Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:47 AM - First Long Cross-Country (dmaib@mac.com)
2. 08:41 AM - Fiberglass fairings question (Kent Ogden)
3. 08:52 AM - Re: First Long Cross-Country (Jesse Saint)
4. 09:12 AM - Re: Fiberglass fairings question (Tim Olson)
5. 09:41 AM - Re: First Long Cross-Country (David Maib)
6. 09:42 AM - Very Nice RV 10 (John Cumins)
7. 09:43 AM - Re: Fiberglass fairings question (John Gonzalez)
8. 09:52 AM - Re: Fiberglass fairings question (orchidman)
9. 09:54 AM - Re: Fiberglass fairings question (Kent Ogden)
10. 09:54 AM - Re: Fiberglass fairings question (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
11. 10:05 AM - Dan Lloyd RV-10 accident report is out (Les Kearney)
12. 10:53 AM - Re: OSH 2009 Camping / Flying-in / Parking (bcondrey)
13. 11:04 AM - Re: Dan Lloyd RV-10 accident report is out (Mike Much)
14. 11:34 AM - Re: Dan Lloyd RV-10 accident report is out (pascal)
15. 11:34 AM - Re: Very Nice RV 10 (John Cox)
16. 11:56 AM - Re: Dan Lloyd RV-10 accident report is out (Tim Olson)
17. 01:52 PM - Re: Dan Lloyd RV-10 accident report is out (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
18. 02:20 PM - Trip to Maine (John Testement)
19. 03:37 PM - a lesson learned (Rob Kermanj)
20. 03:51 PM - Re: Trip to Maine (Jay Rowe)
21. 04:13 PM - Re: Trip to Maine (ricksked@embarqmail.com)
22. 05:43 PM - Re: Trip to Maine (DejaVu)
23. 06:08 PM - Re: Trip to Maine (Dj Merrill)
24. 06:08 PM - Re: a lesson learned (Miller John)
25. 06:40 PM - Re: a lesson learned (Rob Kermanj)
26. 06:48 PM - Re: a lesson learned (Kelly McMullen)
27. 07:20 PM - O2 (David McNeill)
28. 07:34 PM - Re: a lesson learned (Rob Kermanj)
29. 08:42 PM - Re: a lesson learned (richard sipp)
30. 09:18 PM - Re: Fiberglass fairings question (richard sipp)
31. 11:14 PM - Re: Dan Lloyd RV-10 accident report is out (Dave Leikam)
Message 1
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| Subject: | First Long Cross-Country |
Mary and I had to travel from our home in New Smyrna Beach, FL to Wichita, KS last
week. The reason for the trip was a sad one. Her father was ill and we found
out on our first fuel stop that he had passed away early that morning.
The great circle distance from KEVB to KICT is roughly 1025 NM. The RV-10 really
does a nice job on a trip like this.
Our trip to Wichita included a fuel stop at General DeWit Spain airport in Memphis.
(M01) Great airport with friendly folks and decent fuel prices. ($3.75) I
found out that overnight hangar space is available for $25 per night. We have
friends in Memphis that we plan to visit, so this will be my airport of choice.
Met some fellow RV-10 flyers at the airport.
We flew into the main airport in Wichita (KICT) since it was closest to where we
were staying. Additionally, they had a decent self-serve fuel price ($3.82)
at Yingling Aviation. There are other FBO choices on the field, but I found the
service at Yingling to be outstanding. They got me space in a T hangar for the
week stay. It was fairly pricey, but they are willing to work with you. Yingling
is defintely my FBO of choice in Wichita.
The trip home yesterday included a fuel stop at the Shelby County airport in Alabaster,
AL. (KEET) We had used this airport when ferrying the airplane to FL
last winter. Great new facility, decent fuel price, ($3.52) excellent and friendly
service, and RV folks on the airport. We could have made the trip yesterday
non-stop with our SafeAir 1 extended range tanks, but our Mark II standard
range bladders ruled the day.
We averaged a 15 knot headwind all the way to KICT and had essentially no wind
all of the way home. Used altitudes from 7000' to 11,000'. Here are a couple of
screen shots of the Cheltons and the Vertical Power on the 11,000' leg. Love
those fuel specifics!
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249953#249953
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0309_192.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0308_656.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0307_182.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0306_965.jpg
Message 2
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| Subject: | Fiberglass fairings question |
Hi all,
I have a question about the fiberglass fairings on the tail group. If
installed as per the instructions, will the paint at the joint between
fiberglass and Aluminum crack over time with expansion/contraction? I
recall postings about this kind of phenomenon related to the windscreen. In
anyone's opinion, is it worth the effort of glassing over the joint/rivets
and then filling to smooth, or is this just extra weight/effort? I would
like to finish this up before really getting into my wings so I don't have
to come back to it later.
Kent Ogden
#40710 Wings (just barely)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: First Long Cross-Country |
That's a really nice panel, David. Did Stein do it?
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Jun 25, 2009, at 10:46 AM, dmaib@mac.com wrote:
>
> Mary and I had to travel from our home in New Smyrna Beach, FL to
> Wichita, KS last week. The reason for the trip was a sad one. Her
> father was ill and we found out on our first fuel stop that he had
> passed away early that morning.
>
> The great circle distance from KEVB to KICT is roughly 1025 NM. The
> RV-10 really does a nice job on a trip like this.
>
> Our trip to Wichita included a fuel stop at General DeWit Spain
> airport in Memphis. (M01) Great airport with friendly folks and
> decent fuel prices. ($3.75) I found out that overnight hangar space
> is available for $25 per night. We have friends in Memphis that we
> plan to visit, so this will be my airport of choice. Met some fellow
> RV-10 flyers at the airport.
>
> We flew into the main airport in Wichita (KICT) since it was closest
> to where we were staying. Additionally, they had a decent self-serve
> fuel price ($3.82) at Yingling Aviation. There are other FBO choices
> on the field, but I found the service at Yingling to be outstanding.
> They got me space in a T hangar for the week stay. It was fairly
> pricey, but they are willing to work with you. Yingling is defintely
> my FBO of choice in Wichita.
>
> The trip home yesterday included a fuel stop at the Shelby County
> airport in Alabaster, AL. (KEET) We had used this airport when
> ferrying the airplane to FL last winter. Great new facility, decent
> fuel price, ($3.52) excellent and friendly service, and RV folks on
> the airport. We could have made the trip yesterday non-stop with our
> SafeAir 1 extended range tanks, but our Mark II standard range
> bladders ruled the day.
>
> We averaged a 15 knot headwind all the way to KICT and had
> essentially no wind all of the way home. Used altitudes from 7000'
> to 11,000'. Here are a couple of screen shots of the Cheltons and
> the Vertical Power on the 11,000' leg. Love those fuel specifics!
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249953#249953
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0309_192.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0308_656.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0307_182.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0306_965.jpg
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass fairings question |
I haven't had cracking on my fiberglass tips. But, I wish I
had used screws on the bottom rudder fairing and the forward tip
fairing on the vertical stab. If I had used screws, running wires
for my rudder trim would have been easier, and also I could
easier mount a camera in the vertical stab. Since they're
not removable it's a bigger chore. For the horizontal
stab tips though, and the rudder top tip, I think glassing them
in looks nice and see no reason not to.
If you know you'll never do a camera up top, you could glass
that one too.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Kent Ogden wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have a question about the fiberglass fairings on the tail group. If
> installed as per the instructions, will the paint at the joint between
> fiberglass and Aluminum crack over time with expansion/contraction? I
> recall postings about this kind of phenomenon related to the
> windscreen. In anyone's opinion, is it worth the effort of glassing
> over the joint/rivets and then filling to smooth, or is this just extra
> weight/effort? I would like to finish this up before really getting
> into my wings so I don't have to come back to it later.
>
> Kent Ogden
> #40710 Wings (just barely)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: First Long Cross-Country |
Thanks, Jesse. That is a SteinAir panel.
David
On Jun 25, 2009, at 11:47 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
That's a really nice panel, David. Did Stein do it?
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Jun 25, 2009, at 10:46 AM, dmaib@mac.com wrote:
>
> Mary and I had to travel from our home in New Smyrna Beach, FL to
> Wichita, KS last week. The reason for the trip was a sad one. Her
> father was ill and we found out on our first fuel stop that he had
> passed away early that morning.
>
> The great circle distance from KEVB to KICT is roughly 1025 NM. The
> RV-10 really does a nice job on a trip like this.
>
> Our trip to Wichita included a fuel stop at General DeWit Spain
> airport in Memphis. (M01) Great airport with friendly folks and
> decent fuel prices. ($3.75) I found out that overnight hangar space
> is available for $25 per night. We have friends in Memphis that we
> plan to visit, so this will be my airport of choice. Met some
> fellow RV-10 flyers at the airport.
>
> We flew into the main airport in Wichita (KICT) since it was
> closest to where we were staying. Additionally, they had a decent
> self-serve fuel price ($3.82) at Yingling Aviation. There are other
> FBO choices on the field, but I found the service at Yingling to be
> outstanding. They got me space in a T hangar for the week stay. It
> was fairly pricey, but they are willing to work with you. Yingling
> is defintely my FBO of choice in Wichita.
>
> The trip home yesterday included a fuel stop at the Shelby County
> airport in Alabaster, AL. (KEET) We had used this airport when
> ferrying the airplane to FL last winter. Great new facility, decent
> fuel price, ($3.52) excellent and friendly service, and RV folks on
> the airport. We could have made the trip yesterday non-stop with
> our SafeAir 1 extended range tanks, but our Mark II standard range
> bladders ruled the day.
>
> We averaged a 15 knot headwind all the way to KICT and had
> essentially no wind all of the way home. Used altitudes from 7000'
> to 11,000'. Here are a couple of screen shots of the Cheltons and
> the Vertical Power on the 11,000' leg. Love those fuel specifics!
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249953#249953
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0309_192.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0308_656.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0307_182.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0306_965.jpg
>
>
Message 6
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I Went out to Nut Tree Airport VCB and what did I see a very shiny bright
red RV-10. It was awesome, the owner was from the Fresno area as far as I
could figure out. I wish I was able to meet him but it was not to be.
The plane was very nice extremely high quality build and absolutely
beautiful, being a beginner just starting the process of building it was
very much a motivator for me.
A friend drove by and told me to quit drooling. I just had to take pics
while I was there.
John G. Cumins
40864 elevators priming
Message 7
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| Subject: | Fiberglass fairings question |
I used the pop rivets on the rudder faring and seqaled over the gap nice an
d smooth. Believe you will not see the crack you are speaking of as the pop
rivets are hold the fibeglass to the metal rudder skin. I then made a hatc
h to access the wire going to the tail light. The flush hatch is made from
the piece cut from the faring and it is held in place with 2 screws.
John G
From: OgdenK@upstate.edu
Subject: RV10-List: Fiberglass fairings question
Hi all=2C
I have a question about the fiberglass fairings on the tail group. If inst
alled as per the instructions=2C will the paint at the joint between fiberg
lass and Aluminum crack over time with expansion/contraction? I recall pos
tings about this kind of phenomenon related to the windscreen. In anyone's
opinion=2C is it worth the effort of glassing over the joint/rivets and t
hen filling to smooth=2C or is this just extra weight/effort? I would like
to finish this up before really getting into my wings so I don't have to c
ome back to it later.
Kent Ogden
#40710 Wings (just barely)
ky=B7=E8=9E=DB"=CD=ED=9C=A2Z+=D3M4=D3G=DAq=E7(=BA=B8=9E=AEw=B0r=8B=AB=89=EA
=D3=85=E4U=D7B=B2=D1&j)E=A2=BBR=C7=AD=85=E3=1A=B6=BA'=89=CB =8A=CBEy
=ABn=AD=EB j=F8 j=DA+=B6=86=EB=A3 =1E=B6=17j|=8B=8A=CBn=B6)b=B6'=AC=B2
=E7!j=C2=B2=D5'=FD+=9B=B1=CA=D8=A8=9C =DC=86+=DEI=E6=ABr=10=E8=C2y
hi=DE=C3k k=A3 =1E =16=AD=14=04=0F=86=8Bh=B2=16=ABy=A9=DD=9A=E7!=9A=E7!=9A
=8A=DEj=1A=DE~=1Bm=A7=FF=F0=C3 =9A=B6=BA'=89=CB=1C=A2o=CDj=F8 j=DA+E]t.+-
=86=DBi=FF=FC0=C2f=AD=AE=89r=C7(=9B=F3Z=BE(=1A=B6=8A=D1W] =8A=CB=7Fh=C0
=13D=E3H %=84=04S=91P=C4=92jg =AD=E6=ADr=89=EDz{Z'=CA=1A=BD=A8=A5i=B9^=BE
&=AD=85=E5=9ElZ+=BAk=1A=86=B7=9F=86=DBi=FF=F7=E8=AE=E9=AC=99=ABk=A2x=9C=B1
=CA&=86=DBi=FF=F7=E8=AE=E9=AC=99=ABk=A2x=9C=B1=CA&=FD=A2=B2=D0=A8=9E=DA
n=EBb=A2u=9Em(=ADy8Z=9EL=A8=B9=FA+=CA=8B=AB=81=E9=DE=AE=8B=AC=B2=EAi=A2
=BBLj=DBC=AD=A9ex=B8=AC=B4=07f=8Av=A1=AD=E7=E1=B6=DA=7F=FF 0=99=ABk=A2x=9C
=B1=CA&=FD=CA'=B6=B8=9B=BA=D8=A8=9E=1Bm=A7=FF=F0=C3 =9A=B6=BA'=89=CB=1C=A2o
=DC=A2{k=89=BB=AD=8A=89=FFk=F6=FF~=89=ED=FE=9A=DE=FD=BA=1D=CB=F8m=9A
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass fairings question |
Tim Olson wrote:
> I haven't had cracking on my fiberglass tips. But, I wish I had used screws
on the bottom rudder fairing and the forward tip
> fairing on the vertical stab. If I had used screws, running wires
> for my rudder trim would have been easier, and also I could
> easier mount a camera in the vertical stab. Since they're
> not removable it's a bigger chore. For the horizontal
> stab tips though, and the rudder top tip, I think glassing them
> in looks nice and see no reason not to.
> If you know you'll never do a camera up top, you could glass
> that one too.
>
I am considering mounting one on the under wing first inspection plate on the right
side. Problem is, I have not found a camera that I like. The resolutions
are just not there yet for a reasonable price. My eyes and ears are open for
one to hit the market.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249979#249979
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass fairings question |
Tim,
Interesting that you mention screws, I did use screws on the rudder bottom
for ease of wiring and also on the elevator fairings. My reasoning on the
elevators is probably suspect, I was thinking that if the fairings were
damaged in ground handling etc. it would be easy to pop them off for
repairs. It wouldn't be too hard to remove the entire elevator for repairs
either, certainly easier than for damage to the HS. I hadn't considered
screws for the VS fairing, but the camera idea has me thinking that way.
Thanks for the thoughts.
Kent
>>> Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> 6/25/2009 12:04 PM >>>
I haven't had cracking on my fiberglass tips. But, I wish I
had used screws on the bottom rudder fairing and the forward tip
fairing on the vertical stab. If I had used screws, running wires
for my rudder trim would have been easier, and also I could
easier mount a camera in the vertical stab. Since they're
not removable it's a bigger chore. For the horizontal
stab tips though, and the rudder top tip, I think glassing them
in looks nice and see no reason not to.
If you know you'll never do a camera up top, you could glass
that one too.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Kent Ogden wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have a question about the fiberglass fairings on the tail group. If
> installed as per the instructions, will the paint at the joint between
> fiberglass and Aluminum crack over time with expansion/contraction? I
> recall postings about this kind of phenomenon related to the
> windscreen. In anyone's opinion, is it worth the effort of glassing
> over the joint/rivets and then filling to smooth, or is this just extra
> weight/effort? I would like to finish this up before really getting
> into my wings so I don't have to come back to it later.
>
> Kent Ogden
> #40710 Wings (just barely)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Fiberglass fairings question |
A consideration for the rudder bottom fairing would be to use screws for
ease of replacement. I know of more than 1 RV-10 that got tipped back
and crack the fiberglass from people on both steps at the same time, aft
CG and taxiing on rough turf field, etc.
And no, it hasn't happened to me...
Bob
N442PM
Message 11
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| Subject: | Dan Lloyd RV-10 accident report is out |
Hi
I just came across this on another list.
..Les
http://www.ntsb.
<http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 071120X01821&key=1>
gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 071120X01821&key=1
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: OSH 2009 Camping / Flying-in / Parking |
There is now a more detailed map of the upgraded OSH grounds at http://www.airventure.org/planning/AV2009_grounds_map.pdf
For reference, our usual location for RV-10 HQ is just south of Paul's Park and
just west of Knapp St. For maximum confusion, North is left on this map...
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249988#249988
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Dan Lloyd RV-10 accident report is out |
I am shocked and amazed at what's in this report. I am sorry for the
loss and I'm sorry for this situation. It reads like an instruction
manual of what not to do...
On 6/25/09, Les Kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Hi
>
>
> I just came across this on another list.
>
>
> ..Les
>
> http://www.ntsb.
> <http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 071120X01821&key=1>
> gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 071120X01821&key=1
>
>
--
Sent from my mobile device
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Dan Lloyd RV-10 accident report is out |
Reads just like Tim called it a year ago. I actually think the NTSB may have
taken Tim's report for their own report.
Regardless, very sad to see these facts again.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Mike Much" <mkmuch@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dan Lloyd RV-10 accident report is out
>
> I am shocked and amazed at what's in this report. I am sorry for the
> loss and I'm sorry for this situation. It reads like an instruction
> manual of what not to do...
>
>
> On 6/25/09, Les Kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>>
>>
>> I just came across this on another list.
>>
>>
>>
>> ..Les
>>
>> http://www.ntsb.
>> <http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 071120X01821&key=1>
>> gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 071120X01821&key=1
>>
>>
>
> --
> Sent from my mobile device
>
>
>
Message 15
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Okay, John you have teased us. Where are those pictures to drool over?
I have N410DP out of Fresno originally registered to Doug Peterson of
Kit #009 then sold to Phil Moradian. My file had Doug's plane sans
paint. Could it be??
I also have a Rick Emerian with N576RD out of Fresno with #247.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:40 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Very Nice RV 10
I Went out to Nut Tree Airport VCB and what did I see a very shiny
bright
red RV-10. It was awesome, the owner was from the Fresno area as far as
I
could figure out. I wish I was able to meet him but it was not to be.
The plane was very nice extremely high quality build and absolutely
beautiful, being a beginner just starting the process of building it
was
very much a motivator for me.
A friend drove by and told me to quit drooling. I just had to take pics
while I was there.
John G. Cumins
40864 elevators priming
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Dan Lloyd RV-10 accident report is out |
The NTSB did speak with many people and gathered many facts.
They actually have more facts than appear in the report.
They have things like cellphone records and other things that
allow them to actually know the dates and times of events,
and quite a few firsthand reports from people on some of
the things that were done or had happened. The report that
was put out actually leaves out some items, I'm just
guessing it's because they could have some sort of negative
commercial or personal impact if the whole blunt fact story
were told. In the end, regardless of the other things in the
situation that led him down the path to the end, it was still
his own responsibility to make sure he did things right and
did not participate in things that weren't proper or legal.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
pascal wrote:
>
> Reads just like Tim called it a year ago. I actually think the NTSB may
> have taken Tim's report for their own report.
> Regardless, very sad to see these facts again.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Mike Much" <mkmuch@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:57 AM
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dan Lloyd RV-10 accident report is out
>
>>
>> I am shocked and amazed at what's in this report. I am sorry for the
>> loss and I'm sorry for this situation. It reads like an instruction
>> manual of what not to do...
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/25/09, Les Kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I just came across this on another list.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ..Les
>>>
>>> http://www.ntsb.
>>> <http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 071120X01821&key=1>
>>> gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 071120X01821&key=1
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my mobile device
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Dan Lloyd RV-10 accident report is out |
While many of us knew a good chunk of the details, some of the things were "guesses"
or conjecture. I'm sad to say that the report verified many of those
guesses.
One of the things I hope is very clear is that the "engine builder", in my opinion,
was VERY irresponsible in his actions and enabling Dan to do some of the
things he did are reprehensible, inexcusable, and completely irresponsible.
I know he can hide behind the idea that he didn't know what Dan was doing but,
again in my opinion, the evidence shows otherwise in addition to a complete
lack of concern for safety. I don't know how anyone would do business with this
"engine builder" after reading the NTSB report. I'm just disgusted at his
involvement in this.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dan Lloyd RV-10 accident report is out
The NTSB did speak with many people and gathered many facts.
They actually have more facts than appear in the report.
They have things like cellphone records and other things that
allow them to actually know the dates and times of events,
and quite a few firsthand reports from people on some of
the things that were done or had happened. The report that
was put out actually leaves out some items, I'm just
guessing it's because they could have some sort of negative
commercial or personal impact if the whole blunt fact story
were told. In the end, regardless of the other things in the
situation that led him down the path to the end, it was still
his own responsibility to make sure he did things right and
did not participate in things that weren't proper or legal.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
pascal wrote:
>
> Reads just like Tim called it a year ago. I actually think the NTSB may
> have taken Tim's report for their own report.
> Regardless, very sad to see these facts again.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Mike Much" <mkmuch@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:57 AM
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Dan Lloyd RV-10 accident report is out
>
>>
>> I am shocked and amazed at what's in this report. I am sorry for the
>> loss and I'm sorry for this situation. It reads like an instruction
>> manual of what not to do...
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/25/09, Les Kearney <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I just came across this on another list.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ..Les
>>>
>>> http://www.ntsb.
>>> <http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 071120X01821&key=1>
>>> gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 071120X01821&key=1
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my mobile device
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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My wife and I are flying from Richmond VA to Maine next week and are
planning to stop at Nantucket and then to go Bar Harbor and Boothbay. I
would love any recommendations as to what to see and do in Maine of if there
are any other stops that we should make.
_________________________________
John Testement
N311RV
40321
Flying
Message 19
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| Subject: | a lesson learned |
On Saturday during my upwind leg at Bartow, FL, my co-pilot was the
first to notice oil on the windshield. Oil pressure/temp remained
stable so I landed immediately and taxied to the maintenance shop.
The windshield was partially covered with a film of what looked like
oil and the front of the cowl was also partially covered with the
same. My first thought was that I had lost the shaft seal but Bill
from the maintenance shop took a quick look and identified it as
grease.
We discovered that the spring in one of the grease zerks at the prop
hub had broken and grease content was sprayed out. Bill said that he
has even seen the zerks break from the hub all together.
I had never heard of this before and wanted to let everyone know of
the possibility. I can now identify what grease looks like on the
windshield. I consider myself and my plane very, very lucky. I am
almost sure that it had happened a few minutes later, I would have
been looking for an off-filed landing.
I am seriously considering replacing the zerks with plugs when they
are not being used.
Do not archive.
--
Rob Kermanj
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Trip to Maine |
John: You have picked two of the best areas to see, and both fairly
accessable from local strips---especially Bar Harbor with a great
airport and a super FBO (including a loaner car). You should spend a
couple of days in B.H. You may want to also head inland toward the
Maine Western Mountains for some great views---plus lots of adequate
strips to land. If you need a hanger in Central Maine I have room in
mine since I am a few weeks away from moving my 10 from the garage to
the hanger (now in the painting phase). Would at least like to see you
stop by so I can see your beauties (plane and wife). My cell phone is
(207) 322-6167. Jay Rowe #40301
----- Original Message -----
From: John Testement
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:18 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Trip to Maine
My wife and I are flying from Richmond VA to Maine next week and are
planning to stop at Nantucket and then to go Bar Harbor and Boothbay. I
would love any recommendations as to what to see and do in Maine of if
there are any other stops that we should make.
_________________________________
John Testement
N311RV
40321
Flying
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
06/25/09 06:22:00
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Trip to Maine |
The ATM.....lol...doesn't Maine have some crazy taxes you have to pay if you land
there...not sure but I read about it someplace...
Rick Sked
N246RS
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: "John Testement" <jwt@roadmapscoaching.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Trip to Maine
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Trip to Maine |
Rent bikes and visit the Arcadia State Park.
Anh
N591VU
Flying
On Thu 06/25/09 5:18 PM , "John Testement" jwt@roadmapscoaching.com
sent:
My wife and I are flying from Richmond VA to Maine next week and
are planning to stop at Nantucket and then to go Bar Harbor and
Boothbay. I would love any recommendations as to what to see and do in
Maine of if there are any other stops that we should make.
_________________________________
John Testement
N311RV 40321 Flying
HTTP://WWW.MATRONICS.COM/NAVIGATOR?RV10-LIST [1]
HTTP://WWW.MATRONICS.COM/CONTRIBUTION [3]
Links:
------
[1]
http://metromail.metrocast.net/HTTP://WWW.MATRONICS.COM/NAVIGATOR?RV10-LIST
[2] http://metromail.metrocast.net/HTTP://FORUMS.MATRONICS.COM/
[3]
http://metromail.metrocast.net/HTTP://WWW.MATRONICS.COM/CONTRIBUTION
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Trip to Maine |
On 6/25/2009 5:18 PM, John Testement wrote:
> My wife and I are flying from Richmond VA to Maine next week and are
> planning to stop at Nantucket and then to go Bar Harbor and Boothbay. I
Hi John,
Just a heads up that Bar Harbor is one of the airports the TSA is
terrorizing (it is on the list of 454 airports). When you get there be
sure to radio the FBO to get their procedures before randomly walking
out across the ramp.
On 6/25/2009 7:09 PM, ricksked@embarqmail.com wrote:
> The ATM.....lol...doesn't Maine have some crazy taxes you have to pay if
> you land there...not sure but I read about it someplace...
Yes, we do, thanks to the idiots in our state gov't. However, if you
are going to be here less than 20 days and/or your plane is older than a
year, you are okay.
I really like the scenery up near Greenville (Moosehead Lake), and
there is a nice little airport there, too.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: a lesson learned |
I had a very similar experience 2nd flight after condition inspection
was complete (I added grease during the process). Happened soon after
takeoff. My thoughts were much like Rob's.
One of the local mechanics said this was not at all unusual following
grease servicing on props.
I replaced the zerk and now carry a spare zerk plus a plug in my tool
bag. Might just use all plugs next ACI.
One key visual indicator here that can help you tell the difference
between grease and oil - the grease does not run up the windscreen
like oil does. So if you don't see the stuff streaming up the canopy,
it's probably grease and not oil.....gives a bit more breathing room
looking for a place to set down and inspect.
grumpy
N184JM
On Jun 25, 2009, at 5:36 PM, Rob Kermanj wrote:
>
> On Saturday during my upwind leg at Bartow, FL, my co-pilot was the
> first to notice oil on the windshield. Oil pressure/temp remained
> stable so I landed immediately and taxied to the maintenance shop.
>
> The windshield was partially covered with a film of what looked like
> oil and the front of the cowl was also partially covered with the
> same. My first thought was that I had lost the shaft seal but Bill
> from the maintenance shop took a quick look and identified it as
> grease.
>
> We discovered that the spring in one of the grease zerks at the prop
> hub had broken and grease content was sprayed out. Bill said that he
> has even seen the zerks break from the hub all together.
>
> I had never heard of this before and wanted to let everyone know of
> the possibility. I can now identify what grease looks like on the
> windshield. I consider myself and my plane very, very lucky. I am
> almost sure that it had happened a few minutes later, I would have
> been looking for an off-filed landing.
>
> I am seriously considering replacing the zerks with plugs when they
> are not being used.
>
> Do not archive.
>
> --
> Rob Kermanj
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: a lesson learned |
I had greased the prop about 30 hrs before. Better read the prop book
and follow grease instructions closely. Wher did you find the plug?
I understand it is an unusual size.
Do not archive.
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Miller John<gengrumpy@aol.com> wrote:
>
> I had a very similar experience 2nd flight after condition inspection was
> complete (I added grease during the process). Happened soon after takeoff.
> My thoughts were much like Rob's.
>
> One of the local mechanics said this was not at all unusual following grease
> servicing on props.
>
> I replaced the zerk and now carry a spare zerk plus a plug in my tool bag.
> Might just use all plugs next ACI.
>
> One key visual indicator here that can help you tell the difference between
> grease and oil - the grease does not run up the windscreen like oil does.
> So if you don't see the stuff streaming up the canopy, it's probably grease
> and not oil.....gives a bit more breathing room looking for a place to set
> down and inspect.
>
> grumpy
> N184JM
>
> On Jun 25, 2009, at 5:36 PM, Rob Kermanj wrote:
>
>>
>> On Saturday during my upwind leg at Bartow, FL, my co-pilot was the
>> first to notice oil on the windshield. Oil pressure/temp remained
>> stable so I landed immediately and taxied to the maintenance shop.
>>
>> The windshield was partially covered with a film of what looked like
>> oil and the front of the cowl was also partially covered with the
>> same. My first thought was that I had lost the shaft seal but Bill
>> from the maintenance shop took a quick look and identified it as
>> grease.
>>
>> We discovered that the spring in one of the grease zerks at the prop
>> hub had broken and grease content was sprayed out. Bill said that he
>> has even seen the zerks break from the hub all together.
>>
>> I had never heard of this before and wanted to let everyone know of
>> the possibility. I can now identify what grease looks like on the
>> windshield. I consider myself and my plane very, very lucky. I am
>> almost sure that it had happened a few minutes later, I would have
>> been looking for an off-filed landing.
>>
>> I am seriously considering replacing the zerks with plugs when they
>> are not being used.
>>
>> Do not archive.
>>
>> --
>> Rob Kermanj
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Rob Kermanj
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: a lesson learned |
Vastly overstated problem. Every Hartzell has the zerks. The prop is
supposed to be greased annually. If there were a problem, you would have
already seen the AD. No problems over 700 hours &10 years flying behind two
different Hartzells and greasing them myself. Care in removing and
installing the zerks goes a long ways. There should not be any back pressure
at all when pumping grease into the hub, and grease should be coming out the
removed zerk as soon as hub is full. If you get any pressure into the hub
you risk damaging the seals on the blades.
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 5:59 PM, Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com> wrote:
>
> I had a very similar experience 2nd flight after condition inspection was
> complete (I added grease during the process). Happened soon after takeoff.
> My thoughts were much like Rob's.
>
> One of the local mechanics said this was not at all unusual following
> grease servicing on props.
>
> I replaced the zerk and now carry a spare zerk plus a plug in my tool bag.
> Might just use all plugs next ACI.
>
> One key visual indicator here that can help you tell the difference between
> grease and oil - the grease does not run up the windscreen like oil does.
> So if you don't see the stuff streaming up the canopy, it's probably grease
> and not oil.....gives a bit more breathing room looking for a place to set
> down and inspect.
>
> grumpy
> N184JM
>
>
> On Jun 25, 2009, at 5:36 PM, Rob Kermanj wrote:
>
>>
>> On Saturday during my upwind leg at Bartow, FL, my co-pilot was the
>> first to notice oil on the windshield. Oil pressure/temp remained
>> stable so I landed immediately and taxied to the maintenance shop.
>>
>> The windshield was partially covered with a film of what looked like
>> oil and the front of the cowl was also partially covered with the
>> same. My first thought was that I had lost the shaft seal but Bill
>> from the maintenance shop took a quick look and identified it as
>> grease.
>>
>> We discovered that the spring in one of the grease zerks at the prop
>> hub had broken and grease content was sprayed out. Bill said that he
>> has even seen the zerks break from the hub all together.
>>
>> I had never heard of this before and wanted to let everyone know of
>> the possibility. I can now identify what grease looks like on the
>> windshield. I consider myself and my plane very, very lucky. I am
>> almost sure that it had happened a few minutes later, I would have
>> been looking for an off-filed landing.
>>
>> I am seriously considering replacing the zerks with plugs when they
>> are not being used.
>>
>> Do not archive.
>>
>> --
>> Rob Kermanj
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 27
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One other thing. If you buy the E bottle, order the toggle valve handle as
opposed to the wrench. Why carry an extra tool when the toggle handle will
allow the valve to be opened.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: a lesson learned |
I remember removing the opposite zerk and pumping grease for a while.
Nothing came out so I gave up and greased a little form the opposite
end. Don't remember any back pressure.
As I mentioned; I had never heard of this until the mechanic said
casually that he has seen it before.
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Kelly McMullen<apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
> Vastly overstated problem. Every Hartzell has the zerks. The prop is
> supposed to be greased annually. If there were a problem, you would have
> already seen the AD. No problems over 700 hours &10 years flying behind two
> different Hartzells and greasing them myself. Care in removing and
> installing the zerks goes a long ways. There should not be any back pressure
> at all when pumping grease into the hub, and grease should be coming out the
> removed zerk as soon as hub is full. If you get any pressure into the hub
> you risk damaging the seals on the blades.
>
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 5:59 PM, Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I had a very similar experience 2nd flight after condition inspection was
>> complete (I added grease during the process). Happened soon after takeoff.
>> My thoughts were much like Rob's.
>>
>> One of the local mechanics said this was not at all unusual following
>> grease servicing on props.
>>
>> I replaced the zerk and now carry a spare zerk plus a plug in my tool bag.
>> Might just use all plugs next ACI.
>>
>> One key visual indicator here that can help you tell the difference
>> between grease and oil - the grease does not run up the windscreen like oil
>> does. So if you don't see the stuff streaming up the canopy, it's probably
>> grease and not oil.....gives a bit more breathing room looking for a place
>> to set down and inspect.
>>
>> grumpy
>> N184JM
>>
>> On Jun 25, 2009, at 5:36 PM, Rob Kermanj wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday during my upwind leg at Bartow, FL, my co-pilot was the
>>> first to notice oil on the windshield. Oil pressure/temp remained
>>> stable so I landed immediately and taxied to the maintenance shop.
>>>
>>> The windshield was partially covered with a film of what looked like
>>> oil and the front of the cowl was also partially covered with the
>>> same. My first thought was that I had lost the shaft seal but Bill
>>> from the maintenance shop took a quick look and identified it as
>>> grease.
>>>
>>> We discovered that the spring in one of the grease zerks at the prop
>>> hub had broken and grease content was sprayed out. Bill said that he
>>> has even seen the zerks break from the hub all together.
>>>
>>> I had never heard of this before and wanted to let everyone know of
>>> the possibility. I can now identify what grease looks like on the
>>> windshield. I consider myself and my plane very, very lucky. I am
>>> almost sure that it had happened a few minutes later, I would have
>>> been looking for an off-filed landing.
>>>
>>> I am seriously considering replacing the zerks with plugs when they
>>> are not being used.
>>>
>>> Do not archive.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rob Kermanj
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Rob Kermanj
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: a lesson learned |
Another example of the great operational threads that are now coming up
regularly with our growing fleet of flying aircraft.
The Hartzell manual spells out routine greasing procedures in depth and
includes removing and replacing zerks in the process as well
how much to pump in. Depending on my memory (a dangerous thing) a specific
number of strokes on the pump are called out rather than "filling" to
overflow.
Dick Sipp
40065 N110DV flying
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass fairings question |
Kent:
This is probably as much an aesthetics question as one of durability.
Some people like the "filled in smooth" look and done well will probably
hold up fine.
Another school of thought says small uniform gaps between varying
materials and components also looks very good and there is no problem
with potential cracks.
I have a little of both processes and have seen no cracks so far. Also
used the screw attachment for the lower rudder fairing.
Dick Sipp
Flying
----- Original Message -----
From: Kent Ogden
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:33 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Fiberglass fairings question
Hi all,
I have a question about the fiberglass fairings on the tail group. If
installed as per the instructions, will the paint at the joint between
fiberglass and Aluminum crack over time with expansion/contraction? I
recall postings about this kind of phenomenon related to the windscreen.
In anyone's opinion, is it worth the effort of glassing over the
joint/rivets and then filling to smooth, or is this just extra
weight/effort? I would like to finish this up before really getting
into my wings so I don't have to come back to it later.
Kent Ogden
#40710 Wings (just barely)
~=B2=03
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Dan Lloyd RV-10 accident report is out |
The FAA left out their conclusion although it is easy to draw your own.
It is hard to make sense of this story. The man attained his pilots
license, built a rather complex airplane, which flew, and yet recklessly
ignored so many critical details. It is often said that every aviation
accident is due to a chain of events. Break the chain and prevent the
accident. This event chain seems like it would have led to tragedy
regardless. To ask "What was he thinking?" is an understatement.
Dan gave me one great tool tip, my Makita 9031 belt sander for the
canopy, doors and glass. In my opinion it is as valuable on these parts
as a pneumatic rivet sqeezer is on aluminum.
Rest in peace Dan.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Kearney
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:04 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Dan Lloyd RV-10 accident report is out
Hi
I just came across this on another list.
..Les
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 071120X01821&key=1
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