Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:33 AM - Re: Aux Fuel Tanks (William Curtis)
2. 09:10 AM - Oil question (John Cox)
3. 09:15 AM - Re: Aux Fuel Tanks (John Cox)
4. 09:26 AM - Re: Aux fuel tanks (John Cox)
5. 12:54 PM - IFR route to OSH from Southeast (John Testement)
6. 01:44 PM - Re: IFR route to OSH from Southeast (Paul Bowmar)
7. 01:44 PM - Re: IFR route to OSH from Southeast (David McNeill)
8. 01:44 PM - Re: IFR route to OSH from Southeast (Linn Walters)
9. 04:19 PM - Re: IFR route to OSH from Southeast (Tim Lewis)
10. 04:27 PM - Re: OSH (Kelly McMullen)
11. 04:47 PM - Re: IFR route to OSH from Southeast (Dave Leikam)
12. 06:13 PM - Inbound (Dave Saylor)
13. 06:24 PM - Re: Inbound (Bob Turner)
14. 07:15 PM - Re: Re: Inbound (Dave Saylor)
15. 07:20 PM - OSH - Looking to share camping for tent (John Testement)
16. 07:21 PM - Re: IFR route to OSH from Southeast (William Curtis)
17. 07:42 PM - Re: Re: Inbound (William Curtis)
18. 09:12 PM - Re: OSH (Tim Olson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Aux Fuel Tanks |
This opinion, and memory, relies heavily on
truthiness<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness>.
The fact is that any impact sufficient to rupture an in cabin tank is most
likely not survivable by the occupants due to blunt force trauma. Secondly,
impact sufficient to rupture a cabin tank will also have caused more damage
to the wing tanks which is only a few inches from the cabin. Lastly there
are many current certified aircraft (as well as the RV-12) that have
fuselage fuel tanks or STCs for fuselage fuel tanks. There is an STC for
a permanent baggage area fuel tank for the Cardinal RG that I currently
fly. Most commercial airlines have wing center tanks under the cabin.
In a past RVAtor article, Van's (Ken Krueger) has stated if builders must
add additional tanks, they would prefer fuselage based tanks, rather than
additional wing tanks. Your concern regarding a "gasoline shower" is only
valid if you are worried about having an "excellent kadabra."
William Curtis
40237
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:27 AM, Dave Fritzsche (Building) <
fritzsch@eskimo.com> wrote:
> fritzsch@eskimo.com>
>
> If my memory is correct, some of the early aircraft were found to be
> flaming coffins in a crash due to fuel tanks located right behind the pilot
> rupturing. I would be very concerned about putting a fuel tank in the
> baggage compartment for that reason. In a crash you could suddenly find
> yourself in a gasoline shower with the slightest spark turning the cockpit
> into an inferno.
> Dave
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dave Fritzsche
> 40813
> Puyallup, WA
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
Message 2
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Every year at this time, attendees begin looking for cheapest fuel and
cheap oil for their long pilgrimage to/from Aviation Mecca. Some have
mentioned offline about Sky geeks.
Check out www.oil-store.com Cheaper than the geeks and you can get it
in the easier to transport and pour 1 gal jugs. Also delivered right to
your door.
Cheers,
[John C] forwarded from another of my friends.
Message 3
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The RV-12 has just received FAA certification as a Light Sport and
complete kits are now being readied for shipment to those who have
passion for such things. Just a note before shifting entirely into
RV-10 issues for OSH.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Fritzsche (Building)
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 10:27 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Aux Fuel Tanks
<fritzsch@eskimo.com>
If my memory is correct, some of the early aircraft were found to be
flaming coffins in a crash due to fuel tanks located right behind the
pilot rupturing. I would be very concerned about putting a fuel tank in
the baggage compartment for that reason. In a crash you could suddenly
find yourself in a gasoline shower with the slightest spark turning the
cockpit into an inferno.
Dave
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Fritzsche
40813
Puyallup, WA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Message 4
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Stalled high, pancaked hard in California.
CBS did a small piece on Lancair International (KOIN-PDX and yes, I
recorded it) as they roll out the Evolution which did a tail contact
landing attempt with gear inadvertently UP two weeks ago. The byline
was titled "Unsafe at any speed" and unfortunately took the kit
builder's positive effort at a pre OSH promotional and turned it towards
the more than 100 fatalities in make that have been documented.
Proficiency Training is not an will never be Transition Training. That
said, I read that Bill's LSI, RV-10 had a mid flight propulsion problem
and executed a near perfect landing ON FIELD with no airspeed left. As
some so humorously pointed out on the 2 -FAT which was actually a
reference to the two POB "onboard", I think they should be commended for
their airmanship.
Airspeed maintenance until contact with terra firma can result in CFIT
or at the least memorialized FAA embarrassment. Let's all make
compliant landings to and from OSH this next week.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
Edgerton
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:50 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks
I wasn't aware that there were two 10's with gear collapse. I know about
the recent on, which sounds like he stalled it high and pan caked in
hard. What happened on the other one?
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
do not archive
Time:
02:39:41 PM PST US
From:
"Chris and Susie" <vhicy@bigpond.com>
Subject:
Re: Aux fuel tanks
Dick we have just come back from a 42 hour trip in outback
Australia.
Most of the time we were fine with fuel but as another has pointed
out
fuel in some areas can be extremely expensive. An extra hour range
would
be great here. The option of filling further on would be great.
I have spoken to an engineer at Vans regarding making the the
outer bay
of wing also fuel and his response was like other RV's it actually
strengthens the wing however other areas have to be considered
like Max
weight. He would not put anything on paper.
An extra hour would be good but I don't know about an extra 60
gallons
unless you few at gross weight or under but you know what people
would
do!
With two 10's with gear leg collapses We do not want to fly over
gross.
So Yes I would add an extra 1 hour of fuel if I were to build again
for
out back flying.
Chris
Message 5
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| Subject: | IFR route to OSH from Southeast |
I am planning my flight from VA and deciding whether to go West of Chicago
airspace (way out of the way) or fly over the lake. If anyone has experience
or advice on the best route to OSH from the Southeast, your comments would
be welcome.
John Testement
N311RV
Richmond, VA
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:25 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks
Stalled high, pancaked hard in California.
CBS did a small piece on Lancair International (KOIN-PDX and yes, I recorded
it) as they roll out the Evolution which did a tail contact landing attempt
with gear inadvertently UP two weeks ago. The byline was titled "Unsafe at
any speed" and unfortunately took the kit builder's positive effort at a pre
OSH promotional and turned it towards the more than 100 fatalities in make
that have been documented. Proficiency Training is not an will never be
Transition Training. That said, I read that Bill's LSI, RV-10 had a mid
flight propulsion problem and executed a near perfect landing ON FIELD with
no airspeed left. As some so humorously pointed out on the 2 -FAT which was
actually a reference to the two POB "onboard", I think they should be
commended for their airmanship.
Airspeed maintenance until contact with terra firma can result in CFIT or at
the least memorialized FAA embarrassment. Let's all make compliant landings
to and from OSH this next week.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:50 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks
I wasn't aware that there were two 10's with gear collapse. I know about the
recent on, which sounds like he stalled it high and pan caked in hard. What
happened on the other one?
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
do not archive
Time:
02:39:41 PM PST US
From:
"Chris and Susie" <vhicy@bigpond.com>
Subject:
Re: Aux fuel tanks
Dick we have just come back from a 42 hour trip in outback Australia.
Most of the time we were fine with fuel but as another has pointed out
fuel in some areas can be extremely expensive. An extra hour range
would
be great here. The option of filling further on would be great.
I have spoken to an engineer at Vans regarding making the the outer
bay
of wing also fuel and his response was like other RV's it actually
strengthens the wing however other areas have to be considered like
Max
weight. He would not put anything on paper.
An extra hour would be good but I don't know about an extra 60 gallons
unless you few at gross weight or under but you know what people would
do!
With two 10's with gear leg collapses We do not want to fly over
gross.
So Yes I would add an extra 1 hour of fuel if I were to build again for
out back flying.
Chris
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: IFR route to OSH from Southeast |
You might want to check Chicago TFR's depending on your day of flight.
EARLY ARRIVING OSHKOSH-BOUND PILOTS FLYING NEAR CHICAGO TAKE NOTE
Presidential TFR issued for Windy City
President Obama is returning to his hometown, Chicago, Thursday and
Friday and the FAA has issued a temporary flight restriction, which may
require Oshkosh-bound pilots to alter their planned flights. The TFR
will be in effect from 4 p.m. CDT on Thursday, July 23, through 9 p.m.
Friday, July 24. The FAA recommends that all aircraft operators check
NOTAMS frequently for possible changes to this TFR prior to operations
within this region. Pilots are also advised to contact their local
Flight Service Station at 1-800-WX-BRIEF for the latest information. For
more information, click here.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Testement
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 1:52 PM
Subject: RV10-List: IFR route to OSH from Southeast
I am planning my flight from VA and deciding whether to go West of
Chicago airspace (way out of the way) or fly over the lake. If anyone
has experience or advice on the best route to OSH from the Southeast,
your comments would be welcome.
John Testement
N311RV
Richmond, VA
Do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:25 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks
Stalled high, pancaked hard in California.
CBS did a small piece on Lancair International (KOIN-PDX and yes, I
recorded it) as they roll out the Evolution which did a tail contact
landing attempt with gear inadvertently UP two weeks ago. The byline
was titled "Unsafe at any speed" and unfortunately took the kit
builder's positive effort at a pre OSH promotional and turned it towards
the more than 100 fatalities in make that have been documented.
Proficiency Training is not an will never be Transition Training. That
said, I read that Bill's LSI, RV-10 had a mid flight propulsion problem
and executed a near perfect landing ON FIELD with no airspeed left. As
some so humorously pointed out on the 2 -FAT which was actually a
reference to the two POB "onboard", I think they should be commended for
their airmanship.
Airspeed maintenance until contact with terra firma can result in CFIT
or at the least memorialized FAA embarrassment. Let's all make
compliant landings to and from OSH this next week.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
Edgerton
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:50 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks
I wasn't aware that there were two 10's with gear collapse. I know
about the recent on, which sounds like he stalled it high and pan caked
in hard. What happened on the other one?
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
do not archive
Time:
02:39:41 PM PST US
From:
"Chris and Susie" <vhicy@bigpond.com>
Subject:
Re: Aux fuel tanks
Dick we have just come back from a 42 hour trip in outback
Australia.
Most of the time we were fine with fuel but as another has
pointed out
fuel in some areas can be extremely expensive. An extra hour
range would
be great here. The option of filling further on would be great.
I have spoken to an engineer at Vans regarding making the the
outer bay
of wing also fuel and his response was like other RV's it
actually
strengthens the wing however other areas have to be considered
like Max
weight. He would not put anything on paper.
An extra hour would be good but I don't know about an extra 60
gallons
unless you few at gross weight or under but you know what people
would
do!
With two 10's with gear leg collapses We do not want to fly over
gross.
So Yes I would add an extra 1 hour of fuel if I were to build
again for
out back flying.
Chris
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 7
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| Subject: | IFR route to OSH from Southeast |
There is a lake flight following service but for my money I don't like cold
water. I would go to RFD and then North.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Testement
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:53 PM
Subject: RV10-List: IFR route to OSH from Southeast
I am planning my flight from VA and deciding whether to go West of Chicago
airspace (way out of the way) or fly over the lake. If anyone has experience
or advice on the best route to OSH from the Southeast, your comments would
be welcome.
John Testement
N311RV
Richmond, VA
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:25 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks
Stalled high, pancaked hard in California.
CBS did a small piece on Lancair International (KOIN-PDX and yes, I recorded
it) as they roll out the Evolution which did a tail contact landing attempt
with gear inadvertently UP two weeks ago. The byline was titled "Unsafe at
any speed" and unfortunately took the kit builder's positive effort at a pre
OSH promotional and turned it towards the more than 100 fatalities in make
that have been documented. Proficiency Training is not an will never be
Transition Training. That said, I read that Bill's LSI, RV-10 had a mid
flight propulsion problem and executed a near perfect landing ON FIELD with
no airspeed left. As some so humorously pointed out on the 2 -FAT which was
actually a reference to the two POB "onboard", I think they should be
commended for their airmanship.
Airspeed maintenance until contact with terra firma can result in CFIT or at
the least memorialized FAA embarrassment. Let's all make compliant landings
to and from OSH this next week.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:50 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks
I wasn't aware that there were two 10's with gear collapse. I know about the
recent on, which sounds like he stalled it high and pan caked in hard. What
happened on the other one?
Wayne Edgerton N602WT
do not archive
Time:
02:39:41 PM PST US
From:
"Chris and Susie" <vhicy@bigpond.com>
Subject:
Re: Aux fuel tanks
Dick we have just come back from a 42 hour trip in outback Australia.
Most of the time we were fine with fuel but as another has pointed out
fuel in some areas can be extremely expensive. An extra hour range
would
be great here. The option of filling further on would be great.
I have spoken to an engineer at Vans regarding making the the outer
bay
of wing also fuel and his response was like other RV's it actually
strengthens the wing however other areas have to be considered like
Max
weight. He would not put anything on paper.
An extra hour would be good but I don't know about an extra 60 gallons
unless you few at gross weight or under but you know what people would
do!
With two 10's with gear leg collapses We do not want to fly over
gross.
So Yes I would add an extra 1 hour of fuel if I were to build again for
out back flying.
Chris
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: IFR route to OSH from Southeast |
John, I fly out over the lake .... (all three times) ..... but check the
notams ..... Thunderbirds are at Chicago.
Linn
John Testement wrote:
> I am planning my flight from VA and deciding whether to go West of
> Chicago airspace (way out of the way) or fly over the lake. If anyone
> has experience or advice on the best route to OSH from the Southeast,
> your comments would be welcome.
>
>
>
> John Testement
>
> N311RV
>
> Richmond, VA
>
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: IFR route to OSH from Southeast |
I normally do KHEF-KASW (fuel) - JOT - RIPON - KOSH. If you are going
IMC you'll likely get inconvenient routing around Chicago (check the NOTAM).
If you take the over-lake route be sure to pack flotation (accessible
during flight) and if VFR, read up on filing and using lake reporting
service, AIM 4-1-21(e). BTW, they get cranky if you try to file lake
reporting service in the air. Best to do that before flight.
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 1060 hrs
RV-10 N31TD -- Painting and odds and end -- OSH 2010 or bust
John Testement wrote:
>
> I am planning my flight from VA and deciding whether to go West of
> Chicago airspace (way out of the way) or fly over the lake. If anyone
> has experience or advice on the best route to OSH from the Southeast,
> your comments would be welcome.
>
>
>
> John Testement
>
> N311RV
>
> Richmond, VA
>
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *F*
>
> *
> *
Message 10
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Saw a white and red RV-10 taxi in on the OSH365 web cam a few minutes
ago. Kind of neat, although not much traffic right now.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: IFR route to OSH from Southeast |
Thunderbirds are in Milwaukee also.
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA
Muskego, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Linn Walters" <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR route to OSH from Southeast
>
> John, I fly out over the lake .... (all three times) ..... but check the
> notams ..... Thunderbirds are at Chicago.
> Linn
>
> John Testement wrote:
>> I am planning my flight from VA and deciding whether to go West of
>> Chicago airspace (way out of the way) or fly over the lake. If anyone
>> has experience or advice on the best route to OSH from the Southeast,
>> your comments would be welcome.
>>
>>
>>
>> John Testement
>>
>> N311RV
>>
>> Richmond, VA
>>
>>
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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We departed O22 in the Sierra foothills this morning at 0530, made one stop
in Brigham City, UT for gas, and are now overnighting in Aberdeen. We
should be in tomorrow before noon.
1076 miles in 10 hours...cool.
--
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
Message 13
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Dave,
I'd say the numbers are disappointing -- unless you spent a fair amount of time
on the ground at the fuel stop.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254638#254638
Message 14
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Oh yeah, two hour time difference...8 hours...and I was happy with 10!
Dave
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> I'd say the numbers are disappointing -- unless you spent a fair amount of
> time on the ground at the fuel stop.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254638#254638
>
>
--
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
Message 15
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| Subject: | OSH - Looking to share camping for tent |
Hi all OSH bound
I am arriving Thursday in N311Rv and although I have reserved a dorm room I
might want to camp a couple of nights instead. Would anyone be able/willing
to share room on their site for a 2 person tent? Or in anyone vacating a
site on Thursday or Friday? If so email me directly or call 206-369-3432.
John Testement N311RV
Richmond VA
Do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: IFR route to OSH from Southeast |
If IFR, you can file whatever you want but it is probably easier to just put
Direct KOSH in your flight plan because they are going to give you what they
want anyhow. Last time I went in IFR from the East, they had everyone lined
up going PMM MKG FAK KOSH and even had me and 3 other planes in a hold at 30
miles on the 296 radial of the MKG VOR-yes this is over the lake. Three
planes 1,000 feet apart over the lake in a hold. Weather was IMC and they
needed to space traffic. Was uneventful however.
If you go VFR, suggest under the Class B (< 3000 FT.) up the Chicago lake
coast--CGT NILES LAIRD HEDOT RIPON FISKE KOSH. This can get busy,
especially if later in the week as other planes are returning from OSH, but
it also offers a nice view of the Chicago skyline.
William
40237
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Dave Leikam <daveleikam@wi.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Thunderbirds are in Milwaukee also.
>
> Dave Leikam
> RV-10 #40496
> N89DA
> Muskego, WI
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linn Walters" <
> pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:39 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR route to OSH from Southeast
>
>
>>
>> John, I fly out over the lake .... (all three times) ..... but check the
>> notams ..... Thunderbirds are at Chicago.
>> Linn
>>
>> John Testement wrote:
>>
>>> I am planning my flight from VA and deciding whether to go West of
>>> Chicago airspace (way out of the way) or fly over the lake. If anyone has
>>> experience or advice on the best route to OSH from the Southeast, your
>>> comments would be welcome.
>>>
>>>
>>> John Testement
>>>
>>> N311RV
>>>
>>> Richmond, VA
>>>
>>>
Message 17
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Yeah, that's only about 100 Kts. I made it from eastern PA to New Orleans
(~960nm) in my 145kt Cardinal in about 7 hours flying time.
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> I'd say the numbers are disappointing -- unless you spent a fair amount of
> time on the ground at the fuel stop.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254638#254638
>
>
Message 18
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I think that was Scott you probably saw. I landed just before him
and we got in a bout the timeframe you emailed. Already were more
RV-10's than you can count on one hand...we're into the 2nd row,
although the rows are shorter this year.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Saw a white and red RV-10 taxi in on the OSH365 web cam a few minutes
> ago. Kind of neat, although not much traffic right now.
>
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