Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:57 AM - Re: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins (egohr1)
2. 07:16 AM - Re: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins (Ben Westfall)
3. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins (LES KEARNEY)
4. 10:35 AM - Re: Re: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins (Albert Gardner)
5. 01:28 PM - Re: Re: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins (William Curtis)
6. 01:46 PM - Chelton Trutrak interface (David McNeill)
7. 02:24 PM - Airbox for BPE Cold Induction & SJ Cowl (Robin Marks)
8. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins (Bob Leffler)
9. 04:54 PM - Re: AFS WX & AP software (GRT WX??) (bcondrey)
10. 05:38 PM - Re: tire pressure (linn Walters)
11. 06:18 PM - Re: Chelton Trutrak interface (gengrumpy@aol.com)
12. 07:38 PM - Re: Re: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins (Ben Westfall)
13. 11:05 PM - Official RV10-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
14. 11:07 PM - Official RV10-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins |
After a little bit of head scratching, it came back to me. I used the attached
bucking bar on those rivets.
Eric Gohr
All the things left after the finishing kit
--------
eric gohr
EGOHR86@alumni.carnegiemellon.edu
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1955#201955
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4932_154.jpg
Message 2
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| Subject: | Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins |
Bob,
I remember that lots of cussing helped! I used a small 1" by 1.5" steel
bucking bar that I have (which hurts like hell to use btw). If you haven't
already bought a tungsten bar I'd recommend shelling out for one. They are
often small enough to get into tight places such as this.
-Ben Westfall
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 5:49 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins
I'm in the process of finishing riveting the top wings skins, but I've run
into a snag that I need assistance to overcome.
The area that I'm having difficulties are the rivets that go through the top
wing skin and the rear spar, at the inboard end of the wing where the
W-1007C doubler is located. This row of rivets seems impossible to reach.
I can take a photo if that would assist anyone.
The problem is that because of the W-1007C doubler, you can't get into the
rivet with a back rivet set or any of the bucking bars that I have. I do
have a couple bucking bars that are angled to get them into tight places,
but they are still too thick in this instance..
Since there have been many going before me and I can't seem to find any
references to others having difficulties, I must be overlooking something
obvious.
I tried using a chisel, but the results weren't good. I could get the chisel
into the back, but it push the rivet out and I wasn't able to get the head
of the rivet flat. I guess the other choice is to drill out the rivets on
the W1007C doubler, rivet the skin, the re-rivet the doubler. But that sure
would be a pain, with the ribs so close together.
I'm open to any suggestions at this point.
Thanks!
Bob
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins |
Hi
Perhaps the limited use of Cherry Max rivets in really tight spots would be a worthwile
approach. If you are messing up rivets in difficult to reach spots, tryng
something different may be in order.
By the way, I agree with Ben that a tungsten bar a great idea. IMHO, it is the
single best rivetting tool you can get. You'd have to pry mine from my cold dead
hands....
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Westfall <rv10@sinkrate.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins
> Bob,
>
>
>
> I remember that lots of cussing helped! I used a small 1"
> by 1.5" steel
> bucking bar that I have (which hurts like hell to use
> btw). If you haven't
> already bought a tungsten bar I'd recommend shelling out for
> one. They are
> often small enough to get into tight places such as this.
>
>
>
> -Ben Westfall
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
> Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 5:49 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins
>
>
>
> I'm in the process of finishing riveting the top wings skins,
> but I've run
> into a snag that I need assistance to overcome.
>
>
>
> The area that I'm having difficulties are the rivets that go
> through the top
> wing skin and the rear spar, at the inboard end of the
> wing where the
> W-1007C doubler is located. This row of rivets seems
> impossible to reach.
> I can take a photo if that would assist anyone.
>
>
>
> The problem is that because of the W-1007C doubler, you can't
> get into the
> rivet with a back rivet set or any of the bucking bars that I
> have. I do
> have a couple bucking bars that are angled to get them into
> tight places,
> but they are still too thick in this instance..
>
>
>
> Since there have been many going before me and I can't seem to
> find any
> references to others having difficulties, I must be overlooking
> somethingobvious.
>
>
>
> I tried using a chisel, but the results weren't good. I could
> get the chisel
> into the back, but it push the rivet out and I wasn't able to
> get the head
> of the rivet flat. I guess the other choice is to drill
> out the rivets on
> the W1007C doubler, rivet the skin, the re-rivet the
> doubler. But that sure
> would be a pain, with the ribs so close together.
>
>
>
> I'm open to any suggestions at this point.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins |
Every tool was designed to someone else's specifications-maybe you can
redesign one to meet your specific requirements. My grinder has altered the
design of several of my bucking bars and the pop rivet tool among others.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins |
With respects to the "purest" out there, I've found that; rather than trying to
put a solid rivet in any hard to reach location, instead use a MK-319 BS. You
will mess up less skin going this route.
A while back I was about to order some MK-319BS from Van's. In addition to the
$4 handling charge, MK-319 BS from Van's are $0.22 each. I was looking for some
other items at Aircraft Spruce and found that they carry the MK-319 BS equivalent
Cherry rivets for $0.15 each or 100 count for $13.50. A 100 count order
shipped priority mail is less than #20.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/cherryqrivet.php
No.: CCC-32
USM Equivalent: "MK319BS
Size: 3/32
Drill: 41
Grip: .125
There are some minor visual differences between the Van's MK-319 BS and the Cherry
CCC-32. The Van's MK-319 BS requires a hole larger than a #40 for placement
where as the CCC-32 does not. The stem on the CCC-32 is stainless whereas
the MK-319 BS is normal steel.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
-------- Original Message --------
> Hi
>
> Perhaps the limited use of Cherry Max rivets in really tight spots would be a
worthwile approach. If you are messing up rivets in difficult to reach spots,
tryng something different may be in order.
>
> By the way, I agree with Ben that a tungsten bar a great idea. IMHO, it is the
single best rivetting tool you can get. You'd have to pry mine from my cold
dead hands....
>
> Cheers
>
> Les Kearney
> #40643
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ben Westfall <rv10@sinkrate.com>
> Date: Monday, September 1, 2008 8:33 am
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
> > Bob,
> >
> >
> >
> > I remember that lots of cussing helped! I used a small 1"
> > by 1.5" steel
> > bucking bar that I have (which hurts like hell to use
> > btw). If you haven't
> > already bought a tungsten bar I'd recommend shelling out for
> > one. They are
> > often small enough to get into tight places such as this.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Ben Westfall
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
> > Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 5:49 PM
> > Subject: RV10-List: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm in the process of finishing riveting the top wings skins,
> > but I've run
> > into a snag that I need assistance to overcome.
> >
> >
> >
> > The area that I'm having difficulties are the rivets that go
> > through the top
> > wing skin and the rear spar, at the inboard end of the
> > wing where the
> > W-1007C doubler is located. This row of rivets seems
> > impossible to reach.
> > I can take a photo if that would assist anyone.
> >
> >
> >
> > The problem is that because of the W-1007C doubler, you can't
> > get into the
> > rivet with a back rivet set or any of the bucking bars that I
> > have. I do
> > have a couple bucking bars that are angled to get them into
> > tight places,
> > but they are still too thick in this instance..
> >
> >
> >
> > Since there have been many going before me and I can't seem to
> > find any
> > references to others having difficulties, I must be overlooking
> > somethingobvious.
> >
> >
> >
> > I tried using a chisel, but the results weren't good. I could
> > get the chisel
> > into the back, but it push the rivet out and I wasn't able to
> > get the head
> > of the rivet flat. I guess the other choice is to drill
> > out the rivets on
> > the W1007C doubler, rivet the skin, the re-rivet the
> > doubler. But that sure
> > would be a pain, with the ribs so close together.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm open to any suggestions at this point.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Message 6
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| Subject: | Chelton Trutrak interface |
This morning I allowed the AP to fly the complete approach ILS 5 @ CGZ. With
very minimal flaps and Vproc set to 100 it was still slightly fast at DH. I
will try it again with Vproc @ 90 and 1/2 flaps. Of course during the
approach I had to manage throttle and trim. Now for the "auto throttle
engage", "Beta" and "anti skid arm" options. Anybody offering these yet?
Message 7
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| Subject: | Airbox for BPE Cold Induction & SJ Cowl |
RV-10 List,
I finally got around to posting photos of our Air Box
solution to mate the BPE Forward Facing Cold Induction unit to the Sam
James Cowl. Please note that we have yet to lay up some fiberglass
inside the air box to eliminate the deep corners and smoothly guide the
air into the injector body.
I will post additional photos once we get the alternate air
flap fitted onto the top of the air box.
Part of the beauty of this design is the lower cowl and
filter should simply drop away from the injector body and upper air box
when the lower cowl is removed.
http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/Sj_Air_Box.htm
Robin
RV-4 Sold
RV-6A 440 Hours
RV-10 Ready, Set... Oh one more thing...
RV-8A Next...
Updated photos of the SJ Plenum:
http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/SJ%20Plenum.htm
Updated photos of the SJ Cowl:
http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/SjCowl.htm
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins |
Thanks to all that have replied.
I attempted Pascal's suggestion with a squeezer, but that didn't work well.
I'll admit it could be my skill level causing some of the issue.
For those that recommend either the short or long footed bucking bars from
Cleaveland, I have those, but they are too thick.
Since you can't ever have too many tools, I ordered an anvil style bucking
bar from Cleaveland that appears to have a thinner foot (BB83)
(http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BB83). If that is
still too thick, I'll start grinding.
As far as using MK-319 BS, I prefer not to use them in this particular
location. This is the top of the wing, so I'm going to perform a little
more due diligence before I give up. If this was the bottom skin, I
probably wouldn't think twice. Plus I now know I am going to have the same
issue when it comes to the bottom skin.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 1:34 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins
Every tool was designed to someone else's specifications-maybe you can
redesign one to meet your specific requirements. My grinder has altered the
design of several of my bucking bars and the pop rivet tool among others.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: AFS WX & AP software (GRT WX??) |
I've got the GRT XM Wx in my plane and all is working well. I don't have the dimensional
info handy but can send you some pictures of my install if you want/need
them (contact me offline). I've got the receiver mounted under the front
right seat up against the forward side of the spar.
If you go with the HX version of the GRT it uses a USB interface and talks directly
to the receiver. If you go with the HS or WS versions you'll also need the
processor box and it will interface using a high speed serial port. The receiver
that I got is actually a WxWorx unit.
Bob
N442PM (flying)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2051#202051
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: tire pressure |
David McNeill wrote:
> what tire pressures are being used? any recommended pressure in the plans?
Don't know. I don't use a gauge. I inflate until the outer rib on the
tire picks up off the ground. I get good, even tire wear.
Linn
> *
>
>
> *
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Chelton Trutrak interface |
Dave,
I've been trying to make the VSVG on GPS (non-lpv ones) do something
other than nearly 1,000 ft/min rate of descent. I've tried differeng
descent angles and descent rates, but they seem to be overridden by an
unseen force.
Have you experienced similar problems on VSVG descents to bug set
altitudes???
Maybe you're on to something on the Vproc speeds here........
Grumpy
-----Original Message-----
From: David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net>
Sent: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 3:44 pm
Subject: RV10-List: Chelton Trutrak interface
This morning I allowed the AP to fly the complete approach ILS 5 @ CGZ.
With very minimal flaps and Vproc set to 100 it was still slightly fast
at DH. I will try it again with Vproc @ 90 and 1/2 flaps. Of course
during the approach I had to manage throttle and trim. Now for the
"auto throttle engage", "Beta" and "anti skid arm" options. Anybody
offering these yet?
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins |
Bob,
It gets worse on the bottom skins because you have the flap attach brackets
to work around. I used a long (12" or more) back rivet set polished mirror
smooth on the manufactured head of the rivet and the tungsten bar on the
shop head side.
-Ben
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 3:37 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Need some advice on riveting RV-10 wing skins
Thanks to all that have replied.
I attempted Pascal's suggestion with a squeezer, but that didn't work well.
I'll admit it could be my skill level causing some of the issue.
For those that recommend either the short or long footed bucking bars from
Cleaveland, I have those, but they are too thick.
Since you can't ever have too many tools, I ordered an anvil style bucking
bar from Cleaveland that appears to have a thinner foot (BB83)
(http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BB83). If that is
still too thick, I'll start grinding.
As far as using MK-319 BS, I prefer not to use them in this particular
location. This is the top of the wing, so I'm going to perform a little
more due diligence before I give up. If this was the bottom skin, I
probably wouldn't think twice. Plus I now know I am going to have the same
issue when it comes to the bottom skin.
Bob
Message 13
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| Subject: | Official RV10-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
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email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the RV10-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the RV10-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rv10-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all RV10-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the RV10-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* RV10-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the RV10-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* RV10-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* RV10-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* RV10-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the RV10-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* RV10-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the RV10-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the RV10-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?RV10
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RV10-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV10-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RV10-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RV10-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV10-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 14
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| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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| Subject: | Official RV10-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the RV10-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
RV10-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV10-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RV10-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV10-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RV10-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RV10-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV10-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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