---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/10/09: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:21 AM - Re: rivethead door block installation help (pascal) 2. 07:38 AM - Re: rivethead door block installation help (pascal) 3. 08:12 AM - Re: rivethead door block installation help (Ben Westfall) 4. 08:42 AM - Re: Audio Jacks (johngoodman) 5. 08:48 AM - Re: rivethead door block installation help (pascal) 6. 11:38 AM - Re: Re: Audio Jacks (SteinAir, Inc.) 7. 03:26 PM - Re: Re: Audio Jacks (Chris) 8. 04:43 PM - Re: Audio Jacks (johngoodman) 9. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: Audio Jacks (pascal) 10. 08:38 PM - EFIS - Dual screen AFS advanced deck (n277dl) 11. 09:07 PM - Re: EFIS - Dual screen AFS advanced deck (Rick Sked) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:35 AM PST US From: "pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help From: pascal Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:59 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help Ben; with my ends basically are .050 passed the blocks/ close to flush with the seals where the round tip is protruding. I go through the fusellage about half-way of the magnetic pin in the closed position. I'll confirm this weekend. I'll need to measure the blocks but I estimate that there is a fair amount that gets removed to fit when I put the delrin (stock) blocks next to the aftermarket blocks. I have the Iflyrv10 version. Pascal From: Ben Westfall Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:33 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help So when you latch the door to the locked position do your door pins protrude through the aluminum of the fuselage or are they only in the receiver blocks? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Ben, I installed the rivethead pins and blocks. I trimed the tubes so the magnetic head protruded about .050 past the delrin block on the doors, then I machined the back off the receiver blocks until I had the proper clearance for closing the doors, If I remeber correctly, I machined about 0.100 off of each receiver blocks. -Bob Newman My question for those of you that have installed the rivethead-aero door blocks. How did you make them fit? I've trimmed the door pin tubing flush at the base of van's angle cut so the ends are square to accept the threaded magnetic tip. With the door handle completely retracted the tips still stick out past the delrin guide blocks on the doors. There is barely enough clearance between the retracted door pins and the fiberglass top w/o the rivethead blocks installed. I don't want to trim the door pins any shorter or they won't protrude through the holes in the fuselage door frame very much. I'd assume for strength reasons you really want the closing force on the door pin tubing not the threaded in tip. I can thin the rivethead blocks down 50% or so but I'd bet they would still be too wide to get past the pins. Curious what others have done? -Ben Westfall #40579 I have to say the doors are a boat load of work that never ends. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3755 (20090109) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List Web Forums! href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com -Matt href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution =========== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:31 AM PST US From: "pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help Ben; The magnetic pin is more like 1/8 past the fusellage in the closed position. 1/16 past the door in the opened position it's easier to cut the rod than file down the blocks. I cut about 1 inch off my rods to fit the 48/64 pins as starting reference for you. Pascal From: pascal Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:59 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help Ben; with my ends basically are .050 passed the blocks/ close to flush with the seals where the round tip is protruding. I go through the fusellage about half-way of the magnetic pin in the closed position. I'll confirm this weekend. I'll need to measure the blocks but I estimate that there is a fair amount that gets removed to fit when I put the delrin (stock) blocks next to the aftermarket blocks. I have the Iflyrv10 version. Pascal From: Ben Westfall Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:33 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help So when you latch the door to the locked position do your door pins protrude through the aluminum of the fuselage or are they only in the receiver blocks? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Ben, I installed the rivethead pins and blocks. I trimed the tubes so the magnetic head protruded about .050 past the delrin block on the doors, then I machined the back off the receiver blocks until I had the proper clearance for closing the doors, If I remeber correctly, I machined about 0.100 off of each receiver blocks. -Bob Newman My question for those of you that have installed the rivethead-aero door blocks. How did you make them fit? I've trimmed the door pin tubing flush at the base of van's angle cut so the ends are square to accept the threaded magnetic tip. With the door handle completely retracted the tips still stick out past the delrin guide blocks on the doors. There is barely enough clearance between the retracted door pins and the fiberglass top w/o the rivethead blocks installed. I don't want to trim the door pins any shorter or they won't protrude through the holes in the fuselage door frame very much. I'd assume for strength reasons you really want the closing force on the door pin tubing not the threaded in tip. I can thin the rivethead blocks down 50% or so but I'd bet they would still be too wide to get past the pins. Curious what others have done? -Ben Westfall #40579 I have to say the doors are a boat load of work that never ends. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3755 (20090109) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List Web Forums! href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com -Matt href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution =========== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:22 AM PST US From: "Ben Westfall" Subject: RE: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help Thanks for all the responses guys. I actually spoke w/Van himself a while back about the rivethead door blocks/pins which is what prompted my question. He looked at them with an eye of skepticism because he hadn't "done the engineering" on them. He continued by saying that the door locking design was engineered to spread the load onto the door pins through the cabin top and frame. The analysis of the parts when engineering the door mechanisms showed sufficient strength for the forces that the door would be subject to. He hadn't looked at the rivethead setup closely so my understanding of what he was basically saying was I wouldn't install them if they departed from the original design without doing an engineering analysis of their strength. For legality reasons I'm sure he wouldn't say "yeah they are fine". I think he wanted to make sure that the strength of the door closing mechanism should come from the pins passing through the cabin top and frame. I wanted to make sure that after installing the blocks that the door pins would still pass all the way through so the load of the door pins was still on the cabin top and frame and not just applied to just the two AN3 bolts that will hold the door blocks on. I think that was Van's fear with the product. Who knows if the shear strength of the AN3 bolts is sufficient w/o proper research? Also is the threaded in tip just as strong as the rod end? It's always prudent to look at any modification with an eye towards "does this modify the engineering intent of the design?". I'm not qualified to answer that so I'm overly paranoid about modifications sometimes. -Ben _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pascal Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 7:37 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help Ben; The magnetic pin is more like 1/8 past the fusellage in the closed position. 1/16 past the door in the opened position it's easier to cut the rod than file down the blocks. I cut about 1 inch off my rods to fit the 48/64 pins as starting reference for you. Pascal From: pascal Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:59 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help Ben; with my ends basically are .050 passed the blocks/ close to flush with the seals where the round tip is protruding. I go through the fusellage about half-way of the magnetic pin in the closed position. I'll confirm this weekend. I'll need to measure the blocks but I estimate that there is a fair amount that gets removed to fit when I put the delrin (stock) blocks next to the aftermarket blocks. I have the Iflyrv10 version. Pascal From: Ben Westfall Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:33 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help So when you latch the door to the locked position do your door pins protrude through the aluminum of the fuselage or are they only in the receiver blocks? _____ Ben, I installed the rivethead pins and blocks. I trimed the tubes so the magnetic head protruded about .050 past the delrin block on the doors, then I machined the back off the receiver blocks until I had the proper clearance for closing the doors, If I remeber correctly, I machined about 0.100 off of each receiver blocks. -Bob Newman My question for those of you that have installed the rivethead-aero door blocks. How did you make them fit? I've trimmed the door pin tubing flush at the base of van's angle cut so the ends are square to accept the threaded magnetic tip. With the door handle completely retracted the tips still stick out past the delrin guide blocks on the doors. There is barely enough clearance between the retracted door pins and the fiberglass top w/o the rivethead blocks installed. I don't want to trim the door pins any shorter or they won't protrude through the holes in the fuselage door frame very much. I'd assume for strength reasons you really want the closing force on the door pin tubing not the threaded in tip. I can thin the rivethead blocks down 50% or so but I'd bet they would still be too wide to get past the pins. Curious what others have done? -Ben Westfall #40579 I have to say the doors are a boat load of work that never ends. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3755 (20090109) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List Web Forums! href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com -Matt href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution =========== href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3756 (20090110) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:46 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Audio Jacks From: "johngoodman" Bob, Your suggestions are exactly what I've done. Wires are soldered and pulled to the "rats nest" under the rudder pedals. The actual panel avionics are still a dream until I do some big buying at Sun 'n fun. Can anybody suggest a way to test my new soldered jacks without any avionics? My Finish Kit is on it's way via ABF and my upholstery from Abby shipped Friday. Avionics and Engine choices to go. John -------- #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit is on it's way. N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223863#223863 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:01 AM PST US From: "pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help I agree that having the frame as the core for the strength is key. The blocks will add an extra measure of strength which would avoid the threaded part from really being stressed/bent, per se. One thing I am rather certain about, the mag tips will help with the rear not closing correctly, an issue that resulted in many door issues using the stock setup. I am talking off of thought and not fact BTW, I still need to get the door fully installed and tested to assure all is as I'm thinking, but I expect it will be. Let me know if you need any other guidance and I'll focus my build around this section for you. Pascal From: Ben Westfall Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 8:10 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help Thanks for all the responses guys. I actually spoke w/Van himself a while back about the rivethead door blocks/pins which is what prompted my question. He looked at them with an eye of skepticism because he hadn't "done the engineering" on them. He continued by saying that the door locking design was engineered to spread the load onto the door pins through the cabin top and frame. The analysis of the parts when engineering the door mechanisms showed sufficient strength for the forces that the door would be subject to. He hadn't looked at the rivethead setup closely so my understanding of what he was basically saying was I wouldn't install them if they departed from the original design without doing an engineering analysis of their strength. For legality reasons I'm sure he wouldn't say "yeah they are fine". I think he wanted to make sure that the strength of the door closing mechanism should come from the pins passing through the cabin top and frame. I wanted to make sure that after installing the blocks that the door pins would still pass all the way through so the load of the door pins was still on the cabin top and frame and not just applied to just the two AN3 bolts that will hold the door blocks on. I think that was Van's fear with the product. Who knows if the shear strength of the AN3 bolts is sufficient w/o proper research? Also is the threaded in tip just as strong as the rod end? It's always prudent to look at any modification with an eye towards "does this modify the engineering intent of the design?". I'm not qualified to answer that so I'm overly paranoid about modifications sometimes. -Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pascal Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 7:37 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help Ben; The magnetic pin is more like 1/8 past the fusellage in the closed position. 1/16 past the door in the opened position it's easier to cut the rod than file down the blocks. I cut about 1 inch off my rods to fit the 48/64 pins as starting reference for you. Pascal From: pascal Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:59 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help Ben; with my ends basically are .050 passed the blocks/ close to flush with the seals where the round tip is protruding. I go through the fusellage about half-way of the magnetic pin in the closed position. I'll confirm this weekend. I'll need to measure the blocks but I estimate that there is a fair amount that gets removed to fit when I put the delrin (stock) blocks next to the aftermarket blocks. I have the Iflyrv10 version. Pascal From: Ben Westfall Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:33 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: rivethead door block installation help So when you latch the door to the locked position do your door pins protrude through the aluminum of the fuselage or are they only in the receiver blocks? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Ben, I installed the rivethead pins and blocks. I trimed the tubes so the magnetic head protruded about .050 past the delrin block on the doors, then I machined the back off the receiver blocks until I had the proper clearance for closing the doors, If I remeber correctly, I machined about 0.100 off of each receiver blocks. -Bob Newman My question for those of you that have installed the rivethead-aero door blocks. How did you make them fit? I've trimmed the door pin tubing flush at the base of van's angle cut so the ends are square to accept the threaded magnetic tip. With the door handle completely retracted the tips still stick out past the delrin guide blocks on the doors. There is barely enough clearance between the retracted door pins and the fiberglass top w/o the rivethead blocks installed. I don't want to trim the door pins any shorter or they won't protrude through the holes in the fuselage door frame very much. I'd assume for strength reasons you really want the closing force on the door pin tubing not the threaded in tip. I can thin the rivethead blocks down 50% or so but I'd bet they would still be too wide to get past the pins. Curious what others have done? -Ben Westfall #40579 I have to say the doors are a boat load of work that never ends. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3755 (20090109) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List Web Forums! href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com -Matt href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution =========== href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://foru ms.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www .matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht tp://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3756 (20090110) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:38:19 AM PST US From: "SteinAir, Inc." Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Audio Jacks Hi John, Keep in mind that it might be wise to purchase at least the Garmin equipment before SnF, as their yearly price increases are almost always put into effect here before too long.... Cheers, Stein >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of johngoodman >Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:42 AM >To: rv10-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: Re: Audio Jacks > > > >Bob, >Your suggestions are exactly what I've done. Wires are soldered >and pulled to the "rats nest" under the rudder pedals. The actual >panel avionics are still a dream until I do some big buying at Sun >'n fun. Can anybody suggest a way to test my new soldered jacks >without any avionics? > >My Finish Kit is on it's way via ABF and my upholstery from Abby >shipped Friday. Avionics and Engine choices to go. > >John > >-------- >#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit is on it's way. >N711JG reserved > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223863#223863 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:48 PM PST US From: "Chris" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Audio Jacks How about a price decrease to match my mutual fund/ 401K/ GE stock/unleaded gas/ house/etc.?? Wouldn't they want to move some product? Show special? -Chris #40072 ----- Original Message ----- From: "SteinAir, Inc." Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:34 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Audio Jacks > > Hi John, > > Keep in mind that it might be wise to purchase at least the Garmin > equipment > before SnF, as their yearly price increases are almost always put into > effect here before too long.... > > Cheers, > Stein > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of johngoodman >>Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:42 AM >>To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>Subject: RV10-List: Re: Audio Jacks >> >> >> >>Bob, >>Your suggestions are exactly what I've done. Wires are soldered >>and pulled to the "rats nest" under the rudder pedals. The actual >>panel avionics are still a dream until I do some big buying at Sun >>'n fun. Can anybody suggest a way to test my new soldered jacks >>without any avionics? >> >>My Finish Kit is on it's way via ABF and my upholstery from Abby >>shipped Friday. Avionics and Engine choices to go. >> >>John >> >>-------- >>#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit is on it's way. >>N711JG reserved >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223863#223863 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:13 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Audio Jacks From: "johngoodman" I don't know about Garmin stuff - I'm not sure I want to go down that road. Everything they have is too pricey and they really treated me like a leper at Oshkosh. The minute I mentioned that a GNS430W was good enough and does it integrate with other brands, he started looking over my shoulder.... It kind of reminds me of Microsoft. Bose is another that seems to think that they only excrete in clean, cellophane bags pre-tied with pretty pink ribbons. I'll look but I'll view any price increase as an opportunity to go elsewhere. John -------- #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit is on it's way. N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223943#223943 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:22 PM PST US From: "pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Audio Jacks Problem is Garmin is sort of the only one that has a decent GPS/NAV/COM that intergrates with the AFS EFIS, if you know of better options, I sure am interested. -------------------------------------------------- From: "johngoodman" Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 4:41 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Audio Jacks > > I don't know about Garmin stuff - I'm not sure I want to go down that > road. Everything they have is too pricey and they really treated me like a > leper at Oshkosh. The minute I mentioned that a GNS430W was good enough > and does it integrate with other brands, he started looking over my > shoulder.... > It kind of reminds me of Microsoft. Bose is another that seems to think > that they only excrete in clean, cellophane bags pre-tied with pretty pink > ribbons. > > I'll look but I'll view any price increase as an opportunity to go > elsewhere. > > John > > -------- > #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit is on it's way. > N711JG reserved > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223943#223943 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:45 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: EFIS - Dual screen AFS advanced deck From: "n277dl" Hey folks, I was playing around with xpanel panel design tool and it looks like it will be tight to get a set of Advanced Deck screens side by side on the stock -10 panel without pushing the com/gps/avionics stack to the right of center. I've seen a couple post from Rob H that shows his panel and it looks like they will fit, just snugly. (I'm assuming Rob is flying with the larger Advanced Deck in his 10) So, just curious with those that are flying with dual/triple screen efis's... is it a big deal that the avionics stack is pushed off center? If you were doing it again, would you keep the dual screens side by side (and/or stacked) or would you split them up and move one screen to the right side and only fly with the one screen in front of you? I'm flying with a Dynon d10 in the 7A and of course without the moving map I want the 430 close. Won't I still need to have easy access to the 430 for IFR approaches/flight plans, etc. Hope to finish up the baffles/cowl tomorrow. Going to have to get off the fence and decide on avionics soon to keep this thing moving forward... -------- Doug "Fools" are always more creative than process people and will always find ways to ruin a perfectly good set of processes. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223990#223990 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:04 PM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: EFIS - Dual screen AFS advanced deck Doug, I'm not sure you can get it to work with the stock panel. Heres mine with an aftermarket panel and two 3500's. Stein sells one that will work though I'm sure. This picture was well over a year ago, lots more airplane around it now. Rick Sked 40185 do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "n277dl" Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 8:34:58 PM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RV10-List: EFIS - Dual screen AFS advanced deck Hey folks, I was playing around with xpanel panel design tool and it looks like it will be tight to get a set of Advanced Deck screens side by side on the stock -10 panel without pushing the com/gps/avionics stack to the right of center. I've seen a couple post from Rob H that shows his panel and it looks like they will fit, just snugly. (I'm assuming Rob is flying with the larger Advanced Deck in his 10) So, just curious with those that are flying with dual/triple screen efis's... is it a big deal that the avionics stack is pushed off center? If you were doing it again, would you keep the dual screens side by side (and/or stacked) or would you split them up and move one screen to the right side and only fly with the one screen in front of you? I'm flying with a Dynon d10 in the 7A and of course without the moving map I want the 430 close. Won't I still need to have easy access to the 430 for IFR approaches/flight plans, etc. Hope to finish up the baffles/cowl tomorrow. Going to have to get off the fence and decide on avionics soon to keep this thing moving forward... -------- Doug "Fools" are always more creative than process people and will always find ways to ruin a perfectly good set of processes. 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