---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/22/09: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:38 AM - Wanted SL-30 (Chris and Susie) 2. 06:25 AM - Re: Wanted SL-30 (David McNeill) 3. 02:25 PM - Re: Wanted SL-30 (Chris and Susie) 4. 03:36 PM - QB wing bag table of contents (woxofswa) 5. 03:52 PM - Re: QB wing bag table of contents (dogsbark@comcast.net) 6. 04:03 PM - Re: QB wing bag table of contents (woxofswa) 7. 04:03 PM - Re: QB wing bag table of contents (woxofswa) 8. 04:04 PM - Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? (Chris Colohan) 9. 04:48 PM - Re: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? (Rene) 10. 05:52 PM - Re: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? (pilotdds@aol.com) 11. 06:11 PM - Re: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? (David McNeill) 12. 06:57 PM - Re: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? (Bob Turner) 13. 07:01 PM - Re: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? (Dave Saylor) 14. 08:18 PM - LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning (Tim Olson) 15. 08:18 PM - LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning (Tim Olson) 16. 08:37 PM - IO-540 online manual - Lew (Lew Gallagher) 17. 08:54 PM - LOP (David McNeill) 18. 09:58 PM - Re: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning (richard sipp) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:55 AM PST US From: "Chris and Susie" Subject: RV10-List: Wanted SL-30 Guys i am after a SL-30 for the 10 and wish to sell a SL-40 in perfect working order with AD done. Need the SL-30 to make the 10 NVFR Also need a VOR indicator and antenna if anyone has these for sale Please email direct and not to the list regards chris vhmum@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:08 AM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wanted SL-30 If you already have an EFIS it is possible to display CDI info on the EFIS screen. I am doing this with both GRT Sport and Chelton screens. It is possible on Dynon and and AFS and possibly others. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:37 AM Subject: RV10-List: Wanted SL-30 Guys i am after a SL-30 for the 10 and wish to sell a SL-40 in perfect working order with AD done. Need the SL-30 to make the 10 NVFR Also need a VOR indicator and antenna if anyone has these for sale Please email direct and not to the list regards chris vhmum@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:25:54 PM PST US From: "Chris and Susie" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wanted SL-30 Thanks David yes and we might go this way Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "David McNeill" Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 10:54 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wanted SL-30 > > If you already have an EFIS it is possible to display CDI info on the > EFIS > screen. I am doing this with both GRT Sport and Chelton screens. It is > possible on Dynon and and AFS and possibly others. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Susie > Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:37 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Wanted SL-30 > > > Guys i am after a SL-30 for the 10 and wish to sell a SL-40 in perfect > working order with AD done. > > Need the SL-30 to make the 10 NVFR > > Also need a VOR indicator and antenna if anyone has these for sale > > Please email direct and not to the list > > regards chris vhmum@bigpond.com > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:41 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: QB wing bag table of contents From: "woxofswa" Anyone have a link to a copy of the table of bag contents for the QB wing kit. Please be so kind as to post a link, email, or fax. It would be much appreciated Myron woxof@aol.com fax 480 834 9825 -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259115#259115 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:13 PM PST US From: dogsbark@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB wing bag table of contents Myron, This may be what you need from Tim Olsen's site:=C2- http://www.myrv10.co m/files/kitparts/WingKitHardwareBags.pdf If not, it should get you in the correct neighborhood on his site. Sean Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "woxofswa" Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 4:36:01 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain Subject: RV10-List: QB wing bag table of contents Anyone have a link to a copy of the table of bag contents for the QB wing k it. Please be so kind as to post a link, email, or fax. It would be much appreciated Myron woxof@aol.com fax 480 834 9825 -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259115#259115 =========== =========== MS - =========== e - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:20 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: QB wing bag table of contents From: "woxofswa" Thanks, that is exactly what I need, unfortunately for a QB instead. The bag numbers are different. Appreciate the response though. Myron -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259121#259121 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:20 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: QB wing bag table of contents From: "woxofswa" Thanks, that is exactly what I need, unfortunately for a QB instead. The bag numbers are different. Appreciate the response though. Myron -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259120#259120 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:34 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? From: Chris Colohan Hi there! I'm trying to decide whether or not I want to jump into the pool and start building an rv-10. (Step 2: figure out if I can actually afford it.) Before I make that leap, I thought it might be a good idea to take a look at the finished product, and to perhaps help out with some building tasks to make sure it is really the kind of thing I'd like to spend several years doing. :-) So, I'm asking: 1. Is there anyone with a finished (or nearly finished) rv-10 in the Bay Area (or within a 100nm flight or so and near an airport) who might be interested in showing off their work? 2. Is there anyone working on a plane who might find a second pair of somewhat-handy hands useful? (I hear offering to hold a bucking bar is a good thing -- but I've never set real rivets, only pop rivets, so I can't offer loads of experience.) 3. Has anyone on this list nearly finished and have a good estimate of what the finished product cost to build? I fear that the estimates on Van's site might be hopelessly optimistic, and seeing some actual numbers might improve my confidence in my building decision. I tried heading up to Golden West to see all the planes, but the Cessna I rented failed a mag check (and refused to clear) after waiting 30 minutes for an IFR release. (Urk.) Thanks! Chris ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:17 PM PST US From: "Rene" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? Can not help you with the building part, but the Price part... A Very conservative number for my airplane is ~160,000 before taxes. It can be done cheaper, I could have spent less on the engine and a little less on the panel. I purchased the interior and had it painted. I also have a $6,000+ O2 System, but you need to get what you really need..want.during the build, it will be hard to do it later. The O2 was real important for me because my wife gets air sick whenever we fly over 10k w/o O2. It has worked great. Rene' 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Colohan Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:01 PM Subject: RV10-List: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? Hi there! I'm trying to decide whether or not I want to jump into the pool and start building an rv-10. (Step 2: figure out if I can actually afford it.) Before I make that leap, I thought it might be a good idea to take a look at the finished product, and to perhaps help out with some building tasks to make sure it is really the kind of thing I'd like to spend several years doing. :-) So, I'm asking: 1. Is there anyone with a finished (or nearly finished) rv-10 in the Bay Area (or within a 100nm flight or so and near an airport) who might be interested in showing off their work? 2. Is there anyone working on a plane who might find a second pair of somewhat-handy hands useful? (I hear offering to hold a bucking bar is a good thing -- but I've never set real rivets, only pop rivets, so I can't offer loads of experience.) 3. Has anyone on this list nearly finished and have a good estimate of what the finished product cost to build? I fear that the estimates on Van's site might be hopelessly optimistic, and seeing some actual numbers might improve my confidence in my building decision. I tried heading up to Golden West to see all the planes, but the Cessna I rented failed a mag check (and refused to clear) after waiting 30 minutes for an IFR release. (Urk.) Thanks! Chris ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:55 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? From: pilotdds@aol.com I am at SCK come on by,an early example but it flys well-2094770222.Cost to complete about 110-Do it yourself paint and a home overhaul on the engine.The RV-10 is an awesome aircraft. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Colohan Sent: Sat, Aug 22, 2009 4:01 pm Subject: RV10-List: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? Hi there! I'm trying to decide whether or not I want to jump into the pool and start building an rv-10. ?(Step 2: ?figure out if I can actually afford it.) ?Before I make that leap, I thought it might be a good idea to take a look at the finished product, and to perhaps help out with some building tasks to make sure it is really the kind of thing I'd like to spend several years doing. ?:-) So, I'm asking: 1. ?Is there anyone with a finished (or nearly finished) rv-10 in the Bay Area (or within a 100nm flight or so and near an airport) who might be interested in showing off their work? 2. ?Is there anyone working on a plane who might find a second pair of somewhat-handy hands useful? ?(I hear offering to hold a bucking bar is a good thing -- but I've never set real rivets, only pop rivets, so I can't offer loads of experience.) 3. ?Has anyone on this list nearly finished and have a good estimate of what the finished product cost to build? ?I fear that the estimates on Van's site might be hopelessly optimistic, and seeing some actual numbers might improve my confidence in my building decision. I tried heading up to Golden West to see all the planes, but the Cessna I rented failed a mag check (and refused to clear) after waiting 30 minutes for an IFR release. ?(Urk.) Thanks! Chris ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:47 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? I can not help with the near by 10. A very good rule of thumb for costs is the 3X rule. Use the airframe cost and multiply by 3 for the finished built product. Then use the airframe cost and multiply by 9 to determine the cost of certified equivalent. As example 50K for the 10 kit, 50k for engine and prop and Firewall forward kit, and 50K for avionics and finishing including a modest paint job. A 10 goes faster , carries more and is better equipped than most new C182s. Check a new 182 price with glass panel avionics and it is at least 400K. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 4:44 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? Can not help you with the building part, but the Price part... A Very conservative number for my airplane is ~160,000 before taxes. It can be done cheaper, I could have spent less on the engine and a little less on the panel. I purchased the interior and had it painted. I also have a $6,000+ O2 System, but you need to get what you really need..want.during the build, it will be hard to do it later. The O2 was real important for me because my wife gets air sick whenever we fly over 10k w/o O2. It has worked great. Rene' 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Colohan Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:01 PM Subject: RV10-List: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? Hi there! I'm trying to decide whether or not I want to jump into the pool and start building an rv-10. (Step 2: figure out if I can actually afford it.) Before I make that leap, I thought it might be a good idea to take a look at the finished product, and to perhaps help out with some building tasks to make sure it is really the kind of thing I'd like to spend several years doing. :-) So, I'm asking: 1. Is there anyone with a finished (or nearly finished) rv-10 in the Bay Area (or within a 100nm flight or so and near an airport) who might be interested in showing off their work? 2. Is there anyone working on a plane who might find a second pair of somewhat-handy hands useful? (I hear offering to hold a bucking bar is a good thing -- but I've never set real rivets, only pop rivets, so I can't offer loads of experience.) 3. Has anyone on this list nearly finished and have a good estimate of what the finished product cost to build? I fear that the estimates on Van's site might be hopelessly optimistic, and seeing some actual numbers might improve my confidence in my building decision. I tried heading up to Golden West to see all the planes, but the Cessna I rented failed a mag check (and refused to clear) after waiting 30 minutes for an IFR release. (Urk.) Thanks! Chris http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:29 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? From: "Bob Turner" I'm in Castro Valley, #40745. I also know Dave, in Livermore, #40746 (just coincidence on the numbers!). We're both on the finish kit stage (which definitely does not mean it's finished - maybe 60% of the way there. We're both working in garages (he has a 3 car garage, I have a smallish 2 car garage). If you'd like to come by, see what it looks like stuffed into a garage like this, talk about the work, the cost to date, expected final cost, etc., I'd be happy to host you, and I'm sure Dave would, too. email me at if you'd like to visit. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259147#259147 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:29 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? From: Dave Saylor Chris, We're in Watsonville, near Monterey, at KWVI. I have a 10 that I finished in '07 now with 475 hours. I'd be happy to take you for a quick flight and show you around our shop. Just give me a call and we can set up a time for you come over and see a bunch of experimentals, including my 10. We do SportAir weekend workshops with EAA and other workshops too. Best Regards, Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:27 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning For those who are interested in running LOP and who want to get better injector tuning to make their engine run smooth when Lean of Peak, I wrote up my recent experience in tuning the injectors. It was cheap, and very very easy. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20090822/index.html There will be a future update to the write-up, as I'm working on a project on another engine, but the info here should give you what you need to get started tweaking your own system. It's so simple that there's no reason not to get your engine set up for great operation. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD 540 hours and climbing ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:37 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning For those who are interested in running LOP and who want to get better injector tuning to make their engine run smooth when Lean of Peak, I wrote up my recent experience in tuning the injectors. It was cheap, and very very easy. http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20090822/index.html There will be a future update to the write-up, as I'm working on a project on another engine, but the info here should give you what you need to get started tweaking your own system. It's so simple that there's no reason not to get your engine set up for great operation. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD 540 hours and climbing ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:08 PM PST US From: "Lew Gallagher" Subject: RV10-List: IO-540 online manual - Lew Hey Tim, If you're back from vacation, did someone ever send you the online IO-540 manual? If so, could you send it to me? I've been looking for it also and apparently those who used to post a link to it have been shut down -- maybe copywright problems? Thanks, - Lew ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:02 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RV10-List: LOP Attached is a picture of the GRT Sport that backs up my Chelton displays; it has a LOP lean function where the boxes appear as each EGT peaks and then declines. The GRT EIS is feeding both the Chelton and the GRT Sport with serial data on engine performance. The two Chelton screens show comparable data from about the same time. Fortunately I did not have to balance my injectors as the spread of both EGTs and CHTs seemed adequate. My engine was a new certified IO540 from Vans. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:18 PM PST US From: "richard sipp" Subject: Re: RV10-List: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning Tim: Great post as usual on your injector balancing experience. I had very nearly the same experience and results with two minor variations; a complete Airflow Performance system vs. your Silver Hawk and we started by installing .026's in all cylinders and then balancing. I ran most of the tests at 10-11 MSL and verified at the results at 7.5. Don R. felt that at the lower power settings of around 50-60% the flow divider begins to be the determining factor and by going to the smaller .026s the flow divider is taken out of the equation. There was an interesting series of pictures and notes regarding burned pistons (don't remember where I saw them) where the author thought the cause was "rapid" mixture leaning used by LOP operators. He felt the rapid rise in EGT was the cause. I disagree. GAMI recommends the "big pull" from rich to LOP and then a finer adujustment to prevent spending more time in the danger zone of peak to 100 rich of peak. Also with a rapid initial mixture leaning I doubt the cylinder or piston temp will increase before it cools from steady LOP operation. Further at <65% I do not think you can do anything to the mixture that would harm or overstress the engine. Regarding long range cruise I was happy to find that my engine seems equally smooth at 2250 as at higher RPM. I see about a 1GPH reduction in fuel flow with each 100 RPM reduction at full throttle settings and there is very little airspeed loss as the prop is taking bigger bits (sorta like overdrive). Charles Lindberg showed the P-38 pilots in the South Pacific how to double their range by running "over square and lean". Finally, to prevent the prop driving the engine during higher speed descents I keep the RPM at least "2" oversquare below manifold pressure. This is common practice with the big radials and it would seem equally applicable to our engines. Dick Sipp N110DV 175 hours ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.