Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:45 AM - Leaning for Climb, LOP ppt, and more (Tim Olson)
2. 06:54 AM - Re: Leaning for Climb, LOP ppt, and more (Kelly McMullen)
3. 07:55 AM - Re: Leaning for Climb, LOP ppt, and more (Linn Walters)
4. 08:19 AM - Airflow Oil Box Splitter (Deems Davis)
5. 08:21 AM - Re: Leaning for Climb, LOP ppt, and more (David McNeill)
6. 09:42 AM - Re: Airflow Oil Box Splitter (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
7. 09:52 AM - Re: RV8-List: Oil Cooler Size On RV-10...? (Richard Martin)
8. 10:04 AM - Re: Oil Cooler Size On RV-10...? (Matt Dralle)
9. 10:38 AM - Re: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? (Chris Colohan)
10. 12:38 PM - Re: Leaning for Climb, LOP ppt, and more (John Cumins)
11. 12:44 PM - Re: Re: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? (John Cumins)
12. 12:44 PM - Re: Airflow Oil Box Splitter (Rene Felker)
13. 01:24 PM - Re: Power point presentation on LOP (Bill DeRouchey)
14. 02:12 PM - Re: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning (Bill DeRouchey)
15. 03:12 PM - Re: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning (Linn Walters)
16. 04:54 PM - Olsons great getaway writeup (Pascal)
17. 05:40 PM - Re: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning (Marcus Cooper)
18. 06:08 PM - Grab Handles (Michael Kraus)
19. 06:08 PM - Re: Olsons great getaway writeup (Tim Olson)
20. 06:24 PM - Re: Grab Handles (David Maib)
21. 06:34 PM - Re: Question on Control Cables & FAB (johngoodman)
22. 06:52 PM - Re: Grab Handles (Jesse Saint)
23. 07:01 PM - Re: Grab Handles (Linn Walters)
24. 07:22 PM - Re: Grab Handles (Jesse Saint)
25. 07:27 PM - Re: Grab Handles (Rene)
26. 07:54 PM - Re: Grab Handles (Marcus Cooper)
27. 08:23 PM - Re: Grab Handles (Perry, Phil)
28. 08:29 PM - Re: Grab Handles (Tim Olson)
29. 08:55 PM - Re: Grab Handles (Linn Walters)
30. 09:40 PM - Re: Grab Handles (Jeff Carpenter)
31. 09:44 PM - Re: Grab Handles (Don McDonald)
32. 10:13 PM - Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Deems Davis)
33. 10:54 PM - Big Iron Envy (Robin Marks)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Leaning for Climb, LOP ppt, and more |
A quick note on leaning during climb.
As many of you know, when you takeoff at altitude, especially over
5,000' of altitude, you will need to lean to get the proper takeoff
power. A trick I learned a while back is that during climb, all the way
up, you can lean to about 1225 degrees EGT, and if you maintain that
temp your engine should be roughly leaned appropriately for climb. If
you go full rich and try to climb to 8,000-10,000', your EGT's will be
too low and you won't be making much power. In addition, I've worked
with one person who had a Carbon Monoxide issue, and when I asked what
the EGT's were, they sounded very low. By leaning out the engine a bit
and raising the EGT's, the CO problem went away. So leaning is very
important during cruise and climb.
I did update my LOP Write-up at
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20090822/index.html
to add some additional info near the bottom, including the above.
I also put in an "Advanced Pilot Seminar" on leaning link at the bottom,
and a link to a .pdf version of the ppt that Sheldon had.
One other quick note....
I did get a trip write-up done from my latest travels to Utah,
Oregon, and Idaho. Might be boring for you, but it was a
really interesting trip in some respects.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/flights/20090819/index.html
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Leaning for Climb, LOP ppt, and more |
APS generally recommends that you note whatever your sea-level EGT is
for takeoff, if possible, and use that value for leaning in the climb.
If not possible, they suggest 1250-1300 or 200 degrees rich of your
normal 75% cruise peak EGT. Like you, I prefer to stay between
1200-1250, but don't get excited if it goes to 1275 initially on an
adjustment. You don't need to obsess about precision, just keep it
ballparked with 50 degrees or so of your target.
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> A quick note on leaning during climb.
> As many of you know, when you takeoff at altitude, especially over
> 5,000' of altitude, you will need to lean to get the proper takeoff
> power. A trick I learned a while back is that during climb, all the way
> up, you can lean to about 1225 degrees EGT, and if you maintain that
> temp your engine should be roughly leaned appropriately for climb. If
> you go full rich and try to climb to 8,000-10,000', your EGT's will be
> too low and you won't be making much power. In addition, I've worked
> with one person who had a Carbon Monoxide issue, and when I asked what
> the EGT's were, they sounded very low. By leaning out the engine a bit
> and raising the EGT's, the CO problem went away. So leaning is very
> important during cruise and climb.
>
>
> I did update my LOP Write-up at
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20090822/index.html
> to add some additional info near the bottom, including the above.
> I also put in an "Advanced Pilot Seminar" on leaning link at the bottom,
> and a link to a .pdf version of the ppt that Sheldon had.
>
>
> One other quick note....
> I did get a trip write-up done from my latest travels to Utah,
> Oregon, and Idaho. Might be boring for you, but it was a
> really interesting trip in some respects.
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/flights/20090819/index.html
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Leaning for Climb, LOP ppt, and more |
The only comment I can make is that a specific EGT number will almost
always (sometimes we get lucky) work different on different
installations. The biggest issue in climbing is to prevent cooking the
cylinders. Many 'big' engines use the rich fuel mixture as a cooling
aid, and again, installation makes a difference. I always lean ..... to
prevent lead buildup in the plugs ..... but CHT drives how much. Get
the engine up to operating temp, and then do a T&G and climb like you
want ..... and lean using CHTs and then note the EGTs to establish your
own number. The CHTs are slow to react to changes in power, so be careful.
Linn
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> A quick note on leaning during climb.
> As many of you know, when you takeoff at altitude, especially over
> 5,000' of altitude, you will need to lean to get the proper takeoff
> power. A trick I learned a while back is that during climb, all the way
> up, you can lean to about 1225 degrees EGT, and if you maintain that
> temp your engine should be roughly leaned appropriately for climb. If
> you go full rich and try to climb to 8,000-10,000', your EGT's will be
> too low and you won't be making much power. In addition, I've worked
> with one person who had a Carbon Monoxide issue, and when I asked what
> the EGT's were, they sounded very low. By leaning out the engine a bit
> and raising the EGT's, the CO problem went away. So leaning is very
> important during cruise and climb.
>
>
> I did update my LOP Write-up at
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20090822/index.html
> to add some additional info near the bottom, including the above.
> I also put in an "Advanced Pilot Seminar" on leaning link at the bottom,
> and a link to a .pdf version of the ppt that Sheldon had.
>
>
> One other quick note....
> I did get a trip write-up done from my latest travels to Utah,
> Oregon, and Idaho. Might be boring for you, but it was a
> really interesting trip in some respects.
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/flights/20090819/index.html
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Airflow Oil Box Splitter |
For further information about the Oil box splitter, as well as improved
performance Oil coolers and other products. I encourage people to contact:
William F. Genevro
Managing Director
949-218-9701
@ Airflow Systems directly. Bill has spent a LOT of time researching Oil
temps and associated issues, speaking with many RV10 builders and has a
large knowledge base from which he's developed these solutions. He's
easy to talk to. The oil splitter kits are available directly from him
for $49. And are free to those who buy one of his oil coolers.
Deems Davis N519PJ
http://deemsrv10.com/index.html
Message 5
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| Subject: | Leaning for Climb, LOP ppt, and more |
Ditto on leaning. When I had my turbonormalized 177RG; the guidance from the
STC was when climbing make sure that the EGTS are abour 1250F and about
1400F for cruise. For the 10 I use the 1250F number for Takeoffs at 5000+
MSL but lean of peak EGTs usually fall in the 1350F-1400F range, while CHTs
usually range from about 275F to 320F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:36 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Leaning for Climb, LOP ppt, and more
A quick note on leaning during climb.
As many of you know, when you takeoff at altitude, especially over 5,000' of
altitude, you will need to lean to get the proper takeoff power. A trick I
learned a while back is that during climb, all the way up, you can lean to
about 1225 degrees EGT, and if you maintain that temp your engine should be
roughly leaned appropriately for climb. If you go full rich and try to climb
to 8,000-10,000', your EGT's will be too low and you won't be making much
power. In addition, I've worked with one person who had a Carbon Monoxide
issue, and when I asked what the EGT's were, they sounded very low. By
leaning out the engine a bit and raising the EGT's, the CO problem went
away. So leaning is very important during cruise and climb.
I did update my LOP Write-up at
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20090822/index.html
to add some additional info near the bottom, including the above.
I also put in an "Advanced Pilot Seminar" on leaning link at the bottom, and
a link to a .pdf version of the ppt that Sheldon had.
One other quick note....
I did get a trip write-up done from my latest travels to Utah, Oregon, and
Idaho. Might be boring for you, but it was a really interesting trip in
some respects.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/flights/20090819/index.html
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Airflow Oil Box Splitter |
Thanks for this info Deems. I'll have to check with Alex D and find out why
this wasn't included when I got my 2006X from him.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:14 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Airflow Oil Box Splitter
For further information about the Oil box splitter, as well as improved
performance Oil coolers and other products. I encourage people to contact:
William F. Genevro
Managing Director
949-218-9701
@ Airflow Systems directly. Bill has spent a LOT of time researching Oil
temps and associated issues, speaking with many RV10 builders and has a
large knowledge base from which he's developed these solutions. He's
easy to talk to. The oil splitter kits are available directly from him
for $49. And are free to those who buy one of his oil coolers.
Deems Davis N519PJ
http://deemsrv10.com/index.html
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Oil Cooler Size On RV-10...? |
When I built my RV8, I attempted to use the SW cooler recommended by vans,
however it was inadequate. Upon advice of Monty Barrette, and Dave Anders
(still the fastest RV) I obtained a Niagara/Harrison 10 cooler and mounted
it on the rear baffle behind cyl 4 and tilted it down approximately 35
degrees (tilt as much as possible without contacting engine mount) (it will
be necessary to remove some metal from the flange on the cooler to prevent
contact with engine mount tube). This set up has proven to be excellent
providing good cooling in all temperatures up to 95 degrees outside air
including the Air Venture races when I run at 100 percent of power at low
altitude for over 2 hours (2700 rpm, 27-29 inch manifold pressure) average
indicated airspeeds are 220-235mph depending on OAT.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle@matronics.com>
<rv8-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:08 PM
Subject: RV8-List: Oil Cooler Size On RV-10...?
> --> RV8-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>
>
> Hey, what size oil cooler to the RV-10's use? Is it the same on on
> the -7's and -8's? "Oil Cooler II". Or, do they use a larger one?
>
> I've got a SW10610R for my IO-390 on the RV-8 which is a monster sized
> cooler. The stock "FF-709" mounting bracket is way too small. Does Van's
> have a larger one available? What's used on the RV-10?
>
> I guess that I could make one, but I'd rather Van's CNC punch did, if you
> know what I mean...?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV
> http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle
> FWF
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Size On RV-10...? |
Thanks for the feedback Richard. Do you have some pictures of your installation
you could post to the Lists?
BTW, your computer clock is 5 days behind.
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
<http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle>http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle
FWF
At 08:33 AM 8/20/2009 Thursday, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Martin" <martin@gbonline.com>
>
>When I built my RV8, I attempted to use the SW cooler recommended by vans, however
it was inadequate. Upon advice of Monty Barrette, and Dave Anders (still
the fastest RV) I obtained a Niagara/Harrison 10 cooler and mounted it on the
rear baffle behind cyl 4 and tilted it down approximately 35 degrees (tilt as
much as possible without contacting engine mount) (it will be necessary to remove
some metal from the flange on the cooler to prevent contact with engine
mount tube). This set up has proven to be excellent providing good cooling in
all temperatures up to 95 degrees outside air including the Air Venture races
when I run at 100 percent of power at low altitude for over 2 hours (2700 rpm,
27-29 inch manifold pressure) average indicated airspeeds are 220-235mph depending
on OAT.
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle@matronics.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>; <rv-list@matronics.com>; <rv8-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:08 PM
>Subject: RV8-List: Oil Cooler Size On RV-10...?
>
>
>>--> RV8-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>>
>>
>>Hey, what size oil cooler to the RV-10's use? Is it the same on on the -7's
and -8's? "Oil Cooler II". Or, do they use a larger one?
>>
>>I've got a SW10610R for my IO-390 on the RV-8 which is a monster sized cooler.
The stock "FF-709" mounting bracket is way too small. Does Van's have a larger
one available? What's used on the RV-10?
>>
>>I guess that I could make one, but I'd rather Van's CNC punch did, if you know
what I mean...?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Matt Dralle
>>RV-8 #82880 N998RV
>>http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle
>>FWF
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? |
Wow, what a nice response I got!
FYI -- I swung by Bob's house on Sunday, since he was the closest to where
I live. Very impressive project.
I am now pretty convinced that I want to build one of my own. Time to start
working harder on the finances... ;-)
Chris
On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Chris Colohan <rv10@colohan.com> wrote:
> Hi there!
> I'm trying to decide whether or not I want to jump into the pool and start
> building an rv-10. (Step 2: figure out if I can actually afford it.)
> Before I make that leap, I thought it might be a good idea to take a look
> at the finished product, and to perhaps help out with some building tasks to
> make sure it is really the kind of thing I'd like to spend several years
> doing. :-)
>
> So, I'm asking:
>
> 1. Is there anyone with a finished (or nearly finished) rv-10 in the Bay
> Area (or within a 100nm flight or so and near an airport) who might be
> interested in showing off their work?
>
> 2. Is there anyone working on a plane who might find a second pair of
> somewhat-handy hands useful? (I hear offering to hold a bucking bar is a
> good thing -- but I've never set real rivets, only pop rivets, so I can't
> offer loads of experience.)
>
> 3. Has anyone on this list nearly finished and have a good estimate of
> what the finished product cost to build? I fear that the estimates on Van's
> site might be hopelessly optimistic, and seeing some actual numbers might
> improve my confidence in my building decision.
>
> I tried heading up to Golden West to see all the planes, but the Cessna I
> rented failed a mag check (and refused to clear) after waiting 30 minutes
> for an IFR release. (Urk.)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Chris
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Leaning for Climb, LOP ppt, and more |
I do this every time I fly. Especially at take off at high alt airports it
works great. You will be amazed how much more power is available with this
leaning procedure.
The Saratoga sea level egt is right at 1300 so I use 1250 to 1300 for climb
egt.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Leaning for Climb, LOP ppt, and more
APS generally recommends that you note whatever your sea-level EGT is
for takeoff, if possible, and use that value for leaning in the climb.
If not possible, they suggest 1250-1300 or 200 degrees rich of your
normal 75% cruise peak EGT. Like you, I prefer to stay between
1200-1250, but don't get excited if it goes to 1275 initially on an
adjustment. You don't need to obsess about precision, just keep it
ballparked with 50 degrees or so of your target.
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> A quick note on leaning during climb.
> As many of you know, when you takeoff at altitude, especially over
> 5,000' of altitude, you will need to lean to get the proper takeoff
> power. A trick I learned a while back is that during climb, all the way
> up, you can lean to about 1225 degrees EGT, and if you maintain that
> temp your engine should be roughly leaned appropriately for climb. If
> you go full rich and try to climb to 8,000-10,000', your EGT's will be
> too low and you won't be making much power. In addition, I've worked
> with one person who had a Carbon Monoxide issue, and when I asked what
> the EGT's were, they sounded very low. By leaning out the engine a bit
> and raising the EGT's, the CO problem went away. So leaning is very
> important during cruise and climb.
>
>
> I did update my LOP Write-up at
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20090822/index.html
> to add some additional info near the bottom, including the above.
> I also put in an "Advanced Pilot Seminar" on leaning link at the bottom,
> and a link to a .pdf version of the ppt that Sheldon had.
>
>
> One other quick note....
> I did get a trip write-up done from my latest travels to Utah,
> Oregon, and Idaho. Might be boring for you, but it was a
> really interesting trip in some respects.
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/flights/20090819/index.html
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area? |
Chris
You will be glad you did. I am in Dixon just up I80 from you contact me and
come visit any time.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Colohan
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:32 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Builders/owners in the SF Bay Area?
Wow, what a nice response I got!
FYI -- I swung by Bob's house on Sunday, since he was the closest to where
I live. Very impressive project.
I am now pretty convinced that I want to build one of my own. Time to start
working harder on the finances... ;-)
Chris
On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Chris Colohan <rv10@colohan.com> wrote:
Hi there!
I'm trying to decide whether or not I want to jump into the pool and start
building an rv-10. (Step 2: figure out if I can actually afford it.)
Before I make that leap, I thought it might be a good idea to take a look at
the finished product, and to perhaps help out with some building tasks to
make sure it is really the kind of thing I'd like to spend several years
doing. :-)
So, I'm asking:
1. Is there anyone with a finished (or nearly finished) rv-10 in the Bay
Area (or within a 100nm flight or so and near an airport) who might be
interested in showing off their work?
2. Is there anyone working on a plane who might find a second pair of
somewhat-handy hands useful? (I hear offering to hold a bucking bar is a
good thing -- but I've never set real rivets, only pop rivets, so I can't
offer loads of experience.)
3. Has anyone on this list nearly finished and have a good estimate of what
the finished product cost to build? I fear that the estimates on Van's site
might be hopelessly optimistic, and seeing some actual numbers might improve
my confidence in my building decision.
I tried heading up to Golden West to see all the planes, but the Cessna I
rented failed a mag check (and refused to clear) after waiting 30 minutes
for an IFR release. (Urk.)
Thanks!
Chris
Message 12
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| Subject: | Airflow Oil Box Splitter |
Please let me know what you find out, I did not get one either and I could
use a little more improvement. Saw oil temps in the low 220's when I left
Las Vegas last month.....
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:34 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Airflow Oil Box Splitter
<rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Thanks for this info Deems. I'll have to check with Alex D and find out
why this wasn't included when I got my 2006X from him.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:14 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Airflow Oil Box Splitter
For further information about the Oil box splitter, as well as improved
performance Oil coolers and other products. I encourage people to contact:
William F. Genevro
Managing Director
949-218-9701
@ Airflow Systems directly. Bill has spent a LOT of time researching Oil
temps and associated issues, speaking with many RV10 builders and has a
large knowledge base from which he's developed these solutions. He's
easy to talk to. The oil splitter kits are available directly from him
for $49. And are free to those who buy one of his oil coolers.
Deems Davis N519PJ
http://deemsrv10.com/index.html
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Power point presentation on LOP |
Please send a copy.
Thanks,
Bill
--- On Mon, 8/24/09, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Power point presentation on LOP
I'm interested.- Thanks,
Linn
Sheldon Olesen wrote:
>
> If anyone is interested there is a power point presentation by one of the
GAMI guys on LOP operations.- It details where the problem ROP and LOP t
emps are (the RED Box).- The List won't accept the format so email me off
list for a copy.
>
>
> Sheldon Olesen
> N475PV 106 hours
>
>
>
>
>
le, List Admin.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning |
Hi Tim-
If I dissect the trip with you and Scott Schmidt you were flying at 14% und
er max (176.5/205smph) at 9.5gph which yields 18.5smpg. This is the same ef
ficiency as David flying 20% under with reduced power. Not much different t
han the-19.1smph that I reported. The difference could easily be explaine
d by atmospherics or loading.
-
My interest is cross country efficiency and I thought there was a significa
nt miles per gallon increase with slowing the plane down and running LOP. M
y original thought was to-collect data points from everyone and plot-ai
rspeed-percent reduction vs the miles per gallon at LOP. We know when run
ning ROP the speed increases little and the consumption lots. I made a some
what speed run recently at 8000ft/DA 10425, WOT, 2400rpm, lean 25degF ROP,
200mph TAS, 13.6gph. A 3% drop in speed yielded 14.7smpg.
-
With still just a small amount of data it would seem that-right at peak E
GT is the maximum fuel efficiency/airspeed optimum and the fuel efficiency
remains (or drops slightly)-as you lean into-LOP territory.
-
I ran into Scott on a grass strip in the middle of Idaho. He has a beautifu
l aircraft.
-
This is getting too far from the theme of injector tuning so I'll drop off
but may bring up efficiency and prop settings at a later date.
-
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB
-
--- On Sun, 8/23/09, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning
Bill,
Regarding the speeds, I don't know why Dave was only getting 164.5
statute mph, but my LOP cruise is typically way better than that,
which is about 143kts, right?- If I am way lean of peak, and/or
very heavy loaded, I MAY get slowed down to 155-156kts TAS, but
on plenty of trips I'm seeing speeds of 164-166kts at LOP cruise.
If I fly ROP, I'd say most commonly I'll see 173-175kts, sometimes
slower. I've found that between leaning variations, turbulence,
altitudes flown, and loadings, that the speed can be all over the
map, but I don't know that I've ever really seen constant enroute
cruise figures of less than 152kts on my trips.- So if I am
getting, say 189-190 statue mph on many flights, and I'm generally
burning 9.5-10.5 gph at my most commonly flown altitudes,
I'm probably pushing right up near that same 19.1 statue mpg
on many flights.- There are times I'm a bit less, but loadings
and the other factors don't always duplicate themselves.- I'll
tell you what though, there's no way that I'm not getting
better efficiency than someone flying ROP.- As Kelly pointed
out, it's the temps, the cleanness, and all sorts of other
things that are benefits too.- I'd say that you will usually
lose 6-10kts depending on many factors, such as how far you
lean past peak.- I usually just go for 25 LOP on the last
cyl. to peak.
Regarding flying ROP or at peak, like you are talking about,
I tend to agree that if you're way down in power like at
65%, you're probably not going to hurt anything too bad.
But, for those who are running 50-100 ROP, you probably
want to do a bit of studying up.- I don't have the numbers
committed to memory, but there is a window at higher power
settings where you really don't want to stay, and I
think in order to stay out of it you really have to
either fly WAY ROP, or go LOP.- Again, don't quote me,
but if you venture over 75% power, I'd avoid that range
from maybe 125 to 0 ROP. (Can someone verify that? I've got
docs but I'm not going to dig them up right this minute)
So I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong, at the
lower power levels you can get away with anything. But,
I think you picked a pretty lowball datapoint from David
if you're going to use his 164.5smph.- Scott Schmidt
and I both just flew together for 3.75 hours running
LOP and we blew that speed away by at least 10kts
for the whole trip, on something like 9.5 gph.- He was
lighter loaded than me and burned about 2 gallons less
over the entire leg.
So the point is, I don't think most people will give up enough
speed to worry about it a whole lot.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
Bill DeRouchey wrote:
> I believe tuning the injector nozzles will create a smoother running engi
ne and that in itself has value. However, I have been mystified during thes
e conversations as to the value of running LOP vs fuel economy. There was n
ever enough data in the emails to get the whole picture. The question I alw
ays had was how much speed are you willing to loose to gain how much fuel e
fficiency?
>- Thanks to Dave's pic of his panel and my own experience I was able to
put a picture together.
>- The following numbers are in statute miles and the Density Altitude is
similar. If we assume that the top speed of our RV-10's is 205mph then Dav
e is flying 20% (164.5smph) under max and achieving 18.6smpg while leaned t
o approx 25deg LOP. An averaged flight in my plane is 6% under max speed (1
93smph) achieving 19.1smpg while leaned to peak. My definition of peak is w
hen 3 cylinders drop.
>- Typical panel setup for me is: WOT, 10-13K feet, 2380-2420rpm, 10.1-10
.3gph, lean to peak.
>- These are only two datapoints. What are others achieving? And please p
rovide the whole picture - what is the percent under max speed you are will
ing to fly and the miles per gallon you are achieving as a benefit. I assum
e the whole LOP (other than a smooth engine) is to achieve fuel efficiency.
>- What am I missing?
>- Bill DeRouchey
> N939SB
>- ---
> --- On *Sun, 8/23/09, Deems Davis /<deemsdavis@cox.net>/* wrote:
>
>
>- ---From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>- ---Subject: Re: RV10-List: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning
>- ---To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>- ---Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 8:22 AM
>
net
>- ---<http://us.mc344.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@co
x.net>>
>
>- ---All of the LOP information is GREAT. Keep it coming !!!!!!! I
have a
>- ---question:
>
>- ---When leaning the engine, the 'old traditional / prior to gage
s' way
>- ---was to lean it until it begins to 'stumble' and then richen i
t up a
>- ---bit. When I lean using the EGT gages I notice the 'stumble' w
hen the
>- ---1st cylinder goes lean. If you continue to lean until all of
the
>- ---remaining cylinders peak (LOP), What happens to the 'stumble'
???
>- ---Does it even out / go way with the engine running smooth? Doe
s it
>- ---persist? Since any changes in the engines smooth running are
a
>- ---concern in flight, I'd appreciate learning what those of you
that
>- ---are routinely running LOP are experiencing.
>
>- ---Deems Davis N519PJ
>- ---http://deemsrv10.com/index.html
>
>- ---gary wrote:
t
>- ---<http://us.mc344.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=speckter@comc
ast.net>>
>- - - >
>- - - > Is there a danger with running too much over square?- Dick
>- ---mentions 2" but I
>- - - > have been running more than that (2200 and 26")LOP. I have n
ot
>- ---seen much
>- - - > info on running over square.
>- - - >
>- - - > Gary Specketer
>- - - >
>- - - > -----Original Message-----
>- - - > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>- ---<http://us.mc344.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-li
st-server@matronics.com>
>- - - > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>- ---<http://us.mc344.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-li
st-server@matronics.com>]
>- ---On Behalf Of richard sipp
>- - - > Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 11:57 PM
>- - - > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>- ---<http://us.mc344.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rv10-list@mat
ronics.com>
>- - - > Subject: Re: RV10-List: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning
>- - - >
>- ---<rsipp@earthlink.net
>- ---<http://us.mc344.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rsipp@earthli
nk.net>>
>- - - >
>- - - > Tim:
>- - - >
>- - - > Great post as usual on your injector balancing experience.
- I had
>- ---very nearly the same experience and results with two minor
>- ---variations; a complete
>- - - >
>- - - > Airflow Performance system vs. your Silver Hawk and we start
ed by
>- ---installing
>- - - >
>- - - > .026's in all cylinders and then balancing.- I ran most of
the
>- ---tests at 10-11 MSL and verified at the results at 7.5.- Don
R. felt
>- ---that at the lower
>- - - >
>- - - > power settings of around 50-60% the flow divider begins to b
e the
>- ---determining factor and by going to the smaller .026s the flow
>- ---divider is taken out of the equation.
>- - - >
>- - - > There was an interesting series of pictures and notes regard
ing
>- ---burned pistons (don't remember where I saw them) where the au
thor
>- ---thought the cause
>- - - >
>- - - > was "rapid" mixture leaning used by LOP operators.- He fel
t the
>- ---rapid rise in EGT was the cause.- I disagree.- GAMI recom
mends the
>- ---"big pull" from rich
>- - - >
>- - - > to LOP and then a finer adujustment to prevent spending more
time
>- ---in the danger zone of peak to 100 rich of peak.- Also with
a rapid
>- ---initial mixture leaning I doubt the cylinder or piston temp w
ill
>- ---increase before it cools from steady LOP operation.- Furthe
r at <65%
>- ---I do not think you can do anything to the mixture that would
harm or
>- ---overstress the engine.
>- - - >
>- - - > Regarding long range cruise I was happy to find that my engi
ne
>- ---seems equally
>- - - >
>- - - > smooth at 2250 as at higher RPM.- I see about a 1GPH reduc
tion in
>- ---fuel flow with each 100 RPM reduction at full throttle settin
gs and
>- ---there is very little airspeed loss as the prop is taking bigg
er bits
>- ---(sorta like overdrive). Charles Lindberg showed the P-38 pilo
ts in
>- ---the South Pacific how
>- - - >
>- - - > to double their range by running "over square and lean".-
---Finally, to prevent the prop driving the engine during higher spee
d
>- ---descents I keep the RPM at least "2" oversquare below manifol
d
>- ---pressure.- This is common practice with the big radials and
it would
>- ---seem equally applicable to our engines.
>- - - >
>- - - > Dick Sipp
>- - - > N110DV 175 hours
>- - - >
>- - - >
>- - - >
>- - - >
>- - - >
>- - - >
>- - - >
>- - - >
>- - - >
>- - - > ====================
===
>- ---<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>http://www.mat
====================
>
>
>
>- ---<http://forums.matronics.com/>
>
> *
>
>
> *
le, List Admin.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning |
Bill, please continue to gather data ..... for those of us that still
dream of a flying airplane. It's my understanding that LOP has
significant savings. IMHO, the data points should contain your numbers
below plus MP. I'd also be curious what your CHTs and EGTs are. I
think the -10 can do better with some attention to cooling drag.
Linn
do not archive.
Bill DeRouchey wrote:
> Hi Tim-
> If I dissect the trip with you and Scott Schmidt you were flying at 14%
> under max (176.5/205smph) at 9.5gph which yields 18.5smpg. This is the
> same efficiency as David flying 20% under with reduced power. Not much
> different than the 19.1smph that I reported. The difference could easily
> be explained by atmospherics or loading.
>
> My interest is cross country efficiency and I thought there was a
> significant miles per gallon increase with slowing the plane down and
> running LOP. My original thought was to collect data points from
> everyone and plot airspeed percent reduction vs the miles per gallon at
> LOP. We know when running ROP the speed increases little and the
> consumption lots. I made a somewhat speed run recently at 8000ft/DA
> 10425, WOT, 2400rpm, lean 25degF ROP, 200mph TAS, 13.6gph. A 3% drop in
> speed yielded 14.7smpg.
>
> With still just a small amount of data it would seem that right at peak
> EGT is the maximum fuel efficiency/airspeed optimum and the fuel
> efficiency remains (or drops slightly) as you lean into LOP territory.
>
> I ran into Scott on a grass strip in the middle of Idaho. He has a
> beautiful aircraft.
>
> This is getting too far from the theme of injector tuning so I'll drop
> off but may bring up efficiency and prop settings at a later date.
>
> Bill DeRouchey
> N939SB
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Olsons great getaway writeup |
Tim;
Thanks for the flight writeup. I always see it like some "plane getaways"
review, except it seems more exciting somehow knowing that you are doing
everything we hope to do in a year or two in our -10.
Keep up the great stories!.
Thanks for taking the time to share the journey!
Pascal
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:36 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Leaning for Climb, LOP ppt, and more
>
> One other quick note....
> I did get a trip write-up done from my latest travels to Utah,
> Oregon, and Idaho. Might be boring for you, but it was a
> really interesting trip in some respects.
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/flights/20090819/index.html
>
>
> --
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning |
Great explanation Kelly, THANKS.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning
Do not archive
Hi Bill,
LOP fuel economy is only one part of the picture, and is NOT the main
reason to do it. Your engine will run cleaner, use less oil and last
longer running LOP. It causes the flame to burn slower(like higher
octane) giving a flatter pressure pulse to the piston, so that the peak
pressure is less, but the average work is close to same. If you are
below 7500(approx) you can add throttle to make up for lost power. As
long as you are LOP, power =14.9 * gal/hr. So 10gph=149hp. (57%)
75% then = 13.1 gph, if, and only if, you are running LOP. So if you can
find an altitude where you can go LOP and then adjust throttle for 13.1
gph, you should see somewhere around 190mph. Of course once you are high
enough that you are at WOT and less than 13.1 your power is less and
speed will be less. I typically give up 5-7kts to fly LOP, which is
okay as long as I am not fighting a headwind.
Bill DeRouchey wrote:
> These are only two datapoints. What are others achieving? And please
> provide the whole picture - what is the percent under max speed you are
> willing to fly and the miles per gallon you are achieving as a benefit.
> I assume the whole LOP (other than a smooth engine) is to achieve fuel
> efficiency.
>
> What am I missing?
>
> Bill DeRouchey
> N939SB
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On *Sun, 8/23/09, Deems Davis /<deemsdavis@cox.net>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 8:22 AM
>
> <http://us.mc344.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
>
> All of the LOP information is GREAT. Keep it coming !!!!!!! I have a
> question:
>
> When leaning the engine, the 'old traditional / prior to gages' way
> was to lean it until it begins to 'stumble' and then richen it up a
> bit. When I lean using the EGT gages I notice the 'stumble' when the
> 1st cylinder goes lean. If you continue to lean until all of the
> remaining cylinders peak (LOP), What happens to the 'stumble' ???
> Does it even out / go way with the engine running smooth? Does it
> persist? Since any changes in the engines smooth running are a
> concern in flight, I'd appreciate learning what those of you that
> are routinely running LOP are experiencing.
>
> Deems Davis N519PJ
> http://deemsrv10.com/index.html
>
> gary wrote:
> <http://us.mc344.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=speckter@comcast.net>>
> >
> > Is there a danger with running too much over square? Dick
> mentions 2" but I
> > have been running more than that (2200 and 26")LOP. I have not
> seen much
> > info on running over square.
> >
> > Gary Specketer
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>
<http://us.mc344.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matroni
cs.com>
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>
<http://us.mc344.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server@matroni
cs.com>]
> On Behalf Of richard sipp
> > Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 11:57 PM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> <http://us.mc344.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: LOP (Lean of Peak) Injector Tuning
> >
> <rsipp@earthlink.net
> <http://us.mc344.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rsipp@earthlink.net>>
> >
> > Tim:
> >
> > Great post as usual on your injector balancing experience. I had
> very nearly the same experience and results with two minor
> variations; a complete
> >
> > Airflow Performance system vs. your Silver Hawk and we started by
> installing
> >
> > .026's in all cylinders and then balancing. I ran most of the
> tests at 10-11 MSL and verified at the results at 7.5. Don R. felt
> that at the lower
> >
> > power settings of around 50-60% the flow divider begins to be the
> determining factor and by going to the smaller .026s the flow
> divider is taken out of the equation.
> >
> > There was an interesting series of pictures and notes regarding
> burned pistons (don't remember where I saw them) where the author
> thought the cause
> >
> > was "rapid" mixture leaning used by LOP operators. He felt the
> rapid rise in EGT was the cause. I disagree. GAMI recommends the
> "big pull" from rich
> >
> > to LOP and then a finer adujustment to prevent spending more time
> in the danger zone of peak to 100 rich of peak. Also with a rapid
> initial mixture leaning I doubt the cylinder or piston temp will
> increase before it cools from steady LOP operation. Further at <65%
> I do not think you can do anything to the mixture that would harm or
> overstress the engine.
> >
> > Regarding long range cruise I was happy to find that my engine
> seems equally
> >
> > smooth at 2250 as at higher RPM. I see about a 1GPH reduction in
> fuel flow with each 100 RPM reduction at full throttle settings and
> there is very little airspeed loss as the prop is taking bigger bits
> (sorta like overdrive). Charles Lindberg showed the P-38 pilots in
> the South Pacific how
> >
> > to double their range by running "over square and lean".
> Finally, to prevent the prop driving the engine during higher speed
> descents I keep the RPM at least "2" oversquare below manifold
> pressure. This is common practice with the big radials and it would
> seem equally applicable to our engines.
> >
> > Dick Sipp
> > N110DV 175 hours
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =======================
>
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>http://www.mat===============
====
>
>
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 18
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|
I don't like the Vans set up on the grab handles. They appear very
hard to trim out as the back end is flush with the panel. I was
thinking about spacing the reinforcement rings further aft to give
some room behind it to add a trim ring or something.
What have others done to make this area look nice? Picts would be
great!!
-Mike
Sent from my iPhone
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Olsons great getaway writeup |
I just do it to try to get you all to finish up so we can have
some great RV-10 gatherings. :)
Tim
Pascal wrote:
>
> Tim;
> Thanks for the flight writeup. I always see it like some "plane
> getaways" review, except it seems more exciting somehow knowing that you
> are doing everything we hope to do in a year or two in our -10.
> Keep up the great stories!.
> Thanks for taking the time to share the journey!
> Pascal
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:36 AM
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Leaning for Climb, LOP ppt, and more
>>
>> One other quick note....
>> I did get a trip write-up done from my latest travels to Utah,
>> Oregon, and Idaho. Might be boring for you, but it was a
>> really interesting trip in some respects.
>> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/flights/20090819/index.html
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> do not archive
>>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Grab Handles |
I find that we never use the grab handles. We always use the center
windshield post when adjusting seats or getting in and out of the
airplane. I do use the right hand one as a handy place to clip my
SPOT tracker.
$.02 worth.
David Maib
40559
Flying
On Aug 25, 2009, at 9:05 PM, Michael Kraus wrote:
<n223rv@wolflakeairport.net>
I don't like the Vans set up on the grab handles. They appear very
hard to trim out as the back end is flush with the panel. I was
thinking about spacing the reinforcement rings further aft to give
some room behind it to add a trim ring or something.
What have others done to make this area look nice? Picts would be
great!!
-Mike
Sent from my iPhone
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Question on Control Cables & FAB |
It's a 7/16th inch thread, so look up the torque numbers in the tables.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine & Panel
delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259607#259607
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Grab Handles |
We just paint it & use a glareshield pad. As was mentioned, I never
use them. I always use the center bar. Much more sturdy.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation
jesse@saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 25, 2009, at 9:05 PM, Michael Kraus
<n223rv@wolflakeairport.net> wrote:
> >
>
> I don't like the Vans set up on the grab handles. They appear very
> hard to trim out as the back end is flush with the panel. I was
> thinking about spacing the reinforcement rings further aft to give
> some room behind it to add a trim ring or something.
>
> What have others done to make this area look nice? Picts would be
> great!!
>
> -Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Grab Handles |
Whic causes me to ask the question. Would anyone miss the windshield
post if the mod fairies visited??? And yes, I'm contemplating leaving
mine out. I hate stuff in the way of the 'view'. I'm not interested in
'structural' comments, just whether it's used a lot and not a real big
'distraction', so no flames, please.
Linn
David Maib wrote:
>
> I find that we never use the grab handles. We always use the center
> windshield post when adjusting seats or getting in and out of the
> airplane. I do use the right hand one as a handy place to clip my SPOT
> tracker.
>
> $.02 worth.
>
> David Maib
> 40559
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Grab Handles |
It doesn't seem to bother the view. It would be a pain not to have it.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation
jesse@saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 25, 2009, at 9:58 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
> >
>
> Whic causes me to ask the question. Would anyone miss the
> windshield post if the mod fairies visited??? And yes, I'm
> contemplating leaving mine out. I hate stuff in the way of the
> 'view'. I'm not interested in 'structural' comments, just whether
> it's used a lot and not a real big 'distraction', so no flames,
> please.
> Linn
>
> David Maib wrote:
>> I find that we never use the grab handles. We always use the center
>> windshield post when adjusting seats or getting in and out of the
>> airplane. I do use the right hand one as a handy place to clip my
>> SPOT tracker.
>> $.02 worth.
>> David Maib
>> 40559
>
>
Message 25
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Yes I would miss the post. Very hard to get in the plane without it.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Grab Handles
Whic causes me to ask the question. Would anyone miss the windshield
post if the mod fairies visited??? And yes, I'm contemplating leaving
mine out. I hate stuff in the way of the 'view'. I'm not interested in
'structural' comments, just whether it's used a lot and not a real big
'distraction', so no flames, please.
Linn
David Maib wrote:
>
> I find that we never use the grab handles. We always use the center
> windshield post when adjusting seats or getting in and out of the
> airplane. I do use the right hand one as a handy place to clip my SPOT
> tracker.
>
> $.02 worth.
>
> David Maib
> 40559
Message 26
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I honestly am not aware of the bar there in flight, so no distraction in my
opinion. I use the bar a lot as something to hold for a change in arm
position and also to shift my weight in the seat, far better than the glare
shield handholds. I would miss it a lot, but then again I'm used to it
being there. I suspect it not being there would take its toll on the glare
shield in a big way since that's all that would be there to grab on to.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Grab Handles
Do not archive
Whic causes me to ask the question. Would anyone miss the windshield
post if the mod fairies visited??? And yes, I'm contemplating leaving
mine out. I hate stuff in the way of the 'view'. I'm not interested in
'structural' comments, just whether it's used a lot and not a real big
'distraction', so no flames, please.
Linn
David Maib wrote:
>
> I find that we never use the grab handles. We always use the center
> windshield post when adjusting seats or getting in and out of the
> airplane. I do use the right hand one as a handy place to clip my SPOT
> tracker.
>
> $.02 worth.
>
> David Maib
> 40559
Message 27
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I fly an airplane with a center post and it doesn't bother me at all..
-----Original Message-----
From: Linn Walters [mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Grab Handles
<pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Whic causes me to ask the question. Would anyone miss the windshield
post if the mod fairies visited??? And yes, I'm contemplating leaving
mine out. I hate stuff in the way of the 'view'. I'm not interested in
'structural' comments, just whether it's used a lot and not a real big
'distraction', so no flames, please.
Linn
David Maib wrote:
>
> I find that we never use the grab handles. We always use the center
> windshield post when adjusting seats or getting in and out of the
> airplane. I do use the right hand one as a handy place to clip my SPOT
> tracker.
>
> $.02 worth.
>
> David Maib
> 40559
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Grab Handles |
I, like you, absolutely hated the idea of the center bar when
I first flew in the factory 10. I came from a Sundowner
that was wide open in front and had great visibility. I contemplated
getting rid of it entirely, and didn't want it there.
Funny thing is, now I wouldn't probably be without it if I had
the choice. I use it ALL the time. My hand is constantly
there, getting in, getting out, pulling myself from
under the panel, and especially when riding along in
turbulence. Sometimes I just hang my hand from there
like an ape to relax. It's great having it. I do very
highly recommend that you paint the bar a very dark color,
and the same with the glareshield...something non-reflective
for sure. You will see anything that is light in color as
a reflection in the windshield. That is the only time I'd
be annoyed, but since I painted my a darker grey, it is
usually invisible, and I'm surprised at how much my
perspective changed, once I started actually flying my -10.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
Linn Walters wrote:
>
> Whic causes me to ask the question. Would anyone miss the windshield
> post if the mod fairies visited??? And yes, I'm contemplating leaving
> mine out. I hate stuff in the way of the 'view'. I'm not interested in
> 'structural' comments, just whether it's used a lot and not a real big
> 'distraction', so no flames, please.
> Linn
>
> David Maib wrote:
>>
>> I find that we never use the grab handles. We always use the center
>> windshield post when adjusting seats or getting in and out of the
>> airplane. I do use the right hand one as a handy place to clip my SPOT
>> tracker.
>>
>> $.02 worth.
>>
>> David Maib
>> 40559
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Grab Handles |
Thanks to everyone for all the feedback on the center post! I'm not one
to ignore good advice. The post will be there when my bird flies!!!
Linn
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Grab Handles |
You mean there's supposed to be a center post?
Is that in the plans somewhere?
Do Not Archive
On Aug 25, 2009, at 8:53 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
> >
>
> Thanks to everyone for all the feedback on the center post! I'm not
> one to ignore good advice. The post will be there when my bird
> flies!!!
> Linn
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Grab Handles |
Tim,,,, and I thought I was the only one that kind of just hangs from the p
ost from time to time.- Definitely like it in there.
Don McDonald
--- On Tue, 8/25/09, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Grab Handles
I, like you, absolutely hated the idea of the center bar when
I first flew in the factory 10.- I came from a Sundowner
that was wide open in front and had great visibility. I contemplated
getting rid of it entirely, and didn't want it there.
Funny thing is, now I wouldn't probably be without it if I had
the choice. I use it ALL the time.- My hand is constantly
there, getting in, getting out, pulling myself from
under the panel, and especially when riding along in
turbulence.- Sometimes I just hang my hand from there
like an ape to relax.- It's great having it.- I do very
highly recommend that you paint the bar a very dark color,
and the same with the glareshield...something non-reflective
for sure.- You will see anything that is light in color as
a reflection in the windshield.- That is the only time I'd
be annoyed, but since I painted my a darker grey, it is
usually invisible, and I'm surprised at how much my
perspective changed, once I started actually flying my -10.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
Linn Walters wrote:
>
> Whic causes me to ask the question.- Would anyone miss the windshield p
ost if the mod fairies visited???- And yes, I'm contemplating leaving min
e out.- I hate stuff in the way of the 'view'.- I'm not interested in '
structural' comments, just whether it's used a lot and not a real big 'dist
raction', so no flames, please.
> Linn
>
> David Maib wrote:
>>
>> I find that we never use the grab handles. We always use the center wind
shield post when adjusting seats or getting in and out of the airplane. I d
o use the right hand one as a handy place to clip my SPOT tracker.
>>
>> $.02 worth.
>>
>> David Maib
>> 40559
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? |
I like this idea ... RV10 gathering/s. OSH is definitely a great
gathering, but I'd love to see if there's any interest in getting
together somewhere with some other builder/flyers. I think the biggest
attraction to OSH for me is just getting to visit with other similarly
'infected' types.
I monitor the SoCal RV list, and they routinely have several posts each
week where several people connect and either meet somewhere or fly
somewhere together. I realize we're spread across the US and the
logistics are greatly expanded, but it would be nice if we developed
into the kind of group that routinely met and flew together either
regionally or otherwise.
What if people just used this list to post ideas about where, who, and
when they would like to take a trip with some others? and let people
naturally connect? If it turns out to be a benefit, who know someone
might set up part of a website as an " I want to take a trip' bulletin
board.
Deems Davis N519PJ
http://deemsrv10.com/index.html
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I just do it to try to get you all to finish up so we can have
> some great RV-10 gatherings. :)
> Tim
>
Message 33
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RV-List,
In the past I have mentioned that a number of pilots
have said how bright & noticeable my Dual Wig Wag HID lights are from
the ground when I am on approach during the daylight hours. This is
exactly what I wanted from the first day I saw my neighbor's Pilatus
swoop into our home field with his flashing HID's a blazing. I think the
little boy inside of me said... "me want."
Well yesterday on a dusk flight departing the LA basin
ATC called traffic "South West 737 you have RV-10 Traffic 10 O'clock, 17
miles 8,500 feet. November 110EE traffic 2:00 O'clock descending out of
one-one-thousand feet a Boeing 737." Before I could respond the South
West 737 replied Traffic Insight. Moments later the SW pilot told me
through the controller "that is some light system he has on his RV-10,
it's really easy to pick up" COOL! Getting "at a boy's" from commercial
pilots.
I consider the Wig-Wag HID's to be an important safety feature on my
-10. Seeing is avoiding.
The set up is nothing out of the ordinary with the
exception of dual 35W HID lights placed in the leading edge. If
interested I have a page that shows the install.
http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/Lights_LEDHID.htm . One more thing of
note. When on that page you will also see some pretty expensive (but
nice) LED Position Lights. My next build is an RV-8A and I have found a
set of Red & Green LED bulbs for around $8.00 each including wired
sockets (eBay). These appear to be an excellent and cost effective
solution vs. the printed circuit board LED's I used on my -10. Plus some
significant time savings to install as well. I will report results once
flying.
Not exactly the LED's I purchased but this gives you an idea of the
concept: eBay Item# 380151029392
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/G18-67-67-Hyper-Green-15-LED-Light-Bulb-
12v-1156-61-63_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem5882
c45e90QQitemZ380151029392QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
>
Robin
RV-4 Sold
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 75 Hours
RV-8A Flying 2010
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