---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/18/09: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:34 AM - Quick Build Factory (rbliss1015@aol.com) 2. 06:14 AM - Re: Quick Build Factory (jim@CombsFive.Com) 3. 07:36 AM - Re: 3 degree reflex (hsdexo) 4. 07:47 AM - Re: Fun with Andair valve and scat tube (Bob and Karen Brown) 5. 08:39 AM - Re: Quick Build Factory (Perry, Phil) 6. 10:49 AM - Tailcone Question (Strasnuts) 7. 11:02 AM - Re: Quick Build Factory (John Gonzalez) 8. 11:09 AM - Re: Quick Build Factory (John Cumins) 9. 11:14 AM - Re: Tailcone Question (Tim Olson) 10. 11:28 AM - Re: Tailcone Question (Perry, Phil) 11. 11:35 AM - Re: Quick Build Factory (Perry, Phil) 12. 11:40 AM - Re: Tailcone Question (Seano) 13. 11:49 AM - Re: Tailcone Question (John Cumins) 14. 11:49 AM - Re: Tailcone Question (Rene Felker) 15. 11:55 AM - IO-540 for sale (Paul Grimstad) 16. 11:58 AM - Re: Tailcone Question (Kent Ogden) 17. 12:31 PM - Re: Tailcone Question (johngoodman) 18. 12:48 PM - Re: Tailcone Question (David Maib) 19. 01:55 PM - Re: Tailcone Question (Kent Ogden) 20. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: Tailcone Question (Steve Mills) 21. 02:50 PM - Re: Tailcone Question (Bob and Karen Brown) 22. 03:12 PM - Re: Tailcone Question (Perry, Phil) 23. 03:20 PM - Re: Tailcone Question (Bill Mauledriver Watson) 24. 03:20 PM - Re: Quick Build Factory (doctornigel) 25. 03:59 PM - Re: Re: Quick Build Factory (Kelly McMullen) 26. 04:29 PM - Re: Re: Tailcone Question (Bill Mauledriver Watson) 27. 05:51 PM - Re: Fun with Andair valve and scat tube (Jeff Carpenter) 28. 06:31 PM - Re: Tailcone Question (Jim Berry) 29. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: Tailcone Question (Bob and Karen Brown) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:55 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Quick Build Factory From: rbliss1015@aol.com To Anyone, I often frequent Manila, Philippines usually once a month and generally have a two day layover there before returning to Tokyo. My time is free during those days (already done about every tour you can do). My question is, has anyone had the opportunity to visit the Quick Build factory? I understand they have moved to a new location and are up and running. How far is it from Makati City? (suburb of Manila). Transportation shouldn't be an issue, you can hire a cab for the day pretty cheap here. I am nearing the completion of my tail section and have the wings on saw horses. It is my intent to order the Quick Build fuselage but I was wanting to visit the factory. I have been given a contact email of an employee there in Manila, but as of yet he hasn't responded to any of my emails/requests. Fly safe, Rusty do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Quick Build Factory From: jim@CombsFive.Com Last I knew, it was a company called Bonanza Manufacturing or something like that. I think they make stuff for other companies besides Vans. I travel to the Philippines as well but never been to Manila. For a while they had a web site with pictures and it had lots of Vans info on it. It disappeared off the Internet. Jim Combs N312F - Flying (Dang this is FUN!) Makes the 4 years and 8 months of building worth it! Do Not Archive ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Anyone, I often frequent Manila, Philippines usually once a month and generally have a two day layover there before returning to Tokyo. My time is free during those days (already done about every tour you can do). My question is, has anyone had the opportunity to visit the Quick Build factory? I understand they have moved to a new location and are up and running. How far is it from Makati City? (suburb of Manila). Transportation shouldn't be an issue, you can hire a cab for the day pretty cheap here. I am nearing the completion of my tail section and have the wings on saw horses. It is my intent to order the Quick Build fuselage but I was wanting to visit the factory. I have been given a contact email of an employee there in Manila, but as of yet he hasn't responded to any of my emails/requests. Fly safe, Rusty do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:38 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: 3 degree reflex From: "hsdexo" Thanks guys for the help. [Laughing] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235090#235090 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:58 AM PST US From: "Bob and Karen Brown" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fun with Andair valve and scat tube That might be what I end up doing Deems...it looks like it'll work. I've got some upcoming spinal surgery in April...so a little fiberglass project might just keep my head in the game... I was thinking more of a one tube to two tube contraption...the idea being to maintain airflow volume, but still minimize the scat size (sounds like a wildcat hunting expedition...)...I'll let you fly a little in cold weather and let me know how much heat you get in the back before I move forward with my little fiberglass project, that means (you'll have to get those 40 hrs flown off and) come up here to Oregon this month!!! I'll buy you and Ed Hayden lunch here in Independence and show you our -10 project...and of course, (it goes without saying here in Independence, 7S5); you've always got a free place to stay, a car (and/or bicycle or motorcycle) to drive, and we can find you a hangar for the night. THANKS for the photolinks. That's exactly what I was looking for...visual ideas. Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 5:19 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fun with Andair valve and scat tube you mean like this? : http://deemsrv10.com/album/Final%20Assembly/slides/DSC07074.html http://deemsrv10.com/album/Final%20Assembly/slides/DSC07075.html http://deemsrv10.com/album/Final%20Assembly/slides/DSC07076.html Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....finally!!!!! http://deemsrv10.com/ Bob and Karen Brown wrote: > > Looks like you've got more room than I do, I planned to make a > fiberglass plenum going from one 2" scat to two 1" scat, then another > plenum back into 2" on the aft side of the spar.for sure it would be > more work, but I wasn't smart enough to turn one of the Andair > fittings 90 degrees.mine are both vertical so I have less room to work > with unless I go back in and totally replumb. > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rob Kochman > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:37 AM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Fun with Andair valve and scat tube > > I got creative with my fuel line rounting to leave some space under > the valve to run the scat tube. See the picture here: > > http://kochman.net/N819K/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/img_5098.jpg > > My intent is to run the scat tube by the valve under the valve and > rudder cable on the right side (left when looking at the picture). I > will likely wrap the scat tube in the heat reflective material to > minimize heat around the fuel lines. Note: the fuel line from the > valve to filter is not shown in the picture, but goes straight down > and thus should not interfere. > > Anyone see a problem with this? Thanks... > > -Rob > > > -- > Rob Kochman > RV-10 Wings > Woodinville, WA (near Seattle) > http://kochman.net/N819K > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > ** > ** > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > ** > * * > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:36 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Quick Build Factory From: "Perry, Phil" Bonanza Metalcrafters went out of business and now Vans is holding the bag with several QB kit orders that they can't deliver. The owners of Bonanza started a new company in a new location. They're really in a pinch because the new location won't allow many of the old (trained) workers aren't able to make it to he new factory. Talking with Vans, they say they're getting smaller airplane kits (6,7,8's etc). But they are not building 10 kits. They haven't been for many months (probably Nov). I ordered a QB kit in Dec and Vans still can't provide a delivery date because the factory isn't turning out any -10s. Even a best case scenario would put a QB fuse in my hands in May/June but it will probably be longer. Not to mention my kit will be put together by inexperienced builders. YIKES! I've talked to a few other builders who have been waiting on QB -10 parts since Aug. Van's is really in a pinch right now but in typical Vans fashion, they've refused to publicly comment or acknowledge the issue. Phil ________________________________ From: jim@CombsFive.Com [mailto:jim@CombsFive.Com] Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:13 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Quick Build Factory Last I knew, it was a company called Bonanza Manufacturing or something like that. I think they make stuff for other companies besides Vans. I travel to the Philippines as well but never been to Manila. For a while they had a web site with pictures and it had lots of Vans info on it. It disappeared off the Internet. Jim Combs N312F - Flying (Dang this is FUN!) Makes the 4 years and 8 months of building worth it! Do Not Archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------- To Anyone, I often frequent Manila, Philippines usually once a month and generally have a two day layover there before returning to Tokyo. My time is free during those days (already done about every tour you can do). My question is, has anyone had the opportunity to visit the Quick Build factory? I understand they have moved to a new location and are up and running. How far is it from Makati City? (suburb of Manila). Transportation shouldn't be an issue, you can hire a cab for the day pretty cheap here. I am nearing the completion of my tail section and have the wings on saw horses. It is my intent to order the Quick Build fuselage but I was wanting to visit the factory. I have been given a contact email of an employee there in Manila, but as of yet he hasn't responded to any of my emails/requests. Fly safe, Rusty do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:49:59 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Tailcone Question From: "Strasnuts" I am just starting to rivet the tailcone. I need to know if I can start riveting one side skin and the bottom skin without clecoing (is that even a word?) the other side skin in place. It seems like I can but should I? Thanks -------- A&P, ATP typed CE-525(s), CE-500 RV-10 emp started!!!! N801VR reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235111#235111 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:54 AM PST US From: John Gonzalez Subject: RE: RV10-List: Quick Build Factory Look at the bright side=2C maybe you won't spend money you thought you had. Hopefully you can keep building on other parts. I am optimistic that economically things will be turning around=2C but layi ng out all your money and fornunately having the items to show for it=2C is comforting in one way=2C but when the account is near zero and taxes=2C ta xes due because of underpayments and first quarterly are due in addition to anything going into the 401 for '08=2C along with all the econimic uncerta inty....it is not that comfoirtable a place to be in either. Look at the bright side!! Subject: RE: RV10-List: Quick Build Factory From: Phil.Perry@netapp.com Bonanza Metalcrafters went out of business and now Vans is holding the bag with several QB kit orders that they can't deliver. The owners of Bonanza started a new company in a new location. They're rea lly in a pinch because the new location won't allow many of the old (traine d) workers aren't able to make it to he new factory. Talking with Vans=2C they say they're getting smaller airplane kits (6=2C7 =2C8's etc). But they are not building 10 kits. They haven't been for man y months (probably Nov). I ordered a QB kit in Dec and Vans still can't provide a delivery date beca use the factory isn't turning out any -10s. Even a best case scenario woul d put a QB fuse in my hands in May/June but it will probably be longer. No t to mention my kit will be put together by inexperienced builders. YIKES! I've talked to a few other builders who have been waiting on QB -10 parts s ince Aug. Van's is really in a pinch right now but in typical Vans fashion=2C they've refused to publicly comment or acknowledge the issue. Phil From: jim@CombsFive.Com [mailto:jim@CombsFive.Com] Sent: Wednesday=2C March 18=2C 2009 8:13 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Quick Build Factory Last I knew=2C it was a company called Bonanza Manufacturing or something l ike that. I think they make stuff for other companies besides Vans. I tra vel to the Philippines as well but never been to Manila. For a while they had a web site with pictures and it had lots of Vans info on it. It disapp eared off the Internet. Jim Combs N312F - Flying (Dang this is FUN!) Makes the 4 years and 8 months of build ing worth it! Do Not Archive --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------- To Anyone=2C I often frequent Manila=2C Philippines usually once a month and generally have a two day layover there before returning to Tokyo. My time is free during those days (already done about every tour you can do). My question is=2C has anyone had the opportunity to visit the Quick Build factory? I understand they have moved to a new location and are up and running. How far is it from Makati City? (suburb of Manila). Transportation shouldn't be an issue=2C you can hire a cab for the day pretty cheap here. I am nearing the completion of my tail section and have the wings on saw horses. It is my intent to order the Quick Build fuselage but I was wanting to visit the factory. I have been given a contact email of an employee there in Manila=2C but as of yet he hasn't responded to any of my emails/requests. Fly safe=2C Rusty do not archive href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:06 AM PST US From: "John Cumins" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Quick Build Factory Sounds to me I made the right decision not to go QB. The lead time for all kits accept the EMP kit of the -10 is 60 days according to Vans af os 2 weeks ago when I went and visited the factory in Auora. I have to say Vans is a very informative and pleasant company to work with and I very much enjoyed the visit very much, and the best part was when Rob took me for a flight in the 10. Man I was impressed, and am VERY glad I decided to build a 10. On another note. I visited Advanced Flight Systems just 4 miles east of Vans. They greeted me with open arms. I was able to spend as much time as I could remembering questions about there product. There engineer walked me thru the entire system, how they integrate to each other and how the integrate to the AP and other gps, IE Garmans, As of now I am sold on there product like and will also still review all products out there but I personally believe the AFS product is the front runner for the -10 series. That's my 2 cents worth. John G. Cumins President JC'S Interactive Systems 2499 B1 Martin Rd Fairfield Ca 94533 707-425-7100 707-425-7576 Fax Your Total Technology Solution Provider _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:36 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Quick Build Factory Bonanza Metalcrafters went out of business and now Vans is holding the bag with several QB kit orders that they can't deliver. The owners of Bonanza started a new company in a new location. They're really in a pinch because the new location won't allow many of the old (trained) workers aren't able to make it to he new factory. Talking with Vans, they say they're getting smaller airplane kits (6,7,8's etc). But they are not building 10 kits. They haven't been for many months (probably Nov). I ordered a QB kit in Dec and Vans still can't provide a delivery date because the factory isn't turning out any -10s. Even a best case scenario would put a QB fuse in my hands in May/June but it will probably be longer. Not to mention my kit will be put together by inexperienced builders. YIKES! I've talked to a few other builders who have been waiting on QB -10 parts since Aug. Van's is really in a pinch right now but in typical Vans fashion, they've refused to publicly comment or acknowledge the issue. Phil _____ From: jim@CombsFive.Com [mailto:jim@CombsFive.Com] Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:13 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Quick Build Factory Last I knew, it was a company called Bonanza Manufacturing or something like that. I think they make stuff for other companies besides Vans. I travel to the Philippines as well but never been to Manila. For a while they had a web site with pictures and it had lots of Vans info on it. It disappeared off the Internet. Jim Combs N312F - Flying (Dang this is FUN!) Makes the 4 years and 8 months of building worth it! Do Not Archive ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- To Anyone, I often frequent Manila, Philippines usually once a month and generally have a two day layover there before returning to Tokyo. My time is free during those days (already done about every tour you can do). My question is, has anyone had the opportunity to visit the Quick Build factory? I understand they have moved to a new location and are up and running. How far is it from Makati City? (suburb of Manila). Transportation shouldn't be an issue, you can hire a cab for the day pretty cheap here. I am nearing the completion of my tail section and have the wings on saw horses. It is my intent to order the Quick Build fuselage but I was wanting to visit the factory. I have been given a contact email of an employee there in Manila, but as of yet he hasn't responded to any of my emails/requests. Fly safe, Rusty do not archive href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:14:19 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tailcone Question It would probably work, but you may want to at least put some clecos in on the other side and help ensure that all the parts are in alignment so everything ends up straight. With the matched hole system though I bet it would come out ok. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Strasnuts wrote: > > I am just starting to rivet the tailcone. I need to know if I can start riveting one side skin and the bottom skin without clecoing (is that even a word?) the other side skin in place. It seems like I can but should I? > > > Thanks > > -------- > A&P, ATP > typed CE-525(s), CE-500 > RV-10 emp started!!!! > N801VR reserved > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:28:02 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tailcone Question From: "Perry, Phil" I clecoed all of mine together, but left a space for the saw horses all the way around. This way I could sit the tailcone on the saw horses and roll it side-to-side so I could get access to the required area. You may be asking because you don't have a rivet partner and you're trying to shoot and buck at the same time. I managed to get a highly unskilled helper in my wife. She dropped the rivets in the hole and held them (flush side) in position with a bucking bar. I shot them from the backside with a back-rivet set. Looks great and she didn't have to develop any skills shooting or bucking. Phil -----Original Message----- From: Strasnuts [mailto:sean@braunandco.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:43 PM Subject: RV10-List: Tailcone Question I am just starting to rivet the tailcone. I need to know if I can start riveting one side skin and the bottom skin without clecoing (is that even a word?) the other side skin in place. It seems like I can but should I? Thanks -------- A&P, ATP typed CE-525(s), CE-500 RV-10 emp started!!!! N801VR reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235111#235111 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:37 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Quick Build Factory From: "Perry, Phil" Yeah, I did just that John...... Lemonade out of Lemons. When Vans said they can't provide a kit, I told them that I'd rather do something else with the money. The lady I talked to said, "No Problem". So I took the money and put it against a car loan to reduce our monthly commitments - just in case my job goes south. When Vans starts shipping kits again, she's going to call and we'll setup delivery and payment. I wish I had something to work on, but the tailcone is completely done so I'm just sitting around. I have a buddy who's finishing his tailcone and I have been helping him out a bit. It keeps my mind active, but the airplane isn't making any progress. However, given the state of the economy I feel lucky to have some time and extra money to clean house a bit more. :) Phil ________________________________ From: John Gonzalez [mailto:indigoonlatigo@msn.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:59 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Quick Build Factory Look at the bright side, maybe you won't spend money you thought you had. Hopefully you can keep building on other parts. I am optimistic that economically things will be turning around, but laying out all your money and fornunately having the items to show for it, is comforting in one way, but when the account is near zero and taxes, taxes due because of underpayments and first quarterly are due in addition to anything going into the 401 for '08, along with all the econimic uncertainty....it is not that comfoirtable a place to be in either. Look at the bright side!! ________________________________ Subject: RE: RV10-List: Quick Build Factory From: Phil.Perry@netapp.com Bonanza Metalcrafters went out of business and now Vans is holding the bag with several QB kit orders that they can't deliver. The owners of Bonanza started a new company in a new location. They're really in a pinch because the new location won't allow many of the old (trained) workers aren't able to make it to he new factory. Talking with Vans, they say they're getting smaller airplane kits (6,7,8's etc). But they are not building 10 kits. They haven't been for many months (probably Nov). I ordered a QB kit in Dec and Vans still can't provide a delivery date because the factory isn't turning out any -10s. Even a best case scenario would put a QB fuse in my hands in May/June but it will probably be longer. Not to mention my kit will be put together by inexperienced builders. YIKES! I've talked to a few other builders who have been waiting on QB -10 parts since Aug. Van's is really in a pinch right now but in typical Vans fashion, they've refused to publicly comment or acknowledge the issue. Phil ________________________________ From: jim@CombsFive.Com [mailto:jim@CombsFive.Com] Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:13 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Quick Build Factory Last I knew, it was a company called Bonanza Manufacturing or something like that. I think they make stuff for other companies besides Vans. I travel to the Philippines as well but never been to Manila. For a while they had a web site with pictures and it had lots of Vans info on it. It disappeared off the Internet. Jim Combs N312F - Flying (Dang this is FUN!) Makes the 4 years and 8 months of building worth it! Do Not Archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------- To Anyone, I often frequent Manila, Philippines usually once a month and generally have a two day layover there before returning to Tokyo. My time is free during those days (already done about every tour you can do). My question is, has anyone had the opportunity to visit the Quick Build factory? I understand they have moved to a new location and are up and running. How far is it from Makati City? (suburb of Manila). Transportation shouldn't be an issue, you can hire a cab for the day pretty cheap here. I am nearing the completion of my tail section and have the wings on saw horses. It is my intent to order the Quick Build fuselage but I was wanting to visit the factory. I have been given a contact email of an employee there in Manila, but as of yet he hasn't responded to any of my emails/requests. Fly safe, Rusty do not archive href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s .com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:15 AM PST US From: "Seano" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tailcone Question Thanks for the quick reply, I have done 99.9% of the build on my own so far. My wife is making most of the money so I will get a cheaper helper It's getting to the point where I NEED some more hands! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Perry, Phil" Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:22 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tailcone Question > > I clecoed all of mine together, but left a space for the saw horses all > the way around. > > This way I could sit the tailcone on the saw horses and roll it > side-to-side so I could get access to the required area. > > You may be asking because you don't have a rivet partner and you're > trying to shoot and buck at the same time. I managed to get a highly > unskilled helper in my wife. She dropped the rivets in the hole and > held them (flush side) in position with a bucking bar. I shot them from > the backside with a back-rivet set. Looks great and she didn't have to > develop any skills shooting or bucking. > > Phil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Strasnuts [mailto:sean@braunandco.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:43 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Tailcone Question > > > I am just starting to rivet the tailcone. I need to know if I can start > riveting one side skin and the bottom skin without clecoing (is that > even a word?) the other side skin in place. It seems like I can but > should I? > > > Thanks > > -------- > A&P, ATP > typed CE-525(s), CE-500 > RV-10 emp started!!!! > N801VR reserved > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235111#235111 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:11 AM PST US From: "John Cumins" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tailcone Question Phil Thanks for letting us know that trick. I am sure my wife can do the same thing, I also have a very large flat steel plate that I use for back riveting and it works great I am sure it will work for this. Thanks again. John G. Cumins President JC'S Interactive Systems 2499 B1 Martin Rd Fairfield Ca 94533 707-425-7100 707-425-7576 Fax Your Total Technology Solution Provider -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:22 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tailcone Question I clecoed all of mine together, but left a space for the saw horses all the way around. This way I could sit the tailcone on the saw horses and roll it side-to-side so I could get access to the required area. You may be asking because you don't have a rivet partner and you're trying to shoot and buck at the same time. I managed to get a highly unskilled helper in my wife. She dropped the rivets in the hole and held them (flush side) in position with a bucking bar. I shot them from the backside with a back-rivet set. Looks great and she didn't have to develop any skills shooting or bucking. Phil -----Original Message----- From: Strasnuts [mailto:sean@braunandco.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:43 PM Subject: RV10-List: Tailcone Question I am just starting to rivet the tailcone. I need to know if I can start riveting one side skin and the bottom skin without clecoing (is that even a word?) the other side skin in place. It seems like I can but should I? Thanks -------- A&P, ATP typed CE-525(s), CE-500 RV-10 emp started!!!! N801VR reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235111#235111 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:29 AM PST US From: "Rene Felker" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tailcone Question I did a lot of my tail cone by myself. I made small back rivet table (stacked boards) and left as many clecos in as possible and then just stuck my head in and started riveting. As you start filling rivet holes it gets easier since you don't have as many clecos in to get in the way (hitting the table). I left both side skins on in fear that I would get the bulkheads out of line somehow..... Rene' Felker RV-10 N423CF Flying 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:22 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tailcone Question I clecoed all of mine together, but left a space for the saw horses all the way around. This way I could sit the tailcone on the saw horses and roll it side-to-side so I could get access to the required area. You may be asking because you don't have a rivet partner and you're trying to shoot and buck at the same time. I managed to get a highly unskilled helper in my wife. She dropped the rivets in the hole and held them (flush side) in position with a bucking bar. I shot them from the backside with a back-rivet set. Looks great and she didn't have to develop any skills shooting or bucking. Phil -----Original Message----- From: Strasnuts [mailto:sean@braunandco.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:43 PM Subject: RV10-List: Tailcone Question I am just starting to rivet the tailcone. I need to know if I can start riveting one side skin and the bottom skin without clecoing (is that even a word?) the other side skin in place. It seems like I can but should I? Thanks -------- A&P, ATP typed CE-525(s), CE-500 RV-10 emp started!!!! N801VR reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235111#235111 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:01 AM PST US From: "Paul Grimstad" Subject: RV10-List: IO-540 for sale Thunderbolt IO-540 engine for sale. Details available upon request. Crated and ready to ship. Email off line or call. Paul Grimstad Portland, Or. 503-849-2123 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:27 AM PST US From: "Kent Ogden" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tailcone Question Having just been there and done that, I didn't have both side skins on while riveting and everything came out fine. I think the plans start you on the bottom skin IIRC and you really have to have the frames in place with the stiffeners, you won't be able to easily get the frames over the stiffeners once riveted. I put my clecoes on the inside of the skins and did as many rivets as possible by back riveting. This worked great, just be sure there is no gap between the stiffener and skin and that you're solid on the back riveting plate. Once the top skins go on, it really helps to have a ten year old (or petite spouse) to sit inside and buck rivets for you. Someone else mentioned this a while ago and offered their ten year old for rent, luckily I had one available! Hope this helps. Kent #40710 waiting for wing kit >>> "Strasnuts" 3/18/2009 1:43 PM >>> I am just starting to rivet the tailcone. I need to know if I can start riveting one side skin and the bottom skin without clecoing (is that even a word?) the other side skin in place. It seems like I can but should I? Thanks -------- A&P, ATP typed CE-525(s), CE-500 RV-10 emp started!!!! N801VR reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235111#235111 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:08 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Tailcone Question From: "johngoodman" I'd really like to get one of those ten year olds - how much do they cost? In a more serious vein, this is a good time to think about a couple of Adel Clamp mounts in the aft tailcone area while it's easy to get to it. Even if you run conduit back there, you'll need some way to hold the conduit in place - Adel Clamps. John -------- #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit started. N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235130#235130 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:26 PM PST US From: David Maib Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tailcone Question That is exactly how Mary and I did ours. Worked fantastic and looks great. David Maib 40559 On Mar 18, 2009, at 2:22 PM, Perry, Phil wrote: I clecoed all of mine together, but left a space for the saw horses all the way around. This way I could sit the tailcone on the saw horses and roll it side-to-side so I could get access to the required area. You may be asking because you don't have a rivet partner and you're trying to shoot and buck at the same time. I managed to get a highly unskilled helper in my wife. She dropped the rivets in the hole and held them (flush side) in position with a bucking bar. I shot them from the backside with a back-rivet set. Looks great and she didn't have to develop any skills shooting or bucking. Phil -----Original Message----- From: Strasnuts [mailto:sean@braunandco.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:43 PM Subject: RV10-List: Tailcone Question I am just starting to rivet the tailcone. I need to know if I can start riveting one side skin and the bottom skin without clecoing (is that even a word?) the other side skin in place. It seems like I can but should I? Thanks -------- A&P, ATP typed CE-525(s), CE-500 RV-10 emp started!!!! N801VR reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235111#235111 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:17 PM PST US From: "Kent Ogden" Subject: RV10-List: Re: Tailcone Question This is an outstanding suggestion, and one which I wish I had thought about before finishing the tailcone. Still won't be too hard to do before the tailcone is mounted to the fuse. I wish Van's had put some suggestions in the plans for doing this. You need some wires for the lights, plus the elevator trim at a minimum, is there anything else (magnetometer etc) that might go back there? Looking at some builders sites (Deem's comes to mind) I found some pictures of what they did that gave me some ideas, but I like the conduit idea best as it should provide the best protection for the wire. On a related note, I wonder if anyone has installed one of these integrated position/strobes in the rudder: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/posistrobe.php (manufacturer at http://www.aveoaviationlights.com/) Looks pretty cool, no external HV power supply. Kind of expensive though. I looked at the drawings for the light and measured the flat spot on the rudder fairing, the light is exactly the right size. Maybe that's standard for these lights (e.g. the same as the A625 light that Van's sells)? Kent Ogden #40710 Waiting for wing kit >>> "johngoodman" 3/18/2009 3:28 PM >>> I'd really like to get one of those ten year olds - how much do they cost? In a more serious vein, this is a good time to think about a couple of Adel Clamp mounts in the aft tailcone area while it's easy to get to it. Even if you run conduit back there, you'll need some way to hold the conduit in place - Adel Clamps. John -------- #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit started. N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235130#235130 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:53 PM PST US From: "Steve Mills" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Tailcone Question I built a shelf for my magnetometer, about 1/2 way back in the tailcone (see picture), and it would of been lots easier to do while building the tailcone. Simply mount it on the top longeron, and it will be very close to level. You can the fine-tune the level and direction, when you install the magnetometer. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kent Ogden Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:47 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Tailcone Question This is an outstanding suggestion, and one which I wish I had thought about before finishing the tailcone. Still won't be too hard to do before the tailcone is mounted to the fuse. I wish Van's had put some suggestions in the plans for doing this. You need some wires for the lights, plus the elevator trim at a minimum, is there anything else (magnetometer etc) that might go back there? Looking at some builders sites (Deem's comes to mind) I found some pictures of what they did that gave me some ideas, but I like the conduit idea best as it should provide the best protection for the wire. On a related note, I wonder if anyone has installed one of these integrated position/strobes in the rudder: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/posistrobe.php (manufacturer at http://www.aveoaviationlights.com/) Looks pretty cool, no external HV power supply. Kind of expensive though. I looked at the drawings for the light and measured the flat spot on the rudder fairing, the light is exactly the right size. Maybe that's standard for these lights (e.g. the same as the A625 light that Van's sells)? Kent Ogden #40710 Waiting for wing kit >>> "johngoodman" 3/18/2009 3:28 PM >>> I'd really like to get one of those ten year olds - how much do they cost? In a more serious vein, this is a good time to think about a couple of Adel Clamp mounts in the aft tailcone area while it's easy to get to it. Even if you run conduit back there, you'll need some way to hold the conduit in place - Adel Clamps. John -------- #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit started. N711JG reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235130#235130 &~2=03 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:11 PM PST US From: "Bob and Karen Brown" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tailcone Question We stood the cone on end, supported it high enough I could stand on a stool. I stood inside (with hearing protection!) and a rivet gun, my wife used a bucking bar to back rivet from the outside. Worked like a champbut don=99t lose your balance!! Do not archive From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kent Ogden Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:56 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tailcone Question Having just been there and done that, I didn't have both side skins on while riveting and everything came out fine. I think the plans start you on the bottom skin IIRC and you really have to have the frames in place with the stiffeners, you won't be able to easily get the frames over the stiffeners once riveted. I put my clecoes on the inside of the skins and did as many rivets as possible by back riveting. This worked great, just be sure there is no gap between the stiffener and skin and that you're solid on the back riveting plate. Once the top skins go on, it really helps to have a ten year old (or petite spouse) to sit inside and buck rivets for you. Someone else mentioned this a while ago and offered their ten year old for rent, luckily I had one available! Hope this helps. Kent #40710 waiting for wing kit >>> "Strasnuts" 3/18/2009 1:43 PM >>> I am just starting to rivet the tailcone. I need to know if I can start riveting one side skin and the bottom skin without clecoing (is that even a word?) the other side skin in place. It seems like I can but should I? Thanks -------- A&P, ATP typed CE-525(s), CE-500 RV-10 emp started!!!! 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I did as much of the riveting solo as possible. An approx 1'x2'x3/8" back rivet plate made most of that possible. It was all cleco'd together from the beginning Some of the rivets in the top deck required some 2 person riveting. Contrary to most, I found it easiest to teach my mate to operate the gun when back riveting or flush riveting. The bar can be harder to handle and definitely does the damage... and I want to be the one that does the damage. Strasnuts wrote: > > I am just starting to rivet the tailcone. I need to know if I can start riveting one side skin and the bottom skin without clecoing (is that even a word?) the other side skin in place. It seems like I can but should I? > > > Thanks > > -------- > A&P, ATP > typed CE-525(s), CE-500 > RV-10 emp started!!!! > N801VR reserved > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235111#235111 > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:55 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Quick Build Factory From: "doctornigel" I just called Vans and was told that they just moved the factory, and some law required them to fire the workers and then rehire them, that the same company and people are building the kits and that the end of April/beginning of may is when I should get my kit. I wonder if I call another person if I'll get another story? What is up, I hate to react to something without being able to check it out, I certainly want my QB to be put together by someone who has as much experience as able. Can someone findout for sure? I would go with Slo build if there is a doubt and I could switch. If anyone else hears or calls please post. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235157#235157 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Quick Build Factory From: Kelly McMullen I was given essentially the same story when I placed my QB order about a month ago. However a few days earlier I was told July. It really would be nice to have accurate info, just to plan other work. On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 3:16 PM, doctornigel wrote: > > I just called Vans and was told that they just moved the factory, and some law required them to fire the workers and then rehire them, that the same company and people are building the kits and that the end of April/beginning of may is when I should get my kit. I wonder if I call another person if I'll get another story? What is up, I hate to react to something without being able to check it out, I certainly want my QB to be put together by someone who has as much experience as able. Can someone findout for sure? I would go with Slo build if there is a doubt and I could switch. If anyone else hears or calls please post. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235157#235157 > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:01 PM PST US From: Bill Mauledriver Watson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Tailcone Question I too wish I had built a shelf for my dual magnetometers back then. I built and discarded one I tried to build to hug the very top of the cone after the fuse was all together.. The challenge is figuring out an optimal location relative to all the magnetic fields to be installed later. 1) the elevator trim motor, 2) the pitch trim motor, 3) the strobe power unit (which assume kicks of some field). I Installed my tray further forward in the same bay and biased to the left side of the cone to put it equidistant from the 2 trim motors. Of course, the unit may not be as sensitive as suggested. Somewhere down the line some one will have a documented a serviceable location for the various brands and configs. Steve Mills wrote: > I built a shelf for my magnetometer, about 1/2 way back in the > tailcone (see picture), and it would of been lots easier to do while > building the tailcone. Simply mount it on the top longeron, and it > will be very close to level. You can the fine-tune the level and > direction, when you install the magnetometer. > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:48 PM PST US From: Jeff Carpenter Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fun with Andair valve and scat tube ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:57 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Tailcone Question From: "Jim Berry" I would second Rene's recommendation to back rivet the tail cone. I was able to back rivet the entire cone, minus about 6 rivets in the narrowest aft-most portion. A suggestion that I have not seen mentioned before is that I would recommend back riveting the F-1047B-R,L and C stiffeners to the F-1075 skin before clecoing the skin to the bulkheads. It is much easier to do this with the skin flat on your bench. Just leave the rivet holes open where the stiffeners cross the bulkheads. I had some concern that I would not be able to get the stiffeners into the corresponding bulkhead slots, but with a little flexing of the stiffeners it worked out fine. And saved a lot of riveting inside the tail cone. Jim Berry 40482 N15JB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235187#235187 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:34 PM PST US From: "Bob and Karen Brown" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Tailcone Question I too back riveted almost the entire tail cone and all the side and bottom skins (except for those few...) wherever I can figure out a way to back rivet, I do!! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Berry Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:30 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Tailcone Question I would second Rene's recommendation to back rivet the tail cone. I was able to back rivet the entire cone, minus about 6 rivets in the narrowest aft-most portion. A suggestion that I have not seen mentioned before is that I would recommend back riveting the F-1047B-R,L and C stiffeners to the F-1075 skin before clecoing the skin to the bulkheads. It is much easier to do this with the skin flat on your bench. Just leave the rivet holes open where the stiffeners cross the bulkheads. I had some concern that I would not be able to get the stiffeners into the corresponding bulkhead slots, but with a little flexing of the stiffeners it worked out fine. And saved a lot of riveting inside the tail cone. Jim Berry 40482 N15JB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235187#235187 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.