---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/19/08: 37 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:25 AM - Re: HID lights () 2. 08:45 AM - Re: window adhesives revisited. (John Jessen) 3. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5 (pascal) 4. 09:17 AM - Re: window adhesives revisited. (Rick Sked) 5. 09:18 AM - Re: window adhesives revisited. (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 6. 09:45 AM - Re: window adhesives revisited. (John Gonzalez) 7. 09:46 AM - HS doublwers and j channels (John Cumins) 8. 09:56 AM - Re: HS doublwers and j channels (Rick Sked) 9. 09:58 AM - Re: HS doublwers and j channels (egohr1) 10. 10:02 AM - Re: window adhesives revisited. (Ben Westfall) 11. 10:12 AM - Re: HS doublwers and j channels (pascal) 12. 10:14 AM - Re: HS doublwers and j channels (John Jessen) 13. 10:34 AM - Re: HS doublwers and j channels (John Cumins) 14. 10:38 AM - Garmin Navigation??? (Robin Marks) 15. 10:52 AM - Re: HS doublwers and j channels (John Jessen) 16. 11:24 AM - Re: HS doublwers and j channels (Rick Sked) 17. 11:38 AM - Re: HS doublwers and j channels (John Jessen) 18. 12:30 PM - OSH camping status .... lots of space available (Tim Olson) 19. 12:43 PM - Re: OSH camping status .... lots of space available (David McNeill) 20. 12:51 PM - Re: OSH camping status .... lots of space available (orchidman) 21. 12:53 PM - Re: HS doublers and j channels (Kelly McMullen) 22. 01:04 PM - Re: OSH camping status .... lots of space available (John Jessen) 23. 01:10 PM - Re: Re: OSH camping status .... lots of space available (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 24. 01:16 PM - Re: Re: OSH camping status .... lots of space available (Tim Olson) 25. 01:42 PM - Re: HS doublwers and j channels (pascal) 26. 02:24 PM - Re: Re: SB 08-6-1 Inspection (linn Walters) 27. 03:26 PM - Re: Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5 (RobHickman@aol.com) 28. 04:04 PM - Re: HS doublers and j channels (John Cumins) 29. 04:07 PM - Re: SB 08-6-1 Inspection (2eyedocs) 30. 04:50 PM - Re: Re: OSH camping status .... lots of space available (Rick Sked) 31. 05:57 PM - Re: OSH camping status .... lots of space available (orchidman) 32. 07:16 PM - Re: Re: SB 08-6-1 Inspection (GenGrumpy@aol.com) 33. 07:33 PM - Re: Re: SB 08-6-1 Inspection (linn Walters) 34. 07:52 PM - Re: HID lights (GenGrumpy@AOL.COM) 35. 09:19 PM - Re: window adhesives revisited. (John Cox) 36. 09:34 PM - Re: Re: SB 08-6-1 Inspection (John Cox) 37. 10:25 PM - HIDs (David McNeill) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:27 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV10-List: HID lights Can these HID lights be used with a Wig - Wag system that alternates from left side to right? Thanks Ray ---- David McNeill wrote: > Tested the new HID replacements tonight. The after pictures will be on the > http://www.planelights.com/ in a couple of days. The results were > extraordinary. I would not consider taxi at night with Vans halogen lights. > These lights are 3-4 times brighter and more focused than the standard > lights. I will show them if interested at OSH 31,1,2. I will be camping in > RV10 headquarters. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:47 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. From: John Jessen Is this a discussion about the use of the windshield as a structural component? I've not paid much attention to the windshield debate, but if structural, then Weldon, I would think. John Jessen 40328 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 3:40 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. Since I'm going the Silpruf method and it is also a silicone based product I have to consider those ratio's also but, I have the video from the Glasair folk on how to install using the Silpruf adhesive and there is a gap left around the window to be filled after paint with Silpruf...this should eliminate the contraction space problem. Given the different expansion and contraction rates for the plexi vs. fiberglass, it seems that no matter what you did the only time the glass would not be either under negative or positive compression would be at the exact temperature that occurred during installation. This would explain the cracks around the windows installed with Weldon since the Weldon creates an ungiving, solid bond between both materials. If you allow for expansion and the material used in the expansion/contraction joint is flexible I think this would present a better option than the Weldon. Filling the areas around the windows with flox/epoxy and covering with glass cloth gives brute strength to the gap hopefully preventing the cracks. I talked to two Glasair builders with 10 plus years on their aircraft with glass installed with Silpruf or similar silicone and they had no problems...This is kinda getting like primer wars in a way. If you get a chance to look at a Cirrus up close you will see their windows are installed with a defined gap around the plexi to cabin flange, the gap is filled with a material either like proseal or silicone...maybe anyone with experience on the Cirrus windows may be able to shed more light on that install. Till then...I'm sticking (literally) to Silpruf install. Rick Sked 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ackerman" Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:13:09 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: Re: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. On Jun 17, 2008, at 9:52 AM, John Gonzalez wrote: .... If I hadn't already painted the interior of my canopy I would have added fiberglass to the inside of the window flange to thicken it so that I could deepen the flange to allow a greqater bond thickness Also, at initial trimming I would have als left the flange one inch wide not 3/4" wide... We went through this and decided not to post 2 months ago, but maybe the following will be of value to somebody. When we considered Sikaflex, I did the differential thermal expansion (actually contraction is critical) calculations in the attached spread sheet, which assumes free movement of the plexi relative to the fiberglass. The results are appended as text below in case the attachment can't be posted. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:38 AM PST US From: "pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5 Any updates? Pascal -------------------------------------------------- From: "pascal" Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 1:15 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5 > Rob (or anyone in Oregon who knows) > Status on the composite blade testing completed yet? > -Performance on climb? > -cruise? > -smoothness compared to 2 and/or 3 blade props ? > -Any general thoughts? > > Thanks! > Pascal > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "pascal" > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:11 AM > To: > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:43 AM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. Good point, I have not heard the "are the windows structural?" point come u p as far as=C2-I can recall. Rick Sked 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jessen" Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 8:39:54 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RE: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. Is this a discussion about the use of the windshield as a structural compon ent?=C2- I've not paid much attention to the windshield debate, but if st ructural, then Weldon, I would think.=C2- John Jessen =C2-=C2- 40328 From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 3:40 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. Since I'm going the Silpruf method and it is also a=C2-silicone based pro duct I have to consider those ratio's also but,=C2- I have the video from the Glasair folk on how to install using the Silpruf adhesive and there is a gap left around the window to be filled after paint with Silpruf...this should eliminate the contraction space=C2-problem.=C2- Given the differ ent expansion and contraction rates for the plexi vs. fiberglass, it seems that no matter what you did the only time the glass would not be either und er negative or positive compression would be at the exact temperature that occurred during installation. This would explain the cracks around the wind ows installed with Weldon=C2-since the Weldon creates an ungiving, solid bond between both materials. If you allow for expansion and the material us ed in the expansion/contraction joint is flexible I think this would presen t a better option than the Weldon. Filling the areas around the windows=C2 -with flox/epoxy and covering with glass cloth gives brute strength to th e gap hopefully preventing the cracks. I talked to two Glasair builders wit h 10 plus years on their aircraft with glass installed with Silpruf or simi lar silicone=C2-and they had no problems...This is kinda getting like pri mer wars in a way. If you get a chance to look at a Cirrus up close you wil l see their windows are installed with a defined gap around the plexi to ca bin flange, the gap is filled with a material either like proseal or silico ne...maybe anyone with experience on the Cirrus windows may be able to shed more light on that install. Till then...I'm sticking (literally) to Silpru f install. Rick Sked 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ackerman" Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:13:09 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: Re: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. On =C2-Jun 17, 2008, at 9:52 AM, John Gonzalez wrote: .... If I hadn't al ready painted the interior of my canopy I would have added fiberglass to th e inside of the window flange to thicken it so that I could deepen the flan ge to allow a greqater bond thickness Also,=C2-at initial trimming I woul d have als left the flange one inch wide not 3/4" wide... We went through this and decided not to post 2 months ago, but maybe the fo llowing will be of value to somebody. When we considered Sikaflex, I did the differential thermal expansion (actu ally contraction is critical) calculations in the attached spread sheet, wh ich assumes free movement of the plexi relative to the fiberglass. The resu lts are appended as text below in case the attachment can't be posted. href ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matr onics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matroni ============= ==== ======================= == ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:04 AM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. I don't believe so. I believe the discussion is just for the side and door windows. Michael Do not archive From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:40 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. Is this a discussion about the use of the windshield as a structural compon ent? I've not paid much attention to the windshield debate, but if structu ral, then Weldon, I would think. John Jessen 40328 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 3:40 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. Since I'm going the Silpruf method and it is also a silicone based product I have to consider those ratio's also but, I have the video from the Glasa ir folk on how to install using the Silpruf adhesive and there is a gap lef t around the window to be filled after paint with Silpruf...this should eli minate the contraction space problem. Given the different expansion and co ntraction rates for the plexi vs. fiberglass, it seems that no matter what you did the only time the glass would not be either under negative or posit ive compression would be at the exact temperature that occurred during inst allation. This would explain the cracks around the windows installed with W eldon since the Weldon creates an ungiving, solid bond between both materia ls. If you allow for expansion and the material used in the expansion/contr action joint is flexible I think this would present a better option than th e Weldon. Filling the areas around the windows with flox/epoxy and covering with glass cloth gives brute strength to the gap hopefully preventing the cracks. I talked to two Glasair builders with 10 plus years on their aircra ft with glass installed with Silpruf or similar silicone and they had no pr oblems...This is kinda getting like primer wars in a way. If you get a chan ce to look at a Cirrus up close you will see their windows are installed wi th a defined gap around the plexi to cabin flange, the gap is filled with a material either like proseal or silicone...maybe anyone with experience on the Cirrus windows may be able to shed more light on that install. Till th en...I'm sticking (literally) to Silpruf install. Rick Sked 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ackerman" Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:13:09 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: Re: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. On Jun 17, 2008, at 9:52 AM, John Gonzalez wrote: .... If I hadn't already painted the interior of my canopy I would have add ed fiberglass to the inside of the window flange to thicken it so that I co uld deepen the flange to allow a greqater bond thickness Also, at initial t rimming I would have als left the flange one inch wide not 3/4" wide... We went through this and decided not to post 2 months ago, but maybe the fo llowing will be of value to somebody. When we considered Sikaflex, I did the differential thermal expansion (actu ally contraction is critical) calculations in the attached spread sheet, wh ich assumes free movement of the plexi relative to the fiberglass. The resu lts are appended as text below in case the attachment can't be posted. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:53 AM PST US From: John Gonzalez Subject: RE: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. I have been discussing the side and the door windows. John G. From: rvbuilder@sausen.netTo: rv10-list@matronics.comDate: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:15:33 -0500Subject: RE: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. I don=92t believe so. I believe the discussion is just for the side and do or windows. Michael Do not archive From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of John JessenSent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:40 A MTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: RV10-List: window adhesives revisi ted. Is this a discussion about the use of the windshield as a structural compon ent? I've not paid much attention to the windshield debate, but if structu ral, then Weldon, I would think. John Jessen 40328 From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick SkedSent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 3:40 PMT o: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: RV10-List: window adhesives revisite d. Since I'm going the Silpruf method and it is also a silicone based product I have to consider those ratio's also but, I have the video from the Glasa ir folk on how to install using the Silpruf adhesive and there is a gap lef t around the window to be filled after paint with Silpruf...this should eli minate the contraction space problem. Given the different expansion and co ntraction rates for the plexi vs. fiberglass, it seems that no matter what you did the only time the glass would not be either under negative or posit ive compression would be at the exact temperature that occurred during inst allation. This would explain the cracks around the windows installed with W eldon since the Weldon creates an ungiving, solid bond between both materia ls. If you allow for expansion and the material used in the expansion/contr action joint is flexible I think this would present a better option than th e Weldon. Filling the areas around the windows with flox/epoxy and covering with glass cloth gives brute strength to the gap hopefully preventing the cracks. I talked to two Glasair builders with 10 plus years on their aircra ft with glass installed with Silpruf or similar silicone and they had no pr oblems...This is kinda getting like primer wars in a way. If you get a chan ce to look at a Cirrus up close you will see their windows are installed wi th a defined gap around the plexi to cabin flange, the gap is filled with a material either like proseal or silicone...maybe anyone with experience on the Cirrus windows may be able to shed more light on that install. Till th en...I'm sticking (literally) to Silpruf install. Rick Sked 40185 ----- Original Message -----From: "John Ackerman" To : rv10-list@matronics.comSent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:13:09 AM (GMT-08 00) America/Los_AngelesSubject: Re: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. On Jun 17, 2008, at 9:52 AM, John Gonzalez wrote: .... If I hadn't already painted the interior of my canopy I would have add ed fiberglass to the inside of the window flange to thicken it so that I co uld deepen the flange to allow a greqater bond thickness Also, at initial t rimming I would have als left the flange one inch wide not 3/4" wide... We went through this and decided not to post 2 months ago, but maybe the fo llowing will be of value to somebody. When we considered Sikaflex, I did the differential thermal expansion (actu ally contraction is critical) calculations in the attached spread sheet, wh ich assumes free movement of the plexi relative to the fiberglass. The resu lts are appended as text below in case the attachment can't be posted. hre f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matr onics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronic s.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronic s.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:50 AM PST US From: "John Cumins" Subject: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Well I am almost finished with my inventory down to the small parts bags. I noticed the doublers and j-channel parts are all curved. I would think they would ne straight. They are used to be doublers for the HS front and rear spars and other spars. Has any one seen this in there kits besides me. All other parts look perfect and all in tact. Box arrived via Fedex Ground. Thanks John 40864 inventory mode hope to start building this weekend ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:23 AM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels The forming process tends to curve the parts, once you start to match drill them and cleco them they end up being straight...unless they are REALLY cu rved bad. I recall the spar doublers being this way for sure, I just used h and pressure to bring them back to flat. Rick Sked 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Cumins" Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:42:16 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Well I am almost finished with my inventory down to the small parts bags. =C2- I noticed the doublers and j-channel parts are all curved.=C2- I w ould think they would ne straight. They are used to be doublers for the HS front and rear spars and other spars.=C2- Has any one seen this in there kits besides me. All other parts look perfect and all in tact.=C2- Box arrived via Fedex G round. Thanks John 40864 inventory mode hope to start building this weekend ==== ======================= == ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:58:39 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: HS doublwers and j channels From: "egohr1" This is normal. Some bending of the thick punched parts is unavoidable due to the forces need to cut the thicker stock. Just bend it back over the edge of a bench prior to match drilling. -------- eric gohr EGOHR86@alumni.carnegiemellon.edu Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188619#188619 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:06 AM PST US From: "Ben Westfall" Subject: RE: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. Rick and all, I asked Van personally at a gathering of like minded plane nuts a while ago if the windows provided any structural strength. He said "oh a little, not much but a little". I then said "So did you engineers say - We should add a window there for strength". He sorta chuckled and said they did provide some strength but not much. One thing he did say was the windows were installed when they did the drop test but he couldn't remember if they blew out or cracked. I always wondered if anyone has dropped one on its back (hopefully in test). I assumed the results were good but I didn't ask. -Ben #40579 PDX _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:15 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. Good point, I have not heard the "are the windows structural?" point come up as far as I can recall. Rick Sked 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jessen" Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 8:39:54 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RE: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. Is this a discussion about the use of the windshield as a structural component? I've not paid much attention to the windshield debate, but if structural, then Weldon, I would think. John Jessen 40328 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 3:40 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. Since I'm going the Silpruf method and it is also a silicone based product I have to consider those ratio's also but, I have the video from the Glasair folk on how to install using the Silpruf adhesive and there is a gap left around the window to be filled after paint with Silpruf...this should eliminate the contraction space problem. Given the different expansion and contraction rates for the plexi vs. fiberglass, it seems that no matter what you did the only time the glass would not be either under negative or positive compression would be at the exact temperature that occurred during installation. This would explain the cracks around the windows installed with Weldon since the Weldon creates an ungiving, solid bond between both materials. If you allow for expansion and the material used in the expansion/contraction joint is flexible I think this would present a better option than the Weldon. Filling the areas around the windows with flox/epoxy and covering with glass cloth gives brute strength to the gap hopefully preventing the cracks. I talked to two Glasair builders with 10 plus years on their aircraft with glass installed with Silpruf or similar silicone and they had no problems...This is kinda getting like primer wars in a way. If you get a chance to look at a Cirrus up close you will see their windows are installed with a defined gap around the plexi to cabin flange, the gap is filled with a material either like proseal or silicone...maybe anyone with experience on the Cirrus windows may be able to shed more light on that install. Till then...I'm sticking (literally) to Silpruf install. Rick Sked 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ackerman" Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:13:09 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: Re: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. On Jun 17, 2008, at 9:52 AM, John Gonzalez wrote: .... If I hadn't already painted the interior of my canopy I would have added fiberglass to the inside of the window flange to thicken it so that I could deepen the flange to allow a greqater bond thickness Also, at initial trimming I would have als left the flange one inch wide not 3/4" wide... We went through this and decided not to post 2 months ago, but maybe the following will be of value to somebody. When we considered Sikaflex, I did the differential thermal expansion (actually contraction is critical) calculations in the attached spread sheet, which assumes free movement of the plexi relative to the fiberglass. The results are appended as text below in case the attachment can't be posted. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:55 AM PST US From: "pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels you'll be doing a lot of this.. look at the plans under the HS (or respective section) and see what they look like when you install them. Match the part number to the respective section. The only curving I recall is one that required me to do it. Congrats on the new kit! Pascal From: John Cumins Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:42 AM Subject: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Well I am almost finished with my inventory down to the small parts bags. I noticed the doublers and j-channel parts are all curved. I would think they would ne straight. They are used to be doublers for the HS front and rear spars and other spars. Has any one seen this in there kits besides me. All other parts look perfect and all in tact. Box arrived via Fedex Ground. Thanks John 40864 inventory mode hope to start building this weekend ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:35 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels From: John Jessen Normal. Check several of the web sites (jessen-rv10.com is one) to see how to get them straight. In short, for the thick HS doubler, put in a padded vise at several different positions and using hand forces, just push in opposite direction of the curve, working your way along the length of the doubler a little at a time until straight. No need to whack it with anything resembling a club. Not sure about the J-curves. I think those come back into alignment through cleco and riveting. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:42 AM Subject: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Well I am almost finished with my inventory down to the small parts bags. I noticed the doublers and j-channel parts are all curved. I would think they would ne straight. They are used to be doublers for the HS front and rear spars and other spars. Has any one seen this in there kits besides me. All other parts look perfect and all in tact. Box arrived via Fedex Ground. Thanks John 40864 inventory mode hope to start building this weekend ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:25 AM PST US From: "John Cumins" Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Thanks so much everyone. This saved me a phone call and looking stupid. I greatly appreciate all the great info and the sharing of ideas and concepts on this list. John 40864 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:12 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Normal. Check several of the web sites (jessen-rv10.com is one) to see how to get them straight. In short, for the thick HS doubler, put in a padded vise at several different positions and using hand forces, just push in opposite direction of the curve, working your way along the length of the doubler a little at a time until straight. No need to whack it with anything resembling a club. Not sure about the J-curves. I think those come back into alignment through cleco and riveting. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:42 AM Subject: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Well I am almost finished with my inventory down to the small parts bags. I noticed the doublers and j-channel parts are all curved. I would think they would ne straight. They are used to be doublers for the HS front and rear spars and other spars. Has any one seen this in there kits besides me. All other parts look perfect and all in tact. Box arrived via Fedex Ground. Thanks John 40864 inventory mode hope to start building this weekend href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:55 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Garmin Navigation??? From: "Robin Marks" Garmin requires that one of the certified Garmin G900X dealers visit the build to review the install and personally assist in calibrating the system. I can appreciate that Garmin wants to make sure these advanced systems are not cobbled into place and used without the benefit of a proper set up. We are fortunate because the panel builder AND the regional Garmin rep will be by to work on our panel. One funny side note is we received a call from the rep asking us for directions to the build. Ahhhhh you work for Garmin and you need... directions? Good thing I have a Dynon back up. Robin Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:16 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels From: John Jessen You will probably get a bunch of emails now, saying something like, "there is no such thing as looking stupid or asking a stupid question." Which is true, although some of us cannot possibly look anything other than stupid :-). Anyway, don't hesitate to ask any question. Look in the archives, of course, but do not hesitate to ask a question. We are all in this together, and learning is part of it. Having said all that, make sure that you do not settle for advice on this list. There are very smart folks here giving good advice, but don't get lulled into thinking that just because there is a group think or group consensus on a matter of interest that it is correct. Always check with the factory, and even then be careful about who is giving you the answer and how deep they are likely to take it with you. You are the builder and you need to therefore make the ultimate decision about what is true and what is just group think. Be critical with yourself, with your decision making, and you will be a very good builder. John J do not archive _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:28 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Thanks so much everyone. This saved me a phone call and looking stupid. I greatly appreciate all the great info and the sharing of ideas and concepts on this list. John 40864 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:12 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Normal. Check several of the web sites (jessen-rv10.com is one) to see how to get them straight. In short, for the thick HS doubler, put in a padded vise at several different positions and using hand forces, just push in opposite direction of the curve, working your way along the length of the doubler a little at a time until straight. No need to whack it with anything resembling a club. Not sure about the J-curves. I think those come back into alignment through cleco and riveting. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:42 AM Subject: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Well I am almost finished with my inventory down to the small parts bags. I noticed the doublers and j-channel parts are all curved. I would think they would ne straight. They are used to be doublers for the HS front and rear spars and other spars. Has any one seen this in there kits besides me. All other parts look perfect and all in tact. Box arrived via Fedex Ground. Thanks John 40864 inventory mode hope to start building this weekend href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:24:15 AM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Besides...When you call Van's there is a good chance you will feel stupid w hen you hang up regardless. so don't worry about that!!=C2- :) do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jessen" Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:49:25 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels You will probably get a bunch of emails now, saying something like, "there is no such thing as looking stupid or asking a stupid question."=C2- Whic h is true, although some of us cannot possibly look anything other than stu pid :-).=C2- Anyway, don't hesitate to ask any question.=C2- Look in th e archives, of course, but do not hesitate to ask a question.=C2- We are all in this together, and learning is part of it.=C2- Having said all that, make sure that you do not settle for advice on this l ist.=C2- There are very smart folks here giving good advice, but don't ge t lulled into thinking that just because there is a group think or group co nsensus on a matter of interest that it is correct.=C2- Always check with the factory, and even then be careful about who is giving you the answer a nd how deep they are likely to take it with you.=C2- You are the builder and you need to therefore make the ultimate decision ab out what is true and what is just group think.=C2- Be critical with yours elf, with your decision making,=C2-and you will be a very good builder. =C2- John J do not archive From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:28 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Thanks so much everyone.=C2- This saved me a phone call and looking stupi d. I greatly appreciate all the great info and the sharing of ideas and concep ts on this list. John 40864 From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:12 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Normal .=C2- Check several of the web sites (jessen-rv10.com is one) to s ee how to get them straight.=C2- In short, for the thick HS doubler, put in a padded vise at several different positions and using hand forces, just push in opposite direction of the curve, working your way along the length of the doubler a little at a time until straight.=C2- No need to whack i t with anything resembling a club.=C2- Not sure about the J-curves.=C2- I think those come back into alignment through cleco and riveting.=C2- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:42 AM Subject: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Well I am almost finished with my inventory down to the small parts bags. =C2- I noticed the doublers and j-channel parts are all curved.=C2- I w ould think they would ne straight. They are used to be doublers for the HS front and rear spars and other spars.=C2- Has any one seen this in there kits besides me. All other parts look perfect and all in tact.=C2- Box arrived via Fedex G round. Thanks John 40864 inventory mode hope to start building this weekend =C2- =C2- href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http:// www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com"> http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/c =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion =C2- href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www .matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">htt p://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">htt ================== ==== ======================= == ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:18 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels From: John Jessen Now, now, Rick! That put a smile on my face. JJ do not archive _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:21 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Besides...When you call Van's there is a good chance you will feel stupid when you hang up regardless. so don't worry about that!! :) do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jessen" Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:49:25 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels You will probably get a bunch of emails now, saying something like, "there is no such thing as looking stupid or asking a stupid question." Which is true, although some of us cannot possibly look anything other than stupid :-). Anyway, don't hesitate to ask any question. Look in the archives, of course, but do not hesitate to ask a question. We are all in this together, and learning is part of it. Having said all that, make sure that you do not settle for advice on this list. There are very smart folks here giving good advice, but don't get lulled into thinking that just because there is a group think or group consensus on a matter of interest that it is correct. Always check with the factory, and even then be careful about who is giving you the answer and how deep they are likely to take it with you. You are the builder and you need to therefore make the ultimate decision about what is true and what is just group think. Be critical with yourself, with your decision making, and you will be a very good builder. John J do not archive _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:28 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Thanks so much everyone. This saved me a phone call and looking stupid. I greatly appreciate all the great info and the sharing of ideas and concepts on this list. John 40864 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:12 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Normal. Check several of the web sites (jessen-rv10.com is one) to see how to get them straight. In short, for the thick HS doubler, put in a padded vise at several different positions and using hand forces, just push in opposite direction of the curve, working your way along the length of the doubler a little at a time until straight. No need to whack it with anything resembling a club. Not sure about the J-curves. I think those come back into alignment through cleco and riveting. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:42 AM Subject: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Well I am almost finished with my inventory down to the small parts bags. I noticed the doublers and j-channel parts are all curved. I would think they would ne straight. They are used to be doublers for the HS front and rear spars and other spars. Has any one seen this in there kits besides me. All other parts look perfect and all in tact. Box arrived via Fedex Ground. Thanks John 40864 inventory mode hope to start building this weekend href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:15 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: OSH camping status .... lots of space available Today I took a quick flight over to OSH and back to pick someone up, and got to see the grounds. Couldn't see a single camper yet.....so this years show must be a bust. (kidding of course) Anyway, the grounds look to be well kept and ready for the influx of people. They had only one runway open, as they were doing some good construction on all of the others. The new tower looks pretty good too. It was hard not to get pumped up for the show, seeing the place waiting for all of us to flock in. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:42 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: OSH camping status .... lots of space available You may be right about the attendance. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on early purchase of tickets. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:26 PM Subject: RV10-List: OSH camping status .... lots of space available Today I took a quick flight over to OSH and back to pick someone up, and got to see the grounds. Couldn't see a single camper yet.....so this years show must be a bust. (kidding of course) Anyway, the grounds look to be well kept and ready for the influx of people. They had only one runway open, as they were doing some good construction on all of the others. The new tower looks pretty good too. It was hard not to get pumped up for the show, seeing the place waiting for all of us to flock in. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:40 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: OSH camping status .... lots of space available From: "orchidman" dlm46007(at)cox.net wrote: > You may be right about the attendance. There seems to be a lot of emphasis > on early purchase of tickets. > > -- That must be why they extended the discount period [Laughing] -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB (N2GB registered) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188655#188655 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:12 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: HS doublers and j channels I'm at the same point you are, with same observations. Progress is slow when hangar reaches 110 by 10 am. Kelly 40866 John Cumins wrote: > > Thanks so much everyone. This saved me a phone call and looking stupid. > > > > I greatly appreciate all the great info and the sharing of ideas and > concepts on this list. > > > > > > > > John > > > > 40864 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Jessen > *Sent:* Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:12 AM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels > > > > Normal. Check several of the web sites (jessen-rv10.com is one) to > see how to get them straight. In short, for the thick HS doubler, put > in a padded vise at several different positions and using hand forces, > just push in opposite direction of the curve, working your way along > the length of the doubler a little at a time until straight. No need > to whack it with anything resembling a club. Not sure about the > J-curves. I think those come back into alignment through cleco and > riveting. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John > Cumins > *Sent:* Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:42 AM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels > > Well I am almost finished with my inventory down to the small > parts bags. I noticed the doublers and j-channel parts are all > curved. I would think they would ne straight. They are used to be > doublers for the HS front and rear spars and other spars. Has any > one seen this in there kits besides me. > > > > All other parts look perfect and all in tact. Box arrived via > Fedex Ground. > > > > Thanks > > > > John > > > > 40864 inventory mode hope to start building this weekend > > > > * * > > * * > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > * * > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:07 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: OSH camping status .... lots of space available From: John Jessen Gas prices and weather. Have you noticed the boomers walking across the Midwest on almost a daily basis? Holy flying cows! Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:41 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: OSH camping status .... lots of space available You may be right about the attendance. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on early purchase of tickets. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:26 PM Subject: RV10-List: OSH camping status .... lots of space available Today I took a quick flight over to OSH and back to pick someone up, and got to see the grounds. Couldn't see a single camper yet.....so this years show must be a bust. (kidding of course) Anyway, the grounds look to be well kept and ready for the influx of people. They had only one runway open, as they were doing some good construction on all of the others. The new tower looks pretty good too. It was hard not to get pumped up for the show, seeing the place waiting for all of us to flock in. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:26 PM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: OSH camping status .... lots of space available Ya, massive discount too. Is it the end of their fiscal year? :) Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:49 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: OSH camping status .... lots of space available dlm46007(at)cox.net wrote: > You may be right about the attendance. There seems to be a lot of emphasis > on early purchase of tickets. > > -- That must be why they extended the discount period [Laughing] -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB (N2GB registered) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188655#188655 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:16:09 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: OSH camping status .... lots of space available Well, I'll always be happy to go to the show, but personally I feel like I got bent over and drilled when they dropped the family membership thing and now I have to buy 2 'student' memberships for the 2 kids...and get crap that I don't need. Why couldn't they just leave it as it was. Oh, and I don't need to be reminded about my renewal beginning in what, maybe February, if I don't expire until OSH. Those are the things that bug me. But, I'll be going, and I'll be having a ball. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive orchidman wrote: > > > dlm46007(at)cox.net wrote: >> You may be right about the attendance. There seems to be a lot of emphasis >> on early purchase of tickets. >> >> -- > > That must be why they extended the discount period [Laughing] > > -------- > Gary Blankenbiller > RV10 - # 40674 > Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB > (N2GB registered) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188655#188655 > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:22 PM PST US From: "pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels In all seriousness, I have called Van's a few times at random hours (not their tech hours). Scott and Joe have been great. Scott knows his stuff and made a real effort to assist me with some issues, Joe usually recommended I put it on a "to do list" and follow-up later- like after everything is riveted?? that's a Gotcha! but they really are a good group of folks that provide guidance. Yes there is one that will make you look like a buffoon but as one gets more confidence those calls become less personal. For sure, as a new builder, take advantage of the support Van's provides when needed. Pascal From: Rick Sked Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:20 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Besides...When you call Van's there is a good chance you will feel stupid when you hang up regardless. so don't worry about that!! :) do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jessen" Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:49:25 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels You will probably get a bunch of emails now, saying something like, "there is no such thing as looking stupid or asking a stupid question." Which is true, although some of us cannot possibly look anything other than stupid :-). Anyway, don't hesitate to ask any question. Look in the archives, of course, but do not hesitate to ask a question. We are all in this together, and learning is part of it. Having said all that, make sure that you do not settle for advice on this list. There are very smart folks here giving good advice, but don't get lulled into thinking that just because there is a group think or group consensus on a matter of interest that it is correct. Always check with the factory, and even then be careful about who is giving you the answer and how deep they are likely to take it with you. You are the builder and you need to therefore make the ultimate decision about what is true and what is just group think. Be critical with yourself, with your decision making, and you will be a very good builder. John J do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:28 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Thanks so much everyone. This saved me a phone call and looking stupid. I greatly appreciate all the great info and the sharing of ideas and concepts on this list. John 40864 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:12 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Normal. Check several of the web sites (jessen-rv10.com is one) to see how to get them straight. In short, for the thick HS doubler, put in a padded vise at several different positions and using hand forces, just push in opposite direction of the curve, working your way along the length of the doubler a little at a time until straight. No need to whack it with anything resembling a club. Not sure about the J-curves. I think those come back into alignment through cleco and riveting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:42 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Well I am almost finished with my inventory down to the small parts bags. I noticed the doublers and j-channel parts are all curved. I would think they would ne straight. They are used to be doublers for the HS front and rear spars and other spars. Has any one seen this in there kits besides me. All other parts look perfect and all in tact. Box arrived via Fedex Ground. Thanks John 40864 inventory mode hope to start building this weekend href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://foru ms.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www .matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:41 PM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: SB 08-6-1 Inspection dmaib@mac.com wrote: > > Finished opening everything up this evening. Not flying yet, so, of course, no issues with the bulkhead. > We did manage to easily remove the trim without getting into the tailcone. Did it all from the outside. Should get the doublers installed tomorrow and plan to have it all back together by Saturday. Drilling out 52 (?) rivets was the worst part, so far. I elongated a couple of holes a bit, so might have to install oversize rivets. > Not an answer for a purist, but depending on how bad it's off, a regular rivet will do just fine. Unless, of course you have a lot of oversize rivets on hand ...... ;-) > Would there be any problem installing a bolt or screw and lock nut in an oversize hole? > No problem .....just added weight. Linn > -------- > David Maib > RV-10 #40559 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:51 PM PST US From: RobHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell prop and IO540D4A5 I have been flying the two blade composite for around 6 weeks on my RV-4. Everyone that has flown in the RV-4 comments on how smooth the new prop is. The 12 pound weight reduction on the nose also made the plane fly noticeably better. It is hard to tell if there is any difference in speed. Rob Hickman **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:38 PM PST US From: "John Cumins" Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublers and j channels Kelly Yes it is, been hot here to but cooling off in the evenings. We are down to inv. the many bags of small parts and needs to build shelf above garage door foe all the flat skins. Have fn and try and stay cool. John G. Cumins _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:50 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: HS doublers and j channels I'm at the same point you are, with same observations. Progress is slow when hangar reaches 110 by 10 am. Kelly 40866 John Cumins wrote: Thanks so much everyone. This saved me a phone call and looking stupid. I greatly appreciate all the great info and the sharing of ideas and concepts on this list. John 40864 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:12 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Normal. Check several of the web sites (jessen-rv10.com is one) to see how to get them straight. In short, for the thick HS doubler, put in a padded vise at several different positions and using hand forces, just push in opposite direction of the curve, working your way along the length of the doubler a little at a time until straight. No need to whack it with anything resembling a club. Not sure about the J-curves. I think those come back into alignment through cleco and riveting. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:42 AM Subject: RV10-List: HS doublwers and j channels Well I am almost finished with my inventory down to the small parts bags. I noticed the doublers and j-channel parts are all curved. I would think they would ne straight. They are used to be doublers for the HS front and rear spars and other spars. Has any one seen this in there kits besides me. All other parts look perfect and all in tact. Box arrived via Fedex Ground. Thanks John 40864 inventory mode hope to start building this weekend href= "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?RV10-List href= "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href= "http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:51 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: SB 08-6-1 Inspection From: "2eyedocs" <2eyedocs@gmail.com> I am sure I will show my vast knowledge of aluminum fatigue (or lack there of), but it seems if you cover with a plate, you would never see a future crack that may develop underneath. I understand the plate is to strengthen the part to keep it from cracking. Is there a chance of a crack forming with the plate riveted on? Thanks, Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188685#188685 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:01 PM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: OSH camping status .... lots of space available Not too bad of a discount, $2 a day times 5 days = enough to get that first bottle of water for free!! Rick Sked ----- Original Message ----- From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:07:33 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: OSH camping status .... lots of space available Ya, massive discount too. Is it the end of their fiscal year? :) Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:49 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: OSH camping status .... lots of space available dlm46007(at)cox.net wrote: > You may be right about the attendance. There seems to be a lot of emphasis > on early purchase of tickets. > > -- That must be why they extended the discount period [Laughing] -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB (N2GB registered) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188655#188655 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:42 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: OSH camping status .... lots of space available From: "orchidman" ricksked(at)embarqmail.co wrote: > Not too bad of a discount, $2 a day times 5 days = enough to get that first bottle of water for free!! > > Rick Sked > --- I didn't spend a whole lot of time reading it but if I read it correctly, EAA is not offering the discount. It is Jeppesen that is paying for the discount. If that is in fact true, I will have to go by and thank them. They already get some of my money and as soon as I get the -10 in the air, they will be getting a bunch more. :? -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB (N2GB registered) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188706#188706 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:46 PM PST US From: GenGrumpy@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: SB 08-6-1 Inspection Always a chance another crack will develop.....so.......future ACIs you look at the other side (non-doubler side) as well as the doubler you install. Hopefully, the engineering staff has done their homework and the doublers will eliminate future crack possiblities.... grumpy N184JM do not archive In a message dated 6/19/2008 6:09:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 2eyedocs@gmail.com writes: --> RV10-List message posted by: "2eyedocs" <2eyedocs@gmail.com> I am sure I will show my vast knowledge of aluminum fatigue (or lack there of), but it seems if you cover with a plate, you would never see a future crack that may develop underneath. I understand the plate is to strengthen the part to keep it from cracking. Is there a chance of a crack forming with the plate riveted on? Thanks, Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188685#188685 **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:08 PM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: SB 08-6-1 Inspection I looked at the SB pictures, and I looked at my empcone ..... and for the life of me, I cannot figure out what's moving enough to cause the cracks. There must be a lot of flexing going on back there! I have no doubt in my mind that the thickness of the doubler will prevent any cracks from starting ...... or will prevent them from continuing if they're already there. If you're still worried about the fix ...... bed the doubler in proseal and then rivet before it sets. Linn ..... 'tis a puzzlement. GenGrumpy@aol.com wrote: > Always a chance another crack will develop.....so.......future ACIs > you look at the other side (non-doubler side) as well as the doubler > you install. > > Hopefully, the engineering staff has done their homework and the > doublers will eliminate future crack possiblities.... > > grumpy > N184JM > > do not archive > > In a message dated 6/19/2008 6:09:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > 2eyedocs@gmail.com writes: > > > I am sure I will show my vast knowledge of aluminum fatigue (or > lack there of), but it seems if you cover with a plate, you would > never see a future crack that may develop underneath. I > understand the plate is to strengthen the part to keep it from > cracking. Is there a chance of a crack forming with the plate > riveted on? > Thanks, Mark > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188685#188685 > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used > cars . > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:55 PM PST US From: GenGrumpy@AOL.COM Subject: Re: RV10-List: HID lights The answer from the manufacturer is yes. You need to warm up the lights for 1 minute in steady mode before going to wig wag function. I have mine, but not yet installed due to this pesky SB staring me in the face. grumpy do not archive In a message dated 6/19/2008 7:27:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time, rdoerr@kc.rr.com writes: --> RV10-List message posted by: Can these HID lights be used with a Wig - Wag system that alternates from left side to right? Thanks Ray ---- David McNeill wrote: > Tested the new HID replacements tonight. The after pictures will be on the > http://www.planelights.com/ in a couple of days. The results were > extraordinary. I would not consider taxi at night with Vans halogen lights. > These lights are 3-4 times brighter and more focused than the standard > lights. I will show them if interested at OSH 31,1,2. I will be camping in > RV10 headquarters. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:57 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. From: "John Cox" They are no more structural that the steel tube installed from the glareshield to the canopy. John Cox. From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:43 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. I have been discussing the side and the door windows. John G. ________________________________ From: rvbuilder@sausen.net Subject: RE: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. I don't believe so. I believe the discussion is just for the side and door windows. Michael Do not archive From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:40 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. Is this a discussion about the use of the windshield as a structural component? I've not paid much attention to the windshield debate, but if structural, then Weldon, I would think. John Jessen 40328 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 3:40 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. Since I'm going the Silpruf method and it is also a silicone based product I have to consider those ratio's also but, I have the video from the Glasair folk on how to install using the Silpruf adhesive and there is a gap left around the window to be filled after paint with Silpruf...this should eliminate the contraction space problem. Given the different expansion and contraction rates for the plexi vs. fiberglass, it seems that no matter what you did the only time the glass would not be either under negative or positive compression would be at the exact temperature that occurred during installation. This would explain the cracks around the windows installed with Weldon since the Weldon creates an ungiving, solid bond between both materials. If you allow for expansion and the material used in the expansion/contraction joint is flexible I think this would present a better option than the Weldon. Filling the areas around the windows with flox/epoxy and covering with glass cloth gives brute strength to the gap hopefully preventing the cracks. I talked to two Glasair builders with 10 plus years on their aircraft with glass installed with Silpruf or similar silicone and they had no problems...This is kinda getting like primer wars in a way. If you get a chance to look at a Cirrus up close you will see their windows are installed with a defined gap around the plexi to cabin flange, the gap is filled with a material either like proseal or silicone...maybe anyone with experience on the Cirrus windows may be able to shed more light on that install. Till then...I'm sticking (literally) to Silpruf install. Rick Sked 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ackerman" To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:13:09 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: Re: RV10-List: window adhesives revisited. On Jun 17, 2008, at 9:52 AM, John Gonzalez wrote: .... If I hadn't already painted the interior of my canopy I would have added fiberglass to the inside of the window flange to thicken it so that I could deepen the flange to allow a greqater bond thickness Also, at initial trimming I would have als left the flange one inch wide not 3/4" wide... We went through this and decided not to post 2 months ago, but maybe the following will be of value to somebody. When we considered Sikaflex, I did the differential thermal expansion (actually contraction is critical) calculations in the attached spread sheet, which assumes free movement of the plexi relative to the fiberglass. The results are appended as text below in case the attachment can't be posted. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s .com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:28 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: SB 08-6-1 Inspection From: "John Cox" A proper inspection views both sides. In this case the opposite of the doubler will reveal any migration down the road. I am always amazed to see builder's with cracks that do not document their length during a Conditional. At the next Conditional they go 'Yup, still there'. Then we measure it to create a baseline and find it has been slowly migrating over the life of the airframe. Stress relief and tortional transfer into the doubler are important parts of the correction. No one is commenting on the appearance that the CNC relief groove for the flanges (two of them) seem to be larger than offered on the virgin parts. This could have been a manufacturing crack which was treated by the builder (the factory) with deburring and grinding prior to original assemblage. A crack is a crack is a crack. It is not going away. It is coming back to play another day. "Metal has memory". Anyone want to play on a review of the pictures? John Cox -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 2eyedocs Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 4:05 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: SB 08-6-1 Inspection I am sure I will show my vast knowledge of aluminum fatigue (or lack there of), but it seems if you cover with a plate, you would never see a future crack that may develop underneath. I understand the plate is to strengthen the part to keep it from cracking. Is there a chance of a crack forming with the plate riveted on? Thanks, Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188685#188685 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:45 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RV10-List: HIDs before and after pictures of my 10 are on http://www.planelights.com/index.php?id=661 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.