Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:22 AM - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November! (dralle@matronics.com)
2. 06:55 AM - Re: The Gorilla speaks (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
3. 06:55 AM - Re: The Gorilla speaks (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
4. 08:16 AM - OPPS! Windscreen and faring (John Gonzalez)
5. 08:34 AM - Re: OPPS! Windscreen and faring (Deems Davis)
6. 08:57 AM - Re: OPPS! Windscreen and faring (John Gonzalez)
7. 09:09 AM - Screw hardware for instrument panel (MauleDriver)
8. 09:33 AM - Re: Screw hardware for instrument panel (Bob-tcw)
9. 10:37 AM - Re: Screw hardware for instrument panel (MauleDriver)
10. 10:57 AM - Re: Screw hardware for instrument panel (Deems Davis)
11. 01:54 PM - Re: Screw hardware for instrument panel (Dave Saylor)
12. 02:57 PM - Re: Screw hardware for instrument panel (N777TY)
13. 04:38 PM - Fitting Bulkheads to Skin (Perry, Phil)
14. 05:02 PM - Re: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin (Carl Froehlich)
15. 05:09 PM - Re: Flying with AFS EFIS - mid west.... (John Cumins)
16. 05:27 PM - Re: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin (Perry, Phil)
17. 06:25 PM - Re: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin (Carl Froehlich)
18. 07:10 PM - Re: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin (Rick Sked)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November! |
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation
and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's through soley through the
Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible.
You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site ( http://forums.matronics.com ), Wiki site ( http://wiki.matronics.com ), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matronics.com/search ), List Browse ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisments.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every few days
reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the
bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution counts.
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with
the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and
have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/).
These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective
web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product
line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support
of the Lists again this year!!
You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this
year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods
afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with
a qualifying Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years. I know it sounds a little cliche, but you guys really
do feel like family.
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 2
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| Subject: | The Gorilla speaks |
Actually, the TomTom units are a bit nicer and you don't have to pay for
map updates. Like I said it all depends, I don't see the point of spending
$30 to $50 a month for weather and have it only get used a couple times wh
en you can bring it with you. If I was going to leave it in the aircraft,
I would just add weather to the EFIS and not even bother with a portable un
it. My 196 has seen tons more use in my truck than it ever did in an aircr
aft. BTW, the Nuvi's use the exact same City Navigator maps that the x96 s
eries units do. One thing I noticed about my Nuvi 250W is that it seems to
update position a lot slower than my old 196. It's always lagging my posi
tion.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 6:26 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: The Gorilla speaks
There was some discussion of availability of Auto mode on the 696. I don't
know if that issue was put to rest but I would not make that my determining
factor because one can buy a Garmin 200W for $175.00 or less. I have built
in GPS in two cars but placed the 200W in one of my trucks and it's better
than the built-in's. I think the auto mode of my 396 stinks in relationshi
p to my 200W when used on land.
Ahhhh eBay $135.95 + Free Shipping
Robin
Do Not Archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | The Gorilla speaks |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Message 4
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| Subject: | OPPS! Windscreen and faring |
Confession time!
I made an opps! I have to say that the instruction for building the windscreen
faring could be written much better for someone with instructionitis.
I have a fare amount of experience with fiberglass.
The directions tell you to use a 7 inch radius to determine the forward edge height
of the fiberglass overlap onto the windscreen. The trailing height near the
door intersection is determined by the curve in the door window joggle.
In any case, from what I can determine, I sanded my windscreen about one and a
half inch higher than it needed to be. I didn't realize this until I started cutting
the strips of fiberglass and wonderred, man if the widest strip of glass
is only 3.5" and I am centering each layer of glass on top of the other, that
is only going to make a 1.75" plexi glass overlap.
Some of the confusion was that the directions stated to sand the aluminum 4" forward
of the base of the windscreen. Why they ask this if the widest glass layer
is only going to extend 1.75" forward is beyond me.
If I were to do it all over again...I would use the height of the rear corner to
define the height of the plexi glass overlap and extend that height forward
and all the way around. I would make the fiberglass widths wider so that they
cover more of the aluminum, but I wouldn't center them on one another. obviously,
the overlap would progressively get wider over the aluminum than it does over
the plexiglass.
I would also mix some flox into the micro mix for the base of the windscreen. The
first few layers of glass should be wider IMO because they should slightly
over lap the plexiglass and it doesn't SEE FIGURE in manual.
Because I sanded the windscreen, I did something different. Of course I was doing
something different from the beginning because I was using 8.1oz satin weave
cloth, so I planned on more laminations from the beginning.
I ended up using the same beginning widths but after the 3.5", I did 4, 4.5, 5,
6, 6.75.
Well, I have a bullet proof faring, I just want to say my profile and head on view
will look different than the rest of them. I have never had the seats in the
plane, but I don't think the view over the cowl will be too much different.
HEADS UP IF YOU AREONE WITH INSTRUCTIONITIS.
John G. 409, It almost looks like the Lancair Evolution, just kidding.
Moving on now that I have purged.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: OPPS! Windscreen and faring |
John, I wouldn't fret over it, I didn't like the appearance for the
smaller Van's radius and so I made a template with a larger Radius
(9"?) and then adjusted the widths of the layups accordingly as you
did. It seems to have turned out fine.
http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%20PP%20Painting%20Preparation/slides/DSC04472.html
http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Painting/slides/DSC06753.html
http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Painting/slides/DSC06757.html
http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Painting/slides/DSC06752.html
Deems
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | OPPS! Windscreen and faring |
Thanks Deems.
Your plane looks just great too.
JOhn G
----------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 08:32:28 -0700
> From: deemsdavis@cox.net
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: OPPS! Windscreen and faring
>
>
> John, I wouldn't fret over it, I didn't like the appearance for the
> smaller Van's radius and so I made a template with a larger Radius
> (9"?) and then adjusted the widths of the layups accordingly as you
> did. It seems to have turned out fine.
>
> http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%20PP%20Painting%20Preparation/slides/DSC04472.html
> http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Painting/slides/DSC06753.html
> http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Painting/slides/DSC06757.html
> http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Painting/slides/DSC06752.html
>
> Deems
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Screw hardware for instrument panel |
I'm thinking of using black socket head screws for most of the panel.
Stein's blank is setup for #8, the electronic instruments (autopilot,
ADI) are setup for #6. I'm thinking black socket heads will look good
on a tan/brown panel.
What's a good source for black socket heads? A/C Spruce doesn't seem to
do those. Any other thoughts?
Bill "making holes in the panel blank" Watson
40605 in Durham NC
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Screw hardware for instrument panel |
Bill, Regardless of what screws you pick, if you go for black oxide
screws you will definetly want to paint them first. Black oxide is not
much of a rust inhibitor and you will have rusted panel screws after a
couple of humidity cycles.
-Bob Newman
40176
----- Original Message -----
From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:08 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Screw hardware for instrument panel
>
> I'm thinking of using black socket head screws for most of the panel.
> Stein's blank is setup for #8, the electronic instruments (autopilot, ADI)
> are setup for #6. I'm thinking black socket heads will look good on a
> tan/brown panel.
>
> What's a good source for black socket heads? A/C Spruce doesn't seem to
> do those. Any other thoughts?
>
> Bill "making holes in the panel blank" Watson
> 40605 in Durham NC
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Screw hardware for instrument panel |
That's real good to know. Sounds like the voice of experience.
Thanks Bob.
Bob-tcw wrote:
>
> Bill, Regardless of what screws you pick, if you go for black oxide
> screws you will definetly want to paint them first. Black oxide is
> not much of a rust inhibitor and you will have rusted panel screws
> after a couple of humidity cycles.
>
>
> -Bob Newman
> 40176
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "MauleDriver" <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
> To: "RV10-List Digest Server" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 12:08 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Screw hardware for instrument panel
>
>
>>
>> I'm thinking of using black socket head screws for most of the panel.
>> Stein's blank is setup for #8, the electronic instruments (autopilot,
>> ADI) are setup for #6. I'm thinking black socket heads will look
>> good on a tan/brown panel.
>>
>> What's a good source for black socket heads? A/C Spruce doesn't seem
>> to do those. Any other thoughts?
>>
>> Bill "making holes in the panel blank" Watson
>> 40605 in Durham NC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Screw hardware for instrument panel |
Ace hardware, Home Depot, or Lowes
Deems
MauleDriver wrote:
>
> I'm thinking of using black socket head screws for most of the panel.
> Stein's blank is setup for #8, the electronic instruments (autopilot,
> ADI) are setup for #6. I'm thinking black socket heads will look good
> on a tan/brown panel.
>
> What's a good source for black socket heads? A/C Spruce doesn't seem
> to do those. Any other thoughts?
>
> Bill "making holes in the panel blank" Watson
> 40605 in Durham NC
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Screw hardware for instrument panel |
Bill,
Try searching for this P/N: 96006A616 at http://www.mcmaster.com/
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 9:09 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Screw hardware for instrument panel
I'm thinking of using black socket head screws for most of the panel.
Stein's blank is setup for #8, the electronic instruments (autopilot,
ADI) are setup for #6. I'm thinking black socket heads will look good on a
tan/brown panel.
What's a good source for black socket heads? A/C Spruce doesn't seem to do
those. Any other thoughts?
Bill "making holes in the panel blank" Watson
40605 in Durham NC
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Screw hardware for instrument panel |
I tried those cap screws and then had a change of heart and went to regular black
oxide screws... I do love the looks of black oxide against my tan panel..
The heads of those cap screws were too "tall" and I didn't care for that look
that much after I saw it all mounted in the plane.. (easy to snag on..)
McMaster is a good place for this kind of hardware.. their selection is hard to
beat..
good luck....
Radomir
RV-7A
--------
RV-7A
N777TY
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211673#211673
Message 13
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| Subject: | Fitting Bulkheads to Skin |
Hi Everyone,
Last night I managed to stay awake until 2Am working on the tailcone.
:)
I finally had to go to bed when I found this issue. The shape of the
bulkhead flanges do not allow the flange to sit correctly against the
fuselage skin.
I'm considering knocking off the corners of the flanges and letting it
sit against the skins correctly, however I wanted to pick your brain.
1) Did you experience this same gap, or do I have poorly manufactured
product?
2) How did you fix it?
Thanks,
Phil
Message 14
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| Subject: | Fitting Bulkheads to Skin |
This is where you use shims. Take some .032=94 and .025=94 scrap
aluminum and
cut into small squares, say =BE=94 by =BE=94 but you can trim them to
fit as needed.
Drill and dimple a hole in the center of the square and then prime.
Insert
the shim between the rib and the skin. In some places you will need to
use
two shims.
The shims make the difference in having a nice curve in the skin as it
follows the rib instead of flat spots where you drove in the rivet
(without
having anything in the gap between the skin and rib as shown in your
photos).
The rule is if you can squeeze a shim in between the skin and the rib,
you
need a shim.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (475 hrs)
RV-10 (fuselage)
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin
Hi Everyone,
Last night I managed to stay awake until 2Am working on the tailcone.
:)
I finally had to go to bed when I found this issue. The shape of the
bulkhead flanges do not allow the flange to sit correctly against the
fuselage skin.
I'm considering knocking off the corners of the flanges and letting it
sit
against the skins correctly, however I wanted to pick your brain.
1) Did you experience this same gap, or do I have poorly manufactured
product?
2) How did you fix it?
Thanks,
Phil
Message 15
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| Subject: | Flying with AFS EFIS - mid west.... |
Rob
I just might take you up on that next spring. Looks like mother winter has
arrived. Will be in Eugene over Thanksgiving but it will be a bit busy to
visit. Any chance you might be coming down to Northern ca for aopa
convention
If so I would like to buy you a Starbucks.
I am very interested in AFS and am very much leaning that way for my 10 but
I have years to go I just started.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RobHickman@aol.com
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flying with AFS EFIS - mid west....
If you fly out to Oregon you can always fly in my RV-10 with three screens,
weather, traffic, SL30, and a 430W.
We should have the latest software with Flight Director, Autopilot
interface, and weather released in the next couple of weeks. We just sent
out the latest beta version and we should be very close if not finished with
it.
We are also making good progress on our new synthetic vision "ADVANCED
SV"upgrade and it should be ready for Sun-n-Fun.
Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
_____
Plan your next getaway
witx1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntus
trav00000001">Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!
Message 16
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| Subject: | Fitting Bulkheads to Skin |
Thanks Carl.
I'm actually getting some small outward dents where the corners of the
bulkheads are pressing against the inside of the skins.
Do I shim to the point where the corners are lifted from the skin? Or
do I leave the corners pressing against the skin and shim the gap only?
I'm guessing option 1.....
Phil
________________________________
From: Carl Froehlich [mailto:carl.froehlich@cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 6:59 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin
This is where you use shims. Take some .032" and .025" scrap aluminum
and cut into small squares, say =BE" by =BE" but you can trim them to
fit as needed. Drill and dimple a hole in the center of the square and
then prime. Insert the shim between the rib and the skin. In some
places you will need to use two shims.
The shims make the difference in having a nice curve in the skin as it
follows the rib instead of flat spots where you drove in the rivet
(without having anything in the gap between the skin and rib as shown in
your photos).
The rule is if you can squeeze a shim in between the skin and the rib,
you need a shim.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (475 hrs)
RV-10 (fuselage)
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin
Hi Everyone,
Last night I managed to stay awake until 2Am working on the tailcone.
:)
I finally had to go to bed when I found this issue. The shape of the
bulkhead flanges do not allow the flange to sit correctly against the
fuselage skin.
I'm considering knocking off the corners of the flanges and letting it
sit against the skins correctly, however I wanted to pick your brain.
1) Did you experience this same gap, or do I have poorly manufactured
product?
2) How did you fix it?
Thanks,
Phil
Message 17
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| Subject: | Fitting Bulkheads to Skin |
For corners that severe you might want to so some minor rounding of the
rib=92s sharp edges using a scotch bright wheel in addition to using a
shim.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 8:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin
Thanks Carl.
I'm actually getting some small outward dents where the corners of the
bulkheads are pressing against the inside of the skins.
Do I shim to the point where the corners are lifted from the skin? Or
do I
leave the corners pressing against the skin and shim the gap only?
I'm guessing option 1.....
Phil
_____
From: Carl Froehlich [mailto:carl.froehlich@cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 6:59 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin
This is where you use shims. Take some .032=94 and .025=94 scrap
aluminum and
cut into small squares, say =BE=94 by =BE=94 but you can trim them to
fit as needed.
Drill and dimple a hole in the center of the square and then prime.
Insert
the shim between the rib and the skin. In some places you will need to
use
two shims.
The shims make the difference in having a nice curve in the skin as it
follows the rib instead of flat spots where you drove in the rivet
(without
having anything in the gap between the skin and rib as shown in your
photos).
The rule is if you can squeeze a shim in between the skin and the rib,
you
need a shim.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (475 hrs)
RV-10 (fuselage)
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin
Hi Everyone,
Last night I managed to stay awake until 2Am working on the tailcone.
:)
I finally had to go to bed when I found this issue. The shape of the
bulkhead flanges do not allow the flange to sit correctly against the
fuselage skin.
I'm considering knocking off the corners of the flanges and letting it
sit
against the skins correctly, however I wanted to pick your brain.
1) Did you experience this same gap, or do I have poorly manufactured
product?
2) How did you fix it?
Thanks,
Phil
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin |
I think If I remember back about 4 years ago...I saw the same thing and han
d bent the tabs so they were rounded...this is not the only place you will
run into this...I used the hand seamer on edge=C2-to make the tabs rounde
d so the skin laid flat across the bulkheads tabs. I remember because the t
ab center whre the hole is was too far for the cleco to reach and get a goo
d grip...man the little things you can recall after four years..once you be
nd the tabs, run the whole thing across the scotchbrite wheel to make a nic
e smooth raduis for the skin to rest and remove any sharp edges for the tab
to dig into the skin.
Rick Sked
40185
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Perry" <Phil.Perry@netapp.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 1, 2008 4:36:35 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin
Hi Everyone,
Last night I managed to stay awake until 2Am working on the tailcone.=C2-
:)
I finally had to go to bed when I found this issue.=C2- The shape of the
bulkhead flanges do not allow the flange to sit correctly against the fusel
age skin.
I'm considering knocking off the corners of the flanges and letting it sit
against the skins correctly, however I wanted to pick your brain.
1) Did you experience this same gap, or do I have poorly manufactured produ
ct?
2) How did you fix it?
Thanks,
Phil
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