Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:21 AM - Re: rivethead door block installation help (pascal)
2. 07:38 AM - Re: rivethead door block installation help (pascal)
3. 08:12 AM - Re: rivethead door block installation help (Ben Westfall)
4. 08:42 AM - Re: Audio Jacks (johngoodman)
5. 08:48 AM - Re: rivethead door block installation help (pascal)
6. 11:38 AM - Re: Re: Audio Jacks (SteinAir, Inc.)
7. 03:26 PM - Re: Re: Audio Jacks (Chris)
8. 04:43 PM - Re: Audio Jacks (johngoodman)
9. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: Audio Jacks (pascal)
10. 08:38 PM - EFIS - Dual screen AFS advanced deck (n277dl)
11. 09:07 PM - Re: EFIS - Dual screen AFS advanced deck (Rick Sked)
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| Subject: | Re: rivethead door block installation help |
From: pascal
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help
Ben;
with my ends basically are .050 passed the blocks/ close to flush with
the seals where the round tip is protruding. I go through the fusellage
about half-way of the magnetic pin in the closed position. I'll confirm
this weekend.
I'll need to measure the blocks but I estimate that there is a fair
amount that gets removed to fit when I put the delrin (stock) blocks
next to the aftermarket blocks. I have the Iflyrv10 version.
Pascal
From: Ben Westfall
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:33 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help
So when you latch the door to the locked position do your door pins
protrude through the aluminum of the fuselage or are they only in the
receiver blocks?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Ben, I installed the rivethead pins and blocks. I trimed the tubes so
the magnetic head protruded about .050 past the delrin block on the
doors, then I machined the back off the receiver blocks until I had
the proper clearance for closing the doors, If I remeber correctly, I
machined about 0.100 off of each receiver blocks.
-Bob Newman
My question for those of you that have installed the rivethead-aero
door blocks. How did you make them fit?
I've trimmed the door pin tubing flush at the base of van's angle cut
so the ends are square to accept the threaded magnetic tip. With the
door handle completely retracted the tips still stick out past the
delrin guide blocks on the doors. There is barely enough clearance
between the retracted door pins and the fiberglass top w/o the rivethead
blocks installed.
I don't want to trim the door pins any shorter or they won't protrude
through the holes in the fuselage door frame very much. I'd assume for
strength reasons you really want the closing force on the door pin
tubing not the threaded in tip. I can thin the rivethead blocks down
50% or so but I'd bet they would still be too wide to get past the pins.
Curious what others have done?
-Ben Westfall
#40579
I have to say the doors are a boat load of work that never ends.
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| Subject: | Re: rivethead door block installation help |
Ben;
The magnetic pin is more like 1/8 past the fusellage in the closed
position.
1/16 past the door in the opened position
it's easier to cut the rod than file down the blocks. I cut about 1 inch
off my rods to fit the 48/64 pins as starting reference for you.
Pascal
From: pascal
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help
Ben;
with my ends basically are .050 passed the blocks/ close to flush with
the seals where the round tip is protruding. I go through the fusellage
about half-way of the magnetic pin in the closed position. I'll confirm
this weekend.
I'll need to measure the blocks but I estimate that there is a fair
amount that gets removed to fit when I put the delrin (stock) blocks
next to the aftermarket blocks. I have the Iflyrv10 version.
Pascal
From: Ben Westfall
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:33 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help
So when you latch the door to the locked position do your door pins
protrude through the aluminum of the fuselage or are they only in the
receiver blocks?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Ben, I installed the rivethead pins and blocks. I trimed the tubes so
the magnetic head protruded about .050 past the delrin block on the
doors, then I machined the back off the receiver blocks until I had
the proper clearance for closing the doors, If I remeber correctly, I
machined about 0.100 off of each receiver blocks.
-Bob Newman
My question for those of you that have installed the rivethead-aero
door blocks. How did you make them fit?
I've trimmed the door pin tubing flush at the base of van's angle cut
so the ends are square to accept the threaded magnetic tip. With the
door handle completely retracted the tips still stick out past the
delrin guide blocks on the doors. There is barely enough clearance
between the retracted door pins and the fiberglass top w/o the rivethead
blocks installed.
I don't want to trim the door pins any shorter or they won't protrude
through the holes in the fuselage door frame very much. I'd assume for
strength reasons you really want the closing force on the door pin
tubing not the threaded in tip. I can thin the rivethead blocks down
50% or so but I'd bet they would still be too wide to get past the pins.
Curious what others have done?
-Ben Westfall
#40579
I have to say the doors are a boat load of work that never ends.
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signature database 3755 (20090109) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com -Matt
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| Subject: | rivethead door block installation help |
Thanks for all the responses guys.
I actually spoke w/Van himself a while back about the rivethead door
blocks/pins which is what prompted my question. He looked at them with an
eye of skepticism because he hadn't "done the engineering" on them. He
continued by saying that the door locking design was engineered to spread
the load onto the door pins through the cabin top and frame. The analysis
of the parts when engineering the door mechanisms showed sufficient strength
for the forces that the door would be subject to.
He hadn't looked at the rivethead setup closely so my understanding of what
he was basically saying was I wouldn't install them if they departed from
the original design without doing an engineering analysis of their strength.
For legality reasons I'm sure he wouldn't say "yeah they are fine". I think
he wanted to make sure that the strength of the door closing mechanism
should come from the pins passing through the cabin top and frame.
I wanted to make sure that after installing the blocks that the door pins
would still pass all the way through so the load of the door pins was still
on the cabin top and frame and not just applied to just the two AN3 bolts
that will hold the door blocks on. I think that was Van's fear with the
product. Who knows if the shear strength of the AN3 bolts is sufficient w/o
proper research? Also is the threaded in tip just as strong as the rod end?
It's always prudent to look at any modification with an eye towards "does
this modify the engineering intent of the design?". I'm not qualified to
answer that so I'm overly paranoid about modifications sometimes.
-Ben
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pascal
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help
Ben;
The magnetic pin is more like 1/8 past the fusellage in the closed position.
1/16 past the door in the opened position
it's easier to cut the rod than file down the blocks. I cut about 1 inch off
my rods to fit the 48/64 pins as starting reference for you.
Pascal
From: pascal <mailto:pascal@rv10builder.net>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help
Ben;
with my ends basically are .050 passed the blocks/ close to flush with the
seals where the round tip is protruding. I go through the fusellage about
half-way of the magnetic pin in the closed position. I'll confirm this
weekend.
I'll need to measure the blocks but I estimate that there is a fair amount
that gets removed to fit when I put the delrin (stock) blocks next to the
aftermarket blocks. I have the Iflyrv10 version.
Pascal
From: Ben Westfall <mailto:rv10@sinkrate.com>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:33 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help
So when you latch the door to the locked position do your door pins protrude
through the aluminum of the fuselage or are they only in the receiver
blocks?
_____
Ben, I installed the rivethead pins and blocks. I trimed the tubes so the
magnetic head protruded about .050 past the delrin block on the doors,
then I machined the back off the receiver blocks until I had the proper
clearance for closing the doors, If I remeber correctly, I machined about
0.100 off of each receiver blocks.
-Bob Newman
My question for those of you that have installed the rivethead-aero door
blocks. How did you make them fit?
I've trimmed the door pin tubing flush at the base of van's angle cut so the
ends are square to accept the threaded magnetic tip. With the door handle
completely retracted the tips still stick out past the delrin guide blocks
on the doors. There is barely enough clearance between the retracted door
pins and the fiberglass top w/o the rivethead blocks installed.
I don't want to trim the door pins any shorter or they won't protrude
through the holes in the fuselage door frame very much. I'd assume for
strength reasons you really want the closing force on the door pin tubing
not the threaded in tip. I can thin the rivethead blocks down 50% or so but
I'd bet they would still be too wide to get past the pins.
Curious what others have done?
-Ben Westfall
#40579
I have to say the doors are a boat load of work that never ends.
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database 3755 (20090109) __________
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Bob,
Your suggestions are exactly what I've done. Wires are soldered and pulled to the
"rats nest" under the rudder pedals. The actual panel avionics are still a
dream until I do some big buying at Sun 'n fun. Can anybody suggest a way to test
my new soldered jacks without any avionics?
My Finish Kit is on it's way via ABF and my upholstery from Abby shipped Friday.
Avionics and Engine choices to go.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit is on it's way.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223863#223863
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| Subject: | Re: rivethead door block installation help |
I agree that having the frame as the core for the strength is key. The
blocks will add an extra measure of strength which would avoid the
threaded part from really being stressed/bent, per se.
One thing I am rather certain about, the mag tips will help with the
rear not closing correctly, an issue that resulted in many door issues
using the stock setup.
I am talking off of thought and not fact BTW, I still need to get the
door fully installed and tested to assure all is as I'm thinking, but I
expect it will be.
Let me know if you need any other guidance and I'll focus my build
around this section for you.
Pascal
From: Ben Westfall
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 8:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help
Thanks for all the responses guys.
I actually spoke w/Van himself a while back about the rivethead door
blocks/pins which is what prompted my question. He looked at them with
an eye of skepticism because he hadn't "done the engineering" on them.
He continued by saying that the door locking design was engineered to
spread the load onto the door pins through the cabin top and frame. The
analysis of the parts when engineering the door mechanisms showed
sufficient strength for the forces that the door would be subject to.
He hadn't looked at the rivethead setup closely so my understanding of
what he was basically saying was I wouldn't install them if they
departed from the original design without doing an engineering analysis
of their strength. For legality reasons I'm sure he wouldn't say "yeah
they are fine". I think he wanted to make sure that the strength of the
door closing mechanism should come from the pins passing through the
cabin top and frame.
I wanted to make sure that after installing the blocks that the door
pins would still pass all the way through so the load of the door pins
was still on the cabin top and frame and not just applied to just the
two AN3 bolts that will hold the door blocks on. I think that was Van's
fear with the product. Who knows if the shear strength of the AN3 bolts
is sufficient w/o proper research? Also is the threaded in tip just as
strong as the rod end?
It's always prudent to look at any modification with an eye towards
"does this modify the engineering intent of the design?". I'm not
qualified to answer that so I'm overly paranoid about modifications
sometimes.
-Ben
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pascal
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help
Ben;
The magnetic pin is more like 1/8 past the fusellage in the closed
position.
1/16 past the door in the opened position
it's easier to cut the rod than file down the blocks. I cut about 1 inch
off my rods to fit the 48/64 pins as starting reference for you.
Pascal
From: pascal
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help
Ben;
with my ends basically are .050 passed the blocks/ close to flush with
the seals where the round tip is protruding. I go through the fusellage
about half-way of the magnetic pin in the closed position. I'll confirm
this weekend.
I'll need to measure the blocks but I estimate that there is a fair
amount that gets removed to fit when I put the delrin (stock) blocks
next to the aftermarket blocks. I have the Iflyrv10 version.
Pascal
From: Ben Westfall
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:33 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help
So when you latch the door to the locked position do your door pins
protrude through the aluminum of the fuselage or are they only in the
receiver blocks?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Ben, I installed the rivethead pins and blocks. I trimed the tubes so
the magnetic head protruded about .050 past the delrin block on the
doors, then I machined the back off the receiver blocks until I had
the proper clearance for closing the doors, If I remeber correctly, I
machined about 0.100 off of each receiver blocks.
-Bob Newman
My question for those of you that have installed the rivethead-aero
door blocks. How did you make them fit?
I've trimmed the door pin tubing flush at the base of van's angle cut
so the ends are square to accept the threaded magnetic tip. With the
door handle completely retracted the tips still stick out past the
delrin guide blocks on the doors. There is barely enough clearance
between the retracted door pins and the fiberglass top w/o the rivethead
blocks installed.
I don't want to trim the door pins any shorter or they won't protrude
through the holes in the fuselage door frame very much. I'd assume for
strength reasons you really want the closing force on the door pin
tubing not the threaded in tip. I can thin the rivethead blocks down
50% or so but I'd bet they would still be too wide to get past the pins.
Curious what others have done?
-Ben Westfall
#40579
I have to say the doors are a boat load of work that never ends.
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 3755 (20090109) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List Web Forums!
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com -Matt
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
Message 6
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Hi John,
Keep in mind that it might be wise to purchase at least the Garmin equipment
before SnF, as their yearly price increases are almost always put into
effect here before too long....
Cheers,
Stein
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of johngoodman
>Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:42 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Re: Audio Jacks
>
>
>
>Bob,
>Your suggestions are exactly what I've done. Wires are soldered
>and pulled to the "rats nest" under the rudder pedals. The actual
>panel avionics are still a dream until I do some big buying at Sun
>'n fun. Can anybody suggest a way to test my new soldered jacks
>without any avionics?
>
>My Finish Kit is on it's way via ABF and my upholstery from Abby
>shipped Friday. Avionics and Engine choices to go.
>
>John
>
>--------
>#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit is on it's way.
>N711JG reserved
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223863#223863
>
>
Message 7
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How about a price decrease to match my mutual fund/ 401K/ GE stock/unleaded
gas/ house/etc.?? Wouldn't they want to move some product? Show special?
-Chris
#40072
----- Original Message -----
From: "SteinAir, Inc." <stein@steinair.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:34 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Audio Jacks
>
> Hi John,
>
> Keep in mind that it might be wise to purchase at least the Garmin
> equipment
> before SnF, as their yearly price increases are almost always put into
> effect here before too long....
>
> Cheers,
> Stein
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of johngoodman
>>Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:42 AM
>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RV10-List: Re: Audio Jacks
>>
>>
>>
>>Bob,
>>Your suggestions are exactly what I've done. Wires are soldered
>>and pulled to the "rats nest" under the rudder pedals. The actual
>>panel avionics are still a dream until I do some big buying at Sun
>>'n fun. Can anybody suggest a way to test my new soldered jacks
>>without any avionics?
>>
>>My Finish Kit is on it's way via ABF and my upholstery from Abby
>>shipped Friday. Avionics and Engine choices to go.
>>
>>John
>>
>>--------
>>#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit is on it's way.
>>N711JG reserved
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223863#223863
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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I don't know about Garmin stuff - I'm not sure I want to go down that road. Everything
they have is too pricey and they really treated me like a leper at Oshkosh.
The minute I mentioned that a GNS430W was good enough and does it integrate
with other brands, he started looking over my shoulder....
It kind of reminds me of Microsoft. Bose is another that seems to think that they
only excrete in clean, cellophane bags pre-tied with pretty pink ribbons.
I'll look but I'll view any price increase as an opportunity to go elsewhere.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit is on it's way.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223943#223943
Message 9
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Problem is Garmin is sort of the only one that has a decent GPS/NAV/COM that
intergrates with the AFS EFIS, if you know of better options, I sure am
interested.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 4:41 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Audio Jacks
>
> I don't know about Garmin stuff - I'm not sure I want to go down that
> road. Everything they have is too pricey and they really treated me like a
> leper at Oshkosh. The minute I mentioned that a GNS430W was good enough
> and does it integrate with other brands, he started looking over my
> shoulder....
> It kind of reminds me of Microsoft. Bose is another that seems to think
> that they only excrete in clean, cellophane bags pre-tied with pretty pink
> ribbons.
>
> I'll look but I'll view any price increase as an opportunity to go
> elsewhere.
>
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit is on it's way.
> N711JG reserved
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223943#223943
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | EFIS - Dual screen AFS advanced deck |
Hey folks,
I was playing around with xpanel panel design tool and it looks like it will
be tight to get a set of Advanced Deck screens side by side on the stock -10 panel
without pushing the com/gps/avionics stack to the right of center. I've
seen a couple post from Rob H that shows his panel and it looks like they will
fit, just snugly. (I'm assuming Rob is flying with the larger Advanced Deck
in his 10)
So, just curious with those that are flying with dual/triple screen efis's... is
it a big deal that the avionics stack is pushed off center? If you were doing
it again, would you keep the dual screens side by side (and/or stacked) or
would you split them up and move one screen to the right side and only fly with
the one screen in front of you?
I'm flying with a Dynon d10 in the 7A and of course without the moving map I want
the 430 close.
Won't I still need to have easy access to the 430 for IFR approaches/flight plans,
etc.
Hope to finish up the baffles/cowl tomorrow. Going to have to get off the fence
and decide on avionics soon to keep this thing moving forward...
--------
Doug
"Fools" are always more creative than process people and will always
find ways to ruin a perfectly good set of processes.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223990#223990
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: EFIS - Dual screen AFS advanced deck |
Doug,
I'm not sure you can get it to work with the stock panel. Heres mine with an aftermarket
panel and two 3500's. Stein sells one that will work though I'm sure.
This picture was well over a year ago, lots more airplane around it now.
Rick Sked
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "n277dl" <dljinia@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 8:34:58 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles
Subject: RV10-List: EFIS - Dual screen AFS advanced deck
Hey folks,
I was playing around with xpanel panel design tool and it looks like it will
be tight to get a set of Advanced Deck screens side by side on the stock -10 panel
without pushing the com/gps/avionics stack to the right of center. I've
seen a couple post from Rob H that shows his panel and it looks like they will
fit, just snugly. (I'm assuming Rob is flying with the larger Advanced Deck
in his 10)
So, just curious with those that are flying with dual/triple screen efis's... is
it a big deal that the avionics stack is pushed off center? If you were doing
it again, would you keep the dual screens side by side (and/or stacked) or
would you split them up and move one screen to the right side and only fly with
the one screen in front of you?
I'm flying with a Dynon d10 in the 7A and of course without the moving map I want
the 430 close.
Won't I still need to have easy access to the 430 for IFR approaches/flight plans,
etc.
Hope to finish up the baffles/cowl tomorrow. Going to have to get off the fence
and decide on avionics soon to keep this thing moving forward...
--------
Doug
"Fools" are always more creative than process people and will always
find ways to ruin a perfectly good set of processes.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223990#223990
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