo day at my airport so I strolled around the bird for some time. I have seen them before and always admired the Columbia but I really got to poke around to observe it in detail. That plane is an absolutely a work of art. Expensive art at $640K a copy but definitely art. Don't get me wrong I love the -10 and think it's the best plane for me and my mission (and wallet) but the Columbia exquisite. Robin Getting closer all the time. Will just miss flying to OSH but I will be there for a couple of days sans the 10. SJ Plenum in place. SJ Cowl almost on. Sure wish there was an after marked air box for the Cold Air Induction engine. 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