Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:47 AM - Re: Flap alignment (Lew Gallagher)
2. 04:08 AM - MT Prop Governor Follow-up Report (Wayne Edgerton)
3. 06:05 AM - Re: OSH gathering (Sam Marlow)
4. 06:35 AM - Re: Re: Flap alignment (Rene Felker)
5. 06:37 AM - Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Tim Olson)
6. 07:15 AM - Re: Re: Leak Proofing the Fuel Sender (Kelly McMullen)
7. 07:31 AM - Re: Flap alignment (Jesse Saint)
8. 07:41 AM - Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (John Gonzalez)
9. 08:04 AM - Re: OSH gathering (Don McDonald)
10. 08:33 AM - Re: N104BS is painted! (Robin Marks)
11. 08:41 AM - Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (John Cox)
12. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: Leak Proofing the Fuel Sender (John Cox)
13. 10:03 AM - Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (linn Walters)
14. 10:46 AM - Re: Flap alignment (Scott Schmidt)
15. 11:14 AM - Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Les Kearney)
16. 12:10 PM - Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (linn Walters)
17. 01:34 PM - Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Robert Wright)
18. 02:31 PM - Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (pascal)
19. 02:47 PM - PIREP: Tungsten Bucking Bar (Douglas, Brian S)
20. 03:02 PM - Re: Flap alignment (Lew Gallagher)
21. 03:38 PM - Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Kelly McMullen)
22. 04:15 PM - Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (John Cox)
23. 04:54 PM - Center console (Les Kearney)
24. 05:39 PM - Re: Center console (Bob Leffler)
25. 06:11 PM - Re: Center console (Les Kearney)
26. 06:48 PM - SMA Diesel (Dawson-Townsend,Timothy)
27. 07:22 PM - Re: SMA Diesel (John Cox)
28. 08:25 PM - Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Tim Olson)
29. 08:26 PM - Re: Re: Flap alignment (Tim Olson)
30. 08:29 PM - Re: new prroducts (David McNeill)
31. 09:06 PM - Re: SMA Diesel (Dave Leikam)
32. 09:34 PM - Re: SMA Diesel (Kelly McMullen)
33. 09:53 PM - OSH RV-10 Nose Wheel Pants & Fairing (Robin Marks)
34. 10:00 PM - Las Vegas Area 10 Builders (John Cumins)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Flap alignment |
Thanks Rene',
So -3 degrees it is? Just where in the heck do they tell you that?! And the "stops"
are just when the leading edge of the flap bumps the spar? I think that
leaves a fair amount of inaccuracy -- I like the -3 degrees better. It shouldn't
be too hard to make a quick jig.
This seems like a fairly critical setting and I'm surprised I couldn't find it
addressed in the plans.
We'll probably give Van's a call, but they're 3 hrs. behind us and we want to get
this nailed so we can get the wings back off today.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196377#196377
Message 2
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| Subject: | MT Prop Governor Follow-up Report |
I have the same issue with the MT prop governor, it was surging 100 to
200rpm in cruise, and I pulled it off yesterday to send back to MT. A
little bit of a hassle when you have the fairings installed. I asked
them about exchange and I got the impression that they might be willing
to do that but if you send them your current governor, when you receive
it back and install it, it will be set at the same max RPM as when you
removed it, so you don't have to do all of the adjustments that was
required initially.
Wayne Edgerton
N602WT 175 hours
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: OSH gathering |
I thought everything went great, the timing worked for me. I enjoyed
putting faces with names! Thanks for a great cookout.
Sam Marlow
#40157
gary wrote:
>
> Just got back from OSH and while it is fresh on my and your minds, we would
> like some feedback.
>
> We started serving around 6pm (or tried to) when we had the group
> gatherings, it was suggested that later would be better for some. Comments?
>
> Are there other changes which would make things better next year?
>
> We have a surplus in the kitty again this year which will allow us to pick
> up an extra camp site like we did this year, Thanks all of you.
>
> Any other comments?
>
> A special thanks to Michael Sausen for dropping off a mower for us to use
> and for the carport tent and the large grill. These made life better for
> all.
>
> Gary Specketer
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Flap alignment |
The plans have you bringing the flap up to the stop. I do not remember if
they ref 3 degrees or if I got that number form the list. Either way, I
used my digital level to determine the 3 degrees. Measured the angle of the
top skin and made sure flap was 3 degrees reflex. When I originally set the
aileron and wing tip, I had the wings in the vertical stands and just pulled
the flap up to the stop, clamped the flap and aileron together and then went
to work on the wing tips.
I am also using the flap positioning system, but you know I have not checked
to see if the first stop is really 0 degrees, I think I may the next time I
am at the hanger.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 4:44 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Flap alignment
Thanks Rene',
So -3 degrees it is? Just where in the heck do they tell you that?! And
the "stops" are just when the leading edge of the flap bumps the spar? I
think that leaves a fair amount of inaccuracy -- I like the -3 degrees
better. It shouldn't be too hard to make a quick jig.
This seems like a fairly critical setting and I'm surprised I couldn't find
it addressed in the plans.
We'll probably give Van's a call, but they're 3 hrs. behind us and we want
to get this nailed so we can get the wings back off today.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196377#196377
Message 5
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| Subject: | Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
Was talking to another RV-10 pilot at OSH just before I left and
he told me he peeked at some of the RV-10's that flew in and looked
for asymmetrical trim tab deployment. As we've discussed in
the past, the tabs should be both neutral at the same time, but
when they go up, only one goes up (the other does move up a
tiny amount), and when they go down, they both should go down.
You should never have a situation where one goes up and one
goes down.
Having only one tab move up may sound crazy, but that's how
it's supposed to work, and keep in mind that this isn't
strange at all....many planes and even the other RV's
are built with only one trim tab on one side. But, what makes
our case unique is that if the builder screws up the rigging,
they can end up with the 2 tabs in opposite deflections.....and
if you follow the plans, you will likely have a small misalignment.
These observations were not made by me, but were brought
to my attention:
So what was observed was that N921AC has some asymmetrical trim,
then another unpainted RV-10 had a worse condition of
asymmetrical trim. But the one that took the prize was one
of the build-for-customer RV-10's that was at the show....
from what I was told, that RV-10 had one trim tab that was
approx. 10 degrees up, while the other tab was approx. 10 deg
down. NOW, the interesting thing was, the person also
noticed that it appeared that this particular RV-10 may
have had a little compression deformity of that rear
bulkhead noted in the SB.
Perhaps next year at OSH we should have a gathering to
specifically look at some noted areas of every RV-10
and self-group-check for any potential safety issues?
This year I just looked at all the pretty planes.
Pretty good turnout overall.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Leak Proofing the Fuel Sender |
Same reason you don't use steel wool on aluminum. It can initiate
corrosion. Yes, steel scrapers will scratch the aluminum and can
generate all the issues of deep scratches. Phenolic scrapers, or
scrap plexiglass ground into a scraper works pretty well.
I don't disagree with Dan using what he did for that purpose(getting
to skins apart), IF you recognize that close inspection will be
required and you may have to scrap a piece if it gets too scratched.
On way of reducing risk is to select stainless steel putty knife, to
minimize the corrosion aspect.
Of course John is giving you the airline point of view, where tanks
frequently need attention, and costs are much higher, as are risks,
along with the maximum level of regulation/oversight. Different
standards, different needs...but the physics of steel and aluminum
remain the same.
On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 9:58 PM, John Ackerman <johnag5b@cableone.net> wrote:
>
> John, what is the reason given for no metallic scrapers? Crack initiation?
> Accidental cuts and gouges?
> What do you do if you need something very thin as Dan did (see below)?
> John Ackerman 40458
>
>
> On Aug 3, 2008, at 5:25 PM, John Cox wrote:
>
>>
>> Not to attract contrarian comments but the use of metallic scrapers on
>> aluminum might be best avoided. We regularly complete such tasks with the
>> use of MEK and plastic scrapers (and barrier gloves). Razor blades and putty
>> knifes are a quick way to be pointed to the door on air carrier aircraft.
>> Your family members deserve no less.
>>
>>> . Removing the side with the cork gasket was much easier, since the cork
>>> is soft and a putty knife can be slipped in between the pieces and the cover
>>> plate pried away and popped loose without much difficulty. The ProSeal only
>>> side was quite a bit more difficult to break loose, !
>>> and required sliding a single edge razor blade between the bonded
>>> surfaces most of the way around the circumference of the cover plate.
>>> However, when it came loose it was somewhat easier to clean up using a
>>> razor blade as a scraper combined with MEK.
>>>
>>> So the decision to use a gasket or not really comes down to ease of
>>> future maintenance. Either way keeps the fuel in the tank.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> -Dan Masys
>>> RV-10 N104LD back from OSH
>>> RV-7A N747DL
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Flap alignment |
Lew,
The best way I have seen to get the flaps correctly rigged is to have
them installed on the plane and to raise them to the point that the
bottom of the flap is flush with the bottom of the fuselage. Also,
both flaps should reach this point at the same time. If it possible
for one to reach this point early and put extra strain on the flap rod
while the motor reaches full up. If this happens, when you drop the
flaps the plane will want to roll because one flap will deploy more
than the other. BTW, you will have to file down the end of the flap
to remove any clearance issues with the side of the fuselage, and
don't forget that there will be paint added, so leave a little room
for paint, while not leaving a big gaping hole.
The length on all of the pushrods can vary a little based on different
components in the system. On the flaps, if you don't have them
drilled and bolted with the exact dimensions as the plans call for,
this can change the length of the pushrod. It's best to get it close
and then install it and adjust for full retraction and deployment of
the flaps and then snug up the jam nuts and mark which one is right
and left for reinstallation after the wings go back on, unless (of
course) you are rigging them with the final wing installation.
Also something I have seen in the Aileron rigging. It is not
uncommon, from what I have seen, to have the pushrod that connects to
the aileron itself to have clearance issues with the aileron attach
hinge when in full down. Make sure you don't have that issue when
rigging.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Aug 3, 2008, at 9:47 PM, Lew Gallagher wrote:
>
> OK, we aligned the flaps, ailerons, wingtips today. Obviously
> everything starts with the flaps in the raised position. But there
> are adjustments on the flaps, so how do you know what the correct
> raised position is? The instructions for length of the connecting
> rods are a start, but how do you know when it's perfect?
>
> Not being a pilot, I just stuck a straight edge on the upper surface
> of the wing and adjusted the flaps to be on that same plane to get
> started. But now at home on the computer, I thought I'd better
> check since I thought I remembered reading about slight up angle on
> trailing edge for both ailerons for speed, etc.
>
> I've searched the archives and Tim's site, and sure enough, I found
> a reference by Tim to a -3 degree in the up position of the flaps.
>
> Can someone confirm this for us? With the flaps/ailerons on the
> same plane as the upper wing surface, I have both trailing ends of
> the wingtips about 1/4 inch above the ailerons. I'm ready to
> reshape the wingtip ends tomorrow, but they would be close to being
> right if there is "up" built into the flap/aileron position.
>
> The wingtips are also slightly less than 1/4 inch too short -- as
> opposed to the early ones that were too long. Is that a problem?
> It wouldn't take much to add resin/flox to lengthen them a bit.
> Heck, everything else is coming together so fine, I might as well
> make that right too -- I just need to know what "right" is!
>
> Later, - Lew
>
> --------
> non-pilot
> crazy about building
> NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
> Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196346#196346
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
Did anyone get the tail number of the unpainter 10 with the compression mar
ks near the bulkhead so that the owner could be informed of what was happen
ing in case they are not aware of it on their own or not on this list?
John G. > Date: Mon=2C 4 Aug 2008 08:34:22 -0500> From: Tim@MyRV10.com> To:
rv10-list@matronics.com> Subject: RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OS
king to another RV-10 pilot at OSH just before I left and> he told me he pe
eked at some of the RV-10's that flew in and looked> for asymmetrical trim
tab deployment. As we've discussed in> the past=2C the tabs should be both
neutral at the same time=2C but> when they go up=2C only one goes up (the o
ther does move up a> tiny amount)=2C and when they go down=2C they both sho
uld go down.> You should never have a situation where one goes up and one>
goes down.> > Having only one tab move up may sound crazy=2C but that's how
> it's supposed to work=2C and keep in mind that this isn't> strange at all
....many planes and even the other RV's> are built with only one trim tab o
n one side. But=2C what makes> our case unique is that if the builder screw
s up the rigging=2C> they can end up with the 2 tabs in opposite deflection
s.....and> if you follow the plans=2C you will likely have a small misalign
ment.> > These observations were not made by me=2C but were brought> to my
attention:> So what was observed was that N921AC has some asymmetrical trim
=2C> then another unpainted RV-10 had a worse condition of> asymmetrical tr
im. But the one that took the prize was one> of the build-for-customer RV-1
0's that was at the show....> from what I was told=2C that RV-10 had one tr
im tab that was> approx. 10 degrees up=2C while the other tab was approx. 1
0 deg> down. NOW=2C the interesting thing was=2C the person also> noticed t
hat it appeared that this particular RV-10 may> have had a little compressi
on deformity of that rear> bulkhead noted in the SB.> > Perhaps next year a
t OSH we should have a gathering to> specifically look at some noted areas
of every RV-10> and self-group-check for any potential safety issues?> This
year I just looked at all the pretty planes.> Pretty good turnout overall.
========================> >
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: OSH gathering |
Unfortunately, we were unable to get by and see you guys.- We did manage
to drive through on Sunday, but couldn't remember the-location.... that b
eing said, how about a nice large flag with RV 10 HHQ on it?--Did manag
e to go to Van's dinner, but there were simply tooooo many-RV'ers there t
o actually find anybody..... we were a couple of months from having the 10
flying, so next year our 10 will be there.
Don & Kim McDonald
#40636- Finishing the Finishing--
--- On Sun, 8/3/08, gary <speckter@comcast.net> wrote:
From: gary <speckter@comcast.net>
Subject: RV10-List: OSH gathering
<speckter@comcast.net>
Just got back from OSH and while it is fresh on my and your minds, we would
like some feedback.
We started serving around 6pm (or tried to) when we had the group
gatherings, it was suggested that later would be better for some. Comments
?
Are there other changes which would make things better next year?
We have a surplus in the kitty again this year which will allow us to pick
up an extra camp site like we did this year, Thanks all of you.
Any other comments?
A special thanks to Michael Sausen for dropping off a mower for us to use
and for the carport tent and the large grill. These made life better for
all.
Gary Specketer
=0A=0A=0A
Message 10
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| Subject: | N104BS is painted! |
Sharp paint scheme. I really like the wheel pants.
Robin
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv10builder
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 3:44 PM
Subject: RV10-List: N104BS is painted!
Just brought home my airplane today from GLO Custom. I'm really happy
with the quality of their work!
Brian Sutherland
Nashville, TN
N104BS
59.5 hours (and no, I haven't completed the SB yet! >:o )
Message 11
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| Subject: | Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
I second the comment of a pretty good turn-out and a good group of
product representation entries.
Kelly would be a good candidate as one of those potential observers.
Each plane should be able to OPT out of the review if desired. As an
EAA Tech, I would be happy to assist the team.
Keeping rates low is a result of frequent Pilot Proficiency and regular
maintenance. Knowing what to look for, how to correct it and pending
issues beginning to arise saves everyone a lot of money and a loss of
friends. By Opting out we can avoid some of the non-productive
criticism that does not advance safety "One Iota". I spent this year
getting training on becoming a Warbird Judge and how the scoring system
works at OSH.
The plastic plane crowd has publically conceded that the pursuit of
million dollar kits has given the bulk of the market to VANS and the
RV-10 is becoming the pre-eminent X-Cntry cruiser.
John Cox
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 6:34 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
Was talking to another RV-10 pilot at OSH just before I left and
he told me he peeked at some of the RV-10's that flew in and looked
for asymmetrical trim tab deployment. As we've discussed in
the past, the tabs should be both neutral at the same time, but
when they go up, only one goes up (the other does move up a
tiny amount), and when they go down, they both should go down.
You should never have a situation where one goes up and one
goes down.
Having only one tab move up may sound crazy, but that's how
it's supposed to work, and keep in mind that this isn't
strange at all....many planes and even the other RV's
are built with only one trim tab on one side. But, what makes
our case unique is that if the builder screws up the rigging,
they can end up with the 2 tabs in opposite deflections.....and
if you follow the plans, you will likely have a small misalignment.
These observations were not made by me, but were brought
to my attention:
So what was observed was that N921AC has some asymmetrical trim,
then another unpainted RV-10 had a worse condition of
asymmetrical trim. But the one that took the prize was one
of the build-for-customer RV-10's that was at the show....
from what I was told, that RV-10 had one trim tab that was
approx. 10 degrees up, while the other tab was approx. 10 deg
down. NOW, the interesting thing was, the person also
noticed that it appeared that this particular RV-10 may
have had a little compression deformity of that rear
bulkhead noted in the SB.
Perhaps next year at OSH we should have a gathering to
specifically look at some noted areas of every RV-10
and self-group-check for any potential safety issues?
This year I just looked at all the pretty planes.
Pretty good turnout overall.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Leak Proofing the Fuel Sender |
Let me add that we sneak Skin Knives into some applications (also a terminable
offence). Blending of scratches requires a 10:1 or 15:1 taper (depending on the
SRM = Structural Repair Manual). You all have written one to effect repairs,
haven't you? it is amazing how deep a scratch goes when force is used. Remember
that the Alclad pure coating is not very thick. Five percent on each side
for a total of 10 percent coating. So 0.032" means 0.0016" on each surface.
On the RV-12 using 0.020 skin it is even more critical. Just hand force used
on a tool can permanently stretch the skin - forever.
"Skin knives" and "thread taps" are two ways to get quickly busted. We use them,
on the sly and with high degree of situational awareness and desire for job
security.
John - back to GRAVES tonight after two weeks with real aviators.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Leak Proofing the Fuel Sender
Same reason you don't use steel wool on aluminum. It can initiate
corrosion. Yes, steel scrapers will scratch the aluminum and can
generate all the issues of deep scratches. Phenolic scrapers, or
scrap plexiglass ground into a scraper works pretty well.
I don't disagree with Dan using what he did for that purpose(getting
to skins apart), IF you recognize that close inspection will be
required and you may have to scrap a piece if it gets too scratched.
On way of reducing risk is to select stainless steel putty knife, to
minimize the corrosion aspect.
Of course John is giving you the airline point of view, where tanks
frequently need attention, and costs are much higher, as are risks,
along with the maximum level of regulation/oversight. Different
standards, different needs...but the physics of steel and aluminum
remain the same.
On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 9:58 PM, John Ackerman <johnag5b@cableone.net> wrote:
>
> John, what is the reason given for no metallic scrapers? Crack initiation?
> Accidental cuts and gouges?
> What do you do if you need something very thin as Dan did (see below)?
> John Ackerman 40458
>
>
> On Aug 3, 2008, at 5:25 PM, John Cox wrote:
>
>>
>> Not to attract contrarian comments but the use of metallic scrapers on
>> aluminum might be best avoided. We regularly complete such tasks with the
>> use of MEK and plastic scrapers (and barrier gloves). Razor blades and putty
>> knifes are a quick way to be pointed to the door on air carrier aircraft.
>> Your family members deserve no less.
>>
>>> . Removing the side with the cork gasket was much easier, since the cork
>>> is soft and a putty knife can be slipped in between the pieces and the cover
>>> plate pried away and popped loose without much difficulty. The ProSeal only
>>> side was quite a bit more difficult to break loose, !
>>> and required sliding a single edge razor blade between the bonded
>>> surfaces most of the way around the circumference of the cover plate.
>>> However, when it came loose it was somewhat easier to clean up using a
>>> razor blade as a scraper combined with MEK.
>>>
>>> So the decision to use a gasket or not really comes down to ease of
>>> future maintenance. Either way keeps the fuel in the tank.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> -Dan Masys
>>> RV-10 N104LD back from OSH
>>> RV-7A N747DL
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
John Cox wrote:
>
> I second the comment of a pretty good turn-out and a good group of
> product representation entries.
>
> Kelly would be a good candidate as one of those potential observers.
> Each plane should be able to OPT out of the review if desired.
Why (and how) would they do that??? Kinda defeats the purpose of
increasing your knowledge (I didn't know that!!! :-P ) and everyone is
going to see the same thing anyway. This group isn't full of sharks
waiting for the chance to bite a head off, and if the 'anomaly' is so
bad ..... shouldn't the owner be informed????
> As an EAA Tech, I would be happy to assist the team.
>
> Keeping rates low is a result of frequent Pilot Proficiency and regular
> maintenance. Knowing what to look for, how to correct it and pending
> issues beginning to arise saves everyone a lot of money and a loss of
> friends. By Opting out we can avoid some of the non-productive
> criticism that does not advance safety "One Iota". I spent this year
> getting training on becoming a Warbird Judge and how the scoring system
> works at OSH.
>
We'll always get some flames here and there ...... but as a group
function I don't think that'll happen. The information could be
presented on a written sheet rather than having a public hanging.
> The plastic plane crowd has publically conceded that the pursuit of
> million dollar kits has given the bulk of the market to VANS and the
> RV-10 is becoming the pre-eminent X-Cntry cruiser.
>
As it should be. My favorite is the Grumman line ..... and the RV-10 is
everything the Grumman AA-5s want to be. Plus, we can customize our
birds and they can't!!! :-)
Our Grumman Gang is a great group to get info from (for the Grummans),
and the experience level is high ..... hence the info is excellent. We
still have some biting emails, but if there are sensitive owners out
there, they just consider the source and move on.
The more we take care of our brethren, the better we get as a group, and
that will result in better insurance rates and may even result in some
flight cost savings. I don't mind taking flak .... builders are an
opinionated lot ..... but I'd hate to miss that little nugget of info
that helps me out.
Linn .... my opinion
do not archive
> John Cox
> Do not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 6:34 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
>
>
> Was talking to another RV-10 pilot at OSH just before I left and
> he told me he peeked at some of the RV-10's that flew in and looked
> for asymmetrical trim tab deployment. As we've discussed in
> the past, the tabs should be both neutral at the same time, but
> when they go up, only one goes up (the other does move up a
> tiny amount), and when they go down, they both should go down.
> You should never have a situation where one goes up and one
> goes down.
>
> Having only one tab move up may sound crazy, but that's how
> it's supposed to work, and keep in mind that this isn't
> strange at all....many planes and even the other RV's
> are built with only one trim tab on one side. But, what makes
> our case unique is that if the builder screws up the rigging,
> they can end up with the 2 tabs in opposite deflections.....and
> if you follow the plans, you will likely have a small misalignment.
>
> These observations were not made by me, but were brought
> to my attention:
> So what was observed was that N921AC has some asymmetrical trim,
> then another unpainted RV-10 had a worse condition of
> asymmetrical trim. But the one that took the prize was one
> of the build-for-customer RV-10's that was at the show....
> from what I was told, that RV-10 had one trim tab that was
> approx. 10 degrees up, while the other tab was approx. 10 deg
> down. NOW, the interesting thing was, the person also
> noticed that it appeared that this particular RV-10 may
> have had a little compression deformity of that rear
> bulkhead noted in the SB.
>
> Perhaps next year at OSH we should have a gathering to
> specifically look at some noted areas of every RV-10
> and self-group-check for any potential safety issues?
> This year I just looked at all the pretty planes.
> Pretty good turnout overall.
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Flap alignment |
Here is a picture of Van's flap in the up position.
http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/1100252_iPQ2t#53383949_nGRvz-A-LB
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 7:28:44 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap alignment
Lew,
The best way I have seen to get the flaps correctly rigged is to have
them installed on the plane and to raise them to the point that the
bottom of the flap is flush with the bottom of the fuselage. Also,
both flaps should reach this point at the same time. If it possible
for one to reach this point early and put extra strain on the flap rod
while the motor reaches full up. If this happens, when you drop the
flaps the plane will want to roll because one flap will deploy more
than the other. BTW, you will have to file down the end of the flap
to remove any clearance issues with the side of the fuselage, and
don't forget that there will be paint added, so leave a little room
for paint, while not leaving a big gaping hole.
The length on all of the pushrods can vary a little based on different
components in the system. On the flaps, if you don't have them
drilled and bolted with the exact dimensions as the plans call for,
this can change the length of the pushrod. It's best to get it close
and then install it and adjust for full retraction and deployment of
the flaps and then snug up the jam nuts and mark which one is right
and left for reinstallation after the wings go back on, unless (of
course) you are rigging them with the final wing installation.
Also something I have seen in the Aileron rigging. It is not
uncommon, from what I have seen, to have the pushrod that connects to
the aileron itself to have clearance issues with the aileron attach
hinge when in full down. Make sure you don't have that issue when
rigging.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Aug 3, 2008, at 9:47 PM, Lew Gallagher wrote:
>
> OK, we aligned the flaps, ailerons, wingtips today. Obviously
> everything starts with the flaps in the raised position. But there
> are adjustments on the flaps, so how do you know what the correct
> raised position is? The instructions for length of the connecting
> rods are a start, but how do you know when it's perfect?
>
> Not being a pilot, I just stuck a straight edge on the upper surface
> of the wing and adjusted the flaps to be on that same plane to get
> started. But now at home on the computer, I thought I'd better
> check since I thought I remembered reading about slight up angle on
> trailing edge for both ailerons for speed, etc.
>
> I've searched the archives and Tim's site, and sure enough, I found
> a reference by Tim to a -3 degree in the up position of the flaps.
>
> Can someone confirm this for us? With the flaps/ailerons on the
> same plane as the upper wing surface, I have both trailing ends of
> the wingtips about 1/4 inch above the ailerons. I'm ready to
> reshape the wingtip ends tomorrow, but they would be close to being
> right if there is "up" built into the flap/aileron position.
>
> The wingtips are also slightly less than 1/4 inch too short -- as
> opposed to the early ones that were too long. Is that a problem?
> It wouldn't take much to add resin/flox to lengthen them a bit.
> Heck, everything else is coming together so fine, I might as well
> make that right too -- I just need to know what "right" is!
>
> Later, - Lew
>
> --------
> non-pilot
> crazy about building
> NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
> Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196346#196346
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
Linn
Your post about "opting out" is a good segway into a topic that I wanted to
raise with the group.
Over my build process, this list has been my support group in a very real
sense. There are few builders where I am so I have had to learn as a go
along and call on the list when I run into problems. To that end, I find it
easier and easier to admit my mistakes and get help.
While at KOSH, I spoke with another builder who recognized my name from my
"Oh sh*t" posts. As a builder he was only lurking as he found the list a bit
intimidating. As a group, I believe that we need to encourage more builders
to raise their issues and problems so that they can move forward in the
knowledge that they are not alone in turning aluminum into scrap. If you
read the list over time, it is easy to get the impression that not many
"mistakes" are raised and therefore everyone is doing everything exactly
right.
While on the surface, having a "group inspection" of a/c at KOSH may sound
like a good idea, I am not sure I would appreciate an uninvited critique of
my workmanship. I suspect the process would all too easily evolve into a
beauty contest. I understand that anyone can look at any a/c at KOSH and
form their own opinions. This is fair dinkum. However, I don't think a
"group inspection" would be such a great idea as it might offend the mere
mortals on the list who are not building a show plane.
Perhaps a better approach would be to identify a few recognized
knowledgeable builders who can offer to review a/c one on one if asked. This
respects the individual builders while making a very worthwhile service
available in an informal and non-threatening manner.
Just my $0.02
Cheers
Les "some assembly required" Kearney
#40643
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
Sent: August-04-08 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
John Cox wrote:
>
> I second the comment of a pretty good turn-out and a good group of
> product representation entries.
>
> Kelly would be a good candidate as one of those potential observers.
> Each plane should be able to OPT out of the review if desired.
Why (and how) would they do that??? Kinda defeats the purpose of
increasing your knowledge (I didn't know that!!! :-P ) and everyone is
going to see the same thing anyway. This group isn't full of sharks
waiting for the chance to bite a head off, and if the 'anomaly' is so
bad ..... shouldn't the owner be informed????
> As an EAA Tech, I would be happy to assist the team.
>
> Keeping rates low is a result of frequent Pilot Proficiency and regular
> maintenance. Knowing what to look for, how to correct it and pending
> issues beginning to arise saves everyone a lot of money and a loss of
> friends. By Opting out we can avoid some of the non-productive
> criticism that does not advance safety "One Iota". I spent this year
> getting training on becoming a Warbird Judge and how the scoring system
> works at OSH.
>
We'll always get some flames here and there ...... but as a group
function I don't think that'll happen. The information could be
presented on a written sheet rather than having a public hanging.
> The plastic plane crowd has publically conceded that the pursuit of
> million dollar kits has given the bulk of the market to VANS and the
> RV-10 is becoming the pre-eminent X-Cntry cruiser.
>
As it should be. My favorite is the Grumman line ..... and the RV-10 is
everything the Grumman AA-5s want to be. Plus, we can customize our
birds and they can't!!! :-)
Our Grumman Gang is a great group to get info from (for the Grummans),
and the experience level is high ..... hence the info is excellent. We
still have some biting emails, but if there are sensitive owners out
there, they just consider the source and move on.
The more we take care of our brethren, the better we get as a group, and
that will result in better insurance rates and may even result in some
flight cost savings. I don't mind taking flak .... builders are an
opinionated lot ..... but I'd hate to miss that little nugget of info
that helps me out.
Linn .... my opinion
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at |
OSH
Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Linn
>
> Your post about "opting out" is a good segway into a topic that I wanted to
> raise with the group.
>
> Over my build process, this list has been my support group in a very real
> sense. There are few builders where I am so I have had to learn as a go
> along and call on the list when I run into problems. To that end, I find it
> easier and easier to admit my mistakes and get help.
>
They say confession is good for the soul!
> While at KOSH, I spoke with another builder who recognized my name from my
> "Oh sh*t" posts. As a builder he was only lurking as he found the list a bit
> intimidating. As a group, I believe that we need to encourage more builders
> to raise their issues and problems so that they can move forward in the
> knowledge that they are not alone in turning aluminum into scrap. If you
> read the list over time, it is easy to get the impression that not many
> "mistakes" are raised and therefore everyone is doing everything exactly
> right.
>
We all make mistakes. It's how we handle them that makes the
difference. I'll admit to welding up the elevator horn holes twice
because I wasn't satisfied. I ended up drilling the holes for the
pushrod starting with 1/8" and working my way up to the #12 .... in
three steps. Much, much easier although it took much, much longer. I'm
now a satisfied camper.
> While on the surface, having a "group inspection" of a/c at KOSH may sound
> like a good idea, I am not sure I would appreciate an uninvited critique of
> my workmanship. I suspect the process would all too easily evolve into a
> beauty contest. I understand that anyone can look at any a/c at KOSH and
> form their own opinions. This is fair dinkum. However, I don't think a
> "group inspection" would be such a great idea as it might offend the mere
> mortals on the list who are not building a show plane.
>
I see your point. There are no perfect airplanes out there .... whether
we build them or a factory does. When I built my Pitts, it was rough
compared to those who have built many. I was (and still am) really
proud of my accomplishment. About the only thing I'm learning about
with the RV-10 is the riveting .... and I'm getting the same education
everyone else is. However, I don't get anal about a 'slightly
imperfect' rivet. I'm not building my airplane for awards .... I'm
going to fly the dickens out of it. My RV-10 isn't going to sit in the
hangar like antique cars sit in garages.
It's the consensus of a group that I look for. Like I said, we're an
opinionated group, and the lone pair of eyes can do more 'damage' to
your building reputation by running his mouth. He may be ignorant of
the truth. The group opinion should be far more constructive. It's the
experience of those looking that's important.
> Perhaps a better approach would be to identify a few recognized
> knowledgeable builders who can offer to review a/c one on one if asked. This
> respects the individual builders while making a very worthwhile service
> available in an informal and non-threatening manner.
>
Another good point. However, when do you see the recognized
knowledgeable builders without a group??? ;-)
> Just my $0.02
>
And I appreciate your comments. I find this to be a really great group,
and don't want 'fear of criticism' to cause anyone not to participate.
Linn ..... will be part of the flying group someday
> Cheers
>
> Les "some assembly required" Kearney
> #40643
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
how about everybody come to my airport and inspect my airplane before the a
irworthiness inspector does?- That'd be great!=0Ai should be careful for
what I wish!=0ARob Wright=0A#392=0Awindshield fairing and spinner=0A=0A=0A
=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Les Kearney <kearney@shaw.ca>=0ATo:
rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, August 4, 2008 2:10:42 PM=0ASubject
: Constructive Feedback was RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH=0A=0A
=0A=0AYour post about "opting out" is a good segway into a topic that I wan
ted to=0Araise with the group.=0A=0AOver my build process, this list has be
en my support group in a very real=0Asense. There are few builders where I
am so I have had to learn as a go=0Aalong and call on the list when I run i
nto problems. To that end, I find it=0Aeasier and easier to admit my mistak
es and get help. =0A=0AWhile at KOSH, I spoke with another builder who reco
gnized my name from my=0A"Oh sh*t" posts. As a builder he was only lurking
as he found the list a bit=0Aintimidating. As a group, I believe that we ne
ed to encourage more builders=0Ato raise their issues and problems so that
they can move forward in the=0Aknowledge that they are not alone in turning
aluminum into scrap. If you=0Aread the list over time, it is easy to get t
he impression that not many=0A"mistakes" are raised and therefore everyone
is doing everything exactly=0Aright. =0A=0AWhile on the surface, having a "
group inspection" of a/c at KOSH may sound=0Alike a good idea, I am not sur
e I would appreciate an uninvited critique of=0Amy workmanship. I suspect t
he process would all too easily evolve into a=0Abeauty contest. I understan
d that anyone can look at any a/c at KOSH and=0Aform their own opinions. Th
is is fair dinkum. However, I don't think a=0A"group inspection" would be s
uch a great idea as it might offend the mere=0Amortals on the list who are
not building a show plane.=0A=0APerhaps a better approach would be to ident
ify a few recognized=0Aknowledgeable builders who can offer to review a/c o
ne on one if asked. This=0Arespects the individual builders while making a
very worthwhile service=0Aavailable in an informal and non-threatening mann
er.=0A=0AJust my $0.02=0A=0ACheers=0A=0ALes "some assembly required" Kearne
y=0A#40643=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of l
inn Walters=0ASent: August-04-08 10:58 AM=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0AS
ubject: Re: RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH=0A=0A--> RV10-List me
ssage posted by: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>=0A=0AJohn Cox wro
>=0A>=0A> I second the comment of a pretty good turn-out and a good group o
f=0A> product representation entries.=0A>=0A> Kelly would be a good candida
te as one of those potential observers.=0A> Each plane should be able to OP
T out of the review if desired.=0AWhy (and how) would they do that???- Ki
nda defeats the purpose of =0Aincreasing your knowledge (I didn't know that
!!! :-P ) and everyone is =0Agoing to see the same thing anyway.- This gr
oup isn't full of sharks =0Awaiting for the chance to bite a head off, and
if the 'anomaly' is so =0Abad ..... shouldn't the owner be informed????=0A>
- As an EAA Tech, I would be happy to assist the team.=0A>=0A> Keeping ra
tes low is a result of frequent Pilot Proficiency and regular=0A> maintenan
ce.- Knowing what to look for, how to correct it and pending=0A> issues b
eginning to arise saves everyone a lot of money and a loss of=0A> friends.
- By Opting out we can avoid some of the non-productive=0A> criticism tha
t does not advance safety "One Iota".- I spent this year=0A> getting trai
ning on becoming a Warbird Judge and how the scoring system=0A> works at OS
H.=0A>- =0AWe'll always get some flames here and there ...... but as a gr
oup =0Afunction I don't think that'll happen.- The information could be
=0Apresented on a written sheet rather than having a public hanging.=0A> Th
e plastic plane crowd has publically conceded that the pursuit of=0A> milli
on dollar kits has given the bulk of the market to VANS and the=0A> RV-10 i
s becoming the pre-eminent X-Cntry cruiser.=0A>- =0AAs it should be.- M
y favorite is the Grumman line ..... and the RV-10 is =0Aeverything the Gru
mman AA-5s want to be.- Plus, we can customize our =0Abirds and they can'
t!!! :-)=0A=0AOur Grumman Gang is a great group to get info from (for the G
rummans), =0Aand the experience level is high ..... hence the info is excel
lent.- We =0Astill have some biting emails, but if there are sensitive ow
ners out =0Athere, they just consider the source and move on.=0A=0AThe more
we take care of our brethren, the better we get as a group, and =0Athat wi
ll result in better insurance rates and may even result in some =0Aflight c
ost savings.- I don't mind taking flak .... builders are an =0Aopinionate
d lot ..... but I'd hate to miss that little nugget of info =0Athat helps m
===================0A=0A=0A
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
Les;
My problem is I read too much about the building process so I don't recall
where I read this but the group inspection idea is one I read and always
thought was a great idea. . I have had many come by and look for all my
shortfalls, my TC is a very knowledgeable RV pilot and I always dread what
he will say about my building, I listen carefully to every comment, I ask
questions and in the end am very happy for the feedback I received which
usually is far more optimistic than I held my building skills to be.
The important thing to remember is that we can take advice or leave it but
one needs to consider what is raised and seriously determine if it applies.
The good thing about a group (and this one is a great one) is that one can
say they messed up and get feedback, which I usually take as positive and
not harsh, Tim and a few others have made "gotchas" as a link to show how it
is common for us to have issues with steps and sections. Section 29 was a
breeze, the fuel tank sealing was a breeze, not because I am good, but
because I was given a gotcha to avoid and hence was able to take the plans
and adjust it to others issues so I would not have the same issue.
If one looks at all the great sites out there Tim's, Deems, William Curtis,
etc they have had many issues and they mention them and what they needed to
do to repair the issue, I have looked at all these sites, Mike Rowe's and
initially John Jensen to see what they did so I can work off of that as a
starting point.
Basically I think there is quite a lot out there to see what others have
done before us and sitting in front of a computer I have more courage to ask
a question and run than have someone look me in the face and say "you have
got to be kidding.." which I jest because usually the responses come back
quickly and allows one to think through options to repair the issue.
Pascal
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:10 AM
Subject: Constructive Feedback was RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at
OSH
>
> Linn
>
> Your post about "opting out" is a good segway into a topic that I wanted
> to
> raise with the group.
>
> Over my build process, this list has been my support group in a very real
> sense. There are few builders where I am so I have had to learn as a go
> along and call on the list when I run into problems. To that end, I find
> it
> easier and easier to admit my mistakes and get help.
>
> While at KOSH, I spoke with another builder who recognized my name from my
> "Oh sh*t" posts. As a builder he was only lurking as he found the list a
> bit
> intimidating. As a group, I believe that we need to encourage more
> builders
> to raise their issues and problems so that they can move forward in the
> knowledge that they are not alone in turning aluminum into scrap. If you
> read the list over time, it is easy to get the impression that not many
> "mistakes" are raised and therefore everyone is doing everything exactly
> right.
>
> While on the surface, having a "group inspection" of a/c at KOSH may sound
> like a good idea, I am not sure I would appreciate an uninvited critique
> of
> my workmanship. I suspect the process would all too easily evolve into a
> beauty contest. I understand that anyone can look at any a/c at KOSH and
> form their own opinions. This is fair dinkum. However, I don't think a
> "group inspection" would be such a great idea as it might offend the mere
> mortals on the list who are not building a show plane.
>
> Perhaps a better approach would be to identify a few recognized
> knowledgeable builders who can offer to review a/c one on one if asked.
> This
> respects the individual builders while making a very worthwhile service
> available in an informal and non-threatening manner.
>
> Just my $0.02
>
> Cheers
>
> Les "some assembly required" Kearney
> #40643
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
> Sent: August-04-08 10:58 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
>
>
> John Cox wrote:
>>
>> I second the comment of a pretty good turn-out and a good group of
>> product representation entries.
>>
>> Kelly would be a good candidate as one of those potential observers.
>> Each plane should be able to OPT out of the review if desired.
> Why (and how) would they do that??? Kinda defeats the purpose of
> increasing your knowledge (I didn't know that!!! :-P ) and everyone is
> going to see the same thing anyway. This group isn't full of sharks
> waiting for the chance to bite a head off, and if the 'anomaly' is so
> bad ..... shouldn't the owner be informed????
>> As an EAA Tech, I would be happy to assist the team.
>>
>> Keeping rates low is a result of frequent Pilot Proficiency and regular
>> maintenance. Knowing what to look for, how to correct it and pending
>> issues beginning to arise saves everyone a lot of money and a loss of
>> friends. By Opting out we can avoid some of the non-productive
>> criticism that does not advance safety "One Iota". I spent this year
>> getting training on becoming a Warbird Judge and how the scoring system
>> works at OSH.
>>
> We'll always get some flames here and there ...... but as a group
> function I don't think that'll happen. The information could be
> presented on a written sheet rather than having a public hanging.
>> The plastic plane crowd has publically conceded that the pursuit of
>> million dollar kits has given the bulk of the market to VANS and the
>> RV-10 is becoming the pre-eminent X-Cntry cruiser.
>>
> As it should be. My favorite is the Grumman line ..... and the RV-10 is
> everything the Grumman AA-5s want to be. Plus, we can customize our
> birds and they can't!!! :-)
>
> Our Grumman Gang is a great group to get info from (for the Grummans),
> and the experience level is high ..... hence the info is excellent. We
> still have some biting emails, but if there are sensitive owners out
> there, they just consider the source and move on.
>
> The more we take care of our brethren, the better we get as a group, and
> that will result in better insurance rates and may even result in some
> flight cost savings. I don't mind taking flak .... builders are an
> opinionated lot ..... but I'd hate to miss that little nugget of info
> that helps me out.
> Linn .... my opinion
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | PIREP: Tungsten Bucking Bar |
My wife and I stopped by the Cleaveland truck during OSH to say hi to
Mike and of course browse the tool selection. After some glowing praise
of the tungsten bucking bars ("rivets practically melt with these
things") we decided to buy one and see what the hoopla is all about.
Well, after driving 30-ish rivets last night (many in very tight
quarters) I have to say I'm really impressed. The bar is so small it's
hard to imagine many spots on the plane that you couldn't get it lined
up on a rivet and yet it has the same mass of bars 4-5 times its size.
It's early but my initial impression is that this is a must have tool,
particularly for a new builder who doesn't already have a bunch of money
invested in regular steel bars.
Just my $.02
-Brian
Iowa City, IA
#40497
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Flap alignment |
DONE! Thanks for your timely responses. I made a -3 degree jig and went with
that. Miraculously, when I adjusted the ailerons to the new flap position, the
wing tips were dead on! Unbelievable, made my day.
We started early while it was still cool and had the new adjustments made, all
push rod locknuts tightened and safety painted, then disassembled and wings off
and back in the garage by the time Van's opened up (12 noon our time). And
none too soon since it hit 98 today.
So we didn't bother to check with Van's.
Scott and Jessie, thanks for the tip of looking at the corner relative to the fuse
bottom edge. I did go ahead and trim the inner edge of the flaps to give
a good clearance. And with the -3 degree setting, the corner is just a bit lower
than the edge -- close enough since I don't want to mess with the great wingtip
alignment.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196492#196492
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at |
OSH
Les, et al,
I don't know if Canada has them, but this is one of the functions of the
EAA Tech Counselor program.
Perhaps there aren't too many tech counselors who are RV-10 builders
yet...but John C and myself are. I'm not far enough into my project to
offer much -10 specific advise, yet..but perhaps there are others who are.
Anyone who has built a plane such as the RV-10 can apply to the EAA for
designation as a Tech Counselor. I would encourage some of you that are
flying to consider this, and it is a good way to both meet new builders
and volunteer a little time to advise them. More information is
available on the EAA web site. Most EAA chapters will have several, and
some have even built an RV before. 8-)
Project visits are done one on one, a written report is given to the
builder, and a copy goes to EAA. It is one effort to reduce failures
during the test fly-off period.
Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Linn
>
> Your post about "opting out" is a good segway into a topic that I wanted to
> raise with the group.
>
> Over my build process, this list has been my support group in a very real
> sense. There are few builders where I am so I have had to learn as a go
> along and call on the list when I run into problems. To that end, I find it
> easier and easier to admit my mistakes and get help.
>
> While at KOSH, I spoke with another builder who recognized my name from my
> "Oh sh*t" posts. As a builder he was only lurking as he found the list a bit
> intimidating. As a group, I believe that we need to encourage more builders
> to raise their issues and problems so that they can move forward in the
> knowledge that they are not alone in turning aluminum into scrap. If you
> read the list over time, it is easy to get the impression that not many
> "mistakes" are raised and therefore everyone is doing everything exactly
> right.
>
> While on the surface, having a "group inspection" of a/c at KOSH may sound
> like a good idea, I am not sure I would appreciate an uninvited critique of
> my workmanship. I suspect the process would all too easily evolve into a
> beauty contest. I understand that anyone can look at any a/c at KOSH and
> form their own opinions. This is fair dinkum. However, I don't think a
> "group inspection" would be such a great idea as it might offend the mere
> mortals on the list who are not building a show plane.
>
> Perhaps a better approach would be to identify a few recognized
> knowledgeable builders who can offer to review a/c one on one if asked. This
> respects the individual builders while making a very worthwhile service
> available in an informal and non-threatening manner.
>
> Just my $0.02
>
> Cheers
>
> Les "some assembly required" Kearney
> #40643
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
Which airport?
The DAR program involves non FAA personnel in the awarding of
Airworthiness Certificates and the submission of application for a
Repairman's Certificate. There was quite a discussion about DARs who
are knowingly signing off multiple builds by the same builder for hire
during the second 51% meeting at Osh. The first meeting on the 51% was
by the FED about the rule change, in reality a policy change which "Is
not about Safety".
You may have a DAR who is just right for you. We had a great
Airworthiness Inspector who moved from Hillsboro to Spokane and we lost
a valued resource locally.
"Das Fed"
John Cox
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Wright
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: Constructive Feedback was RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim
noted at OSH
how about everybody come to my airport and inspect my airplane before
the airworthiness inspector does? That'd be great!
i should be careful for what I wish!
Rob Wright
#392
windshield fairing and spinner
----- Original Message ----
From: Les Kearney <kearney@shaw.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 4, 2008 2:10:42 PM
Subject: Constructive Feedback was RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at
OSH
Linn
Your post about "opting out" is a good segway into a topic that I wanted
to
raise with the group.
Over my build process, this list has been my support group in a very
real
sense. There are few builders where I am so I have had to learn as a go
along and call on the list when I run into problems. To that end, I find
it
easier and easier to admit my mistakes and get help.
While at KOSH, I spoke with another builder who recognized my name from
my
"Oh sh*t" posts. As a builder he was only lurking as he found the list a
bit
intimidating. As a group, I believe that we need to encourage more
builders
to raise their issues and problems so that they can move forward in the
knowledge that they are not alone in turning aluminum into scrap. If you
read the list over time, it is easy to get the impression that not many
"mistakes" are raised and therefore everyone is doing everything exactly
right.
While on the surface, having a "group inspection" of a/c at KOSH may
sound
like a good idea, I am not sure I would appreciate an uninvited critique
of
my workmanship. I suspect the process would all too easily evolve into a
beauty contest. I understand that anyone can look at any a/c at KOSH and
form their own opinions. This is fair dinkum. However, I don't think a
"group inspection" would be such a great idea as it might offend the
mere
mortals on the list who are not building a show plane.
Perhaps a better approach would be to identify a few recognized
knowledgeable builders who can offer to review a/c one on one if asked.
This
respects the individual builders while making a very worthwhile service
available in an informal and non-threatening manner.
Just my $0.02
Cheers
Les "some assembly required" Kearney
#40643
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
Sent: August-04-08 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
<pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
John Cox wrote:
>
> I second the comment of a pretty good turn-out and a good group of
> product representation entries.
>
> Kelly would be a good candidate as one of those potential observers.
> Each plane should be able to OPT out of the review if desired.
Why (and how) would they do that??? Kinda defeats the purpose of
increasing your knowledge (I didn't know that!!! :-P ) and everyone is
going to see the same thing anyway. This group isn't full of sharks
waiting for the chance to bite a head off, and if the 'anomaly' is so
bad ..... shouldn't the owner be informed????
> As an EAA Tech, I would be happy to assist the team.
>
> Keeping rates low is a result of frequent Pilot Proficiency and
regular
> maintenance. Knowing what to look for, how to correct it and pending
> issues beginning to arise saves everyone a lot of money and a loss of
> friends. By Opting out we can avoid some of the non-productive
> criticism that does not advance safety "One Iota". I spent this year
> getting training on becoming a Warbird Judge and how the scoring
system
> works at OSH.
>
We'll always get some flames here and there ...... but as a group
function I don't think that'll happen. The information could be
presented on a written sheet rather than having a public hanging.
> The plastic plane crowd has publically conceded that the pursuit of
> million dollar kits has given the bulk of the market to VANS and the
> RV-10 is becoming the pre-eminent X-Cntry cruiser.
>
As it should be. My favorite is the Grumman line ..... and the RV-10 is
everything the Grumman AA-5s want to be. Plus, we can customize our
birds and they can't!!! :-)
Our Grumman Gang is a great group to get info from (for the Grummans),
and the experience level is high ..... hence the info is excellent. We
still have some biting emails, but if there are sensitive owners out
there, they just consider the source and move on.
The more we take care of our brethren, the better we get as a group, and
that will result in better insurance rates and may even result in some
flight cost savings. I don't mind taking flak .... builders are an
opinionated lot ..... but I'd hate to miss that little nugget of info
that helps me out.
Linn .... my opinion
do not
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Message 23
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Hi
Does anyone have a source for a center console similar to the ones sold by
Accuracy Avionics? I don't need a panel, just the center console along with
a storage box. I have fabbed an aluminum one but I really like the look of
the ones I saw at KOSH.
Inquiring minds need to know
Les Kearney
#40643
Message 24
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Stein had one in his booth made out of aluminum. It looked pretty nice.
$1,000 was a little too stiff for my budget.
I like what Greg Hale did with his panel and console.
http://www.nwacaptain.com/panel.html
http://www.nwacaptain.com/console.html
I asked, but he doesn't have copies of his plans anymore. When I get to
this stage, I think I may take the time to build molds. It shouldn't be too
hard to duplicate. It may take some time, but it will save some $$$.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 7:51 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Center console
Hi
Does anyone have a source for a center console similar to the ones sold by
Accuracy Avionics? I don't need a panel, just the center console along with
a storage box. I have fabbed an aluminum one but I really like the look of
the ones I saw at KOSH.
Inquiring minds need to know
Les Kearney
#40643
Message 25
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Hi Bob
I have seen Greg's site before. It was what got me thinking about a center
console. I would like mine to be a little less elaborate however as I don't
want to divide my panel in thirds.
Greg's is pretty nice looking though..
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: August-04-08 6:39 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Center console
Stein had one in his booth made out of aluminum. It looked pretty nice.
$1,000 was a little too stiff for my budget.
I like what Greg Hale did with his panel and console.
http://www.nwacaptain.com/panel.html
http://www.nwacaptain.com/console.html
I asked, but he doesn't have copies of his plans anymore. When I get to
this stage, I think I may take the time to build molds. It shouldn't be too
hard to duplicate. It may take some time, but it will save some $$$.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 7:51 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Center console
Hi
Does anyone have a source for a center console similar to the ones sold by
Accuracy Avionics? I don't need a panel, just the center console along with
a storage box. I have fabbed an aluminum one but I really like the look of
the ones I saw at KOSH.
Inquiring minds need to know
Les Kearney
#40643
Message 26
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Chatting with the SMA Diesel guys at Fond du Lac waiting for Friday's
rain shower to blow through . . .
They hinted that they have been talking a little with Van's about
engineering an installation of the SMA diesel for the RV-10. This is a
change from a few years ago when they weren't interested in the
homebuilt market.
Obviously Van's is conservative when it comes to engines, and SMA is,
too. They want to make sure any installation is pretty well wrung out.
The engine has essentially been around for at least 6 years now, so they
think they have a pretty mature design.
It is in their interest, obviously, but they hinted that the end of
100LL is going to accelerate now that some have picked it up as an
environmental issue. (i.e. lead pollution)
Anyway, for those of you that are in the early stages of building, if
you want a certified diesel with a large company behind it for support,
it might behoove you to let Van's know about your interest in the SMA
diesel. The more folks that mention it to Van's, the more motivation
they have to support SMA and perhaps even setup some OEM pricing like
they have on Lycomonings.
Cheers,
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
Aurora Flight Sciences
tdt@aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
Message 27
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I look forward to SMAs success in convincing VAN to consider a second
engine option other than the Lycoming IO-540. I will say prayers and
wish them luck for our brethren over the pond that have a hard time with
100LL avgas. I am adding Rob Hickman's 3 blade composite Hartzell to
those prayers as well.
I was just getting all excited about the Lycoming TEO-540-A ie2 engine
having about the same chance. I was also sorry to hear that John
Delamarter is no longer with Thunderbolt.
Let's start posting about all the new vendor products to get things
rolling again.
John Cox
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dawson-Townsend,Timothy
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: RV10-List: SMA Diesel
Chatting with the SMA Diesel guys at Fond du Lac waiting for Friday's
rain shower to blow through . . .
They hinted that they have been talking a little with Van's about
engineering an installation of the SMA diesel for the RV-10. This is a
change from a few years ago when they weren't interested in the
homebuilt market.
Obviously Van's is conservative when it comes to engines, and SMA is,
too. They want to make sure any installation is pretty well wrung out.
The engine has essentially been around for at least 6 years now, so they
think they have a pretty mature design.
It is in their interest, obviously, but they hinted that the end of
100LL is going to accelerate now that some have picked it up as an
environmental issue. (i.e. lead pollution)
Anyway, for those of you that are in the early stages of building, if
you want a certified diesel with a large company behind it for support,
it might behoove you to let Van's know about your interest in the SMA
diesel. The more folks that mention it to Van's, the more motivation
they have to support SMA and perhaps even setup some OEM pricing like
they have on Lycomonings.
Cheers,
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
Aurora Flight Sciences
tdt@aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at |
OSH
Pascal,
I like the way you took my intention for that suggestion. Those who
know me and know my plane know that I'm just another builder...who's
had many of things go wrong along the way. Plenty of mistakes to
point out. My plane isn't a showplane at all, but just another
RV-10....one that gets flown for what it was designed. I'm not
for beauty contests, but think it's great for those coming after me
in the build to learn from the mistakes that I and many others have
made. I certainly can pick on some planes and show some repetitive
examples...but it's never out of poking fun at people...it's either
about keeping them safe (i.e. the suggestion of checking peoples
trim tabs or flap alignments....both of which are things that
I've seen wrong on other RV-10's), or helping other builders avoid
cosmetic mistakes. There were many RV-10's on the field this OSH.
I saw some fairly average ones with nice blending on their elevator
horns, where the fairings were smoothly transitioned to the aluminum.
I saw a spectacularly finished RV-10 that lacked the smoothness in
that area. Showing these things can help other builders make their
planes better. Another perfect example is the seam of the upper
forward fuse to the lower forward fuse, just forward of the windshield.
I filled that seam well on the aft corners of the windscreen. It looks
wonderful. However, it looks cosmetically hideous that I didn't
think of filling that seam all the way forward. I'm constantly
aware of that on my plane. Funny thing is, there were some
absolutely otherwise spectacular planes there that did the same thing.
Wouldn't it be nice to have someone point that out to you BEFORE you
get that far along?? I know I sure which I had an RV-10 counselor
to show me some tips in person.
So nope, this isn't about picking on anyones plane, but I think
that as a group, there's a lot that could be taught, and learned,
by traveling from plane to plane. Can I do it on a one-on-one basis?
Sure. But, to tell you the truth, I'm just not interested in
that repetition over and over doing one-on-ones...it's inefficient
to do it that way at OSH. We all just need to be grown up enough
to be willing to share, willing to learn, and have both our
positives and negatives pointed out. Heck, start with me...there's
a lot of mileage you can have by critiquing the trailing edge of
at least one of my doors and how well it blends with the fuselage. ;)
Next year for OSH, if you're an RV-10 builder, try to come for
the first 3 or 4 days of the show and we'll figure something out
to do with that time that will benefit you. I learned this year though
that if you're not there for the Sunday-Wed time early in the week,
you're going to miss a lot of potential stuff...so come early, stay
late, if at all possible.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
pascal wrote:
>
> Les;
> My problem is I read too much about the building process so I don't
> recall where I read this but the group inspection idea is one I read and
> always thought was a great idea. . I have had many come by and look for
> all my shortfalls, my TC is a very knowledgeable RV pilot and I always
> dread what he will say about my building, I listen carefully to every
> comment, I ask questions and in the end am very happy for the feedback I
> received which usually is far more optimistic than I held my building
> skills to be.
> The important thing to remember is that we can take advice or leave it
> but one needs to consider what is raised and seriously determine if it
> applies.
>
> The good thing about a group (and this one is a great one) is that one
> can say they messed up and get feedback, which I usually take as
> positive and not harsh, Tim and a few others have made "gotchas" as a
> link to show how it is common for us to have issues with steps and
> sections. Section 29 was a breeze, the fuel tank sealing was a breeze,
> not because I am good, but because I was given a gotcha to avoid and
> hence was able to take the plans and adjust it to others issues so I
> would not have the same issue.
> If one looks at all the great sites out there Tim's, Deems, William
> Curtis, etc they have had many issues and they mention them and what
> they needed to do to repair the issue, I have looked at all these sites,
> Mike Rowe's and initially John Jensen to see what they did so I can work
> off of that as a starting point.
> Basically I think there is quite a lot out there to see what others have
> done before us and sitting in front of a computer I have more courage to
> ask a question and run than have someone look me in the face and say
> "you have got to be kidding.." which I jest because usually the
> responses come back quickly and allows one to think through options to
> repair the issue.
> Pascal
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca>
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:10 AM
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Constructive Feedback was RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted
> at OSH
>
>>
>> Linn
>>
>> Your post about "opting out" is a good segway into a topic that I
>> wanted to
>> raise with the group.
>>
>> Over my build process, this list has been my support group in a very real
>> sense. There are few builders where I am so I have had to learn as a go
>> along and call on the list when I run into problems. To that end, I
>> find it
>> easier and easier to admit my mistakes and get help.
>>
>> While at KOSH, I spoke with another builder who recognized my name
>> from my
>> "Oh sh*t" posts. As a builder he was only lurking as he found the list
>> a bit
>> intimidating. As a group, I believe that we need to encourage more
>> builders
>> to raise their issues and problems so that they can move forward in the
>> knowledge that they are not alone in turning aluminum into scrap. If you
>> read the list over time, it is easy to get the impression that not many
>> "mistakes" are raised and therefore everyone is doing everything exactly
>> right.
>>
>> While on the surface, having a "group inspection" of a/c at KOSH may
>> sound
>> like a good idea, I am not sure I would appreciate an uninvited
>> critique of
>> my workmanship. I suspect the process would all too easily evolve into a
>> beauty contest. I understand that anyone can look at any a/c at KOSH and
>> form their own opinions. This is fair dinkum. However, I don't think a
>> "group inspection" would be such a great idea as it might offend the mere
>> mortals on the list who are not building a show plane.
>>
>> Perhaps a better approach would be to identify a few recognized
>> knowledgeable builders who can offer to review a/c one on one if
>> asked. This
>> respects the individual builders while making a very worthwhile service
>> available in an informal and non-threatening manner.
>>
>> Just my $0.02
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Les "some assembly required" Kearney
>> #40643
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
>> Sent: August-04-08 10:58 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
>>
>>
>> John Cox wrote:
>>>
>>> I second the comment of a pretty good turn-out and a good group of
>>> product representation entries.
>>>
>>> Kelly would be a good candidate as one of those potential observers.
>>> Each plane should be able to OPT out of the review if desired.
>> Why (and how) would they do that??? Kinda defeats the purpose of
>> increasing your knowledge (I didn't know that!!! :-P ) and everyone is
>> going to see the same thing anyway. This group isn't full of sharks
>> waiting for the chance to bite a head off, and if the 'anomaly' is so
>> bad ..... shouldn't the owner be informed????
>>> As an EAA Tech, I would be happy to assist the team.
>>>
>>> Keeping rates low is a result of frequent Pilot Proficiency and regular
>>> maintenance. Knowing what to look for, how to correct it and pending
>>> issues beginning to arise saves everyone a lot of money and a loss of
>>> friends. By Opting out we can avoid some of the non-productive
>>> criticism that does not advance safety "One Iota". I spent this year
>>> getting training on becoming a Warbird Judge and how the scoring system
>>> works at OSH.
>>>
>> We'll always get some flames here and there ...... but as a group
>> function I don't think that'll happen. The information could be
>> presented on a written sheet rather than having a public hanging.
>>> The plastic plane crowd has publically conceded that the pursuit of
>>> million dollar kits has given the bulk of the market to VANS and the
>>> RV-10 is becoming the pre-eminent X-Cntry cruiser.
>>>
>> As it should be. My favorite is the Grumman line ..... and the RV-10 is
>> everything the Grumman AA-5s want to be. Plus, we can customize our
>> birds and they can't!!! :-)
>>
>> Our Grumman Gang is a great group to get info from (for the Grummans),
>> and the experience level is high ..... hence the info is excellent. We
>> still have some biting emails, but if there are sensitive owners out
>> there, they just consider the source and move on.
>>
>> The more we take care of our brethren, the better we get as a group, and
>> that will result in better insurance rates and may even result in some
>> flight cost savings. I don't mind taking flak .... builders are an
>> opinionated lot ..... but I'd hate to miss that little nugget of info
>> that helps me out.
>> Linn .... my opinion
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Flap alignment |
Did you find that the flap was basically bottomed out on the
spar when you were at -3 degrees? As far as I remember, the
alignment process starts with the flaps tight against the rear
spar...and that's about where the -3 is...and everything aligns
to that. If your flaps though are below the fuselage when they're
all the way at -3, you're almost definitely looking at drooped
flaps...and it'll cost you a couple kts at best. So how close
is your jig-measured -3 degress to the flaps bottoming out?
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Lew Gallagher wrote:
> <lewgall@charter.net>
>
> DONE! Thanks for your timely responses. I made a -3 degree jig and
> went with that. Miraculously, when I adjusted the ailerons to the
> new flap position, the wing tips were dead on! Unbelievable, made my
> day.
>
> We started early while it was still cool and had the new adjustments
> made, all push rod locknuts tightened and safety painted, then
> disassembled and wings off and back in the garage by the time Van's
> opened up (12 noon our time). And none too soon since it hit 98
> today. So we didn't bother to check with Van's.
>
> Scott and Jessie, thanks for the tip of looking at the corner
> relative to the fuse bottom edge. I did go ahead and trim the inner
> edge of the flaps to give a good clearance. And with the -3 degree
> setting, the corner is just a bit lower than the edge -- close enough
> since I don't want to mess with the great wingtip alignment.
>
> Later, - Lew
>
> -------- non-pilot crazy about building NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
> Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196492#196492
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
Message 30
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Apparently the new PMAG for the IO540 is going to be tested on an RV10
starting directly after Oshkosh 2008.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 7:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: SMA Diesel
I look forward to SMAs success in convincing VAN to consider a second engine
option other than the Lycoming IO-540. I will say prayers and wish them
luck for our brethren over the pond that have a hard time with 100LL avgas.
I am adding Rob Hickman's 3 blade composite Hartzell to those prayers as
well.
I was just getting all excited about the Lycoming TEO-540-A ie2 engine
having about the same chance. I was also sorry to hear that John Delamarter
is no longer with Thunderbolt.
Let's start posting about all the new vendor products to get things rolling
again.
John Cox
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dawson-Townsend,Timothy
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: RV10-List: SMA Diesel
Chatting with the SMA Diesel guys at Fond du Lac waiting for Friday's rain
shower to blow through . . .
They hinted that they have been talking a little with Van's about
engineering an installation of the SMA diesel for the RV-10. This is a
change from a few years ago when they weren't interested in the homebuilt
market.
Obviously Van's is conservative when it comes to engines, and SMA is, too.
They want to make sure any installation is pretty well wrung out. The
engine has essentially been around for at least 6 years now, so they think
they have a pretty mature design.
It is in their interest, obviously, but they hinted that the end of 100LL is
going to accelerate now that some have picked it up as an environmental
issue. (i.e. lead pollution)
Anyway, for those of you that are in the early stages of building, if you
want a certified diesel with a large company behind it for support, it might
behoove you to let Van's know about your interest in the SMA diesel. The
more folks that mention it to Van's, the more motivation they have to
support SMA and perhaps even setup some OEM pricing like they have on
Lycomonings.
Cheers,
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
Aurora Flight Sciences
tdt@aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 31
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I was told by a rep at SMA that the retro-fit cost for a C182 is north
of 100k.
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: Dawson-Townsend,Timothy
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 8:45 PM
Subject: RV10-List: SMA Diesel
Chatting with the SMA Diesel guys at Fond du Lac waiting for Friday's
rain shower to blow through . . .
They hinted that they have been talking a little with Van's about
engineering an installation of the SMA diesel for the RV-10. This is a
change from a few years ago when they weren't interested in the
homebuilt market.
Obviously Van's is conservative when it comes to engines, and SMA is,
too. They want to make sure any installation is pretty well wrung out.
The engine has essentially been around for at least 6 years now, so they
think they have a pretty mature design.
It is in their interest, obviously, but they hinted that the end of
100LL is going to accelerate now that some have picked it up as an
environmental issue. (i.e. lead pollution)
Anyway, for those of you that are in the early stages of building, if
you want a certified diesel with a large company behind it for support,
it might behoove you to let Van's know about your interest in the SMA
diesel. The more folks that mention it to Van's, the more motivation
they have to support SMA and perhaps even setup some OEM pricing like
they have on Lycomonings.
Cheers,
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
Aurora Flight Sciences
tdt@aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
Message 32
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Aside from cost issues...that package is designed to replace a 230 hp O-470,
which weigh as much as an IO-550. There would have to be some serious effort
to resolve W& B issues. Also, IIRC it needs a fair amount of cooling air for
the radiator...not very streamlined.
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Dave Leikam <daveleikam@wi.rr.com> wrote:
> I was told by a rep at SMA that the retro-fit cost for a C182 is north of
> 100k.
>
> Dave Leikam
> RV-10 #40496
> N89DA (Reserved)
> Muskego, WI
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | OSH RV-10 Nose Wheel Pants & Fairing |
Thanks everyone at OSH that made this year special.
I neglected to photograph a mostly white -10 (from North or South
Dakota) on the flight line that had some spectacular yet subtle
fiberglass work. I am specifically referring to the Nose Wheel Pants and
Leg Fairing. This builder changed the geometry of the leg fairing as it
intersected the wheel pants giving the transition a flat surface for the
wheel to pivot vs. the standard Vans look. The builder also built up the
leading edge of the Nose Wheel Pant for a smooth transition to the Leg
Fairing.
If anyone took a picture that assembly would you please forward me a
copy?
Thanks,
Robin
Do Not Archive
Robin@PaintTheWeb.com
Message 34
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| Subject: | Las Vegas Area 10 Builders |
Any 10 builders in the Las Vegas area, I will be in Las Vegas for 4 days
and will have free time to visit to talk flying, building ect.
Please contact me
707-479-5895 cell
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
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