RV10-List Digest Archive

Sun 10/26/08


Total Messages Posted: 18



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 08:16 AM - Re: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest (John Ackerman)
     2. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest (Robin Marks)
     3. 01:26 PM - Re: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest (Kelly McMullen)
     4. 02:34 PM - Re: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest (John Cox)
     5. 04:49 PM - Weight and Balance Questions (Jim)
     6. 04:49 PM - Wegith and Balance (Jim)
     7. 05:41 PM - Re: Weight and Balance Questions (bcondrey)
     8. 05:43 PM - Re: Weight and Balance Questions (bcondrey)
     9. 05:47 PM - Re: Weight and Balance Questions (Rene)
    10. 06:46 PM - Re: Re: Weight and Balance Questions (Jim)
    11. 06:53 PM - Re: Re: Weight and Balance Questions (Jim)
    12. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest (Deems Davis)
    13. 07:05 PM - Re: Weight and Balance Questions (bcondrey)
    14. 07:09 PM - Re: NavWorx Update (Tim Olson)
    15. 07:16 PM - Re: Re: Weight and Balance Questions (Jim)
    16. 07:33 PM - Re: Re: Weight and Balance Questions (Kelly McMullen)
    17. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest (William Souza)
    18. 09:20 PM - Re: Elevating the fuse to put it up on it's gear (Vernon Smith)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 08:16:46 AM PST US
    From: John Ackerman <johnag5b@cableone.net>
    Subject: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest
    Hear, hear! Truly great, Myron. Thank you again John Ackerman On Oct 25, 2008, at 10:22 PM, Don McDonald wrote: > Myron, great job and it was great to meet you. Thanks for providing > a place to get together. Met some really nice people and I'm sure > I'll see them all again. Thanks again. > Don McDonald > > --- On Fri, 10/24/08, woxofswa <woxof@aol.com> wrote: > From: woxofswa <woxof@aol.com> > Subject: RV10-List: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 11:26 AM > > > All set up right behind the display tents. Lunch tomorrow (sat) > noonish. Lots > of shade and chairs for anyone who wants a place to relax. > > -------- > Myron Nelson > Mesa, AZ > Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210132#210132 > > > _- > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > _- > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > _- > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > _- > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== >


    Message 2


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    Time: 09:25:25 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest
    From: "Robin Marks" <robin1@mrmoisture.com>
    So this talented group of people can build an airplane from parts but can't post Copperstate Fly In photos on the internet??? Robin Do Not Archive


    Message 3


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    Time: 01:26:41 PM PST US
    From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest
    Difficult to take pictures when you have drink in one hand and food in the other. 8-) On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com> wrote: > So this talented group of people can build an airplane from parts but can't > post Copperstate Fly In photos on the internet??? > > > Robin >


    Message 4


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    Time: 02:34:59 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest
    From: "John Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
    We can and will. We were just all enjoying the Arizona sunshine. John Cox -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest Difficult to take pictures when you have drink in one hand and food in the other. 8-) On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com> wrote: > So this talented group of people can build an airplane from parts but can't > post Copperstate Fly In photos on the internet??? > > > Robin >


    Message 5


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    Time: 04:49:15 PM PST US
    Subject: Weight and Balance Questions
    From: "Jim" <jim@CombsFive.Com>
    Guess I should check spelling before sending! Sorry about that I finally get around to getting an official weight and balance for my airplane. But it has lead to a few questions. (1) I find in surprising that vans RV-10 sample WB pdf does not have arms for the nose wheel and the mains. Do they expect those to be different from one builder to another? I could not find any spreadsheets from other builders showing what their moment arms were. Yes I know I am supposed to measure this but I want to compare my results to some others. My nose wheel arm ended up being 50.125" forward of the leading edge (99.440 based on Vans numbers) which makes my nose wheel arm 49.315. My mains are back 24" from the wing LE making my mains arm 123.440". What did others measure? (2) So now I weigh the airplane (using certified scales) and I find the empty CG way forward (102.46"). I expected the forward CG but not quite that much. Even with me as the sole occupant and half fuel, I need to have 100 lbs in the baggage area just to get the CG back to the most forward allowable (107.84"). Now I played with the numbers and it does allow one to really load up the airplane for maximum capabilities, but wow I didn't expect to have to load up the baggage area on the first flights. Did others find the same conditions? If one were to take off on the first flight and not check the CG, it would make for an interesting landing! Looks like carrying passengers on the flights is not only good but maybe even required unless I want to carry around some extra weight (couple of 5 gallon water containers). Very interesting! Jim Combs N312F, 40192


    Message 6


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    Time: 04:49:33 PM PST US
    Subject: Wegith and Balance
    From: "Jim" <jim@CombsFive.Com>
    I finally get around to getting an official weight and balance for my airplane. But it has lead to a few questions. (1) I find in surprising that vans RV-10 sample WB pdf does not have arms for the nose wheel and the mains. Do they expect those to be different from one builder to another? I could not find any spreadsheets from other builders showing what their moment arms were. Yes I know I am supposed to measure this but I want to compare my results to some others. My Nose wheel arm ended up being 50.125" forward of the leading edge (99.440 based on Vans numbers) which makes my nose wheel arm 49.315. My mains are back 24" from the wing LE making my mains arm 123.440". What did others measure? (2) So now I weigh the airplane (using certified scales) and I find the empty CG way forward (102.46"). I expected the forward CG but not quite that much. Even with me as the sole occupant and half fuel, I need to have 100 lbs in the baggage area just to get the CG back to the most forward allowable (107.84"). Now I played with the numbers and it does allow one to really load up the airplane for maximum capabilities, but wow I didn't expect to have to load up the baggage area on the first flights. Did others find the same conditions? If one were to take off on the first flight and not check the CG, it woudl make for an interesting landing! Looks like carrying passengers on the flights is not only good but maybe even required unless I want to carry around some extra weight (couple of 5 gallon water containers). Very interesting! Jim Combs N312F, 40192


    Message 7


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    Time: 05:41:51 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Questions
    From: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
    Jim, That empty CG sound WAY forward! Here's the link to a DB with data from several RV-10 W&B (including mine). What were your individual wheel weights? BTW, the numbers that I have show the following Arms for the gear - nose: 50.44", left main: 124.31", right main: 124.44". Bob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210417#210417


    Message 8


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    Time: 05:43:02 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Questions
    From: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
    More helpful if the link is actually in the email... http://www.rvproject.com/wab/ Bob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210418#210418


    Message 9


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    Time: 05:47:56 PM PST US
    From: "Rene" <rene@felker.com>
    Subject: Weight and Balance Questions
    Jim, is your airplane close to the same configuration as Vans? If it is, I do not see how you got it to 102.46. I will send you my WB in PM. Rene' 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:48 PM Subject: RV10-List: Weight and Balance Questions Guess I should check spelling before sending! Sorry about that I finally get around to getting an official weight and balance for my airplane. But it has lead to a few questions. (1) I find in surprising that vans RV-10 sample WB pdf does not have arms for the nose wheel and the mains. Do they expect those to be different from one builder to another? I could not find any spreadsheets from other builders showing what their moment arms were. Yes I know I am supposed to measure this but I want to compare my results to some others. My nose wheel arm ended up being 50.125" forward of the leading edge (99.440 based on Vans numbers) which makes my nose wheel arm 49.315. My mains are back 24" from the wing LE making my mains arm 123.440". What did others measure? (2) So now I weigh the airplane (using certified scales) and I find the empty CG way forward (102.46"). I expected the forward CG but not quite that much. Even with me as the sole occupant and half fuel, I need to have 100 lbs in the baggage area just to get the CG back to the most forward allowable (107.84"). Now I played with the numbers and it does allow one to really load up the airplane for maximum capabilities, but wow I didn't expect to have to load up the baggage area on the first flights. Did others find the same conditions? If one were to take off on the first flight and not check the CG, it would make for an interesting landing! Looks like carrying passengers on the flights is not only good but maybe even required unless I want to carry around some extra weight (couple of 5 gallon water containers). Very interesting! Jim Combs N312F, 40192


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:46:26 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Questions
    From: "Jim" <jim@CombsFive.Com>
    408 on the nose wheel and 547 on the mains. That puts us at an empty weight of 1502 lbs. These differ quite a bit from some of the other spreadsheets I have received from other builders. I have not painted the airplane and the interior is basically untouched. Plans are to do the interior (that be carpeting and decorating stuff) after flying a few hours. Both of these would add significant weight aft of the CG. Also we are using a Hartzel 2 blade prop (Not the blended airfoil) on a IO-540-C4B5 (Not new) with the original Lycoming starter. Maybe with all these affects added together, we have a really heavy front end. I have access to another set of scales and may re-weigh just to make sure of the numbers. Thanks, Jim C


    Message 11


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    Time: 06:53:18 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Questions
    From: "Jim" <jim@CombsFive.Com>
    Rene and Bob, Thanks, for the info. I now have some numbers to compare to. My moment arms match up with yours very well. The weights however do appear to indicate a pretty nose heavy airplane. I will get a second set of scales and do it all again just to confirm or deny the numbers. The scales I used were just recently certified, so I believe they should be accurate. Maybe we will just have to go ahead and put the interior in too. Right now it's just a lot of painted metal. Jim C


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:01:52 PM PST US
    From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest
    http://deemsrv10.com/album/Copperstate%202008/index.html Sorry, I was so busy eating & talking I didn't get any pictures of 'The Nest' or it's occupants!!!! Deems Robin Marks wrote: > > So this talented group of people can build an airplane from parts but > cant post Copperstate Fly In photos on the internet??? > > Robin > > Do Not Archive > > * > *


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:05:54 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Questions
    From: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
    Might go without saying, but also double check the aircraft attitude when it's on the scales - should be level and that can make a huge difference! bob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210428#210428


    Message 14


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    Time: 07:09:46 PM PST US
    From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
    Subject: Re: NavWorx Update
    Just FYI, I did get some photos posted. Nothing earth shattering, but at least you can see some of it. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20081025/index.html Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Tim Olson wrote: > > For this test it was just the PADS600 portable. The ADS600 > will give you the same basic thing, but you'll install a > blade style DME antenna, and it will accept external GPS > feeds. The one today had built-in GPS and a small stick > antenna. For most people who are building planes, we'll > want the fixed unit, because it will give better signal > and performance. > > No, this is not a "receive only" system....it's the whole > works, transmit and receive. Cool stuff, that's for sure. > > I'll do a quick write-up with photos when I can sit down > and put it together. > > One other thing.....since Garmin does all their stuff using > proprietary interfaces, this ADS-B isn't going to be an > option on some Garmin products....they shoot themselves > in the foot by not wanting to use more "open" interface > specs. So the experimental and non-garmin world has a > lot of good cost savings benefit by a product like this. > I do think that it will feed some of the radios like > the 430/530/480 though...but we didn't talk much about that, > so I'm not sure. > > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > William Curtis wrote: >> <wcurtis@nerv10.com> >> >> Tim, >> >> Very cool! Are you using the portable PADS600 or the fixed ADS600? >> IF the ADS600, what do you have for antenna placement and can you >> confirm that this is a "receive only" system? >> >> William http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/ >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >>> I just wanted to follow up as I said I'd post more information after >>> today. I worked with Bill from NavWorx today in getting the >>> NavWorx ADS-B system hooked up to the Chelton system. I had >>> prepared a harness in advance, that could take the place of one of >>> my existing interfaces. As you know, ADS-B can provide both >>> traffic and WX. The Chelton has a config screen for weather and >>> traffic and currently my system was set up to receive traffic from >>> the GTX-330 and Weather from WSI. I turned them both to ADS-B, we >>> fired up the transceiver on at OSH, and went for a flight. >>> >>> I can now report that ADS-B weather displays, with VERY fast update >>> rates, on the Chelton system, and does a great job. On the flight, >>> we got to check out the traffic portion also, flying a loop around >>> Appleton and down. Traffic was visible and it had a very fast >>> update speed on the screens...you could watch the traffic slide >>> across the Chelton's and it was updated faster than the GTX-330 >>> traffic. >>> >>> There was only 2 oddities in the whole thing, one of them done on >>> purpose, and one of them something that NavWorx will now refine a >>> little more. The first is that the unit that we were using was not >>> programmed to filter traffic based on distance or altitude >>> away...thus, we could actually receive traffic targets that were >>> even 100nm away! This is a setting that they can program, so you >>> have traffic available at whatever range or altitude difference >>> that you want, and this one was left open to all traffic. The oddity >>> that we saw was that during turns, we detected our own >>> airplane as traffic, which as I understand it is due to the >>> inaccuracy of the radar station we were in. We would get a Mode-S >>> traffic "hit" that would sometimes show up .25-.3 miles from our >>> plane. Apparently this is an effect caused by my having a mode-S >>> transponder, in that both the ADS-B and Mode-S target are in the same >>> spot, but with radar inaccuracies, they may not be identically >>> placed. The receiver is supposed to have an algorithm that hides >>> one of the hits if they're so close in position and altitude that >>> they must be the same plane, so that algorithm needs to be modified >>> slightly (just a simple software update for NavWorx) to hide them >>> just a little further separated than it is now. I was very >>> interested to see that for Wx, the single ground-based station >>> basically covers way outside the entire state of Wisconsin, so with >>> ADS-B weather, my entire home state would have coverage. That is not >>> to say I'd be able to receive the ground station, but I'd see >>> the Nexrad for the whole state, plus more, when I am in ADS-B >>> coverage. Now they just have to get the ADS-B system country wide >>> to be deployed. >>> >>> So, not only does it appear that NavWorx has a great little system >>> for WAY WAY less than Garmin, but it works fine with Cheltons >>> already existing ADS-B interfacing. It should also work fine for >>> others like GRT and Advanced Flight once they bring their >>> programming for it to completion. >>> >>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> >> > > > >


    Message 15


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    Time: 07:16:10 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Questions
    From: "Jim" <jim@CombsFive.Com>
    It was level. But I will continue the investigation! Thanks, Jim C


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:33:57 PM PST US
    From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
    Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Questions
    And one needs to be certain that it is flight level, however Van's defines that. On some aircraft models, taxi level is not flight level. bcondrey wrote: > > Might go without saying, but also double check the aircraft attitude when it's on the scales - should be level and that can make a huge difference! > > bob > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210428#210428 > > >


    Message 17


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    Time: 07:41:35 PM PST US
    From: William Souza <electspec@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest
    Just acouple of pic's from CopperState. Rick, You'll like this one. Bill,SoCal RV Group --- On Sun, 10/26/08, Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote: > From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Date: Sunday, October 26, 2008, 6:57 PM > <deemsdavis@cox.net> > > > http://deemsrv10.com/album/Copperstate%202008/index.html > > Sorry, I was so busy eating & talking I didn't get > any pictures of 'The > Nest' or it's occupants!!!! > > > Deems > > Robin Marks wrote: > > > > So this talented group of people can build an airplane > from parts but > > can=A2t post Copperstate Fly In photos on the > internet??? > > > > Robin > > > > Do Not Archive > > > > * > > * > > =========== =========== =========== ===========


    Message 18


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    Time: 09:20:56 PM PST US
    From: Vernon Smith <planesmith@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Elevating the fuse to put it up on it's gear
    Just went through this two weeks ago. I didn't measure it at the time but i n measuring it now=2C the center section between the two main gear needs t o be about 30 to 32" above the ground. Vern Smith (#324 finishing?) do not archive > Subject: RV10-List: Elevating the fuse to put it up on it's gear > From: Mikeabel@Pacbell.net > Date: Sat=2C 25 Oct 2008 13:17:07 -0700 > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > > > How high must the fuselage be elevated to put the gear on? > > -------- > OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in &quot=3B09 > Q/B Kit - wiring and FWF > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210262#210262 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cn s!20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008




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