Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:04 AM - N104BS is painted! (rv10builder)
2. 05:22 AM - Re: N104BS is painted! (Lew Gallagher)
3. 03:43 PM - toner in windshield fairing (Lew Gallagher)
4. 04:27 PM - Re: toner in windshield fairing (Tim Olson)
5. 04:57 PM - Re: toner in windshield fairing (Marcus Cooper)
6. 05:01 PM - Re: toner in windshield fairing (pascal)
7. 05:18 PM - Re: toner in windshield fairing (ricksked@embarqmail.com)
8. 05:27 PM - Re: toner in windshield fairing (Tim Olson)
9. 05:57 PM - Re: toner in windshield fairing (ricksked@embarqmail.com)
10. 07:52 PM - Frickin Perfect Rod Ends (Les Kearney)
11. 07:58 PM - Re: toner in windshield fairing (Bill Schlatterer)
12. 08:45 PM - Re: toner in windshield fairing (Lew Gallagher)
Message 1
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| Subject: | N104BS is painted! |
Thanks Vern! (et al.)
I would love to take credit for the design however I got it from
aircraftpaintschemes.com.
Brian
Vernon Smith wrote:
> Brian,
>
> My wife & I both agree your paint scheme is the coolest one we have
> seen! Nice Job.
>
> Vern (#324 finishing)
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:43:49 -0500
> > From: rv10builder@bellsouth.net
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RV10-List: N104BS is painted!
> >
> > Just brought home my airplane today from GLO Custom. I'm really happy
> > with the quality of their work!
> >
> > Brian Sutherland
> > Nashville, TN
> > N104BS
> > 59.5 hours (and no, I haven't completed the SB yet! >:o )
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. Help
> protect your kids.
> <http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_family_safety_072008>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: N104BS is painted! |
Hey Brian,
I am in the middle of paint prep (i.e. filling all the rivets in with Evercoat
Rage Extreme in the whole tail section, as per William and others) so I am EXTREMELY
interested and impressed with your paint job!
Here's a thought:
In painting cars with urethane basecoat/clearcoat, I understand that when they
first started this in the manufacturing business, they made the mistake of clearing
too long after the base was applied -- hence you would see 2-3 yr old cars
looking like a snake shedding skin as the clear peeled off. I've only painted
solid color cars with base/clear and the instructions say you have a 40 minute
to couple hours window to get the clear on so that it bonds to the color
coat.
I love the protection and "wet" look of clearcoat, but I would be concerned with
doing multi-color schemes (which requires drying enough to tape off and repaint)
then clearing the whole thing because of the delayed bonding thing. It could
be done if you cleared each section as you went, but what a chore! I think
most are going with Concept or other acrylic enamels that wouldn't have that
issue.
I don't know what you used, but I've been thinking about this for awhile and thought
I'd air it out.
Thanks for the inspiration!
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196141#196141
Message 3
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| Subject: | toner in windshield fairing |
OK, Tim and others.
I really like the idea of coloring the lower windshield fairing resin black so
that it looks good from inside. BUT, I've taken to heart those who frown on skimming
over fiberglass with bondo type materials.
Now then, I've got a good friend who is in charge of toner for Lexmark and I thought
I remembered him saying that most of toner is styrene, i.e. polymer, plastic,
whatever that stuff is. So today I called him and he verified that only
less than 10% of toner is carbon black. So now I'm wondering how that affects
the bonding quality of fiberglass resin mixed with toner ...? Apparently,
Tim, you've had no ill effects and you said it doesn't take much toner to turn
it black, but I was just wondering if anyone has thought about this, and if there's
a source of pure carbon black?
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196210#196210
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: toner in windshield fairing |
Nope, no effect found. Also, you don't want to use any bondo
like products over the fiberglass...you want to use something
like West System epoxy to do the fiberglassing, and then use
west system fairing filler and epoxy to do the filling above.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Lew Gallagher wrote:
> <lewgall@charter.net>
>
> OK, Tim and others.
>
> I really like the idea of coloring the lower windshield fairing resin
> black so that it looks good from inside. BUT, I've taken to heart
> those who frown on skimming over fiberglass with bondo type
> materials.
>
> Now then, I've got a good friend who is in charge of toner for
> Lexmark and I thought I remembered him saying that most of toner is
> styrene, i.e. polymer, plastic, whatever that stuff is. So today I
> called him and he verified that only less than 10% of toner is carbon
> black. So now I'm wondering how that affects the bonding quality of
> fiberglass resin mixed with toner ...? Apparently, Tim, you've had
> no ill effects and you said it doesn't take much toner to turn it
> black, but I was just wondering if anyone has thought about this, and
> if there's a source of pure carbon black?
>
> Later, - Lew
>
> -------- non-pilot crazy about building NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
> Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196210#196210
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | toner in windshield fairing |
Lew,
No help for finding pure carbon black, but FWIW I've got almost 3 years
with the toner/resin mix and no ill effects on the canopy.
May sound silly, but how about grinding some charcoal mortar/pestle style?
Marcus
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 5:40 PM
Subject: RV10-List: toner in windshield fairing
OK, Tim and others.
I really like the idea of coloring the lower windshield fairing resin black
so that it looks good from inside. BUT, I've taken to heart those who frown
on skimming over fiberglass with bondo type materials.
Now then, I've got a good friend who is in charge of toner for Lexmark and I
thought I remembered him saying that most of toner is styrene, i.e. polymer,
plastic, whatever that stuff is. So today I called him and he verified that
only less than 10% of toner is carbon black. So now I'm wondering how that
affects the bonding quality of fiberglass resin mixed with toner ...?
Apparently, Tim, you've had no ill effects and you said it doesn't take much
toner to turn it black, but I was just wondering if anyone has thought about
this, and if there's a source of pure carbon black?
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196210#196210
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: toner in windshield fairing |
west system fairing filler
Is that something like Microballoons and epoxy?
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: toner in windshield fairing
>
> Nope, no effect found. Also, you don't want to use any bondo
> like products over the fiberglass...you want to use something
> like West System epoxy to do the fiberglassing, and then use
> west system fairing filler and epoxy to do the filling above.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Lew Gallagher wrote:
>> <lewgall@charter.net>
>>
>> OK, Tim and others.
>>
>> I really like the idea of coloring the lower windshield fairing resin
>> black so that it looks good from inside. BUT, I've taken to heart
>> those who frown on skimming over fiberglass with bondo type
>> materials.
>>
>> Now then, I've got a good friend who is in charge of toner for
>> Lexmark and I thought I remembered him saying that most of toner is
>> styrene, i.e. polymer, plastic, whatever that stuff is. So today I
>> called him and he verified that only less than 10% of toner is carbon
>> black. So now I'm wondering how that affects the bonding quality of
>> fiberglass resin mixed with toner ...? Apparently, Tim, you've had
>> no ill effects and you said it doesn't take much toner to turn it
>> black, but I was just wondering if anyone has thought about this, and
>> if there's a source of pure carbon black?
>>
>> Later, - Lew
>>
>> -------- non-pilot crazy about building NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
>> Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196210#196210
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: toner in windshield fairing |
Yes
Rick. Sked
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: "pascal" <pascal@rv10builder.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: toner in windshield fairing
west system fairing filler
Is that something like Microballoons and epoxy?
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: toner in windshield fairing
>
> Nope, no effect found. Also, you don't want to use any bondo
> like products over the fiberglass...you want to use something
> like West System epoxy to do the fiberglassing, and then use
> west system fairing filler and epoxy to do the filling above.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Lew Gallagher wrote:
>> <lewgall@charter.net>
>>
>> OK, Tim and others.
>>
>> I really like the idea of coloring the lower windshield fairing resin
>> black so that it looks good from inside. BUT, I've taken to heart
>> those who frown on skimming over fiberglass with bondo type
>> materials.
>>
>> Now then, I've got a good friend who is in charge of toner for
>> Lexmark and I thought I remembered him saying that most of toner is
>> styrene, i.e. polymer, plastic, whatever that stuff is. So today I
>> called him and he verified that only less than 10% of toner is carbon
>> black. So now I'm wondering how that affects the bonding quality of
>> fiberglass resin mixed with toner ...? Apparently, Tim, you've had
>> no ill effects and you said it doesn't take much toner to turn it
>> black, but I was just wondering if anyone has thought about this, and
>> if there's a source of pure carbon black?
>>
>> Later, - Lew
>>
>> -------- non-pilot crazy about building NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
>> Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196210#196210
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: toner in windshield fairing |
They have a variety:
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/options.html
http://www.westsystem.com/
Go to the product guide
410 Microlight is just one of the things you'll use tons of.
Great stuff, sands well. The guy who helped paint was impressed
as heck with it.
406 Colloidal silica is another one you'll use, along with one
other that I can't remember right now.
You'll go through cans and cans of 410 by the time you're done
with the project, and gallons of epoxy. People have no idea
how much you can spend on epoxy supplies to finish the kit...it's
hundreds of dollars.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
pascal wrote:
>
> west system fairing filler
> Is that something like Microballoons and epoxy?
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 4:24 PM
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: toner in windshield fairing
>
>>
>> Nope, no effect found. Also, you don't want to use any bondo
>> like products over the fiberglass...you want to use something
>> like West System epoxy to do the fiberglassing, and then use
>> west system fairing filler and epoxy to do the filling above.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Lew Gallagher wrote:
>>> <lewgall@charter.net>
>>>
>>> OK, Tim and others.
>>>
>>> I really like the idea of coloring the lower windshield fairing resin
>>> black so that it looks good from inside. BUT, I've taken to heart
>>> those who frown on skimming over fiberglass with bondo type
>>> materials.
>>>
>>> Now then, I've got a good friend who is in charge of toner for
>>> Lexmark and I thought I remembered him saying that most of toner is
>>> styrene, i.e. polymer, plastic, whatever that stuff is. So today I
>>> called him and he verified that only less than 10% of toner is carbon
>>> black. So now I'm wondering how that affects the bonding quality of
>>> fiberglass resin mixed with toner ...? Apparently, Tim, you've had
>>> no ill effects and you said it doesn't take much toner to turn it
>>> black, but I was just wondering if anyone has thought about this, and
>>> if there's a source of pure carbon black?
>>>
>>> Later, - Lew
>>>
>>> -------- non-pilot crazy about building NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
>>> Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196210#196210
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: toner in windshield fairing |
Gallons??? Comon. Tim... Maybe 4 quarts!! Did you glue yours together? All smiles!
Rick Sked
40185
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: toner in windshield fairing
They have a variety:
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/options.html
http://www.westsystem.com/
Go to the product guide
410 Microlight is just one of the things you'll use tons of.
Great stuff, sands well. The guy who helped paint was impressed
as heck with it.
406 Colloidal silica is another one you'll use, along with one
other that I can't remember right now.
You'll go through cans and cans of 410 by the time you're done
with the project, and gallons of epoxy. People have no idea
how much you can spend on epoxy supplies to finish the kit...it's
hundreds of dollars.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
pascal wrote:
>
> west system fairing filler
> Is that something like Microballoons and epoxy?
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 4:24 PM
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: toner in windshield fairing
>
>>
>> Nope, no effect found. Also, you don't want to use any bondo
>> like products over the fiberglass...you want to use something
>> like West System epoxy to do the fiberglassing, and then use
>> west system fairing filler and epoxy to do the filling above.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Lew Gallagher wrote:
>>> <lewgall@charter.net>
>>>
>>> OK, Tim and others.
>>>
>>> I really like the idea of coloring the lower windshield fairing resin
>>> black so that it looks good from inside. BUT, I've taken to heart
>>> those who frown on skimming over fiberglass with bondo type
>>> materials.
>>>
>>> Now then, I've got a good friend who is in charge of toner for
>>> Lexmark and I thought I remembered him saying that most of toner is
>>> styrene, i.e. polymer, plastic, whatever that stuff is. So today I
>>> called him and he verified that only less than 10% of toner is carbon
>>> black. So now I'm wondering how that affects the bonding quality of
>>> fiberglass resin mixed with toner ...? Apparently, Tim, you've had
>>> no ill effects and you said it doesn't take much toner to turn it
>>> black, but I was just wondering if anyone has thought about this, and
>>> if there's a source of pure carbon black?
>>>
>>> Later, - Lew
>>>
>>> -------- non-pilot crazy about building NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
>>> Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196210#196210
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Frickin Perfect Rod Ends |
Hi All
After returning from KOSH and seeing what great RV10s are out there, I was
energized to start building again.To that end, I decided to see if I could
turn my newly received rod end replacement parts into something usable.
Having some "spare" parts, I did a little riveting experimentation before
trying the real things. Pix P1010016.JPG shows what happens when you try to
put a AN470AD4-11 rivet in a piece of tubing without the rod end installed.
I tried this several times and always got the same result. It appears that
the rod end provides enough structure that the rivets don't bend too much
inside the rod end tube.
As I had already ruined a some installed rod ends, I used these parts to
practise the techniques suggested by Carl and others until I was certain I
could get good results.
Here is what I did to get 4 perfect rod ends:
* First I made a V channel holder (see P1010015.JPG) as suggested by
Carl. This I aligned on my drill press so that the drilled would always go
through the centerline of a tube and clamped in place.
* Drill the #40 pilot hole with the rod end in place. Care must be
taken to ensure that the rod end does not "wander" out of the tube when
drilling. Prevent this by holding the rod end in place by hand when
drilling. I also clamped the tube in the V channel to ensure it did not
move.
* Insert a #40 drill bit in the drilled hole (see P1010019.JPG) and
then drill the next hole. Re-drill this hole with the #30 bit then rotate
and re-drill the first hole #30 - use a #30 drill bit in the first hole to
keep everything aligned.
* After a bit of experimenting, I found that if I used a "fence" (See
P100024.JPG) to help align parts, I could easily get great results using the
back riveting method to install the ANAD4704-11 rivets.
* P1010023.JPG shows how I aligned the parts for riveting.
* I used several very short, light bursts on the rivet gun to get the
results shown in pix P1010026.JPG. The shop heads are round and meet spec
dead on. When riveting keep an eye on how the shop head on the rivet is
moving - you may have to slightly rotate the tube etc if to keep the the
shop head square to the back rivet plate.
Many thanks to those who passed on advice as to how to do these rod ends.
The instructions in the plans are not very specific as to how to do these
rivets. If you mess up - especially in riveting, you will be going back to
the House of Vans for extra parts.
I have a couple of suggestions for those who are doing this for the first
time. DO NOT cut the 21 11/32" rods from the stock. The stock rod is a few
inches longer than required and so there is a little "forgiveness" available
if you have a problem. I suggest installing a rod end first and then cutting
the rod to the required length. You can waste about 5" before you need to
order a new rod. As well, when cutting the rod, cut it about 1/16" too long
and then use a disk sander with a table to square the end down to the exact
length required.
This step seems quite simple in the plans but is deceptively difficult if
you are doing it for the first time. For me, I found it impossible to drill
out the -11 rivets without buggering the piece.
Cheers
Les "some assembly required" Kearney
#40643
Message 11
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| Subject: | toner in windshield fairing |
Lew, why not just try the stuff that is made for it. I doubt they would be
selling it if it made any significant difference in strength. This is the
link to the product at ACS. I bought some but have not used it yet.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/epoxyPigments.php
Hope this helps.
Bill S
7a Finishing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 5:40 PM
Subject: RV10-List: toner in windshield fairing
OK, Tim and others.
I really like the idea of coloring the lower windshield fairing resin black
so that it looks good from inside. BUT, I've taken to heart those who frown
on skimming over fiberglass with bondo type materials.
Now then, I've got a good friend who is in charge of toner for Lexmark and I
thought I remembered him saying that most of toner is styrene, i.e. polymer,
plastic, whatever that stuff is. So today I called him and he verified that
only less than 10% of toner is carbon black. So now I'm wondering how that
affects the bonding quality of fiberglass resin mixed with toner ...?
Apparently, Tim, you've had no ill effects and you said it doesn't take much
toner to turn it black, but I was just wondering if anyone has thought about
this, and if there's a source of pure carbon black?
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196210#196210
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: toner in windshield fairing |
Well, there ya go.
Thanks, Bill !!
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196234#196234
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