Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:56 AM - Re: Re: How many push pull contol cables (cabin heat type) (Jesse Saint)
2. 09:38 AM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Eric Ekberg)
3. 11:15 AM - Re: Composite Class for RV-10s May 9-10 2009 (johngoodman)
4. 12:45 PM - Re: Composite Class for RV-10s May 9-10 2009 (orchidman)
5. 01:09 PM - Re: Weld-on 10 void (Ron B.)
6. 01:21 PM - Re: Started (Tim Olson)
7. 01:23 PM - Re: Re: Weld-on 10 void (Tim Olson)
8. 01:41 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Tim Olson)
9. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: How many push pull contol cables (cabin heat type) (Patrick Pulis)
10. 01:46 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Tim Olson)
11. 02:12 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (David McNeill)
12. 02:40 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (John Gonzalez)
13. 02:55 PM - Re: Re: Composite Class for RV-10s May 9-10 2009 (Dave Saylor)
14. 04:05 PM - Re: Weld-on 10 void (Ron B.)
15. 04:35 PM - Re: Started (Kelly McMullen)
16. 05:25 PM - Re: Started (John Cumins)
17. 05:29 PM - Re: Started (John Cumins)
18. 06:33 PM - Re: Started (Kelly McMullen)
19. 07:02 PM - Fuel Injector Flow Matching (dmaib@mac.com)
20. 07:07 PM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (Kelly McMullen)
21. 07:17 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Don McDonald)
22. 07:22 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (doctornigel)
23. 07:27 PM - Longtime Lurker (doctornigel)
24. 07:44 PM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (linn)
25. 07:46 PM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (Rene)
26. 07:48 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (David McNeill)
27. 08:04 PM - Re: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Tim Olson)
28. 08:11 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (ricksked@embarqmail.com)
29. 08:16 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Nate Lewis)
30. 08:18 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Kelly McMullen)
31. 08:33 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Tim Olson)
32. 08:33 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Tim Olson)
33. 08:36 PM - Re: Longtime Lurker (Tim Olson)
34. 08:37 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (David McNeill)
35. 08:42 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Tim Olson)
36. 08:46 PM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (Tim Olson)
37. 08:46 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (David McNeill)
38. 08:54 PM - Wing Rib OOPS (Bill and Tami Britton)
39. 09:10 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (David McNeill)
40. 09:52 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (ricksked@embarqmail.com)
41. 10:09 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Don McDonald)
42. 10:18 PM - Re: Wing Rib OOPS (Tim Olson)
43. 10:36 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Tim Olson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: How many push pull contol cables (cabin heat type) |
That oil cooler gives probably about 15-20 degrees cooler oil compared
to the standard Van's cooler. I would consider that a must have if
you are in a hot environment. If you are between heat and cold, then
you might want to go with the valve so you can let your oil warm up
when it's cold. It works really well. When open, it doesn't look
like it will restrict airflow much at all, but closing it will let
your oil warm up when it's cold. For those who don't put in the carb
heat/alternate air door, you can use the cable that comes with the FWF
kit to work this valve.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Feb 18, 2009, at 12:03 AM, Rene wrote:
> Got the oil cooler here
>
> http://www.aviationtechproducts.com/html/engine__parts.html
>
> $427
>
> I have not flown with it yet, so I don=92t know if it will help my oil
> heat problem. In the summer I have to restrict climbs due to oil
> heat=85=85we will see this year.
>
> Not wanting the oil to be to cold, I put in this air controller,
> also have not flown with it in order to check the effectiveness=85.
>
> http://www.nonstopaviation.com/rv10-controller-cooler-p-14566.html
>
> Rene'
> 801-721-6080
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a student pilot
with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull); only
requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a -10 would be
any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a different company.
Eric
do not archive
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com> wrote:
>
> Tim,
> I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8
> pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to fly so I
> purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We went
> through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he
> trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing them
> off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were extremely
> comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their
> certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and
> associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have been
> really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase. I
> believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose
> too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions excluded).
> While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi
> person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your own
> plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or training
> in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership costs
> of a trainer.
>
> Robin
> STILL in paint
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
>
>
> Recently my wife has been interested in learning to fly.
> She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
> but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
> She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she
> wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
>
> So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of things
> like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
> Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in
> case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
> Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
> so that she can be listed.
>
> See the bottom of the email for final comments, but...
>
> What I found was:
>
> "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model pilot"
>
> Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be listed
> on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
>
> ----
>
> "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total hours,
> he would need 5 hours of dual."
>
> So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add my
> dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
> total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
> 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
>
> ----
>
> And regarding my wife:
> "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
> unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
> is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
> minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
> PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
> Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
>
> "I could try another company with her having 100 total
> hours but the premium will come in higher then your
> current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
>
> -----
>
> So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
> RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
> rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
> insurance out there for someone with less hours,
> but I've basically come to the conclusion that
> there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
> to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
> 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> to use for instruction....who wants to actually
> get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
> pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
> you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
> years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
> help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
> pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
> a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
> a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
> topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
> at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
> dialog open.
>
>
> Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR job to FLY SAFE
> and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
> "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10 community,
> but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
> builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
> cause claims, or especially death, in our model
> of aircraft.
>
> --
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Composite Class for RV-10s May 9-10 2009 |
I took this course a little over a year ago. It was the best thing I've ever done
(except for marrying my lovely wife of 40 years - in case she reads this).
I would highly recommend it. In fact, if I lived closer I'd go again.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit started.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230862#230862
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Composite Class for RV-10s May 9-10 2009 |
I was in the same class as John and agree, it is worth every penny. I am finishing
up my windows right now and I am sure it has saved me weeks of work and no
telling how much re-do that I didn't have to re-do because I did right the first
time. I cut, and trimmed to fit my top in one day. Do it wrong and you
may get to buy another one.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Engine, Fiberglass - SB
(N2GB registered)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230878#230878
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Weld-on 10 void |
Decided to fill the void with epoxy. I used a syringe and filled the void with
no problem. One of those things that shouldn't hurt and only takes a few minutes.
Ron
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230882#230882
Message 6
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John, are you 40864 or 40865? You show both in your email.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Cumins wrote:
> Sean
>
>
>
> Welcome to the RV-10 world. I am serial number 40865 June 2008 and am
> just about to start the riveting of the Horz stab. I have enjoyed every
> hour and the friendship that comes with building the rv-10. Also I would
> recommend that you find an EAA chapter near you to join there great
> people doing what we all love.
>
>
>
> Congrats and dont worry about mistakes we all make them. 1 word of the
> wise is when you do your inventory make sure to organize everything
> well. It will prevent you from reordering parts you can not find, then
> when they show up you find the lost ones. Dont ask me how I know that
> routine but I have a set of spare Hors rear spar center hinge brackets
> if any one needs a set.
>
>
>
> Enjoy, I truly am.
>
>
>
> 40864 Priming Horv stab parts.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> John G. Cumins
>
> President
>
>
>
> JC'S Interactive Systems
>
> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
>
> Fairfield Ca 94533
>
> 707-425-7100
>
> 707-425-7576 Fax
>
>
>
> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Seano
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:30 PM
> *To:* rv10 list
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Started
>
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>
>
> My name is Sean Strasburg and I just started my RV-10. I wanted to
> introduce myself and make sure I am doing this right. I received my
> empennage on the 3rd and now I am getting ready to rivet the VS. I have
> already learned a lot from reading this matronics list. Also, I wanted
> to thank Scott Schmidt for helping me with the stupid questions starting
> my kit and getting me a ride in his wonderful RV-10.
>
> Serial 40936
>
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Weld-on 10 void |
I think you did good Ron. Nice to do the gap fill and just
make it feel better to yourself if for nothing else.
Welcome to the list. Glad to have you.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Ron B. wrote:
>
> Decided to fill the void with epoxy. I used a syringe and filled the
> void with no problem. One of those things that shouldn't hurt and
> only takes a few minutes. Ron
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Eric,
I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably
easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP
is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I just
had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds
like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK
at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that
they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane
for training. And, they found one company that would cover a
100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000
additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).
I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this
in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going
to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.
That's probably the biggest killer.
I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and
then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause
that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least
100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.
You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
at least had a couple hundred hours of time.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Eric Ekberg wrote:
> I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a student
> pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull);
> only requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a -10
> would be any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a
> different company.
>
> Eric
> do not archive
>
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com
> <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
>
> <robin1@mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
>
> Tim,
> I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8
> pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to fly so I
> purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We went
> through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he
> trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing them
> off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were extremely
> comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their
> certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and
> associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have been
> really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase. I
> believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose
> too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions excluded).
> While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi
> person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your own
> plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or training
> in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership costs
> of a trainer.
>
> Robin
> STILL in paint
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
>
> <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
>
> Recently my wife has been interested in learning to fly.
> She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
> but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
> She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she
> wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
>
> So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of things
> like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
> Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in
> case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
> Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
> so that she can be listed.
>
> See the bottom of the email for final comments, but...
>
> What I found was:
>
> "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model pilot"
>
> Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be listed
> on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
>
> ----
>
> "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total hours,
> he would need 5 hours of dual."
>
> So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add my
> dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
> total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
> 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
>
> ----
>
> And regarding my wife:
> "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
> unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
> is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
> minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
> PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
> Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
>
> "I could try another company with her having 100 total
> hours but the premium will come in higher then your
> current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
>
> -----
>
> So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
> RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
> rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
> insurance out there for someone with less hours,
> but I've basically come to the conclusion that
> there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
> to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
> 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> to use for instruction....who wants to actually
> get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
> pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
> you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
> years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
> help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
> pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
> a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
> a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
> topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
> at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
> dialog open.
>
>
> Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR job to FLY SAFE
> and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
> "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10 community,
> but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
> builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
> cause claims, or especially death, in our model
> of aircraft.
>
> --
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: How many push pull contol cables (cabin heat type) |
Many thanks Jesse.=0A=0ARegards=0A=0APat=0ASouth Oz=0A=0ADo Not Archive=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Jesse Saint <jesse@sai
ntaviation.com>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, 19 February
, 2009 12:25:01 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Re: How many push pull contol
cables (cabin heat type)=0A=0AThat oil cooler gives probably about 15-20 de
grees cooler oil compared to the standard Van's cooler. =C2-I would consi
der that a must have if you are in a hot environment. =C2-If you are betw
een heat and cold, then you might want to go with the valve so you can let
your oil warm up when it's cold. =C2-It works really well. =C2-When ope
n, it doesn't look like it will restrict airflow much at all, but closing i
t will let your oil warm up when it's cold. =C2-For those who don't put i
n the carb heat/alternate air door, you can use the cable that comes with t
he FWF kit to work this valve. =0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0AJesse Saint=0AS
aint Aviation, Inc.=0Ajesse@saintaviation.com=0ACell: 352-427-0285=0AFax: 8
15-377-3694=0A=0AOn Feb 18, 2009, at 12:03 AM, Rene wrote:=0A=0AGot the oil
cooler here=0A=C2-=0Ahttp://www.aviationtechproducts.com/html/engine__pa
rts.html=0A=C2-=0A$427=0A=C2-=0AI have not flown with it yet, so I don
=99t know if it will help my oil heat problem.=C2- In the summer I
have to restrict climbs due to oil heatwe will see this y
ear.=0A=C2-=0ANot wanting the oil to be to cold, I put in this air contro
ller, also have not flown with it in order to check the effectiveness
.=0A=C2-=0Ahttp://www.nonstopaviation.com/rv10-controller-cooler-p-145
======0A=0A=0A Make Yahoo!7 your homepage and win a trip to
the Quiksilver Pro. Find out more
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Robin,
I think that's probably one of the best ways to go about it
if someone has the means. I could buy one but right now
I'd have to foot the entire bill for just my wife to use it.
There are a couple people from work who plan to start lessons
in the next few months, but they wouldn't be able to participate
in a plane purchase, so it's not worth extending myself
that far. But I think the idea is perfect.
My previous thought was to build a Sonex or something,
because then I'd at least have a little aerobatic
capable plane to fly on the cheap if I wanted. Too bad
I'd much rather have an RV-7 though, and then the
insurance and building costs really start to bite.
Now, if you need a place to store that 150 for
a while, just let me know. I could easily get
a hangar and store it for you for no charge...other
than borrowing the plane. ;)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Robin Marks wrote:
>
> Tim,
> I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8
> pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to fly so I
> purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We went
> through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he
> trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing them
> off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were extremely
> comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their
> certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and
> associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have been
> really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase. I
> believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose
> too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions excluded).
> While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi
> person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your own
> plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or training
> in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership costs
> of a trainer.
>
> Robin
> STILL in paint
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
>
>
> Recently my wife has been interested in learning to fly.
> She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
> but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
> She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she
> wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
>
> So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of things
> like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
> Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in
> case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
> Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
> so that she can be listed.
>
> See the bottom of the email for final comments, but...
>
> What I found was:
>
> "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model pilot"
>
> Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be listed
> on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
>
> ----
>
> "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total hours,
> he would need 5 hours of dual."
>
> So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add my
> dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
> total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
> 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
>
> ----
>
> And regarding my wife:
> "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
> unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
> is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
> minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
> PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
> Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
>
> "I could try another company with her having 100 total
> hours but the premium will come in higher then your
> current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
>
> -----
>
> So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
> RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
> rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
> insurance out there for someone with less hours,
> but I've basically come to the conclusion that
> there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
> to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
> 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> to use for instruction....who wants to actually
> get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
> pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
> you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
> years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
> help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
> pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
> a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
> a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
> topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
> at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
> dialog open.
>
>
> Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR job to FLY SAFE
> and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
> "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10 community,
> but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
> builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
> cause claims, or especially death, in our model
> of aircraft.
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
I got a similar quote; my Global quote was $2700-3050 (4000TT+, CFII, A&P,
100 in type) depending on hull (150 or 175); adding my 250tt VFR buddy was
$900-1000 extra.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
Eric,
I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably easier. But
I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP is what just kills the
RV-10 in the insurance market. I just had another couple emails with the
insurance agent, and it sounds like there may just be one company that would
at least LOOK at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee
that
they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane for training. And,
they found one company that would cover a 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium
that may be maybe $1200-2000 additional cost from what my insurance is right
now ($2700-2850).
I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this in my
RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going to be any direct
comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.
That's probably the biggest killer.
I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and then see if
they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause that in order to be covered
for XXX hours (figure at least 100 hours), she would be required to have me
as a co-pilot.
You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots start shopping
for insurance. So far most people have at least had a couple hundred hours
of time.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Eric Ekberg wrote:
> I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a student
> pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k
> hull); only requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't
> think a -10 would be any more difficult (but what do I know?). I
> would try a different company.
>
> Eric
> do not archive
>
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com
> <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
>
> <robin1@mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
>
> Tim,
> I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8
> pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to fly so I
> purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We
went
> through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he
> trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing them
> off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were extremely
> comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their
> certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and
> associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have
been
> really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase. I
> believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose
> too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions excluded).
> While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi
> person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your
own
> plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or
training
> in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership
costs
> of a trainer.
>
> Robin
> STILL in paint
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
> policy
>
> <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
>
> Recently my wife has been interested in learning to fly.
> She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
> but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
> She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she
> wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
>
> So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of things
> like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
> Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in
> case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
> Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
> so that she can be listed.
>
> See the bottom of the email for final comments, but...
>
> What I found was:
>
> "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model pilot"
>
> Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be listed
> on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
>
> ----
>
> "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total hours,
> he would need 5 hours of dual."
>
> So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add my
> dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
> total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
> 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
>
> ----
>
> And regarding my wife:
> "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
> unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
> is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
> minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
> PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
> Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
>
> "I could try another company with her having 100 total
> hours but the premium will come in higher then your
> current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
>
> -----
>
> So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
> RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
> rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
> insurance out there for someone with less hours,
> but I've basically come to the conclusion that
> there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
> to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
> 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> to use for instruction....who wants to actually
> get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
> pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
> you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
> years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
> help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
> pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
> a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
> a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
> topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
> at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
> dialog open.
>
>
> Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR job to FLY SAFE
> and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
> "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10 community,
> but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
> builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
> cause claims, or especially death, in our model
> of aircraft.
>
> --
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 12
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| Subject: | Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
It will be real interesting when I go to get my poke in the ass. Over seven
hundred hours in a high performance sailplane and probably less then 100 h
our in power.
Like I said=2C bend over for the tax man and then call in his friend Gieco.
Wonder what they would charge me if I flew it without an engine.
JOhn G.
One hurdle after another=2C when is the end of the race?
Sorry for the sarcasm
> Date: Wed=2C 18 Feb 2009 15:41:14 -0600
> From: Tim@MyRV10.com
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the pol
icy
>
>
> Eric=2C
>
> I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably
> easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP
> is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I just
> had another couple emails with the insurance agent=2C and it sounds
> like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK
> at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that
> they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
> real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane
> for training. And=2C they found one company that would cover a
> 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000
> additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).
>
> I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this
> in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going
> to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.
> That's probably the biggest killer.
>
> I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and
> then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause
> that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least
> 100 hours)=2C she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.
> You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
>
> It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
> start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> at least had a couple hundred hours of time.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Eric Ekberg wrote:
> > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a student
> > pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull)
=3B
> > only requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a -10
> > would be any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a
> > different company.
> >
> > Eric
> > do not archive
> >
> > On Tue=2C Feb 17=2C 2009 at 5:02 PM=2C Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.c
om
> > <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
> >
> > <robin1@mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
> >
> > Tim=2C
> > I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8
> > pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to fly so I
> > purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We went
> > through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he
> > trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing them
> > off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were extremely
> > comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their
> > certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and
> > associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have bee
n
> > really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase. I
> > believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose
> > too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions excluded).
> > While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi
> > person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your ow
n
> > plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or trainin
g
> > in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership costs
> > of a trainer.
> >
> > Robin
> > STILL in paint
> > Do Not Archive
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> > Sent: Tuesday=2C February 17=2C 2009 8:55 AM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the polic
y
> >
> > <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
> >
> > Recently my wife has been interested in learning to fly.
> > She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
> > but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
> > She would just love to do it=2C and be able to do it if she
> > wants to. It opens the doors=2C anyway.
> >
> > So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of things
> > like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
> > Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT=2C just in
> > case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
> > Adding my wife for either training=2C or just post-training=2C
> > so that she can be listed.
> >
> > See the bottom of the email for final comments=2C but...
> >
> > What I found was:
> >
> > "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model pilot"
> >
> > Therefore=2C if I called and said I wanted Scott to be listed
> > on my policy=2C probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
> >
> > ----
> >
> > "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total hours=2C
> > he would need 5 hours of dual."
> >
> > So that portion of the reply means=2C yeah=2C I can add my
> > dad to the policy=2C but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
> > total time=2C and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG=2C
> > 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
> >
> > ----
> >
> > And regarding my wife:
> > "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
> > unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
> > is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours=2C this is their
> > minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
> > PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
> > Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
> >
> > "I could try another company with her having 100 total
> > hours but the premium will come in higher then your
> > current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
> >
> > -----
> >
> > So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> > importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
> > RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
> > rating. Global wants 300. Yeah=2C you may find
> > insurance out there for someone with less hours=2C
> > but I've basically come to the conclusion that
> > there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
> > to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
> > 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> > to use for instruction....who wants to actually
> > get their pilot cert in it=2C or who JUST got their
> > pilot cert and now wants a plane=2C I really think
> > you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
> > years=2C and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
> > help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
> > pretty trimmed down RV-10=2C that doesn't cost
> > a fortune=2C and just don't insure the hull for
> > a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
> > topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
> > at least=2C so I figured it's good to keep the
> > dialog open.
> >
> >
> > Now=2C for those of us flying=2C it's OUR job to FLY SAFE
> > and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
> > "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10 community=2C
> > but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
> > builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
> > cause claims=2C or especially death=2C in our model
> > of aircraft.
> >
> > --
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==========
> > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> > ==========
> > MS -
> > k">http://forums.matronics.com
> > ==========
> > e -
> > -Matt Dralle=2C List Admin.
> > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ==========
> >
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: Composite Class for RV-10s May 9-10 2009 |
Flying your 10 will be even better, than the class, that is.
Thanks, John and George.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 11:12 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Composite Class for RV-10s May 9-10 2009
--> <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
I took this course a little over a year ago. It was the best thing I've ever
done (except for marrying my lovely wife of 40 years - in case she reads
this).
I would highly recommend it. In fact, if I lived closer I'd go again.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit started.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230862#230862
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: Weld-on 10 void |
Thanks Tim
Are you planning to go to Sun & Fun? We plan to make arrangements tomorrow (commercially)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230910#230910
Message 15
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|
He is 865, one ahead of me at 866.
On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> John, are you 40864 or 40865? You show both in your email.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> John Cumins wrote:
>
>> Sean
>>
>>
>> Welcome to the RV-10 world. I am serial number 40865 June 2008 and am
>> just about to start the riveting of the Horz stab. I have enjoyed every
>> hour and the friendship that comes with building the rv-10. Also I would
>> recommend that you find an EAA chapter near you to join there great people
>> doing what we all love.
>>
>>
>> Congrats and don't worry about mistakes we all make them. 1 word of the
>> wise is when you do your inventory make sure to organize everything well.
>> It will prevent you from reordering parts you can not find, then when they
>> show up you find the lost ones. Don't ask me how I know that routine but I
>> have a set of spare Hors rear spar center hinge brackets if any one needs a
>> set.
>>
>>
>> Enjoy, I truly am.
>>
>>
>> 40864 Priming Horv stab parts.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John G. Cumins
>>
>> President
>>
>>
>> JC'S Interactive Systems
>>
>> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
>>
>> Fairfield Ca 94533
>>
>> 707-425-7100
>>
>> 707-425-7576 Fax
>>
>>
>> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Seano
>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:30 PM
>> *To:* rv10 list
>> *Subject:* RV10-List: Started
>>
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>>
>> My name is Sean Strasburg and I just started my RV-10. I wanted to
>> introduce myself and make sure I am doing this right. I received my
>> empennage on the 3rd and now I am getting ready to rivet the VS. I have
>> already learned a lot from reading this matronics list. Also, I wanted to
>> thank Scott Schmidt for helping me with the stupid questions starting my kit
>> and getting me a ride in his wonderful RV-10.
>>
>> Serial 40936
>>
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
Message 16
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Tim
OOPS I am 40864 and Kelly is 40865.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Started
John, are you 40864 or 40865? You show both in your email.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Cumins wrote:
> Sean
>
>
>
> Welcome to the RV-10 world. I am serial number 40865 June 2008 and am
> just about to start the riveting of the Horz stab. I have enjoyed every
> hour and the friendship that comes with building the rv-10. Also I would
> recommend that you find an EAA chapter near you to join there great
> people doing what we all love.
>
>
>
> Congrats and don't worry about mistakes we all make them. 1 word of the
> wise is when you do your inventory make sure to organize everything
> well. It will prevent you from reordering parts you can not find, then
> when they show up you find the lost ones. Don't ask me how I know that
> routine but I have a set of spare Hors rear spar center hinge brackets
> if any one needs a set.
>
>
>
> Enjoy, I truly am.
>
>
>
> 40864 Priming Horv stab parts.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> John G. Cumins
>
> President
>
>
>
> JC'S Interactive Systems
>
> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
>
> Fairfield Ca 94533
>
> 707-425-7100
>
> 707-425-7576 Fax
>
>
>
> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Seano
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:30 PM
> *To:* rv10 list
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Started
>
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>
>
> My name is Sean Strasburg and I just started my RV-10. I wanted to
> introduce myself and make sure I am doing this right. I received my
> empennage on the 3rd and now I am getting ready to rivet the VS. I have
> already learned a lot from reading this matronics list. Also, I wanted
> to thank Scott Schmidt for helping me with the stupid questions starting
> my kit and getting me a ride in his wonderful RV-10.
>
> Serial 40936
>
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 17
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Ok now I am confused. Been a long week, will check my cert when I get home
tonight hehe.
To bad I can not blame the primer fumes but it has been raining for almost a
week so not priming here.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Started
He is 865, one ahead of me at 866.
On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
John, are you 40864 or 40865? You show both in your email.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Cumins wrote:
Sean
Welcome to the RV-10 world. I am serial number 40865 June 2008 and am just
about to start the riveting of the Horz stab. I have enjoyed every hour and
the friendship that comes with building the rv-10. Also I would recommend
that you find an EAA chapter near you to join there great people doing what
we all love.
Congrats and don't worry about mistakes we all make them. 1 word of the
wise is when you do your inventory make sure to organize everything well.
It will prevent you from reordering parts you can not find, then when they
show up you find the lost ones. Don't ask me how I know that routine but I
have a set of spare Hors rear spar center hinge brackets if any one needs a
set.
Enjoy, I truly am.
40864 Priming Horv stab parts.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Seano
*Sent:* Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:30 PM
*To:* rv10 list
*Subject:* RV10-List: Started
Hello everyone,
My name is Sean Strasburg and I just started my RV-10. I wanted to
introduce myself and make sure I am doing this right. I received my
empennage on the 3rd and now I am getting ready to rivet the VS. I have
already learned a lot from reading this matronics list. Also, I wanted to
thank Scott Schmidt for helping me with the stupid questions starting my kit
and getting me a ride in his wonderful RV-10.
Serial 40936
* *
* *
**
**
**
*http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
**
**
*http://forums.matronics.com*
**
**
*http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
* *
*
*
==========
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
==========
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
==========
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
Message 18
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Hmmm,
Well, I'm the mixed up one then.
I definitely am
40866
Don't know who is 865 then.
John Cumins wrote:
>
> Tim
>
> OOPS I am 40864 and Kelly is 40865.
>
>
> John G. Cumins
> President
>
> JC'S Interactive Systems
> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
> Fairfield Ca 94533
> 707-425-7100
> 707-425-7576 Fax
>
> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 1:21 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Started
>
>
> John, are you 40864 or 40865? You show both in your email.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> John Cumins wrote:
>
>> Sean
>>
>>
>>
>> Welcome to the RV-10 world. I am serial number 40865 June 2008 and am
>> just about to start the riveting of the Horz stab. I have enjoyed every
>> hour and the friendship that comes with building the rv-10. Also I would
>> recommend that you find an EAA chapter near you to join there great
>> people doing what we all love.
>>
>>
>>
>> Congrats and don't worry about mistakes we all make them. 1 word of the
>> wise is when you do your inventory make sure to organize everything
>> well. It will prevent you from reordering parts you can not find, then
>> when they show up you find the lost ones. Don't ask me how I know that
>> routine but I have a set of spare Hors rear spar center hinge brackets
>> if any one needs a set.
>>
>>
>>
>> Enjoy, I truly am.
>>
>>
>>
>> 40864 Priming Horv stab parts.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John G. Cumins
>>
>> President
>>
>>
>>
>> JC'S Interactive Systems
>>
>> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
>>
>> Fairfield Ca 94533
>>
>> 707-425-7100
>>
>> 707-425-7576 Fax
>>
>>
>>
>> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Seano
>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:30 PM
>> *To:* rv10 list
>> *Subject:* RV10-List: Started
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> My name is Sean Strasburg and I just started my RV-10. I wanted to
>> introduce myself and make sure I am doing this right. I received my
>> empennage on the 3rd and now I am getting ready to rivet the VS. I have
>> already learned a lot from reading this matronics list. Also, I wanted
>> to thank Scott Schmidt for helping me with the stupid questions starting
>> my kit and getting me a ride in his wonderful RV-10.
>>
>> Serial 40936
>>
>>
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
>
--
Message 19
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| Subject: | Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
Now that my engine is broken in and running well, I am starting to run LOP and
have one injector (#4) that is a bit rich compared to the other 5. It does not
peak until the other cylinders are 10 to 30 degrees LOP. My engine is a stock
IO-540 C4B5 that was overhauled locally in Minnesota. I am interested in finding
someone who will be willing to work with me to get the injectors matched closely.
I had GAMI injectors on my old Bonanza and they were great. But, I don't
want to spend the money for GAMI's on the Lycoming. This is standard Bendix
fuel injection system. Any thoughts or ideas will be appreciated.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230945#230945
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
You could try swapping the injector with whatever cylinder is first to peak.
dmaib@mac.com wrote:
>
> Now that my engine is broken in and running well, I am starting to run LOP and
have one injector (#4) that is a bit rich compared to the other 5. It does not
peak until the other cylinders are 10 to 30 degrees LOP. My engine is a stock
IO-540 C4B5 that was overhauled locally in Minnesota. I am interested in finding
someone who will be willing to work with me to get the injectors matched
closely. I had GAMI injectors on my old Bonanza and they were great. But, I don't
want to spend the money for GAMI's on the Lycoming. This is standard Bendix
fuel injection system. Any thoughts or ideas will be appreciated.
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230945#230945
>
>
>
--
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups and comments
.... that being said, if you look down at your last paragraph below, you wr
ote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots start shop
ping for insurance.- So far most people have
at least had a couple hundred hours of time".- My objection is you using
the word "interesting".- It's not at all interesting, it's a total pain i
n the ass.- These insurance companies have gone bonkers.- They wanted m
e to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific number of takeoffs and la
ndings.... that was fine, then, however, they wanted another 10 hours of du
al instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but the kicker was;- if
the 40 hours were not yet flown off the plane, I must hire a test pilot to
fly them off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me for the wonderful cost of
almost $6,000 per year.-- And this was the only company I found that wo
uld even provide a quote!!!!
Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no time.
Just kiddin' ya Tim.
Don McDonald
#40636
BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.
--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the polic
y
Eric,
I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably
easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP
is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I just
had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds
like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK
at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that
they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane
for training. And, they found one company that would cover a
100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000
additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).
I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this
in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going
to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.
That's probably the biggest killer.
I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and
then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause
that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least
100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.
You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
at least had a couple hundred hours of time.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Eric Ekberg wrote:
> I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a student
pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull); onl
y
requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a -10 would be
any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a different company.
>
> Eric
> do not archive
>
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com
<mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
>
> <robin1@mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
>
> Tim,
> I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8
> pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to fly so I
> purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We
went
> through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he
> trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing the
m
> off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were
extremely
> comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their
> certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and
> associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have
been
> really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase. I
> believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose
> too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions
excluded).
> While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi
> person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your
own
> plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or
training
> in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership
costs
> of a trainer.
>
> Robin
> STILL in paint
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Tim
Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
policy
>
> <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
>
> Recently my wife has been interested in learning to fly.
> She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
> but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
> She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she
> wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
>
> So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of things
> like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
> Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in
> case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
> Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
> so that she can be listed.
>
> See the bottom of the email for final comments, but...
>
> What I found was:
>
> "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model pilot"
>
> Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be listed
> on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
>
> ----
>
> "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total hours,
> he would need 5 hours of dual."
>
> So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add my
> dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
> total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
> 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
>
> ----
>
> And regarding my wife:
> "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
> unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
> is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
> minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
> PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
> Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
>
> "I could try another company with her having 100 total
> hours but the premium will come in higher then your
> current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
>
> -----
>
> So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
> RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
> rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
> insurance out there for someone with less hours,
> but I've basically come to the conclusion that
> there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
> to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
> 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> to use for instruction....who wants to actually
> get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
> pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
> you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
> years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
> help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
> pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
> a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
> a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
> topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
> at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
> dialog open.
>
>
> Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR job to FLY SAFE
> and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
> "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10 community,
> but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
> builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
> cause claims, or especially death, in our model
> of aircraft.
>
> --
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> "
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
=0A=0A=0A
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
One other option, get your CFI and have your wife log time with you while in your
RV-10. A cheap way to build total time to reduce insurance costs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230953#230953
Message 23
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|
Just wanted to finally say Hi to the RV-10 group. I'm number 40740, have been
building since July 2007. I'm finished with my emp and wings and am waiting for
my fuse which won't be here till April. I live near Melbourne, Florida. Love
the forum and I read most of the posts as they come into my email inbox, I've
learned alot and enjoy the building process, Hello all!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230955#230955
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
A few years back there was talk of an experimental version of fuel
injector that changed an insert in the injector rather than the whole
injector like Gami. I googled to try and find them, but came up empty.
You might switch the #$ injector with the one that peaks first to see if
it will help even things out.
Linn
dmaib@mac.com wrote:
>
> Now that my engine is broken in and running well, I am starting to run LOP and
have one injector (#4) that is a bit rich compared to the other 5. It does not
peak until the other cylinders are 10 to 30 degrees LOP. My engine is a stock
IO-540 C4B5 that was overhauled locally in Minnesota. I am interested in finding
someone who will be willing to work with me to get the injectors matched
closely. I had GAMI injectors on my old Bonanza and they were great. But, I don't
want to spend the money for GAMI's on the Lycoming. This is standard Bendix
fuel injection system. Any thoughts or ideas will be appreciated.
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230945#230945
>
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
You can try these guys. You can replace individual nozzles. I am in the
process of doing it this annual cycle......no results yet. I collected the
data, put it in excel and sent it to them and they provided me restrictor
recommendations.........
Let you know how it works.
http://www.airflowperformance.com/
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dmaib@mac.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:01 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Flow Matching
Now that my engine is broken in and running well, I am starting to run LOP
and have one injector (#4) that is a bit rich compared to the other 5. It
does not peak until the other cylinders are 10 to 30 degrees LOP. My engine
is a stock IO-540 C4B5 that was overhauled locally in Minnesota. I am
interested in finding someone who will be willing to work with me to get the
injectors matched closely. I had GAMI injectors on my old Bonanza and they
were great. But, I don't want to spend the money for GAMI's on the Lycoming.
This is standard Bendix fuel injection system. Any thoughts or ideas will be
appreciated.
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230945#230945
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
One other thing; be sure and get your high performance endorsement along the
way. I had planned to offer RV10 transition training in the Phoenix area but
after submitting the plan to the FSDO, the subject of the high performance
endorsement surfaced. I was told that I could not sign a HP endorsement as a
part of the transition because that could be accomplished in certified
aircraft (even though a person will not be considered proficient in an RV10
without the instruction for it.). Upon hearing that I decided that I don't
need to do this and canned the paperwork
COM CFII A&P.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don McDonald
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups and
comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last paragraph below,
you wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots start
shopping for insurance. So far most people have
at least had a couple hundred hours of time". My objection is you using the
word "interesting". It's not at all interesting, it's a total pain in the
ass. These insurance companies have gone bonkers. They wanted me to have
10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific number of takeoffs and landings....
that was fine, then, however, they wanted another 10 hours of dual
instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but the kicker was; if the 40
hours were not yet flown off the plane, I must hire a test pilot to fly them
off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me for the wonderful cost of almost
$6,000 per year. And this was the only company I found that would even
provide a quote!!!!
Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no time.
Just kiddin' ya Tim.
Don McDonald
#40636
BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.
--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
Eric,
I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably
easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP
is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I just
had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds
like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK
at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that
they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane
for training. And, they found one company that would cover a
100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000
additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).
I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this
in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going
to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.
That's probably the biggest killer.
I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and
then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause
that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least
100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.
You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
at least had a couple hundred hours of time.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Eric Ekberg wrote:
> I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a student
pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull); only
requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a -10 would be
any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a different company.
>
> Eric
> do not archive
>
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com
<mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
>
> <robin1@mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
>
> Tim,
> I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8
> pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to fly so I
> purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We
went
> through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he
> trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing them
> off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were
extremely
> comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their
> certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and
> associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have
been
> really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase. I
> believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose
> too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions
excluded).
> While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi
> person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your
own
> plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or
training
> in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership
costs
> of a trainer.
>
> Robin
> STILL in paint
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Tim
Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
policy
>
> <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
>
> Recently my wife has been interested in learning to fly.
> She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
> but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
> She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she
> wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
>
> So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of things
> like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
> Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in
> case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
> Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
> so that she can be listed.
>
> See the bottom of the email for final comments, but...
>
> What I found was:
>
> "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model pilot"
>
> Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be listed
> on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
>
> ----
>
> "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total hours,
> he would need 5 hours of dual."
>
> So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add my
> dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
> total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
> 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
>
> ----
>
> And regarding my wife:
> "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
> unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
> is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
> minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
> PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
> Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
>
> "I could try another company with her having 100 total
> hours but the premium will come in higher then your
> current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
>
> -----
>
> So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
> RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
> rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
> insurance out there for someone with less hours,
> but I've basically come to the conclusion that
> there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
> to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
> 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> to use for instruction....who wants to actually
> get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
> pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
> you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
> years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
> help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
> pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
> a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
> a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
> topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
> at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
> dialog open.
>
>
> Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR job to FLY SAFE
> and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
> "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10 community,
> but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
> builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
> cause claims, or especially death, in our model
> of aircraft.
>
> --
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> "
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Actually, that's one thing I'm working on. Just got all my
books for the commercial, and I think I'll for sure get my
commercial and then hopefully CFI. I figure that would be
nice anyway to just do BFR's for friends and things like that.
But it would also benefit just as you stated. However,
I will NOT be willing to force her to learn all the basics
from me....someone else should do that.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
doctornigel wrote:
>
>
> One other option, get your CFI and have your wife log time with you
> while in your RV-10. A cheap way to build total time to reduce
> insurance costs.
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
I didn't think the HP endorsement was applicable to experimentals..pardon my ignorance
if I'm off base on that..
Rick Sked
40185
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
whew - I'm glad I didn't see this thread a week ago, or I might have
chickened out. I just ordered our -10 empennage last friday (and thanks,
folks, for the advice!), and here I am with six hours in my logbook and my
wife hasn't started.
ah well - it's gotta be cheaper than building, month for month, right?
----- Original Message -----
From: David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 7:47 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
One other thing; be sure and get your high performance endorsement along the
way. I had planned to offer RV10 transition training in the Phoenix area but
after submitting the plan to the FSDO, the subject of the high performance
endorsement surfaced. I was told that I could not sign a HP endorsement as a
part of the transition because that could be accomplished in certified
aircraft (even though a person will not be considered proficient in an RV10
without the instruction for it.). Upon hearing that I decided that I don't
need to do this and canned the paperwork
COM CFII A&P.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don McDonald
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups and
comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last paragraph below,
you wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots start
shopping for insurance. So far most people have
at least had a couple hundred hours of time". My objection is you using the
word "interesting". It's not at all interesting, it's a total pain in the
ass. These insurance companies have gone bonkers. They wanted me to have
10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific number of takeoffs and landings....
that was fine, then, however, they wanted another 10 hours of dual
instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but the kicker was; if the 40
hours were not yet flown off the plane, I must hire a test pilot to fly them
off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me for the wonderful cost of almost
$6,000 per year. And this was the only company I found that would even
provide a quote!!!!
Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no time.
Just kiddin' ya Tim.
Don McDonald
#40636
BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.
--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
Eric,
I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably
easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP
is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I just
had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds
like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK
at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that
they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane
for training. And, they found one company that would cover a
100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000
additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).
I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this
in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going
to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.
That's probably the biggest killer.
I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and
then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause
that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least
100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.
You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
at least had a couple hundred hours of time.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Eric Ekberg wrote:
> I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a student
pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull); only
requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a -10 would be
any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a different company.
>
> Eric
> do not archive
>
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com
<mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
>
> <robin1@mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
>
> Tim,
> I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8
> pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to fly so I
> purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We
went
> through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he
> trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing them
> off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were
extremely
> comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their
> certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and
> associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have
been
> really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase. I
> believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose
> too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions
excluded).
> While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi
> person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your
own
> plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or
training
> in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership
costs
> of a trainer.
>
> Robin
> STILL in paint
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Tim
Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
policy
>
> <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
>
> Recently my wife has been interested in learning to fly.
> She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
> but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
> She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she
> wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
>
> So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of things
> like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
> Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in
> case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
> Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
> so that she can be listed.
>
> See the bottom of the email for final comments, but...
>
> What I found was:
>
> "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model pilot"
>
> Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be listed
> on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
>
> ----
>
> "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total hours,
> he would need 5 hours of dual."
>
> So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add my
> dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
> total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
> 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
>
> ----
>
> And regarding my wife:
> "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
> unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
> is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
> minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
> PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
> Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
>
> "I could try another company with her having 100 total
> hours but the premium will come in higher then your
> current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
>
> -----
>
> So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
> RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
> rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
> insurance out there for someone with less hours,
> but I've basically come to the conclusion that
> there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
> to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
> 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> to use for instruction....who wants to actually
> get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
> pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
> you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
> years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
> help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
> pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
> a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
> a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
> topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
> at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
> dialog open.
>
>
> Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR job to FLY SAFE
> and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
> "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10 community,
> but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
> builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
> cause claims, or especially death, in our model
> of aircraft.
>
> --
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
> ==========
> "
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
3D============================================
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"'>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
3D============================================
href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D============================================
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
What a crock, typical SDL FSDO! I have yet to figure out what the
"big" deal is about HP endorsement. I've flown both Aztec 250 and a
Mooney 231. Neither had the need for rudder nor acceleration that my
200 hp(+/- 5%) Mooney has, because of their greater weight. They
didn't land much different either. Based on prior flight in the Aztec
I'm grandfathered for HP anyway.
What the heck would you put in a syllabus to "train" someone for HP
endorsement that already has complex endorsement? Be aware of extra P
factor on takeoff and extra potential sink rate on approach?
On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 8:47 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
> One other thing; be sure and get your high performance endorsement along the
> way. I had planned to offer RV10 transition training in the Phoenix area but
> after submitting the plan to the FSDO, the subject of the high performance
> endorsement surfaced. I was told that I could not sign a HP endorsement as a
> part of the transition because that could be accomplished in certified
> aircraft (even though a person will not be considered proficient in an RV10
> without the instruction for it.). Upon hearing that I decided that I don't
> need to do this and canned the paperwork
>
> COM CFII A&P.
> ________________________________
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Don't worry, when you feel bad about OUR insurance, just go browse
the discussions about getting insurance for you Lancair kit.
It will make you feel MUCH better about whatever your situation
is when you build an RV-10. The comparison is astounding.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Nate Lewis wrote:
>
> whew - I'm glad I didn't see this thread a week ago, or I might have
> chickened out. I just ordered our -10 empennage last friday (and
> thanks, folks, for the advice!), and here I am with six hours in my
> logbook and my wife hasn't started.
>
> ah well - it's gotta be cheaper than building, month for month, right?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: David McNeill
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 7:47 PM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
> policy
>
>
> One other thing; be sure and get your high performance endorsement along
> the way. I had planned to offer RV10 transition training in the Phoenix
> area but after submitting the plan to the FSDO, the subject of the high
> performance endorsement surfaced. I was told that I could not sign a HP
> endorsement as a part of the transition because that could be
> accomplished in certified aircraft (even though a person will not be
> considered proficient in an RV10 without the instruction for it.). Upon
> hearing that I decided that I don't need to do this and canned the
> paperwork
>
> COM CFII A&P.
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don McDonald
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:14 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
> policy
>
>
> Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups and
> comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last paragraph
> below, you wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-time
> pilots start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> at least had a couple hundred hours of time". My objection is you using
> the word "interesting". It's not at all interesting, it's a total pain
> in the ass. These insurance companies have gone bonkers. They wanted
> me to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific number of takeoffs
> and landings.... that was fine, then, however, they wanted another 10
> hours of dual instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but the
> kicker was; if the 40 hours were not yet flown off the plane, I must
> hire a test pilot to fly them off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me
> for the wonderful cost of almost $6,000 per year. And this was the
> only company I found that would even provide a quote!!!!
> Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no time.
> Just kiddin' ya Tim.
> Don McDonald
> #40636
> BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.
>
>
> --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
> policy
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41 PM
>
>
>
> Eric,
>
> I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably
> easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP
> is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I just
> had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds
> like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK
> at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that
> they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
> real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane
> for training. And, they found one company that would cover a
> 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000
> additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).
>
> I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this
> in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going
> to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.
> That's probably the biggest killer.
>
> I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and
> then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause
> that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least
> 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.
> You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
>
> It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
> start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> at least had a couple hundred hours of time.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Eric Ekberg wrote:
>> I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a student
> pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull);
> only
> requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a -10 would be
> any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a different company.
>>
>> Eric
>> do not archive
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com
> <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
>>
>> <robin1@mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
>>
>> Tim,
>> I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8
>> pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to fly so I
>> purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We
> went
>> through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he
>> trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing
>> them
>> off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were
> extremely
>> comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their
>> certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and
>> associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have
> been
>> really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase. I
>> believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose
>> too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions
> excluded).
>> While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi
>> person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your
> own
>> plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or
> training
>> in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership
> costs
>> of a trainer.
>>
>> Robin
>> STILL in paint
>> Do Not Archive
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Tim
> Olson
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
> policy
>>
>> <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
>>
>> Recently my wife has been interested in learning to fly.
>> She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
>> but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
>> She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she
>> wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
>>
>> So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of things
>> like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
>> Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in
>> case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
>> Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
>> so that she can be listed.
>>
>> See the bottom of the email for final comments, but...
>>
>> What I found was:
>>
>> "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model pilot"
>>
>> Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be listed
>> on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
>>
>> ----
>>
>> "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total hours,
>> he would need 5 hours of dual."
>>
>> So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add my
>> dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
>> total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
>> 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
>>
>> ----
>>
>> And regarding my wife:
>> "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
>> unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
>> is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
>> minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
>> PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
>> Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
>>
>> "I could try another company with her having 100 total
>> hours but the premium will come in higher then your
>> current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
>>
>> -----
>>
>> So this is just put out there to illustrate the
>> importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
>> RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
>> rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
>> insurance out there for someone with less hours,
>> but I've basically come to the conclusion that
>> there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
>> to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
>> 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
>> to use for instruction....who wants to actually
>> get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
>> pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
>> you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
>> years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
>> help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
>> pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
>> a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
>> a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
>> topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
>> at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
>> dialog open.
>>
>>
>> Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR job to FLY SAFE
>> and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
>> "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10 community,
>> but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
>> builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
>> cause claims, or especially death, in our model
>> of aircraft.
>>
>> --
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> "
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========
>> MS -
>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> e -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 3D=============================================
>
> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"'>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> 3D=============================================
>
> href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
> 3D=============================================
>
> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> 3D=============================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
No, it DEFINITELY is. I went and did a couple hours in a
C182RG and got signed off on HP before I flew, just for the
same reasons David talked about. So if you're building
a -10, just take the time to go get your HP signoff
some time when you're doing some proficiency work. Like
if you need a BFR, schedule it in something that qualifies
as HP. That should get you ready and keep you current.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
ricksked@embarqmail.com wrote:
> I didn't think the HP endorsement was applicable to
> experimentals..pardon my ignorance if I'm off base on that..
>
> Rick Sked
> 40185
>
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From*: "David McNeill"
> *Date*: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 20:47:33 -0700
> *To*: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject*: RE: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
> policy
>
> One other thing; be sure and get your high = performance endorsement
> along the way. I had planned to offer RV10 transition = training in
> the Phoenix area but after submitting the plan to the FSDO, the subject
> = of the high performance endorsement surfaced. I was told that I
> could not sign = a HP endorsement as a part of the transition because
> that could be = accomplished in certified aircraft (even though a
> person will not be considered = proficient in an RV10 without the
> instruction for it.). Upon hearing that I decided = that I don't need
> to do this and canned the paperwork
>
> COM CFII A&P.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* = owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Don McDonald
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:14 = PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Insuring an = RV-10 with low-time pilots on
> the policy
>
> Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write = ups and
> comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last =
> paragraph below, you wrote "It's really going to be interesting as
> some = low-time pilots start shopping for insurance. So far most
> people = have
> at least had a couple hundred hours of time". My objection is = you
> using the word "interesting". It's not at all interesting, it's a =
> total pain in the ass. These insurance companies have gone =
> bonkers. They wanted me to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a
> specific = number of takeoffs and landings.... that was fine, then,
> however, they = wanted another 10 hours of dual instruments.... that
> wasn't toooo bad = either, but the kicker was; if the 40 hours were
> not yet flown off the = plane, I must hire a test pilot to fly them
> off...... THEN,,,, they would = insure me for the wonderful cost of
> almost $6,000 per year. And = this was the only company I found
> that would even provide a quote!!!!
> Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or = no time.
> Just kiddin' ya Tim.
> Don McDonald
> #40636
> BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on = Sat.
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: = Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
> the policy
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, = 1:41 PM
>
anning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot. You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies. It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots start shopping for insurance. So far most people have at least had a couple hundred hours of time. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Eric Ekberg wrote: > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a = student pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull); = only requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a -10 would = be any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a different = company. > > Eric > do not archive > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks = <robin1@mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote: > >
:Tim@myrv10.com>> > > Recently my wife has been interested in learning to
fly. > She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate > but
then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on. > She would just
love to do it, and be able to do it if she > wants to. It opens the doors,
anyway. > > So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of things >
like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's. > Adding my dad who
would have over 300 hours TT, just in > case some day I would consider letting
him fly it. > Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
> so that she can be listed. > > See the bottom of the email for
final comments, but... > > What I found was: > > "It should not cost
to add a 200 make and model pilot" > > Therefore, if I called and said
I wanted Scott to be listed > on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
> > ---- > > "Their m
in pilot requirement is PVT 300 total hours, > he would need 5 hours of dual."
> > So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add my > dad
to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours > total time, and needs
5 hours of dual. (or with AIG, > 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
> > ---- > > And regarding my wife: > "Your training plan for your
wife sounds good but > unfortunately Global would not add your wife until
she > is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their > minimum
pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is > PVT 250 Total with IFR and
must have dual with Mike > Seager or Alex DeDominicis." > > "I could
try another company with her having 100 total > hours but the premium will
come in higher then your > current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t)
:) > > ----- > > So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> importance of piloting time prior
to insuring your > RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument > rating.
Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find > insurance out there for someone
with less hours, > but I've basically come to the conclusion that >
there is no way that I can bother to add my wife > to the policy until she
has at least 100 if not > 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> to use for instruction....who wants to actually > get their pilot
cert in it, or who JUST got their > pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really
think > you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3 > years, and
flying 100 hrs per year first. It will > help your rates. Or at least
plan to build a > pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost > a fortune,
and just don't insure the hull for > a few years. Insurance is going
to be a tough > topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders >
at least, so I figured it's good to keep the >
dialog open. > > > Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR job to FLY SAFE > and not have any claims. Remember that we may be > "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10 community, > but we're certainly not being good to our fellow > builders if we do stupid and reckless things and > cause claims, or especially death, in our model > of aircraft. > > -- > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > > > > > > > > =========== > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > =========== > MS - > k">http://forums.matronics.com > =========== > e - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =========== > > > > * > > > *
>
>
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Longtime Lurker |
That's what I like about the forum too....the fact that it just
comes into your inbox. It makes it possible for you to ask a
question via email while you're building on a Sunday afternoon,
and then just go back to building, and every time you hear the
little "You've got mail" ding, you can see if you got the answer
yet. I know as I was building, there were many days that I had
my question answered and I could keep on happily building. It's
also nice if you have a smartphone.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
doctornigel wrote:
>
>
> Just wanted to finally say Hi to the RV-10 group. I'm number 40740,
> have been building since July 2007. I'm finished with my emp and
> wings and am waiting for my fuse which won't be here till April. I
> live near Melbourne, Florida. Love the forum and I read most of the
> posts as they come into my email inbox, I've learned alot and enjoy
> the building process, Hello all!
>
>
>
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
FAR 61.31 (f) . I don't believe that Part 61 makes a distinction if one
is
flying an experimental category airplane. At least the FSDO understood
it to
be required.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ricksked@embarqmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
policy
I didn't think the HP endorsement was applicable to
experimentals..pardon my
ignorance if I'm off base on that..
Rick Sked
40185
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
_____
From: "David McNeill"
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
policy
One other thing; be sure and get your high = performance
endorsement
along the way. I had planned to offer RV10 transition = training
in the
Phoenix area but after submitting the plan to the FSDO, the subject =
of
the high performance endorsement surfaced. I was told that I could
not
sign = a HP endorsement as a part of the transition because that
could be
= accomplished in certified aircraft (even though a person will
not be
considered = proficient in an RV10 without the instruction for
it.). Upon
hearing that I decided = that I don't need to do this and canned
the
paperwork
COM CFII A&P.
_____
From: = owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
McDonald
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:14 = PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an = RV-10 with low-time pilots
on the
policy
Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write = ups
and
comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last =
paragraph
below, you wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some =
low-time
pilots start shopping for insurance. So far most people = have
at least had a couple hundred hours of time". My objection is =
you
using the word "interesting". It's not at all interesting, it's a
total pain in the ass. These insurance companies have gone =
bonkers.
They wanted me to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific =
number
of takeoffs and landings.... that was fine, then, however, they
wanted another 10 hours of dual instruments.... that wasn't toooo
bad
either, but the kicker was; if the 40 hours were not yet flown off
the
plane, I must hire a test pilot to fly them off...... THEN,,,, they
would
= insure me for the wonderful cost of almost $6,000 per year.
And
this was the only company I found that would even provide a
quote!!!!
Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or = no
time.
Just kiddin' ya Tim.
Don McDonald
#40636
BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on = Sat.
--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: = Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots
on the
policy
I
wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably easier.
But I
think the higher hull value combined with 260HP is what just kills the
RV-10
in the insurance market. I just had another couple emails with the
insurance agent, and it sounds like there may just be one company that
would
at least LOOK at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee
that they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely real
high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane for training. And,
they
found one company that would cover a 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium
that
may be maybe $1200-2000 additional cost from what my insurance is right
now
($2700-2850). I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid
this
in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going to be any
direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2. That's probably the
biggest killer. I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot
certificate
and then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause that in
order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least 100 hours), she would
be
required to have me as a co-pilot. You'd think that might give the
company
some warm fuzzies. It's really going to be interesting as some low-time
pilots start shopping for insurance. So far most people have at least
had a
couple hundred hours of time. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not
archive Eric Ekberg wrote: > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's.
I
insured it as a = student pilot with no problems (except that my
premium was
$3k for $105k hull); = only requirement was 10 hours dual before solo.
I
wouldn't think a -10 would = be any more difficult (but what do I
know?). I
would try a different = company. > > Eric > do not archive >
> On Tue,
Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks = <robin1@mrmoisture.com
<mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote: > > --> RV10-List
message
posted by: "Robin Marks" > <robin1@mrmoisture.com
<mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> > > Tim, > I have a
business partner that came from a flying family = (8 > pilots) and
he
wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to = fly so I > purchased a
cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. = We went >
through
the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before = he >
trained
both his kids to the best of his ability prior to = handing them >
off
to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were extremely >
comfortable
with the principles of flight and the rest of their > certification
went
well. I then let a number of other friends = and > associated
train in
the plane. Insurance and flight operations = have been > really
cheap
and a lot of people have benefited from this = purchase. I >
believe I
bought the plane well and normally would not expect = to lose >
too much
when it's time to sell (current market conditions excluded). > While
this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a = multi >
person
partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in = your own >
plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or training
>
in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total = ownership
costs >
of a trainer. > > Robin > STILL in paint > Do Not
Archive
> > -----Original Message----- > From:
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >
<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com> >
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >
<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf = Of Tim
Olson >
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM > To:
rv10-list@matronics.com
<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com> > Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an
RV-10
with low-time pilots on = the policy > > --> RV10-List
message posted
by: Tim Olson = <Tim@myrv10.com > <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>> >
>
Recently my wife has been interested in learning to fly. > She would
probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate > but then may or
may
not ever fly alone from that point on. > She would just love to do
it,
and be able to do it if she > wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
> > So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of things >
like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's. > Adding my dad
who
would have over 300 hours TT, just in > case some day I would
consider
letting him fly it. > Adding my wife for either training, or just
post-training, > so that she can be listed. > > See the
bottom of
the email for final comments, but... > > What I found was:
> >
"It should not cost to add a 200 make and model pilot" > >
Therefore,
if I called and said I wanted Scott to be listed > on my policy,
probably wouldn't cost me a penny. > > ---- > > "Their
min
pilot requirement is PVT 300 total hours, > he would need 5 hours of
dual." > > So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add
my >
dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours > total
time,
and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG, > 250 but the dual from
Mike or
Alex). > > ---- > > And regarding my wife: > "Your
training plan for your wife sounds good but > unfortunately Global
would
not add your wife until she > is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours,
this
is their > minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is >
PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike > Seager or Alex
DeDominicis." > > "I could try another company with her having
100
total > hours but the premium will come in higher then your >
current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :) > > -----
> >
So this is just put out there to illustrate the > importance of
piloting
time prior to insuring your > RV-10. Notice that AIG wants
250+Instrument > rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find >
insurance out there for someone with less hours, > but I've
basically
come to the conclusion that > there is no way that I can bother to
add
my wife > to the policy until she has at least 100 if not > 300
hours. For someone who's building the RV-10 > to use for
instruction....who wants to actually > get their pilot cert in it,
or
who JUST got their > pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really
think >
you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3 > years, and flying
100
hrs per year first. It will > help your rates. Or at least plan to
build a > pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost > a
fortune,
and just don't insure the hull for > a few years. Insurance is
going to
be a tough > topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders >
at least, so I figured it's good to keep the > dialog open. >
> >
Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR job to FLY SAFE > and not have
any
claims. Remember that we may be > "nice guys" (or maybe not...:))
to
the RV-10 community, > but we're certainly not being good to our
fellow
> builders if we do stupid and reckless things and > cause
claims,
or especially death, in our model > of aircraft. > > -- >
Tim
Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > > > > > >
> >
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > "
target=3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > MS - >
k">http://forums.matronics.com >
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >
e - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >
t=3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >
> > * > > > *
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Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
I hear you Don, that's why I brought it up. It stinks to be
blind sided by such financial news. I know when I finished
my RV-10, I had maybe $1,000 to my name. I was actually
worried that I may not be able to earn fast enough to pay
for the fuel to fly it off in a reasonable amount of time.
Think about it, the flyoff alone will cost $1500-3000 in
fuel. And after not even thinking about it through the build,
you call your insurance guy up a month before you fly and
get a quote and find out that your insurance is going to
run you maybe a minimum of $2500 (roughly) or as much as
$6,000 (if you have low time), before you can even take off
for your first flight. Oh, and then you need that transition
training...save a $500-1000 or more for that, because you're
going to pay for a plane, an instructor, and the travel to
get you there if you need to fly with the common 2 Transition
trainers. It all adds up. That's why I figured I'd use my
wife's example as an illustration. It gives people a heads up
for what to plan for.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Don McDonald wrote:
> Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups and
> comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last paragraph
> below, you wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-time
> pilots start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> at least had a couple hundred hours of time". My objection is you using
> the word "interesting". It's not at all interesting, it's a total pain
> in the ass. These insurance companies have gone bonkers. They wanted
> me to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific number of takeoffs
> and landings.... that was fine, then, however, they wanted another 10
> hours of dual instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but the
> kicker was; if the 40 hours were not yet flown off the plane, I must
> hire a test pilot to fly them off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me
> for the wonderful cost of almost $6,000 per year. And this was the
> only company I found that would even provide a quote!!!!
> Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no time.
> Just kiddin' ya Tim.
> Don McDonald
> #40636
> BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
> the policy
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41 PM
>
>
> Eric,
>
> I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably
> easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP
> is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I just
> had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds
> like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK
> at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that
> they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
> real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane
> for training. And, they found one company that would cover a
> 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000
> additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).
>
> I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this
> in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going
> to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.
> That's probably the biggest killer.
>
> I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and
> then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause
> that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least
> 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.
> You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
>
> It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
> start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> at least had a couple hundred hours of time.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Eric Ekberg wrote:
> > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a student
> pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull); only
> requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a -10 would
be
> any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a different company.
> >
> > Eric
> > do not archive
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com
> <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
> >
> > <robin1@mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
> >
> > Tim,
> > I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8
> > pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to fly so I
> > purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We
> went
> > through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he
> > trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing them
> > off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were
> extremely
> > comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their
> > certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and
> > associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have
> been
> > really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase.
I
> > believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose
> > too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions
> excluded).
> > While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi
> > person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your
> own
> > plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or
> training
> > in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership
> costs
> > of a trainer.
> >
> > Robin
> > STILL in paint
> > Do Not Archive
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Tim
> Olson
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
> policy
> >
> > <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
> >
> > Recently my wife has been interested in learning to fly.
> > She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
> > but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
> > She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she
> > wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
> >
> > So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of things
> > like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
> > Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in
> > case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
> > Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
> > so that she can be listed.
> >
> > See the bottom of the email for final comments, but...
> >
> > What I found was:
> >
> > "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model pilot"
> >
> > Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be listed
> > on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
> >
> > ----
> >
> > "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total hours,
> > he would need 5 hours of dual."
> >
> > So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add my
> > dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
> > total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
> > 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
> >
> > ----
> >
> > And regarding my wife:
> > "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
> > unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
> > is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
> > minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
> > PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
> > Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
> >
> > "I could try another company with her having 100 total
> > hours but the premium will come in higher then your
> > current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
> >
> > -----
> >
> > So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> > importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
> > RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
> > rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
> > insurance out there for someone with less hours,
> > but I've basically come to the conclusion that
> > there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
> > to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
> > 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> > to use for instruction....who wants to actually
> > get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
> > pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
> > you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
> > years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
> > help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
> > pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
> > a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
> > a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
> > topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
> > at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
> > dialog open.
> >
> >
> > Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR job to FLY SAFE
> > and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
> > "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10 community,
> > but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
> > builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
> > cause claims, or especially death, in our model
> > of aircraft.
> >
> > --
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==========
> > "
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> > ==========
> > MS -
> > k">http://forums.matronics.com
> > ==========
> > e -
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ==========
> >
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
Hi David,
As Kelly said, you could swap injectors on your own engine
to see if you can get the high and low's closer together.
That's one option. Otherwise, you could buy a couple
of other injectors swap them around too. Aerosport has a
flow system to check and balance them. You may be able
to send your injectors to a place like that and see if they
can match them up for you.
Also, with the EFIS you have, you'll want to buy a copy of
EGView, by EGTrends. It's got a GAMI leaning module in it
so you can download your data on some nice slow leaning
runs, and it will actually tell you how far off your injectors
are, and what kind of flow increase/decrease you want.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
dmaib@mac.com wrote:
>
> Now that my engine is broken in and running well, I am starting to
> run LOP and have one injector (#4) that is a bit rich compared to the
> other 5. It does not peak until the other cylinders are 10 to 30
> degrees LOP. My engine is a stock IO-540 C4B5 that was overhauled
> locally in Minnesota. I am interested in finding someone who will be
> willing to work with me to get the injectors matched closely. I had
> GAMI injectors on my old Bonanza and they were great. But, I don't
> want to spend the money for GAMI's on the Lycoming. This is standard
> Bendix fuel injection system. Any thoughts or ideas will be
> appreciated.
>
> -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
The way I read the FAR 61.31 (f) it is required to be "legal". The response
I received was not that a person would not be HP qualified by the time I
finished RV10 transition training but that I could not sign their book on
the transition training basis.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
What a crock, typical SDL FSDO! I have yet to figure out what the "big" deal
is about HP endorsement. I've flown both Aztec 250 and a Mooney 231. Neither
had the need for rudder nor acceleration that my 200 hp(+/- 5%) Mooney has,
because of their greater weight. They didn't land much different either.
Based on prior flight in the Aztec I'm grandfathered for HP anyway.
What the heck would you put in a syllabus to "train" someone for HP
endorsement that already has complex endorsement? Be aware of extra P factor
on takeoff and extra potential sink rate on approach?
On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 8:47 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
> One other thing; be sure and get your high performance endorsement
> along the way. I had planned to offer RV10 transition training in the
> Phoenix area but after submitting the plan to the FSDO, the subject of
> the high performance endorsement surfaced. I was told that I could not
> sign a HP endorsement as a part of the transition because that could
> be accomplished in certified aircraft (even though a person will not
> be considered proficient in an RV10 without the instruction for it.).
> Upon hearing that I decided that I don't need to do this and canned
> the paperwork
>
> COM CFII A&P.
> ________________________________
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
Message 38
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Page 14-3 step 5. Tonight I was riveting the W-1025B-R Flap hinge rib
and W-1025A Flap hinge bracket to one of the W-1011-L inboard wing ribs
and my rivet gun slipped. Bottom line is that I "smilied" the flap
hinge rib a little bit below one of the rivets. I'll attach pictures
for details. Is there enough strength in the rest of the rib/rivets to
leave it alone or do I need to fix it??? If I need to fix it could I
cut a doubler to go over the damaged hole and to the rivets surrounding
the damaged hole???
Also, while I'm at it, I'm only building the left wing so far as I go.
When I go back to the right wing are all of the wing ribs the same as
the instructions say for the left wing or do I put a -R rib where a -L
rib is shown in the instructions? I know--clear as mud, right?. I
remember some discussion about this subject a few years ago and don't
remember the answers.
Thanks
Bill
Message 39
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| Subject: | Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Rule of thumb; If the pilot has significant flying time,IR and complex and
HP endorsements insurance will be 2% or less per year. Low time pilots ( 300
TT VFR) figure 3% , newly minted private pilots can figure 4%+. Consider the
insurance company point of view. One, this airplane has very rapid
acceleration on the ground. Secondly it is fast in the air and the aircraft
has cruise speeds 50%-60% higher than typical trainer aircraft. This means
that the VFR pilot can get into weather a lot faster and easier. Here in AZ,
the weather is usually clear and 50 but the 10 will get the pilot to the
state boundaries in an hour in any direction. The 5-6 hour range can easily
take one into the LA basin, Reno, etc. If fact one of my first trips with
the airplane I flew it to Reno expecting the usual visual approach during
last summer. At 30 miles SE the ATIS was offering the ILS 16R with
visibilities just above minimums at 1 and 1/4 miles. The ILS went fine
including the controller vectoring the B737 behind me back and forth across
the localizer to prevent him from running over me. My point is that the
faster airplane can get a pilot to destination a lot faster and into
potential danger sooner. Another consideration is the gee whiz electronics;
it takes flight time to become familiar with all the new stuff offered. I
know I have pushed the wrong button on occasion and tried to determine how
to return to a previous setting. Just some reasons why an insurance company
might be cautious about the insurance requirements.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
I hear you Don, that's why I brought it up. It stinks to be blind sided by
such financial news. I know when I finished my RV-10, I had maybe $1,000 to
my name. I was actually worried that I may not be able to earn fast enough
to pay for the fuel to fly it off in a reasonable amount of time.
Think about it, the flyoff alone will cost $1500-3000 in fuel. And after
not even thinking about it through the build, you call your insurance guy up
a month before you fly and get a quote and find out that your insurance is
going to run you maybe a minimum of $2500 (roughly) or as much as $6,000 (if
you have low time), before you can even take off for your first flight. Oh,
and then you need that transition training...save a $500-1000 or more for
that, because you're going to pay for a plane, an instructor, and the travel
to get you there if you need to fly with the common 2 Transition trainers.
It all adds up. That's why I figured I'd use my wife's example as an
illustration. It gives people a heads up for what to plan for.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Don McDonald wrote:
> Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups and
> comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last paragraph
> below, you wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-time
> pilots start shopping for insurance. So far most people have at least
> had a couple hundred hours of time". My objection is you using the
> word "interesting". It's not at all interesting, it's a total pain in
> the ass. These insurance companies have gone bonkers. They wanted me
> to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific number of takeoffs and
> landings.... that was fine, then, however, they wanted another 10
> hours of dual instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but the
> kicker was; if the 40 hours were not yet flown off the plane, I must
> hire a test pilot to fly them off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me
> for the wonderful cost of almost $6,000 per year. And this was the
> only company I found that would even provide a quote!!!!
> Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no time.
> Just kiddin' ya Tim.
> Don McDonald
> #40636
> BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
> the policy
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41 PM
>
>
> Eric,
>
> I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably
> easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP
> is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I just
> had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds
> like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK
> at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that
> they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
> real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane
> for training. And, they found one company that would cover a
> 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000
> additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).
>
> I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this
> in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going
> to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.
> That's probably the biggest killer.
>
> I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and
> then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause
> that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least
> 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.
> You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
>
> It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
> start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> at least had a couple hundred hours of time.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Eric Ekberg wrote:
> > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a student
> pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k
hull); only
> requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a -10
would be
> any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a different
company.
> >
> > Eric
> > do not archive
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com
> <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
> >
> > <robin1@mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
> >
> > Tim,
> > I have a business partner that came from a flying family
(8
> > pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to fly so
I
> > purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K.
We
> went
> > through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before
he
> > trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to
handing them
> > off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were
> extremely
> > comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their
> > certification went well. I then let a number of other friends
and
> > associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations
have
> been
> > really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this
purchase. I
> > believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to
lose
> > too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions
> excluded).
> > While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a
multi
> > person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in
your
> own
> > plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or
> training
> > in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total
ownership
> costs
> > of a trainer.
> >
> > Robin
> > STILL in paint
> > Do Not Archive
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Tim
> Olson
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
the
> policy
> >
> > <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
> >
> > Recently my wife has been interested in learning to fly.
> > She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
> > but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
> > She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she
> > wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
> >
> > So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of things
> > like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
> > Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in
> > case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
> > Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
> > so that she can be listed.
> >
> > See the bottom of the email for final comments, but...
> >
> > What I found was:
> >
> > "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model pilot"
> >
> > Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be listed
> > on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
> >
> > ----
> >
> > "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total hours,
> > he would need 5 hours of dual."
> >
> > So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add my
> > dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
> > total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
> > 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
> >
> > ----
> >
> > And regarding my wife:
> > "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
> > unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
> > is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
> > minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
> > PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
> > Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
> >
> > "I could try another company with her having 100 total
> > hours but the premium will come in higher then your
> > current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
> >
> > -----
> >
> > So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> > importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
> > RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
> > rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
> > insurance out there for someone with less hours,
> > but I've basically come to the conclusion that
> > there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
> > to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
> > 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> > to use for instruction....who wants to actually
> > get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
> > pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
> > you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
> > years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
> > help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
> > pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
> > a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
> > a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
> > topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
> > at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
> > dialog open.
> >
> >
> > Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR job to FLY SAFE
> > and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
> > "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10 community,
> > but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
> > builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
> > cause claims, or especially death, in our model
> > of aircraft.
> >
> > --
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==========
> > "
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> > ==========
> > MS -
> > k">http://forums.matronics.com
> > ==========
> > e -
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ==========
> >
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
And another reason the "Insurance Company" is doing this...Capital..
Lest we forget the current economic times...Insurance investments have in the past
been pretty stable...but insurance companies relay on investments to grow
capital and earn money...consider your small investment in the markets compared
to...and I hate to say it AIG...How has your year been? Mine sucked...but not
even close to the losses insurance companies and other financial based business
have suffered. So where do you think they will recover a portion of that loss?
Premiums on written policies...expect tighter adjusting practices as well...
Rick Sked
40185
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
Rule of thumb; If the pilot has significant flying time,IR and complex and
HP endorsements insurance will be 2% or less per year. Low time pilots ( 300
TT VFR) figure 3% , newly minted private pilots can figure 4%+. Consider the
insurance company point of view. One, this airplane has very rapid
acceleration on the ground. Secondly it is fast in the air and the aircraft
has cruise speeds 50%-60% higher than typical trainer aircraft. This means
that the VFR pilot can get into weather a lot faster and easier. Here in AZ,
the weather is usually clear and 50 but the 10 will get the pilot to the
state boundaries in an hour in any direction. The 5-6 hour range can easily
take one into the LA basin, Reno, etc. If fact one of my first trips with
the airplane I flew it to Reno expecting the usual visual approach during
last summer. At 30 miles SE the ATIS was offering the ILS 16R with
visibilities just above minimums at 1 and 1/4 miles. The ILS went fine
including the controller vectoring the B737 behind me back and forth across
the localizer to prevent him from running over me. My point is that the
faster airplane can get a pilot to destination a lot faster and into
potential danger sooner. Another consideration is the gee whiz electronics;
it takes flight time to become familiar with all the new stuff offered. I
know I have pushed the wrong button on occasion and tried to determine how
to return to a previous setting. Just some reasons why an insurance company
might be cautious about the insurance requirements.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
I hear you Don, that's why I brought it up. It stinks to be blind sided by
such financial news. I know when I finished my RV-10, I had maybe $1,000 to
my name. I was actually worried that I may not be able to earn fast enough
to pay for the fuel to fly it off in a reasonable amount of time.
Think about it, the flyoff alone will cost $1500-3000 in fuel. And after
not even thinking about it through the build, you call your insurance guy up
a month before you fly and get a quote and find out that your insurance is
going to run you maybe a minimum of $2500 (roughly) or as much as $6,000 (if
you have low time), before you can even take off for your first flight. Oh,
and then you need that transition training...save a $500-1000 or more for
that, because you're going to pay for a plane, an instructor, and the travel
to get you there if you need to fly with the common 2 Transition trainers.
It all adds up. That's why I figured I'd use my wife's example as an
illustration. It gives people a heads up for what to plan for.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Don McDonald wrote:
> Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups and
> comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last paragraph
> below, you wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-time
> pilots start shopping for insurance. So far most people have at least
> had a couple hundred hours of time". My objection is you using the
> word "interesting". It's not at all interesting, it's a total pain in
> the ass. These insurance companies have gone bonkers. They wanted me
> to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific number of takeoffs and
> landings.... that was fine, then, however, they wanted another 10
> hours of dual instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but the
> kicker was; if the 40 hours were not yet flown off the plane, I must
> hire a test pilot to fly them off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me
> for the wonderful cost of almost $6,000 per year. And this was the
> only company I found that would even provide a quote!!!!
> Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no time.
> Just kiddin' ya Tim.
> Don McDonald
> #40636
> BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
> the policy
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41 PM
>
>
> Eric,
>
> I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably
> easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP
> is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I just
> had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds
> like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK
> at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that
> they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
> real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane
> for training. And, they found one company that would cover a
> 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000
> additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).
>
> I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this
> in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going
> to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.
> That's probably the biggest killer.
>
> I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and
> then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause
> that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least
> 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.
> You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
>
> It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
> start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> at least had a couple hundred hours of time.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Eric Ekberg wrote:
> > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a student
> pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k
hull); only
> requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a -10
would be
> any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a different
company.
> >
> > Eric
> > do not archive
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com
> <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
> >
> > <robin1@mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
> >
> > Tim,
> > I have a business partner that came from a flying family
(8
> > pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to fly so
I
> > purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K.
We
> went
> > through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before
he
> > trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to
handing them
> > off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were
> extremely
> > comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their
> > certification went well. I then let a number of other friends
and
> > associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations
have
> been
> > really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this
purchase. I
> > believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to
lose
> > too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions
> excluded).
> > While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a
multi
> > person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in
your
> own
> > plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or
> training
> > in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total
ownership
> costs
> > of a trainer.
> >
> > Robin
> > STILL in paint
> > Do Not Archive
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Tim
> Olson
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
the
> policy
> >
> > <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
> >
> > Recently my wife has been interested in learning to fly.
> > She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
> > but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
> > She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she
> > wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
> >
> > So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of things
> > like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
> > Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in
> > case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
> > Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
> > so that she can be listed.
> >
> > See the bottom of the email for final comments, but...
> >
> > What I found was:
> >
> > "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model pilot"
> >
> > Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be listed
> > on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
> >
> > ----
> >
> > "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total hours,
> > he would need 5 hours of dual."
> >
> > So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add my
> > dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
> > total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
> > 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
> >
> > ----
> >
> > And regarding my wife:
> > "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
> > unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
> > is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
> > minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
> > PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
> > Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
> >
> > "I could try another company with her having 100 total
> > hours but the premium will come in higher then your
> > current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
> >
> > -----
> >
> > So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> > importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
> > RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
> > rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
> > insurance out there for someone with less hours,
> > but I've basically come to the conclusion that
> > there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
> > to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
> > 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> > to use for instruction....who wants to actually
> > get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
> > pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
> > you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
> > years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
> > help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
> > pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
> > a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
> > a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
> > topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
> > at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
> > dialog open.
> >
> >
> > Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR job to FLY SAFE
> > and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
> > "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10 community,
> > but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
> > builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
> > cause claims, or especially death, in our model
> > of aircraft.
> >
> > --
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==========
> > "
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> > ==========
> > MS -
> > k">http://forums.matronics.com
> > ==========
> > e -
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ==========
> >
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 41
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
You're right on... when you start adding it up... wow.....- Then they won
der why the number of new pilots is down.- With 10 hours of dual = $1,5
00, 10 hours of instruments = $1,500, transportation and such getting the
re $500, 40 hours for a test pilot = $4,000, Fuel for the 40= $1,500...
.- total $9,000.... then $6,000 for insurance.- $15,000 before getting
in the airplane.- Not sure what I'll do.
Don
--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the polic
y
I hear you Don, that's why I brought it up. It stinks to be
blind sided by such financial news. I know when I finished
my RV-10, I had maybe $1,000 to my name. I was actually
worried that I may not be able to earn fast enough to pay
for the fuel to fly it off in a reasonable amount of time.
Think about it, the flyoff alone will cost $1500-3000 in
fuel. And after not even thinking about it through the build,
you call your insurance guy up a month before you fly and
get a quote and find out that your insurance is going to
run you maybe a minimum of $2500 (roughly) or as much as
$6,000 (if you have low time), before you can even take off
for your first flight. Oh, and then you need that transition
training...save a $500-1000 or more for that, because you're
going to pay for a plane, an instructor, and the travel to
get you there if you need to fly with the common 2 Transition
trainers. It all adds up. That's why I figured I'd use my
wife's example as an illustration. It gives people a heads up
for what to plan for.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Don McDonald wrote:
> Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups and
comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last paragraph below
, you
wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> at least had a couple hundred hours of time". My objection is you
using the word "interesting". It's not at all interesting,
it's a total pain in the ass. These insurance companies have gone bonkers.
They wanted me to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific number of
takeoffs and landings.... that was fine, then, however, they wanted another
10
hours of dual instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but the kicker
was; if the 40 hours were not yet flown off the plane, I must hire a test
pilot
to fly them off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me for the wonderful cost
of
almost $6,000 per year. And this was the only company I found that would
even
provide a quote!!!!
> Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no time.
> Just kiddin' ya Tim.
> Don McDonald
> #40636
> BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
> the policy
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41 PM
>
>
> Eric,
>
> I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably
> easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP
> is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I just
> had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds
> like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK
> at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that
> they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
> real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane
> for training. And, they found one company that would cover a
> 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000
> additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).
>
> I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this
> in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is
going
> to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.
> That's probably the biggest killer.
>
> I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and
> then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause
> that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least
> 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.
> You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
>
> It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
> start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> at least had a couple hundred hours of time.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Eric Ekberg wrote:
> > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a
student
> pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k
hull); only
> requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a -10
would be
> any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a different
company.
> > > Eric
> > do not archive
> > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks
<robin1@mrmoisture.com
> <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
Marks"
> > <robin1@mrmoisture.com
<mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
> > > Tim,
> > I have a business partner that came from a flying
family (8
> > pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to
fly so I
> > purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like
$17K. We
> went
> > through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100%
before he
> > trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to
handing them
> > off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were
> extremely
> > comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of
their
> > certification went well. I then let a number of other friends
and
> > associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight
operations have
> been
> > really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this
purchase. I
> > believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect
to lose
> > too much when it's time to sell (current market
conditions
> excluded).
> > While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a
multi
> > person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly
in your
> own
> > plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees
or
> training
> > in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total
ownership
> costs
> > of a trainer.
> > > Robin
> > STILL in paint
> > Do Not Archive
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On
Behalf Of Tim
> Olson
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
the
> policy
<Tim@myrv10.com
> > <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
> > > Recently my wife has been interested in learning to
fly.
> > She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
> > but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
> > She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she
> > wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
> > > So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of
things
> > like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
> > Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in
> > case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
> > Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
> > so that she can be listed.
> > > See the bottom of the email for final comments,
but...
> > > What I found was:
> > > "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model
pilot"
> > > Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be
listed
> > on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
> > > ----
> > > "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total
hours,
> > he would need 5 hours of dual."
> > > So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add
my
> > dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
> > total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
> > 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
> > > ----
> > > And regarding my wife:
> > "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
> > unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
> > is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
> > minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
> > PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
> > Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
> > > "I could try another company with her having
100 total
> > hours but the premium will come in higher then your
> > current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
> > > -----
> > > So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> > importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
> > RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
> > rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
> > insurance out there for someone with less hours,
> > but I've basically come to the conclusion that
> > there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
> > to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
> > 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> > to use for instruction....who wants to actually
> > get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
> > pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
> > you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
> > years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
> > help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
> > pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
> > a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
> > a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
> > topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
> > at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
> > dialog open.
> > > > Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR
job to FLY SAFE
> > and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
> > "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10
community,
> > but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
> > builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
> > cause claims, or especially death, in our model
> > of aircraft.
> > > --
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> > > > > > > > >
==========
> > "
>
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> > ==========
> > MS -
> > k">http://forums.matronics.com
> > ==========
> > e -
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ==========
> > > > > *
> > > > *
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
=0A=0A=0A
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib OOPS |
Bill,
That doesn't look too bad, I'd probably just leave it, unless you see
that it really went deep into that rib. But it really doesn't look
worth worrying about. If you did do a doubler, you'd want to do one
that covered a bunch more area, so you'd probably end up removing
at least a couple more rivets.
For building those wings, you may find it goes quicker to do them
together if you have space. Plus, you can compare parts and make
sure that both sides look like their respective drawings. Just
pay attention to how the ribs are placed in the drawings and you'll
do fine there too.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Bill and Tami Britton wrote:
> Page 14-3 step 5. Tonight I was riveting the W-1025B-R Flap hinge rib
> and W-1025A Flap hinge bracket to one of the W-1011-L inboard wing ribs
> and my rivet gun slipped. Bottom line is that I "smilied" the flap
> hinge rib a little bit below one of the rivets. I'll attach pictures
> for details. Is there enough strength in the rest of the rib/rivets to
> leave it alone or do I need to fix it??? If I need to fix it could I
> cut a doubler to go over the damaged hole and to the rivets surrounding
> the damaged hole???
>
> Also, while I'm at it, I'm only building the left wing so far as I go.
> When I go back to the right wing are all of the wing ribs the same as
> the instructions say for the left wing or do I put a -R rib where a -L
> rib is shown in the instructions? I know--clear as mud, right?. I
> remember some discussion about this subject a few years ago and don't
> remember the answers.
>
> Thanks
> Bill
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
You wouldn't need to spend $4,000 to get a person to be your
test pilot, if you do a good job building. I bet you can
find some help for free.
One of the guys I work with who is planning to take his private
pilot course is all gung-ho on buying a plane or building. I
told him to put the reigns on it a bit...before he launches
out building a family 4-place, he will do himself a favor by
buying a <$50,000 4 seater first. Our Sundowner was under
$50k and it brought lots of fun. With a $50K hull value,
insurance was $900-1100, and the $1,100 was the cost during
the time my father learned to fly in it. He bought it to
learn in. It worked out real well, and gave an easy entry
into the world of flying for a few years. Plus, it gave
us something to fly while I built the RV-10. You may
actually be well off to do what Robin talked about.... buy
a nice Cessna 150 and just start flying a ton this year.
Get your hours up there, maybe 100 hours or so. The 150
will be cheap to run. At that point, you go get checked
out and rent a HP plane, or get some retract time just for
kicks for 10 hours or so. That will give you more of
a taste for slippery planes. THEN you should have a much
easier time getting affordable insurance for your RV-10,
and you may actually save so much that it would pay for
a bunch of those flight hours.
I had many great learning experiences in a rented Beech
Sierra (retract + 200hp) early on, too. I found it was
surprisingly much easier to get behind the airplane in that
plane than it was the Cardinals and 172's that I had been
flying. It was good eye opening time when you're a low-time
pilot. It also prepared me for flying the RV-10 a little.
I have had my wife nearly land the RV-10 on her own
before. She does a fair job of getting everything to
go together. Despite what some people say though, I really
don't think it's a great plane to start out in. When she
hits the power to go around, it's a real handful, especially
when you have the electric trim set for landing config
with full flaps. It takes off on a touch-n-go almost
immediately, accelerates VERY fast, and pitches up pretty
steep, forcing you to really get those flaps retracted and
that trim moving down. It was eye opening for me to watch
her, as I realized how much harder and faster everything
was for a new student, because you can really get a ton
coming at you in a short time. There really IS something
to be said for learning in an "old" plane with manual
trim, no EFIS, and much lower power. I think she'll actually
do great in a C150. Even the landing speed would be lower
and more comfortable, making it much easier. The problem
is, most comments you get from RV builders will be "Oh, it's
really easy to fly...I wouldn't worry about training in it."
But, by the time that person has built their RV and is giving
the advice, they have long since forgotten exactly how
those first 40 hours were for them. The -10 definitely
is capable of being one of the easiest landing planes
there is....I have a very high percentage of what I feel are
great landings in it...compared to how other planes have
been for me. But, there is so much power and so many
cool gizmos like electric flaps, trim, and gadgets that
we have in our planes that it may not be best for starting
training in. Or at least, put 20 hours in a spam can before
jumping into the RV-10...even that would help.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Don McDonald wrote:
> You're right on... when you start adding it up... wow..... Then they
> wonder why the number of new pilots is down. With 10 hours of dual =
> $1,500, 10 hours of instruments = $1,500, transportation and such
> getting there $500, 40 hours for a test pilot = $4,000, Fuel for the 40=
> $1,500.... total $9,000.... then $6,000 for insurance. $15,000 before
> getting in the airplane. Not sure what I'll do.
> Don
>
> --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@myrv10.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
> the policy
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 8:41 PM
>
>
> I hear you Don, that's why I brought it up. It stinks to be
> blind sided by such financial news. I know when I finished
> my RV-10, I had maybe $1,000 to my name. I was actually
> worried that I may not be able to earn fast enough to pay
> for the fuel to fly it off in a reasonable amount of time.
> Think about it, the flyoff alone will cost $1500-3000 in
> fuel. And after not even thinking about it through the build,
> you call your insurance guy up a month before you fly and
> get a quote and find out that your insurance is going to
> run you maybe a minimum of $2500 (roughly) or as much as
> $6,000 (if you have low time), before you can even take off
> for your first flight. Oh, and then you need that transition
> training...save a $500-1000 or more for that, because you're
> going to pay for a plane, an instructor, and the travel to
> get you there if you need to fly with the common 2 Transition
> trainers. It all adds up. That's why I figured I'd use my
> wife's example as an illustration. It gives people a heads up
> for what to plan for.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Don McDonald wrote:
> > Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups and
> comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last paragraph below,
you
> wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
> start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> > at least had a couple hundred hours of time". My objection is you
> using the word "interesting". It's not at all interesting,
> it's a total pain in the ass. These insurance companies have gone bonkers.
> They wanted me to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific number of
> takeoffs and landings.... that was fine, then, however, they wanted another
10
> hours of dual instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but the kicker
> was; if the 40 hours were not yet flown off the plane, I must hire a test
pilot
> to fly them off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me for the wonderful cost
of
> almost $6,000 per year. And this was the only company I found that would
even
> provide a quote!!!!
> > Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no time.
> > Just kiddin' ya Tim.
> > Don McDonald
> > #40636
> > BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.
> >
> >
> > --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
> >
> > From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
> > the policy
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41 PM
> >
> >
> > Eric,
> >
> > I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably
> > easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP
> > is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I just
> > had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds
> > like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK
> > at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that
> > they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
> > real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane
> > for training. And, they found one company that would cover a
> > 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000
> > additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).
> >
> > I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this
> > in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is
> going
> > to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.
> > That's probably the biggest killer.
> >
> > I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and
> > then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause
> > that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least
> > 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.
> > You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
> >
> > It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
> > start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> > at least had a couple hundred hours of time.
> >
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> > Eric Ekberg wrote:
> > > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a
> student
> > pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k
> hull); only
> > requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a -10
> would be
> > any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a different
> company.
> > > > Eric
> > > do not archive
> > > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks
> <robin1@mrmoisture.com
> > <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
> Marks"
> > > <robin1@mrmoisture.com
> <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
> > > > Tim,
> > > I have a business partner that came from a flying
> family (8
> > > pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to
> fly so I
> > > purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like
> $17K. We
> > went
> > > through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100%
> before he
> > > trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to
> handing them
> > > off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were
> > extremely
> > > comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of
> their
> > > certification went well. I then let a number of other friends
> and
> > > associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight
> operations have
> > been
> > > really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this
> purchase. I
> > > believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect
> to lose
> > > too much when it's time to sell (current market
> conditions
> > excluded).
> > > While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a
> multi
> > > person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly
> in your
> > own
> > > plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees
> or
> > training
> > > in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total
> ownership
> > costs
> > > of a trainer.
> > > > Robin
> > > STILL in paint
> > > Do Not Archive
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On
> Behalf Of Tim
> > Olson
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
> > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
> the
> > policy
> <Tim@myrv10.com
> > > <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
> > > > Recently my wife has been interested in learning to
> fly.
> > > She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
> > > but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
> > > She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she
> > > wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
> > > > So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of
> things
> > > like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
> > > Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in
> > > case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
> > > Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
> > > so that she can be listed.
> > > > See the bottom of the email for final comments,
> but...
> > > > What I found was:
> > > > "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model
> pilot"
> > > > Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be
> listed
> > > on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
> > > > ----
> > > > "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total
> hours,
> > > he would need 5 hours of dual."
> > > > So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add
> my
> > > dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
> > > total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
> > > 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
> > > > ----
> > > > And regarding my wife:
> > > "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
> > > unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
> > > is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
> > > minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
> > > PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
> > > Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
> > > > "I could try another company with her having
> 100 total
> > > hours but the premium will come in higher then your
> > > current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
> > > > -----
> > > > So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> > > importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
> > > RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
> > > rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
> > > insurance out there for someone with less hours,
> > > but I've basically come to the conclusion that
> > > there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
> > > to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
> > > 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> > > to use for instruction....who wants to actually
> > > get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
> > > pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
> > > you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
> > > years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
> > > help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
> > > pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
> > > a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
> > > a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
> > > topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
> > > at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
> > > dialog open.
> > > > > Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR
> job to FLY SAFE
> > > and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
> > > "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10
> community,
> > > but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
> > > builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
> > > cause claims, or especially death, in our model
> > > of aircraft.
> > > > --
> > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> > > > > > > > > >
> ==========
> > > "
> >
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> > > ==========
> > > MS -
> > > k">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > ==========
> > > e -
> > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > > ==========
> > > > > > *
> > > > > *
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
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