Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:43 AM - Re: Countersinking Fiberglas (Bob Leffler)
2. 05:14 AM - Re: Overhead vents (Lew Gallagher)
3. 07:21 AM - Re: Countersinking Fiberglas (Steve)
4. 12:51 PM - Normal build fuselage question (Bob Leffler)
5. 01:17 PM - Re: Normal build fuselage question (Jesse Saint)
6. 02:35 PM - Re: Normal build fuselage question (Rob Hunter)
7. 03:54 PM - Re: Normal build fuselage question (Bob Leffler)
8. 04:20 PM - Re: Overhead vents (Miller John)
9. 04:33 PM - calling Vans (David McNeill)
10. 05:51 PM - Re: Kick the Tires & Light the fire! (John Testement)
11. 06:08 PM - Re: Overhead vents (ricksked@embarqmail.com)
12. 09:34 PM - Carbon fiber panel (geoff Combs)
13. 11:09 PM - Re: Carbon fiber panel (Robin Marks)
14. 11:14 PM - Re: Carbon fiber panel (Robin Marks)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Countersinking Fiberglas |
Les,
You may want to give Eric a call. Eric used to work at Accuracy and
Redmond Air has continued manufacturing of the fiberglass parts that
Accuracy used to sell.
Bob
Eric McDonald
Avionics Technician
Redmond Air LLC
Redmond, Oregon
eric@redmondair.com
Phone: 541-923-1355
Fax: 541-923-4181
Full Service FBO CRS#: Q9RR266Y
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:50 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Countersinking Fiberglas
Hi Fred
Thanks for the PIX. I think I have an idea as to how you made things work.
If you have a copy of Tony's instructions that would be great. Unfortunately
I wasn't able to get a copy or speak to Tony about how things should go
together...
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Williams,
M.D.
Sent: March-02-09 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Countersinking Fiberglas
<drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
Les;
I up loaded some panel pics. I hope it will help some. I did use the
accuracy avionics panel. If you will look closely at the rear panel
picture dated 5/13/08 you can see the aluminum rails that I used to
mount the stack. If you look under the stack you see a couple of boards
that the panel is resting on. These are two layers of MDF that I cut to
the exact size of the radio stack. I then inserted them through the
opening of my center cut out and used them as the parallel and
reference to get the two aluminum rails in place. I don't specifically
remember how I attached the rails, but I remember trimming them to just
fit flush and up behind the fiberglass of the panel and epoxying them in
place. If I remember correctly, I used the corner screw holes to help
hold the rails in place. I also put plate nuts on the rails to hold
the exterior screws.
http://picasaweb.google.com/drfredparis/PanelPics?feat=directlink
Then, Tony's directions on taping the frames together lets you drill
into the sides of the aluminum angles and drill and tap for the screws
that hold the radio frames to the panel. If you don't have a copy of
Tony's directions, let me know and I can dig mine up for you.
Regarding the weight on the screws issue. I really just wanted you to
be aware of what I have seen. There are a lot of screws across there to
hold the weight. Also, for me, I covered the panel and console with a
layer of carbon fiber. That should be worth about 4 layers of
fiberglass. I know I have put a lot of weight on the console when I
have been panel diving to fix small issues and hook things up.
Also, I don't think I would have put the center console in if I had a
choice again. It is very difficult to work around and limits access to
the tunnel for maintenance.
I looks good and is functional. It also takes up some lateral knee room
on long flights.
Fred
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Overhead vents |
Hey Fred,
I'm in Jacksonville, FL for the prostate cancer treatments (a minor inconvenience
to fixing up stuff at the rental house and surf fishing), but I'd love to send
you the $ for the axle extensions if you still have them.
Let me know. Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting when it's 60+ degrees!
Piddling with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232915#232915
Message 3
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| Subject: | Countersinking Fiberglas |
I have attached the mounting instructions for the panel and console. I hopw
they come through.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 8:50 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Countersinking Fiberglas
Hi Fred
Thanks for the PIX. I think I have an idea as to how you made things work.
If you have a copy of Tony's instructions that would be great. Unfortunately
I wasn't able to get a copy or speak to Tony about how things should go
together...
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Williams,
M.D.
Sent: March-02-09 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Countersinking Fiberglas
<drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
Les;
I up loaded some panel pics. I hope it will help some. I did use the
accuracy avionics panel. If you will look closely at the rear panel
picture dated 5/13/08 you can see the aluminum rails that I used to
mount the stack. If you look under the stack you see a couple of boards
that the panel is resting on. These are two layers of MDF that I cut to
the exact size of the radio stack. I then inserted them through the
opening of my center cut out and used them as the parallel and
reference to get the two aluminum rails in place. I don't specifically
remember how I attached the rails, but I remember trimming them to just
fit flush and up behind the fiberglass of the panel and epoxying them in
place. If I remember correctly, I used the corner screw holes to help
hold the rails in place. I also put plate nuts on the rails to hold
the exterior screws.
http://picasaweb.google.com/drfredparis/PanelPics?feat=directlink
Then, Tony's directions on taping the frames together lets you drill
into the sides of the aluminum angles and drill and tap for the screws
that hold the radio frames to the panel. If you don't have a copy of
Tony's directions, let me know and I can dig mine up for you.
Regarding the weight on the screws issue. I really just wanted you to
be aware of what I have seen. There are a lot of screws across there to
hold the weight. Also, for me, I covered the panel and console with a
layer of carbon fiber. That should be worth about 4 layers of
fiberglass. I know I have put a lot of weight on the console when I
have been panel diving to fix small issues and hook things up.
Also, I don't think I would have put the center console in if I had a
choice again. It is very difficult to work around and limits access to
the tunnel for maintenance.
I looks good and is functional. It also takes up some lateral knee room
on long flights.
Fred
Message 4
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| Subject: | Normal build fuselage question |
Ok, I have a dumb question to ask and it's three hours before I can call
Van's. I was hoping to get a response off the list a little quicker.
On page 25-5 of the fuselage plans, you mount two hat stiffners to the
F-1004B center section bulkhead. Per the plans, you remove the hatched area
to allow access to buck the rivets on the lower flange of the F-1004B center
section bulkhead. No problem so far.
However, the bottom #12 hole underneath the hat section on the right side is
riveted already and the left side isn't. These are one of the massive
rivets that were pre-riveted from the factory. I've spent the last hour
looking ahead in the plans to see what might go into this hole, but can't
find anything. I've looked at a dozen sites looking for build pictures, but
this area is obscured in all the photos by the hat stiffner.
So my questions are:
1. Is the center section bulkhead correct? Is only one side supposed
to be riveted already or both? Again, I'm referring to the large #12 hole
at the bottom and underneath the hat stiffner.
2. Step 3 refers to riveting something later, so what page in the
plans highlights that step? I can't find it.
3. What goes into the left hole? Am I missing one of the large
rivets?
Thanks,
Bob
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Normal build fuselage question |
I'll give this a shot. Step 3 says that you need to cut the hat
stiffener to be able to buck the rivets in the flange, so these are
the rivets that will rivet to the bottom skin of the airplane. It is
not referring to the spar/center-section itself. If the #12 hole you
are referring to would be covered by the hat stiffener if you didn't
cut it, then I think they probably missed a rivet, especially if the
hole is open on one side of the plane and closed on the other. It is
possible they just missed a rivet. I think putting a #3 bolt in that
hole should take care of it, but I don't have those parts here to
compare. Maybe someone else who is closer to this section can help
better.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Mar 3, 2009, at 3:56 PM, Bob Leffler wrote:
> Ok, I have a dumb question to ask and it=92s three hours before I can
> call Van=92s. I was hoping to get a response off the list a little
> quicker.
>
> On page 25-5 of the fuselage plans, you mount two hat stiffners to
> the F-1004B center section bulkhead. Per the plans, you remove the
> hatched area to allow access to buck the rivets on the lower flange
> of the F-1004B center section bulkhead. No problem so far.
>
> However, the bottom #12 hole underneath the hat section on the right
> side is riveted already and the left side isn=92t. These are one of
> the massive rivets that were pre-riveted from the factory. I=92ve
> spent the last hour looking ahead in the plans to see what might go
> into this hole, but can=92t find anything. I=92ve looked at a dozen
> sites looking for build pictures, but this area is obscured in all
> the photos by the hat stiffner.
>
> So my questions are:
>
> 1. Is the center section bulkhead correct? Is only one side
> supposed to be riveted already or both? Again, I=92m referring to the
> large #12 hole at the bottom and underneath the hat stiffner.
> 2. Step 3 refers to riveting something later, so what page in
> the plans highlights that step? I can=92t find it.
> 3. What goes into the left hole? Am I missing one of the
> large rivets?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Normal build fuselage question |
Bob,
Underneath my hat stiffeners I have Van's installed rivets on both
sides. I don't see anything in step 3 of page 25-5 that says you rivet
something later.
Rob Hunter
Fuselage
40432
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:57 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Normal build fuselage question
Ok, I have a dumb question to ask and it's three hours before I can call
Van's. I was hoping to get a response off the list a little quicker.
On page 25-5 of the fuselage plans, you mount two hat stiffners to the
F-1004B center section bulkhead. Per the plans, you remove the hatched
area to allow access to buck the rivets on the lower flange of the
F-1004B center section bulkhead. No problem so far.
However, the bottom #12 hole underneath the hat section on the right
side is riveted already and the left side isn't. These are one of the
massive rivets that were pre-riveted from the factory. I've spent the
last hour looking ahead in the plans to see what might go into this
hole, but can't find anything. I've looked at a dozen sites looking for
build pictures, but this area is obscured in all the photos by the hat
stiffner.
So my questions are:
1. Is the center section bulkhead correct? Is only one side
supposed to be riveted already or both? Again, I'm referring to the
large #12 hole at the bottom and underneath the hat stiffner.
2. Step 3 refers to riveting something later, so what page in the
plans highlights that step? I can't find it.
3. What goes into the left hole? Am I missing one of the large
rivets?
Thanks,
Bob
Message 7
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| Subject: | Normal build fuselage question |
Thanks to all the replied!
Just got off the phone with Van's. I am indeed missing one of the large
rivets on the center section bulkhead. They offered two fixes. The first
was to send me a rivet and attempt to set it with a really large hammer. I
opted for the second choice, which was an AN3 bolt of the appropriate
length.
Bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Hunter
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 5:34 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Normal build fuselage question
Bob,
Underneath my hat stiffeners I have Van's installed rivets on both sides. I
don't see anything in step 3 of page 25-5 that says you rivet something
later.
Rob Hunter
Fuselage
40432
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:57 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Normal build fuselage question
Ok, I have a dumb question to ask and it's three hours before I can call
Van's. I was hoping to get a response off the list a little quicker.
On page 25-5 of the fuselage plans, you mount two hat stiffners to the
F-1004B center section bulkhead. Per the plans, you remove the hatched area
to allow access to buck the rivets on the lower flange of the F-1004B center
section bulkhead. No problem so far.
However, the bottom #12 hole underneath the hat section on the right side is
riveted already and the left side isn't. These are one of the massive
rivets that were pre-riveted from the factory. I've spent the last hour
looking ahead in the plans to see what might go into this hole, but can't
find anything. I've looked at a dozen sites looking for build pictures, but
this area is obscured in all the photos by the hat stiffner.
So my questions are:
1. Is the center section bulkhead correct? Is only one side supposed
to be riveted already or both? Again, I'm referring to the large #12 hole
at the bottom and underneath the hat stiffner.
2. Step 3 refers to riveting something later, so what page in the
plans highlights that step? I can't find it.
3. What goes into the left hole? Am I missing one of the large
rivets?
Thanks,
Bob
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Overhead vents |
I have the same console.
Also experienced some problems with too much cold air coming in.
Solution:
1. Cut out small foam inserts to put into the external vents for the
overhead console (my winterization kit!).
2. Bought some fire rated foam from Abby and put between the
corrugated panels and the bulkhead, effectively killing the flow
around the corrugations.
Combination of the 2 was the key for me!
grumpy
N184JM
do not archive
On Mar 2, 2009, at 9:45 PM, Fred Williams, M.D. wrote:
> >
>
> Paul;
>
> As you know, I installed the overhead console from accuracy
> avionics. I put two naca vents behind the aft bulkhead and used
> ducting to rout it up into the console. I also made a fiberglass
> piece to fill in the gap at the aft cover piece and up to the
> console. I get some airflow up to the front with the overhead air
> outlet while on the ground and it is quite ample when airborne. I
> rarely have it all the way open. I wonder if one would have been
> enough. (Then one would have to go through the mental gymnastics of
> which side to put it on given the rotational component of the
> airflow secondary to a prop.)
> I haven't ridden in the back seat yet, but over spring break I want
> to get back there and look at sealing off the joint better. (wonder
> if I could get any offers from someone to fly the plane for me ?? )
> The rear seat passengers (aka my wife) report a lot of air that
> comes out of the corrugations around the back panel. I am assuming
> that it is secondary to the pressure leaking around the joint and
> filling up the tail and coming out the only place it can : under
> the corrugations.
> I want to fly with the vents open and then plugged. I think that
> will be a good test to see if air is coming in from some where
> else. (around the tail then forward??).
>
> Again, I started flying at the end of September, so I don't know how
> well it will be in the summer here in Texas. I don't think it will
> be as good as Alex D's air conditioning, but I didn't want the added
> weight and complexity.
> I'm glad I put the overhead in place, even with the leaking
> problem. You feel cooler when you have air blowing in your face.
> The system doesn't weigh much at all and gives ample area to run
> lighting wires overhead. I think it is and was a little expensive,
> and if I did it again, would really look at the overhead consoles
> out of the cars mentioned in earlier posts.
> I also want to bend up an aluminum bracket to hold the pilot/copilot
> shoulder harnesses. There is no good place for them after you take
> them off. They fall right into the back seat and confuse the hades
> out of new passengers. They all want to hook them into their seat
> belts somehow.
> I also need to add a couple more plate nuts to the overhead access
> plate. It leaks around the edge from the pressure when all the
> vents are closed.
>
> I'll try to remember to write up a little report about what I've
> found/fixed in a couple weeks.
> I do plan to fly over to Sun 'n Fun Friday and Sat if anyone else on
> the list wants to take a look.
> And, I still have one set of axle extensions that my Dad machined to
> specs on Tim Olsen's site. I'd sell em for $10 plus shipping if
> anyone is in need of them. I had to fix a crack in one of the wheel
> pants fairings after painting and checked both of them when I filled
> the tires (with good ole Texas air). They are doing well. Fred.
> 515FW 90 hrs
>
>
Message 9
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A recent email lamented that there were about three hours until he could
call Vans. It has been my experience that whenever I had a question , Vans
answered no matter what time of day.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Kick the Tires & Light the fire! |
It's a great feeling to hear her purr! You should be real proud or your
creation.
We started ours up a week ago and looks like the DAR will inspect on
Saturday
John Testement
N311RV
40321
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 7:01 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Kick the Tires & Light the fire!
A bit of a milestone (for me) today. N519PJ drew her 1st breath!!
Deems Davis # 406
'Its put together, time to call the DAR'
http://deemsrv10.com/
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
17:46:00
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Overhead vents |
I spent the weekend at Redmond OR to get my 480 upgraded by Eric McDonald, one
of the original builders of the overhead when he was at Accuracy. He is the avionics
guru at Redmond Air and the real technical brains behind the now defunct
Accuracy. Seems he had several discussions with a few builders and the conclusion
was you only need one NACA vent. FWIW, Redmond Air is selling them and
Eric has improved many of the parts. He's a very bright guy with a good company
behind him. He took on the burden of helping Accuracy's customers with tech
support because he cares about his product he built. They have experimental panels
for all the RV's and the FBO was great to hang out at...I gladly picked up
the tab for dinner Friday for all he did for me. If you're looking for avionics
for your RV-10, you might want to give Redmond Air a shot....very nice facility
and a great staff...
Rick Sked
40185
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Overhead vents
I have the same console.
Also experienced some problems with too much cold air coming in.
Solution:
1. Cut out small foam inserts to put into the external vents for the
overhead console (my winterization kit!).
2. Bought some fire rated foam from Abby and put between the
corrugated panels and the bulkhead, effectively killing the flow
around the corrugations.
Combination of the 2 was the key for me!
grumpy
N184JM
do not archive
On Mar 2, 2009, at 9:45 PM, Fred Williams, M.D. wrote:
> >
>
> Paul;
>
> As you know, I installed the overhead console from accuracy
> avionics. I put two naca vents behind the aft bulkhead and used
> ducting to rout it up into the console. I also made a fiberglass
> piece to fill in the gap at the aft cover piece and up to the
> console. I get some airflow up to the front with the overhead air
> outlet while on the ground and it is quite ample when airborne. I
> rarely have it all the way open. I wonder if one would have been
> enough. (Then one would have to go through the mental gymnastics of
> which side to put it on given the rotational component of the
> airflow secondary to a prop.)
> I haven't ridden in the back seat yet, but over spring break I want
> to get back there and look at sealing off the joint better. (wonder
> if I could get any offers from someone to fly the plane for me ?? )
> The rear seat passengers (aka my wife) report a lot of air that
> comes out of the corrugations around the back panel. I am assuming
> that it is secondary to the pressure leaking around the joint and
> filling up the tail and coming out the only place it can : under
> the corrugations.
> I want to fly with the vents open and then plugged. I think that
> will be a good test to see if air is coming in from some where
> else. (around the tail then forward??).
>
> Again, I started flying at the end of September, so I don't know how
> well it will be in the summer here in Texas. I don't think it will
> be as good as Alex D's air conditioning, but I didn't want the added
> weight and complexity.
> I'm glad I put the overhead in place, even with the leaking
> problem. You feel cooler when you have air blowing in your face.
> The system doesn't weigh much at all and gives ample area to run
> lighting wires overhead. I think it is and was a little expensive,
> and if I did it again, would really look at the overhead consoles
> out of the cars mentioned in earlier posts.
> I also want to bend up an aluminum bracket to hold the pilot/copilot
> shoulder harnesses. There is no good place for them after you take
> them off. They fall right into the back seat and confuse the hades
> out of new passengers. They all want to hook them into their seat
> belts somehow.
> I also need to add a couple more plate nuts to the overhead access
> plate. It leaks around the edge from the pressure when all the
> vents are closed.
>
> I'll try to remember to write up a little report about what I've
> found/fixed in a couple weeks.
> I do plan to fly over to Sun 'n Fun Friday and Sat if anyone else on
> the list wants to take a look.
> And, I still have one set of axle extensions that my Dad machined to
> specs on Tim Olsen's site. I'd sell em for $10 plus shipping if
> anyone is in need of them. I had to fix a crack in one of the wheel
> pants fairings after painting and checked both of them when I filled
> the tires (with good ole Texas air). They are doing well. Fred.
> 515FW 90 hrs
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Carbon fiber panel |
Here are some pictures of my carbon fiber panel and lower centerconsole. All parts
weigh 2lbs. These will be available very soon if anyone is
interested. See more pictures at the link below
http://albums.phanfare.com/isolated/L5LenCCI/7068012/3161550
Geoff
--------
Build QB RV-10 N829GW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233076#233076
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1558_137.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1552_172.jpg
Message 13
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| Subject: | Carbon fiber panel |
Geoff,
Sometimes it sucks to be an early adopter. You miss so many
"goodies" that come along. Clearly the design & execution are more than
just a goodie. Really superior work. I notice the rendering is
significantly different that the finished product in that the radio
stack is shifted right. Good call for side by side glass is ideal (for
me). The only downside is no throttle quadrant in this configuration.
Are you going to offer that as an option?
I see you installed AA's OH console. How about trying your hand
at one of those too? There are so many things not... ideal about that
unit.
Well done!
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of geoff Combs
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Carbon fiber panel
Here are some pictures of my carbon fiber panel and lower centerconsole.
All parts weigh 2lbs. These will be available very soon if anyone is
interested. See more pictures at the link below
http://albums.phanfare.com/isolated/L5LenCCI/7068012/3161550
Geoff
--------
Build QB RV-10 N829GW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233076#233076
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| Subject: | Carbon fiber panel |
Geoff,
I watched the video of the CNC and block of aluminum. Is solid
metal required to form CF parts. Can carbon come off a wood form.
Robin
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