Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:38 AM - Re: PIREP: Tungsten Bucking Bar (MauleDriver)
2. 04:45 AM - Re: Flap alignment (Lew Gallagher)
3. 04:50 AM - Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Lew Gallagher)
4. 05:27 AM - Re: SMA Diesel (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
5. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Tim Olson)
6. 07:09 AM - Re: new products (Jesse Saint)
7. 07:18 AM - Re: Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Jesse Saint)
8. 07:18 AM - Re: Las Vegas Area 10 Builders (Rick Sked)
9. 07:48 AM - Hartzell and their support (pascal)
10. 08:34 AM - Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Dave Saylor)
11. 08:34 AM - NTSB checking Door Pins (Dave Saylor)
12. 08:57 AM - Intersting New/Better stuff seen at OSH (AirMike)
13. 08:58 AM - Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Rick Sked)
14. 08:59 AM - Re: NTSB checking Door Pins (pascal)
15. 09:04 AM - Re: gasoline rebates (itsmyneck)
16. 09:26 AM - High DA takeoff (Dave Saylor)
17. 09:33 AM - Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Dave Saylor)
18. 09:36 AM - Re: Las Vegas Area 10 Builders (John Cumins)
19. 09:48 AM - Re: High DA takeoff (nukeflyboy)
20. 09:59 AM - Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (nukeflyboy)
21. 10:06 AM - Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (nukeflyboy)
22. 10:10 AM - Bose X Aviation Headset For Sale (Geico266)
23. 10:30 AM - Re: Re: Leak Proofing the Fuel Sender (John Ackerman)
24. 10:35 AM - Re: Re: Leak Proofing the Fuel Sender (John Ackerman)
25. 11:19 AM - Re: NTSB checking Door Pins (David McNeill)
26. 11:34 AM - Re: Center Console - Buyer's remorse (James, Peter [SD])
27. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Tim Olson)
28. 12:22 PM - Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Tim Olson)
29. 12:28 PM - Re: Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Tim Olson)
30. 12:29 PM - Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Geico266)
31. 12:40 PM - Re: Re: Center Console - Buyer's remorse (Scott Schmidt)
32. 01:09 PM - Re: Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Scott Schmidt)
33. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
34. 02:33 PM - The rear bulkhead SB (pascal)
35. 03:23 PM - Re: The rear bulkhead SB (Scott Schmidt)
36. 06:37 PM - Re: new products (William Curtis)
37. 06:46 PM - Plasma III to ACS switch wiring diagram (orchidman)
38. 06:46 PM - Crane on sale @ Harbor Freight (Tim Lewis)
39. 07:22 PM - Re: SMA Diesel (John Cox)
40. 07:32 PM - Re: OSH RV-10 Nose Wheel Pants & Fairing (jerry petersen)
41. 07:42 PM - Re: OSH RV-10 Nose Wheel Pants & Fairing ()
42. 07:56 PM - Re: OSH RV-10 Nose Wheel Pants & Fairing (Kelly McMullen)
43. 08:02 PM - Re: new products (elhershb@comcast.net)
44. 08:24 PM - Asymmetrical trim , and other things (linn Walters)
45. 08:34 PM - Re: Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted a t OSH (ddddsp1@juno.com)
46. 10:40 PM - Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH (Dave Saylor)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: PIREP: Tungsten Bucking Bar |
I consider it a must have tool too.
However, I've found that I still need my favorite steel bars too. I
gave Mr Tungsten its first real workout on the bottom QB wing skins.
Lot's of reaching into tight spaces there.
The good news is that the tungsten greatly eased many of the bucks.
The bad news is that I soon found that I overused it. It's too small to
grip easily in some circumstances. That makes it difficult to hold on
to (and you know what happens if you lose your grip $%###&#!), and
therefore tiring on the hands. Once I experimented with my old standby
"Big Buck Chunk-o-iron" I found myself using it and the Mr Tungsten 50:50.
The surprising news is that I didn't drop either bar in the wing (yet).
Still waiting to see the ding that little dense piece of tungsten can
make when dropped. It'll probably happen the minute I stop using
padding....
Bill "psyched after Oshkosh and heads down panel planning" Watson
40605
Douglas, Brian S wrote:
> ...snippety snip...
> It's early but my initial impression is that this is a must have tool,
> particularly for a new builder who doesn't already have a bunch of money
> invested in regular steel bars.
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Flap alignment |
Hey Tim,
Dang, I was afraid you were too busy with Osh to chime in before Mon. !
Looks like we'll revisit the alignment after all. Fortunately, like just about
everything else, we get really good about the third time we re-do stuff.
The flaps were a bit shy of bumping, and a bit shy of the -3 jig, but MAN those
wing tip alignments just got the best of me! In hindsight (of COURSE) the tip
up above the fuse edge makes sense in terms of drag.
It will give us a chance to try out our flex, braided fuel lines we had made up
yesterday -- we really didn't like our "S" turns in the Van's fuel lines from
tank to fuse. So we cut them off at the fuse and flared them for the hose there.
And the plane in the driveway with the wings attached really gives the neighbors
something to gawk at -- almost caused several wrecks!
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196582#196582
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
Tim,
We'll soon be mounting the windshield and making that fairing. I'm pretty sure
what you're talking about in that lower corner, but could you post a picture
to show "that seam forward"?
Thanks, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196583#196583
Message 4
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Interesting thing on the Hartzell 3 blade, having heard that they would h
ave pricing available at OSH I stopped by their booth to find out how much
fully expecting it to be in the 10-15k range. I was basically told they ha
d no information and if I wanted to put it on a RV-10 I would have to get e
veryone to bug Van's to carry it otherwise I was out of luck. Easier solut
ion to me is sticking with an MT, no bugging Van's and plenty of people fro
m MT willing to discuss. :) Guess that's why Hartzell usually had a bunch
of employees standing around talking amongst themselves every time I walke
d by.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: SMA Diesel
I look forward to SMAs success in convincing VAN to consider a second engin
e option other than the Lycoming IO-540. I will say prayers and wish them
luck for our brethren over the pond that have a hard time with 100LL avgas.
I am adding Rob Hickman's 3 blade composite Hartzell to those prayers as
well.
I was just getting all excited about the Lycoming TEO-540-A ie2 engine havi
ng about the same chance. I was also sorry to hear that John Delamarter is
no longer with Thunderbolt.
Let's start posting about all the new vendor products to get things rollin
g again.
John Cox
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted |
at OSH
Hi Lew,
Thankfully, it's hard to see in any of the aerial photos
or anything with distance. :)
Here's a photo though...look above the NACA vent and notice
how aft of the vent it's all nice ans mooth and blended and
looks very nice...you can't see where the aluminum ends and
teh windshield fairing begins. but, forward of the NACA
vent, suddenly that seam appears and you get that ugly
strongly riveted seam showing up all the way forward to the
firewall. It would be simple to fill and smooth that area,
but people just don't think about it at the time. It's
one thing that would be a big cosmetic improvement.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/paint/20051030/RV200510300056.html
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Lew Gallagher wrote:
> <lewgall@charter.net>
>
> Tim,
>
> We'll soon be mounting the windshield and making that fairing. I'm
> pretty sure what you're talking about in that lower corner, but could
> you post a picture to show "that seam forward"?
>
> Thanks, - Lew
>
> -------- non-pilot crazy about building NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
> Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196583#196583
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: new products |
Yes, I will look forward to Alex's feedback on how well the P-Mag
works. I have been talking to the P-mag guys now for 3 years on
getting the 6-cyl version going. Their design, from what I have seen,
is very simple both from an installation and a timing aspect, which
makes it very attractive to the amateur-built market. Also, the lack
of dependence on the aircraft electrical system puts it well above the
other offering(s) in my mind.
I have been talking with Brent Maule about their new plane with the
SMA for over a year now. They really like the engine so far. They
say the economy is great and that it is very smooth considering it is
a diesel.
Would anybody like to comment on their thoughts about Dynon's new
offering? Way too soon to be displaying a product slated for sometime
in 2009? Maybe just following suit with the other major players in
the experimental EFIS market? Personally, I can't wait to see the
final product and the Dynon-ish price tag and simplicity. We'll see.
Rob's prop looked great, although I really see the need to get true
comparison numbers. Rob, is it a 12" spinner? How about finding
someone who would be interested in loaning you their metal prop for a
day of testing? We have yet to get that test done with any of the
different prop offerings. Do we have any idea what the cost will be.
While not a new offering, I know there are a number of people still
waiting to hear numbers on the Barrett Cold Air Induction system. Is
Gary still the only one flying with that? He said he was going to be
getting together with Tim to compare numbers. May I propose that we
get you to do a max MP comparison at 10-14-18,000 feet? With the
standard IO-540 max MP is just over 15 at 17,500, so another inch or
two would go a long way and possibly even increase fuel economy as IAS
is below what we consider to be best glide, so a little boost in MP
would possibly get the best economy at those altitudes.
Numbers on the James cowl would be nice to get when one is flying. I
don't ever remember hearing numbers on the one flying in Canada.
Is there any more information on the turbo-charged -10 down in
Australia? I remember that being mentioned once on the forum a year
or two ago, but then it dropped off the map.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Aug 4, 2008, at 11:26 PM, David McNeill wrote:
> Apparently the new PMAG for the IO540 is going to be tested on an
> RV10 starting directly after Oshkosh 2008.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted |
at OSH
May I add my $.02 here? While I agree that cosmetically it may look
better to start with having this seem filled, I think that you will
definitely se cracks in the filler very quickly starting at the
firewall. With all the vibration in that area, I think Tim's initial
approach is the best long-lasting look.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Aug 5, 2008, at 8:53 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Hi Lew,
>
> Thankfully, it's hard to see in any of the aerial photos
> or anything with distance. :)
>
> Here's a photo though...look above the NACA vent and notice
> how aft of the vent it's all nice ans mooth and blended and
> looks very nice...you can't see where the aluminum ends and
> teh windshield fairing begins. but, forward of the NACA
> vent, suddenly that seam appears and you get that ugly
> strongly riveted seam showing up all the way forward to the
> firewall. It would be simple to fill and smooth that area,
> but people just don't think about it at the time. It's
> one thing that would be a big cosmetic improvement.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/paint/20051030/RV200510300056.html
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
> Lew Gallagher wrote:
>> <lewgall@charter.net>
>> Tim,
>> We'll soon be mounting the windshield and making that fairing. I'm
>> pretty sure what you're talking about in that lower corner, but could
>> you post a picture to show "that seam forward"?
>> Thanks, - Lew
>> -------- non-pilot crazy about building NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER
>> #40549 Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
>> Read this topic online here:
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196583#196583
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Las Vegas Area 10 Builders |
When are you going to be here John?
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Cumins" <jcumins@jcis.net>
Sent: Monday, August 4, 2008 9:54:45 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Las Vegas Area 10 Builders
Any 10 builders in the Las Vegas area,=C2- I will be in Las Vegas for 4 d
ays and will have free time to visit to talk flying, building ect.=C2-
Please contact me
707-479-5895 cell
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
====
=======================
==
Message 9
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| Subject: | Hartzell and their support |
Same experience at AOPA last year. My wife mentioned on the spot the
same thing, why would I want to spend energy when there is a prop that
has been tested for years and they are more open to discuss than the
Hartzell folks.. BTW this was also based on asking for the 2 blade
aluminum information and getting semi blown off with- "it's the best
prop out there.. period!" but did not seem interested in expanding on
why? which was what I was asking for.
I really like their prop and I know that Van's is considering it based
on feedback on testing (maybe Rob's data?) but unless the price is equal
or competitive and Rob can expand on his flight to OSH with the 3 blade
that shows it is equal or better than the MT, I'll be going MT. The wife
wants 3 blade, so no need to sell that to her.
Rob;
How about that review on the the prop for your flight to OSH and any
updates on your AFS you covered at OSH?
Pascal
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 5:24 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: SMA Diesel
Interesting thing on the Hartzell 3 blade, having heard that they
would have pricing available at OSH I stopped by their booth to find out
how much fully expecting it to be in the 10-15k range. I was basically
told they had no information and if I wanted to put it on a RV-10 I
would have to get everyone to bug Van's to carry it otherwise I was out
of luck. Easier solution to me is sticking with an MT, no bugging Van's
and plenty of people from MT willing to discuss. J Guess that's why
Hartzell usually had a bunch of employees standing around talking
amongst themselves every time I walked by.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: SMA Diesel
I look forward to SMAs success in convincing VAN to consider a second
engine option other than the Lycoming IO-540. I will say prayers and
wish them luck for our brethren over the pond that have a hard time with
100LL avgas. I am adding Rob Hickman's 3 blade composite Hartzell to
those prayers as well.
I was just getting all excited about the Lycoming TEO-540-A ie2 engine
having about the same chance. I was also sorry to hear that John
Delamarter is no longer with Thunderbolt.
Let's start posting about all the new vendor products to get things
rolling again.
John Cox
Message 10
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| Subject: | Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
One of the reasons I brought the plane to OSH was to get some feedback.
Like anyone, I wish my plane was perfect, although I think we all benefit. I
did get a note left for me about the trim tabs, and I appreciate it. I'll
look at them again.
I had lots of time on the way home to observe the elevators in cruise. They
were as close to even left to right as I could judge.
I worked quite a bit to get the tabs to be both up or both down. The best I
could get was as Tim described--one just starting up, then down as the other
moved from up to down. What would be really helpful for me is to know how
much the"up then down" tab should deflect "opposite" when it does so. I
recall mine goes about 1/8" before it starts down again, but I'm not at the
plane. I'll check again.
Thanks for the comments.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
N921AC 202 hours, just back from OSH
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 6:34 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
Was talking to another RV-10 pilot at OSH just before I left and he told me
he peeked at some of the RV-10's that flew in and looked for asymmetrical
trim tab deployment. As we've discussed in the past, the tabs should be
both neutral at the same time, but when they go up, only one goes up (the
other does move up a tiny amount), and when they go down, they both should
go down.
You should never have a situation where one goes up and one goes down.
Having only one tab move up may sound crazy, but that's how it's supposed to
work, and keep in mind that this isn't strange at all....many planes and
even the other RV's are built with only one trim tab on one side. But, what
makes our case unique is that if the builder screws up the rigging, they can
end up with the 2 tabs in opposite deflections.....and if you follow the
plans, you will likely have a small misalignment.
These observations were not made by me, but were brought to my attention:
So what was observed was that N921AC has some asymmetrical trim, then
another unpainted RV-10 had a worse condition of asymmetrical trim. But the
one that took the prize was one of the build-for-customer RV-10's that was
at the show....
from what I was told, that RV-10 had one trim tab that was approx. 10
degrees up, while the other tab was approx. 10 deg down. NOW, the
interesting thing was, the person also noticed that it appeared that this
particular RV-10 may have had a little compression deformity of that rear
bulkhead noted in the SB.
Perhaps next year at OSH we should have a gathering to specifically look at
some noted areas of every RV-10 and self-group-check for any potential
safety issues?
This year I just looked at all the pretty planes.
Pretty good turnout overall.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | NTSB checking Door Pins |
On Saturday afternoon I was at the plane getting things set up to leave.
Three guys from the NTSB came up and asked if they could measure my door
pins.
Jeff Guzzetti (guzzetj@ntsb.gov) said they have had a number of contacts
from RV-10 owners, and explained that they are doing a field study to see
how far the pins extend. They measured the pins both extended and
retracted, and photographed the guide blocks. I have all the stock system,
and some of my blocks are cracking at the outboard tangent of the pin hole.
I gotta fix that.
They wrote everything down and promised to share the findings with me. I
tried to peek at the other measurements from other planes but no joy.
I have never heard of the NTSB doing anything like that, so I asked Ken
Krueger a few minutes later what was up and he confirmed that they measured
Van's 10 as well. I don't know how many others were inspected.
I think the NTSB's attention is a good thing, but I could swear I felt a new
draft of air from the leading edge of the door all the way home...
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
N921AC, 202 hours
Message 12
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| Subject: | Intersting New/Better stuff seen at OSH |
Cleveland tools has three cool items
1. Flared wheel pant stand-offs / extenders $45
2. A nice red anodized fuel selector handle for the Vans valve - $34
3. Nice set of flush fitting door locks for the main doors - not yet up on their
web site - I think that the price was a bit north of $100
Rob Hickman's cool 3 blade prop from Hartzell.
Ray Allen Company has a flap position indicator kit for about $100. If you have
an AFS unit apparently it will indicate on your EFIS. In that case you only need
to buy the $35 sending unit. Means that you do not need to look to confirm
how your flaps are deployed on final.
[b]TCW Safety Trim system[/b] for prevents run-away trim danger
McFarlane silicone impregnated baffle seal material - their web site is McFarlaneaviation.com
- called cowl saver
Leading Edge Graphics (Air Graphics LLC) - cool custom stripes for your RV-10 or
any other aircraft - a bit pricey
Bonaco RV-10 SS/Teflon Brake line kit $175 (Bonacolnc.com)
Andair locking fuel caps - $150 - pricey but nicey
If you saw any cool stuff at OSH - list it here so that we can all build a better
and hopefully safer airplane
--------
OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196640#196640
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
Dave,
One thing that amazed me was the heat coming off your wing from the sun...it hits
you in the face and it VERY hot. Oh, you may want to look at the left aft window...looked
kinda wavey ;)
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave@AirCraftersLLC.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 8:26:32 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
One of the reasons I brought the plane to OSH was to get some feedback.
Like anyone, I wish my plane was perfect, although I think we all benefit. I
did get a note left for me about the trim tabs, and I appreciate it. I'll
look at them again.
I had lots of time on the way home to observe the elevators in cruise. They
were as close to even left to right as I could judge.
I worked quite a bit to get the tabs to be both up or both down. The best I
could get was as Tim described--one just starting up, then down as the other
moved from up to down. What would be really helpful for me is to know how
much the"up then down" tab should deflect "opposite" when it does so. I
recall mine goes about 1/8" before it starts down again, but I'm not at the
plane. I'll check again.
Thanks for the comments.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
N921AC 202 hours, just back from OSH
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 6:34 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
Was talking to another RV-10 pilot at OSH just before I left and he told me
he peeked at some of the RV-10's that flew in and looked for asymmetrical
trim tab deployment. As we've discussed in the past, the tabs should be
both neutral at the same time, but when they go up, only one goes up (the
other does move up a tiny amount), and when they go down, they both should
go down.
You should never have a situation where one goes up and one goes down.
Having only one tab move up may sound crazy, but that's how it's supposed to
work, and keep in mind that this isn't strange at all....many planes and
even the other RV's are built with only one trim tab on one side. But, what
makes our case unique is that if the builder screws up the rigging, they can
end up with the 2 tabs in opposite deflections.....and if you follow the
plans, you will likely have a small misalignment.
These observations were not made by me, but were brought to my attention:
So what was observed was that N921AC has some asymmetrical trim, then
another unpainted RV-10 had a worse condition of asymmetrical trim. But the
one that took the prize was one of the build-for-customer RV-10's that was
at the show....
from what I was told, that RV-10 had one trim tab that was approx. 10
degrees up, while the other tab was approx. 10 deg down. NOW, the
interesting thing was, the person also noticed that it appeared that this
particular RV-10 may have had a little compression deformity of that rear
bulkhead noted in the SB.
Perhaps next year at OSH we should have a gathering to specifically look at
some noted areas of every RV-10 and self-group-check for any potential
safety issues?
This year I just looked at all the pretty planes.
Pretty good turnout overall.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: NTSB checking Door Pins |
so the question is.. why are they doing this? NTSB wouldn't do it unless
they are looking for a consistent issue that could result in an accident
or has resulted in an accident they are reviewing.
Pascal
From: Dave Saylor
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:26 AM
Subject: RV10-List: NTSB checking Door Pins
On Saturday afternoon I was at the plane getting things set up to leave.
Three guys from the NTSB came up and asked if they could measure my
door pins.
Jeff Guzzetti (guzzetj@ntsb.gov) said they have had a number of contacts
from RV-10 owners, and explained that they are doing a field study to
see how far the pins extend. They measured the pins both extended and
retracted, and photographed the guide blocks. I have all the stock
system, and some of my blocks are cracking at the outboard tangent of
the pin hole. I gotta fix that.
They wrote everything down and promised to share the findings with me.
I tried to peek at the other measurements from other planes but no joy.
I have never heard of the NTSB doing anything like that, so I asked Ken
Krueger a few minutes later what was up and he confirmed that they
measured Van's 10 as well. I don't know how many others were inspected.
I think the NTSB's attention is a good thing, but I could swear I felt a
new draft of air from the leading edge of the door all the way home...
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
N921AC, 202 hours
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: gasoline rebates |
There is actually a new program of gas rebates that includes 25 brands. Once every
month for twenty consecutive months they send you a $25 gas debit card. It's
a brand loyalty deal:
http://www.SignUpForGasMoney.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196644#196644
Message 16
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On the way home to California on Monday, we stopped at KEMM for fuel and a
break. The airport elevation is about 7200' and the OAT was 28C. Density
altitude was a bit above 10,000 feet. Landing was a little odd because the
ground speed seemed high, but otherwise uneventful. We had about a 10 knot
crosswind with very little headwind component. We were able to turn off
very easily at mid field.
They have an 8200' runway so I knew if the takeoff didn't seem to be going
well we would have plenty of time to evaluate and abort.
Our takeoff weight was about 2550-2600 lbs. I opted not to fill the tanks.
We had 45 gallons on board.
I was worried that at such a high DA, it would mush and climb lethargically.
I should have known better!
We made full power (20" MP) with the brakes set at the departure end, and
picked a landmark near mid field to help judge distance.
The take-off was a non event. It took longer to get airborne, but at mid
field we were 100 AGL and climbing well.
This plane is awesome!
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
Yeah, that happened a few weeks ago. With the flaps up it's twice as bad,
so we park with the flaps down now.
Dave
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
Dave,
One thing that amazed me was the heat coming off your wing from the sun...it
hits you in the face and it VERY hot. Oh, you may want to look at the left
aft window...looked kinda wavey ;)
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave@AirCraftersLLC.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 8:26:32 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
One of the reasons I brought the plane to OSH was to get some feedback.
Like anyone, I wish my plane was perfect, although I think we all benefit. I
did get a note left for me about the trim tabs, and I appreciate it. I'll
look at them again.
I had lots of time on the way home to observe the elevators in cruise. They
were as close to even left to right as I could judge.
I worked quite a bit to get the tabs to be both up or both down. The best I
could get was as Tim described--one just starting up, then down as the other
moved from up to down. What would be really helpful for me is to know how
much the"up then down" tab should deflect "opposite" when it does so. I
recall mine goes about 1/8" before it starts down again, but I'm not at the
plane. I'll check again.
Thanks for the comments.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
N921AC 202 hours, just back from OSH
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 6:34 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
Was talking to another RV-10 pilot at OSH just before I left and he told me
he peeked at some of the RV-10's that flew in and looked for asymmetrical
trim tab deployment. As we've discussed in the past, the tabs should be
both neutral at the same time, but when they go up, only one goes up (the
other does move up a tiny amount), and when they go down, they both should
go down.
You should never have a situation where one goes up and one goes down.
Having only one tab move up may sound crazy, but that's how it's supposed to
work, and keep in mind that this isn't strange at all....many planes and
even the other RV's are built with only one trim tab on one side. But, what
makes our case unique is that if the builder screws up the rigging, they can
end up with the 2 tabs in opposite deflections.....and if you follow the
plans, you will likely have a small misalignment.
These observations were not made by me, but were brought to my attention:
So what was observed was that N921AC has some asymmetrical trim, then
another unpainted RV-10 had a worse condition of asymmetrical trim. But the
one that took the prize was one of the build-for-customer RV-10's that was
at the show....
from what I was told, that RV-10 had one trim tab that was approx. 10
degrees up, while the other tab was approx. 10 deg down. NOW, the
interesting thing was, the person also noticed that it appeared that this
particular RV-10 may have had a little compression deformity of that rear
bulkhead noted in the SB.
Perhaps next year at OSH we should have a gathering to specifically look at
some noted areas of every RV-10 and self-group-check for any potential
safety issues?
This year I just looked at all the pretty planes.
Pretty good turnout overall.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Las Vegas Area 10 Builders |
Rick
I will be in Las Vegas Thursday Aug 7 - the 10th.
I will have a lot of time in the evenings to visit.
Shoot me your address and contact info and I will look you up when I get
there.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Las Vegas Area 10 Builders
When are you going to be here John?
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Cumins" <jcumins@jcis.net>
Sent: Monday, August 4, 2008 9:54:45 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Las Vegas Area 10 Builders
Any 10 builders in the Las Vegas area, I will be in Las Vegas for 4 days
and will have free time to visit to talk flying, building ect.
Please contact me
707-479-5895 cell
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: High DA takeoff |
Dave,
It is an awesome airplane and I look forward to flying mine in the mountains when
it is done. Thanks for putting on the fiberglass forum at OSH. It is always
helpful to see how the pros do it.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB building fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196659#196659
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
I just finished putting the rudder cables in mine so this caught my eye. One of
the 10s at OSH had its rudder cable aft plastic tubes (that protect the skin
and rear bulkhead) pushed too far forward. The cable will start sawing the skin.
I never saw the owner, and some guys don't appreciate the feedback. For
me, you can never have too many eyes on a project. It is cheap insurance and
good QC.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB building fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196664#196664
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
Another $0.02
It never bothered me to see rivet lines on aluminum airplanes. They are supposed
to be there. What doesn't make sense to me is using filler (aka weight) to
make it look like a compost aircraft.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB building fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196666#196666
Message 22
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| Subject: | Bose X Aviation Headset For Sale |
I have a nice Bose X up for sale on e-Bay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=020&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&viewitem=&item=300247651009&rd=1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196669#196669
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Leak Proofing the Fuel Sender |
Kelly, I wondered about that - certainly if particles of iron came off
the scraper, it would be possible to form a corrosion cell, but a fair
amount of material would be required to establish a significant
corrosion rate. For heaven's sake don't ask me to quantify that!
Steel wool is different - relatively large slivers do break off and
lodge in the surface
More wondering ...
Is there a concern wherever steel meets aluminum? (answer, I think:
"Of course, but Al forms a protective Al2O3 coating, limiting
corrosion rate to an acceptable level except under really adverse
circumstances")
Comment?
John
On Aug 4, 2008, at 7:12 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Same reason you don't use steel wool on aluminum. It can initiate
> corrosion. Yes, steel scrapers will scratch the aluminum and can
> generate all the issues of deep scratches. Phenolic scrapers, or
> scrap plexiglass ground into a scraper works pretty well.
> I don't disagree with Dan using what he did for that purpose(getting
> to skins apart), IF you recognize that close inspection will be
> required and you may have to scrap a piece if it gets too scratched.
> On way of reducing risk is to select stainless steel putty knife, to
> minimize the corrosion aspect.
> Of course John is giving you the airline point of view, where tanks
> frequently need attention, and costs are much higher, as are risks,
> along with the maximum level of regulation/oversight. Different
> standards, different needs...but the physics of steel and aluminum
> remain the same.
>
> On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 9:58 PM, John Ackerman
> <johnag5b@cableone.net> wrote:
>> <johnag5b@cableone.net>
>>
>> John, what is the reason given for no metallic scrapers? Crack
>> initiation?
>> Accidental cuts and gouges?
>> What do you do if you need something very thin as Dan did (see
>> below)?
>> John Ackerman 40458
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 3, 2008, at 5:25 PM, John Cox wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Not to attract contrarian comments but the use of metallic
>>> scrapers on
>>> aluminum might be best avoided. We regularly complete such tasks
>>> with the
>>> use of MEK and plastic scrapers (and barrier gloves). Razor blades
>>> and putty
>>> knifes are a quick way to be pointed to the door on air carrier
>>> aircraft.
>>> Your family members deserve no less.
>>>
>>>> . Removing the side with the cork gasket was much easier, since
>>>> the cork
>>>> is soft and a putty knife can be slipped in between the pieces
>>>> and the cover
>>>> plate pried away and popped loose without much difficulty. The
>>>> ProSeal only
>>>> side was quite a bit more difficult to break loose, !
>>>> and required sliding a single edge razor blade between the bonded
>>>> surfaces most of the way around the circumference of the cover
>>>> plate.
>>>> However, when it came loose it was somewhat easier to clean up
>>>> using a
>>>> razor blade as a scraper combined with MEK.
>>>>
>>>> So the decision to use a gasket or not really comes down to ease of
>>>> future maintenance. Either way keeps the fuel in the tank.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>> -Dan Masys
>>>> RV-10 N104LD back from OSH
>>>> RV-7A N747DL
>>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Leak Proofing the Fuel Sender |
Scratches, John:
Everything in this non-ideal world gets scratched. I believe the issue
is what are the stresses on the part, how big is the scratch, and how
sharp are its corners. I certainly don't disagree with what you say,
and your post is very helpful. Do you have any more quantitative
guidance for us? It would be most welcome.
John Ackerman 40458
On Aug 4, 2008, at 8:49 AM, John Cox wrote:
>
> Let me add that we sneak Skin Knives into some applications (also a
> terminable offence). Blending of scratches requires a 10:1 or 15:1
> taper (depending on the SRM = Structural Repair Manual). You all
> have written one to effect repairs, haven't you? it is amazing how
> deep a scratch goes when force is used. Remember that the Alclad
> pure coating is not very thick. Five percent on each side for a
> total of 10 percent coating. So 0.032" means 0.0016" on each
> surface. On the RV-12 using 0.020 skin it is even more critical.
> Just hand force used on a tool can permanently stretch the skin -
> forever.
>
> "Skin knives" and "thread taps" are two ways to get quickly busted.
> We use them, on the sly and with high degree of situational
> awareness and desire for job security.
>
> John - back to GRAVES tonight after two weeks with real aviators.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 7:13 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Leak Proofing the Fuel Sender
>
>
> Same reason you don't use steel wool on aluminum. It can initiate
> corrosion. Yes, steel scrapers will scratch the aluminum and can
> generate all the issues of deep scratches. Phenolic scrapers, or
> scrap plexiglass ground into a scraper works pretty well.
> I don't disagree with Dan using what he did for that purpose(getting
> to skins apart), IF you recognize that close inspection will be
> required and you may have to scrap a piece if it gets too scratched.
> On way of reducing risk is to select stainless steel putty knife, to
> minimize the corrosion aspect.
> Of course John is giving you the airline point of view, where tanks
> frequently need attention, and costs are much higher, as are risks,
> along with the maximum level of regulation/oversight. Different
> standards, different needs...but the physics of steel and aluminum
> remain the same.
>
> On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 9:58 PM, John Ackerman
> <johnag5b@cableone.net> wrote:
>> <johnag5b@cableone.net>
>>
>> John, what is the reason given for no metallic scrapers? Crack
>> initiation?
>> Accidental cuts and gouges?
>> What do you do if you need something very thin as Dan did (see
>> below)?
>> John Ackerman 40458
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 3, 2008, at 5:25 PM, John Cox wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Not to attract contrarian comments but the use of metallic
>>> scrapers on
>>> aluminum might be best avoided. We regularly complete such tasks
>>> with the
>>> use of MEK and plastic scrapers (and barrier gloves). Razor blades
>>> and putty
>>> knifes are a quick way to be pointed to the door on air carrier
>>> aircraft.
>>> Your family members deserve no less.
>>>
>>>> . Removing the side with the cork gasket was much easier, since
>>>> the cork
>>>> is soft and a putty knife can be slipped in between the pieces
>>>> and the cover
>>>> plate pried away and popped loose without much difficulty. The
>>>> ProSeal only
>>>> side was quite a bit more difficult to break loose, !
>>>> and required sliding a single edge razor blade between the bonded
>>>> surfaces most of the way around the circumference of the cover
>>>> plate.
>>>> However, when it came loose it was somewhat easier to clean up
>>>> using a
>>>> razor blade as a scraper combined with MEK.
>>>>
>>>> So the decision to use a gasket or not really comes down to ease of
>>>> future maintenance. Either way keeps the fuel in the tank.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>> -Dan Masys
>>>> RV-10 N104LD back from OSH
>>>> RV-7A N747DL
>>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | NTSB checking Door Pins |
This may involve their investigation of 415EC?
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pascal
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: NTSB checking Door Pins
so the question is.. why are they doing this? NTSB wouldn't do it unless
they are looking for a consistent issue that could result in an accident or
has resulted in an accident they are reviewing.
Pascal
From: Dave Saylor <mailto:Dave@AirCraftersLLC.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:26 AM
Subject: RV10-List: NTSB checking Door Pins
On Saturday afternoon I was at the plane getting things set up to leave.
Three guys from the NTSB came up and asked if they could measure my door
pins.
Jeff Guzzetti (guzzetj@ntsb.gov) said they have had a number of contacts
from RV-10 owners, and explained that they are doing a field study to see
how far the pins extend. They measured the pins both extended and
retracted, and photographed the guide blocks. I have all the stock system,
and some of my blocks are cracking at the outboard tangent of the pin hole.
I gotta fix that.
They wrote everything down and promised to share the findings with me. I
tried to peek at the other measurements from other planes but no joy.
I have never heard of the NTSB doing anything like that, so I asked Ken
Krueger a few minutes later what was up and he confirmed that they measured
Van's 10 as well. I don't know how many others were inspected.
I think the NTSB's attention is a good thing, but I could swear I felt a new
draft of air from the leading edge of the door all the way home...
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
N921AC, 202 hours
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 26
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| Subject: | re: Center Console - Buyer's remorse |
I have a case of buyer's remorse. I sent money to Lancair Avionics shortly
after OSH last year. I had returned the center console to Accuracy Avioni
cs for reasons that I won't go into here. For the record, Tony Sustare too
k very good care of me. My hat is off to him. I then negotiated a deal wi
th Lancair to provide a center console and panel for my plane.
Things with Lancair have not gone well. A year later, I still don't have t
he panel that I expected. I have now filed a claim in small claims court a
nd filed for a reversal of the final $12,045 charge on my Visa bill. Once
the case is settled, I will provide details to inquiring minds off list. I
have not gone public until now, since I don't want Lancair to have ammunit
ion to use against me in court.
Indeed, I helped them prototype a new panel that is an inch lower than the
standard panel. It has the large vents molded in and set at an angle. It
will be marvelous once it is installed. HOWEVER...I was put on the back bu
rner multiple times. I was told that my panel was put on hold while they t
ried to get their new ship into the air for SNF...only to then have it put
on hold for OSH this year. Part of why I say beware is this...I had a conve
rsation with employees and former employees stating that they won't be doin
g any more RV's. So while they have a GREAT center console and exactly the
panel I wanted for my plane... I wouldn't send them any money anytime so
on.
My plane should have been at OSH this year...and wasn't. I was promised th
at I would have my panel before Thanksgiving '07...and didn't get it until
JUNE '08. And it was WRONG! When all the dust has settled... it will be a
fabulous plane. Someday it will fly.
I would ask that NO ONE contact Lancair about this situation. I felt an ob
ligation provide a heads up when the question of center consoles came up.
Do business with Lancair at your own risk with your eyes wide open.
All I can say is - BUYER BEWARE!
Pete James #40100
=======
Time: 04:54:27 PM PST US
From: "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca>
Subject: RV10-List: Center console
Hi
Does anyone have a source for a center console similar to the ones sold by
Accuracy Avionics? I don't need a panel, just the center console along with
a storage box. I have fabbed an aluminum one but I really like the look of
the ones I saw at KOSH.
Inquiring minds need to know
Les Kearney
#40643
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted |
at OSH
Well, the catch was, on this particular area, that you end up
HAVING to fill one part of that seam, but then it just
comes out of nowhere and goes forward. I think this particular
seam would look better filled. For the others, I actually
agree with you. One look I really like is that look of
a high-build clearcoat so the rivets look like they're
buried under the clear, but you can see them.
I don't agree with Jesse on that seam either. I think if you
use West system that you won't get any cracking at all if
you fill it. If you tried to use bondo, I wouldn't make
a money bet. With West system though, I'm sure it would work
great.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
nukeflyboy wrote:
>
> Another $0.02 It never bothered me to see rivet lines on aluminum
> airplanes. They are supposed to be there. What doesn't make sense
> to me is using filler (aka weight) to make it look like a compost
> aircraft.
>
> -------- Dave Moore RV-6 flying RV-10 QB building fuselage
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196666#196666
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
Dave,
Just to reiterate.....I personally didn't see your trim tabs.
I was passing along someone else's observation that they thought
should be talked about...the guy that left the note. So I
can't claim to know there is in fact a problem. If they're
even in cruise, and you get them both at neutral together
and they move up together and down together, I'm betting you're
fine. You're right, that one tab does move up a small amount
and then down, as the right tab continues up. But as long as
it's not going negative, I doubt it's an issue. It maybe
moves 1/8 or 3/16" I'm guessing. I'd have to look in person
and measure to know for sure.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Dave Saylor wrote:
>
> One of the reasons I brought the plane to OSH was to get some feedback.
> Like anyone, I wish my plane was perfect, although I think we all benefit. I
> did get a note left for me about the trim tabs, and I appreciate it. I'll
> look at them again.
>
> I had lots of time on the way home to observe the elevators in cruise. They
> were as close to even left to right as I could judge.
>
> I worked quite a bit to get the tabs to be both up or both down. The best I
> could get was as Tim described--one just starting up, then down as the other
> moved from up to down. What would be really helpful for me is to know how
> much the"up then down" tab should deflect "opposite" when it does so. I
> recall mine goes about 1/8" before it starts down again, but I'm not at the
> plane. I'll check again.
>
> Thanks for the comments.
>
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters LLC
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA
> 831-722-9141
> 831-750-0284 CL
> www.AirCraftersLLC.com
>
> N921AC 202 hours, just back from OSH
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 6:34 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
>
>
> Was talking to another RV-10 pilot at OSH just before I left and he told me
> he peeked at some of the RV-10's that flew in and looked for asymmetrical
> trim tab deployment. As we've discussed in the past, the tabs should be
> both neutral at the same time, but when they go up, only one goes up (the
> other does move up a tiny amount), and when they go down, they both should
> go down.
> You should never have a situation where one goes up and one goes down.
>
> Having only one tab move up may sound crazy, but that's how it's supposed to
> work, and keep in mind that this isn't strange at all....many planes and
> even the other RV's are built with only one trim tab on one side. But, what
> makes our case unique is that if the builder screws up the rigging, they can
> end up with the 2 tabs in opposite deflections.....and if you follow the
> plans, you will likely have a small misalignment.
>
> These observations were not made by me, but were brought to my attention:
> So what was observed was that N921AC has some asymmetrical trim, then
> another unpainted RV-10 had a worse condition of asymmetrical trim. But the
> one that took the prize was one of the build-for-customer RV-10's that was
> at the show....
> from what I was told, that RV-10 had one trim tab that was approx. 10
> degrees up, while the other tab was approx. 10 deg down. NOW, the
> interesting thing was, the person also noticed that it appeared that this
> particular RV-10 may have had a little compression deformity of that rear
> bulkhead noted in the SB.
>
> Perhaps next year at OSH we should have a gathering to specifically look at
> some noted areas of every RV-10 and self-group-check for any potential
> safety issues?
> This year I just looked at all the pretty planes.
> Pretty good turnout overall.
>
> --
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
Dave,
Ouch....that sucks about the rudder cables.
You know, the worst thing I think I saw at OSH was when
that first-flying unpainted one showed up what....3 years
ago? A whole bundle of wires was routed down
into the tunnel where the brake lines come up through the
notched cutout in the tunnel cover. That whole bundle
of wires was laying against the cutout edge of that notch
in the cover....and over time it was definitely going to
cut into some of those wires. I cringed when I saw it.
They had no grommet or protector on that cutout at all.
I always wondered how long that one would last. Not sure
what happened to it after it had the hard landing that
crunched it pretty good from what I heard.
But yeah, if it were me, I'd be thrilled to get someone pointing
out safety issues with my plane.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
nukeflyboy wrote:
>
> I just finished putting the rudder cables in mine so this caught my
> eye. One of the 10s at OSH had its rudder cable aft plastic tubes
> (that protect the skin and rear bulkhead) pushed too far forward.
> The cable will start sawing the skin. I never saw the owner, and
> some guys don't appreciate the feedback. For me, you can never have
> too many eyes on a project. It is cheap insurance and good QC.
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
Excellent thread Tim!
I too noticed several trims that could have been better, including mine as it
turns out. I had a great conversation with several builders at the -10 camp.
I really learned alot and I look forward to learning more.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196717#196717
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: re: Center Console - Buyer's remorse |
My panel and center console are from Lancair and I knew from many that they
had issues with building the panel so I just ordered the panel and center
console from them and did all my own wiring. When I ordered my panel they
were quoting 12 months to deliver the completed panel. =0AI was actually v
ery impressed with the speed at which my panel and center console came. Th
e fit/finish and painting was very nice. =0A=0AI don't understand how they
get themselves into these situations after doing this for many many years.
=0ASorry to hear about your frustration James. That is too bad. =0A=0AI
know some want a center console but after I have had one and flown with on
e, I wouldn't miss it if I didn't have one. =0AIt really isn't all that la
rge to hold stuff and I could have made side pockets by my feet or somethin
g under the dash in the center that hold just about as much. =0AIt is sort
of like a junk drawer at home. I find myself grabbing the center bar more
than resting my arm on the center console. =0AIt sure makes maintenance an
d the annual easier without it and of course it will be lighter. Then ther
e is the fact that is does take up some leg room. =0AI love the way it loo
ks and I wouldn't change anything now but I might not go through all the wo
rk again if I did it all over. =0A=0A Scott Schmidt=0Ascottmschmidt@yahoo.c
om=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "James, Peter [SD]" <P
eter.James@sprint.com>=0ATo: "rv10-list@matronics.com" <rv10-list@matronics
.com>=0ASent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 12:29:06 PM=0ASubject: RV10-List: re:
Center Console - Buyer's remorse=0A=0A =0AI have a case of buyer=92s=0Are
morse. I sent money to Lancair Avionics shortly after OSH last year. I ha
d returned the=0Acenter console to Accuracy Avionics for reasons that I won
=92t go into=0Ahere. For the record, Tony Sustare took very good care of m
e. My=0Ahat is off to him. I then negotiated a deal with Lancair to provi
de a=0Acenter console and panel for my plane.=0A =0AThings with Lancair hav
e not=0Agone well. A year later, I still don=92t have the panel that I exp
ected. =0AI have now filed a claim in small claims court and filed for a re
versal of the final=0A$12,045 charge on my Visa bill. Once the case is set
tled, I will provide=0Adetails to inquiring minds off list. I have not gon
e public until now,=0Asince I don=92t want Lancair to have ammunition to us
e against me in court.=0A =0AIndeed, I helped them=0Aprototype a new panel
that is an inch lower than the standard panel. It=0Ahas the large vents mo
lded in and set at an angle. It will be marvelous=0Aonce it is installed.
HOWEVER=85I was put on the back burner multiple=0Atimes. I was told that
my panel was put on hold while they tried to get=0Atheir new ship into the
air for SNF=85only to then have it put on hold for OSH this year. Part of
=0Awhy I say beware is this=85I had a conversation with employees and forme
r=0Aemployees stating that they won=92t be doing any more RV=92s. So=0Awhi
le they have a GREAT center console and exactly the panel I wanted for my
=0Aplane=85 I wouldn=92t send them any money anytime soon.=0A =0AMy plane
should have been at OSH this year=85and=0Awasn=92t. I was promised that I
would have my panel before Thanksgiving=0A=9107=85and didn=92t get it unti
l JUNE =9208. And it was WRONG! =0AWhen all the dust has settled=85 it wil
l be a fabulous plane. Someday=0Ait will fly.=0A =0AI would ask that NO ON
E contact Lancair=0Aabout this situation. I felt an obligation provide a h
eads up when the=0Aquestion of center consoles came up. Do business with L
ancair at your own=0Arisk with your eyes wide open.=0A =0AAll I can say is
- BUYER BEWARE!=0APete=0AJames #40100 =0A =0A =0A========
=0ATime: 04:54:27 PM PST US=0AFrom: "Les=0AKearney" <kearney@shaw.ca>=0ASub
ject: RV10-List: Center=0Aconsole=0A =0A =0AHi=0A =0ADoes anyone have a sou
rce=0Afor a center console similar to the ones sold by=0AAccuracy Avionics?
I don't=0Aneed a panel, just the center console along with=0Aa storage box
. I have fabbed=0Aan aluminum one but I really like the look of=0Athe ones
I saw at KOSH.=0A =0AInquiring minds need to know=0A =0ALes Kearney=0A#4064
=========================0A
======
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
Does anyone know which plane was used for spin testing of the RV-10?
I would not be surprised if it was the green and white one and that is where the
cracks originated from.
The loading that a couple of rotations in a spin could be an issue though.
I was just curious. With only one plane with the issue makes me wonder what type
of loading that plane has seen that no one else has seen.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Geico266 <Geico266@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 1:28:44 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
Excellent thread Tim!
I too noticed several trims that could have been better, including mine as it turns
out. I had a great conversation with several builders at the -10 camp. I
really learned alot and I look forward to learning more.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196717#196717
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
It was N410RV (the yellow one). You can still see the mount points for
the spin chute on the tailcone.
Bob
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
Does anyone know which plane was used for spin testing of the RV-10?
I would not be surprised if it was the green and white one and that is
where the cracks originated from.
The loading that a couple of rotations in a spin could be an issue
though.
I was just curious. With only one plane with the issue makes me wonder
what type of loading that plane has seen that no one else has seen.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Geico266 <Geico266@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 1:28:44 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
Message 34
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| Subject: | The rear bulkhead SB |
Maybe this is the plane Nasa used for Oregon aero's High G seating ??
etc..
Seat Cushion Testing:
Cushions Pass Full Scale 19G Lumbar Load Test
FULL SCALE, REAL TIME TEST - While a highly modified seat with
Oregon Aero cushions was used in the pictured test conducted at NASA a
few years ago - and the Oregon Aero cushions passed the test - Oregon
Aero is developing a complete seat (frame, pan and cushions, with and
without legs) that will pass this test and be comfortable, reliable and
affordable.
Pascal
From: Scott Schmidt
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
Does anyone know which plane was used for spin testing of the RV-10?
I would not be surprised if it was the green and white one and that is
where the cracks originated from.
The loading that a couple of rotations in a spin could be an issue
though.
I was just curious. With only one plane with the issue makes me wonder
what type of loading that plane has seen that no one else has seen.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Geico266 <Geico266@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 1:28:44 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: The rear bulkhead SB |
No wonder the bulkhead cracked! =0A=0A=0ADo not archive =0A=0AScott Schmid
t=0Ascottmschmidt@yahoo.com=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFro
m: pascal <pascal@rv10builder.net>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tu
esday, August 5, 2008 3:33:11 PM=0ASubject: RV10-List: The rear bulkhead SB
=0A=0A=0AMaybe this is the plane Nasa used for =0AOregon aero's High G sea
ting ?? etc.. =0A=0ASeat Cushion Testing:=0ACushions Pass Full Scale 19G L
umbar Load Test =0A=0A =0A =0AFULL SCALE, REAL TIME TEST =97 While a
highly modified seat with Oregon Aero cushions was used in the pictured t
est conducted at NASA a few years ago =97 and the Oregon Aero cushions pas
sed the test =97 Oregon Aero is developing a complete seat (frame, pan and
cushions, with and without legs) that will pass this test and be comforta
ble, reliable and affordable. =0A =0A =0APascal=0A=0A=0AFrom: Scott Schmid
t =0ASent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 1:06 PM=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com
=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Asymmetrical trim noted at =0AOSH=0A=0ADoes
=0Aanyone know which plane was used for spin testing of the RV-10? =0AI
=0Awould not be surprised if it was the green and white one and that is whe
re the =0Acracks originated from. =0A=0AThe loading that a couple of rotat
ions in =0Aa spin could be an issue though. =0AI was just curious. With o
nly =0Aone plane with the issue makes me wonder what type of loading that p
lane has =0Aseen that no one else has seen. =0A=0A Scott =0ASchmidt=0Ascot
tmschmidt@yahoo.com=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A----- =0AOriginal Message ----=0AFrom: Ge
ico266 <Geico266@aol.com>=0ATo: =0Arv10-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday,
August 5, 2008 1:28:44 PM=0ASubject: =0ARV10-List: Re: Asymmetrical trim n
oted at OSH=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Atitle="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-
List=0ACTRL + Click to follow link" href="http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List=0Ahref="http:
//forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.ma
tronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: new products |
I did not make it out to OSH but kept track of all the announcement virtually.
After waiting for Garmin to come out with a touch screen portable GPS, Bendix/King
beat them to the punch.
https://www.bendixking.com/AV8OR/
Not sure if this was a OSH but it seems someone has already developed a manual
spring bias rudder trim for RV's.
http://www.mlskunkworks.embarqspace.com/#/ruddertrim/4528455343
Then there is the Lycoming FADEC TEO-540 that no one seems to have a picture of.
Lycoming is certifying the IO-390 and seeking an STC first for the Cardinal 177
RG. Maybe Vans will develop a IO-390 Firewall Forward kit for the RV-10, but
I doubt it.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
>
> Yes, I will look forward to Alex's feedback on how well the P-Mag
> works. I have been talking to the P-mag guys now for 3 years on
> getting the 6-cyl version going. Their design, from what I have seen,
> is very simple both from an installation and a timing aspect, which
> makes it very attractive to the amateur-built market. Also, the lack
> of dependence on the aircraft electrical system puts it well above the
> other offering(s) in my mind.
>
> I have been talking with Brent Maule about their new plane with the
> SMA for over a year now. They really like the engine so far. They
> say the economy is great and that it is very smooth considering it is
> a diesel.
>
> Would anybody like to comment on their thoughts about Dynon's new
> offering? Way too soon to be displaying a product slated for sometime
> in 2009? Maybe just following suit with the other major players in
> the experimental EFIS market? Personally, I can't wait to see the
> final product and the Dynon-ish price tag and simplicity. We'll see.
>
> Rob's prop looked great, although I really see the need to get true
> comparison numbers. Rob, is it a 12" spinner? How about finding
> someone who would be interested in loaning you their metal prop for a
> day of testing? We have yet to get that test done with any of the
> different prop offerings. Do we have any idea what the cost will be.
>
> While not a new offering, I know there are a number of people still
> waiting to hear numbers on the Barrett Cold Air Induction system. Is
> Gary still the only one flying with that? He said he was going to be
> getting together with Tim to compare numbers. May I propose that we
> get you to do a max MP comparison at 10-14-18,000 feet? With the
> standard IO-540 max MP is just over 15 at 17,500, so another inch or
> two would go a long way and possibly even increase fuel economy as IAS
> is below what we consider to be best glide, so a little boost in MP
> would possibly get the best economy at those altitudes.
>
> Numbers on the James cowl would be nice to get when one is flying. I
> don't ever remember hearing numbers on the one flying in Canada.
>
> Is there any more information on the turbo-charged -10 down in
> Australia? I remember that being mentioned once on the forum a year
> or two ago, but then it dropped off the map.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> Cell: 352-427-0285
> Fax: 815-377-3694
>
> On Aug 4, 2008, at 11:26 PM, David McNeill wrote:
>
> > Apparently the new PMAG for the IO540 is going to be tested on an
> > RV10 starting directly after Oshkosh 2008.
> >
> >
Message 37
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| Subject: | Plasma III to ACS switch wiring diagram |
Does anyone have a detailed wiring diagram of the way you wire up the ignition
switch (I have the ACS master switch) to work with a single Plasma III? My left
Mag is an impulse and the right will be the Plasma III.
I am trying to polish up the wiring diagrams so I can get serious at pulling wires
and this is one of the last little things I need to hash out.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB
(N2GB registered)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196804#196804
Message 38
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| Subject: | Crane on sale @ Harbor Freight |
Listers,
I used a 2 ton Harbor Freight crane and 4 ton load leveler to lift and
hold my empenage during joining to the fuselage (one man job), to fit,
lift and replace the "lid" during fit/sand/fit/sand (one man job), and
to install the engine (again, a one man job).
Harbor Freight has the crane on sale again (catalog 176-1B), this time
for $154.99. The 2-ton load leveler is $30.79, and they also have a
4-ton load leveler. Links follow:
Two ton crane, item 46766,
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46766
Two ton leveler, item 5402:
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=5402&CategoryName=&SubCategoryName
Four ton load leveler, item 5403:
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=5403&CategoryName=&SubCategoryName
TTFN
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 1000 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
Message 39
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This is the same line as last year and my same experience... I thought
it was just me. That post is probably is probably still in the
archives. Made me give greater appreciation to Deems propeller rather
than fund the continued rudeness of the Hartzell sales force.
John Cox
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 5:24 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: SMA Diesel
Interesting thing on the Hartzell 3 blade, having heard that they
would have pricing available at OSH I stopped by their booth to find out
how much fully expecting it to be in the 10-15k range. I was basically
told they had no information and if I wanted to put it on a RV-10 I
would have to get everyone to bug Van's to carry it otherwise I was out
of luck. Easier solution to me is sticking with an MT, no bugging Van's
and plenty of people from MT willing to discuss. J Guess that's why
Hartzell usually had a bunch of employees standing around talking
amongst themselves every time I walked by.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: SMA Diesel
I look forward to SMAs success in convincing VAN to consider a second
engine option other than the Lycoming IO-540. I will say prayers and
wish them luck for our brethren over the pond that have a hard time with
100LL avgas. I am adding Rob Hickman's 3 blade composite Hartzell to
those prayers as well.
I was just getting all excited about the Lycoming TEO-540-A ie2 engine
having about the same chance. I was also sorry to hear that John
Delamarter is no longer with Thunderbolt.
Let's start posting about all the new vendor products to get things
rolling again.
John Cox
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: OSH RV-10 Nose Wheel Pants & Fairing |
Robin,
That 10 is based here in Rapid City, SD and is owned by Curt Grote. The work your
referring to was done by Gaylen Wilts of Sioux Falls, SD. I will forward
your request to Curt in hopes he will contact you. If not let me know and I will
get you some pictures.
Jerry Petersen
jpeter@rushmore.com
--- On Mon, 8/4/08, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com> wrote:
> From: Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: OSH RV-10 Nose Wheel Pants & Fairing
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 11:50 PM
> <robin1@mrmoisture.com>
>
> Thanks everyone at OSH that made this year special.
> I neglected to photograph a mostly white -10 (from North or
> South
> Dakota) on the flight line that had some spectacular yet
> subtle
> fiberglass work. I am specifically referring to the Nose
> Wheel Pants and
> Leg Fairing. This builder changed the geometry of the leg
> fairing as it
> intersected the wheel pants giving the transition a flat
> surface for the
> wheel to pivot vs. the standard Vans look. The builder also
> built up the
> leading edge of the Nose Wheel Pant for a smooth transition
> to the Leg
> Fairing.
> If anyone took a picture that assembly would you please
> forward me a
> copy?
>
> Thanks,
> Robin
> Do Not Archive
>
> Robin@PaintTheWeb.com
>
>
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: OSH RV-10 Nose Wheel Pants & Fairing |
Robin,
I've got a picture of it, and will post it and all of the other OSHpics when I
return next week.
Deems Davis
in Souix City enroute to Long Island
---- jerry petersen <bldanrv9a@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Robin,
>
> That 10 is based here in Rapid City, SD and is owned by Curt Grote. The work
your referring to was done by Gaylen Wilts of Sioux Falls, SD. I will forward
your request to Curt in hopes he will contact you. If not let me know and I
will get you some pictures.
>
> Jerry Petersen
> jpeter@rushmore.com
>
>
> --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com>
> > Subject: RV10-List: OSH RV-10 Nose Wheel Pants & Fairing
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 11:50 PM
> > <robin1@mrmoisture.com>
> >
> > Thanks everyone at OSH that made this year special.
> > I neglected to photograph a mostly white -10 (from North or
> > South
> > Dakota) on the flight line that had some spectacular yet
> > subtle
> > fiberglass work. I am specifically referring to the Nose
> > Wheel Pants and
> > Leg Fairing. This builder changed the geometry of the leg
> > fairing as it
> > intersected the wheel pants giving the transition a flat
> > surface for the
> > wheel to pivot vs. the standard Vans look. The builder also
> > built up the
> > leading edge of the Nose Wheel Pant for a smooth transition
> > to the Leg
> > Fairing.
> > If anyone took a picture that assembly would you please
> > forward me a
> > copy?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Robin
> > Do Not Archive
> >
> > Robin@PaintTheWeb.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: OSH RV-10 Nose Wheel Pants & Fairing |
That SUX
You are missing the best of the monsoon season...........8-)
On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 7:41 PM, <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Robin,
> I've got a picture of it, and will post it and all of the other OSHpics
> when I return next week.
>
> Deems Davis
> in Souix City enroute to Long Island
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: new products |
Hi All,
Just for a few talking points. I just received my engine from Barrett. This
is a Lycoming IO-540-X engine with Barrett Cold Air Induction, Airflow Performance
Injection, John Forsling Headers, Slick Mags and every thing else stock.
It dyno'ed out at 280 HP @ 2700 RPM. How it will do in the plane once built
is anyones guess?
Pmag told me they are close to going into production. Their quote was
they had two more parts to produce before they start assembly. As far as the running
version I took it that was to tweak the software. These will go on my engine
when they become available.
Ed Hershberger
SB Fuselage
N410EP (Reserved)
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>
Yes, I will look forward to Alex's feedback on how well the P-Mag works. I have
been talking to the P-mag guys now for 3 years on getting the 6-cyl version
going. Their design, from what I have seen, is very simple both from an installation
and a timing aspect, which makes it very attractive to the amateur-built
market. Also, the lack of dependence on the aircraft electrical system puts
it well above the other offering(s) in my mind.
I have been talking with Brent Maule about their new plane with the SMA for over
a year now. They really like the engine so far. They say the economy is great
and that it is very smooth considering it is a diesel.
Would anybody like to comment on their thoughts about Dynon's new offering? Way
too soon to be displaying a product slated for sometime in 2009? Maybe just
following suit with the other major players in the experimental EFIS market?
Personally, I can't wait to see the final product and the Dynon-ish price tag
and simplicity. We'll see.
Rob's prop looked great, although I really see the need to get true comparison
numbers. Rob, is it a 12" spinner? How about finding someone who would be interested
in loaning you their metal prop for a day of testing? We have yet to
get that test done with any of the different prop offerings. Do we have any
idea what the cost will be.
While not a new offering, I know there are a number of people still waiting to
hear numbers on the Barrett Cold Air Induction system. Is Gary still the only
one flying with that? He said he was going to be getting together with Tim to
compare numbers. May I propose that we get you to do a max MP comparison at
10-14-18,000 feet? With the standard IO-540 max MP is just over 15 at 17,500,
so another inch or two would go a long way and possibly even increase fuel economy
as IAS is below what we consider to be best glide, so a little boost in
MP would possibly get the best economy at those altitudes.
Numbers on the James cowl would be nice to get when one is flying. I don't ever
remember hearing numbers on the one flying in Canada.
Is there any more information on the turbo-charged -10 down in Australia? I remember
that being mentioned once on the forum a year or two ago, but then it dropped
off the map.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Aug 4, 2008, at 11:26 PM, David McNeill wrote:
Apparently the new PMAG for the IO540 is going to be tested on an RV10 starting
directly after Oshkosh 2008.
<html><body>
<DIV>Hi All,</DIV>
<DIV> Just for a few talking points. I just
received my engine from Barrett. This is a Lycoming IO-540-X engine with Barrett
Cold Air Induction, Airflow Performance Injection, John Forsling Headers,
Slick Mags and every thing else stock. It dyno'ed out at 280 HP @ 2700 RPM.
How it will do in the plane once built is anyones guess? </DIV>
<DIV> Pmag told me they are close
to going into production. Their quote was they had two more parts to produce before
they start assembly. As far as the running version I took it
that was to tweak the software. These will go on my engine when they become
available.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> Ed Hershberger</DIV>
<DIV> SB Fuselage</DIV>
<DIV> N410EP (Reserved) </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: Jesse Saint
<jesse@saintaviation.com> <BR>Yes, I will look forward to Alex's feedback
on how well the P-Mag works. I have been talking to the P-mag guys now
for 3 years on getting the 6-cyl version going. Their design, from what
I have seen, is very simple both from an installation and a timing aspect, which
makes it very attractive to the amateur-built market. Also, the lack
of dependence on the aircraft electrical system puts it well above the other
offering(s) in my mind.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I have been talking with Brent Maule about their new plane with the SMA for
over a year now. They really like the engine so far. They say the
economy is great and that it is very smooth considering it is a diesel.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Would anybody like to comment on their thoughts about Dynon's new offering?
Way too soon to be displaying a product slated for sometime in 2009? Maybe
just following suit with the other major players in the experimental
EFIS market? Personally, I can't wait to see the final product and the
Dynon-ish price tag and simplicity. We'll see.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Rob's prop looked great, although I really see the need to get true comparison
numbers. Rob, is it a 12" spinner? How about finding someone
who would be interested in loaning you their metal prop for a day of testing?
We have yet to get that test done with any of the different prop offerings.
Do we have any idea what the cost will be.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>While not a new offering, I know there are a number of people still waiting
to hear numbers on the Barrett Cold Air Induction system. Is Gary still
the only one flying with that? He said he was going to be getting together
with Tim to compare numbers. May I propose that we get you to do a
max MP comparison at 10-14-18,000 feet? With the standard IO-540 max MP
is just over 15 at 17,500, so another inch or two would go a long way and possibly
even increase fuel economy as IAS is below what we consider to be best glide,
so a little boost in MP would possibly get the best economy at those altitudes.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Numbers on the James cowl would be nice to get when one is flying. I
don't ever remember hearing numbers on the one flying in Canada.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Is there any more information on the turbo-charged -10 down in Australia?
I remember that being mentioned once on the forum a year or two ago, but
then it dropped off the map.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV apple-content-edited="true"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING:
0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT:
0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate;
orphans: 2; widows: 2; webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; webkit-border-vertical-spacing:
0px; webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto; webkit-text-stroke-width: 0">
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; webkit-line-break:
after-white-space">
<DIV>Jesse Saint</DIV>
<DIV>Saint Aviation, Inc.</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:jesse@saintaviation.com">jesse@saintaviation.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>Cell: 352-427-0285</DIV>
<DIV>Fax: 815-377-3694</DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Aug 4, 2008, at 11:26 PM, David McNeill wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px;
FONT: 14px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px;
WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans:
2; widows: 2; webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; webkit-border-vertical-spacing:
0px; webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto; webkit-text-stroke-width: 0">
<DIV lang=EN-US link="blue" vlink="purple">
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=460512403-05082008>Apparently
the new PMAG for the IO540 is going to be tested
on an RV10 starting directly after Oshkosh 2008.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><BR></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV><PRE><B><FONT
face="courier new,courier" size=2
color000000?>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Asymmetrical trim , and other things |
I spoke with another -10 builder about the weird (to me) trim assembly.
I was postulating that if both trim cables ended up in the same hole on
the trim arm (either one), the asymmetrical issue would go away. His
comment was that it was designed that way for a reason, and that nobody
had issues so why not assemble to plans. OK, it seems that it is an
issue ..... but other than the slight asymmetrical problem .... is this
really a non-issue???
I'm assembling the tail surfaces to the fuselage, and I have two
problems ...... how do you get washers and nuts on the bottom flat-head
screws? I can't get my arms down that far!!! What an ideal place for a
nutplate!!!
How do you get the washers in between the elevator arms and the center
bearing??? Piece of cake without the vertical fin in place ..... but now???
When I hook up the rudder cables (remember that my cables hook up inside
the tunnel but that shouldn't change things) the pedals aren't even. It
would be a simple matter to drill the links to fit, but has anyone else
had the problem???
Linn .... this thing is getting bigger all the time!!!
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Constructive Feedback was Asymmetrical trim noted a |
t OSH
Few more .02 worth,
I have seen very little cracking on this cosmetic filled part of the RV1
0 when the proper fillers are used. If you feel with your hand over the
top of the plane in front of the windscreen it is fairly wavy over the
ribsn and down the sides. Most people are not trying to HIDE the rivets
and make it a composite plane.........even though the entire canopy and
cowl is composite, they are trying to blend it in and make it SLEEK jus
t as you do at the rear of the canopy where it meet the empenage. Again
, there is no right or wrong to HOW this is done, only a better finished
aircraft to the eye. As far as weight, most are adding more in the av
ionics area or the interior that would be less important IMHO.
Dean
____________________________________________________________
It's never too old to date. Senior Dating. Click Here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iig7plLPu7qbickwqYxITYM
XKH130jgUHCxKjy33lNCAJrsFu/
Message 46
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| Subject: | Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH |
I reviewed my tab positions and found the worst case to be when the right
tab had gone below neutral about 1/8". At that point the left tab had gone
slightly back up to about 1/8" above neutral.
Now I get to use the caveat of the day: I took airloads into account,
meaning I pushed each tab with some moderate pressure back towards neutral,
as air would do in flight. Before removing the slack, I was measuring maybe
a hair over 3/16".
So, I rigged my right tab to be neutral when the left had returned up a to
its highest point, so now there is never any opposite deflection. They are
always either both up or both down, or one is neutral. That took about
three turns out on the right clevis end.
At that point, something Tim wrote made perfect sense: Most planes only
have one trim tab. Doesn't that impart a twist? The fact that one is up
and one is down isn't necessarily a bad thing--I guess it's a matter of
degree. At some point I'm going to impart the same twisting force, but it
will be from a single tab that's deflected further.
Well, either way, I'm pretty sure mine is OK. As noted earlier, the
elevators are evenly deflected in cruise.
Now on to the doors.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
N921AC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
Dave,
Just to reiterate.....I personally didn't see your trim tabs.
I was passing along someone else's observation that they thought should be
talked about...the guy that left the note. So I can't claim to know there
is in fact a problem. If they're even in cruise, and you get them both at
neutral together and they move up together and down together, I'm betting
you're fine. You're right, that one tab does move up a small amount and
then down, as the right tab continues up. But as long as it's not going
negative, I doubt it's an issue. It maybe moves 1/8 or 3/16" I'm guessing.
I'd have to look in person and measure to know for sure.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Dave Saylor wrote:
> --> <Dave@aircraftersllc.com>
>
> One of the reasons I brought the plane to OSH was to get some feedback.
> Like anyone, I wish my plane was perfect, although I think we all
> benefit. I did get a note left for me about the trim tabs, and I
> appreciate it. I'll look at them again.
>
> I had lots of time on the way home to observe the elevators in cruise.
> They were as close to even left to right as I could judge.
>
> I worked quite a bit to get the tabs to be both up or both down. The
> best I could get was as Tim described--one just starting up, then down
> as the other moved from up to down. What would be really helpful for
> me is to know how much the"up then down" tab should deflect "opposite"
> when it does so. I recall mine goes about 1/8" before it starts down
> again, but I'm not at the plane. I'll check again.
>
> Thanks for the comments.
>
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters LLC
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA
> 831-722-9141
> 831-750-0284 CL
> www.AirCraftersLLC.com
>
> N921AC 202 hours, just back from OSH
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 6:34 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Asymmetrical trim noted at OSH
>
>
> Was talking to another RV-10 pilot at OSH just before I left and he
> told me he peeked at some of the RV-10's that flew in and looked for
> asymmetrical trim tab deployment. As we've discussed in the past, the
> tabs should be both neutral at the same time, but when they go up,
> only one goes up (the other does move up a tiny amount), and when they
> go down, they both should go down.
> You should never have a situation where one goes up and one goes down.
>
> Having only one tab move up may sound crazy, but that's how it's
> supposed to work, and keep in mind that this isn't strange at
> all....many planes and even the other RV's are built with only one
> trim tab on one side. But, what makes our case unique is that if the
> builder screws up the rigging, they can end up with the 2 tabs in
> opposite deflections.....and if you follow the plans, you will likely have
a small misalignment.
>
> These observations were not made by me, but were brought to my attention:
> So what was observed was that N921AC has some asymmetrical trim, then
> another unpainted RV-10 had a worse condition of asymmetrical trim.
> But the one that took the prize was one of the build-for-customer
> RV-10's that was at the show....
> from what I was told, that RV-10 had one trim tab that was approx. 10
> degrees up, while the other tab was approx. 10 deg down. NOW, the
> interesting thing was, the person also noticed that it appeared that
> this particular RV-10 may have had a little compression deformity of
> that rear bulkhead noted in the SB.
>
> Perhaps next year at OSH we should have a gathering to specifically
> look at some noted areas of every RV-10 and self-group-check for any
> potential safety issues?
> This year I just looked at all the pretty planes.
> Pretty good turnout overall.
>
> --
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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