Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:08 AM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (Rene Felker)
2. 06:22 AM - Finished the AD on the tailcone... (Ted French)
3. 06:34 AM - Spinner blade clearance (Lew Gallagher)
4. 07:06 AM - Re: Spinner blade clearance (Rene Felker)
5. 07:31 AM - Re: Spinner blade clearance (Kelly McMullen)
6. 07:37 AM - Re: Spinner blade clearance (Jesse Saint)
7. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (Robin Marks)
8. 08:47 AM - Re: Spinner blade clearance (Rene Felker)
9. 09:18 AM - Re: Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (Dave Leikam)
10. 09:19 AM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (AirMike)
11. 09:57 AM - Re: Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (Rene Felker)
12. 10:17 AM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (Tim Olson)
13. 10:34 AM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (Rene Felker)
14. 11:16 AM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (Tim Olson)
15. 12:38 PM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (Vernon Smith)
16. 01:34 PM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (Tim Olson)
17. 06:33 PM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
18. 07:17 PM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (Jack Phillips)
19. 07:30 PM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (Vernon Smith)
20. 07:42 PM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazin (Kelly McMullen)
21. 09:09 PM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (Rick Sked)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Weld-on 10 & crazing |
Same thing happened to me. I have seen no growth since I have been
flying...~50 hrs.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Smith
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:58 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
Well folks I'm not a happy camper,
Just finished installing my windshield with Weld-on 10, and there is crazing
where some clamps were on the sides, photo & details below. So here are my
questions:
1: How common is crazing at the glue joint?
1: If left as is will the crazing run across the window?
2: Is there anything (other than replacement) that will keep it from
creeping? The crazing is small and can easily be hidden as long as it
doesn't keep creeping.
The fine print: I have installed all the other windows with no problems
using foam blocks and straps to clamp it in place. The windshield was
installed at 80 degrees. Main pressure was from a strap & foam blocks with
additional clamps on sides (the area of the crazing.) Only rubbing alcohol
was used for cleaning. Edges sanded completely smooth with no nick or
scratches. The gluing surfaces were roughed up with 240 grit sand paper.
The crazing was noticed 1 1/2 hours after I started the gluing process. At
which time I removed the side clamps. And called Scott at Van's, he has
requested pictures.
Any help or suggestion would be appreciated,
Vern Smith (#324 finishing sort of)
_____
See how Windows Mobile brings your life
togetgo/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/' target='_new'>See Now
Message 2
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| Subject: | Finished the AD on the tailcone... |
I just finished adding the doublers to the bulkhead on my flying RV-10. This
is a job that could probably be done in one very long day, but I took 3 days
to do it. Moving the horizontal stab to the top of the fuselage and turning
it upside down works very well. In fact, once the deck is de-rivited, it
could be moved somewhere else as long as it goes back before riviting the
deck back down.
I did not have any help moving parts around. To flip the stab to the fuse
top I put a board across the deck and supported the leading edge of the stab
with it. Worked well... I left the elevators attached to the stab.
I'll post pictures on my blog shortly.
Do Not Archive
Ted French C-FXCS
RV-10 Flying
Message 3
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| Subject: | Spinner blade clearance |
Well, I'm sitting here on vacation at the outer banks (surf fish on Ocracoke Is.
every Sept. for the past 45 yrs. -- was here on 9/11/01 also) ... and I'm building
the -10 in my mind. Go figgur!
The Hartzell prop came in right before I left and we temporarily mounted it in
order to fit the cowl and spinner. As I recall, the instructions say to make
sure the cut outs in the spinner for the blades have enough clearance through
the pitch cycle ...?????
It may be obvious (since I searched the archives and found no one else seems to
have this problem), but how do you rotate the blades through their pitch manually?
Later, - Lew
(keeping an eye out for hurricanes and eating lots of fresh Bluefish -- there
IS a landing strip out here, send me an email and I'll meet you there!)
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3793#203793
Message 4
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| Subject: | Spinner blade clearance |
I clamped padded boards to the blades and then used the boards as a lever.
I think the boards were only two feet or so. Gives you enough of a lever to
move them. Sorry no pictures.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 7:34 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Spinner blade clearance
Well, I'm sitting here on vacation at the outer banks (surf fish on Ocracoke
Is. every Sept. for the past 45 yrs. -- was here on 9/11/01 also) ... and
I'm building the -10 in my mind. Go figgur!
The Hartzell prop came in right before I left and we temporarily mounted it
in order to fit the cowl and spinner. As I recall, the instructions say to
make sure the cut outs in the spinner for the blades have enough clearance
through the pitch cycle ...?????
It may be obvious (since I searched the archives and found no one else seems
to have this problem), but how do you rotate the blades through their pitch
manually?
Later, - Lew
(keeping an eye out for hurricanes and eating lots of fresh Bluefish --
there IS a landing strip out here, send me an email and I'll meet you
there!)
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3793#203793
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner blade clearance |
Why would you need to rotate the blades? Seems you could just measure
widest spot on the blades at the root and ensure your opening is
circular with a diameter of that widest spot plus 2 times the clearance
value you want. Or am I missing something?
Rene Felker wrote:
>
> I clamped padded boards to the blades and then used the boards as a lever.
> I think the boards were only two feet or so. Gives you enough of a lever to
> move them. Sorry no pictures.
>
> Rene' Felker
> RV-10 N423CF Flying
> 801-721-6080
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 7:34 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Spinner blade clearance
>
>
> Well, I'm sitting here on vacation at the outer banks (surf fish on Ocracoke
> Is. every Sept. for the past 45 yrs. -- was here on 9/11/01 also) ... and
> I'm building the -10 in my mind. Go figgur!
>
> The Hartzell prop came in right before I left and we temporarily mounted it
> in order to fit the cowl and spinner. As I recall, the instructions say to
> make sure the cut outs in the spinner for the blades have enough clearance
> through the pitch cycle ...?????
>
> It may be obvious (since I searched the archives and found no one else seems
> to have this problem), but how do you rotate the blades through their pitch
> manually?
>
>
> Later, - Lew
> (keeping an eye out for hurricanes and eating lots of fresh Bluefish --
> there IS a landing strip out here, send me an email and I'll meet you
> there!)
>
> --------
> non-pilot
> crazy about building
> NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
> Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3793#203793
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner blade clearance |
You can twist it by hand, but using a couple of 2x4's with a 1x?
spacer (as Rene mentioned) with a rag or foam padding makes it a
little easier if you are doing it by yourself.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Lew Gallagher wrote:
>
> Well, I'm sitting here on vacation at the outer banks (surf fish on
> Ocracoke Is. every Sept. for the past 45 yrs. -- was here on
> 9/11/01 also) ... and I'm building the -10 in my mind. Go figgur!
>
> The Hartzell prop came in right before I left and we temporarily
> mounted it in order to fit the cowl and spinner. As I recall, the
> instructions say to make sure the cut outs in the spinner for the
> blades have enough clearance through the pitch cycle ...?????
>
> It may be obvious (since I searched the archives and found no one
> else seems to have this problem), but how do you rotate the blades
> through their pitch manually?
>
>
> Later, - Lew
> (keeping an eye out for hurricanes and eating lots of fresh
> Bluefish -- there IS a landing strip out here, send me an email and
> I'll meet you there!)
>
> --------
> non-pilot
> crazy about building
> NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
> Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3793#203793
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing |
Mike, You forgot the gull wing door design that can depart the aircraft
when the latch is disengaged.
Robin
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:38 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing
I am not flying yet, but had the same thing happen to me with one of my
side windows. It is really frustrating and it seems 10x as big a deal
with the front windscreen. It has not spread on mine, but it is not
really subject to vibration yet. I am leaving it, but on the main
windscreen, I would have to think about it. Stop drilling is always an
option and works well on plexi. I did it on an old Piper Archer that I
had.
My three big beefs with the basically superb RV10 design are: 1)the
structural windows that cannot be removed and replaced easily 2) the
riveted down floors in the back with no inspection holes (I made some)
and 3) electric pitch trim w/o manual backup
--------
OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3758#203758
Message 8
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| Subject: | Spinner blade clearance |
Been a while since I did it. But.....the blades only rotate part way
(degrees of pitch) and you do not end up with a circular hole. You could
just cut the hole to fit worst case blade movement, but then you would end
up with a larger gap than needed........might slow you down by .000000001
MPH.....:)
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Spinner blade clearance
Why would you need to rotate the blades? Seems you could just measure
widest spot on the blades at the root and ensure your opening is
circular with a diameter of that widest spot plus 2 times the clearance
value you want. Or am I missing something?
Rene Felker wrote:
>
> I clamped padded boards to the blades and then used the boards as a lever.
> I think the boards were only two feet or so. Gives you enough of a lever
to
> move them. Sorry no pictures.
>
> Rene' Felker
> RV-10 N423CF Flying
> 801-721-6080
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 7:34 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Spinner blade clearance
>
>
> Well, I'm sitting here on vacation at the outer banks (surf fish on
Ocracoke
> Is. every Sept. for the past 45 yrs. -- was here on 9/11/01 also) ... and
> I'm building the -10 in my mind. Go figgur!
>
> The Hartzell prop came in right before I left and we temporarily mounted
it
> in order to fit the cowl and spinner. As I recall, the instructions say
to
> make sure the cut outs in the spinner for the blades have enough clearance
> through the pitch cycle ...?????
>
> It may be obvious (since I searched the archives and found no one else
seems
> to have this problem), but how do you rotate the blades through their
pitch
> manually?
>
>
> Later, - Lew
> (keeping an eye out for hurricanes and eating lots of fresh Bluefish --
> there IS a landing strip out here, send me an email and I'll meet you
> there!)
>
> --------
> non-pilot
> crazy about building
> NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
> Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3793#203793
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing |
Why does the crazing occur? Is it the product? Or process?
I plan on using 3M 2216 for my windows.
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1@mrmoisture.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:47 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing
>
> Mike, You forgot the gull wing door design that can depart the aircraft
> when the latch is disengaged.
>
> Robin
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:38 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing
>
>
> I am not flying yet, but had the same thing happen to me with one of my
> side windows. It is really frustrating and it seems 10x as big a deal
> with the front windscreen. It has not spread on mine, but it is not
> really subject to vibration yet. I am leaving it, but on the main
> windscreen, I would have to think about it. Stop drilling is always an
> option and works well on plexi. I did it on an old Piper Archer that I
> had.
>
> My three big beefs with the basically superb RV10 design are: 1)the
> structural windows that cannot be removed and replaced easily 2) the
> riveted down floors in the back with no inspection holes (I made some)
> and 3) electric pitch trim w/o manual backup
>
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
> Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3758#203758
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing |
Amen on the Gull Wing Door
--------
OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3824#203824
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing |
My very uneducated guess......heat/compression. It only happened where I
had the windshield clamped and extra Weldon under the clamp.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing
Why does the crazing occur? Is it the product? Or process?
I plan on using 3M 2216 for my windows.
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Marks" <robin1@mrmoisture.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:47 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing
>
> Mike, You forgot the gull wing door design that can depart the aircraft
> when the latch is disengaged.
>
> Robin
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:38 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing
>
>
> I am not flying yet, but had the same thing happen to me with one of my
> side windows. It is really frustrating and it seems 10x as big a deal
> with the front windscreen. It has not spread on mine, but it is not
> really subject to vibration yet. I am leaving it, but on the main
> windscreen, I would have to think about it. Stop drilling is always an
> option and works well on plexi. I did it on an old Piper Archer that I
> had.
>
> My three big beefs with the basically superb RV10 design are: 1)the
> structural windows that cannot be removed and replaced easily 2) the
> riveted down floors in the back with no inspection holes (I made some)
> and 3) electric pitch trim w/o manual backup
>
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
> Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3758#203758
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing |
You know, the common thread I see when people bring up crazing
with window installation is the use of clamps. I did use some
clamps, but not very tight clamps on mine....I think I may have
only used those squeeze clamps that you open with your hands.
Either way, I didn't use tons of pressure, just used them to
hold position. I had no crazing.
I'm starting to wonder if the people having crazing aren't
maybe using a bit more pressure on their clamps, or perhaps
not spreading the force out enough on the windows.
I'd say, pad the clamps, and don't clamp any tighter than
necessary to hold the window in position. Don't try to
squeeze out excess glue, just position it. I don't
know WHY clamping with pressure would add to the problem,
but I do notice that in almost all cases, the person
said it either crazed where the clamps were, or at least
that they had used clamps. I'm betting this is the cause
somehow.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Vernon Smith wrote:
> Well folks I'm not a happy camper,
>
> Just finished installing my windshield with Weld-on 10, and there is
> crazing where some clamps were on the sides, photo & details below. So
> here are my questions:
>
> 1: How common is crazing at the glue joint?
>
> 1: If left as is will the crazing run across the window?
>
> 2: Is there anything (other than replacement) that will keep it from
> creeping? The crazing is small and can easily be hidden as long as it
> doesn't keep creeping.
>
> The fine print: I have installed all the other windows with no problems
> using foam blocks and straps to clamp it in place. The windshield was
> installed at 80 degrees. Main pressure was from a strap & foam blocks
> with additional clamps on sides (the area of the crazing.) Only rubbing
> alcohol was used for cleaning. Edges sanded completely smooth with no
> nick or scratches. The gluing surfaces were roughed up with 240 grit
> sand paper.
>
> The crazing was noticed 1 1/2 hours after I started the gluing process.
> At which time I removed the side clamps. And called Scott at Van's, he
> has requested pictures.
>
> Any help or suggestion would be appreciated,
>
> Vern Smith (#324 finishing sort of)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> See how Windows Mobile brings your life
> togetgo/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/' target='_new'>See Now
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Weld-on 10 & crazing |
Don't know for sure, but just assuming that the clamping pressure increases
the temperature of the Weldon during the curing process. It would not take
much initial clamp pressure to do that once the Weldon starts to expand
during the curing process. I would add that in my case I wiped off the
excess Weldon except for the area under the clamp.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
You know, the common thread I see when people bring up crazing
with window installation is the use of clamps. I did use some
clamps, but not very tight clamps on mine....I think I may have
only used those squeeze clamps that you open with your hands.
Either way, I didn't use tons of pressure, just used them to
hold position. I had no crazing.
I'm starting to wonder if the people having crazing aren't
maybe using a bit more pressure on their clamps, or perhaps
not spreading the force out enough on the windows.
I'd say, pad the clamps, and don't clamp any tighter than
necessary to hold the window in position. Don't try to
squeeze out excess glue, just position it. I don't
know WHY clamping with pressure would add to the problem,
but I do notice that in almost all cases, the person
said it either crazed where the clamps were, or at least
that they had used clamps. I'm betting this is the cause
somehow.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Vernon Smith wrote:
> Well folks I'm not a happy camper,
>
> Just finished installing my windshield with Weld-on 10, and there is
> crazing where some clamps were on the sides, photo & details below. So
> here are my questions:
>
> 1: How common is crazing at the glue joint?
>
> 1: If left as is will the crazing run across the window?
>
> 2: Is there anything (other than replacement) that will keep it from
> creeping? The crazing is small and can easily be hidden as long as it
> doesn't keep creeping.
>
> The fine print: I have installed all the other windows with no problems
> using foam blocks and straps to clamp it in place. The windshield was
> installed at 80 degrees. Main pressure was from a strap & foam blocks
> with additional clamps on sides (the area of the crazing.) Only rubbing
> alcohol was used for cleaning. Edges sanded completely smooth with no
> nick or scratches. The gluing surfaces were roughed up with 240 grit
> sand paper.
>
> The crazing was noticed 1 1/2 hours after I started the gluing process.
> At which time I removed the side clamps. And called Scott at Van's, he
> has requested pictures.
>
> Any help or suggestion would be appreciated,
>
> Vern Smith (#324 finishing sort of)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> See how Windows Mobile brings your life
> togetgo/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/' target='_new'>See Now
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing |
I think I wiped off mine too....tried to fillet the inside, and
get rid of gobs on the outside. That stuff dries so tough
that you wouldn't want to have to do all the work after
it cures. You're probably right....heat, pressure, and
probably the chemical makeup, probably all acting together
when clamped.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Rene Felker wrote:
>
> Don't know for sure, but just assuming that the clamping pressure increases
> the temperature of the Weldon during the curing process. It would not take
> much initial clamp pressure to do that once the Weldon starts to expand
> during the curing process. I would add that in my case I wiped off the
> excess Weldon except for the area under the clamp.
>
> Rene' Felker
> RV-10 N423CF Flying
> 801-721-6080
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 11:17 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
>
>
> You know, the common thread I see when people bring up crazing
> with window installation is the use of clamps. I did use some
> clamps, but not very tight clamps on mine....I think I may have
> only used those squeeze clamps that you open with your hands.
> Either way, I didn't use tons of pressure, just used them to
> hold position. I had no crazing.
>
> I'm starting to wonder if the people having crazing aren't
> maybe using a bit more pressure on their clamps, or perhaps
> not spreading the force out enough on the windows.
>
> I'd say, pad the clamps, and don't clamp any tighter than
> necessary to hold the window in position. Don't try to
> squeeze out excess glue, just position it. I don't
> know WHY clamping with pressure would add to the problem,
> but I do notice that in almost all cases, the person
> said it either crazed where the clamps were, or at least
> that they had used clamps. I'm betting this is the cause
> somehow.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
>
> Vernon Smith wrote:
>> Well folks I'm not a happy camper,
>>
>> Just finished installing my windshield with Weld-on 10, and there is
>> crazing where some clamps were on the sides, photo & details below. So
>> here are my questions:
>>
>> 1: How common is crazing at the glue joint?
>>
>> 1: If left as is will the crazing run across the window?
>>
>> 2: Is there anything (other than replacement) that will keep it from
>> creeping? The crazing is small and can easily be hidden as long as it
>> doesn't keep creeping.
>>
>> The fine print: I have installed all the other windows with no problems
>> using foam blocks and straps to clamp it in place. The windshield was
>> installed at 80 degrees. Main pressure was from a strap & foam blocks
>> with additional clamps on sides (the area of the crazing.) Only rubbing
>> alcohol was used for cleaning. Edges sanded completely smooth with no
>> nick or scratches. The gluing surfaces were roughed up with 240 grit
>> sand paper.
>>
>> The crazing was noticed 1 1/2 hours after I started the gluing process.
>> At which time I removed the side clamps. And called Scott at Van's, he
>> has requested pictures.
>>
>> Any help or suggestion would be appreciated,
>>
>> Vern Smith (#324 finishing sort of)
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> See how Windows Mobile brings your life
>> togetgo/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/' target='_new'>See Now
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Weld-on 10 & crazing |
Hi Tim=2C
I used the same hand type clamps as shown on your web site during install o
f your window. All clamps were padded with layers of masking tape. There i
s no sign of deflection of the acrylic during or after clamping=2C but mayb
e hand springe clamps are not the best choice. The thought that direct pres
sure on the Weld-on cause it to set off is an interesting idea.
I am in contact with IPS technical service (they manufacture Weld-on) and t
hey have the pictures also. It was suggested to try using a diluted deterge
nt (two drops on non ammonium based dish soap in gallon of water) to clean
the mating surfaces instead of the rubbing alcohol. Also there may be a nee
d to anneal the acrylic before installing to normalize the internal stresse
s of the plastic. They also said Weld-On 10 was a good choice for gluing ac
rylic to fiberglass.
As for repair they are working on it & I will pass along anything I learn.
Van's did get back with me and here is Scott's reply:
Vern=2C Thanks for the photos. This looks very similar to what we saw on bo
th of our RV-10's. Spoke with the rest of the tech crew here and all input
that we've had is that the crazing does not 'move' significantly after the
weld-on sets up and clamps are removed. scott at van's
Thanks=2C
Vern Smith (#324)
> Date: Thu=2C 11 Sep 2008 12:16:38 -0500> From: Tim@MyRV10.com> To: rv10-
list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing> > --> RV1
0-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>> > You know=2C the com
mon thread I see when people bring up crazing> with window installation is
the use of clamps. I did use some> clamps=2C but not very tight clamps on m
ine....I think I may have> only used those squeeze clamps that you open wit
h your hands.> Either way=2C I didn't use tons of pressure=2C just used the
m to> hold position. I had no crazing.> > I'm starting to wonder if the peo
ple having crazing aren't> maybe using a bit more pressure on their clamps
=2C or perhaps> not spreading the force out enough on the windows.> > I'd s
ay=2C pad the clamps=2C and don't clamp any tighter than> necessary to hold
the window in position. Don't try to> squeeze out excess glue=2C just posi
tion it. I don't> know WHY clamping with pressure would add to the problem
=2C> but I do notice that in almost all cases=2C the person> said it either
crazed where the clamps were=2C or at least> that they had used clamps. I'
m betting this is the cause> somehow.> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying>
> > > Vernon Smith wrote:> > Well folks I'm not a happy camper=2C> > > > J
ust finished installing my windshield with Weld-on 10=2C and there is > > c
razing where some clamps were on the sides=2C photo & details below. So > >
here are my questions:> > > > 1: How common is crazing at the glue joint?>
> > > 1: If left as is will the crazing run across the window?> > > > 2: I
s there anything (other than replacement) that will keep it from > > creepi
ng? The crazing is small and can easily be hidden as long as it > > doesn't
keep creeping.> > > > The fine print: I have installed all the other windo
ws with no problems > > using foam blocks and straps to clamp it in place.
The windshield was > > installed at 80 degrees. Main pressure was from a st
rap & foam blocks > > with additional clamps on sides (the area of the craz
ing.) Only rubbing > > alcohol was used for cleaning. Edges sanded complete
ly smooth with no > > nick or scratches. The gluing surfaces were roughed u
p with 240 grit > > sand paper.> > > > The crazing was noticed 1 1/2 hours
after I started the gluing process. > > At which time I removed the side cl
amps. And called Scott at Van's=2C he > > has requested pictures.> > > > An
y help or suggestion would be appreciated=2C> > > > Vern Smith (#324 finish
ing sort of)> > > > -------------------------------------------------------
-----------------> > See how Windows Mobile brings your life > > togetgo/ms
nnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/' target='_new'>See Now> > ----------------
========================> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live.
http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!5
50F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing |
Ahhhhhh!!!! You used rubbing alcohol!!! That's a definite no-no!
There aren't that many things you can clean it with. Kerosene
is one. There IS one thing that I used that I can't endorse, but
can report on. During painting we used PPG DCX330 degreaser
extensively in prep of things, INCLUDING all the window edges,
and we tested it on the windshield scraps to make sure it wouldn't
craze. So maybe that is an option. But yeah, NO SOLVENTS on
the windshield for cleaning....that's definitely not a good idea.
mild soap and water, maybe...but I'd be careful of anything
else. kerosene obviously wouldn't be good pre-cleaning for
paint....but might not be so bad pre-installation. Also,
I'd leave any plastic on windows as long as possible.
Tim
Vernon Smith wrote:
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> I used the same hand type clamps as shown on your web site during
> install of your window. All clamps were padded with layers of masking
> tape. There is no sign of deflection of the acrylic during or after
> clamping, but maybe hand springe clamps are not the best choice. The
> thought that direct pressure on the Weld-on cause it to set off is an
> interesting idea.
>
> I am in contact with IPS technical service (they manufacture Weld-on)
> and they have the pictures also. It was suggested to try using a diluted
> detergent (two drops on non ammonium based dish soap in gallon of water)
> to clean the mating surfaces instead of the rubbing alcohol. Also there
> may be a need to anneal the acrylic before installing to normalize the
> internal stresses of the plastic. They also said Weld-On 10 was a good
> choice for gluing acrylic to fiberglass.
>
> As for repair they are working on it & I will pass along anything I learn.
>
> Van's did get back with me and here is Scott's reply:
>
> /Vern, Thanks for the photos. This looks very similar to what we saw on
> both of our RV-10's.
> Spoke with the rest of the tech crew here and all input that we've had
> is that the crazing does
> not 'move' significantly after the weld-on sets up and clamps are
> removed. scott at van's/
> //
> //
> /Thanks,/
> //
> /Vern Smith (#324)/
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:16:38 -0500
> > From: Tim@MyRV10.com
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
> >
> >
> > You know, the common thread I see when people bring up crazing
> > with window installation is the use of clamps. I did use some
> > clamps, but not very tight clamps on mine....I think I may have
> > only used those squeeze clamps that you open with your hands.
> > Either way, I didn't use tons of pressure, just used them to
> > hold position. I had no crazing.
> >
> > I'm starting to wonder if the people having crazing aren't
> > maybe using a bit more pressure on their clamps, or perhaps
> > not spreading the force out enough on the windows.
> >
> > I'd say, pad the clamps, and don't clamp any tighter than
> > necessary to hold the window in position. Don't try to
> > squeeze out excess glue, just position it. I don't
> > know WHY clamping with pressure would add to the problem,
> > but I do notice that in almost all cases, the person
> > said it either crazed where the clamps were, or at least
> > that they had used clamps. I'm betting this is the cause
> > somehow.
> >
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> >
> >
> >
> > Vernon Smith wrote:
> > > Well folks I'm not a happy camper,
> > >
> > > Just finished installing my windshield with Weld-on 10, and there is
> > > crazing where some clamps were on the sides, photo & details below. So
> > > here are my questions:
> > >
> > > 1: How common is crazing at the glue joint?
> > >
> > > 1: If left as is will the crazing run across the window?
> > >
> > > 2: Is there anything (other than replacement) that will keep it from
> > > creeping? The crazing is small and can easily be hidden as long as it
> > > doesn't keep creeping.
> > >
> > > The fine print: I have installed all the other windows with no
> problems
> > > using foam blocks and straps to clamp it in place. The windshield was
> > > installed at 80 degrees. Main pressure was from a strap & foam blocks
> > > with additional clamps on sides (the area of the crazing.) Only
> rubbing
> > > alcohol was used for cleaning. Edges sanded completely smooth with no
> > > nick or scratches. The gluing surfaces were roughed up with 240 grit
> > > sand paper.
> > >
> > > The crazing was noticed 1 1/2 hours after I started the gluing
> process.
> > > At which time I removed the side clamps. And called Scott at Van's, he
> > > has requested pictures.
> > >
> > > Any help or suggestion would be appreciated,
> > >
> > > Vern Smith (#324 finishing sort of)
> > >
> > >
Message 17
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| Subject: | Weld-on 10 & crazing |
Mineral spirits are recommended by one of the windscreen companies.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
Ahhhhhh!!!! You used rubbing alcohol!!! That's a definite no-no!
There aren't that many things you can clean it with. Kerosene
is one. There IS one thing that I used that I can't endorse, but
can report on. During painting we used PPG DCX330 degreaser
extensively in prep of things, INCLUDING all the window edges,
and we tested it on the windshield scraps to make sure it wouldn't
craze. So maybe that is an option. But yeah, NO SOLVENTS on
the windshield for cleaning....that's definitely not a good idea.
mild soap and water, maybe...but I'd be careful of anything
else. kerosene obviously wouldn't be good pre-cleaning for
paint....but might not be so bad pre-installation. Also,
I'd leave any plastic on windows as long as possible.
Tim
Vernon Smith wrote:
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> I used the same hand type clamps as shown on your web site during
> install of your window. All clamps were padded with layers of masking
> tape. There is no sign of deflection of the acrylic during or after
> clamping, but maybe hand springe clamps are not the best choice. The
> thought that direct pressure on the Weld-on cause it to set off is an
> interesting idea.
>
> I am in contact with IPS technical service (they manufacture Weld-on)
> and they have the pictures also. It was suggested to try using a diluted
> detergent (two drops on non ammonium based dish soap in gallon of water)
> to clean the mating surfaces instead of the rubbing alcohol. Also there
> may be a need to anneal the acrylic before installing to normalize the
> internal stresses of the plastic. They also said Weld-On 10 was a good
> choice for gluing acrylic to fiberglass.
>
> As for repair they are working on it & I will pass along anything I learn.
>
> Van's did get back with me and here is Scott's reply:
>
> /Vern, Thanks for the photos. This looks very similar to what we saw on
> both of our RV-10's.
> Spoke with the rest of the tech crew here and all input that we've had
> is that the crazing does
> not 'move' significantly after the weld-on sets up and clamps are
> removed. scott at van's/
> //
> //
> /Thanks,/
> //
> /Vern Smith (#324)/
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:16:38 -0500
> > From: Tim@MyRV10.com
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
> >
> >
> > You know, the common thread I see when people bring up crazing
> > with window installation is the use of clamps. I did use some
> > clamps, but not very tight clamps on mine....I think I may have
> > only used those squeeze clamps that you open with your hands.
> > Either way, I didn't use tons of pressure, just used them to
> > hold position. I had no crazing.
> >
> > I'm starting to wonder if the people having crazing aren't
> > maybe using a bit more pressure on their clamps, or perhaps
> > not spreading the force out enough on the windows.
> >
> > I'd say, pad the clamps, and don't clamp any tighter than
> > necessary to hold the window in position. Don't try to
> > squeeze out excess glue, just position it. I don't
> > know WHY clamping with pressure would add to the problem,
> > but I do notice that in almost all cases, the person
> > said it either crazed where the clamps were, or at least
> > that they had used clamps. I'm betting this is the cause
> > somehow.
> >
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> >
> >
> >
> > Vernon Smith wrote:
> > > Well folks I'm not a happy camper,
> > >
> > > Just finished installing my windshield with Weld-on 10, and there is
> > > crazing where some clamps were on the sides, photo & details below. So
> > > here are my questions:
> > >
> > > 1: How common is crazing at the glue joint?
> > >
> > > 1: If left as is will the crazing run across the window?
> > >
> > > 2: Is there anything (other than replacement) that will keep it from
> > > creeping? The crazing is small and can easily be hidden as long as it
> > > doesn't keep creeping.
> > >
> > > The fine print: I have installed all the other windows with no
> problems
> > > using foam blocks and straps to clamp it in place. The windshield was
> > > installed at 80 degrees. Main pressure was from a strap & foam blocks
> > > with additional clamps on sides (the area of the crazing.) Only
> rubbing
> > > alcohol was used for cleaning. Edges sanded completely smooth with no
> > > nick or scratches. The gluing surfaces were roughed up with 240 grit
> > > sand paper.
> > >
> > > The crazing was noticed 1 1/2 hours after I started the gluing
> process.
> > > At which time I removed the side clamps. And called Scott at Van's, he
> > > has requested pictures.
> > >
> > > Any help or suggestion would be appreciated,
> > >
> > > Vern Smith (#324 finishing sort of)
> > >
> > >
Message 18
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| Subject: | Weld-on 10 & crazing |
I work with acrylics every day in my job as an engineer in the medical
device industry. Acrylics in general can stand stress, or exposure to
alcohol (or other solvents) but not at the same time. They, like many
plastics, are subject to a phenomenom known as "stress cracking", which
starts as crazing. It is caused by the material having stress (either
molded in or induced by a load, such as a clamp) while being exposed to a
chemical, and the result is a crack at a stress far lower than would
normally cause a crack to start.
The good news is that once the solvent and/or the stress is removed, the
crazing stops and is not likely to spread, so if the crazing doesn't show,
you probably won't have to replace the windshield.
Jack Phillips
#40610
Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
Ahhhhhh!!!! You used rubbing alcohol!!! That's a definite no-no!
There aren't that many things you can clean it with. Kerosene
is one. There IS one thing that I used that I can't endorse, but
can report on. During painting we used PPG DCX330 degreaser
extensively in prep of things, INCLUDING all the window edges,
and we tested it on the windshield scraps to make sure it wouldn't
craze. So maybe that is an option. But yeah, NO SOLVENTS on
the windshield for cleaning....that's definitely not a good idea.
mild soap and water, maybe...but I'd be careful of anything
else. kerosene obviously wouldn't be good pre-cleaning for
paint....but might not be so bad pre-installation. Also,
I'd leave any plastic on windows as long as possible.
Tim
Vernon Smith wrote:
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> I used the same hand type clamps as shown on your web site during
> install of your window. All clamps were padded with layers of masking
> tape. There is no sign of deflection of the acrylic during or after
> clamping, but maybe hand springe clamps are not the best choice. The
> thought that direct pressure on the Weld-on cause it to set off is an
> interesting idea.
>
> I am in contact with IPS technical service (they manufacture Weld-on)
> and they have the pictures also. It was suggested to try using a diluted
> detergent (two drops on non ammonium based dish soap in gallon of water)
> to clean the mating surfaces instead of the rubbing alcohol. Also there
> may be a need to anneal the acrylic before installing to normalize the
> internal stresses of the plastic. They also said Weld-On 10 was a good
> choice for gluing acrylic to fiberglass.
>
> As for repair they are working on it & I will pass along anything I learn.
>
> Van's did get back with me and here is Scott's reply:
>
> /Vern, Thanks for the photos. This looks very similar to what we saw on
> both of our RV-10's.
> Spoke with the rest of the tech crew here and all input that we've had
> is that the crazing does
> not 'move' significantly after the weld-on sets up and clamps are
> removed. scott at van's/
> //
> //
> /Thanks,/
> //
> /Vern Smith (#324)/
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:16:38 -0500
> > From: Tim@MyRV10.com
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
> >
> >
> > You know, the common thread I see when people bring up crazing
> > with window installation is the use of clamps. I did use some
> > clamps, but not very tight clamps on mine....I think I may have
> > only used those squeeze clamps that you open with your hands.
> > Either way, I didn't use tons of pressure, just used them to
> > hold position. I had no crazing.
> >
> > I'm starting to wonder if the people having crazing aren't
> > maybe using a bit more pressure on their clamps, or perhaps
> > not spreading the force out enough on the windows.
> >
> > I'd say, pad the clamps, and don't clamp any tighter than
> > necessary to hold the window in position. Don't try to
> > squeeze out excess glue, just position it. I don't
> > know WHY clamping with pressure would add to the problem,
> > but I do notice that in almost all cases, the person
> > said it either crazed where the clamps were, or at least
> > that they had used clamps. I'm betting this is the cause
> > somehow.
> >
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> >
> >
> >
> > Vernon Smith wrote:
> > > Well folks I'm not a happy camper,
> > >
> > > Just finished installing my windshield with Weld-on 10, and there is
> > > crazing where some clamps were on the sides, photo & details below.
So
> > > here are my questions:
> > >
> > > 1: How common is crazing at the glue joint?
> > >
> > > 1: If left as is will the crazing run across the window?
> > >
> > > 2: Is there anything (other than replacement) that will keep it from
> > > creeping? The crazing is small and can easily be hidden as long as it
> > > doesn't keep creeping.
> > >
> > > The fine print: I have installed all the other windows with no
> problems
> > > using foam blocks and straps to clamp it in place. The windshield was
> > > installed at 80 degrees. Main pressure was from a strap & foam blocks
> > > with additional clamps on sides (the area of the crazing.) Only
> rubbing
> > > alcohol was used for cleaning. Edges sanded completely smooth with no
> > > nick or scratches. The gluing surfaces were roughed up with 240 grit
> > > sand paper.
> > >
> > > The crazing was noticed 1 1/2 hours after I started the gluing
> process.
> > > At which time I removed the side clamps. And called Scott at Van's,
he
> > > has requested pictures.
> > >
> > > Any help or suggestion would be appreciated,
> > >
> > > Vern Smith (#324 finishing sort of)
> > >
> > >
Message 19
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| Subject: | Weld-on 10 & crazing |
I knew acetone was out and now nix the rubbing alcohol. Though rubbing alco
hol was OK because it is recommended by Lancair. But they don't use Weld-On
.
At least 4 out of the 5 windows turned out. Oh well it's only time and mone
y.
Rene=2C Tim=2C Dave and Michael thanks for the feedback.
Vern
do not archive
> Date: Thu=2C 11 Sep 2008 15:29:06 -0500
> From: Tim@MyRV10.com
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
>
>
> Ahhhhhh!!!! You used rubbing alcohol!!! That's a definite no-no!
> There aren't that many things you can clean it with. Kerosene
> is one.
_________________________________________________________________
See how Windows Mobile brings your life together=97at home=2C work=2C or on
the go.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Weld-on 10 & crazin |
I've used a lot of 90% isopropyl alcohol on plexi, to cleanup excess
PRC used to seal windows on my Mooney, per factory recommendations.
Plexi held by screws&nuts squeezing clamps. No problems at all 5 years
and counting. But I don't think the PRC generates much heat as it
cures.
On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Vernon Smith <planesmith@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I knew acetone was out and now nix the rubbing alcohol. Though rubbing
> alcohol was OK because it is recommended by Lancair. But they don't use
> Weld-On.
>
> At least 4 out of the 5 windows turned out. Oh well it's only time and
> money.
>
> Rene, Tim, Dave and Michael thanks for the feedback.
>
> Vern
> do not archive
>
>> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:29:06 -0500
>> From: Tim@MyRV10.com
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
>>
>>
>> Ahhhhhh!!!! You used rubbing alcohol!!! That's a definite no-no!
>> There aren't that many things you can clean it with. Kerosene
>> is one.
>
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Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing |
Are we talking industrial grade (Lowes) Isopropol alcohol or rubbing alcohol? If
there was a solvent that was the least invasive, least etching, least anything
in so far as damaging polystyrene/acrylic products it's Isopropol alcohol.
Kerosene or JP-4/8 is a petrol based solvent, "diesel fuel" that has an oil content.
How could kerosene be used to degrease and make ready for an adhesive
when it leaves an obvious oil film/residue behind?
Also consider the finish on the edge of your plastic. I used a series of polishing
grits to make the edge of the transparencies almost as optically clear as
the rest of the material..My thinking was if you leave microscopic lines in the
edge of the material and your using an expansive (and under pressure), thermic,
chemical bond, why leave the adhesive an entry point to work on the lateral
surface where the surface tension of the area has already been weakened/relieved
by scuffing it for a better bond.
I really think that if you don't polish the edges just like the aluminum, apply
pressure and an adhesive that attacks the material to create the "weld-on" joint,
any small void will crack or "craze" just like a stress riser but on a smaller
scale, hence the "crazing" FWIW yes the crazing stops, becasue the adhesive
has entered the void and has cured. The microcracks have been formed and rejoined
with the curing of the weld-on.
This all just Bu#$ $h*T...I barely passed chemistry, (don't ask but rememeber my
explosive safety background) I ace'd physics/trig and geometry, that made sense
and hated anything else that wasn't represented by material evidence...but
it sounds good huh?
Prove me wrong... :)
Rick Sked
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 7:16:33 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
I work with acrylics every day in my job as an engineer in the medical
device industry. Acrylics in general can stand stress, or exposure to
alcohol (or other solvents) but not at the same time. They, like many
plastics, are subject to a phenomenom known as "stress cracking", which
starts as crazing. It is caused by the material having stress (either
molded in or induced by a load, such as a clamp) while being exposed to a
chemical, and the result is a crack at a stress far lower than would
normally cause a crack to start.
The good news is that once the solvent and/or the stress is removed, the
crazing stops and is not likely to spread, so if the crazing doesn't show,
you probably won't have to replace the windshield.
Jack Phillips
#40610
Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
Ahhhhhh!!!! You used rubbing alcohol!!! That's a definite no-no!
There aren't that many things you can clean it with. Kerosene
is one. There IS one thing that I used that I can't endorse, but
can report on. During painting we used PPG DCX330 degreaser
extensively in prep of things, INCLUDING all the window edges,
and we tested it on the windshield scraps to make sure it wouldn't
craze. So maybe that is an option. But yeah, NO SOLVENTS on
the windshield for cleaning....that's definitely not a good idea.
mild soap and water, maybe...but I'd be careful of anything
else. kerosene obviously wouldn't be good pre-cleaning for
paint....but might not be so bad pre-installation. Also,
I'd leave any plastic on windows as long as possible.
Tim
Vernon Smith wrote:
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> I used the same hand type clamps as shown on your web site during
> install of your window. All clamps were padded with layers of masking
> tape. There is no sign of deflection of the acrylic during or after
> clamping, but maybe hand springe clamps are not the best choice. The
> thought that direct pressure on the Weld-on cause it to set off is an
> interesting idea.
>
> I am in contact with IPS technical service (they manufacture Weld-on)
> and they have the pictures also. It was suggested to try using a diluted
> detergent (two drops on non ammonium based dish soap in gallon of water)
> to clean the mating surfaces instead of the rubbing alcohol. Also there
> may be a need to anneal the acrylic before installing to normalize the
> internal stresses of the plastic. They also said Weld-On 10 was a good
> choice for gluing acrylic to fiberglass.
>
> As for repair they are working on it & I will pass along anything I learn.
>
> Van's did get back with me and here is Scott's reply:
>
> /Vern, Thanks for the photos. This looks very similar to what we saw on
> both of our RV-10's.
> Spoke with the rest of the tech crew here and all input that we've had
> is that the crazing does
> not 'move' significantly after the weld-on sets up and clamps are
> removed. scott at van's/
> //
> //
> /Thanks,/
> //
> /Vern Smith (#324)/
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:16:38 -0500
> > From: Tim@MyRV10.com
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
> >
> >
> > You know, the common thread I see when people bring up crazing
> > with window installation is the use of clamps. I did use some
> > clamps, but not very tight clamps on mine....I think I may have
> > only used those squeeze clamps that you open with your hands.
> > Either way, I didn't use tons of pressure, just used them to
> > hold position. I had no crazing.
> >
> > I'm starting to wonder if the people having crazing aren't
> > maybe using a bit more pressure on their clamps, or perhaps
> > not spreading the force out enough on the windows.
> >
> > I'd say, pad the clamps, and don't clamp any tighter than
> > necessary to hold the window in position. Don't try to
> > squeeze out excess glue, just position it. I don't
> > know WHY clamping with pressure would add to the problem,
> > but I do notice that in almost all cases, the person
> > said it either crazed where the clamps were, or at least
> > that they had used clamps. I'm betting this is the cause
> > somehow.
> >
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> >
> >
> >
> > Vernon Smith wrote:
> > > Well folks I'm not a happy camper,
> > >
> > > Just finished installing my windshield with Weld-on 10, and there is
> > > crazing where some clamps were on the sides, photo & details below.
So
> > > here are my questions:
> > >
> > > 1: How common is crazing at the glue joint?
> > >
> > > 1: If left as is will the crazing run across the window?
> > >
> > > 2: Is there anything (other than replacement) that will keep it from
> > > creeping? The crazing is small and can easily be hidden as long as it
> > > doesn't keep creeping.
> > >
> > > The fine print: I have installed all the other windows with no
> problems
> > > using foam blocks and straps to clamp it in place. The windshield was
> > > installed at 80 degrees. Main pressure was from a strap & foam blocks
> > > with additional clamps on sides (the area of the crazing.) Only
> rubbing
> > > alcohol was used for cleaning. Edges sanded completely smooth with no
> > > nick or scratches. The gluing surfaces were roughed up with 240 grit
> > > sand paper.
> > >
> > > The crazing was noticed 1 1/2 hours after I started the gluing
> process.
> > > At which time I removed the side clamps. And called Scott at Van's,
he
> > > has requested pictures.
> > >
> > > Any help or suggestion would be appreciated,
> > >
> > > Vern Smith (#324 finishing sort of)
> > >
> > >
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