Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:13 AM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Robin Marks)
2. 01:03 AM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Robin Marks)
3. 01:34 AM - Re: Re: Composite Class for RV-10s May 9-10 2009 (Patrick ONeill)
4. 03:24 AM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (David McNeill)
5. 03:30 AM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (doctornigel)
6. 04:02 AM - Re: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (David McNeill)
7. 04:13 AM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (dmaib@mac.com)
8. 05:18 AM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (tomhanaway)
9. 05:35 AM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Deems Davis)
10. 05:42 AM - Re: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (David McNeill)
11. 06:05 AM - Re: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (linn)
12. 06:09 AM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (David McNeill)
13. 06:22 AM - Re: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Kelly McMullen)
14. 06:32 AM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (jim@CombsFive.Com)
15. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (David McNeill)
16. 06:55 AM - Emailing: IMG_1537 (David McNeill)
17. 07:10 AM - Re: Wing Rib OOPS (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
18. 08:06 AM - Re: Wing Rib OOPS (Andy Turner)
19. 08:22 AM - Re: Wing Rib OOPS (Dean Van Winkle)
20. 08:39 AM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (Bill DeRouchey)
21. 08:46 AM - Re: Started (John Cumins)
22. 08:46 AM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (Randy Lervold)
23. 09:00 AM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (John Cumins)
24. 09:17 AM - Re: Wing Rib OOPS (Bill and Tami Britton)
25. 09:19 AM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (Rene Felker)
26. 09:53 AM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Don McDonald)
27. 10:05 AM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (David Maib)
28. 10:47 AM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (Tim Olson)
29. 11:42 AM - Re: AirCrafters Overhead Consoles--Price Reduced (jim mclaughlin)
30. 11:51 AM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (Rhonda Bewley)
31. 12:13 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Bob Turner)
32. 12:21 PM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (Kelly McMullen)
33. 12:22 PM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (Kelly McMullen)
34. 12:26 PM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (Kelly McMullen)
35. 12:28 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Bob Turner)
36. 01:03 PM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (jim@CombsFive.Com)
37. 01:41 PM - Nose Wheels (richard sipp)
38. 01:47 PM - Re: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Tim Olson)
39. 01:52 PM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (John Cox)
40. 03:34 PM - Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching (David Maib)
41. 08:52 PM - Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (KiloPapa)
42. 09:18 PM - Re: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy (Bob Kaufmann)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Tim,
You had me till the word Sundowner.... But I like your thinking
with MANY great points.
How about building a 10 and 12 at the same time. Finish the 12
quickly for something to fly and build hours while you work on the -10.
I can see some peoples living rooms now. Does this rivet to the -12 or
screw to the -10?
If we are talking about starter planes one expects OLD starter
planes. Avoid retrace if at all possible. The combination of low Hp and
extra weight and complexity make them less of a "value proposition."
(Heck the donuts in the Sundowner were bad enough). I remember hearing
on 3 different occasions rental Triple 9 Juliette call for the tower to
visual their landing gear. The goal is comfortable, affordable,
utilitarian and most of all able to be resold without major repairs. Buy
a starter plane right and it can dare I say it... be economical. Sadly I
bet there are some fire sales coming this summer.
Regarding costs for the fly off. We chased (R&D) temperature
issues for all 40 hours. That meant running very rich for 30+ hours
right about the time fuel prices were peaking. Can you say ouch? Some
smart fueling kept our average cost/gallon down but it was definitely a
noticeable line item. Try to get the airport with the lowest fuel rate
covered in your designated area.
Welcome to the recent new builders, lurkers and those high
number kits.
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
policy
You wouldn't need to spend $4,000 to get a person to be your
test pilot, if you do a good job building. I bet you can
find some help for free.
One of the guys I work with who is planning to take his private
pilot course is all gung-ho on buying a plane or building. I
told him to put the reigns on it a bit...before he launches
out building a family 4-place, he will do himself a favor by
buying a <$50,000 4 seater first. Our Sundowner was under
$50k and it brought lots of fun. With a $50K hull value,
insurance was $900-1100, and the $1,100 was the cost during
the time my father learned to fly in it. He bought it to
learn in. It worked out real well, and gave an easy entry
into the world of flying for a few years. Plus, it gave
us something to fly while I built the RV-10. You may
actually be well off to do what Robin talked about.... buy
a nice Cessna 150 and just start flying a ton this year.
Get your hours up there, maybe 100 hours or so. The 150
will be cheap to run. At that point, you go get checked
out and rent a HP plane, or get some retract time just for
kicks for 10 hours or so. That will give you more of
a taste for slippery planes. THEN you should have a much
easier time getting affordable insurance for your RV-10,
and you may actually save so much that it would pay for
a bunch of those flight hours.
I had many great learning experiences in a rented Beech
Sierra (retract + 200hp) early on, too. I found it was
surprisingly much easier to get behind the airplane in that
plane than it was the Cardinals and 172's that I had been
flying. It was good eye opening time when you're a low-time
pilot. It also prepared me for flying the RV-10 a little.
I have had my wife nearly land the RV-10 on her own
before. She does a fair job of getting everything to
go together. Despite what some people say though, I really
don't think it's a great plane to start out in. When she
hits the power to go around, it's a real handful, especially
when you have the electric trim set for landing config
with full flaps. It takes off on a touch-n-go almost
immediately, accelerates VERY fast, and pitches up pretty
steep, forcing you to really get those flaps retracted and
that trim moving down. It was eye opening for me to watch
her, as I realized how much harder and faster everything
was for a new student, because you can really get a ton
coming at you in a short time. There really IS something
to be said for learning in an "old" plane with manual
trim, no EFIS, and much lower power. I think she'll actually
do great in a C150. Even the landing speed would be lower
and more comfortable, making it much easier. The problem
is, most comments you get from RV builders will be "Oh, it's
really easy to fly...I wouldn't worry about training in it."
But, by the time that person has built their RV and is giving
the advice, they have long since forgotten exactly how
those first 40 hours were for them. The -10 definitely
is capable of being one of the easiest landing planes
there is....I have a very high percentage of what I feel are
great landings in it...compared to how other planes have
been for me. But, there is so much power and so many
cool gizmos like electric flaps, trim, and gadgets that
we have in our planes that it may not be best for starting
training in. Or at least, put 20 hours in a spam can before
jumping into the RV-10...even that would help.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Don McDonald wrote:
> You're right on... when you start adding it up... wow..... Then they
> wonder why the number of new pilots is down. With 10 hours of dual
=
> $1,500, 10 hours of instruments = $1,500, transportation and such
> getting there $500, 40 hours for a test pilot = $4,000, Fuel for the
40=
> $1,500.... total $9,000.... then $6,000 for insurance. $15,000
before
> getting in the airplane. Not sure what I'll do.
> Don
>
> --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@myrv10.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
> the policy
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 8:41 PM
>
>
> I hear you Don, that's why I brought it up. It stinks to be
> blind sided by such financial news. I know when I finished
> my RV-10, I had maybe $1,000 to my name. I was actually
> worried that I may not be able to earn fast enough to pay
> for the fuel to fly it off in a reasonable amount of time.
> Think about it, the flyoff alone will cost $1500-3000 in
> fuel. And after not even thinking about it through the build,
> you call your insurance guy up a month before you fly and
> get a quote and find out that your insurance is going to
> run you maybe a minimum of $2500 (roughly) or as much as
> $6,000 (if you have low time), before you can even take off
> for your first flight. Oh, and then you need that transition
> training...save a $500-1000 or more for that, because you're
> going to pay for a plane, an instructor, and the travel to
> get you there if you need to fly with the common 2 Transition
> trainers. It all adds up. That's why I figured I'd use my
> wife's example as an illustration. It gives people a heads up
> for what to plan for.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Don McDonald wrote:
> > Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups
and
> comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last
paragraph below, you
> wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
> start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> > at least had a couple hundred hours of time". My objection is
you
> using the word "interesting". It's not at all interesting,
> it's a total pain in the ass. These insurance companies have gone
bonkers.
> They wanted me to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific
number of
> takeoffs and landings.... that was fine, then, however, they
wanted another 10
> hours of dual instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but
the kicker
> was; if the 40 hours were not yet flown off the plane, I must
hire a test pilot
> to fly them off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me for the
wonderful cost of
> almost $6,000 per year. And this was the only company I found
that would even
> provide a quote!!!!
> > Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no
time.
> > Just kiddin' ya Tim.
> > Don McDonald
> > #40636
> > BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.
> >
> >
> > --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
> >
> > From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time
pilots on
> > the policy
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41 PM
> >
> >
> > Eric,
> >
> > I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to
fly...probably
> > easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with
260HP
> > is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I
just
> > had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it
sounds
> > like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK
> > at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee
that
> > they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
> > real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane
> > for training. And, they found one company that would cover
a
> > 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe
$1200-2000
> > additional cost from what my insurance is right now
($2700-2850).
> >
> > I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this
> > in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is
> going
> > to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to
2.
> > That's probably the biggest killer.
> >
> > I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate
and
> > then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause
> > that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least
> > 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.
> > You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
> >
> > It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
> > start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> > at least had a couple hundred hours of time.
> >
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> > Eric Ekberg wrote:
> > > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as
a
> student
> > pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for
$105k
> hull); only
> > requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think
a -10
> would be
> > any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a
different
> company.
> > > > Eric
> > > do not archive
> > > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks
> <robin1@mrmoisture.com
> > <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
> Marks"
> > > <robin1@mrmoisture.com
> <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
> > > > Tim,
> > > I have a business partner that came from a
flying
> family (8
> > > pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18)
to
> fly so I
> > > purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something
like
> $17K. We
> > went
> > > through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was
100%
> before he
> > > trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior
to
> handing them
> > > off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were
> > extremely
> > > comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest
of
> their
> > > certification went well. I then let a number of other
friends
> and
> > > associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight
> operations have
> > been
> > > really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from
this
> purchase. I
> > > believe I bought the plane well and normally would not
expect
> to lose
> > > too much when it's time to sell (current market
> conditions
> > excluded).
> > > While this may not be a viable route for most people
maybe a
> multi
> > > person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way
to fly
> in your
> > own
> > > plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly
rental fees
> or
> > training
> > > in too much plane whose insurance costs match the
total
> ownership
> > costs
> > > of a trainer.
> > > > Robin
> > > STILL in paint
> > > Do Not Archive
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On
> Behalf Of Tim
> > Olson
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
> > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time
pilots on
> the
> > policy
> <Tim@myrv10.com
> > > <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
> > > > Recently my wife has been interested in learning
to
> fly.
> > > She would probably do her 40 hours and get her
certificate
> > > but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point
on.
> > > She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if
she
> > > wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
> > > > So I checked in to ask about insurance effects
of
> things
> > > like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
> > > Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just
in
> > > case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
> > > Adding my wife for either training, or just
post-training,
> > > so that she can be listed.
> > > > See the bottom of the email for final comments,
> but...
> > > > What I found was:
> > > > "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model
> pilot"
> > > > Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott
to be
> listed
> > > on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
> > > > ----
> > > > "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total
> hours,
> > > he would need 5 hours of dual."
> > > > So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can
add
> my
> > > dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300
hours
> > > total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
> > > 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
> > > > ----
> > > > And regarding my wife:
> > > "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
> > > unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
> > > is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
> > > minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
> > > PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
> > > Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
> > > > "I could try another company with her having
> 100 total
> > > hours but the premium will come in higher then your
> > > current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
> > > > -----
> > > > So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> > > importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
> > > RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
> > > rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
> > > insurance out there for someone with less hours,
> > > but I've basically come to the conclusion that
> > > there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
> > > to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
> > > 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> > > to use for instruction....who wants to actually
> > > get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
> > > pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
> > > you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
> > > years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
> > > help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
> > > pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
> > > a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
> > > a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
> > > topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
> > > at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
> > > dialog open.
> > > > > Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR
> job to FLY SAFE
> > > and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
> > > "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10
> community,
> > > but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
> > > builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
> > > cause claims, or especially death, in our model
> > > of aircraft.
> > > > --
> > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> > > > > > > > > >
> ==========
> > > "
> >
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> > > ==========
> > > MS -
> > > k">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > ==========
> > > e -
> > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > > ==========
> > > > > > *
> > > > > *
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
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| Subject: | Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Retract, not Retrace. It's late.
Robin
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:12 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
policy
Tim,
You had me till the word Sundowner.... But I like your thinking
with MANY great points.
How about building a 10 and 12 at the same time. Finish the 12
quickly for something to fly and build hours while you work on the -10.
I can see some peoples living rooms now. Does this rivet to the -12 or
screw to the -10?
If we are talking about starter planes one expects OLD starter
planes. Avoid retrace if at all possible. The combination of low Hp and
extra weight and complexity make them less of a "value proposition."
(Heck the donuts in the Sundowner were bad enough). I remember hearing
on 3 different occasions rental Triple 9 Juliette call for the tower to
visual their landing gear. The goal is comfortable, affordable,
utilitarian and most of all able to be resold without major repairs. Buy
a starter plane right and it can dare I say it... be economical. Sadly I
bet there are some fire sales coming this summer.
Regarding costs for the fly off. We chased (R&D) temperature
issues for all 40 hours. That meant running very rich for 30+ hours
right about the time fuel prices were peaking. Can you say ouch? Some
smart fueling kept our average cost/gallon down but it was definitely a
noticeable line item. Try to get the airport with the lowest fuel rate
covered in your designated area.
Welcome to the recent new builders, lurkers and those high
number kits.
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
policy
You wouldn't need to spend $4,000 to get a person to be your test pilot,
if you do a good job building. I bet you can find some help for free.
One of the guys I work with who is planning to take his private pilot
course is all gung-ho on buying a plane or building. I told him to put
the reigns on it a bit...before he launches out building a family
4-place, he will do himself a favor by buying a <$50,000 4 seater first.
Our Sundowner was under $50k and it brought lots of fun. With a $50K
hull value, insurance was $900-1100, and the $1,100 was the cost during
the time my father learned to fly in it. He bought it to learn in. It
worked out real well, and gave an easy entry into the world of flying
for a few years. Plus, it gave us something to fly while I built the
RV-10. You may actually be well off to do what Robin talked about....
buy a nice Cessna 150 and just start flying a ton this year.
Get your hours up there, maybe 100 hours or so. The 150 will be cheap
to run. At that point, you go get checked out and rent a HP plane, or
get some retract time just for kicks for 10 hours or so. That will give
you more of a taste for slippery planes. THEN you should have a much
easier time getting affordable insurance for your RV-10, and you may
actually save so much that it would pay for a bunch of those flight
hours.
I had many great learning experiences in a rented Beech Sierra (retract
+ 200hp) early on, too. I found it was surprisingly much easier to get
behind the airplane in that plane than it was the Cardinals and 172's
that I had been flying. It was good eye opening time when you're a
low-time pilot. It also prepared me for flying the RV-10 a little.
I have had my wife nearly land the RV-10 on her own before. She does a
fair job of getting everything to go together. Despite what some people
say though, I really don't think it's a great plane to start out in.
When she hits the power to go around, it's a real handful, especially
when you have the electric trim set for landing config with full flaps.
It takes off on a touch-n-go almost immediately, accelerates VERY fast,
and pitches up pretty steep, forcing you to really get those flaps
retracted and that trim moving down. It was eye opening for me to watch
her, as I realized how much harder and faster everything was for a new
student, because you can really get a ton coming at you in a short time.
There really IS something to be said for learning in an "old" plane with
manual trim, no EFIS, and much lower power. I think she'll actually do
great in a C150. Even the landing speed would be lower and more
comfortable, making it much easier. The problem is, most comments you
get from RV builders will be "Oh, it's really easy to fly...I wouldn't
worry about training in it."
But, by the time that person has built their RV and is giving the
advice, they have long since forgotten exactly how those first 40 hours
were for them. The -10 definitely is capable of being one of the
easiest landing planes there is....I have a very high percentage of what
I feel are great landings in it...compared to how other planes have
been for me. But, there is so much power and so many
cool gizmos like electric flaps, trim, and gadgets that we have in our
planes that it may not be best for starting training in. Or at least,
put 20 hours in a spam can before jumping into the RV-10...even that
would help.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Don McDonald wrote:
> You're right on... when you start adding it up... wow..... Then they
> wonder why the number of new pilots is down. With 10 hours of dual =
> $1,500, 10 hours of instruments = $1,500, transportation and such
> getting there $500, 40 hours for a test pilot = $4,000, Fuel for the
40=
> $1,500.... total $9,000.... then $6,000 for insurance. $15,000
before
> getting in the airplane. Not sure what I'll do.
> Don
>
> --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@myrv10.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
> the policy
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 8:41 PM
>
>
> I hear you Don, that's why I brought it up. It stinks to be
> blind sided by such financial news. I know when I finished
> my RV-10, I had maybe $1,000 to my name. I was actually
> worried that I may not be able to earn fast enough to pay
> for the fuel to fly it off in a reasonable amount of time.
> Think about it, the flyoff alone will cost $1500-3000 in
> fuel. And after not even thinking about it through the build,
> you call your insurance guy up a month before you fly and
> get a quote and find out that your insurance is going to
> run you maybe a minimum of $2500 (roughly) or as much as
> $6,000 (if you have low time), before you can even take off
> for your first flight. Oh, and then you need that transition
> training...save a $500-1000 or more for that, because you're
> going to pay for a plane, an instructor, and the travel to
> get you there if you need to fly with the common 2 Transition
> trainers. It all adds up. That's why I figured I'd use my
> wife's example as an illustration. It gives people a heads up
> for what to plan for.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Don McDonald wrote:
> > Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups
and
> comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last
paragraph below, you
> wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
> start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> > at least had a couple hundred hours of time". My objection is
you
> using the word "interesting". It's not at all interesting,
> it's a total pain in the ass. These insurance companies have gone
bonkers.
> They wanted me to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific
number of
> takeoffs and landings.... that was fine, then, however, they
wanted another 10
> hours of dual instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but
the kicker
> was; if the 40 hours were not yet flown off the plane, I must
hire a test pilot
> to fly them off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me for the
wonderful cost of
> almost $6,000 per year. And this was the only company I found
that would even
> provide a quote!!!!
> > Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no
time.
> > Just kiddin' ya Tim.
> > Don McDonald
> > #40636
> > BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.
> >
> >
> > --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
> >
> > From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time
pilots on
> > the policy
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41 PM
> >
> >
> > Eric,
> >
> > I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to
fly...probably
> > easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with
260HP
> > is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I
just
> > had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it
sounds
> > like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK
> > at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee
that
> > they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
> > real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane
> > for training. And, they found one company that would cover
a
> > 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe
$1200-2000
> > additional cost from what my insurance is right now
($2700-2850).
> >
> > I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this
> > in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is
> going
> > to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to
2.
> > That's probably the biggest killer.
> >
> > I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate
and
> > then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause
> > that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least
> > 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.
> > You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
> >
> > It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
> > start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> > at least had a couple hundred hours of time.
> >
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> > Eric Ekberg wrote:
> > > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as
a
> student
> > pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for
$105k
> hull); only
> > requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think
a -10
> would be
> > any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a
different
> company.
> > > > Eric
> > > do not archive
> > > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks
> <robin1@mrmoisture.com
> > <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
> Marks"
> > > <robin1@mrmoisture.com
> <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
> > > > Tim,
> > > I have a business partner that came from a
flying
> family (8
> > > pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18)
to
> fly so I
> > > purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something
like
> $17K. We
> > went
> > > through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was
100%
> before he
> > > trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior
to
> handing them
> > > off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were
> > extremely
> > > comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest
of
> their
> > > certification went well. I then let a number of other
friends
> and
> > > associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight
> operations have
> > been
> > > really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from
this
> purchase. I
> > > believe I bought the plane well and normally would not
expect
> to lose
> > > too much when it's time to sell (current market
> conditions
> > excluded).
> > > While this may not be a viable route for most people
maybe a
> multi
> > > person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way
to fly
> in your
> > own
> > > plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly
rental fees
> or
> > training
> > > in too much plane whose insurance costs match the
total
> ownership
> > costs
> > > of a trainer.
> > > > Robin
> > > STILL in paint
> > > Do Not Archive
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On
> Behalf Of Tim
> > Olson
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
> > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time
pilots on
> the
> > policy
> <Tim@myrv10.com
> > > <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
> > > > Recently my wife has been interested in learning
to
> fly.
> > > She would probably do her 40 hours and get her
certificate
> > > but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point
on.
> > > She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if
she
> > > wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
> > > > So I checked in to ask about insurance effects
of
> things
> > > like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
> > > Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just
in
> > > case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
> > > Adding my wife for either training, or just
post-training,
> > > so that she can be listed.
> > > > See the bottom of the email for final comments,
> but...
> > > > What I found was:
> > > > "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model
> pilot"
> > > > Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott
to be
> listed
> > > on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
> > > > ----
> > > > "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total
> hours,
> > > he would need 5 hours of dual."
> > > > So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can
add
> my
> > > dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300
hours
> > > total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
> > > 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
> > > > ----
> > > > And regarding my wife:
> > > "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
> > > unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
> > > is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
> > > minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
> > > PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
> > > Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
> > > > "I could try another company with her having
> 100 total
> > > hours but the premium will come in higher then your
> > > current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
> > > > -----
> > > > So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> > > importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
> > > RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
> > > rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
> > > insurance out there for someone with less hours,
> > > but I've basically come to the conclusion that
> > > there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
> > > to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
> > > 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> > > to use for instruction....who wants to actually
> > > get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
> > > pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
> > > you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
> > > years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
> > > help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
> > > pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
> > > a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
> > > a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
> > > topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
> > > at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
> > > dialog open.
> > > > > Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR
> job to FLY SAFE
> > > and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
> > > "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10
> community,
> > > but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
> > > builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
> > > cause claims, or especially death, in our model
> > > of aircraft.
> > > > --
> > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> > > > > > > > > >
> ==========
> > > "
> >
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> > > ==========
> > > MS -
> > > k">http://forums.matronics.com
> > > ==========
> > > e -
> > > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > > ==========
> > > > > > *
> > > > > *
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Composite Class for RV-10s May 9-10 2009 |
Ditto on this.
I attended the same class as John and Gary and can't recommend it highly
enough.
During the few days we went over procedures on all the composite parts and
any other topics the class had questions about. Having Dave's completed
plane right next to us in the hanger for reference was very helpful as well.
After returning home I comfortably finished most of the canopy trimming in
an afternoon.
Being able to hang out and compare notes with all the other builders was
also great as were the trips aloft in Dave's RV-10.
If you are unsure about the composite work and can make the class, it is
money very well spent.
Best Regards,
Patrick #40715
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:43 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Composite Class for RV-10s May 9-10 2009
I was in the same class as John and agree, it is worth every penny. I am
finishing up my windows right now and I am sure it has saved me weeks of
work and no telling how much re-do that I didn't have to re-do because I did
right the first time. I cut, and trimmed to fit my top in one day. Do it
wrong and you may get to buy another one.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
Engine, Fiberglass - SB
(N2GB registered)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230878#230878
Message 4
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| Subject: | Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Is it a catastrophe or just a crisis?. Perhaps we can petition our elected
representatives for some of the bailout money.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don McDonald
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
You're right on... when you start adding it up... wow..... Then they wonder
why the number of new pilots is down. With 10 hours of dual = $1,500, 10
hours of instruments = $1,500, transportation and such getting there $500,
40 hours for a test pilot = $4,000, Fuel for the 40= $1,500.... total
$9,000.... then $6,000 for insurance. $15,000 before getting in the
airplane. Not sure what I'll do.
Don
--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
I hear you Don, that's why I brought it up. It stinks to be
blind sided by such financial news. I know when I finished
my RV-10, I had maybe $1,000 to my name. I was actually
worried that I may not be able to earn fast enough to pay
for the fuel to fly it off in a reasonable amount of time.
Think about it, the flyoff alone will cost $1500-3000 in
fuel. And after not even thinking about it through the build,
you call your insurance guy up a month before you fly and
get a quote and find out that your insurance is going to
run you maybe a minimum of $2500 (roughly) or as much as
$6,000 (if you have low time), before you can even take off
for your first flight. Oh, and then you need that transition
training...save a $500-1000 or more for that, because you're
going to pay for a plane, an instructor, and the travel to
get you there if you need to fly with the common 2 Transition
trainers. It all adds up. That's why I figured I'd use my
wife's example as an illustration. It gives people a heads up
for what to plan for.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Don McDonald wrote:
> Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups and
comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last paragraph below,
you
wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> at least had a couple hundred hours of time". My objection is you
using the word "interesting". It's not at all interesting,
it's a total pain in the ass. These insurance companies have gone bonkers.
They wanted me to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific number of
takeoffs and landings.... that was fine, then, however, they wanted another
10
hours of dual instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but the kicker
was; if the 40 hours were not yet flown off the plane, I must hire a test
pilot
to fly them off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me for the wonderful cost
of
almost $6,000 per year. And this was the only company I found that would
even
provide a quote!!!!
> Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no time.
> Just kiddin' ya Tim.
> Don McDonald
> #40636
> BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
> the policy
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41 PM
>
>
> Eric,
>
> I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably
> easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP
> is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I just
> had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds
> like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK
> at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that
> they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
> real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane
> for training. And, they found one company that would cover a
> 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000
> additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).
>
> I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this
> in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is
going
> to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.
> That's probably the biggest killer.
>
> I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and
> then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause
> that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least
> 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.
> You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
>
> It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
> start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> at least had a couple hundred hours of time.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Eric Ekberg wrote:
> > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a
student
> pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k
hull); only
> requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a -10
would be
> any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a different
company.
> > > Eric
> > do not archive
> > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks
<robin1@mrmoisture.com
> <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
Marks"
> > <robin1@mrmoisture.com
<mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
> > > Tim,
> > I have a business partner that came from a flying
family (8
> > pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to
fly so I
> > purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like
$17K. We
> went
> > through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100%
before he
> > trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to
handing them
> > off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were
> extremely
> > comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of
their
> > certification went well. I then let a number of other friends
and
> > associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight
operations have
> been
> > really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this
purchase. I
> > believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect
to lose
> > too much when it's time to sell (current market
conditions
> excluded).
> > While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a
multi
> > person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly
in your
> own
> > plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees
or
> training
> > in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total
ownership
> costs
> > of a trainer.
> > > Robin
> > STILL in paint
> > Do Not Archive
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On
Behalf Of Tim
> Olson
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
the
> policy
<Tim@myrv10.com
> > <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
> > > Recently my wife has been interested in learning to
fly.
> > She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
> > but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
> > She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she
> > wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
> > > So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of
things
> > like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
> > Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in
> > case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
> > Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
> > so that she can be listed.
> > > See the bottom of the email for final comments,
but...
> > > What I found was:
> > > "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model
pilot"
> > > Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be
listed
> > on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
> > > ----
> > > "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total
hours,
> > he would need 5 hours of dual."
> > > So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add
my
> > dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
> > total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
> > 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
> > > ----
> > > And regarding my wife:
> > "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
> > unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
> > is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
> > minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
> > PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
> > Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
> > > "I could try another company with her having
100 total
> > hours but the premium will come in higher then your
> > current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
> > > -----
> > > So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> > importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
> > RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
> > rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
> > insurance out there for someone with less hours,
> > but I've basically come to the conclusion that
> > there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
> > to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
> > 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> > to use for instruction....who wants to actually
> > get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
> > pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
> > you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
> > years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
> > help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
> > pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
> > a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
> > a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
> > topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
> > at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
> > dialog open.
> > > > Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR
job to FLY SAFE
> > and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
> > "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10
community,
> > but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
> > builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
> > cause claims, or especially death, in our model
> > of aircraft.
> > > --
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> > > > > > > > >
==========
> > "
>
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> > ==========
> > MS -
> > k">http://forums.matronics.com
> > ==========
> > e -
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ==========
> > > > > *
> > > > *
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Like I said get your CFI for your wife to build time sitting next to you, that
is if you don't need the hours to reduce your insurance. I wouldn't suggest that
you give your wife private pilot instruction. Most couple's dynamics couldn't
handle that and the cost of divorce is WAY more than the cost of building
time. As for the HP endorsement, I always wondered why they had it until I
went to FCI in Pheonix for upset/spin training. At altitude my instructor trimmed
us for landing config in an Extra300 and then gave me the stick and asked
me to firewall the throttle. Amazing that we were upside-down within a one revolution
of the prop. HP endorsement is a hand me down from military training
where after private pilot and T-41 training (C172) the next step was a 300-450HP
P-force beast. They had to set the bar somewhere and it was at 200HP. I
did my RV-10 time already with Alex even though I'm 2 years from flying. I plan
on doing some more time right before I'm done building. I reluctantly agreed
to let a test pilot do first flight, but I still have time to wiggle outta
that promise, might cost me some jewelry though.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231008#231008
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Do the first flight if you have the experience. My wife wanted me to have
someone else fly first but try as I would I could not get another test
pilot insured unless I paid to send him to TX or OR for transition training.
My only advice would be to get a standing start takeoff with the training.
My one hour with Alex had him making the only standing start takeoff. I had
flown my Glastar into his airpark where winds were 40 degree crosswind at
15G27. So my first flight push of the power lever forward completely was an
eye opener. And yes I am giving my wife pinch hitter training. She
insisted.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doctornigel
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:29 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
Like I said get your CFI for your wife to build time sitting next to you,
that is if you don't need the hours to reduce your insurance. I wouldn't
suggest that you give your wife private pilot instruction. Most couple's
dynamics couldn't handle that and the cost of divorce is WAY more than the
cost of building time. As for the HP endorsement, I always wondered why
they had it until I went to FCI in Pheonix for upset/spin training. At
altitude my instructor trimmed us for landing config in an Extra300 and then
gave me the stick and asked me to firewall the throttle. Amazing that we
were upside-down within a one revolution of the prop. HP endorsement is a
hand me down from military training where after private pilot and T-41
training (C172) the next step was a 300-450HP P-force beast. They had to
set the bar somewhere and it was at 200HP. I did my RV-10 time already with
Alex even though I'm 2 years from flying. I plan on doing some more time
right before I'm done bui!
lding. I reluctantly agreed to let a test pilot do first flight, but I
still have time to wiggle outta that promise, might cost me some jewelry
though.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231008#231008
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
Thanks for the replies. I am going to contact Airflow Performance. Sure am enjoying
flying this airplane! :D
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231015#231015
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
I'm a very low time pilot so definitely fall in this category.
Is insurance somehow mandatory??
I understand liability issues. I also understand that a hangar lease may require
insurance.
Other than that, and avoiding philosophical discussion, if I'm willing to take
the risk as to physical damage to myself, the plane and potential liability exposure
to others for my actions,, is insurance mandatory?? Equally, I'm fully
aware of an obligation to advise any passenger of the fact that there's no direct
insurance coverage.
Thanks,
Tom H.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231022#231022
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Insurance companies are regulated and so are their investments, While
there is no question that they do invest in equities, they are limited
to a small portion of their reserves (assets) which must be invested in
more 'secure' instruments.
Deems
ricksked@embarqmail.com wrote:
>
> And another reason the "Insurance Company" is doing this...Capital..
> Lest we forget the current economic times...Insurance investments have in the
past been pretty stable...but insurance companies relay on investments to grow
capital and earn money...consider your small investment in the markets compared
to...and I hate to say it AIG...How has your year been? Mine sucked...but
not even close to the losses insurance companies and other financial based business
have suffered. So where do you think they will recover a portion of that
loss? Premiums on written policies...expect tighter adjusting practices as well...
>
> Rick Sked
> 40185
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
>
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 22:09:07
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
>
>
>
> Rule of thumb; If the pilot has significant flying time,IR and complex and
> HP endorsements insurance will be 2% or less per year. Low time pilots ( 300
> TT VFR) figure 3% , newly minted private pilots can figure 4%+. Consider the
> insurance company point of view. One, this airplane has very rapid
> acceleration on the ground. Secondly it is fast in the air and the aircraft
> has cruise speeds 50%-60% higher than typical trainer aircraft. This means
> that the VFR pilot can get into weather a lot faster and easier. Here in AZ,
> the weather is usually clear and 50 but the 10 will get the pilot to the
> state boundaries in an hour in any direction. The 5-6 hour range can easily
> take one into the LA basin, Reno, etc. If fact one of my first trips with
> the airplane I flew it to Reno expecting the usual visual approach during
> last summer. At 30 miles SE the ATIS was offering the ILS 16R with
> visibilities just above minimums at 1 and 1/4 miles. The ILS went fine
> including the controller vectoring the B737 behind me back and forth across
> the localizer to prevent him from running over me. My point is that the
> faster airplane can get a pilot to destination a lot faster and into
> potential danger sooner. Another consideration is the gee whiz electronics;
> it takes flight time to become familiar with all the new stuff offered. I
> know I have pushed the wrong button on occasion and tried to determine how
> to return to a previous setting. Just some reasons why an insurance company
> might be cautious about the insurance requirements.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:41 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
>
>
> I hear you Don, that's why I brought it up. It stinks to be blind sided by
> such financial news. I know when I finished my RV-10, I had maybe $1,000 to
> my name. I was actually worried that I may not be able to earn fast enough
> to pay for the fuel to fly it off in a reasonable amount of time.
> Think about it, the flyoff alone will cost $1500-3000 in fuel. And after
> not even thinking about it through the build, you call your insurance guy up
> a month before you fly and get a quote and find out that your insurance is
> going to run you maybe a minimum of $2500 (roughly) or as much as $6,000 (if
> you have low time), before you can even take off for your first flight. Oh,
> and then you need that transition training...save a $500-1000 or more for
> that, because you're going to pay for a plane, an instructor, and the travel
> to get you there if you need to fly with the common 2 Transition trainers.
> It all adds up. That's why I figured I'd use my wife's example as an
> illustration. It gives people a heads up for what to plan for.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Don McDonald wrote:
>
>> Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups and
>> comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last paragraph
>> below, you wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-time
>> pilots start shopping for insurance. So far most people have at least
>> had a couple hundred hours of time". My objection is you using the
>> word "interesting". It's not at all interesting, it's a total pain in
>> the ass. These insurance companies have gone bonkers. They wanted me
>> to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific number of takeoffs and
>> landings.... that was fine, then, however, they wanted another 10
>> hours of dual instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but the
>> kicker was; if the 40 hours were not yet flown off the plane, I must
>> hire a test pilot to fly them off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me
>> for the wonderful cost of almost $6,000 per year. And this was the
>> only company I found that would even provide a quote!!!!
>> Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no time.
>> Just kiddin' ya Tim.
>> Don McDonald
>> #40636
>> BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.
>>
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>>
>> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
>> the policy
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41 PM
>>
>>
>> Eric,
>>
>> I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably
>> easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP
>> is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I just
>> had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds
>> like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK
>> at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that
>> they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
>> real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane
>> for training. And, they found one company that would cover a
>> 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000
>> additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).
>>
>> I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this
>> in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going
>> to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.
>> That's probably the biggest killer.
>>
>> I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and
>> then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause
>> that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least
>> 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.
>> You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
>>
>> It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
>> start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
>> at least had a couple hundred hours of time.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Eric Ekberg wrote:
>> > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a student
>> pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k
>>
> hull); only
>
>> requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a -10
>>
> would be
>
>> any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a different
>>
> company.
>
>> >
>> > Eric
>> > do not archive
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com
>> <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > <robin1@mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
>> >
>> > Tim,
>> > I have a business partner that came from a flying family
>>
> (8
>
>> > pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to fly so
>>
> I
>
>> > purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K.
>>
> We
>
>> went
>> > through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before
>>
> he
>
>> > trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to
>>
> handing them
>
>> > off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were
>> extremely
>> > comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their
>> > certification went well. I then let a number of other friends
>>
> and
>
>> > associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations
>>
> have
>
>> been
>> > really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this
>>
> purchase. I
>
>> > believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to
>>
> lose
>
>> > too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions
>> excluded).
>> > While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a
>>
> multi
>
>> > person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in
>>
> your
>
>> own
>> > plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or
>> training
>> > in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total
>>
> ownership
>
>> costs
>> > of a trainer.
>> >
>> > Robin
>> > STILL in paint
>> > Do Not Archive
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Tim
>> Olson
>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
>> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> > Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
>>
> the
>
>> policy
>> >
>> > <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
>> >
>> > Recently my wife has been interested in learning to fly.
>> > She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
>> > but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
>> > She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she
>> > wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
>> >
>> > So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of things
>> > like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
>> > Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in
>> > case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
>> > Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
>> > so that she can be listed.
>> >
>> > See the bottom of the email for final comments, but...
>> >
>> > What I found was:
>> >
>> > "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model pilot"
>> >
>> > Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be listed
>> > on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
>> >
>> > ----
>> >
>> > "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total hours,
>> > he would need 5 hours of dual."
>> >
>> > So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add my
>> > dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
>> > total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
>> > 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
>> >
>> > ----
>> >
>> > And regarding my wife:
>> > "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
>> > unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
>> > is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
>> > minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
>> > PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
>> > Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
>> >
>> > "I could try another company with her having 100 total
>> > hours but the premium will come in higher then your
>> > current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
>> >
>> > -----
>> >
>> > So this is just put out there to illustrate the
>> > importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
>> > RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
>> > rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
>> > insurance out there for someone with less hours,
>> > but I've basically come to the conclusion that
>> > there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
>> > to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
>> > 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
>> > to use for instruction....who wants to actually
>> > get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
>> > pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
>> > you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
>> > years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
>> > help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
>> > pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
>> > a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
>> > a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
>> > topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
>> > at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
>> > dialog open.
>> >
>> >
>> > Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR job to FLY SAFE
>> > and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
>> > "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10 community,
>> > but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
>> > builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
>> > cause claims, or especially death, in our model
>> > of aircraft.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ==========
>> > "
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> > ==========
>> > MS -
>> > k">http://forums.matronics.com
>> > ==========
>> > e -
>> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> > ==========
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > *
>> >
>> >
>> > *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
I don't know of a mandatory insurance requirement for ground or flight
operations. If one is comfortable with the possibility of funding the
liability or hull losses (many of which are beyond one's control or
knowledge) out of one's own checkbook,then no insurance; no problem. I don't
think a verbal warning of no insurance is going to fly with any plaintiff's
lawyer if the offender has any assets left.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tomhanaway
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 6:16 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
I'm a very low time pilot so definitely fall in this category.
Is insurance somehow mandatory??
I understand liability issues. I also understand that a hangar lease may
require insurance.
Other than that, and avoiding philosophical discussion, if I'm willing to
take the risk as to physical damage to myself, the plane and potential
liability exposure to others for my actions,, is insurance mandatory??
Equally, I'm fully aware of an obligation to advise any passenger of the
fact that there's no direct insurance coverage.
Thanks,
Tom H.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231022#231022
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
tomhanaway wrote:
>
> I'm a very low time pilot so definitely fall in this category.
> Is insurance somehow mandatory??
>
No.
> I understand liability issues. I also understand that a hangar lease may require
insurance.
>
I just reduced my insurance by going from 'in motion' to 'not in motion'
..... which meets the requirements for my hangar lease.
> Other than that, and avoiding philosophical discussion, if I'm willing to take
the risk as to physical damage to myself, the plane and potential liability
exposure to others for my actions,, is insurance mandatory??
Again, no it isn't. None of my airplanes are insured for hull. My
history for my Pitts S-1 serves as my thoughts. When I built it, the
first flight was insured with hull equal to the value of the plane
because I didn't have any "Pitts" experience. The hull insurance was an
extra $1000. I dropped it after the first year, my reasoning being that
if I hadn't hurt it in a year (about 100 hours) then I wasn't liable
to. It took me 13 years to hurt it. So, in the big bank in the sky, I
had $12,000 to fix it .... which came to around $2500.
> Equally, I'm fully aware of an obligation to advise any passenger of the fact
that there's no direct insurance coverage.
>
That's something I should do too. I just never thought about it.
The bottom line is if you can stand the complete loss .... salvage
doesn't usually pay much .... or have the means to fix it, then you
should be comfortable not having insurance. Just make sure that your
assets are protected from a lawsuit.
We've all lost friends, and their friends, in airplane accidents .....
and you have to weigh the causes with an open mind .... and compare
those losses with all the successful flights we make every day. It's a
gamble, and the odds are you will live to be an old pilot if you survive
all your stupid mistakes. I've survived my share.
Best of luck to everyone ..... just be comfortable with your insurance
decision.
Linn
> Thanks,
> Tom H.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231022#231022
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
One other thing an insurance company will peruse is RV10 time and its
recency. A friend who also building an 10, flew my aircraft the other day
with me in the right seat doing CFI duty. He flies a Piper (235hp) and
noticed several differences. The acceleration of the 10 was very noticeably
better; steering with the castoring nose wheel is different than the rudder
interconnect on most certified aircraft. After his first landing he
indicated that he would have survived his first flight. After four landings
he was doing fine. He flies every week and is a 4000tt+ CFII.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 6:34 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
Insurance companies are regulated and so are their investments, While there
is no question that they do invest in equities, they are limited to a small
portion of their resrerves (assets) which must be invested in more 'secure'
instruments.
Deems
ricksked@embarqmail.com wrote:
>
> And another reason the "Insurance Company" is doing this...Capital..
> Lest we forget the current economic times...Insurance investments have in
the past been pretty stable...but insurance companies relay on investments
to grow capital and earn money...consider your small investment in the
markets compared to...and I hate to say it AIG...How has your year been?
Mine sucked...but not even close to the losses insurance companies and other
financial based business have suffered. So where do you think they will
recover a portion of that loss? Premiums on written policies...expect
tighter adjusting practices as well...
>
> Rick Sked
> 40185
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
>
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 22:09:07
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
> policy
>
>
>
> Rule of thumb; If the pilot has significant flying time,IR and complex
> and HP endorsements insurance will be 2% or less per year. Low time
> pilots ( 300 TT VFR) figure 3% , newly minted private pilots can
> figure 4%+. Consider the insurance company point of view. One, this
> airplane has very rapid acceleration on the ground. Secondly it is
> fast in the air and the aircraft has cruise speeds 50%-60% higher than
> typical trainer aircraft. This means that the VFR pilot can get into
> weather a lot faster and easier. Here in AZ, the weather is usually
> clear and 50 but the 10 will get the pilot to the state boundaries in
> an hour in any direction. The 5-6 hour range can easily take one into
> the LA basin, Reno, etc. If fact one of my first trips with the
> airplane I flew it to Reno expecting the usual visual approach during
> last summer. At 30 miles SE the ATIS was offering the ILS 16R with
> visibilities just above minimums at 1 and 1/4 miles. The ILS went fine
> including the controller vectoring the B737 behind me back and forth
> across the localizer to prevent him from running over me. My point is
> that the faster airplane can get a pilot to destination a lot faster
> and into potential danger sooner. Another consideration is the gee
> whiz electronics; it takes flight time to become familiar with all the
> new stuff offered. I know I have pushed the wrong button on occasion
> and tried to determine how to return to a previous setting. Just some
reasons why an insurance company might be cautious about the insurance
requirements.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:41 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
> policy
>
>
> I hear you Don, that's why I brought it up. It stinks to be blind
> sided by such financial news. I know when I finished my RV-10, I had
> maybe $1,000 to my name. I was actually worried that I may not be
> able to earn fast enough to pay for the fuel to fly it off in a reasonable
amount of time.
> Think about it, the flyoff alone will cost $1500-3000 in fuel. And
> after not even thinking about it through the build, you call your
> insurance guy up a month before you fly and get a quote and find out
> that your insurance is going to run you maybe a minimum of $2500
> (roughly) or as much as $6,000 (if you have low time), before you can
> even take off for your first flight. Oh, and then you need that
> transition training...save a $500-1000 or more for that, because
> you're going to pay for a plane, an instructor, and the travel to get you
there if you need to fly with the common 2 Transition trainers.
> It all adds up. That's why I figured I'd use my wife's example as an
> illustration. It gives people a heads up for what to plan for.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Don McDonald wrote:
>
>> Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups and
>> comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last paragraph
>> below, you wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some
>> low-time pilots start shopping for insurance. So far most people
>> have at least had a couple hundred hours of time". My objection is
>> you using the word "interesting". It's not at all interesting, it's
>> a total pain in the ass. These insurance companies have gone
>> bonkers. They wanted me to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a
>> specific number of takeoffs and landings.... that was fine, then,
>> however, they wanted another 10 hours of dual instruments.... that
>> wasn't toooo bad either, but the kicker was; if the 40 hours were
>> not yet flown off the plane, I must hire a test pilot to fly them
off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me
>> for the wonderful cost of almost $6,000 per year. And this was the
>> only company I found that would even provide a quote!!!!
>> Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no time.
>> Just kiddin' ya Tim.
>> Don McDonald
>> #40636
>> BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.
>>
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>>
>> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
>> the policy
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41 PM
>>
>>
>> Eric,
>>
>> I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably
>> easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP
>> is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I just
>> had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds
>> like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK
>> at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that
>> they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
>> real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane
>> for training. And, they found one company that would cover a
>> 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000
>> additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).
>>
>> I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this
>> in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going
>> to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.
>> That's probably the biggest killer.
>>
>> I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and
>> then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause
>> that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least
>> 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.
>> You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
>>
>> It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
>> start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
>> at least had a couple hundred hours of time.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Eric Ekberg wrote:
>> > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a
student
>> pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k
>>
> hull); only
>
>> requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a
>> -10
>>
> would be
>
>> any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a
>> different
>>
> company.
>
>> >
>> > Eric
>> > do not archive
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com
>> <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > <robin1@mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
>> >
>> > Tim,
>> > I have a business partner that came from a flying family
>>
> (8
>
>> > pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to fly so
>>
> I
>
>> > purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K.
>>
> We
>
>> went
>> > through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before
>>
> he
>
>> > trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to
>>
> handing them
>
>> > off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were
>> extremely
>> > comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their
>> > certification went well. I then let a number of other friends
>>
> and
>
>> > associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations
>>
> have
>
>> been
>> > really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this
>>
> purchase. I
>
>> > believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect
to
>>
> lose
>
>> > too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions
>> excluded).
>> > While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a
>>
> multi
>
>> > person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in
>>
> your
>
>> own
>> > plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or
>> training
>> > in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total
>>
> ownership
>
>> costs
>> > of a trainer.
>> >
>> > Robin
>> > STILL in paint
>> > Do Not Archive
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Tim
>> Olson
>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
>> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> > Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
>>
> the
>
>> policy
>> >
>> > <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
>> >
>> > Recently my wife has been interested in learning to fly.
>> > She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
>> > but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
>> > She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she
>> > wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
>> >
>> > So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of things
>> > like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
>> > Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in
>> > case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
>> > Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
>> > so that she can be listed.
>> >
>> > See the bottom of the email for final comments, but...
>> >
>> > What I found was:
>> >
>> > "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model pilot"
>> >
>> > Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be listed
>> > on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
>> >
>> > ----
>> >
>> > "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total hours,
>> > he would need 5 hours of dual."
>> >
>> > So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add my
>> > dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
>> > total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
>> > 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
>> >
>> > ----
>> >
>> > And regarding my wife:
>> > "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
>> > unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
>> > is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
>> > minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
>> > PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
>> > Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
>> >
>> > "I could try another company with her having 100 total
>> > hours but the premium will come in higher then your
>> > current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
>> >
>> > -----
>> >
>> > So this is just put out there to illustrate the
>> > importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
>> > RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
>> > rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
>> > insurance out there for someone with less hours,
>> > but I've basically come to the conclusion that
>> > there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
>> > to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
>> > 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
>> > to use for instruction....who wants to actually
>> > get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
>> > pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
>> > you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
>> > years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
>> > help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
>> > pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
>> > a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
>> > a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
>> > topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
>> > at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
>> > dialog open.
>> >
>> >
>> > Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR job to FLY SAFE
>> > and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
>> > "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10 community,
>> > but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
>> > builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
>> > cause claims, or especially death, in our model
>> > of aircraft.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ==========
>> > "
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> > ==========
>> > MS -
>> > k">http://forums.matronics.com
>> > ==========
>> > e -
>> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> > ==========
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > *
>> >
>> >
>> > *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Very common in Alaska for pilots to go without insurance, because few
have significant assets and insurance is so expensive. A more
conservative compromise was to go liability only. As was mentioned, I
went with liability and not in motion hull, just to protect against what
could happen while plane was tied down....fire, theft, wind damage,
other planes colliding into it.
In fact, when I moved to AZ, I was able to get full liability and in
flight hull for what the liability and not in motion cost me in Alaska.
I think the not in motion coverage is a great option for homebuilders,
because if you ding it, you can fix it yourself, and from the build
experience you are well prepared for that kind of work.
I don't know if any brokers offer it, but seems to me the ideal would be
a hull coverage with a very high deductible, so they wouldn't have to
pay for hangar rash, scraped wing tip, etc, but were there if you had
substantial damage.
linn wrote:
> -
> That's something I should do too. I just never thought about it.
>
> The bottom line is if you can stand the complete loss .... salvage
> doesn't usually pay much .... or have the means to fix it, then you
> should be comfortable not having insurance. Just make sure that your
> assets are protected from a lawsuit.
> We've all lost friends, and their friends, in airplane accidents .....
> and you have to weigh the causes with an open mind .... and compare
> those losses with all the successful flights we make every day. It's
> a gamble, and the odds are you will live to be an old pilot if you
> survive all your stupid mistakes. I've survived my share.
> Best of luck to everyone ..... just be comfortable with your insurance
> decision.
> Linn
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
David,
I too have a used IO540-C4B5. I pulled the entire
injection system off and sent it to "Airflow Performance" for
overhaul. All 6 injectors were replaced with their injectors.
They can balance the fuel flow by replacing an insert in the injector once
you are flying. I have not yet done this, but plan too. We are
just finishing up our Phase I.
You might give them a
call. Great to work with and they know the engine well.
Jim C
40192 - Phase I - Flying.
-->
RV10-List message posted by: "dmaib@mac.com"
<dmaib@mac.com>
Now that my engine is broken in and
running well, I am starting to run LOP
and have one injector (#4)
that is a bit rich compared to the other 5. It
does not peak until
the other cylinders are 10 to 30 degrees LOP. My
engine is a stock
IO-540 C4B5 that was overhauled locally in Minnesota. I
am interested
in finding someone who will be willing to work with me to
get the
injectors matched closely. I had GAMI injectors on my old Bonanza
and
they were great. But, I don't want to spend the money for GAMI's on
the Lycoming. This is standard Bendix fuel injection system. Any
thoughts
or ideas will be appreciated.
--------
David
Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online
here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230945#230945
- The RV10-List Email Forum -
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Just checked with Falcon Insurance (EAA) They say no company writes $10k
deductible for aircraft insurance.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the
policy
Very common in Alaska for pilots to go without insurance, because few have
significant assets and insurance is so expensive. A more conservative
compromise was to go liability only. As was mentioned, I went with liability
and not in motion hull, just to protect against what could happen while
plane was tied down....fire, theft, wind damage, other planes colliding into
it.
In fact, when I moved to AZ, I was able to get full liability and in flight
hull for what the liability and not in motion cost me in Alaska.
I think the not in motion coverage is a great option for homebuilders,
because if you ding it, you can fix it yourself, and from the build
experience you are well prepared for that kind of work.
I don't know if any brokers offer it, but seems to me the ideal would be a
hull coverage with a very high deductible, so they wouldn't have to pay for
hangar rash, scraped wing tip, etc, but were there if you had substantial
damage.
linn wrote:
> -
> That's something I should do too. I just never thought about it.
>
> The bottom line is if you can stand the complete loss .... salvage
> doesn't usually pay much .... or have the means to fix it, then you
> should be comfortable not having insurance. Just make sure that your
> assets are protected from a lawsuit.
> We've all lost friends, and their friends, in airplane accidents .....
> and you have to weigh the causes with an open mind .... and compare
> those losses with all the successful flights we make every day. It's
> a gamble, and the odds are you will live to be an old pilot if you
> survive all your stupid mistakes. I've survived my share.
> Best of luck to everyone ..... just be comfortable with your insurance
> decision.
> Linn
Message 16
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| Subject: | Emailing: IMG_1537 |
With the dicussion of LOP operation, I enclose a picture of the return from
OSH. I believe the altitude was 12000 and TAS was about 145 kts. This is the
backup EFIS being used as an engine monitor.
Message 17
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Nothing to see here people, move along. :)
Michael
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 11:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Wing Rib OOPS
Page 14-3 step 5. Tonight I was riveting the W-1025B-R Flap hinge rib and
W-1025A Flap hinge bracket to one of the W-1011-L inboard wing ribs and my
rivet gun slipped. Bottom line is that I "smilied" the flap hinge rib a li
ttle bit below one of the rivets. I'll attach pictures for details. Is th
ere enough strength in the rest of the rib/rivets to leave it alone or do I
need to fix it??? If I need to fix it could I cut a doubler to go over th
e damaged hole and to the rivets surrounding the damaged hole???
Also, while I'm at it, I'm only building the left wing so far as I go. Whe
n I go back to the right wing are all of the wing ribs the same as the inst
ructions say for the left wing or do I put a -R rib where a -L rib is shown
in the instructions? I know--clear as mud, right?. I remember some discu
ssion about this subject a few years ago and don't remember the answers.
Thanks
Bill
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib OOPS |
If only my mistakes were so minor. :D Think of the ribs as those that face inward
and those that face outward. Same for both wings.
--------
Andy Turner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231053#231053
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib OOPS |
Bill
In answer to your last question, unless there is a specific reason for a
design difference in the other wing, standard aircraft drawing convention is
"Left Hand Shown, Right Hand Opposite", or saying it another way, the wings
are mirror images of each other. Any differences should be shown as separate
detail drawings. A perfect example of that is the flap actuator only in
the right wing of the Cessna single engine fleet .
Dean Van Winkle
Retired Aeronautical Engineer
RV-9A Slow Builder
dvanwinkle@royell.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wing Rib OOPS
>
> Bill,
>
> That doesn't look too bad, I'd probably just leave it, unless you see
> that it really went deep into that rib. But it really doesn't look
> worth worrying about. If you did do a doubler, you'd want to do one
> that covered a bunch more area, so you'd probably end up removing
> at least a couple more rivets.
>
> For building those wings, you may find it goes quicker to do them
> together if you have space. Plus, you can compare parts and make
> sure that both sides look like their respective drawings. Just
> pay attention to how the ribs are placed in the drawings and you'll
> do fine there too.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Bill and Tami Britton wrote:
>> Page 14-3 step 5. Tonight I was riveting the W-1025B-R Flap hinge rib
>> and W-1025A Flap hinge bracket to one of the W-1011-L inboard wing ribs
>> and my rivet gun slipped. Bottom line is that I "smilied" the flap hinge
>> rib a little bit below one of the rivets. I'll attach pictures for
>> details. Is there enough strength in the rest of the rib/rivets to leave
>> it alone or do I need to fix it??? If I need to fix it could I cut a
>> doubler to go over the damaged hole and to the rivets surrounding the
>> damaged hole???
>> Also, while I'm at it, I'm only building the left wing so far as I go.
>> When I go back to the right wing are all of the wing ribs the same as the
>> instructions say for the left wing or do I put a -R rib where a -L rib is
>> shown in the instructions? I know--clear as mud, right?. I remember
>> some discussion about this subject a few years ago and don't remember the
>> answers.
>> Thanks
>> Bill
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
At what min/max should one make a change to tighten the spread? At what min
/max should one be satisfied that it is good enough without wringing out th
e last 2% that costs triple?
-
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying
--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Flow Matching
Hi David,
As Kelly said, you could swap injectors on your own engine
to see if you can get the high and low's closer together.
That's one option. Otherwise, you could buy a couple
of other injectors swap them around too. Aerosport has a
flow system to check and balance them. You may be able
to send your injectors to a place like that and see if they
can match them up for you.
Also, with the EFIS you have, you'll want to buy a copy of
EGView, by EGTrends. It's got a GAMI leaning module in it
so you can download your data on some nice slow leaning
runs, and it will actually tell you how far off your injectors
are, and what kind of flow increase/decrease you want.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
dmaib@mac.com wrote:
<dmaib@mac.com>
>
> Now that my engine is broken in and running well, I am starting to
> run LOP and have one injector (#4) that is a bit rich compared to the
> other 5. It does not peak until the other cylinders are 10 to 30
> degrees LOP. My engine is a stock IO-540 C4B5 that was overhauled
> locally in Minnesota. I am interested in finding someone who will be
> willing to work with me to get the injectors matched closely. I had
> GAMI injectors on my old Bonanza and they were great. But, I don't
> want to spend the money for GAMI's on the Lycoming. This is standard
> Bendix fuel injection system. Any thoughts or ideas will be
> appreciated.
>
> -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559
>
>
Message 21
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|
Kelly
I am one off of you, I did not get a chance to check my cert ;ast night will
try and remember today to check it out.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Started
Hmmm,
Well, I'm the mixed up one then.
I definitely am
40866
Don't know who is 865 then.
John Cumins wrote:
>
> Tim
>
> OOPS I am 40864 and Kelly is 40865.
>
>
> John G. Cumins
> President
>
> JC'S Interactive Systems
> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
> Fairfield Ca 94533
> 707-425-7100
> 707-425-7576 Fax
>
> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 1:21 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Started
>
>
> John, are you 40864 or 40865? You show both in your email.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> John Cumins wrote:
>
>> Sean
>>
>>
>>
>> Welcome to the RV-10 world. I am serial number 40865 June 2008 and am
>> just about to start the riveting of the Horz stab. I have enjoyed every
>> hour and the friendship that comes with building the rv-10. Also I would
>> recommend that you find an EAA chapter near you to join there great
>> people doing what we all love.
>>
>>
>>
>> Congrats and don't worry about mistakes we all make them. 1 word of the
>> wise is when you do your inventory make sure to organize everything
>> well. It will prevent you from reordering parts you can not find, then
>> when they show up you find the lost ones. Don't ask me how I know that
>> routine but I have a set of spare Hors rear spar center hinge brackets
>> if any one needs a set.
>>
>>
>>
>> Enjoy, I truly am.
>>
>>
>>
>> 40864 Priming Horv stab parts.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John G. Cumins
>>
>> President
>>
>>
>>
>> JC'S Interactive Systems
>>
>> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
>>
>> Fairfield Ca 94533
>>
>> 707-425-7100
>>
>> 707-425-7576 Fax
>>
>>
>>
>> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Seano
>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:30 PM
>> *To:* rv10 list
>> *Subject:* RV10-List: Started
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> My name is Sean Strasburg and I just started my RV-10. I wanted to
>> introduce myself and make sure I am doing this right. I received my
>> empennage on the 3rd and now I am getting ready to rivet the VS. I have
>> already learned a lot from reading this matronics list. Also, I wanted
>> to thank Scott Schmidt for helping me with the stupid questions starting
>> my kit and getting me a ride in his wonderful RV-10.
>>
>> Serial 40936
>>
>>
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
>
--
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
David,
Here's the do-it-yourself procedure...
http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Engine/engine.html#InjectorBalancing
Very worthwhile, I run 50-75 degrees LOP all the time and enjoy very
economical operation.
Randy Lervold
www.rv3works.com
www.rv-8.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <dmaib@mac.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 7:00 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Flow Matching
>
> Now that my engine is broken in and running well, I am starting to run LOP
> and have one injector (#4) that is a bit rich compared to the other 5. It
> does not peak until the other cylinders are 10 to 30 degrees LOP. My
> engine is a stock IO-540 C4B5 that was overhauled locally in Minnesota. I
> am interested in finding someone who will be willing to work with me to
> get the injectors matched closely. I had GAMI injectors on my old Bonanza
> and they were great. But, I don't want to spend the money for GAMI's on
> the Lycoming. This is standard Bendix fuel injection system. Any thoughts
> or ideas will be appreciated.
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230945#230945
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Don
I know a guy at the Nut Tree with thousands of hours and a ton of RV time.
I am sure he would be willing to help you in the flight test and possible
fly off. If you want his number I can send it to you. I am going to try
and make it up to Lincoln on Sat to check out your project.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don McDonald
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
You're right on... when you start adding it up... wow..... Then they wonder
why the number of new pilots is down. With 10 hours of dual = $1,500, 10
hours of instruments = $1,500, transportation and such getting there $500,
40 hours for a test pilot = $4,000, Fuel for the 40= $1,500.... total
$9,000.... then $6,000 for insurance. $15,000 before getting in the
airplane. Not sure what I'll do.
Don
--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
I hear you Don, that's why I brought it up. It stinks to be
blind sided by such financial news. I know when I finished
my RV-10, I had maybe $1,000 to my name. I was actually
worried that I may not be able to earn fast enough to pay
for the fuel to fly it off in a reasonable amount of time.
Think about it, the flyoff alone will cost $1500-3000 in
fuel. And after not even thinking about it through the build,
you call your insurance guy up a month before you fly and
get a quote and find out that your insurance is going to
run you maybe a minimum of $2500 (roughly) or as much as
$6,000 (if you have low time), before you can even take off
for your first flight. Oh, and then you need that transition
training...save a $500-1000 or more for that, because you're
going to pay for a plane, an instructor, and the travel to
get you there if you need to fly with the common 2 Transition
trainers. It all adds up. That's why I figured I'd use my
wife's example as an illustration. It gives people a heads up
for what to plan for.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Don McDonald wrote:
> Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups and
comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last paragraph below,
you
wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> at least had a couple hundred hours of time". My objection is you
using the word "interesting". It's not at all interesting,
it's a total pain in the ass. These insurance companies have gone bonkers.
They wanted me to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific number of
takeoffs and landings.... that was fine, then, however, they wanted another
10
hours of dual instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but the kicker
was; if the 40 hours were not yet flown off the plane, I must hire a test
pilot
to fly them off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me for the wonderful cost
of
almost $6,000 per year. And this was the only company I found that would
even
provide a quote!!!!
> Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no time.
> Just kiddin' ya Tim.
> Don McDonald
> #40636
> BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
> the policy
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41 PM
>
>
> Eric,
>
> I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably
> easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP
> is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I just
> had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds
> like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK
> at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that
> they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely
> real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane
> for training. And, they found one company that would cover a
> 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000
> additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).
>
> I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this
> in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is
going
> to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.
> That's probably the biggest killer.
>
> I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and
> then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause
> that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least
> 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.
> You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.
>
> It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots
> start shopping for insurance. So far most people have
> at least had a couple hundred hours of time.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Eric Ekberg wrote:
> > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a
student
> pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k
hull); only
> requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a -10
would be
> any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a different
company.
> > > Eric
> > do not archive
> > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks
<robin1@mrmoisture.com
> <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:
Marks"
> > <robin1@mrmoisture.com
<mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>
> > > Tim,
> > I have a business partner that came from a flying
family (8
> > pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 18) to
fly so I
> > purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like
$17K. We
> went
> > through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100%
before he
> > trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to
handing them
> > off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were
> extremely
> > comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of
their
> > certification went well. I then let a number of other friends
and
> > associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight
operations have
> been
> > really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this
purchase. I
> > believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect
to lose
> > too much when it's time to sell (current market
conditions
> excluded).
> > While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a
multi
> > person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly
in your
> own
> > plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees
or
> training
> > in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total
ownership
> costs
> > of a trainer.
> > > Robin
> > STILL in paint
> > Do Not Archive
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] On
Behalf Of Tim
> Olson
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on
the
> policy
<Tim@myrv10.com
> > <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
> > > Recently my wife has been interested in learning to
fly.
> > She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate
> > but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.
> > She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she
> > wants to. It opens the doors, anyway.
> > > So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of
things
> > like: Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.
> > Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in
> > case some day I would consider letting him fly it.
> > Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,
> > so that she can be listed.
> > > See the bottom of the email for final comments,
but...
> > > What I found was:
> > > "It should not cost to add a 200 make and model
pilot"
> > > Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be
listed
> > on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.
> > > ----
> > > "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total
hours,
> > he would need 5 hours of dual."
> > > So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add
my
> > dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours
> > total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,
> > 250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).
> > > ----
> > > And regarding my wife:
> > "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but
> > unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she
> > is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their
> > minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft. AIG is
> > PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike
> > Seager or Alex DeDominicis."
> > > "I could try another company with her having
100 total
> > hours but the premium will come in higher then your
> > current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) :)
> > > -----
> > > So this is just put out there to illustrate the
> > importance of piloting time prior to insuring your
> > RV-10. Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument
> > rating. Global wants 300. Yeah, you may find
> > insurance out there for someone with less hours,
> > but I've basically come to the conclusion that
> > there is no way that I can bother to add my wife
> > to the policy until she has at least 100 if not
> > 300 hours. For someone who's building the RV-10
> > to use for instruction....who wants to actually
> > get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their
> > pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think
> > you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3
> > years, and flying 100 hrs per year first. It will
> > help your rates. Or at least plan to build a
> > pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost
> > a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for
> > a few years. Insurance is going to be a tough
> > topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders
> > at least, so I figured it's good to keep the
> > dialog open.
> > > > Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR
job to FLY SAFE
> > and not have any claims. Remember that we may be
> > "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the RV-10
community,
> > but we're certainly not being good to our fellow
> > builders if we do stupid and reckless things and
> > cause claims, or especially death, in our model
> > of aircraft.
> > > --
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> > > > > > > > >
==========
> > "
>
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> > ==========
> > MS -
> > k">http://forums.matronics.com
> > ==========
> > e -
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ==========
> > > > > *
> > > > *
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib OOPS |
Thanks to everyone!!!
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wing Rib OOPS
>
> Bill,
>
> That doesn't look too bad, I'd probably just leave it, unless you see
> that it really went deep into that rib. But it really doesn't look
> worth worrying about. If you did do a doubler, you'd want to do one
> that covered a bunch more area, so you'd probably end up removing
> at least a couple more rivets.
>
> For building those wings, you may find it goes quicker to do them
> together if you have space. Plus, you can compare parts and make
> sure that both sides look like their respective drawings. Just
> pay attention to how the ribs are placed in the drawings and you'll
> do fine there too.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Bill and Tami Britton wrote:
>> Page 14-3 step 5. Tonight I was riveting the W-1025B-R Flap hinge rib
>> and W-1025A Flap hinge bracket to one of the W-1011-L inboard wing ribs
>> and my rivet gun slipped. Bottom line is that I "smilied" the flap
>> hinge rib a little bit below one of the rivets. I'll attach pictures
>> for details. Is there enough strength in the rest of the rib/rivets to
>> leave it alone or do I need to fix it??? If I need to fix it could I
>> cut a doubler to go over the damaged hole and to the rivets surrounding
>> the damaged hole???
>>
>> Also, while I'm at it, I'm only building the left wing so far as I go.
>> When I go back to the right wing are all of the wing ribs the same as
>> the instructions say for the left wing or do I put a -R rib where a -L
>> rib is shown in the instructions? I know--clear as mud, right?. I
>> remember some discussion about this subject a few years ago and don't
>> remember the answers.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Bill
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
08:57:00
Message 25
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| Subject: | Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
In my case it is not an effort to wring out more performance, just need them
close enough so that the engine will run smooth and I won't damage any
cylinders. Of course, running LOP is to get better gas milage..running 50
rich a peak at ~12,000 to 14,000 I was burning 12.0 to 12.2 at speeds in the
lower 160's.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Flow Matching
At what min/max should one make a change to tighten the spread? At what
min/max should one be satisfied that it is good enough without wringing out
the last 2% that costs triple?
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying
--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Flow Matching
Hi David,
As Kelly said, you could swap injectors on your own engine
to see if you can get the high and low's closer together.
That's one option. Otherwise, you could buy a couple
of other injectors swap them around too. Aerosport has a
flow system to check and balance them. You may be able
to send your injectors to a place like that and see if they
can match them up for you.
Also, with the EFIS you have, you'll want to buy a copy of
EGView, by EGTrends. It's got a GAMI leaning module in it
so you can download your data on some nice slow leaning
runs, and it will actually tell you how far off your injectors
are, and what kind of flow increase/decrease you want.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
dmaib@mac.com wrote:
<dmaib@mac.com>
>
> Now that my engine is broken in and running well, I am starting to
> run LOP and have one injector (#4) that is a bit rich compared to the
> other 5. It does not peak until the other cylinders are 10 to 30
> degrees LOP. My engine is a stock IO-540 C4B5 that was overhauled
> locally in Minnesota. I am interested in finding someone who will be
> willing to work with me to get the injectors matched closely. I had
> GAMI injectors on my old Bonanza and they were great. But, I don't
> want to spend the money for GAMI's on the Lycoming. This is standard
> Bendix fuel injection system. Any thoughts or ideas will be
> appreciated.
>
> -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559
>
>
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
Message 26
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| Subject: | Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Hope you can make it.... looking forward to meeting you.- Don
--- On Thu, 2/19/09, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
From: John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the polic
y
Don
-
I know a guy at the Nut Tree with thousands of hours and a ton of RV time.
- I am sure he would be willing to help you in the flight test and possib
le fly off.- If you want his number I can send it to you.- I am going t
o try and make it up to Lincoln on Sat to check out your project.
-
John G. Cumins
President
-
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
-
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-rv10-list-server@
matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Don McDonald
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the polic
y
-
You're right on... when you start adding it up... wow.....- Then they won
der why the number of new pilots is down.- With 10 hours of dual = $1,5
00, 10 hours of instruments = $1,500, transportation and such getting the
re $500, 40 hours for a test pilot = $4,000, Fuel for the 40= $1,500...
.- total $9,000.... then $6,000 for insurance.- $15,000 before getting
in the airplane.- Not sure what I'll do.
Don
--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the polic
y
Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> -I hear you Don, that's why I brought it up.
- It stinks to beblind sided by such financial news.- I know when I fin
ishedmy RV-10, I had maybe $1,000 to my name.- I was actuallyworried that
I may not be able to earn fast enough to payfor the fuel to fly it off in
a reasonable amount of time.Think about it, the flyoff alone will cost $150
0-3000 infuel.- And after not even thinking about it through the build,yo
u call your insurance guy up a month before you fly andget a quote and find
out that your insurance is going torun you maybe a minimum of $2500 (rough
ly) or as much as$6,000 (if you have low time), before you can even take of
ffor your first flight. Oh, and then you need that transitiontraining...sav
e a $500-1000 or more for that, because you'regoing to pay for a plane, an
instructor, and the travel toget you there if you need to fly with the
common 2 Transitiontrainers.- It all adds up.- That's why I figured I'
d use mywife's example as an illustration.- It gives people a heads upfor
what to plan for. -Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flyingdo not archive -
-Don McDonald wrote:> Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of you
r write ups andcomments.... that being said, if you look down at your last
paragraph below, youwrote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-
time pilotsstart shopping for insurance.- So far most people have> at lea
st had a couple hundred hours of time".- My objection is youusing the wor
d "interesting".- It's not at all interesting,it's a total pain in the as
s.- These insurance companies have gone bonkers. They wanted me to have 1
0 hours dual with CFI doing a specific number oftakeoffs and landings.... t
hat was fine, then, however, they wanted another 10hours of dual instrument
s.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but the kickerwas;- if the 40 hours w
ere
not yet flown off the plane, I must hire a test pilotto fly them off......
THEN,,,, they would insure me for the wonderful cost ofalmost $6,000 per y
ear.-- And this was the only company I found that would evenprovide a q
uote!!!!> Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no t
ime.> Just kiddin' ya Tim.> Don McDonald> #40636> BTW - my 10 is going to r
oll onto the scales on Sat.> > > --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@MyRV
10.com>/* wrote:> >---- From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>>---
- Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on>-
--- the policy>---- To:
rv10-list@matronics.com>---- Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1
0.com>> >---- Eric,> >---- I wouldn't think that the -10 wo
uld be harder to fly...probably>---- easier.- But I think the hig
her hull value combined with 260HP>---- is what just kills the RV-1
0 in the insurance market.- I just>---- had another couple emails
with the insurance agent, and it sounds>---- like there may just b
e one company that would at least LOOK>---- at covering my wife as
a student pilot...with no guarantee that>---- they would actually c
over her.-- No idea on rates but likely>---- real high...high e
nough that I may as well rent a plane>---- for training.- And, th
ey found one company that would cover a>---- 100 hour PVT pilot wit
h a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000>---- additional cost from
what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).>
>---- I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this>
---- in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there isgoing>
---- to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.
>---- That's probably the biggest killer.> >---- I'm planni
ng to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and>---- then see
if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause>---- that in or
der to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least>---- 100 hours), s
he would be required to have me as a co-pilot.>---- You'd think tha
t might give the company some warm fuzzies.> >---- It's really goin
g to be interesting as some low-time pilots>---- start shopping for
insurance.- So far most people have>---- at least had a couple h
undred hours of time.> >---- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying>-
--- do not archive> > >---- Eric Ekberg wrote:>---- >
I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's.- I insured it
as astudent>---- pilot with no problems (except that my premium wa
s $3k for $105khull); only>---- requirement was 10 hours dual befor
e solo.- I wouldn't think a -10would be>---- any more difficult (
but what do I know?).- I would try a differentcompany.>---- >-
--- > Eric>---- > do not archive>---- >---- >
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks<robin1@mrmoisture.com>--
-- <mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>> wrote:>---- >---- >
---- <robin1@mrmoisture.com<mailto:robin1@mrmoisture.com>>>--
-- >---- >---- Tim,>---- >-------
---- I have a business partner that came from a flyingfamily (8>-
--- >---- pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 1
8) tofly so I>---- >---- purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150
(hp) for something like$17K. We>---- went>---- >---
- through the thing top to bottom to
make sure it was 100%before he>---- >---- trained both his
kids to the best of his ability prior tohanding them>---- >--
-- off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were>---- ext
remely>---- >---- comfortable with the principles of flight
and the rest oftheir>---- >---- certification went well. I
then let a number of other friendsand>---- >---- associate
d train in the plane. Insurance and flightoperations have>---- been
>---- >---- really cheap and a lot of people have benefited
from thispurchase. I>---- >---- believe I bought the plane
well and normally would not expectto lose>---- >---- too m
uch when it's time to sell (current marketconditions>---- excluded)
.>---- >---- While this may not be a viable route for most
people maybe amulti>---- >---- person partnership on a trai
ner could be a viable way to flyin your>---- own>---- >-
--- plane and
build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental feesor>---- training
>---- >---- in too much plane whose insurance costs match t
he totalownership>---- costs>---- >---- of a traine
r.>---- >---- >---- Robin>---- >---
- STILL in paint>---- >---- Do Not Archive>---- >
---- >---- -----Original Message----->---- >--
-- From:
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>---- >---- <mailto:
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>---- >---- [mailto:
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>---- >---- <mailto:
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >] OnBehalf Of Tim>---- Olson
>---- >---- Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:55 AM>--
-- >---- To:
rv10-list@matronics.com<mailto:
rv10-list@matronics.com >>---- >---- Subject: RV10-List: I
nsuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots onthe>---- policy>---
Tim@myrv10.com>---- >---- <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>>--
-- >---- >---- Recently my wife has been interested in
learning tofly.>---- >---- She would probably do her 40 hou
rs and get her certificate>---- >---- but then may or may n
ot ever fly alone from that point on.>---- >---- She would
just love to do it, and be able to do it if she>---- >----
wants to.- It opens the doors, anyway.>---- >---- >--
-- So I checked in to ask about insurance effects ofthings>----
>---- like:- Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.>--
-- >---- Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just i
n>---- >---- case some day I would consider letting him fly
it.>---- >---- Adding my
wife for either training, or just post-training,>---- >- --
-so that she can be listed.>---- >---- >---- See
the bottom of the email for final comments,but...>---- >---
- >---- What I found was:>---- >---- >---
- "It should not cost to add a 200 make and modelpilot">---- >-
--- >---- Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to b
elisted>---- >---- on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me
a penny.>---- >---- >---- ---->---- >--
-- >---- "Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 totalhours,>
---- >---- he would need 5 hours of dual.">---- >
---- >---- So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can
addmy>---- >---- dad to the policy, but he needs to for sur
e have 300 hours>---- >---- total time, and needs 5 hours o
f dual. (or with AIG,>---- >---- 250 but the dual from Mike
or Alex).>---- >---- >---- ---->----
>---- >---- And regarding my wife:>---- >---
- "Your training plan for your wife sounds good but>---- >--
-- unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she>----
>---- is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their>---
- >---- minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft.- AIG is>
---- >---- PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with M
ike>---- >---- Seager or Alex DeDominicis.">---- >
---- >---- "I could try another company with her having100
total>---- >---- hours but the premium will come in higher
then your>---- >---- current premium with Global." (I say..
.no sh1t) :)>---- >---- >---- ----->---- >
---- >---- So this is just put out there to illustrate the>
---- >---- importance of piloting time prior to insuring yo
ur>---- >---- RV-10.- Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrumen
t>---- >---- rating.- Global wants
300.- Yeah, you may find>---- >---- insurance out there
for someone with less hours,>---- >---- but I've basically
come to the conclusion that>---- >---- there is no way that
I can bother to add my wife>---- >---- to the policy until
she has at least 100 if not>---- >---- 300 hours.- For s
omeone who's building the RV-10>---- >---- to use for instr
uction....who wants to actually>---- >---- get their pilot
cert in it, or who JUST got their>---- >---- pilot cert and
now wants a plane, I really think>---- >---- you should co
nsider buying a spam can for 2-3>---- >---- years, and flyi
ng 100 hrs per year first.- It will>---- >---- help your
rates.- Or at least plan to build a>---- >---- pretty tri
mmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost>---- >---- a fortune, an
d just don't insure the hull for>---- >---- a few years.-
Insurance is going to be a
tough>---- >---- topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of yo
u builders>---- >---- at least, so I figured it's good to k
eep the>---- >---- dialog open.>---- >----
>---- >---- Now, for those of us flying, it's OURjob to FLY
SAFE>---- >---- and not have any claims.- Remember that
we may be>---- >---- "nice guys" (or maybe not...:)) to the
RV-10community,>---- >---- but we're certainly not being g
ood to our fellow>---- >---- builders if we do stupid and r
eckless things and>---- >---- cause claims, or especially d
eath, in our model>---- >---- of aircraft.>---- >
---- >---- -->---- >---- Tim Olson - RV-10
N104CD - Flying>---- >---- >---- >---- >-
--- >---- >---- >---- >-- -====
=======>---- >---- ">--- target="_bla
nk">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>---- >----
===========>---- >---
-MS ->---- >---- k">http://forums.matronics.com>--
-- >---- ===========>---- >--
-- e ->---- >------------- -Matt Dral
le, List Admin.>---- >---- t="_blank">http://www.matronic
s.com/contribution>---- >---- =========
==>---- >---- >---- >---- > *>---
- >---- >---- > *> > > > > > > *> > > * - - - -
-
=0A=0A=0A
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
Thanks Randy, Jim, and all the rest who have responded. Sounds like a
good excuse for a trip to Spartanburg for one of Airflow's private
nozzle tuning sessions is going to be in our future!
Any excuse for a cross country at this point. ^_^
David Maib
40559
On Feb 19, 2009, at 11:44 AM, Randy Lervold wrote:
David,
Here's the do-it-yourself procedure...
http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Engine/engine.html#InjectorBalancing
Very worthwhile, I run 50-75 degrees LOP all the time and enjoy very
economical operation.
Randy Lervold
www.rv3works.com
www.rv-8.com
----- Original Message ----- From: <dmaib@mac.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 7:00 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Flow Matching
>
> Now that my engine is broken in and running well, I am starting to
> run LOP and have one injector (#4) that is a bit rich compared to
> the other 5. It does not peak until the other cylinders are 10 to
> 30 degrees LOP. My engine is a stock IO-540 C4B5 that was
> overhauled locally in Minnesota. I am interested in finding someone
> who will be willing to work with me to get the injectors matched
> closely. I had GAMI injectors on my old Bonanza and they were
> great. But, I don't want to spend the money for GAMI's on the
> Lycoming. This is standard Bendix fuel injection system. Any
> thoughts or ideas will be appreciated.
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230945#230945
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
Will they help you with both Bendix and Airflow Performance
injection systems to balance the nozzles? If so, that's
mighty cool of them. Good road trip.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
David Maib wrote:
>
> Thanks Randy, Jim, and all the rest who have responded. Sounds like a
> good excuse for a trip to Spartanburg for one of Airflow's private
> nozzle tuning sessions is going to be in our future!
>
> Any excuse for a cross country at this point. ^_^
>
> David Maib
> 40559
>
>
> On Feb 19, 2009, at 11:44 AM, Randy Lervold wrote:
>
>
> David,
>
> Here's the do-it-yourself procedure...
> http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Engine/engine.html#InjectorBalancing
>
> Very worthwhile, I run 50-75 degrees LOP all the time and enjoy very
> economical operation.
>
> Randy Lervold
> www.rv3works.com
> www.rv-8.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <dmaib@mac.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 7:00 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Flow Matching
>
>
>>
>> Now that my engine is broken in and running well, I am starting to run
>> LOP and have one injector (#4) that is a bit rich compared to the
>> other 5. It does not peak until the other cylinders are 10 to 30
>> degrees LOP. My engine is a stock IO-540 C4B5 that was overhauled
>> locally in Minnesota. I am interested in finding someone who will be
>> willing to work with me to get the injectors matched closely. I had
>> GAMI injectors on my old Bonanza and they were great. But, I don't
>> want to spend the money for GAMI's on the Lycoming. This is standard
>> Bendix fuel injection system. Any thoughts or ideas will be appreciated.
>>
>> --------
>> David Maib
>> RV-10 #40559
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230945#230945
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: AirCrafters Overhead Consoles--Price Reduced |
I had decided not to do the overhead due to cost, weight and hassle, but ordered
one from Dave anyway. It is really nice. An easy way to hide a GPS antenna connector
and trim that area.
--------
Jim McLaughlin
40154
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231092#231092
Message 30
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| Subject: | Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
Dave:
Don also puts on a weekend seminar about fuel injection. I have not
been but I understand it's a good program and worth the trip. Like you
said, any excuse . . . .
Rhonda
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Maib
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Flow Matching
Thanks Randy, Jim, and all the rest who have responded. Sounds like a
good excuse for a trip to Spartanburg for one of Airflow's private
nozzle tuning sessions is going to be in our future!
Any excuse for a cross country at this point. ^_^
David Maib
40559
On Feb 19, 2009, at 11:44 AM, Randy Lervold wrote:
David,
Here's the do-it-yourself procedure...
http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Engine/engine.html#InjectorBalancing
Very worthwhile, I run 50-75 degrees LOP all the time and enjoy very
economical operation.
Randy Lervold
www.rv3works.com
www.rv-8.com
----- Original Message ----- From: <dmaib@mac.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 7:00 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Flow Matching
>
> Now that my engine is broken in and running well, I am starting to
> run LOP and have one injector (#4) that is a bit rich compared to
> the other 5. It does not peak until the other cylinders are 10 to
> 30 degrees LOP. My engine is a stock IO-540 C4B5 that was
> overhauled locally in Minnesota. I am interested in finding someone
> who will be willing to work with me to get the injectors matched
> closely. I had GAMI injectors on my old Bonanza and they were
> great. But, I don't want to spend the money for GAMI's on the
> Lycoming. This is standard Bendix fuel injection system. Any
> thoughts or ideas will be appreciated.
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230945#230945
>
>
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
"One other thing; be sure and get your high performance endorsement along the way.
I had planned to offer RV10 transition training in the Phoenix area but after
submitting the plan to the FSDO, the subject of the high performance endorsement
surfaced. I was told that I could not sign a HP endorsement as a part of
the transition because that could be accomplished in certified aircraft (even
though a person will not be considered proficient in an RV10 without the instruction
for it.). Upon hearing that I decided that I don't need to do this and
canned the paperwork "
IMHO this is the FAA's typical over-reaction to a few cheaters. Just as they're
re-considering the whole 51% rule because there are a few professional builders
(rather than attacking that specific problem head-on), the FAA is afraid someone
will offer Flight Reviews in their -10 with no real intention of 'transition
training'. It's all a question of the integrity of CFI's, and the FAA is
saying that they don't trust anyone. It is of course absurd to think that any
decent transition training would not meet the requirements of a Flight Review,
a High Performance endorsement, and an IPC (for ifr rated pilots).
High Performance endorsement. As a CFI, I'd have to say that this is mostly ground
instruction in the use of the MP gauge and prop control. And maybe, but not
necessarily, a step up for the pilot in terms of speed and weight of the aircraft.
If the pilot already has experience with a constant speed prop (e.g., 172RG,
201 ) because he obtained a complex endorsement first, then I agree that
the High Performance one is redundant. Recall, there was a time when only one
endorsement sufficed for both types of aircraft; I have no idea why the FAA changed
the rules on this.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231100#231100
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
GAMI normally aims to get the cylinders within 0.5 gph between first and
last to peak, with 0.3 gph or less being very good.
Bill DeRouchey wrote:
> At what min/max should one make a change to tighten the spread? At
> what min/max should one be satisfied that it is good enough without
> wringing out the last 2% that costs triple?
>
> Bill DeRouchey
> N939SB, flying
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@myrv10.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Flow Matching
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 8:44 PM
>
>
> Hi David,
>
> As Kelly said, you could swap injectors on your own engine
> to see if you can get the high and low's closer together.
> That's one option. Otherwise, you could buy a couple
> of other injectors swap them around too. Aerosport has a
> flow system to check and balance them. You may be able
> to send your injectors to a place like that and see if they
> can match them up for you.
>
> Also, with the EFIS you have, you'll want to buy a copy of
> EGView, by EGTrends. It's got a GAMI leaning module in it
> so you can download your data on some nice slow leaning
> runs, and it will actually tell you how far off your injectors
> are, and what kind of flow increase/decrease you want.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
> dmaib@mac.com wrote:
> <dmaib@mac.com>
> >
> > Now that my engine is broken in and running well, I am starting to
> > run LOP and have one injector (#4) that is a bit rich compared to the
> > other 5. It does not peak until the other cylinders are 10 to 30
> > degrees LOP. My engine is a stock IO-540 C4B5 that was overhauled
> > locally in Minnesota. I am interested in finding someone who will be
> > willing to work with me to get the injectors matched closely. I had
> > GAMI injectors on my old Bonanza and they were great. But, I don't
> > want to spend the money for GAMI's on the Lycoming. This is standard
> > Bendix fuel injection system. Any thoughts or ideas will be
> > appreciated.
> >
> > -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
If you are high enough that your engine can't produce above 65% power,
you can run at peak or perhaps 10 LOP all day long and not hurt
anything. I'd guess that at 12K you are already at or below 65%
Rene Felker wrote:
>
> In my case it is not an effort to wring out more performance, just
> need them close enough so that the engine will run smooth and I wont
> damage any cylinders. Of course, running LOP is to get better gas
> milagerunning 50 rich a peak at ~12,000 to 14,000 I was burning 12.0
> to 12.2 at speeds in the lower 160s.
>
> Rene' Felker
>
> RV-10 N423CF Flying
>
> 801-721-6080
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill
> DeRouchey
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 19, 2009 9:29 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Flow Matching
>
> At what min/max should one make a change to tighten the spread? At
> what min/max should one be satisfied that it is good enough without
> wringing out the last 2% that costs triple?
>
> Bill DeRouchey
>
> N939SB, flying
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@myrv10.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Flow Matching
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 8:44 PM
>
>
>
>
> Hi David,
>
>
>
> As Kelly said, you could swap injectors on your own engine
>
> to see if you can get the high and low's closer together.
>
> That's one option. Otherwise, you could buy a couple
>
> of other injectors swap them around too. Aerosport has a
>
> flow system to check and balance them. You may be able
>
> to send your injectors to a place like that and see if they
>
> can match them up for you.
>
>
>
> Also, with the EFIS you have, you'll want to buy a copy of
>
> EGView, by EGTrends. It's got a GAMI leaning module in it
>
> so you can download your data on some nice slow leaning
>
> runs, and it will actually tell you how far off your injectors
>
> are, and what kind of flow increase/decrease you want.
>
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> dmaib@mac.com wrote:
>
>
> <dmaib@mac.com>
>
> >
>
> > Now that my engine is broken in and running well, I am starting to
>
> > run LOP and have one injector (#4) that is a bit rich compared to the
>
> > other 5. It does not peak until the other cylinders are 10 to 30
>
> > degrees LOP. My engine is a stock IO-540 C4B5 that was overhauled
>
> > locally in Minnesota. I am interested in finding someone who will be
>
> > willing to work with me to get the injectors matched closely. I had
>
> > GAMI injectors on my old Bonanza and they were great. But, I don't
>
> > want to spend the money for GAMI's on the Lycoming. This is standard
>
> > Bendix fuel injection system. Any thoughts or ideas will be
>
> > appreciated.
>
> >
>
> > -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <3D>*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com <3D>*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution <3D>*
> **
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
--
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
I think I might have disremembered those numbers. I think the real guide
is at 0.5gph or greater between 1st and last to peak, GAMI or Airflow
can improve your performance, and probably get you to 0.3 or better, 0.2
or better is very good.
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> GAMI normally aims to get the cylinders within 0.5 gph between first
> and last to peak, with 0.3 gph or less being very good.
>
> Bill DeRouchey wrote:
>> At what min/max should one make a change to tighten the spread? At
>> what min/max should one be satisfied that it is good enough without
>> wringing out the last 2% that costs triple?
>>
>> Bill DeRouchey
>> N939SB, flying
>>
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim@myrv10.com>/* wrote:
>>
>> From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Flow Matching
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 8:44 PM
>>
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> As Kelly said, you could swap injectors on your own engine
>> to see if you can get the high and low's closer together.
>> That's one option. Otherwise, you could buy a couple
>> of other injectors swap them around too. Aerosport has a
>> flow system to check and balance them. You may be able
>> to send your injectors to a place like that and see if they
>> can match them up for you.
>>
>> Also, with the EFIS you have, you'll want to buy a copy of
>> EGView, by EGTrends. It's got a GAMI leaning module in it
>> so you can download your data on some nice slow leaning
>> runs, and it will actually tell you how far off your injectors
>> are, and what kind of flow increase/decrease you want.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>
>>
>>
>> dmaib@mac.com wrote:
>> <dmaib@mac.com>
>> > > Now that my engine is broken in and running well, I am
>> starting to
>> > run LOP and have one injector (#4) that is a bit rich compared
>> to the
>> > other 5. It does not peak until the other cylinders are 10 to 30
>> > degrees LOP. My engine is a stock IO-540 C4B5 that was overhauled
>> > locally in Minnesota. I am interested in finding someone who
>> will be
>> > willing to work with me to get the injectors matched closely. I
>> had
>> > GAMI injectors on my old Bonanza and they were great. But, I don't
>> > want to spend the money for GAMI's on the Lycoming. This is
>> standard
>> > Bendix fuel injection system. Any thoughts or ideas will be
>> > appreciated.
>> > > -------- David Maib RV-10 #40559
>> > >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
--
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Tim,
As a cfi I'd say you're correct: for many couples (not necessarily all) it's probably
best for a new pilot to get instruction from someone other than his/her
spouse. This summer I instructed a college student whose father was a cfi. They
realized that the dynamic between them was not the best for a teacher-student
relationship.
As to this:
"One other option, get your CFI and have your wife log time with you
while in your RV-10. A cheap way to build total time to reduce
insurance costs."
You may well find that you're caught in a Catch-22. Most insurance policies forbid
the use of the aircraft for instruction, except instruction for the named
insured. So to do this (and maintain insurance coverage), you'll have to name
your wife on the policy. And that will cost more (as will telling them you're
going to use the plane for instruction). I cannot imagine what an insurance company
will charge to allow a student to fly solo in a -10, but it won't be cheap.
Too much speed and power.
There is another quasi-legal option for building time if your wife gets her license
at the local FBO. If your policy says that only you will act as "pilot in
command", then there is nothing wrong with allowing your wife to manipulate the
controls. And as a private pilot and the 'sole manipulator of the controls'
she can log the time (of course, you are not supposed to log this time, in this
case). At the same time you would be PIC (presumably, you'd take over if things
went wrong, or at least make the decisions. And you'd be legally responsible
for the safe and legal operation of the aircraft). Now of course a few years
down the road, when you tell the insurance company that your wife now has 400
hours, they might ask where she got them, and not like the answer! Probably
best to be up-front with them. I don't think they should have any real problem
with her flying as long as you are PIC.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231104#231104
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
Yes,
Based on their recommendation, I had them overhaul my
Bendix Servo (And complied with an AD), replace all the injectors with new
Airflow Performance units, replace the flow divider with theirs and got
all new fuel lines from the flow divider to the injectors. I have
the excel spread sheet and instructions on how to fill it in to get the
"balance" data. Cost to tweak the injectors is very small
($20 if I remember right). They will do it at their airport or ship
you the parts after they have reviewed the spreadsheet data.
I
have a very nice running engine at this point and have been very happy
with their service and advice.
Jim Combs
N312F - Phase I
(34 hours)
<Tim@myrv10.com>
Will they help you with both Bendix and
Airflow Performance
injection systems to balance the nozzles? If so,
that's
mighty cool of them. Good road trip.
Tim Olson -
RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
David Maib
wrote:
<dmaib@mac.com>
>
> Thanks Randy, Jim, and all the
rest who have responded. Sounds like a
> good excuse for a trip to
Spartanburg for one of Airflow's private
> nozzle tuning sessions
is going to be in our future!
>
> Any excuse for a cross
country at this point. ^_^
>
> David Maib
>
40559
>
>
> On Feb 19, 2009, at 11:44 AM, Randy
Lervold wrote:
>
"Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
>
>
David,
>
> Here's the do-it-yourself procedure...
>
http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Engine/engine.html#InjectorBalancing
>
> Very worthwhile, I run 50-75 degrees LOP all the time and
enjoy very
> economical operation.
>
> Randy
Lervold
> www.rv3works.com
> www.rv-8.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
From:
<dmaib@mac.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 7:00 PM
> Subject:
RV10-List: Fuel Injector Flow Matching
>
>
>>
<dmaib@mac.com>
>>
>> Now that my engine is
broken in and running well, I am starting to run
>> LOP and
have one injector (#4) that is a bit rich compared to the
>>
other 5. It does not peak until the other cylinders are 10 to 30
>> degrees LOP. My engine is a stock IO-540 C4B5 that was
overhauled
>> locally in Minnesota. I am interested in finding
someone who will be
>> willing to work with me to get the
injectors matched closely. I had
>> GAMI injectors on my old
Bonanza and they were great. But, I don't
>> want to spend the
money for GAMI's on the Lycoming. This is standard
>> Bendix
fuel injection system. Any thoughts or ideas will be
>>
appreciated.
>>
>> --------
>> David
Maib
>> RV-10 #40559
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230945#230945
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Message 37
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To add a little more to the nose wheel discussion: I asked Rob at Grove
for his opinion of the various "fixes" available.
In his opinion the problem on the 10 and the other models in his opinion
stems from the fact that the bearing seal is rubber rather than
felt. This creates, again, in his opinion excessive wheel spin up drag
which can lead to a for and aft shimmy condition. He believes the 10
gear assy
is a better designed gear than the others with the solidly mounted gear
leg. He said while the spinning spacer issue can be stopped by any
method of securing the spacer, screw whatever, the other deficiency in
the stock design he feels is the fact that the axle bolt is unsupported
and subjected
to bending loads rather than the bolt being supported by a collar or
spacer and thus putting the bolt under a shear load only.
I did not have any of the issues with the stock parts in the first
hundred hours, but will change to the Grove wheel and axle assy anyway.
Dick Sipp
N110DV
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Bob, I know exactly what you're saying. It's a really tricky
argument. That's why I figure if she indeed gets her
certificate, I'll have them add her as a named pilot with the
exception that I'm a co-pilot. That may make it work for her.
The only problem is that I wouldn't be racking up any hours
for myself. But, I've got plenty enough that no additional
will save me any insurance dollars anymore. If she only
solos, and that's as far as she takes it, then I'd have to
be a CFI to even be able to call it "Dual" time. But, you're
right, it's weird in that it isn't really like you're using
the plane for commercial "flight instruction", and you may
not even be "instructing" at the time, but for all practical
purposes, they can still argue that you're doing instruction,
so it would be best to get the boundaries all figured out
in writing so that no insurance is jeopardized.
In the end, her having a certificate just really won't
affect our flying...and it won't help our rates, so it isn't
a big deal to me if she gets it. But, it would be nice if
SHE could feel the accomplishment at least.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Bob Turner wrote:
> <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>
>
> Tim,
>
> As a cfi I'd say you're correct: for many couples (not necessarily
> all) it's probably best for a new pilot to get instruction from
> someone other than his/her spouse. This summer I instructed a college
> student whose father was a cfi. They realized that the dynamic
> between them was not the best for a teacher-student relationship.
>
> As to this:
>
> "One other option, get your CFI and have your wife log time with you
> while in your RV-10. A cheap way to build total time to reduce
> insurance costs."
>
> You may well find that you're caught in a Catch-22. Most insurance
> policies forbid the use of the aircraft for instruction, except
> instruction for the named insured. So to do this (and maintain
> insurance coverage), you'll have to name your wife on the policy. And
> that will cost more (as will telling them you're going to use the
> plane for instruction). I cannot imagine what an insurance company
> will charge to allow a student to fly solo in a -10, but it won't be
> cheap. Too much speed and power.
>
> There is another quasi-legal option for building time if your wife
> gets her license at the local FBO. If your policy says that only you
> will act as "pilot in command", then there is nothing wrong with
> allowing your wife to manipulate the controls. And as a private pilot
> and the 'sole manipulator of the controls' she can log the time (of
> course, you are not supposed to log this time, in this case). At the
> same time you would be PIC (presumably, you'd take over if things
> went wrong, or at least make the decisions. And you'd be legally
> responsible for the safe and legal operation of the aircraft). Now of
> course a few years down the road, when you tell the insurance company
> that your wife now has 400 hours, they might ask where she got them,
> and not like the answer! Probably best to be up-front with them. I
> don't think they should have any real problem with her flying as long
> as you are PIC.
>
> -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=231104#231104
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
They help with both. Twice a year they host a seminar for 4 to 8 lucky
soles. The dates are March 6, 7 and 8 for 2009 and again in November.
I have signed for two slots in November after completing a Conditional
on an RV which had an adulterated Flow Divider. Diaphram was
overtorqued and the secret safety wire had been replaced. Rapid turn
around, excellent service and a great excuse to take my wife to see the
Smithsonian and a drive down to the Carolina coast. Colleen even
suggest her favorite spa while I play so my wife does not get restless.
Colleen and Don are a pleasure to deal with. They encourage you to bring
your fuel injected aircraft to use in training. Tuning the injectors is
a big plus regardless of wading into the clear value of LOP operations.
John Cox
old A&P need state of the art training too!
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Tim Olson
Sent: Thu 2/19/2009 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Flow Matching
Will they help you with both Bendix and Airflow Performance
injection systems to balance the nozzles? If so, that's
mighty cool of them. Good road trip.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
David Maib wrote:
>
> Thanks Randy, Jim, and all the rest who have responded. Sounds like a
> good excuse for a trip to Spartanburg for one of Airflow's private
> nozzle tuning sessions is going to be in our future!
>
> Any excuse for a cross country at this point. ^_^
>
> David Maib
> 40559
>
>
> On Feb 19, 2009, at 11:44 AM, Randy Lervold wrote:
>
>
> David,
>
> Here's the do-it-yourself procedure...
> http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Engine/engine.html#InjectorBalancing
>
> Very worthwhile, I run 50-75 degrees LOP all the time and enjoy very
> economical operation.
>
> Randy Lervold
> www.rv3works.com
> www.rv-8.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <dmaib@mac.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 7:00 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Flow Matching
>
>
>>
>> Now that my engine is broken in and running well, I am starting to
run
>> LOP and have one injector (#4) that is a bit rich compared to the
>> other 5. It does not peak until the other cylinders are 10 to 30
>> degrees LOP. My engine is a stock IO-540 C4B5 that was overhauled
>> locally in Minnesota. I am interested in finding someone who will be
>> willing to work with me to get the injectors matched closely. I had
>> GAMI injectors on my old Bonanza and they were great. But, I don't
>> want to spend the money for GAMI's on the Lycoming. This is standard
>> Bendix fuel injection system. Any thoughts or ideas will be
appreciated.
>>
>> --------
>> David Maib
>> RV-10 #40559
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230945#230945
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injector Flow Matching |
I spoke with Don at Airflow Performance, and he will help with Bendix
or Airflow. He is sending me a data collection sheet. I will take
initial readings and then when I go to Spartanburg, we will adjust
the nozzles and fly the airplane. Don says it typically takes two or
three 20 minute flights to get them balanced.
David Maib
40559
On Feb 19, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
Will they help you with both Bendix and Airflow Performance
injection systems to balance the nozzles? If so, that's
mighty cool of them. Good road trip.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
David Maib wrote:
> Thanks Randy, Jim, and all the rest who have responded. Sounds like
> a good excuse for a trip to Spartanburg for one of Airflow's
> private nozzle tuning sessions is going to be in our future!
> Any excuse for a cross country at this point. ^_^
> David Maib
> 40559
> On Feb 19, 2009, at 11:44 AM, Randy Lervold wrote:
> David,
> Here's the do-it-yourself procedure...
> http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Engine/engine.html#InjectorBalancing
> Very worthwhile, I run 50-75 degrees LOP all the time and enjoy
> very economical operation.
> Randy Lervold
> www.rv3works.com
> www.rv-8.com
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <dmaib@mac.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 7:00 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Flow Matching
>>
>> Now that my engine is broken in and running well, I am starting to
>> run LOP and have one injector (#4) that is a bit rich compared to
>> the other 5. It does not peak until the other cylinders are 10 to
>> 30 degrees LOP. My engine is a stock IO-540 C4B5 that was
>> overhauled locally in Minnesota. I am interested in finding
>> someone who will be willing to work with me to get the injectors
>> matched closely. I had GAMI injectors on my old Bonanza and they
>> were great. But, I don't want to spend the money for GAMI's on the
>> Lycoming. This is standard Bendix fuel injection system. Any
>> thoughts or ideas will be appreciated.
>>
>> --------
>> David Maib
>> RV-10 #40559
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230945#230945
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
Excellent discussion regarding insurance, flying spouses, etc.
Thanks.
Kevin
40494
tail/empennage
do not archive
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy |
A few years back Rick and I had set up a self insurance group to solve these
challenges, Thousands of dollars later we scrapped the idea because the
community of RV 10s wouldn't support it for about $2500 a year as a cost
with an estimated 10% a year rebate. Oh well, we tried.
Bob K
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KiloPapa
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 8:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy
Excellent discussion regarding insurance, flying spouses, etc.
Thanks.
Kevin
40494
tail/empennage
do not archive
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