---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/26/09: 44 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:22 AM - Slightly Off Topic: Quality Continual Flight Training (John Cox) 2. 04:11 AM - Re: Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and Flight Training (ricksked@embarqmail.com) 3. 04:53 AM - Re: N2GB - First Flight (orchidman) 4. 05:08 AM - Re: Slightly Off Topic: Quality Continual Flight Training (orchidman) 5. 06:19 AM - Re: Slightly Off Topic: Quality Continual Flight Training (linn) 6. 07:35 AM - door latch sensor location (pascal) 7. 08:26 AM - Steve Raddatz (Perry, Phil) 8. 09:13 AM - Re: Steve Raddatz (Danny Riggs) 9. 09:39 AM - Re: Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC..... (jayb) 10. 10:00 AM - Re: Re: Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC..... (Tim Olson) 11. 10:00 AM - Re: Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and Flight Training (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 12. 10:05 AM - Re: Steve Raddatz (David McNeill) 13. 10:23 AM - Re: Steve Raddatz (John Cox) 14. 10:23 AM - Re: Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and Flight Training (Bob Turner) 15. 11:20 AM - How do you change the VFR code on the Garmin GTX 330 (Michael Wellenzohn) 16. 11:44 AM - Re: Re: Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and Flight Training (Neil & Sarah Colliver) 17. 11:51 AM - Re: Steve Raddatz (linn) 18. 12:10 PM - Re: How do you change the VFR code on the Garmin GTX 330 (SteinAir, Inc.) 19. 12:37 PM - Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger (jayb) 20. 12:40 PM - Re: Steve Raddatz (SteinAir, Inc.) 21. 01:25 PM - Re: Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger (pascal) 22. 01:38 PM - Re: Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger (jayb) 23. 01:44 PM - Re: Re: Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 24. 01:47 PM - Re: How do you change the VFR code on the Garmin GTX 330 (Michael Wellenzohn) 25. 02:14 PM - 2009 Spring NW RV-10 Builders and Fliers BBQ (John Jessen) 26. 02:30 PM - Re: Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger (Fred Williams, M.D.) 27. 02:45 PM - Latest Revision of the FF kit (pascal) 28. 02:55 PM - Re: Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger (jayb) 29. 04:54 PM - Re: N44YH - First Flight (John Jessen) 30. 04:54 PM - Re: First Flight (John Jessen) 31. 04:54 PM - Re: N2GB - First Flight (John Jessen) 32. 07:28 PM - Portable oxygen (David McNeill) 33. 07:45 PM - Re: Pilot Proficiency vs RV10 'flyability' (Deems Davis) 34. 07:49 PM - Ground block (Dave Leikam) 35. 07:54 PM - Re: Portable oxygen (Tim Olson) 36. 08:08 PM - Re: Pilot Proficiency vs RV10 'flyability' (Dj Merrill) 37. 08:37 PM - Re: Pilot Proficiency vs RV10 'flyability' (David McNeill) 38. 08:49 PM - Re: Portable oxygen (Les Kearney) 39. 09:06 PM - Re: Pilot Proficiency vs RV10 'flyability' (Tim Olson) 40. 09:39 PM - Portable oxygen (Dave Saylor) 41. 09:57 PM - Re: Steve Raddatz (fdombroski) 42. 10:04 PM - Re: Pilot Proficiency vs RV10 'flyability' (richard sipp) 43. 10:04 PM - Re: Portable oxygen (Vernon Smith) 44. 11:28 PM - Re: How do you change the VFR code on the Garmin GTX 330 (Werner Schneider) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:47 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Slightly Off Topic: Quality Continual Flight Training From: John Cox Too often I read posts of friends who talk of the ease of flying RVs and ho w they don't need Advanced/Emergency Training. In my thirty six years of flying I have lost way too many acquaintences and close friends. I want Ad vanced Training for all RV-10 pilots and tomorrow is none to soon. Deems , Count me "IN". Saturday I lost a friend from work, Scott Resnick-49, who was flying a Lanc air 320 (as the instructor, now with a wonderful widow and four great kids- fatherless) with the new, second owner (a non-builder - 29 years old) of t he Lancair. He was flying from Hillsboro, OR to his uncle's funeral in Pre scott, AZ. They almost made it - NOT. I just read that the most prolific RV-10 builder in the world, Steve Raddat z has died in his RV when it collided in formation with another of my Red S tar buddy's Nanchang CJ-6. As many of you know, I fly a Nanchang CJ-6A to OSH each year. The RV's wing fell off, crashing on the campus of a Communi ty College. The Nanchang was damaged, but my friend BJ survived. You guy' s talking of being Hot Sticks and the Easy To Fly RV-10's have a perspectiv e I learned to shelve years ago. Let me say here. We are on different plan ets as I go back to crying a while longer. I don't ask why any more. I as k again..... Who is next? To Steve's partner and Steve's grieving/ surviving family... I deeply feel your loss. His RV-10 creations were considered the best around by another RV-10 builder on this list (and that builder I respect). Strive to be the safest pilot you can (Male or Female)... find a great inst ructor who can fly the RV-10 under the most difficult of circumstances. Do n't buy the casual dialog. Let's raise a toast to Steve Raddatz's memory a nd kick off comprehensive and appropriate training that a few of us need - in his name. Let's raise the bar for RV-10's. John Cox #40600 From: Ben Westfall Sent: Mon 5/25/2009 10:46 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and Flight Tr aining All RV's are "hot fighters" compared to just about any normally available G A airplane. I'm sure I'll get a lot of shit for this but personally I error on the conservative side and I don't thinks it's prudent to fly any RV w/o at least 200-250 hours of logged total time (and that's pushing it in my mind). I started flying at 22 years of age in 1996. I flew my first RV, which was an RV4, in Nov 99 after accumulating about 450 hours in all sorts of cessna's from 152's to 206's to twins and some J3 time. I felt like a pretty competent pilot at that point but holy crap did I get my ass handed to me in the RV. Fortunately it stayed in one piece and I lived to tell about it. Turn a 24-25 year old loose in an RV-4 and look out. I don't consider them all that hard to fly but there is sooo much to learn why rush it? I do consider it cheating when you don't even have to think much about density altitude or takeoff/landing distance on a grass runway o r gee I cannot climb above those clouds in my path or Vx takeoff and climbouts... being a great aviator should not be rushed (I don't claim to b e one but hopefully some day). I like to feel like I "wear" an airplane whether it's upside down, right side up, on a hot day, or a shitty rainy one w/crappy visibility or an airport you're not familiar with whether it's at sea level or 5000+ft. Tha t takes time period. RV's are easy to fly if you know "how to fly" but don't forget to really learn how to fly. Don't be in a rush to "move up". Make sure you've eeked every bit of knowledge from the plane you're learning in. Find a cheap trainer and fly it till the wheels fall of, fix it, and do it again. If you can afford to build a 10 you can afford to buy a 150/152 or equivalent and learn how to fly. Don't rush. You might be able to get that 10 built pronto but take a few years during the build and get several hundred hours. You'll never regret it and your not ready to fly that shiny new 10 anyway. Let's keep it to only having to learn the tough lessons from Dan Lloyd. Given more time he may have never learned but we'll never know. -Ben Westfall #40579 (finishing kit so what's that about half way?) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ricksked@embarqmail.com Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 9:00 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and Flight Training Gotta agree with you Ron....lol...hmmm Tim's wife and her friend...nuther woman....oops...is Tim saying women can't handle the -10....com' on Tim you make the RV-10 sound like some kinda hot fighter plane....over the fence in the -10 at 70 vs over the fence in the 152 at 58/60?? Never flown one..don' t make it more than it is...put a 16 year old who is not afraid to yank and bank in the -10 and he/she will fly the crap outta it.....with age comes reservations....and fear of the precise response of the RV.... Rick S. N246RS Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "McGANN, Ron" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and Flight Training Geez Tim - you've just given away all my secrets. I'm a low time pilot by any standard (<150 hrs). I had not flown PIC for the last 4 years of my build. There is no way that I considered myself current to fly the -10. Jon Johanson did a marvellous job of shaking down the airframe. I umm'ed and ahhre'd about regaining some currency in a 172 or arrow before I launched into the -10. But I was convinced by Jon J and others to just get some dual with an instructor in -10, and 'get on with it'. Best decision I ever made. I found that flying was a bit like riding a bike. I now have about 6 hours PIC on my -10. I am obviously still feeling my way and have a lot to learn. But, ALL of my landings, circuits (patterns) and general flying have been better than what I recall in the past. Yes the plane is quick and you have to be careful to not let her get in front of you. But man, what a wonderful - WONDERFUL aeroplane. She is a delight to fly and makes me look a much better pilot than I know I am. Cheers, Ron VH-XRM in Oz -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Tuesday, 26 May 2009 12:33 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and Flight Training I would agree that it seems easier to land the RV-10 in the right seat than a yoke-equipped plane. I think it is the stick....it's a little more ambidextrous capable I think...just more natural than a yoke. The throttle is really the only part that messes me up. And, I'd agree that in the pattern once you get comfortable and you are no longer behind the airplane, I think that the -10 in my case is easier too, due to the trim/flaps/goodies and all, and the added size and weight for stability. The key is "once you are comfortable". You need to have a good feel for all of the basic flight maneuvers. Steep turns and even normal turns are very simple for us...but for a new student, it doesn't take much to get out of whack high or low in a turn in a light-feeling plane like the -10. The cherokee is much much more mushy and easy that way during learning. Now, once you have experience and have a good handle on everything, the -10 is a VERY easy plane to transition too, and it will make you look like a far better pilot than you probably even are. It lands easier than most any plane I've ever flown...if you fly it the way it needs to be. I've NEVER had plane that was as consistently smooth touching down as the -10. The Sundowner I had a significant amount of time in, and was very good at flying, but my "beautiful landing" percentage wasn't nearly what it is in the -10. And although I can make the Cherokee be halfway smooth too already, in the right seat, it too has just no comparison to the -10. So once a person has some experience the -10 isn't very hard to deal with. I'd think that if a zero hour pilot flies 100 hours and they did it over 2 years or less, they'd probably easily be able to transition. (currency matters) If you're under 100 hours, I think it'll just take a little more work. Under 60 and I think it would be best just to do some dual for a bit before thinking of any solo work in the -10. I know I scared myself a few times in my first 100 hours...I'd have been a disaster in the -10. What really helped me gain experience though was going into my instrument training sometime not long after the 100 hour mark. Then I was focused not on how to fly the plane, but to fly the plane according to some precise path....and the "handling" part just started to become second nature with the added 40 hours I had to do for instrument. To me, an instrument rating is the most valuable rating you can get...even simply due to a dual-time experience with an instructor. By the time you've done both you'd have over 100 hours guaranteed, and you'd be far along the path to being a lesser insurance risk...hence the reason they are requiring it more and more. I do hope to spend more time in the Right seat on the -10, too. Ultimately, once I get done helping these 2 through their private pilot stuff, I want to get in gear to do my commercial and CFI, just for the heck of it. I don't want to be paid to be a CFI, but it would come in handy some times. Oh, and you're absolutely right about the visibility in the -10. It's unparalleled for forward viz. The Sundowner was also excellent. They both are far better cockpits than the 172/182/cherokees from an ergonomic and visibility perspective. (I'm talking the later model Sundowners, like my 1977 I had) What blows me away lately is how CHEAP that cherokee is to fly. I fly for hours and hours and go to fill it up and put in a few drops of gas. Man, now that is a different feeling compared to local, rich of peak flying in the RV-10. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Jesse Saint wrote: > > I agree almost completely with your conclusions, Tim. Having spent the > last year going from first solo through 95 RV-10 hours (250TT), it is > all fairly fresh in my mind. I definitely would recommend getting > something that is easier to stay on top of while getting going. I don't > know how the RV-10 landing gear holds up under initial training, but I > know that it is hard to hurt the gear on a 172, and I know I put it > through its paces starting out. Once you get fairly comfortable flying > in general, the -10 isn't hard to stick with in the pattern, and is even > easier in some respects, especially with the flaps and trim on the > stick. It is certainly hard to get cheaper to operate than a C152 or a > Cherokee, especially when counting the insurance costs. > > One thing I will add, however, is that I think it is much easier to get > comfortable right seat in the -10 than in the other planes mentioned. > I'm not sure if it's the stick over the yoke or the better visibility or > what, but I have done the same number of landings right seat in the -10 > and the 172 and the Cherokee 180, and I can land the -10 much much > better than the other two. Tim, have you flown any right seat in the -10? > > do not archive > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse@saintaviation.com > Cell: 352-427-0285 > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > On May 25, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > >> >> For those of you who followed the past discussions we had about >> learning to fly in an RV-10, I've gotten to see first-hand some of >> what happens to new pilots again, to refresh my memory. Recently, >> my wife and another lady have been flight training. One has about >> 20 hours now, and one has 40+. They both flew a rental Cessna 152 >> for the first 90% of the hours. I'd been hemming and hawing on what >> to do for a plane, because I hated the idea of paying $76-80/hr wet >> for a stinkin' C-152. That's a ripoff. But, they were flying that >> plane and learning. Then one day after they had about the >> above mentioned hours, we jumped in the RV-10 and I gave them a >> shot at flying that plane. It was very easy to see how they >> were instantly over their head...although the one with 40 hours >> had a better handle on the airplane, of course. Things just >> come at you too fast, and in fact, one of the instructors that >> we've now had them spending time with usually insists on full-stop >> landings for a good amount of time too, because there is too >> much in rapid-fire when you try to do touch-n-go's early on. >> >> Recently they've both transitioned into a different airplane. Get >> this.... I found a place that I can lease a Cherokee 140 Cruiser >> (160hp) for $32/hr dry + insurance. I only need to hangar the >> airplane and fill it with fuel and insure it. The insurance for >> myself, the 2 students, and an "open policy" allowing anyone >> with 250 hours to fly it, was $914/yr...and of course we get 90% >> credit back for the unused months when we return the plane. So, >> it was a no-brainer to take that deal, and I wish I'd have >> started that way when they wanted to learn how to fly. That plane >> is a little better for them to learn in, too. Transitioning >> to the plane didn't take too long, however it's still a very >> forgiving plane that is not as hard to stay behind as the RV-10. >> Not only that, but it was a good plane for me to self-learn how >> to be comfortable in the right seat. So I've been putting some >> time in lately with that plane. There are things that are easier >> in my RV-10...like you don't have to set a DG, you have electric >> flaps and trim, the spring gear makes for quiet touchdowns, >> and things like that. But from a perspective on how rapid-fire >> things go in the pattern, it is much much faster. Yesterday I >> got back in my own left seat and did a couple landings just to >> see the comparison, and it was really something to be able to >> take off, climb out, and be at pattern altitude before I even >> hit the downwind leg. When my wife tried doing a few patterns >> in the RV-10, by the time her brain caught up to the climb >> and turn, we'd be 600-700' high on downwind....things just >> happened way too fast. Anyway, it's been quite the experience >> watching 2 new pilots develop. I think that once a person has >> obtained a certificate, if they extended their training a bit >> into the RV-10, it wouldn't be such a bad experience. The one >> with 40-45 hours is much closer to being able to stay in front >> of the airplane. >> >> If someone were to insist on learning in their RV-10, I'd kind >> of think that perhaps a way to go about it would be to just >> expect that you're going to do more like 30-40 hours of dual >> up front, followed by some solo work. If you have a good >> instructor in there with you, it wouldn't be un-do-able, but it >> will definitely hinder your rate of learning to have that much >> going on in the beginning, so planning accordingly would >> be good. My best guess is that whereas 40 hours would be a >> minimum for private pilot, to learn to fly in an RV-10 might >> take that same person more like 60 hours. If you would have >> taken 60 hours, maybe it will take you 80 now. So I would >> say it might be better for your airplane and it's engine to >> just rent/lease/buy something cheap to get the training done in, >> and then move on from there...still spending a little more >> dual with the instructor. If you noticed, I paid less than >> $1000 for the insurance for those 2 new pilots, in a ~$30,000 >> airplane. That would be cheaper than spending the additional >> THOUSANDS if I could even find a place to insure a student in >> mine. Also, since I have that lease deal worked out, my wife >> can now put in a bunch of time of her own if she wants, and >> keep flying and logging time after she gets a certificate, until >> she builds the minimum of maybe 100 hours before any company >> would even touch her for the RV-10. (there was a slight chance >> that with 100 hours I could get insurance for $1000 or more >> add-on...but most companies won't touch you without 250) >> >> Sorry for the long story, but I'm sitting in a terminal building >> hanging out while one of them is out with the instructor, so >> it's just on my mind. >> >> The other thing on my mind is....this Cherokee only has a >> 2 place intercom. We sometimes stuff 3 (or maybe will even >> try 2 kids) into the back. So I need to pick up a cheap >> portable intercom. I used to own a Flightcom, and I'm hoping >> to find something like a used Flightcom IIsi. Anyone have one >> that they aren't using that they'd want to sell for a decent >> price? >> >> -- >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD >> do not archive >> >> >> >> > > > > > "Warning: The information contained in this email and any attached files is confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free, however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to your computer." __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur e database 4103 (20090525) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:01 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and Flight Training From: ricksked@embarqmail.com There was a lot of tongue in cheek to my message...it wasn't meant to imply anything except add a little humor to the frey...I'm sure Tim didn't take any offense since he has known my "witty" responses for the last five and a half years...besides I can't be held responsible....I was spraying paint all day...the fumes got to me... Rick Sked N246RSi Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Neil & Sarah Colliver Subject: Re: RV10-List: Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and Flight Training As an aside, I would like to know how many women there are who have RV10 type ratings. My wife is about to start flying again after the usual 6 month break around childbirth. And again, as usual, she'll get her confidence up in a C152, & then progress to the RV10. Just wisdom. Her heart would fly the RV10 tomorrow, but it takes time to polish rusty skills, and at 200mph, sometimes there's not enough time to balance checks, calls & nav. It's not just the speed, but a steam driven C152 seems a lot simpler than some of our Star Trek panels. Plus, our grass strip is not quite straightforward at 550m & obstacles at either end & an active airforce base a mile away. Neil ZK-RVT On 26/05/2009, at 4:00 PM, ricksked@embarqmail.com wrote: > > Gotta agree with you Ron....lol...hmmm Tim's wife and her > friend...nuther woman....oops...is Tim saying women can't handle the > -10....com' on Tim you make the RV-10 sound like some kinda hot > fighter plane....over the fence in the -10 at 70 vs over the fence > in the 152 at 58/60?? Never flown one..don't make it more than it > is...put a 16 year old who is not afraid to yank and bank in the -10 > and he/she will fly the crap outta it.....with age comes > reservations....and fear of the precise response of the RV.... > > Rick S. > N246RS > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: "McGANN, Ron" > > Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 13:05:46 > To: > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and > Flight Training > > > > > > Geez Tim - you've just given away all my secrets. > > I'm a low time pilot by any standard (<150 hrs). I had not flown PIC > for the last 4 years of my build. There is no way that I considered > myself current to fly the -10. Jon Johanson did a marvellous job of > shaking down the airframe. > > I umm'ed and ahhre'd about regaining some currency in a 172 or arrow > before I launched into the -10. But I was convinced by Jon J and > others > to just get some dual with an instructor in -10, and 'get on with it'. > Best decision I ever made. > > I found that flying was a bit like riding a bike. I now have about 6 > hours PIC on my -10. I am obviously still feeling my way and have a > lot > to learn. But, ALL of my landings, circuits (patterns) and general > flying have been better than what I recall in the past. Yes the plane > is quick and you have to be careful to not let her get in front of > you. > But man, what a wonderful - WONDERFUL aeroplane. She is a delight to > fly and makes me look a much better pilot than I know I am. > > Cheers, > Ron > VH-XRM in Oz > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Tuesday, 26 May 2009 12:33 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and > Flight > Training > > > I would agree that it seems easier to land the RV-10 in the right > seat than a yoke-equipped plane. I think it is the stick....it's > a little more ambidextrous capable I think...just more natural > than a yoke. The throttle is really the only part that messes > me up. And, I'd agree that in the pattern once you get comfortable > and you are no longer behind the airplane, I think that the -10 in > my case is easier too, due to the trim/flaps/goodies and all, and > the added size and weight for stability. The key is "once you > are comfortable". You need to have a good feel for all of the > basic flight maneuvers. Steep turns and even normal turns are > very simple for us...but for a new student, it doesn't take much > to get out of whack high or low in a turn in a light-feeling plane > like the -10. The cherokee is much much more mushy and easy that > way during learning. Now, once you have experience and have a good > handle on everything, the -10 is a VERY easy plane to transition > too, and it will make you look like a far better pilot than > you probably even are. It lands easier than most any plane I've > ever flown...if you fly it the way it needs to be. I've NEVER > had plane that was as consistently smooth touching down as > the -10. The Sundowner I had a significant amount of time in, > and was very good at flying, but my "beautiful landing" percentage > wasn't nearly what it is in the -10. And although I can make > the Cherokee be halfway smooth too already, in the right seat, > it too has just no comparison to the -10. So once a person has > some experience the -10 isn't very hard to deal with. I'd think > that if a zero hour pilot flies 100 hours and they did it over 2 > years or less, they'd probably easily be able to transition. > (currency matters) If you're under 100 hours, I think it'll just > take a little more work. Under 60 and I think it would be best > just to do some dual for a bit before thinking of any solo work > in the -10. I know I scared myself a few times in my first 100 > hours...I'd have been a disaster in the -10. What really helped > me gain experience though was going into my instrument training > sometime not long after the 100 hour mark. Then I was focused > not on how to fly the plane, but to fly the plane according > to some precise path....and the "handling" part just started > to become second nature with the added 40 hours I had to do > for instrument. To me, an instrument rating is the most valuable > rating you can get...even simply due to a dual-time experience > with an instructor. By the time you've done both you'd have > over 100 hours guaranteed, and you'd be far along the path to > being a lesser insurance risk...hence the reason they are > requiring it more and more. > > I do hope to spend more time in the Right seat on the -10, too. > Ultimately, once I get done helping these 2 through their > private pilot stuff, I want to get in gear to do my commercial > and CFI, just for the heck of it. I don't want to be paid to > be a CFI, but it would come in handy some times. > > Oh, and you're absolutely right about the visibility in the -10. > It's unparalleled for forward viz. The Sundowner was also excellent. > They both are far better cockpits than the 172/182/cherokees > from an ergonomic and visibility perspective. (I'm talking the > later model Sundowners, like my 1977 I had) > > What blows me away lately is how CHEAP that cherokee is to fly. > I fly for hours and hours and go to fill it up and put in a > few drops of gas. Man, now that is a different feeling compared > to local, rich of peak flying in the RV-10. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > > Jesse Saint wrote: >> >> >> I agree almost completely with your conclusions, Tim. Having spent > the >> last year going from first solo through 95 RV-10 hours (250TT), it is >> all fairly fresh in my mind. I definitely would recommend getting >> something that is easier to stay on top of while getting going. I > don't >> know how the RV-10 landing gear holds up under initial training, >> but I > >> know that it is hard to hurt the gear on a 172, and I know I put it >> through its paces starting out. Once you get fairly comfortable > flying >> in general, the -10 isn't hard to stick with in the pattern, and is > even >> easier in some respects, especially with the flaps and trim on the >> stick. It is certainly hard to get cheaper to operate than a C152 or > a >> Cherokee, especially when counting the insurance costs. >> >> One thing I will add, however, is that I think it is much easier to > get >> comfortable right seat in the -10 than in the other planes mentioned. > >> I'm not sure if it's the stick over the yoke or the better visibility > or >> what, but I have done the same number of landings right seat in the > -10 >> and the 172 and the Cherokee 180, and I can land the -10 much much >> better than the other two. Tim, have you flown any right seat in the > -10? >> >> do not archive >> >> Jesse Saint >> Saint Aviation, Inc. >> jesse@saintaviation.com >> Cell: 352-427-0285 >> Fax: 815-377-3694 >> >> On May 25, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Tim Olson wrote: >> >>> >>> For those of you who followed the past discussions we had about >>> learning to fly in an RV-10, I've gotten to see first-hand some of >>> what happens to new pilots again, to refresh my memory. Recently, >>> my wife and another lady have been flight training. One has about >>> 20 hours now, and one has 40+. They both flew a rental Cessna 152 >>> for the first 90% of the hours. I'd been hemming and hawing on what >>> to do for a plane, because I hated the idea of paying $76-80/hr wet >>> for a stinkin' C-152. That's a ripoff. But, they were flying that >>> plane and learning. Then one day after they had about the >>> above mentioned hours, we jumped in the RV-10 and I gave them a >>> shot at flying that plane. It was very easy to see how they >>> were instantly over their head...although the one with 40 hours >>> had a better handle on the airplane, of course. Things just >>> come at you too fast, and in fact, one of the instructors that >>> we've now had them spending time with usually insists on full-stop >>> landings for a good amount of time too, because there is too >>> much in rapid-fire when you try to do touch-n-go's early on. >>> >>> Recently they've both transitioned into a different airplane. Get >>> this.... I found a place that I can lease a Cherokee 140 Cruiser >>> (160hp) for $32/hr dry + insurance. I only need to hangar the >>> airplane and fill it with fuel and insure it. The insurance for >>> myself, the 2 students, and an "open policy" allowing anyone >>> with 250 hours to fly it, was $914/yr...and of course we get 90% >>> credit back for the unused months when we return the plane. So, >>> it was a no-brainer to take that deal, and I wish I'd have >>> started that way when they wanted to learn how to fly. That plane >>> is a little better for them to learn in, too. Transitioning >>> to the plane didn't take too long, however it's still a very >>> forgiving plane that is not as hard to stay behind as the RV-10. >>> Not only that, but it was a good plane for me to self-learn how >>> to be comfortable in the right seat. So I've been putting some >>> time in lately with that plane. There are things that are easier >>> in my RV-10...like you don't have to set a DG, you have electric >>> flaps and trim, the spring gear makes for quiet touchdowns, >>> and things like that. But from a perspective on how rapid-fire >>> things go in the pattern, it is much much faster. Yesterday I >>> got back in my own left seat and did a couple landings just to >>> see the comparison, and it was really something to be able to >>> take off, climb out, and be at pattern altitude before I even >>> hit the downwind leg. When my wife tried doing a few patterns >>> in the RV-10, by the time her brain caught up to the climb >>> and turn, we'd be 600-700' high on downwind....things just >>> happened way too fast. Anyway, it's been quite the experience >>> watching 2 new pilots develop. I think that once a person has >>> obtained a certificate, if they extended their training a bit >>> into the RV-10, it wouldn't be such a bad experience. The one >>> with 40-45 hours is much closer to being able to stay in front >>> of the airplane. >>> >>> If someone were to insist on learning in their RV-10, I'd kind >>> of think that perhaps a way to go about it would be to just >>> expect that you're going to do more like 30-40 hours of dual >>> up front, followed by some solo work. If you have a good >>> instructor in there with you, it wouldn't be un-do-able, but it >>> will definitely hinder your rate of learning to have that much >>> going on in the beginning, so planning accordingly would >>> be good. My best guess is that whereas 40 hours would be a >>> minimum for private pilot, to learn to fly in an RV-10 might >>> take that same person more like 60 hours. If you would have >>> taken 60 hours, maybe it will take you 80 now. So I would >>> say it might be better for your airplane and it's engine to >>> just rent/lease/buy something cheap to get the training done in, >>> and then move on from there...still spending a little more >>> dual with the instructor. If you noticed, I paid less than >>> $1000 for the insurance for those 2 new pilots, in a ~$30,000 >>> airplane. That would be cheaper than spending the additional >>> THOUSANDS if I could even find a place to insure a student in >>> mine. Also, since I have that lease deal worked out, my wife >>> can now put in a bunch of time of her own if she wants, and >>> keep flying and logging time after she gets a certificate, until >>> she builds the minimum of maybe 100 hours before any company >>> would even touch her for the RV-10. (there was a slight chance >>> that with 100 hours I could get insurance for $1000 or more >>> add-on...but most companies won't touch you without 250) >>> >>> Sorry for the long story, but I'm sitting in a terminal building >>> hanging out while one of them is out with the instructor, so >>> it's just on my mind. >>> >>> The other thing on my mind is....this Cherokee only has a >>> 2 place intercom. We sometimes stuff 3 (or maybe will even >>> try 2 kids) into the back. So I need to pick up a cheap >>> portable intercom. I used to own a Flightcom, and I'm hoping >>> to find something like a used Flightcom IIsi. Anyone have one >>> that they aren't using that they'd want to sell for a decent >>> price? >>> >>> -- >>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD >>> do not archive >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > "Warning: > The information contained in this email and any attached files is > confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended > recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any > attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email > in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been > taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free, > however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the > sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus > checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to > your computer." > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:08 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: N2GB - First Flight From: "orchidman" AirMike wrote: > Hey Gary - I am still very excited and happy for you. Can you give us all a report on how it felt , squawks, etc After flying with Alex the week before, I was ready. The plane flew great. With no wheel pants it is requiring some right rudder trim and I am finding that you have to watch your fuel distribution as it is easy to get a heavy wing. I flew 2 times a day all 3 days of the weekend. One early morning, come back and tear down, then do it again mid afternoon. Right now I am chasing an oil leak around the pipe thread on the fittings going into the oil cooler. Also had an intermittent #2 EGT which I think is fixed. Swapped #2 & #4 probes and now all is working. May have been just the connectors. Time will tell if it comes back. And that is all. My speeds including stall speeds seem to be right on what Vans published or what I would expect. On takeoff, it is every bit a high performance airplane. It is a real joy landing. Hit your speeds and you can grease it on. -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245374#245374 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:50 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Slightly Off Topic: Quality Continual Flight Training From: "orchidman" AV8ORJWC wrote: > Too often I read posts of friends who talk of the ease of flying RVs and how they don't need Advanced/Emergency Training. In my thirty six years of flying I have lost way too many acquaintences and close friends. I want Advanced Training for all RV-10 pilots and tomorrow is none to soon. Deems , Count me "IN". Having just gone through the training and first flight, I can not agree more with this. Insurance may want it, you should demand it of your self to take the training. I am wondering if an hour of refresher training after 60 to 80 hours would be in order. I am sure I will have developed some type of bad habits by then. It might be as simple as flying with another experienced -10 pilot. -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245375#245375 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:18 AM PST US From: linn Subject: Re: RV10-List: Slightly Off Topic: Quality Continual Flight Training C'mon guys ..... I've only had a little 30 min demo flight (that I paid for) and y'all are starting to scare me!!! But let me comment below: John Cox wrote: > Too often I read posts of friends who talk of the ease of flying RVs > and how they don't need Advanced/Emergency Training. In my thirty > six years of flying I have lost way too many acquaintences and close > friends. I want Advanced Training for all RV-10 pilots and tomorrow > is none to soon. Deems , Count me "IN". Well John, We've been flying for about the same time ..... and probably lost the same amount of friends ...... but I can honestly say that most of the losses occurred when they were doing things they shouldn't have. None of my missing friends left because they couldn't fly the airplane (although there were some I wouldn't call 'skilled pilots). > Saturday I lost a friend from work, Scott Resnick-49, who was flying a > Lancair 320 (as the instructor, now with a wonderful widow and four > great kids- fatherless) with the new, second owner (a non-builder - 29 > years old) of the Lancair. He was flying from Hillsboro, OR to his > uncle's funeral in Prescott, AZ. They almost made it - NOT. But you didn't say what caused the accident! > I just read that the most prolific RV-10 builder in the world, Steve > Raddatz has died in his RV when it collided in formation with > another of my Red Star buddy's Nanchang CJ-6. As many of you know, I > fly a Nanchang CJ-6A to OSH each year. The RV's wing fell off, > crashing on the campus of a Community College. The Nanchang was > damaged, but my friend BJ survived. Truly fortunate that one survived! Midairs are most often fatal to all involved. I feel your pain for Steve .... and am elated that one survived. I love to fly formation ..... makes my 'trips' go faster ..... but (as I'm sure you're aware) the level of risk is 1,000 times greater than just flying the airplane. I haven't flown one in formation (remember the demo flight?) but it appears that it would make a very good formation platform. > You guy's talking of being Hot Sticks and the Easy To Fly RV-10's > have a perspective I learned to shelve years ago. Well, that's half right, I guess. I've not read of any 'Hot Sticks' on my lists. To the contrary, I seem to detect a whole lot of humility. > Let me say here. We are on different planets as I go back to crying > a while longer. I don't ask why any more. I ask again..... Who is next? Thank God we don't know! We do what we do because we really love the activity .... OK, I'll admit it ..... I'm addicted ..... and accept the risk. It's what sets us apart from the rest of the ground-attached population. > To Steve's partner and Steve's grieving/ surviving family... I deeply > feel your loss. I too feel the loss. I didn't know your friends ..... the names were new to me ..... but they were kindred spirits ..... and, like the friends I've lost, ...... will be missed terribly by their friends and family. Sometimes Life sucks. > His RV-10 creations were considered the best around by another RV-10 > builder on this list (and that builder I respect). > > Strive to be the safest pilot you can (Male or Female)... It's important to a long life and enjoyment of our hobby. Anything less will bite you in the butt. > find a great instructor who can fly the RV-10 under the most difficult > of circumstances. Is there really one out there??? I think the breed is sufficiently young for the 'super instructor' to still be in training. > Don't buy the casual dialog. I haven't seen that either. I haven't detected anything less than a professional approach to the 'art' of flying the -10. I surely haven't seen the 'if you got your ticket recently in a 150 then you shouldn't have a problem with the -10' mentality. > Let's raise a toast to Steve Raddatz's memory and kick off > comprehensive and appropriate training that a few of us need - in his > name. Let's raise the bar for RV-10's. I'll drink to that! Having said all this, I must say I don't know John .... except from this list. I have to hope that some of the comments he's made here (and which I responded to) are borne of the pain from his (and our) losses. I only hope that if I depart this world early, that somebody will feel about me as John feels about his friends. I had a tough time yesterday remembering some of my fellow Vets that have gone before me ...... and I'm grateful that we don't honer them every week (as maybe we should) because it's painful for me. And maybe I'm grateful that we don't have a 'National Day of Mourning' for our fallen aviators for the same reason. I prefer to think of them now and then throughout the year ..... it kinda spreads the pain out. So, yesterday I went flying ...... and I took the memories of my 'missing' friends with me .... to share a little of my joy of flying ...... it was good therapy. Kudos to you John! I hope to get some face time with you someday ...... I think you'd be a fascinating person to get to know. Linn PS .... Y'all be safe out there! > > John Cox > #40600 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:12 AM PST US From: "pascal" Subject: RV10-List: door latch sensor location There was someone a few months back that mentioned that they moved the sensor/circuit location on the doors to a different angle to allow the magnetic pins to trigger the circuit. If anyone has that e-mail can they forward it to me? Thank you! Pascal ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:50 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Steve Raddatz From: "Perry, Phil" I'm surprised this hasn't been posted to the RV-10 list yet but................ Steve Raddatz (list contributor) was killed this weekend in a mid-air collision while flying formation. I didn't know him personally, but thought I would share for those of you who did. Here is a link with the story and some photos. http://comment-blog.advance.net/cgi-bin/mte/mt-search.cgi?tag=plane%20c r ash&blog_id=859 Phil ________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:30 AM PST US From: Danny Riggs Subject: RE: RV10-List: Steve Raddatz It's someplace else on the Van's airforce site. Just not under RV-10s. Subject: RV10-List: Steve Raddatz From: Phil.Perry@netapp.com I'm surprised this hasn't been posted to the RV-10 list yet but............ .... Steve Raddatz (list contributor) was killed this weekend in a mid-air colli sion while flying formation. I didn't know him personally=2C but thought I would share for those of you who did. Here is a link with the story and some photos. http://comment-blog.advance.net/cgi-bin/mte/mt-search.cgi?tag=plane%20cra sh&blog_id=859 Phil _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tut orial_QuickAdd1_052009 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:40 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC..... From: "jayb" My airbox pretty much follows the plans wrt to the location of retainers and filter. After drilling holes and test fitting, it's obvious that the control cable nutplate that holds the adel clamp interferes with the air filter. It would be smack dab in the middle of the filter. The cable pulls the VA-192B plate OPEN, right? If so, the nutplate can't be moved inboard. It would have to be moved out further which would cause it to be close to the curve of the airbox... and the cable would then rub against the fiberglass. What have others done? Maybe ditch the nutplate/adel clamp and glass in a tube? Thank goodness I don't have a carb as the door fab doesn't look fun at all! Cheers, Jay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245405#245405 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:12 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Filtered Air Box - FAB (Filtered air BITC..... I can't remember very well, but I did just look at mine, and I think my adel clamp is out towards the outer rear edge on the bottom. I agree with you...for a variety of reasons I'm glad I have fuel injection, one of which being that I really am glad I just had the one alternate air door to make. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive jayb wrote: > > My airbox pretty much follows the plans wrt to the location of > retainers and filter. After drilling holes and test fitting, it's > obvious that the control cable nutplate that holds the adel clamp > interferes with the air filter. It would be smack dab in the middle > of the filter. > > The cable pulls the VA-192B plate OPEN, right? If so, the nutplate > can't be moved inboard. It would have to be moved out further which > would cause it to be close to the curve of the airbox... and the > cable would then rub against the fiberglass. > > What have others done? Maybe ditch the nutplate/adel clamp and glass > in a tube? > > Thank goodness I don't have a carb as the door fab doesn't look fun > at all! > > Cheers, Jay > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245405#245405 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:24 AM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and Flight Training I couldn't agree more. I, like others I'm sure, have forsaken flying to fund this building thing but I plan on spending a number of hours in a 152/172 type aircraft getting current before I even think about going for transition training. Never even occurred to me as there being any other option and I even have a fair amount of 182 and Mooney time in my book. At one point during my misspent youth, ok so it was my 20's and I think I remember most of it, I went for 10 years without stepping foot in an aircraft other than as cattle in the back. I then got back into it, in of all the places, Washington DC about a year after Sept 11th. The airport I flew out of was so close to the TFR that if you flew the wrong pattern you would be busted. But my point is that it really was just like riding a bike. Sure I forgot some details around regs and procedures but I could takeoff, fly, and land the aircraft no problem which, after 10 years, was my greatest concern. The biggest challenge to me will be getting the knowledge polished off and my skills back to PTS standards. Throwing in getting my instrument skills up to snuff along with an IPC and I can easily see spending 50 hours flight time and way more ground to be back where I was with a fresh Commercial with multi and instrument rating those 20 years ago. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:36 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and Flight Training Geez Tim - you've just given away all my secrets. I'm a low time pilot by any standard (<150 hrs). I had not flown PIC for the last 4 years of my build. There is no way that I considered myself current to fly the -10. Jon Johanson did a marvellous job of shaking down the airframe. I umm'ed and ahhre'd about regaining some currency in a 172 or arrow before I launched into the -10. But I was convinced by Jon J and others to just get some dual with an instructor in -10, and 'get on with it'. Best decision I ever made. I found that flying was a bit like riding a bike. I now have about 6 hours PIC on my -10. I am obviously still feeling my way and have a lot to learn. But, ALL of my landings, circuits (patterns) and general flying have been better than what I recall in the past. Yes the plane is quick and you have to be careful to not let her get in front of you. But man, what a wonderful - WONDERFUL aeroplane. She is a delight to fly and makes me look a much better pilot than I know I am. Cheers, Ron VH-XRM in Oz -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Tuesday, 26 May 2009 12:33 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and Flight Training I would agree that it seems easier to land the RV-10 in the right seat than a yoke-equipped plane. I think it is the stick....it's a little more ambidextrous capable I think...just more natural than a yoke. The throttle is really the only part that messes me up. And, I'd agree that in the pattern once you get comfortable and you are no longer behind the airplane, I think that the -10 in my case is easier too, due to the trim/flaps/goodies and all, and the added size and weight for stability. The key is "once you are comfortable". You need to have a good feel for all of the basic flight maneuvers. Steep turns and even normal turns are very simple for us...but for a new student, it doesn't take much to get out of whack high or low in a turn in a light-feeling plane like the -10. The cherokee is much much more mushy and easy that way during learning. Now, once you have experience and have a good handle on everything, the -10 is a VERY easy plane to transition too, and it will make you look like a far better pilot than you probably even are. It lands easier than most any plane I've ever flown...if you fly it the way it needs to be. I've NEVER had plane that was as consistently smooth touching down as the -10. The Sundowner I had a significant amount of time in, and was very good at flying, but my "beautiful landing" percentage wasn't nearly what it is in the -10. And although I can make the Cherokee be halfway smooth too already, in the right seat, it too has just no comparison to the -10. So once a person has some experience the -10 isn't very hard to deal with. I'd think that if a zero hour pilot flies 100 hours and they did it over 2 years or less, they'd probably easily be able to transition. (currency matters) If you're under 100 hours, I think it'll just take a little more work. Under 60 and I think it would be best just to do some dual for a bit before thinking of any solo work in the -10. I know I scared myself a few times in my first 100 hours...I'd have been a disaster in the -10. What really helped me gain experience though was going into my instrument training sometime not long after the 100 hour mark. Then I was focused not on how to fly the plane, but to fly the plane according to some precise path....and the "handling" part just started to become second nature with the added 40 hours I had to do for instrument. To me, an instrument rating is the most valuable rating you can get...even simply due to a dual-time experience with an instructor. By the time you've done both you'd have over 100 hours guaranteed, and you'd be far along the path to being a lesser insurance risk...hence the reason they are requiring it more and more. I do hope to spend more time in the Right seat on the -10, too. Ultimately, once I get done helping these 2 through their private pilot stuff, I want to get in gear to do my commercial and CFI, just for the heck of it. I don't want to be paid to be a CFI, but it would come in handy some times. Oh, and you're absolutely right about the visibility in the -10. It's unparalleled for forward viz. The Sundowner was also excellent. They both are far better cockpits than the 172/182/cherokees from an ergonomic and visibility perspective. (I'm talking the later model Sundowners, like my 1977 I had) What blows me away lately is how CHEAP that cherokee is to fly. I fly for hours and hours and go to fill it up and put in a few drops of gas. Man, now that is a different feeling compared to local, rich of peak flying in the RV-10. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Jesse Saint wrote: > > I agree almost completely with your conclusions, Tim. Having spent the > last year going from first solo through 95 RV-10 hours (250TT), it is > all fairly fresh in my mind. I definitely would recommend getting > something that is easier to stay on top of while getting going. I don't > know how the RV-10 landing gear holds up under initial training, but I > know that it is hard to hurt the gear on a 172, and I know I put it > through its paces starting out. Once you get fairly comfortable flying > in general, the -10 isn't hard to stick with in the pattern, and is even > easier in some respects, especially with the flaps and trim on the > stick. It is certainly hard to get cheaper to operate than a C152 or a > Cherokee, especially when counting the insurance costs. > > One thing I will add, however, is that I think it is much easier to get > comfortable right seat in the -10 than in the other planes mentioned. > I'm not sure if it's the stick over the yoke or the better visibility or > what, but I have done the same number of landings right seat in the -10 > and the 172 and the Cherokee 180, and I can land the -10 much much > better than the other two. Tim, have you flown any right seat in the -10? > > do not archive > > Jesse Saint > Saint Aviation, Inc. > jesse@saintaviation.com > Cell: 352-427-0285 > Fax: 815-377-3694 > > On May 25, 2009, at 12:21 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > >> >> For those of you who followed the past discussions we had about >> learning to fly in an RV-10, I've gotten to see first-hand some of >> what happens to new pilots again, to refresh my memory. Recently, >> my wife and another lady have been flight training. One has about >> 20 hours now, and one has 40+. They both flew a rental Cessna 152 >> for the first 90% of the hours. I'd been hemming and hawing on what >> to do for a plane, because I hated the idea of paying $76-80/hr wet >> for a stinkin' C-152. That's a ripoff. But, they were flying that >> plane and learning. Then one day after they had about the >> above mentioned hours, we jumped in the RV-10 and I gave them a >> shot at flying that plane. It was very easy to see how they >> were instantly over their head...although the one with 40 hours >> had a better handle on the airplane, of course. Things just >> come at you too fast, and in fact, one of the instructors that >> we've now had them spending time with usually insists on full-stop >> landings for a good amount of time too, because there is too >> much in rapid-fire when you try to do touch-n-go's early on. >> >> Recently they've both transitioned into a different airplane. Get >> this.... I found a place that I can lease a Cherokee 140 Cruiser >> (160hp) for $32/hr dry + insurance. I only need to hangar the >> airplane and fill it with fuel and insure it. The insurance for >> myself, the 2 students, and an "open policy" allowing anyone >> with 250 hours to fly it, was $914/yr...and of course we get 90% >> credit back for the unused months when we return the plane. So, >> it was a no-brainer to take that deal, and I wish I'd have >> started that way when they wanted to learn how to fly. That plane >> is a little better for them to learn in, too. Transitioning >> to the plane didn't take too long, however it's still a very >> forgiving plane that is not as hard to stay behind as the RV-10. >> Not only that, but it was a good plane for me to self-learn how >> to be comfortable in the right seat. So I've been putting some >> time in lately with that plane. There are things that are easier >> in my RV-10...like you don't have to set a DG, you have electric >> flaps and trim, the spring gear makes for quiet touchdowns, >> and things like that. But from a perspective on how rapid-fire >> things go in the pattern, it is much much faster. Yesterday I >> got back in my own left seat and did a couple landings just to >> see the comparison, and it was really something to be able to >> take off, climb out, and be at pattern altitude before I even >> hit the downwind leg. When my wife tried doing a few patterns >> in the RV-10, by the time her brain caught up to the climb >> and turn, we'd be 600-700' high on downwind....things just >> happened way too fast. Anyway, it's been quite the experience >> watching 2 new pilots develop. I think that once a person has >> obtained a certificate, if they extended their training a bit >> into the RV-10, it wouldn't be such a bad experience. The one >> with 40-45 hours is much closer to being able to stay in front >> of the airplane. >> >> If someone were to insist on learning in their RV-10, I'd kind >> of think that perhaps a way to go about it would be to just >> expect that you're going to do more like 30-40 hours of dual >> up front, followed by some solo work. If you have a good >> instructor in there with you, it wouldn't be un-do-able, but it >> will definitely hinder your rate of learning to have that much >> going on in the beginning, so planning accordingly would >> be good. My best guess is that whereas 40 hours would be a >> minimum for private pilot, to learn to fly in an RV-10 might >> take that same person more like 60 hours. If you would have >> taken 60 hours, maybe it will take you 80 now. So I would >> say it might be better for your airplane and it's engine to >> just rent/lease/buy something cheap to get the training done in, >> and then move on from there...still spending a little more >> dual with the instructor. If you noticed, I paid less than >> $1000 for the insurance for those 2 new pilots, in a ~$30,000 >> airplane. That would be cheaper than spending the additional >> THOUSANDS if I could even find a place to insure a student in >> mine. Also, since I have that lease deal worked out, my wife >> can now put in a bunch of time of her own if she wants, and >> keep flying and logging time after she gets a certificate, until >> she builds the minimum of maybe 100 hours before any company >> would even touch her for the RV-10. (there was a slight chance >> that with 100 hours I could get insurance for $1000 or more >> add-on...but most companies won't touch you without 250) >> >> Sorry for the long story, but I'm sitting in a terminal building >> hanging out while one of them is out with the instructor, so >> it's just on my mind. >> >> The other thing on my mind is....this Cherokee only has a >> 2 place intercom. We sometimes stuff 3 (or maybe will even >> try 2 kids) into the back. So I need to pick up a cheap >> portable intercom. I used to own a Flightcom, and I'm hoping >> to find something like a used Flightcom IIsi. Anyone have one >> that they aren't using that they'd want to sell for a decent >> price? >> >> -- >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD >> do not archive >> >> >> >> > > "Warning: The information contained in this email and any attached files is confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free, however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to your computer." ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:13 AM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Steve Raddatz FAA data RV8 IDENTIFICATION Regis#: 875MH Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-8 Date: 05/23/2009 Time: 1815 Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: Y Missing: N Damage: Destroyed LOCATION City: DECATUR State: AL Country: US DESCRIPTION N875MH, AN EXPERIMENTAL RV-8 AIRCRAFT COLLIDED MIDAIR WITH ANOTHER AIRCRAFT, N81817, AN EXPERIMENTAL NANCHANG CJ-6A, THE ONE PERSON ON BOARD THE RV-8 WAS FATALLY INJURED, THE NANCHANG CJ-6A LANDED WITHOUT INCIDENT, DECATUR, AL INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1 # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: WEATHER: AWOS 1753Z 07006KT 7SM -RA SCT014 21/19 A3003 OTHER DATA Activity: Unknown Phase: Unknown Operation: OTHER FAA FSDO: BIRMINGHAM, AL (SO09) Entry date: 05/26/2009 _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:11 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Steve Raddatz It's someplace else on the Van's airforce site. Just not under RV-10s. _____ Subject: RV10-List: Steve Raddatz From: Phil.Perry@netapp.com I'm surprised this hasn't been posted to the RV-10 list yet but................ Steve Raddatz (list contributor) was killed this weekend in a mid-air collision while flying formation. I didn't know him personally, but thought I would share for those of you who did. Here is a link with the story and some photos. http://comment-blog.advance.net/cgi-bin/mte/mt-search.cgi?tag=plane%20crash &blog_id=859 Phil _____ ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution _____ Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. See how. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:47 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Steve Raddatz From: "John Cox" Just a side note for those who speculate. Under FAST Formation flight rules, It is not the Lead's job to keep a visual on his WING. His job is to fly the Briefing, be safe for the entire formation and fly within the capability of the least experienced wingman and the most underpowered formation aircraft. It is the Wingman's job not to lose sight of his Lead. hence the need of the canopy requirement. Communication is typically done visually through Hand Signals and not audibly. The reports are that both pilots lost visual with each other. I have not heard mentioned which was the Wingman. Reports on the Aero-News Net was that BJ's plane returned to field with wingtip damage (CJ's are built like Chinese or Russian flying Tanks) and the RV spar snapped off in-flight after an overlap. Everything else is tragic speculation. RIP John C From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:17 AM Subject: RV10-List: Steve Raddatz I'm surprised this hasn't been posted to the RV-10 list yet but................ Steve Raddatz (list contributor) was killed this weekend in a mid-air collision while flying formation. I didn't know him personally, but thought I would share for those of you who did. Here is a link with the story and some photos. http://comment-blog.advance.net/cgi-bin/mte/mt-search.cgi?tag=plane%20c r ash&blog_id=859 Phil ________________________________ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:55 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and Flight Training From: "Bob Turner" " I would like to know how many women there are who have RV10 type ratings" Neil, Not sure what the story is in NZ but here in the US there is no such thing as an RV10 type rating. As far as the FAA is concerned, if you have a private license (or even a student license and an instructor sign off) you can just hop in and fly it. (There is a "high performance" (e.g., over 200 HP) instructor endorsement required, but that can be done in a 182, etc.). The real regulation is done by the insurance companies. And if you can afford to (or choose the risk of) fly without insurance, then there is almost no regulation. There have been a few cases of very wealthy, and very inexperienced, pilots doing bad things to very expensive airplanes. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245414#245414 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:32 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: How do you change the VFR code on the Garmin GTX 330 From: "Michael Wellenzohn" Hi there, I tried to change the VFR code from 1200 (preset by default) to 7000 as we have it here in Europe per instructions from the installation manual. For some reason after a power cycle the VFR code is back at 1200. Did anyone else experience the same issue? Michael -------- RV-10 builder (engine, prop, finishing) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245422#245422 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:44:34 AM PST US From: Neil & Sarah Colliver Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and Flight Training That sounds better than our system. We even need separate endorsements for different types of GPS, i.e. Garmin 430 / Chelton / G900 etc! In that case, can anyone have a guess at how many women regularly fly PIC in an RV10? Neil On 27/05/2009, at 5:23 AM, Bob Turner wrote: > > " I would like to know how many women there are who have > RV10 type ratings" > > Neil, > > Not sure what the story is in NZ but here in the US there is no such > thing as an RV10 type rating. As far as the FAA is concerned, if you > have a private license (or even a student license and an instructor > sign off) you can just hop in and fly it. (There is a "high > performance" (e.g., over 200 HP) instructor endorsement required, > but that can be done in a 182, etc.). > > The real regulation is done by the insurance companies. And if you > can afford to (or choose the risk of) fly without insurance, then > there is almost no regulation. There have been a few cases of very > wealthy, and very inexperienced, pilots doing bad things to very > expensive airplanes. > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245414#245414 > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:12 AM PST US From: linn Subject: Re: RV10-List: Steve Raddatz I feel like John and I are having a little conversation here, so pardon my comment ..... John Cox wrote: > > Just a side note for those who speculate. > Nobody should. If you do, keep it to yourself and wait for some FACTS. > > Under FAST Formation flight rules, It is not the Lead's job to keep > a visual on his WING. His job is to fly the Briefing, be safe for the > entire formation and fly within the capability of the least > experienced wingman and the most underpowered formation aircraft. It > is the Wingman's job not to lose sight of his Lead. > I don't have a FAST card, or that level of training, so bear with me. My understanding is if you lose sight of your 'lead' (may not be the flight leader) you pitch up and out .... and let the flight know by radio. > > hence the need of the canopy requirement. > John, please expand on the 'canopy requirement'. Educate me. > > Communication is typically done visually through Hand Signals and not > audibly. The reports are that both pilots lost visual with each > other. I have not heard mentioned which was the Wingman. > And until the CJ pilot makes his report, I doubt if we'll know exactly what the situation was. Anything less, and we're in the speculation or 'rumor' mode, and that doesn't help anyone. > > Reports on the Aero-News Net was that BJ's plane returned to field > with wingtip damage (CJ's are built like Chinese or Russian flying > Tanks) and the RV spar snapped off in-flight after an overlap. > Everything else is tragic speculation. > And you already know how John (and I) feel about that. Hopefully we will get the REAL story in the future, and we can learn from it. > > > > RIP > Yes, indeed. Linn > > > > John C > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:10:03 PM PST US From: "SteinAir, Inc." Subject: RE: RV10-List: How do you change the VFR code on the Garmin GTX 330 Hi Michael, When in the configuration menu, you have to ensure that your cursor is completely been moved out of the options for changing entries. I think you probably just need to move the cursor a few more times in that configuration menu before exiting out of setup and re-starting the Txpdr in normal mode. I'm not 100% sure this is your issue, but I'm fairly confident it is. Cheers, Stein _________________________________________ >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael >Wellenzohn >Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 1:19 PM >To: rv10-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV10-List: How do you change the VFR code on the Garmin GTX 330 > > > > >Hi there, >I tried to change the VFR code from 1200 (preset by default) to >7000 as we have it here in Europe per instructions from the >installation manual. For some reason after a power cycle the VFR >code is back at 1200. > >Did anyone else experience the same issue? > >Michael > >-------- >RV-10 builder (engine, prop, finishing) >#511 > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245422#245422 > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:37:58 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger From: "jayb" The Fuel System section FF4-3 calls out fabrication of a hanger using a "crating strap". My crates are long gone and I'm assuming that a piece of strap isn't included in the kit... Anyone have ideas about what could be used instead? I have a pretty good collection of odds and ends in my homer bucket that might provide possible candidates. If all else fails, Home Depot is just down the road. Cheers, Jay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245431#245431 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:40:46 PM PST US From: "SteinAir, Inc." Subject: RE: RV10-List: Steve Raddatz Hi All, Just passing this information along: A memorial service for Steve Raddatz will be held on Wednesday may 27 from 5-7 pm at Morrison funeral home, 825 N. Main st. Tuscumbia Al. 35674. Ph. 256-383-7311. Another memorial service will be held on Saturday at Konrad and Belhman funeral home in Oshkosh, Wi. Ph. 920-232-5485. I don't have much else to add to this discussion as I don't have all the facts. I do know that Steve was a friend, a colleague, fellow RV nut / Vrod driver, and all around really great guy. He'll be missed. Regards, Stein do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:54 PM PST US From: "pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger not seeing the step you're asking about. I have Tim's 12/08/06 version and there is no reference to a crating strap on page FF4-3 -------------------------------------------------- From: "jayb" Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:36 PM Subject: RV10-List: Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger > > The Fuel System section FF4-3 calls out fabrication of a hanger using a > "crating strap". My crates are long gone and I'm assuming that a piece of > strap isn't included in the kit... > > Anyone have ideas about what could be used instead? I have a pretty good > collection of odds and ends in my homer bucket that might provide possible > candidates. If all else fails, Home Depot is just down the road. > > Cheers, > Jay > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245431#245431 > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:38 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger From: "jayb" FF4-3 Rev 0 is attached... Jay pascal(at)rv10builder.net wrote: > not seeing the step you're asking about. I have Tim's 12/08/06 version and > there is no reference to a crating strap on page FF4-3 > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jayb" > Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:36 PM > To: > Subject: Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger > > > > > > > > The Fuel System section FF4-3 calls out fabrication of a hanger using a > > "crating strap". My crates are long gone and I'm assuming that a piece of > > strap isn't included in the kit... > > > > Anyone have ideas about what could be used instead? I have a pretty good > > collection of odds and ends in my homer bucket that might provide possible > > candidates. If all else fails, Home Depot is just down the road. > > > > Cheers, > > Jay > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 45431#245431 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245438#245438 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ff4_3_926.pdf ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:57 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" Maybe call John A. - he just got his RV-9 wing kit! Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jayb Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 3:37 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger FF4-3 Rev 0 is attached... Jay pascal(at)rv10builder.net wrote: > not seeing the step you're asking about. I have Tim's 12/08/06 version and > there is no reference to a crating strap on page FF4-3 > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jayb" > Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:36 PM > To: > Subject: Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger > > > > > > > > The Fuel System section FF4-3 calls out fabrication of a hanger using a > > "crating strap". My crates are long gone and I'm assuming that a piece of > > strap isn't included in the kit... > > > > Anyone have ideas about what could be used instead? I have a pretty good > > collection of odds and ends in my homer bucket that might provide possible > > candidates. If all else fails, Home Depot is just down the road. > > > > Cheers, > > Jay > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 45431#245431 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245438#245438 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ff4_3_926.pdf ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:09 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: How do you change the VFR code on the Garmin GTX 330 From: "Michael Wellenzohn" Stein I'll try this again but I went through other menus and returned to the VFR ID menu to check if the 7000 code is still there, and it was. However after the power cycle the unit came up with 1200 again. I'll keep trying it must be possible. Michael -------- RV-10 builder (engine, prop, finishing) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245440#245440 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:46 PM PST US From: "John Jessen" Subject: RV10-List: 2009 Spring NW RV-10 Builders and Fliers BBQ Just an FYI. For those RV-10 Builders or Flyers living anywhere near the Northwest of the US who might want to join our twice a year gatherings, please take note that the 2009 RV-10 builders and flyers social get-together is happening this Sunday, May 31st, at 1pm, at Lenhardt airpark outside of Hubbard, Oregon. I know for sure that I do not have all NW RV-10 builders on the distribution list, so if you have not gotten any of our communications about this event, please send me an email off list. For those of you who might suddenly have Sunday free, whether you live within the US NW or not, and who might want to join us, great! Drop me a line off list and I'll get you set up with all the information. For those who might want to attend these gatherings in the future, I encourage you to send me your contact information as well. We've had folks come in from many parts of the US and Canada, timing their trip in part to join us for our dinners. Many folks on our current list have not yet been able to attend, but want to know when the next one is on the off chance that they'll be available. The "fall" meeting is scheduled on August 28th, Independence Airpark, the night before Van's Homecoming. My best, John Jessen ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:25 PM PST US From: "Fred Williams, M.D." Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger Jay; Looks like all they are trying to do is make an inexpensive bracket to keep the two hoses from chafing. You could use some aluminum angle and put two pieces back to back and make the same bracket. Clearance hole for the bolt in one angle and longer rivets to hold the hole thing together. Dr Fred. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:08 PM PST US From: "pascal" Subject: RV10-List: Latest Revision of the FF kit I sent Jay the Rev 1. Dated 12/08/2006- same as is on Tim's site. Can someone who just got their FF kit tell me what revision their plans have? Thanks! Pascal -------------------------------------------------- From: "jayb" Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 1:37 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger > > FF4-3 Rev 0 is attached... > > Jay > > > pascal(at)rv10builder.net wrote: >> not seeing the step you're asking about. I have Tim's 12/08/06 version >> and >> there is no reference to a crating strap on page FF4-3 >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "jayb" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:36 PM >> To: >> Subject: Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger >> >> >> > >> > >> > The Fuel System section FF4-3 calls out fabrication of a hanger using >> > a >> > "crating strap". My crates are long gone and I'm assuming that a piece >> > of >> > strap isn't included in the kit... >> > >> > Anyone have ideas about what could be used instead? I have a pretty >> > good >> > collection of odds and ends in my homer bucket that might provide >> > possible >> > candidates. If all else fails, Home Depot is just down the road. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Jay >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Read this topic online here: >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 45431#245431 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245438#245438 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/ff4_3_926.pdf > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:17 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel System Section FF4-3 ... Crating Strap Hanger From: "jayb" Someone pointed out to me that there's a newer FF4 revision. It doesn't mention the goofy bracket. Thanks! Jay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245455#245455 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:41 PM PST US From: "John Jessen" Subject: RE: RV10-List: N44YH - First Flight A delayed, but hearty congratulations! Just got to be a thrill and then some. John J -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jkreidler Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 4:29 AM Subject: RV10-List: N44YH - First Flight --> Yesterday we took N44YH on its first flight. All parts landed in the same formation they departed, so all is good. Jason Kreidler 4 Partner Build - #40617 - Sheboygan Falls, WI Kyle Hokel Tony Kolar Wayne Elsner Jason Kreidler N44YH - FLYING!!!!! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245114#245114 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:42 PM PST US From: "John Jessen" Subject: RE: RV10-List: First Flight Yikes! Another one! Congratulations and safe skies. John J -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of egohr1 Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 12:16 PM Subject: RV10-List: First Flight --> This morning N410EG, SN40271 broke the surly bonds of the earth for the first time. The RV grin will not wash off the pilots face. Eric Gohr -------- eric gohr EGOHR86@alumni.carnegiemellon.edu Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245166#245166 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:42 PM PST US From: "John Jessen" Subject: RE: RV10-List: N2GB - First Flight Good grief. It's a contagion! Congratulations, Gary. Blue skies to you and your Pink Panther. John J -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:43 PM Subject: RV10-List: N2GB - First Flight Looks like this weekend is a popular date for first flights. Yesterday 2GB (AKA the Pink Panther for now) took to the air for the first time. My wife still has to climb a latter to get to me, I am so high. What a great plane the -10 is. A real pleasure to land. -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 Final Finishing - SB (N2GB registered) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245201#245201 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pict0038_169.jpg ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:32 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RV10-List: Portable oxygen I started looking at my existing portable systems and concluded that the 50 CU tanks will not fit. I am considering an aluminum tank approximately 30" long and 4.375" diameter. to secure to the center tunnel and between the rear seats. Anyone else done this? ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:14 PM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pilot Proficiency vs RV10 'flyability' Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and Flight Training I've been watching this thread and biting my tongue a bit. It seems that we are mixing 2 issues. 1. Pilot proficiency or lack there of. 2. How hard/easy to fly is the RV10. I'm probably going to get thumped for what I'm about to say, but I think that the RV10 is a relatively easy airplane to fly. Now I say that based on my experience which is different from others. I'm not a hot stick, and if you witnessed my landing Sat you would quickly agree. Since the RV10 has a higher HP and a constant speed prop, it does have some inherent complexity that trainer aircraft do not have. And learning these skills will decidedly add to the learning curve for a new or lower time pilot. But transitioning from a trainer to a complex high performance aircraft doesn't (shouldn't) double the amount of training / learning. Additionally I think there is something to be said for the learning advantage that accrues from flying the same aircraft flight after flight. The biggest variable in the learning to fly equation is the capability and mindset of the individual. As individuals we all vary widely and I encourage everyone to be honest and conservative in our individual self assessments about our abilities and our respect for all of the unexpected things that can happen in aviation. Commercial aviation has proven statistically that re currency for even the most experienced aviator pays high dividends in safety. I just don't want people to be unnecessarily scared or worried about the RV10. As a point of reference, I've recently flown a couple of local friends RV7's which have flight characteristics which are IMO much more sensitive/critical than the RV10. Yet there are many people that transition successfully into RV6, 7's and 8's with relatively low time. I maintain the RV10 is an easy airplane to fly. Flying it or any other aircraft well, and flying them safely is a matter of pilot capability and proficiency. Deems Davis N519PJ 28 hrs of 'expert' opinion > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:15 PM PST US From: "Dave Leikam" Subject: RV10-List: Ground block For those who have a G900x panel IO-540 which ground block did you install? 24/48 tab or 24/24? Dave Leikam RV-10 #40496 N89DA (Reserved) Muskego, WI ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:32 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Portable oxygen That's what I do, but with a portable. I need to get some anchors set in there to strap it down nice, but for now I just set it between the seats. I want quick release for sure, because I don't leave it in the plane all the time. Any shorter trips I tend to try to do at 10,500' or less. Actually, I think it's precise flight, the one I have, that has a system made for the Cirrus with a special bag and all and that's what they do too. So it's plenty common. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive David McNeill wrote: > I started looking at my existing portable systems and concluded that the > 50 CU tanks will not fit. I am considering an aluminum tank > approximately 30" long and 4.375" diameter. to secure to the center > tunnel and between the rear seats. Anyone else done this? > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pilot Proficiency vs RV10 'flyability' From: Dj Merrill On 5/26/2009 10:43 PM, Deems Davis wrote: > But transitioning from a trainer to a complex high > performance aircraft doesn't (shouldn't) double the amount of training / > learning. Additionally I think there is something to be said for the > learning advantage that accrues from flying the same aircraft flight > after flight. Hi Deems, I agree with your thoughts. It took me about 10 hours of dual to transition from a Cessna 150 to a Glasair 1 FT, and at the time I had about 200 hours in only Cessna aircraft. At 10 hours I certainly didn't feel like an expert, but I felt that I could fly the plane safely. I don't have very much time in a -10, but the little I do have felt like the -10 flies somewhat like a Glasair, only not as quick and sensitive (ie, the -10 is little easier). The Glasair is closer to a -7. As long as a pilot gets the proper dual training until they feel safe, and not put a time limit on it, I think they'd do fine in a -10. -Dj ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:23 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Pilot Proficiency vs RV10 'flyability' I think you might have added "pilot judgment". Many of the problems that have occurred within the RV10 community are judgment related. I won't rehash the details of previous lapse of RV10 judgment but given enough flight time and experience, the RV10 is a delight to fly. Each time I fly my Glastar I think I am back in a car without power steering. Judgment is hard to teach. The crash in AZ last Saturday night was a case in point. The aircraft was single engine and operating IIRC in marginal conditions at midnight over mountainous northern AZ. The moon was not visible. The odds of a favorable outcome if anything goes wrong are small. A superior pilot once said that he used his superior judgment in order to avoid having to demonstrate his superior skill. As more 10s fly, take the time to acquire the necessary skills to fly it "right". If you want an interesting exercise look each day at the experimental NTSB summary of accidents as OSH approaches. For each accident look to see whether that is a new flight test phase aircraft or not. You will find many are or are aircraft of priors years where the pilot may be trying to get proficient to fly to OSH. Evaluate the risks and fly safe. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:43 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pilot Proficiency vs RV10 'flyability' Slightly Off Topic: Portable intercom and Flight Training I've been watching this thread and biting my tongue a bit. It seems that we are mixing 2 issues. 1. Pilot proficiency or lack there of. 2. How hard/easy to fly is the RV10. I'm probably going to get thumped for what I'm about to say, but I think that the RV10 is a relatively easy airplane to fly. Now I say that based on my experience which is different from others. I'm not a hot stick, and if you witnessed my landing Sat you would quickly agree. Since the RV10 has a higher HP and a constant speed prop, it does have some inherent complexity that trainer aircraft do not have. And learning these skills will decidedly add to the learning curve for a new or lower time pilot. But transitioning from a trainer to a complex high performance aircraft doesn't (shouldn't) double the amount of training / learning. Additionally I think there is something to be said for the learning advantage that accrues from flying the same aircraft flight after flight. The biggest variable in the learning to fly equation is the capability and mindset of the individual. As individuals we all vary widely and I encourage everyone to be honest and conservative in our individual self assessments about our abilities and our respect for all of the unexpected things that can happen in aviation. Commercial aviation has proven statistically that re currency for even the most experienced aviator pays high dividends in safety. I just don't want people to be unnecessarily scared or worried about the RV10. As a point of reference, I've recently flown a couple of local friends RV7's which have flight characteristics which are IMO much more sensitive/critical than the RV10. Yet there are many people that transition successfully into RV6, 7's and 8's with relatively low time. I maintain the RV10 is an easy airplane to fly. Flying it or any other aircraft well, and flying them safely is a matter of pilot capability and proficiency. Deems Davis N519PJ 28 hrs of 'expert' opinion > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:40 PM PST US From: "Les Kearney" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Portable oxygen David The tunnel is unavailable to me so I decided to mount my O2 tank just behind the left back seat. I used brackets from Mountain High (the retaining bands are not shown) to mount my existing portable tank. I fabbed a cover to protect the valve and regulator. In my case, I will have a panel mount actuator and plan to plum the O2 access points in as well. I have a center console which will hold the O2 and intercom outlets for the front and rear seats. I am not sure of this is of use to you, but there are a number of options available. I have recently seen a site where the O2 bottle was suspended below a hat rack that was installed in the tunnel as well. Cheers Les #40643 - Living in a f/g world _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill Sent: May-26-09 8:24 PM Subject: RV10-List: Portable oxygen I started looking at my existing portable systems and concluded that the 50 CU tanks will not fit. I am considering an aluminum tank approximately 30" long and 4.375" diameter. to secure to the center tunnel and between the rear seats. Anyone else done this? ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:39 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pilot Proficiency vs RV10 'flyability' Don't get me wrong, I'm not on an extreme as far as I'm concerned. I think that the -10 is very easy to fly, if you stay ahead of it. ANY airplane that you don't stay ahead of is hard to fly. So for me I'm not saying that you need "double" the training or anything like that. In an ideal world, flying would be cheap and everyone could quickly go out and put on 250 hours of time. But it won't work that way for most people. I just think that there are so many things that those of us who have gained some experience end up forgetting and taking for granted. Things that we don't remember anymore, but at the time it was a real challenge, so a pilot should get good instruction, get extra instruction for a slippery and high performance plane, but also fly it conservatively for a good amount of time too. Dj, you noted that you had 200 hours in only Cessnas. That's HUGE. Certainly with that amount of time you gained a lot of skill and experience. So no, transitioning to the -10, for a current pilot, I wouldn't think would be tough at all at that point. I think under 100 hours it would get tougher and tougher as you get lower in time. A lot of it again has to do with how compact that timeframe is too. 200 hours over 2 years is a lot of flying. Someone who does that will have an easier time than someone with 75 hours over 5 years of flying. And, of course, there are those who will just be quicker or slower to adapt than others. The RV-6/7/8 are all definitely a notch above ours for how sensitive they would be to transition to. So no, I think the -10 is really easy to fly, myself. For me I transitioned right from a "Slowdowner" (with some 182RG and Sierra retract time) with no problem, and I probably could have easily from any point after my first 150 hours. I probably still took a bunch of benefit from all those hours beyond that point that I had...but the benefits were less. My main point was that the -10 probably wasn't the best TRAINER plane for people. Once you gather time and experience, it's definitely not one to fear. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Dj Merrill wrote: > > On 5/26/2009 10:43 PM, Deems Davis wrote: >> But transitioning from a trainer to a complex high >> performance aircraft doesn't (shouldn't) double the amount of training / >> learning. Additionally I think there is something to be said for the >> learning advantage that accrues from flying the same aircraft flight >> after flight. > > Hi Deems, > I agree with your thoughts. It took me about 10 hours of dual to > transition from a Cessna 150 to a Glasair 1 FT, and at the time I had > about 200 hours in only Cessna aircraft. At 10 hours I certainly didn't > feel like an expert, but I felt that I could fly the plane safely. I > don't have very much time in a -10, but the little I do have felt like > the -10 flies somewhat like a Glasair, only not as quick and sensitive > (ie, the -10 is little easier). The Glasair is closer to a -7. > > As long as a pilot gets the proper dual training until they feel safe, > and not put a time limit on it, I think they'd do fine in a -10. > > -Dj > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:23 PM PST US From: "Dave Saylor" Subject: RV10-List: Portable oxygen Here are some photos of my center console. It has an E bottle inside, on top of the tunnel. All of the parts were mix-and-match from Aerox. The console attaches with two hinge pins up the sides (what else...?) The ox system started as their portable kit. The standard valve protrudes from the front of the console, and the round tube loosely surrounds the quantity gauge, seen by looking straight down. It works really well, but I do plan to put a filler port in the console somewhere. Now I have to remove it for filling, which takes about 15 minutes in/out. If there was enough interest for 5 or 10 of these, I'd sell them complete (without upholstry) for about $2500, including the bottle and interior plumbing. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:00 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Steve Raddatz From: "fdombroski" I spent last week with Steve in Alabama, and flew with him Friday. I can tell you that Steve was an exceptional pilot, craftsman and person. He lived life with great gusto, and radiated enthusiasm for all he enjoyed. This is a tragic loss; he will be missed by many. RIP Steve. -------- Frank Dombroski RV-10 N46WD final assembly RV-8 N84FD final assembly N40 Sky Manor Airport Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245516#245516 ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:30 PM PST US From: "richard sipp" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pilot Proficiency vs RV10 'flyability' Deems: I think your opinion is spot on. This has been a great thread and deserves to continue. There are many more folk's thoughts out there that would add a lot to the conversation. Vic S.? I had 750 hours in an RV4 and 13,000 in transport/military aircraft and would not have considered flying the 10 without some dual before the first flight. (flew 3 hours with Jerry VanGrunsven). As you say the 10 is not a difficult airplane at all to fly well, but with all the training resources available now, why would one not want to become at least familiar with the type before flying one on the first flight. The first flight in an airplane you built is not the time to be doing self instructed transition training. A few hours, at least, in a relaxed training environment will pay huge benefits in the early flights in our own new airplane. Throughout commercial aviation, formal training in a new type is required regardless of previous experience. If the 10, like the other RVs, have a fault it is that they fly so well, are so responsive, they quickly build the self confidence of their pilots, perhaps too much so. The sports models all beg to rolled, looped, flown in formation, etc - Total Performance - right? My guess would be that most 10 pilots value the productivity of their 4 place efficient cross country SUV. Most 10s are well equipped for IFR, beg to cover a lot of ground through changing weather patterns, and often carry one or more family or friends. I find my mental attitude to be very differnent in this environment than it was by myself in the 4. Satisfaction now comes from providing a comfortable travel experience for the passengers while continually refining flight procedures to get the most out of that expensive instrument panel. With 130 hours I am still learning how to get the most out of myself, the avionics, and the airplane. The process of trying to continually improve will provide satisfaction for a long time to come. We all take pride in deciding to become part of the most successful experimental aircraft line ever. As the fleet and flight hours set new records every day we as a group become more and more visable. Our record and reputation is good but can always be improved. The past few days have been costly to the family and deserve renewed commitment to safety. Can a wife or any other women fly the 10? Of course. If they can fly F-15s, catch the third wire on carrier in an F-18, or qualify for the Thunderbirds, the 10, after good training, will be a walk in the park. Dick Sipp N110DV ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:30 PM PST US From: Vernon Smith Subject: RE: RV10-List: Portable oxygen I have the same basic idea and am going to use the Aerox 22 cu. ft. E cylin der. Should supply 4 people for 8 hours at 15=2C000ft. while using the Oxys aver cannulas. Their mounting brackets for the tank are part number BR-CDE. Vern Smith #324 (finishing) From: dlm46007@cox.net Subject: RV10-List: Portable oxygen I started looking at my existing portable systems and concluded that the 50 CU tanks will not fi t. I am considering an aluminum tank approximately 30" long and 4.375" diameter. to secure to the center tunnel and between the rear seats. Anyone else done this? _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 11:28:43 PM PST US From: Werner Schneider Subject: Re: RV10-List: How do you change the VFR code on the Garmin GTX 330 Hi Michael, be aware, that you do the right procedure to SAVE that new code at the end. Mine has 7000 and it stays 7000 ;o) Werner Michael Wellenzohn wrote: > > Hi there, > I tried to change the VFR code from 1200 (preset by default) to 7000 as we have it here in Europe per instructions from the installation manual. For some reason after a power cycle the VFR code is back at 1200. > > Did anyone else experience the same issue? > > Michael > > -------- > RV-10 builder (engine, prop, finishing) > #511 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245422#245422 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.