---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/17/09: 49 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:16 AM - Re: Re: don't buy baffle fasteners (Neal George) 2. 04:44 AM - Re: Re: Oil door hidden hinge (Patrick Thyssen) 3. 04:48 AM - Re: Re: don't buy baffle fasteners (Patrick Thyssen) 4. 05:17 AM - Leaky Matco Brake (AirMike) 5. 05:25 AM - Re: How long to build an RV10 (jkreidler) 6. 05:29 AM - Re: Leaky Matco Brake (Linn Walters) 7. 05:29 AM - Re: Oil door hidden hinge (AirMike) 8. 05:30 AM - Re: Leaky Matco Brake (Kelly McMullen) 9. 05:44 AM - Re: Leaky Matco Brake (David McNeill) 10. 07:02 AM - Departure from controlled flight (Miller John) 11. 07:12 AM - Re: Departure from controlled flight (Rick Sked) 12. 07:20 AM - Static System (Perry, Phil) 13. 07:23 AM - Re: Departure from controlled flight (Miller John) 14. 07:26 AM - Re: Departure from controlled flight (Perry, Phil) 15. 07:30 AM - Re: Static System (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 16. 07:43 AM - Re: Static System (Kelly McMullen) 17. 07:49 AM - Re: Static System (Perry, Phil) 18. 07:50 AM - Re: Static System (Perry, Phil) 19. 08:10 AM - Re: Departure from controlled flight (Deems Davis) 20. 09:01 AM - Re: VA-189 fuel servo inlet hose fitting question (jayb) 21. 09:03 AM - Re: extra air seal fabric? (Jim Berry) 22. 09:36 AM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (Deems Davis) 23. 09:55 AM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (Linn Walters) 24. 10:12 AM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (Rene Felker) 25. 10:17 AM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (jkreidler) 26. 10:24 AM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (Deems Davis) 27. 10:37 AM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (Pascal) 28. 10:39 AM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 29. 10:45 AM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (Linn Walters) 30. 10:46 AM - Re: Departure from controlled flight (jkreidler) 31. 11:14 AM - Re: Departure from controlled flight (Les Kearney) 32. 11:14 AM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (Tim Olson) 33. 12:18 PM - Re: Departure from controlled flight (jkreidler) 34. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: VA-189 fuel servo inlet hose fitting question (William Curtis) 35. 03:42 PM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (McGann, Ron) 36. 04:20 PM - Re: Re: Departure from controlled flight (Richard Gurley) 37. 04:20 PM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (David McNeill) 38. 04:20 PM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (gary) 39. 05:08 PM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (RobHickman@aol.com) 40. 05:21 PM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (Rick Sked) 41. 06:09 PM - Re: Departure from controlled flight (Miller John) 42. 06:21 PM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (Bob Turner) 43. 06:52 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow variations (McGann, Ron) 44. 07:14 PM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (Kelly McMullen) 45. 08:37 PM - Has anyone considered making their own propeller? (Andrew Johnson) 46. 08:52 PM - Cruise figures (Albert Gardner) 47. 09:12 PM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (robhickman@aol.com) 48. 09:52 PM - Re: Has anyone considered making their own propeller? (Deems Davis) 49. 11:22 PM - Re: Fuel Flow variations (Don McDonald) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:20 AM PST US From: "Neal George" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: don't buy baffle fasteners Folks I know who play with horses call these things Chicago screws. Try your local tack shop (or Google) for different lengths. neal -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jayb Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 11:06 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: don't buy baffle fasteners 1/4" length of both screw and collar. The collar threads don't start right at the inner-most part where it's most needed. Very difficult to get the screw to thread onto the collar. Thumbs down from me. Jay pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth. wrote: > I've seen these work with the silicone seal material .... or maybe they > were a longer version! How long is the collar on the one side. > Linn > do not archive > jayb wrote: > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:33 AM PST US From: Patrick Thyssen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Oil door hidden hinge You might want to consider putting a couple of metal strips where the cam l ock locks on the cowling due to the fact it will vibrate and wear away the composite over time.. Just a thought. Patrick Thyssen flying when electrons let me. --- On Sun, 8/16/09, jayb wrote: From: jayb Subject: RV10-List: Re: Oil door hidden hinge Bill, I cut a bit too much off on the inboard side also. It was pretty easy to ju st glass what was needed back on... Not a big deal. I left a lip all the wa y around. The door turned out nice. Be sure to reinforce the latch side cow l lip as there's not a lot of grip area. http://www.brinkmeyers.net/Photos/Aircraft/Engine/images/imag0095.jpg Jay MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com wrote: > Thanks for the pics.- Yes, I thought that's what I would be doing but > I've already cut too big a hole and am planning a slightly larger door > and door opening.- Note to self; cut a small hole then enlarge as more > is learned. > > Nice site and pics.- Thanks! > > vankris wrote: > > >- > > > >- YOU shouldn't need to get into the honeycomb areas of the top cowl t o attach a hidden hinge here is a link to some pictures I hope will help yo u understand the process. http://ivankristensen.phanfare.com/2292606_426812 6#imageID=77306227 > >- This hidden hinge and the door latches are from Non Stop Aviation > > > >- Regards, > > > >- Ivan Kristensen > > > >- #40838 > > > >- FF and wiring > > > > > > > > > >- Read this topic online here: > > > >- http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 57821#257821 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >- - > > > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258131#258131 le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:57 AM PST US From: Patrick Thyssen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: don't buy baffle fasteners -I buy mine from Ram aircraft in waco. Yes they are tough some time to pu t on, but they work fine. Patrick Thyssen A&P --- On Sun, 8/16/09, jayb wrote: From: jayb Subject: RV10-List: Re: don't buy baffle fasteners 1/4" length of both screw and collar. The collar threads don't start right at the inner-most part where it's most needed. Very difficult to get the sc rew to thread onto the collar. Thumbs down from me. Jay pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth. wrote: > I've seen these work with the silicone seal material .... or maybe they > were a longer version!- How long is the collar on the one side. > Linn > do not archive > jayb wrote: > > >- > >- > >- These were a waste of money as the screws are much too short to fit through both baffle and black seal material... Twice as long would have bee n about right. Maybe they're useful elsewhere... > >- > >- http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/bafflefastener.php > >- > >- > >- > >- > >- Read this topic online here: > >- > >- http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 57702#257702 > >- > >- > >- > >- > >- > >- > >- > >- > >- > >- > >- > > > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258127#258127 le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:03 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Leaky Matco Brake From: "AirMike" I had a heck of a time with the Matco Brake last week. It seems that the threads on the brass fitting that comes out of the brake itself have a wierd NPT fitting that does not marry well to the AN fitting. It was still leaking after the second time I sealed it. What a mess with hyro fluid all over the floor of the Pilot side. Finally I took it off and using form-a-gasket #2 assembled it. I cranked the heck out of the AN fitting on the vise and got it really tight. Finally - no more hydro fluid dripping on my face and arms. Advice - crank the AN fitting down really tight -------- OSH '09 or Bust (busted) be there someday Q/B Kit - end game Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258149#258149 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:28 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: How long to build an RV10 From: "jkreidler" We used February 30th... The 29th comes every four years, and we didn't think we could narrow down the date that close. I suppose you could also use April 31st, June 31st, September 31st, or November 31 take your pick. One of the first questions we get from 'outsiders' is "How long did it take?". We stopped tracking hour by hour July 2008, at that time we had in 2300 hours, I think we easily topped 3000 hours, we did use a quick build. This has been said before but anyone wanting to build an airplane to fly will be very disappointed as to how long it takes. You need to enter this sort of project for the joy of the build, and the idea that one day it will be done. Go ahead and prove to all of the veterans, or repeat offenders just how much you don't know about building and give an estimated completion date, or an estimate of how long you have to go. I heard somewhere that Steve R's last RV-10 took him 60 days, not sure if that was QB or not, or how much help he had, but 60 days!! Sure wish he was still around to answer..... Enjoy every minute of the build, the highs and lows, after you are flying you might just start to miss building. But don't take too long, these things are a riot to fly!! Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI Kyle Hokel, Tony Kolar, Wayne Elsner, Jason Kreidler Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258150#258150 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:11 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Leaky Matco Brake Thanks for the heads up. Could the problem be a badly machined part? Linn AirMike wrote: > > I had a heck of a time with the Matco Brake last week. It seems that the threads on the brass fitting that comes out of the brake itself have a wierd NPT fitting that does not marry well to the AN fitting. It was still leaking after the second time I sealed it. What a mess with hyro fluid all over the floor of the Pilot side. Finally I took it off and using form-a-gasket #2 assembled it. I cranked the heck out of the AN fitting on the vise and got it really tight. Finally - no more hydro fluid dripping on my face and arms. > > Advice - crank the AN fitting down really tight > > -------- > OSH '09 or Bust (busted) be there someday > Q/B Kit - end game > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258149#258149 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:11 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Oil door hidden hinge From: "AirMike" Added some extra glass and a Z-bar stiffener and it seems to work well. Should have taken the time for the 100% hidden door, but at least it is flush and do not have the do-hickers sticking up. -------- OSH '09 or Bust (busted) be there someday Q/B Kit - end game Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258152#258152 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pc250015_810.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:24 AM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Leaky Matco Brake Yes, the fitting into the caliper is pipe thread. No you should NOT need excessive tightening on the AN flare fitting. Either the fitting or the flare are likely to have a nick, causing the leak. Anytime a flare fitting needs more than moderate tightening there is a problem. Tighter is not better, and is likely to crack a tube flare. Kelly A&P AirMike wrote: > > I had a heck of a time with the Matco Brake last week. It seems that the threads on the brass fitting that comes out of the brake itself have a wierd NPT fitting that does not marry well to the AN fitting. It was still leaking after the second time I sealed it. What a mess with hyro fluid all over the floor of the Pilot side. Finally I took it off and using form-a-gasket #2 assembled it. I cranked the heck out of the AN fitting on the vise and got it really tight. Finally - no more hydro fluid dripping on my face and arms. > > Advice - crank the AN fitting down really tight > > -------- > OSH '09 or Bust (busted) be there someday > Q/B Kit - end game > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258149#258149 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:23 AM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Leaky Matco Brake When you bleed the brakes, be sure and compress the puck before bleeding from the bottom and if you heat the tube to fit the brake valve nipple be sure and have fluid to the top of the tube before connecting to the nipple. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AirMike Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 5:14 AM Subject: RV10-List: Leaky Matco Brake I had a heck of a time with the Matco Brake last week. It seems that the threads on the brass fitting that comes out of the brake itself have a wierd NPT fitting that does not marry well to the AN fitting. It was still leaking after the second time I sealed it. What a mess with hyro fluid all over the floor of the Pilot side. Finally I took it off and using form-a-gasket #2 assembled it. I cranked the heck out of the AN fitting on the vise and got it really tight. Finally - no more hydro fluid dripping on my face and arms. Advice - crank the AN fitting down really tight -------- OSH '09 or Bust (busted) be there someday Q/B Kit - end game Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258149#258149 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:27 AM PST US From: Miller John Subject: RV10-List: Departure from controlled flight For those who may not have understood the thread on departure from controlled flight a couple weeks back, the link takes you to a 4 min video about a departure in an F-16 at Edwards AFB. http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/exclusivevids/ExclusiveVideo_F16_OutOfControl_YawDeparture_201012-1.html grumpy N184JM do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:56 AM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: Departure from controlled flight Didn't the pilot have override the FCS using the MPO to induce the departure? I haven't looked at the link but I think I've seen it before. It is eye opening, especially pay attention to the increase in respiration as it evolves. Of course the only manual pitch override and flight control system we have is ourselves. Rick S. N246RS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miller John" Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 6:58:36 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RV10-List: Departure from controlled flight For those who may not have understood the thread on departure from controlled flight a couple weeks back, the link takes you to a 4 min video about a departure in an F-16 at Edwards AFB. http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/exclusivevids/ExclusiveVideo_F16_OutOfControl_YawDeparture_201012-1.html grumpy N184JM do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:06 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Static System From: "Perry, Phil" I posted this on VAF earlier in the week, but didn't get much of a response. At OSH, I bought the machined static ports from iflyrv10.com. These require a =BD" hole in the skin for the port to fit in and have a barbed male connector on the back for the =BC" static line to press onto. My plan has been to run =BC" tygon from each static port to a T-connector installed in the top of the tailcone. At that point, I would run forward toward the firewall. The idea was to: 1) Keep an equal length of tubing between the static port and the T. So a slip with a little ram air on one side would balance out with the other. 2) Also to eliminate the possibility of getting water inside the static ports. Then someone suggested that I could be setting myself up for condensation inside the static lines and that I should put the T on the left side and run the right port all the way over - before going forward. Condensation just doesn't sound like a very likely scenario to me. Even if the air was completely saturated and cooled to the dew point, I can't see enough water collecting to cause a blockage. It would take several days of the same scenario to actually fill the tube. Has anyone seen this before? How have you routed your static lines - most importantly why? Phil ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:04 AM PST US From: Miller John Subject: Re: RV10-List: Departure from controlled flight This was an intentional departure to check out new flight control software. Some of our net have never heard of a departure, so this video really explains it well along with video from the ground tracking cameras. grumpy N184JM do not archive On Aug 17, 2009, at 9:12 AM, Rick Sked wrote: > > Didn't the pilot have override the FCS using the MPO to induce the > departure? I haven't looked at the link but I think I've seen it > before. It is eye opening, especially pay attention to the increase > in respiration as it evolves. Of course the only manual pitch > override and flight control system we have is ourselves. > > Rick S. > N246RS > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miller John" > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 6:58:36 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: RV10-List: Departure from controlled flight > > > For those who may not have understood the thread on departure from > controlled flight a couple weeks back, the link takes you to a 4 min > video about a departure in an F-16 at Edwards AFB. > > http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/exclusivevids/ExclusiveVideo_F16_OutOfControl_YawDeparture_201012-1.html > > grumpy > N184JM > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:50 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Departure from controlled flight From: "Perry, Phil" That's scary as #$@!... Great video though.... -----Original Message----- From: Miller John [mailto:gengrumpy@aol.com] Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 8:59 AM Subject: RV10-List: Departure from controlled flight For those who may not have understood the thread on departure from controlled flight a couple weeks back, the link takes you to a 4 min video about a departure in an F-16 at Edwards AFB. http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/exclusivevids/ExclusiveVideo_F16_OutOfCo ntrol_YawDeparture_201012-1.html grumpy N184JM do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:22 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Static System From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" You are describing exactly what I did. FWIW, I think you're talking about the Cleveland static ports. Bob N442PM _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:20 AM Subject: RV10-List: Static System I posted this on VAF earlier in the week, but didn't get much of a response. At OSH, I bought the machined static ports from iflyrv10.com. These require a =BD" hole in the skin for the port to fit in and have a barbed male connector on the back for the =BC" static line to press onto. My plan has been to run =BC" tygon from each static port to a T-connector installed in the top of the tailcone. At that point, I would run forward toward the firewall. The idea was to: 1) Keep an equal length of tubing between the static port and the T. So a slip with a little ram air on one side would balance out with the other. 2) Also to eliminate the possibility of getting water inside the static ports. Then someone suggested that I could be setting myself up for condensation inside the static lines and that I should put the T on the left side and run the right port all the way over - before going forward. Condensation just doesn't sound like a very likely scenario to me. Even if the air was completely saturated and cooled to the dew point, I can't see enough water collecting to cause a blockage. It would take several days of the same scenario to actually fill the tube. Has anyone seen this before? How have you routed your static lines - most importantly why? Phil ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:01 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Static System From: Kelly McMullen Phil, Mooney uses a very similar static setup, which initially was built with right side coming over to left to a tee then forward. They later changed to mounting the tee near the top of the fuselage to avoid water incursion from driving rain affecting both sides. What you are planning makes a lot more sense than losing the advantage of uphill runs to the Tee. Kelly On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Perry, Phil wrote: > I posted this on VAF earlier in the week, but didn=92t get much of a > response. > > > At OSH, I bought the machined static ports from iflyrv10.com. These > require a =BD=94 hole in the skin for the port to fit in and have a barbe d male > connector on the back for the =BC=94 static line to press onto. > > > My plan has been to run =BC=94 tygon from each static port to a T-connect or > installed in the top of the tailcone. At that point, I would run forward > toward the firewall. > > > The idea was to: > > 1) Keep an equal length of tubing between the static port and the T. > So a slip with a little ram air on one side would balance out with the > other. > > 2) Also to eliminate the possibility of getting water inside the > static ports. > > Then someone suggested that I could be setting myself up for condensatio n > inside the static lines and that I should put the T on the left side and run > the right port all the way over ' before going forward. > > > Condensation just doesn=92t sound like a very likely scenario to me. Eve n if > the air was completely saturated and cooled to the dew point, I can=92t s ee > enough water collecting to cause a blockage. It would take several days of > the same scenario to actually fill the tube. > > > Has anyone seen this before? How have you routed your static lines ' m ost > importantly why? > > > Phil > > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:54 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Static System From: "Perry, Phil" Yes. Sorry about that. The Cleveland ports. From: Condrey, Bob (US SSA) [mailto:bob.condrey@baesystems.com] Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Static System You are describing exactly what I did. FWIW, I think you're talking about the Cleveland static ports. Bob N442PM ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:20 AM Subject: RV10-List: Static System I posted this on VAF earlier in the week, but didn't get much of a response. At OSH, I bought the machined static ports from iflyrv10.com. These require a =BD" hole in the skin for the port to fit in and have a barbed male connector on the back for the =BC" static line to press onto. My plan has been to run =BC" tygon from each static port to a T-connector installed in the top of the tailcone. At that point, I would run forward toward the firewall. The idea was to: 1) Keep an equal length of tubing between the static port and the T. So a slip with a little ram air on one side would balance out with the other. 2) Also to eliminate the possibility of getting water inside the static ports. Then someone suggested that I could be setting myself up for condensation inside the static lines and that I should put the T on the left side and run the right port all the way over - before going forward. Condensation just doesn't sound like a very likely scenario to me. Even if the air was completely saturated and cooled to the dew point, I can't see enough water collecting to cause a blockage. It would take several days of the same scenario to actually fill the tube. Has anyone seen this before? How have you routed your static lines - most importantly why? Phil http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:53 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Static System From: "Perry, Phil" Here's the photo. http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SPF50 Phil From: Perry, Phil Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:49 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Static System Yes. Sorry about that. The Cleveland ports. From: Condrey, Bob (US SSA) [mailto:bob.condrey@baesystems.com] Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Static System You are describing exactly what I did. FWIW, I think you're talking about the Cleveland static ports. Bob N442PM ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:20 AM Subject: RV10-List: Static System I posted this on VAF earlier in the week, but didn't get much of a response. At OSH, I bought the machined static ports from iflyrv10.com. These require a =BD" hole in the skin for the port to fit in and have a barbed male connector on the back for the =BC" static line to press onto. My plan has been to run =BC" tygon from each static port to a T-connector installed in the top of the tailcone. At that point, I would run forward toward the firewall. The idea was to: 1) Keep an equal length of tubing between the static port and the T. So a slip with a little ram air on one side would balance out with the other. 2) Also to eliminate the possibility of getting water inside the static ports. Then someone suggested that I could be setting myself up for condensation inside the static lines and that I should put the T on the left side and run the right port all the way over - before going forward. Condensation just doesn't sound like a very likely scenario to me. Even if the air was completely saturated and cooled to the dew point, I can't see enough water collecting to cause a blockage. It would take several days of the same scenario to actually fill the tube. Has anyone seen this before? How have you routed your static lines - most importantly why? Phil http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:18 AM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: Departure from controlled flight Grumpy In regards to the previous threads on this subject, When you tested the 'no-flaps' slip in your RV10 is this what you experienced? Indeed it's scary! I suspect that it likely didn't develop as far as the F16 video demonstrated. As a non-certified-non-qualified test pilot I'd like to take you up on your challenge to test this for myself, but I'm mindful of my lack of experience in 'unusual attitudes' and am leery of attempting for fear of getting myself in over my head. How much of a margin do you/we have before the bird actually departs? Did you experience the 'soft rudder' that Jason experienced? Or were you able to identify the 'approach to departure' before experiencing the soft rudder? Thanks for illuminating this topic. Deems Davis N519PJ http://deemsrv10.com/ Miller John wrote: > > For those who may not have understood the thread on departure from > controlled flight a couple weeks back, the link takes you to a 4 min > video about a departure in an F-16 at Edwards AFB. > > http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/exclusivevids/ExclusiveVideo_F16_OutOfControl_YawDeparture_201012-1.html > > > grumpy > N184JM > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:30 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: VA-189 fuel servo inlet hose fitting question From: "jayb" I spoke to Mahion at Mattituck this morning. Finally, someone who knows their stuff and doesn't speak with forked tongue. The proper 90 degree "swivel" fitting, with proper 37 degree aircraft flare, is available here (a bargain at $5): http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/aeroquipfitting.php The 90 degree aluminum fitting from Summit Racing referenced in a previous post would probably work too (most racing stuff uses aircraft flares). Using plumbing fittings was not recommended as the flare is likely not 37 degrees. Side note: The injector servo requires swapping the stock location of fuel inlet and plug. This can be seen on page FF3-1. The inlet straight out fitting is shown in the proper location just above the mixture. In addition to swapping the plug/inlet, there's a screen and spring inside the servo body that has to be swapped too. The spring side faces the plug. Not a big deal, just good to know it's been done correctly. Side note: make sure there's a letter "G" stamped on the servo plug shown just above the mixture arm. That means that the servo is compliant with the gasket replacement AD. Cheers, Jay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258202#258202 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:59 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: extra air seal fabric? From: "Jim Berry" Jay, I used the silicone baffle material, so have almost all of the Van's stuff left over. I am just down the road from you at KAPA, if you want to stop by to pick it up. No charge. Jim Berry 40482 N15JB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258203#258203 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:29 AM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations Thanks to all for their responses on this topic. What's driving me on this, is that I want to balance my injectors so I can begin to play with LOP, and I'd like to have a more stable measurement when collecting the data for the injectors. Thanks to the link on Matt's bulb. I've got an email into him with some questions. Has anyone had any experience with this? I'm just wondering if this is one of those thing that should work i theory, but..... ? Also someone mentioned a lack of space to install. I've asked Matt for dimensions. If it works this might be the easiest 'fix'. We'll see, Deems Davis N519PJ http://deemsrv10.com/index.html > * > * ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:21 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations I may be wrong here, but I don't think you get any valuable info from fuel flow when trying to match injectors. The data point is EGT ...... which you work towards balancing the readings. What info do you get from fuel flow in this scenario? Linn do not archive Deems Davis wrote: > > Thanks to all for their responses on this topic. > > What's driving me on this, is that I want to balance my injectors so I > can begin to play with LOP, and I'd like to have a more stable > measurement when collecting the data for the injectors. Thanks to the > link on Matt's bulb. I've got an email into him with some questions. Has > anyone had any experience with this? I'm just wondering if this is one > of those thing that should work i theory, but..... ? Also someone > mentioned a lack of space to install. I've asked Matt for dimensions. If > it works this might be the easiest 'fix'. We'll see, > > > Deems Davis N519PJ > http://deemsrv10.com/index.html > >> * >> * > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:59 AM PST US From: "Rene Felker" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations You plot individual cylinder peak against fuel flow. Trying to get them all to peak within .2 gph or better. Because of sensor placement errors and sensor accuracy, the actual EGT does not matter, just at what fuel flow it peaks. Rene' Felker RV-10 N423CF Flying 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:55 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations I may be wrong here, but I don't think you get any valuable info from fuel flow when trying to match injectors. The data point is EGT ...... which you work towards balancing the readings. What info do you get from fuel flow in this scenario? Linn do not archive Deems Davis wrote: > > Thanks to all for their responses on this topic. > > What's driving me on this, is that I want to balance my injectors so I > can begin to play with LOP, and I'd like to have a more stable > measurement when collecting the data for the injectors. Thanks to the > link on Matt's bulb. I've got an email into him with some questions. Has > anyone had any experience with this? I'm just wondering if this is one > of those thing that should work i theory, but..... ? Also someone > mentioned a lack of space to install. I've asked Matt for dimensions. If > it works this might be the easiest 'fix'. We'll see, > > > Deems Davis N519PJ > http://deemsrv10.com/index.html > >> * >> * > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:54 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow variations From: "jkreidler" We have the 'bulb' from Matt installed in the tunnel. Unfortunately it has not eliminated variations with the boost pump turned on and off. There is room for it, no pictures available though, sorry. We are at the very same point you are Deems, in fact we are probably fighting the same battles. I would give strong consideration before increasing the volume of fuel of air any more than absolutely needed in the tunnel. Any increase might invite the fuel to get warmer, and increase the chance of vapor issues. I say this because the tunnel is fairly warm, and with fuel boiling at ~125 degrees F, you can see the tunnel heat may be enough to create vapor already in the tunnel, long before it gets on top of the engine. Juts my 2 cents.... What is your spread while trying to lean? While performing the 'lean' test we nearly shut down the engine, not comfortable at all. Next step is to swap out the high and low injectors to see if we can get closer, or at least consistent. I do know the engine starts to run rough below 13.4 GPH at 65%, we need to do better than that! Jason Kreidler Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258217#258217 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:05 AM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations Linn As I understand the purpose of balancing injectors is to match fuel flow to EGTs. so that each cylinder is ba;anced at close to the same temps and fuel flows. Attached is the document I received from D. Rivera @ airflow performance regarding his recommended process for balancing injectors. It required both EGT and GPH data. Deems Davis N519PJ http://deemsrv10.com/index.html Linn Walters wrote: > > I may be wrong here, but I don't think you get any valuable info from > fuel flow when trying to match injectors. The data point is EGT > ...... which you work towards balancing the readings. > What info do you get from fuel flow in this scenario? > Linn ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:24 AM PST US From: "Pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations The space issue is me Deems- getting the tube from the pump to the sensor is about 5-6 inches but the adaptors take a good 1 inch from that so if I needed to put a "t" in there for the bulb I would have no space for all the adaptors and such to work- it would be very difficult anyway. Certainly not worth that effort. If I needed to do it, which I wont, I would simply move the whole sensor to the front per the numerous feedback to that effectiveness. Pascal -------------------------------------------------- From: "Deems Davis" Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:32 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations > > Thanks to all for their responses on this topic. > > What's driving me on this, is that I want to balance my injectors so I can > begin to play with LOP, and I'd like to have a more stable measurement > when collecting the data for the injectors. Thanks to the link on Matt's > bulb. I've got an email into him with some questions. Has anyone had any > experience with this? I'm just wondering if this is one of those thing > that should work i theory, but..... ? Also someone mentioned a lack of > space to install. I've asked Matt for dimensions. If it works this might > be the easiest 'fix'. We'll see, > > > Deems Davis N519PJ > http://deemsrv10.com/index.html > >> * >> * > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:26 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" More info on the subject - here's the GAMI lean test. http://www.gami.com/gamijectors/leantest.php Bob N442PM -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 12:21 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations Linn As I understand the purpose of balancing injectors is to match fuel flow to EGTs. so that each cylinder is ba;anced at close to the same temps and fuel flows. Attached is the document I received from D. Rivera @ airflow performance regarding his recommended process for balancing injectors. It required both EGT and GPH data. Deems Davis N519PJ http://deemsrv10.com/index.html Linn Walters wrote: > > I may be wrong here, but I don't think you get any valuable info from > fuel flow when trying to match injectors. The data point is EGT > ...... which you work towards balancing the readings. > What info do you get from fuel flow in this scenario? > Linn ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:08 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations OK, I understand ..... the delta fuel flow rate gives Airflow Performance an idea of how much to change the injector size. They can also do that with just the EGT spread, but I guess that would be the second best way. When I get to that point, I'll be going down the same road ..... but I need to know where to move the sensor to while it's relatively accessible! Linn do not archive Deems Davis wrote: > Linn As I understand the purpose of balancing injectors is to match fuel > flow to EGTs. so that each cylinder is ba;anced at close to the same > temps and fuel flows. Attached is the document I received from D. Rivera > @ airflow performance regarding his recommended process for balancing > injectors. It required both EGT and GPH data. > > Deems Davis N519PJ > http://deemsrv10.com/index.html > > Linn Walters wrote: >> >> I may be wrong here, but I don't think you get any valuable info from >> fuel flow when trying to match injectors. The data point is EGT >> ...... which you work towards balancing the readings. >> What info do you get from fuel flow in this scenario? >> Linn ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:43 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Departure from controlled flight From: "jkreidler" Wow.... Grumpy, thanks for explaining what I had experienced, I sure am glad it didn't develop to the extent of this video. I don't do well with things that happen that I don't understand, I kinda gota know. 2+2=4 why? Anyway, thanks again for the help, sure is neat to have the sort of experience you have to draw on and ask questions. Jason Kreidler N44YH - Flying 4 Partner Build Wayne Elsner, Kyle Hokel, Tony Kolar, Jason Kreidler Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258225#258225 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:57 AM PST US From: "Les Kearney" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Departure from controlled flight Hi I missed the forward slip thread but went back to read it. Not being an aerodynamic expert, I do have a few questions especially as I relate this to my experience with a Cherokee which I do slip. The Cherokee has always seemed docile in a slip but then again I have never tried it nose high. Is the -10 forward slip issue related to slipping the -10 with a nose high attitude thus causing one of the wings to stall suddenly? Is the end result of the departure (what an understated term!) always spin? In my youth, I learned to spin Cherokees (in utility category). It was something I like to do. Now the thought of a full spin is somewhat less attractive. In any event, does transition training in -10s include recovery from full spins? Cheers Les #40643 PS: The Falcon video was very interesting. When I get my -10 finished and flying subsonic at 30k, I will be sure to try that. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: August-17-09 9:10 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Departure from controlled flight Grumpy In regards to the previous threads on this subject, When you tested the 'no-flaps' slip in your RV10 is this what you experienced? Indeed it's scary! I suspect that it likely didn't develop as far as the F16 video demonstrated. As a non-certified-non-qualified test pilot I'd like to take you up on your challenge to test this for myself, but I'm mindful of my lack of experience in 'unusual attitudes' and am leery of attempting for fear of getting myself in over my head. How much of a margin do you/we have before the bird actually departs? Did you experience the 'soft rudder' that Jason experienced? Or were you able to identify the 'approach to departure' before experiencing the soft rudder? Thanks for illuminating this topic. Deems Davis N519PJ http://deemsrv10.com/ Miller John wrote: > > For those who may not have understood the thread on departure from > controlled flight a couple weeks back, the link takes you to a 4 min > video about a departure in an F-16 at Edwards AFB. > > http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/exclusivevids/ExclusiveVideo_F16_OutOfContro l_YawDeparture_201012-1.html > > > grumpy > N184JM > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:58 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations You need to know how far apart in flow the injectors are when you peak each one. I'M about ready to put out a blurb on that one after I'm back from vacation. Tim On Aug 17, 2009, at 9:55 AM, Linn Walters wrote: > > > > I may be wrong here, but I don't think you get any valuable info > from fuel flow when trying to match injectors. The data point is > EGT ...... which you work towards balancing the readings. > What info do you get from fuel flow in this scenario? > Linn > do not archive > > Deems Davis wrote: >> Thanks to all for their responses on this topic. >> What's driving me on this, is that I want to balance my injectors >> so I can begin to play with LOP, and I'd like to have a more stable >> measurement when collecting the data for the injectors. Thanks to >> the link on Matt's bulb. I've got an email into him with some >> questions. Has anyone had any experience with this? I'm just >> wondering if this is one of those thing that should work i theory, >> but..... ? Also someone mentioned a lack of space to install. I've >> asked Matt for dimensions. If it works this might be the easiest >> 'fix'. We'll see, >> Deems Davis N519PJ >> http://deemsrv10.com/index.html >>> * >>> * > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:24 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Departure from controlled flight From: "jkreidler" I would not describe the attitude of the -10 nose high when this happened to me. I had the nose pointed down, albeit not too far, it was pointed down to maintain an 85 knot airspeed. The lesson going forward is to not slip without flaps, the sub lesson is to keep the speed up when slipping (if necessary to slip without flaps), this will naturally point the nose further down. It did not feel anything like the entry of a spin, entering a spin usually causes the airplane to roll, this was just an abrupt yaw. The airplane remained relatively flat, maybe a 10 degree wing drop. Spin training was not part of the transition training, neither were slips without flaps. Thanks, Jason Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258241#258241 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:13 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: VA-189 fuel servo inlet hose fitting question From: William Curtis An Plumbing, as the name implies, sells primarily aircraft (AN-37 degree) fittings. Looks about the same price as Spruce but Spruce is probably more convienent for most. Regarding the "G" on the fuel survo. If your servo serial number is NOT on the SB list, you will NOT have or need a "G" stamp as only units on the serial number list are subject to the SB. My Silberhawk unit was not on the serial number listing. William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:59 AM, jayb wrote: > > I spoke to Mahion at Mattituck this morning. Finally, someone who knows > their stuff and doesn't speak with forked tongue. > > The proper 90 degree "swivel" fitting, with proper 37 degree aircraft > flare, is available here (a bargain at $5): > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/aeroquipfitting.php > > The 90 degree aluminum fitting from Summit Racing referenced in a previous > post would probably work too (most racing stuff uses aircraft flares). Using > plumbing fittings was not recommended as the flare is likely not 37 degrees. > > Side note: The injector servo requires swapping the stock location of fuel > inlet and plug. This can be seen on page FF3-1. The inlet straight out > fitting is shown in the proper location just above the mixture. In addition > to swapping the plug/inlet, there's a screen and spring inside the servo > body that has to be swapped too. The spring side faces the plug. Not a big > deal, just good to know it's been done correctly. > > Side note: make sure there's a letter "G" stamped on the servo plug shown > just above the mixture arm. That means that the servo is compliant with the > gasket replacement AD. > > Cheers, > Jay > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:32 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations From: "McGann, Ron" Watching this thread with GREAT interest. I have consistently higher CHT on Cylinder #2 compared to the rest (when running rich), with consequentially greater EGT. I have trimmed the fwd air dam, but it makes little difference. Once running lean of peak, CHT #2 is lower than the rest. Suggests to me that I have a restriction in either the line or nozzle to the #2 cylinder. I am a philistine in all things related to the engine. How do you go about adjusting or changing the nozzles? Is this something an engine shop should be looking at?? Cheers Ron VH-XRM -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Tuesday, 18 August 2009 3:21 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations Linn As I understand the purpose of balancing injectors is to match fuel flow to EGTs. so that each cylinder is ba;anced at close to the same temps and fuel flows. Attached is the document I received from D. Rivera @ airflow performance regarding his recommended process for balancing injectors. It required both EGT and GPH data. Deems Davis N519PJ http://deemsrv10.com/index.html Linn Walters wrote: > > I may be wrong here, but I don't think you get any valuable info from > fuel flow when trying to match injectors. The data point is EGT > ...... which you work towards balancing the readings. > What info do you get from fuel flow in this scenario? > Linn DISCLAIMER:--------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and previous e-mail messages attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain proprietary or copyright material or information that is subject to legal professional privilege. They are for the use of the intended recipient only. Any unauthorised viewing, use, disclosure, copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance on, this message is strictly prohibited. No part may be reproduced, adapted or transmitted without the written permission of the owner. If you have received this transmission in error, or are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify the sender by return email, delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system, and destroy any printed copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient should not be deemed a waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does not warrant or represent that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail messages attached are error or virus free. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:54 PM PST US From: "Richard Gurley" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Departure from controlled flight This makes me want to install speed brakes in the wings so I do not have to slip. Dick -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jkreidler Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 3:17 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Departure from controlled flight I would not describe the attitude of the -10 nose high when this happened to me. I had the nose pointed down, albeit not too far, it was pointed down to maintain an 85 knot airspeed. The lesson going forward is to not slip without flaps, the sub lesson is to keep the speed up when slipping (if necessary to slip without flaps), this will naturally point the nose further down. It did not feel anything like the entry of a spin, entering a spin usually causes the airplane to roll, this was just an abrupt yaw. The airplane remained relatively flat, maybe a 10 degree wing drop. Spin training was not part of the transition training, neither were slips without flaps. Thanks, Jason Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258241#258241 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:57 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations I called Lycon to confirm my expectations of normal. I asked what should we expect for EGT range and CHT range for any given power setting. Assuming relatively new manufactured engine with new cylinders (not overhauled , welded, oversized, etc) one can expect the EGT range of 75 F and the CHT range should be 50 F. Each change of MP will may cause a different cylinder to have the peak temperature. Cylinders manufactured prior to say 2000 will probably repaired and the repairs will change the temperature and pressure characteristics. The implication of this is that if your EGTs or CHTs for a given stabilzed power setting fall outside of these norms then , perhaps, additional investigation is warranted, if not you may be chasing problems that don't exist. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGann, Ron Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 3:33 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations --> Watching this thread with GREAT interest. I have consistently higher CHT on Cylinder #2 compared to the rest (when running rich), with consequentially greater EGT. I have trimmed the fwd air dam, but it makes little difference. Once running lean of peak, CHT #2 is lower than the rest. Suggests to me that I have a restriction in either the line or nozzle to the #2 cylinder. I am a philistine in all things related to the engine. How do you go about adjusting or changing the nozzles? Is this something an engine shop should be looking at?? Cheers Ron VH-XRM -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Tuesday, 18 August 2009 3:21 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations Linn As I understand the purpose of balancing injectors is to match fuel flow to EGTs. so that each cylinder is ba;anced at close to the same temps and fuel flows. Attached is the document I received from D. Rivera @ airflow performance regarding his recommended process for balancing injectors. It required both EGT and GPH data. Deems Davis N519PJ http://deemsrv10.com/index.html Linn Walters wrote: > > I may be wrong here, but I don't think you get any valuable info from > fuel flow when trying to match injectors. The data point is EGT > ...... which you work towards balancing the readings. > What info do you get from fuel flow in this scenario? > Linn DISCLAIMER:----------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and previous e-mail messages attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain proprietary or copyright material or information that is subject to legal professional privilege. They are for the use of the intended recipient only. Any unauthorised viewing, use, disclosure, copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance on, this message is strictly prohibited. No part may be reproduced, adapted or transmitted without the written permission of the owner. If you have received this transmission in error, or are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify the sender by return email, delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system, and destroy any printed copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient should not be deemed a waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does not warrant or represent that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail messages attached are error or virus free. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:57 PM PST US From: "gary" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations It is very easy to get a little crud in the injector nozzles. Disconnect the fuel line from #2 injector and turn on the fuel pump with the throttle partly in to flush out the line. Remove the injector from the cylinder and carefully disassemble the unit to clean it with and air line. It is very difficult to actually see the crud in an injector, but after cleaning they work much better. Gary Specketer -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGann, Ron Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 5:33 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations Watching this thread with GREAT interest. I have consistently higher CHT on Cylinder #2 compared to the rest (when running rich), with consequentially greater EGT. I have trimmed the fwd air dam, but it makes little difference. Once running lean of peak, CHT #2 is lower than the rest. Suggests to me that I have a restriction in either the line or nozzle to the #2 cylinder. I am a philistine in all things related to the engine. How do you go about adjusting or changing the nozzles? Is this something an engine shop should be looking at?? Cheers Ron VH-XRM -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Tuesday, 18 August 2009 3:21 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations Linn As I understand the purpose of balancing injectors is to match fuel flow to EGTs. so that each cylinder is ba;anced at close to the same temps and fuel flows. Attached is the document I received from D. Rivera @ airflow performance regarding his recommended process for balancing injectors. It required both EGT and GPH data. Deems Davis N519PJ http://deemsrv10.com/index.html Linn Walters wrote: > > I may be wrong here, but I don't think you get any valuable info from > fuel flow when trying to match injectors. The data point is EGT > ...... which you work towards balancing the readings. > What info do you get from fuel flow in this scenario? > Linn DISCLAIMER:----------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and previous e-mail messages attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain proprietary or copyright material or information that is subject to legal professional privilege. They are for the use of the intended recipient only. Any unauthorised viewing, use, disclosure, copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance on, this message is strictly prohibited. No part may be reproduced, adapted or transmitted without the written permission of the owner. If you have received this transmission in error, or are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify the sender by return email, delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system, and destroy any printed copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient should not be deemed a waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does not warrant or represent that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail messages attached are error or virus free. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:38 PM PST US From: RobHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations In both my RV-4 and RV-10 I ended up moving the flow transducer to the line between the Fuel Servo and distribution block on the top of the engine. This location has completely eliminated any difference in displayed fuel flow when the boost pump is on or off. This is also the location that most certified aircraft have you install the transducer. You want all the cylinders to peak at exactly the same fuel flow. Rob Hickman N402RH RV-10 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:34 PM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations Mine is in the stock location and for whatever reason it's constant and ste ady....Rob I meant to ask you, I love your paint scheme....Did you get that from the US postal service??=C2- :) Rick Sked N246RS do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: RobHickman@aol.com Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 5:07:59 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations In both my RV-4 and RV-10 I ended up moving the flow transducer to the line between the Fuel Servo and distribution block on the top of the engine.=C2 - This location has completely eliminated any difference in displayed fue l flow=C2-when the boost pump is on or off.=C2- This is also the locati on that most certified aircraft have you install the transducer. You=C2-want all the cylinders to peak at exactly the same fuel flow.=C2 -=C2- Rob Hickman N402RH=C2-=C2- RV-10 == ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:29 PM PST US From: Miller John Subject: Re: RV10-List: Departure from controlled flight Deems, I did not attempt to depart the RV 10, nor do I intend to depart it. The RV is fairly sensitive to a departure or snap roll on you if you attempt to slip it with nose level or high and with no flaps. The ugly snap into departure or spin happens if you have one aileron up coupled with stall of one wing first combined with opposite rudder. What happens in level flight or nose high is the rudder loses any ability to maintain directional control because it is blanked out by the fuselage. What I encourage all pilots to do is to get to know their aircraft through the seat of their pants, whether or not it is an RV, a Cessna or an F-15. You need to understand what the airplane is telling you through your senses, regardless of what some indicator may be showing you. The way to do this is to do simple traffic pattern stalls and carry them to a light buffet. To break the approaching stall, merely release some back pressure and, if necessary, add some power. I suggest that you practice these 3-4,000' AGL. First in the flaps down configuration, then with no-flaps. Do a straight ahead approach into the light buffet first, then do them turning both left and right with the nose level to slightly low. Just remember to NOT cross control aileron and rudder. By doing these, first off you'll really see how honest and forgiving the RV is.....it's as honest or more so than my old 182. As you do these, make sure you take note of what you feel both in the stick and rudder, and through the seat of your pants. Once you develop these physical cues, you'll be a much safer pilot in the traffic pattern the day you get in too close and high and try to salvage a botched pattern. Since you are doing these at altitude, if you happen to go past the buffet and the airplane does something you didn't expect (like fall off on a wing), simply release the stick totally and take your feet off the rudder pedals. The RV is so honest it will recover itself without you, but it will be nose low, not a big deal unless of course you happen to be in the final turn..... grumpy N184JM On Aug 17, 2009, at 10:09 AM, Deems Davis wrote: > > Grumpy > > In regards to the previous threads on this subject, When you tested > the 'no-flaps' slip in your RV10 is this what you experienced? > Indeed it's scary! I suspect that it likely didn't develop as far as > the F16 video demonstrated. As a non-certified-non-qualified test > pilot I'd like to take you up on your challenge to test this for > myself, but I'm mindful of my lack of experience in 'unusual > attitudes' and am leery of attempting for fear of getting myself in > over my head. How much of a margin do you/we have before the bird > actually departs? Did you experience the 'soft rudder' that Jason > experienced? Or were you able to identify the 'approach to > departure' before experiencing the soft rudder? > > Thanks for illuminating this topic. > > Deems Davis N519PJ > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > Miller John wrote: >> >> For those who may not have understood the thread on departure from >> controlled flight a couple weeks back, the link takes you to a 4 >> min video about a departure in an F-16 at Edwards AFB. >> >> http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/exclusivevids/ExclusiveVideo_F16_OutOfControl_YawDeparture_201012-1.html >> >> grumpy >> N184JM >> >> do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:45 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow variations From: "Bob Turner" Ron, Have you tried the coke bottle test? Pull the injectors off the cylinders, direct their output to individual bottles. Turn on the boost pump, fill the bottles half full or so. If #2's bottle is not up to the same level as the others, there's a restriction somewhere. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258326#258326 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:15 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow variations From: "McGann, Ron" Awesome - thanks for the responses! Thanks for this one Bob - I'll give it a try on the weekend! Cheers, Ron VH-XRM in Oz Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner Sent: Tuesday, 18 August 2009 11:21 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow variations Ron, Have you tried the coke bottle test? Pull the injectors off the cylinders, direct their output to individual bottles. Turn on the boost pump, fill the bottles half full or so. If #2's bottle is not up to the same level as the others, there's a restriction somewhere. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258326#258326 DISCLAIMER:--------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and previous e-mail messages attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain proprietary or copyright material or information that is subject to legal professional privilege. They are for the use of the intended recipient only. Any unauthorised viewing, use, disclosure, copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance on, this message is strictly prohibited. No part may be reproduced, adapted or transmitted without the written permission of the owner. If you have received this transmission in error, or are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify the sender by return email, delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system, and destroy any printed copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient should not be deemed a waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does not warrant or represent that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail messages attached are error or virus free. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations From: Kelly McMullen I hear that some guy named Cox kind of messed with it. Lucky it doesn't have Horizon painted on the side. On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Rick Sked wrote: > Mine is in the stock location and for whatever reason it's constant and > steady....Rob I meant to ask you, I love your paint scheme....Did you get > that from the US postal service?? :) > > > Rick Sked > > N246RS > > do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: RobHickman@aol.com > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 5:07:59 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations > > In both my RV-4 and RV-10 I ended up moving the flow transducer to the line > between the Fuel Servo and distribution block on the top of the engine. > This location has completely eliminated any difference in displayed fuel > flow when the boost pump is on or off. This is also the location that most > certified aircraft have you install the transducer. > > You want all the cylinders to peak at exactly the same fuel flow. > > Rob Hickman > N402RH RV-10 > > ------------------------------ > > * > > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:33 PM PST US From: "Andrew Johnson" Subject: RV10-List: Has anyone considered making their own propeller? After seeing some other folks do it, and having done it with model airplanes, I'm considering attempting it. Has anyone else considered doing it? My two major concerns would be the harmonics and the potential for asymmetric thrust (one blade pulls more than another), but I've read plenty of accounts of folks making their own with great success. Thoughts? Andy ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:24 PM PST US From: "Albert Gardner" Subject: RV10-List: Cruise figures I was talking to Ed Hayden about cruise performance for IO-540 engines with 10:1 pistons. I told him I would post some figures I recorded on a recent trip from Yuma to Albany, OR, Nampa, ID, SLC, UT, and home. 56f oat 10,500' 132ias 161tas 11.3gph 20.5" wot 2320rpm cht 411 403 353 357 393 385 egt 1372 1316 1335 1280 1365 1354 47f oat 12,500' 128ias 161tas 11.6gph 19.3" wot 2320rpm cht 399 389 340 347 387 374 egt 1289 1233 1242 1194 1267 1262 59f oat 10,500' 134ias 162tas 11.6gph 20.8" wot 2300rpm cht 405 400 340 353 390 381 egt 1337 1276 1303 1244 1317 1316 Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ N991RV N199RD parked beside me at Nampa, beautiful airplane! ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:14 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations From: robhickman@aol.com We are still trying to figure out where the painter came up with the schem e, =C2- he does drink a lot of Coors Light. =C2-We will have to see if the mountains show up when it gets cold. Rob Hickman N402RH =C2-RV-10 -----Original Message----- From: Rick Sked Sent: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 5:20 pm Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations Mine is in the stock location and for whatever reason it's constant and st eady....Rob I meant to ask you, I love your paint scheme....Did you get th at from the US postal service??=C2- :) =C2- Rick Sked N246RS do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: RobHickman@aol.com Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 5:07:59 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations In both my RV-4 and RV-10 I ended up moving the flow transducer to the lin e between the Fuel Servo and distribution block on the top of the engine. =C2- This location has completely eliminated any difference in displayed fuel flow=C2-when the boost pump is on or off.=C2- This is also the location that most certified aircraft have you install the transducer. =C2- You=C2-want all the cylinders to peak at exactly the same fuel flow.=C2 -=C2- =C2- Rob Hickman N402RH=C2-=C2- RV-10 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3 D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:15 PM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: Has anyone considered making their own propeller? I've not heard of anyone trying it on an RV10. I suspect it's because most folks opt to install a constant speed prop in order to extract the most performance. I'm only aware of one -10 that was/is equipped with a fixed pitch prop, and every time I see/hear of it; its for sale. Deems Davis N519PJ http://deemsrv10.com/index.html Andrew Johnson wrote: > After seeing some other folks do it, and having done it with model > airplanes, I'm considering attempting it. Has anyone else considered > doing it? > > My two major concerns would be the harmonics and the potential for > asymmetric thrust (one blade pulls more than another), but I've read > plenty of accounts of folks making their own with great success. > > Thoughts? > > Andy ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:45 PM PST US From: Don McDonald Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations Apparently I missed this one,,,, where's a pic of Rob's 10..... Rob if you' re tuned in,,,, are you going to be in Independence next week for the flyin ?- We're going to try and make it. Don --- On Mon, 8/17/09, robhickman@aol.com wrote: From: robhickman@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations We are still trying to figure out where the painter came up with the scheme , - he does drink a lot of Coors Light. -We will have to see if the mou ntains show up when it gets cold. Rob Hickman N402RH -RV-10 -----Original Message----- From: Rick Sked Sent: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 5:20 pm Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations Mine is in the stock location and for whatever reason it's constant and ste ady....Rob I meant to ask you, I love your paint scheme....Did you get that from the US postal service??- :) - Rick Sked N246RS do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: RobHickman@aol.com Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 5:07:59 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Flow variations In both my RV-4 and RV-10 I ended up moving the flow transducer to the line between the Fuel Servo and distribution block on the top of the engine.- This location has completely eliminated any difference in displayed fuel f low-when the boost pump is on or off.- This is also the location that m ost ce rtified aircraft have you install the transducer. - You-want all the cylinders to peak at exactly the same fuel flow.-- - Rob Hickman N402RH-- RV-10 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D 0Web Forums! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D =0A=0A=0A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.