---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/16/09: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:33 AM - Re: Stock Lycoming (Bob and Karen Brown) 2. 05:05 AM - Re: Stock Lycoming (Tim Olson) 3. 06:40 AM - Re: Stock Lycoming (Kelly McMullen) 4. 06:48 AM - Re: Stock Lycoming (jim@CombsFive.Com) 5. 06:54 AM - Re: Stock Lycoming (Tim Olson) 6. 07:17 AM - Re: SilPruf window removal (Carl Froehlich) 7. 07:50 AM - Re: SilPruf window removal (Danny Riggs) 8. 07:51 AM - Re: Stock Lycoming (Dave Leikam) 9. 07:53 AM - Re: AML34 connectors (Bill Mauledriver Watson) 10. 08:19 AM - Re: Stock Lycoming (Scott Schmidt) 11. 08:47 AM - Re: Stock Lycoming (David McNeill) 12. 08:53 AM - Re: SilPruf window removal (Dave Saylor) 13. 08:53 AM - Re: SilPruf window removal (Dave Saylor) 14. 08:58 AM - Re: Stock Lycoming (Tim Olson) 15. 09:04 AM - Alaska summer 2010 (David McNeill) 16. 09:12 AM - Re: Stock Lycoming (Dave Saylor) 17. 10:06 AM - Re: SilPruf window removal (Danny Riggs) 18. 10:17 AM - Re: SilPruf window removal (Lenny Iszak) 19. 10:23 AM - Re: Stock Lycoming (Robin Marks) 20. 10:51 AM - Re: Stock Lycoming (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 21. 10:58 AM - Re: Stock Lycoming (Tim Olson) 22. 11:59 AM - Re: Re: SilPruf window removal (Danny Riggs) 23. 01:45 PM - Re: VA-186 Oil cooler box (AirMike) 24. 03:17 PM - NACA vent part # (Perry Casson) 25. 03:51 PM - Drilling Mid and tailcone Longerons (Y-it) 26. 04:06 PM - Re: Gasket between airbox and fuel injection system (John Dunne) 27. 04:35 PM - Re: NACA vent part # (Tim Olson) 28. 04:55 PM - Re: Drilling Mid and tailcone Longerons (egohr1) 29. 06:25 PM - Re: NACA vent part # (Lenny Iszak) 30. 07:10 PM - Re: Re: SilPruf window removal (Dave Saylor) 31. 07:38 PM - Re: Drilling Mid and tailcone Longerons (Michael Kraus) 32. 08:09 PM - Re: NACA vent part # (Perry Casson) 33. 08:30 PM - Re: SilPruf window removal (Lenny Iszak) 34. 09:24 PM - Re: Drilling Mid and tailcone Longerons (Y-it) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:13 AM PST US From: "Bob and Karen Brown" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming How many degrees lean of peak do you normally run at in typical cruise settings? An example of fuel flow would be helpful. On my 7 for instance, I typically lean to a fuel flow (say 7.5 gph) at a given cruise power setting and density altitude, knowing that particular fuel flow will put me 40 or 50 degrees LOP. It's a quicker setup than trying to lean to a specific LOP number. I was just wondering how many degrees LOP you end up at. It's cool that your temps (and by inference, your fuel flows) are balanced at those LOP settings. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 5:56 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming Hundreds of hours running LOP on my Bendix system and all is well. There are some things you can do to better balance your injectors, and some places will work with you on it. Bart at Aerosport has always had an open offer with me to swap injectors to balance the fuel flows as best I can. He balanced them originally. They have worked so good I haven't yet taken the time to see how much more perfect I can get them. It runs really well LOP. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Dave Leikam wrote: > I am close to ordering my engine. I originally wanted a BPE engine. In > order to save $$ I am now leaning toward a stock XIO-540 and Hartzell > prop combo from Van's. I am looking for opinions on this decision > regarding engine reliability, LOP operation with Bendix injection > system, smoothness and overall performance compared to the BPE or other > engine shop engine. I will probably install an ElectroAir ignition with > one mag. Thanks in advance for the input. > > Dave Leikam > RV-10 #40496 > N89DA (Reserved) > Muskego, WI > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:00 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming I try to get the power set to 65% or less, then I lean to at least 25 degrees LOP on the richest cylinder (last to peak). So I may have it set anywhere from 25-70 degrees LOP depending on the day. You do feel the power come back if you take it further LOP than necessary. But, I always lean using the EFIS as an initial starting point, because then I don't have to worry so much about what density altitude and conditions I'm in. I do try to avoid EGT's that stretch too far above 1400, so if that means leaning to 40 or 60 LOP on a particular day, I usually do, and typically I end up with maybe one or two that are pretty close to 1400. Considering that I don't run LOP under about 7,000', my fuel flows are almost always 10gph or less....maybe 10.5 max, but I don't see that often. Usually 10.1 down into the 7's, depending on altitude. Common would be 8.5-10gph, as I don't get up in that 14,000-15,000' range too often. At altitudes running 10gph or so, I may commonly see 160-165kts TAS. If I'm leaner than normal, or higher, I can get down even to 155kts TAS or anywhere in that 154-165kt range. It's always an easy 3gph or more less than if I were running ROP, and generally costs me somewhere around 8 kts. The range stretches incredibly though, and I flight plan 160, and use the added range I get with LOP to give me fuel margins on my planned stops. It's really not hard to have 4.5-5 hr legs running LOP, or even more. But, you have to remember you're going to need higher flows once you start down out of altitude. The temps are nice and cool on the CHT's all the time running LOP. I would just lean to a fuel flow, and once I'm set up, I do actually use fuel flow to manage temps, but I'm hesitant to JUST use fuel flow because there are just too many variables that affect it. I figure with today's power in the EFIS's, I should use them. The Chelton's have a great leaning tool built into the engine page. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Bob and Karen Brown wrote: > > How many degrees lean of peak do you normally run at in typical cruise > settings? An example of fuel flow would be helpful. On my 7 for instance, I > typically lean to a fuel flow (say 7.5 gph) at a given cruise power setting > and density altitude, knowing that particular fuel flow will put me 40 or 50 > degrees LOP. It's a quicker setup than trying to lean to a specific LOP > number. I was just wondering how many degrees LOP you end up at. It's cool > that your temps (and by inference, your fuel flows) are balanced at those > LOP settings. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 5:56 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming > > > Hundreds of hours running LOP on my Bendix system and all is well. > There are some things you can do to better balance your injectors, > and some places will work with you on it. Bart at Aerosport > has always had an open offer with me to swap injectors to balance > the fuel flows as best I can. He balanced them originally. > They have worked so good I haven't yet taken the time to see > how much more perfect I can get them. It runs really well > LOP. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > Dave Leikam wrote: >> I am close to ordering my engine. I originally wanted a BPE engine. In >> order to save $$ I am now leaning toward a stock XIO-540 and Hartzell >> prop combo from Van's. I am looking for opinions on this decision >> regarding engine reliability, LOP operation with Bendix injection >> system, smoothness and overall performance compared to the BPE or other >> engine shop engine. I will probably install an ElectroAir ignition with >> one mag. Thanks in advance for the input. >> >> Dave Leikam >> RV-10 #40496 >> N89DA (Reserved) >> Muskego, WI >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming From: Kelly McMullen Hmm, I guess I worry a bit less with my IO-360. I'll run LOP anytime above 4000 ft and 75% or less. I set the amount LOP based on power generated. The closer to 75% the leaner I want to be, maybe 40 LOP. At 70% or less, I'll run between 0-10 LOP, because that is where my engine runs smoothest, EGT and CHT temps are closest together. My engine runs cool, often in the 280-290 range, rarely above 330 in cruise. Only if EGT or CHT on a cylinder goes unexpectedly high will I abandon LOP or go significantly leaner. I don't worry about how high peak EGT goes, as I have never seen it over 1500, and it isn't a limiting factor for normally aspirated engines. Depending on OAT, peak may be anywhere from low to high 1400s. With the normally aspirated engines, the red box is somewhat smaller than for turbos, and you mainly are protecting against long term impacts of high internal combustion pressures, rather than detonation per se. From what I recall from Walt Atkinson of APS, they haven't generated true detonation on a normally aspirated engine running 100LL with stock compression ratios of 8.7 to 1 or less. I would guess you would have to be more conservative with higher compression ratios. Kelly On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 5:59 AM, Tim Olson wrote: > > I try to get the power set to 65% or less, then I lean to at least > 25 degrees LOP on the richest cylinder (last to peak). So I may > have it set anywhere from 25-70 degrees LOP depending on the day. > You do feel the power come back if you take it further LOP than > necessary. But, I always lean using the EFIS as an initial starting > point, because then I don't have to worry so much about what > density altitude and conditions I'm in. I do try to avoid EGT's > that stretch too far above 1400, so if that means leaning to > 40 or 60 LOP on a particular day, I usually do, and typically > I end up with maybe one or two that are pretty close to 1400. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:48 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming From: jim@CombsFive.Com Tim, You are so right about the EFIS systems and the amount of information they present. I am still learning about the engine and what is "Right". But the information presented is fantastic. At first it is overwhelming, but you soon learn what to look at and what to let the computer monitor for you. The Advanced Flight Systems EFIS also has a tool for leaning. It's easy to use. Based on what I have seen of the many EFIS systems, I just can't image anyone building and not going the EFIS route. There are many really fantastic systems out there. Is it time to do another "Poll" of the population and see what people are doing? Jim Combs N312F - Flying - Still in Phase I (32 hours) Do Not Archive I try to get the power set to 65% or less, then I lean to at least 25 degrees LOP on the richest cylinder (last to peak). So I may have it set anywhere from 25-70 degrees LOP depending on the day. You do feel the power come back if you take it further LOP than necessary. But, I always lean using the EFIS as an initial starting point, because then I don't have to worry so much about what density altitude and conditions I'm in. I do try to avoid EGT's that stretch too far above 1400, so if that means leaning to 40 or 60 LOP on a particular day, I usually do, and typically I end up with maybe one or two that are pretty close to 1400. Considering that I don't run LOP under about 7,000', my fuel flows are almost always 10gph or less....maybe 10.5 max, but I don't see that often. Usually 10.1 down into the 7's, depending on altitude. Common would be 8.5-10gph, as I don't get up in that 14,000-15,000' range too often. At altitudes running 10gph or so, I may commonly see 160-165kts TAS. If I'm leaner than normal, or higher, I can get down even to 155kts TAS or anywhere in that 154-165kt range. It's always an easy 3gph or more less than if I were running ROP, and generally costs me somewhere around 8 kts. The range stretches incredibly though, and I flight plan 160, and use the added range I get with LOP to give me fuel margins on my planned stops. It's really not hard to have 4.5-5 hr legs running LOP, or even more. But, you have to remember you're going to need higher flows once you start down out of altitude. The temps are nice and cool on the CHT's all the time running LOP. I would just lean to a fuel flow, and once I'm set up, I do actually use fuel flow to manage temps, but I'm hesitant to JUST use fuel flow because there are just too many variables that affect it. I figure with today's power in the EFIS's, I should use them. The Chelton's have a great leaning tool built into the engine page. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Bob and Karen Brown wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob and Karen Brown" > > > How many degrees lean of peak do you normally run at in typical cruise > settings? An example of fuel flow would be helpful. On my 7 for > instance, I > typically lean to a fuel flow (say 7.5 gph) at a given cruise power > setting > and density altitude, knowing that particular fuel flow will put me 40 > or 50 > degrees LOP. It's a quicker setup than trying to lean to a specific LOP > number. I was just wondering how many degrees LOP you end up at. It's > cool > that your temps (and by inference, your fuel flows) are balanced at > those > LOP settings. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 5:56 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming > > > Hundreds of hours running LOP on my Bendix system and all is well. > There are some things you can do to better balance your injectors, > and some places will work with you on it. Bart at Aerosport > has always had an open offer with me to swap injectors to balance > the fuel flows as best I can. He balanced them originally. > They have worked so good I haven't yet taken the time to see > how much more perfect I can get them. It runs really well > LOP. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > Dave Leikam wrote: >> I am close to ordering my engine. I originally wanted a BPE engine. >> In >> order to save $$ I am now leaning toward a stock XIO-540 and Hartzell >> prop combo from Van's. I am looking for opinions on this decision >> regarding engine reliability, LOP operation with Bendix injection >> system, smoothness and overall performance compared to the BPE or other >> engine shop engine. I will probably install an ElectroAir ignition >> with >> one mag. Thanks in advance for the input. >> >> Dave Leikam >> RV-10 #40496 >> N89DA (Reserved) >> Muskego, WI >> > > List Features Navigator to browse List Un/Subscription, Browse, Chat, FAQ, - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - available via the Web Forums! http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - generous support! Admin. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:58 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming I agree totally. I am just pretty conservative and don't fly for best speed...more for economy. I have 8.5:1 pistons. I know I could push it a little more, but in general I figure that if I do it how I am, I'm giving some pretty good margins against any worry. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Hmm, > I guess I worry a bit less with my IO-360. I'll run LOP anytime above > 4000 ft and 75% or less. I set the amount LOP based on power > generated. The closer to 75% the leaner I want to be, maybe 40 LOP. At > 70% or less, I'll run between 0-10 LOP, because that is where my > engine runs smoothest, EGT and CHT temps are closest together. My > engine runs cool, often in the 280-290 range, rarely above 330 in > cruise. Only if EGT or CHT on a cylinder goes unexpectedly high will > I abandon LOP or go significantly leaner. > I don't worry about how high peak EGT goes, as I have never seen it > over 1500, and it isn't a limiting factor for normally aspirated > engines. Depending on OAT, peak may be anywhere from low to high > 1400s. > With the normally aspirated engines, the red box is somewhat smaller > than for turbos, and you mainly are protecting against long term > impacts of high internal combustion pressures, rather than detonation > per se. From what I recall from Walt Atkinson of APS, they haven't > generated true detonation on a normally aspirated engine running 100LL > with stock compression ratios of 8.7 to 1 or less. I would guess you > would have to be more conservative with higher compression ratios. > Kelly > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 5:59 AM, Tim Olson wrote: >> >> I try to get the power set to 65% or less, then I lean to at least >> 25 degrees LOP on the richest cylinder (last to peak). So I may >> have it set anywhere from 25-70 degrees LOP depending on the day. >> You do feel the power come back if you take it further LOP than >> necessary. But, I always lean using the EFIS as an initial starting >> point, because then I don't have to worry so much about what >> density altitude and conditions I'm in. I do try to avoid EGT's >> that stretch too far above 1400, so if that means leaning to >> 40 or 60 LOP on a particular day, I usually do, and typically >> I end up with maybe one or two that are pretty close to 1400. > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:21 AM PST US From: "Carl Froehlich" Subject: RE: RV10-List: SilPruf window removal Dave, Did you use this on the windshield as well? Any photos? Carl Froehlich From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 10:24 PM Subject: RV10-List: SilPruf window removal A few people have asked about removing a window that was installed with SilPruf. The weatherman said this would be a good time to take the plane down for a few days, so I decided to replace our sun-damaged window. I pulled a little plug of sealant out of the groove on the outside. I was able to pretty easily put a piece of .020 safety wire through the sealant from the inside and fish it out from the outside. Then I just pulled the wire around the perimeter of the window. It took 10 minutes to get the window out. I cleaned up the old sealant with a scraper and some Scotchbrite, and installed the new window like the others. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:58 AM PST US From: Danny Riggs Subject: RE: RV10-List: SilPruf window removal Any suggestions as to where to buy this stuff? Their web site wasn't very h elpful. Thanks=2C Dan From: carl.froehlich@cox.net Subject: RE: RV10-List: SilPruf window removal Dave=2C Did you use this on the windshield as well? Any photos? Carl Froehlich From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor Sent: Sunday=2C February 15=2C 2009 10:24 PM Subject: RV10-List: SilPruf window removal A few people have asked about removing a window that was installed with Sil Pruf. The weatherman said this would be a good time to take the plane down for a few days=2C so I decided to replace our sun-damaged window. I pulled a little plug of sealant out of the groove on the outside. I was able to pretty easily put a piece of .020 safety wire through the sealant f rom the inside and fish it out from the outside. Then I just pulled the wi re around the perimeter of the window. It took 10 minutes to get the windo w out. I cleaned up the old sealant with a scraper and some Scotchbrite=2C and ins talled the new window like the others. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville=2C CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people=2C information=2C and fun that are part of your life. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:39 AM PST US From: "Dave Leikam" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming Considering all the usual variables, what kind of average range would you say you get with the 10? Longest ever? Would you say having the cylinders flow matched etc. has any affect on efficiency or LOP operation? Dave L. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:59 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming > > I try to get the power set to 65% or less, then I lean to at least > 25 degrees LOP on the richest cylinder (last to peak). So I may > have it set anywhere from 25-70 degrees LOP depending on the day. > You do feel the power come back if you take it further LOP than > necessary. But, I always lean using the EFIS as an initial starting > point, because then I don't have to worry so much about what > density altitude and conditions I'm in. I do try to avoid EGT's > that stretch too far above 1400, so if that means leaning to > 40 or 60 LOP on a particular day, I usually do, and typically > I end up with maybe one or two that are pretty close to 1400. > Considering that I don't run LOP under about 7,000', my fuel > flows are almost always 10gph or less....maybe 10.5 max, but > I don't see that often. Usually 10.1 down into the 7's, depending > on altitude. Common would be 8.5-10gph, as I don't get up in that > 14,000-15,000' range too often. At altitudes running 10gph > or so, I may commonly see 160-165kts TAS. If I'm leaner than > normal, or higher, I can get down even to 155kts TAS or > anywhere in that 154-165kt range. It's always an easy 3gph or > more less than if I were running ROP, and generally costs me > somewhere around 8 kts. The range stretches incredibly though, > and I flight plan 160, and use the added range I get with LOP > to give me fuel margins on my planned stops. It's really not > hard to have 4.5-5 hr legs running LOP, or even more. But, > you have to remember you're going to need higher flows once > you start down out of altitude. The temps are nice and cool > on the CHT's all the time running LOP. I would just lean to > a fuel flow, and once I'm set up, I do actually use fuel flow > to manage temps, but I'm hesitant to JUST use fuel flow because > there are just too many variables that affect it. I figure > with today's power in the EFIS's, I should use them. The Chelton's > have a great leaning tool built into the engine page. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > Bob and Karen Brown wrote: >> >> >> How many degrees lean of peak do you normally run at in typical cruise >> settings? An example of fuel flow would be helpful. On my 7 for >> instance, I >> typically lean to a fuel flow (say 7.5 gph) at a given cruise power >> setting >> and density altitude, knowing that particular fuel flow will put me 40 or >> 50 >> degrees LOP. It's a quicker setup than trying to lean to a specific LOP >> number. I was just wondering how many degrees LOP you end up at. It's >> cool >> that your temps (and by inference, your fuel flows) are balanced at those >> LOP settings. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson >> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 5:56 PM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming >> >> >> Hundreds of hours running LOP on my Bendix system and all is well. >> There are some things you can do to better balance your injectors, >> and some places will work with you on it. Bart at Aerosport >> has always had an open offer with me to swap injectors to balance >> the fuel flows as best I can. He balanced them originally. >> They have worked so good I haven't yet taken the time to see >> how much more perfect I can get them. It runs really well >> LOP. >> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying >> do not archive >> >> >> Dave Leikam wrote: >>> I am close to ordering my engine. I originally wanted a BPE engine. In >>> order to save $$ I am now leaning toward a stock XIO-540 and Hartzell >>> prop combo from Van's. I am looking for opinions on this decision >>> regarding engine reliability, LOP operation with Bendix injection >>> system, smoothness and overall performance compared to the BPE or other >>> engine shop engine. I will probably install an ElectroAir ignition with >>> one mag. Thanks in advance for the input. >>> Dave Leikam >>> RV-10 #40496 >>> N89DA (Reserved) >>> Muskego, WI >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:12 AM PST US From: Bill Mauledriver Watson Subject: Re: RV10-List: AML34 connectors Assuming you have the right width, I encountered the same problem with some Faston's from McMasters. I have been able to give them a gentle squeeze with pliers to tighten them up. As other's mentioned, it's easy to over-tighten too. Wayne Williams wrote: > > What connectors should I use for the Honeywell AML34 rocker switches? The > common 1/4" Fast Ons are too loose. Thanks. > > Wayne > rwayne@gamewood.net > > Checked by AVG. > 6:01 PM > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:58 AM PST US From: Scott Schmidt Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming At 12,500 (about 19 inches) I burn 9.2 gph running just as Tim mentioned. My cylinder temps drop to 300 or less running this way. Scott Schmidt scottmschmidt@yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Tim Olson Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:59:23 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming I try to get the power set to 65% or less, then I lean to at least 25 degrees LOP on the richest cylinder (last to peak). So I may have it set anywhere from 25-70 degrees LOP depending on the day. You do feel the power come back if you take it further LOP than necessary. But, I always lean using the EFIS as an initial starting point, because then I don't have to worry so much about what density altitude and conditions I'm in. I do try to avoid EGT's that stretch too far above 1400, so if that means leaning to 40 or 60 LOP on a particular day, I usually do, and typically I end up with maybe one or two that are pretty close to 1400. Considering that I don't run LOP under about 7,000', my fuel flows are almost always 10gph or less....maybe 10.5 max, but I don't see that often. Usually 10.1 down into the 7's, depending on altitude. Common would be 8.5-10gph, as I don't get up in that 14,000-15,000' range too often. At altitudes running 10gph or so, I may commonly see 160-165kts TAS. If I'm leaner than normal, or higher, I can get down even to 155kts TAS or anywhere in that 154-165kt range. It's always an easy 3gph or more less than if I were running ROP, and generally costs me somewhere around 8 kts. The range stretches incredibly though, and I flight plan 160, and use the added range I get with LOP to give me fuel margins on my planned stops. It's really not hard to have 4.5-5 hr legs running LOP, or even more. But, you have to remember you're going to need higher flows once you start down out of altitude. The temps are nice and cool on the CHT's all the time running LOP. I would just lean to a fuel flow, and once I'm set up, I do actually use fuel flow to manage temps, but I'm hesitant to JUST use fuel flow because there are just too many variables that affect it. I figure with today's power in the EFIS's, I should use them. The Chelton's have a great leaning tool built into the engine page. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Bob and Karen Brown wrote: > > How many degrees lean of peak do you normally run at in typical cruise > settings? An example of fuel flow would be helpful. On my 7 for instance, I > typically lean to a fuel flow (say 7.5 gph) at a given cruise power setting > and density altitude, knowing that particular fuel flow will put me 40 or 50 > degrees LOP. It's a quicker setup than trying to lean to a specific LOP > number. I was just wondering how many degrees LOP you end up at. It's cool > that your temps (and by inference, your fuel flows) are balanced at those > LOP settings. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 5:56 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming > > > Hundreds of hours running LOP on my Bendix system and all is well. > There are some things you can do to better balance your injectors, > and some places will work with you on it. Bart at Aerosport > has always had an open offer with me to swap injectors to balance > the fuel flows as best I can. He balanced them originally. > They have worked so good I haven't yet taken the time to see > how much more perfect I can get them. It runs really well > LOP. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > Dave Leikam wrote: >> I am close to ordering my engine. I originally wanted a BPE engine. In order to save $$ I am now leaning toward a stock XIO-540 and Hartzell prop combo from Van's. I am looking for opinions on this decision regarding engine reliability, LOP operation with Bendix injection system, smoothness and overall performance compared to the BPE or other engine shop engine. I will probably install an ElectroAir ignition with one mag. Thanks in advance for the input. >> Dave Leikam >> RV-10 #40496 >> N89DA (Reserved) >> Muskego, WI >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:52 AM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming The GRT EFIS and engine monitor also have a LEAN function which show both graphically and in digital form the first and last cylinders to peak. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim@CombsFive.Com Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 7:48 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming Tim, You are so right about the EFIS systems and the amount of information they present. I am still learning about the engine and what is "Right". But the information presented is fantastic. At first it is overwhelming, but you soon learn what to look at and what to let the computer monitor for you. The Advanced Flight Systems EFIS also has a tool for leaning. It's easy to use. Based on what I have seen of the many EFIS systems, I just can't image anyone building and not going the EFIS route. There are many really fantastic systems out there. Is it time to do another "Poll" of the population and see what people are doing? Jim Combs N312F - Flying - Still in Phase I (32 hours) Do Not Archive I try to get the power set to 65% or less, then I lean to at least 25 degrees LOP on the richest cylinder (last to peak). So I may have it set anywhere from 25-70 degrees LOP depending on the day. You do feel the power come back if you take it further LOP than necessary. But, I always lean using the EFIS as an initial starting point, because then I don't have to worry so much about what density altitude and conditions I'm in. I do try to avoid EGT's that stretch too far above 1400, so if that means leaning to 40 or 60 LOP on a particular day, I usually do, and typically I end up with maybe one or two that are pretty close to 1400. Considering that I don't run LOP under about 7,000', my fuel flows are almost always 10gph or less....maybe 10.5 max, but I don't see that often. Usually 10.1 down into the 7's, depending on altitude. Common would be 8.5-10gph, as I don't get up in that 14,000-15,000' range too often. At altitudes running 10gph or so, I may commonly see 160-165kts TAS. If I'm leaner than normal, or higher, I can get down even to 155kts TAS or anywhere in that 154-165kt range. It's always an easy 3gph or more less than if I were running ROP, and generally costs me somewhere around 8 kts. The range stretches incredibly though, and I flight plan 160, and use the added range I get with LOP to give me fuel margins on my planned stops. It's really not hard to have 4.5-5 hr legs running LOP, or even more. But, you have to remember you're going to need higher flows once you start down out of altitude. The temps are nice and cool on the CHT's all the time running LOP. I would just lean to a fuel flow, and once I'm set up, I do actually use fuel flow to manage temps, but I'm hesitant to JUST use fuel flow because there are just too many variables that affect it. I figure with today's power in the EFIS's, I should use them. The Chelton's have a great leaning tool built into the engine page. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Bob and Karen Brown wrote: > > > How many degrees lean of peak do you normally run at in typical cruise > settings? An example of fuel flow would be helpful. On my 7 for > instance, I > typically lean to a fuel flow (say 7.5 gph) at a given cruise power > setting > and density altitude, knowing that particular fuel flow will put me 40 > or 50 > degrees LOP. It's a quicker setup than trying to lean to a specific LOP > number. I was just wondering how many degrees LOP you end up at. It's > cool > that your temps (and by inference, your fuel flows) are balanced at > those > LOP settings. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 5:56 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming > > > Hundreds of hours running LOP on my Bendix system and all is well. > There are some things you can do to better balance your injectors, > and some places will work with you on it. Bart at Aerosport > has always had an open offer with me to swap injectors to balance > the fuel flows as best I can. He balanced them originally. > They have worked so good I haven't yet taken the time to see > how much more perfect I can get them. It runs really well > LOP. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > Dave Leikam wrote: >> I am close to ordering my engine. I originally wanted a BPE engine. >> In >> order to save $$ I am now leaning toward a stock XIO-540 and Hartzell >> prop combo from Van's. I am looking for opinions on this decision >> regarding engine reliability, LOP operation with Bendix injection >> system, smoothness and overall performance compared to the BPE or other >> engine shop engine. I will probably install an ElectroAir ignition >> with >> one mag. Thanks in advance for the input. >> >> Dave Leikam >> RV-10 #40496 >> N89DA (Reserved) >> Muskego, WI >> > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:58 AM PST US From: "Dave Saylor" Subject: RE: RV10-List: SilPruf window removal I didn't use it on the windshield because of the time involved in molding a joggle into the lower section. It could be done, but it would be a lot of work. I might consider it if I ever had to remove the windshield. do not archive Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 7:16 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: SilPruf window removal Dave, Did you use this on the windshield as well? Any photos? Carl Froehlich From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 10:24 PM Subject: RV10-List: SilPruf window removal A few people have asked about removing a window that was installed with SilPruf. The weatherman said this would be a good time to take the plane down for a few days, so I decided to replace our sun-damaged window. I pulled a little plug of sealant out of the groove on the outside. I was able to pretty easily put a piece of .020 safety wire through the sealant from the inside and fish it out from the outside. Then I just pulled the wire around the perimeter of the window. It took 10 minutes to get the window out. I cleaned up the old sealant with a scraper and some Scotchbrite, and installed the new window like the others. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:58 AM PST US From: "Dave Saylor" Subject: RE: RV10-List: SilPruf window removal I get if from these guys: http://www.halowry.com/ Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 7:45 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: SilPruf window removal Any suggestions as to where to buy this stuff? Their web site wasn't very helpful. Thanks, Dan _____ From: carl.froehlich@cox.net Subject: RE: RV10-List: SilPruf window removal Dave, Did you use this on the windshield as well? Any photos? Carl Froehlich From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 10:24 PM Subject: RV10-List: SilPruf window removal A few people have asked about removing a window that was installed with SilPruf. The weatherman said this would be a good time to take the plane down for a few days, so I decided to replace our sun-damaged window. I pulled a little plug of sealant out of the groove on the outside. I was able to pretty easily put a piece of .020 safety wire through the sealant from the inside and fish it out from the outside. Then I just pulled the wire around the perimeter of the window. It took 10 minutes to get the window out. I cleaned up the old sealant with a scraper and some Scotchbrite, and installed the new window like the others. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution _____ See how Windows connects the people, informa/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/' target='_new'>See Now ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:29 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming I don't know what I've used for a longest range so far. I think somewhere in the 5 or 5.5 hour leg range, so maybe 750-800nm. The plane is capable of more if you fly it higher. You'll find great economies above 12,000', and really good ones between 8,000-12,000'. If a person had the want, it's not hard to do OSH to Atlanta or more. I know Jesse has done something like OSH to Florida, right Jesse? I myself have really never landed with less than 12 gallons or so of fuel, so I don't push the range as much as I could. If I had extended range tanks I'd feel better about using up all 60 gallons, but I like knowing that there is plenty of fuel, more than the legal reserves, and I consider that at ROP settings....so 12 gallons is just under an hour....or if you pull back the power, maybe a little more than an hour. The RV-10 can cover a lot of ground in an hour. I've often taken off and seen my range be 500-700nm, but once I have reached cruising altitude (if it were higher), and started leaning, the range pushes to over 1000nm with reserves (at that fuel flow). Heck, think about it...at 8.5gph, you're looking at a 6 hour range with 1 hour reserve at LOP settings, so you could do a 900nm leg if you wish. I don't know if flow matched cylinders give all that much benefit. My original ECI Titans had special valve cuts and stuff done at Aerosport. The new ones I got after the SB/AD came with a "venturi cut" valve or something like that. Seems to me the cylinder run the same, and those are stock ECI Titans. I've heard that the benefits are fairly minimal on our Lycs. Now, flow matching the injectors is another story. Bart did mine originally. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Dave Leikam wrote: > > Considering all the usual variables, what kind of average range would > you say you get with the 10? Longest ever? Would you say having the > cylinders flow matched etc. has any affect on efficiency or LOP operation? > > Dave L. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:59 AM > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming > > >> >> I try to get the power set to 65% or less, then I lean to at least >> 25 degrees LOP on the richest cylinder (last to peak). So I may >> have it set anywhere from 25-70 degrees LOP depending on the day. >> You do feel the power come back if you take it further LOP than >> necessary. But, I always lean using the EFIS as an initial starting >> point, because then I don't have to worry so much about what >> density altitude and conditions I'm in. I do try to avoid EGT's >> that stretch too far above 1400, so if that means leaning to >> 40 or 60 LOP on a particular day, I usually do, and typically >> I end up with maybe one or two that are pretty close to 1400. >> Considering that I don't run LOP under about 7,000', my fuel >> flows are almost always 10gph or less....maybe 10.5 max, but >> I don't see that often. Usually 10.1 down into the 7's, depending >> on altitude. Common would be 8.5-10gph, as I don't get up in that >> 14,000-15,000' range too often. At altitudes running 10gph >> or so, I may commonly see 160-165kts TAS. If I'm leaner than >> normal, or higher, I can get down even to 155kts TAS or >> anywhere in that 154-165kt range. It's always an easy 3gph or >> more less than if I were running ROP, and generally costs me >> somewhere around 8 kts. The range stretches incredibly though, >> and I flight plan 160, and use the added range I get with LOP >> to give me fuel margins on my planned stops. It's really not >> hard to have 4.5-5 hr legs running LOP, or even more. But, >> you have to remember you're going to need higher flows once >> you start down out of altitude. The temps are nice and cool >> on the CHT's all the time running LOP. I would just lean to >> a fuel flow, and once I'm set up, I do actually use fuel flow >> to manage temps, but I'm hesitant to JUST use fuel flow because >> there are just too many variables that affect it. I figure >> with today's power in the EFIS's, I should use them. The Chelton's >> have a great leaning tool built into the engine page. >> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying >> do not archive >> >> >> Bob and Karen Brown wrote: >>> >>> >>> How many degrees lean of peak do you normally run at in typical cruise >>> settings? An example of fuel flow would be helpful. On my 7 for >>> instance, I >>> typically lean to a fuel flow (say 7.5 gph) at a given cruise power >>> setting >>> and density altitude, knowing that particular fuel flow will put me >>> 40 or 50 >>> degrees LOP. It's a quicker setup than trying to lean to a specific LOP >>> number. I was just wondering how many degrees LOP you end up at. >>> It's cool >>> that your temps (and by inference, your fuel flows) are balanced at >>> those >>> LOP settings. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson >>> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 5:56 PM >>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming >>> >>> >>> Hundreds of hours running LOP on my Bendix system and all is well. >>> There are some things you can do to better balance your injectors, >>> and some places will work with you on it. Bart at Aerosport >>> has always had an open offer with me to swap injectors to balance >>> the fuel flows as best I can. He balanced them originally. >>> They have worked so good I haven't yet taken the time to see >>> how much more perfect I can get them. It runs really well >>> LOP. >>> >>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying >>> do not archive >>> >>> >>> Dave Leikam wrote: >>>> I am close to ordering my engine. I originally wanted a BPE >>>> engine. In order to save $$ I am now leaning toward a stock XIO-540 >>>> and Hartzell prop combo from Van's. I am looking for opinions on >>>> this decision regarding engine reliability, LOP operation with >>>> Bendix injection system, smoothness and overall performance compared >>>> to the BPE or other engine shop engine. I will probably install an >>>> ElectroAir ignition with one mag. Thanks in advance for the input. >>>> Dave Leikam >>>> RV-10 #40496 >>>> N89DA (Reserved) >>>> Muskego, WI >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:36 AM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RV10-List: Alaska summer 2010 I am considering organizing a flying trip (ten planes or less) to Alaska via the ALCAN highway in summer 2010, probably mid June to mid July. My guess that the trip should allow about 5-7 days each way and 7-9 days in Alaska. During the winter all the Canadian snowbirds winter in AZ, so I currently have access to people who have made the trip multiple times. I will get.be getting some of their reference materials. I haven't decided which airplane (Glastar or RV10) to take but certainly the aircraft group would have to be pretty similar to accommodate similar cruise speeds and ranges. Anyone with an interest can contact me directly via email. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:43 AM PST US From: "Dave Saylor" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming I have a stock IO-540 plus porting. LOP fuel flow varies between 10.5-11.0 at 8000 to 9.0-9.5 at 12000. TAS is always about 160 knots, maybe +/- 3 knots. Porting is supposed to get you about a 10% horsepower/effieciency gain, but I can't say for sure I'm seeing that. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 7:51 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming Considering all the usual variables, what kind of average range would you say you get with the 10? Longest ever? Would you say having the cylinders flow matched etc. has any affect on efficiency or LOP operation? Dave L. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:59 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming > > I try to get the power set to 65% or less, then I lean to at least > 25 degrees LOP on the richest cylinder (last to peak). So I may > have it set anywhere from 25-70 degrees LOP depending on the day. > You do feel the power come back if you take it further LOP than > necessary. But, I always lean using the EFIS as an initial starting > point, because then I don't have to worry so much about what > density altitude and conditions I'm in. I do try to avoid EGT's > that stretch too far above 1400, so if that means leaning to > 40 or 60 LOP on a particular day, I usually do, and typically > I end up with maybe one or two that are pretty close to 1400. > Considering that I don't run LOP under about 7,000', my fuel > flows are almost always 10gph or less....maybe 10.5 max, but > I don't see that often. Usually 10.1 down into the 7's, depending > on altitude. Common would be 8.5-10gph, as I don't get up in that > 14,000-15,000' range too often. At altitudes running 10gph > or so, I may commonly see 160-165kts TAS. If I'm leaner than > normal, or higher, I can get down even to 155kts TAS or > anywhere in that 154-165kt range. It's always an easy 3gph or > more less than if I were running ROP, and generally costs me > somewhere around 8 kts. The range stretches incredibly though, > and I flight plan 160, and use the added range I get with LOP > to give me fuel margins on my planned stops. It's really not > hard to have 4.5-5 hr legs running LOP, or even more. But, > you have to remember you're going to need higher flows once > you start down out of altitude. The temps are nice and cool > on the CHT's all the time running LOP. I would just lean to > a fuel flow, and once I'm set up, I do actually use fuel flow > to manage temps, but I'm hesitant to JUST use fuel flow because > there are just too many variables that affect it. I figure > with today's power in the EFIS's, I should use them. The Chelton's > have a great leaning tool built into the engine page. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > Bob and Karen Brown wrote: >> >> >> How many degrees lean of peak do you normally run at in typical cruise >> settings? An example of fuel flow would be helpful. On my 7 for >> instance, I >> typically lean to a fuel flow (say 7.5 gph) at a given cruise power >> setting >> and density altitude, knowing that particular fuel flow will put me 40 or >> 50 >> degrees LOP. It's a quicker setup than trying to lean to a specific LOP >> number. I was just wondering how many degrees LOP you end up at. It's >> cool >> that your temps (and by inference, your fuel flows) are balanced at those >> LOP settings. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson >> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 5:56 PM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming >> >> >> Hundreds of hours running LOP on my Bendix system and all is well. >> There are some things you can do to better balance your injectors, >> and some places will work with you on it. Bart at Aerosport >> has always had an open offer with me to swap injectors to balance >> the fuel flows as best I can. He balanced them originally. >> They have worked so good I haven't yet taken the time to see >> how much more perfect I can get them. It runs really well >> LOP. >> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying >> do not archive >> >> >> Dave Leikam wrote: >>> I am close to ordering my engine. I originally wanted a BPE engine. In >>> order to save $$ I am now leaning toward a stock XIO-540 and Hartzell >>> prop combo from Van's. I am looking for opinions on this decision >>> regarding engine reliability, LOP operation with Bendix injection >>> system, smoothness and overall performance compared to the BPE or other >>> engine shop engine. I will probably install an ElectroAir ignition with >>> one mag. Thanks in advance for the input. >>> Dave Leikam >>> RV-10 #40496 >>> N89DA (Reserved) >>> Muskego, WI >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:12 AM PST US From: Danny Riggs Subject: RE: RV10-List: SilPruf window removal Thanks! From: Dave@AirCraftersLLC.comTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: RV10-L ist: SilPruf window removalDate: Mon=2C 16 Feb 2009 08:52:53 -0800 I get if from these guys: http://www.halowry.com/ Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville=2C CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny RiggsSent: Monday=2C February 16=2C 2009 7 :45 AMTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: RV10-List: SilPruf window rem oval Any suggestions as to where to buy this stuff? Their web site wasn't very h elpful. Thanks=2C Dan From: carl.froehlich@cox.netTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: RV10-Li st: SilPruf window removalDate: Mon=2C 16 Feb 2009 10:15:40 -0500 Dave=2C Did you use this on the windshield as well? Any photos? Carl Froehlich From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave SaylorSent: Sunday=2C February 15=2C 2009 1 0:24 PMTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RV10-List: SilPruf window remova l A few people have asked about removing a window that was installed with Sil Pruf. The weatherman said this would be a good time to take the plane down for a few days=2C so I decided to replace our sun-damaged window. I pulled a little plug of sealant out of the groove on the outside. I was able to pretty easily put a piece of .020 safety wire through the sealant f rom the inside and fish it out from the outside. Then I just pulled the wi re around the perimeter of the window. It took 10 minutes to get the windo w out. I cleaned up the old sealant with a scraper and some Scotchbrite=2C and ins talled the new window like the others. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville=2C CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution See how Windows connects the people=2C informa/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt /direct/01/' target='_new'>See Now href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:08 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: SilPruf window removal From: "Lenny Iszak" I just bought some on Amazon.com. Lenny Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230536#230536 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:48 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming From: "Robin Marks" Tim, Below is the content that is ideal for the Archives (maybe with an updated Subject that contains LOP). Maybe consider removing the Do Not Archive? Robin -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:59 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming I try to get the power set to 65% or less, then I lean to at least 25 degrees LOP on the richest cylinder (last to peak). So I may have it set anywhere from 25-70 degrees LOP depending on the day. You do feel the power come back if you take it further LOP than necessary. But, I always lean using the EFIS as an initial starting point, because then I don't have to worry so much about what density altitude and conditions I'm in. I do try to avoid EGT's that stretch too far above 1400, so if that means leaning to 40 or 60 LOP on a particular day, I usually do, and typically I end up with maybe one or two that are pretty close to 1400. Considering that I don't run LOP under about 7,000', my fuel flows are almost always 10gph or less....maybe 10.5 max, but I don't see that often. Usually 10.1 down into the 7's, depending on altitude. Common would be 8.5-10gph, as I don't get up in that 14,000-15,000' range too often. At altitudes running 10gph or so, I may commonly see 160-165kts TAS. If I'm leaner than normal, or higher, I can get down even to 155kts TAS or anywhere in that 154-165kt range. It's always an easy 3gph or more less than if I were running ROP, and generally costs me somewhere around 8 kts. The range stretches incredibly though, and I flight plan 160, and use the added range I get with LOP to give me fuel margins on my planned stops. It's really not hard to have 4.5-5 hr legs running LOP, or even more. But, you have to remember you're going to need higher flows once you start down out of altitude. The temps are nice and cool on the CHT's all the time running LOP. I would just lean to a fuel flow, and once I'm set up, I do actually use fuel flow to manage temps, but I'm hesitant to JUST use fuel flow because there are just too many variables that affect it. I figure with today's power in the EFIS's, I should use them. The Chelton's have a great leaning tool built into the engine page. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Bob and Karen Brown wrote: > > How many degrees lean of peak do you normally run at in typical cruise > settings? An example of fuel flow would be helpful. On my 7 for instance, I > typically lean to a fuel flow (say 7.5 gph) at a given cruise power setting > and density altitude, knowing that particular fuel flow will put me 40 or 50 > degrees LOP. It's a quicker setup than trying to lean to a specific LOP > number. I was just wondering how many degrees LOP you end up at. It's cool > that your temps (and by inference, your fuel flows) are balanced at those > LOP settings. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 5:56 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming > > > Hundreds of hours running LOP on my Bendix system and all is well. > There are some things you can do to better balance your injectors, > and some places will work with you on it. Bart at Aerosport > has always had an open offer with me to swap injectors to balance > the fuel flows as best I can. He balanced them originally. > They have worked so good I haven't yet taken the time to see > how much more perfect I can get them. It runs really well > LOP. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > Dave Leikam wrote: >> I am close to ordering my engine. I originally wanted a BPE engine. In >> order to save $$ I am now leaning toward a stock XIO-540 and Hartzell >> prop combo from Van's. I am looking for opinions on this decision >> regarding engine reliability, LOP operation with Bendix injection >> system, smoothness and overall performance compared to the BPE or other >> engine shop engine. I will probably install an ElectroAir ignition with >> one mag. Thanks in advance for the input. >> >> Dave Leikam >> RV-10 #40496 >> N89DA (Reserved) >> Muskego, WI >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:24 AM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming Here, let me do it for him. :) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:23 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming Tim, Below is the content that is ideal for the Archives (maybe with an updated Subject that contains LOP). Maybe consider removing the DNA? Robin -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:59 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming I try to get the power set to 65% or less, then I lean to at least 25 degrees LOP on the richest cylinder (last to peak). So I may have it set anywhere from 25-70 degrees LOP depending on the day. You do feel the power come back if you take it further LOP than necessary. But, I always lean using the EFIS as an initial starting point, because then I don't have to worry so much about what density altitude and conditions I'm in. I do try to avoid EGT's that stretch too far above 1400, so if that means leaning to 40 or 60 LOP on a particular day, I usually do, and typically I end up with maybe one or two that are pretty close to 1400. Considering that I don't run LOP under about 7,000', my fuel flows are almost always 10gph or less....maybe 10.5 max, but I don't see that often. Usually 10.1 down into the 7's, depending on altitude. Common would be 8.5-10gph, as I don't get up in that 14,000-15,000' range too often. At altitudes running 10gph or so, I may commonly see 160-165kts TAS. If I'm leaner than normal, or higher, I can get down even to 155kts TAS or anywhere in that 154-165kt range. It's always an easy 3gph or more less than if I were running ROP, and generally costs me somewhere around 8 kts. The range stretches incredibly though, and I flight plan 160, and use the added range I get with LOP to give me fuel margins on my planned stops. It's really not hard to have 4.5-5 hr legs running LOP, or even more. But, you have to remember you're going to need higher flows once you start down out of altitude. The temps are nice and cool on the CHT's all the time running LOP. I would just lean to a fuel flow, and once I'm set up, I do actually use fuel flow to manage temps, but I'm hesitant to JUST use fuel flow because there are just too many variables that affect it. I figure with today's power in the EFIS's, I should use them. The Chelton's have a great leaning tool built into the engine page. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying Bob and Karen Brown wrote: > > How many degrees lean of peak do you normally run at in typical cruise > settings? An example of fuel flow would be helpful. On my 7 for instance, I > typically lean to a fuel flow (say 7.5 gph) at a given cruise power setting > and density altitude, knowing that particular fuel flow will put me 40 or 50 > degrees LOP. It's a quicker setup than trying to lean to a specific LOP > number. I was just wondering how many degrees LOP you end up at. It's cool > that your temps (and by inference, your fuel flows) are balanced at those > LOP settings. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 5:56 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming > > > Hundreds of hours running LOP on my Bendix system and all is well. > There are some things you can do to better balance your injectors, > and some places will work with you on it. Bart at Aerosport > has always had an open offer with me to swap injectors to balance > the fuel flows as best I can. He balanced them originally. > They have worked so good I haven't yet taken the time to see > how much more perfect I can get them. It runs really well > LOP. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > > > Dave Leikam wrote: >> I am close to ordering my engine. I originally wanted a BPE engine. In >> order to save $$ I am now leaning toward a stock XIO-540 and Hartzell >> prop combo from Van's. I am looking for opinions on this decision >> regarding engine reliability, LOP operation with Bendix injection >> system, smoothness and overall performance compared to the BPE or other >> engine shop engine. I will probably install an ElectroAir ignition with >> one mag. Thanks in advance for the input. >> >> Dave Leikam >> RV-10 #40496 >> N89DA (Reserved) >> Muskego, WI >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:42 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming Sure, it's an automatic, but here you go, I'll remove it. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying Robin Marks wrote: > > Tim, > Below is the content that is ideal for the Archives (maybe with > an updated Subject that contains LOP). Maybe consider removing the Do > Nxt Arckive? > > Robin > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:59 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming > > > I try to get the power set to 65% or less, then I lean to at least > 25 degrees LOP on the richest cylinder (last to peak). So I may > have it set anywhere from 25-70 degrees LOP depending on the day. > You do feel the power come back if you take it further LOP than > necessary. But, I always lean using the EFIS as an initial starting > point, because then I don't have to worry so much about what > density altitude and conditions I'm in. I do try to avoid EGT's > that stretch too far above 1400, so if that means leaning to > 40 or 60 LOP on a particular day, I usually do, and typically > I end up with maybe one or two that are pretty close to 1400. > Considering that I don't run LOP under about 7,000', my fuel > flows are almost always 10gph or less....maybe 10.5 max, but > I don't see that often. Usually 10.1 down into the 7's, depending > on altitude. Common would be 8.5-10gph, as I don't get up in that > 14,000-15,000' range too often. At altitudes running 10gph > or so, I may commonly see 160-165kts TAS. If I'm leaner than > normal, or higher, I can get down even to 155kts TAS or > anywhere in that 154-165kt range. It's always an easy 3gph or > more less than if I were running ROP, and generally costs me > somewhere around 8 kts. The range stretches incredibly though, > and I flight plan 160, and use the added range I get with LOP > to give me fuel margins on my planned stops. It's really not > hard to have 4.5-5 hr legs running LOP, or even more. But, > you have to remember you're going to need higher flows once > you start down out of altitude. The temps are nice and cool > on the CHT's all the time running LOP. I would just lean to > a fuel flow, and once I'm set up, I do actually use fuel flow > to manage temps, but I'm hesitant to JUST use fuel flow because > there are just too many variables that affect it. I figure > with today's power in the EFIS's, I should use them. The Chelton's > have a great leaning tool built into the engine page. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > > > Bob and Karen Brown wrote: > >> How many degrees lean of peak do you normally run at in typical cruise >> settings? An example of fuel flow would be helpful. On my 7 for > instance, I >> typically lean to a fuel flow (say 7.5 gph) at a given cruise power > setting >> and density altitude, knowing that particular fuel flow will put me 40 > or 50 >> degrees LOP. It's a quicker setup than trying to lean to a specific > LOP >> number. I was just wondering how many degrees LOP you end up at. > It's cool >> that your temps (and by inference, your fuel flows) are balanced at > those >> LOP settings. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson >> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 5:56 PM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stock Lycoming >> >> >> Hundreds of hours running LOP on my Bendix system and all is well. >> There are some things you can do to better balance your injectors, >> and some places will work with you on it. Bart at Aerosport >> has always had an open offer with me to swap injectors to balance >> the fuel flows as best I can. He balanced them originally. >> They have worked so good I haven't yet taken the time to see >> how much more perfect I can get them. It runs really well >> LOP. >> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying >> >> >> Dave Leikam wrote: >>> I am close to ordering my engine. I originally wanted a BPE engine. > In >>> order to save $$ I am now leaning toward a stock XIO-540 and Hartzell > >>> prop combo from Van's. I am looking for opinions on this decision >>> regarding engine reliability, LOP operation with Bendix injection >>> system, smoothness and overall performance compared to the BPE or > other >>> engine shop engine. I will probably install an ElectroAir ignition > with >>> one mag. Thanks in advance for the input. >>> >>> Dave Leikam >>> RV-10 #40496 >>> N89DA (Reserved) >>> Muskego, WI >>> >> ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:09 AM PST US From: Danny Riggs Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: SilPruf window removal Is this stuff paintable? Dan > Subject: RV10-List: Re: SilPruf window removal > From: lenard@rapiddecision.com > Date: Mon=2C 16 Feb 2009 10:15:41 -0800 > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > > > I just bought some on Amazon.com. > > Lenny > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230536#230536 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people=2C information=2C and fun that are part of your life. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:38 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: VA-186 Oil cooler box From: "AirMike" Alex DeDominicis' enhanced oil cooler mates exactly as the Vans same screws, etc -------- OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09 Q/B Kit - wiring and FWF Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230563#230563 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:09 PM PST US From: Perry Casson Subject: RV10-List: NACA vent part # Hi RV-10ers, Could someone please post the part number for -10=92s RH NACA vent. I=92ve got the aluminum eyeball vents and not sure if I over tightened the screws, the extra weight of the Aluminum eyeballs, Canadian cold or what but the face of my cheap plastic NACA vent flange broke off in flight making for a nasty breeze. Sorry to be a bother but I=92m 1500 miles from my manual and would like to get the part on its way. Sure hope I can separate the flange from the rest of the vent and just re-glue in that =BD of the part and not mess with the outside finish by replacing the whole vent. Thanks, Perry Casson C-FMHP 100 hours. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:49 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Drilling Mid and tailcone Longerons From: "Y-it" Hello all, I've got my tailcone temporarily attached to the fuse (awesome to see it come together), the mid fuse longerons do not have the bolt holes in the aft marked for match drilling to the tailcone longeron. I'm guessing since this was a QB kit thats the reason I don't have the template to actually make the longerons. I've combed through the plans and I can't find any reference for bolt spacing. Any help in this area would be helpful, of course Vans is closed today ;( Thank! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230580#230580 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:08 PM PST US From: "John Dunne" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Gasket between airbox and fuel injection system Hi Michael, There's no gasket between mine. I don't think you'd want bits of any gasket or sealant breaking off and entering here. John 40315 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Wellenzohn Sent: Saturday, 14 February 2009 8:53 AM Subject: RV10-List: Gasket between airbox and fuel injection system I didn't find anywhere a remark that a gasket is required between the airbox and the fuel injection system. is that correct? See attached picture. Kind regards Michael -------- RV-10 builder (engine, prop, finishing) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230163#230163 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0231_741.jpg ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:37 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: NACA vent part # Perry, Here is a link to the Van's web store: http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1234830631-328-402&browse=heatvent&product=ventilation-components That should get you to the vent parts. You can buy just pieces of it if you want. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Perry Casson wrote: > Hi RV-10ers, > > > > Could someone please post the part number for -10s RH NACA vent. Ive > got the aluminum eyeball vents and not sure if I over tightened the > screws, the extra weight of the Aluminum eyeballs, Canadian cold or what > but the face of my cheap plastic NACA vent flange broke off in flight > making for a nasty breeze. Sorry to be a bother but Im 1500 miles from > my manual and would like to get the part on its way. Sure hope I can > separate the flange from the rest of the vent and just re-glue in that > of the part and not mess with the outside finish by replacing the whole > vent. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Perry Casson > > C-FMHP 100 hours. > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:07 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Drilling Mid and tailcone Longerons From: "egohr1" 4 bolts 3/4" on center start 3/8 from the end to the center of the first hole -------- eric gohr EGOHR86@alumni.carnegiemellon.edu Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230589#230589 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:17 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: NACA vent part # From: "Lenny Iszak" If you need one right now i could overnight mine to you in the morning. I get half price fedex rates... Let me know. Lenny Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230599#230599 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:42 PM PST US From: "Dave Saylor" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: SilPruf window removal The instructions say no. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:57 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: SilPruf window removal Is this stuff paintable? Dan > Subject: RV10-List: Re: SilPruf window removal > From: lenard@rapiddecision.com > Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:15:41 -0800 > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > > > I just bought some on Amazon.com. > > Lenny > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230536#230536 > >== > > > _____ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. See Now ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:05 PM PST US From: Michael Kraus Subject: Re: RV10-List: Drilling Mid and tailcone Longerons Plans page 32-3 Sent from my iPhone On Feb 16, 2009, at 6:48 PM, "Y-it" wrote: > > Hello all, > I've got my tailcone temporarily attached to the fuse (awesome to > see it come together), the mid fuse longerons do not have the bolt > holes in the aft marked for match drilling to the tailcone > longeron. I'm guessing since this was a QB kit thats the reason I > don't have the template to actually make the longerons. I've combed > through the plans and I can't find any reference for bolt spacing. > Any help in this area would be helpful, of course Vans is closed > today ;( > Thank! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230580#230580 > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:27 PM PST US From: Perry Casson Subject: RV10-List: RE: NACA vent part # Thanks for the link Tim, glad to see then sell them un-bonded, now as long as I can get the one in the plane to come apart without damage to the outer piece my worries are over. And Lenny thanks very much for the kind offer to lend a part, I've got it all duct taped up and flyable I can wait for the Vans order to arrive. Perry >If you need one right now i could overnight mine to you in the morning. I get half >price fedex rates... Let me know. > >Lenny ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:01 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: SilPruf window removal From: "Lenny Iszak" Dan, Here's the Amazon link for Silpruf: http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1234844526/ref=sr_nr_seeall_2?ie=UTF8&rs=&keywords=silpruf&rh=i:aps,k:silpruf,i:tools or you can get it here http://www.dkhardware.com/product-3620-scs2003-black-ge-silpruf-silicone-sealant.html for a couple dollars cheaper. I just trust Amazon a little more... Lenny Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230611#230611 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:50 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Drilling Mid and tailcone Longerons From: "Y-it" n223rv(at)wolflakeairport wrote: > Plans page 32-3 > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 16, 2009, at 6:48 PM, "Y-it" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello all, > > I've got my tailcone temporarily attached to the fuse (awesome to > > see it come together), the mid fuse longerons do not have the bolt > > holes in the aft marked for match drilling to the tailcone > > longeron. I'm guessing since this was a QB kit thats the reason I > > don't have the template to actually make the longerons. I've combed > > through the plans and I can't find any reference for bolt spacing. > > Any help in this area would be helpful, of course Vans is closed > > today ;( > > Thank! > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 30580#230580 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Page 32-3 on my plans don't show any detail for measurements, and I don't seem to have the template for the longerons. I got called in for baby duty anyhow, so It didn't turn out to be a big letdown in the end! (Well from a plane building standpoint I guess it did) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230616#230616 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.