Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:53 AM - FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com)
2. 05:50 AM - Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (bruce breckenridge)
3. 07:01 AM - Last day for early 7/18 campsites (Tim Olson)
4. 08:05 AM - Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (AirMike)
5. 08:06 AM - Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (Dave Saylor)
6. 08:12 AM - Re: Cabin top - redux (AirMike)
7. 08:14 AM - Re: Who's Flying in to OSH, and on what days? (Tim Olson)
8. 08:18 AM - Re: BOSE (LEMO) headset jack in panel (AirMike)
9. 08:19 AM - Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (Rob Kermanj)
10. 08:30 AM - Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (Lenny Iszak)
11. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (Tim Olson)
12. 08:55 AM - Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (Matt Dralle)
13. 09:18 AM - Re: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
14. 09:31 AM - Re: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (Scott Schmidt)
15. 09:45 AM - Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (Rene Felker)
16. 10:00 AM - Re: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (pascal)
17. 10:36 AM - Re: Window Trouble (Dave Saylor)
18. 10:47 AM - Re: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (Tim Olson)
19. 10:59 AM - Re: Window Trouble (John Gonzalez)
20. 11:38 AM - Re: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (Dave Saylor)
21. 11:38 AM - FW: Experimental AB Policy (Dave Saylor)
22. 11:38 AM - Re: Re: Who's Flying in to OSH, and on what days? ()
23. 12:14 PM - Solid-state electrical system preso at OSH (Marc Ausman)
24. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (linn Walters)
25. 01:36 PM - Re: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (PJ Seipel)
26. 01:43 PM - Re: Re: BOSE (LEMO) headset jack in panel (William Curtis)
27. 02:02 PM - Re: Who's Flying in to OSH, and on what days? (William Curtis)
28. 02:24 PM - Re: Re: BOSE (LEMO) headset jack in panel (Rick Sked)
29. 02:53 PM - Flying RV-10 Weight (Robin Marks)
30. 03:25 PM - Re: Flying RV-10 Weight (Rene Felker)
31. 04:23 PM - Re: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (Roger Standley)
32. 04:25 PM - Re: Re: BOSE (LEMO) headset jack in panel (Bill DeRouchey)
33. 05:12 PM - Re: Flying RV-10 Weight (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
34. 05:24 PM - Re: Re: BOSE (LEMO) headset jack in panel (Rick Sked)
35. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule (Rick Sked)
36. 05:58 PM - Re: Flying RV-10 Weight (Robin Marks)
37. 06:25 PM - Re: Flying RV-10 Weight (Tim Olson)
38. 06:52 PM - Re: Flying RV-10 Weight (Dave Saylor)
39. 07:13 PM - Re: Flying RV-10 Weight (John Cumins)
Message 1
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| Subject: | FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
Found this on AVweb, looks like the FAA has issued something on the 51%
rule. Not sure how to interpret it, just FYI....
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2008/E8-16093.htm
Thanks, Jason Kreidler
4-Partner Build (Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elsner)
Sheboygan Falls, WI
#40617 Finishing
Do Not Archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
Well, I sure hope that mating, drilling, reaming, deburring, scuffing,
smoothing, dimpling, priming, cursing & crying are all part of the
fabrication process.
Bruce
40018 Wings
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:48 AM, <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com> wrote:
>
> Found this on AVweb, looks like the FAA has issued something on the 51%
> rule. Not sure how to interpret it, just FYI....
>
> http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2008/E8-16093.htm
>
> Thanks, Jason Kreidler
> 4-Partner Build (Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elsner)
> Sheboygan Falls, WI
> #40617 Finishing
> Do Not Archive
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Last day for early 7/18 campsites |
Looks like we've got 10 paid sites for reservation tomorrow
a.m. that I'll be going over to stake, and 13 that will be
staked out next week.
http://www.myrv10.com/osh/2008_Campsites.html
If there are any stragglers who want to grab a site with the bunch
I stake out tomorrow a.m., get me the payment today and I'll get it
on the list. You still have a couple days to get money to Bob if you
want some in that group. The camping FAQ has also been updated
with more info from Bob and I.
http://www.myrv10.com/osh/Camping_FAQ.html
Here is a large, printable map for use to find your way to us.
NOTE THAT AS OF TODAY THIS IS STILL MARKED WITH 2007 site locations.
http://www.myrv10.com/osh/Scholler_OSH2007_RV10HQ.jpg
I will update the maps probably Friday afternoon or evening with
the locations of the sites that I got for the early group. I will
be striving for contiguous sites, rather than the groupings listed
in 2007, but will attempt to be in the same general location.
I will also take photos of the campsite area so you can get a
good view of the sites, however the grounds will be MUCH fuller
when you arrive.
Looking forward to seeing everyone there!
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
If I interpret it correctly, it looks like the FAA is proposing to go to a 20%
rule - where the manufacturer and assembly shop do 80% and the builder does a
minimum of 20%. The intent seems to be that the builder is then minimally capable
of doing maintenance with their repairman certificate.
--------
OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193366#193366
Message 5
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| Subject: | FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
Cursing and crying are the "recreation" part. Bleeding is generally
considered "education".
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bruce
breckenridge
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule
Well, I sure hope that mating, drilling, reaming, deburring, scuffing,
smoothing, dimpling, priming, cursing & crying are all part of the
fabrication process.
Bruce
40018 Wings
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:48 AM, <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com> wrote:
Found this on AVweb, looks like the FAA has issued something on the 51%
rule. Not sure how to interpret it, just FYI....
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2008/E8-16093.htm
Thanks, Jason Kreidler
4-Partner Build (Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elsner)
Sheboygan Falls, WI
#40617 Finishing
Do Not Archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin top - redux |
Abbey has a bunch of different fabrics that cover up a lot of sins. If you insert
a piece of thin plastic like the trim taken off the wing tips you could probably
conceal it completely. My only big suggestion is to install the fabric with
the cabin top off the plane and upside down. (After you install the windows).
Makes the job much much easier.
Last year at OSH I saw two guys from Iowa who installed the WalMart/Costco LED
(battery powered) lights in the plane for interior lighting. Looked and works
great. Cheap and you cannot run down the battery in the plane.
--------
OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193367#193367
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Who's Flying in to OSH, and on what days? |
Since I can't really concentrate on work anyway now that we're
this close to OSH, I added the Flying RV-10's that we know
will be arriving to the Campsite Chart.
http://www.myrv10.com/osh/2008_Campsites.html#RV10_OSH
Now I'm just thrilled!! Randy's coming!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Randy DeBauw wrote:
> 40006 will be there on Sat the 26th and leaving on the 31st. Randy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Schmidt
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 15, 2008 8:03 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Who's Flying in to OSH, and on what days?
>
> We will be flying in Thursday July 24th, and leave the following Saturday.
>
> Scott Schmidt
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Dave Saylor <Dave@AirCraftersLLC.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 11:25:05 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Who's Flying in to OSH, and on what days?
>
> <mailto:Dave@aircraftersllc.com>>
>
> We are arriving in N921AC Monday morning. We're staying in Wassau Sunday
> night, then making the short flight to OSH as early as possible.
>
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters LLC
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA
> 831-722-9141
> 831-750-0284 CL
> www.AirCraftersLLC.com <http://www.AirCraftersLLC.com>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 9:01 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Who's Flying in to OSH, and on what days?
>
> <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
>
> I'm interested for a couple of reasons in finding out who is flying their
> RV-10 into OSH this year, and what days they plan to arrive and depart.
>
> One reason it to give Jeff a heads up for space, and the other reason is for
> a little video/photo project I may undertake.
>
> I'm sure the list is curious as well.
>
> Sooooooo, who's going, and when?
>
> I'm flying in either Friday night (preferred) before the show, but
> definitely by Saturday noon, and then I likely will leave either Friday or
> Saturday towards the end of the week.
>
> I'll try to keep a tally so we have it in one email after a bunch
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: BOSE (LEMO) headset jack in panel |
I would reinforce the decision to also put in the RCA jacks as a back up.
Kinda like a backup set of steam guages......
--------
OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193369#193369
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
This is funny! Keep going guys.
Rob.
On Jul 17, 2008, at 11:00 AM, Dave Saylor wrote:
> Cursing and crying are the "recreation" part. Bleeding is generally
> considered "education".
>
> do not archive
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of bruce breckenridge
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 5:44 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule
>
> Well, I sure hope that mating, drilling, reaming, deburring,
> scuffing, smoothing, dimpling, priming, cursing & crying are all
> part of the fabrication process.
>
> Bruce
>
> 40018 Wings
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:48 AM, <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
> wrote:
>
> Found this on AVweb, looks like the FAA has issued something on the
> 51% rule. Not sure how to interpret it, just FYI....
>
> http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2008/E8-16093.htm
>
> Thanks, Jason Kreidler
> 4-Partner Build (Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elsner)
> Sheboygan Falls, WI
> #40617 Finishing
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
What is pinching your fingers with the pneumatic squeezer considered? How about
two at the same time? [Crying or Very sad]
Lenny,
#40803 baggage area
--------
Regards,
Lenny
#40803
Rudder almost done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193376#193376
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
I'm thinking it's a bit different. I'm thinking that whereas
so many of our parts are currently prefabricated with the kit,
that they will want to see more actual part fabrication on
behalf of the builders. There really aren't that many of
the standard critical parts that we ourselves fabricated,
so what I think it is, is that the 51% rule still applies,
but they'll want increased documentation, and will want to
require that the builder actually fabricate or have a hand
in fabricating 20% of the parts, and do 20% of the assembly
of the kit too.
It does seem that this would be a big positive IMHO. Personally
I think that an experimental models safety record probably has
something to do with how much the builder actually participates
in the build...as they know the plane better, and care more for
their blood, sweat, and tears...all of which I know I shed on
my kit. :)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
AirMike wrote:
>
> If I interpret it correctly, it looks like the FAA is proposing to go
> to a 20% rule - where the manufacturer and assembly shop do 80% and
> the builder does a minimum of 20%. The intent seems to be that the
> builder is then minimally capable of doing maintenance with their
> repairman certificate.
>
> -------- OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09 Q/B Kit -
> exited cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193366#193366
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
At first, it sounds like they want to reduce the amount of prefab and assembly
currently occurring in the homebuilt industry. But, then in the third-to-last
paragraph it sounds like a significant reduction, e.g. 20% fabrication minimum,
20% construction minimum.
Imagine what Van's could do with a 20/20 ruling! Wow.
Matt
At 05:44 AM 7/17/2008 Thursday, you wrote:
>Well, I sure hope that mating, drilling, reaming, deburring, scuffing, smoothing,
dimpling, priming, cursing & crying are all part of the fabrication process.
>
>Bruce
>
>40018 Wings
>
>
>On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:48 AM, <<mailto:jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com> wrote:
>
>Found this on AVweb, looks like the FAA has issued something on the 51% rule.
Not sure how to interpret it, just FYI....
>
><http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2008/E8-16093.htm>http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2008/E8-16093.htm
>
>Thanks, Jason Kreidler
>4-Partner Build (Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elsner)
>Sheboygan Falls, WI
>#40617 Finishing
>Do Not Archive
>
>
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
It seems to me that they are moving from a list of tasks to actual percentage of
work to determine 51% in addition to the 20/20 part.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule
I'm thinking it's a bit different. I'm thinking that whereas
so many of our parts are currently prefabricated with the kit,
that they will want to see more actual part fabrication on
behalf of the builders. There really aren't that many of
the standard critical parts that we ourselves fabricated,
so what I think it is, is that the 51% rule still applies,
but they'll want increased documentation, and will want to
require that the builder actually fabricate or have a hand
in fabricating 20% of the parts, and do 20% of the assembly
of the kit too.
It does seem that this would be a big positive IMHO. Personally
I think that an experimental models safety record probably has
something to do with how much the builder actually participates
in the build...as they know the plane better, and care more for
their blood, sweat, and tears...all of which I know I shed on
my kit. :)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
AirMike wrote:
>
> If I interpret it correctly, it looks like the FAA is proposing to go
> to a 20% rule - where the manufacturer and assembly shop do 80% and
> the builder does a minimum of 20%. The intent seems to be that the
> builder is then minimally capable of doing maintenance with their
> repairman certificate.
>
> -------- OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09 Q/B Kit -
> exited cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193366#193366
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
I agree with that assessment Tim.
Didn't the FAA already come out and say that Van's kits are basically one of the
standards the new rules will be written too?
And if that is the case, I don't feel like I made 20% of the parts in the kit even
though it was a slow-build.
That sounds like another rule that will be left to interpretation. Does fabricate
mean to bend your own ribs or just deburr them. Or do you have to mine the
raw material, purchase a plasma furnace and extrude your own angle (J/K).
I'm sure there will be alot of information at Oshkosh on this.
I'm most excited to see this new jet pack they are going to debut on Tuesday at
9:00am. Anybody have some insider info on this?
Let's face it, we all need a jet pack. I can see it now, people texting while
flying their jet pack.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:49:09 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule
I'm thinking it's a bit different. I'm thinking that whereas
so many of our parts are currently prefabricated with the kit,
that they will want to see more actual part fabrication on
behalf of the builders. There really aren't that many of
the standard critical parts that we ourselves fabricated,
so what I think it is, is that the 51% rule still applies,
but they'll want increased documentation, and will want to
require that the builder actually fabricate or have a hand
in fabricating 20% of the parts, and do 20% of the assembly
of the kit too.
It does seem that this would be a big positive IMHO. Personally
I think that an experimental models safety record probably has
something to do with how much the builder actually participates
in the build...as they know the plane better, and care more for
their blood, sweat, and tears...all of which I know I shed on
my kit. :)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
AirMike wrote:
>
> If I interpret it correctly, it looks like the FAA is proposing to go
> to a 20% rule - where the manufacturer and assembly shop do 80% and
> the builder does a minimum of 20%. The intent seems to be that the
> builder is then minimally capable of doing maintenance with their
> repairman certificate.
>
> -------- OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09 Q/B Kit -
> exited cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193366#193366
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
It depends on what they call fabrication.....are pre-punched holes
"fabrication". Is cutting the sheet metal to size "fabrication"? The devil
is in the detail. My guess is that is exactly what they are doing and that
is why it is only 20%.......But that is just my opinion........
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule
At first, it sounds like they want to reduce the amount of prefab and
assembly currently occurring in the homebuilt industry. But, then in the
third-to-last paragraph it sounds like a significant reduction, e.g. 20%
fabrication minimum, 20% construction minimum.
Imagine what Van's could do with a 20/20 ruling! Wow.
Matt
At 05:44 AM 7/17/2008 Thursday, you wrote:
>Well, I sure hope that mating, drilling, reaming, deburring, scuffing,
smoothing, dimpling, priming, cursing & crying are all part of the
fabrication process.
>
>Bruce
>
>40018 Wings
>
>
>On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:48 AM,
<<mailto:jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
wrote:
>
>Found this on AVweb, looks like the FAA has issued something on the 51%
rule. Not sure how to interpret it, just FYI....
>
><http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2008/E8-16093.htm>http://edocket.access.gpo.
gov/2008/E8-16093.htm
>
>Thanks, Jason Kreidler
>4-Partner Build (Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elsner)
>Sheboygan Falls, WI
>#40617 Finishing
>Do Not Archive
>
>
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
When I saw the 20% manufacturer piece I thought the same way Scott, but
I do think cutting angle and shaping it for the fuselage and the bending
of the skins and the fiberglass work!!, I pretty much grabbed the piece
I was sent and "built" it to fit the aircraft as the way it was sent
would never work for me. There is also the piece of those extras we
customize for our planes, the air vents, access panels, in some cases
Panels, like Fred Williams, etc.. when added all up I think the raw
parts are "fabricated" to work and I don't see that fitting in the
"assembly" component, so if not assembly than by default it must be
"fabricated".
That is my interpretation, but I agree when it comes to getting a
Airworthiness and repairman's cert the FAA FSDO may see it a different
way in their interpretation and in the end that is really the issue.
Pascal
From: Scott Schmidt
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule
I agree with that assessment Tim.
Didn't the FAA already come out and say that Van's kits are basically
one of the standards the new rules will be written too?
And if that is the case, I don't feel like I made 20% of the parts in
the kit even though it was a slow-build.
That sounds like another rule that will be left to interpretation. Does
fabricate mean to bend your own ribs or just deburr them. Or do you
have to mine the raw material, purchase a plasma furnace and extrude
your own angle (J/K).
I'm sure there will be alot of information at Oshkosh on this.
I'm most excited to see this new jet pack they are going to debut on
Tuesday at 9:00am. Anybody have some insider info on this?
Let's face it, we all need a jet pack. I can see it now, people texting
while flying their jet pack.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:49:09 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule
I'm thinking it's a bit different. I'm thinking that whereas
so many of our parts are currently prefabricated with the kit,
that they will want to see more actual part fabrication on
behalf of the builders. There really aren't that many of
the standard critical parts that we ourselves fabricated,
so what I think it is, is that the 51% rule still applies,
but they'll want increased documentation, and will want to
require that the builder actually fabricate or have a hand
in fabricating 20% of the parts, and do 20% of the assembly
of the kit too.
It does seem that this would be a big positive IMHO. Personally
I think that an experimental models safety record probably has
something to do with how much the builder actually participates
in the build...as they know the plane better, and care more for
their blood, sweat, and tears...all of which I know I shed on
my kit. :)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
AirMike wrote:
>
> If I interpret it correctly, it looks like the FAA is proposing to go
> to a 20% rule - where the manufacturer and assembly shop do 80% and
> the builder does a minimum of 20%. The intent seems to be that the
> builder is then minimally capable of doing maintenance with their
> repairman certificate.
>
> -------- OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09 Q/B Kit -
> exited cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
Message 17
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John,
Sounds like a hoot! But I want to get this done before OSH so I'll probably
just replace it.
The cover is the thin, light grey cover, purchased from Vans. I think it
may be from Avery.
Thinking this through and discussing it at length, I see two options: paint
the wings, or put some kind of insulation inside the cover. Neither one
thrills me.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 7:06 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Window Trouble
Dave, since you are classifying your existing pilots rear side window as
Salvage, have you considered making a positive compound curve of the
opposite pane, using an IR lamp (at proper distance) and having an assistant
use a handheld temperature gun to monitor threshold temperature as you
approach flexibility? Tap Plastics can advise on the process (which they
use for forming). You should be able to recreate the opposite force and
return the distortion to a "Near" virgin state.
The experiment would be valuable to the rest of us before we all learn of
Sli-Pruf during removal.
Whose cover did you use, what cloth material and what color created this
challenge?
John Cox
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 10:00 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Window Trouble
Last week we bought a canopy cover from Van's. We used it in Eastern Oregon
a few days later, and when the plane got back to Watsonville, we found the
left rear window had gotten hot enough to distort pretty severly. Bummer.
In the picture, the reflection of the hangar in the door window is how it
should look. The back window is toasted.
I know that the polished wings sometimes reflect back towards the fuselage,
but I had no idea that the heat could be so intense. I think the cover may
have helped trap the heat, but I don't have any proof. The factory seems to
think it would have been worse without it. They talked about a polished
RV-4 that melted its canopy once. But ours has been outside for almost a
year now in some pretty hot, sunny climates without any issues, until the
cover went on.
As a bit of trivia, I just checked and found that the upper wing surface aft
of the spar is slightly concave, unlike an RV-6 we have in the hangar, which
is convex. With the flaps fully retracted, the concavity is more
pronounced. Now if I could just harness all that solar-collecting power...
Now I get to see just how easy that Sil-Pruf comes off.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
That's what I thought too...that perhaps the kits would be
sent with a few more uncompleted parts or something to qualify
them under new rules. Although the old kits would be grandfathered
from what we've heard before. So maybe we have to do a few
more ribs, or cut more brackets...or heck, even do some welding
or something? Not sure, but my guess is that a full QB kit
would NOT qualify anymore if it weren't grandfathered.
Now, what you and I can do, Scott, is fabricate our own
Jet packs.....if we fabricate it ourselves, shouldn't
we still be eligible for slapping an N-number on it under
the experimental amateur built rules? :)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> I agree with that assessment Tim.
> Didn't the FAA already come out and say that Van's kits are basically
> one of the standards the new rules will be written too?
> And if that is the case, I don't feel like I made 20% of the parts in
> the kit even though it was a slow-build.
> That sounds like another rule that will be left to interpretation. Does
> fabricate mean to bend your own ribs or just deburr them. Or do you
> have to mine the raw material, purchase a plasma furnace and extrude
> your own angle (J/K).
> I'm sure there will be alot of information at Oshkosh on this.
>
> I'm most excited to see this new jet pack they are going to debut on
> Tuesday at 9:00am. Anybody have some insider info on this?
> Let's face it, we all need a jet pack. I can see it now, people texting
> while flying their jet pack.
>
> Scott Schmidt
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
Message 19
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Here is what I will be using for a cover. These are really high quality and
I have had one for my sailplane for years.
http://www.jaxida.dk/welcome.htm
John G.
From: Dave@AirCraftersLLC.comTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: RV10-L
ist: Window TroubleDate: Thu=2C 17 Jul 2008 10:27:01 -0700
John=2C
Sounds like a hoot! But I want to get this done before OSH so I'll probabl
y just replace it.
The cover is the thin=2C light grey cover=2C purchased from Vans. I think
it may be from Avery.
Thinking this through and discussing it at length=2C I see two options: pa
int the wings=2C or put some kind of insulation inside the cover. Neither
one thrills me.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville=2C CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of John CoxSent: Wednesday=2C July 16=2C 2008 7:06
PMTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: RV10-List: Window Trouble
Dave=2C since you are classifying your existing pilots rear side window as
Salvage=2C have you considered making a positive compound curve of the oppo
site pane=2C using an IR lamp (at proper distance) and having an assistant
use a handheld temperature gun to monitor threshold temperature as you appr
oach flexibility? Tap Plastics can advise on the process (which they use f
or forming). You should be able to recreate the opposite force and return
the distortion to a "Near" virgin state.
The experiment would be valuable to the rest of us before we all learn of S
li-Pruf during removal.
Whose cover did you use=2C what cloth material and what color created this
challenge?
John Cox
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave SaylorSent: Wednesday=2C July 16=2C 2008 10
:00 AMTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RV10-List: Window Trouble
Last week we bought a canopy cover from Van's. We used it in Eastern Orego
n a few days later=2C and when the plane got back to Watsonville=2C we foun
d the left rear window had gotten hot enough to distort pretty severly. Bu
mmer.
In the picture=2C the reflection of the hangar in the door window is how it
should look. The back window is toasted.
I know that the polished wings sometimes reflect back towards the fuselage
=2C but I had no idea that the heat could be so intense. I think the cover
may have helped trap the heat=2C but I don't have any proof. The factory
seems to think it would have been worse without it. They talked about a po
lished RV-4 that melted its canopy once. But ours has been outside for alm
ost a year now in some pretty hot=2C sunny climates without any issues=2C u
ntil the cover went on.
As a bit of trivia=2C I just checked and found that the upper wing surface
aft of the spar is slightly concave=2C unlike an RV-6 we have in the hangar
=2C which is convex. With the flaps fully retracted=2C the concavity is mo
re pronounced. Now if I could just harness all that solar-collecting power
...
Now I get to see just how easy that Sil-Pruf comes off.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville=2C CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
>>There is also the piece of those extras we customize for our planes, the
air vents, access panels ...<<
All those extras count! There are lots of extra spaces in each section of
the tally sheet. If your work isn't on the list, you can add it and take
credit.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
Message 21
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| Subject: | FW: Experimental AB Policy |
_____
From: Earl Lawrence [mailto:elawrence@eaa.org]
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:45 PM
mikael.via@glasairaviation.com; Jeremy Monnett; dave@aircraftersllc.com
Cc: Joe Norris
Subject: Experimental AB Policy
All
Just to keep you all up to date on EAA direction I wanted to let you all
know that EAA will be opposing the 20% fabrication requirement in favor of a
simple majority portion of the tasks. EAA believes that there is just too
much debate and opinion as to what is fabrication and what is assembly, what
is the definition of the two etc. for builders to wade through all of this.
The sound bite is "A task is a task is a task."
There are many little issues that we will comment on but this is the only
big issue we are taking on at this point.
We do not want the discussion with the FAA to turn into a political battle
but rather focus on the fact that the rule does not call for a fixed number
of fabrication or assembly tasks it just calls for a major portion.
Keep in mind we are still developing our position but I though you would all
want to know that was the direction EAA is heading at this point.
Earl
Earl Lawrence EAA #265455
VP Industry and Regulatory Affairs
EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
(920) 426 6537
(920) 379 8510 cell
elawrence@eaa.org
www.eaa.org
See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 28 - August 3, 2008
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Who's Flying in to OSH, and on what days? |
C'mon Tim, keep posting updates......
I'm running out of OSH related things to read and may even have to resort to getting
some actual work accomplished today. :^)
I'm getting as anxious as everyone else is at the moment. I've sold my Cherokee
180 this week, so I'll be coming looking to buy all kinds of goodies now that
I have some cash in hand.
Thanks again for taking your time to get us all some great sites tomorrow.
bob
do not archive
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> Date: 2008/07/17 Thu AM 10:09:33 EST
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Who's Flying in to OSH, and on what days?
>
>
> Since I can't really concentrate on work anyway now that we're
> this close to OSH, I added the Flying RV-10's that we know
> will be arriving to the Campsite Chart.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/osh/2008_Campsites.html#RV10_OSH
>
> Now I'm just thrilled!! Randy's coming!
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Solid-state electrical system preso at OSH |
I will be presenting "Benefits of a modern, solid state electrical
system" on Monday, July 28 at 1:00 in forum 8 NATCA Pavilion at Oshkosh.
The presentation will discuss the reasoning and benefits of switching
from mechanical breakers and switches to solid-state technology. While I
will be talking a bit about the Vertical Power products, the
presentation is really aimed at discussing trends in the marketplace,
how the new technology is implemented (and balanced with tried and true
methods), and what to expect from this technology.
You can come by our booth in Hangar B for a demo and a free t-shirt!
Marc Ausman
Vertical Power, Inc.
317 Commercial St, Suite G-102
Albuquerque, NM 87102
(505) 715-6172
marc@VerticalPower.com
http://www.verticalpower.com
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
I think Pascal has hit the nail square ...... Y'all are trying to apply
logic and common sense to a document created by the FAA, who purposely
write their rules/regs vague enough so that they can apply THEIR
interpretation as needed for the situation at hand. They've already
said they don't have a problem with Van's kits. What they do have a
problem with is little factories churning out planes to order. Those
surely don't fit the image of owner-builder for educational purposes.
My 2 pennies
Linn
do not archive
pascal wrote:
> When I saw the 20% manufacturer piece I thought the same way Scott,
> but I do think cutting angle and shaping it for the fuselage and the
> bending of the skins and the fiberglass work!!, I pretty much grabbed
> the piece I was sent and "built" it to fit the aircraft as the way it
> was sent would never work for me. There is also the piece of those
> extras we customize for our planes, the air vents, access panels, in
> some cases Panels, like Fred Williams, etc.. when added all up I think
> the raw parts are "fabricated" to work and I don't see that fitting in
> the "assembly" component, so if not assembly than by default it must
> be "fabricated".
> That is my interpretation, but I agree when it comes to getting a
> Airworthiness and repairman's cert the FAA FSDO may see it a different
> way in their interpretation and in the end that is really the issue.
> Pascal
>
>
> *From:* Scott Schmidt <mailto:scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:26 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule
>
> I agree with that assessment Tim.
> Didn't the FAA already come out and say that Van's kits are basically
> one of the standards the new rules will be written too?
> And if that is the case, I don't feel like I made 20% of the parts in
> the kit even though it was a slow-build.
> That sounds like another rule that will be left to interpretation.
> Does fabricate mean to bend your own ribs or just deburr them. Or do
> you have to mine the raw material, purchase a plasma furnace and
> extrude your own angle (J/K).
> I'm sure there will be alot of information at Oshkosh on this.
>
> I'm most excited to see this new jet pack they are going to debut on
> Tuesday at 9:00am. Anybody have some insider info on this?
> Let's face it, we all need a jet pack. I can see it now, people
> texting while flying their jet pack.
>
> Scott Schmidt
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:49:09 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule
>
> <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
>
> I'm thinking it's a bit different. I'm thinking that whereas
> so many of our parts are currently prefabricated with the kit,
> that they will want to see more actual part fabrication on
> behalf of the builders. There really aren't that many of
> the standard critical parts that we ourselves fabricated,
> so what I think it is, is that the 51% rule still applies,
> but they'll want increased documentation, and will want to
> require that the builder actually fabricate or have a hand
> in fabricating 20% of the parts, and do 20% of the assembly
> of the kit too.
>
> It does seem that this would be a big positive IMHO. Personally
> I think that an experimental models safety record probably has
> something to do with how much the builder actually participates
> in the build...as they know the plane better, and care more for
> their blood, sweat, and tears...all of which I know I shed on
> my kit. :)
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> AirMike wrote:
> <mailto:Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>>
> >
> > If I interpret it correctly, it looks like the FAA is proposing to go
> > to a 20% rule - where the manufacturer and assembly shop do 80% and
> > the builder does a minimum of 20%. The intent seems to be that the
> > builder is then minimally capable of doing maintenance with their
> > repairman certificate.
> >
> > -------- OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09 Q/B Kit -
> > exited cabin top/door purgatory
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> >
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> --> http://forums.matronics.com
> -Matt
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> =========== *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
Not sure if this has been posted, but here's the link to the actual
draft documents and it tells you who to send comments to if you have
recommendations/corrections/comments. If you look at the checklist, I'm
not sure how you get 187 points when some of the things like "wing
struts" don't apply.
PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/draft_docs/display_docs/index.cfm?Doc_Type=Pubs
Dave Saylor wrote:
> >>There is also the piece of those extras we customize for our planes,
> the air vents, access panels ...<<
>
> All those extras count! There are lots of extra spaces in each
> section of the tally sheet. If your work isn't on the list, you can
> add it and take credit.
>
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters LLC
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA
> 831-722-9141
> 831-750-0284 CL
> www.AirCraftersLLC.com
> *
>
>
> *
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: BOSE (LEMO) headset jack in panel |
Well I guess like all things "it depends!" To use your analogy, If you are a VFR
pilot and only fly VFR, the need for steam gauge backup is kind of redundant
as looking out the window should be your backup. Same thing with jacks, are
you worried about the jacks failing or that you may bring the wrong headsets?
All the same signals are in the LEMO jacks, only in a different form factor. I'm
looking at a source for the male LEMO jacks and will make a few female RCA
to male LEMO adapters. Should be able to put these together for a LOT less than
the $100-$135 that Bose is asking--stay tuned. But then thier adapter includes
a battery case for power. If you just want to get RCA signal to LEMO signal,
its just wires.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
>
> I would reinforce the decision to also put in the RCA jacks as a back up.
> Kinda like a backup set of steam guages......
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
> Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193369#193369
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Who's Flying in to OSH, and on what days? |
Almost tempted to forgo my GAC and camp out at RV-10 Central. Oh well, I'll have
to stop by a few nights. Didn't get a chance to stop by last year.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
> C'mon Tim, keep posting updates......
>
> I'm running out of OSH related things to read and may even have to resort to
getting some actual work accomplished today. :^)
>
> I'm getting as anxious as everyone else is at the moment. I've sold my Cherokee
180 this week, so I'll be coming looking to buy all kinds of goodies now that
I have some cash in hand.
>
> Thanks again for taking your time to get us all some great sites tomorrow.
>
> bob
>
> do not archive
> >
> > From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> > Date: 2008/07/17 Thu AM 10:09:33 EST
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Who's Flying in to OSH, and on what days?
> >
> >
> > Since I can't really concentrate on work anyway now that we're
> > this close to OSH, I added the Flying RV-10's that we know
> > will be arriving to the Campsite Chart.
> >
> > http://www.myrv10.com/osh/2008_Campsites.html#RV10_OSH
> >
> > Now I'm just thrilled!! Randy's coming!
> >
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> > do not archive
> >
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: BOSE (LEMO) headset jack in panel |
William I think that's the kicker, you need a power supply if your using the headset
on standard RCA jacks. It is soooo nice just plugging in the panel powered
Bose headsets with that LEMO jack.
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 1:47:07 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: re: RV10-List: Re: BOSE (LEMO) headset jack in panel
Well I guess like all things "it depends!" To use your analogy, If you are a VFR
pilot and only fly VFR, the need for steam gauge backup is kind of redundant
as looking out the window should be your backup. Same thing with jacks, are
you worried about the jacks failing or that you may bring the wrong headsets?
All the same signals are in the LEMO jacks, only in a different form factor. I'm
looking at a source for the male LEMO jacks and will make a few female RCA
to male LEMO adapters. Should be able to put these together for a LOT less than
the $100-$135 that Bose is asking--stay tuned. But then thier adapter includes
a battery case for power. If you just want to get RCA signal to LEMO signal,
its just wires.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
>
> I would reinforce the decision to also put in the RCA jacks as a back up.
> Kinda like a backup set of steam guages......
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
> Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193369#193369
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Flying RV-10 Weight |
-10 List,
Is there a record of flying RV-10's weights anyplace on the web? Should I be 30#
over Max Gross weight before fluids or paint? Ok, ok, it's not that bad....
Robin
Well... it's getting weighed...
Do Not Archive
Message 30
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| Subject: | Flying RV-10 Weight |
I do not know of a complete listing, but mine was 1641 at certification time.
I think I may have added a few pounds since then. Waiting for our local EEA Chapters
scales to return before a do the final fighting weight.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 3:49 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Flying RV-10 Weight
-10 List,
Is there a record of flying RV-10's weights anyplace on the web? Should I be 30#
over Max Gross weight before fluids or paint? Ok, ok, it's not that bad....
Robin
Well... it's getting weighed...
Do Not Archive
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
And let us not forget that all the fiberglass parts are all bolt-on
perfect.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Olson<mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule
<Tim@myrv10.com<mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
I'm thinking it's a bit different. I'm thinking that whereas
so many of our parts are currently prefabricated with the kit,
that they will want to see more actual part fabrication on
behalf of the builders. There really aren't that many of
the standard critical parts that we ourselves fabricated,
so what I think it is, is that the 51% rule still applies,
but they'll want increased documentation, and will want to
require that the builder actually fabricate or have a hand
in fabricating 20% of the parts, and do 20% of the assembly
of the kit too.
It does seem that this would be a big positive IMHO. Personally
I think that an experimental models safety record probably has
something to do with how much the builder actually participates
in the build...as they know the plane better, and care more for
their blood, sweat, and tears...all of which I know I shed on
my kit. :)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
AirMike wrote:
<Mikeabel@Pacbell.net<mailto:Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>>
>
> If I interpret it correctly, it looks like the FAA is proposing to
go
> to a 20% rule - where the manufacturer and assembly shop do 80% and
> the builder does a minimum of 20%. The intent seems to be that the
> builder is then minimally capable of doing maintenance with their
> repairman certificate.
>
> -------- OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09 Q/B Kit -
> exited cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193366#193366<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193366#193366>
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List<http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?RV10-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: BOSE (LEMO) headset jack in panel |
I installed the Bose (Lemo) connectors and fell into a trap with all the bl
ack wires. From memory:- there are four or more-pairs emitting from the
connector and each pair has a black wire. These are not common. You must u
se a meter and identify each wire.
-
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying
--- On Thu, 7/17/08, Rick Sked <ricksked@embarqmail.com> wrote:
From: Rick Sked <ricksked@embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: BOSE (LEMO) headset jack in panel
William I think that's the kicker, you need a power supply if your using
the headset on standard RCA jacks. It is soooo nice just plugging in the pa
nel
powered Bose headsets with that LEMO jack.
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 1:47:07 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: re: RV10-List: Re: BOSE (LEMO) headset jack in panel
<wcurtis@nerv10.com>
Well I guess like all things "it depends!" To use your analogy, If
you are a VFR pilot and only fly VFR, the need for steam gauge backup is ki
nd
of redundant as looking out the window should be your backup. Same thing w
ith
jacks, are you worried about the jacks failing or that you may bring the wr
ong
headsets?
All the same signals are in the LEMO jacks, only in a different form factor
.
I'm looking at a source for the male LEMO jacks and will make a few female
RCA to male LEMO adapters. Should be able to put these together for a LOT
less
than the $100-$135 that Bose is asking--stay tuned. But then thier adapter
includes a battery case for power. If you just want to get RCA signal to L
EMO
signal, its just wires.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
<Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
>
> I would reinforce the decision to also put in the RCA jacks as a back up.
> Kinda like a backup set of steam guages......
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
> Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193369#193369
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Flying RV-10 Weight |
Checkoway has a W&B database on his site. Looks like he has 11 RV-10's in it at
the moment. I recommend that anyone the is flying and hasn't entered their
weight into this to do so. It's a great resource and the more data the better.
http://www.rvproject.com/wab/
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 4:49 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Flying RV-10 Weight
-10 List,
Is there a record of flying RV-10's weights anyplace on the web? Should
I be 30# over Max Gross weight before fluids or paint? Ok, ok, it's not that
bad....
Robin
Well... it's getting weighed...
Do Not Archive
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: BOSE (LEMO) headset jack in panel |
And they are very TEENY TINY WIRES.....bust out the reading glasses on thes
e puppies!!! Not that I don't bust them out anyhow! Given your advanced age
Bill, how did you ever see them?=C2- ;)
Rick Sked
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill DeRouchey" <billderou@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 4:20:11 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: BOSE (LEMO) headset jack in panel
I installed the Bose (Lemo) connectors and fell into a trap with all the bl
ack wires. From memory:=C2- there are four or more=C2-pairs emitting fr
om the connector and each pair has a black wire. These are not common. You
must use a meter and identify each wire.
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying
--- On Thu, 7/17/08, Rick Sked <ricksked@embarqmail.com> wrote:
From: Rick Sked <ricksked@embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: BOSE (LEMO) headset jack in panel
William I think that's the kicker, you need a power supply if your using
the headset on standard RCA jacks. It is soooo nice just plugging in the pa
nel
powered Bose headsets with that LEMO jack.
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Curtis" <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 1:47:07 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: re: RV10-List: Re: BOSE (LEMO) headset jack in panel
<wcurtis@nerv10.com>
Well I guess like all things "it depends!" To use your analogy, If
you are a VFR pilot and only fly VFR, the need for steam gauge backup is ki
nd
of redundant as looking out the window should be your backup. Same thing w
ith
jacks, are you worried about the jacks failing or that you may bring the wr
ong
headsets?
All the same signals are in the LEMO jacks, only in a different form factor
.
I'm looking at a source for the male LEMO jacks and will make a few female
RCA to male LEMO adapters. Should be able to put these together for a LOT
less
than the $100-$135 that Bose is asking--stay tuned. But then thier adapter
includes a battery case for power. If you just want to get RCA signal to L
EMO
signal, its just wires.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
<Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
>
> I would reinforce the decision to also put in the RCA jacks as a back up.
> Kinda like a backup set of steam guages......
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
> Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193369#193369
>
>
>
>
>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule |
Com'on Linn!!...Day frum duh Guvment!!! Day here ta hepp ya!!
Rick...no last name
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "linn Walters" <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 11:13:58 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule
I think Pascal has hit the nail square ...... Y'all are trying to apply log
ic and common sense to a document created by the FAA, who purposely write t
heir rules/regs vague enough so that they can apply THEIR interpretation as
needed for the situation at hand.=C2- They've already said they don't ha
ve a problem with Van's kits.=C2- What they do have a problem with is lit
tle factories churning out planes to order.=C2- Those surely don't fit th
e image of owner-builder for educational purposes.
My 2 pennies
Linn
do not archive
pascal wrote:
When I saw the 20% manufacturer piece I thought the same way Scott, but I d
o think cutting angle and shaping it for the fuselage and the bending of th
e skins and the fiberglass work!!, I pretty much grabbed the piece I was se
nt and "built" it to fit the aircraft as the way it was sent would never wo
rk for me. There is also the piece of those extras we customize for our pla
nes, the air vents, access panels, in some cases Panels, like Fred Williams
, etc.. when added all up I think the raw parts are "fabricated" to work an
d I don=99t see that fitting in the "assembly" component, so if not a
ssembly than by default it must be "fabricated".
That is my interpretation, but I agree when it comes to getting a Airworthi
ness and repairman's cert the FAA FSDO may see it a different way in their
interpretation and in the end that is really the issue.
Pascal
From: Scott Schmidt
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule
I agree with that assessment Tim.
Didn't the FAA already come out and say that Van's kits are basically one o
f the standards the new rules will be written too?
And if that is the case, I don't feel like I made 20% of the parts in the k
it even though it was a slow-build.=C2-
That sounds like another rule that will be left to interpretation.=C2- Do
es fabricate mean to bend your own ribs or just deburr them.=C2- Or do yo
u have to mine the raw material, purchase a plasma furnace and extrude your
own angle (J/K).=C2-
I'm sure there will be alot of information at Oshkosh on this.=C2-
I'm most excited to see this new jet pack they are going to debut on Tuesda
y at 9:00am.=C2- Anybody have some insider info on this?
Let's face it, we all need a jet pack.=C2- I can see it now, people texti
ng while flying their jet pack.=C2-
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:49:09 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: FAA Issued Letter On The 51% Rule
I'm thinking it's a bit different.=C2- I'm thinking that whereas
so many of our parts are currently prefabricated with the kit,
that they will want to see more actual part fabrication on
behalf of the builders.=C2- There really aren't that many of
the standard critical parts that we ourselves fabricated,
so what I think it is, is that the 51% rule still applies,
but they'll want increased documentation, and will want to
require that the builder actually fabricate or have a hand
in fabricating 20% of the parts, and do 20% of the assembly
of the kit too.
It does seem that this would be a big positive IMHO.=C2- Personally
I think that an experimental models safety record probably has
something to do with how much the builder actually participates
in the build...as they know the plane better, and care more for
their blood, sweat, and tears...all of which I know I shed on
my kit. :)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
AirMike wrote:
>
> If I interpret it correctly, it looks like the FAA is proposing to go
> to a 20% rule - where the manufacturer and assembly shop do 80% and
> the builder does a minimum of 20%. The intent seems to be that the
> builder is then minimally capable of doing maintenance with their
> repairman certificate.
>
> -------- OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09 Q/B Kit -
> exited cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List --> http://forums.matronics.
com -Matt
href= "http://www.matronics.com/contribution" > http://www.matronics.com/
contribution =========== href="http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href
="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http:/
/www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====
=======================
==
Message 36
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| Subject: | Flying RV-10 Weight |
Michael, that is what I was looking for.
Thanks,
Robin
Do Not Archive
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: Flying RV-10 Weight |
One thing about the numbers there....there are some that look kind of
funky. Here's a tip for some of you, as I have first-hand knowledge
that not everyone understands this point....
When you weigh the plane, MAKE SURE you level the plane first.
Side to side, across the door openings, and fore/aft along the
longerons just under the doors. IF YOU SIMPLY PUT IT ON JACKS
AND WEIGH IT, you will drastically affect your weight and show
a very aft CG with much less nose weight. When weighing the
RV-10, you will find that you will likely need to put the rear
scales up on blocks about 2" high for them to bring the plane
to a water-level level position for weighing.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
> Checkoway has a W&B database on his site. Looks like he has 11
> RV-10's in it at the moment. I recommend that anyone the is flying
> and hasn't entered their weight into this to do so. It's a great
> resource and the more data the better.
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/wab/
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin
> Marks Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 4:49 PM To:
> rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Flying RV-10 Weight
>
> <robin1@mrmoisture.com>
>
> -10 List, Is there a record of flying RV-10's weights anyplace on the
> web? Should I be 30# over Max Gross weight before fluids or paint?
> Ok, ok, it's not that bad....
>
> Robin Well... it's getting weighed... Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Flying RV-10 Weight |
Tim's right. With a digital level you can easily get within .2 degrees.
Anything more than that will make the CG range too inaccurate to use.
Even with the mains on blocks, you will probably have to let some air out of
the nosewheel. No, you don't have to account for the air...
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flying RV-10 Weight
One thing about the numbers there....there are some that look kind of funky.
Here's a tip for some of you, as I have first-hand knowledge that not
everyone understands this point....
When you weigh the plane, MAKE SURE you level the plane first.
Side to side, across the door openings, and fore/aft along the longerons
just under the doors. IF YOU SIMPLY PUT IT ON JACKS AND WEIGH IT, you will
drastically affect your weight and show a very aft CG with much less nose
weight. When weighing the RV-10, you will find that you will likely need to
put the rear scales up on blocks about 2" high for them to bring the plane
to a water-level level position for weighing.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
> Checkoway has a W&B database on his site. Looks like he has 11
> RV-10's in it at the moment. I recommend that anyone the is flying
> and hasn't entered their weight into this to do so. It's a great
> resource and the more data the better.
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/wab/
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 4:49 PM To:
> rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Flying RV-10 Weight
>
> <robin1@mrmoisture.com>
>
> -10 List, Is there a record of flying RV-10's weights anyplace on the
> web? Should I be 30# over Max Gross weight before fluids or paint?
> Ok, ok, it's not that bad....
>
> Robin Well... it's getting weighed... Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Flying RV-10 Weight |
Tom
I would think it would be better to weight the plane on its wheels not on
jacks. But you are so right you must be perfectly level in both directions
to get an accurate weight,
I have weighed numerous planes from the c-5 to Cessna 140 the principles are
the same.
I came up to the same conclusion that a lot of the data in the list was not
as accurate as it should be.
When I do my 10 I will even calc the % of MAC (mean aero dynamic cord).
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flying RV-10 Weight
One thing about the numbers there....there are some that look kind of
funky. Here's a tip for some of you, as I have first-hand knowledge
that not everyone understands this point....
When you weigh the plane, MAKE SURE you level the plane first.
Side to side, across the door openings, and fore/aft along the
longerons just under the doors. IF YOU SIMPLY PUT IT ON JACKS
AND WEIGH IT, you will drastically affect your weight and show
a very aft CG with much less nose weight. When weighing the
RV-10, you will find that you will likely need to put the rear
scales up on blocks about 2" high for them to bring the plane
to a water-level level position for weighing.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
> Checkoway has a W&B database on his site. Looks like he has 11
> RV-10's in it at the moment. I recommend that anyone the is flying
> and hasn't entered their weight into this to do so. It's a great
> resource and the more data the better.
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/wab/
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin
> Marks Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 4:49 PM To:
> rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Flying RV-10 Weight
>
> <robin1@mrmoisture.com>
>
> -10 List, Is there a record of flying RV-10's weights anyplace on the
> web? Should I be 30# over Max Gross weight before fluids or paint?
> Ok, ok, it's not that bad....
>
> Robin Well... it's getting weighed... Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
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