Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:58 AM - Re: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences (Jesse Saint)
2. 06:56 AM - Re: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences (Tim Olson)
3. 07:58 AM - Re: New Year's Price increase (pascal)
4. 08:40 AM - kitlog pro (Bill and Tami Britton)
5. 08:47 AM - Re: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences (pascal)
6. 02:37 PM - Re: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences (DejaVu)
7. 03:23 PM - applying weld-on to vertical surface (tomhanaway)
8. 03:44 PM - Elevator attachment (jfg@aol.com)
9. 05:23 PM - Re: applying weld-on to vertical surface (Lew Gallagher)
10. 05:33 PM - Re: Elevator attachment (Carl Froehlich)
11. 05:36 PM - Re: applying weld-on to vertical surface (John Gonzalez)
12. 11:09 PM - Official RV10-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
13. 11:18 PM - Official RV10-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences |
I think Van's has changed the size and shape of the hole in more
recent kits. Any comments from current builders? I seem to remember
that earlier kits had rectangular holes with radiused corners. Now it
is more egg-shaped (for lack of a better term).
BTW, Happy New Year to all!
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation
jesse@saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 1, 2009, at 1:57 AM, Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Mine was exactly like you mentioned and Tim mentioned as well.
> I filed and opened up the hole to allow proper clearance. It
> probably should not have occurred but it is an easy fix.
>
> Scott Schmidt
> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>
>
> From: Sheldon Olesen <saolesen@sirentel.net>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:37:57 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences
>
> <saolesen@sirentel.net>
>
> I was sitting in my 10 checking out the controls for full travel
> when I was shocked to find that the left aileron was stuck in the
> full up position. I had no indication that the controls had any
> interference. There was no rubbing sound, no tightness in certain
> positions, no squealing metal rubbing together-- it just locked up.
>
> I investigated and found that the shop head of an aileron push rod
> rivet (W-1018 assembly) was stuck forward of the bottom edge of the
> hole where the push rod passes through the rear spar (W-1007A &
> W-1007D) to the aileron. I think the reason this was not discovered
> earlier was that the rivet was the stop for that control surface.
> As it wore, it became more rounded and finally jump the edge of the
> hole and the square edge was solidly stuck forward of the hole.
> The rivet in question was vertical to the hole. I had a similar
> problem with the right aileron push rod except it was the
> manufactured head and it squealed every time it went through the
> hole. It too was vertical. With problems on both sides, I think
> that this may be more than just my problem.
>
> I have since enlarged the holes to eliminate the interferences. For
> anyone still building, I would recommend enlarging the bottom of
> the push rod hole and making sure the rivets are not vertical.
> There maybe interference issues with the outboard side of the hole
> if the rivets are skewed from vertical. For anyone flying, be sure
> to inspect this area for adequate clearance.
>
> I don't recall anyone else having this problem on the list, but
> given the severity of the potential consequences this requires
> another look. I am looking for a first flight around New
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences |
I have heard they changed the hole a bit too... Actually
A couple years ago too. Hopefully for newer kits there
Is no issue....and for old kits it's an easy fix.
As long as clearance is made and people are aware to
Check for it there should be no problem....I'll add it
To the gotcha list.
Tim
On Jan 1, 2009, at 7:55 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
> I think Van's has changed the size and shape of the hole in more
> recent kits. Any comments from current builders? I seem to remember
> that earlier kits had rectangular holes with radiused corners. Now
> it is more egg-shaped (for lack of a better term).
>
> BTW, Happy New Year to all!
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> 352-427-0285
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 1, 2009, at 1:57 AM, Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Mine was exactly like you mentioned and Tim mentioned as well.
>> I filed and opened up the hole to allow proper clearance. It
>> probably should not have occurred but it is an easy fix.
>>
>> Scott Schmidt
>> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>>
>>
>> From: Sheldon Olesen <saolesen@sirentel.net>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:37:57 PM
>> Subject: RV10-List: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences
>>
>> >
>>
>> I was sitting in my 10 checking out the controls for full travel
>> when I was shocked to find that the left aileron was stuck in the
>> full up position. I had no indication that the controls had any
>> interference. There was no rubbing sound, no tightness in certain
>> positions, no squealing metal rubbing together-- it just locked up.
>>
>> I investigated and found that the shop head of an aileron push rod
>> rivet (W-1018 assembly) was stuck forward of the bottom edge of the
>> hole where the push rod passes through the rear spar (W-1007A &
>> W-1007D) to the aileron. I think the reason this was not
>> discovered earlier was that the rivet was the stop for that control
>> surface. As it wore, it became more rounded and finally jump the
>> edge of the hole and the square edge was solidly stuck forward of
>> the hole. The rivet in question was vertical to the hole. I had
>> a similar problem with the right aileron push rod except it was the
>> manufactured head and it squealed every time it went through the
>> hole. It too was vertical. With problems on both sides, I think
>> that this may be more than just my problem.
>>
>> I have since enlarged the holes to eliminate the interferences.
>> For anyone still building, I would recommend enlarging the bottom
>> of the push rod hole and making sure the rivets are not vertical.
>> There maybe interference issues with the outboard side of the hole
>> if the rivets are skewed from vertical. For anyone flying, be
>> sure to inspect this area for adequate clearance.
>>
>> I don't recall anyone else having this problem on the list, but
>> given the severity of the potential consequences this requires
>> another look. I am looking for a first flight around New
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: New Year's Price increase |
New prices on page 14
http://www.vansaircraft.info/Download_rvator.htm
Happy new year!
Pascal
From: pascal
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:55 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: New Year's Price increase
found a brochure from 2006
increase from 06-07
Tailcone $65
Wings $190
Fusellage $440
Finish $ 230
07-08
Tailcone $125
Wings $245
Fusellage $815
Finish $ 310
Pascal
From: pascal
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: New Year's Price increase
you can call Van's and ask if they know yet. I think it's usually around
3% or so
To give you a comparison, increase last year (2007-2008) which may not
apply again this year
I think Van's made some changes to the fusellage that resulted in the
large increase, I don't have the 2006 pricing to compare how much that
kit went up in 2007 from 2006.
Pascal
From: Kelly McMullen
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 6:32 AM
Subject: RV10-List: New Year's Price increase
I know Van's set Jan 1 for next price adjustment. Has anything been
announced as to how much the increase might be? Not quite ready to order
next kit, but if the difference is big enough, might anyway.
title="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
title="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
to follow link"
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 4
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OK. I know this is not airplane related (atleast not directly) but for
those of you out there using kitlog pro I'm having trouble with it
posting to the internet. I'm using windows xp and when I click on the
post to internet button the program acts just like it should and
immediately states that the records have been posted successfully. (No
progress bar or anything--the "records posted successfully" window
immediately pops up.) However, they are not on the website. I've
e-mailed support and talked with them quite a bit but none of their
solutions seem to work.
Anybody got any ideas? Has anyone else run into this problem?
By the way, I have backed up the log and completely uninstalled and
re-installed the software only to have the same results.
Thanks in advance,
Bill
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences |
I looked at my W-1008 as it comes out of the rear spar and it moves
without an issue (4/2008 wing kit). You are correct that it is more of a
oval- like an upside-down "L\" (larger/wider side on top of wing) hole
that is radiused than a rectangular.
One item I do recall about this section was that the push rod does move
in as the aileron is extended and if there is a long enough shop head it
would rub the A-1007 sooner, I recall that the distance the aileron
needed to deflect down, however made it that this shouldn't be a real
issue once the ailerons are fully rigged, nevertheless commenting on the
only issue I see with my setup.
Pascal
From: Jesse Saint
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 5:55 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences
I think Van's has changed the size and shape of the hole in more recent
kits. Any comments from current builders? I seem to remember that
earlier kits had rectangular holes with radiused corners. Now it is
more egg-shaped (for lack of a better term).
BTW, Happy New Year to all!
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation
jesse@saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 1, 2009, at 1:57 AM, Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Mine was exactly like you mentioned and Tim mentioned as well.
I filed and opened up the hole to allow proper clearance. It probably
should not have occurred but it is an easy fix.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Sheldon Olesen <saolesen@sirentel.net>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:37:57 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences
<saolesen@sirentel.net>
I was sitting in my 10 checking out the controls for full travel when
I was shocked to find that the left aileron was stuck in the full up
position. I had no indication that the controls had any interference.
There was no rubbing sound, no tightness in certain positions, no
squealing metal rubbing together-- it just locked up.
I investigated and found that the shop head of an aileron push rod
rivet (W-1018 assembly) was stuck forward of the bottom edge of the hole
where the push rod passes through the rear spar (W-1007A & W-1007D) to
the aileron. I think the reason this was not discovered earlier was
that the rivet was the stop for that control surface. As it wore, it
became more rounded and finally jump the edge of the hole and the square
edge was solidly stuck forward of the hole. The rivet in question was
vertical to the hole. I had a similar problem with the right aileron
push rod except it was the manufactured head and it squealed every time
it went through the hole. It too was vertical. With problems on both
sides, I think that this may be more than just my problem.
I have since enlarged the holes to eliminate the interferences. For
anyone still building, I would recommend enlarging the bottom of the
push rod hole and making sure the rivets are not vertical. There maybe
interference issues with the outboard side of the hole if the rivets are
skewed from vertical. For anyone flying, be sure to inspect this area
for adequate clearance.
I don't recall anyone else having this problem on the list, but given
the severity of the potential consequences this requires another look.
I am looking for a first flight around New
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences |
Just to clarify Sheldon'ts original email... Those rivets on the aeil push
rods were never itended to be used as control surface stops.
Anh
> I have heard they changed the hole a bit too... Actually
> A couple years ago too. Hopefully for newer kits there
> Is no issue....and for old kits it's an easy fix.
> As long as clearance is made and people are aware to
> Check for it there should be no problem....I'll add it
> To the gotcha list.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On Jan 1, 2009, at 7:55 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
>
>> I think Van's has changed the size and shape of the hole in more
>> recent kits. Any comments from current builders? I seem to remember
>> that earlier kits had rectangular holes with radiused corners. Now
>> it is more egg-shaped (for lack of a better term).
>>
>> BTW, Happy New Year to all!
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>> Saint Aviation
>> jesse@saintaviation.com
>> 352-427-0285
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 1, 2009, at 1:57 AM, Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Mine was exactly like you mentioned and Tim mentioned as well.
>>> I filed and opened up the hole to allow proper clearance. It
>>> probably should not have occurred but it is an easy fix.
>>>
>>> Scott Schmidt
>>> scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Sheldon Olesen <saolesen@sirentel.net>
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:37:57 PM
>>> Subject: RV10-List: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> I was sitting in my 10 checking out the controls for full travel
>>> when I was shocked to find that the left aileron was stuck in the
>>> full up position. I had no indication that the controls had any
>>> interference. There was no rubbing sound, no tightness in certain
>>> positions, no squealing metal rubbing together-- it just locked up.
>>>
>>> I investigated and found that the shop head of an aileron push rod
>>> rivet (W-1018 assembly) was stuck forward of the bottom edge of the
>>> hole where the push rod passes through the rear spar (W-1007A &
>>> W-1007D) to the aileron. I think the reason this was not
>>> discovered earlier was that the rivet was the stop for that control
>>> surface. As it wore, it became more rounded and finally jump the
>>> edge of the hole and the square edge was solidly stuck forward of
>>> the hole. The rivet in question was vertical to the hole. I had
>>> a similar problem with the right aileron push rod except it was the
>>> manufactured head and it squealed every time it went through the
>>> hole. It too was vertical. With problems on both sides, I think
>>> that this may be more than just my problem.
>>>
>>> I have since enlarged the holes to eliminate the interferences.
>>> For anyone still building, I would recommend enlarging the bottom
>>> of the push rod hole and making sure the rivets are not vertical.
>>> There maybe interference issues with the outboard side of the hole
>>> if the rivets are skewed from vertical. For anyone flying, be
>>> sure to inspect this area for adequate clearance.
>>>
>>> I don't recall anyone else having this problem on the list, but
>>> given the severity of the potential consequences this requires
>>> another look. I am looking for a first flight around New
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | applying weld-on to vertical surface |
Without getting into a weld-on war, it appears that one of the difficulties is
that the weld-on tends to run/drip on vertical surfaces like the rear windows
or door windows (if installed with door attached to cabin top).
Would it help to put the sealant on the window itself rather than the cabin top?
This way the acrylic window could be laid flat, sealant put on in taped off
area of window with minimal dripping, and then placed into the cabin top joggles.
Still would be runoff/drip at this point but might work better??
Thoughts??
Thanks in advance,
Tom Hanaway
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222256#222256
Message 8
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| Subject: | Elevator attachment |
OK... It seems like the closer I get to setting this beast on wheels, the mo
re questions I have! =C2-I was attaching the elevators to the horizontal s
tabilizer (HS) this morning, and of course some adjustment was needed to est
ablish the 1/8" gap between the elevator counterweight arm of the elevator a
nd the side edge of the HS... nor surprise there, as it's not a perfect worl
d, and the manual said to expect it. =C2-I had two choices to make the adj
ustment: =C2-1) tighten the inboard rod end bearing (REB) or 2) loosen the
outboard REB. =C2-Because there was no clearance to tighten (shorten) the
inboard REB, I loosened the outboard REB in several increments. =C2-By th
e time I achieved a gap that did not rub the counterweight arm against the H
S end, I had extended the recommended 7/8" dimension between the centerline
of the bearing and the forward face of the forward elevator spar to about 1-
1/32". =C2-Everywhere else I've read about the REBs says that half the thr
eads must be inserted into the nut/plate, and this is far=C2-less than hal
f of the threads.
Has anyone else encountered this, and, if so, what did you do about it? =C2
-Or should I not be concerned with this amount of exposed thread in THIS l
ocation as long as I tighten the jam nut appropriately? =C2-It would almos
t seem that a longer REB is called for than what is provided in the kit...
Jim Gilmore, #40317
Legacy wings/empennage/fuse complete except for final assembly and cabin cov
er hell....
... and
of course engine/avionics...
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: applying weld-on to vertical surface |
Hey Tom,
I like weld-on and had no problem with it. It is really tough stuff. I made a
small spatula out of scrap door trimming, spread a layer of weld-on on BOTH surfaces
(plexi and fiberglass) -- spread, it doesn't run -- and immediately (it
starts to skin really quickly) mated them. I only used enough pressure to get
any bubbles out -- it is a contact adhesive, not a pressure one. I used straps
with styrofoam, no clamps, and got no cracks or hazing whatsoever. You can't
dawdle, at least in the summer heat, or it will set up in your container
before you can apply it. Spread, it doesn't set as quickly, same as any epoxy.
Then after it was well cured, I ground about an inch wide shallow overlapping 1/2
inch each on the fiberglass and plexi around the whole perimiter. Just deep
enough to lay in a layer of glass cloth to cover/fill/bond the joint so that
there will be no cracking of the paint as it later heats and cools in the sun.
I did this on doors, windows, and windshield. I have pictures I've previously
posted of this, and as soon as it warms up to 60 here, I should have painted pictures
also.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting when it's 60+ degrees!
Piddling with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222275#222275
Message 10
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| Subject: | Elevator attachment |
Jim,
Recommend stopping and taking a look at what is going on. Anything not
real close to the 7/8=9D spec on the rod end bearing is a red
flag.
I just helped a neighbor mount the his tail today. We ended up with the
left elevator at exactly 7/8=9D on the rod end bearings, and the
right elevator at =C2=BD turn less than 7/8=9D. The reason for
the difference was to make the elevator to HS gap exactly the same on
each side.
Recommend going back to the 7/8=9D spec on one elevator and then
measuring the gap between the elevator and the HS at the most inboard
location and the most outboard location. The easiest way to do this is
to make a line between two aft outboard and two aft inboard rivets on
the HS, and then a line on the corresponding rivets on the elevator.
With the elevator clamped in the trail position, measure between the two
lines. You should find both measurements to be about 1 19/32=9D.
If they are exactly the same, then you know the elevator is mounted
parallel to the HS. Do the same process with the right elevator,
starting at 7/8=9D on the rod end bearings and adjusting (1/2 turn
or so on each on) to get the same gap measurement that you did on the
left elevator. Photo of the outboard gap measurement lines attached.
The objective is to get the elevators parallel the HS rear spar. If you
counterweight is made correctly, this you give you close to the
1/8=9D gap. If you don=99t have a 1/8=9D gap,
don=99t try to get it by adjusting the rod end bearings =93
keep the elevator parallel the HS spar. You may need to drill out the
counterbalance rivets, adjust and then replace the rivets to get the
1/8=9D gap.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (450 hrs_
RV-10 (fuselage wiring)
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jfg@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 6:43 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Elevator attachment
OK... It seems like the closer I get to setting this beast on wheels,
the more questions I have! I was attaching the elevators to the
horizontal stabilizer (HS) this morning, and of course some adjustment
was needed to establish the 1/8" gap between the elevator counterweight
arm of the elevator and the side edge of the HS... nor surprise there,
as it's not a perfect world, and the manual said to expect it. I had
two choices to make the adjustment: 1) tighten the inboard rod end
bearing (REB) or 2) loosen the outboard REB. Because there was no
clearance to tighten (shorten) the inboard REB, I loosened the outboard
REB in several increments. By the time I achieved a gap that did not
rub the counterweight arm against the HS end, I had extended the
recommended 7/8" dimension between the centerline of the bearing and the
forward face of the forward elevator spar to about 1-1/32". Everywhere
else I've read about the REBs says that half the threads must be
inserted into the nut/plate, and this is far less than half of the
threads.
Has anyone else encountered this, and, if so, what did you do about it?
Or should I not be concerned with this amount of exposed thread in THIS
location as lon g as I tighten the jam nut appropriately? It would
almost seem that a longer REB is called for than what is provided in the
kit...
Jim Gilmore, #40317
Legacy wings/empennage/fuse complete except for final assembly and cabin
cover hell....
... and of course engine/avionics...
_____
See which stars were naughty and nice this holiday season with the
PopEater Toolbar. Get
<http://toolbar.aol.com/popeater/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000019
> it now!
Message 11
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| Subject: | applying weld-on to vertical surface |
Tape the inside surface of the window=2C apply weldon to both the cabin top
flange and the window=2C place window in place on the cabin top=2C apply c
leceos and then pull the tape. Remove all weld on strings from the inside o
f the window with rag and what ever solvent you are comfortable with=2C me
=2C (DA). Any stuff not removed become permanent=2C fast. You will be left
with an ugly glue joint on the inside of the plane...either buy those fiber
glass window gap seals or be handy with a caulking gun and proseal or other
colored sealer. I used proseal as my cabin top interior is painted with ch
arcoal zolatone. BTW- one needs about two weeks for the stink of the prosea
l to go away before working on the inside of the aircraft.John> Subject: RV
10-List: applying weld-on to vertical surface> From: tomhanaway@comcast.net
> Date: Thu=2C 1 Jan 2009 15:20:25 -0800> To: rv10-list@matronics.com> > --
hout getting into a weld-on war=2C it appears that one of the difficulties
is that the weld-on tends to run/drip on vertical surfaces like the rear wi
ndows or door windows (if installed with door attached to cabin top).> > Wo
uld it help to put the sealant on the window itself rather than the cabin t
op? This way the acrylic window could be laid flat=2C sealant put on in tap
ed off area of window with minimal dripping=2C and then placed into the cab
in top joggles. Still would be runoff/drip at this point but might work bet
ter??> > Thoughts??> > Thanks in advance=2C> Tom Hanaway> > > > > Read this
topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222256
> > >
Message 12
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| Subject: | Official RV10-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the RV10-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete RV10-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV10-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains RV10-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the RV10-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the RV10-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
rv10-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "rv10-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the RV10-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the RV10-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rv10-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all RV10-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the RV10-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* RV10-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the RV10-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* RV10-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* RV10-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* RV10-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the RV10-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* RV10-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the RV10-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the RV10-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?RV10
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RV10-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV10-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RV10-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RV10-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV10-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Official RV10-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the RV10-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
RV10-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV10-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RV10-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV10-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RV10-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RV10-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV10-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Other Matronics Email List Services
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