Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:40 AM - Firewall penetrations - electrical (AirMike)
2. 07:03 AM - Re: Re: Door Seals - Again (Tim Lewis)
3. 07:54 AM - Re: Firewall penetrations - electrical (John Ackerman)
4. 09:03 AM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (James, Peter [SD])
5. 09:26 AM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (John Cox)
6. 09:40 AM - Re: Firewall penetrations - electrical (Wndwlkr1228@AOL.COM)
7. 10:24 AM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (DLIUDVINAITIS@AOL.COM)
8. 11:24 AM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (gary)
9. 11:52 AM - Re: Seat Belt support Bracket (Marcus Cooper)
10. 11:57 AM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (Dave Leikam)
11. 02:26 PM - Re: Firewall penetrations - electrical (dmaib@mac.com)
12. 02:51 PM - FAA Proposed Rule Changes (Jack Sparling)
13. 03:18 PM - Re: Seat Belt support Bracket (Rick Sked)
14. 04:57 PM - Re: RV-List: FAA Proposed Rule Changes (Ralph Finch)
15. 05:04 PM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (Tim Olson)
16. 05:29 PM - Re: Seat Belt support Bracket (Don McDonald)
17. 05:35 PM - Re: Seat Belt support Bracket (Don McDonald)
18. 06:55 PM - Speed test today (Rene)
19. 07:27 PM - Re: Speed test today (Tim Olson)
20. 08:02 PM - Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing (Vernon Smith)
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| Subject: | Firewall penetrations - electrical |
I see where some of the already built 10's have a really cool "firesleeve" that
wires go through on the firewall. It looks like a tube with a flange on the bottom.
The flange attaches to the firewall. The tube allows an excellent air and
fire seal.
Where do I get these???
--------
OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4213#204213
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Door Seals - Again |
I found that when I installed the Vans seals per the illustration (Page
45-17, figure 2) the door fit was negatively impacted by the seal. Both
doors now stuck up above the cabin lid. I ripped out the seals and
replaced them with new Van's seals, but this time I placed the seal so
that the lower edge of the seal flange fit snugly against the door wall
(all the way down, in figure 2). During cure, the Van's seals were held
in place with pieces of mixing stick (reduced in width). This worked
much better.
Photos attached.
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 1000 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
McGANN, Ron wrote:
>
> The Vans standard door seal is glued in place rather than rivetted. My
> doors sat a little proud after installation of the seal. I'm with
> Michael S. - I did not report the condition to Vans and just worked the
> cabin top/door intersection to smooth the fit. Just another issue with
> the (less than fun) construction of the doors. I have also noticed that
> I have contacted Vans on build issues much less frequently during the
> finishing activities, deferring to the collective experience of the
> list. But I am surprised that Van does not recognise the weaknesses in
> the door design compared to the rest of the kit.
>
> Cheers
> Ron
> 187 painting
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 September 2008 7:23 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Door Seals - Again
>
>
> I saw quite a few different seals at OSH. From what I can gather, Vans
> is not the preferred seal. Thoug with those owners that have installed
> the Van's seal the seal seems to be working well and there is little
> complaint on noise or air intrusion. One big complaint aside from the
> lack of nice appearance is that you have to use pop rivets, and if you
> need to change the seal (drill out the pop rivets), you will have the
> rivet ends rattling around inside the door.
>
> I did see seals from AIRCRAFT DOOR SEAL LLC called the "Incredible
> Aircraft door seal" see aircraftdoorseals.com
>
> He did give me a sample, but I did not get any feedback from those who
> have installed it. any feedback on this product is appreciated.
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09 Q/B Kit - exited cabin
> top/door purgatory
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2189#202189
>
>
> "Warning:
> The information contained in this email and any attached files is
> confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
> attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
> in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
> taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
> however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
> sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall penetrations - electrical |
I got mine a year or so ago from:
EPM.AV Corp
www.epm-avcorp.com
195 N. 700W.
Escalante, Utah 84726
(435)826-4601
The URL did not work for me today - you may want to try the phone ...
John 40458
On Sep 14, 2008, at 4:39 AM, AirMike wrote:
>
> I see where some of the already built 10's have a really cool
> "firesleeve" that wires go through on the firewall. It looks like a
> tube with a flange on the bottom. The flange attaches to the
> firewall. The tube allows an excellent air and fire seal.
>
> Where do I get these???
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
> Q/B Kit - exited cabin top/door purgatory
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4213#204213
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing |
Hello fellow -10r's,
I think there has been way too much made of gluing in windows, crazing, alt
ernative glues, etc. I was scared to death to do mine after all the posts.
It was a learning process, but didn't go nearly as bad as I expected ....
. So here is what I did - take it or leave it:
True: Weld-on is some of the gooiest stuff I have ever worked with...worse
than pro-seal. The big problem is that it likes to 'string'...and it gets
everywhere...just like pro-seal, it can jump 10 feet
Put the window where you want it. Drill holes and cleco and fender washer
the window in place. This does NOT put a lot of pressure on the window.
It DOES allow the window to spring out to the exact shape of the canopy. T
his is a GOOD thing.
Draw a line with one of your kids Crayola washable markers (fine line) on t
he inside.
Take the window out. Use Black electrical tape to seal the window up to th
e Crayola marker line. Get the seal nice and smooth and nice and tight to
the line.
Then come back over the electrical tape with BLUE tape. It doesn't have to
get right to the edge of the electrical tape, but pretty close. I might e
ven consider a second layer of blue tape. Do the same thing on the outside
of the window...right out to the edge. IMPORTANT: Also blue tape a coupl
e of layers on the outside of the fuselage around the window well. This wi
ll be important to keep the Weld-on off the fuselage as you glue the window
s in. YES - blue tape is expensive - but don't scrimp here. Get a 2 or 3"
wide band of tape around the wells.
Sand the inside flange with sandpaper - clean with ISOPROPYL alcohol from t
he DRUG STORE - get the purest stuff they have. Remember not to leave it o
pen as I it will absorb moisture from the air. I'm not sure that it matter
s in this case, but I like the stuff to be as potent as possible for future
uses.
To glue in the window have 2 buddies over to help! One will be inside the
plane, the other on the outside.
Smear the mixed Weld-on 10 on the flange. Mine was somewhat runny.... It w
ill try and run on you. MOVE FAST!!! Mine set in FAR less than the 20 min
ute pot-life it is supposed to have.
Gently set the window in place. DO NOT PRESS IT IN! If you do, the glue w
ill squeeze out when you press in, the window will then 'spring' back to th
e cleco and fender washers - leaving a big air pocket where the glue squeez
ed out. Some of this is just plain going to happen. I will talk about tha
t later. Have Buddy number 2 start clecoing and fender washering the windo
w. Hit the four corners, and a few other places, then grab pliers, clecos,
and washers and get them in. Don't delay. You want time to clean up and
work with this stuff before it sets.
The glue is going to be a mess! Have blue shop towels and a couple of plas
tic resin spreaders handy. I took a couple spreaders to my band saw and cu
t a couple of varying widths.. These are plastic and won't scratch the win
dow. The also are stiff enough to scrape the excess glue off. Buddy numbe
r 1 will be inside, scraping any excess off as it squeezes out. If you don
't have someone inside, this stuff will drip on you fuselage interior and w
on't be easy to clean up or sand off later.
If you did a good job of taping, you will be scraping the extra glue off th
e BLUE TAPE - inside and out. Keep in mind, on the outside, you will have
to scrape around the clecos and fender washers. Get the bulk off quickly.
Next - again, moving very fast - pull the first layer of blue tape off. Th
is will get the bulk of extra glue off and away from the plane. Have a big
waste basket or paper bag nearby...because just like pro-seal - this stuff
can jump 10 feet and get on anything and everything. On the outside of th
e plane, you will have your extra buddy pull a cleco - you pull the tape pa
st the hole, then have him put the cleco right back in. It should now be s
etting on the second layer of tape, or the electrical tape.
Go all the way around the windows, cleaning, peeling a layer of tape, clean
ing, peeling a layer of tape. By the time you are done, the glue will be V
ERY solid. It won't be impossible to get off, but it won't be easy. I the
n used a metal square tip knife, to get the final remnants off the window o
n the inside and outside of the fuselage.
By using clecos and fender washers, the clamp force is regulated or elimina
ted if the window has sprung up to 'meet' the fender washer. I did not get
ANY crazing at all...not even one place. My result was not perfect. I le
arned the lesson of pushing the window in too far, having it spring back, a
nd leave a big air pocket the hard way on the first window. I later came b
ack with a tiny drill....used a light and drilled two holes, then used a sy
ringe with no needle to fill the sir pockets with weld-on. (I have extra w
eld-on since I had some that had expired and I ordered fresh for the main p
rocess.)
The cleco holes are now filled with epoxy and the high strength West System
s Adhesive filler. You will never know that there was a hole there.
My results are not perfect, but they are not bad. The real key is to move
fast. We did this on a warm summer evening...and the Weld-on went to set i
n a real hurry.
These are my experiences - you can use them - laugh at them - or ignore the
m. I just know that it worked pretty well for my building team. I'd be ha
ppy to answer any questions as this one of the most intimidating steps in t
he whole kit.
Pete #40100 - plan to have it Osh next year.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Weld-on 10 & crazing |
Congrats on your success. Looking forward to seeing it at OSH '09.
John Cox
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James, Peter
[SD]
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
Hello fellow -10r's,
I think there has been way too much made of gluing in windows, crazing,
alternative glues, etc. I was scared to death to do mine after all the
posts. It was a learning process, but didn't go nearly as bad as I
expected ..... So here is what I did - take it or leave it:
True: Weld-on is some of the gooiest stuff I have ever worked
with...worse than pro-seal. The big problem is that it likes to
'string'...and it gets everywhere...just like pro-seal, it can jump 10
feet
Put the window where you want it. Drill holes and cleco and fender
washer the window in place. This does NOT put a lot of pressure on the
window. It DOES allow the window to spring out to the exact shape of
the canopy. This is a GOOD thing.
Draw a line with one of your kids Crayola washable markers (fine line)
on the inside.
Take the window out. Use Black electrical tape to seal the window up to
the Crayola marker line. Get the seal nice and smooth and nice and
tight to the line.
Then come back over the electrical tape with BLUE tape. It doesn't have
to get right to the edge of the electrical tape, but pretty close. I
might even consider a second layer of blue tape. Do the same thing on
the outside of the window...right out to the edge. IMPORTANT: Also
blue tape a couple of layers on the outside of the fuselage around the
window well. This will be important to keep the Weld-on off the
fuselage as you glue the windows in. YES - blue tape is expensive - but
don't scrimp here. Get a 2 or 3" wide band of tape around the wells.
Sand the inside flange with sandpaper - clean with ISOPROPYL alcohol
from the DRUG STORE - get the purest stuff they have. Remember not to
leave it open as I it will absorb moisture from the air. I'm not sure
that it matters in this case, but I like the stuff to be as potent as
possible for future uses.
To glue in the window have 2 buddies over to help! One will be inside
the plane, the other on the outside.
Smear the mixed Weld-on 10 on the flange. Mine was somewhat runny....
It will try and run on you. MOVE FAST!!! Mine set in FAR less than the
20 minute pot-life it is supposed to have.
Gently set the window in place. DO NOT PRESS IT IN! If you do, the
glue will squeeze out when you press in, the window will then 'spring'
back to the cleco and fender washers - leaving a big air pocket where
the glue squeezed out. Some of this is just plain going to happen. I
will talk about that later. Have Buddy number 2 start clecoing and
fender washering the window. Hit the four corners, and a few other
places, then grab pliers, clecos, and washers and get them in. Don't
delay. You want time to clean up and work with this stuff before it
sets.
The glue is going to be a mess! Have blue shop towels and a couple of
plastic resin spreaders handy. I took a couple spreaders to my band saw
and cut a couple of varying widths.. These are plastic and won't
scratch the window. The also are stiff enough to scrape the excess glue
off. Buddy number 1 will be inside, scraping any excess off as it
squeezes out. If you don't have someone inside, this stuff will drip on
you fuselage interior and won't be easy to clean up or sand off later.
If you did a good job of taping, you will be scraping the extra glue off
the BLUE TAPE - inside and out. Keep in mind, on the outside, you will
have to scrape around the clecos and fender washers. Get the bulk off
quickly.
Next - again, moving very fast - pull the first layer of blue tape off.
This will get the bulk of extra glue off and away from the plane. Have
a big waste basket or paper bag nearby...because just like pro-seal -
this stuff can jump 10 feet and get on anything and everything. On the
outside of the plane, you will have your extra buddy pull a cleco - you
pull the tape past the hole, then have him put the cleco right back in.
It should now be setting on the second layer of tape, or the electrical
tape.
Go all the way around the windows, cleaning, peeling a layer of tape,
cleaning, peeling a layer of tape. By the time you are done, the glue
will be VERY solid. It won't be impossible to get off, but it won't be
easy. I then used a metal square tip knife, to get the final remnants
off the window on the inside and outside of the fuselage.
By using clecos and fender washers, the clamp force is regulated or
eliminated if the window has sprung up to 'meet' the fender washer. I
did not get ANY crazing at all...not even one place. My result was not
perfect. I learned the lesson of pushing the window in too far, having
it spring back, and leave a big air pocket the hard way on the first
window. I later came back with a tiny drill....used a light and drilled
two holes, then used a syringe with no needle to fill the sir pockets
with weld-on. (I have extra weld-on since I had some that had expired
and I ordered fresh for the main process.)
The cleco holes are now filled with epoxy and the high strength West
Systems Adhesive filler. You will never know that there was a hole
there.
My results are not perfect, but they are not bad. The real key is to
move fast. We did this on a warm summer evening...and the Weld-on went
to set in a real hurry.
These are my experiences - you can use them - laugh at them - or ignore
them. I just know that it worked pretty well for my building team. I'd
be happy to answer any questions as this one of the most intimidating
steps in the whole kit.
Pete #40100 - plan to have it Osh next year.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall penetrations - electrical |
A search on AOL.com resulted in a notice that the President of EPM-AV corp
was out and the business was closed.
However, Aircraft Spruce sell three sizes of the firewall penetration
sleeves. SafeAir1 also sells a kit.
In a message dated 9/14/2008 7:59:18 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
johnag5b@cableone.net writes:
EPM.AV Corp
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing |
HEY PETE,
SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAD VERY GOOD EXIPERENCE, MAY BE YOU CAN LET US KNOW
WHAT CLEANER OR PREPING YOU USED BEFORE INSTALLING YOUR WINDOWS? I'M REAL C
LOSE
TO INSTALLING MY WINDOWS. THANKS
DAVE LUDD
NJ #40466
In a message dated 9/14/2008 11:04:45 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
Peter.James@sprint.com writes:
Hello fellow -10r=99s,
I think there has been way too much made of gluing in windows, crazing,
alternative glues, etc. I was scared to death to do mine after all the pos
ts.
It was a learning process, but didn=99t go nearly as bad as I expecte
d .. So
here is what I did =93 take it or leave it:
True: Weld-on is some of the gooiest stuff I have ever worked with
worse
than pro-seal. The big problem is that it likes to =98string
=99and it gets
everywherejust like pro-seal, it can jump 10 feet
Put the window where you want it. Drill holes and cleco and fender washer
the window in place. This does NOT put a lot of pressure on the window. I
t
DOES allow the window to spring out to the exact shape of the canopy. This
is a GOOD thing.
Draw a line with one of your kids Crayola washable markers (fine line) on
the inside.
Take the window out. Use Black electrical tape to seal the window up to th
e
Crayola marker line. Get the seal nice and smooth and nice and tight to th
e
line.
Then come back over the electrical tape with BLUE tape. It doesn=99t
have to
get right to the edge of the electrical tape, but pretty close. I might ev
en
consider a second layer of blue tape. Do the same thing on the outside of
the windowright out to the edge. IMPORTANT: Also blue tape a cou
ple of
layers on the outside of the fuselage around the window well. This will be
important to keep the Weld-on off the fuselage as you glue the windows in.
YES =93
blue tape is expensive =93 but don=99t scrimp here. Get a 2 or
3=9D wide band of
tape around the wells.
Sand the inside flange with sandpaper =93 clean with ISOPROPYL alcoho
l from
the DRUG STORE =93 get the purest stuff they have. Remember not to l
eave it open
as I it will absorb moisture from the air. I=99m not sure that it ma
tters in
this case, but I like the stuff to be as potent as possible for future use
s.
To glue in the window have 2 buddies over to help! One will be inside the
plane, the other on the outside.
Smear the mixed Weld-on 10 on the flange. Mine was somewhat runny
. It will
try and run on you. MOVE FAST!!! Mine set in FAR less than the 20 minute
pot-life it is supposed to have.
Gently set the window in place. DO NOT PRESS IT IN! If you do, the glue
will squeeze out when you press in, the window will then =98spring
=99 back to the
cleco and fender washers =93 leaving a big air pocket where the glue
squeezed
out. Some of this is just plain going to happen. I will talk about that
later. Have Buddy number 2 start clecoing and fender washering the window.
Hit
the four corners, and a few other places, then grab pliers, clecos, and
washers and get them in. Don=99t delay. You want time to clean up a
nd work with
this stuff before it sets.
The glue is going to be a mess! Have blue shop towels and a couple of
plastic resin spreaders handy. I took a couple spreaders to my band saw an
d cut a
couple of varying widths.. These are plastic and won=99t scratch the
window.
The also are stiff enough to scrape the excess glue off. Buddy number 1
will be inside, scraping any excess off as it squeezes out. If you don
=99t have
someone inside, this stuff will drip on you fuselage interior and won
=99t be
easy to clean up or sand off later.
If you did a good job of taping, you will be scraping the extra glue off th
e
BLUE TAPE =93 inside and out. Keep in mind, on the outside, you will
have to
scrape around the clecos and fender washers. Get the bulk off quickly.
Next =93 again, moving very fast =93 pull the first layer of bl
ue tape off.
This will get the bulk of extra glue off and away from the plane. Have a b
ig
waste basket or paper bag nearbybecause just like pro-seal
=93 this stuff can
jump 10 feet and get on anything and everything. On the outside of the
plane, you will have your extra buddy pull a cleco =93 you pull the t
ape past the
hole, then have him put the cleco right back in. It should now be setting
on
the second layer of tape, or the electrical tape.
Go all the way around the windows, cleaning, peeling a layer of tape,
cleaning, peeling a layer of tape. By the time you are done, the glue will
be VERY
solid. It won=99t be impossible to get off, but it won=99t be
easy. I then
used a metal square tip knife, to get the final remnants off the window on
the
inside and outside of the fuselage.
By using clecos and fender washers, the clamp force is regulated or
eliminated if the window has sprung up to =98meet=99 the fender
washer. I did not get
ANY crazing at allnot even one place. My result was not perfect.
I learned
the lesson of pushing the window in too far, having it spring back, and lea
ve
a big air pocket the hard way on the first window. I later came back with
a
tiny drill.used a light and drilled two holes, then used a syringe
with no
needle to fill the sir pockets with weld-on. (I have extra weld-on since I
had some that had expired and I ordered fresh for the main process.)
The cleco holes are now filled with epoxy and the high strength West System
s
Adhesive filler. You will never know that there was a hole there.
My results are not perfect, but they are not bad. The real key is to move
fast. We did this on a warm summer eveningand the Weld-on went to
set in a
real hurry.
These are my experiences =93 you can use them =93 laugh at them
=93 or ignore
them. I just know that it worked pretty well for my building team. I
=99d be
happy to answer any questions as this one of the most intimidating steps in
the
whole kit.
Pete #40100 =93 plan to have it Osh next year.
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Weld-on 10 & crazing |
IMHO you do not want to clean your windows prior to install. Leave the
protective film on all but the working edge and prep only the working edge.
If you clean the whole window you risk contaminating the edge with things
that reduce the adhesion. I would think this is true no matter if you use
weld-on, epoxy sikaflex or what ever. Most cleaners leave behind some
residue, and I never wanted to chance that it would effect the bond.
Gary Specketer
40274 Flying
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DLIUDVINAITIS@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
HEY PETE,
SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAD VERY GOOD EXIPERENCE, MAY BE YOU CAN LET US KNOW
WHAT CLEANER OR PREPING YOU USED BEFORE INSTALLING YOUR WINDOWS? I'M REAL
CLOSE TO INSTALLING MY WINDOWS. THANKS
DAVE LUDD
NJ #40466
In a message dated 9/14/2008 11:04:45 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
Peter.James@sprint.com writes:
Hello fellow -10r's,
I think there has been way too much made of gluing in windows, crazing,
alternative glues, etc. I was scared to death to do mine after all the
posts. It was a learning process, but didn't go nearly as bad as I expected
... So here is what I did - take it or leave it:
True: Weld-on is some of the gooiest stuff I have ever worked with.worse
than pro-seal. The big problem is that it likes to 'string'.and it gets
everywhere.just like pro-seal, it can jump 10 feet
Put the window where you want it. Drill holes and cleco and fender washer
the window in place. This does NOT put a lot of pressure on the window. It
DOES allow the window to spring out to the exact shape of the canopy. This
is a GOOD thing.
Draw a line with one of your kids Crayola washable markers (fine line) on
the inside.
Take the window out. Use Black electrical tape to seal the window up to the
Crayola marker line. Get the seal nice and smooth and nice and tight to the
line.
Then come back over the electrical tape with BLUE tape. It doesn't have to
get right to the edge of the electrical tape, but pretty close. I might
even consider a second layer of blue tape. Do the same thing on the outside
of the window.right out to the edge. IMPORTANT: Also blue tape a couple of
layers on the outside of the fuselage around the window well. This will be
important to keep the Weld-on off the fuselage as you glue the windows in.
YES - blue tape is expensive - but don't scrimp here. Get a 2 or 3" wide
band of tape around the wells.
Sand the inside flange with sandpaper - clean with ISOPROPYL alcohol from
the DRUG STORE - get the purest stuff they have. Remember not to leave it
open as I it will absorb moisture from the air. I'm not sure that it
matters in this case, but I like the stuff to be as potent as possible for
future uses.
To glue in the window have 2 buddies over to help! One will be inside the
plane, the other on the outside.
Smear the mixed Weld-on 10 on the flange. Mine was somewhat runny.. It will
try and run on you. MOVE FAST!!! Mine set in FAR less than the 20 minute
pot-life it is supposed to have.
Gently set the window in place. DO NOT PRESS IT IN! If you do, the glue
will squeeze out when you press in, the window will then 'spring' back to
the cleco and fender washers - leaving a big air pocket where the glue
squeezed out. Some of this is just plain going to happen. I will talk
about that later. Have Buddy number 2 start clecoing and fender washering
the window. Hit the four corners, and a few other places, then grab pliers,
clecos, and washers and get them in. Don't delay. You want time to clean
up and work with this stuff before it sets.
The glue is going to be a mess! Have blue shop towels and a couple of
plastic resin spreaders handy. I took a couple spreaders to my band saw and
cut a couple of varying widths.. These are plastic and won't scratch the
window. The also are stiff enough to scrape the excess glue off. Buddy
number 1 will be inside, scraping any excess off as it squeezes out. If you
don't have someone inside, this stuff will drip on you fuselage interior and
won't be easy to clean up or sand off later.
If you did a good job of taping, you will be scraping the extra glue off the
BLUE TAPE - inside and out. Keep in mind, on the outside, you will have to
scrape around the clecos and fender washers. Get the bulk off quickly.
Next - again, moving very fast - pull the first layer of blue tape off.
This will get the bulk of extra glue off and away from the plane. Have a
big waste basket or paper bag nearby.because just like pro-seal - this stuff
can jump 10 feet and get on anything and everything. On the outside of the
plane, you will have your extra buddy pull a cleco - you pull the tape past
the hole, then have him put the cleco right back in. It should now be
setting on the second layer of tape, or the electrical tape.
Go all the way around the windows, cleaning, peeling a layer of tape,
cleaning, peeling a layer of tape. By the time you are done, the glue will
be VERY solid. It won't be impossible to get off, but it won't be easy. I
then used a metal square tip knife, to get the final remnants off the window
on the inside and outside of the fuselage.
By using clecos and fender washers, the clamp force is regulated or
eliminated if the window has sprung up to 'meet' the fender washer. I did
not get ANY crazing at all.not even one place. My result was not perfect.
I learned the lesson of pushing the window in too far, having it spring
back, and leave a big air pocket the hard way on the first window. I later
came back with a tiny drill..used a light and drilled two holes, then used a
syringe with no needle to fill the sir pockets with weld-on. (I have extra
weld-on since I had some that had expired and I ordered fresh for the main
process.)
The cleco holes are now filled with epoxy and the high strength West Systems
Adhesive filler. You will never know that there was a hole there.
My results are not perfect, but they are not bad. The real key is to move
fast. We did this on a warm summer evening.and the Weld-on went to set in a
real hurry.
These are my experiences - you can use them - laugh at them - or ignore
them. I just know that it worked pretty well for my building team. I'd be
happy to answer any questions as this one of the most intimidating steps in
the whole kit.
Pete #40100 - plan to have it Osh next year.
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?RV10-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new
<http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014> fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Seat Belt support Bracket |
I'm unfortunately slow to the fight, but I was wondering how folks are
mounting these? My machine is painted so I don't really want to mount it
from the outside skin. Seems like there's not too much load on the bracket
(assuming nobody tugs on the straps, which is probably not a valid
assumption) so perhaps just use sheet metal screws on the inside?
Thanks,
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 2:06 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Seat Belt support Bracket
I would like one of the brackets, please.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
Ok, it's been redesigned, punched out, tumbled, and ready to install. I
will finish installing mine on Friday. They look great. Not trying to make
money here, just taking advantage of my brothers equipment and I had
promised 3 to RV10 guys in this area. We ran off 20, and 8 are already
spoken for. $12 should cover the bracket and shipping. Any questions on how
I installed mine, just give me a call.
Don McDonald
11460 Elks Circle
Rancho Cordova, Ca 95742
916-801-8402
#40636
Almost ready to pour fuel to it!
--------
Don A. McDonald
40636
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1090#201090
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2625c_159.jpg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing |
Could a product like this
http://www.intropc.com/item-25742-3m-auto-glass-urethane-windshield-adhes
ive-medium-viscosity-3m8693.html
be used to install the windows?
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: gary
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 1:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
IMHO you do not want to clean your windows prior to install. Leave
the protective film on all but the working edge and prep only the
working edge. If you clean the whole window you risk contaminating the
edge with things that reduce the adhesion. I would think this is true
no matter if you use weld-on, epoxy sikaflex or what ever. Most
cleaners leave behind some residue, and I never wanted to chance that it
would effect the bond.
Gary Specketer
40274 Flying
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DLIUDVINAITIS@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 1:24 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
HEY PETE,
SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAD VERY GOOD EXIPERENCE, MAY BE YOU CAN LET US
KNOW WHAT CLEANER OR PREPING YOU USED BEFORE INSTALLING YOUR WINDOWS?
I'M REAL CLOSE TO INSTALLING MY WINDOWS. THANKS
DAVE LUDD
NJ #40466
In a message dated 9/14/2008 11:04:45 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
Peter.James@sprint.com writes:
Hello fellow -10r's,
I think there has been way too much made of gluing in windows,
crazing, alternative glues, etc. I was scared to death to do mine after
all the posts. It was a learning process, but didn't go nearly as bad
as I expected ... So here is what I did - take it or leave it:
True: Weld-on is some of the gooiest stuff I have ever worked
with.worse than pro-seal. The big problem is that it likes to
'string'.and it gets everywhere.just like pro-seal, it can jump 10 feet
Put the window where you want it. Drill holes and cleco and fender
washer the window in place. This does NOT put a lot of pressure on the
window. It DOES allow the window to spring out to the exact shape of
the canopy. This is a GOOD thing.
Draw a line with one of your kids Crayola washable markers (fine
line) on the inside.
Take the window out. Use Black electrical tape to seal the window
up to the Crayola marker line. Get the seal nice and smooth and nice
and tight to the line.
Then come back over the electrical tape with BLUE tape. It doesn't
have to get right to the edge of the electrical tape, but pretty close.
I might even consider a second layer of blue tape. Do the same thing on
the outside of the window.right out to the edge. IMPORTANT: Also blue
tape a couple of layers on the outside of the fuselage around the window
well. This will be important to keep the Weld-on off the fuselage as
you glue the windows in. YES - blue tape is expensive - but don't
scrimp here. Get a 2 or 3" wide band of tape around the wells.
Sand the inside flange with sandpaper - clean with ISOPROPYL alcohol
from the DRUG STORE - get the purest stuff they have. Remember not to
leave it open as I it will absorb moisture from the air. I'm not sure
that it matters in this case, but I like the stuff to be as potent as
possible for future uses.
To glue in the window have 2 buddies over to help! One will be
inside the plane, the other on the outside.
Smear the mixed Weld-on 10 on the flange. Mine was somewhat runny..
It will try and run on you. MOVE FAST!!! Mine set in FAR less than the
20 minute pot-life it is supposed to have.
Gently set the window in place. DO NOT PRESS IT IN! If you do, the
glue will squeeze out when you press in, the window will then 'spring'
back to the cleco and fender washers - leaving a big air pocket where
the glue squeezed out. Some of this is just plain going to happen. I
will talk about that later. Have Buddy number 2 start clecoing and
fender washering the window. Hit the four corners, and a few other
places, then grab pliers, clecos, and washers and get them in. Don't
delay. You want time to clean up and work with this stuff before it
sets.
The glue is going to be a mess! Have blue shop towels and a couple
of plastic resin spreaders handy. I took a couple spreaders to my band
saw and cut a couple of varying widths.. These are plastic and won't
scratch the window. The also are stiff enough to scrape the excess glue
off. Buddy number 1 will be inside, scraping any excess off as it
squeezes out. If you don't have someone inside, this stuff will drip on
you fuselage interior and won't be easy to clean up or sand off later.
If you did a good job of taping, you will be scraping the extra glue
off the BLUE TAPE - inside and out. Keep in mind, on the outside, you
will have to scrape around the clecos and fender washers. Get the bulk
off quickly.
Next - again, moving very fast - pull the first layer of blue tape
off. This will get the bulk of extra glue off and away from the plane.
Have a big waste basket or paper bag nearby.because just like pro-seal -
this stuff can jump 10 feet and get on anything and everything. On the
outside of the plane, you will have your extra buddy pull a cleco - you
pull the tape past the hole, then have him put the cleco right back in.
It should now be setting on the second layer of tape, or the electrical
tape.
Go all the way around the windows, cleaning, peeling a layer of
tape, cleaning, peeling a layer of tape. By the time you are done, the
glue will be VERY solid. It won't be impossible to get off, but it
won't be easy. I then used a metal square tip knife, to get the final
remnants off the window on the inside and outside of the fuselage.
By using clecos and fender washers, the clamp force is regulated or
eliminated if the window has sprung up to 'meet' the fender washer. I
did not get ANY crazing at all.not even one place. My result was not
perfect. I learned the lesson of pushing the window in too far, having
it spring back, and leave a big air pocket the hard way on the first
window. I later came back with a tiny drill..used a light and drilled
two holes, then used a syringe with no needle to fill the sir pockets
with weld-on. (I have extra weld-on since I had some that had expired
and I ordered fresh for the main process.)
The cleco holes are now filled with epoxy and the high strength West
Systems Adhesive filler. You will never know that there was a hole
there.
My results are not perfect, but they are not bad. The real key is
to move fast. We did this on a warm summer evening.and the Weld-on went
to set in a real hurry.
These are my experiences - you can use them - laugh at them - or
ignore them. I just know that it worked pretty well for my building
team. I'd be happy to answer any questions as this one of the most
intimidating steps in the whole kit.
Pete #40100 - plan to have it Osh next year.
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?RV10-List.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com://www.m
atronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the
latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall penetrations - electrical |
I got mine from www.safeair1.com
Excellent customer service from these folks.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4284#204284
Message 12
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| Subject: | FAA Proposed Rule Changes |
Just my thoughts, hope it helps others who might be in the process of
writing.
_____
4002 Oakridge Drive
Crestwood, KY 40014
September 14, 2008
Miguel L. Vasconcelos
Production and Airworthiness Division
AIR-200, Room 815
800 Independence Ave., SW
Washington, D.C. 20591
Reference: Proposed Policy changes regarding Certification of Amateur Built
Aircraft.
Dear Mr. Vasconcelos;
I am a recreational aviation pilot who has built a Van's Aircraft RV-10
metal airplane, which was an educational experience for my whole family.
Building this aircraft took 13 months and 9 days with the help of my wife
and teenage daughters building with me full time. It was certificated in
2006 and we have flown it together all over the U.S. I will be purchasing
another kit and building an airplane in the near future and am very
concerned about the changes to the future 51% construction rules.
I do not see a need to change the rules as they stand. This proposal is the
typical response that takes place when a small percentage of individuals
blatantly disregard the rules. Those types of individuals will always exist
and the new rules will not prohibit their disregard. In any society, there
will always be those who cross the line and the new rules will not be an
exception. Those individuals who tempt fate will ultimately sponsor new and
more stringent rules. The result of which, typifies treatment of the
symptom and not the disease. Enforcement is the real solution, as without
it, those who suffer are the ones adhering to the rules.
My primary concern is that the complexities of this new policy will place
significant new burdens on amateur aircraft builders and make them reluctant
to participate in a market that has become an industry phenomenon. Those of
us who have followed the regulations as they stand today are concerned that
the daunting task of producing an airworthy craft will become secondary to a
bureaucratic nightmare. This would not be in the best interest of the
overall experimental market.
In my lifetime, I have never witnessed a government agency's intervention
actually promote the advancement of the free enterprise system. In fact,
there is a basic premise that I have observed in terms of absolutes and that
is; regulation is not the friend of free enterprise. Has the FAA considered
the negative economic impact that these regulations could induce? It
wouldn't be the first time that regulation killed or crippled an entire
industry. It should be self evident that the overregulated commercial side
of this industry has experienced this crippling effect. This is the primary
reason the experimental market has had so much success. I fear that your
proposed rule changes could have a far reaching and devastating effect on
this market segment, i.e. the vendors, suppliers, and their employees and
families. Please give this point of view the consideration it deserves and
don't fix it if it's not broken. The rules worked well when the industry
was in its infancy, they should work just as well now that it has matured.
You will no doubt receive hundreds if not thousands of letters voicing
concerns about this issue. Many will attempt to espouse the virtues of
their changes to your proposed rules as they have already conceded that
these changes are coming whether we speak out or not. I am of the belief
that you are of an open mind, otherwise you would not have solicited our
input.
I sincerely appreciate the opportunity to submit my comments on this
proposed policy change.
Very Truly Yours,
Jack H Sparling, Jr.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Seat Belt support Bracket |
I'm going to use rivtunts in the overhead console for the seatbelts, the headset
bracket fits nicely on the cabin strut at the overhead attach point, these brackets
are very nicely finished and ready to install..I know you couldn't make
them as nice for the money spent and the time to fabricate...worth every penny
and then some. You could easily just drill the cabin top and countersink to
install the seatbelt bracket...I would stay away from sheet metal screws, a few
10-32 flatheads installed through the cabintop should work very well....I would
drill the holes, mix some flox and epoxy and using a plastic bag like a cake
decorator, inject the flox into the area the bracket attaches. Once cured,
redrill and couuntersink.
These really do look professionaly made and look polished even though Don's says
they are tumbled.
Rick Sked
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@cableone.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:52:50 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Seat Belt support Bracket
I'm unfortunately slow to the fight, but I was wondering how folks are
mounting these? My machine is painted so I don't really want to mount it
from the outside skin. Seems like there's not too much load on the bracket
(assuming nobody tugs on the straps, which is probably not a valid
assumption) so perhaps just use sheet metal screws on the inside?
Thanks,
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 2:06 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Seat Belt support Bracket
I would like one of the brackets, please.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
Ok, it's been redesigned, punched out, tumbled, and ready to install. I
will finish installing mine on Friday. They look great. Not trying to make
money here, just taking advantage of my brothers equipment and I had
promised 3 to RV10 guys in this area. We ran off 20, and 8 are already
spoken for. $12 should cover the bracket and shipping. Any questions on how
I installed mine, just give me a call.
Don McDonald
11460 Elks Circle
Rancho Cordova, Ca 95742
916-801-8402
#40636
Almost ready to pour fuel to it!
--------
Don A. McDonald
40636
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1090#201090
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2625c_159.jpg
Message 14
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| Subject: | RE: RV-List: FAA Proposed Rule Changes |
>From VAF.
I read the postings by Van and the EAA about the NPRM. Vans shows why he's
the man and most of us just gawkers:
"As always, name-calling and vague gripes serve no purpose other than to
help convince the FAA that we are a bunch of idiots."
* The proposed rule has nothing to do with accommodating pro-built
planes, even though some of us, maybe including me, think that should be
allowed. Probably the FAA would need a directive from Congress to address
that. So no point in mentioning such potential accommodation in a response.
* Van again: "Unless the FAA sees a serious safety reason, they will
not re-evaluate existing kits that have previously been found to meet the
major portion rule." So most of us are good now. Of course we can still
comment for the sake of future kit designs, but I see no problem for future
builders of today's kits.
* Aside from some relatively minor changes for clarity, the only
change I'd like to see is a further definition of "fabrication" and
percentage: by time? by task? Unlike the EAA and others, I think the further
refinement of what constitutes an amateur built aircraft is welcome, or at
the very least, simply not a big deal. I find it very unlikely that a
legitimate amateur builder now will not be legit with these new rules. It
might be a little more onerous documenting one's work, but I think better
logging of work is to the good.
* My guess is that in addition to wanting to halt the blatant
pro-building, the FAA wants to head off a potential future problem:
well-meaning amateur builders getting more and more pre-fabbed parts until
only assembly, not fabrication, is done. I think such concern is fair and
even forward-thinking, contrary to some stereotyped responses here.
<http://www.vansairforce.com/community/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=255316>
Reply With Quote
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Weld-on 10 & crazing |
That is an EXCELLENT write-up Peter. The drilling holes thru the
windshield shouldn't be an issue they way you did it, and it is
another good way you can hold it all together. Like Gary commented,
as far as cleaning before installing, I don't know that it's really
a big necessary thing...but even though I personally avoided IPA
for the wipe, I don't think a quick wipe of it would affect anything
either if it evaporates right away. You're right though...the glue
is a pain mainly because it's quick-set and stringy, but it certainly
works fine for putting the windows in...and doing it how you did it
with helpers is a perfect way to go. It's just great to have them
in and done!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
James, Peter [SD] wrote:
> Hello fellow -10rs,
>
>
>
> I think there has been way too much made of gluing in windows, crazing,
> alternative glues, etc. I was scared to death to do mine after all the
> posts. It was a learning process, but didnt go nearly as bad as I
> expected .. So here is what I did take it or leave it:
>
>
>
> True: Weld-on is some of the gooiest stuff I have ever worked
> withworse than pro-seal. The big problem is that it likes to
> stringand it gets everywherejust like pro-seal, it can jump 10 feet
>
>
>
> Put the window where you want it. Drill holes and cleco and fender
> washer the window in place. This does NOT put a lot of pressure on the
> window. It DOES allow the window to spring out to the exact shape of
> the canopy. This is a GOOD thing.
>
>
>
> Draw a line with one of your kids Crayola washable markers (fine line)
> on the inside.
>
>
>
> Take the window out. Use Black electrical tape to seal the window up to
> the Crayola marker line. Get the seal nice and smooth and nice and
> tight to the line.
>
>
>
> Then come back over the electrical tape with BLUE tape. It doesnt have
> to get right to the edge of the electrical tape, but pretty close. I
> might even consider a second layer of blue tape. Do the same thing on
> the outside of the windowright out to the edge. IMPORTANT: Also blue
> tape a couple of layers on the outside of the fuselage around the window
> well. This will be important to keep the Weld-on off the fuselage as
> you glue the windows in. YES blue tape is expensive but dont
> scrimp here. Get a 2 or 3 wide band of tape around the wells.
>
>
>
> Sand the inside flange with sandpaper clean with ISOPROPYL alcohol
> from the DRUG STORE get the purest stuff they have. Remember not to
> leave it open as I it will absorb moisture from the air. Im not sure
> that it matters in this case, but I like the stuff to be as potent as
> possible for future uses.
>
>
>
> To glue in the window have 2 buddies over to help! One will be inside
> the plane, the other on the outside.
>
>
>
> Smear the mixed Weld-on 10 on the flange. Mine was somewhat runny. It
> will try and run on you. MOVE FAST!!! Mine set in FAR less than the 20
> minute pot-life it is supposed to have.
>
>
>
> Gently set the window in place. DO NOT PRESS IT IN! If you do, the
> glue will squeeze out when you press in, the window will then spring
> back to the cleco and fender washers leaving a big air pocket where
> the glue squeezed out. Some of this is just plain going to happen. I
> will talk about that later. Have Buddy number 2 start clecoing and
> fender washering the window. Hit the four corners, and a few other
> places, then grab pliers, clecos, and washers and get them in. Dont
> delay. You want time to clean up and work with this stuff before it sets.
>
>
>
> The glue is going to be a mess! Have blue shop towels and a couple of
> plastic resin spreaders handy. I took a couple spreaders to my band saw
> and cut a couple of varying widths.. These are plastic and wont
> scratch the window. The also are stiff enough to scrape the excess glue
> off. Buddy number 1 will be inside, scraping any excess off as it
> squeezes out. If you dont have someone inside, this stuff will drip on
> you fuselage interior and wont be easy to clean up or sand off later.
>
>
>
> If you did a good job of taping, you will be scraping the extra glue off
> the BLUE TAPE inside and out. Keep in mind, on the outside, you will
> have to scrape around the clecos and fender washers. Get the bulk off
> quickly.
>
>
>
> Next again, moving very fast pull the first layer of blue tape off.
> This will get the bulk of extra glue off and away from the plane. Have
> a big waste basket or paper bag nearbybecause just like pro-seal this
> stuff can jump 10 feet and get on anything and everything. On the
> outside of the plane, you will have your extra buddy pull a cleco you
> pull the tape past the hole, then have him put the cleco right back in.
> It should now be setting on the second layer of tape, or the electrical
> tape.
>
>
>
> Go all the way around the windows, cleaning, peeling a layer of tape,
> cleaning, peeling a layer of tape. By the time you are done, the glue
> will be VERY solid. It wont be impossible to get off, but it wont be
> easy. I then used a metal square tip knife, to get the final remnants
> off the window on the inside and outside of the fuselage.
>
>
>
> By using clecos and fender washers, the clamp force is regulated or
> eliminated if the window has sprung up to meet the fender washer. I
> did not get ANY crazing at allnot even one place. My result was not
> perfect. I learned the lesson of pushing the window in too far, having
> it spring back, and leave a big air pocket the hard way on the first
> window. I later came back with a tiny drill.used a light and drilled
> two holes, then used a syringe with no needle to fill the sir pockets
> with weld-on. (I have extra weld-on since I had some that had expired
> and I ordered fresh for the main process.)
>
>
>
> The cleco holes are now filled with epoxy and the high strength West
> Systems Adhesive filler. You will never know that there was a hole there.
>
>
>
> My results are not perfect, but they are not bad. The real key is to
> move fast. We did this on a warm summer eveningand the Weld-on went to
> set in a real hurry.
>
>
>
> These are my experiences you can use them laugh at them or ignore
> them. I just know that it worked pretty well for my building team. Id
> be happy to answer any questions as this one of the most intimidating
> steps in the whole kit.
>
> Pete #40100 plan to have it Osh next year.
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Seat Belt support Bracket |
If anyone is curious how the maker of the bracket installed the harness bra
cket, open the attachment.- If you have any questions, please feel free t
o call.-
Don McDonald
#40636
916-801-8402
--- On Sun, 9/14/08, Rick Sked <ricksked@embarqmail.com> wrote:
From: Rick Sked <ricksked@embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Seat Belt support Bracket
I'm going to use rivtunts in the overhead console for the seatbelts, the
headset bracket fits nicely on the cabin strut at the overhead attach point
,
these brackets are very nicely finished and ready to install..I know you
couldn't make them as nice for the money spent and the time to
fabricate...worth every penny and then some. You could easily just drill th
e
cabin top and countersink to install the seatbelt bracket...I would stay aw
ay
from sheet metal screws, a few 10-32 flatheads installed through the cabint
op
should work very well....I would drill the holes, mix some flox and epoxy a
nd
using a plastic bag like a cake decorator, inject the flox into the area th
e
bracket attaches. Once cured, redrill and couuntersink.
These really do look professionaly made and look polished even though Don's
says they are tumbled.
Rick Sked
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@cableone.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:52:50 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Seat Belt support Bracket
<coop85@cableone.net>
I'm unfortunately slow to the fight, but I was wondering how folks are
mounting these? My machine is painted so I don't really want to mount it
from the outside skin. Seems like there's not too much load on the bracket
(assuming nobody tugs on the straps, which is probably not a valid
assumption) so perhaps just use sheet metal screws on the inside?
Thanks,
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 2:06 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Seat Belt support Bracket
<ibspud@roadrunner.com>
I would like one of the brackets, please.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
Ok, it's been redesigned, punched out, tumbled, and ready to install. I
will finish installing mine on Friday. They look great. Not trying to mak
e
money here, just taking advantage of my brothers equipment and I had
promised 3 to RV10 guys in this area. We ran off 20, and 8 are already
spoken for. $12 should cover the bracket and shipping. Any questions on ho
w
I installed mine, just give me a call.
Don McDonald
11460 Elks Circle
Rancho Cordova, Ca 95742
916-801-8402
#40636
Almost ready to pour fuel to it!
--------
Don A. McDonald
40636
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1090#201090
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2625c_159.jpg
=0A=0A=0A
Message 17
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| Subject: | Seat Belt support Bracket |
--- On Sun, 9/14/08, Marcus Cooper <coop85@cableone.net> wrote:
From: Marcus Cooper <coop85@cableone.net>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Seat Belt support Bracket
<coop85@cableone.net>
I'm unfortunately slow to the fight, but I was wondering how folks are
mounting these? My machine is painted so I don't really want to mount it
from the outside skin. Seems like there's not too much load on the bracket
(assuming nobody tugs on the straps, which is probably not a valid
assumption) so perhaps just use sheet metal screws on the inside?
Thanks,
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 2:06 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Seat Belt support Bracket
<ibspud@roadrunner.com>
I would like one of the brackets, please.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
Ok, it's been redesigned, punched out, tumbled, and ready to install. I
will finish installing mine on Friday. They look great. Not trying to make
money here, just taking advantage of my brothers equipment and I had
promised 3 to RV10 guys in this area. We ran off 20, and 8 are already
spoken for. $12 should cover the bracket and shipping. Any questions on how
I installed mine, just give me a call.
Don McDonald
11460 Elks Circle
Rancho Cordova, Ca 95742
916-801-8402
#40636
Almost ready to pour fuel to it!
--------
Don A. McDonald
40636
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1090#201090
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2625c_159.jpg
Message 18
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| Subject: | Speed test today |
Got up today and ran a simple 4 course speed test. The GPS speed in the
spreadsheet is GPS Ground Speed. Looks like 175.5 Knots..average.
Looks like my indicated air speed may be a little low..
Any inputs?
Rene'
N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Speed test today |
Rene,
Awesome that you went out and did a couple of official runs!
I plugged the numbers into Kevin Horton's speed spreadsheet,
the 4-way version, here:
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/phplinks/index.php?&PID=49
I get 175.6 for both runs.
That just means that you maybe have 3.5 kts of error and when you
report speed you will have to accommodate that. I am sure with a
little playing you could improve the accuracy a small amount...maybe
even try taking some aluminum tape and taping over your static
ports with a nice clean circle sticker with a hole in the center, and
by raising them you may get more accuracy....but at 3.5kts error
I don't know that I'd invest a ton of time in it.
Thanks also for adding all of the other data points in the
spreadsheet too...that's the way to do it...record it all. From
this I can look and get the idea of the conditions.
Of course, to get max speed out of it, you'd fly a little lower,
firewall the throttle and raise the RPM, and push that fuel flow
up there a ways. But, most people will realize that the numbers
you posted are just a good ROP higher-speed cruise number that
you may get going x/c somewhere when you're not looking for
max range.
Very nice to see someone investing the time to ensure they know
the accuracy of their systems. Good job!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Rene wrote:
> Got up today and ran a simple 4 course speed test. The GPS speed in the
> spreadsheet is GPS Ground Speed. Looks like 175.5 Knots.average.
>
>
>
> Looks like my indicated air speed may be a little low
>
>
>
> Any inputs?
>
>
>
> Rene'
>
> N423CF Flying
>
> 801-721-6080
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Weld-on 10 & crazing |
Yes=2C a very nice write up.
To add to Tim & Gary's comments about cleaning the bonding surface=2C I fo
und this quote in Lancair's manual:
DON'T: Clean plexglass window with rubbing alcohol in the bonding areas aft
er sanding. The plexiglass may absorb the rubbing alcohol if sanded. Never
clean the edges. The edges are rough and may absorb the rubbing alcohol.
The correct method of cleaning the plexiglass window is to first clean the
(unsanded) bonding surface with rubbing alcohol. Apply with a soft cloth su
ch as a T-shirt. Sand the bonding areas thoroughly so no glossy areas remai
n. Using high pressure air or clean cloth=2C remove the dust from the surfa
ce. Don't touch the bonding surface proir to bonding.- Lancair Legacy manua
l
It's been five days since gluing the windshield in and now I'm getting craz
ing/surface cracks=2C on the glue joint=2C where I didn't use clamps:( But
only on the windshield not the other windows (go figure.)
Did I mess-up? I think so. Is there some additional issue with internal str
ess in the window? Who knows. I do know the window is coming out for replac
ement.
Thanks again for the support=2C
Vern Smith (#324)
> Date: Sun=2C 14 Sep 2008 19:01:52 -0500
> From: Tim@MyRV10.com
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-on 10 & crazing
>
>
> That is an EXCELLENT write-up Peter. The drilling holes thru the
> windshield shouldn't be an issue they way you did it=2C and it is
> another good way you can hold it all together. Like Gary commented=2C
> as far as cleaning before installing=2C I don't know that it's really
> a big necessary thing...but even though I personally avoided IPA
> for the wipe=2C I don't think a quick wipe of it would affect anything
> either if it evaporates right away. You're right though...the glue
> is a pain mainly because it's quick-set and stringy=2C but it certainly
> works fine for putting the windows in...and doing it how you did it
> with helpers is a perfect way to go. It's just great to have them
> in and done!
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> James=2C Peter [SD] wrote:
> > Hello fellow -10r=92s=2C
> >
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