---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/21/08: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:54 AM - Re: Gretz Heated Pitot tube back in business (andrewleopold) 2. 05:31 AM - Re: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) (Dave Leikam) 3. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) (gary) 4. 06:41 AM - Re: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) (David McNeill) 5. 06:47 AM - Check out Neil Colliver's Aerial Photo! (Tim Olson) 6. 07:14 AM - Re: ADB-S Navworx (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 7. 07:34 AM - Re: ADB-S Navworx (Tim Olson) 8. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 9. 07:38 AM - Re: ADS-B Navworx (Jesse Saint) 10. 07:57 AM - Re: ADB-S Navworx (Kelly McMullen) 11. 08:09 AM - Re: ADS-B Navworx (Tim Olson) 12. 08:16 AM - Re: ADB-S Navworx (Tim Olson) 13. 08:25 AM - Re: ADS-B Navworx (David McNeill) 14. 09:03 AM - AFS Magnometer mounting. (John Gonzalez) 15. 09:40 AM - Re: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) (John Cox) 16. 09:49 AM - Re: ADB-S Navworx (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 17. 10:02 AM - Re: Re: Gretz Heated Pitot tube back in business (John Cox) 18. 10:09 AM - Re: AFS Magnometer mounting. (orchidman) 19. 11:36 AM - Re: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) (RobHickman@aol.com) 20. 11:37 AM - Re: ADB-S Navworx (RobHickman@AOL.COM) 21. 01:03 PM - Re: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) (John Gonzalez) 22. 01:32 PM - Re: AFS Magnometer mounting. (RobHickman@aol.com) 23. 01:42 PM - Re: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) (RobHickman@aol.com) 24. 02:00 PM - Re: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) (John Gonzalez) 25. 02:08 PM - Re: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) (RobHickman@aol.com) 26. 02:32 PM - Re: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) (Steven DiNieri) 27. 02:46 PM - Re: AFS Magnometer mounting. (Fred Williams, M.D.) 28. 03:33 PM - Re: ADS-B Navworx (William Curtis) 29. 11:16 PM - Re: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) (John Cox) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:18 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Gretz Heated Pitot tube back in business From: "andrewleopold" Thanks Mike for spreading the news about the Gretz pitots being available once more. Its taken a little longer than we would have liked, but finally we have the product available to ship. I think Warren Gretz's has done a great job on the design and it's been well worth the wait. You are right, email is not secure, and it's for this reason we have a PayPal shopping cart available on our website. PayPal is about as secure as you can get, with credit card details being transfered on their secure site between the customer and PayPal only. Thanks again. Andrew Leopold Angus Aviation Pty Ltd Level 1, 129 Greenhill Road Unley 5061, South Australia Tel 011 61 8 83571842 Fax 011 61 8 83571899 andrew(at)angusaviation.com www.angusaviation.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9618#209618 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:13 AM PST US From: "Dave Leikam" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) Just a bit of info on the subject of alternatives to Weld-on, I had planned on using Scotch Weld 2216 which was recommend to me by a 3M rep at OSH. I bought a small amount and did some experimenting with it recently on a scrap of window and canopy. After sanding and prepping both parts properly, the bond did not hold up as I would have hoped. I put one part in a vice and pulled as to apply peal pressure to the bond. After a week of curing at around 70 deg, the bond popped apart rather easily. I performed this test several times and the bond always failed on the lexan side, releasing almost completely with very little trace of epoxy left on the window scrap. I now plan to use Weld-on but have concerns about crazing. Dave Leikam RV-10 #40496 N89DA (Reserved) Muskego, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:27 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) > > I think the Hysol number was 4360, but I would suggest you search the > archives. Turned out that Hysol did not work well for at least one > builder. I think it was Rob Hickman that had the problems. I was going to > use Hysol, but changed back to Weld-On when I heard about poor adhesion > issues. No problems with the Weld-On. > > -------- > David Maib > RV-10 #40559 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9612#209612 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:58 AM PST US From: "gary" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) IMHO Vans has not thought out the design of the window install very well. Other designs capture the window in between two lips of fiberglass. Then you don't need to worry about how good the adhesion of the acrylic is. Acrylic is very susceptible to chemical crazing. Thus you can avoid it by capturing it between fiberglass and not worrying about the bond. The method has been described here several times and Glasair, Glastar, Lancair all use this method. Some have the capture on the inside and some on the outside. Gary 40274 Flying -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:31 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) Just a bit of info on the subject of alternatives to Weld-on, I had planned on using Scotch Weld 2216 which was recommend to me by a 3M rep at OSH. I bought a small amount and did some experimenting with it recently on a scrap of window and canopy. After sanding and prepping both parts properly, the bond did not hold up as I would have hoped. I put one part in a vice and pulled as to apply peal pressure to the bond. After a week of curing at around 70 deg, the bond popped apart rather easily. I performed this test several times and the bond always failed on the lexan side, releasing almost completely with very little trace of epoxy left on the window scrap. I now plan to use Weld-on but have concerns about crazing. Dave Leikam RV-10 #40496 N89DA (Reserved) Muskego, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:27 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) > > I think the Hysol number was 4360, but I would suggest you search the > archives. Turned out that Hysol did not work well for at least one > builder. I think it was Rob Hickman that had the problems. I was going to > use Hysol, but changed back to Weld-On when I heard about poor adhesion > issues. No problems with the Weld-On. > > -------- > David Maib > RV-10 #40559 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9612#209612 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:07 AM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) That's the method I was referring to Phoenix Composites. After the initial bond two fiberglass Eglass strips are bonded around the exterior edge. For clamping use the bent aluminum fingers and clecoes. Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 5:59 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) IMHO Vans has not thought out the design of the window install very well. Other designs capture the window in between two lips of fiberglass. Then you don't need to worry about how good the adhesion of the acrylic is. Acrylic is very susceptible to chemical crazing. Thus you can avoid it by capturing it between fiberglass and not worrying about the bond. The method has been described here several times and Glasair, Glastar, Lancair all use this method. Some have the capture on the inside and some on the outside. Gary 40274 Flying -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:31 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) Just a bit of info on the subject of alternatives to Weld-on, I had planned on using Scotch Weld 2216 which was recommend to me by a 3M rep at OSH. I bought a small amount and did some experimenting with it recently on a scrap of window and canopy. After sanding and prepping both parts properly, the bond did not hold up as I would have hoped. I put one part in a vice and pulled as to apply peal pressure to the bond. After a week of curing at around 70 deg, the bond popped apart rather easily. I performed this test several times and the bond always failed on the lexan side, releasing almost completely with very little trace of epoxy left on the window scrap. I now plan to use Weld-on but have concerns about crazing. Dave Leikam RV-10 #40496 N89DA (Reserved) Muskego, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:27 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) > > I think the Hysol number was 4360, but I would suggest you search the > archives. Turned out that Hysol did not work well for at least one > builder. I think it was Rob Hickman that had the problems. I was going to > use Hysol, but changed back to Weld-On when I heard about poor adhesion > issues. No problems with the Weld-On. > > -------- > David Maib > RV-10 #40559 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9612#209612 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:04 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Check out Neil Colliver's Aerial Photo! Beautiful plane in a beautiful country! http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/NeilColliver/ZKRVT.jpg -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:02 AM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: ADB-S Navworx Let me guess, has something to do with Chelton's. :) Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:47 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: ADB-S Navworx I may have some news for you on that next week. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive David McNeill wrote: > Anybody heard what EFISes will display this data. > > http://www.navworx.com/press-releases.html > > * ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:50 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: ADB-S Navworx Well, it's a long time ago that Chelton started supporting ADS-B, especially since they were basically what, the first ADS-B enabled system in the world with the capstone project? So anyway, ADS-B is already supported and is an option enable-able in software. What isn't known is if there is any trick to getting something other than the original ADS-B receiver used for the project to interface with the system. Luckily, since I live basically in an area of TIS coverage with Mode-S, and am only maybe 10-20 minutes from reaching the ADS-B ground station's range at GRB, I am in a great area to get traffic from either system. This weekend I'll be doing some interface work with NavWorx to see if we can get the NavWorx receiver displaying data on the Chelton's screens. They also have a cool future benefit in that their plan is to ALSO receive the TIS info from the GTX330 transponder, and basically pass that traffic through their box so that no matter which type of coverage you have, their box can pass the traffic on to the Chelton. It may be as simple as plugging in the cable, enabling the software, and seeing the Wx and Traffic. It may take more work. But, it sounds like NavWorx is dedicated to making it available to Chelton's users (and probably many other systems), so I would think it won't be long and there will be something worth reporting. For me, Traffic has become an invaluable option, and so has weather. I doubt I'll give up WSI's weather at least until there is almost 100% weather coverage in the lower 48 states, but I'm pumped to be able to add even more TIS coverage. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > > Let me guess, has something to do with Chelton's. :) > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:47 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: ADB-S Navworx > > > I may have some news for you on that next week. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > David McNeill wrote: >> Anybody heard what EFISes will display this data. >> >> http://www.navworx.com/press-releases.html >> >> * ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:08 AM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) Dave, Be careful throwing around trade names. If you went to the 3M guys and said you wanted to bond Lexan and fiberglass you would be wrong which could have led to your problem. Lexan is polycarbonate which is not what we have. We have acrylic windows which also goes by the trade name Plexiglass. Might not have made a difference but I have no idea. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 7:31 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) Just a bit of info on the subject of alternatives to Weld-on, I had planned on using Scotch Weld 2216 which was recommend to me by a 3M rep at OSH. I bought a small amount and did some experimenting with it recently on a scrap of window and canopy. After sanding and prepping both parts properly, the bond did not hold up as I would have hoped. I put one part in a vice and pulled as to apply peal pressure to the bond. After a week of curing at around 70 deg, the bond popped apart rather easily. I performed this test several times and the bond always failed on the lexan side, releasing almost completely with very little trace of epoxy left on the window scrap. I now plan to use Weld-on but have concerns about crazing. Dave Leikam RV-10 #40496 N89DA (Reserved) Muskego, WI ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:35 AM PST US From: Jesse Saint Subject: Re: RV10-List: ADS-B Navworx It's about time someone other than Garmin makes a unit. I would imagine before long most or all of the experimental units will offer an input (GRT, AFS, etc.). Chelton already has a way to connect to the Garmin unit, so it probably will be available sooner on Tim's unit, but you can bet that AFS and GRT are hungry to get it working on their too. do not archive Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On Oct 20, 2008, at 10:23 PM, David McNeill wrote: > Anybody heard what EFISes will display this data. > > http://www.navworx.com/press-releases.html > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:27 AM PST US From: "Kelly McMullen" Subject: Re: RV10-List: ADB-S Navworx Last time I flew into EAU in a plane with GTX330 displaying traffic on GNS430, we lost TIS as soon as beyond MSP airspace and nothing around EAU. Kelly On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:34 AM, Tim Olson wrote: > Luckily, since I live basically in an area of TIS coverage with > Mode-S, and am only maybe 10-20 minutes from reaching the > ADS-B ground station's range at GRB, I am in a great area > to get traffic from either system. > > This weekend I'll be doing some interface work with NavWorx > to see if we can get the NavWorx receiver displaying data > on the Chelton's screens. They also have a cool future benefit > in that their plan is to ALSO receive the TIS info from the > GTX330 transponder, and basically pass that traffic through > their box so that no matter which type of coverage you have, > their box can pass the traffic on to the Chelton. > > It may be as simple as plugging in the cable, enabling > the software, and seeing the Wx and Traffic. It may take > more work. But, it sounds like NavWorx is dedicated to > making it available to Chelton's users (and probably > many other systems), so I would think it won't be long and > there will be something worth reporting. > > For me, Traffic has become an invaluable option, and so > has weather. I doubt I'll give up WSI's weather at least > until there is almost 100% weather coverage in the lower > 48 states, but I'm pumped to be able to add even more > TIS coverage. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: >> >> >> >> Let me guess, has something to do with Chelton's. :) >> >> Do not archive >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson >> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:47 PM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: ADB-S Navworx >> >> >> I may have some news for you on that next week. >> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying >> do not archive >> >> >> David McNeill wrote: >>> >>> Anybody heard what EFISes will display this data. >>> >>> http://www.navworx.com/press-releases.html >>> >>> * > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:33 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: ADS-B Navworx I would think that if the unit can offer TIS with the GTX-330, it won't be a stretch to add on support for ADS-B TIS. And, if they offer XM or WSI Wx, it won't be a stretch to add ADS-B Wx. ADS-B comes with both, so getting them to offer it as an option may take some programming time, but I would expect to see it offered on any of the systems that actually invest the time and effort into their products. I'm just thrilled that NavWorx came along as an alternative to the Gorilla, because the only thing keeping me from ADS-B traffic was the cost, and now that won't nearly be a problem. Anything over $5000 for a simple add-on though is just inexcuseable, and Garmin just had the market cornered. I think that will change. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Jesse Saint wrote: > It's about time someone other than Garmin makes a unit. I would imagine > before long most or all of the experimental units will offer an input > (GRT, AFS, etc.). Chelton already has a way to connect to the Garmin > unit, so it probably will be available sooner on Tim's unit, but you can > bet that AFS and GRT are hungry to get it working on their too. > > do not archive > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse@saintaviation.com > Cell: 352-427-0285 > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > On Oct 20, 2008, at 10:23 PM, David McNeill wrote: > >> Anybody heard what EFISes will display this data. >> >> http://www.navworx.com/press-releases.html >> * >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:52 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: ADB-S Navworx Yeah, I can get into TIS coverage at about 4,000', with ground at 1,000' msl. If you go past KLUM though towards KEAU, you will lose it not much further than my base airport. (I'm not based at EAU) When I fly most trips, if I go west I'm in TIS coverage within 5 minutes of taking off. I don't often go straight East, but I get coverage maybe 30-40 minutes into the flight, and if I go South East towards Chicago, I get TIS coverage well before KMSN. The Mode S coverage is actually pretty darn good going from MSP to Florida or to the East Coast. I had lots and lots of time within coverage areas on my trip up to New England a couple weeks ago. The cool thing about ADS-B is that over time, as all planes equip, it won't matter if you're even in range of a GBT to get TIS, as long as the other plane has ADS-B also. So while Mode S is fairly widely available and awesome today, but scheduled for phazing out over the next many years, in that same timeframe ADS-B will be phasing in and growing, so having both will really keep someone fully set up for some great traffic coverage. I don't regret for a second my GTX330...that thing has been fantastic. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Last time I flew into EAU in a plane with GTX330 displaying traffic on > GNS430, we lost TIS as soon as beyond MSP airspace and nothing around > EAU. > Kelly > > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:34 AM, Tim Olson wrote: > >> Luckily, since I live basically in an area of TIS coverage with >> Mode-S, and am only maybe 10-20 minutes from reaching the >> ADS-B ground station's range at GRB, I am in a great area >> to get traffic from either system. >> >> This weekend I'll be doing some interface work with NavWorx >> to see if we can get the NavWorx receiver displaying data >> on the Chelton's screens. They also have a cool future benefit >> in that their plan is to ALSO receive the TIS info from the >> GTX330 transponder, and basically pass that traffic through >> their box so that no matter which type of coverage you have, >> their box can pass the traffic on to the Chelton. >> >> It may be as simple as plugging in the cable, enabling >> the software, and seeing the Wx and Traffic. It may take >> more work. But, it sounds like NavWorx is dedicated to >> making it available to Chelton's users (and probably >> many other systems), so I would think it won't be long and >> there will be something worth reporting. >> >> For me, Traffic has become an invaluable option, and so >> has weather. I doubt I'll give up WSI's weather at least >> until there is almost 100% weather coverage in the lower >> 48 states, but I'm pumped to be able to add even more >> TIS coverage. >> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying >> do not archive >> >> >> RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: >>> >>> >>> Let me guess, has something to do with Chelton's. :) >>> >>> Do not archive >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson >>> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:47 PM >>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: ADB-S Navworx >>> >>> >>> I may have some news for you on that next week. >>> >>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying >>> do not archive >>> >>> >>> David McNeill wrote: >>>> Anybody heard what EFISes will display this data. >>>> >>>> http://www.navworx.com/press-releases.html >>>> >>>> * >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:25 AM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: ADS-B Navworx Until Gorilla swallows them and triples the price and halves the support. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:09 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: ADS-B Navworx I would think that if the unit can offer TIS with the GTX-330, it won't be a stretch to add on support for ADS-B TIS. And, if they offer XM or WSI Wx, it won't be a stretch to add ADS-B Wx. ADS-B comes with both, so getting them to offer it as an option may take some programming time, but I would expect to see it offered on any of the systems that actually invest the time and effort into their products. I'm just thrilled that NavWorx came along as an alternative to the Gorilla, because the only thing keeping me from ADS-B traffic was the cost, and now that won't nearly be a problem. Anything over $5000 for a simple add-on though is just inexcuseable, and Garmin just had the market cornered. I think that will change. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Jesse Saint wrote: > It's about time someone other than Garmin makes a unit. I would > imagine before long most or all of the experimental units will offer > an input (GRT, AFS, etc.). Chelton already has a way to connect to > the Garmin unit, so it probably will be available sooner on Tim's > unit, but you can bet that AFS and GRT are hungry to get it working on their too. > > do not archive > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse@saintaviation.com > Cell: 352-427-0285 > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > On Oct 20, 2008, at 10:23 PM, David McNeill wrote: > >> Anybody heard what EFISes will display this data. >> >> http://www.navworx.com/press-releases.html >> * >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matron >> ics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com >> /contribution >> >> * > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:14 AM PST US From: John Gonzalez Subject: RV10-List: AFS Magnometer mounting. I made a bracket like the one someone posted a picture of in a prior email so that it mounts on the top portion of the bulhead aft of the battery comp artment. After looking at the mounting directions in the manual=2C I am perplexed th at AFS does not make a bracket which the magnometer it mounted on to allow fine tuning the direction of mounting the unit. A leveller to accounts for pitch=2C role and yaw. Guess I will have to fabricate a mounting plate that does this with fine tuning aluminum screws. Now using a laser leveller ins ide the plane from the EFIs screen to the magnometer=2C how will I manage t hat? Am I making this more complicated than it really is???????????????????????? ?????????????/ JOhn G. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:18 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) From: "John Cox" Depending on Trade name, it is important to specific the correct substrates. It is also great practice to take a sample of each and use the properly glued product to judge the result before committing a several hundred dollar plexi windscreen to the canopy. Lexan(tm) brings a whole new set of problems into the final equation. Dave's effort at a sample coupon sacrificed for the cause, is a great step. I would bet he actually used plexi cut from the original screen. Proper preparation of the surfaces can make all the difference in the adhesion. Crazing is a chemistry and stress matter. Those coupons can be used to show the effects of various window cleaner chemicals as well. LP Plastics - George and AP Plastics - Jeff can both give you a great baseline of data. LP has offered to provide thicker and tinted versions of the RV-10 product line. That is another story. It sounds like Dave was sold by the 3M rep, which is the salesman's job. John Cox Do not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 7:35 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) Dave, Be careful throwing around trade names. If you went to the 3M guys and said you wanted to bond Lexan and fiberglass you would be wrong which could have led to your problem. Lexan is polycarbonate which is not what we have. We have acrylic windows which also goes by the trade name Plexiglass. Might not have made a difference but I have no idea. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 7:31 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) Just a bit of info on the subject of alternatives to Weld-on, I had planned on using Scotch Weld 2216 which was recommend to me by a 3M rep at OSH. I bought a small amount and did some experimenting with it recently on a scrap of window and canopy. After sanding and prepping both parts properly, the bond did not hold up as I would have hoped. I put one part in a vice and pulled as to apply peal pressure to the bond. After a week of curing at around 70 deg, the bond popped apart rather easily. I performed this test several times and the bond always failed on the lexan side, releasing almost completely with very little trace of epoxy left on the window scrap. I now plan to use Weld-on but have concerns about crazing. Dave Leikam RV-10 #40496 N89DA (Reserved) Muskego, WI ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:10 AM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: ADB-S Navworx So here's a question. If you are feeding it TIS info from your 330, would it then rebroadcast that via ADS-B? Hey Rob, is this in your pipeline to support in the AFS EFIS products? Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 10:14 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: ADB-S Navworx Yeah, I can get into TIS coverage at about 4,000', with ground at 1,000' msl. If you go past KLUM though towards KEAU, you will lose it not much further than my base airport. (I'm not based at EAU) When I fly most trips, if I go west I'm in TIS coverage within 5 minutes of taking off. I don't often go straight East, but I get coverage maybe 30-40 minutes into the flight, and if I go South East towards Chicago, I get TIS coverage well before KMSN. The Mode S coverage is actually pretty darn good going from MSP to Florida or to the East Coast. I had lots and lots of time within coverage areas on my trip up to New England a couple weeks ago. The cool thing about ADS-B is that over time, as all planes equip, it won't matter if you're even in range of a GBT to get TIS, as long as the other plane has ADS-B also. So while Mode S is fairly widely available and awesome today, but scheduled for phazing out over the next many years, in that same timeframe ADS-B will be phasing in and growing, so having both will really keep someone fully set up for some great traffic coverage. I don't regret for a second my GTX330...that thing has been fantastic. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:11 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Gretz Heated Pitot tube back in business From: "John Cox" Thank You from across the pond. John Cox RV-10 Aurora, OR USA Be sure and archive the website! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrewleopold Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 3:53 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Gretz Heated Pitot tube back in business Thanks Mike for spreading the news about the Gretz pitots being available once more. Its taken a little longer than we would have liked, but finally we have the product available to ship. I think Warren Gretz's has done a great job on the design and it's been well worth the wait. You are right, email is not secure, and it's for this reason we have a PayPal shopping cart available on our website. PayPal is about as secure as you can get, with credit card details being transfered on their secure site between the customer and PayPal only. Thanks again. Andrew Leopold Angus Aviation Pty Ltd Level 1, 129 Greenhill Road Unley 5061, South Australia Tel 011 61 8 83571842 Fax 011 61 8 83571899 andrew(at)angusaviation.com www.angusaviation.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9618#209618 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:11 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: AFS Magnometer mounting. From: "orchidman" indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com wrote: > Am I making this more complicated than it really is When you build and mount the bracket, that is when you start with the level. Shims should work to fine tune it. This is not unique to AFS. -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 Instrument Panel, Fiberglass - SB (N2GB registered) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9687#209687 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:15 AM PST US From: RobHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) I tried the following from Lancair: 9360 Hysol is a two-component toughened paste adhesive, which combines high peel strength at room temperature with tensile lap shear strength at 225 =B0F to 250=B0F (107=B0C to 121=B0C). My front windshield is still in with this along with two layers of fiberglass over the top. I installed the side windows with WeldOn 10 and h ad absolutely no problems with it. In all the testing I did after the wind ows fell out the first time showed that the Hysol does not make a very strong bond a nd the WeldOn does. Before you do anything you should test your procedures and the product on a test piece. Rob Hickman RV-10 N402RH (Stuck in Cylinder recall Hell) **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:29 AM PST US From: RobHickman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: RV10-List: ADB-S Navworx In a message dated 10/21/2008 9:50:48 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rvbuilder@sausen.net writes: Hey Rob, is this in your pipeline to support in the AFS EFIS products? We believe that the traffic will already work from it with our system. We should have it verified in the next couple of weeks. Rob Hickman Advanced Flight Systems **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:02 PM PST US From: John Gonzalez Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) What bonding agent failed on the windows the first time? Which windows fail ed? I will be putting fiberglass over the edges of all windows=2C but the front windscreen will need more than two layers to hold it in place if the under lying bond fails. John G. From: RobHickman@aol.comDate: Tue=2C 21 Oct 2008 14:28:19 -0400Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing)To: rv10-list@matronics. com I tried the following from Lancair: 9360 Hysol is a two-component toughened paste adhesive=2C which combines hi gh peel strength at room temperature with tensile lap shear strength at 225 =B0F to 250=B0F (107=B0C to 121=B0C). My front windshield is still in with this along with two layers of fibergla ss over the top. I installed the side windows with WeldOn 10 and had absol utely no problems with it. In all the testing I did after the windows fe ll out the first time showed that the Hysol does not make a very strong bon d and the WeldOn does. Before you do anything you should test your procedures and the product on a test piece. Rob Hickman RV-10 N402RH (Stuck in Cylinder recall Hell) New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining=2C Mo vies=2C Events=2C News & more. Try it out! ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:56 PM PST US From: RobHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: AFS Magnometer mounting. In a message dated 10/21/2008 9:05:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, indigoonlatigo@msn.com writes: Am I making this more complicated than it really is?????????????????????????????????????/ Yes, Take a look at the following picture from my RV-10 _http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magnetometermountingrv1ij8.jpg_ (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magnetometermountingrv1ij8.jpg) It took less than an hour to make and install and it works perfectly. I used brass screws and nuts. Rob Hickman N402RH RV-10 **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:44 PM PST US From: RobHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) Match: #6 Message: #17373 From: RobHickman(at)aol.com Date: Jun 30, 2008 Subject: _Hysol 9360 Test and Window Install_ (http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=33682832?KEYS=hysol_&_rob_hickman?LISTNAME=RV10 ?HITNUMBER=6?SERIAL=1333066866?SHOWBUTTONS=NO) Match: #10 Message: #17334 From: RobHickman(at)aol.com Date: Jun 27, 2008 Subject: _Hysol 9360 Window install update_ (http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=33625865?KEYS=hysol_&_rob_hickman?LISTNAME=RV10? HITNUMBER=10?SERIAL=1333066866?SHOWBUTTONS=NO) Read these in the archives. Rob Hickman N402RH RV-10 **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:59 PM PST US From: John Gonzalez Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) It appears that the issue here is about clamping force/compression distribu tion and both products have their drawbacks but that Hysol is not being use d in the same way on the 10 as on the Lancairs. Better distribute the force with the Weld on. Again=2C I had no problems on the rear windows=2C but they didn't need to bend to get them to fit. John G. From: RobHickman@aol.comDate: Tue=2C 21 Oct 2008 16:41:55 -0400Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing)To: rv10-list@matronics. com Match: #6 Message: #17373 From: RobHickman(at)aol.com Jun 30=2C 2008 Subject: Hysol 9360 Test and Window Install Match: #10 Message: #17334 From: RobHickman(at)aol.com Jun 27=2C 2008 Subject: Hysol 9360 Window install update Read these in the archives. Rob Hickman N402RH RV-10 New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining=2C Mo vies=2C Events=2C News & m2/aol?redir=http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=e mlcntnew00000002">Try it out! ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:54 PM PST US From: RobHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) The Lancair window flange is also about 2" wide and the windows are installed from the inside of the plane. Rob Hickman N402RH RV-10 **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:47 PM PST US From: "Steven DiNieri" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) After the last post about the relatively light clamping pressure and the appearance of cracks, leads me to believe that perhaps the weld on product may create some exothermic heat during cure. Isn't it possible that the clamps may not be cracking the plexi from pressure but from the concentration of heat. or the lack of even temps during cure? Now I don't have any experience with weld on adhesive, but I'd be curious to here if anyone thinks this is possible. Steve DiNieri iflyrv10.com 40208 From: John Gonzalez Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) It appears that the issue here is about clamping force/compression distribution and both products have their drawbacks but that Hysol is not being used in the same way on the 10 as on the Lancairs. Better distribute the force with the Weld on. Again, I had no problems on the rear windows, but they didn't need to bend to get them to fit. John G. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:53 PM PST US From: "Fred Williams, M.D." Subject: Re: RV10-List: AFS Magnometer mounting. Maybe a little more complicated than necessary. I have a AFS 3500 unit. I went to the local airplane supply store ( home Depot) got two 3/4 x 1/8 aluminum angles. I then bolted them to the longerons in the bay aft of the battery compartment. Spaced them apart enough to hold the AFS unit. I then screwed the unit onto the rails with brass screws and locknuts. You now are automatically aligned side to side and for and aft. I have had no problems with the calibration or readings on the AFS. Also, I did put some clear vinyl hose on the rear seat belts to keep them from rubbing on the aluminum angles. Used some heat shrink to keep the tubes from creeping. I made up a shelf to put on the bulkhead, but took it off when I realized how hard it will be to adjust the shelf with the top skin on and crawling around in the back. I was also a little concerned about the autopilot motor and the Whelen strobes. I have had not seen any problems with the magnetometer readings or alignment or stability with my set up. Shoot me an email if I can be of further help. Dr. Fred. 40515 35 1/2 hrs. (why am I sitting here? I should be flying!) John Gonzalez wrote: > I made a bracket like the one someone posted a picture of in a prior > email so that it mounts on the top portion of the bulhead aft of the > battery compartment. > > After looking at the mounting directions in the manual, I am perplexed > that AFS does not make a bracket which the magnometer it mounted on to > allow fine tuning the direction of mounting the unit. A leveller to > accounts for pitch, role and yaw. Guess I will have to fabricate a > mounting plate that does this with fine tuning aluminum screws. Now > using a laser leveller inside the plane from the EFIs screen to the > magnometer, how will I manage that? > > Am I making this more complicated than it really > is?????????????????????????????????????/ > > JOhn G. > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:10 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: ADS-B Navworx From: "William Curtis" Well, I kind-a like what Gorilla did with the MX-20. They took a mediocre product built on MS Windows NT, improved it and called it the MX-200. A MUCH better product with better support. William http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/ -------- Original Message -------- > > Until Gorilla swallows them and triples the price and halves the support. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:09 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: ADS-B Navworx > > > I would think that if the unit can offer TIS with the GTX-330, it won't be a > stretch to add on support for ADS-B TIS. And, if they offer XM or WSI Wx, > it won't be a stretch to add ADS-B Wx. ADS-B comes with both, so getting > them to offer it as an option may take some programming time, but I would > expect to see it offered on any of the systems that actually invest the time > and effort into their products. > I'm just thrilled that NavWorx came along as an alternative to the Gorilla, > because the only thing keeping me from ADS-B traffic was the cost, and now > that won't nearly be a problem. Anything over $5000 for a simple add-on > though is just inexcuseable, and Garmin just had the market cornered. I > think that will change. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > Jesse Saint wrote: > > It's about time someone other than Garmin makes a unit. I would > > imagine before long most or all of the experimental units will offer > > an input (GRT, AFS, etc.). Chelton already has a way to connect to > > the Garmin unit, so it probably will be available sooner on Tim's > > unit, but you can bet that AFS and GRT are hungry to get it working on > their too. > > > > do not archive > > > > Jesse Saint > > Saint Aviation, Inc. > > jesse@saintaviation.com > > Cell: 352-427-0285 > > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > > > On Oct 20, 2008, at 10:23 PM, David McNeill wrote: > > > >> Anybody heard what EFISes will display this data. > >> > >> http://www.navworx.com/press-releases.html > >> * > >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matron > >> ics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com > >> /contribution ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:48 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) From: "John Cox" To measure exothermic, just mix a batch in a cup and then use an IR pistol thermometer from Harbor Freight to measure any temperature rise over the pot life. Temperatures beyond the product range can create adverse results. The IR gun will be invaluable at tracking sparkplug fowling, hot axle bearings and when not to insert your arm into the lower cowl near the exhaust stacks which have not cooled enough. John C. From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DiNieri Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:30 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) After the last post about the relatively light clamping pressure and the appearance of cracks, leads me to believe that perhaps the weld on product may create some exothermic heat during cure. Isn't it possible that the clamps may not be cracking the plexi from pressure but from the concentration of heat. or the lack of even temps during cure? Now I don't have any experience with weld on adhesive, but I'd be curious to here if anyone thinks this is possible. Steve DiNieri iflyrv10.com 40208 From: John Gonzalez Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Windows and Weld-on angst (Crazing) It appears that the issue here is about clamping force/compression distribution and both products have their drawbacks but that Hysol is not being used in the same way on the 10 as on the Lancairs. Better distribute the force with the Weld on. Again, I had no problems on the rear windows, but they didn't need to bend to get them to fit. John G. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.