---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/24/09: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:33 AM - Re: Aux Fuel Tanks (William Curtis) 2. 09:10 AM - Oil question (John Cox) 3. 09:15 AM - Re: Aux Fuel Tanks (John Cox) 4. 09:26 AM - Re: Aux fuel tanks (John Cox) 5. 12:54 PM - IFR route to OSH from Southeast (John Testement) 6. 01:44 PM - Re: IFR route to OSH from Southeast (Paul Bowmar) 7. 01:44 PM - Re: IFR route to OSH from Southeast (David McNeill) 8. 01:44 PM - Re: IFR route to OSH from Southeast (Linn Walters) 9. 04:19 PM - Re: IFR route to OSH from Southeast (Tim Lewis) 10. 04:27 PM - Re: OSH (Kelly McMullen) 11. 04:47 PM - Re: IFR route to OSH from Southeast (Dave Leikam) 12. 06:13 PM - Inbound (Dave Saylor) 13. 06:24 PM - Re: Inbound (Bob Turner) 14. 07:15 PM - Re: Re: Inbound (Dave Saylor) 15. 07:20 PM - OSH - Looking to share camping for tent (John Testement) 16. 07:21 PM - Re: IFR route to OSH from Southeast (William Curtis) 17. 07:42 PM - Re: Re: Inbound (William Curtis) 18. 09:12 PM - Re: OSH (Tim Olson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:33 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aux Fuel Tanks From: William Curtis This opinion, and memory, relies heavily on truthiness. The fact is that any impact sufficient to rupture an in cabin tank is most likely not survivable by the occupants due to blunt force trauma. Secondly, impact sufficient to rupture a cabin tank will also have caused more damage to the wing tanks which is only a few inches from the cabin. Lastly there are many current certified aircraft (as well as the RV-12) that have fuselage fuel tanks or STCs for fuselage fuel tanks. There is an STC for a permanent baggage area fuel tank for the Cardinal RG that I currently fly. Most commercial airlines have wing center tanks under the cabin. In a past RVAtor article, Van's (Ken Krueger) has stated if builders must add additional tanks, they would prefer fuselage based tanks, rather than additional wing tanks. Your concern regarding a "gasoline shower" is only valid if you are worried about having an "excellent kadabra." William Curtis 40237 http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:27 AM, Dave Fritzsche (Building) < fritzsch@eskimo.com> wrote: > fritzsch@eskimo.com> > > If my memory is correct, some of the early aircraft were found to be > flaming coffins in a crash due to fuel tanks located right behind the pilot > rupturing. I would be very concerned about putting a fuel tank in the > baggage compartment for that reason. In a crash you could suddenly find > yourself in a gasoline shower with the slightest spark turning the cockpit > into an inferno. > Dave > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Dave Fritzsche > 40813 > Puyallup, WA > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:07 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Oil question From: "John Cox" Every year at this time, attendees begin looking for cheapest fuel and cheap oil for their long pilgrimage to/from Aviation Mecca. Some have mentioned offline about Sky geeks. Check out www.oil-store.com Cheaper than the geeks and you can get it in the easier to transport and pour 1 gal jugs. Also delivered right to your door. Cheers, [John C] forwarded from another of my friends. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:28 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aux Fuel Tanks From: "John Cox" The RV-12 has just received FAA certification as a Light Sport and complete kits are now being readied for shipment to those who have passion for such things. Just a note before shifting entirely into RV-10 issues for OSH. John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Fritzsche (Building) Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 10:27 PM Subject: RV10-List: Aux Fuel Tanks If my memory is correct, some of the early aircraft were found to be flaming coffins in a crash due to fuel tanks located right behind the pilot rupturing. I would be very concerned about putting a fuel tank in the baggage compartment for that reason. In a crash you could suddenly find yourself in a gasoline shower with the slightest spark turning the cockpit into an inferno. Dave -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Fritzsche 40813 Puyallup, WA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:26:59 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks From: "John Cox" Stalled high, pancaked hard in California. CBS did a small piece on Lancair International (KOIN-PDX and yes, I recorded it) as they roll out the Evolution which did a tail contact landing attempt with gear inadvertently UP two weeks ago. The byline was titled "Unsafe at any speed" and unfortunately took the kit builder's positive effort at a pre OSH promotional and turned it towards the more than 100 fatalities in make that have been documented. Proficiency Training is not an will never be Transition Training. That said, I read that Bill's LSI, RV-10 had a mid flight propulsion problem and executed a near perfect landing ON FIELD with no airspeed left. As some so humorously pointed out on the 2 -FAT which was actually a reference to the two POB "onboard", I think they should be commended for their airmanship. Airspeed maintenance until contact with terra firma can result in CFIT or at the least memorialized FAA embarrassment. Let's all make compliant landings to and from OSH this next week. John From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:50 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks I wasn't aware that there were two 10's with gear collapse. I know about the recent on, which sounds like he stalled it high and pan caked in hard. What happened on the other one? Wayne Edgerton N602WT do not archive Time: 02:39:41 PM PST US From: "Chris and Susie" Subject: Re: Aux fuel tanks Dick we have just come back from a 42 hour trip in outback Australia. Most of the time we were fine with fuel but as another has pointed out fuel in some areas can be extremely expensive. An extra hour range would be great here. The option of filling further on would be great. I have spoken to an engineer at Vans regarding making the the outer bay of wing also fuel and his response was like other RV's it actually strengthens the wing however other areas have to be considered like Max weight. He would not put anything on paper. An extra hour would be good but I don't know about an extra 60 gallons unless you few at gross weight or under but you know what people would do! With two 10's with gear leg collapses We do not want to fly over gross. So Yes I would add an extra 1 hour of fuel if I were to build again for out back flying. Chris ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:03 PM PST US From: "John Testement" Subject: RV10-List: IFR route to OSH from Southeast I am planning my flight from VA and deciding whether to go West of Chicago airspace (way out of the way) or fly over the lake. If anyone has experience or advice on the best route to OSH from the Southeast, your comments would be welcome. John Testement N311RV Richmond, VA Do not archive _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:25 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks Stalled high, pancaked hard in California. CBS did a small piece on Lancair International (KOIN-PDX and yes, I recorded it) as they roll out the Evolution which did a tail contact landing attempt with gear inadvertently UP two weeks ago. The byline was titled "Unsafe at any speed" and unfortunately took the kit builder's positive effort at a pre OSH promotional and turned it towards the more than 100 fatalities in make that have been documented. Proficiency Training is not an will never be Transition Training. That said, I read that Bill's LSI, RV-10 had a mid flight propulsion problem and executed a near perfect landing ON FIELD with no airspeed left. As some so humorously pointed out on the 2 -FAT which was actually a reference to the two POB "onboard", I think they should be commended for their airmanship. Airspeed maintenance until contact with terra firma can result in CFIT or at the least memorialized FAA embarrassment. Let's all make compliant landings to and from OSH this next week. John From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:50 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks I wasn't aware that there were two 10's with gear collapse. I know about the recent on, which sounds like he stalled it high and pan caked in hard. What happened on the other one? Wayne Edgerton N602WT do not archive Time: 02:39:41 PM PST US From: "Chris and Susie" Subject: Re: Aux fuel tanks Dick we have just come back from a 42 hour trip in outback Australia. Most of the time we were fine with fuel but as another has pointed out fuel in some areas can be extremely expensive. An extra hour range would be great here. The option of filling further on would be great. I have spoken to an engineer at Vans regarding making the the outer bay of wing also fuel and his response was like other RV's it actually strengthens the wing however other areas have to be considered like Max weight. He would not put anything on paper. An extra hour would be good but I don't know about an extra 60 gallons unless you few at gross weight or under but you know what people would do! With two 10's with gear leg collapses We do not want to fly over gross. So Yes I would add an extra 1 hour of fuel if I were to build again for out back flying. Chris http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:23 PM PST US From: "Paul Bowmar" Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR route to OSH from Southeast You might want to check Chicago TFR's depending on your day of flight. EARLY ARRIVING OSHKOSH-BOUND PILOTS FLYING NEAR CHICAGO TAKE NOTE Presidential TFR issued for Windy City President Obama is returning to his hometown, Chicago, Thursday and Friday and the FAA has issued a temporary flight restriction, which may require Oshkosh-bound pilots to alter their planned flights. The TFR will be in effect from 4 p.m. CDT on Thursday, July 23, through 9 p.m. Friday, July 24. The FAA recommends that all aircraft operators check NOTAMS frequently for possible changes to this TFR prior to operations within this region. Pilots are also advised to contact their local Flight Service Station at 1-800-WX-BRIEF for the latest information. For more information, click here. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Testement To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 1:52 PM Subject: RV10-List: IFR route to OSH from Southeast I am planning my flight from VA and deciding whether to go West of Chicago airspace (way out of the way) or fly over the lake. If anyone has experience or advice on the best route to OSH from the Southeast, your comments would be welcome. John Testement N311RV Richmond, VA Do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:25 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks Stalled high, pancaked hard in California. CBS did a small piece on Lancair International (KOIN-PDX and yes, I recorded it) as they roll out the Evolution which did a tail contact landing attempt with gear inadvertently UP two weeks ago. The byline was titled "Unsafe at any speed" and unfortunately took the kit builder's positive effort at a pre OSH promotional and turned it towards the more than 100 fatalities in make that have been documented. Proficiency Training is not an will never be Transition Training. That said, I read that Bill's LSI, RV-10 had a mid flight propulsion problem and executed a near perfect landing ON FIELD with no airspeed left. As some so humorously pointed out on the 2 -FAT which was actually a reference to the two POB "onboard", I think they should be commended for their airmanship. Airspeed maintenance until contact with terra firma can result in CFIT or at the least memorialized FAA embarrassment. Let's all make compliant landings to and from OSH this next week. John From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:50 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks I wasn't aware that there were two 10's with gear collapse. I know about the recent on, which sounds like he stalled it high and pan caked in hard. What happened on the other one? Wayne Edgerton N602WT do not archive Time: 02:39:41 PM PST US From: "Chris and Susie" Subject: Re: Aux fuel tanks Dick we have just come back from a 42 hour trip in outback Australia. Most of the time we were fine with fuel but as another has pointed out fuel in some areas can be extremely expensive. An extra hour range would be great here. The option of filling further on would be great. I have spoken to an engineer at Vans regarding making the the outer bay of wing also fuel and his response was like other RV's it actually strengthens the wing however other areas have to be considered like Max weight. He would not put anything on paper. An extra hour would be good but I don't know about an extra 60 gallons unless you few at gross weight or under but you know what people would do! With two 10's with gear leg collapses We do not want to fly over gross. So Yes I would add an extra 1 hour of fuel if I were to build again for out back flying. Chris http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht tp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:23 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR route to OSH from Southeast There is a lake flight following service but for my money I don't like cold water. I would go to RFD and then North. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Testement Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:53 PM Subject: RV10-List: IFR route to OSH from Southeast I am planning my flight from VA and deciding whether to go West of Chicago airspace (way out of the way) or fly over the lake. If anyone has experience or advice on the best route to OSH from the Southeast, your comments would be welcome. John Testement N311RV Richmond, VA Do not archive _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:25 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks Stalled high, pancaked hard in California. CBS did a small piece on Lancair International (KOIN-PDX and yes, I recorded it) as they roll out the Evolution which did a tail contact landing attempt with gear inadvertently UP two weeks ago. The byline was titled "Unsafe at any speed" and unfortunately took the kit builder's positive effort at a pre OSH promotional and turned it towards the more than 100 fatalities in make that have been documented. Proficiency Training is not an will never be Transition Training. That said, I read that Bill's LSI, RV-10 had a mid flight propulsion problem and executed a near perfect landing ON FIELD with no airspeed left. As some so humorously pointed out on the 2 -FAT which was actually a reference to the two POB "onboard", I think they should be commended for their airmanship. Airspeed maintenance until contact with terra firma can result in CFIT or at the least memorialized FAA embarrassment. Let's all make compliant landings to and from OSH this next week. John From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:50 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks I wasn't aware that there were two 10's with gear collapse. I know about the recent on, which sounds like he stalled it high and pan caked in hard. What happened on the other one? Wayne Edgerton N602WT do not archive Time: 02:39:41 PM PST US From: "Chris and Susie" Subject: Re: Aux fuel tanks Dick we have just come back from a 42 hour trip in outback Australia. Most of the time we were fine with fuel but as another has pointed out fuel in some areas can be extremely expensive. An extra hour range would be great here. The option of filling further on would be great. I have spoken to an engineer at Vans regarding making the the outer bay of wing also fuel and his response was like other RV's it actually strengthens the wing however other areas have to be considered like Max weight. He would not put anything on paper. An extra hour would be good but I don't know about an extra 60 gallons unless you few at gross weight or under but you know what people would do! With two 10's with gear leg collapses We do not want to fly over gross. So Yes I would add an extra 1 hour of fuel if I were to build again for out back flying. Chris http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:50 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR route to OSH from Southeast John, I fly out over the lake .... (all three times) ..... but check the notams ..... Thunderbirds are at Chicago. Linn John Testement wrote: > I am planning my flight from VA and deciding whether to go West of > Chicago airspace (way out of the way) or fly over the lake. If anyone > has experience or advice on the best route to OSH from the Southeast, > your comments would be welcome. > > > > John Testement > > N311RV > > Richmond, VA > > > > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:29 PM PST US From: Tim Lewis Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR route to OSH from Southeast I normally do KHEF-KASW (fuel) - JOT - RIPON - KOSH. If you are going IMC you'll likely get inconvenient routing around Chicago (check the NOTAM). If you take the over-lake route be sure to pack flotation (accessible during flight) and if VFR, read up on filing and using lake reporting service, AIM 4-1-21(e). BTW, they get cranky if you try to file lake reporting service in the air. Best to do that before flight. Tim -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 1060 hrs RV-10 N31TD -- Painting and odds and end -- OSH 2010 or bust John Testement wrote: > > I am planning my flight from VA and deciding whether to go West of > Chicago airspace (way out of the way) or fly over the lake. If anyone > has experience or advice on the best route to OSH from the Southeast, > your comments would be welcome. > > > > John Testement > > N311RV > > Richmond, VA > > > > Do not archive > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *F* > > * > * ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH From: Kelly McMullen Saw a white and red RV-10 taxi in on the OSH365 web cam a few minutes ago. Kind of neat, although not much traffic right now. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:43 PM PST US From: "Dave Leikam" Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR route to OSH from Southeast Thunderbirds are in Milwaukee also. Dave Leikam RV-10 #40496 N89DA Muskego, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linn Walters" Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:39 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR route to OSH from Southeast > > John, I fly out over the lake .... (all three times) ..... but check the > notams ..... Thunderbirds are at Chicago. > Linn > > John Testement wrote: >> I am planning my flight from VA and deciding whether to go West of >> Chicago airspace (way out of the way) or fly over the lake. If anyone >> has experience or advice on the best route to OSH from the Southeast, >> your comments would be welcome. >> >> >> >> John Testement >> >> N311RV >> >> Richmond, VA >> >> >> >> Do not archive >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:33 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Inbound From: Dave Saylor We departed O22 in the Sierra foothills this morning at 0530, made one stop in Brigham City, UT for gas, and are now overnighting in Aberdeen. We should be in tomorrow before noon. 1076 miles in 10 hours...cool. -- Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:45 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Inbound From: "Bob Turner" Dave, I'd say the numbers are disappointing -- unless you spent a fair amount of time on the ground at the fuel stop. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254638#254638 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Inbound From: Dave Saylor Oh yeah, two hour time difference...8 hours...and I was happy with 10! Dave On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote: > > Dave, > > I'd say the numbers are disappointing -- unless you spent a fair amount of > time on the ground at the fuel stop. > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254638#254638 > > -- Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:59 PM PST US From: "John Testement" Subject: RV10-List: OSH - Looking to share camping for tent Hi all OSH bound I am arriving Thursday in N311Rv and although I have reserved a dorm room I might want to camp a couple of nights instead. Would anyone be able/willing to share room on their site for a 2 person tent? Or in anyone vacating a site on Thursday or Friday? If so email me directly or call 206-369-3432. John Testement N311RV Richmond VA Do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR route to OSH from Southeast From: William Curtis If IFR, you can file whatever you want but it is probably easier to just put Direct KOSH in your flight plan because they are going to give you what they want anyhow. Last time I went in IFR from the East, they had everyone lined up going PMM MKG FAK KOSH and even had me and 3 other planes in a hold at 30 miles on the 296 radial of the MKG VOR-yes this is over the lake. Three planes 1,000 feet apart over the lake in a hold. Weather was IMC and they needed to space traffic. Was uneventful however. If you go VFR, suggest under the Class B (< 3000 FT.) up the Chicago lake coast--CGT NILES LAIRD HEDOT RIPON FISKE KOSH. This can get busy, especially if later in the week as other planes are returning from OSH, but it also offers a nice view of the Chicago skyline. William 40237 http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Dave Leikam wrote: > > Thunderbirds are in Milwaukee also. > > Dave Leikam > RV-10 #40496 > N89DA > Muskego, WI > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linn Walters" < > pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> > To: > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:39 PM > Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR route to OSH from Southeast > > >> >> John, I fly out over the lake .... (all three times) ..... but check the >> notams ..... Thunderbirds are at Chicago. >> Linn >> >> John Testement wrote: >> >>> I am planning my flight from VA and deciding whether to go West of >>> Chicago airspace (way out of the way) or fly over the lake. If anyone has >>> experience or advice on the best route to OSH from the Southeast, your >>> comments would be welcome. >>> >>> >>> John Testement >>> >>> N311RV >>> >>> Richmond, VA >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:01 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Inbound From: William Curtis Yeah, that's only about 100 Kts. I made it from eastern PA to New Orleans (~960nm) in my 145kt Cardinal in about 7 hours flying time. William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Bob Turner wrote: > > Dave, > > I'd say the numbers are disappointing -- unless you spent a fair amount of > time on the ground at the fuel stop. > > -------- > Bob Turner > RV-10 QB > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254638#254638 > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:25 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH I think that was Scott you probably saw. I landed just before him and we got in a bout the timeframe you emailed. Already were more RV-10's than you can count on one hand...we're into the 2nd row, although the rows are shorter this year. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Saw a white and red RV-10 taxi in on the OSH365 web cam a few minutes > ago. Kind of neat, although not much traffic right now. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.