Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:12 AM - Re: Re: Mistake on the aft deck (Rick Sked)
2. 07:27 AM - Re: Mistake on the aft deck (johngoodman)
3. 09:40 AM - Bucking (Rob Hunter)
4. 10:08 AM - Re: Bucking (Jeff Carpenter)
5. 10:19 AM - Re: Mistake on the aft deck (nukeflyboy)
6. 11:06 AM - Fw: Alternator failure (Bob-tcw)
7. 11:37 AM - Re: Fw: Alternator failure (Tim Olson)
8. 01:48 PM - Re: Fw: Alternator failure (David McNeill)
9. 02:12 PM - Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak) (Sheldon Olesen)
10. 02:37 PM - Re: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak) (David McNeill)
11. 03:12 PM - Re: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak) (Tim Olson)
12. 04:26 PM - Re: Alternator failure (lbgjb10)
13. 04:30 PM - 'do not tow' (lbgjb10)
14. 04:48 PM - Re: Fw: Alternator failure (Kelly McMullen)
15. 04:55 PM - Re: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak) (Kelly McMullen)
16. 05:28 PM - Re: Fw: Alternator failure (David McNeill)
17. 06:35 PM - GRT and G530W (Rob Kermanj)
18. 06:51 PM - Re: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak) (linn Walters)
19. 06:51 PM - dimmer wars (Ben Westfall)
20. 07:02 PM - Re: 'do not tow' (linn Walters)
21. 07:10 PM - Re: Fw: Alternator failure (linn Walters)
22. 07:26 PM - Re: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak) (linn Walters)
23. 07:48 PM - Re: dimmer wars (linn Walters)
24. 07:53 PM - Re: Fw: Alternator failure (Kelly McMullen)
25. 08:09 PM - Re: dimmer wars (Dave Saylor)
26. 08:12 PM - Re: Fw: Alternator failure and experimentals (linn Walters)
27. 08:21 PM - Re: Fw: Alternator failure (linn Walters)
28. 08:39 PM - Re: Fw: Alternator failure and experimentals (Kelly McMullen)
29. 08:48 PM - Re: dimmer wars (Ben Westfall)
30. 08:50 PM - Re: Fw: Alternator failure (Kelly McMullen)
31. 08:50 PM - Re: Fw: Alternator failure and experimentals (David McNeill)
32. 08:52 PM - Re: Fw: Alternator failure (Dj Merrill)
33. 09:12 PM - Re: Fw: Alternator failure (David McNeill)
34. 11:29 PM - Spinner cutout - accounting for prop pitch (AirMike)
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| Subject: | Re: Mistake on the aft deck |
Mike,
If you don't like the AN-3 bolt you will hate the tail cone to main fuselage longeron
connection...there are three of the on each side, counseling may be required
for you to drill those holes and install the bolts to deal with all the
hate you will build up inside!! :)
There is also two AN-3's that hold the stabalizer mount angle to the deck. So Linn,
it's already ugly!! besides the fairing will hide it in the end. Since the
SB came out for the tailcone, I'd bet there are a BUNCH of rivets in that area
on lots of -10's from drilling off the deck and redoing it.
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "AirMike" <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 11:06:09 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Mistake on the aft deck
What - you do not have a perfect plane like I have?????????
The aft deck is very important structurallyvto prevent excessive torsional stress
on the tail feathers.
I am an absolute neophyte here but my suggestions (and I stress they are only my
uneducated suggestions)
1. drill it out and set a #5 rivet there. It will get a clean set, and it will
fill out most of the hole.
2. Add a small doubler plate on top if it does not interfere with the mounting
of the tail feathers. (I do not think that it does there.)
3. I do not like the AN3 bolt suggestion - hole too big - might compromise the
longeron.
4. Finally - ask an A&P or one with an I/A. they do these kind of repairs every
day.
To err is human - but to really screw up you have to be an airplane builder
--------
OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
Q/B Kit - wiring and FWF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226824#226824
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| Subject: | Re: Mistake on the aft deck |
Phil,
An AN3 bolt would work IF you could keep it on the centerline of the longeron.
I would do what AirMike suggested, go to a larger rivet.
Another option would be to go to a #8 screw. Just polish up the unwanted hole a
little with a dremel to get rid of the possible crack starters, drill to a #8
screw, use a large washer on top if you can't stand anybody seeing it, and torque
it with the red colored lock-tite. Screws are much stronger than rivets,
anyway.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit started.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226860#226860
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Hey All,
I am riveting the bottom flange of the fwd and mid fuselage bulkheads.
Page 28-14 steps 1 and 3. What kind of bucking bar did you use to get
under the seat rails? Or is it possible to use a pulled rivet in those
areas? If so what kind of pulled rivet? You think by this stage I
could figure this out!
Rob Hunter
40432
Fuselage
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Hi Rob,
I set the fuse on a back riveting plate and used some shims to be
sure the weight was focused on those rivets, then back riveted using
an "L" shaped rivet set that I bought surplus about 15 years ago.
There are only a few other spots, in my view, that compete with this
one for degree of difficulty... but you can get it done.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Metal Work Complete
Staring the big fiberglass monster in the face
On Jan 26, 2009, at 9:37 AM, Rob Hunter wrote:
>
> Hey All,
> I am riveting the bottom flange of the fwd and mid fuselage bulkheads.
> Page 28-14 steps 1 and 3. What kind of bucking bar did you use to get
> under the seat rails? Or is it possible to use a pulled rivet in
> those
> areas? If so what kind of pulled rivet? You think by this stage I
> could figure this out!
>
> Rob Hunter
> 40432
> Fuselage
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Mistake on the aft deck |
Don't fret too much - we have all done this. The standard method to deal with
it is to go with a larger rivet. Drill it out for an AN5 rivet. If it is still
a really ugly hole, then try an AN6. The rivet will deform and fill the voids
so a somewhat oval hole is OK. The larger rivets have much bigger heads and
will also hid the sin.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB - cabin top/fiberglass hell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226882#226882
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| Subject: | Fw: Alternator failure |
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob-tcw
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 12:19 PM
Subject: Alternator failure
Fellow builders,
I'd like to share a little adventure we had last week and how it may
impact my RV-10 project.
My Dad and I were cruising along at 8500' enroute from PA down to FL in
our Glastar when I noticed an annoying red light on the instrument
panel. That little red light of course was a low voltage warning light,
and sure enough we were on battery power at that point, the alternator
was doing nothing useful at all. We requested a landing at
Charlottesville VA, KCHO and within 15 minutes were on the ground.
They let us bring our airplane inside a heated hangar to sort out our
electrical problems. We'll we got the true southern hospitality
treatment. A mechanic came over and offered us the use of any of his
tools that we needed (although he was way to busy to work on our plane).
We removed the cowling and then the alternator and ohmed out the field
winding of the alternator, it appeared to be an open circuit. The
alternator was a Ford Motorcraft as originally supplied with our 1960's
vintage Lycoming 0-320. (however it had been rebuilt in 2001, and now
had about 350 hours of run time) We asked the mechanic if he had any
recommendations on a place to check and possibly replace our 'Ford'
alternator. He said, "Sure, I'll call Advanced Autoparts, I think they
have an alternator "spinner"". Sure enough, they did. So the mechanic
gave us the keys to his truck and we visited the aviation department of
Advanced Autoparts. Well the alternator was really dead and they
actually had the exact replacement in stock! So $57 later we were back
on our way to the airport. Well we put it all back together and sure
enough we were back in business, the aircraft bus voltage was back up to
14 volts!. We thanked everyone over and over, took on some fuel and
just over 2.5 hours after discovering the problem we were back in the
air. We were incredibly fortunate that day to meet such wonderful
folks as we did at KCHO. But we also really enjoyed the benefits of
building and flying a homebuilt. There is no way that we would have
been able to continue our journey that day if we were flying a certified
aircraft, There were no mechanics that could spend their time working
on our airplane on that day, And almost certainly they would have had
to order a new alternator (that wouldn't have been $57!).
So the lessons learned that I'm going to apply to my RV-10:
1) Low voltage idiot lights work, they are a must have in my book
2) Although we were able to safely make it to an alternate airport on
battery power, a back-up alternator equipped engine really ups the
convenience factor. We were incredibly lucky to get our airplane fixed
and flying again the same day. If we had a back-up alternator and were
flying VFR as we were, we would have probably just continued on our way
to Florida.
3) Bring a decent tool kit, We had the very basic tools in our
airplane tool kit, but I'm now going to add a small DMM (multi-meter)
to the kit.
4) A condensed set of basic wiring schematics for the airplane could
have been a necessity. If the alternator wasn't the problem, I really
would have had a difficult time trouble shooting much more as I was
working completely from memory on how I wired the plane (almost 10 years
ago).
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC.
www.tcwtech.com
RV-10 40176 - finish kit
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Alternator failure |
Great report Bob! Glad it worked out for you.
Regarding your lessons learned:
1) Definitely. Most EFIS's and EIS's will have that in it
these days, so it should be easy to get warnings.
2) You MAY have been able to continue with a backup alternator,
but, for a long x/c trip, it might not be safe or practical.
But, it does bring up the idea of what exactly is a backup
alternator good for.... If you had the SD-8, it wouldn't
really buy you anything for continuing the trip...because
nobody wants to continue a long trip where they only can use
8A worth of equipment. If you had a 20A backup, you'd perhaps
be able to continue more or less unaffected, after shedding some
more minimal loads. That's not saying it's a good idea, but
it makes it more practical than an 8A alternator.
3) Absolutely! I've bought about a dozen of those Harbor
Freight cheap DMM's...it seems every time they go on sale
for $1.99 each, I buy one and give it to someone. I keep
one in my cars, my boat, the plane, the hangar, my desk
at home and work...basically handy everywhere. I even
used one on my first-flight day to find a loose alternator
connection.
4) Yeah, it's a good idea to have that documentation.
When I carry my tablet PC with me, I keep an entire
copy of my websites, and everything, which house all
of my drawings, database updates for my GPS's/EFIS,
software updates, and all that stuff. It's one of the
benefits of tablet PC's over stand-alone units...you
can program a memory card right in the field and fix
something if you need to.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Bob-tcw wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Bob-tcw <mailto:rnewman@tcwtech.com>
> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 26, 2009 12:19 PM
> *Subject:* Alternator failure
>
> Fellow builders,
>
> I'd like to share a little adventure we had last week and how it may
> impact my RV-10 project.
> My Dad and I were cruising along at 8500' enroute from PA down to FL in
> our Glastar when I noticed an annoying red light on the instrument
> panel. That little red light of course was a low voltage warning
> light, and sure enough we were on battery power at that point, the
> alternator was doing nothing useful at all. We requested a landing at
> Charlottesville VA, KCHO and within 15 minutes were on the ground.
> They let us bring our airplane inside a heated hangar to sort out
> our electrical problems. We'll we got the true southern hospitality
> treatment. A mechanic came over and offered us the use of any of his
> tools that we needed (although he was way to busy to work on our
> plane). We removed the cowling and then the alternator and ohmed out
> the field winding of the alternator, it appeared to be an open
> circuit. The alternator was a Ford Motorcraft as originally supplied
> with our 1960's vintage Lycoming 0-320. (however it had been rebuilt in
> 2001, and now had about 350 hours of run time) We asked the mechanic
> if he had any recommendations on a place to check and possibly replace
> our 'Ford' alternator. He said, "Sure, I'll call Advanced Autoparts, I
> think they have an alternator "spinner"". Sure enough, they did. So
> the mechanic gave us the keys to his truck and we visited the aviation
> department of Advanced Autoparts. Well the alternator was really dead
> and they actually had the exact replacement in stock! So $57 later we
> were back on our way to the airport. Well we put it all back together
> and sure enough we were back in business, the aircraft bus voltage
> was back up to 14 volts!. We thanked everyone over and over, took on
> some fuel and just over 2.5 hours after discovering the problem we were
> back in the air. We were incredibly fortunate that day to meet such
> wonderful folks as we did at KCHO. But we also really enjoyed the
> benefits of building and flying a homebuilt. There is no way that we
> would have been able to continue our journey that day if we were flying
> a certified aircraft, There were no mechanics that could spend their
> time working on our airplane on that day, And almost certainly they
> would have had to order a new alternator (that wouldn't have been $57!).
>
> So the lessons learned that I'm going to apply to my RV-10:
> 1) Low voltage idiot lights work, they are a must have in my book
> 2) Although we were able to safely make it to an alternate airport on
> battery power, a back-up alternator equipped engine really ups the
> convenience factor. We were incredibly lucky to get our airplane fixed
> and flying again the same day. If we had a back-up alternator and were
> flying VFR as we were, we would have probably just continued on our way
> to Florida.
> 3) Bring a decent tool kit, We had the very basic tools in our
> airplane tool kit, but I'm now going to add a small DMM (multi-meter)
> to the kit.
> 4) A condensed set of basic wiring schematics for the airplane could
> have been a necessity. If the alternator wasn't the problem, I really
> would have had a difficult time trouble shooting much more as I was
> working completely from memory on how I wired the plane (almost 10 years
> ago).
>
>
>
> Bob Newman
> TCW Technologies, LLC.
> www.tcwtech.com <http://www.tcwtech.com>
> RV-10 40176 - finish kit
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Fw: Alternator failure |
Ditto, except that the mechanics can not work on your airplane. unless your
are carrying a manual for continued airworthiness, most shops will say that
since they do not have the manuals they will lend you the tools but they can
not work on it. Had this happen at the premier FBO at Austin TX airport.
Secondly a backup battery or a backup (vacuum pad driven) alternator is a
must for IFR. And you are correct, the aircraft alternator is $350+
exchange. Lastly my tool box always weighs about 25 pounds which contains
both many tools and critical spare parts, i.e. seviceable spark plugs, extra
regulator, master contactor, start relay, fasteners, washers, tie wraps etc.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob-tcw
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 12:04 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fw: Alternator failure
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob-tcw <mailto:rnewman@tcwtech.com>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 12:19 PM
Subject: Alternator failure
Fellow builders,
I'd like to share a little adventure we had last week and how it may
impact my RV-10 project.
My Dad and I were cruising along at 8500' enroute from PA down to FL in our
Glastar when I noticed an annoying red light on the instrument panel. That
little red light of course was a low voltage warning light, and sure enough
we were on battery power at that point, the alternator was doing nothing
useful at all. We requested a landing at Charlottesville VA, KCHO and
within 15 minutes were on the ground. They let us bring our airplane inside
a heated hangar to sort out our electrical problems. We'll we got the true
southern hospitality treatment. A mechanic came over and offered us the
use of any of his tools that we needed (although he was way to busy to work
on our plane). We removed the cowling and then the alternator and ohmed out
the field winding of the alternator, it appeared to be an open circuit.
The alternator was a Ford Motorcraft as originally supplied with our 1960's
vintage Lycoming 0-320. (however it had been rebuilt in 2001, and now had
about 350 hours of run time) We asked the mechanic if he had any
recommendations on a place to check and possibly replace our 'Ford'
alternator. He said, "Sure, I'll call Advanced Autoparts, I think they have
an alternator "spinner"". Sure enough, they did. So the mechanic gave us
the keys to his truck and we visited the aviation department of Advanced
Autoparts. Well the alternator was really dead and they actually had the
exact replacement in stock! So $57 later we were back on our way to the
airport. Well we put it all back together and sure enough we were back in
business, the aircraft bus voltage was back up to 14 volts!. We thanked
everyone over and over, took on some fuel and just over 2.5 hours after
discovering the problem we were back in the air. We were incredibly
fortunate that day to meet such wonderful folks as we did at KCHO. But we
also really enjoyed the benefits of building and flying a homebuilt.
There is no way that we would have been able to continue our journey that
day if we were flying a certified aircraft, There were no mechanics that
could spend their time working on our airplane on that day, And almost
certainly they would have had to order a new alternator (that wouldn't have
been $57!).
So the lessons learned that I'm going to apply to my RV-10:
1) Low voltage idiot lights work, they are a must have in my book
2) Although we were able to safely make it to an alternate airport on
battery power, a back-up alternator equipped engine really ups the
convenience factor. We were incredibly lucky to get our airplane fixed and
flying again the same day. If we had a back-up alternator and were flying
VFR as we were, we would have probably just continued on our way to Florida.
3) Bring a decent tool kit, We had the very basic tools in our airplane
tool kit, but I'm now going to add a small DMM (multi-meter) to the kit.
4) A condensed set of basic wiring schematics for the airplane could
have been a necessity. If the alternator wasn't the problem, I really
would have had a difficult time trouble shooting much more as I was working
completely from memory on how I wired the plane (almost 10 years ago).
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies, LLC.
www.tcwtech.com
RV-10 40176 - finish kit
Message 9
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| Subject: | Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak) |
Has anyone taken the Advanced Pilot seminar for running lean of peak,
either in person or on the web? Was it worth the $$s?
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV-- 10.0 hours
Message 10
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| Subject: | Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak) |
I talked to my Lycoming rep for the IO540 I got fom Vans; They recommend
only running at peak EGT of first cylinder to peak. If you run lean of peak
by all means get it right. $2 per hour gas saving won't compensate for a
damaged engine.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sheldon Olesen
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:11 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak)
Has anyone taken the Advanced Pilot seminar for running lean of peak, either
in person or on the web? Was it worth the $$s?
Sheldon Olesen
N475PV-- 10.0 hours
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak) |
While I agree that you want to get it right, $2/hr gas savings
is way way off the mark. I find that 3-4gph is the savings,
and even at today's once-again-lower prices, that's somewhere
in the neighborhood of $10-15/hr lower fuel cost. Even at
100 hours per year, you're saving enough to buy a new cylinder
every season. At 1/2 TBO, that could be $10-15,000 in savings
from just the fuel alone, which covers a lot of the cost of
the overhaul. So there is significant savings, and significant
environmental, and significant range benefit.
But, you do want to get all the info you can, and do it right.
Fortunately there is a lot of good info out there.
In very very general terms, my take on it is "Stay below 65%
power, and run at least 25degF LOP on all cylinders (25-50F
common) and you'll be in pretty good shape".
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
David McNeill wrote:
>
> I talked to my Lycoming rep for the IO540 I got fom Vans; They recommend
> only running at peak EGT of first cylinder to peak. If you run lean of peak
> by all means get it right. $2 per hour gas saving won't compensate for a
> damaged engine.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sheldon Olesen
> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:11 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak)
>
>
>
> Has anyone taken the Advanced Pilot seminar for running lean of peak, either
> in person or on the web? Was it worth the $$s?
>
>
> Sheldon Olesen
> N475PV-- 10.0 hours
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator failure |
on my computer the initial report on the alternator failure is missing??? vas
gibs??? larry
--------
Larry and Gayle N104LG
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226959#226959
Message 13
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has anybody figured a good way to 'plug' up the tow bar holes and have a sign saying
'DO NOT TOW' down there to avoid problems. or any other way?? thanks.
larry
--------
Larry and Gayle N104LG
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226962#226962
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Alternator failure |
Disagree. A shop may say that, indeed. However, it is simply an
excuse, unless they are a repair station with restrictions on the
station license. A&P Mechanics can work on anything they are familiar
with, without anything more than AC43-13-1B, and/or appliance manuals
especially an experimental, since there is no type certificate and
manufacturer's maintenance manual for it. A Lycoming is a Lycoming. A
Ford aircraft alternator is identical, whether installed on a Cessna
or a Glastar or an RV. Ditto Slick or Bendix magnetos.
But you already knew that as part of your license.
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 2:06 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
> Ditto, except that the mechanics can not work on your airplane. unless your
> are carrying a manual for continued airworthiness, most shops will say that
> since they do not have the manuals they will lend you the tools but they can
> not work on it. Had this happen at the premier FBO at Austin TX airport.
> Secondly a backup battery or a backup (vacuum pad driven) alternator is a
> must for IFR. And you are correct, the aircraft alternator is $350+
> exchange. Lastly my tool box always weighs about 25 pounds which contains
> both many tools and critical spare parts, i.e. seviceable spark plugs, extra
> regulator, master contactor, start relay, fasteners, washers, tie wraps etc.
> ________________________________
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak) |
Wow!. That setting is about the WORST place you can run your engine.
When the first cylinder peaks, it means the others are 10-40 ROP, the
absolute hottest and highest pressure place you could possibly run
your engine. Either go 80-150 ROP if at above 70% power, or go an
appropriate amount LOP using the LAST cylinder to peak, thus ensuring
ALL cylinders are safely LOP.
The Lycoming rep that attends most shows simply doesn't have a clue
about LOP operations and blames a lot of cylinder problems on LOP,
when they in fact were either not lean enough or not rich enough.
The TIO-540 used in the Mooney Bravo is one of the few engines that
won't run reliably LOP, because they use Slick mags that don't deliver
a consistent enough spark timing.
I run my IO-360 Lycoming LOP whenever it is advantageous to do so. I
have over 600 hours doing so.
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 3:35 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
>
> I talked to my Lycoming rep for the IO540 I got fom Vans; They recommend
> only running at peak EGT of first cylinder to peak. If you run lean of peak
> by all means get it right. $2 per hour gas saving won't compensate for a
> damaged engine.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sheldon Olesen
> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:11 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak)
>
>
>
> Has anyone taken the Advanced Pilot seminar for running lean of peak, either
> in person or on the web? Was it worth the $$s?
>
>
> Sheldon Olesen
> N475PV-- 10.0 hours
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Fw: Alternator failure |
Perhaps what I should have said is that they will not risk their repair
station status to touch an experimental. Certainly any A&P can repair
whatever he wants. Management at many of these FBOs won't allow their
mechanics to "repair" aircraft for which there is (they have) no data.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fw: Alternator failure
Disagree. A shop may say that, indeed. However, it is simply an excuse,
unless they are a repair station with restrictions on the station license.
A&P Mechanics can work on anything they are familiar with, without anything
more than AC43-13-1B, and/or appliance manuals especially an experimental,
since there is no type certificate and manufacturer's maintenance manual for
it. A Lycoming is a Lycoming. A Ford aircraft alternator is identical,
whether installed on a Cessna or a Glastar or an RV. Ditto Slick or Bendix
magnetos.
But you already knew that as part of your license.
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 2:06 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
> Ditto, except that the mechanics can not work on your airplane. unless
> your are carrying a manual for continued airworthiness, most shops
> will say that since they do not have the manuals they will lend you
> the tools but they can not work on it. Had this happen at the premier FBO
at Austin TX airport.
> Secondly a backup battery or a backup (vacuum pad driven) alternator
> is a must for IFR. And you are correct, the aircraft alternator is
> $350+ exchange. Lastly my tool box always weighs about 25 pounds which
> contains both many tools and critical spare parts, i.e. seviceable
> spark plugs, extra regulator, master contactor, start relay, fasteners,
washers, tie wraps etc.
> ________________________________
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FYI:
According to GRT, their latest update will now enable the unit to do
the entire approach (procedure turns/holds, the whole nine yards!)
without flipping any switches for the Trutrak auto pilot input. This
requires two additional wires between G530w and GRT. If you are in
the planning/building stage, this is a good time to think about it.
They have an updated wiring diagram.
Rob
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak) |
Whoa! Why would anyone pay good money for learning about running 'lean
of peak'??? If you google 'lean of peak' by itself you get *4,370,000
*hits for your reading pleasure*!!! *Of course some of them are for
gamers ... :-P
I understand that it might be tough to separate the real skinny (old
navy term) from the true lies, but you should be able to get some good
info from all those hits. The first big one is .... running lean of
peak is only for injected engines .... carbs have poor fuel distribution
and therefore aren't eligible.
Do you have some specific questions or concerns???
Linn
Sheldon Olesen wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone taken the Advanced Pilot seminar for running lean of peak,
> either in person or on the web? Was it worth the $$s?
>
>
> Sheldon Olesen
> N475PV-- 10.0 hours
>
>
Message 19
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What have people used for dimmer switches?
I'm going to have some lighted rocker switches, LED map and flood lights,
radios, AFS Efis, and some 2.25" backup gauges.
Interested to hear what options people have used and why? I've hear that
certain dimming circuits don't work with the GNS430W's but I know nothing.
-Ben
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 'do not tow' |
lbgjb10 wrote:
>
> has anybody figured a good way to 'plug' up the tow bar holes and have a sign
saying 'DO NOT TOW' down there to avoid problems. or any other way?? thanks.
larry
>
There are plenty of plastic plugs to fill a hole. Remember that Google
is your friend!!!
But I have to ask 'why?' Do you drop your airplane off, tell the line
boy to 'top it off and put it away'??? I hope not!
Have you experienced any problems or is this a pre-emptive strike on a
perceived problem.
Linn
> --------
> Larry and Gayle N104LG
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226962#226962
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Alternator failure |
Kelly, I'm not an A&P or AI, so beart with me. I do believe that the
FAA mandate that one have the manuals pertinent to the equipment in
question also applies to experimentals. There is a huge difference in
what WE (as a holder of a repairmans certificate) can do on our
experimentals Vs. what a licensed A&P/AI can do. Far too often the lack
of a manual never goes noticed until something lousy happens. And it's
the person that signed off the maintenance that takes the hit.
Hopefully a licensed A&P/AI will comment, but I'll ask my gurus.
Linn
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Disagree. A shop may say that, indeed. However, it is simply an
> excuse, unless they are a repair station with restrictions on the
> station license. A&P Mechanics can work on anything they are familiar
> with, without anything more than AC43-13-1B, and/or appliance manuals
> especially an experimental, since there is no type certificate and
> manufacturer's maintenance manual for it. A Lycoming is a Lycoming. A
> Ford aircraft alternator is identical, whether installed on a Cessna
> or a Glastar or an RV. Ditto Slick or Bendix magnetos.
> But you already knew that as part of your license.
>
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 2:06 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Ditto, except that the mechanics can not work on your airplane. unless your
>> are carrying a manual for continued airworthiness, most shops will say that
>> since they do not have the manuals they will lend you the tools but they can
>> not work on it. Had this happen at the premier FBO at Austin TX airport.
>> Secondly a backup battery or a backup (vacuum pad driven) alternator is a
>> must for IFR. And you are correct, the aircraft alternator is $350+
>> exchange. Lastly my tool box always weighs about 25 pounds which contains
>> both many tools and critical spare parts, i.e. seviceable spark plugs, extra
>> regulator, master contactor, start relay, fasteners, washers, tie wraps etc.
>> ________________________________
>>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak) |
My only comment is on the Lycoming rep: When I told one I was running
my Pitts (O-360) on hi-test mogas, his comment was...... that's
impossible. But until the alcohol problem, that's all it drank for
almost 38 years!!! The Lycoming reps parrot the 'party line' and
disavow any knowledge of operations outside the printed documentation.
It's a liability problem. Ask users what they do, and you'll get a
better, more accurate answer.
Because I didn't have a starter in my Pitts for 13 years, keeping the
rocks (lead) out of my plugs made starting easier, and mogas doesn't
have any lead. Starting was much easier and I didn't have to clean the
plugs every 10-15 hours. This was before mogas STCs. I did have to
move up to hi-test though, because when the engine got hot while I was
exploring extreme unusual attitudes the engine would ping. But when I
pointed the nose straight up, it went straight up .... for a long ways.
When I rebuilt the engine due to metal fatigue failure of the prop
flange, the engine was surprisingly in good shape. Surprising because I
ran the dog poop (OK, I'm being nice here) out of it!
Linn
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Wow!. That setting is about the WORST place you can run your engine.
> When the first cylinder peaks, it means the others are 10-40 ROP, the
> absolute hottest and highest pressure place you could possibly run
> your engine. Either go 80-150 ROP if at above 70% power, or go an
> appropriate amount LOP using the LAST cylinder to peak, thus ensuring
> ALL cylinders are safely LOP.
> The Lycoming rep that attends most shows simply doesn't have a clue
> about LOP operations and blames a lot of cylinder problems on LOP,
> when they in fact were either not lean enough or not rich enough.
> The TIO-540 used in the Mooney Bravo is one of the few engines that
> won't run reliably LOP, because they use Slick mags that don't deliver
> a consistent enough spark timing.
> I run my IO-360 Lycoming LOP whenever it is advantageous to do so. I
> have over 600 hours doing so.
>
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 3:35 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> I talked to my Lycoming rep for the IO540 I got fom Vans; They recommend
>> only running at peak EGT of first cylinder to peak. If you run lean of peak
>> by all means get it right. $2 per hour gas saving won't compensate for a
>> damaged engine.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sheldon Olesen
>> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:11 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak)
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone taken the Advanced Pilot seminar for running lean of peak, either
>> in person or on the web? Was it worth the $$s?
>>
>>
>> Sheldon Olesen
>> N475PV-- 10.0 hours
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 23
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Ben Westfall wrote:
>
> What have people used for dimmer switches?
>
Tape over the switch to block the light??? :-P Sorry, couldn't resist!
I assume you want to 'dim the lighted switch'. Well, the tape would
work, but you just need to hook the lamp part of the switch to your
dimmer circuit and your nmood lighting problems are solved.
>
> Im going to have some lighted rocker switches, LED map and flood
> lights, radios, AFS Efis, and some 2.25 backup gauges
>
> Interested to hear what options people have used and why? Ive hear
> that certain dimming circuits dont work with the GNS430Ws but I know
> nothing.
>
The GNS430W has photocell dimming built in (showing up a lot) so it's
not controlled by an external dimmer. The most common dimmer in aircraft
is a high-wattage pot (rheostat or variable resistor), but these are
rapidly being replaces by transistor controllers or even pulse-width
modulated drivers. More than a couple of ways to skin the cat ....
although I don't know why you'd do that to a cat! ;-) ... I love this
language!!!
>
> -Ben
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 3802 (20090126) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Alternator failure |
Linn,
My comment was as a licensed A&P/IA. The need for manuals on the jobsite
is greatly overblown. Just like the need to have charts on board. There
are differing standards for Part 91 and for the commercial operations.
Since FSDOs deal far more with commercial operations, they get in their
head those requirements.
The requirement for A&Ps is familiarity with the task at hand. I do not
need to have the manual on hand to torque a spark plug in a Lycoming
engine. They are all the same for that brand, and I have that on the top
of my head. OTOH, if I am needing the rigging specs or control surface
balancing specs for a plane, I will get out the right manual and have
that infrequently used info right in front of me, step by step.
The situation at hand was the failure of a Ford aircraft type
alternator. They are so common amongst the fleet that most any A&P is
going to be familiar without the manuals. The owner might need to
provide some info on cowling removal, access to the unit, any
information on the plane's wiring system. I'd rather have the person
that built the system as a reference than some written document that I
have to decipher. But that is just me and my opinion.
linn Walters wrote:
>
> Kelly, I'm not an A&P or AI, so beart with me. I do believe that the
> FAA mandate that one have the manuals pertinent to the equipment in
> question also applies to experimentals. There is a huge difference in
> what WE (as a holder of a repairmans certificate) can do on our
> experimentals Vs. what a licensed A&P/AI can do. Far too often the lack
> of a manual never goes noticed until something lousy happens. And it's
> the person that signed off the maintenance that takes the hit.
> Hopefully a licensed A&P/AI will comment, but I'll ask my gurus.
> Linn
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> Disagree. A shop may say that, indeed. However, it is simply an
>> excuse, unless they are a repair station with restrictions on the
>> station license. A&P Mechanics can work on anything they are familiar
>> with, without anything more than AC43-13-1B, and/or appliance manuals
>> especially an experimental, since there is no type certificate and
>> manufacturer's maintenance manual for it. A Lycoming is a Lycoming. A
>> Ford aircraft alternator is identical, whether installed on a Cessna
>> or a Glastar or an RV. Ditto Slick or Bendix magnetos.
>> But you already knew that as part of your license.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 2:06 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Ditto, except that the mechanics can not work on your airplane.
>>> unless your
>>> are carrying a manual for continued airworthiness, most shops will
>>> say that
>>> since they do not have the manuals they will lend you the tools but
>>> they can
>>> not work on it. Had this happen at the premier FBO at Austin TX
>>> airport.
>>> Secondly a backup battery or a backup (vacuum pad driven) alternator
>>> is a
>>> must for IFR. And you are correct, the aircraft alternator is $350+
>>> exchange. Lastly my tool box always weighs about 25 pounds which
>>> contains
>>> both many tools and critical spare parts, i.e. seviceable spark
>>> plugs, extra
>>> regulator, master contactor, start relay, fasteners, washers, tie
>>> wraps etc.
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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Ben,
These work great:
http://www.fdatasystems.com/Dimmer.htm
The big one will dim G400/500 units, but Linn's right--the Garmins also have
an automatic dimmer that works fine for most people. Save the trouble
there.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 6:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: dimmer wars
What have people used for dimmer switches?
I'm going to have some lighted rocker switches, LED map and flood lights,
radios, AFS Efis, and some 2.25" backup gauges.
Interested to hear what options people have used and why? I've hear that
certain dimming circuits don't work with the GNS430W's but I know nothing.
-Ben
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3802 (20090126) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
browse
Forums!
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Alternator failure and experimentals |
OK, I asked my Guru:
So what did the Guru say? <G>
For certified components, FAR 43.13 is the controlling document. We are
required to have the manufacturer's current maintenance instructions to
work on a component. Be that an airframe, engine, prop, wheel and
brake, or an alternator.
For experimental (and the FSDO seems to suggest that it can't be
experimental if it has a certified dataplate on it.... this came up at a
safety meeting, where an experimental owner was saying he didn't want to
comply with an AD on his engine, since it was experimental. The FSDO
inspector asked: "Does it have a data plate on it?" and the answer was
"Yes", and the FSDO inspector said you must comply with the AD or it is
not airworthy, experimental or not.) we are probably relieved of the
requirement to have the manufacturer's data, since as you say, there is
no TC, etc.
I didn't see what all they are arguing about, but I've had FBOs lend me
tools rather than accept the liability for the work. Especially in
cases like my Ford Truck Alternator install on the way home from OR with
my Project Tiger, where it was clear I knew more about the workings than
they did.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
Birmingham, AL
Bob is one of my Grumman experts ....
It appears the the dataplate (and liability) are the controlling items.
They're everywhere in our experimental planes, from carbs to avionics to
.... and without real data from the FBOs (which may be like opinions)
we'll never know ... until the crap hits the prop! ;-)
Linn
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Disagree. A shop may say that, indeed. However, it is simply an
> excuse, unless they are a repair station with restrictions on the
> station license. A&P Mechanics can work on anything they are familiar
> with, without anything more than AC43-13-1B, and/or appliance manuals
> especially an experimental, since there is no type certificate and
> manufacturer's maintenance manual for it. A Lycoming is a Lycoming. A
> Ford aircraft alternator is identical, whether installed on a Cessna
> or a Glastar or an RV. Ditto Slick or Bendix magnetos.
> But you already knew that as part of your license.
>
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 2:06 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Ditto, except that the mechanics can not work on your airplane. unless your
>> are carrying a manual for continued airworthiness, most shops will say that
>> since they do not have the manuals they will lend you the tools but they can
>> not work on it. Had this happen at the premier FBO at Austin TX airport.
>> Secondly a backup battery or a backup (vacuum pad driven) alternator is a
>> must for IFR. And you are correct, the aircraft alternator is $350+
>> exchange. Lastly my tool box always weighs about 25 pounds which contains
>> both many tools and critical spare parts, i.e. seviceable spark plugs, extra
>> regulator, master contactor, start relay, fasteners, washers, tie wraps etc.
>> ________________________________
>>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Alternator failure |
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Linn,
SNIP
> The owner might need to provide some info on cowling removal, access
> to the unit, any information on the plane's wiring system. I'd rather
> have the person that built the system as a reference than some written
> document that I have to decipher. But that is just me and my opinion.
And that's worth a whole heck of a lot!!! And I agree with your opinion
..... but, as I've pointed out .... when the FED comes looking at your
operation ..... and takes the position "Since FSDOs deal far more with
commercial operations, they get in their head those requirements.", will
you prevail??? I've dealt with the FAA (nothing pleasant) and find them
to press whatever route they want, legal or not ..... and get the
feeling that they won't end up holding the short stick. I think that's
what the FBOs are wary of. It's a hi/low profile thingy.
Thanks Kelly.
Linn
>
> linn Walters wrote:
>> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> Kelly, I'm not an A&P or AI, so beart with me. I do believe that the
>> FAA mandate that one have the manuals pertinent to the equipment in
>> question also applies to experimentals. There is a huge difference
>> in what WE (as a holder of a repairmans certificate) can do on our
>> experimentals Vs. what a licensed A&P/AI can do. Far too often the
>> lack of a manual never goes noticed until something lousy happens.
>> And it's the person that signed off the maintenance that takes the
>> hit. Hopefully a licensed A&P/AI will comment, but I'll ask my gurus.
>> Linn
>>
>> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>>
>>> Disagree. A shop may say that, indeed. However, it is simply an
>>> excuse, unless they are a repair station with restrictions on the
>>> station license. A&P Mechanics can work on anything they are familiar
>>> with, without anything more than AC43-13-1B, and/or appliance manuals
>>> especially an experimental, since there is no type certificate and
>>> manufacturer's maintenance manual for it. A Lycoming is a Lycoming. A
>>> Ford aircraft alternator is identical, whether installed on a Cessna
>>> or a Glastar or an RV. Ditto Slick or Bendix magnetos.
>>> But you already knew that as part of your license.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 2:06 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ditto, except that the mechanics can not work on your airplane.
>>>> unless your
>>>> are carrying a manual for continued airworthiness, most shops will
>>>> say that
>>>> since they do not have the manuals they will lend you the tools but
>>>> they can
>>>> not work on it. Had this happen at the premier FBO at Austin TX
>>>> airport.
>>>> Secondly a backup battery or a backup (vacuum pad driven)
>>>> alternator is a
>>>> must for IFR. And you are correct, the aircraft alternator is $350+
>>>> exchange. Lastly my tool box always weighs about 25 pounds which
>>>> contains
>>>> both many tools and critical spare parts, i.e. seviceable spark
>>>> plugs, extra
>>>> regulator, master contactor, start relay, fasteners, washers, tie
>>>> wraps etc.
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Alternator failure and experimentals |
You will find a lot of opinions, but the opinions narrow when you refer
to the actual regulation. Your guru didn't refer to the reg.
His opinion isn't what 43-13 says. I quote:
"a) Each person performing maintenance, alteration, or preventive
maintenance on an aircraft, engine, propeller, or appliance shall use
the methods, techniques, and practices prescribed in the current
manufacturer's maintenance manual or Instructions for continued
airworthiness prepared by its manufacturer, OR OTHER METHODS,
TECHNIQUES, AND PRACTICES ACCEPTABLE TO THE ADMINISTRATOR EXCEPT AS IN
43.16.
He shall use the tools, equipment, and test apparatus necessary to
assure completion of the work in accordance with ACCEPTED INDUSTRY
PRACTICES. If special equipment or test apparatus is recommended by the
manufacturer involved, he must use that equipment or apparatus or its
equivalent acceptable to the Administrator."
Emphasis added by me.
43.16 applies to commercial operations and is a narrower
standard(eliminates the alternative methods). It is those aircraft that
require a mechanic to be working directly from the manual.
Practices acceptable to the Administrator are defined in 43.13-1B. The
emphasize sections are what lets a mechanic work based on his knowledge
of common parts without the manual for a Lycoming O-360 installed in a
Glastar(as opposed to one in a Cessna).
So, only if you fall under 43.16 are you required to have the manual and
follow it. No experimental falls under 43.16 as OBAM aircraft are not
approved for commercial operations(other than transition training).
Given that you are the manufacturer, you can write down whatever
recommendations you want, and that is the guidance to the mechanic.
linn Walters wrote:
>
>
> OK, I asked my Guru:
> So what did the Guru say? <G>
>
> For certified components, FAR 43.13 is the controlling document. We are
> required to have the manufacturer's current maintenance instructions to
> work on a component. Be that an airframe, engine, prop, wheel and
> brake, or an alternator.
>
> For experimental (and the FSDO seems to suggest that it can't be
> experimental if it has a certified dataplate on it.... this came up at a
> safety meeting, where an experimental owner was saying he didn't want to
> comply with an AD on his engine, since it was experimental. The FSDO
> inspector asked: "Does it have a data plate on it?" and the answer was
> "Yes", and the FSDO inspector said you must comply with the AD or it is
> not airworthy, experimental or not.) we are probably relieved of the
> requirement to have the manufacturer's data, since as you say, there is
> no TC, etc.
>
> I didn't see what all they are arguing about, but I've had FBOs lend me
> tools rather than accept the liability for the work. Especially in
> cases like my Ford Truck Alternator install on the way home from OR with
> my Project Tiger, where it was clear I knew more about the workings than
> they did.
>
> Bob Steward, A&P IA
> Birmingham, AL
>
> Bob is one of my Grumman experts ....
>
> It appears the the dataplate (and liability) are the controlling items.
> They're everywhere in our experimental planes, from carbs to avionics to
> .... and without real data from the FBOs (which may be like opinions)
> we'll never know ... until the crap hits the prop! ;-)
> Linn
>
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> Disagree. A shop may say that, indeed. However, it is simply an
>> excuse, unless they are a repair station with restrictions on the
>> station license. A&P Mechanics can work on anything they are familiar
>> with, without anything more than AC43-13-1B, and/or appliance manuals
>> especially an experimental, since there is no type certificate and
>> manufacturer's maintenance manual for it. A Lycoming is a Lycoming. A
>> Ford aircraft alternator is identical, whether installed on a Cessna
>> or a Glastar or an RV. Ditto Slick or Bendix magnetos.
>> But you already knew that as part of your license.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 2:06 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Ditto, except that the mechanics can not work on your airplane.
>>> unless your
>>> are carrying a manual for continued airworthiness, most shops will
>>> say that
>>> since they do not have the manuals they will lend you the tools but
>>> they can
>>> not work on it. Had this happen at the premier FBO at Austin TX
>>> airport.
>>> Secondly a backup battery or a backup (vacuum pad driven) alternator
>>> is a
>>> must for IFR. And you are correct, the aircraft alternator is $350+
>>> exchange. Lastly my tool box always weighs about 25 pounds which
>>> contains
>>> both many tools and critical spare parts, i.e. seviceable spark
>>> plugs, extra
>>> regulator, master contactor, start relay, fasteners, washers, tie
>>> wraps etc.
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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I see now that everything in my radio stack has its own photo cell. Thanks
for suggestion Dave.
-Ben
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 8:08 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: dimmer wars
Ben,
These work great:
http://www.fdatasystems.com/Dimmer.htm
The big one will dim G400/500 units, but Linn's right--the Garmins also have
an automatic dimmer that works fine for most people. Save the trouble
there.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 6:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: dimmer wars
What have people used for dimmer switches?
I'm going to have some lighted rocker switches, LED map and flood lights,
radios, AFS Efis, and some 2.25" backup gauges.
Interested to hear what options people have used and why? I've hear that
certain dimming circuits don't work with the GNS430W's but I know nothing.
-Ben
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Web Forums!
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com -Matt
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
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Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Alternator failure |
You are right. That is what they are wary about. However, the Fed is
supposed to be looking at did the mechanic perform a repair in an
unairworthy manner? Did he not document properly what he did? Not that
the unreasonable feds against aviation won't nitpick about things that
don't apply. Can't do too much about that.
Since OBAM aircraft are each one of a kind, the Fed should not be
looking for the same criteria as a certified aircraft.
If mechanic wants to play CYA, he can make his log entry such as to
include "consulted with aircraft manufacturer on repair methods and
performed as recommended."
Most repair stations business is commercially operated aircraft, so
their thinking is in line with the Feds.
All this discussion doesn't really matter if they offer assistance and
let you be responsible for the work and repairs. You make the log entry,
pay them for whatever service they provide, and everyone should be
happy. So I'm sure that is why some offer to go that route.
Heck, if you have your construction log/maintenance info on the web, and
they have access, that should cover it.
linn Walters wrote:
and takes the position "Since FSDOs deal far more with
> commercial operations, they get in their head those requirements.", will
> you prevail??? I've dealt with the FAA (nothing pleasant) and find them
> to press whatever route they want, legal or not ..... and get the
> feeling that they won't end up holding the short stick. I think that's
> what the FBOs are wary of. It's a hi/low profile thingy.
> Thanks Kelly.
> Linn
Message 31
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| Subject: | Fw: Alternator failure and experimentals |
I think that in many cases we builders will find it hard to persuade an FBO
to work on our experimental for whatever reasons they so desire. A freelance
shade tree mechanic (A&P) will be more likely than an established FBO since
insurance, liability and regulations are less of a consideration or are
unspoken or unknown.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fw: Alternator failure and experimentals
You will find a lot of opinions, but the opinions narrow when you refer to
the actual regulation. Your guru didn't refer to the reg.
His opinion isn't what 43-13 says. I quote:
"a) Each person performing maintenance, alteration, or preventive
maintenance on an aircraft, engine, propeller, or appliance shall use the
methods, techniques, and practices prescribed in the current manufacturer's
maintenance manual or Instructions for continued airworthiness prepared by
its manufacturer, OR OTHER METHODS, TECHNIQUES, AND PRACTICES ACCEPTABLE TO
THE ADMINISTRATOR EXCEPT AS IN 43.16.
He shall use the tools, equipment, and test apparatus necessary to assure
completion of the work in accordance with ACCEPTED INDUSTRY PRACTICES. If
special equipment or test apparatus is recommended by the manufacturer
involved, he must use that equipment or apparatus or its equivalent
acceptable to the Administrator."
Emphasis added by me.
43.16 applies to commercial operations and is a narrower standard(eliminates
the alternative methods). It is those aircraft that require a mechanic to be
working directly from the manual.
Practices acceptable to the Administrator are defined in 43.13-1B. The
emphasize sections are what lets a mechanic work based on his knowledge of
common parts without the manual for a Lycoming O-360 installed in a
Glastar(as opposed to one in a Cessna).
So, only if you fall under 43.16 are you required to have the manual and
follow it. No experimental falls under 43.16 as OBAM aircraft are not
approved for commercial operations(other than transition training).
Given that you are the manufacturer, you can write down whatever
recommendations you want, and that is the guidance to the mechanic.
linn Walters wrote:
> --> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>
>
> OK, I asked my Guru:
> So what did the Guru say? <G>
>
> For certified components, FAR 43.13 is the controlling document. We
> are required to have the manufacturer's current maintenance
> instructions to work on a component. Be that an airframe, engine,
> prop, wheel and brake, or an alternator.
>
> For experimental (and the FSDO seems to suggest that it can't be
> experimental if it has a certified dataplate on it.... this came up at
> a safety meeting, where an experimental owner was saying he didn't
> want to comply with an AD on his engine, since it was experimental.
> The FSDO inspector asked: "Does it have a data plate on it?" and the
> answer was "Yes", and the FSDO inspector said you must comply with the
> AD or it is not airworthy, experimental or not.) we are probably
> relieved of the requirement to have the manufacturer's data, since as
> you say, there is no TC, etc.
>
> I didn't see what all they are arguing about, but I've had FBOs lend
> me tools rather than accept the liability for the work. Especially in
> cases like my Ford Truck Alternator install on the way home from OR
> with my Project Tiger, where it was clear I knew more about the
> workings than they did.
>
> Bob Steward, A&P IA
> Birmingham, AL
>
> Bob is one of my Grumman experts ....
>
> It appears the the dataplate (and liability) are the controlling items.
> They're everywhere in our experimental planes, from carbs to avionics
> to .... and without real data from the FBOs (which may be like
> opinions) we'll never know ... until the crap hits the prop! ;-) Linn
>
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>> Disagree. A shop may say that, indeed. However, it is simply an
>> excuse, unless they are a repair station with restrictions on the
>> station license. A&P Mechanics can work on anything they are familiar
>> with, without anything more than AC43-13-1B, and/or appliance manuals
>> especially an experimental, since there is no type certificate and
>> manufacturer's maintenance manual for it. A Lycoming is a Lycoming. A
>> Ford aircraft alternator is identical, whether installed on a Cessna
>> or a Glastar or an RV. Ditto Slick or Bendix magnetos.
>> But you already knew that as part of your license.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 2:06 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Ditto, except that the mechanics can not work on your airplane.
>>> unless your
>>> are carrying a manual for continued airworthiness, most shops will
>>> say that since they do not have the manuals they will lend you the
>>> tools but they can not work on it. Had this happen at the premier
>>> FBO at Austin TX airport.
>>> Secondly a backup battery or a backup (vacuum pad driven) alternator
>>> is a must for IFR. And you are correct, the aircraft alternator is
>>> $350+ exchange. Lastly my tool box always weighs about 25 pounds
>>> which contains both many tools and critical spare parts, i.e.
>>> seviceable spark plugs, extra regulator, master contactor, start
>>> relay, fasteners, washers, tie wraps etc.
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Alternator failure |
David McNeill wrote:
> Ditto, except that the mechanics *can not* work on your airplane. unless
> your are carrying a manual for continued airworthiness, most shops will
> say that since they do not have the manuals they will lend you the tools
> but they can not work on it.
Hi David,
According to the EAA, *anyone* may work on a homebuilt regardless of
their credentials, or lack thereof:
<http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/faq/Non-builder%20Maintenance.html#TopOfPage>
"I am going to buy a used homebuilt, what work can I perform myself?
FAR Part 43 specifically states that the rules of that part do not apply
to experimental, amateur-built aircraft. Therefore, any work (not just
maintenance) on an experimental aircraft can be performed virtually by
anyone regardless of credentials. (This does not apply to the condition
inspection). Let common sense be your guide as to what maintenance you
conduct yourself."
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ KR-2 Builder N770DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/ http://deej.net/kr-2/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 33
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| Subject: | Fw: Alternator failure |
They won't work if their management says no and many times they say no;
primarily for insurance, liability and documentation reasons. Obviously its
their choice. As I said I have had an FBO at Austin tell me that I may use
their hangar and tools but they are not permitted by their management to do
work on an experiemtnal. The rewards , for them, do not begin to compare
with the perceived risks.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Merrill
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fw: Alternator failure
David McNeill wrote:
> Ditto, except that the mechanics *can not* work on your airplane.
> unless your are carrying a manual for continued airworthiness, most
> shops will say that since they do not have the manuals they will lend
> you the tools but they can not work on it.
Hi David,
According to the EAA, *anyone* may work on a homebuilt regardless of
their credentials, or lack thereof:
<http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/faq/Non-builder%20Maintenance.html
#TopOfPage>
"I am going to buy a used homebuilt, what work can I perform myself?
FAR Part 43 specifically states that the rules of that part do not apply to
experimental, amateur-built aircraft. Therefore, any work (not just
maintenance) on an experimental aircraft can be performed virtually by
anyone regardless of credentials. (This does not apply to the condition
inspection). Let common sense be your guide as to what maintenance you
conduct yourself."
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ KR-2 Builder N770DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/ http://deej.net/kr-2/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 34
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| Subject: | Spinner cutout - accounting for prop pitch |
Yea , Yea , I know that I am supposed to be an airplane builder, but this is a
kit.
In the interest of safety alone , you would think that Van's would supply a proper
template to cut out the prop spinner. One poorly cut spinner could be catastrophic
for a builder. After all there are now hundreds of RV10 kits with Hartzell
props being built.
Peter James posted this file some months ago.....link......below
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=48798&highlight=spinner
It is a template for the prop spinner cutout. Big question??????
Does this template provide for the rotation of the prop at different pitches?
I hate the idea of forcing the springs/blades with external force to get the exact
cut out dimensions.
--------
OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
Q/B Kit - wiring and FWF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227029#227029
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