---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/17/09: 41 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:14 AM - Re: Hanger for shoulder belts? (Rob Kermanj) 2. 05:14 AM - Re: Re: Winglts ? (Kelly McMullen) 3. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: Engine Delivery Question (Tim Olson) 4. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: Winglts ? (Robert Brunkenhoefer) 5. 07:40 AM - Re: Stewart Systems Primer Sealer (pascal) 6. 07:54 AM - Re: Stewart Systems Primer Sealer (Bill and Tami Britton) 7. 08:17 AM - david clarks headsets (Rob Kermanj) 8. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: Winglts ? (John Cox) 9. 08:20 AM - OSH RV-10 HQ (bcondrey) 10. 08:33 AM - Re: Stewart Systems Primer Sealer (John Cox) 11. 08:43 AM - Re: OSH RV-10 HQ (John Cox) 12. 10:06 AM - RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? (bcondrey) 13. 10:10 AM - Re: Re: Winglts ? (Robin Marks) 14. 10:42 AM - Re: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? (Bob Leffler) 15. 11:07 AM - Re: Stewart Systems Primer Sealer (John Cumins) 16. 11:07 AM - Re: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? (John Cram) 17. 11:41 AM - countersinking wing spars (John Trollinger) 18. 12:37 PM - Crossing the border blues (Les Kearney) 19. 01:10 PM - Re: Crossing the border blues (Tim Olson) 20. 01:23 PM - Re: Crossing the border blues (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 21. 01:55 PM - Re: Crossing the border blues (Rene Felker) 22. 02:13 PM - Re: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? (Robin Marks) 23. 02:14 PM - Re: Crossing the border blues (Les Kearney) 24. 02:34 PM - Re: Re: Winglts ? (Kelly McMullen) 25. 02:41 PM - Re: Crossing the border blues (Les Kearney) 26. 02:41 PM - Re: Crossing the border blues (Tim Olson) 27. 02:42 PM - Re: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? (Tim Olson) 28. 02:50 PM - Re: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? (Kelly McMullen) 29. 02:51 PM - Re: Crossing the border blues (Miller John) 30. 03:13 PM - Door Strap Location (Jeff Carpenter) 31. 03:38 PM - Re: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? (Chris) 32. 04:23 PM - Re: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? (Tim Olson) 33. 05:19 PM - Re: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? (Kelly McMullen) 34. 07:44 PM - Eyeball Vents (Les Kearney) 35. 07:44 PM - GPS Antenna Placement (Les Kearney) 36. 07:53 PM - Re: Door Strap Location (Don McDonald) 37. 07:58 PM - Re: GPS Antenna Placement (Robert Brunkenhoefer) 38. 08:04 PM - Re: GPS Antenna Placement (Deems Davis) 39. 08:11 PM - Re: GPS Antenna Placement (Kelly McMullen) 40. 08:20 PM - Re: GPS Antenna Placement (Les Kearney) 41. 09:40 PM - Re: Stewart Systems Primer Sealer (dogsbark@comcast.net) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:34 AM PST US From: Rob Kermanj Subject: Re: RV10-List: Hanger for shoulder belts? Me too. do not archive On Jul 13, 2009, at 1:14 PM, wrote: > > Still looking for the response to where did you get the headliner? > I believe the question goes to Don McDonald who posted the very > nice picture of the hanger location that prompted the question. > Others are anxiously waiting!!! > > Thanks, > Rich > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:27 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Winglts ? From: Kelly McMullen Unfortunately, VGs benefits come at a cost of reduced cruise speed. Depends on airfoil and max speed range. I would not be surprised to see a loss of 3-5 kts from cruise. Fine if you main mission is back country, not so good if you mainly fly cross country. On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 9:26 PM, John Cox wrote: > > Tim James #623 has done a major improvement in both handling and low > speed flight with his VGs. Others might query at OSH and post their > impressions here. > > The 10 can provide some great, short, soft, H DenAlt landings and > unimproved surfaces with a few reasonably simple mods. > > For many who never leave the asphalt jungle, I understand. > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:37 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Winglts ? > > > Yes I'll admit it, I would not add drop down winglets to my -10 if it > added 15 more knots in cruise and washed itself when it was dirty. > That being said... John have you seen the clear rubberized VG's on the > Cessna Columbia's leading edge? Small in profile and difficult to see > unless you are either looking for them or right up against the wing. > Also interesting because they are on the forward most portion of the > leading edge vs. typical VG's further up the curvature of the wing. > Interesting item. > I thought that one could design and mold them in 18" sections and just > link end to end. Then I remembered that one would have to conduct proper > R&D first. Oh that..... > > Robin > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:48 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Engine Delivery Question Don, That's one of the things I really like about you...these old (really really old) methods and concepts have been around longer than any of us, yet few people remember to use them in practical daily use. It's a dying art. You're darn creative with many of the things you do, and think outside the box a little. I've always appreciated fellow D-I-Y types. Even though we as airplane builders maybe are more D-I-Y than the average guy, there is still a lot of "build it for me, let me buy it"...so it's refreshing to see another guy who still has the spirit. I try to D-I-Y every chance I get, and I shed some blood at times working on car and airplane projects, but it saves money and gives you a good feeling in the end. I've used PVC pipe and a few 2x4's to move even small buildings across the yard before, and 3/4" PVC to roll large things in the garage. The theories of old can make things work out well today! Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Don McDonald wrote: > Just rmember Dave you can always just use pipe, pvc or other, to just > roll the crate where you want it. I moved a 2,000 milling machine into > a garage and then up a 12" step into my workshop using pipe. > Don > > --- On *Thu, 7/16/09, nukeflyboy //* wrote: > > > From: nukeflyboy > Subject: RV10-List: Re: Engine Delivery Question > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Date: Thursday, July 16, 2009, 4:47 PM > > > > > Thanks guys - that's what I needed to know. I'll be ready with the > HF dollies and an engine hoist on standby. > > -------- > Dave Moore > RV-6 flying > RV-10 QB - cabin top/fiberglass hell > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.; --> > > http://forums.sp; > - List Contribution Web Sbsp; > > http://www.===================== > > > > > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:37 AM PST US From: Robert Brunkenhoefer Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Winglts ? Thanks for the info I will try and check those items. Robert n661g 130hrs Sent from my iPhone Robert E. Brunkenhoefer Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C. 520 Lawrence St. Corpus Christi, Texas 78401 Phone: 361-888-8808 Facsimile: 361-888-6753 robert@brunklaw.com On Jul 16, 2009, at 9:21 PM, Linn Walters wrote: > > > > This is a first for me. I've used Cleveland brakes almost my whole > flying life, and find them better than the alternatives. My only > guess is that you ride the brakes while taxiing (give the brakes a > tap or two to keep the nose pointed to where you want to go rather > than constant pressure) ...... or your brakes don't relax when you > release them. I'd check to make sure the brake cylinder rides on > the pins freely. They don't need lubrication, which usually just > gums them up and attracts dirt. Are the pads wearing evenly??? > Uneven wear is a sign of the brake cylinder hanging up on the pins, > or a mounting problem. Improper break-in could also be a cause. > Linn > > Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote: >> > >> >> Anyone using other than Cleveland brakes mine are getting hot and >> wearing out too fast.any other brakes recommended or being used? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> Robert E. Brunkenhoefer >> Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C. >> 520 Lawrence St. >> Corpus Christi, Texas 78401 >> Phone: 361-888-8808 >> Facsimile: 361-888-6753 >> robert@brunklaw.com > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:57 AM PST US From: "pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stewart Systems Primer Sealer Look at the VAF forum and search Stewarts, they had a different name before, but there are some good reviews out there. I'll get it but I'm a few months away from needing it. P -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Fritzsche (Building)" Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 10:32 PM Subject: RV10-List: Stewart Systems Primer Sealer > > > I asked this question a while back and got no response. I will try again > as things may have changed. Has anyone used Stewart Systems Primer Sealer > to prime the inside of their aircraft? It is water based making it much > safer for the environment and the person spraying it. It can be seen at > www.stewartsystems.aero. If you have used it, what is your experience? > How does it compare to a two-part epoxy primer? I am tempted to try it, > but would like some user experience reports prior to jumping into the > water. > > Dave > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Dave Fritzsche > 40813 tail cone nearly finished > Puyallup, WA > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:14 AM PST US From: "Bill and Tami Britton" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stewart Systems Primer Sealer I am using it on my wings. On my tail kit/emp kit (RV-10), I used sherwin williams Aeropoxy--2 part primer/sealer. Aside from it being a pain to mix and then let it sit for 30 minutes before sprayed, I like it more than the water based Stewart Systems. The Stewart systems is harder to get the spray gun set correctly. When I first started using it I got lots of "blotches". Finally I got the gun set up and It sprays OK. The nice thing about it is that it can nearly be sprayed directly out of the container. I've found that it does take a little water added to get the correct spray consistency. Please note that I have very little painting experience so others may have had better luck with the product. The stewart systems does have good adhesion. Probably nearly as good as the SW aeropoxy I used. I'll probably finish the wings with the SS then go back to the SW product on the fuse. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Fritzsche (Building)" Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:32 AM Subject: RV10-List: Stewart Systems Primer Sealer > > > I asked this question a while back and got no response. I will try > again as things may have changed. Has anyone used Stewart Systems > Primer Sealer to prime the inside of their aircraft? It is water based > making it much safer for the environment and the person spraying it. It > can be seen at www.stewartsystems.aero. If you have used it, what is > your experience? How does it compare to a two-part epoxy primer? I am > tempted to try it, but would like some user experience reports prior to > jumping into the water. > > Dave > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Dave Fritzsche > 40813 tail cone nearly finished > Puyallup, WA > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06:08:00 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:39 AM PST US From: Rob Kermanj Subject: RV10-List: david clarks headsets I am looking for a couple of DC headsets for the rear seats. I have been cheap and not wanted to spend the money for the occasional rear passengers. Anyone wanting to upgrade please contact me off line with model and price. My only requirements are that they are functional and in decent shape. do not archive On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:13 AM, Rob Kermanj wrote: > > Me too. > > do not archive > On Jul 13, 2009, at 1:14 PM, > wrote: > >> >> Still looking for the response to where did you get the headliner? >> I believe the question goes to Don McDonald who posted the very >> nice picture of the hanger location that prompted the question. >> Others are anxiously waiting!!! >> >> Thanks, >> Rich >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:34 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Winglts ? From: "John Cox" Tim (James) did not report that to be the case. His testimony will be First Person. The manufacturer up in Washington also thought differently on "certain models of aircraft" so YMMV. I am interested in hearing from others on the subject who have walked the walk. Any Columbia/Cessna 400 drivers out there. They put the pressure on Mooney and upped the ante for "Fastest Certified SEL". It may be found that a "Faster" laminar flow airfoil must be the first step to trade those knots you are referencing. Your position is noted. Every kit builder should know their mission before beginning the journey. Getting lost, detoured or discontinuing the course is unfortunate. See you all at the destination. John From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 5:13 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Winglts ? Unfortunately, VGs benefits come at a cost of reduced cruise speed. Depends on airfoil and max speed range. I would not be surprised to see a loss of 3-5 kts from cruise. Fine if you main mission is back country, not so good if you mainly fly cross country. On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 9:26 PM, John Cox wrote: Tim James #623 has done a major improvement in both handling and low speed flight with his VGs. Others might query at OSH and post their impressions here. The 10 can provide some great, short, soft, H DenAlt landings and unimproved surfaces with a few reasonably simple mods. For many who never leave the asphalt jungle, I understand. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:37 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Winglts ? Yes I'll admit it, I would not add drop down winglets to my -10 if it added 15 more knots in cruise and washed itself when it was dirty. That being said... John have you seen the clear rubberized VG's on the Cessna Columbia's leading edge? Small in profile and difficult to see unless you are either looking for them or right up against the wing. Also interesting because they are on the forward most portion of the leading edge vs. typical VG's further up the curvature of the wing. Interesting item. I thought that one could design and mold them in 18" sections and just link end to end. Then I remembered that one would have to conduct proper R&D first. Oh that..... Robin ======================= arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:10 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: OSH RV-10 HQ From: "bcondrey" Looks like we're set for this year - 22 sites total (we'll again have a vacant site for group cookouts, etc). In addition, Tim will be a row or two east along with Vic, Scott and maybe a couple other REALLY early arrivers. http://www.myrv10.com/osh/2009_Campsites.html If you want to join in there's still a little time - you'll have to use PayPal to send funds though. There are a few people leaving on the Thursday/Friday before the last weekend of the show so there's also the possibility of contacting them to take over a site and still be with the group. Even if you don't camp in the group we'll be having a couple of big group BBQs - more info to come. Bob N442PM (flying) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253478#253478 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:17 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Stewart Systems Primer Sealer From: "John Cox" I attended their class, reviewed the product and determined it is great for select applications. None of which meet mine for the aluminum & composite RV-10 in our locale. Others will be happy with it. I am addicted to acrylic enamels and two part epoxies. The addiction began forty years ago and the manufacturers have continued to lower the VOCs and improve the application equipment at exorbitant pricing. IMHO, skin protection and respiratory supply is a must. Will watch respectfully when a Stewart Systems aircraft gets a Golden Lindy. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Fritzsche (Building) Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 10:32 PM Subject: RV10-List: Stewart Systems Primer Sealer I asked this question a while back and got no response. I will try again as things may have changed. Has anyone used Stewart Systems Primer Sealer to prime the inside of their aircraft? It is water based making it much safer for the environment and the person spraying it. It can be seen at www.stewartsystems.aero. If you have used it, what is your experience? How does it compare to a two-part epoxy primer? I am tempted to try it, but would like some user experience reports prior to jumping into the water. Dave -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Fritzsche 40813 tail cone nearly finished Puyallup, WA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:02 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: OSH RV-10 HQ From: "John Cox" I have someone arriving ORD that is trying to "Hook Up" with a wheeled transportation alternative to Camp Condrey on Monday for the rest of the entire week. Anyone know of campers with an open spot? She is the friend of one of the painters here in the NW and has an option to stay and help AFS with the crowds that will form this year. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcondrey Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 8:20 AM Subject: RV10-List: OSH RV-10 HQ Looks like we're set for this year - 22 sites total (we'll again have a vacant site for group cookouts, etc). In addition, Tim will be a row or two east along with Vic, Scott and maybe a couple other REALLY early arrivers. http://www.myrv10.com/osh/2009_Campsites.html If you want to join in there's still a little time - you'll have to use PayPal to send funds though. There are a few people leaving on the Thursday/Friday before the last weekend of the show so there's also the possibility of contacting them to take over a site and still be with the group. Even if you don't camp in the group we'll be having a couple of big group BBQs - more info to come. Bob N442PM (flying) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253478#253478 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:39 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? From: "bcondrey" Anybody know anything about this? IDENTIFICATION Regis#: 730WL Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10 Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N Damage: Minor LOCATION City: CONROE State: TX Country: US DESCRIPTION AIRCRAFT ON LANDING, GEAR COLLAPSED, CONROE, TX INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0 # Crew: 2 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: WEATHER: SPECI 161745Z 00000KT 10SM SCT 045 34/22 A3003 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253498#253498 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:23 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Winglts ? From: "Robin Marks" I added VG's to my souped up, mint condition Cherokee 140. The VG's made a 3-4 MPH difference in the stall speed there by really reducing the touchdown speed and ground roll. As far as the top end it is difficult to tell as full power forward was unchanged at a brisk walking pace L I doubt Columbia drivers will know as they either have them or they don't. Those certified guys don't take hardware on and off like garage builders. I vaguely remember that there was minimal top end loss for some of the Cessna (high wing) VG packages but again high speeds are not their forte. When is the last time you saw a 182 fly by? Yawn... Robin From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 8:19 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Winglts ? Tim (James) did not report that to be the case. His testimony will be First Person. The manufacturer up in Washington also thought differently on "certain models of aircraft" so YMMV. I am interested in hearing from others on the subject who have walked the walk. Any Columbia/Cessna 400 drivers out there. They put the pressure on Mooney and upped the ante for "Fastest Certified SEL". It may be found that a "Faster" laminar flow airfoil must be the first step to trade those knots you are referencing. Your position is noted. Every kit builder should know their mission before beginning the journey. Getting lost, detoured or discontinuing the course is unfortunate. See you all at the destination. John From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 5:13 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Winglts ? Unfortunately, VGs benefits come at a cost of reduced cruise speed. Depends on airfoil and max speed range. I would not be surprised to see a loss of 3-5 kts from cruise. Fine if you main mission is back country, not so good if you mainly fly cross country. On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 9:26 PM, John Cox wrote: Tim James #623 has done a major improvement in both handling and low speed flight with his VGs. Others might query at OSH and post their impressions here. The 10 can provide some great, short, soft, H DenAlt landings and unimproved surfaces with a few reasonably simple mods. For many who never leave the asphalt jungle, I understand. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:37 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Winglts ? Yes I'll admit it, I would not add drop down winglets to my -10 if it added 15 more knots in cruise and washed itself when it was dirty. That being said... John have you seen the clear rubberized VG's on the Cessna Columbia's leading edge? Small in profile and difficult to see unless you are either looking for them or right up against the wing. Also interesting because they are on the forward most portion of the leading edge vs. typical VG's further up the curvature of the wing. Interesting item. I thought that one could design and mold them in 18" sections and just link end to end. Then I remembered that one would have to conduct proper R&D first. Oh that..... Robin ======================= arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:56 AM PST US From: "Bob Leffler" Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? Isn't that Bill Gipson's RV-10 with the LS-1 in it? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcondrey Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 1:06 PM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? Anybody know anything about this? IDENTIFICATION Regis#: 730WL Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10 Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N Damage: Minor LOCATION City: CONROE State: TX Country: US DESCRIPTION AIRCRAFT ON LANDING, GEAR COLLAPSED, CONROE, TX INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0 # Crew: 2 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: WEATHER: SPECI 161745Z 00000KT 10SM SCT 045 34/22 A3003 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253498#253498 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:08 AM PST US From: "John Cumins" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Stewart Systems Primer Sealer Dave I have used the Primer from Napa Auto Parts. It is a Acid etching primer to the Alum. Prep process is only to scuff the shine off the metal wash with soap and water then prime. I get it in rattle can at about $7.50 a can when I but it in a 6 can case. It works great, is very tuff and I think it is the cheapest and easiest I have seen out there. Napa manager told me it is the same as the Sherwin Williams acid etch product they sell in 2 part product but them oem it to Napa. Your welcome to contact me it you want more info John 40864 Assy Elavators, and picked up wings last weekend. N864FC reserved -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Fritzsche (Building) Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 10:32 PM Subject: RV10-List: Stewart Systems Primer Sealer I asked this question a while back and got no response. I will try again as things may have changed. Has anyone used Stewart Systems Primer Sealer to prime the inside of their aircraft? It is water based making it much safer for the environment and the person spraying it. It can be seen at www.stewartsystems.aero. If you have used it, what is your experience? How does it compare to a two-part epoxy primer? I am tempted to try it, but would like some user experience reports prior to jumping into the water. Dave -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Fritzsche 40813 tail cone nearly finished Puyallup, WA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:08 AM PST US From: John Cram Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? Yes it is. according to FAA N number > From: rv@thelefflers.com > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? > Date: Fri=2C 17 Jul 2009 13:47:24 -0400 > > > Isn't that Bill Gipson's RV-10 with the LS-1 in it? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcondrey > Sent: Friday=2C July 17=2C 2009 1:06 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? > > > Anybody know anything about this? > > IDENTIFICATION > Regis#: 730WL Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10 > Date: 07/16/2009 Time: 1729 > > Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N > Damage: Minor > > LOCATION > City: CONROE State: TX Country: US > > DESCRIPTION > AIRCRAFT ON LANDING=2C GEAR COLLAPSED=2C CONROE=2C TX > > INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0 > # Crew: 2 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: > # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: > # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: > > WEATHER: SPECI 161745Z 00000KT 10SM SCT 045 34/22 A3003 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253498#253498 > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:57 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: countersinking wing spars From: John Trollinger quick question, I am countersinking the wing spars for the skins and made a dimpled template to ensure correct depth. With the hole countersunk to accommodate the dimpled skin it seems the countersink goes very close to all the way through the spar. Now when I am deburring the other side it is enlarging the whole a little it seems. Is this normal? thanks, John ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:37:59 PM PST US From: "Les Kearney" Subject: RV10-List: Crossing the border blues Hi This is a heads up for anyone on the correct side of the 49th who plans to head to KOSH. Apparently the CBP section of DHS has changed entry rules again. I called a nearby port of entry for the current rules and found out that the Form 178 that had to be faxed last year now has to be filed electronically. The kicker is that the EAPIS system takes, according to the website, 5-7 days to issue an ID. Without the ID you can't file the form which means no flying into the US from Canada. What is absolutely hilarious is that you have to file notification of your exit from the US when returning to Canada. I defy anyone to find logic in that.. Please, please tell me that the mental giants who designed this process aren't the same ones who are now running the auto / bank / health / . industries in the US. If they are, God help your economy. Cheers Les "hoping for an ID by next Thursday" ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:23 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Crossing the border blues I know, that eAPIS stuff.....gee whiz! I thought it was hillarious that in order to LEAVE to go to the Bahamas you'd now be forced to file with eAPIS. Can you imagine: You're a terrorist who wants to get out of the U.S., so you decide that you're going to apply for a CBP account to eAPIS and file your manifest. Really, is all this process going to stop anyone from doing anything at all? I think though that you'll find getting your account set up takes less time than the site quotes. But, if you're flying in from out of the U.S. I'd suggest getting online TODAY and starting the process. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD Les Kearney wrote: > Hi > > > > This is a heads up for anyone on the correct side of the 49^th who plans > to head to KOSH. Apparently the CBP section of DHS has changed entry > rules again. I called a nearby port of entry for the current rules and > found out that the Form 178 that had to be faxed last year now has to be > filed electronically. The kicker is that the EAPIS system takes, > according to the website, 5-7 days to issue an ID. Without the ID you > cant file the form which means no flying into the US from Canada. > > > > What is absolutely hilarious is that you have to file notification of > your exit from the US when returning to Canada. I defy anyone to find > logic in that. > > > > Please, please tell me that the mental giants who designed this process > arent the same ones who are now running the auto / bank / health / > industries in the US. If they are, God help your economy. > > > > Cheers > > > > Les hoping for an ID by next Thursday > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:00 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Crossing the border blues From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" Les, I had been meaning to set up an account and your email motivated me to get on it. Interestingly the email activating the account came within minutes of filling out the initial form online. Bob Les Kearney wrote: > Hi > > > > This is a heads up for anyone on the correct side of the 49^th who plans > to head to KOSH. Apparently the CBP section of DHS has changed entry > rules again. I called a nearby port of entry for the current rules and > found out that the Form 178 that had to be faxed last year now has to be > filed electronically. The kicker is that the EAPIS system takes, > according to the website, 5-7 days to issue an ID. Without the ID you > can't file the form which means no flying into the US from Canada. > > > > What is absolutely hilarious is that you have to file notification of > your exit from the US when returning to Canada. I defy anyone to find > logic in that.... > > > > Please, please tell me that the mental giants who designed this process > aren't the same ones who are now running the auto / bank / health / ... > industries in the US. If they are, God help your economy. > > > > Cheers > > > > Les "hoping for an ID by next Thursday" > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:46 PM PST US From: "Rene Felker" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Crossing the border blues Sorry to say, same guys are running the auto/bank/...etc in the us. How long is the login good for? I am not planning on crossing the boarder soon, but you never know. Do you think I should get one now just in case I decide to do A fall trip up to the "correct" side of the 49th? Rene' Felker RV-10 N423CF Flying 801-721-6080 From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 1:29 PM Subject: RV10-List: Crossing the border blues Hi This is a heads up for anyone on the correct side of the 49th who plans to head to KOSH. Apparently the CBP section of DHS has changed entry rules again. I called a nearby port of entry for the current rules and found out that the Form 178 that had to be faxed last year now has to be filed electronically. The kicker is that the EAPIS system takes, according to the website, 5-7 days to issue an ID. Without the ID you can't file the form which means no flying into the US from Canada. What is absolutely hilarious is that you have to file notification of your exit from the US when returning to Canada. I defy anyone to find logic in that.. Please, please tell me that the mental giants who designed this process aren't the same ones who are now running the auto / bank / health / . industries in the US. If they are, God help your economy. Cheers Les "hoping for an ID by next Thursday" ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:52 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? From: "Robin Marks" The gear collapse was either caused by the crew being: Too Fat or Two Fat Crew as detailed below. You know the FAA and their abbreviating. INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0 # Crew: 2 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: Glad no one was hurt. Robin Do Not Archive From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cram Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 11:03 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? Yes it is. according to FAA N number > From: rv@thelefflers.com > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? > Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:47:24 -0400 > > > Isn't that Bill Gipson's RV-10 with the LS-1 in it? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcondrey > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 1:06 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? > > > Anybody know anything about this? > > IDENTIFICATION > Regis#: 730WL Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10 > Date: 07/16/2009 Time: 1729 > > Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N > Damage: Minor > > LOCATION > City: CONROE State: TX Country: US > > DESCRIPTION > AIRCRAFT ON LANDING, GEAR COLLAPSED, CONROE, TX > > INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0 > # Crew: 2 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: > # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: > # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: > > WEATHER: SPECI 161745Z 00000KT 10SM SCT 045 34/22 A3003 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253498#253498 > > > > > >==================== > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:49 PM PST US From: "Les Kearney" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Crossing the border blues Hmmm The account id showed up in less than an hour. If that is all that it takes why do they say it "usually arrives in 5-7 days"? Overstating the time requirements does no one any favours and just causes needless concerns. Perhaps they are just setting the bar so low anyone can fall over it and claim to be a hero. Anyway, I am glad to hear that the US is now tracking all terrorists who are leaving the country. I hope they let us know when they are coming north of the 49th. Then again Janet Napolitano recently claimed that the 911 terrorists entered the US via Canada so I don't hold out much hope... Cheers Les -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: July-17-09 1:56 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Crossing the border blues I know, that eAPIS stuff.....gee whiz! I thought it was hillarious that in order to LEAVE to go to the Bahamas you'd now be forced to file with eAPIS. Can you imagine: You're a terrorist who wants to get out of the U.S., so you decide that you're going to apply for a CBP account to eAPIS and file your manifest. Really, is all this process going to stop anyone from doing anything at all? I think though that you'll find getting your account set up takes less time than the site quotes. But, if you're flying in from out of the U.S. I'd suggest getting online TODAY and starting the process. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD Les Kearney wrote: > Hi > > > > This is a heads up for anyone on the correct side of the 49^th who plans > to head to KOSH. Apparently the CBP section of DHS has changed entry > rules again. I called a nearby port of entry for the current rules and > found out that the Form 178 that had to be faxed last year now has to be > filed electronically. The kicker is that the EAPIS system takes, > according to the website, 5-7 days to issue an ID. Without the ID you > can't file the form which means no flying into the US from Canada. > > > > What is absolutely hilarious is that you have to file notification of > your exit from the US when returning to Canada. I defy anyone to find > logic in that.. > > > > Please, please tell me that the mental giants who designed this process > aren't the same ones who are now running the auto / bank / health / . > industries in the US. If they are, God help your economy. > > > > Cheers > > > > Les "hoping for an ID by next Thursday" > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:37 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Winglts ? A few brave souls tried them on Mooneys after they were STCd. I believe universally they removed them, as they cost 5 kts on the laminar flow wing. Maybe not an issue with the -10, but would be worth some before and after testing to know. Robin Marks wrote: > I added VGs to my souped up, mint condition Cherokee 140. The VGs made > a 3-4 MPH difference in the stall speed there by really reducing the > touchdown speed and ground roll. As far as the top end it is difficult > to tell as full power forward was unchanged at a brisk walking pace L > > I doubt Columbia drivers will know as they either have them or they > dont. Those certified guys dont take hardware on and off like garage > builders. > > I vaguely remember that there was minimal top end loss for some of the > Cessna (high wing) VG packages but again high speeds are not their > forte. When is the last time you saw a 182 fly by? Yawn > > > > Robin > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Cox > Tim (James) did not report that to be the case. His testimony will be > First Person. The manufacturer up in Washington also thought > differently on "certain models of aircraft" so YMMV. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:17 PM PST US From: Les Kearney Subject: Re: RV10-List: Crossing the border blues I would do it now and then check what the rules are a month or so before the trip. I have been going to kosh since 1997 and every year since 911 the rules change. Usually for the worse. Cheers Les Sent from my iPhone On 2009-07-17, at 2:41 PM, Rene Felker wrote: > Sorry to say, same guys are running the auto/bank/..etc in the us. > > > How long is the login good for? I am not planning on crossing the > boarder soon, but you never know. Do you think I should get one now > just in case I decide to do A fall trip up to the =9Ccorrect =9D side > of the 49th? > > > Rene' Felker > > RV-10 N423CF Flying > > 801-721-6080 > > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 1:29 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Crossing the border blues > > > Hi > > > This is a heads up for anyone on the correct side of the 49th who > plans to head to KOSH. Apparently the CBP section of DHS has changed > entry rules again. I called a nearby port of entry for the current > rules and found out that the Form 178 that had to be faxed last year > now has to be filed electronically. The kicker is that the EAPIS > system takes, according to the website, 5-7 days to issue an ID. > Without the ID you can=99t file the form which means no flying into th > e US from Canada. > > > What is absolutely hilarious is that you have to file notification > of your exit from the US when returning to Canada. I defy anyone to > find logic in that. > > > Please, please tell me that the mental giants who designed this > process aren=99t the same ones who are now running the auto / bank / h > ealth / industries in the US. If they are, God help your economy. > > > Cheers > > > Les =9Choping for an ID by next Thursday=9D > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:23 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Crossing the border blues If you are planning on doing ANY international flying, it would pay to get the login. It should be a one-time thing. And, if you have any possible plans to do international flying, you'll also need a customs sticker and that can take 4 weeks to get. So, plan ahead for those things. The customs sticker is $27.50/yr, so it's cheap enough you could buy one each year if you think there's a chance you could use it. It pays to be prepared though. For our Bahamas trip I wanted to use eAPIS to file the return manifest and the online setup was complicated enough that I couldn't do it on the spur of the moment. Getting the customs sticker is kind of a pain, web wise, too...their site simple sucks. Helpful people via phone though. Also, if you are thinking Bahamas, or somewhere NOT Canada, then it takes a short while for the Radio permits (I got both) too. I was going to try to just get the one and cheat on the other, but it's a one-time lifetime fee, so decided the best bet in todays climate is to be 100% legal. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Rene Felker wrote: > Sorry to say, same guys are running the auto/bank/..etc in the us. > > > > How long is the login good for? I am not planning on crossing the > boarder soon, but you never know. Do you think I should get one now > just in case I decide to do A fall trip up to the correct side of the > 49^th ? > > > > Rene' Felker > > RV-10 N423CF Flying > > 801-721-6080 > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Les Kearney > *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2009 1:29 PM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Crossing the border blues > > > > Hi > > > > This is a heads up for anyone on the correct side of the 49^th who plans > to head to KOSH. Apparently the CBP section of DHS has changed entry > rules again. I called a nearby port of entry for the current rules and > found out that the Form 178 that had to be faxed last year now has to be > filed electronically. The kicker is that the EAPIS system takes, > according to the website, 5-7 days to issue an ID. Without the ID you > cant file the form which means no flying into the US from Canada. > > > > What is absolutely hilarious is that you have to file notification of > your exit from the US when returning to Canada. I defy anyone to find > logic in that. > > > > Please, please tell me that the mental giants who designed this process > arent the same ones who are now running the auto / bank / health / > industries in the US. If they are, God help your economy. > > > > Cheers > > > > Les hoping for an ID by next Thursday > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > * * > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:10 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? Now THAT is funny......2 FAT.....I didn't even catch that at first. What did get me curious though is....there was a crew of 2 in the plane. Was the flyoff complete yet? I hadn't heard that it had been yet and I know there were many curious people about any out of the ordinary powerplant. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Robin Marks wrote: > The gear collapse was either caused by the crew being: > > > > Too Fat or Two Fat Crew as detailed below. You know the FAA and their > abbreviating. > > > > > > INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0 > > # Crew: 2 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: > > # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: > > # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: > > > > Glad no one was hurt. > > > > Robin > > Do Not Archive > > > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John > Cram *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2009 11:03 AM *To:* RV10 LIST > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? > > > > Yes it is. according to FAA N number > >> From: rv@thelefflers.com To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: >> RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 >> 13:47:24 -0400 >> >> >> >> Isn't that Bill Gipson's RV-10 with the LS-1 in it? >> >> -----Original Message----- From: >> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcondrey >> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 1:06 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? >> >> >> >> Anybody know anything about this? >> >> IDENTIFICATION Regis#: 730WL Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10 >> Date: 07/16/2009 Time: 1729 >> >> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N >> Damage: Minor >> >> LOCATION City: CONROE State: TX Country: US >> >> DESCRIPTION AIRCRAFT ON LANDING, GEAR COLLAPSED, CONROE, TX >> >> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0 # Crew: 2 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # >> Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: >> >> >> WEATHER: SPECI 161745Z 00000KT 10SM SCT 045 34/22 A3003 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253498#253498 >> >> >> >> >> > >> ==================== >> >> >> > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > * * > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:36 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? Will be interesting to learn the details, and whether it was nose gear, or mains or both. However, it appears that a correct reading is crew 2, fat 0. So the skinnys crew win. Tim Olson wrote: > > Now THAT is funny......2 FAT.....I didn't even catch that > at first. > > What did get me curious though is....there was a crew of > 2 in the plane. Was the flyoff complete yet? I hadn't > heard that it had been yet and I know there were many > curious people about any out of the ordinary powerplant. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > > Robin Marks wrote: >> The gear collapse was either caused by the crew being: >> >> >> >> Too Fat or Two Fat Crew as detailed below. You know the FAA and their >> abbreviating. >> >> >> >> >> >> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0 >> >> # Crew: 2 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: >> >> # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: >> >> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: >> >> >> >> Glad no one was hurt. >> >> >> >> Robin >> >> Do Not Archive >> >> >> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John >> Cram *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2009 11:03 AM *To:* RV10 LIST *Subject:* >> RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? >> >> >> >> Yes it is. according to FAA N number >> >>> From: rv@thelefflers.com To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: >>> RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 >>> 13:47:24 -0400 >>> >>> >>> >>> Isn't that Bill Gipson's RV-10 with the LS-1 in it? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: >>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcondrey >>> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 1:06 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? >>> >>> >>> >>> Anybody know anything about this? >>> >>> IDENTIFICATION Regis#: 730WL Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10 Date: >>> 07/16/2009 Time: 1729 >>> >>> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N >>> Damage: Minor >>> >>> LOCATION City: CONROE State: TX Country: US >>> >>> DESCRIPTION AIRCRAFT ON LANDING, GEAR COLLAPSED, CONROE, TX >>> >>> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0 # Crew: 2 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # >>> Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: >>> >>> >>> WEATHER: SPECI 161745Z 00000KT 10SM SCT 045 34/22 A3003 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253498#253498 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> ==================== >>> >>> >>> >> >> * * >> >> * * >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> *http://forums.matronics.com* >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >> >> ** >> >> * * >> >> * >> >> >> * > > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:38 PM PST US From: Miller John Subject: Re: RV10-List: Crossing the border blues Les -no worry that these DHS folks are running the other government takeovers. The latest crop of government oversee'ers is worse than DHS, if you can believe that! The latest great example is the new "car czar" who is a former hard line, old time union boss with NO experience running a business...... What are the immigration rules for exiles running north for freedom .... -:) grumpy do not archive >> >> To:* rv10-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* RV10-List: Crossing the border blues >> Hi >> This is a heads up for anyone on the correct side of the 49^th who >> plans to head to KOSH. Apparently the CBP section of DHS has >> changed entry rules again. I called a nearby port of entry for the >> current rules and found out that the Form 178 that had to be faxed >> last year now has to be filed electronically. The kicker is that >> the EAPIS system takes, according to the website, 5-7 days to issue >> an ID. Without the ID you cant file the form which means no flying >> into the US from Canada. >> What is absolutely hilarious is that you have to file notification >> of your exit from the US when returning to Canada. I defy anyone to >> find logic in that. >> Please, please tell me that the mental giants who designed this >> process arent the same ones who are now running the auto / bank / >> health / industries in the US. If they are, God help your economy. >> Cheers >> Les hoping for an ID by next Thursday ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:00 PM PST US From: Jeff Carpenter Subject: RV10-List: Door Strap Location I'm considering a leather strap to pull the door closed... appx 1' long running along the lower inside edge of the door. The ideal location for this strap would be both reachable and result in the door pulling in evenly (fore and aft) when held in the center. It seems to me that that could be one of two locations... centered in the length of the door or centered on a line drawn down between the two hinge points. Does anyone flying have a feel for where that might be? Jeff Carpenter 40304 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:35 PM PST US From: "Chris" Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? Check it out -Chris 40072 http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/local/090716_experimental_plane_crash -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 5:46 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? Will be interesting to learn the details, and whether it was nose gear, or mains or both. However, it appears that a correct reading is crew 2, fat 0. So the skinnys crew win. Tim Olson wrote: > > Now THAT is funny......2 FAT.....I didn't even catch that > at first. > > What did get me curious though is....there was a crew of > 2 in the plane. Was the flyoff complete yet? I hadn't > heard that it had been yet and I know there were many > curious people about any out of the ordinary powerplant. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > > Robin Marks wrote: >> The gear collapse was either caused by the crew being: >> >> >> >> Too Fat or Two Fat Crew as detailed below. You know the FAA and their >> abbreviating. >> >> >> >> >> >> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0 >> >> # Crew: 2 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: >> >> # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: >> >> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: >> >> >> >> Glad no one was hurt. >> >> >> >> Robin >> >> Do Not Archive >> >> >> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John >> Cram *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2009 11:03 AM *To:* RV10 LIST *Subject:* >> RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? >> >> >> >> Yes it is. according to FAA N number >> >>> From: rv@thelefflers.com To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: >>> RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 >>> 13:47:24 -0400 >>> >>> >>> >>> Isn't that Bill Gipson's RV-10 with the LS-1 in it? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: >>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcondrey >>> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 1:06 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? >>> >>> >>> >>> Anybody know anything about this? >>> >>> IDENTIFICATION Regis#: 730WL Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10 Date: >>> 07/16/2009 Time: 1729 >>> >>> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N >>> Damage: Minor >>> >>> LOCATION City: CONROE State: TX Country: US >>> >>> DESCRIPTION AIRCRAFT ON LANDING, GEAR COLLAPSED, CONROE, TX >>> >>> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0 # Crew: 2 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # >>> Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: >>> >>> >>> WEATHER: SPECI 161745Z 00000KT 10SM SCT 045 34/22 A3003 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253498#253498 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> ==================== >>> >>> >>> >> >> * * >> >> * * >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> *http://forums.matronics.com* >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >> >> ** >> >> * * >> >> * >> >> >> * > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:49 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? Come to think of it I do seem to remember a post that the time was flown off, so crew of 2 sounds perfectly fine. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Chris wrote: > > Check it out > -Chris > 40072 > http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/local/090716_experimental_plane_crash > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 5:46 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? > > > Will be interesting to learn the details, and whether it was nose gear, > or mains or both. However, it appears that a correct reading is crew 2, > fat 0. So the skinnys crew win. > > Tim Olson wrote: >> >> Now THAT is funny......2 FAT.....I didn't even catch that >> at first. >> >> What did get me curious though is....there was a crew of >> 2 in the plane. Was the flyoff complete yet? I hadn't >> heard that it had been yet and I know there were many >> curious people about any out of the ordinary powerplant. >> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD >> do not archive >> >> >> Robin Marks wrote: >>> The gear collapse was either caused by the crew being: >>> >>> >>> >>> Too Fat or Two Fat Crew as detailed below. You know the FAA and their >>> abbreviating. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0 >>> >>> # Crew: 2 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: >>> >>> # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: >>> >>> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: >>> >>> >>> >>> Glad no one was hurt. >>> >>> >>> >>> Robin >>> >>> Do Not Archive >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John >>> Cram *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2009 11:03 AM *To:* RV10 LIST *Subject:* >>> RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? >>> >>> >>> >>> Yes it is. according to FAA N number >>> >>>> From: rv@thelefflers.com To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: >>>> RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 >>>> 13:47:24 -0400 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Isn't that Bill Gipson's RV-10 with the LS-1 in it? >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: >>>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcondrey >>>> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 1:06 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>>> Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Anybody know anything about this? >>>> >>>> IDENTIFICATION Regis#: 730WL Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10 Date: >>>> 07/16/2009 Time: 1729 >>>> >>>> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N >>>> Damage: Minor >>>> >>>> LOCATION City: CONROE State: TX Country: US >>>> >>>> DESCRIPTION AIRCRAFT ON LANDING, GEAR COLLAPSED, CONROE, TX >>>> >>>> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0 # Crew: 2 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # >>>> Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: >>>> >>>> >>>> WEATHER: SPECI 161745Z 00000KT 10SM SCT 045 34/22 A3003 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253498#253498 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ==================== >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> * * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> *http://forums.matronics.com* >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >>> >>> ** >>> >>> * * >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >> >> >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? From: Kelly McMullen Hmm, wonder what damage the foaming did to the "wreck" On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Chris wrote: > > Check it out > -Chris > 40072 > http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/local/090716_experimental_plane_crash > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 5:46 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? > > > Will be interesting to learn the details, and whether it was nose gear, > or mains or both. However, it appears that a correct reading is crew 2, > fat 0. So the skinnys crew win. > > Tim Olson wrote: > > > > Now THAT is funny......2 FAT.....I didn't even catch that > > at first. > > > > What did get me curious though is....there was a crew of > > 2 in the plane. Was the flyoff complete yet? I hadn't > > heard that it had been yet and I know there were many > > curious people about any out of the ordinary powerplant. > > > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > > do not archive > > > > > > Robin Marks wrote: > >> The gear collapse was either caused by the crew being: > >> > >> > >> > >> Too Fat or Two Fat Crew as detailed below. You know the FAA and their > >> abbreviating. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0 > >> > >> # Crew: 2 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: > >> > >> # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: > >> > >> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: > >> > >> > >> > >> Glad no one was hurt. > >> > >> > >> > >> Robin > >> > >> Do Not Archive > >> > >> > >> > >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John > >> Cram *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2009 11:03 AM *To:* RV10 LIST *Subject:* > >> RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? > >> > >> > >> > >> Yes it is. according to FAA N number > >> > >>> From: rv@thelefflers.com To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: > >>> RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 > >>> 13:47:24 -0400 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Isn't that Bill Gipson's RV-10 with the LS-1 in it? > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- From: > >>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcondrey > >>> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 1:06 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com > >>> Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Gear Collapse Yesterday? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Anybody know anything about this? > >>> > >>> IDENTIFICATION Regis#: 730WL Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10 Date: > >>> 07/16/2009 Time: 1729 > >>> > >>> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N > >>> Damage: Minor > >>> > >>> LOCATION City: CONROE State: TX Country: US > >>> > >>> DESCRIPTION AIRCRAFT ON LANDING, GEAR COLLAPSED, CONROE, TX > >>> > >>> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0 # Crew: 2 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # > >>> Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: > >>> > >>> > >>> WEATHER: SPECI 161745Z 00000KT 10SM SCT 045 34/22 A3003 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Read this topic online here: > >>> > >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253498#253498 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >>> ==================== > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> * * > >> > >> * * > >> > >> ** > >> > >> ** > >> > >> ** > >> > >> ** > >> > >> ** > >> > >> ** > >> > >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > >> > >> ** > >> > >> ** > >> > >> ** > >> > >> *http://forums.matronics.com* > >> > >> ** > >> > >> ** > >> > >> ** > >> > >> ** > >> > >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > >> > >> ** > >> > >> * * > >> > >> * > >> > >> > >> * > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:37 PM PST US From: "Les Kearney" Subject: RV10-List: Eyeball Vents Hi I have a bit of a plug or Stien's eyeball vents. I recently purchased the Aveo vents from ACS and found that they didn't seal very well when closed. I returned them and ordered the vents from Stein. I was mightily impressed - they sealed completely with negligible leakage. They are truly well made - as is claimed on Stien's site. So if you need vents, my recommendation is to go with Stein. Cheers Les ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:40 PM PST US From: "Les Kearney" Subject: RV10-List: GPS Antenna Placement Hi As I work my way through canopy hell, I am wondering about the placement of my GPS antenna. Is there any reason it cannot be mounted on the tail cone, just aft of the canopy. I understand it should be mounted as high as possible, but given the canopy is f/g, I was wondering if the tail cone would be acceptable. Comments front the antenna mavens appreciated. Inquiring minds need to know. Les #40643 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:42 PM PST US From: Don McDonald Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door Strap Location I looked quite a few places and finally found these at an $8.98 store in Ro seville Ca.- They were perfect, and only $1.98.- I cut them to length, and then had them sew up.- They work perfect.... so nice to be able-to just reach up and close the door. Don McDonald #40636 - 55 hours FLYING --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Jeff Carpenter wrote: From: Jeff Carpenter Subject: RV10-List: Door Strap Location I'm considering a leather strap to pull the door closed... appx 1' long run ning along the lower inside edge of the door.- The ideal location for thi s strap would be both reachable and result in the door pulling in evenly (f ore and aft) when held in the center.- It seems to me that that could be one of two locations... centered in the length of the door or centered on a line drawn down between the two hinge points.- Does anyone flying have a feel for where that might be? Jeff Carpenter 40304 le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:07 PM PST US From: Robert Brunkenhoefer Subject: Re: RV10-List: GPS Antenna Placement I put the gps antennas in a recess in the center of the canopy Sent from my iPhone Robert E. Brunkenhoefer Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C. 520 Lawrence St. Corpus Christi, Texas 78401 Phone: 361-888-8808 Facsimile: 361-888-6753 robert@brunklaw.com On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:41 PM, "Les Kearney" wrote: > Hi > > > As I work my way through canopy hell, I am wondering about the > placement of my GPS antenna. Is there any reason it cannot be > mounted on the tail cone, just aft of the canopy. I understand it > should be mounted as high as possible, but given the canopy is f/g, > I was wondering if the tail cone would be acceptable. Comments front > the antenna mavens appreciated. > > > Inquiring minds need to know. > > > Les > > #40643 > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:55 PM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: GPS Antenna Placement Les, I'm not maven, but my gyro stabilized gimble mounted GPS antenna pylon seems to be working just fine ;-) . Seriously, I have one GPS antenna mounted on the tailcone just aft of the fiberglass cabin cover, and the other on the highpoint of the cabin cover. I haven't noticed a difference in reception. Deems Les Kearney wrote: > > Hi > > > > As I work my way through canopy hell, I am wondering about the > placement of my GPS antenna. Is there any reason it cannot be mounted > on the tail cone, just aft of the canopy. I understand it should be > mounted as high as possible, but given the canopy is f/g, I was > wondering if the tail cone would be acceptable. Comments front the > antenna mavens appreciated. > > > > Inquiring minds need to know. > > > > Les > > #40643 > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:17 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: GPS Antenna Placement Yeah, when are you going to show us your AWACS pylon? Deems Davis wrote: > > Les, I'm not maven, but my gyro stabilized gimble mounted GPS antenna > pylon seems to be working just fine ;-) . > > Seriously, I have one GPS antenna mounted on the tailcone just aft of > the fiberglass cabin cover, and the other on the highpoint of the cabin > cover. I haven't noticed a difference in reception. > > Deems > > Les Kearney wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> >> >> As I work my way through canopy hell, I am wondering about the >> placement of my GPS antenna. Is there any reason it cannot be mounted >> on the tail cone, just aft of the canopy. I understand it should be >> mounted as high as possible, but given the canopy is f/g, I was >> wondering if the tail cone would be acceptable. Comments front the >> antenna mavens appreciated. >> >> >> >> Inquiring minds need to know. >> >> >> >> Les >> >> #40643 >> >> * >> >> >> * > > > > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:25 PM PST US From: "Les Kearney" Subject: RE: RV10-List: GPS Antenna Placement Thanks Deems Hmmm. I may go with the tail cone as it will be an easier install for me. Cheers Les -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: July-17-09 9:04 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: GPS Antenna Placement Les, I'm not maven, but my gyro stabilized gimble mounted GPS antenna pylon seems to be working just fine ;-) . Seriously, I have one GPS antenna mounted on the tailcone just aft of the fiberglass cabin cover, and the other on the highpoint of the cabin cover. I haven't noticed a difference in reception. Deems Les Kearney wrote: > > Hi > > > > As I work my way through canopy hell, I am wondering about the > placement of my GPS antenna. Is there any reason it cannot be mounted > on the tail cone, just aft of the canopy. I understand it should be > mounted as high as possible, but given the canopy is f/g, I was > wondering if the tail cone would be acceptable. Comments front the > antenna mavens appreciated. > > > > Inquiring minds need to know. > > > > Les > > #40643 > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:46 PM PST US From: dogsbark@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stewart Systems Primer Sealer Hi Dave, I used Stewart Systems=C2-exclusively during my portion of the build.=C2 - =C2-Wings, Fuse, and Emp.=C2- I thought it was great.=C2- If you see "blotches" it needs thinned.=C2- I think you can thin it up to one th ird water (that's too much).=C2- I found the key was putting on a very th in coat first and letting it setup a little before=C2-the next was applie d.=C2- I would use it again. I used the cheap touch up gun from Harbor Freight and it was perfect for th e task.=C2- Clean up was easy, too. Plenty of pics and some narrative at:=C2- http://websites.expercraft.com/ seanb/ Good luck, Sean=C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Fritzsche (Building)" Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:32:04 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain Subject: RV10-List: Stewart Systems Primer Sealer mo.com> I asked this question a while back and got no response. =C2-I will try again as things may have changed. =C2-Has anyone used Stewart Systems Primer Sealer to prime the inside of their aircraft? =C2-It is water base d making it much safer for the environment and the person spraying it. =C2- It can be seen at www.stewartsystems.aero. =C2-If you have used it, what is your experience? =C2-How does it compare to a two-part epoxy primer? =C2 -I am tempted to try it, but would like some user experience reports prior to jumping into the water. Dave -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Fritzsche 40813 tail cone nearly finished Puyallup, WA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ =========== =========== MS - =========== e - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.