Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:52 AM - Re: Defrost fans - Part Deux (n801bh@netzero.com)
2. 04:18 AM - Re: Defrost fans - Part Deux (Bob Leffler)
3. 04:50 AM - Re: Defrost fans - Part Deux (Tim Olson)
4. 05:27 AM - Re: Defrost fans - Part Deux (linn)
5. 05:50 AM - Re: Defrost fans - Part Deux (Les Kearney)
6. 05:34 PM - Engine purchase considerations (Dsyvert@aol.com)
7. 05:49 PM - Re: Defrost fans - Part Deux (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
8. 05:52 PM - Re: Engine purchase considerations (Kelly McMullen)
9. 06:04 PM - Re: Engine purchase considerations (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
10. 06:09 PM - Re: Engine purchase considerations (Bob Leffler)
11. 06:34 PM - Re: Engine purchase considerations (John Cox)
12. 06:46 PM - fiberglass options (Eric_Kallio)
13. 06:49 PM - Re: Engine purchase considerations (davidsoutpost@comcast.net)
14. 07:02 PM - Re: Engine purchase considerations (Robin Marks)
15. 07:08 PM - Re: Engine purchase considerations (Jack Phillips)
16. 07:08 PM - Re: Engine purchase considerations (richard sipp)
17. 07:45 PM - Re: Engine purchase considerations (Dave Leikam)
18. 07:59 PM - final door trim (Dave Leikam)
19. 08:10 PM - Re: fiberglass options (Dave Saylor)
20. 08:11 PM - Re: final door trim (Deems Davis)
21. 08:21 PM - IAS for Pahse 1 without pants/fairings (Deems Davis)
22. 08:35 PM - Re: final door trim (pascal)
23. 08:57 PM - Re: IAS for Pahse 1 without pants/fairings (McGANN, Ron)
24. 09:09 PM - Re: fiberglass options (Lenny Iszak)
25. 09:36 PM - Re: Engine purchase considerations (Jim Berry)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Defrost fans - Part Deux |
I did just that on my V-8 powered Zenith 801. The pic of it is about 20
minutes into the video.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7272451917550730841&hl=en
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Defrost fans - Part Deux
Folks south of the border rarely fly with cockpit cold enough for
frost, only condensation, typically. That is why you are seeing these
answers. I'd think you would want some engine heat, and with your
water cooled engine you could just use an automotive heater core with
some ductwork to get what you want.
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 9:44 PM, linn <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Les Kearney wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hmmm
>>
>> Always one to beat a dead horse, I'll ask a different question.
>>
>> When starting on a cold day (say -15c), when the windows are frosted
up,
>> will moving ambient air (temp -15c) over the windscreen remove frost.
>
> If it's dry. Cold air is typically dry, so it will remove the frost f
rom
> the inside ..... but it may take time.
>
>>
>> When I start my car in similar circumstances, the defroster puts out
warm
>> air ....
>
> I think that's true only after the engine warms up! My new truck puts
out
> cold air when the engi9ne is cold ..... and I think it turns on the ai
r
> conditioner to deliver dryer air ...... but i don't know what it does
when
> the engine warms up.
>>
>> Inquiring minds need to know....
>>
> Oh yeah, go ahead and start a food fight!!! <GR>
> Linn
>>
>> Les
>
>
========================
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1vZSytJTQhAGJdJlVI6BL51vXzy5rSiCdC/
Message 2
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| Subject: | Defrost fans - Part Deux |
My comments are based upon feedback from several folks that are already
flying in that they only crack the heat vents in even really cold weather
because the heat output is more than ample to heat the cabin. My concern
would be that it would be too hot to re-direct to the windshield. With a
radiator, you may have better regulation of the temperature.
Granted in Ohio I haven't had to deal with heavy frost.
Ambient air isn't just from avionics. The front heat vent on the tunnel
should be providing heat that travels up through the panel, in which the
computer fans aid in circulating that warm air upwards towards the
windshield. The question then to ask is at what temperature does this
approach become ineffective?
I don't have any answers or solutions, just more questions.....
bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:22 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Defrost fans - Part Deux
Bob
I will have a Subie under the hood so I will have hot air available. At
least where I fly, a fan moving ambient air would only be moving cold air,
at least until the cabin heat kicked in. Even in my Cherokee it takes a
while for the defroster to have an effect. Those flying in colder climates
might find the "fan" option to be a disappointment.
I have flown in very cold wx where it was difficult for the defroster to
keep up. I am uncertain how a fan only option would have fared.
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: April-28-09 5:46 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Defrost fans - Part Deux
That's a common problem with Cherokee's. Most people will install them with
the slot point towards the window, but it is really supposed to be pointed
away from the window. Of course, on the Cherokee the defroster was heated
air as oppose to what most folks are just using ambient air from under the
console which the temperatures are elevated do to the avionics.
I've thought about using the Cherokee approach, but I suspect that it would
be way too hot to use heated air. I'm not sure that the slots do anything
better than just the standard computer fan that most folks use.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:09 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Defrost fans - Part Deux
Hi
Having given some thought to the defrost fans, I am wondering if a slot
would be more effective. Cars have a long strip that goes across the length
of the windscreen that allows warm air to pass along all sections on the
windscreen.
Would this arrangement be better than having a couple of hot spots on the
dash? I am not sure how to do this but I am wondering about the basic idea
only. Then again, a couple of fans may move so much air that this might be
moot.
My Cherokee has a couple of 3" slots that allow warm air to hit the
windscreen. The "blast" of hot air has caused a slight distortion in the
windscreen - something that may be worth considering as well.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - some assembly required
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Defrost fans - Part Deux |
Absolutely right. Plenty of heat available under the panel year
round. Front heat is enough to burn your foot if you put it on full.
All that air goes under the panel. My EIS was easily at 110F when it
was 10F outside. Not only do you need a vent for defrost (fan) but you
need it to keep avionics cool. It's plenty warm to defrost. I would
NOT duct hot air to the vent or it could easily get too hot on the
10. And, I don't live in a hot area. If the front seat people have
adequate heat, so will the defrost.
On Apr 29, 2009, at 6:19 AM, "Bob Leffler" <rv@thelefflers.com> wrote:
>
> My comments are based upon feedback from several folks that are
> already
> flying in that they only crack the heat vents in even really cold
> weather
> because the heat output is more than ample to heat the cabin. My
> concern
> would be that it would be too hot to re-direct to the windshield.
> With a
> radiator, you may have better regulation of the temperature.
>
> Granted in Ohio I haven't had to deal with heavy frost.
>
> Ambient air isn't just from avionics. The front heat vent on the
> tunnel
> should be providing heat that travels up through the panel, in which
> the
> computer fans aid in circulating that warm air upwards towards the
> windshield. The question then to ask is at what temperature does this
> approach become ineffective?
>
> I don't have any answers or solutions, just more questions.....
>
> bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:22 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Defrost fans - Part Deux
>
>
> Bob
>
> I will have a Subie under the hood so I will have hot air available.
> At
> least where I fly, a fan moving ambient air would only be moving
> cold air,
> at least until the cabin heat kicked in. Even in my Cherokee it
> takes a
> while for the defroster to have an effect. Those flying in colder
> climates
> might find the "fan" option to be a disappointment.
>
> I have flown in very cold wx where it was difficult for the
> defroster to
> keep up. I am uncertain how a fan only option would have fared.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
> Sent: April-28-09 5:46 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Defrost fans - Part Deux
>
>
> That's a common problem with Cherokee's. Most people will install
> them with
> the slot point towards the window, but it is really supposed to be
> pointed
> away from the window. Of course, on the Cherokee the defroster was
> heated
> air as oppose to what most folks are just using ambient air from
> under the
> console which the temperatures are elevated do to the avionics.
>
> I've thought about using the Cherokee approach, but I suspect that
> it would
> be way too hot to use heated air. I'm not sure that the slots do
> anything
> better than just the standard computer fan that most folks use.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:09 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Defrost fans - Part Deux
>
>
> Hi
>
> Having given some thought to the defrost fans, I am wondering if a
> slot
> would be more effective. Cars have a long strip that goes across the
> length
> of the windscreen that allows warm air to pass along all sections on
> the
> windscreen.
>
> Would this arrangement be better than having a couple of hot spots
> on the
> dash? I am not sure how to do this but I am wondering about the
> basic idea
> only. Then again, a couple of fans may move so much air that this
> might be
> moot.
>
> My Cherokee has a couple of 3" slots that allow warm air to hit the
> windscreen. The "blast" of hot air has caused a slight distortion in
> the
> windscreen - something that may be worth considering as well.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> #40643 - some assembly required
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Defrost fans - Part Deux |
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Folks south of the border rarely fly with cockpit cold enough for
> frost, only condensation, typically.
That's true ...... but some of us down south have experience up nawth.
That is why you are seeing these
> answers. I'd think you would want some engine heat, and with your
> water cooled engine you could just use an automotive heater core with
> some ductwork to get what you want.
Even down south we have a few cold days ..... usually on weekends when
we're flying for food, and we use the defrosters to keep the3 windshield
clear of that hot moist air that just sat down. <GR>
The point I was making was that the place on the windshield where the
heated air hits will distort over time. My Grumman, which has not spent
a whole lot of time out of Florida, has that distortion. The problem is
that you're trying to heat the rest of the airplane with the hottest air
you can get .... and that same heat is bouncing off the windshield.
Maybe having a mixer with cooler air would work if you go with the
heater core method. Melting frost on the outside of the windshield is
problematic ..... and a spray bottle with some de-ice fluid would be
better. I don't know, never tried it. Just a thought.
Linn
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 9:44 PM, linn <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>> Les Kearney wrote:
>>>
>>> Hmmm
>>>
>>> Always one to beat a dead horse, I'll ask a different question.
>>>
>>> When starting on a cold day (say -15c), when the windows are frosted up,
>>> will moving ambient air (temp -15c) over the windscreen remove frost.
>> If it's dry. Cold air is typically dry, so it will remove the frost from
>> the inside ..... but it may take time.
>>
>>> When I start my car in similar circumstances, the defroster puts out warm
>>> air ....
>> I think that's true only after the engine warms up! My new truck puts out
>> cold air when the engi9ne is cold ..... and I think it turns on the air
>> conditioner to deliver dryer air ...... but i don't know what it does when
>> the engine warms up.
>>> Inquiring minds need to know....
>>>
>> Oh yeah, go ahead and start a food fight!!! <GR>
>> Linn
>>> Les
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Defrost fans - Part Deux |
Hi Kelly
I do have a heat exchanger, driven off the water system, that provides heat.
I just couldn't see how moving cold air on the windscreen would remove the
kind of frost (not condensation) that I see up here north of the 49th.
When I mentioned this discussion to Joan, my wife, she just laughed and
suggested that people need to come up here and see what real frost is like.
Cheers
Les
PS: How is your -10 coming along?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: April-28-09 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Defrost fans - Part Deux
Folks south of the border rarely fly with cockpit cold enough for
frost, only condensation, typically. That is why you are seeing these
answers. I'd think you would want some engine heat, and with your
water cooled engine you could just use an automotive heater core with
some ductwork to get what you want.
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 9:44 PM, linn <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Les Kearney wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hmmm
>>
>> Always one to beat a dead horse, I'll ask a different question.
>>
>> When starting on a cold day (say -15c), when the windows are frosted up,
>> will moving ambient air (temp -15c) over the windscreen remove frost.
>
> If it's dry. Cold air is typically dry, so it will remove the frost from
> the inside ..... but it may take time.
>
>>
>> When I start my car in similar circumstances, the defroster puts out warm
>> air ....
>
> I think that's true only after the engine warms up! My new truck puts out
> cold air when the engi9ne is cold ..... and I think it turns on the air
> conditioner to deliver dryer air ...... but i don't know what it does when
> the engine warms up.
>>
>> Inquiring minds need to know....
>>
> Oh yeah, go ahead and start a food fight!!! <GR>
> Linn
>>
>> Les
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Engine purchase considerations |
Gang,
My finishing kit should be arriving in a couple weeks, so I'm starting
to think abut the engine. With Van's Sun-N-Fun special and Lycoming's
announced price increase, it seems like now might be the time to purchase the
engine and prop.
Vans (bundled) Vans
Sun-N-Fun After 5/15
Engine $36,150 $39,550
Prop 6,835 6,835 (two blade blended)
Shipping 500 (assume $500)
Other? ??
Total $42,985 $ 46,885 Delta ~$4,000
I do not want high compression engine, so no value added by some other
shops.
The three things I've heard others comment on about Lycoming shops
such as Barrett and AeroSport are:
1) Longer warranty
2) Better customer service
3) More attention to balancing, etc.
I'm not considering an overhauled engine, but maybe I should consider
it. My thoughts on overhauled are:
1) The price savings maybe not be large (I'm thinking 10-25% of a
certified), so with the Van's discounts it does not seem like it would be
worth it. If I was saving $15,000 then it would be a different matter.
2) Re-sale vale for the cost of an RV-10 ~$150k, why save a few
thousand dollars, that may reduce the resale value more.
3) Have not brought up with the better half, but I'm sure she
would say new rather than used (even if zero timed)
I'm not looking for a yes do it or don't do it. I looking for some
comments, considerations and thoughts. Is anyone else thinking the same /
different?
Thanks
Dave Syvertson
40625
Finishing Kit Ordered
**************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
click.net%2Fclk%3B214101948%3B35952020%3Bv)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Defrost fans - Part Deux |
I think the more important point is that if you have frost on the windshield,
you probably have it elsewhere on the aircraft which legally (here in the US
at least) has to be removed before flight so why wouldn't you remove it from the
windscreen at the same time?
You are basically correct though, cold air won't remove the frost from outside
the window but any air warming the windscreen above 32F will eventually clear
an area on it. As previously stated, cold, dry air will remove moisture from
the inside the windscreen. I'm also willing to bet that adequate heat from
the avionics, and off the heat muff, in a standard RV can be generated as fast
as what a liquid cooled engine can generate in cold climates from a cold start
( the time you most likely would need to get rid of frost). Possibly even quicker
given the time it takes to warm up the engine, coolant, and produce noticeable
output from the heater core. My $0.02
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:50 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Defrost fans - Part Deux
Hi Kelly
I do have a heat exchanger, driven off the water system, that provides heat.
I just couldn't see how moving cold air on the windscreen would remove the
kind of frost (not condensation) that I see up here north of the 49th.
When I mentioned this discussion to Joan, my wife, she just laughed and
suggested that people need to come up here and see what real frost is like.
Cheers
Les
PS: How is your -10 coming along?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: April-28-09 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Defrost fans - Part Deux
Folks south of the border rarely fly with cockpit cold enough for
frost, only condensation, typically. That is why you are seeing these
answers. I'd think you would want some engine heat, and with your
water cooled engine you could just use an automotive heater core with
some ductwork to get what you want.
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 9:44 PM, linn <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Les Kearney wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hmmm
>>
>> Always one to beat a dead horse, I'll ask a different question.
>>
>> When starting on a cold day (say -15c), when the windows are frosted up,
>> will moving ambient air (temp -15c) over the windscreen remove frost.
>
> If it's dry. Cold air is typically dry, so it will remove the frost from
> the inside ..... but it may take time.
>
>>
>> When I start my car in similar circumstances, the defroster puts out warm
>> air ....
>
> I think that's true only after the engine warms up! My new truck puts out
> cold air when the engi9ne is cold ..... and I think it turns on the air
> conditioner to deliver dryer air ...... but i don't know what it does when
> the engine warms up.
>>
>> Inquiring minds need to know....
>>
> Oh yeah, go ahead and start a food fight!!! <GR>
> Linn
>>
>> Les
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine purchase considerations |
Other considerations:
You are stuck with Lycoming choice of accessories, e.g. Slick mags,
Skytech starter, Precision RSA injection, stock induction through oil
sump. Barrett can get you cold air induction and your choice of fuel
injection, starter, etc. Perhaps with the savings you can swap for
whatever accessories you want.
You are also stuck with two bladed prop, unless you want to burn your
savings with 3 bladed composite prop from Vans, Hartzell or MT.
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 5:31 PM, <Dsyvert@aol.com> wrote:
> Gang,
>
> My finishing kit should be arriving in a couple weeks, so I'm starting
> to think abut the engine. With Van's Sun-N-Fun special and Lycoming's
> announced price increase, it seems like now might be the time to purchase
> the engine and prop.
>
> Vans(bundled)Vans
> Sun-N-FunAfter 5/15
>
> Engine$36,150$39,550
> Prop 6,8356,835(two blade blended)
> Shipping 500 (assume $500)
> Other???
> Total$42,985$46,885 Delta ~$4,000
>
>
> I do not want high compression engine, so no value added by some other
> shops.
>
> The three things I've heard others comment onaboutLycoming shops such
> as Barrett and AeroSportare:
> 1) Longer warranty
> 2) Better customer service
> 3) More attention to balancing, etc.
>
>
> I'm not considering an overhauled engine, but maybe I should consider
> it. My thoughts on overhauled are:
> 1) The price savings maybe not be large (I'm thinking 10-25% of a
> certified), so with the Van's discounts it does not seem like it would be
> worth it. If I was saving $15,000 then it would be a different matter.
> 2) Re-sale vale for the cost of an RV-10 ~$150k, why save a few
> thousand dollars, that may reduce the resale value more.
> 3) Have not brought up with the better half, but I'm sure she would
> say new rather than used (even if zero timed)
>
> I'm not looking for a yes do it or don't do it. I looking for some
> comments,considerations and thoughts. Is anyone else thinking the same /
> different?
>
> Thanks
> Dave Syvertson
> 40625
> Finishing Kit Ordered
>
>
> ________________________________
> Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Engine purchase considerations |
Bite your tongue on that 150k comment! :) You have the right idea alrea
dy though, look at what you want and what you get from each "deal" and make
sure you are comparing Apples to Apples. With Van's offer you get a grea
t price but it's a stock crate engine from Lycoming. If you want something
that has tighter tolerances and other goodies like balancing, porting, fue
l system upgrade, ignition upgrade, cold air, etc you will have to talk to
one of the authorized building outfits. I went with Barrett for their repu
tation and personal attention to things. Great people, great engine, and
I wouldn't change a thing. Aerosport has a great reputation but I know one
builder that had some "issues" with a rebuilt from them. They ultimately
took care of it by getting them to go with a new X-540 but gave Aerosport t
hem full credit. I also rather give my business to small businesses in the
US, especially in this economy, but that's just my preference.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Dsyvert@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine purchase considerations
Gang,
My finishing kit should be arriving in a couple weeks, so I'm starting
to think abut the engine. With Van's Sun-N-Fun special and Lycoming's annou
nced price increase, it seems like now might be the time to purchase the en
gine and prop.
Vans (bundled) Vans
Sun-N-Fun After 5/15
Engine $36,150 $39,550
Prop 6,835 6,835 (two blade blended)
Shipping 500 (assume $500)
Other? ??
Total $42,985 $ 46,885 Delta ~$4,000
I do not want high compression engine, so no value added by some other
shops.
The three things I've heard others comment on about Lycoming shops such
as Barrett and AeroSport are:
1) Longer warranty
2) Better customer service
3) More attention to balancing, etc.
I'm not considering an overhauled engine, but maybe I should consider i
t. My thoughts on overhauled are:
1) The price savings maybe not be large (I'm thinking 10-25% of a
certified), so with the Van's discounts it does not seem like it would be w
orth it. If I was saving $15,000 then it would be a different matter.
2) Re-sale vale for the cost of an RV-10 ~$150k, why save a few th
ousand dollars, that may reduce the resale value more.
3) Have not brought up with the better half, but I'm sure she woul
d say new rather than used (even if zero timed)
I'm not looking for a yes do it or don't do it. I looking for some comm
ents, considerations and thoughts. Is anyone else thinking the same / diffe
rent?
Thanks
Dave Syvertson
40625
Finishing Kit Ordered
________________________________
/100126575x1220631276x1201390200/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%
2Fclk%3B214101948%3B35952020%3Bv>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Engine purchase considerations |
Dave,
I'm just a few months behind you in the build and have similar questions
floating through my head. I've also got the added complexity of finding
employment before I can order an engine. That still doesn't prevent me from
being well prepared when the time comes.
I believe going with a new engine is probably the best value, especially
when you consider resale. Most of the folks that went with a rebuild ended
up spending 80-90% of new and had a slew of headaches and/or issues that
wouldn't have happened with a new engine.
Clearly the Van's OEM engine is the least expensive way to get a new engine.
I think there is also value in getting an engine from Barrett, AeroSport,
Mattituck, or Lycoming Thunderbolt. I don't question the value these folks
add. These other shops can also run your engine on their test stands
longer. I know one shop that has given out their personal cell phone
numbers. You can't beat that for customer service. Jeff Schans has stated
that Lycoming tech reps will answer any questions that come to them, even on
OEM engines. However, I have no firsthand knowledge of this at the moment.
My situation is that the longer I'm unemployed, the less I'll have in my
budget for an engine and may have to go with the low cost solution as oppose
the best value solution (I'm leaning towards BPE). I'm clearly not in a
situation to take advantage of this deal at the moment. I'm hoping that
there will be something similar at OSH, although it will most likely cost
more.
The other variable you haven't mentioned is getting a certified engine from
Van's. That would cut your phase I time down to 25 hours if you also got a
certified prop combination. Although I don't think that's worth the extra
expense.
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dsyvert@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine purchase considerations
Gang,
My finishing kit should be arriving in a couple weeks, so I'm starting
to think abut the engine. With Van's Sun-N-Fun special and Lycoming's
announced price increase, it seems like now might be the time to purchase
the engine and prop.
Vans (bundled) Vans
Sun-N-Fun After 5/15
Engine $36,150 $39,550
Prop 6,835 6,835 (two blade blended)
Shipping 500 (assume $500)
Other? ??
Total $42,985 $ 46,885 Delta ~$4,000
I do not want high compression engine, so no value added by some other
shops.
The three things I've heard others comment on about Lycoming shops such
as Barrett and AeroSport are:
1) Longer warranty
2) Better customer service
3) More attention to balancing, etc.
I'm not considering an overhauled engine, but maybe I should consider
it. My thoughts on overhauled are:
1) The price savings maybe not be large (I'm thinking 10-25% of a
certified), so with the Van's discounts it does not seem like it would be
worth it. If I was saving $15,000 then it would be a different matter.
2) Re-sale vale for the cost of an RV-10 ~$150k, why save a few
thousand dollars, that may reduce the resale value more.
3) Have not brought up with the better half, but I'm sure she would
say new rather than used (even if zero timed)
I'm not looking for a yes do it or don't do it. I looking for some
comments, considerations and thoughts. Is anyone else thinking the same /
different?
Thanks
Dave Syvertson
40625
Finishing Kit Ordered
_____
Big
p:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214101948%3B35952020%3Bv> savings on
Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!
Message 11
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| Subject: | Engine purchase considerations |
Randy Debauw went with a reconditioned Prop and a rebuilt engine. He
retained his Vans "One Original Engine and One Original Prop" for a day
down the road. As prices go through the roof, prudence grabs many
builder's attention. Tornado season is about to provide a fresh crop of
engines to have rebuilt.
After flying Transcontinental to SNF, I am more convinced than ever that
Barrett's dyno attention and Cold Air induction are features of value
for me. The mating of a Forsling exhaust is icing on the cake. I do
not know of other rebuilders that have offered the improved exhaust
system to couple with the induction improvements. Time should show a
whole stable of satisfied Barrett customers. I know that the Aerosport
crowd is just as dedicated that their decision was right for their
requirements and their budget. Mine are a bit higher and the pain is
going to be muffled by the pleasure of believing the RV-10 was the right
choice. Time has shown the features of the AFS product line helps
dampen some of the purchases.
John
600
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 6:14 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine purchase considerations
Dave,
I'm just a few months behind you in the build and have similar questions
floating through my head. I've also got the added complexity of finding
employment before I can order an engine. That still doesn't prevent me
from being well prepared when the time comes.
I believe going with a new engine is probably the best value, especially
when you consider resale. Most of the folks that went with a rebuild
ended up spending 80-90% of new and had a slew of headaches and/or
issues that wouldn't have happened with a new engine.
Clearly the Van's OEM engine is the least expensive way to get a new
engine.
I think there is also value in getting an engine from Barrett,
AeroSport, Mattituck, or Lycoming Thunderbolt. I don't question the
value these folks add. These other shops can also run your engine on
their test stands longer. I know one shop that has given out their
personal cell phone numbers. You can't beat that for customer service.
Jeff Schans has stated that Lycoming tech reps will answer any questions
that come to them, even on OEM engines. However, I have no firsthand
knowledge of this at the moment.
My situation is that the longer I'm unemployed, the less I'll have in my
budget for an engine and may have to go with the low cost solution as
oppose the best value solution (I'm leaning towards BPE). I'm clearly
not in a situation to take advantage of this deal at the moment. I'm
hoping that there will be something similar at OSH, although it will
most likely cost more.
The other variable you haven't mentioned is getting a certified engine
from Van's. That would cut your phase I time down to 25 hours if you
also got a certified prop combination. Although I don't think that's
worth the extra expense.
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dsyvert@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine purchase considerations
Gang,
My finishing kit should be arriving in a couple weeks, so I'm
starting to think abut the engine. With Van's Sun-N-Fun special and
Lycoming's announced price increase, it seems like now might be the time
to purchase the engine and prop.
Vans (bundled) Vans
Sun-N-Fun After 5/15
Engine $36,150 $39,550
Prop 6,835 6,835 (two blade blended)
Shipping 500 (assume $500)
Other? ??
Total $42,985 $ 46,885 Delta ~$4,000
I do not want high compression engine, so no value added by some
other shops.
The three things I've heard others comment on about Lycoming shops
such as Barrett and AeroSport are:
1) Longer warranty
2) Better customer service
3) More attention to balancing, etc.
I'm not considering an overhauled engine, but maybe I should
consider it. My thoughts on overhauled are:
1) The price savings maybe not be large (I'm thinking 10-25% of
a certified), so with the Van's discounts it does not seem like it would
be worth it. If I was saving $15,000 then it would be a different
matter.
2) Re-sale vale for the cost of an RV-10 ~$150k, why save a few
thousand dollars, that may reduce the resale value more.
3) Have not brought up with the better half, but I'm sure she
would say new rather than used (even if zero timed)
I'm not looking for a yes do it or don't do it. I looking for some
comments, considerations and thoughts. Is anyone else thinking the same
/ different?
Thanks
Dave Syvertson
40625
Finishing Kit Ordered
________________________________
Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | fiberglass options |
Posted this on the VAF site as well but want to catch some more of the group. For
the finish kit has anyone gone with after market fiberglass? I am using Sam
James cowl and plenum, but what about wheel pants and fairings? I have checked
out Fairings etc, just trying to see what else is out there with better quality
than the Vans fiberglass I have received in the previous kits.
Eric Kallio
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242000#242000
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Engine purchase considerations |
There are alternatives to buying new.=C2- I purchased my=C2-2001 =C2-
IO-540 V4A5 from Wentworth for $13,500.=C2- 461 total hours since new and
only a little over 100 hours since factory serviced for the crankshaft AD.
=C2- That included new bearings, rings, ect.=C2- The case inspection wa
s under $450 including shipping.=C2- The crank, rods, and crank gear=C2
-inspection=C2-with the flange straightening=C2-was $950 with shippin
g.=C2- The gasket/seal set and a new set of rod bearings=C2- is going t
o run me about=C2-$500.=C2- I just freshened up the cylinders and valve
s.=C2- I will reuse the main bearings,,,,they have only 100 hours on them
.=C2- Bottom line is my engine will be practically new for about a $16,00
0 investment with the accessories.=C2- Thats less than half of Vans price
.=C2- There are deals out there for builders on a budget such as myself t
hat are willing to go this route.=C2- Granted I would have preferred=C2
-to write a check to vans for a brand new set-up, but my bank account wou
ld not allow that. :)=C2- =C2-=C2-
----- Original Message -----
From: Dsyvert@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:31:29 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RV10-List: Engine purchase considerations
Gang,
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-My finishing kit should be arriving in a couple wee
ks, so I'm starting to think abut the engine. With Van's Sun-N-Fun special
and Lycoming's announced price increase, it seems like now might be the tim
e to purchase the engine and prop.=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-Vans=C2-(bundled)=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-Vans
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-Sun-N-Fun=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-After 5/15=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-Engine=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-$36,150=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-$39,550
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-Prop=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-6,835=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-6,835=C2-=C2
-(two blade blended)
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-Shipping=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2- 500 (assume $500)
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-Other?=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-??
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Total=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-$42,985=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-$=C2-46,885=C2- Delta ~$4,000
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-I do not want high compression engine, so no value
added by some other shops.
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-The three things I've heard others comment on=C2-
about=C2-Lycoming shops such as Barrett and AeroSport=C2-are:
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-1) =C2-Longer warranty
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-2) =C2-Better customer se
rvice
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-3) =C2-More attention to
balancing, etc.
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-I'm not considering an overhauled engine, but maybe
I should consider it. My thoughts on overhauled are:
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-1)=C2- The price savings
maybe not be large (I'm thinking 10-25% of a certified), so with the Van's
discounts it does not seem like it would be worth it. If I was saving $15,0
00 then it would be a different matter.
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-2)=C2- Re-sale vale for t
he cost of an RV-10 ~$150k, why save a few thousand dollars, that may reduc
e the resale value more.
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-3)=C2- Have not brought u
p with the better half, but I'm sure she would say new rather than used (ev
en if zero timed)
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-I'm not looking for a yes do it or don't do it. I l
ooking for some comments,=C2-considerations and thoughts. Is anyone else
thinking the same / different?
Thanks
Dave Syvertson
40625
Finishing Kit Ordered
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
==
Message 14
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| Subject: | Engine purchase considerations |
Dave,
I have to second John's comments on the BPE/Cold
Induction/Forsling combination. My power plant is awesome. The BPE
people were fantastic to work with. I also have an 0-360 by Aerosport
what has run flawlessly. Like Michael I like keeping the $ in the US if
one can and with the exchange rate (at the time I made my purchase) made
the BPE less expensive than the Aerosport when considering custom paint
& cold induction. I never really took a hard look at the few other well
regarded builders but I do remember that in my configuration (wanting a
premium Cold Induction unit) BPE was at or below all the other builders
at the time. One comforting option BPE provided was extra bench time to
break in the engine. While I did pay for that time it gave me peace of
mind knowing that the engine was exercised more than most by
professionals. I can't say enough good things about BPE and their
customer service. They even personally delivered my engine as we were on
one of their employees routes. Cost for hand delivery $0.00.
As stated before make sure you are comparing Fuji apples to
Fuji apples.
http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/engine.htm
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dsyvert@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 5:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine purchase considerations
Gang,
My finishing kit should be arriving in a couple weeks, so I'm
starting to think abut the engine. With Van's Sun-N-Fun special and
Lycoming's announced price increase, it seems like now might be the time
to purchase the engine and prop.
Vans (bundled) Vans
Sun-N-Fun After 5/15
Engine $36,150 $39,550
Prop 6,835 6,835 (two blade blended)
Shipping 500 (assume $500)
Other? ??
Total $42,985 $ 46,885 Delta ~$4,000
I do not want high compression engine, so no value added by some
other shops.
The three things I've heard others comment on about Lycoming shops
such as Barrett and AeroSport are:
1) Longer warranty
2) Better customer service
3) More attention to balancing, etc.
I'm not considering an overhauled engine, but maybe I should
consider it. My thoughts on overhauled are:
1) The price savings maybe not be large (I'm thinking 10-25% of
a certified), so with the Van's discounts it does not seem like it would
be worth it. If I was saving $15,000 then it would be a different
matter.
2) Re-sale vale for the cost of an RV-10 ~$150k, why save a few
thousand dollars, that may reduce the resale value more.
3) Have not brought up with the better half, but I'm sure she
would say new rather than used (even if zero timed)
I'm not looking for a yes do it or don't do it. I looking for some
comments, considerations and thoughts. Is anyone else thinking the same
/ different?
Thanks
Dave Syvertson
40625
Finishing Kit Ordered
________________________________
Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!
=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214101948%3B35952020%3Bv>
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/29/09 18:03:00
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Engine purchase considerations |
I did somewhat similar Dave,
I bought an O-540 AD5 from an Aztec, with 60 hours SMOH. I had planned to
buy a run out core and overhaul it myself, but this engine had everything
done that I would have done - crankshaft and camshaft overhauled by Aircraft
Specialties, crankcase overhauled by Divco, new Millenium cylinders and
pistons, new Slick mags. All logs intact. Total price, $13,000. The deals
are there, you've just got to look for them. My goal is to build a good
solid IFR capable RV-10 for under $100,000.
Jack Phillips
#40610
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
davidsoutpost@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine purchase considerations
There are alternatives to buying new. I purchased my 2001 IO-540 V4A5 from
Wentworth for $13,500. 461 total hours since new and only a little over 100
hours since factory serviced for the crankshaft AD. That included new
bearings, rings, ect. The case inspection was under $450 including
shipping. The crank, rods, and crank gear inspection with the flange
straightening was $950 with shipping. The gasket/seal set and a new set of
rod bearings is going to run me about $500. I just freshened up the
cylinders and valves. I will reuse the main bearings,,,,they have only 100
hours on them. Bottom line is my engine will be practically new for about a
$16,000 investment with the accessories. Thats less than half of Vans
price. There are deals out there for builders on a budget such as myself
that are willing to go this route. Granted I would have preferred to write
a check to vans for a brand new set-up, but my bank account would not allow
that. :)
----- Original Message -----
From: Dsyvert@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:31:29 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RV10-List: Engine purchase considerations
Gang,
My finishing kit should be arriving in a couple weeks, so I'm starting
to think abut the engine. With Van's Sun-N-Fun special and Lycoming's
announced price increase, it seems like now might be the time to purchase
the engine and prop.
Vans (bundled) Vans
Sun-N-Fun After 5/15
Engine $36,150 $39,550
Prop 6,835 6,835 (two blade blended)
Shipping 500 (assume $500)
Other? ??
Total $42,985 $ 46,885 Delta ~$4,000
I do not want high compression engine, so no value added by some other
shops.
The three things I've heard others comment on about Lycoming shops such
as Barrett and AeroSport are:
1) Longer warranty
2) Better customer service
3) More attention to balancing, etc.
I'm not considering an overhauled engine, but maybe I should consider
it. My thoughts on overhauled are:
1) The price savings maybe not be large (I'm thinking 10-25% of a
certified), so with the Van's discounts it does not seem like it would be
worth it. If I was saving $15,000 then it would be a different matter.
2) Re-sale vale for the cost of an RV-10 ~$150k, why save a few
thousand dollars, that may reduce the resale value more.
3) Have not brought up with the better half, but I'm sure she would
say new rather than used (even if zero timed)
I'm not looking for a yes do it or don't do it. I looking for some
comments, considerations and thoughts. Is anyone else thinking the same /
different?
Thanks
Dave Syvertson
40625
Finishing Kit Ordered
_____
l?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214101948%3B35952020%3Bv"
target=_blank>Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Engine purchase considerations |
Another of the five authorized Lycoming kit engine builders is G & N
Aircraft, Griffith, IN. www.gnaircraft.com
They will custom build and also dyno test the finished product.
I have had two engines built there and am a satisfied customer. Good
folks.
Dick Sipp
RV10 N110DV
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Leffler
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:13 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine purchase considerations
Dave,
I'm just a few months behind you in the build and have similar
questions floating through my head. I've also got the added complexity
of finding employment before I can order an engine. That still doesn't
prevent me from being well prepared when the time comes.
I believe going with a new engine is probably the best value,
especially when you consider resale. Most of the folks that went with a
rebuild ended up spending 80-90% of new and had a slew of headaches
and/or issues that wouldn't have happened with a new engine.
Clearly the Van's OEM engine is the least expensive way to get a new
engine.
I think there is also value in getting an engine from Barrett,
AeroSport, Mattituck, or Lycoming Thunderbolt. I don't question the
value these folks add. These other shops can also run your engine on
their test stands longer. I know one shop that has given out their
personal cell phone numbers. You can't beat that for customer service.
Jeff Schans has stated that Lycoming tech reps will answer any
questions that come to them, even on OEM engines. However, I have no
firsthand knowledge of this at the moment.
My situation is that the longer I'm unemployed, the less I'll have in
my budget for an engine and may have to go with the low cost solution as
oppose the best value solution (I'm leaning towards BPE). I'm clearly
not in a situation to take advantage of this deal at the moment. I'm
hoping that there will be something similar at OSH, although it will
most likely cost more.
The other variable you haven't mentioned is getting a certified engine
from Van's. That would cut your phase I time down to 25 hours if you
also got a certified prop combination. Although I don't think that's
worth the extra expense.
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dsyvert@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:31 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Engine purchase considerations
Gang,
My finishing kit should be arriving in a couple weeks, so I'm
starting to think abut the engine. With Van's Sun-N-Fun special and
Lycoming's announced price increase, it seems like now might be the time
to purchase the engine and prop.
Vans (bundled) Vans
Sun-N-Fun After 5/15
Engine $36,150 $39,550
Prop 6,835 6,835 (two blade blended)
Shipping 500 (assume $500)
Other? ??
Total $42,985 $ 46,885 Delta ~$4,000
I do not want high compression engine, so no value added by some
other shops.
The three things I've heard others comment on about Lycoming shops
such as Barrett and AeroSport are:
1) Longer warranty
2) Better customer service
3) More attention to balancing, etc.
I'm not considering an overhauled engine, but maybe I should
consider it. My thoughts on overhauled are:
1) The price savings maybe not be large (I'm thinking 10-25%
of a certified), so with the Van's discounts it does not seem like it
would be worth it. If I was saving $15,000 then it would be a different
matter.
2) Re-sale vale for the cost of an RV-10 ~$150k, why save a
few thousand dollars, that may reduce the resale value more.
3) Have not brought up with the better half, but I'm sure she
would say new rather than used (even if zero timed)
I'm not looking for a yes do it or don't do it. I looking for some
comments, considerations and thoughts. Is anyone else thinking the same
/ different?
Thanks
Dave Syvertson
40625
Finishing Kit Ordered
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Engine purchase considerations |
I just ordered XIO-540 and 2 blade Hartzell from Van's. I wanted a new
engine just because I like new things with full warranty and no baggage.
No unknowns in the equation. I talked to a guy who flies a Pitts with
the same stock engine and he said it performs great. I decided on the
Hartzell 2 blade prop for simplicity and easier maintenance and better
top speed as well as less cost. I have heard that cylinder problems may
occur in engines which have been ported and polished. I know there are
many opinions on this, but it helped in my rationalization.
"One topic that often comes up when talking about cylinders is
"flow matching" or "porting and polishing". We were part of this
movement years ago, and after monitoring the trends and test data
gathered by third parties we have stopped this process. The
results yielded a slight power/performance increase, however it also
yielded a dramatic reduction in the cylinder life due to stress
cracks which were introduced, unavoidably, in the porting and polishing
process. My goal is to get the engine the last to TBO
without hassle, and flow matching was something that inhibited the goal
with minimal benefit."
_________________
Kind Regards,
Eric Barker
Western Skyways
http://www.westernskyways.com
Engine shop engines have their advantages, but I just couldn't justify
the extra cost for my mission.
Good luck.
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: Dsyvert@aol.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 7:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine purchase considerations
Gang,
My finishing kit should be arriving in a couple weeks, so I'm
starting to think abut the engine. With Van's Sun-N-Fun special and
Lycoming's announced price increase, it seems like now might be the time
to purchase the engine and prop.
Vans (bundled) Vans
Sun-N-Fun After 5/15
Engine $36,150 $39,550
Prop 6,835 6,835 (two blade blended)
Shipping 500 (assume $500)
Other? ??
Total $42,985 $ 46,885 Delta ~$4,000
I do not want high compression engine, so no value added by some
other shops.
The three things I've heard others comment on about Lycoming shops
such as Barrett and AeroSport are:
1) Longer warranty
2) Better customer service
3) More attention to balancing, etc.
I'm not considering an overhauled engine, but maybe I should
consider it. My thoughts on overhauled are:
1) The price savings maybe not be large (I'm thinking 10-25%
of a certified), so with the Van's discounts it does not seem like it
would be worth it. If I was saving $15,000 then it would be a different
matter.
2) Re-sale vale for the cost of an RV-10 ~$150k, why save a
few thousand dollars, that may reduce the resale value more.
3) Have not brought up with the better half, but I'm sure she
would say new rather than used (even if zero timed)
I'm not looking for a yes do it or don't do it. I looking for some
comments, considerations and thoughts. Is anyone else thinking the same
/ different?
Thanks
Dave Syvertson
40625
Finishing Kit Ordered
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!
Message 18
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Does anyone have a good method for final trimming of the doors to the
cabin opening? I will just have at it soon, and just by gosh and by
golly my way through it but I am hoping there is a better way. Plans
just say "Trim to fit." I searched the archives and found no joy.
Thanks.
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
Message 19
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| Subject: | fiberglass options |
The fiberglass in the -10 kits is about as good as it gets. Much better
than previous kits. Most things install with very little adjustment
necessary.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric_Kallio
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 6:46 PM
Subject: RV10-List: fiberglass options
Posted this on the VAF site as well but want to catch some more of the
group. For the finish kit has anyone gone with after market fiberglass? I am
using Sam James cowl and plenum, but what about wheel pants and fairings? I
have checked out Fairings etc, just trying to see what else is out there
with better quality than the Vans fiberglass I have received in the previous
kits.
Eric Kallio
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242000#242000
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: final door trim |
Dave, This is a loaded question, And the andwer isn't a short one.I'm
sure there are threads in the Archive. But if you want a good fit, after
you 'trim to fit' so that the doors fit within the cabin cover opening,
you will have to build up the 'gap' that results from getting them to
fit. In short, I used duct tape to tape off either the door or the cabin
cover (release agent) closed the door slathered on Flox/micro
combination, let cure then sanded flush, Then reversed the process by
taping off the other (door/cabin cover) It took me several iterations to
get it decent.
Here's a link to my door page, there are several entries midway that
deal with the 'gap'
http://deemsrv10.com/cabinwindowslogindex.html
Then with all of that said, when you install you door seal, it will
likely change the fit and you'll end up 'tweaking' the fit again.
Deems Davis
N519PJ
3.2 hours Phase 1
Dave Leikam wrote:
> Does anyone have a good method for final trimming of the doors to the
> cabin opening? I will just have at it soon, and just by gosh and by
> golly my way through it but I am hoping there is a better way. Plans
> just say "Trim to fit." I searched the archives and found no joy.
> Thanks.
>
> Dave Leikam
> RV-10 #40496
> N89DA (Reserved)
> Muskego, WI
> *
>
>
> *
Message 21
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| Subject: | IAS for Pahse 1 without pants/fairings |
What IAS are people seeing during their flyoff without pants/fairings.
Today @ 3500' running 25 x 25, I was indicating 134 kts. I know I've got
some rigging problems (which I hope are now remedied) and have been
dragging the airplane through the sky with a yaw. Just curious as to
what I should be looking for once I get her rigged right and flying
straight.
Deems Davis
N519PJ
A whooping 3.2 hours and 3 flights !
BTW the RAM air is an INSTANT turbo, pull the valve open and MP pressure
jumps 1.9" !!!!!!!!! WOOOOHOOOOO. What a surge!!!!!! I spoke with Rod
Bower tonight and he's working on an enhancement and testing with Lycon,
and he's confident we can get 3" + boost additional with the BPE cold
air and forward facing servo :-) Who needs any stinking turbo !?
...... More to come
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: final door trim |
Both Deems and Jim Berry had a method that reviewed last June: search -
"RV10-List: Re: 45 degree angle on the door edge"
to get you started.
I will be interested to hear how Richard created a 1/8 inch rabbet, but
in the mean time I can suggest an alternative. If you trim the door edge
square so that it sits slightly inside the curved portion of the canopy
edge, the door edge can serve as a mold for creating the rabbet. The
inner edge of the door should be just tangent to the radius of the
canopy edge. Once you have the windows installed, apply 2 layers of
release tape(packing tape) to the edge of the doors. You should have all
door locking hardware installed and adjusted to final fit. Close the
doors and lock them in place. Trowel on a mix of flox/micro to the
canopy top so it fills the gap between the door edge and the canopy.
After it cures, open the doors and remove the packing tape. You will be
left with a rabbet that exactly matches your door edge, and should
require very little clean up. Also, I would suggest installing the door
windows with the doors mounted on the canopy.
I spent many hours slowly fitting the doors and many more after
installing the seals. You may be in for a long journey compleing Section
45.. But if done slowly and right it will be well worth the effort. My
advice to you is skip the Van's seals and get an aftermarket one. I
didn't and it was a lot of trimming after a perfect fit, it's a solid
fit now but it came with a costs of hours.
Pascal
From: Dave Leikam
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 6:57 PM
Subject: RV10-List: final door trim
Does anyone have a good method for final trimming of the doors to the
cabin opening? I will just have at it soon, and just by gosh and by
golly my way through it but I am hoping there is a better way. Plans
just say "Trim to fit." I searched the archives and found no joy.
Thanks.
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
Message 23
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| Subject: | IAS for Pahse 1 without pants/fairings |
Great to be able to compare notes on this. We have just under 4hrs on
the airframe. Fairings and pants were installed for last flight to
address any balance issues. Some minor trim reqd for marginally heavy
right wing, but a reasonable amount of rudder trim required.
With pants, 25x25 gave us 168kts at 1500'
Dirty stall speed is 45kts (confirmed)
Jon Johanson is out flying as I write this email. He is absolutely
stoked with the performance of this aircraft - as am I. Can't wait for
my turn . . .
Cheers,
Ron
VH-XRM
Phase 1 - 3.9hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Thursday, 30 April 2009 12:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: IAS for Pahse 1 without pants/fairings
What IAS are people seeing during their flyoff without pants/fairings.
Today @ 3500' running 25 x 25, I was indicating 134 kts. I know I've got
some rigging problems (which I hope are now remedied) and have been
dragging the airplane through the sky with a yaw. Just curious as to
what I should be looking for once I get her rigged right and flying
straight.
Deems Davis
N519PJ
A whooping 3.2 hours and 3 flights !
BTW the RAM air is an INSTANT turbo, pull the valve open and MP pressure
jumps 1.9" !!!!!!!!! WOOOOHOOOOO. What a surge!!!!!! I spoke with Rod
Bower tonight and he's working on an enhancement and testing with Lycon,
and he's confident we can get 3" + boost additional with the BPE cold
air and forward facing servo :-) Who needs any stinking turbo !?
...... More to come
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglass options |
Yep, especially the doors :)
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Lenny
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242020#242020
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| Subject: | Re: Engine purchase considerations |
I went with an XIO-540 from Barrett. I chose them primarily for their reputation,
but after going down there to watch the build up and run in of my engine I
am even more impressed. Allen Barrett is absolutely meticulous when assembling
an engine. He may be one of the few people more obsessive than myself.
Even if you do not want any of the high performance goodies, there are 2 things
you get from Barrett that clinched it for me:
1. They balance rotating parts to 1/10th the limits of Lycoming i.e. if Lyc balances
a part to 10 grams, they balance to 1 gram.
2. The XIO comes with roller tappets. See the May Aviation Consumer for their take
on this.
As a bonus, if you are nice Allen might take you out for some of the best BBQ ribs
ever. Rhonda is more into raw fish.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
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