Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:20 AM - Re: Aileron Bellcrank Bushing Questions (johngoodman)
2. 05:31 AM - Re: Aileron Bellcrank Bushing Questions (orchidman)
3. 07:07 AM - Re: Trim Tab Rigging and SB Write-Up Posted (gary)
4. 07:11 AM - Re: Aileron Bellcrank Bushing Questions (Albert Gardner)
5. 07:20 AM - Ramp to belly distance? (orchidman)
6. 08:04 AM - Re: Ramp to belly distance? ()
7. 08:58 AM - Re: Re: Aileron Bellcrank Bushing Questions (Les Kearney)
8. 09:24 AM - Re: Ramp to belly distance? (Tim Olson)
9. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: Aileron Bellcrank Bushing Questions (Tim Olson)
10. 09:42 AM - Re: Aileron Bellcrank Bushing Questions (Chuck Weyant)
11. 09:58 AM - RV-10 Group Camping FAQs (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
12. 09:59 AM - Re: 2008 OSH RV-10 HQ Camping (bcondrey)
13. 10:03 AM - Re: Ramp to belly distance? (orchidman)
14. 10:04 AM - Hysol 9360 Test and Window Install (RobHickman@aol.com)
15. 10:28 AM - Re: Hysol 9360 Test and Window Install (Tim Olson)
16. 12:38 PM - How to build the Windshield faring (RobHickman@AOL.COM)
17. 01:47 PM - Re: How to build the Windshield faring (Les Kearney)
18. 03:28 PM - Re: How to build the Windshield faring (Jim Berry)
19. 06:40 PM - Re: SB work (johngoodman)
20. 06:58 PM - Re: Hysol 9360 Test and Window Install (John Cox)
21. 07:54 PM - Re: Re: SB work (LES KEARNEY)
22. 08:14 PM - Re: Hysol 9360 Test and Window Install (Chris)
23. 08:24 PM - Fuel Sender Question (Robin Marks)
24. 08:32 PM - Rudder pedal mounting (Dave Leikam)
25. 08:34 PM - alas - window install (Robert Wright)
26. 08:40 PM - Re: Re: SB work (pascal)
27. 09:41 PM - Re: Fuel Sender Question (Tim Olson)
28. 09:41 PM - Re: Rudder pedal mounting (Tim Olson)
29. 09:44 PM - Re: Re: SB work (Tim Olson)
30. 10:14 PM - Lower Cowling Cooling Vents (partner14)
31. 11:12 PM - Re: Rudder pedal mounting (Dave Saylor)
32. 11:12 PM - Re: Hysol 9360 Test and Window Install (Dave Saylor)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Bellcrank Bushing Questions |
Les,
Check out this site:
http://www.panamericantool.com/
more reamers than you can imagine.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190519#190519
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Bellcrank Bushing Questions |
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> Do you use the reamers in your air drill, or in a slower speed
> cordless drill? Any thoughts as to whether it matters?
>
For the skins, I used both an air drill and a cordless drill. As others have said
it doesn't matter that much. Thicker material needs the slower speeds to
get a good finish inside and to preserve the bit.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB
(N2GB registered)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190525#190525
Message 3
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| Subject: | Trim Tab Rigging and SB Write-Up Posted |
This is in the department of SWAG. It looks to me like someone pushed down
on the horizontal stab and bent things doing so and it was flown like that
for a while. But as I pointed out in my comments this is all conjecture.
Gary
40274 Flying
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Trim Tab Rigging and SB Write-Up Posted
Oh I totally agree that it isn't likely to be a cause.
And I agree fully regarding the fact that other planes have
a single tab too, which is why I mentioned it. I don't
think it's likely to cause many builders a problem. The thing
is though, having one tab going one way and the other going
opposite isn't at all what a person would want, so I wanted
to point out how just doing things "normally" may result in
a slight amount of this situation. I know I had it, and
I didn't see the twisting and the asymmetry. I can only
think though that the further one's tabs are off, very
quickly the forces could get higher and higher. So, it's
just plain good sense to make sure everything is rigged right.
I'm not sure what caused the cracks on that plane, but I can
easily see it being a combination of: Some big turbulence
hits, lots and lots of tail shuddering stalls, and potentially
maybe not deburring well around that notch. Hard to blame
the deburring much though, because there is definite deformation
of that bulkhead. Oh well, it happened....I'm just glad
it's stronger now.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
gary wrote:
>
> I know that I will get some flames on this, but I am not convinced that
the
> twisting caused by trim tab rigging is the issue. All of the other RV
> series have a single trim tab on one elevator only as do many other
general
> aviation aircraft. Yes this does cause twisting, but not to the extent
that
> it should be worrisome. I suspect that there are other design issues
going
> on in the 10 tail and that the trim tab torque only made it show up as a
> fatigue crack earlier than it normally would have if both tabs moved in
> parallel.
>
> Steady even torque is not as rough on structures as is osculating torque
> such as comes from turbulence. Even the lowly beer can takes a lot of
> torque but not so much bending back and forth. Additionally the bulkhead
in
> Van's pix looked bent to me like it was over stressed.
>
> All I am saying is that we don't have enough info or engineering data to
> make a definitive diagnosis. Many possible theories but no proof.
>
> Gary
> 40274 Flying
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 2:00 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Trim Tab Rigging and SB Write-Up Posted
>
>
> I finally am on the road and had my wife drive so I could finish a write
> up I've had planned to show the issues with Trim Tab rigging and then a
> brief summary about the Service Bulletin. I may revise it later a bit,
> but here is what I have. Also, none of the other many links that I
> updated are ready yet, so the only way to this page right now is by
> this link:
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20080622/
>
> Feel free to discuss. I'd like to thank Bill DeRouchey for his input in
> the "twisted tail" arena. I don't know that it will be a major issue
> for most people, but it definitely is worth reading the link and
> checking it on your own plane. If you haven't yet done the SB, just
> wait until it's all assembled.
>
> Enjoy!
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Aileron Bellcrank Bushing Questions |
To square up the ends of bushings a lathe is not required. Chuck the bushing
in your drill press and lower it onto a file clamped on the table. You will
have to remove it several times to check the length but the ends will be
square using this method.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
Oshkosh '08 or bust!
Message 5
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| Subject: | Ramp to belly distance? |
Can someone publish the ramp (garage floor) to belly distance with the gear on?
It would be really good to get the distance both with the engine on and before
it is installed.
I am in the garage with the canopy top fully trimmed but not bolted down. Standing
back and looking at the project this weekend I started looking at the distance
from the top to my garage door opener which also translates to what I will
need for clearance rolling out of the door.
I am trying to get as much of the wiring complete before I install the gear and
dont want to get surprised and stuck.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB
(N2GB registered)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190550#190550
Message 6
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| Subject: | Ramp to belly distance? |
Gary:
Mine measures 28.5" from the garage floor to the belly, at the firewall. That
is with an Eggenfellner engine installed. My airplane rolls out of a standard
7' garage door with several inches to spare. No tail feathers of course.
Steve Mills N750SM (reserved)
RV-10 40486 Slow-build Eggenfellner E-6TI
Naperville, Illinois
Finishing kit, engine install
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 9:18 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Ramp to belly distance?
Can someone publish the ramp (garage floor) to belly distance with the gear on?
It would be really good to get the distance both with the engine on and before
it is installed.
I am in the garage with the canopy top fully trimmed but not bolted down. Standing
back and looking at the project this weekend I started looking at the distance
from the top to my garage door opener which also translates to what I will
need for clearance rolling out of the door.
I am trying to get as much of the wiring complete before I install the gear and
dont want to get surprised and stuck.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB
(N2GB registered)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190550#190550
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Bellcrank Bushing Questions |
Gary
I think I'll put the bellcranks on hold for a few days and order a reamer
from Avery. I can't seem to find one locally.
Given that I am now on my QB wings and have finished the fuse to the "boat
stage" are there any other sizes of reamer that I should order at the same
time.
Thanks
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
Sent: June-29-08 7:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Aileron Bellcrank Bushing Questions
In my opinion, reamers are an essential tool. I have all but worn out a #40
and a #30 reamer. All my match drilling was done with one of these.
To find out a little more about reamers, go to page 34 of the avery tools
catalog.
http://www.averytools.com/catalog/2008%20catalog%20B.qxd.pdf
then scrole down to page 34. There is some good information about reamers
and how to use them. Since our skins are so thin, I never used any
lubricant. If I were reaming anything thicker then the diameter of the
reamer, then I sure would use a lubricant.
Off the top of my head, I don't remember what I used for the bellcrank but
since I don't have a 1/4" reamer, it must have been a sharp 1/4 drill.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB
(N2GB registered)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190485#190485
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Ramp to belly distance? |
Gary,
From waaaaaay back before when I was in the same situation, I put
this together:
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/workarea.html
Tim
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
orchidman wrote:
>
> Can someone publish the ramp (garage floor) to belly distance with the gear on?
It would be really good to get the distance both with the engine on and before
it is installed.
> I am in the garage with the canopy top fully trimmed but not bolted down. Standing
back and looking at the project this weekend I started looking at the distance
from the top to my garage door opener which also translates to what I
will need for clearance rolling out of the door.
> I am trying to get as much of the wiring complete before I install the gear and
dont want to get surprised and stuck.
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB
> (N2GB registered)
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Bellcrank Bushing Questions |
The one for the gear leg holes if you haven't done that step
yet. That's a definite one to get.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Gary
>
> I think I'll put the bellcranks on hold for a few days and order a reamer
> from Avery. I can't seem to find one locally.
>
> Given that I am now on my QB wings and have finished the fuse to the "boat
> stage" are there any other sizes of reamer that I should order at the same
> time.
>
> Thanks
>
> Les
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
> Sent: June-29-08 7:56 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Aileron Bellcrank Bushing Questions
>
>
> In my opinion, reamers are an essential tool. I have all but worn out a #40
> and a #30 reamer. All my match drilling was done with one of these.
> To find out a little more about reamers, go to page 34 of the avery tools
> catalog.
> http://www.averytools.com/catalog/2008%20catalog%20B.qxd.pdf
> then scrole down to page 34. There is some good information about reamers
> and how to use them. Since our skins are so thin, I never used any
> lubricant. If I were reaming anything thicker then the diameter of the
> reamer, then I sure would use a lubricant.
>
> Off the top of my head, I don't remember what I used for the bellcrank but
> since I don't have a 1/4" reamer, it must have been a sharp 1/4 drill.
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB
> (N2GB registered)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190485#190485
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Bellcrank Bushing Questions |
Or a piece of 150 grit glued to a short piece of 2x4" wood.
Buy the appropriate size reamer. Clamp the bushing in a vice with soft
pine or piece of rubber between the vice and the bushing --- just enough
to keep it from spinning and hand ream it using a hand drill. Make sure
you stay plumb with the work and it'll come out just fine.
Chuck
To square up the ends of bushings a lathe is not required. Chuck the
bushing in your drill press and lower it onto a file clamped on the
table. You will have to remove it several times to check the length but
the ends will be square using this method.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
Oshkosh '08 or bust!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG.
6/4/2008 4:40 PM
Message 11
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| Subject: | RV-10 Group Camping FAQs |
Questions are starting to roll in now that AirVenture is getting close.
I've compiled a lot of the common questions and answers from last year
and put them below. I'm also going to bump the RV-10 group camping
thread for ease in finding it since it contains links to the areas on
Tim's website. If you've got any other questions feel free to either
post them to the group or contact me offline.
Bob
N442PM (flying)
--------------------
What do I do when I get to OSH?
When you get close to OSH you should call Tim, Gary or I to meet you at
the Camp Scholler registration entrance. We'll already have registered
you and will have your car pass.
I'm flying in, what do I do when I get there?
There are EAA people that shuttle people from the plane parking area to
Camp Scholler in the days leading up to the opening. Give us a call
when you get in and we'll let you know specifically where we are at. If
you're in the vintage parking area it's likely that a few of us can come
over and help you carry stuff.
What exactly does it mean when you stake out a site?
Camp Scholler starts out as a big, empty field. When you register you
receive a vehicle pass and also a card for your site. At that point you
can "rope off" your site and display the card. If a site is roped off
and there is no card displayed the stakes/ropes will be removed by
security. Yes, they are actually driving around looking for this! What
Tim and I are doing is getting there early (when prime locations are
available), register the group, stake out/rope off sites, and attach the
registration cards to each site.
I'm arriving late, what about my site?
Your site will be registered and marked off at the same time as part of
the big batch. When you get in, regardless of when that is, your site
will be there with your name on it!
I'm leaving before the end of the show, can I get a refund for the
unused days?
Yes, you can get a refund. You simply turn in the site registration
card and they'll give you a check on the spot. Regardless of how you
pay us for your site we will pay using a check which will allow for a
cash refund.
I'm only staying for the first few days of the show, can somebody else
takeover my site when I leave?
Yes, Tim has an area on his website where it shows the "on site"
information for each person that has registered. One of the purposes of
that is to facilitate coordination with others. Any financial
arrangements are completely up to the individuals.
Why so early for staking sites?
What's the difference between having you get my site and doing it
myself?
We are getting there early to get a group of sites together that is
reasonably close to the entrance, showers, camp store, etc. We aren't
doing anything special except for that.
Is there a place to fill the water tank in my motorhome? What about
dumping the tanks? There is a place at the southwest corner of Camp
Scholler where you can fill water tanks and/or dump tanks. Usually
people fill the water tank on the way in and dump tanks on the way out.
There is also a septic service that will (for a small fee) drive over to
your site and dump your tanks. The only options for refilling the water
tank are to drive over to the area mentioned above or use containers. I
have done this in the past and will have a couple of 6 gal containers
that you are welcome to borrow. Water is available near the shower
building for this purpose.
Are the sites shaded? It is highly unlikely that you'll have a site
with shade. In the past couple of years we've been lucky enough to be
on the west side of a line of trees but they don't do anything for you
in the afternoon!
What is the size of the sites in Camp Scholler? Nominal size is 20x30
feet however some are slightly smaller, some are slightly larger and
some have the same number of square feet but are dimensionally a little
different. This is the reason that we are requesting info about what
sort of camping accommodations you'll have.
How can I recharge my cell phone?
Generally in the afternoon and evening people with generators will fire
them up to recharge batteries, run air conditioning etc. Last year we
had a couple of power strips and people charged up. Another option
would be to use the power outlets on the exterior of the shower
building.
What bathroom and shower facilities are there?
There are buildings with numerous shower stalls available 24 hours.
Bathrooms are exterior fiberglass porta-potties that are dumped and
cleaned daily.
Is there any sort of Internet access for checking email?
Near the shower building is a small building with a few internet
connected computers available for use free of charge. They are open
during the day and usually there isn't any wait. There is also supposed
to be WiFi available at Camp Scholler this year!
Is there a place within walking distance for food, ice and other
supplies?
There is a camp store with a large variety of food and camping
essentials.
What about getting around - is there any transportation besides walking?
There are shuttle buses that run from the Theater in the Woods area and
will take you all the way out to the warbirds at the north end of the
field with numerous stops in between. There is also a bus to Outlet
Mall that departs from main entrance.
I already have lodging but would like to stop by, when is a good time?
Just about any afternoon or evening there will be a few people around!
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 2008 OSH RV-10 HQ Camping |
bump for ease of reference.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190575#190575
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Ramp to belly distance? |
Tim Olson wrote:
> Gary,
>
> From waaaaaay back before when I was in the same situation, I put
> this together:
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/workarea.html
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Thanks all. Tim, I went through your site but couldn't find that page. Guess
my mind went with the hair on the top of my head. [Wink]
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB
(N2GB registered)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190577#190577
Message 14
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| Subject: | Hysol 9360 Test and Window Install |
After last week=99s window install fiasco I talked to Lancair about t
heir
window install and decided to perform a glue test. Lancair has been using
Hysol
for =9Cover 15 years without any problems=9D and believes that
the Hysol is the
only way to go. When I talked to the Hysol support they were not real
positive about using it to bond acrylic windows and suggested that I do a t
est.
For the test I bonded two pieces of the left over front window two each
other, they were sanded with 80 grit and clamped together and left to hard
en in
the 100F sun. After 36 hours the parts bonded with Hysol easily pulled
apart by hand, the parts bonded with three year old expired Weldon-10 could
not
be separated, even with a screw driver and hammer. The Hysol data does
shows:
Curing - This adhesive may be cured for 5 to 7 days at >77=C2=B0F/25=C2=B0C
to achieve
normal performance. Accelerated cures up to 200=C2=B0F/93=C2=B0C (for small
masses
only) may be used as an alternative. For example, 1 hour at 180=C2=B0F/82
=C2=B0C will give
complete cure.
It has been very hot over the weekend and I find it hard to believe that it
would have got a lot stronger in 5 days.
Why does it work for Lancair?
I made a trip to a local Lancair ES builder that just installed his windows
to have a look. The Lancair windows are installed from the inside, have a
1 =C2=BD
=9D wide joint for bonding and after bonding you layup two to three l
ayers of
fiberglass between the windows and fuselage. It looks to me like the
windows would not come out even if you did not use any Hysol
So after all this I installed the windows using Weldon-10 and actually foun
d
that it was not that bad to work with and I don=99t think I have any
crazing
in the acrylic.
Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050
000000007)
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Hysol 9360 Test and Window Install |
Awesome that you got everything installed and like how it turned
out. As for the crazing, I'm not sure WHY people are having
crazing, but my guess is it's either too localized and too
strong of clamping pressure, or whatever other chemicals they
are using to clean and prep the area for bonding. Almost all
solvents are no-no's on the acrylic, and my guess is that
some people are using acetone, windex, or any number of other
thinners or products to degrease....and that's where the
problem starts.
Your info regarding the width of the bond area on the Lancairs
and the use of Hysol also goes hand in hand with info others
have provided, that there just isn't enough of a lip for
bonding to use some of the other products unless they have
similar bond strength.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
RobHickman@aol.com wrote:
> After last weeks window install fiasco I talked to Lancair about their
> window install and decided to perform a glue test. Lancair has been
> using Hysol for over 15 years without any problems and believes that
> the Hysol is the only way to go. When I talked to the Hysol support
> they were not real positive about using it to bond acrylic windows and
> suggested that I do a test.
>
>
>
> For the test I bonded two pieces of the left over front window two each
> other, they were sanded with 80 grit and clamped together and left to
> harden in the 100F sun. After 36 hours the parts bonded with Hysol
> easily pulled apart by hand, the parts bonded with three year old
> expired Weldon-10 could not be separated, even with a screw driver and
> hammer. The Hysol data does shows:
>
>
>
> Curing - This adhesive may be cured for 5 to 7 days at >77F/25C to
> achieve normal performance. Accelerated cures up to 200F/93C (for
> small masses only) may be used as an alternative. For example, 1 hour at
> 180F/82C will give complete cure.
>
>
>
> It has been very hot over the weekend and I find it hard to believe that
> it would have got a lot stronger in 5 days.
>
>
>
>
>
> Why does it work for Lancair?
>
>
>
> I made a trip to a local Lancair ES builder that just installed his
> windows to have a look. The Lancair windows are installed from the
> inside, have a 1 wide joint for bonding and after bonding you layup
> two to three layers of fiberglass between the windows and fuselage. It
> looks to me like the windows would not come out even if you did not use
> any Hysol
>
>
>
> So after all this I installed the windows using Weldon-10 and actually
> found that it was not that bad to work with and I dont think I have any
> crazing in the acrylic.
>
>
>
> Rob Hickman
>
> N402RH RV-10
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used
> cars <http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007>.
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 16
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| Subject: | How to build the Windshield faring |
One advantage of having the windows not bond the first time is I got to
remake the front fairing with the help of my neighbor Jim Cullison that bui
lt an
award winning Lancair. The made the first fairing using Van=99s pla
ns, laid
up in place and I thought it looked really good after hours and hours of
sanding.
Jim suggested we do it like Lancair; wet out the layers on the table and
then transfer the 5 foot floppy mess to the windshield. After my experience
with the Lancair window epoxy I was less than excited about using another
Lancair inspired technique. After much discussion with my fellow RV-bui
lder=99s
that had stopped by to check my progress we all decided it would never work
.
My wife Jennifer then informed the skeptical group that Jim had built a
whole airplane out of fiberglass and he just might know what he is doing.
To my surprise =9CThe Cullison Technique=9D worked fantastic, th
e faring looks
great and took very little sanding.
Step 1
Use Blue masking tape to tape mark where the faring will be on the window
and the top of the fuselage. The tape should be located where the faring wi
ll
be. You can keep moving the tape until everyone agrees it looks good.
Step 2
Use 20 mil black pipe wrapping tape from Home Depot to layout the edge of
the faring next to the masking tape. This black tape is really thick
electrical tape, is very rugged and really works well.
Step 3
Remove the masking tape and aggressively sand the windshield and aluminum
fuselage where the faring will bond to. The thick black tape really protect
s
the window and fuselage faring edge. After sanding clean the aluminum wit
h
Acetone (do not get on window) and blow off the window with air.
Step 4
Build the bottom window fillet out of Epoxy and micro balloons; this should
fill the joint between the windshield and fuselage making a smooth radius.
We used slow cure hardener so that we would have lots of time.
Step 5
Lay a piece of thin clear plastic on a 6 foot table that is about 1 foot
wide. Cut your first 3 layers of increasing widths of fiberglass cloth usi
ng a
long ruler and a rotary cutter (we used 9 0z bias cloth, the woven fibers
run diagonal so that it will curve ). The rotary cutter is a handle with a
sharp wheel that makes the long cuts very easy (I found mine in Jennifer
=99s
sewing supplies). Lay the strips of fiberglass in a stack with the widest
on the
bottom on the plastic. Pour a line of epoxy down the glass cloth and let i
t
soak through the layers, you should add more resin to places that are not
wetting out. Once the stack of cloth is wet out you should fold the plasti
c
over the top of the stack and then using a hard roller you should roll the
extra resin out of the stack.
Step 6
Using your long metal ruler as a guide and the rotary cutter trim both lon
g
edges of the fabric and plastic sandwich. You should only be trimming the
edge of the bottom glass layer and the extra plastic and resin.
Step 7
Remove the top plastic layer from the stack and then using two people flip
over the stack and carefully place it in the middle of the
windshield-fuselage faring. Once we had it located fairly close we remove
d the top plastic
layer and used a brush to push it in place and remove any bubbles.
Step 8
Repeat steps 5,6,7 for the next three layer stack. As long as the epoxy
does not harden you can keep adding layers without sanding.
Step 9
Repeat steps 5,6,7 for the final one layer stack that will be used for th
e
bottom fuselage edge. We trimmed the width to 2 =C2=BD=9D wide and
carefully
brushed it so it just touched the tape edge on the fuselage.
Step 10
Repeat steps 5,6,7 for the final one layer stack that will be used for th
e
upper windshield edge. We trimmed the width to 2 =C2=BD=9D wide and
carefully
brushed it so it just touched the tape edge on the windshield.
Step 11
Press peelply on the top of the fairing so that it will leave a rough finis
h
that you can add epoxy and micro balloons without having to sand. The
peelply should be removed once the epoxy is cured.
We precut all the layers of cloth and in less than two hours I had a fairin
g
that is going to take very little sanding and looks great.
Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10 with Windows and a Fairing
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050
000000007)
Message 17
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| Subject: | How to build the Windshield faring |
Rob
Do you have any pictures (*I hope so*).
By the way, the last time I pilfered some of my wife=92s sewing supplies
to
cut fibreglass, I was told in no uncertain terms that I would be
neutered if
I did it again. That was over 10 years ago, am I am still occasionally
reminded of my transgression. Be warned!
Cheers
Les
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RobHickman@AOL.COM
Sent: June-30-08 1:29 PM
Subject: RV10-List: How to build the Windshield faring
One advantage of having the windows not bond the first time is I got to
remake the front fairing with the help of my neighbor Jim Cullison that
built an award winning Lancair. The made the first fairing using
Van=92s
plans, laid up in place and I thought it looked really good after hours
and
hours of sanding.
Jim suggested we do it like Lancair; wet out the layers on the table
and
then transfer the 5 foot floppy mess to the windshield. After my
experience
with the Lancair window epoxy I was less than excited about using
another
Lancair inspired technique. After much discussion with my fellow
RV-builder=92s that had stopped by to check my progress we all decided
it
would never work. My wife Jennifer then informed the skeptical group
that
Jim had built a whole airplane out of fiberglass and he just might know
what
he is doing.
To my surprise =93The Cullison Technique=94 worked fantastic, the faring
looks
great and took very little sanding.
Step 1
Use Blue masking tape to tape mark where the faring will be on the
window
and the top of the fuselage. The tape should be located where the faring
will be. You can keep moving the tape until everyone agrees it looks
good.
Step 2
Use 20 mil black pipe wrapping tape from Home Depot to layout the edge
of
the faring next to the masking tape. This black tape is really thick
electrical tape, is very rugged and really works well.
Step 3
Remove the masking tape and aggressively sand the windshield and
aluminum
fuselage where the faring will bond to. The thick black tape really
protects
the window and fuselage faring edge. After sanding clean the aluminum
with
Acetone (do not get on window) and blow off the window with air.
Step 4
Build the bottom window fillet out of Epoxy and micro balloons; this
should
fill the joint between the windshield and fuselage making a smooth
radius.
We used slow cure hardener so that we would have lots of time.
Step 5
Lay a piece of thin clear plastic on a 6 foot table that is about 1 foot
wide. Cut your first 3 layers of increasing widths of fiberglass cloth
using a long ruler and a rotary cutter (we used 9 0z bias cloth, the
woven
fibers run diagonal so that it will curve ). The rotary cutter is a
handle
with a sharp wheel that makes the long cuts very easy (I found mine in
Jennifer=92s sewing supplies). Lay the strips of fiberglass in a stack
with
the widest on the bottom on the plastic. Pour a line of epoxy down the
glass cloth and let it soak through the layers, you should add more
resin to
places that are not wetting out. Once the stack of cloth is wet out
you
should fold the plastic over the top of the stack and then using a hard
roller you should roll the extra resin out of the stack.
Step 6
Using your long metal ruler as a guide and the rotary cutter trim both
long
edges of the fabric and plastic sandwich. You should only be trimming
the
edge of the bottom glass layer and the extra plastic and resin.
Step 7
Remove the top plastic layer from the stack and then using two people
flip
over the stack and carefully place it in the middle of the
windshield-fuselage faring. Once we had it located fairly close we
removed
the top plastic layer and used a brush to push it in place and remove
any
bubbles.
Step 8
Repeat steps 5,6,7 for the next three layer stack. As long as the
epoxy
does not harden you can keep adding layers without sanding.
Step 9
Repeat steps 5,6,7 for the final one layer stack that will be used for
the
bottom fuselage edge. We trimmed the width to 2 =BD=94 wide and
carefully
brushed it so it just touched the tape edge on the fuselage.
Step 10
Repeat steps 5,6,7 for the final one layer stack that will be used for
the
upper windshield edge. We trimmed the width to 2 =BD=94 wide and
carefully
brushed it so it just touched the tape edge on the windshield.
Step 11
Press peelply on the top of the fairing so that it will leave a rough
finish
that you can add epoxy and micro balloons without having to sand. The
peelply should be removed once the epoxy is cured.
We precut all the layers of cloth and in less than two hours I had a
fairing
that is going to take very little sanding and looks great.
Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10 with Windows and a Fairing
_____
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used
cars
<http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007> .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: How to build the Windshield faring |
Rob,
I used the same technique as you, with only 2 minor changes. I was concerned about
the flox that forms the fillet at the bottom of the windscreen pushing through
to the interior and creating an irregular edge, so I took a length of 3/8"
round weather strip which I coated with mold release wax, and worked it into
the angle between the inside of the windscreen and the glare shield with a paint
stir stick. When the flox was cured I pulled the weather strip out, leaving
a nice rounded contour at the bottom of the windscreen.
Also I had seen several -10's with a bulge at the ends of the windscreen fairing,
caused by the 10 layers of glass called for. For the first 6 layers I cut back
the ends 1" per layer so they were staggered. The top 4 layers are full length.
This was enough to eliminate the bulge, and made it much easier to fair
to the front edge of the door.
Jim Berry
40482
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190622#190622
Message 19
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Started it yesterday on an unattached tailcone. I've logged 8 hours and 2.8 for
my wife. Will probably finish in another 2 hours after I borrow a 4" yoke. I
only drilled out the two rivets on each side common to the F-1010 and F-1010A.
This is the hardest part. The entire operation can be done from outside the tailcone,
although I had an advantage in that I could roll it to one side or the
other on a table for easy access.
There is no need to pull the F-1014 aft deck and ruin those "beautiful" rivets.
The right tools are essential. Sioux drill, Right Angle drill attachment with
the optional chuck - such as Avery's kit, slightly longer chucking bits than
normal, a mirror, and a flashlight held by you-know-who.
Everything is accessible through the lightening holes in the aft deck and the large
hole in F-1009. If you can't roll the tailcone from side to side like I could,
it's still doable, but will definitely be less comfortable.
I buggered one of the four rivets that was inboard, so I carefully "buggered the
other one to match." Drilled them to take an AN3-5A and it looks great.
As soon as I borrow the 4" yoke, I'll get the hard to reach ones done. The pneumatic
squeezer doesn't get along with the one rivet next to the J-channel, so
I'll probably have to shoot & buck it. De-burring was surprisingly easy, although
the mirror makes your sense of direction go crazy.
I'm extremely pleased with the results and I didn't have to touch the aft deck
(although it did teach my forearms a lesson). I would highly recommend doing it
this way if at all possible. I doubt if it's any faster, but I sure feel better
about leaving the aft deck alone.
For you flying guys, Tim's discovery of some smoking rivets may make the Van's
way the preferred method - I might have missed something like that.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190646#190646
Message 20
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| Subject: | Hysol 9360 Test and Window Install |
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Message 21
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Hi
A question from a member of the peanut gallery who just received the SB kit. Is
there any reason that Cherry Max rivets shouldn't be used for the hard to reach
rivet locations?
Inquiring minds need to know...
Les Kearney
#40643
----- Original Message -----
From: johngoodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
Subject: RV10-List: Re: SB work
> <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
> Started it yesterday on an unattached tailcone. I've logged 8
> hours and 2.8 for my wife. Will probably finish in another 2
> hours after I borrow a 4" yoke. I only drilled out the two
> rivets on each side common to the F-1010 and F-1010A. This is
> the hardest part. The entire operation can be done from outside
> the tailcone, although I had an advantage in that I could roll
> it to one side or the other on a table for easy access.
> There is no need to pull the F-1014 aft deck and ruin those
> "beautiful" rivets. The right tools are essential. Sioux drill,
> Right Angle drill attachment with the optional chuck - such as
> Avery's kit, slightly longer chucking bits than normal, a
> mirror, and a flashlight held by you-know-who.
> Everything is accessible through the lightening holes in the aft
> deck and the large hole in F-1009. If you can't roll the
> tailcone from side to side like I could, it's still doable, but
> will definitely be less comfortable.
> I buggered one of the four rivets that was inboard, so I
> carefully "buggered the other one to match." Drilled them to
> take an AN3-5A and it looks great.
> As soon as I borrow the 4" yoke, I'll get the hard to reach ones
> done. The pneumatic squeezer doesn't get along with the one
> rivet next to the J-channel, so I'll probably have to shoot &
> buck it. De-burring was surprisingly easy, although the mirror
> makes your sense of direction go crazy.
> I'm extremely pleased with the results and I didn't have to
> touch the aft deck (although it did teach my forearms a lesson).
> I would highly recommend doing it this way if at all possible. I
> doubt if it's any faster, but I sure feel better about leaving
> the aft deck alone.
> For you flying guys, Tim's discovery of some smoking rivets may
> make the Van's way the preferred method - I might have missed
> something like that.
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
> N711JG reserved
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190646#190646
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> _-
> = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> _-
> = - List Contribution Web Site -
> _-
> = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Hysol 9360 Test and Window Install |
I think the big thing folks are "glazing" over here is that the weld-on
CHEMICALLY reacts with acrylic and so happens to bond to the fiberglass.
It uses this reaction with acrylic to achieve is bond strength which is
substantial. The epoxy product will never create the bond since it is
not REACTING with the acrylic. I see the weld-on as exactly that ...a
plastic/acrylic weld. Epoxy is not doing that to the acrylic.
-Chris Lucas
#40072 sticking with weld-on in this application
----- Original Message -----
From: John Cox
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 9:55 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Hysol 9360 Test and Window Install
Hysol comes by a plethora of product numbers (each application
specific). Some on this list will curse Hysol and swear by Weldon
products (they might even be first-time builders). Plastic aircraft
builders have a vastly deeper reservoir of proven products than even the
most prolific RV builder - David Lewis. RV builders (with no offense
intended) are still in the dark ages when it comes to proper adhesives
for specific missions with plastic products.
RV factory techniques of inserting the windows from outside the
pressure vessel on the low pressure side are not the same as inserting
the window from inside the pressure vessel. We as RV builders do not
yet have an approved Turbo or Pressurized RV-10 but the differences
become self evident with study. Just because the factory designed it
outside does not make it better.
A close friend lost his Lancair windows (both original and replacement
panes) at 25,000 feet - twice. After the group humiliation, the humor
came at his use of the wrong product and failure to properly prep the
plastic substrate following clear and concise directions with proven
chemicals. There is a valuable kernel of knowledge somewhere in that
pile of straw and by product. Talk to veteran plastic plane builders.
There accident rate comes from stupid operators and not poor plastic
adhesion techniques.
When the correct numbered product is used with the correct technique,
Crazing is never (or seldom a result) and installation failure is
reduced (like somewhere down around my chance of a winning lottery
ticket). Maybe Dave Saylor can pipe in on the correct Hysol numbers and
clarity here. Hysol 9360 when properly stored, surface prepped, and
properly applied will give repeatedly great results.
John Cox
N49CX RV-10
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RobHickman@aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 10:02 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Hysol 9360 Test and Window Install
After last week=99s window install fiasco I talked to Lancair
about their window install and decided to perform a glue test. Lancair
has been using Hysol for =9Cover 15 years without any
problems=9D and believes that the Hysol is the only way to go.
When I talked to the Hysol support they were not real positive about
using it to bond acrylic windows and suggested that I do a test.
For the test I bonded two pieces of the left over front window two
each other, they were sanded with 80 grit and clamped together and left
to harden in the 100F sun. After 36 hours the parts bonded with Hysol
easily pulled apart by hand, the parts bonded with three year old
expired Weldon-10 could not be separated, even with a screw driver and
hammer. The Hysol data does shows:
Curing - This adhesive may be cured for 5 to 7 days at
>77=C2=B0F/25=C2=B0C to achieve normal performance. Accelerated cures up
to 200=C2=B0F/93=C2=B0C (for small masses only) may be used as an
alternative. For example, 1 hour at 180=C2=B0F/82=C2=B0C will give
complete cure.
It has been very hot over the weekend and I find it hard to believe
that it would have got a lot stronger in 5 days.
Why does it work for Lancair?
I made a trip to a local Lancair ES builder that just installed his
windows to have a look. The Lancair windows are installed from the
inside, have a 1 =C2=BD=9D wide joint for bonding and after
bonding you layup two to three layers of fiberglass between the windows
and fuselage. It looks to me like the windows would not come out even
if you did not use any Hysol
So after all this I installed the windows using Weldon-10 and actually
found that it was not that bad to work with and I don=99t think I
have any crazing in the acrylic.
Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used
cars.
=======================
??~??,=03g?=D3=93
Message 23
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| Subject: | Fuel Sender Question |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cHJvYmFibHkgbm90IGdldCB0aGUgbGFzdCA1IGdhbGxvbnMgb3Igc28gYXMgcGFydCBvZiBvdXIg
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4oCcYmxpbmTigJ0gYXJlYSBvZiBhcHByb3hpbWF0ZWx5IGhhbGYgdGhlIHRhbmsuIFRoaXMgbGVh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Message 24
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| Subject: | Rudder pedal mounting |
The instructions have you cut the F-6115 rudder pedal bearing block in
half which removes material and causes the part to clamp the rudder
pedal assemblies. Has anyone used spacers between the two halfs to
prevent the action from being so stiff?
Dave Leikam
#40496 N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
Message 25
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| Subject: | alas - window install |
I've joined Tim Olson's ranks of having to sand down some of the plexi on t
his first window that I glued in tonight.=0AI think I've outdone-everyone
in my personal feeling of the quality of the install.- =0AThat being sai
d, aside from only one large air bubble that I can get to fairly easily, I
think that I've really only created extra work, and haven't done some catas
trophic deed that could only be fixed with a new door/window!- I'll have
to add some epoxy to the exterior seam areas that didn't completely fill up
; I'll have to build a fillet on the inside of the door after having to cut
so much electrical tape back out a la Tim O (even after only waiting 15 mi
n!), and the rest of the cosmetic stuff will be covered by a thin layer of
glass on top of the seam, which I was going to do anyway so that really isn
't adding any work.=0AI'd like some more info/pics on getting a nice smooth
curve of -glass around the windows.- I hear 2 or 4 oz, right?- Just en
ough to cover the seam and be able to fair?=0AThree windows and a windshiel
d to go.=0AMore tips?- I figure next window I won't need any electrical t
ape on the rear of the window.- I'm installing on the bench so runs aren'
t that bad on the back.=0ARob Wright=0A#392=0ACanopy light at the end of th
e tunnel=0APlanning on flying for a long time while I take my time to do th
e paint prep - the freshly birthed airplane won't be a Gerber baby!=0A=0A
=0A
Message 26
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nope!
From: LES KEARNEY
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: SB work
Hi
A question from a member of the peanut gallery who just received the SB
kit. Is there any reason that Cherry Max rivets shouldn't be used for
the hard to reach rivet locations?
Inquiring minds need to know...
Les Kearney
#40643
----- Original Message -----
From: johngoodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
Subject: RV10-List: Re: SB work
> <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
> Started it yesterday on an unattached tailcone. I've logged 8
> hours and 2.8 for my wife. Will probably finish in another 2
> hours after I borrow a 4" yoke. I only drilled out the two
> rivets on each side common to the F-1010 and F-1010A. This is
> the hardest part. The entire operation can be done from outside
> the tailcone, although I had an advantage in that I could roll
> it to one side or the other on a table for easy access.
> There is no need to pull the F-1014 aft deck and ruin those
> "beautiful" rivets. The right tools are essential. Sioux drill,
> Right Angle drill attachment with the optional chuck - such as
> Avery's kit, slightly longer chucking bits than normal, a
> mirror, and a flashlight held by you-know-who.
> Everything is accessible through the lightening holes in the aft
> deck and the large hole in F-1009. If you can't roll the
> tailcone from side to side like I could, it's still doable, but
> will definitely be less comfortable.
> I buggered one of the four rivets that was inboard, so I
> carefully "buggered the other one to match." Drilled them to
> take an AN3-5A and it looks great.
> As soon as I borrow the 4" yoke, I'll get the hard to reach ones
> done. The pneumatic squeezer doesn't get along with the one
> rivet next to the J-channel, so I'll probably have to shoot &
> buck it. De-burring was surprisingly easy, although the mirror
> makes your sense of direction go crazy.
> I'm extremely pleased with the results and I didn't have to
> touch the aft deck (although it did teach my forearms a lesson).
> I would highly recommend doing it this way if at all possible. I
> doubt if it's any faster, but I sure feel better about leaving
> the aft deck alone.
> For you flying guys, Tim's discovery of some smoking rivets may
> make the Van's way the preferred method - I might have missed
> something like that.
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
> N711JG reserved
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190646#190646
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> RV10-List Email Forum -
>
> _-
> = - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>
> _-
> = - List Contribution Web Site -
> _-
> = -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Question |
You should get float movement up to about 23-24 gallons.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Robin Marks wrote:
> RV-10 List,
>
> I am beginning to learn the hard way about the differences
> between float type, resistance, senders and capacitance senders. We
> installed the standard float type resistance senders that are standard
> with the kit. We are now at the point where we are filling up the tanks
> 1 gallon at a time to calibrate the G900X and we found that the float
> seems to top out when the tanks are about half full or at about 14-15
> gallons. I always assumed based on the outboard fill location plus the
> slope of the tanks and given the float location that we would probably
> not get the last 5 gallons or so as part of our float reading however we
> are experiencing a much greater blind area of approximately half the
> tank. This leads to a whole host of issues involving the EFIS readings
> that I dont want to think about at this time. Obviously the most
> critical portion of the tank is well represented but it would be great
> to read my fuel levels well above half way.
>
> Is there something we are missing regarding getting more fuel level
> resolution out of our resistance senders? The Garmin rep is helping up
> set up the panel. He said this is a common issue with some Bonanzas to
> the point where they place two float sensors in the tank, one for the
> upper portion of the tank and one for the lower portion of the tank.
>
> I am open to any suggestion as to a way to read more than half the fuel
> in these tanks.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Robin
>
>
>
> Getting closer and further all the time.
>
> ~,gM4Gqz.'8E]t.+-fZ+`axr^jzZ(j|n)b'!j'+ry'C
> { ,x(ZP!jrr
> 'ojj+E]t.+-i0fr(Z(W]
hM $NEC&z
> j(lVj^Yikx&i
> kx&B{ky.+jY^.+-i0fr((nbxm-&j',rr&*''k{w/tml
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder pedal mounting |
It won't feel so bad when you actually get them mounted in
the plane and use your feet. Yes, by hand they feel really
stiff though.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Dave Leikam wrote:
> The instructions have you cut the F-6115 rudder pedal bearing block in
> half which removes material and causes the part to clamp the rudder
> pedal assemblies. Has anyone used spacers between the two halfs to
> prevent the action from being so stiff?
>
> Dave Leikam
> #40496 N89DA (Reserved)
> Muskego, WI
>
Message 29
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You should be able to use them. The only caveat is that
if you use them, and there is another better "fix" down the line
that is required, it's very very hard to drill out CherryMax
rivets compared to just drilling standard universal rivets.
If it's forever though, then there shouldn't be any big problem.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
pascal wrote:
> nope!
>
> *From:* LES KEARNEY <mailto:Kearney@shaw.ca>
> *Sent:* Monday, June 30, 2008 7:50 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Re: SB work
>
> Hi
>
> A question from a member of the peanut gallery who just received the SB
> kit. Is there any reason that Cherry Max rivets shouldn't be used for
> the hard to reach rivet locations?
>
> Inquiring minds need to know...
>
> Les Kearney
> #40643
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: johngoodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net
> <mailto:johngoodman@earthlink.net>>
> Date: Monday, June 30, 2008 8:00 pm
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: SB work
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
> > <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
> > Started it yesterday on an unattached tailcone. I've logged 8
> > hours and 2.8 for my wife. Will probably finish in another 2
> > hours after I borrow a 4" yoke. I only drilled out the two
> > rivets on each side common to the F-1010 and F-1010A. This is
> > the hardest part. The entire operation can be done from outside
> > the tailcone, although I had an advantage in that I could roll
> > it to one side or the other on a table for easy access.
> > There is no need to pull the F-1014 aft deck and ruin those
> > "beautiful" rivets. The right tools are essential. Sioux drill,
> > Right Angle drill attachment with the optional chuck - such as
> > Avery's kit, slightly longer chucking bits than normal, a
> > mirror, and a flashlight held by you-know-who.
> > Everything is accessible through the lightening holes in the aft
> > deck and the large hole in F-1009. If you can't roll the
> > tailcone from side to side like I could, it's still doable, but
> > will definitely be less comfortable.
> > I buggered one of the four rivets that was inboard, so I
> > carefully "buggered the other one to match." Drilled them to
> > take an AN3-5A and it looks great.
> > As soon as I borrow the 4" yoke, I'll get the hard to reach ones
> > done. The pneumatic squeezer doesn't get along with the one
> > rivet next to the J-channel, so I'll probably have to shoot &
> > buck it. De-burring was surprisingly easy, although the mirror
> > makes your sense of direction go crazy.
> > I'm extremely pleased with the results and I didn't have to
> > touch the aft deck (although it did teach my forearms a lesson).
> > I would highly recommend doing it this way if at all possible. I
> > doubt if it's any faster, but I sure feel better about leaving
> > the aft deck alone.
> > For you flying guys, Tim's discovery of some smoking rivets may
> > make the Van's way the preferred method - I might have missed
> > something like that.
> > John
> >
> > --------
> > #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
> > N711JG reserved
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190646#190646
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==========
> >
> > Navigator to Un/Subscription,
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> > ==========
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> > _-
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Message 30
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| Subject: | Lower Cowling Cooling Vents |
Has anyone studied the actual direction of the airflow as it descends down through
the cylinders and tries to make it's way out, either the louver outlets, or
straight out the back? Seems that the louvers would possibly be more efficient
if they were installed at an angle, say 45 degrees. Has anyone installed
a couple of louvers directly below the oil cooler to more easily facilitate the
exit of air from there?
Don McDonald
#40636 Finishing
N14XG
--------
Don A. McDonald
40636
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190671#190671
Message 31
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| Subject: | Rudder pedal mounting |
I opened up the holes a bit for a looser fit. You don't need anything super
precise there, and less friction is better.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 8:29 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Rudder pedal mounting
The instructions have you cut the F-6115 rudder pedal bearing block in half
which removes material and causes the part to clamp the rudder pedal
assemblies. Has anyone used spacers between the two halfs to prevent the
action from being so stiff?
Dave Leikam
#40496 N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
Message 32
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| Subject: | Hysol 9360 Test and Window Install |
Piping in:
We've had generally good success with Hysol, but not a perfect record.
One IV-P windsheild had to be re-bonded after it popped out, similar to
Rob's experience (which I think we should refer to from now on as "The
Hickman Incident", unless there's already a better one ;-).
Rob and John are right, Lancair uses a much different method: installed
from the inside, then laminated over. The plex is thereby trapped in a
deep groove. You could probably replace the Hysol with bubble gum and
get good results (very, very high quality bubble gum).
And, we've used at least three diffrent formulas. Now we're using 9360
(white-ish beige) as recommended by Lancair, but we've also used a
bright blue and a dark green, as formerly recommended. For general
non-structural glueing we often use small tubes of "EP120", yet another
Hysol product, from McMaster-Carr. There are probably 100 different
Hysol formulas.
Per Lancair's instructions, we mix in a little flox. We use 120 grit to
rough up the edges. This is on the recommendation of Harold Bunyi, who
some of you know from our classes. He's good with glue.
The point of sanding the edges is to get rid of the outer, less reactive
layer of acrylic. Accoring to the Hysol instructions:
"Surface abrasion can also remove other surface contaminants as well as
weak, low molecular weight components which can be concentratred at the
surface due to their exclusion during solidification or crystallization
of some polymers. Also during solidification of both thermoplastic
(RV-10 windows) and thermoset materials, there is often an orientation
of the more polar groups toward the interior, leaving a concentration of
lower polarity, lower energy groups on the surface. Abrasion can open
up access to the more energetic polymer interior".
Now, I'm in over my head when it gets to the part about molecular
weight. But I'm sure that what this is basically saying is that Hysol
won't stick well to the finished surface of Plexiglas. You have to get
rid of the outer "skin" to get to the reactive part of the plex that
will adhere well.
I don't know why Rob's test pieces failed. And I'm sure Weld-On will do
a fine job. As usual, deviating from the plans almost always makes it
harder. I used Hysol for my windshield joggle, with a thin overlay. So
far so good after 150 hours and a couple of torture tests. But I
haven't *tried* to remove it. Maybe I should...
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 6:56 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Hysol 9360 Test and Window Install
Hysol comes by a plethora of product numbers (each application
specific). Some on this list will curse Hysol and swear by Weldon
products (they might even be first-time builders). Plastic aircraft
builders have a vastly deeper reservoir of proven products than even the
most prolific RV builder - David Lewis. RV builders (with no offense
intended) are still in the dark ages when it comes to proper adhesives
for specific missions with plastic products.
RV factory techniques of inserting the windows from outside the pressure
vessel on the low pressure side are not the same as inserting the window
from inside the pressure vessel. We as RV builders do not yet have an
approved Turbo or Pressurized RV-10 but the differences become self
evident with study. Just because the factory designed it outside does
not make it better.
A close friend lost his Lancair windows (both original and replacement
panes) at 25,000 feet - twice. After the group humiliation, the humor
came at his use of the wrong product and failure to properly prep the
plastic substrate following clear and concise directions with proven
chemicals. There is a valuable kernel of knowledge somewhere in that
pile of straw and by product. Talk to veteran plastic plane builders.
There accident rate comes from stupid operators and not poor plastic
adhesion techniques.
When the correct numbered product is used with the correct technique,
Crazing is never (or seldom a result) and installation failure is
reduced (like somewhere down around my chance of a winning lottery
ticket). Maybe Dave Saylor can pipe in on the correct Hysol numbers and
clarity here. Hysol 9360 when properly stored, surface prepped, and
properly applied will give repeatedly great results.
John Cox
N49CX RV-10
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RobHickman@aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 10:02 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Hysol 9360 Test and Window Install
After last week=99s window install fiasco I talked to Lancair
about their window install and decided to perform a glue test. Lancair
has been using Hysol for =9Cover 15 years without any
problems=9D and believes that the Hysol is the only way to go.
When I talked to the Hysol support they were not real positive about
using it to bond acrylic windows and suggested that I do a test.
For the test I bonded two pieces of the left over front window two each
other, they were sanded with 80 grit and clamped together and left to
harden in the 100F sun. After 36 hours the parts bonded with Hysol
easily pulled apart by hand, the parts bonded with three year old
expired Weldon-10 could not be separated, even with a screw driver and
hammer. The Hysol data does shows:
Curing - This adhesive may be cured for 5 to 7 days at
>77=C2=B0F/25=C2=B0C to achieve normal performance. Accelerated cures up
to 200=C2=B0F/93=C2=B0C (for small masses only) may be used as an
alternative. For example, 1 hour at 180=C2=B0F/82=C2=B0C will give
complete cure.
It has been very hot over the weekend and I find it hard to believe that
it would have got a lot stronger in 5 days.
Why does it work for Lancair?
I made a trip to a local Lancair ES builder that just installed his
windows to have a look. The Lancair windows are installed from the
inside, have a 1 =C2=BD=9D wide joint for bonding and after
bonding you layup two to three layers of fiberglass between the windows
and fuselage. It looks to me like the windows would not come out even
if you did not use any Hysol
So after all this I installed the windows using Weldon-10 and actually
found that it was not that bad to work with and I don=99t think I
have any crazing in the acrylic.
Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10
_____
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<http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007> cars.
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