---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/08/09: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:19 AM - Re: Visiting Osh and California (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 2. 06:44 AM - Nav antenna location (billz) 3. 06:53 AM - Re: Trip to Maine (billz) 4. 07:16 AM - Re: Nav antenna location (Tim Olson) 5. 08:12 AM - Re: Starter replacementStarter replacement (Rhonda Bewley) 6. 08:12 AM - Glide Test (partner14) 7. 08:42 AM - insurance for the 10 (Jay Rowe) 8. 09:10 AM - Re: insurance for the 10 (John Cram) 9. 09:17 AM - Re: insurance for the 10 (building_partner@yahoo.com) 10. 09:17 AM - Re: Nav antenna location (Albert Gardner) 11. 09:33 AM - Washing aircraft (Sheldon Olesen) 12. 10:02 AM - Re: Glide Test (jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com) 13. 10:19 AM - Re: Nav antenna location (Patrick Thyssen) 14. 10:19 AM - Re: Nav antenna location (billz) 15. 11:04 AM - Re: Pitot test rig (was Pitot cover) (Bob Turner) 16. 11:05 AM - Re: Re: Nav antenna location (Fred Williams, M.D.) 17. 11:09 AM - Re: Pitot test rig (was Pitot cover) (Lenny Iszak) 18. 11:13 AM - Re: Nav antenna location (Miller John) 19. 12:50 PM - Re: Re: Nav antenna location (Rene Felker) 20. 01:23 PM - Re: Washing aircraft (Rob Kermanj) 21. 01:26 PM - Re: Nav antenna location (Rob Kermanj) 22. 03:12 PM - Re: Re: Glide Test (John Gonzalez) 23. 05:56 PM - Re: Re: Glide Test (David McNeill) 24. 06:26 PM - Machine Countersinking (Rob Hunter) 25. 06:42 PM - Re: Machine Countersinking (Bill Mauledriver Watson) 26. 06:48 PM - Re: Machine Countersinking (Rene) 27. 07:53 PM - Re: Re: Glide Test (pilotdds@aol.com) 28. 08:08 PM - Re: Glide Test (Bob Turner) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:58 AM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Visiting Osh and California Nearest one around OSH flying is Jason & Co in Sheboygan but there are several under construction in the area. I'm about 30 miles due north of the OSH airport but still under construction. You are welcome to drop in. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Wellenzohn Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 3:52 PM Subject: RV10-List: Visiting Osh and California Hi Listers, I'll be in Osh with my wife and after that we are planning through California. I was just wondering if there are any flying RV-10 there to visit. Best Regards Michael Switzerland www.wellenzohn.net -------- RV-10 builder (avionics, wiring) #511 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251996#251996 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:46 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Nav antenna location From: "billz" I'm planning to install a traditional (V type) nav antenna and am wondering if anyone has installed one at the top of the vertical Stab? I'm getting ready to rivet the skin on and would like to make sure I don't make a BIG mistake this early in the build. I've seen it located on the bottom of the tail on many aircraft, but am concerned about damage to the antenna, over time. What are your thoughts. Thanks! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252094#252094 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:25 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Trip to Maine From: "billz" I would recommend a stop at KRKD. There is the Owls Head Transportation museum and lots of places to eat in "downtown" Rockland. If you want to stay over, there is the Berry Manor Inn, A very nice Bed and Breakfast. Nice folks run it and are very pilot friendly. They even have pie and Ice cream out, if you want an evening snack! http://www.berrymanorinn.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252097#252097 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:06 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Nav antenna location There are definitely some who've put it on top, under the front fairing on the tip of the vertical stab. It should work great there. Under the tail is working well for me. It gives maybe 25% better range than my wingtip Archer NAV, and that is facing the station. If you face the wingtip away from the station it can be much worse. I think the lower location may be great for VOR signals since they'll be ground based, but VS tip shouldn't be much different. It's nice to get near 360 line of sight. The Horizontal stab protects the antenna very well. Other than crawling under for maintenance, there really isn't any big stuff to worry about. I have tables on the sides of my t-hangar and I just have to make sure I push it back straight so I don't snag anything, but I haven't in over 500 hours. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD billz wrote: > > I'm planning to install a traditional (V type) nav antenna and am > wondering if anyone has installed one at the top of the vertical > Stab? I'm getting ready to rivet the skin on and would like to make > sure I don't make a BIG mistake this early in the build. I've seen > it located on the bottom of the tail on many aircraft, but am > concerned about damage to the antenna, over time. > > What are your thoughts. > > Thanks! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252094#252094 > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:06 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter replacementStarter replacement From: "Rhonda Bewley" Pascal: We had some issues with the 149-LS starters a few years ago. Should an engine have a kick back, the starter housing on the LS breaks pretty easily and is generally not covered under Skytec's warranty. The NL model has a sheer pin which is a pretty easy and inexpensive fix. The 149-NL starter is now stock on all of our engines. If you have an engine with an LS starter, you might check with Skytec. As long as the starter has never been installed on the engine, they may take it back and give you a credit towards the NL starter. Rhonda Barrett-Bewley Barrett Precision Engines, Inc. ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pascal Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:56 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Starter replacementStarter replacement okay, so I'm a little slow.. how does this compare to the Skytech LS that comes standard on the Lycoming engines and Van's sells? Thanks! Pascal From: Wayne Edgerton Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 5:05 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Starter replacementStarter replacement Someone pointed out to me that in my post I said volts when I should have said amps. oops. Below are a few of the differences between the Sky-Tec NL & the HT model that I took out. As you can see the NL requires less amps, thus easier to make it turn over, and turns at a slower RPM, however the NL weighs in at about 1 lb more. Wayne Edgerton N602WT NL Model HT Model Current 125-185A @ 11V, 140 RPM Test 185-285A @ 11V, 160 RPM Test Gear Reduction 6.5:1 4.3:1 Weight 9.4 lbs. 8.5 lbs -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGann, Ron Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Starter replacement --> For those flying, I would be keen to know how many more issues of insufficient starter torque have been reported. I regularly need to hold the starter engaged for several seconds before the engine is pushed through compression (when the engine is cold). I was about to relace the concorde battery with an odyssey, but perhaps I need a higher torque starter?? Cheers Ron VH-XRM Flying in Oz -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton Sent: Friday, 19 June 2009 11:52 PM Subject: RV10-List: Starter replacement I don't know if any of you had the problem that I had with the starter or not. We installed the engine in 2005 with a Sky-Tec High Torque HT starter, which supposedly was the best one they had back then. Anyway, whenever I would do a cold start of the engine the prop would make about a half revolution and stop, like it didn't have enough power to it. I would then try again and it would turn fine. Another RV friend of mine on my field told me about a new starter that Sky-Tec came out with that took less volts and turned the prop slower. It's a High Torque in Line NL. This friend was having the same problem with his 7, which has high compression pistons. We both switched to this new NL starter and it solved our problem. The new starter weighed a little bit more than my old one, something like a pound. I live in TX, so cold isn't a problem but I fly up into the cold country and was worried I wasn't going to get started on some cold day. Sky-Tec are really good people located right here near me in Granbury, TX and they took my old starter in on trade against the new one and it cost me $250 to upgrade. I thought that was a pretty good deal. Anyway I just thought I would pass this along in case any of you are experiencing the same problem as I had. Wayne Edgerton N602WT href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic s .com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:06 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Glide Test From: "partner14" Has anyone run a test for approx glide slope. I was flying along side a 182 yesterday and we both were at 4,500' and 150mph. When exactly (withing a tenth) 20 miles from our destination, we pulled throttle and prop. I then trimmed for 87mph and continued until altitude read 2,500'. We had gone 9.8 statute miles. The numbers were so good the 182 pilot said we must have done it wrong. We did determine that at the lower part of the decent we had a tailwind. But that works out to a 25 to 1 glide slope. So we did the same test on the way back, only continued the decent from 4,500 to 2,000'. This time it was considerably less at 7.3 miles. One factor was that our initial speed entering the test was 30mph less. But even so our glide slope with the headwind was 15.4 to 1. I guess the true test would be an actual engine shut down. Comments? -------- Don A. McDonald 40636 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252109#252109 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:39 AM PST US From: "Jay Rowe" Subject: RV10-List: insurance for the 10 About ready to "kick the tire" so I need to get serious about the insurance. Anyone out there with "not in motion" coverage (liability for everything but hull only when tied down or in the hanger)? If so, with whom and how much? Jay Rowe ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:25 AM PST US From: John Cram Subject: RE: RV10-List: insurance for the 10 I used "Jenny" with Nationair. great service. 160K coverage for 1500.00 +/- . From: jfrjr@roadrunner.com Subject: RV10-List: insurance for the 10 About ready to "kick the tire" so I need to get serious about the insurance. Anyone out there with "not in motion" coverage (liability for everything but hull only when tied down or in the hanger)? If so=2C with whom and how much? Jay Rowe ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:21 AM PST US From: building_partner@yahoo.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: insurance for the 10 Yep, got it.... Sky Smith... great people.- I actually flew off the hours and then got the insurance.... little cheaper, as I was a low time pilot a nd green plane.- Sky Smith was recommended by Alex D, and he was right on.- We secured lia bility and not in motion. Don McDonald - - SkySmith Insurance Agency 518 SW 3rd St, Suite B Ankeny, IA- 50023-3048 Phone:- 515-289-1439 or 800-743-1439 Fax:- 515-964-0431 or 773-326-0690 --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Jay Rowe wrote: From: Jay Rowe Subject: RV10-List: insurance for the 10 About ready to "kick the tire" so I need to get serious about the insurance .- Anyone out there with "not in motion" coverage (liability for everythi ng but hull only-when tied down or in the hanger)?- If so, with whom an d how much?- Jay Rowe =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:26 AM PST US From: "Albert Gardner" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Nav antenna location I've put my Comant Nav/VOR/GS V antennas there on both my RV-9A and my RV-10. Seems to work great and no danger of running into the tips. I used nutplates to make it easily removable. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ N991RV -----Original Message----- I'm planning to install a traditional (V type) nav antenna and am wondering if anyone has installed one at the top of the vertical Stab? I'm getting ready to rivet the skin on and would like to make sure I don't make a BIG mistake this early in the build. I've seen it located on the bottom of the tail on many aircraft, but am concerned about damage to the antenna, over time. What are your thoughts. Thanks! ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:03 AM PST US From: Sheldon Olesen Subject: RV10-List: Washing aircraft This month's Light Plane Maintenance has an article on washing aircraft. One of the suggested products was Woolite. Seemed strange that a clothes washing product would be suitable for aircraft, but since my wife had some I gave it a try. To my surprise it got off bugs and oil rather easily. The windshield cleaned up with very little streaking. This stuff doesn't leave much residue behind. I had some light oil on the belly and that came off with no problem. Chances are your wife already has some Woolite so give it a try. Recommended mix is 2 ounces to 1 gallon. Anybody else have a favorite washing or waxing product? Sheldon Olesen N475PV 93 hours ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:57 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Glide Test From: jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com Glide tests, and time to climb tests should be included in the Phase 1 tests period. The test should at a minimum be repeated at light weight, and gross weight. These numbers are used to develop the POH. I just calculated our gross weight results last night, seems to me the number was somewhere around 8 (prop full forward). The procedure to gather the numbers is highlighted in AC 90-89 & in Vans documentation. They have slightly different approaches. But here is what we used. For descent: Climbed to ~7500, then pulled power and stabilized at an airspeed. This needs to be done at multiple airspeeds, we did 75, 80, 85, 90, & 95 (knots) lightweight, and 80, 85, 90, & 95 (knots) at gross weight. Started a timer as passing through 7000 noted time at 6000 feet, and stopped the timer at 5000 feet. Then: 2000 (this is how far you descended) / time (in seconds) Then: The answer from above x 60 This converts the value from Feet per Second to Feet per Minute This is your sink rate in Feet per Minute Then: (Airspeed MPH x 88) / Sink Rate FPM or (Airspeed Knots x 101.27) / Sink Rate FPM This is you Lift to Drag Ratio or Glide Ratio The highest L/D Ratio is the winner and should be used as a guideline for your glide speed. For Climb: Use the same sort of procedure, start a climb at 3000 feet, start a timer as you pass through 4000 feet, stop the timer as you reach 6000 feet. Do this at several airspeeds, lightweight and gross weight. If I recall we used 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, @ 100 (knots). The process to interpret the data is well outlined in Vans documentation or AC 89-90. I am no expert, I am sure others on the list have more to offer, but now you know what I know.... What tests did you conduct during Phase 1? We are getting close to wrapping up Phase 1 and want to make sure we don't miss a test others have done.... Thanks, Jason Kreidler #40617 - N44YH Flying 4 - Partner Build -Sheboygan Falls, WI Kyle Hokel Tony Kolar Wayne Elsner Jason Kreidler ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:50 AM PST US From: Patrick Thyssen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Nav antenna location -One of the things I found out with the antenna on bottom is you can get shadowing if- flying dirrectly to the station and Not very high (3000ft a nd below). So I'm in the mist of installing antenna on the VS.- As the Co mat man said, the bottom mount was the second best location. -Patrick Thyssen N15PT --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Tim Olson wrote: From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Nav antenna location There are definitely some who've put it on top, under the front fairing on the tip of the vertical stab.- It should work great there.- Under the tail is working well for me.- It gives maybe 25% better range than my wingtip Archer NAV, and that is facing the station. If you face the wingtip away from the station it can be much worse.- I think the lower location may be great for VOR signals since they'll be ground based, but VS tip shouldn't be much different.- It's nice to get near 360 line of sight. The Horizontal stab protects the antenna very well. Other than crawling under for maintenance, there really isn't any big stuff to worry about.- I have tables on the sides of my t-hangar and I just have to make sure I push it back straight so I don't snag anything, but I haven't in over 500 hours. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD billz wrote: > > I'm planning to install a traditional (V type) nav antenna and am > wondering if anyone has installed one at the top of the vertical > Stab?- I'm getting ready to rivet the skin on and would like to make > sure I don't make a BIG mistake this early in the build.- I've seen > it located on the bottom of the tail on many aircraft, but am > concerned about damage to the antenna, over time. > > What are your thoughts. > > Thanks! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252094#252094 > le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:51 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Nav antenna location From: "billz" Thank you for the quick replies. I can see that the antenna will be protected by the horizontal stab and get better coverage (looking down) for the ground based signals. Sounds like the way to go. I saw an RV-10 in Memphis with the bottom mount. It looks like he just used bolts into nut plates on a reinforcing plate inside the fuselage. Is that how you've done it? I'll attach the pictures. This plane also had two bent whip com antennas located between the main landing gear. What are your thoughts on that location?? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252137#252137 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1058_774.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1060_721.jpg ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:13 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Pitot test rig (was Pitot cover) From: "Bob Turner" Only the difference in the heights of the liquid matter, not the diameter of the tubing. And it's vertical height that matters, in case the rig itself is not vertical. The formula is: Pressure equals density (of the liquid) times the acceleration of gravity times the vertical height difference. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252147#252147 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:16 AM PST US From: "Fred Williams, M.D." Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Nav antenna location I've got the dual com antennae on the belly and have no problems. Work well. I can get your some pics of the doublers if you desire. I put one of the Bob Archer VOR ant in the wingtip. I didn't want another outside antennae. My main reason was that I didn't plan on using VOR navigation that much. It is a good back up and cross reference, but most of the time the GPS (496 and 430 ) are the primary nav sources. I know it all depends on your panel preferences, your experience and usage. Just my 0.02 cents. Dr Fred N515FW. billz wrote: > > Thank you for the quick replies. > > I can see that the antenna will be protected by the horizontal stab and get better coverage (looking down) for the ground based signals. Sounds like the way to go. I saw an RV-10 in Memphis with the bottom mount. It looks like he just used bolts into nut plates on a reinforcing plate inside the fuselage. Is that how you've done it? I'll attach the pictures. > > This plane also had two bent whip com antennas located between the main landing gear. What are your thoughts on that location?? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252137#252137 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1058_774.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1060_721.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:48 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Pitot test rig (was Pitot cover) From: "Lenny Iszak" Thanks Bob. It helps to know how it works. I tried it last night using the brake tubing and it worked great. Needed it to calibrate an electronic pressure sensor. Lenny Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252148#252148 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:05 AM PST US From: Miller John Subject: Re: RV10-List: Nav antenna location Mine is located on bottom of fuselage mounted just fwd of leading edge of vert stab. Put in a doubler plate if you mount it there as the skin is too thin to support (had to reinforce mine after 50 hrs). Otherwise, I'm happy with it there and it's pretty much hidden underneath the horizontals. grumpy N184JM do not archive On Jul 8, 2009, at 8:43 AM, billz wrote: > > I'm planning to install a traditional (V type) nav antenna and am > wondering if anyone has installed one at the top of the vertical > Stab? I'm getting ready to rivet the skin on and would like to make > sure I don't make a BIG mistake this early in the build. I've seen > it located on the bottom of the tail on many aircraft, but am > concerned about damage to the antenna, over time. > > What are your thoughts. > > Thanks! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252094#252094 > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:14 PM PST US From: "Rene Felker" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Nav antenna location I had....dual antennae on the bottom, but moved one to the top during my condition inspection. I found that when I was talking on 118.3 & 118.1, that it really did not work. Both at Boise (118.1) and Salt Lake City (118.3), I had transmission problems. I could hear them, but they could not always hear me. Could have been installation problems, but I appeared to have good grounding....... Both the SL30 and the 430 had problems...... Rene' Felker RV-10 N423CF Flying 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Williams, M.D. Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Nav antenna location I've got the dual com antennae on the belly and have no problems. Work well. I can get your some pics of the doublers if you desire. I put one of the Bob Archer VOR ant in the wingtip. I didn't want another outside antennae. My main reason was that I didn't plan on using VOR navigation that much. It is a good back up and cross reference, but most of the time the GPS (496 and 430 ) are the primary nav sources. I know it all depends on your panel preferences, your experience and usage. Just my 0.02 cents. Dr Fred N515FW. billz wrote: > > Thank you for the quick replies. > > I can see that the antenna will be protected by the horizontal stab and get better coverage (looking down) for the ground based signals. Sounds like the way to go. I saw an RV-10 in Memphis with the bottom mount. It looks like he just used bolts into nut plates on a reinforcing plate inside the fuselage. Is that how you've done it? I'll attach the pictures. > > This plane also had two bent whip com antennas located between the main landing gear. What are your thoughts on that location?? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252137#252137 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1058_774.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1060_721.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:39 PM PST US From: Rob Kermanj Subject: Re: RV10-List: Washing aircraft Good tip on the Woolite. I will try it. I use have used Lemon Pledge on the canopy and wind screen on my RV10 and RV 6 for years. It gets rid of minor scratches (eventually) and does a good cleaning job. On the belly, I have used Goop hand cleaner for years also. It gets rid of the oil and leaves a nice shine. do not archive On Jul 8, 2009, at 12:29 PM, Sheldon Olesen wrote: > > > This month's Light Plane Maintenance has an article on washing > aircraft. One of the suggested products was Woolite. Seemed > strange that a clothes washing product would be suitable for > aircraft, but since my wife had some I gave it a try. To my > surprise it got off bugs and oil rather easily. The windshield > cleaned up with very little streaking. This stuff doesn't leave > much residue behind. I had some light oil on the belly and that > came off with no problem. Chances are your wife already has some > Woolite so give it a try. Recommended mix is 2 ounces to 1 gallon. > > Anybody else have a favorite washing or waxing product? > > > Sheldon Olesen > N475PV 93 hours > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:49 PM PST US From: Rob Kermanj Subject: Re: RV10-List: Nav antenna location The only drawback to the nav antenna on the vertical stab is that birds love perching on them on the ramp and birds do what they do best while at rest. do not archive. On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:18 PM, Patrick Thyssen wrote: > One of the things I found out with the antenna on bottom is you can > get shadowing if flying dirrectly to the station and Not very high > (3000ft and below). So I'm in the mist of installing antenna on the > VS. As the Comat man said, the bottom mount was the second best > location. > Patrick Thyssen > N15PT > --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Tim Olson wrote: > > From: Tim Olson > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Nav antenna location > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 9:13 AM > > > There are definitely some who've put it on top, under the > front fairing on the tip of the vertical stab. It > should work great there. Under the tail is working > well for me. It gives maybe 25% better range than > my wingtip Archer NAV, and that is facing the station. > If you face the wingtip away from the station it > can be much worse. I think the lower location may > be great for VOR signals since they'll be ground > based, but VS tip shouldn't be much different. It's > nice to get near 360 line of sight. > The Horizontal stab protects the antenna very well. > Other than crawling under for maintenance, there > really isn't any big stuff to worry about. I have > tables on the sides of my t-hangar and I just have to make > sure I push it back straight so I don't snag anything, but > I haven't in over 500 hours. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > > > billz wrote: > > > > I'm planning to install a traditional (V type) nav antenna and am > > wondering if anyone has installed one at the top of the vertical > > Stab? I'm getting ready to rivet the skin on and would like to make > > sure I don't make a BIG mistake this early in the build. I've seen > > it located on the bottom of the tail on many aircraft, but am > > concerned about damage to the antenna, over time. > > > > What are your thoughts. > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252094#252094 > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List --> http://www.matronics > .c================== > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:12:26 PM PST US From: John Gonzalez Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Glide Test All this testing for L/D needs to be done in early morning=2C calm air. It makes a difference. Subject: RV10-List: Re: Glide Test From: jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com Glide tests=2C and time to climb tests should be included in the Phase 1 te sts period. The test should at a minimum be repeated at light weight=2C an d gross weight. These numbers are used to develop the POH. I just calculated our gross weight results last night=2C seems to me the nu mber was somewhere around 8 (prop full forward). The procedure to gather the numbers is highlighted in AC 90-89 & in Vans do cumentation. They have slightly different approaches. But here is what we used. For descent: Climbed to ~7500=2C then pulled power and stabilized at an airspeed. This needs to be done at multiple airspeeds=2C we did 75=2C 80=2C 85=2C 90=2C & 95 (knots) lightweight=2C and 80=2C 85=2C 90=2C & 95 (knots) at gross weigh t. Started a timer as passing through 7000 noted time at 6000 feet=2C and stop ped the timer at 5000 feet. Then: 2000 (this is how far you descended) / time (in seconds) Then: The answer from above x 60 This converts the value from Feet per Second to Feet per Minute This is your sink rate in Feet per Minute Then: (Airspeed MPH x 88) / Sink Rate FPM or (Airspeed Knots x 101.27) / Sink Rate FPM This is you Lift to Drag Ratio or Glide Ratio The highest L/D Ratio is the winner and should be used as a guideline for your glide speed. For Climb: Use the same sort of procedure=2C start a climb at 3000 feet=2C start a tim er as you pass through 4000 feet=2C stop the timer as you reach 6000 feet. Do this at several airspeeds=2C lightweight and gross weight. If I recall we used 75=2C 80=2C 85=2C 90=2C 95=2C @ 100 (knots). The process to interpret the data is well outlined in Vans documentation or AC 89-90. I am no expert=2C I am sure others on the list have more to offer=2C but no w you know what I know.... What tests did you conduct during Phase 1? We are getting close to wrapping up Phase 1 and want to make sure we don't mis s a test others have done.... Thanks=2C Jason Kreidler #40617 - N44YH Flying 4 - Partner Build -Sheboygan Falls=2C WI Kyle Hokel Tony Kolar Wayne Elsner Jason Kreidler ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:52 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Glide Test Seems to me that best glide should be prop control full aft (high pitch,low RPM). Throttle at idle and prop forward (low pitch , high rpm) causes the prop to act like a big brake? _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 2:54 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Glide Test All this testing for L/D needs to be done in early morning, calm air. It makes a difference. _____ Subject: RV10-List: Re: Glide Test From: jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com Glide tests, and time to climb tests should be included in the Phase 1 tests period. The test should at a minimum be repeated at light weight, and gross weight. These numbers are used to develop the POH. I just calculated our gross weight results last night, seems to me the number was somewhere around 8 (prop full forward). The procedure to gather the numbers is highlighted in AC 90-89 & in Vans documentation. They have slightly different approaches. But here is what we used. For descent: Climbed to ~7500, then pulled power and stabilized at an airspeed. This needs to be done at multiple airspeeds, we did 75, 80, 85, 90, & 95 (knots) lightweight, and 80, 85, 90, & 95 (knots) at gross weight. Started a timer as passing through 7000 noted time at 6000 feet, and stopped the timer at 5000 feet. Then: 2000 (this is how far you descended) / time (in seconds) Then: The answer from above x 60 This converts the value from Feet per Second to Feet per Minute This is your sink rate in Feet per Minute Then: (Airspeed MPH x 88) / Sink Rate FPM or (Airspeed Knots x 101.27) / Sink Rate FPM This is you Lift to Drag Ratio or Glide Ratio The highest L/D Ratio is the winner and should be used as a guideline for your glide speed. For Climb: Use the same sort of procedure, start a climb at 3000 feet, start a timer as you pass through 4000 feet, stop the timer as you reach 6000 feet. Do this at several airspeeds, lightweight and gross weight. If I recall we used 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, @ 100 (knots). The process to interpret the data is well outlined in Vans documentation or AC 89-90. I am no expert, I am sure others on the list have more to offer, but now you know what I know.... What tests did you conduct during Phase 1? We are getting close to wrapping up Phase 1 and want to make sure we don't miss a test others have done.... Thanks, Jason Kreidler #40617 - N44YH Flying 4 - Partner Build -Sheboygan Falls, WI Kyle Hokel Tony Kolar Wayne Elsner Jason Kreidler ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:21 PM PST US From: "Rob Hunter" Subject: RV10-List: Machine Countersinking Hi all, I am countersinking the parts under the side fuslage skins and the cage of the counter sink is too big to fit in several areas. I tried to get the countersink in without the cage, but the drill wont fit either. Is there anyway to put an extension on the end of the countersink bit? Any other suggestions? Rob Hunter 40432 Fuselage ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:11 PM PST US From: Bill Mauledriver Watson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Machine Countersinking As I recall, the extension on my deburrer has the same thread. So does the 90degree drill fitting... as I recall. I'm not in the shop. I'm sure someone can confirm or improve on this. Bill "need to go back to the shop and stop watching TV" Watson Rob Hunter wrote: > Hi all, > I am countersinking the parts under the side fuslage skins and the > cage of the counter sink is too big to fit in several areas. I tried > to get the countersink in without the cage, but the drill wont fit > either. Is there anyway to put an extension on the end of the > countersink bit? Any other suggestions? > > Rob Hunter > 40432 > Fuselage > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:42 PM PST US From: "Rene" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Machine Countersinking Counter sink bit on the deburr extension. Works ok. Rene' 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Hunter Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 7:24 PM Subject: RV10-List: Machine Countersinking Hi all, I am countersinking the parts under the side fuslage skins and the cage of the counter sink is too big to fit in several areas. I tried to get the countersink in without the cage, but the drill wont fit either. Is there anyway to put an extension on the end of the countersink bit? Any other suggestions? Rob Hunter 40432 Fuselage ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Glide Test From: pilotdds@aol.com That is consistant with my training and experience with a non feathering prop.Pulling the prop control back gives a very noticable reduction in drag and extends the glide. Important part of our emergency procedures in the sheriff dept C-206.I have often wondered if it was hard on the equipment,any thoughts? -----Original Message----- From: David McNeill Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 5:45 pm Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Glide Test Seems to me that best glide should be prop control full aft (high pitch,low RPM). Throttle at idle and prop forward (low pitch , high rpm) causes the prop to act like a big brake? From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 2:54 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Glide Test All this testing for L/D needs to be done in?early morning, calm air. It makes a difference. ? Subject: RV10-List: Re: Glide Test From: jason.kreidler@regalbeloit.com Glide tests, and time to climb tests should be included in the Phase 1 tests period. ?The test should at a minimum be repeated at light weight, and gross weight. ?These numbers are used to develop the POH. I just calculated our gross weight results last night, seems to me the number was somewhere around 8 (prop full forward). The procedure to gather the numbers is highlighted in AC 90-89 & in Vans documentation. ?They have slightly different approaches. ?But here is what we used. For descent: Climbed to ~7500, then pulled power and stabilized at an airspeed. ?This needs to be done at multiple airspeeds, we did 75, 80, 85, 90, & 95 (knots) lightweight, and 80, 85, 90, & 95 (knots) at gross weight. Started a timer as passing through 7000 noted time at 6000 feet, and stopped the timer at 5000 feet. Then: 2000 (this is how far you descended) / time (in seconds) Then: The answer from above x 60 ?This converts the value from Feet per Second to Feet per Minute This is your sink rate in Feet per Minute Then: (Airspeed MPH x 88) / Sink Rate FPM or (Airspeed Knots x 101.27) / Sink Rate FPM This is you Lift to Drag Ratio or Glide Ratio ?The highest L/D Ratio is the winner and should be used as a guideline for your glide speed. For Climb: Use the same sort of procedure, start a climb at 3000 feet, start a timer as you pass through 4000 feet, stop the timer as you reach 6000 feet. ?Do this at several airspeeds, lightweight and gross weight. ?If I recall we used 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, @ 100 (knots). The process to interpret the data is well outlined in Vans documentation or AC 89-90. I am no expert, I am sure others on the list have more to offer, but now you know what I know.... ?What tests did you conduct during Phase 1? ?We are getting close to wrapping up Phase 1 and want to make sure we don't miss a test others have done.... Thanks, Jason Kreidler #40617 - N44YH Flying 4 - Partner Build -Sheboygan Falls, WI Kyle Hokel Tony Kolar Wayne Elsner Jason Kreidler ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:48 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Glide Test From: "Bob Turner" Yes, pulling the prop control out (coarse pitch, low rpm) will improve the glide. I know of no reason this shouldn't be done, in practice or in an actual emergency. Keep in mind, in a real emergency, that this won't work if the engine failure was due to zero oil pressure - you've got to get oil to the governor to get the prop to coarse pitch. So it might be a good idea to practice both ways! -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252234#252234 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.