Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:19 AM - Re: Re: Battery Service report (Bob and Karen Brown)
2. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: Spins (Danny Riggs)
3. 06:42 AM - Tach Time (jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com)
4. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Spins (Vernon Smith)
5. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Spins (pilotdds@aol.com)
6. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: Spins (linn)
7. 08:25 AM - Re: Re: Spins (linn)
8. 08:48 AM - Re: Tach Time (Jesse Saint)
9. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: Spins (C.R. Usery)
10. 10:55 AM - Re: Spins (Bob Turner)
11. 11:07 AM - Re: Tach Time (Bob Turner)
12. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: Spins (David McNeill)
13. 11:16 AM - Re: Re: Spins (David McNeill)
14. 03:00 PM - Re: Re: Battery Service report (Rob Kermanj)
15. 04:05 PM - RV-10 Empennage, Wings and Tools For Sale (jeremy black)
16. 04:59 PM - Re: Tach Time (Chris)
17. 05:12 PM - Re: Re: Tach Time (Kelly McMullen)
18. 05:43 PM - Re: Spins (Stephen Blank)
19. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: Spins (Roger Standley)
20. 07:01 PM - Phase I (partner14)
21. 07:21 PM - Re: Phase I (Larry Rosen)
22. 07:37 PM - Re: Phase I (David McNeill)
23. 07:59 PM - Re: Phase I (Robin Marks)
24. 08:03 PM - Re: Phase I (Tim Olson)
25. 08:47 PM - Re: Phase I (pascal)
26. 08:55 PM - Where do I start? (rvdave)
27. 09:43 PM - Re: Where do I start? (Bob and Karen Brown)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Battery Service report |
I agree with that observation 100%. I also have had acid spills in previous
airplanes. Not something I want to repeat.
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 10:32 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Battery Service report
Is it gas recombinant or standard lead-acid with caps?
After having acid spill in a Piper Archer a few years ago, I would not use
anything except a sealed unit. With the elevator push-rod under the battery
in the RV10 I would never use a std lead-acid-capped unit.
--------
OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
Q/B Kit - wiring and FWF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238271#238271
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Has the FAA changed the way training is done? I remember having to do "reco
very from unusual attitudes" (I think that it was called) that definately r
equired recovery from stall/spins. It was a real rush as your vision narrow
ed down to just the prop as it appeared to stand still and the plane appear
ed to rotate around the prop! We stalled and then spun c-150s=2C C-172s and
Warriers. Most of these were full on spins. This was for the private and t
hen instrument airplane ratings. None of this with a parachute. It was real
ly great training and lots of fun. This occured in the 1970 thru 1980s. D
uring those times I trained with several different instructors. It really g
ave you the confidence and skills to recover from "unusual attitudes". Aga
in=2C I'm a bit puzzled by the questions about spins. Are they not being t
aught anymore? Thanks=2C Dan P.S. I'm meeting my son-in-law in Vegas next
weekend and we are signed up for sailplanes on Saturday at the Jean=2C NV
airport. Anybody done that? Is it a rush?
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Spins
> From: bobturner@alum.rpi.edu
> Date: Tue=2C 7 Apr 2009 20:11:24 -0700
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I haven't spun a -10 either. All spins start with a wing stall. So for in
cipient spins (spin entries)=2C immediate stick forward=2C plus opposite ru
dder (resist the temptation to roll level with ailerons) should keep you fr
om entering a fully developed spin. Recovery from the latter is not guarant
eed.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238259#238259
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_
Mobile1_042009
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I have dug on this topic and can not find an answer. So it might be so
obvious that I am not getting it, fortunately I have you guys!
We a GRT EIS, and a Hobbs meter (oil pressure activated). Per the GRT EIS
manual we can select a RPM where the unit begins to count 'tach time',
however this is an on-off switch, in other words when the RPM rises above
1500 RPM the counter starts, below 1500 RPM it doesn't count. This
differs from a mechanical tach which is proportional to a certain RPM.
In a mechanical tach that records tach time, the base RPM is usually set
to 2300 RPM. This means that when the engine is running at 2300 RPM for 1
hour the tach time will indicate 1 hour, if the engine RPM is set to 2000
rpm for 1 hour the tach time will indicate .87 hours, if the engine RPM is
set to 2700 rpm for 1 hour the tach time will indicate 1.17 hours.
How are other handling this? Is there a regulation? What RPM value seems
reasonable? What values are being recorded in engine, prop, and airframe
logs?
BTW, if you are using a Westach RPM generator and a GRT EIS, the pulses
per revolution need to be set to 11, not 0, 1, or 2 as the documentation
indicates.
Thanks, Jason Kreidler
It runs, weight and balance complete, transition training done, doing
minor finishing and calibrations, waiting on paperwork.
#40617 N44YH
Sheboygan Falls, WI
(4) Partner Build
Jason Kreidler
Kyle Hokel
Tony Kolar
Wayne Elsner
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
As of 1997 (or some time before then) spins were not required training for
getting a private license. Stalls=2C stall identification and stall recover
still were. The thinking was to spin a plane it must first be in a stall s
o if you never get into a stall or can identify it early and recover is a s
afer strategy than knowing how to recover from a fully developed stall. Esp
ecially in low level flying turn/spin situations such as turning base to fi
nal.
Vern Smith (#324 finishing)
do not archive
From: jdriggs49@msn.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Spins
Has the FAA changed the way training is done? I remember having to do "reco
very from unusual attitudes" (I think that it was called) that definately r
equired recovery from stall/spins. It was a real rush as your vision narrow
ed down to just the prop as it appeared to stand still and the plane appear
ed to rotate around the prop! We stalled and then spun c-150s=2C C-172s and
Warriers. Most of these were full on spins. This was for the private and t
hen instrument airplane ratings. None of this with a parachute. It was real
ly great training and lots of fun. This occured in the 1970 thru 1980s. D
uring those times I trained with several different instructors. It really g
ave you the confidence and skills to recover from "unusual attitudes". Aga
in=2C I'm a bit puzzled by the questions about spins. Are they not being t
aught anymore? Thanks=2C Dan P.S. I'm meeting my son-in-law in Vegas next
weekend and we are signed up for sailplanes on Saturday at the Jean=2C NV
airport. Anybody done that? Is it a rush?
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Spins
> From: bobturner@alum.rpi.edu
> Date: Tue=2C 7 Apr 2009 20:11:24 -0700
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I haven't spun a -10 either. All spins start with a wing stall. So for in
cipient spins (spin entries)=2C immediate stick forward=2C plus opposite ru
dder (resist the temptation to roll level with ailerons) should keep you fr
om entering a fully developed spin. Recovery from the latter is not guarant
eed.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238259#238259
>
>
>
======================
>
>
>
Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry Check it
out.
_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_
Mobile1_042009
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Warriors are not certified for spins so you are a test pilot-congratulations
.Spin training is required only for CFIs .It is optional for anyone.Spin awa
reness and avoidence is however required.As an active cfi I support this and
see little value in scaring some otherwise excellent pilotsThe best pilots
use there superior judgement to avoid situations where they must use there s
uperior skills.just my 2 cents.From: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49@msn.com>
Sent: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 6:40 am
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Spins
Has the FAA changed the way=C2-training is done? I remember having to do "
recovery from unusual attitudes" (I think that it was called) that definatel
y required recovery from stall/spins. It was a real rush as your vision narr
owed down to just the prop as it appeared to stand still and the plane appea
red to rotate around the prop! We stalled and then spun c-150s, C-172s and W
arriers. Most of these were full on spins. This was for the private and then
instrument airplane ratings. None of this with a parachute. It was really g
reat training and lots of fun. This occured in the 1970 thru 1980s. =C2-
=C2-During those times I trained with several different instructors. It re
ally gave you the confidence and skills to recover from "unusual attitudes".
=C2- Again, I'm a bit puzzled by the questions about spins. =C2-Are they
not being taught anymore? Thanks, Dan=C2-=C2- P.S. I'm meeting my son-i
n-law in Vegas next weekend and we are signed up for sailplanes on Saturday
at the Jean, NV
airport. Anybody done that? Is it a rush?
=C2-
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Spins
> From: bobturner@alum.rpi.edu
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 20:11:24 -0700
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I haven't spun a -10 either. All spins start with a wing stall. So for inc
ipient spins (spin entries), immediate stick forward, plus opposite rudder (
resist the temptation to roll level with ailerons) should keep you from ente
ring a fully developed spin. Recovery from the latter is not guaranteed.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238259#238259
>
>
>
======================
>
>
>
Rediscover Hotmail=C2=AE: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry Check i
t out.
-= - The RV10-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB
FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Danny, I disagree. See below.
pilotdds@aol.com wrote:
> Warriors are not certified for spins so you are a test
> pilot-congratulations.
Didn't know that ... I learned something!!!
> Spin training is required only for CFIs .It is optional for
> anyone.Spin awareness and avoidence is however required.
That's all well and good, as long as you're in the 'instructional
environment'.
> As an active cfi I support this and see little value in scaring some
> otherwise excellent pilots
IMHO, squashing the fear is the job of a good instructor. Good
preparation on the ground works wonders in the air. But I agree,
scaring the student (or anyone else) is not a good teaching tool. Spins
aren't something to be afraid of.
> The best pilots use there superior judgement to avoid situations where
> they must use there superior skills.
And how does a student get there? I don't think there's a pilot out
there that hasn't done something stupid and lived to tell the tale. (I
don't consider the dead ones in that category 'pilots' anymore). The
wrong time to 'experiment' with spin recovery is when you get into one
accidentally. I got my license in an AA-1B (which I still own) and it's
placarded against spins. I had to check out in another plane to get my
spin training as a student .... because if I did something stupid in the
Grumman, which really does want to spin ..... I wanted to know what it
was all about.
> just my 2 cents.From: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49@msn.com>
And I'll add mine. In a few decades, we should have a fortune!!!
(before taxes!)
Linn
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Vernon Smith wrote:
> As of 1997 (or some time before then) spins were not required training
> for getting a private license. Stalls, stall identification and stall
> recover still were. The thinking was to spin a plane it must first be
> in a stall so if you never get into a stall or can identify it early
> and recover is a safer strategy than knowing how to recover from a
> fully developed stall.
Twice last year pilots got too slow on final and one spun in ..... both
survived but the airplane was totaled. The other one was low enough
that it pancaked before the nose could drop ...... and that one was
rebuildable. But I would have to agree that neither had sufficient
altitude to recover from a spin ...... but they got there anyway.
> Especially in low level flying turn/spin situations such as turning
> base to final.
Or stretching the glide on final by pulling up on the yoke (or stick ;-)
) instead of adding power.
>
> Vern Smith (#324 finishing)
>
> do not archive
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I'm not sure where the threshold is on the AFS and Dynon units, but
they are preset for something that does as you indicate. The on-off
switch sounds more like a Hobbs time, which on the Dynon and AFS,
counts real time that the engine is running. I know I'm not a lot of
help, but I haven't done much with the GRT. There are more experts on
the list that can help with that, but since there were no other
responses yet, I thought I'd chime in. It might we worth a call to GRT.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Apr 8, 2009, at 9:31 AM, jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com wrote:
>
> I have dug on this topic and can not find an answer. So it might be
> so obvious that I am not getting it, fortunately I have you guys!
>
> We a GRT EIS, and a Hobbs meter (oil pressure activated). Per the
> GRT EIS manual we can select a RPM where the unit begins to count
> 'tach time', however this is an on-off switch, in other words when
> the RPM rises above 1500 RPM the counter starts, below 1500 RPM it
> doesn't count. This differs from a mechanical tach which is
> proportional to a certain RPM.
>
> In a mechanical tach that records tach time, the base RPM is usually
> set to 2300 RPM. This means that when the engine is running at 2300
> RPM for 1 hour the tach time will indicate 1 hour, if the engine RPM
> is set to 2000 rpm for 1 hour the tach time will indicate .87 hours,
> if the engine RPM is set to 2700 rpm for 1 hour the tach time will
> indicate 1.17 hours.
>
> How are other handling this? Is there a regulation? What RPM value
> seems reasonable? What values are being recorded in engine, prop,
> and airframe logs?
>
> BTW, if you are using a Westach RPM generator and a GRT EIS, the
> pulses per revolution need to be set to 11, not 0, 1, or 2 as the
> documentation indicates.
>
> Thanks, Jason Kreidler
>
> It runs, weight and balance complete, transition training done,
> doing minor finishing and calibrations, waiting on paperwork.
>
> #40617 N44YH
> Sheboygan Falls, WI
> (4) Partner Build
> Jason Kreidler
> Kyle Hokel
> Tony Kolar
> Wayne Elsner
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Another interesting note - The warrior is spin rated in Canada just not cer
tified to do so in the United States. I took my private pilot training in a
warrior in Washington state (right next to canada). We toyed with the idea
of going into Canada and getting some spin training but did not. My plan i
s to go and get some arobatic training after our 10 is completed. The more
knowlege the better.
-
Charles
-
do not archive
--- On Wed, 4/8/09, pilotdds@aol.com <pilotdds@aol.com> wrote:
From: pilotdds@aol.com <pilotdds@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Spins
Warriors are not certified for spins so you are a test pilot-congratulation
s.Spin training is required only for CFIs .It is optional for anyone.Spin a
wareness and avoidence is however required.As an active cfi I support this
and see little value in scaring some otherwise excellent pilotsThe best pil
ots use there superior judgement to avoid situations where they must use th
ere superior skills.just my 2 cents.From: Danny Riggs <jdriggs49@msn.com>
Sent: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 6:40 am
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Spins
#yiv1199578476 #AOLMsgPart_2_b9a73b65-1511-4657-90bb-9f735cb24f4d .hmmessag
e P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv1199578476 #AOLMsgPart_2_b9a73b65-1511-4657
-90bb-9f735cb24f4d body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}
Has the FAA changed the way-training is done? I remember having to do "re
covery from unusual attitudes" (I think that it was called) that definately
required recovery from stall/spins. It was a real rush as your vision narr
owed down to just the prop as it appeared to stand still and the plane appe
ared to rotate around the prop! We stalled and then spun c-150s, C-172s and
Warriers. Most of these were full on spins. This was for the private and t
hen instrument airplane ratings. None of this with a parachute. It was real
ly great training and lots of fun. This occured in the 1970 thru 1980s. -
-During those times I trained with several different instructors. It real
ly gave you the confidence and skills to recover from "unusual attitudes".
-=2 0Again, I'm a bit puzzled by the questions about spins. -Are they
not being taught anymore? Thanks, Dan-- P.S. I'm meeting my son-in-law
in Vegas next weekend and we are signed up for sailplanes on Saturday at t
he
Jean, NV airport. Anybody done that? Is it a rush?
-
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Spins
> From: bobturner@alum.rpi.edu
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 20:11:24 -0700
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I haven't spun a -10 either. All spins start with a wing stall. So for in
cipient spins (spin entries), immediate stick forward, plus opposite rudder
(resist the temptation to roll level with ailerons) should keep you from e
ntering a fully developed spin. Recovery from the latter is not guaranteed.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238259#238259
>
>
>
======================
>
>
>
Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry Check it
out.
et=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
://forums.matronics.com
lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=3D======================
New Deals on Dell Netbooks - Now starting at $299
=0A=0A=0A
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
My two cents:
1. Spin training has not been required for a private certificate since the 1970's
(or maybe earlier?).
2. A CFI can give you spin training (in a plane certified for it), no parachutes
required.
3. As a cfi I have always strongly suggested, and all my students have agreed to,
doing a few spin entries (one or two turns) prior to solo stall practice. Just
to see what they look like. Some students, on seeing the ground fill the windscreen,
react by wanting to pull back, when of course they need to push forward.
One or two spins is all it takes for them to recognize it, and react properly.
A proper pre-flight ground briefing - so they know what to expect - takes
most of the fear factor away.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238349#238349
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
This question is, really, of academic interest only, since the "times" are not
used for anything (for not-for-hire, Part 91 operations). e.g., there is no requirement
(in the US, at least) to overhaul at TBO, nor are 100 hr inspections
required, etc.
I seem to recall, somewhere in an advisory circular, that operators who are required
to have 100 hr inspections may use tach time or Hobbs, their choice, but
I cannot recall exactly where I read that.
You need to keep reliable records; but a long as it's clear what you're recording
(e.g., time with the engine over 1500 rpm) it should be okay.
Now, personal flying time - such as time logged to meet the experience required
for a new rating - is defined in the FARs as "block to block", e.g., the actual
time from which the aircraft first moves, with the intent of flying (taxing
to the fuel pump doesn't count), until it comes to a stop at its tiedown, hangar,
fuel island, etc., after landing.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238351#238351
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Too slow on final with the controls crossed will invert the aircraft in the
blink of an eye.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Spins
Vernon Smith wrote:
As of 1997 (or some time before then) spins were not required training for
getting a private license. Stalls, stall identification and stall recover
still were. The thinking was to spin a plane it must first be in a stall so
if you never get into a stall or can identify it early and recover is a
safer strategy than knowing how to recover from a fully developed stall.
Twice last year pilots got too slow on final and one spun in ..... both
survived but the airplane was totaled. The other one was low enough that it
pancaked before the nose could drop ...... and that one was rebuildable.
But I would have to agree that neither had sufficient altitude to recover
from a spin ...... but they got there anyway.
Especially in low level flying turn/spin situations such as turning base to
final.
Or stretching the glide on final by pulling up on the yoke (or stick ;-) )
instead of adding power.
Vern Smith (#324 finishing)
do not archive
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
A proper briefing is always required. I once took an Instrument student and
coaxed him into cross controlled stalls without the hood then under the
hood. He was capable of hooded recovery of the snap to inverted and the
start of a spin, a recovery from the dive. I cautioned that he needed to do
it right or he might kill us both. I an writing this so he did it right.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 10:54 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Spins
My two cents:
1. Spin training has not been required for a private certificate since the
1970's (or maybe earlier?).
2. A CFI can give you spin training (in a plane certified for it), no
parachutes required.
3. As a cfi I have always strongly suggested, and all my students have
agreed to, doing a few spin entries (one or two turns) prior to solo stall
practice. Just to see what they look like. Some students, on seeing the
ground fill the windscreen, react by wanting to pull back, when of course
they need to push forward. One or two spins is all it takes for them to
recognize it, and react properly. A proper pre-flight ground briefing - so
they know what to expect - takes most of the fear factor away.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238349#238349
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Battery Service report |
Ther is no acid to spill. This is a wheel chair battery used for indoors.
do not archive
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 1:32 AM, AirMike <Mikeabel@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> Is it gas recombinant or standard lead-acid with caps?
>
> After having acid spill in a Piper Archer a few years ago, I would not use anything
except a sealed unit. With the elevator push-rod under the battery in the
RV10 I would never use a std lead-acid-capped unit.
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
> Q/B Kit - wiring and FWF
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238271#238271
>
>
--
Rob Kermanj
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | RV-10 Empennage, Wings and Tools For Sale |
I have a RV 10 empennage completed less fiberglass.- The wings are skinne
d on the top and the leading edges are done.- The fuel tanks are complete
except for the baffles and sending units. The ailerons are complete except
for the trailing edges.- One flap is complete- except for trailing edg
e. The other is halfway.- All parts have been etched then primed with Mar
hide aluminum primer.- I did a very good job deburing all holes, skins, r
ibs etc. Quality craftsmanship.- Always kept in climate controlled enviro
nment until last month.- It is still stored inside.- All tools used for
assembly are also for sale.- I'm asking Vans price for the parts $12,540
you get 670 hours of labor for free.- I have logs.- Tools to be sold a
t 75% of Avery/Cleveland price.- I'm located in west central Indiana.-
Pictures here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rv10builder/
Jeremy Black
rv10builder@yahoo.com
765-720-2434
=0A=0A=0A
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I had a C-35 Bonanza in which we put an electronics International Tach.
I think it began counting at 1200 rpm and up. We basically used its
time counter to determine when engine TBO was reached. I plan something
to the same effect with the GRT EIS. As Bob Turner said its up to you,
you can run your engine to what ever time you want.
-Chris
#40072
----- Original Message -----
From: jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 9:31 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Tach Time
I have dug on this topic and can not find an answer. So it might be
so obvious that I am not getting it, fortunately I have you guys!
We a GRT EIS, and a Hobbs meter (oil pressure activated). Per the GRT
EIS manual we can select a RPM where the unit begins to count 'tach
time', however this is an on-off switch, in other words when the RPM
rises above 1500 RPM the counter starts, below 1500 RPM it doesn't
count. This differs from a mechanical tach which is proportional to a
certain RPM.
In a mechanical tach that records tach time, the base RPM is usually
set to 2300 RPM. This means that when the engine is running at 2300 RPM
for 1 hour the tach time will indicate 1 hour, if the engine RPM is set
to 2000 rpm for 1 hour the tach time will indicate .87 hours, if the
engine RPM is set to 2700 rpm for 1 hour the tach time will indicate
1.17 hours.
How are other handling this? Is there a regulation? What RPM value
seems reasonable? What values are being recorded in engine, prop, and
airframe logs?
BTW, if you are using a Westach RPM generator and a GRT EIS, the
pulses per revolution need to be set to 11, not 0, 1, or 2 as the
documentation indicates.
Thanks, Jason Kreidler
It runs, weight and balance complete, transition training done, doing
minor finishing and calibrations, waiting on paperwork.
#40617 N44YH
Sheboygan Falls, WI
(4) Partner Build
Jason Kreidler
Kyle Hokel
Tony Kolar
Wayne Elsner
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Maintenance is determined by regulation on "flight time". That can be
recording tach, hobbs, hobbs controlled by an airspeed switch or whatever.
There are requirements for entering total time, time in service, etc for
maintenance purposes. Perhaps using an airspeed switch to turn on the EFIS
recording at say 50kts would suffice.
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
> This question is, really, of academic interest only, since the "times" are
> not used for anything (for not-for-hire, Part 91 operations). e.g., there is
> no requirement (in the US, at least) to overhaul at TBO, nor are 100 hr
> inspections required, etc.
>
> I seem to recall, somewhere in an advisory circular, that operators who are
> required to have 100 hr inspections may use tach time or Hobbs, their
> choice, but I cannot recall exactly where I read that.
>
> You need to keep reliable records; but a long as it's clear what you're
> recording (e.g., time with the engine over 1500 rpm) it should be okay.
>
> Now, personal flying time - such as time logged to meet the experience
> required for a new rating - is defined in the FARs as "block to block",
> e.g., the actual time from which the aircraft first moves, with the intent
> of flying (taxing to the fuel pump doesn't count), until it comes to a stop
> at its tiedown, hangar, fuel island, etc., after landing.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238351#238351
>
>
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
You will enjoy your spin training in the C-172, it is very predictable
and can be fun. Don't just spin, plan to exit on a specific heading,
challenge yourself to get good. For a non-aerobatic pilot, the goals are
two: Learn what it feels like to cause a plane to spin (they dont spin, we
spin them) and know what it takes to exit a spin safely without detaching
the wings on a rapid pull out from the new view of the earth in the
windshield. I like just slowing the plane (C-170) down while keeping leve
l
with increasing back pressure (like going too slow in a flat pattern) with
a little rudder input and all of the sudden, the nose drops and it seems
like one wing is pinned and you see your town like never before! Enjoy!
As for the parachute, unless there is an ejection seat, it seems silly to
me, but it is the regs. If you get good at this, entering a spin in your
-10 will not happen.....you will be that much more aware of what you do
after the training.
Steve
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Chad E. Carlson <me@chadcarlson.com> wrote
:
> Hi Jim,
>
> On a related note, I am planning to attend spin training next month
> (weather permitting) at a local, FAA-sanctioned course. We=92ll be spinni
ng a
> C-172, wearing parachutes, etc. I must admit I am a little nervous, but I
> really want to spin for the experience of knowing what it feels and looks
> like first-hand*
>
> *
>
--
Stephen G. Blank, DDS
184 NW Central Park Plaza
Port St. Lucie, FL 34986
772-475-5556 Cell
772-878-7347 Office
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
When this subject comes up, I've wanted to say this, so here goes.
Any good test pilot will put your RV10 through spins, loops and rolls
while in Phase I test. Once in Phase II, such maneuvers are prohibited
unless done in Phase I and specifically noted in your Phase II Operating
Limitations. Does that mean that you could/should go out in your RV10
and do spins, loops and rolls? Are you as good an acrobatic pilot as
your test pilot? These maneuvers done correctly, solo, are well within
the load range of the RV10. These maneuvers done poorly are probably
not! Don't even think about doing spins, loops and rolls and/or other
acrobatic maneuvers in your RV10 unless you have had extensive training
and are proficient and current in other planes. Additionally, be sure
you understand the unique design characteristics of the RV10 and how
these characteristics affect the performance of these maneuvers. That
said...if you want to do acrobatics, do them in a Citabria...they are in
the mission of that airplane. Acrobatics are not in the mission of the
RV10. Oh, but you are worried that you might approach spin conditions
while in your daily flying. Well, maybe practice practice practice
staying well away from those conditions by making early planned
descents, flying larger patterns, making shallow bank turns, staying
coordinated, tuning base and final airspeed to load conditions and
remember that go-arounds are an option if things are not working out.
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: linn<mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Spins
<pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net<mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>>
Danny, I disagree. See below.
pilotdds@aol.com<mailto:pilotdds@aol.com> wrote:
> Warriors are not certified for spins so you are a test
> pilot-congratulations.
Didn't know that ... I learned something!!!
> Spin training is required only for CFIs .It is optional for
> anyone.Spin awareness and avoidence is however required.
That's all well and good, as long as you're in the 'instructional
environment'.
> As an active cfi I support this and see little value in scaring some
> otherwise excellent pilots
IMHO, squashing the fear is the job of a good instructor. Good
preparation on the ground works wonders in the air. But I agree,
scaring the student (or anyone else) is not a good teaching tool.
Spins
aren't something to be afraid of.
> The best pilots use there superior judgement to avoid situations
where
> they must use there superior skills.
And how does a student get there? I don't think there's a pilot out
there that hasn't done something stupid and lived to tell the tale.
(I
don't consider the dead ones in that category 'pilots' anymore). The
wrong time to 'experiment' with spin recovery is when you get into one
accidentally. I got my license in an AA-1B (which I still own) and
it's
placarded against spins. I had to check out in another plane to get
my
spin training as a student .... because if I did something stupid in
the
Grumman, which really does want to spin ..... I wanted to know what it
was all about.
> just my 2 cents.From: Danny Riggs
<jdriggs49@msn.com<mailto:jdriggs49@msn.com>>
And I'll add mine. In a few decades, we should have a fortune!!!
(before taxes!)
Linn
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List<http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?RV10-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Is it possible/legal as a student pilot to be signed off for solo flight in ones
own RV10 during the fly off of phase I? That would enable the checkride to
be performed in the RV10 as well. Cross training with Alex has already been
completed.
A CFI with 350 hours of RV10 time, and 4900 hours total time would be doing the
signoff.
Don
--------
Don A. McDonald
40636
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238421#238421
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Anything is possible
Legal yes
Prudent - probably not
I would think the problem would be with the insurance company. Can you
get insurance for a solo student pilot in the 10?
Larry
do not archive
partner14 wrote:
>
> Is it possible/legal as a student pilot to be signed off for solo flight in ones
own RV10 during the fly off of phase I? That would enable the checkride
to be performed in the RV10 as well. Cross training with Alex has already been
completed.
> A CFI with 350 hours of RV10 time, and 4900 hours total time would be doing the
signoff.
> Don
>
> --------
> Don A. McDonald
> 40636
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238421#238421
>
>
>
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Unless you get a change to the standard operating limitations, only one
pilot is allowed in the RV10 during phase I testing and fly off. A change is
possible maybe , but likely not. N289DT received an inspection by the FAA
Airworthiness employee, not a DAR, and I believe got some exception but then
he had a private license and he still rolled it into a ball five months
after first flight
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of partner14
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 7:00 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Phase I
--> <building_partner@yahoo.com>
Is it possible/legal as a student pilot to be signed off for solo flight in
ones own RV10 during the fly off of phase I? That would enable the
checkride to be performed in the RV10 as well. Cross training with Alex has
already been completed.
A CFI with 350 hours of RV10 time, and 4900 hours total time would be doing
the signoff.
Don
--------
Don A. McDonald
40636
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238421#238421
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Possibly cheaper to buy or partner in a 152/172 than insure a 10 with
minimal experience. Yes RV's are fantastic to fly but that does not make
them slow enough for many student and low time pilots. I know for sure
my 6A gear would NEVER hold up to the punishment a low time pilot can
put on them. Bend the nose wheel ($) and look what hits next. Oh the
prop ($$). Now what's connected to the prop? Engine overhaul anyone
($$$)? I count a total of 6 $ signs.
If you happen to damage your plane not only will it cost you with
insurance etc... but you will be down with no plane to fly till it is
airworthy. Then you will have to rent a plane to fly while yours is
being repaired. If you are going to have to rent anyway why not do it
the other way around. Learn hard lessons in theirs before you fly yours.
While I am not a fan of Cessna's the engineer that designed their main
gears deserves an award.
Please keep in mind that every time you fill out an insurance
application you may have to recite the time you blah, blah, blah... and
placed a claim. It can haunt you for decades.
Robin
Do Not Archive
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Don,
There are some people who I've spoken to since Dan Lloyd put
his plane in the ground and we feel that no matter how much
we cringe to have to say it, we feel responsible to at least
speak up when we think the need arises. I know Stein and
myself both feel like kicking ourselves for not trying
harder with Dan. But anyway, please....don't be in a rush.
Just learn to fly and get your certificate, THEN fly your
RV-10. We will all feel very bad if something tragic happens.
Dan had somewhere around 200 hours when he crashed, and
the afternoon before he died he expressed how much more
of a handful his RV-10 was than that Cherokee he used to
fly.
In response to David, I do not believe Dan had special
permission from the FAA for having a 2nd person aboard.
I believe he knew that what he was doing was wrong.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
partner14 wrote:
>
> Is it possible/legal as a student pilot to be signed off for solo flight in ones
own RV10 during the fly off of phase I? That would enable the checkride
to be performed in the RV10 as well. Cross training with Alex has already been
completed.
> A CFI with 350 hours of RV10 time, and 4900 hours total time would be doing the
signoff.
> Don
>
> --------
> Don A. McDonald
> 40636
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238421#238421
>
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I think you give good advice on this Tim.
Don, get the license in a slow plane, it will give you more time to think
about what you need to do and time to recover from mistakes, Phase 1 is for
testing the plane not the pilot.
You flew with Alex, that is a great start, I suggest you get the license
with the CFI and than keep that CFI and spend a few more hours in your
neighbors RV-10 with that CFI, once the CFI signs you off as being ready
THAN get in your plane and solo around the pattern, remember your testing
the plane, assume something will go wrong when you do the solo and as long
as you and the CFI can say you're ready for anything than you'll be ready.
Pascal
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Phase I
>
> Don,
>
> There are some people who I've spoken to since Dan Lloyd put
> his plane in the ground and we feel that no matter how much
> we cringe to have to say it, we feel responsible to at least
> speak up when we think the need arises. I know Stein and
> myself both feel like kicking ourselves for not trying
> harder with Dan. But anyway, please....don't be in a rush.
> Just learn to fly and get your certificate, THEN fly your
> RV-10. We will all feel very bad if something tragic happens.
> Dan had somewhere around 200 hours when he crashed, and
> the afternoon before he died he expressed how much more
> of a handful his RV-10 was than that Cherokee he used to
> fly.
>
> In response to David, I do not believe Dan had special
> permission from the FAA for having a 2nd person aboard.
> I believe he knew that what he was doing was wrong.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> partner14 wrote:
>>
>> Is it possible/legal as a student pilot to be signed off for solo flight
>> in ones own RV10 during the fly off of phase I? That would enable the
>> checkride to be performed in the RV10 as well. Cross training with Alex
>> has already been completed. A CFI with 350 hours of RV10 time, and 4900
>> hours total time would be doing the signoff.
>> Don
>>
>> --------
>> Don A. McDonald
>> 40636
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238421#238421
>>
>
>
>
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Where do I start? |
I purchased a QB 10 from a prior builder, the empenage is complete to the tips
along with the wings being complete with control linkages. The fuselage is untouched.
I've been going through the plans and I'm indecisive about where to
start on the fuselage because I don't want to get ahead of myself with doing too
much to the floor area. I believe I have to eventually drill the pop rivets
out of the floor area before attaching the steps but would like to get some
feedback from experienced builders who have been to this stage and have some wisdom
about which path to take first...thanks for your help. I don't yet have
the finish kit. I'm stuck and need a little push.
1. Should I first remove pop rivets from floor area and completely loosen to have
access to all areas?
2. Start building control linkages working my way aft?
3. Do as much as I can before attaching tailcone to fuselage?
4. Since steps came with fuselage kit should I attach those first then close floor
area?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Lake City, MI
based at CAD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238437#238437
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Where do I start? |
If it were ME, you bet I'd drill out those pop rivets in the floor
area...just so you see what's in there and can take pics, etc. QB or not,
you need to look in there, and...you'll have to install steps. Also in the
chicken/egg scenario, you need to have a rough idea of what kind of wiring
design you're going to use...and you want to have a way to get wiring where
you want it, be it conduit runs or just secured wire runs. Spend time
planning what kind of electrical or systems installs you want to do and how
you're going to do them. Get as much of that stuff done in subassemblies as
possible.
If it were ME, I'd also do as much as I could before attaching the tailcone,
smaller pieces are easier to work on and you can build some skills up on
them. When you have attached the tailcone and gotten your wiring routes
down, you'll be at the awkward stage I'm at. I can't finish the baggage
door frame until I put the baggage floor in...and the steps get bolted on
under the baggage floor. To tell you the truth, I like the access I
currently have with the baggage floor removed, but the next chores ahead
will be pulling wires through conduits and finishing the battery cable and
static tube runs. When that's done, the steps are going on and the baggage
floor is going in, then the baggage door area can be finished up.
You can build all the pushtubes, if you have not done that.
I hope that gives you some sense of order. Planning and understanding how
you want the finished product to be will keep you from painting yourself
into any corners...which is not hard to do. Ask lots of questions.
Bob
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rvdave
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Where do I start?
I purchased a QB 10 from a prior builder, the empenage is complete to the
tips along with the wings being complete with control linkages. The
fuselage is untouched. I've been going through the plans and I'm indecisive
about where to start on the fuselage because I don't want to get ahead of
myself with doing too much to the floor area. I believe I have to
eventually drill the pop rivets out of the floor area before attaching the
steps but would like to get some feedback from experienced builders who have
been to this stage and have some wisdom about which path to take
first...thanks for your help. I don't yet have the finish kit. I'm stuck
and need a little push.
1. Should I first remove pop rivets from floor area and completely loosen
to have access to all areas?
2. Start building control linkages working my way aft?
3. Do as much as I can before attaching tailcone to fuselage?
4. Since steps came with fuselage kit should I attach those first then
close floor area?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Lake City, MI
based at CAD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238437#238437
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|