Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:35 AM - Re: Indicator lights - what functions to include (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
2. 06:45 AM - Rivethead Aero Parts-Lead time (Kelly McMullen)
3. 07:41 AM - Re: F-18 crashes in San Diego and kills four on the ground. (Rick Sked)
4. 07:50 AM - Re: Rivethead Aero Parts-Lead time ()
5. 08:12 AM - Re: Indicator lights - what functions to include (MauleDriver)
6. 08:15 AM - Re: Indicator lights - what functions to include (MauleDriver)
7. 08:18 AM - Re: F-18 crashes in San Diego and kills four on the ground. (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
8. 08:22 AM - Re: Rivethead Aero Parts-Lead time (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
9. 08:47 AM - Re: Rivethead Aero Parts-Lead time / Vendor report (pascal)
10. 08:54 AM - Re: Indicator lights - what functions to include (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
11. 09:03 AM - Re: Rivethead Aero Parts-Lead time / Vendor report (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
12. 09:09 AM - billet cable brackets (was Re: Rivethead Aero Parts-Lead time / Vendor report) (Bill Britton)
13. 10:01 AM - Billet Cable brackets (Fred Williams, M.D.)
14. 11:17 AM - Fuel Selector (jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com)
15. 11:55 AM - Re: Fuel Selector (Rene Felker)
16. 12:11 PM - Fuel Sender Float Wire (John Kirkland)
17. 12:37 PM - Re: Fuselage before wings? (Perry, Phil)
18. 01:30 PM - Re: Fuel Sender Float Wire (John Gonzalez)
19. 03:21 PM - Re: Fuel Selector (Marcus Cooper)
20. 03:41 PM - Re: Fuel Selector (Bob-tcw)
21. 05:58 PM - Re: Fuel Selector (jkreidler)
22. 06:23 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Selector (Bob-tcw)
23. 07:31 PM - Re: Fuel Selector (linn Walters)
24. 07:36 PM - Re: Fuel Selector (linn Walters)
25. 08:00 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Selector (Rick Sked)
26. 08:21 PM - Re: Fuel Sender Float Wire (efdsteve@aol.com)
27. 08:28 PM - Re: Fuel Sender Float Wire (Rick Sked)
28. 09:50 PM - Re: Fuel Sender Float Wire (John Gonzalez)
29. 10:53 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Selector (Don McDonald)
30. 11:19 PM - Re: Fuel Selector (Albert Gardner)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Indicator lights - what functions to include |
Bill,
I've got L&R door, main & aux low voltage, oil pressure (driven
independent of the EIS), x-feed enabled, starter engaged, EFIS Warn.
I have an array of 10 indicators and currently have the last 2 as fuel
pump & pitot heat on. I am either going to change these to incorporate
the ignition fail warning lights for the dual LSE ignition system
(recent addition to the LSE website) or put a couple of LEDs near the
starter switch.
The starter engaged and EFIS warn could easily be eliminated and you
wouldn't miss much. I created an array of 10 simply because it is above
the radio stack and that made the width very close to the same and gave
me some option of swapping for something more important in the future
(like the LSE failure warnings).
Bob
N442PM flying
MauleDriver wrote:
>
> Looking for thoughts regarding indicator/annunciator lights on my
> panel. Some of the particulars include:
> dual buss dual batt dual alt
> 3 screen GRT HX
> GRT EIS (hidden)
> Garmin stack
> PS 9000
> TT AP
> TT ADI
>
> My plan so far includes:
> Door open - 2 lights
> Low Voltage - 2 lights - 1 per buss
> I'm thinking it makes sense to add 1 low oil pressure light
> That's 5 lights
> Some of that can be displayed thru the GRTs but I'm thinking it makes
> sense to have the 5 tracked independent of the GRTs
>
> The GRT can drive an indicator or 3 but I'm unable to figure out a use
> for it.
>
> I would love to hear what others are doing or planning.
>
> Thanks
> Bill "building a panel" Watson
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Rivethead Aero Parts-Lead time |
Just got to looking at parts used in elevators and tailcone. I know
that Cleaveland Tools carries some of Rivethead's parts(or
equivalent?). Ditto steve at iflyrv10.com Any recent experience with
how quickly Rivethead ships? Would like to get all the trim cable
attach pieces and F-1012D and F-1011D. Current recommendations?
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: F-18 crashes in San Diego and kills four on the ground. |
Yeah my thoughts exactly, time to tell the Military it can no longer fly ar
ound residential areas. I think I have said before the ironic part of all t
his is when I was handling property claims I had at least two=C2-car/vehi
cle vs. houses a month and that was just for my company, not the entire ins
urance base in Southern Nevada. There were people hurt and some fatals but
always high dollar damage to the home. Unless it was a bus or a slow news d
ay, it never became a topic of discussion.=C2-Accidents happen and this o
ne was no less tragic than the two we had here. Funny he continue to attack
the experimental class even though the twin "real" airplane toally destroy
ed the home it hit but without loss of life. Our only saving grace in the "
Lets ban airplanes from our airports campaign" is the FAA thinks he is off
his rocker as much as all of us tenants at North Las Vegas. FWIW, Bob and I
pay $262.50 per month just to have our hangar sit on the airports, plus we
pay over a $1000 a year in property taxes on the shed. Granted our hangar
is 3500 sf and only 5 years old but we are one of about=C2-80=C2-just l
ike that out of at least 150 total hanagrs on the airport.In the outback wh
ere we are the revenue generated form just those hangars per year is close
to half a million, just about enough to cover Randy Walkers salary...
Rick Sked
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2008 9:01:50 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: F-18 crashes in San Diego and kills four on the ground.
Pilot ejected, but the people on the ground had were killed. What does the
North Las Vegas airport manager have to say about this?? =C2-
Couldn't help but think about the two incidences when I heard this news.
JOhn G.
===============
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rivethead Aero Parts-Lead time |
Cleaveland is just reselling Steve's parts, so those options are identical.
I ordered from Rivethead almost two years ago and got things quickly. I've heard
the same stories you probably have on VAF, but don't have direct experience.
bob
do not archive
>
> From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
> Date: 2008/12/10 Wed AM 09:43:49 EST
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Rivethead Aero Parts-Lead time
>
>
> Just got to looking at parts used in elevators and tailcone. I know
> that Cleaveland Tools carries some of Rivethead's parts(or
> equivalent?). Ditto steve at iflyrv10.com Any recent experience with
> how quickly Rivethead ships? Would like to get all the trim cable
> attach pieces and F-1012D and F-1011D. Current recommendations?
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Indicator lights - what functions to include |
I'm burying my EIS too. I haven't studied the alarm situation there
closely but my intent was to drive everything thru the EFIS and
hopefully configure the EIS to run silent and deep. I'll have to look
for that wire.
What do you see tripping the EFIS warning? Is that a fully configurable
feature in the GRT HS or is it a generic alarm used for a variety of
conditions?
Thanks.
(I love this list-server)
David Schaefer wrote:
> I currently have Primary and Secondary BUS low voltage, EIS warning
> (oil pressure only at startup), EFIS warning, X-Feed engaged, Starter
> engaged and Fuel Pump On.
>
> Remember when ordering your EIS to specify a remote line to silence
> the EIS warning ...! If it's buried like mine, it's not available to
> silence the alarm.
>
> I'll send you a picture off-line. I have a wonderful new system that
> allows for dimming and push to test for a mixture of both positive and
> negative triggered lamps!
>
> David W. Schaefer
> RV-6A N142DS "Nerdgasm"
> TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT
> EFIS HS
> www.n142ds.com <http://www.n142ds.com>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 5:48 PM, MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com
> <mailto:MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>> wrote:
>
> <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com <mailto:MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>>
>
> Looking for thoughts regarding indicator/annunciator lights on my
> panel. Some of the particulars include:
> dual buss dual batt dual alt
> 3 screen GRT HX
> GRT EIS (hidden)
> Garmin stack
> PS 9000
> TT AP
> TT ADI
>
> My plan so far includes:
> Door open - 2 lights
> Low Voltage - 2 lights - 1 per buss
> I'm thinking it makes sense to add 1 low oil pressure light
> That's 5 lights
> Some of that can be displayed thru the GRTs but I'm thinking it
> makes sense to have the 5 tracked independent of the GRTs
>
> The GRT can drive an indicator or 3 but I'm unable to figure out a
> use for it.
>
> I would love to hear what others are doing or planning.
>
> Thanks
> Bill "building a panel" Watson
>
>
> *
>
> *
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Indicator lights - what functions to include |
Scott, I have been unable to view your pics for awhile on smugmug.
Perhaps I need to join or something.
Thanks
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> I used 5 indicator lights from Lancair.
>
> My lights are:
> "Master Caution" - This is connected to the GRT EIS which goes off if
> any of the parameters are exceeded (voltage, pressures, fuel, ect...)
> "Alternator Caution" - This is connected to the B&C Specialty controller
> "Door Ajar" - I have my doors connected to this one light. If one of
> the four proximity sensors is open the door ajar light is illuminated.
> "Left Fuel Low" and "Right Fuel Low" - these two are connected to the
> fuel guardian which are two sensors set at 5 gallons in the tank.
>
> Additionally, the Cheltons also have settings which have audible
> alerts if anything is exceeded. It will say "Check Engine" and then
> highlight the problem area.
> Hope that gives you some more information.
>
> Here is a picture of the 5 annunciators.
> http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/3587176_3q6DT#433807776_pKJhW-A-LB
>
> Scott Schmidt
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
> *To:* RV10-List Digest Server <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 9, 2008 4:48:26 PM
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Indicator lights - what functions to include
>
> <mailto:MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>>
>
> Looking for thoughts regarding indicator/annunciator lights on my
> panel. Some of the particulars include:
> dual buss dual batt dual alt
> 3 screen GRT HX
> GRT EIS (hidden)
> Garmin stack
> PS 9000
> TT AP
> TT ADI
>
> My plan so far includes:
> Door open - 2 lights
> Low Voltage - 2 lights - 1 per buss
> I'm thinking it makes sense to add 1 low oil pressure light
> That's 5 lights
> Some of that can be displayed thru the GRTs but I'm thinking it makes
> sense to have the 5 tracked independent of the GRTs
>
> The GRT can drive an indicator or 3 but I'm unable to figure out a use
> for it.
>
> I would love to hear what others are doing or planning.
>
> Thanks
> Bill "building a panel"
> *
>
> *
Message 7
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| Subject: | F-18 crashes in San Diego and kills four on the ground. |
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Rivethead Aero Parts-Lead time |
I seemed to be one of the lucky ones and got my parts within a few weeks of ordering
them. That being said, if there was another option at the time like there
is now, there wouldn't have been a snowballs chance in hades I would have
got anything from them given the problems others have had. Now guys like Steve
have stepped up and are offering almost all the same things so I see no reason
to patronize Rivethead anymore.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:44 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Rivethead Aero Parts-Lead time
Just got to looking at parts used in elevators and tailcone. I know
that Cleaveland Tools carries some of Rivethead's parts(or
equivalent?). Ditto steve at iflyrv10.com Any recent experience with
how quickly Rivethead ships? Would like to get all the trim cable
attach pieces and F-1012D and F-1011D. Current recommendations?
Message 9
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| Subject: | Rivethead Aero Parts-Lead time / Vendor report |
I cant help to think that Steven (iflyrv10.com) donated/auctioned a
great set of door handles with proceeds going to the RV-10 coordinators
at OSH last summer, has been great in providing quick response and
product to those that buy things from him, yet I still sometimes see
many buying things from a reliably poor source that consistently
received poor responses from builders for their lack of follow through.
With that example in place I propose there be a site that would allow
builders to reference for places to go and avoid. Maybe I can request
Tim to have a Vendor recommended list on his site since he gets so many
hits and his site is the go to for RV-10 related information. This would
allow many to benefit by going right to the source versus needing to
search for a good place to buy things.
Names like Steinair, Stark, come to mind as places to consider for
avionics/panel, many more but I forget who they were the list would be
that place to reference.
I am designing and building my rear seats from ground up and will do my
own work, hence I determined to build the rear seats with confor foam,
as Oregon Aero, Classic Aero and Van's sells as the rear seat foam. If
anyone is looking to do the same for far less I can recommend "KCH
Enterprises Inc" as being an excellent source for the foam. They have
good prices on the foam, excellent customer statuses with when it will
ship (1-2 days') fed-ex shipping information, if it's delayed when it
will ship with the option to cancel or return the merchandise if at all
unhappy, etc..
I can also recommend a wire place (wiremasters.com) for excellent
pricing and support (even got a Christmas card last year from the sales
contact)..
Pascal
Message 10
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| Subject: | Indicator lights - what functions to include |
Bill,
I've also got my EIS buried. To eliminate its warnings all you have to
do is to set its limits to zero and set the "real" limits to whatever
values are appropriate on the EFIS. With the EIS buried you wind up
having the access it for the initial setup and then again as you
calibrate the fuel flow settings. Fuel tank level sender calibration is
better done in the EFIS.
The EFIS Warning output is redundant with messages that you'll get on
the EFIS itself. If you're trying to reduce annunciators that's
probably the least useful of all.
Bob
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Indicator lights - what functions to include
I'm burying my EIS too. I haven't studied the alarm situation there
closely but my intent was to drive everything thru the EFIS and
hopefully configure the EIS to run silent and deep. I'll have to look
for that wire.
What do you see tripping the EFIS warning? Is that a fully configurable
feature in the GRT HS or is it a generic alarm used for a variety of
conditions?
Thanks.
(I love this list-server)
David Schaefer wrote:
I currently have Primary and Secondary BUS low voltage, EIS warning (oil
pressure only at startup), EFIS warning, X-Feed engaged, Starter engaged
and Fuel Pump On.
Remember when ordering your EIS to specify a remote line to silence the
EIS warning ...! If it's buried like mine, it's not available to
silence the alarm.
I'll send you a picture off-line. I have a wonderful new system that
allows for dimming and push to test for a mixture of both positive and
negative triggered lamps!
David W. Schaefer
RV-6A N142DS "Nerdgasm"
TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT
EFIS HS
www.n142ds.com
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 5:48 PM, MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
wrote:
Looking for thoughts regarding indicator/annunciator lights on my panel.
Some of the particulars include:
dual buss dual batt dual alt
3 screen GRT HX
GRT EIS (hidden)
Garmin stack
PS 9000
TT AP
TT ADI
My plan so far includes:
Door open - 2 lights
Low Voltage - 2 lights - 1 per buss
I'm thinking it makes sense to add 1 low oil pressure light
That's 5 lights
Some of that can be displayed thru the GRTs but I'm thinking it makes
sense to have the 5 tracked independent of the GRTs
The GRT can drive an indicator or 3 but I'm unable to figure out a use
for it.
I would love to hear what others are doing or planning.
Thanks
Bill "building a panel" Watson
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
o
ntribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Rivethead Aero Parts-Lead time / Vendor report |
Steve (iflyrv10.com) would be my absolute first choice for the parts
that he makes. Only issue is that he doesn't make the full selection
(like brackets and elevator trim attach pieces) but would probably
consider doing so if there were requests. He has also been a great
supporter of the RV-10 builder community including a generous donation
to the RV-10 OSH HQ fund last year. I've also had experiences with
Rivethead Aero that were not positive but there's no point in going into
the details.
Bob
N442PM (flying)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pascal
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rivethead Aero Parts-Lead time / Vendor report
I cant help to think that Steven (iflyrv10.com) donated/auctioned a
great set of door handles with proceeds going to the RV-10 coordinators
at OSH last summer, has been great in providing quick response and
product to those that buy things from him, yet I still sometimes see
many buying things from a reliably poor source that consistently
received poor responses from builders for their lack of follow through.
With that example in place I propose there be a site that would allow
builders to reference for places to go and avoid. Maybe I can request
Tim to have a Vendor recommended list on his site since he gets so many
hits and his site is the go to for RV-10 related information. This would
allow many to benefit by going right to the source versus needing to
search for a good place to buy things.
Names like Steinair, Stark, come to mind as places to consider for
avionics/panel, many more but I forget who they were the list would be
that place to reference.
I am designing and building my rear seats from ground up and will do my
own work, hence I determined to build the rear seats with confor foam,
as Oregon Aero, Classic Aero and Van's sells as the rear seat foam. If
anyone is looking to do the same for far less I can recommend "KCH
Enterprises Inc" as being an excellent source for the foam. They have
good prices on the foam, excellent customer statuses with when it will
ship (1-2 days') fed-ex shipping information, if it's delayed when it
will ship with the option to cancel or return the merchandise if at all
unhappy, etc..
I can also recommend a wire place (wiremasters.com) for excellent
pricing and support (even got a Christmas card last year from the sales
contact)..
Pascal
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rivethead Aero Parts-Lead time |
/ Vendor report)
Does anybody have any documented pictures/ instructions on installing
the billet trim cable brackets with screws instead of rivets for later
removal??? Not sure if there's room for nutplates on the back of the
billet brackets.
Thanks,
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: pascal
To: rv10-list
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rivethead Aero Parts-Lead time / Vendor report
I cant help to think that Steven (iflyrv10.com) donated/auctioned a
great set of door handles with proceeds going to the RV-10 coordinators
at OSH last summer, has been great in providing quick response and
product to those that buy things from him, yet I still sometimes see
many buying things from a reliably poor source that consistently
received poor responses from builders for their lack of follow through.
With that example in place I propose there be a site that would allow
builders to reference for places to go and avoid. Maybe I can request
Tim to have a Vendor recommended list on his site since he gets so many
hits and his site is the go to for RV-10 related information. This would
allow many to benefit by going right to the source versus needing to
search for a good place to buy things.
Names like Steinair, Stark, come to mind as places to consider for
avionics/panel, many more but I forget who they were the list would be
that place to reference.
I am designing and building my rear seats from ground up and will do
my own work, hence I determined to build the rear seats with confor
foam, as Oregon Aero, Classic Aero and Van's sells as the rear seat
foam. If anyone is looking to do the same for far less I can recommend
"KCH Enterprises Inc" as being an excellent source for the foam. They
have good prices on the foam, excellent customer statuses with when it
will ship (1-2 days') fed-ex shipping information, if it's delayed when
it will ship with the option to cancel or return the merchandise if at
all unhappy, etc..
I can also recommend a wire place (wiremasters.com) for excellent
pricing and support (even got a Christmas card last year from the sales
contact)..
Pascal
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
12/10/2008 9:30 AM
Message 13
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| Subject: | Billet Cable brackets |
Bill
I found a couple pics to explain how I attached mine to the plates.
Link below.
http://picasaweb.google.com/drfredparis/December2008#
There is enough slack in the cables to attach the locknuts. I read
someone was able to attach nutplates to the brackets. Would be easier
install that way. I don't remember the number for the nutplates but a
number 6 size with the thread on the side would probably fit.
Dr Fred
N515 FW
To paint shop Jan 1.
60 hrs now.
Message 14
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I have had fuel selector valves on my brain, and have a few questions. Why
can't a low wing airplane draw from both tanks at once? To me if the fuel
is available at the inlet of the pump it should draw from both, just as
well as a high wing with gravity working for it. Probably something
obvious I am missing.... Has anyone ever considered using an electrically
activated fuel selector valve like the ones used in dual fuel tank trucks?
Switching tanks would then just be the flip of a switch. I think the
failure mode of this device would be to stay open on whichever tank is
selected. I will admit, complicating something as critical as fuel
management any more than is absolutely necessary does make me nervous.
Just got stuck on my brain for some reason..... Any thoughts?
Thanks, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - #40617 Finishing - 4 Partner Build
Message 15
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Here is my opinion on why we can not have a "both" position....not enough
pressure (short column of fuel) on the fuel line at the valve to insure
balancing of fuel between the tanks. This could result in the "un-porting"
of one of the lines.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:15 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Selector
I have had fuel selector valves on my brain, and have a few questions. Why
can't a low wing airplane draw from both tanks at once? To me if the fuel
is available at the inlet of the pump it should draw from both, just as well
as a high wing with gravity working for it. Probably something obvious I am
missing.... Has anyone ever considered using an electrically activated fuel
selector valve like the ones used in dual fuel tank trucks? Switching tanks
would then just be the flip of a switch. I think the failure mode of this
device would be to stay open on whichever tank is selected. I will admit,
complicating something as critical as fuel management any more than is
absolutely necessary does make me nervous. Just got stuck on my brain for
some reason..... Any thoughts?
Thanks, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - #40617 Finishing - 4 Partner Build
Message 16
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| Subject: | Fuel Sender Float Wire |
I found out the hard way that the right sender wire isn't an exact mirror of the
left. Has this happened to anyone else, and how did you get a new piece of shepard's
hook wire?
--------
RV-10 #40333
N540XP (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218730#218730
Message 17
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| Subject: | Fuselage before wings? |
Thought I'd follow up on this thread I started about 3 weeks ago.
Earlier this week I ordered the QB fuse before the wings. No issue from
Vans. It did require purchasing the $1,300 Wing Center Section. But
they're crediting it back to me when I purchase the QB wings.
No big deal at all. It was easy.
Phil "Hoping 3 months goes by quickly" Perry
________________________________
From: Perry, Phil
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 4:32 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuselage before wings?
Thanks everyone for the responses.
Brian: Did Vans work with you on the center wing carry through???
Thanks,
Phil
________________________________
From: Douglas, Brian S [mailto:brian-douglas@uiowa.edu]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:18 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuselage before wings?
That's the route I took and for nearly the same reason. It seemed like
I'd be done with the QB wings before I had time to save up for the
fuselage kit. On the other hand, there's lots of stuff to keep you busy
in the fuse kit while you save up for QB wings.
-Brian
Iowa City, IA
#40497
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:25 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fuselage before wings?
Can anyone see a reason why I couldn't complete the fuse kit before the
wings?
I was planning on going with the wings next but with the economic
uncertainty ahead of us, I'm thinking a fuse kit might be a better
option.
If I purchase QB wings, I would probably be ready for the fuse purchase
in a few months. If I bought a fuse, I could keep busy for a longer
period of time (On meaningful projects) while the economy has more time
to recover. I could:
1) Finish the fuse kit.
2) Join it to the tail cone.
3) Fit the canopy area.
4) Run systems for fuel, static, control systems, etc.
5) Run wiring
6) Setup ELT's, etc, etc, etc.
The more I think about it, the more I think a fuse kit makes better
sense at this time. Especially if you're wanting to burn time on
meaningful tasks, instead of burning time waiting for the economy to
recover while your completed wings sit in the cradle.
Thoughts on doing a fuse kit before the wings???
Phil
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
h
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.
com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | Fuel Sender Float Wire |
CAll the company that made the unit and be really charming and sweet and ma
ybe the nice lady with the hispanic last name will shine light on you=2C ta
ke pity and send you a new wire.
I succeeded in the above endevour.
JOhn G. 409> Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Sender Float Wire> From: jskirkland@w
ebpipe.net> Date: Wed=2C 10 Dec 2008 12:11:24 -0800> To: rv10-list@matronic
pe.net>> > I found out the hard way that the right sender wire isn't an exa
ct mirror of the left. Has this happened to anyone else=2C and how did you
get a new piece of shepard's hook wire?> > --------> RV-10 #40333> N540XP (
reserved)> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.
=====> > >
Message 19
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Jason,
I can't speak with authority on why not both tanks at once, but I would
suspect you would still need a left/right only option as you will most
certainly get a fuel imbalance over time due to a number of factors. I
would be very hesitant to use an electric fuel valve, even if it does stay
on one tank when failed, you may not realize you've lost control of the
valve until you really need the fuel out of the other tank.
Marcus
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:15 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Selector
I have had fuel selector valves on my brain, and have a few questions. Why
can't a low wing airplane draw from both tanks at once? To me if the fuel
is available at the inlet of the pump it should draw from both, just as well
as a high wing with gravity working for it. Probably something obvious I am
missing.... Has anyone ever considered using an electrically activated fuel
selector valve like the ones used in dual fuel tank trucks? Switching tanks
would then just be the flip of a switch. I think the failure mode of this
device would be to stay open on whichever tank is selected. I will admit,
complicating something as critical as fuel management any more than is
absolutely necessary does make me nervous. Just got stuck on my brain for
some reason..... Any thoughts?
Thanks, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - #40617 Finishing - 4 Partner Build
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Selector |
One of the issues regarding a "both" position for a fuel selector value
on a low wing plane is as follows:
When a tank is low, and you turn in that direction you risk unporting
that fuel pick up tube, with the selector set on both it will not draw
from the tank that has its pick up tube nicely bathed in fuel. As an
experiment try this, put two drinking straws in your mouth and drink
some water out of two cups, pull one straw out of one of the cups of
water while leaving the other straw submerged and try to suck on both
straws, you'll get nothing but air, no water: that's how your engine
would feel :(
-bob newman
----- Original Message -----
From: Rene Felker
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:54 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Selector
Here is my opinion on why we can not have a "both" position....not
enough pressure (short column of fuel) on the fuel line at the valve to
insure balancing of fuel between the tanks. This could result in the
"un-porting" of one of the lines.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:15 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Selector
I have had fuel selector valves on my brain, and have a few questions.
Why can't a low wing airplane draw from both tanks at once? To me if
the fuel is available at the inlet of the pump it should draw from both,
just as well as a high wing with gravity working for it. Probably
something obvious I am missing.... Has anyone ever considered using an
electrically activated fuel selector valve like the ones used in dual
fuel tank trucks? Switching tanks would then just be the flip of a
switch. I think the failure mode of this device would be to stay open
on whichever tank is selected. I will admit, complicating something as
critical as fuel management any more than is absolutely necessary does
make me nervous. Just got stuck on my brain for some reason..... Any
thoughts?
Thanks, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - #40617 Finishing - 4 Partner Build
http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?R
V10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Selector |
Bob, that makes sense.... Following that theory I have attached a picture of an
experimental apparatus showing why I believe high wing aircraft are allowed
to have a 'both' selection.
Thanks, Jason Kreidler
[quote="rnewman(at)tcwtech.com"]One of the issues regarding a "both" position for
a fuel selector value on a low wing plane is as follows:
When a tank is low, and you turn in that direction you risk unporting that fuel
pick up tube, with the selector set on both it will not draw from the tank
that has its pick up tube nicely bathed in fuel. As an experiment try this,
put two drinking straws in your mouth and drink some water out of two cups,
pull one straw out of one of the cups of water while leaving the other straw
submerged and try to suck on both straws, you'll get nothing but air,
no water: that's how your engine would feel :(
-bob newman
> ---
--------
RV-10 Quick Build
4 Partner Build - Finishing
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218790#218790
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/thirst4_176.jpg
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Selector |
Ahh yes! a gravity fed system has no issues!
do not archive,
bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:57 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Selector
> <jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com>
>
> Bob, that makes sense.... Following that theory I have attached a picture
> of an experimental apparatus showing why I believe high wing aircraft are
> allowed to have a 'both' selection.
>
> Thanks, Jason Kreidler
>
> [quote="rnewman(at)tcwtech.com"]One of the issues regarding a "both"
> position for a fuel selector value on a low wing plane is as follows:
> When a tank is low, and you turn in that direction you risk unporting
> that fuel pick up tube, with the selector set on both it will not draw
> from the tank that has its pick up tube nicely bathed in fuel. As an
> experiment try this, put two drinking straws in your mouth and drink
> some water out of two cups, pull one straw out of one of the cups of
> water while leaving the other straw submerged and try to suck on both
> straws, you'll get nothing but air, no water: that's how your engine
> would feel :(
>
>
> -bob newman
>
>
>> ---
>
>
> --------
> RV-10 Quick Build
> 4 Partner Build - Finishing
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218790#218790
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/thirst4_176.jpg
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Selector |
Bob-tcw wrote:
> One of the issues regarding a "both" position for a fuel selector
> value on a low wing plane is as follows:
> When a tank is low, and you turn in that direction you risk unporting
> that fuel pick up tube, with the selector set on both it will not draw
> from the tank that has its pick up tube nicely bathed in fuel. As an
> experiment try this, put two drinking straws in your mouth and drink
> some water out of two cups, pull one straw out of one of the cups of
> water while leaving the other straw submerged and try to suck on both
> straws, you'll get nothing but air, no water: that's how your
> engine would feel :(
>
>
> -bob newman
>
I'm not so sure ..... but I don't want to be a test pilot!!! The straw
test fails because it isn't like our fuel system at all. Consider
this: I think we all agree that there's no problem in level flight. In
a truly coordinated turn there would be no difference from a level
flight condition due to the dihedral. In a slipping turn if there's
enough 'force' to cause the 'low' tank fuel to move toward the tip, then
the 'high' side has the same force and would (in the absence of engine
fuel flow) have head pressure and would tend to drain toward the low
tank. The reverse would also be true. As long as the engine doesn't
suck more fuel than would flow, then the 'low' port wouldn't 'unport'.
At least that's my reasoning. Show me where I went wrong!
Linn
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Selector |
Sorry for the multiple posts .... clock screwed up again and I didn't catch
it! See below.
Linn
Bob-tcw wrote:
> One of the issues regarding a "both" position for a fuel selector
> value on a low wing plane is as follows:
> When a tank is low, and you turn in that direction you risk unporting
> that fuel pick up tube, with the selector set on both it will not draw
> from the tank that has its pick up tube nicely bathed in fuel. As an
> experiment try this, put two drinking straws in your mouth and drink
> some water out of two cups, pull one straw out of one of the cups of
> water while leaving the other straw submerged and try to suck on both
> straws, you'll get nothing but air, no water: that's how your
> engine would feel :(
>
>
> -bob newman
>
I'm not so sure ..... but I don't want to be a test pilot!!! The straw
test fails because it isn't like our fuel system at all. Consider
this: I think we all agree that there's no problem in level flight. In
a truly coordinated turn there would be no difference from a level
flight condition due to the dihedral. In a slipping turn if there's
enough 'force' to cause the 'low' tank fuel to move toward the tip, then
the 'high' side has the same force and would (in the absence of engine
fuel flow) have head pressure and would tend to drain toward the low
tank. The reverse would also be true. As long as the engine doesn't
suck more fuel than would flow, then the 'low' port wouldn't 'unport'.
At least that's my reasoning. Show me where I went wrong!
Linn
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Selector |
Umm...Just curious but is there something so complicated about Left-Right-Off that
I'm missing? And unless you are using individual boost pumps per tank on a
low wing setup...don't think your single boost pump will have the ummph to draw
and provide adequate pressure off a two line system. The high wing aircraft
have an age old solution to the "both" issue...it's called gravity, which if
you go messing around with using a single boost pump, dual tank, low wing fuel
system you may be introduced to that age old solution on terms that you may not
like. Experiment away, just don't cause the rest of us to have to fight for
our right to fly out of our local airports by screwing the pooch into a "congested"
area.
Rick S.
40185
Paint prep
Liking the wheel just like it is, no need to reinvent!
do not archive
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Float Wire |
Lucky you.? I think I paid $5 to Van's for a new one.? Why is it sometimes that
the plans don't become crystal clear until you've screwed something up?
Steve W.
40230
-----Original Message-----
From: John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Sent: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 3:28 pm
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Sender Float Wire
CAll the company that made the unit and be really charming and sweet and maybe
the nice lady with the hispanic last name will shine light on you, take pity and
send you a new wire.
?
I succeeded in the above endevour.
?
JOhn G. 409
> Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Sender Float Wire
> From: jskirkland@webpipe.net
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:11:24 -0800
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I found out the hard way that the right sender wire isn't an exact mirror of
the left. Has this happened to anyone else, and how did you get a new piece of
shepard's hook wire?
>
> --------
> RV-10 #40333
> N540XP (reserved)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218730#218730
>
>
>
>
>
>
>======================
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Float Wire |
lol...you mean like a trim tab?
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: efdsteve@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:20:22 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angele
s
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Sender Float Wire
Lucky you.=C2- I think I paid $5 to Van's for a new one.=C2- Why is it
sometimes that the plans don't become crystal clear until you've screwed so
mething up?
Steve W.
40230
-----Original Message-----
From: John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Sent: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 3:28 pm
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Sender Float Wire
CAll the company that made the unit and be really charming and sweet and ma
ybe the nice lady with the hispanic last name will shine light on you, take
pity and send you a new wire.
=C2-
I succeeded in the above endevour.
=C2-
JOhn G. 409
> Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Sender Float Wire
> From: jskirkland@webpipe.net
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:11:24 -0800
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
>
> I found out the hard way that the right sender wire isn't an exact mirror
of the left. Has this happened to anyone else, and how did you get a new p
iece of shepard's hook wire?
>
> --------
> RV-10 #40333
> N540XP (reserved)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
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Message 28
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| Subject: | Fuel Sender Float Wire |
I made a total of three right trim tabs.Plans don't become crystal clear un
til we screw up because we believe what we want to believe=2C we believe wh
at we think to be true and not necessarily what is.It happens with more tha
n following aircraft plans.John Socrates 409Date: Wed=2C 10 Dec 2008 23:27:
45 -0500From: ricksked@embarqmail.comTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: Re
: RV10-List: Fuel Sender Float Wire
lol...you mean like a trim tab?
Rick S.
40185
do not archive----- Original Message -----From: efdsteve@aol.comTo: rv10-li
st@matronics.comSent: Wednesday=2C December 10=2C 2008 8:20:22 PM (GMT-0800
) America/Los_AngelesSubject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Sender Float WireLucky yo
u. I think I paid $5 to Van's for a new one. Why is it sometimes that the
plans don't become crystal clear until you've screwed something up?Steve W
.40230-----Original Message-----From: John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo@msn.com
>To: RV 10 group <rv10-list@matronics.com>Sent: Wed=2C 10 Dec 2008 3:28 pmS
ubject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Sender Float Wire
CAll the company that made the unit and be really charming and sweet and ma
ybe the nice lady with the hispanic last name will shine light on you=2C ta
ke pity and send you a new wire. I succeeded in the above endevour. JOhn G.
409> Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Sender Float Wire> From: jskirkland@webpipe.
net> Date: Wed=2C 10 Dec 2008 12:11:24 -0800> To: rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > I found out the hard way that the right sender wire isn't an exact mirr
or of the left. Has this happened to anyone else=2C and how did you get a n
ew piece of shepard's hook wire?> > --------> RV-10 #40333> N540XP (reserve
d)> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/vie
wtopic.php?p=218730#218730> > > > > > >===========
============> > >
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Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Selector |
Rick, the supply line coming from the valve to the boost pump..... notice t
he verbage "line"..... not lines... it shouldn't matter whether you have 20
lines feeding into the valve, if you only have one going out.- But I'm i
n total agreement with the scenario of running out in one tank before the o
ther, the system would just suck air.
Don
--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Rick Sked <ricksked@embarqmail.com> wrote:
From: Rick Sked <ricksked@embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Selector
Umm...Just curious but is there something so complicated about Left-Right-O
ff
that I'm missing? And unless you are using individual boost pumps per tank
on a low wing setup...don't think your single boost pump will have the ummp
h
to draw and provide adequate pressure off a two line system. The high wing
aircraft have an age old solution to the "both" issue...it's
called gravity, which if you go messing around with using a single boost pu
mp,
dual tank, low wing fuel system you may be introduced to that age old solut
ion
on terms that you may not like. Experiment away, just don't cause the rest
of us to have to fight for our right to fly out of our local airports by
screwing the pooch into a "congested" area.
Rick S.
40185
Paint prep
Liking the wheel just like it is, no need to reinvent!
do not archive
=0A=0A=0A
Message 30
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I once was doing a very aggressive slip in my RV-9A trying to show my wife
something one the ground on my side of the plane while sucking gas out of
the left tank. Suddenly, the loudest no-sound I ever heard when everything
was quite. Wings level, switch tanks, boost on, the fan started up. My wife
said, "Don't EVER do that again!" I'm leaving my valve as Left/Right/Off. As
far as I'm concerned, this wheel has been invented.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
I'm not so sure ..... but I don't want to be a test pilot!!! The straw
test fails because it isn't like our fuel system at all. Consider
this: I think we all agree that there's no problem in level flight. In
a truly coordinated turn there would be no difference from a level
flight condition due to the dihedral. In a slipping turn if there's
enough 'force' to cause the 'low' tank fuel to move toward the tip, then
the 'high' side has the same force and would (in the absence of engine
fuel flow) have head pressure and would tend to drain toward the low
tank. The reverse would also be true. As long as the engine doesn't
suck more fuel than would flow, then the 'low' port wouldn't 'unport'.
At least that's my reasoning. Show me where I went wrong!
Linn
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