Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:16 AM - Re: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest (John Ackerman)
2. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest (Robin Marks)
3. 01:26 PM - Re: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest (Kelly McMullen)
4. 02:34 PM - Re: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest (John Cox)
5. 04:49 PM - Weight and Balance Questions (Jim)
6. 04:49 PM - Wegith and Balance (Jim)
7. 05:41 PM - Re: Weight and Balance Questions (bcondrey)
8. 05:43 PM - Re: Weight and Balance Questions (bcondrey)
9. 05:47 PM - Re: Weight and Balance Questions (Rene)
10. 06:46 PM - Re: Re: Weight and Balance Questions (Jim)
11. 06:53 PM - Re: Re: Weight and Balance Questions (Jim)
12. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest (Deems Davis)
13. 07:05 PM - Re: Weight and Balance Questions (bcondrey)
14. 07:09 PM - Re: NavWorx Update (Tim Olson)
15. 07:16 PM - Re: Re: Weight and Balance Questions (Jim)
16. 07:33 PM - Re: Re: Weight and Balance Questions (Kelly McMullen)
17. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest (William Souza)
18. 09:20 PM - Re: Elevating the fuse to put it up on it's gear (Vernon Smith)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest |
Hear, hear!
Truly great, Myron. Thank you again
John Ackerman
On Oct 25, 2008, at 10:22 PM, Don McDonald wrote:
> Myron, great job and it was great to meet you. Thanks for providing
> a place to get together. Met some really nice people and I'm sure
> I'll see them all again. Thanks again.
> Don McDonald
>
> --- On Fri, 10/24/08, woxofswa <woxof@aol.com> wrote:
> From: woxofswa <woxof@aol.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 11:26 AM
>
>
> All set up right behind the display tents. Lunch tomorrow (sat)
> noonish. Lots
> of shade and chairs for anyone who wants a place to relax.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210132#210132
>
>
> _-
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Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest |
So this talented group of people can build an airplane from parts but
can't post Copperstate Fly In photos on the internet???
Robin
Do Not Archive
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest |
Difficult to take pictures when you have drink in one hand and food in
the other. 8-)
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com> wrote:
> So this talented group of people can build an airplane from parts but can't
> post Copperstate Fly In photos on the internet???
>
>
> Robin
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest |
We can and will. We were just all enjoying the Arizona sunshine.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest
Difficult to take pictures when you have drink in one hand and food in
the other. 8-)
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com> wrote:
> So this talented group of people can build an airplane from parts but can't
> post Copperstate Fly In photos on the internet???
>
>
> Robin
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Weight and Balance Questions |
Guess I should check spelling before sending!
Sorry about
that
I finally get around to getting an official weight and
balance for my
airplane. But it has lead to a few questions.
(1) I find in surprising that vans RV-10 sample WB pdf does
not have arms for
the nose wheel and the mains. Do they expect
those to be different
from one builder to another? I could not
find any spreadsheets from
other builders showing what their moment
arms were. Yes I know I am
supposed to measure this but I want
to compare my results to some
others. My nose wheel arm ended
up being 50.125" forward of the
leading edge (99.440 based on
Vans numbers) which makes my nose wheel arm
49.315. My mains
are back 24" from the wing LE making my mains
arm
123.440". What did others measure?
(2) So now I
weigh the airplane (using certified scales) and I find the empty CG way
forward (102.46"). I expected the forward CG but not quite
that much. Even with me as the sole occupant and half fuel, I need
to have 100 lbs in the baggage area just to get the CG back to the most
forward allowable (107.84"). Now I played with the numbers
and
it does allow one to really load up the airplane for maximum
capabilities, but wow I didn't expect to have to load up the baggage area
on the first flights. Did others find the same conditions?
If one were to take off on the first flight and not check the CG, it
would make for an
interesting landing! Looks like carrying
passengers on the flights is not only good but maybe even required unless
I want to carry around some extra weight (couple of 5 gallon water
containers).
Very interesting!
Jim Combs
N312F,
40192
Message 6
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Subject: | Wegith and Balance |
I finally get around to getting an official weight and balance for my
airplane. But it has lead to a few questions.
(1) I
find in surprising that vans RV-10 sample WB pdf does not have arms for
the nose wheel and the mains. Do they expect those to be different
from one builder to another? I could not find any spreadsheets from
other builders showing what their moment arms were. Yes I know I am
supposed to measure this but I want to compare my results to some
others. My Nose wheel arm ended up being 50.125" forward of the
leading edge (99.440 based on Vans numbers) which makes my nose wheel arm
49.315. My mains are back 24" from the wing LE making my mains
arm 123.440". What did others measure?
(2) So now I
weigh the airplane (using certified scales) and I find the empty CG way
forward (102.46"). I expected the forward CG but not quite that
much. Even with me as the sole occupant and half fuel, I need to
have 100 lbs in the baggage area just to get the CG back to the most
forward allowable (107.84"). Now I played with the numbers and
it does allow one to really load up the airplane for maximum capabilities,
but wow I didn't expect to have to load up the baggage area on the first
flights. Did others find the same conditions?
If one were
to take off on the first flight and not check the CG, it woudl make for an
interesting landing! Looks like carrying passengers on the flights
is not only good but maybe even required unless I want to carry around
some extra weight (couple of 5 gallon water containers).
Very
interesting!
Jim Combs
N312F, 40192
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance Questions |
Jim,
That empty CG sound WAY forward! Here's the link to a DB with data from several
RV-10 W&B (including mine). What were your individual wheel weights? BTW,
the numbers that I have show the following Arms for the gear - nose: 50.44", left
main: 124.31", right main: 124.44".
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210417#210417
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance Questions |
More helpful if the link is actually in the email...
http://www.rvproject.com/wab/
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210418#210418
Message 9
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Subject: | Weight and Balance Questions |
Jim, is your airplane close to the same configuration as Vans? If it
is, I
do not see how you got it to 102.46. I will send you my WB in PM.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Weight and Balance Questions
Guess I should check spelling before sending!
Sorry about that
I finally get around to getting an official weight and balance for my
airplane. But it has lead to a few questions.
(1) I find in surprising that vans RV-10 sample WB pdf does not have
arms
for
the nose wheel and the mains. Do they expect those to be different
from one builder to another? I could not find any spreadsheets from
other builders showing what their moment arms were. Yes I know I am
supposed to measure this but I want to compare my results to some
others. My nose wheel arm ended up being 50.125" forward of the
leading edge (99.440 based on Vans numbers) which makes my nose wheel
arm
49.315. My mains are back 24" from the wing LE making my mains
arm 123.440". What did others measure?
(2) So now I weigh the airplane (using certified scales) and I find the
empty CG way
forward (102.46"). I expected the forward CG but not quite that much.
Even
with me as the sole occupant and half fuel, I need to have 100 lbs in
the
baggage area just to get the CG back to the most forward allowable
(107.84"). Now I played with the numbers and
it does allow one to really load up the airplane for maximum
capabilities,
but wow I didn't expect to have to load up the baggage area on the first
flights. Did others find the same conditions?
If one were to take off on the first flight and not check the CG, it
would
make for an
interesting landing! Looks like carrying passengers on the flights is
not
only good but maybe even required unless I want to carry around some
extra
weight (couple of 5 gallon water containers).
Very interesting!
Jim Combs
N312F, 40192
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance Questions |
408 on the nose wheel and 547 on the mains. That puts us at an empty
weight of 1502 lbs. These differ quite a bit from some of the other
spreadsheets I have received from other builders.
I have not
painted the airplane and the interior is basically untouched. Plans
are to do the interior (that be carpeting and decorating stuff) after
flying a few hours. Both of these would add significant weight aft
of the CG.
Also we are using a Hartzel 2 blade prop (Not
the blended airfoil) on a IO-540-C4B5 (Not new) with the original
Lycoming starter.
Maybe with all these affects added together,
we have a really heavy front end.
I have access to another set
of scales and may re-weigh just to make sure of the numbers.
Thanks, Jim C
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance Questions |
Rene and Bob,
Thanks, for the info.
I now
have some numbers to compare to.
My moment arms match up
with yours very well. The weights however do appear to indicate a
pretty nose heavy airplane.
I will get a second set of scales
and do it all again just to confirm or deny the numbers. The scales
I used were just recently certified, so I believe they should be
accurate.
Maybe we will just have to go ahead and put the
interior in too. Right now it's just a lot of painted metal.
Jim C
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest |
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Copperstate%202008/index.html
Sorry, I was so busy eating & talking I didn't get any pictures of 'The
Nest' or it's occupants!!!!
Deems
Robin Marks wrote:
>
> So this talented group of people can build an airplane from parts but
> cant post Copperstate Fly In photos on the internet???
>
> Robin
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> *
> *
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance Questions |
Might go without saying, but also double check the aircraft attitude when it's
on the scales - should be level and that can make a huge difference!
bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210428#210428
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: NavWorx Update |
Just FYI, I did get some photos posted. Nothing earth shattering,
but at least you can see some of it.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20081025/index.html
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> For this test it was just the PADS600 portable. The ADS600
> will give you the same basic thing, but you'll install a
> blade style DME antenna, and it will accept external GPS
> feeds. The one today had built-in GPS and a small stick
> antenna. For most people who are building planes, we'll
> want the fixed unit, because it will give better signal
> and performance.
>
> No, this is not a "receive only" system....it's the whole
> works, transmit and receive. Cool stuff, that's for sure.
>
> I'll do a quick write-up with photos when I can sit down
> and put it together.
>
> One other thing.....since Garmin does all their stuff using
> proprietary interfaces, this ADS-B isn't going to be an
> option on some Garmin products....they shoot themselves
> in the foot by not wanting to use more "open" interface
> specs. So the experimental and non-garmin world has a
> lot of good cost savings benefit by a product like this.
> I do think that it will feed some of the radios like
> the 430/530/480 though...but we didn't talk much about that,
> so I'm not sure.
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> William Curtis wrote:
>> <wcurtis@nerv10.com>
>>
>> Tim,
>>
>> Very cool! Are you using the portable PADS600 or the fixed ADS600?
>> IF the ADS600, what do you have for antenna placement and can you
>> confirm that this is a "receive only" system?
>>
>> William http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> I just wanted to follow up as I said I'd post more information after
>>> today. I worked with Bill from NavWorx today in getting the
>>> NavWorx ADS-B system hooked up to the Chelton system. I had
>>> prepared a harness in advance, that could take the place of one of
>>> my existing interfaces. As you know, ADS-B can provide both
>>> traffic and WX. The Chelton has a config screen for weather and
>>> traffic and currently my system was set up to receive traffic from
>>> the GTX-330 and Weather from WSI. I turned them both to ADS-B, we
>>> fired up the transceiver on at OSH, and went for a flight.
>>>
>>> I can now report that ADS-B weather displays, with VERY fast update
>>> rates, on the Chelton system, and does a great job. On the flight,
>>> we got to check out the traffic portion also, flying a loop around
>>> Appleton and down. Traffic was visible and it had a very fast
>>> update speed on the screens...you could watch the traffic slide
>>> across the Chelton's and it was updated faster than the GTX-330
>>> traffic.
>>>
>>> There was only 2 oddities in the whole thing, one of them done on
>>> purpose, and one of them something that NavWorx will now refine a
>>> little more. The first is that the unit that we were using was not
>>> programmed to filter traffic based on distance or altitude
>>> away...thus, we could actually receive traffic targets that were
>>> even 100nm away! This is a setting that they can program, so you
>>> have traffic available at whatever range or altitude difference
>>> that you want, and this one was left open to all traffic. The oddity
>>> that we saw was that during turns, we detected our own
>>> airplane as traffic, which as I understand it is due to the
>>> inaccuracy of the radar station we were in. We would get a Mode-S
>>> traffic "hit" that would sometimes show up .25-.3 miles from our
>>> plane. Apparently this is an effect caused by my having a mode-S
>>> transponder, in that both the ADS-B and Mode-S target are in the same
>>> spot, but with radar inaccuracies, they may not be identically
>>> placed. The receiver is supposed to have an algorithm that hides
>>> one of the hits if they're so close in position and altitude that
>>> they must be the same plane, so that algorithm needs to be modified
>>> slightly (just a simple software update for NavWorx) to hide them
>>> just a little further separated than it is now. I was very
>>> interested to see that for Wx, the single ground-based station
>>> basically covers way outside the entire state of Wisconsin, so with
>>> ADS-B weather, my entire home state would have coverage. That is not
>>> to say I'd be able to receive the ground station, but I'd see
>>> the Nexrad for the whole state, plus more, when I am in ADS-B
>>> coverage. Now they just have to get the ADS-B system country wide
>>> to be deployed.
>>>
>>> So, not only does it appear that NavWorx has a great little system
>>> for WAY WAY less than Garmin, but it works fine with Cheltons
>>> already existing ADS-B interfacing. It should also work fine for
>>> others like GRT and Advanced Flight once they bring their
>>> programming for it to completion.
>>>
>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance Questions |
It was level.
But I will continue the investigation!
Thanks, Jim C
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance Questions |
And one needs to be certain that it is flight level, however Van's
defines that. On some aircraft models, taxi level is not flight level.
bcondrey wrote:
>
> Might go without saying, but also double check the aircraft attitude when it's
on the scales - should be level and that can make a huge difference!
>
> bob
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210428#210428
>
>
>
Message 17
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|
Subject: | Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest |
Just acouple of pic's from CopperState.
Rick, You'll like this one.
Bill,SoCal RV Group
--- On Sun, 10/26/08, Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote:
> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Copperstate RV-10 Nest
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, October 26, 2008, 6:57 PM
> <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
>
> http://deemsrv10.com/album/Copperstate%202008/index.html
>
> Sorry, I was so busy eating & talking I didn't get
> any pictures of 'The
> Nest' or it's occupants!!!!
>
>
> Deems
>
> Robin Marks wrote:
> >
> > So this talented group of people can build an airplane
> from parts but
> > can=A2t post Copperstate Fly In photos on the
> internet???
> >
> > Robin
> >
> > Do Not Archive
> >
> > *
> > *
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
Message 18
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|
Subject: | Elevating the fuse to put it up on it's gear |
Just went through this two weeks ago. I didn't measure it at the time but i
n measuring it now=2C the center section between the two main gear needs t
o be about 30 to 32" above the ground.
Vern Smith (#324 finishing?)
do not archive
> Subject: RV10-List: Elevating the fuse to put it up on it's gear
> From: Mikeabel@Pacbell.net
> Date: Sat=2C 25 Oct 2008 13:17:07 -0700
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
> How high must the fuselage be elevated to put the gear on?
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "=3B09
> Q/B Kit - wiring and FWF
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210262#210262
>
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