---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/06/09: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:59 AM - Re: Kits (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 2. 08:37 AM - Flamemaster Shelf Life (Larry Rosen) 3. 08:57 AM - Re: Flamemaster Shelf Life (ricksked@embarqmail.com) 4. 09:19 AM - Re: Flamemaster Shelf Life (Tim Olson) 5. 11:14 AM - Re: Flamemaster Shelf Life (John Cox) 6. 12:12 PM - Re: Cowl hinge sealant? (johngoodman) 7. 01:06 PM - Re: Re: Cowl hinge sealant? (Paul Bowmar) 8. 01:06 PM - Re: Re: Cowl hinge sealant? (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 9. 02:32 PM - Parking brake (woxofswa) 10. 02:35 PM - Re: Re: Cowl hinge sealant? (linn Walters) 11. 04:49 PM - Aileron rigging - Reflex ? (Deems Davis) 12. 04:54 PM - Re: Parking brake (Jeff Carpenter) 13. 04:56 PM - Re: Aileron rigging - Reflex ? (Kelly McMullen) 14. 06:12 PM - Up on its' gear (John Gonzalez) 15. 06:23 PM - Re: Up on its' gear (Steve Mills) 16. 06:42 PM - Matco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle (Rene) 17. 06:56 PM - Re: Parking brake (Deems Davis) 18. 07:27 PM - Re: Parking brake (Kevin Belue) 19. 07:51 PM - Re: Parking brake (Deems Davis) 20. 08:35 PM - Re: Aileron rigging - Reflex ? (Fred Williams, M.D.) 21. 08:44 PM - Re: Parking brake (Kevin Belue) 22. 09:05 PM - Re: Parking brake (pascal) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:37 AM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Kits There are definitely cheaper and better options for some of the items for t he FWF kit. For instance I believe both Bonaco and Aircrafthose.com have k its to replace the Van's hoses for less money and with integral fire sleeve . I know I went through and deleted probably about half the items in the F WF. Michael From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 9:30 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Kits Thanks for the replies. Appreciate all that. I think it is a bit disingenuo us of Vans to not list it in the kit prices , and in the price estimator to show $3400-4800 when the current price is $6000. Oh well, won't be the first chunk overlooked in budget. I don't see a whole l ot changing in that kit if you stick with a 540 series engine, regardless o f source, which is perhaps 98% of all RV-10s? Obviously we can choose to ro ll own, with the time issues to research, price, order, etc. Kelly Bob Leffler wrote: rv@thelefflers.com> The firewall kit is highly dependent on which engine you get. There are to o many options, so quite a few folks roll their own. Vans does sell a firewall kit for the 540 models they sell. It's in their catalog. You can use those as a starting point if you get an engine from another source. There is no overlap with the finishing kit. You can see the details here: http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1233864459-434-198& bro wse=engines&product=FF_Kit The following is off the web store. T [cid:image001.jpg@01C98830.6880A980] ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:04 AM PST US From: Larry Rosen Subject: RV10-List: Flamemaster Shelf Life I have some expired Flamemaster. Some expired in 2007 and some in 2008. It has spent most of it life since I have had it in the freezer. Is it still good? How would I know if it is not good. Larry Rosen #356 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flamemaster Shelf Life From: ricksked@embarqmail.com Larry, Mine was crap after the expiration date...I cured so fast it never made it out of the tube, that was the firewall sealant...the proseal seemed Ok but I only used it on the cabin top and naca vents Rick S. ------Original Message------ From: Larry Rosen Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: Rv Sent: Feb 6, 2009 8:35 AM Subject: RV10-List: Flamemaster Shelf Life I have some expired Flamemaster. Some expired in 2007 and some in 2008. It has spent most of it life since I have had it in the freezer. Is it still good? How would I know if it is not good. Larry Rosen #356 Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:04 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flamemaster Shelf Life I've still got some from 2004/5 that I've used on some items. You may just want to test it and see how it goes. If you're still doing fuel tanks, maybe then I'd just buy one fresh can though....and call this stuff spare. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Larry Rosen wrote: > > I have some expired Flamemaster. Some expired in 2007 and some in > 2008. It has spent most of it life since I have had it in the freezer. > Is it still good? How would I know if it is not good. > > Larry Rosen > #356 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:14:25 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flamemaster Shelf Life From: "John Cox" You mentioned Flamemaster sealant, but I will respond on PPG ProSeal. Our products at work are tracked for FAA accountability. We are penalized if caught with expired product in our hands. The last prepackaged tube of PR-1422B1/2 is in what we call a Semkit bag. It is hermetically sealed against oxidation of the catalyst. The package is filled with nitrogen gas to displace oxygen. It was manufactured in Nov 2008, we received it on November 17th. It formally expires on August, 2009. We have a backdoor policy that throws the stuff away (at expiration)and other mechanics use it in the field for experimental aircraft and those that the Eco-nazis are not tracking. "All of our sealant is used or disposed of before the expiration. We have been hit several times by the FAA. It is $10,000 each occurrence". I have heard tribal knowledge of refrigeration and sealing it away from oxygen. I have been told Seal 'a Meal units work great. In metal cans that is a bit tougher. When expired, the primary sealant dries out, loses its flow characteristic or the catalyst fails to "light off" the concoction. B1/2 gives 30 minutes work time. It cures at room temp in about 24 hours. B 1/4 gives 15 minutes and cures in less than four (we use it for Line Repairs). The B2 stays workable for 120 minutes and we have been known to use stuff that has not yet set up 8 hours later for selected jobs (is used in Heavy Check "C"). When the catalyst goes South, and the final product does not cure. The applicator (You) get to clean off the expired non cured concoction. At that point MEK comes into the formulation. This is more information than RV-10 builders want to read. The answer: Mix a batch, let it cure, make a judgment call as you are the manufacturer. The planet will be better for one less batch of hazmat discarded. John Cox #600 do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 8:36 AM Subject: RV10-List: Flamemaster Shelf Life I have some expired Flamemaster. Some expired in 2007 and some in 2008. It has spent most of it life since I have had it in the freezer. Is it still good? How would I know if it is not good. Larry Rosen #356 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:12 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Cowl hinge sealant? From: "johngoodman" Take a look at this company, as well. I have used their FP200 expanding foam with excellent results. This caulk looks like it might fit your needs. http://cableorganizer.com/3m-fire-protection/fire-rated-caulk-cp310.htm John -------- #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit started. N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228937#228937 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:06:39 PM PST US From: "Paul Bowmar" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Cowl hinge sealant? The problem I found with intumescent fire block products is that they begin to intumess or expand at about 250 degrees. Close proximity to 400 degree cylinder heads could touch off the expansion leaving future voids. Plane Innovations sells a NON intumescent 2000 degree fireblock sealant. www.planeinnovations.com Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "johngoodman" Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 1:09 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Cowl hinge sealant? > > Take a look at this company, as well. I have used their FP200 expanding > foam with excellent results. This caulk looks like it might fit your > needs. > > http://cableorganizer.com/3m-fire-protection/fire-rated-caulk-cp310.htm > > John > > -------- > #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit started. > N711JG reserved > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228937#228937 > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:06:39 PM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Cowl hinge sealant? There's no need to get Intumescent caulk online, it can be had at any local hardware store. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 2:09 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Cowl hinge sealant? Take a look at this company, as well. I have used their FP200 expanding foam with excellent results. This caulk looks like it might fit your needs. http://cableorganizer.com/3m-fire-protection/fire-rated-caulk-cp310.htm John -------- #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit started. N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228937#228937 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:32:36 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Parking brake From: "woxofswa" I would appreciate the brain trust opinion on parking brake installation. I have one in my Socata and find it very useful. Are there downsides other than cost and more seals to leak? Are the Van's valve and install kit the way most are doing it or are there alternatives? Thanks in advance. -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228974#228974 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:51 PM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Cowl hinge sealant? RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > > There's no need to get Intumescent caulk online, it can be had at any local hardware store. > > Michael I had to look it up ..... great scrabble word!!! :-) : An *intumescent* is a substance which swells as a result of heat exposure, thus increasing in volume , and decreasing in density . Intumescents are typically used in passive fire protection and, in America, require listing and approval use and compliance in their installed configurations in order to comply with the law . Linn ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:23 PM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: RV10-List: Aileron rigging - Reflex ? I have the flaps and ailerons mounted to the wing and the wing is attached to the fuse. (I don't have the wing tips on yet). It's pretty straight forward to align the ailerons with the trailing edges of each flap. However, I recall somewhere seeing/hearing about a 'reflex' position where the ailerons were rigged 'up' 2-3 degrees on each side. IIRC correctly this increased performance. What's the experience/advice from those who are flying? Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....and it's almost put together.....' http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:27 PM PST US From: Jeff Carpenter Subject: Re: RV10-List: Parking brake Hi Myron, It's pretty easy to roll your own bracket for mounting. I made mine from 3/4" angle and Nick Gautier gave me a duplicate of his plate design that you see between the bracket and valve in the picture attached that will hold the adel clamp for the vernier cable and forms the stop for the arm on the valve. The valve, straight fittings and other odds and ends shouldn't reach $200.00... and you can get it all from Spruce. Jeff Carpenter 40304 N410CF Progress suddenly slowed by the economy (all kinds of time, but no money for the panel) you have the same number of connections to make On Feb 6, 2009, at 2:31 PM, woxofswa wrote: > > I would appreciate the brain trust opinion on parking brake > installation. > I have one in my Socata and find it very useful. Are there > downsides other than cost and more seals to leak? > > Are the Van's valve and install kit the way most are doing it or > are there alternatives? > > Thanks in advance. > > -------- > Myron Nelson > Mesa, AZ > Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228974#228974 > >
________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron rigging - Reflex ? From: Kelly McMullen http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1233967990-424-648&browse=airframe&product=reflex talks about it, so I assume it exists. Wondering if this unit is preferable to the flap positioning system. On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Deems Davis wrote: > > I have the flaps and ailerons mounted to the wing and the wing is attached > to the fuse. (I don't have the wing tips on yet). It's pretty straight > forward to align the ailerons with the trailing edges of each flap. However, > I recall somewhere seeing/hearing about a 'reflex' position where the > ailerons were rigged 'up' 2-3 degrees on each side. IIRC correctly this > increased performance. What's the experience/advice from those who are > flying? > > Deems Davis # 406 > 'Its all done....and it's almost put together.....' > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:49 PM PST US From: John Gonzalez Subject: RV10-List: Up on its' gear Can someone give me a measurement of how high the fuse bottom is off the gr ound while the plane is on it's gear.I need to barrow a pallet jack to rais e my fuse holder off the ground and I want to barrow it and return it in th e same day.Thanks=2CJOhn G. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:14 PM PST US From: "Steve Mills" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Up on its' gear Mine is 27", measured at the landing gear. Steve Mills _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 8:11 PM Subject: RV10-List: Up on its' gear Can someone give me a measurement of how high the fuse bottom is off the ground while the plane is on it's gear. I need to barrow a pallet jack to raise my fuse holder off the ground and I want to barrow it and return it in the same day. Thanks, JOhn G. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:18 PM PST US From: "Rene" Subject: RV10-List: Matco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle Rene' 801-721-6080 Got an e-mail from Matco today saying they charged my CC, so I gave them a call and yes they were preparing to ship a whole bunch of the axles. Since I am only about 20 miles from them I just asked them to hold mine and ran down and got it. Very nice company to work with. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:02 PM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: Parking brake Myron, I think the parking brake is a 'no-brainer'. I assume that Van's is selling the Matco unit. The installation is straight forward, as far as seals go, The unit is fairly simple and easily serviced. I doubt that you will have a leak in the airplanes useful life. Do it! (its only money!) Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:04 PM PST US From: Kevin Belue Subject: Re: RV10-List: Parking brake I installed the Matco parking brake in my RV10 and it didn't leak until I started using my brakes for engine runup. Then it started leaking out of the valve (not the fittings), so I removed it. Kevin Belue Sent from my iPhone On Feb 6, 2009, at 8:55 PM, Deems Davis wrote: > > Myron, I think the parking brake is a 'no-brainer'. I assume that > Van's is selling the Matco unit. The installation is straight > forward, as far as seals go, The unit is fairly simple and easily > serviced. I doubt that you will have a leak in the airplanes useful > life. Do it! (its only money!) > > Deems Davis # 406 > 'Its all done....Its just not put together' > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:27 PM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: Parking brake Wow, That's news, I wonder if others have also had the same problem? Looking at the parts diagram it looks like you should be able to replace the 3 O-rings fairly easily.http://matco.veracart.com/pdf/mastercylinder23a.pdf I wonder if you could get the Vitron O-rings this size? Deems Kevin Belue wrote: > > I installed the Matco parking brake in my RV10 and it didn't leak > until I started using my brakes for engine runup. Then it started > leaking out of the valve (not the fittings), so I removed it. > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:08 PM PST US From: "Fred Williams, M.D." Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aileron rigging - Reflex ? Deems; Put the flaps up in the reflex position and then line up the ailerons. You really have to have the wingtips on before you can set the ailerons. The cruise position is to have everything in the "reflex" position. Alex D. taught me to drop the flaps from the reflex to the neutral on downwind. It helps slow you down. Fred Cant wait to see you get done. Deems Davis wrote: > > I have the flaps and ailerons mounted to the wing and the wing is > attached to the fuse. (I don't have the wing tips on yet). It's > pretty straight forward to align the ailerons with the trailing edges > of each flap. However, I recall somewhere seeing/hearing about a > 'reflex' position where the ailerons were rigged 'up' 2-3 degrees on > each side. IIRC correctly this increased performance. What's the > experience/advice from those who are flying? > > Deems Davis # 406 > 'Its all done....and it's almost put together.....' > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:51 PM PST US From: Kevin Belue Subject: Re: RV10-List: Parking brake Yes, I was thinking it would be easy to repair, but after the pain of getting to it and removing it, I decided to not go through that again and left it out. It is really in a difficult place to access once everything is finished. I mounted mine the same as most of you did- in place of the bracket that holds the brake lines to the firewall. I hope you guys have better luck than I did. Kevin Belue Sent from my iPhone On Feb 6, 2009, at 9:49 PM, Deems Davis wrote: > > Wow, That's news, I wonder if others have also had the same problem? > Looking at the parts diagram it looks like you should be able to > replace the 3 O-rings fairly easily.http://matco.veracart.com/pdf/ > mastercylinder23a.pdf > I wonder if you could get the Vitron O-rings this size? > > Deems > > > Kevin Belue wrote: >> >> I installed the Matco parking brake in my RV10 and it didn't leak >> until I started using my brakes for engine runup. Then it started >> leaking out of the valve (not the fittings), so I removed it. >> > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:36 PM PST US From: "pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Parking brake I would let Matco know of this. I think they would make it right based on my experience with them thus far. Also if there is an issue, which I can't figure out why the valve would fail so soon then they need to be aware of it. Since yours is out already no harm calling Matco explaining the issue and seeing if they will RMA and fix for you and figure out why the valves are leaking. P -------------------------------------------------- From: "Deems Davis" Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 7:49 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Parking brake > > Wow, That's news, I wonder if others have also had the same problem? > Looking at the parts diagram it looks like you should be able to replace > the 3 O-rings fairly > easily.http://matco.veracart.com/pdf/mastercylinder23a.pdf > I wonder if you could get the Vitron O-rings this size? > > Deems > > > Kevin Belue wrote: >> >> I installed the Matco parking brake in my RV10 and it didn't leak until I >> started using my brakes for engine runup. Then it started leaking out of >> the valve (not the fittings), so I removed it. >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.