---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/29/08: 49 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:13 AM - Re: Aluminum Door Handles (truflite) 2. 04:54 AM - Re: Fuel Tank lables (orchidman) 3. 05:01 AM - Re: Seat Belt support Bracket (orchidman) 4. 05:03 AM - Boost Pump - On or Off for Takeoff? (jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com) 5. 05:09 AM - Re: Hi Tim. (Scott Schmidt) 6. 05:16 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Tank lables (David McNeill) 7. 05:51 AM - Re: Hi Tim. (Michael Wellenzohn) 8. 06:06 AM - Re: Boost Pump - On or Off for Takeoff? (Rene Felker) 9. 06:10 AM - Re: Vegas crash (Rick Sked) 10. 06:10 AM - Re: Boost Pump - On or Off for Takeoff? (Kelly McMullen) 11. 06:39 AM - Re: Vegas crash (Kelly McMullen) 12. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: Hartzell Composite Three blade (Rob Kermanj) 13. 07:27 AM - Re: Fuel Tank lables (orchidman) 14. 08:23 AM - Re: Re: Hartzell Composite Three blade (RobHickman@aol.com) 15. 09:05 AM - Re: Re: Hartzell Composite Three blade (Rob Kermanj) 16. 09:55 AM - Re: Vegas crash (woxofswa) 17. 10:28 AM - Re: Seat Belt support Bracket (Cal Hoffman) 18. 11:53 AM - Avemco Insurance Quote (Robin Marks) 19. 12:07 PM - Re: Avemco Insurance Quote (Dj Merrill) 20. 12:53 PM - Re: Avemco Insurance Quote (Robin Marks) 21. 01:14 PM - Re: Avemco Insurance Quote (Dj Merrill) 22. 01:23 PM - Re: Avemco Insurance Quote (William Souza) 23. 02:04 PM - brake linings (David McNeill) 24. 02:04 PM - Re: Avemco Insurance Quote (gary) 25. 03:00 PM - baggage door lock length (pascal) 26. 03:18 PM - Re: Avemco Insurance Quote (Rick Sked) 27. 03:45 PM - filling canopy pinholes-better time than another? (tomhanaway) 28. 03:55 PM - Re: Avemco Insurance Quote (Wndwlkr1228@AOL.COM) 29. 03:56 PM - Re: Avemco Insurance Quote (Doug Preston) 30. 04:04 PM - Re: filling canopy pinholes-better time than another? (Rick Sked) 31. 05:25 PM - Shoulder harness bracket (partner14) 32. 05:43 PM - Re: Shoulder harness bracket (Rick Sked) 33. 05:47 PM - Got PPL (tomhanaway) 34. 05:58 PM - Re: Got PPL (Robin Marks) 35. 06:02 PM - Re: Boost Pump - On or Off for Takeoff? (gengrumpy@aol.com) 36. 06:02 PM - Re: filling canopy pinholes-better time than another? (AndrewTR30) 37. 06:02 PM - Re: filling canopy pinholes-better time than another? (AndrewTR30) 38. 06:18 PM - Re: Re: Hartzell Composite Three blade (John Cox) 39. 06:32 PM - Re: Vegas crash (Rick Sked) 40. 06:33 PM - Re: Re: filling canopy pinholes-better time than another? (Rick Sked) 41. 06:38 PM - Re: baggage door lock length (Lenny Iszak) 42. 07:06 PM - Re: Got PPL (Rick Sked) 43. 07:23 PM - Re: Vegas crash (David McNeill) 44. 07:33 PM - Re: Avemco Insurance Quote (cloudvalley@comcast.net) 45. 07:56 PM - Re: Vegas crash (Rick Sked) 46. 08:34 PM - Re: Vegas crash (John Cox) 47. 09:03 PM - Re: Vegas crash 415MK (David McNeill) 48. 09:05 PM - Re: Vegas crash (Rick Sked) 49. 10:20 PM - Re: Vegas crash (John Cox) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:13:58 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Aluminum Door Handles From: "truflite" Pictures will be forthcoming. I hope to have something in about 2-3 weeks. Have to wait for the factory handles to get here and start design and manufacture the prototype. Stay tuned. Dave -------- David Nellis 7A Slider Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1384#201384 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:34 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Tank lables From: "orchidman" Gary, My check went out yesterday afternoon also. Thanks, Gary -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB (N2GB registered) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1393#201393 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:14 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Seat Belt support Bracket From: "orchidman" Check went out in yesterdays mail. Thanks, Gary -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB (N2GB registered) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1394#201394 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:54 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Boost Pump - On or Off for Takeoff? From: jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com A few days ago the conversation around our hangar was about the use of the electric fuel pump. I reviewed the POHs that were available on Tim's site and still didn't find a clear answer. So to my question, is the electric fuel pump supposed to be on or off during takeoff? The answer to this question even appears to vary in the certified world, some Pipers have it on for takeoff, some Beechcraft have it off. The follow up question of course would be, why, or why not? Thanks, Jason Kreidler 4-Partner Build (Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elsner) Sheboygan Falls, WI #40617 Finishing ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:07 AM PST US From: Scott Schmidt Subject: Re: RV10-List: Hi Tim. Sorry about that all, stupid me forgot to change the To: section. And Werner you are right I was mainly concerned with fuel prices. Can you fly IFR in Switzerland with an Experimental? This country is beautiful. Scott Schmidt Cell 801-718-1277 scottmschmidt@yahoo.com --- On Thu, 8/28/08, Werner Schneider wrote: > From: Werner Schneider > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Hi Tim. > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Date: Thursday, August 28, 2008, 1:40 PM > > > Hi Scott, > > tell me where you are this weekend and I will prove, that > flying in > Switzerland can compete with flying in the US :-) > > > > You might know, the PC-12 and PC-6 are made in Switzerland, > I would > regard the PC-12 as the RV-10 in the certified world (ok a > bit uprated > RV-10) > > > > Sorry, couldn't resist on that. > > Werner > > Scott Schmidt wrote: > > Hi Tim, just wanted to say a quick hi from > Switzerland. We are having > > a great time here and the motorcycling is off the > charts > > incredible. I might as well just sell my bike and > come here once a > > year to ride. We have the best flying though in the > US by far. > > > > Good to hear Ed had his first flight and made it down > OK. I bet that > > was a little stressful. > > I will email you later. It is hard to type on their > keyboards here. > > They switch the z and y. > > Say hi to the girls from RaNae and I. > > > > Scott Schmidt > > Cell 801-718-1277 > > scottmschmidt@yahoo.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Tim Olson > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 9:50:40 PM > > Subject: RV10-List: N929EH Flies! > > > > > > > > > News from Saturday.....fellow RV-10 builder Ed Hayden > > did his 1st flight out in Hillsboro, OR on Saturday > > a.m.! He's got a great looking plane, as you can > > see here: > > > > http://www.myrv10.com/osh2/photos/N929EH.jpg > > > > He's got the Flightline AC system installed, which > is > > one of the things that is unique about his plane. > > He reported that the plane flew beautifully, and > handled > > real well...and he was very pleased with the > performance. > > > > The first flight, however, did not go uneventfully, > > and here is where y'all should listen closely and > prepare > > yourself... > > > > Ed has a lightspeed ignition on one side, and a slick > mag > > on the other, just like I and many other have. In > this > > case, the lightspeed was once again the one good thing > > he had going for him. As I understand it (sorry that > > it's 2nd hand) he got to 1000' on takeoff and > the plane > > started missing real bad....making lots of noise. He > > radioed the tower of his problems and immediate need > > to return to land. He ran it on the lightspeed only > (which > > only gives maybe a 10 RPM drop on the mag test) and > > said he had a beautiful landing. > > > > Upon having an A&P come over and test the mag, it > was > > readily determined that this was indeed a slick mag > > failure. What ISN'T unique about this is that I > now know > > of TWO RV-10 builders who've had slick mags fail > on > > their first > > * > > > > > > * > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:46 AM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Tank lables Not to rain on anyone's parade but fuel tank labels are usually provide at no charge by the paint shops. They do it in quantity for the aircraft that they paint. Also if they are on the plane when sent to the paint shop they will be removed and replaced after the paint. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 4:54 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Tank lables Gary, My check went out yesterday afternoon also. Thanks, Gary -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB (N2GB registered) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1393#201393 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:03 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Hi Tim. From: "Michael Wellenzohn" Hey Scott, if you are close to Zuerich let me contact me would be great to meet up with you. Call +41 78 7905454. I am building my -10 in Zuerich. Best Michael www.wellenzohn.net -------- RV-10 builder (engine, prop, finishing) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1404#201404 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:20 AM PST US From: "Rene Felker" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Boost Pump - On or Off for Takeoff? Here is my opinion...everyone has one. For fuel injected (IO-540) engines, the fuel pump should be on for takeoffs and landings as a precaution against the mechanical fuel pump failing. It is my understanding that on some engine types, you should NOT use the electric fuel pump because it can cause the engine to flood. I have the pump on for takeoffs and landing. Rene' Felker RV-10 N423CF Flying 801-721-6080 From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 6:03 AM Subject: RV10-List: Boost Pump - On or Off for Takeoff? A few days ago the conversation around our hangar was about the use of the electric fuel pump. I reviewed the POHs that were available on Tim's site and still didn't find a clear answer. So to my question, is the electric fuel pump supposed to be on or off during takeoff? The answer to this question even appears to vary in the certified world, some Pipers have it on for takeoff, some Beechcraft have it off. The follow up question of course would be, why, or why not? Thanks, Jason Kreidler 4-Partner Build (Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elsner) Sheboygan Falls, WI #40617 Finishing ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:12 AM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vegas crash And to add to all this a Piper Navajo went into a house=C2-yesterday kill ing the pilot. He lost the right engine on departure and was trying to make it back to the airport, Witnesses said it looked like he was going to make it to Jones Blvd to set it down=C2-but impacted the LARGE power lines th at run along that street, this made him veer into the home, everyone said t he aircraft impacted sideways. Guess we have to ban twin engine aircraft at Las Vegas airports now along with the experimentals. No one on the ground was hurt. FWIW, the Velocity crash last week was the first time since the a irport opened on Decemeber 7, 1941 that anyone on the ground was injured or killed as a result of an aircraft crash. Rick sked 40185 do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "David McNeill" Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 6:10:51 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vegas crash check this; I was in the area and IIRC this was a new supercharger instalat ion. NTSB Identification: LAX04LA322 . The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please contact Records Management Division 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Saturday, September 18, 2004 in Mesa, AZ Probable Cause Approval Date: 1/31/2006 Aircraft: Wolf Glassair IIS, registration: N110UX Injuries: 2 Fatal. Immediately after takeoff the experimental category airplane climbed to 100 feet, rolled left, and collided with terrain. The airplane took off, was a irborne by mid field, and climbed to about 100 feet. After the initial clim b it did not appear to be climbing or accelerating normally. Some witnesses reported that the engine did not sound good and described engine noise flu ctuations. About this time, the pilot transmitted to the local controller t hat he was declaring an emergency and needed to return for landing. The con troller cleared the flight to land on any runway. The airplane then rolled to the left and impacted the ground inverted. The airplane had just complet ed an annual inspection and was undergoing a post maintenance check flight with the pilot and a mechanic onboard. Components that were replaced or ove rhauled during the annual inspection included the engine driven fuel pump, the fuel filter, and the supercharger . A post impact ground fire destroyed many engine components, including those that were replaced at the annual, and consumed the composite airframe. The propeller exhibited evidence of le ading edge polishing, torsional twisting, and chordwise striations. Examina tion of the wreckage found no evidence of a preimpact malfunction or failur e of the control system or powerplant. The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) o f this accident as follows: a partial loss of power for undetermined reason s, and, the failure of the pilot to maintain an adequate airspeed while man euvering for a forced landing that resulted in a stall and a collision with terrain. From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 5:57 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vegas crash I saw this=C2-in the AM also. If you want to see an eerily similar report and result check the NTSB for N110UX. I believe the=C2-latter supercharg er was supplied by a LAS company.=C2- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of GenGrumpy@aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 5:28 PM Subject: RV10-List: Vegas crash Thought I'd pass this along to keep all in the know here. grumpy do not archive Editor's Note: Below is the unedited text of the National Transportation Sa fety Board's preliminary report on last week's fatal crash of a Velocity 17 3RG in North Las Vegas, NV. Of note is the fact the accident flight was to be the first with the engine 's supercharger engaged. According to the owner/builder of the aircraft, se veral high-speed taxi tests had been conducted with the supercharger engage d in the days prior to the accident. As ANN reported , the plane crashed into a home last Friday, just after tak eoff from the North Las Vegas Airport (VGT). The accident claimed the lives of pilot Mack Creekmore Murphree Jr., 76, and two people living inside the home, identified as Jack and Lucy Costa. NTSB Identification: LAX08LA274 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Friday, August 22, 2008 in North Las Vegas, NV Aircraft: Killgore M/Killgore K Velocity 173RG, registration: N415MK Injuries: 3 Fatal. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report=C2- =C2- =C2- will be corrected when the f inal report has been completed. On August 22, 2008, at 0628 Pacific daylight time, an experimental Killgore M/Killgore K Velocity 173RG, N415MK, collided with a residential building in North Las Vegas, Nevada. The airplane is registered to the owner/builder and it was being operated by the pilot under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91. The certificated airline transport pilot and t wo people on the ground were killed. Post impact fire destroyed the airplan e and partially burned the residence. The local flight departed North Las V egas Airport at 0627. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no fl ight plan had been filed. Preliminary information obtained from the Federal Aviation Administration ( FAA) revealed that the airplane departed North Las Vegas from runway 12 lef t. Shortly after takeoff the air traffic controller observed that the airpl ane was not gaining altitude. The controller asked the pilot if he needed a ssistance, to which the pilot responded, "I'm going down, I'm going down." The airplane then collided with a house 1.1 miles southeast of the airport. The owner/builder was interviewed by the National Transportation Safety Boa rd investigator-in-charge after the accident. He reported that the engine w as equipped with a supercharger, and that the purpose of the flight was to test the performance of the airplane and engine with the supercharger engag ed. He further reported that the supercharger was tested on multiple occasi ons during high speed taxi tests and ground runs the week prior to the acci dent, but that this was to be the first time it would be engaged for flight . The pilot held an airline transport pilot certificate with ratings for airp lane single engine land, multiengine land, and instrument airplane. He addi tionally held a flight engineer certificate, mechanic certificate, and a fl ight instructor certificate for airplane single engine, multiengine, and in strument airplane. On his latest FAA third-class medical application, dated September 7, 2006, the pilot stated that he had amassed 6,250 hours of tot al flight time. The canard configuration, four-seat, low-wing, retractable gear airplane, w as issued a Special Airworthiness Certificate on March 9, 2008. It was powe red by a Lycoming IO-360-C1C, engine and equipped with a three bladed MT-Pr opeller, model MTV-18-B. The Experimental Amateur-Built Airplane Operating Limitations for the accid ent airplane specified the following compliance under the section: Phase 1 Limitations-Initial Flight Testing, 'After a minimum time of (5) hours, and after controllability, airworthines s, and safety checks required by FAR 90.319(b) and chapter 4 of Advisory Ci rcular 90.89A are established and recorded in the airplane logbook the airp lane then may complete the remaining hours required in Phase 1 while based at North Las Vegas Airport (VGT); OR, a one time flight to the "Airplane Ba se of Operations" may also be conducted remaining clear of all densely popu lated areas and congested airways. NOTE: Airplane Base of Operations: Show Low Regional Airport (KSOW). This airplane must be operated for at least 25 (Twenty Five) hours in the assigned geographic areas' Review of the airplane maintenance logbook records revealed that on March 1 7, 2008, the airplane had amassed a total flight time of 5.1 hours. A logbo ok entry for that date noted, 'This airplane meets all the controllability, airworthiness, and safety checks required by FAR 91.319(b) and chapter 4 o f advisory circular 90-89A. It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here . href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums .matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.ma tronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http:// www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com"> http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> =================== ==== ======================= == ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:54 AM PST US From: "Kelly McMullen" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Boost Pump - On or Off for Takeoff? Look to aircraft with the same engine and fuel injection and low wings for your answer. Bonanzas have TCM engines with either a Bendix pressure carb or TCM fuel injection, with entirely different requirements than the plane your engine came out of, a Comanche 260. With the RV10, I'd say have it on. The RSA system(or equivalent) isn't sensitive to small variations in fuel pressure, and if the mechanical pump were to fail at 50 ft, you would have a much less eventful flight if you discovered it at 1000 ft when you turned the boost pump off than if the fire went out at 50 ft. On 8/29/08, jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com wrote: > > A few days ago the conversation around our hangar was about the use of the > electric fuel pump. I reviewed the POHs that were available on Tim's site > and still didn't find a clear answer. So to my question, is the electric > fuel pump supposed to be on or off during takeoff? The answer to this > question even appears to vary in the certified world, some Pipers have it on > for takeoff, some Beechcraft have it off. > > The follow up question of course would be, why, or why not? > > Thanks, Jason Kreidler > 4-Partner Build (Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elsner) > Sheboygan Falls, WI > #40617 Finishing > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:30 AM PST US From: "Kelly McMullen" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vegas crash Rick, why don't you notify LAS tower they can't allow any twins any more. ;-) I guess most of the airlines might have just a tad of heartburn over that. Maybe just composite twins......then at least Southwest could continue, while America Worst..oops, US Scare couldn't fly those Scarebuses anymore. Totally tongue in cheek. do not archive. On 8/29/08, Rick Sked wrote: > > > And to add to all this a Piper Navajo went into a house yesterday killing > the pilot. He lost the right engine on departure and was trying to make it > back to the airport, Witnesses said it looked like he was going to make it > to Jones Blvd to set it down but impacted the LARGE power lines that run > along that street, this made him veer into the home, everyone said the > aircraft impacted sideways. Guess we have to ban twin engine aircraft at Las > Vegas airports now along with the experimentals. No one on the ground was > hurt. FWIW, the Velocity crash last week was the first time since the > airport opened on Decemeber 7, 1941 that anyone on the ground was injured or > killed as a result of an aircraft crash. > > Rick sked > > 40185 > > do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David McNeill" > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 6:10:51 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vegas crash > > > check this; I was in the area and IIRC this was a new supercharger > instalation. > > NTSB Identification: LAX04LA322. > The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please contact > Records Management Division > 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation > Accident occurred Saturday, September 18, 2004 in Mesa, AZ > Probable Cause Approval Date: 1/31/2006 > Aircraft: Wolf Glassair IIS, registration: N110UX > Injuries: 2 Fatal. > > Immediately after takeoff the experimental category airplane climbed to 100 > feet, rolled left, and collided with terrain. The airplane took off, was > airborne by mid field, and climbed to about 100 feet. After the initial > climb it did not appear to be climbing or accelerating normally. Some > witnesses reported that the engine did not sound good and described engine > noise fluctuations. About this time, the pilot transmitted to the local > controller that he was declaring an emergency and needed to return for > landing. The controller cleared the flight to land on any runway. The > airplane then rolled to the left and impacted the ground inverted. The > airplane had just completed an annual inspection and was undergoing a post > maintenance check flight with the pilot and a mechanic onboard. Components > that were replaced or overhauled during the annual inspection included the > engine driven fuel pump, the fuel filter, and the supercharger. A post > impact ground fire destroyed many engine components, including those that > were replaced at the annual, and consumed the composite airframe. The > propeller exhibited evidence of leading edge polishing, torsional twisting, > and chordwise striations. Examination of the wreckage found no evidence of a > preimpact malfunction or failure of the control system or powerplant. > > The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of > this accident as follows: a partial loss of power for undetermined reasons, > and, the failure of the pilot to maintain an adequate airspeed while > maneuvering for a forced landing that resulted in a stall and a collision > with terrain. > > > ________________________________ > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > David McNeill > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 5:57 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vegas crash > > > I saw this in the AM also. If you want to see an eerily similar report and > result check the NTSB for N110UX. I believe the latter supercharger was > supplied by a LAS company. > > ________________________________ > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > GenGrumpy@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 5:28 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Vegas crash > > > Thought I'd pass this along to keep all in the know here. > > grumpy > > do not archive > > Editor's Note: Below is the unedited text of the National Transportation > Safety Board's preliminary report on last week's fatal crash of a Velocity > 173RG in North Las Vegas, NV. > > Of note is the fact the accident flight was to be the first with the > engine's supercharger engaged. According to the owner/builder of the > aircraft, several high-speed taxi tests had been conducted with the > supercharger engaged in the days prior to the accident. > > As ANN reported, the plane crashed into a home last Friday, just after > takeoff from the North Las Vegas Airport (VGT). The accident claimed the > lives of pilot Mack Creekmore Murphree Jr., 76, and two people living inside > the home, identified as Jack and Lucy Costa. > NTSB Identification: LAX08LA274 > 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation > Accident occurred Friday, August 22, 2008 in North Las Vegas, NV > Aircraft: Killgore M/Killgore K Velocity 173RG, registration: N415MK > Injuries: 3 Fatal. > > This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. > Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has > been completed. > > On August 22, 2008, at 0628 Pacific daylight time, an experimental Killgore > M/Killgore K Velocity 173RG, N415MK, collided with a residential building in > North Las Vegas, Nevada. The airplane is registered to the owner/builder and > it was being operated by the pilot under the provisions of 14 Code of > Federal Regulations Part 91. The certificated airline transport pilot and > two people on the ground were killed. Post impact fire destroyed the > airplane and partially burned the residence. The local flight departed North > Las Vegas Airport at 0627. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and > no flight plan had been filed. > > Preliminary information obtained from the Federal Aviation Administration > (FAA) revealed that the airplane departed North Las Vegas from runway 12 > left. Shortly after takeoff the air traffic controller observed that the > airplane was not gaining altitude. The controller asked the pilot if he > needed assistance, to which the pilot responded, "I'm going down, I'm going > down." The airplane then collided with a house 1.1 miles southeast of the > airport. > > The owner/builder was interviewed by the National Transportation Safety > Board investigator-in-charge after the accident. He reported that the engine > was equipped with a supercharger, and that the purpose of the flight was to > test the performance of the airplane and engine with the supercharger > engaged. He further reported that the supercharger was tested on multiple > occasions during high speed taxi tests and ground runs the week prior to the > accident, but that this was to be the first time it would be engaged for > flight. > > The pilot held an airline transport pilot certificate with ratings for > airplane single engine land, multiengine land, and instrument airplane. He > additionally held a flight engineer certificate, mechanic certificate, and a > flight instructor certificate for airplane single engine, multiengine, and > instrument airplane. On his latest FAA third-class medical application, > dated September 7, 2006, the pilot stated that he had amassed 6,250 hours of > total flight time. > > > The canard configuration, four-seat, low-wing, retractable gear airplane, > was issued a Special Airworthiness Certificate on March 9, 2008. It was > powered by a Lycoming IO-360-C1C, engine and equipped with a three bladed > MT-Propeller, model MTV-18-B. > > The Experimental Amateur-Built Airplane Operating Limitations for the > accident airplane specified the following compliance under the section: > Phase 1 Limitations-Initial Flight Testing, > > 'After a minimum time of (5) hours, and after controllability, > airworthiness, and safety checks required by FAR 90.319(b) and chapter 4 of > Advisory Circular 90.89A are established and recorded in the airplane > logbook the airplane then may complete the remaining hours required in Phase > 1 while based at North Las Vegas Airport (VGT); OR, a one time flight to the > "Airplane Base of Operations" may also be conducted remaining clear of all > densely populated areas and congested airways. NOTE: Airplane Base of > Operations: Show Low Regional Airport (KSOW). This airplane must be operated > for at least 25 (Twenty Five) hours in the assigned geographic areas' > > Review of the airplane maintenance logbook records revealed that on March > 17, 2008, the airplane had amassed a total flight time of 5.1 hours. A > logbook entry for that date noted, 'This airplane meets all the > controllability, airworthiness, and safety checks required by FAR 91.319(b) > and chapter 4 of advisory circular 90-89A. > > > ________________________________ > It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > > get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > p://forums.matronics.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:27 AM PST US From: Rob Kermanj Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell Composite Three blade Dial your RPM down, You'll do much better. On Aug 25, 2008, at 9:03 PM, RobHickman@aol.com wrote: > I have the MT govenor, speed test is scheduled for this week. > > Jennifer and I flew it to Seattle on Sunday and we got the > following speeds: > > 8500 FT > 2450 RPM > Full Throttle > 169-171 KTS True Airspeed > > Rob Hickman > N402RH RV-10 > > > It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal > here. > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:03 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Tank lables From: "orchidman" dlm46007(at)cox.net wrote: > Not to rain on anyone's parade but fuel tank labels are usually provide at > no charge by the paint shops. They do it in quantity for the aircraft that > they paint. Also if they are on the plane when sent to the paint shop they > will be removed and replaced after the paint. > > -- True, but I will probably fly for several months before I paint. Would like something a little better then a Sharpie for this time period. [Mr. Green] -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB (N2GB registered) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1427#201427 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:20 AM PST US From: RobHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell Composite Three blade In a message dated 8/29/2008 7:11:12 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, flysrv10@gmail.com writes: Dial your RPM down, You'll do much better. I am flying to eastern Washington later today to drop off my neighbors at Moses Lake so I will give different RPM settings a try. Rob Hickman N402RH RV-10 **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:13 AM PST US From: Rob Kermanj Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell Composite Three blade I have been told the IO54 has the most torque around 2200 RPM. I don't remember the source. I have tested different RPMs and I get the best speed around 2250. It kinda adds up, lower RPM has less drag. Rob. On Aug 29, 2008, at 11:21 AM, RobHickman@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/29/2008 7:11:12 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, flysrv10@gmail.com > writes: > Dial your RPM down, You'll do much better. > I am flying to eastern Washington later today to drop off my > neighbors at Moses Lake so I will give different RPM settings a try. > > Rob Hickman > N402RH RV-10 > > > It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal > here. > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:20 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Vegas crash From: "woxofswa" -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1462#201462 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:51 AM PST US From: "Cal Hoffman" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Seat Belt support Bracket Put me on the list for the bracket. Check in the mail on 8/29. Cal Hoffman 97 Myrick Street Barnwell, SC 29812 40119 Fiberglas and Instruments ----- Original Message ----- From: "partner14" Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 11:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: Seat Belt support Bracket > > Ok, it's been redesigned, punched out, tumbled, and ready to install. I > will finish installing mine on Friday. They look great. Not trying to > make money here, just taking advantage of my brothers equipment and I had > promised 3 to RV10 guys in this area. We ran off 20, and 8 are already > spoken for. $12 should cover the bracket and shipping. Any questions on > how I installed mine, just give me a call. > > Don McDonald > 11460 Elks Circle > Rancho Cordova, Ca 95742 > > 916-801-8402 > > #40636 > Almost ready to pour fuel to it! > > -------- > Don A. McDonald > 40636 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1090#201090 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2625c_159.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:08 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Avemco Insurance Quote From: "Robin Marks" I just got off the phone with Avemco to see about insuring my -10 for first flight and then basic flight coverage. I have 4 other plans insured with them and receive a multi-plane discount. Unfortunately their quote is not reality based as coverage begins only after 10 hours of fly off (no First Flight Coverage) and for $200K hull coverage the quote was close to $8,000. I informed them that the plane will be in a hangar, it is a Technically Advanced Aircraft (Panel), I have 800 TT, 500 of which are Retract, High Performance plus 125 Tail Wheel. Not bad for 6 years of flying (I thought). I now have filled out the EAA form as suggested by Wayne E and I hope to hear back from multiple insurance companies. I read the archives (Really!) and it seems like the insurance should be closer to $3,000. I am looking forward to the day I cancel 4 additional aircraft from Avemco and move them over to the new insurance carrier. Robin BPE Cold Induction / James Cowl Air box Complete! Ready to fly... ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Avemco Insurance Quote From: Dj Merrill Robin Marks wrote: > > I just got off the phone with Avemco to see about insuring my -10 for > first flight and then basic flight coverage. I have 4 other plans > Interesting! The last time I called Avemco (maybe 2 years ago), they told me that they did not cover any experimental aircraft. Apparently they changed their minds, but now charge such a high premium that effectively they've priced themselves out of the market anyways. -Dj do not archive -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ http://deej.net/sportsman/ "Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:26 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Avemco Insurance Quote From: "Robin Marks" Avemco does cover experimental as the last 5+ years I had my RV-4 and RV-6A covered with them (at a competitive rate). Robin Snip Interesting! The last time I called Avemco (maybe 2 years ago), they told me that they did not cover any experimental aircraft. Apparently they changed their minds, but now charge such a high premium that effectively they've priced themselves out of the market anyways. -Dj do not archive -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ http://deej.net/sportsman/ "Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Avemco Insurance Quote From: Dj Merrill Robin Marks wrote: > > Avemco does cover experimental as the last 5+ years I had my RV-4 and > RV-6A covered with them (at a competitive rate). > > Very strange! Maybe there was a new person that answered the phone when I called. They had an ad in Kitplanes if I remember correctly, which is why I called. I asked him if they did not cover experimentals, why did they have an ad in Kitplanes, which is specifically for experimentals, but all he could tell me was that it was a relatively recent decision not to cover experimentals anymore (within the previous year time frame I believe). I ended up going with AIG and have been very happy with them. -Dj do not archive -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ http://deej.net/sportsman/ "Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:03 PM PST US From: William Souza Subject: Re: RV10-List: Avemco Insurance Quote Give Jenny Estes A call at NATIONAIR AVIATION INSURANCE @ 877-475-5860 OR NATIONAIR.COM. I have my RV-10 insured for full coverage @ $225,000 hull and under $4800.00 yr. Bill Souza RV-10 SoCal RV Group --- Robin Marks wrote: > > > I just got off the phone with Avemco to see about > insuring my -10 for > first flight and then basic flight coverage. I have > 4 other plans > insured with them and receive a multi-plane > discount. Unfortunately > their quote is not reality based as coverage begins > only after 10 hours > of fly off (no First Flight Coverage) and for $200K > hull coverage the > quote was close to $8,000. I informed them that the > plane will be in a > hangar, it is a Technically Advanced Aircraft > (Panel), I have 800 TT, > 500 of which are Retract, High Performance plus 125 > Tail Wheel. Not bad > for 6 years of flying (I thought). > I now have filled out the EAA form as suggested by > Wayne E and I hope to > hear back from multiple insurance companies. > I read the archives (Really!) and it seems like the > insurance should be > closer to $3,000. > I am looking forward to the day I cancel 4 > additional aircraft from > Avemco and move them over to the new insurance > carrier. > > Robin > BPE Cold Induction / James Cowl Air box Complete! > Ready to fly... > > > > browse > Un/Subscription, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > Forums! > > Admin. > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:27 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RV10-List: brake linings Just a follow up. I got my sets today and they are the Cleveland 66-11200 This is the real deal as these same linings are priced at about $70 for a set for the mains versus Vans price of $33 rivets included. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:27 PM PST US From: "gary" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Avemco Insurance Quote I have a great independent agent who shops all the major carriers and the price is great. Contact me off line if you want his name. Gary Specketer -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:52 PM Subject: RV10-List: Avemco Insurance Quote I just got off the phone with Avemco to see about insuring my -10 for first flight and then basic flight coverage. I have 4 other plans insured with them and receive a multi-plane discount. Unfortunately their quote is not reality based as coverage begins only after 10 hours of fly off (no First Flight Coverage) and for $200K hull coverage the quote was close to $8,000. I informed them that the plane will be in a hangar, it is a Technically Advanced Aircraft (Panel), I have 800 TT, 500 of which are Retract, High Performance plus 125 Tail Wheel. Not bad for 6 years of flying (I thought). I now have filled out the EAA form as suggested by Wayne E and I hope to hear back from multiple insurance companies. I read the archives (Really!) and it seems like the insurance should be closer to $3,000. I am looking forward to the day I cancel 4 additional aircraft from Avemco and move them over to the new insurance carrier. Robin BPE Cold Induction / James Cowl Air box Complete! Ready to fly... ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:04 PM PST US From: "pascal" Subject: RV10-List: baggage door lock length Anyone know how long the arm is for the baggage door lock. Have a 5/8th lock need to create the arm. Thanks Pascal ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:10 PM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: Avemco Insurance Quote You can't beat Jenny, I'm at $3600 but that's for $125K hull, bulders risk, transport, liability all that good stuff. Prior to the first flight it will go up to $250k on the hull and around the same, $4800 I'm guessing. Rick S. 40185 do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Souza" Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:22:45 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: Re: RV10-List: Avemco Insurance Quote Give Jenny Estes A call at NATIONAIR AVIATION INSURANCE @ 877-475-5860 OR NATIONAIR.COM. I have my RV-10 insured for full coverage @ $225,000 hull and under $4800.00 yr. Bill Souza RV-10 SoCal RV Group --- Robin Marks wrote: > > > I just got off the phone with Avemco to see about > insuring my -10 for > first flight and then basic flight coverage. I have > 4 other plans > insured with them and receive a multi-plane > discount. Unfortunately > their quote is not reality based as coverage begins > only after 10 hours > of fly off (no First Flight Coverage) and for $200K > hull coverage the > quote was close to $8,000. I informed them that the > plane will be in a > hangar, it is a Technically Advanced Aircraft > (Panel), I have 800 TT, > 500 of which are Retract, High Performance plus 125 > Tail Wheel. Not bad > for 6 years of flying (I thought). > I now have filled out the EAA form as suggested by > Wayne E and I hope to > hear back from multiple insurance companies. > I read the archives (Really!) and it seems like the > insurance should be > closer to $3,000. > I am looking forward to the day I cancel 4 > additional aircraft from > Avemco and move them over to the new insurance > carrier. > > Robin > BPE Cold Induction / James Cowl Air box Complete! > Ready to fly... > > > > browse > Un/Subscription, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > Forums! > > Admin. > > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:46 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: filling canopy pinholes-better time than another? From: "tomhanaway" Canopy is on (not yet riveted) and I'm satisfied with fit. Does it make more sense to go forward with doors and windows now or should I fill pinholes (with canopy either on or off fuselage) and do initial prime of canopy before moving forward? Just trying to figure out best order of steps to follow. Thanks, Tom H. Boynton Beach, FL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1508#201508 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:25 PM PST US From: Wndwlkr1228@AOL.COM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Avemco Insurance Quote A few years ago, I was with AVEMCO. Then they decided to cancel all coverage of experimental aircraft. I was building a RV-6A at the time so I cancelled all of my policies in protest. Even though my coverage was about to expire anyway, they billed me for not renewing my policy. I am with Jenny at Nationwide and have been since then. George S. RV-6A panel In a message dated 8/29/2008 3:19:57 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, ricksked@embarqmail.com writes: --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick Sked You can't beat Jenny, I'm at $3600 but that's for $125K hull, bulders risk, transport, liability all that good stuff. Prior to the first flight it will go up to $250k on the hull and around the same, $4800 I'm guessing. Rick S. 40185 do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Souza" Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:22:45 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: Re: RV10-List: Avemco Insurance Quote --> RV10-List message posted by: William Souza Give Jenny Estes A call at NATIONAIR AVIATION INSURANCE @ 877-475-5860 OR NATIONAIR.COM. I have my RV-10 insured for full coverage @ $225,000 hull and under $4800.00 yr. Bill Souza RV-10 SoCal RV Group --- Robin Marks wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" > > > I just got off the phone with Avemco to see about > insuring my -10 for > first flight and then basic flight coverage. I have > 4 other plans > insured with them and receive a multi-plane > discount. Unfortunately > their quote is not reality based as coverage begins > only after 10 hours > of fly off (no First Flight Coverage) and for $200K > hull coverage the > quote was close to $8,000. I informed them that the > plane will be in a > hangar, it is a Technically Advanced Aircraft > (Panel), I have 800 TT, > 500 of which are Retract, High Performance plus 125 > Tail Wheel. Not bad > for 6 years of flying (I thought). > I now have filled out the EAA form as suggested by > Wayne E and I hope to > hear back from multiple insurance companies. > I read the archives (Really!) and it seems like the > insurance should be > closer to $3,000. > I am looking forward to the day I cancel 4 > additional aircraft from > Avemco and move them over to the new insurance > carrier. > > Robin > BPE Cold Induction / James Cowl Air box Complete! > Ready to fly... > > > > browse > Un/Subscription, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > Forums! > > Admin. > > > > > **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:38 PM PST US From: "Doug Preston" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Avemco Insurance Quote I found insurance to be very unrealistic. I have my 10 covered through Nation Air. The underwriter is AIG with 180K hull and with the TAA discount I paid almost $2900. I am a corporate pilot on a Citation, go to Simuflite every year, have over 24,000 hrs in over 50 types and I feel ripped. I did get first flight coverage. I had done the checkout with m\Mike Seagers. We get the shaft regardless. Good luck. Doug Preston RV10 N372RV KBHM On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Robin Marks wrote: > > I just got off the phone with Avemco to see about insuring my -10 for > first flight and then basic flight coverage. I have 4 other plans > insured with them and receive a multi-plane discount. Unfortunately > their quote is not reality based as coverage begins only after 10 hours > of fly off (no First Flight Coverage) and for $200K hull coverage the > quote was close to $8,000. I informed them that the plane will be in a > hangar, it is a Technically Advanced Aircraft (Panel), I have 800 TT, > 500 of which are Retract, High Performance plus 125 Tail Wheel. Not bad > for 6 years of flying (I thought). > I now have filled out the EAA form as suggested by Wayne E and I hope to > hear back from multiple insurance companies. > I read the archives (Really!) and it seems like the insurance should be > closer to $3,000. > I am looking forward to the day I cancel 4 additional aircraft from > Avemco and move them over to the new insurance carrier. > > Robin > BPE Cold Induction / James Cowl Air box Complete! > Ready to fly... > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:00 PM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: filling canopy pinholes-better time than another? Tom, I completely body worked the interior and primed it prior to installing. I'm using a faux suede paint (stuff used on yachts in the bridge interiors) that was use on my panel and console to paint the interior once I get the filling completed around the point where it mates to the fuselage. I have done nothing to the exterior and won't until close to paint time. Do as much to the interior as you can stand before sticking it on for good. Mike Sausen is installing his headliner while it's off, leaving the part of the headliner rolled up that go to the rivet line. If I was doing a headliner I would do the exact same thing. If you have an upholster in mind now is a good time to contact them for a first look at the headliner unless you going to do it yourself. I really did a lot of body work to the interior of my cabin top...smoothed all the window areas, the posts, blended the area behind the doors that look like big ol square chunks of garbage. I also have the overhead console and the green top...you pink top owners may have less to do. I can say that at several times in the process I said I had enough, but I came back and did more and glad I did, Mine would take a headliner very nicely now due to the faring and rounding of the protrusions but I'm sticking with my suede paint...at $100 a quart, which I already purchased, I'm sticking to that plan!! Rick Sked 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "tomhanaway" Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 3:44:57 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RV10-List: filling canopy pinholes-better time than another? Canopy is on (not yet riveted) and I'm satisfied with fit. Does it make more sense to go forward with doors and windows now or should I fill pinholes (with canopy either on or off fuselage) and do initial prime of canopy before moving forward? Just trying to figure out best order of steps to follow. Thanks, Tom H. Boynton Beach, FL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1508#201508 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:31 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Shoulder harness bracket From: "partner14" Ok, the install is finished and it works and looks great. Based on the response I guess I need to run some more. Attached is a pic. Rick Sked asked about using them as a headset holder.... I have a different bracket design already done and mounted in the plane. Will take a pic and send it out tomorrow. Don McDonald #40636 -------- Don A. McDonald 40636 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1524#201524 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2629c_119.jpg ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:00 PM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: Shoulder harness bracket Like I said Don, nice piece, now onto the headset holder...My checks in the mail for both. It saved me from the mechanics for both parts, actually I had it drawn out, and ready to fab...yours is perfect and an almost perfect finished surface from the tumbler :) I don't know why I love to polish metal!! Rick Sked 40185 d0 not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "partner14" Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 5:24:26 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RV10-List: Shoulder harness bracket Ok, the install is finished and it works and looks great. Based on the response I guess I need to run some more. Attached is a pic. Rick Sked asked about using them as a headset holder.... I have a different bracket design already done and mounted in the plane. Will take a pic and send it out tomorrow. Don McDonald #40636 -------- Don A. McDonald 40636 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1524#201524 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2629c_119.jpg ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:52 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Got PPL From: "tomhanaway" I started building my rv-10 about 18 months ago because I really liked the idea of the project. Over the years (I'm currently 61 and working full time), I took some flying lessons but never as far as license. It always bothered me that I'd left this unfinished. So... passed my practical a few weeks ago and have the PPL ticket to learn. Now putting in some x-country hours while taking my initial intrument lessons. After building some time and experience, I'll do my transition training (probably another 18 months or so). What a neat feeling of accomplishment. Tom Hanaway Boynton Beach, FL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1526#201526 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:09 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Got PPL From: "Robin Marks" Way to go Tom! That's a feel great story. Keep at it. Robin Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Boost Pump - On or Off for Takeoff? From: gengrumpy@aol.com Kelly is spot on. It is insurance during a very critical phase of flight. For low wings, not a bad idea to have them on in the landing pattern as well. grumpy N184JM do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Kelly McMullen Sent: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 9:10 am Subject: Re: RV10-List: Boost Pump - On or Off for Takeoff? Look to aircraft with the same engine and fuel injection and low wings for your answer. Bonanzas have TCM engines with either a Bendix pressure carb or TCM fuel injection, with entirely different requirements than the plane your engine came out of, a Comanche 260. With the RV10, I'd say have it on. The RSA system(or equivalent) isn't sensitive to small variations in fuel pressure, and if the mechanical pump were to fail at 50 ft, you would have a much less eventful flight if you discovered it at 1000 ft when you turned the boost pump off than if the fire went out at 50 ft. On 8/29/08, jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com wrote: > > A few days ago the conversation around our hangar was about the use of the > electric fuel pump. I reviewed the POHs that were available on Tim's site > and still didn't find a clear answer. So to my question, is the electric > fuel pump supposed to be on or off during takeoff? The answer to this > question even appears to vary in the certified world, some Pipers have it on > for takeoff, some Beechcraft have it off. > > The follow up question of course would be, why, or why not? > > Thanks, Jason Kreidler > 4-Partner Build (Jason Kreidler, Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elsner) > Sheboygan Falls, WI > #40617 Finishing > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:26 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: filling canopy pinholes-better time than another? From: "AndrewTR30" Hey Rick, what's the name of the paint you're using? -------- Andrew Rayhill RV-10 40078 Phoenix Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1530#201530 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:42 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: filling canopy pinholes-better time than another? From: "AndrewTR30" Hey Rick, what's the name of the paint you're using? -------- Andrew Rayhill RV-10 40078 Phoenix Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1531#201531 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:12 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell Composite Three blade From: "John Cox" Rob, thanks for your continual reporting. John Cox From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RobHickman@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:22 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Hartzell Composite Three blade In a message dated 8/29/2008 7:11:12 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, flysrv10@gmail.com writes: Dial your RPM down, You'll do much better. I am flying to eastern Washington later today to drop off my neighbors at Moses Lake so I will give different RPM settings a try. Rob Hickman N402RH RV-10 ________________________________ It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here .. ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:47 PM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vegas crash If he came off 12L and=C2- established a=C2-positive rate of climb,=C2 - it may have been a different story, There is a much great chance of sur vival if you use 12R it's 800 feet longer, 5000'=C2- vs. 4200 foot on 12 L and the overrun is well within the confines of the airport. Let me toss o ut a thought, to get over to 12 L you may be held=C2-on the tarmac a LONG time waiting to cross over and deal with inbound traffic getting to 12 L.. ., if he came out of the hangars in the south or as we call it and my hanga r is located in this area=C2-the "Outback"=C2- which can be close to a mile of taxi to the hold short line of 12 R, let alone 12L, given=C2-the =C2-Velocity's pusher configuration and no positive airflow from the prop eller into the air intakes for cooling,=C2-=C2-what are the chances of =C2-overheating with potential vapor lock during prolonged ground operati on? =C2-With limited power it appears there was enough energy to carry hi m to the neighborhoods south east but unable to gain or maintain=C2-any a ltitude.=C2-I can't help but wonder if the abnormal engine operation was =C2-noted on=C2-initial take off roll=C2-but the flight pressed on in hopes of it clearing itself=C2- vs. aborting the takeoff...I'm sorry, I' m just speculating from my computer chair. I'm sure the velocity has the pe rformance that making a decision to abort is more NOW then later...We may n ever know what Murph was thinking. If it were an RV-10 we=C2-could have b een at 1000+ AGL, pattern altitude is 3000 AGL, field elevation is 2200=C2 - by the 4000 foot marker below, hopefully enough altitude to setup for t he emergency. I think a properly performing Velocity would be comparable to an RV-10? I don't know it's numbers. Rick Sked 40185=C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: GenGrumpy@aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 5:27:50 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RV10-List: Vegas crash Thought I'd pass this along to keep all in the know here. grumpy do not archive Editor's Note: Below is the unedited text of the National Transportation Sa fety Board's preliminary report on last week's fatal crash of a Velocity 17 3RG in North Las Vegas, NV. Of note is the fact the accident flight was to be the first with the engine 's supercharger engaged. According to the owner/builder of the aircraft, se veral high-speed taxi tests had been conducted with the supercharger engage d in the days prior to the accident. As ANN reported , the plane crashed into a home last Friday, just after tak eoff from the North Las Vegas Airport (VGT). The accident claimed the lives of pilot Mack Creekmore Murphree Jr., 76, and two people living inside the home, identified as Jack and Lucy Costa. NTSB Identification: LAX08LA274 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Friday, August 22, 2008 in North Las Vegas, NV Aircraft: Killgore M/Killgore K Velocity 173RG, registration: N415MK Injuries: 3 Fatal. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On August 22, 2008, at 0628 Pacific daylight time, an experimental Killgore M/Killgore K Velocity 173RG, N415MK, collided with a residential building in North Las Vegas, Nevada. The airplane is registered to the owner/builder and it was being operated by the pilot under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91. The certificated airline transport pilot and t wo people on the ground were killed. Post impact fire destroyed the airplan e and partially burned the residence. The local flight departed North Las V egas Airport at 0627. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no fl ight plan had been filed. Preliminary information obtained from the Federal Aviation Administration ( FAA) revealed that the airplane departed North Las Vegas from runway 12 lef t. Shortly after takeoff the air traffic controller observed that the airpl ane was not gaining altitude. The controller asked the pilot if he needed a ssistance, to which the pilot responded, "I'm going down, I'm going down." The airplane then collided with a house 1.1 miles southeast of the airport. The owner/builder was interviewed by the National Transportation Safety Boa rd investigator-in-charge after the accident. He reported that the engine w as equipped with a supercharger, and that the purpose of the flight was to test the performance of the airplane and engine with the supercharger engag ed. He further reported that the supercharger was tested on multiple occasi ons during high speed taxi tests and ground runs the week prior to the acci dent, but that this was to be the first time it would be engaged for flight . The pilot held an airline transport pilot certificate with ratings for airp lane single engine land, multiengine land, and instrument airplane. He addi tionally held a flight engineer certificate, mechanic certificate, and a fl ight instructor certificate for airplane single engine, multiengine, and in strument airplane. On his latest FAA third-class medical application, dated September 7, 2006, the pilot stated that he had amassed 6,250 hours of tot al flight time. The canard configuration, four-seat, low-wing, retractable gear airplane, w as issued a Special Airworthiness Certificate on March 9, 2008. It was powe red by a Lycoming IO-360-C1C, engine and equipped with a three bladed MT-Pr opeller, model MTV-18-B. The Experimental Amateur-Built Airplane Operating Limitations for the accid ent airplane specified the following compliance under the section: Phase 1 Limitations-Initial Flight Testing, 'After a minimum time of (5) hours, and after controllability, airworthines s, and safety checks required by FAR 90.319(b) and chapter 4 of Advisory Ci rcular 90.89A are established and recorded in the airplane logbook the airp lane then may complete the remaining hours required in Phase 1 while based at North Las Vegas Airport (VGT); OR, a one time flight to the "Airplane Ba se of Operations" may also be conducted remaining clear of all densely popu lated areas and congested airways. NOTE: Airplane Base of Operations: Show Low Regional Airport (KSOW). This airplane must be operated for at least 25 (Twenty Five) hours in the assigned geographic areas' Review of the airplane maintenance logbook records revealed that on March 1 7, 2008, the airplane had amassed a total flight time of 5.1 hours. A logbo ok entry for that date noted, 'This airplane meets all the controllability, airworthiness, and safety checks required by FAR 91.319(b) and chapter 4 o f advisory circular 90-89A. It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here . ==== ======================= === ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:35 PM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: filling canopy pinholes-better time than another? Andrew, It's made by Mankiewicz and imported through the NEXTEL brand Heres the link : http://www.gatewaycoatingsandsupply.com/nextelsuedecoating.html Rick Sked 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "AndrewTR30" Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 6:02:14 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RV10-List: Re: filling canopy pinholes-better time than another? Hey Rick, what's the name of the paint you're using? -------- Andrew Rayhill RV-10 40078 Phoenix Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1530#201530 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:31 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: baggage door lock length From: "Lenny Iszak" It's 1 5/8 from the bolt center to the tip of the arm. Lenny #40803 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1541#201541 ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:20 PM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: Got PPL Tom, FANTASTIC...Neat feeling is an understatement...you have joined a very small percentage of the population who can call themselves an "Aviator". I will never forget that day...My examiner telling me he had enough, turn this thing back to Kingman and land, I'm signing your slip...WOW!! I DID IT!! I was 40 then and I turn 47 next week...you did it at 61!! Good on you!! FWIW, after he gave me my temporary certificate, I then had to do another cross country to bring the 172 back to Henderson NV (KHND) from Kingman (KIGM) where I had flown in that morning to satisfy my last hour or so of X-country time and full stop landings just and take the exam, the oral first which felt like HOURS then the practical, the difference on the return flight was now I was a Private Pilot!! My first logbook entry after getting the PPL. That was a long and unforgettable day..I still don't know how I drove from Henderson airport to my house after landing and tying down the aircraft! Rick Sked 40185 do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "tomhanaway" Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 5:47:38 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RV10-List: Got PPL I started building my rv-10 about 18 months ago because I really liked the idea of the project. Over the years (I'm currently 61 and working full time), I took some flying lessons but never as far as license. It always bothered me that I'd left this unfinished. So... passed my practical a few weeks ago and have the PPL ticket to learn. Now putting in some x-country hours while taking my initial intrument lessons. After building some time and experience, I'll do my transition training (probably another 18 months or so). What a neat feeling of accomplishment. Tom Hanaway Boynton Beach, FL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1526#201526 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:50 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vegas crash I think they may want to investigate what the supercharger could have contributed to the loss of power. We had a similar crash (N110UX) here both using a supercharger from a Vegas company. It was also a first flight with the supercharger. The loss of power was apparent to observers during the takeoff run; but he continued. Another perplexing item was the full fuel load unless this was intended to be the return to Show low AZ trip. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vegas crash If he came off 12L and established a positive rate of climb, it may have been a different story, There is a much great chance of survival if you use 12R it's 800 feet longer, 5000' vs. 4200 foot on 12 L and the overrun is well within the confines of the airport. Let me toss out a thought, to get over to 12 L you may be held on the tarmac a LONG time waiting to cross over and deal with inbound traffic getting to 12 L..., if he came out of the hangars in the south or as we call it and my hangar is located in this area the "Outback" which can be close to a mile of taxi to the hold short line of 12 R, let alone 12L, given the Velocity's pusher configuration and no positive airflow from the propeller into the air intakes for cooling, what are the chances of overheating with potential vapor lock during prolonged ground operation? With limited power it appears there was enough energy to carry him to the neighborhoods south east but unable to gain or maintain any altitude. I can't help but wonder if the abnormal engine operation was noted on initial take off roll but the flight pressed on in hopes of it clearing itself vs. aborting the takeoff...I'm sorry, I'm just speculating from my computer chair. I'm sure the velocity has the performance that making a decision to abort is more NOW then later...We may never know what Murph was thinking. If it were an RV-10 we could have been at 1000+ AGL, pattern altitude is 3000 AGL, field elevation is 2200 by the 4000 foot marker below, hopefully enough altitude to setup for the emergency. I think a properly performing Velocity would be comparable to an RV-10? I don't know it's numbers. Rick Sked 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: GenGrumpy@aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 5:27:50 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RV10-List: Vegas crash Thought I'd pass this along to keep all in the know here. grumpy do not archive Editor's Note: Below is the unedited text of the National Transportation Safety Board's preliminary report on last week's fatal crash of a Velocity 173RG in North Las Vegas, NV. Of note is the fact the accident flight was to be the first with the engine's supercharger engaged. According to the owner/builder of the aircraft, several high-speed taxi tests had been conducted with the supercharger engaged in the days prior to the accident. As ANN reported , the plane crashed into a home last Friday, just after takeoff from the North Las Vegas Airport (VGT). The accident claimed the lives of pilot Mack Creekmore Murphree Jr., 76, and two people living inside the home, identified as Jack and Lucy Costa. NTSB Identification: LAX08LA274 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Friday, August 22, 2008 in North Las Vegas, NV Aircraft: Killgore M/Killgore K Velocity 173RG, registration: N415MK Injuries: 3 Fatal. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On August 22, 2008, at 0628 Pacific daylight time, an experimental Killgore M/Killgore K Velocity 173RG, N415MK, collided with a residential building in North Las Vegas, Nevada. The airplane is registered to the owner/builder and it was being operated by the pilot under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91. The certificated airline transport pilot and two people on the ground were killed. Post impact fire destroyed the airplane and partially burned the residence. The local flight departed North Las Vegas Airport at 0627. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed. Preliminary information obtained from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) revealed that the airplane departed North Las Vegas from runway 12 left. Shortly after takeoff the air traffic controller observed that the airplane was not gaining altitude. The controller asked the pilot if he needed assistance, to which the pilot responded, "I'm going down, I'm going down." The airplane then collided with a house 1.1 miles southeast of the airport. The owner/builder was interviewed by the National Transportation Safety Board investigator-in-charge after the accident. He reported that the engine was equipped with a supercharger, and that the purpose of the flight was to test the performance of the airplane and engine with the supercharger engaged. He further reported that the supercharger was tested on multiple occasions during high speed taxi tests and ground runs the week prior to the accident, but that this was to be the first time it would be engaged for flight. The pilot held an airline transport pilot certificate with ratings for airplane single engine land, multiengine land, and instrument airplane. He additionally held a flight engineer certificate, mechanic certificate, and a flight instructor certificate for airplane single engine, multiengine, and instrument airplane. On his latest FAA third-class medical application, dated September 7, 2006, the pilot stated that he had amassed 6,250 hours of total flight time. The canard configuration, four-seat, low-wing, retractable gear airplane, was issued a Special Airworthiness Certificate on March 9, 2008. It was powered by a Lycoming IO-360-C1C, engine and equipped with a three bladed MT-Propeller, model MTV-18-B. The Experimental Amateur-Built Airplane Operating Limitations for the accident airplane specified the following compliance under the section: Phase 1 Limitations-Initial Flight Testing, 'After a minimum time of (5) hours, and after controllability, airworthiness, and safety checks required by FAR 90.319(b) and chapter 4 of Advisory Circular 90.89A are established and recorded in the airplane logbook the airplane then may complete the remaining hours required in Phase 1 while based at North Las Vegas Airport (VGT); OR, a one time flight to the "Airplane Base of Operations" may also be conducted remaining clear of all densely populated areas and congested airways. NOTE: Airplane Base of Operations: Show Low Regional Airport (KSOW). This airplane must be operated for at least 25 (Twenty Five) hours in the assigned geographic areas' Review of the airplane maintenance logbook records revealed that on March 17, 2008, the airplane had amassed a total flight time of 5.1 hours. A logbook entry for that date noted, 'This airplane meets all the controllability, airworthiness, and safety checks required by FAR 91.319(b) and chapter 4 of advisory circular 90-89A. _____ It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:27 PM PST US From: cloudvalley@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV10-List: Avemco Insurance Quote Hello, My wife owned a Grumman Tiger for 25 years and was given a good quote for an RV10 when we were about to build one. They have very good rates, shopping around for the best ones. My wife Ruth has about 3000 hrs in Grummans ( and 110 hrs in a Cirrus SR20) but stiill got a good approximate quote when we checked. Try calling Aircraft Marine and Assurnace Inc in Vancouver Washington. Ask for Vivian Hibbler. With your hours one would think you would get a much better rate than that. Phone number is: 800-466-4944 E-mail is mail@aircraftandmarine.com Brian Preston -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Doug Preston" I found insurance to be very unrealistic. I have my 10 covered through Nation Air. The underwriter is AIG with 180K hull and with the TAA discount I paid almost $2900. I am a corporate pilot on a Citation, go to Simuflite every year, have over 24,000 hrs in over 50 types and I feel ripped. I did get first flight coverage. I had done the checkout with m\Mike Seagers. We get the shaft regardless. Good luck. Doug Preston RV10 N372RV KBHM On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Robin Marks wrote: I just got off the phone with Avemco to see about insuring my -10 for first flight and then basic flight coverage. I have 4 other plans insured with them and receive a multi-plane discount. Unfortunately their quote is not reality based as coverage begins only after 10 hours of fly off (no First Flight Coverage) and for $200K hull coverage the quote was close to $8,000. I informed them that the plane will be in a hangar, it is a Technically Advanced Aircraft (Panel), I have 800 TT, 500 of which are Retract, High Performance plus 125 Tail Wheel. Not bad for 6 years of flying (I thought). I now have filled out the EAA form as suggested by Wayne E and I hope to hear back from multiple insurance companies. I read the archives (Really!) and it seems like the insurance should be closer to $3,000. I am looking forward to the day I cancel 4 additional aircraft from Avemco and move them over to the new insurance carrier. Robin BPE Cold Induction / James Cowl Air box Complete! Ready to fly...
Hello,
My wife owned a Grumman Tiger for  25 years and was given a good quote for an RV10 when we were about to build one. They have very good rates, shopping around for the best ones. My wife Ruth has about 3000 hrs in Grummans ( and 110 hrs in a Cirrus SR20) but stiill got a good approximate quote when we checked.
 
Try calling Aircraft Marine and Assurnace Inc in  Vancouver Washington. Ask for Vivian Hibbler. With your hours one would think you would get a much better rate than that.
 
 Phone number  is: 800-466-4944
 
Brian Preston
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Doug Preston" <dougpflyrv@gmail.com>
I found insurance to be very unrealistic. I have my 10 covered through Nation Air. The underwriter is AIG with 180K hull and with the TAA discount I paid almost $2900. I am a corporate pilot on a Citation, go to Simuflite every year, have over 24,000 hrs in over 50 types and I feel ripped.  I did get first flight coverage. I had done the checkout with m\Mike Seagers.  We get the shaft regardless.  Good luck.
Doug Preston
RV10  N372RV
KBHM

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" <robin1@mrmoisture.com>

I just got off the phone with Avemco to see about insuring my -10 for
first flight and then basic flight coverage. I have 4 other plans
insured with them and receive a multi-plane discount. Unfortunately
their quote is not reality based as coverage begins only after 10 hours
of fly off (no First Flight Coverage) and for $200K hull coverage the
quote was close to $8,000. I informed them that the plane will be in a
hangar, it is a Technically Advanced Aircraft (Panel), I have 800 TT,
500 of which are Retract, High Performance plus 125 Tail Wheel. Not bad
for 6 years of flying (I thought).
I now have filled out the EAA form as suggested by Wayne E and I hope to
hear back from multiple insurance compa nies.< BR>I read the archives (Really!) and it seems like the insurance should be
closer to $3,000.
I am looking forward to the day I cancel 4 additional aircraft from
Avemco and move them over to the new insurance carrier.

Robin
BPE Cold Induction / James Cowl Air box Complete!
Ready to fly...
________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:57 PM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vegas crash Good points David,=C2- I think I'm familiar with the company you are referencing, matter of fact t hey are right behind me in the hangar row...I know they are Lancair builder s by trade,=C2-and they also put out an =C2-A/C system where the compre ssor runs off the Continental accessory drive, impressive stuff but nonethe less, I don't really know them...their Lancair superchargers are some of th e best out there from what I have been told, but ummm... they tend to come down with frequency too. They do have a some affiliation with the Reno crow d...All speculation on my part...they are a high tech heady bunch if they a re=C2-ones you're talking about. If not forgive, my finger pointing. You don't get a cold one at their joint, unless it's club soda so...as you migh t guess I don't visit often. :) But I do like club soda!!! Rick Sked 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David McNeill" Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 7:22:23 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vegas crash I think they may want to investigate what the supercharger could have contr ibuted to the loss of power. We had a similar crash (N110UX) here both usin g a supercharger from a Vegas company. It was also a first flight with the supercharger. The loss of power was apparent to observers during the takeof f run; but he continued. Another perplexing item was the full fuel load unl ess this was intended to be the return to Show low AZ trip. From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vegas crash If he came off 12L and=C2- established a=C2-positive rate of climb,=C2 - it may have been a different story, There is a much great chance of sur vival if you use 12R it's 800 feet longer, 5000'=C2- vs. 4200 foot on 12 L and the overrun is well within the confines of the airport. Let me toss o ut a thought, to get over to 12 L you may be held=C2-on the tarmac a LONG time waiting to cross over and deal with inbound traffic getting to 12 L.. ., if he came out of the hangars in the south or as we call it and my hanga r is located in this area=C2-the "Outback"=C2- which can be close to a mile of taxi to the hold short line of 12 R, let alone 12L, given=C2-the =C2-Velocity's pusher configuration and no positive airflow from the prop eller into the air intakes for cooling,=C2-=C2-what are the chances of =C2-overheating with potential vapor lock during prolonged ground operati on? =C2-With limited power it appears there was enough energy to carry hi m to the neighborhoods south east but unable to gain or maintain=C2-any a ltitude.=C2-I can't help but wonder if the abnormal engine operation was =C2-noted on=C2-initial take off roll=C2-but the flight pressed on in hopes of it clearing itself=C2- vs. aborting the takeoff...I'm sorry, I' m just speculating from my computer chair. I'm sure the velocity has the pe rformance that making a decision to abort is more NOW then later...We may n ever know what Murph was thinking. If it were an RV-10 we=C2-could have b een at 1000+ AGL, pattern altitude is 3000 AGL, field elevation is 2200=C2 - by the 4000 foot marker below, hopefully enough altitude to setup for t he emergency. I think a properly performing Velocity would be comparable to an RV-10? I don't know it's numbers. Rick Sked 40185=C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: GenGrumpy@aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 5:27:50 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RV10-List: Vegas crash Thought I'd pass this along to keep all in the know here. grumpy do not archive Editor's Note: Below is the unedited text of the National Transportation Sa fety Board's preliminary report on last week's fatal crash of a Velocity 17 3RG in North Las Vegas, NV. Of note is the fact the accident flight was to be the first with the engine 's supercharger engaged. According to the owner/builder of the aircraft, se veral high-speed taxi tests had been conducted with the supercharger engage d in the days prior to the accident. As ANN reported , the plane crashed into a home last Friday, just after tak eoff from the North Las Vegas Airport (VGT). The accident claimed the lives of pilot Mack Creekmore Murphree Jr., 76, and two people living inside the home, identified as Jack and Lucy Costa. NTSB Identification: LAX08LA274 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Friday, August 22, 2008 in North Las Vegas, NV Aircraft: Killgore M/Killgore K Velocity 173RG, registration: N415MK Injuries: 3 Fatal. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On August 22, 2008, at 0628 Pacific daylight time, an experimental Killgore M/Killgore K Velocity 173RG, N415MK, collided with a residential building in North Las Vegas, Nevada. The airplane is registered to the owner/builder and it was being operated by the pilot under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91. The certificated airline transport pilot and t wo people on the ground were killed. Post impact fire destroyed the airplan e and partially burned the residence. The local flight departed North Las V egas Airport at 0627. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no fl ight plan had been filed. Preliminary information obtained from the Federal Aviation Administration ( FAA) revealed that the airplane departed North Las Vegas from runway 12 lef t. Shortly after takeoff the air traffic controller observed that the airpl ane was not gaining altitude. The controller asked the pilot if he needed a ssistance, to which the pilot responded, "I'm going down, I'm going down." The airplane then collided with a house 1.1 miles southeast of the airport. The owner/builder was interviewed by the National Transportation Safety Boa rd investigator-in-charge after the accident. He reported that the engine w as equipped with a supercharger, and that the purpose of the flight was to test the performance of the airplane and engine with the supercharger engag ed. He further reported that the supercharger was tested on multiple occasi ons during high speed taxi tests and ground runs the week prior to the acci dent, but that this was to be the first time it would be engaged for flight . The pilot held an airline transport pilot certificate with ratings for airp lane single engine land, multiengine land, and instrument airplane. He addi tionally held a flight engineer certificate, mechanic certificate, and a fl ight instructor certificate for airplane single engine, multiengine, and in strument airplane. On his latest FAA third-class medical application, dated September 7, 2006, the pilot stated that he had amassed 6,250 hours of tot al flight time. The canard configuration, four-seat, low-wing, retractable gear airplane, w as issued a Special Airworthiness Certificate on March 9, 2008. It was powe red by a Lycoming IO-360-C1C, engine and equipped with a three bladed MT-Pr opeller, model MTV-18-B. The Experimental Amateur-Built Airplane Operating Limitations for the accid ent airplane specified the following compliance under the section: Phase 1 Limitations-Initial Flight Testing, 'After a minimum time of (5) hours, and after controllability, airworthines s, and safety checks required by FAR 90.319(b) and chapter 4 of Advisory Ci rcular 90.89A are established and recorded in the airplane logbook the airp lane then may complete the remaining hours required in Phase 1 while based at North Las Vegas Airport (VGT); OR, a one time flight to the "Airplane Ba se of Operations" may also be conducted remaining clear of all densely popu lated areas and congested airways. NOTE: Airplane Base of Operations: Show Low Regional Airport (KSOW). This airplane must be operated for at least 25 (Twenty Five) hours in the assigned geographic areas' Review of the airplane maintenance logbook records revealed that on March 1 7, 2008, the airplane had amassed a total flight time of 5.1 hours. A logbo ok entry for that date noted, 'This airplane meets all the controllability, airworthiness, and safety checks required by FAR 91.319(b) and chapter 4 o f advisory circular 90-89A. It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here . get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List p://forums.matro nics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums. matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.mat ====================== ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:07 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vegas crash From: "John Cox" T2theSBSaWNrLCBhZnRlciBsb3NpbmcgU2hhbm5vbiBLbm9lZmxlaW4gYW5kIGhpcyBwbGFzdGlj IGFpcmNyYWZ0IE45OFNOIGRlcGFydGluZyBPU0ggJzA0LCB5b3Ugbm93IGhhdmUgbXkgY3VyaW9z aXR5Lg0KDQogDQoNClNoYW5ub24gd2FzIHJ1bm5pbmcgYSBWb3J0ZWMgU3VwZXJjaGFyZ2VyIGZy b20gUmljayBTY2hyYW1lY2sncyBjb21wYW55IGluIExhcyBWZWdhcyBvbiBoaXMgd2lubmluZyBM YW5jYWlyIExlZ2FjeS4gIFRoZSBzYW1lIFJpY2sgU2NocmFtZWNrIHRoYXQgY29uY2VpdmVkLCBm 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bnQgYWxzbyBhdmFpbGFibGUgdmlhIHRoZSBXZWIgRm9ydW1zIQ0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly9m b3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAtIExpc3QgQ29udHJp YnV0aW9uIFdlYiBTaXRlIC0NCl8tPSAgVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB5b3VyIGdlbmVyb3VzIHN1cHBv cnQhDQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAtTWF0dCBEcmFsbGUsIExpc3Qg QWRtaW4uDQpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbg0K Xy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT0NCiANCg= ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:17 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vegas crash 415MK Sorry to confuse. N110UX was a Glasair at FFZ. It did have a new supercharger (Vortec I believe) and the fatal flight was the first with it installed. for more details check the NTSB synopsis. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:33 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vegas crash Okay Rick, after losing Shannon Knoeflein and his plastic aircraft N98SN departing OSH '04, you now have my curiosity. Shannon was running a Vortec Supercharger from Rick Schrameck's company in Las Vegas on his winning Lancair Legacy. The same Rick Schrameck that conceived, financed and produces the controversial and sexy EPIC (now of Bend, OR). The same pursuit that triggered the FAA investigation and rewrite of the 51% policy we all feel so acutely. Do name who your neighbor is! Do tell us if the Velocity (N110UX) was running a Schrameck Vortec Supercharger. I have lots of pictures for the curious on the gorgeous kit he assembles for sale to those of Stout Heart. Kit builders should tread lightly with Superchargers, Turbochargers and other exotic mods on our beloved RV-10s - YMMV. Lancair does not have a Supercharger offering, however there are independent professional builders who offer aftermarket knockoffs (Don Barnes comes to mind). Most exotic variants are the Continental TSIO-550 with intercoolers. Darrel Greenemeier (Reno) comes to mind with Andy Chiavetti's mods. Now Lycoming (Lycosaurus) has responded with the twin Intercooler, FADEC Lycoming IO-540 variant in both Certified and Thunderbolt iterations for the 21st Century Evolution OBAM. The gene pool is too shallow to fund too many losses each year. Let's make '2009 less than three , "Shall we?" John Cox do not archive From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 7:56 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vegas crash Good points David, I think I'm familiar with the company you are referencing, matter of fact they are right behind me in the hangar row...I know they are Lancair builders by trade, and they also put out an A/C system where the compressor runs off the Continental accessory drive, impressive stuff but nonetheless, I don't really know them...their Lancair superchargers are some of the best out there from what I have been told, but ummm... they tend to come down with frequency too. They do have a some affiliation with the Reno crowd...All speculation on my part...they are a high tech heady bunch if they are ones you're talking about. If not forgive, my finger pointing. You don't get a cold one at their joint, unless it's club soda so...as you might guess I don't visit often. :) But I do like club soda!!! Rick Sked 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David McNeill" Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 7:22:23 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vegas crash I think they may want to investigate what the supercharger could have contributed to the loss of power. We had a similar crash (N110UX) here both using a supercharger from a Vegas company. It was also a first flight with the supercharger. The loss of power was apparent to observers during the takeoff run; but he continued. Another perplexing item was the full fuel load unless this was intended to be the return to Show low AZ trip. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vegas crash If he came off 12L and established a positive rate of climb, it may have been a different story, There is a much great chance of survival if you use 12R it's 800 feet longer, 5000' vs. 4200 foot on 12 L and the overrun is well within the confines of the airport. Let me toss out a thought, to get over to 12 L you may be held on the tarmac a LONG time waiting to cross over and deal with inbound traffic getting to 12 L..., if he came out of the hangars in the south or as we call it and my hangar is located in this area the "Outback" which can be close to a mile of taxi to the hold short line of 12 R, let alone 12L, given the Velocity's pusher configuration and no positive airflow from the propeller into the air intakes for cooling, what are the chances of overheating with potential vapor lock during prolonged ground operation? With limited power it appears there was enough energy to carry him to the neighborhoods south east but unable to gain or maintain any altitude. I can't help but wonder if the abnormal engine operation was noted on initial take off roll but the flight pressed on in hopes of it clearing itself vs. aborting the takeoff...I'm sorry, I'm just speculating from my computer chair. I'm sure the velocity has the performance that making a decision to abort is more NOW then later...We may never know what Murph was thinking. If it were an RV-10 we could have been at 1000+ AGL, pattern altitude is 3000 AGL, field elevation is 2200 by the 4000 foot marker below, hopefully enough altitude to setup for the emergency. I think a properly performing Velocity would be comparable to an RV-10? I don't know it's numbers. Rick Sked 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: GenGrumpy@aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 5:27:50 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RV10-List: Vegas crash Thought I'd pass this along to keep all in the know here. grumpy do not archive Editor's Note: Below is the unedited text of the National Transportation Safety Board's preliminary report on last week's fatal crash of a Velocity 173RG in North Las Vegas, NV. Of note is the fact the accident flight was to be the first with the engine's supercharger engaged. According to the owner/builder of the aircraft, several high-speed taxi tests had been conducted with the supercharger engaged in the days prior to the accident. As ANN reported , the plane crashed into a home last Friday, just after takeoff from the North Las Vegas Airport (VGT). The accident claimed the lives of pilot Mack Creekmore Murphree Jr., 76, and two people living inside the home, identified as Jack and Lucy Costa. NTSB Identification: LAX08LA274 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Friday, August 22, 2008 in North Las Vegas, NV Aircraft: Killgore M/Killgore K Velocity 173RG, registration: N415MK Injuries: 3 Fatal. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On August 22, 2008, at 0628 Pacific daylight time, an experimental Killgore M/Killgore K Velocity 173RG, N415MK, collided with a residential building in North Las Vegas, Nevada. The airplane is registered to the owner/builder and it was being operated by the pilot under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91. The certificated airline transport pilot and two people on the ground were killed. Post impact fire destroyed the airplane and partially burned the residence. The local flight departed North Las Vegas Airport at 0627. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed. Preliminary information obtained from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) revealed that the airplane departed North Las Vegas from runway 12 left. Shortly after takeoff the air traffic controller observed that the airplane was not gaining altitude. The controller asked the pilot if he needed assistance, to which the pilot responded, "I'm going down, I'm going down." The airplane then collided with a house 1.1 miles southeast of the airport. The owner/builder was interviewed by the National Transportation Safety Board investigator-in-charge after the accident. He reported that the engine was equipped with a supercharger, and that the purpose of the flight was to test the performance of the airplane and engine with the supercharger engaged. He further reported that the supercharger was tested on multiple occasions during high speed taxi tests and ground runs the week prior to the accident, but that this was to be the first time it would be engaged for flight. The pilot held an airline transport pilot certificate with ratings for airplane single engine land, multiengine land, and instrument airplane. He additionally held a flight engineer certificate, mechanic certificate, and a flight instructor certificate for airplane single engine, multiengine, and instrument airplane. On his latest FAA third-class medical application, dated September 7, 2006, the pilot stated that he had amassed 6,250 hours of total flight time. The canard configuration, four-seat, low-wing, retractable gear airplane, was issued a Special Airworthiness Certificate on March 9, 2008. It was powered by a Lycoming IO-360-C1C, engine and equipped with a three bladed MT-Propeller, model MTV-18-B. The Experimental Amateur-Built Airplane Operating Limitations for the accident airplane specified the following compliance under the section: Phase 1 Limitations-Initial Flight Testing, 'After a minimum time of (5) hours, and after controllability, airworthiness, and safety checks required by FAR 90.319(b) and chapter 4 of Advisory Circular 90.89A are established and recorded in the airplane logbook the airplane then may complete the remaining hours required in Phase 1 while based at North Las Vegas Airport (VGT); OR, a one time flight to the "Airplane Base of Operations" may also be conducted remaining clear of all densely populated areas and congested airways. NOTE: Airplane Base of Operations: Show Low Regional Airport (KSOW). This airplane must be operated for at least 25 (Twenty Five) hours in the assigned geographic areas' Review of the airplane maintenance logbook records revealed that on March 17, 2008, the airplane had amassed a total flight time of 5.1 hours. A logbook entry for that date noted, 'This airplane meets all the controllability, airworthiness, and safety checks required by FAR 91.319(b) and chapter 4 of advisory circular 90-89A. _____ It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ttp://forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com = --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD,=EF=BD=03g(=EF =BD=EF=BD=EF=BDM=EF=BDGq=EF=BDz=EF=BD=EF=BD ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:12 PM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vegas crash John, I won't comment on specifics...I know what I know...and John, if you were c alling in artillery you would now be saying fire for effect...but until I v isit the closed doors behind me ( heh heh again), overthere and up thataway ...hold your fire... KVGT has a fair amount of innovative developers on se veral fronts...lots of propped up doors with nifty things round cheer. But Jess Meyers (did I spell it right Jess?)=C2-is always ready to show and t alk about his RV-6=C2-powered by a Chevy=C2- V-6 belted airpower drive that keeps going and going and going...as far as the supercharger? Too many investigators around here now...I'm just a quiet RV builder with a normall y aspirated 263 HP Lycoming built by and tested by BPE in Oklahoma..wanna s ee my engine logbook? Rick do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Cox" < johnwcox @ pacificnw .com> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:32:30 PM ( GMT-0800 ) America/ Los_Angeles Subject: RE: RV10-List : Vegas crash Okay Rick, after losing Shannon Knoeflein and his plastic aircraft N98SN de parting OSH '04 , you now have my curiosity. Shannon was running a Vortec Supercharger from Rick Schrameck's company in Las Vegas on his winning Lancair Legacy.=C2- The same Rick Schrameck that conceived, financed and produces the controversial and sexy EPIC (now of B end, OR).=C2- The same pursuit that triggered the FAA investigation and r ewrite of the 51% policy we all feel so acutely.=C2- Do name who your nei ghbor is!=C2- Do tell us if the Velocity ( N110UX ) was running a Schrame ck Vortec Supercharger.=C2- I have lots of pictures for the curious on th e gorgeous kit he assembles for sale to those of Stout Heart.=C2- Kit bui lders should tread lightly with Superchargers, Turbochargers and other exot ic mods on our beloved RV-10s - YMMV.=C2- Lancair does not have a Supercharger=C2- offering, however there are inde pendent professional builders who offer aftermarket knockoffs (Don Barnes c omes to mind).=C2- Most exotic variants are the Continental TSIO-550 with intercoolers .=C2- Darrel Greenemeier (Reno) comes to mind with Andy Chi avetti's mods.=C2- Now Lycoming ( Lycosaurus ) has responded with the twi n Intercooler , FADEC Lycoming IO-540 variant in both Certified and Thunder bolt iterations for the 21st Century Evolution OBAM . The gene pool is too shallow to fund too many losses each year.=C2- Let's make '2009 less than three , "Shall we?" John Cox do not archive From: owner-rv10-list-server @ matronics .com [ mailto : owner-rv10-list-se rver @ matronics .com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 7:56 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List : Vegas crash Good points David,=C2- I think I'm familiar with the company you are referencing, matter of fact t hey are right behind me in the hangar row...I know they are Lancair builder s by trade,=C2-and they also put out an =C2-A/C system where the compre ssor runs off the Continental accessory drive, impressive stuff but nonethe less, I don't really know them...their Lancair superchargers are some of th e best out there from what I have been told, but ummm ... they tend to come down with frequency too. They do have a some affiliation with the Reno cro wd...All speculation on my part...they are a high tech heady bunch if they are=C2-ones you're talking about. If not forgive, my finger pointing. You don't get a cold one at their joint, unless it's club soda so...as you mig ht guess I don't visit often. :) But I do like club soda!!! Rick Sked 40185 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David McNeill " < dlm46007 @cox.net> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 7:22:23 PM ( GMT-0800 ) America/ Los_Angeles Subject: RE: RV10-List : Vegas crash I think they may want to investigate what the supercharger could have contr ibuted to the loss of power. We had a similar crash ( N110UX ) here both us ing a supercharger from a Vegas company. It was also a first flight with th e supercharger. The loss of power was apparent to observers during the take off run; but he continued. Another perplexing item was the full fuel load u nless this was intended to be the return to Show low AZ trip. From: owner-rv10-list-server @ matronics .com [ mailto : owner-rv10-list-se rver @ matronics .com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List : Vegas crash If he came off 12L and=C2- established a=C2-positive rate of climb,=C2 - it may have been a different story, There is a much great chance of sur vival if you use 12R it's 800 feet longer, 5000'=C2- vs. 4200 foot on 12 L and the overrun is well within the confines of the airport. Let me toss o ut a thought, to get over to 12 L you may be held=C2-on the tarmac a LONG time waiting to cross over and deal with inbound traffic getting to 12 L.. ., if he came out of the hangars in the south or as we call it and my hanga r is located in this area=C2-the "Outback"=C2- which can be close to a mile of taxi to the hold short line of 12 R, let alone 12L , given=C2-the =C2-Velocity's pusher configuration and no positive airflow from the prop eller into the air intakes for cooling,=C2-=C2-what are the chances of =C2-overheating with potential vapor lock during prolonged ground operati on? =C2-With limited power it appears there was enough energy to carry hi m to the neighborhoods south east but unable to gain or maintain=C2-any a ltitude.=C2-I can't help but wonder if the abnormal engine operation was =C2-noted on=C2-initial take off roll=C2-but the flight pressed on in hopes of it clearing itself=C2- vs. aborting the takeoff...I'm sorry, I' m just speculating from my computer chair. I'm sure the velocity has the pe rformance that making a decision to abort is more NOW then later...We may n ever know what Murph was thinking. If it were an RV-10 we=C2-could have b een at 1000+ AGL , pattern altitude is 3000 AGL , field elevation is 2200 =C2- by the 4000 foot marker below, hopefully enough altitude to setup fo r the emergency. I think a properly performing Velocity would be comparable to an RV-10 ? I don't know it's numbers. Rick Sked 40185=C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: GenGrumpy @ aol .com Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 5:27:50 PM ( GMT-0800 ) America/ Los_Angele s Subject: RV10-List : Vegas crash Thought I'd pass this along to keep all in the know here. grumpy do not archive Editor's Note: Below is the unedited text of the National Transportation Sa fety Board's preliminary report on last week's fatal crash of a Velocity 17 3RG in North Las Vegas, NV. Of note is the fact the accident flight was to be the first with the engine 's supercharger engaged. According to the owner/builder of the aircraft, se veral high-speed taxi tests had been conducted with the supercharger engage d in the days prior to the accident. As ANN reported , the plane crashed into a home last Friday, just after tak eoff from the North Las Vegas Airport ( VGT ). The accident claimed the liv es of pilot Mack Creekmore Murphree Jr., 76, and two people living inside t he home, identified as Jack and Lucy Costa. NTSB Identification: LAX08LA274 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Friday, August 22, 2008 in North Las Vegas, NV Aircraft: Killgore M/ Killgore K Velocity 173RG , registration: N415MK Injuries: 3 Fatal. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On August 22, 2008, at 0628 Pacific daylight time, an experimental Killgore M/ Killgore K Velocity 173RG , N415MK , collided with a residential buildi ng in North Las Vegas, Nevada. The airplane is registered to the owner/buil der and it was being operated by the pilot under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91. The certificated airline transport pilot an d two people on the ground were killed. Post impact fire destroyed the airp lane and partially burned the residence. The local flight departed North La s Vegas Airport at 0627. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed. Preliminary information obtained from the Federal Aviation Administration ( FAA) revealed that the airplane departed North Las Vegas from runway 12 lef t. Shortly after takeoff the air traffic controller observed that the airpl ane was not gaining altitude. The controller asked the pilot if he needed a ssistance, to which the pilot responded, "I'm going down, I'm going down." The airplane then collided with a house 1.1 miles southeast of the airport. The owner/builder was interviewed by the National Transportation Safety Boa rd investigator-in-charge after the accident. He reported that the engine w as equipped with a supercharger, and that the purpose of the flight was to test the performance of the airplane and engine with the supercharger engag ed. He further reported that the supercharger was tested on multiple occasi ons during high speed taxi tests and ground runs the week prior to the acci dent, but that this was to be the first time it would be engaged for flight . The pilot held an airline transport pilot certificate with ratings for airp lane single engine land, multiengine land, and instrument airplane. He addi tionally held a flight engineer certificate, mechanic certificate, and a fl ight instructor certificate for airplane single engine, multiengine , and i nstrument airplane. On his latest FAA third-class medical application, date d September 7, 2006, the pilot stated that he had amassed 6,250 hours of to tal flight time. The canard configuration, four-seat , low-wing , retractable gear airplane, was issued a Special Airworthiness Certificate on March 9, 2008. It was po wered by a Lycoming IO-360-C1C , engine and equipped with a three bladed MT -Propeller , model MTV-18-B . The Experimental Amateur-Built Airplane Operating Limitations for the accid ent airplane specified the following compliance under the section: Phase 1 Limitations-Initial Flight Testing, 'After a minimum time of (5) hours, and after controllability , airworthine ss, and safety checks required by FAR 90.319(b) and chapter 4 of Advisory C ircular 90. 89A are established and recorded in the airplane logbook the ai rplane then may complete the remaining hours required in Phase 1 while base d at North Las Vegas Airport ( VGT ); OR, a one time flight to the "Airplan e Base of Operations" may also be conducted remaining clear of all densely populated areas and congested airways. NOTE: Airplane Base of Operations: S how Low Regional Airport ( KSOW ). This airplane must be operated for at le ast 25 (Twenty Five) hours in the assigned geographic areas' Review of the airplane maintenance logbook records revealed that on March 1 7, 2008, the airplane had amassed a total flight time of 5.1 hours. A logbo ok entry for that date noted, 'This airplane meets all the controllability , airworthiness, and safety checks required by FAR 91.319(b) and chapter 4 of advisory circular 90-89A . It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here . =C2- =C2- get= _blank > http :// www . matronics .com/Navigator? RV1 0-List p://forums. matronics .com blank> http :// www . matronics .com/cont ribution =C2- =C2- =C2- href =" http :// www . matronics .com/Navig ator? RV10-List "> http :// www . matronics .com/Navigator? RV10-List href =" http ://forums. matronics .com"> http ://forums. matronics .com href =" http :// www . matronics .com/contribution"> http :// www . matronics .com/c =C2- =C2- http :// www . matronics .com/Navigator? RV10-List ttp ://forums. matronics .com/" target= _blank > http ://forums. matronics . com = --> http :// www . matronics .com/contribution =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- -M ================ =C2- =EF=BD=EF=BD =EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD,=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD%=EF=BD=EF=BD M4=EF=BD =EF=BD x=EF=BD =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDw=EF=BD r =EF=BD =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:44 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vegas crash From: "John Cox" UGFwZXJ3b3JrIGJlIGRhbW5lZCwgYWx0aG91Z2ggSSB3b3VsZCBsb3ZlIHRvIHNlZSBhIEJhcnJl dHQgRHlubyByZXBvcnQuICBUaGF0IGlzIHNvbWV0aGluZyBtb3N0IHB1cmNoYXNlcnMgbmV2ZXIg Z2V0LiAgIEkgd2FudCB0byBzZWUgaXQgZmx5IHRob3VnaC4gIE9yIHJlYWQgYWJvdXQgeW91ciBz YWZlIEZpcnN0IEZsaWdodCAtIGhlcmUuDQoNCiANCg0KTm93IG9uIHRvIEtpdCBidWlsZHMsIDEw 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