---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/27/09: 53 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:12 AM - Re: AOPA magazine (Miller John) 2. 06:41 AM - Re: 40G (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 3. 07:33 AM - Re: Question on Control Cables & FAB (jayb) 4. 07:42 AM - Re: 40G (Robert Brunkenhoefer) 5. 07:42 AM - Re: Big Iron Envy (Robin Marks) 6. 08:14 AM - Re: AOPA magazine (Pascal) 7. 08:17 AM - Re: AOPA magazine (Tim Olson) 8. 08:27 AM - Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Robert Brunkenhoefer) 9. 09:13 AM - Fw: The honeymooners- response from Dave (Pascal) 10. 09:29 AM - Re: AOPA magazine (Patrick Thyssen) 11. 09:33 AM - Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (orchidman) 12. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Tim Olson) 13. 10:13 AM - Re: AOPA magazine (John Cox) 14. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Deems Davis) 15. 10:17 AM - Re: Fw: The honeymooners- response from Dave (Rick Sked) 16. 10:17 AM - Re: AOPA magazine (Tim Olson) 17. 10:43 AM - Re: AOPA magazine (John Cox) 18. 11:18 AM - Re: RV-10 Article (Dave Saylor) 19. 11:18 AM - Re: RV-10 Article (Dave Saylor) 20. 11:18 AM - Re: AOPA magazine (Tim Olson) 21. 11:32 AM - Re: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Deems Davis) 22. 11:45 AM - Re: AOPA magazine (richard sipp) 23. 11:55 AM - Re: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Robert Brunkenhoefer) 24. 12:10 PM - Re: AOPA magazine (Pascal) 25. 12:15 PM - Re: AOPA magazine (David McNeill) 26. 12:16 PM - Re: AOPA magazine (Rene Felker) 27. 12:38 PM - Re: AOPA magazine (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 28. 01:06 PM - Re: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (gary) 29. 01:18 PM - Re: AOPA magazine (Kelly McMullen) 30. 01:38 PM - Re: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (David Maib) 31. 01:38 PM - Re: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Kelly McMullen) 32. 01:38 PM - Re: AOPA magazine (Kelly McMullen) 33. 02:03 PM - Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (orchidman) 34. 02:03 PM - Re: AOPA magazine (David McNeill) 35. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Chris and Susie) 36. 02:19 PM - Re: RV10-List Digest: Aveo landing lights () 37. 02:42 PM - Re: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Bill Mauledriver Watson) 38. 03:08 PM - Re: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Rene Felker) 39. 03:25 PM - Re: Re: RV10-List Digest: Aveo landing lights (Seano) 40. 03:45 PM - Re: RV10-List Digest: Aveo landing lights (woxofswa) 41. 04:26 PM - Re: Re: RV10-List Digest: Aveo landing lights (Robin Marks) 42. 04:52 PM - Re: Re: RV10-List Digest: Aveo landing lights (Seano) 43. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (John Cumins) 44. 06:16 PM - Re: AOPA magazine (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 45. 06:44 PM - Re: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Bill Mauledriver Watson) 46. 06:55 PM - Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Don McDonald) 47. 07:23 PM - Re: AOPA magazine (Miller John) 48. 08:42 PM - Re: AOPA magazine (David McNeill) 49. 08:49 PM - Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Deems Davis) 50. 10:18 PM - Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering -Copperstate !! (woxofswa) 51. 11:26 PM - Re: AOPA magazine (Robin Marks) 52. 11:46 PM - Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Robin Marks) 53. 11:46 PM - Re: AOPA magazine (John Cox) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:41 AM PST US From: Miller John Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine AOPA should have done the article on Tim....... And wonder if Peeler got a repairman's certificate as well? grumpy N184JM do not archive On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time > or skills". I mean, I had a 2 and 4 year old kid to raise, and > I took the time. I also didn't have any prior airplane building > experience, and experimental planes are for EDUCATION and > recreation....so you're supposed to LEARN the skills along > the way. So to me, it's a cop out when someone just > says they're too busy or don't know how. There are people > that take 1 year, and people that take 6 or 10 years to > complete their homebuilt...and most of them can then > take the pride that they indeed did build it. > > Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone > said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they > have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know > how to do it. And, they didn't really want to take things > apart very far to get to the parts in question. I pondered > that for a minute....now, not only did the guy buy the > plane, but he doesn't have the ambition to learn and take > it apart to do proper maintenance and wants to slide through > as simple as possible on that, too. What a shame. Wouldn't > it be better to grab the plans and tear into it, and > learn about how the plane is built at least? What a > shame, the level of concern we sometimes show for gathering > knowledge. > > To me, I was happy to see RV-10's held in high regard by > AOPA's magazine, but I really think they went down the > wrong path using an example of the plane that wasn't > being flown by the actual builder. It's nice press > coverage, but really, it's a homebuilt plane, and > it would be nice if an honest to goodness homebuilder > could share their even greater joy and regard for the > process, and how much it enriched their life and experience. > Not knocking anyone in particular with that...it's just > that really, it's a nice plane and all, but it's the > complete understanding, attention to detail, ultra > care in maintenance and quality, and that sort of thing > that sets us apart. The plane itself can be far better > than most certified planes, simply due to the fact that > an honest to goodness homebuilder "Repairman" can > do improvements that FAA regs would handicap them > from being able to accomplish if it were certified...at > least without tons of paperwork. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > > Dave Saylor wrote: >> >>Peeler, a physician, said he doesnt have the time or skills to >> build an airplane like the RV10, which requires at least 2,000 >> hours for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies >> with the letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his >> aircraft for private, noncommercial purposes and hiring >> professional mechanics to perform the required inspections. >> Im not the builder of this airplane and I dont pretend to be, >> he said.<< >> http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430WP >> He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and >> had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the >> 8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do... >> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:50 PM, > >> wrote: >> Nice RV-10 write up in the Aopa magazine-interesting comment re >> oil >> temps >> Dave Saylor >> AirCrafters LLC >> 140 Aviation Way >> Watsonville, CA 95076 >> 831-722-9141 Shop >> 831-750-0284 Cell > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:49 AM PST US From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: 40G I was at 00V (Meadowlake, just north of Colorado Springs, CO) in late June and had 2 large people (440), full fuel (360), about 35 pounds in back. Th is was before my plane was in paint so empty wt was 1654 for a GW of 2489. Field elevation is 6874 and DA was 11,200! Runway at 00V is 6000x60. ht tp://www.airnav.com/airport/00V Bob N442PM ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 7:43 PM Subject: RV10-List: 40G I O540D4A5 Hartzell constant speed. Anybody done one like this? airplane is 1666, 3 people is 600, 32 gal is 192, 40 pounds of tools. total 2500 pounds, elevation 6000, temp probably 90f. DA9500. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:22 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Question on Control Cables & FAB From: "jayb" Thanks John. Differences between the tables make perfect sense once thread count is taken into consideration. The control cables all use the same AN316 nuts. Don't know if they are shear nuts however. Just fyi that if you ordered Vans throttle quadrant, you'll need extra -43 lock washers as they only include enough for the FWF ends. Regards, Jay johngoodman wrote: > Jay, > Just to muddy the water a little (g), The Standard Aircraft Handbook table on page 160 Shows 450-500 inch-pounds for a 7/16-20 with an AN315 nut, while an AN316 Shear Nut is only 270-300 inch-pounds. I believe you are tightening an AN316, right? > Also, Coarse thread 7/16-14 are even less, but I'm pretty sure yours is -20. > John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259932#259932 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:08 AM PST US From: Robert Brunkenhoefer Subject: Re: RV10-List: 40G I have departed SRR. Ruidoso,nm . At that wt. Same DA 6800' el . Mt prop 8000' runway. Off@ middle so it is doable. Lean for da and do mountain flying prep. Robert Brunkenhoefer. N 661G long trips and loving it. 150+ hrs Sent from my iPhone Robert E. Brunkenhoefer Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C. 520 Lawrence St. Corpus Christi, Texas 78401 Phone: 361-888-8808 Facsimile: 361-888-6753 robert@brunklaw.com On Aug 26, 2009, at 7:46 PM, Miller John wrote: > Best have a VERY long runway! > > On Aug 26, 2009, at 7:42 PM, David McNeill wrote: > >> >> >> I O540D4A5 Hartzell constant speed. Anybody done one like this? >> >> airplane is 1666, 3 people is 600, 32 gal is 192, 40 pounds of >> tools. total 2500 pounds, elevation 6000, temp probably 90f. DA9500. >> >> >> =================================== >> tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> =================================== >> nics.com >> =================================== >> w.matronics.com/contribution >> =================================== >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:08 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Big Iron Envy From: "Robin Marks" UGF0LA0KDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgTm90IHN1cmUgaWYgeW91IGFyZSBhc2tpbmcgbWUgYWJv dXQg4oCcc3dpdGNoaW5n4oCdIG9yIOKAnHdpcmluZ+KAnSBidXQgdGhlIHdpcmluZyBpcyBzdHJh aWdodCBmb3J3YXJkIGFzIHdlIGZvbGxvd2VkIHRoZSBpbnN0cnVjdGlvbnMgaW5jbHVkZWQgaW4g dGhlIFhlUHVsc2UgdW5pdC4gQXMgZmFyIGFzIHRoZSBzd2l0Y2hpbmcgZ29lcyBteSBMYW5kaW5n IExpZ2h0IHN3aXRjaCBpcyBhIDMgcG9zaXRpb24gT2ZmLCBPbiwgV2lnL1dhZy4gSSBzZXQgdXAg bXkgc3dpdGNoZXMgc28gdGhhdCB0aGUgZm91ciBzd2l0Y2hlcyBJIHdhbnQgb24gZm9yIFRha2Ug T2ZmL0xhbmRpbmcvR28gQXJvdW5kIGFyZSBhbGwgdG9nZXRoZXIgRnVlbCBQdW1wL1dpZ1dhZyBM 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PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PSAgICANCg0KIA0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KDQpGaW5kIGxv Y2FsIGJ1c2luZXNzZXMgYW5kIHNlcnZpY2VzIGluIHlvdXIgYXJlYSB3aXRoIFlhaG9vITcgTG9j YWwuIEdldCBzdGFydGVkLg0KDQo ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:37 AM PST US From: "Pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine I feel frustrated that the opportunity to showcase the RV-10 was done the way it was. I wrote a letter to Dave and told him so. I would encourage many to let Dave know how you feel. I believe he did a disservice to the RV-10 community, the EAA and his readers by using such a poor example for Builders. As an outsider I would think I was reading about a "build to suit" aircraft not a homebuilt, the experience of building was completely lost in this by "not having time or skills" as Tim says who does?? this is for education and that usually takes time to learn the skill. Mosty of us will agree, Tim or even Jesse Saint and his efforts to teach Equadorian folks a trade via the RV-10 would have been much better way to discuss a "homebuilt" aircraft. Pascal From: Dave Saylor Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:20 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine Tim, I was saying to myself, as I thumbed to the AOPA article, I hope it's Tim...but no. Oh well. Geez, the timing couldn't be worse, since we're all waiting to see what FAA finally decides regarding 51%. I'm pretty sure they're NOT gonna say it's OK to violate the rule as long as you keep the operation non-commercial... And although I for one am glad some people don't have the skills required (thereby generating my paycheck...), I agree that it is tiresome to hear about people who blatantly violate the rules. Somehow worse when they put it in black and white. Worse than that is when our #2 lobbying organization puts it in black and white for them, and either looks the other way or doesn't know the difference. C'mon, AOPA. Dave On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote: I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time or skills". I mean, I had a 2 and 4 year old kid to raise, and I took the time. I also didn't have any prior airplane building experience, and experimental planes are for EDUCATION and recreation....so you're supposed to LEARN the skills along the way. So to me, it's a cop out when someone just says they're too busy or don't know how. There are people that take 1 year, and people that take 6 or 10 years to complete their homebuilt...and most of them can then take the pride that they indeed did build it. Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know how to do it. And, they didn't really want to take things apart very far to get to the parts in question. I pondered that for a minute....now, not only did the guy buy the plane, but he doesn't have the ambition to learn and take it apart to do proper maintenance and wants to slide through as simple as possible on that, too. What a shame. Wouldn't it be better to grab the plans and tear into it, and learn about how the plane is built at least? What a shame, the level of concern we sometimes show for gathering knowledge. To me, I was happy to see RV-10's held in high regard by AOPA's magazine, but I really think they went down the wrong path using an example of the plane that wasn't being flown by the actual builder. It's nice press coverage, but really, it's a homebuilt plane, and it would be nice if an honest to goodness homebuilder could share their even greater joy and regard for the process, and how much it enriched their life and experience. Not knocking anyone in particular with that...it's just that really, it's a nice plane and all, but it's the complete understanding, attention to detail, ultra care in maintenance and quality, and that sort of thing that sets us apart. The plane itself can be far better than most certified planes, simply due to the fact that an honest to goodness homebuilder "Repairman" can do improvements that FAA regs would handicap them from being able to accomplish if it were certified...at least without tons of paperwork. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Dave Saylor wrote: >>Peeler, a physician, said he doesn=92t have the time or skills to build an airplane like the RV'10, which requires at least 2,000 hours for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies with the letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his aircraft for private, noncommercial purposes and hiring professional mechanics to perform the required inspections. =93I=92m not the builder of this airplane and I don=92t pretend to be,=94 he said.<< http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=43 0WP He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the 8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do... On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:50 PM, > wrote: Nice RV-10 write up in the Aopa magazine-interesting comment re oil temps Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell ========== arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== -- Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:04 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine It's not about me.... I'd love to see Scott, Vic, or anyone who's out really USING their RV-10 for some good trips be in an article. I write enough of my own garbage. :) I just really think that if there's going to be an article about a homebuilt, it should show the very good parts about the entire process, the airplane, and why it's so good. IMHO, homebuilts have the best potential to be very very safe planes, especially when they're cared for by the person who is really in love with their creation. As I lease this Cherokee I'm continually annoyed by the concept that if I could only dig in and do all the work on it without such restriction, I could correct so many deficiencies in safety. Under the cowl that plane is a mess, compared to the average RV-10, yet it's still airworthy once it's in the hands of an A&P with a pen. So we have opportunities to really have a world where mechanical issues are just not really existent on any real level...because we are the builder...we are the repairman. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Miller John wrote: > > AOPA should have done the article on Tim....... > > And wonder if Peeler got a repairman's certificate as well? > > grumpy > N184JM > > do not archive > > On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > >> >> I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time >> or skills". I mean, I had a 2 and 4 year old kid to raise, and >> I took the time. I also didn't have any prior airplane building >> experience, and experimental planes are for EDUCATION and >> recreation....so you're supposed to LEARN the skills along >> the way. So to me, it's a cop out when someone just >> says they're too busy or don't know how. There are people >> that take 1 year, and people that take 6 or 10 years to >> complete their homebuilt...and most of them can then >> take the pride that they indeed did build it. >> >> Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone >> said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they >> have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know >> how to do it. And, they didn't really want to take things >> apart very far to get to the parts in question. I pondered >> that for a minute....now, not only did the guy buy the >> plane, but he doesn't have the ambition to learn and take >> it apart to do proper maintenance and wants to slide through >> as simple as possible on that, too. What a shame. Wouldn't >> it be better to grab the plans and tear into it, and >> learn about how the plane is built at least? What a >> shame, the level of concern we sometimes show for gathering >> knowledge. >> >> To me, I was happy to see RV-10's held in high regard by >> AOPA's magazine, but I really think they went down the >> wrong path using an example of the plane that wasn't >> being flown by the actual builder. It's nice press >> coverage, but really, it's a homebuilt plane, and >> it would be nice if an honest to goodness homebuilder >> could share their even greater joy and regard for the >> process, and how much it enriched their life and experience. >> Not knocking anyone in particular with that...it's just >> that really, it's a nice plane and all, but it's the >> complete understanding, attention to detail, ultra >> care in maintenance and quality, and that sort of thing >> that sets us apart. The plane itself can be far better >> than most certified planes, simply due to the fact that >> an honest to goodness homebuilder "Repairman" can >> do improvements that FAA regs would handicap them >> from being able to accomplish if it were certified...at >> least without tons of paperwork. >> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD >> do not archive >> >> >> Dave Saylor wrote: >>> >>Peeler, a physician, said he doesnt have the time or skills to >>> build an airplane like the RV10, which requires at least 2,000 hours >>> for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies with the >>> letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his aircraft for >>> private, noncommercial purposes and hiring professional mechanics to >>> perform the required inspections. >>> Im not the builder of this airplane and I dont pretend to be, he >>> said.<< >>> http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430WP >>> >>> He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and >>> had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the >>> 8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do... >>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:50 PM, >> > wrote: >>> Nice RV-10 write up in the Aopa magazine-interesting comment re oil >>> temps >>> Dave Saylor >>> AirCrafters LLC >>> 140 Aviation Way >>> Watsonville, CA 95076 >>> 831-722-9141 Shop >>> 831-750-0284 Cell >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:19 AM PST US From: Robert Brunkenhoefer Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? i agree but has anyone thought about a gathering in texas? south padre island, matamoris,mex. , brownsville. gulf of mexico. port isabel airport. robert On Aug 26, 2009, at 9:13 PM, richard sipp wrote: > > Great ideas Deems, > > I would like to see an RV-10 dedicated fly in at a different > location each year, someplace that would also provide interest to > the rest of our family members. > > The Ohio Valley RVators, much like the SoCal group started as an > email list has grown to several hundred and flys somewhere in this > area nearly every weekend. > > Dick Sipp > N110DV > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deems Davis" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:09 AM > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A > Gathering ???? > > >> >> I like this idea ... RV10 gathering/s. OSH is definitely a great >> gathering, but I'd love to see if there's any interest in getting >> together somewhere with some other builder/flyers. I think the >> biggest attraction to OSH for me is just getting to visit with >> other similarly 'infected' types. >> >> I monitor the SoCal RV list, and they routinely have several posts >> each week where several people connect and either meet somewhere or >> fly somewhere together. I realize we're spread across the US and >> the logistics are greatly expanded, but it would be nice if we >> developed into the kind of group that routinely met and flew >> together either regionally or otherwise. >> >> What if people just used this list to post ideas about where, who, >> and when they would like to take a trip with some others? and let >> people naturally connect? If it turns out to be a benefit, who know >> someone might set up part of a website as an " I want to take a >> trip' bulletin board. >> >> Deems Davis N519PJ >> http://deemsrv10.com/index.html >> >> Tim Olson wrote: >>> >>> I just do it to try to get you all to finish up so we can have >>> some great RV-10 gatherings. :) >>> Tim >>> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:42 AM PST US From: "Pascal" Subject: RV10-List: Fw: The honeymooners- response from Dave FYI on the AOPA article From: Hirschman, Dave Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:14 AM Subject: RE: The honeymooners Dear Pascal, Thanks for your e-mail, and your suggestion of Tim Olson. I've read his blogs and trip reports and enjoy them very much! The decision to feature an RV-10 owned by a non-builder was done with AOPA demographics in mind. A large percentage of our membership would never consider owning an Experimental airplane, let alone build one. The article was meant to show that some Experimental designs, like the RV-10, are thoroughly mainstream and highly useful (as well as exceptionally fun) airplanes. Hopefully, some readers will do as you suggest and buy someone else's completed airplane -- or build one . . . Warm Regards, Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: Pascal [mailto:rv10builder@verizon.net] Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:06 AM Subject: Re: The honeymooners Dave; I enjoy reading your articles but I must admit my excitement when I saw the Van's RV-10 on the September cover quickly turned to disappointment when I read the story. There are so many great stories of builders out there that are doing what the EAA designed in the late 1940; using building an aircraft to be for recreation and education. Your story on the Peelers did exactly the opposite. If Dr Peeler "doesn't have the time or skills to build an airplane". He should have considered a certified plane or someone else's completed RV-10. Home built aircraft are supposed to be built at Home not a professional's hangar. The EAA has spend numerous hours with volunteers like Dick Van Grunsven to work on the 51% rule for those who actually want to take the time to learn the skills. Your builder example did everything in writing to hurt that effort. Should you ever decide to do another article on a RV-10, consider getting a real builder who has done much for the RV-10 community. His name is Tim Olson Thank you! Pascal Reid ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:36 AM PST US From: Patrick Thyssen Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine Tim, =C2-Maybe it's the owner who wants their plane to look like shit and not pay an honest amount of money to fix it. You can always find some one to do work and sighn it off. But its the owner who has to say do it right. And Pay. Patrick Thyssen A&P I don't carry 100 lbs of tools in my planes and neither do my customers. --- On Thu, 8/27/09, Tim Olson wrote: From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine It's not about me.... I'd love to see Scott, Vic, or anyone who's out really USING their RV-10 for some good trips be in an article. I write enough of my own garbage. :)=C2- I just really think that if there's going to be an article about a homebuilt, it should show the very good parts about the entire process, the airplane, and why it's so good.=C2- IMHO, homebuilts have the best potential to be very very safe planes, especially when they're cared for by the person who is really in love with their creation.=C2- As I lease this Cherokee I'm continually annoyed by the concept that if I could only dig in and do all the work on it without such restriction, I could correct so many deficiencies in safety.=C2- Under the cowl that plane is a mess, compared to the average RV-10, yet it's still airworthy once it's in the hands of an A&P with a pen. So we have opportunities to really have a world where mechanical issues are just not really existent on any real level...because we are the builder...we are the repairman. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Miller John wrote: > > AOPA should have done the article on Tim....... > > And wonder if Peeler got a repairman's certificate as well? > > grumpy > N184JM > > do not archive > > On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > >> >> I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time >> or skills".=C2- I mean, I had a 2 and 4 year old kid to raise, and >> I took the time.=C2- I also didn't have any prior airplane building >> experience, and experimental planes are for EDUCATION and >> recreation....so you're supposed to LEARN the skills along >> the way.=C2- So to me, it's a cop out when someone just >> says they're too busy or don't know how.=C2- There are people >> that take 1 year, and people that take 6 or 10 years to >> complete their homebuilt...and most of them can then >> take the pride that they indeed did build it. >> >> Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone >> said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they >> have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know >> how to do it. And, they didn't really want to take things >> apart very far to get to the parts in question.=C2- I pondered >> that for a minute....now, not only did the guy buy the >> plane, but he doesn't have the ambition to learn and take >> it apart to do proper maintenance and wants to slide through >> as simple as possible on that, too.=C2- What a shame.=C2- Wouldn't >> it be better to grab the plans and tear into it, and >> learn about how the plane is built at least?=C2- What a >> shame, the level of concern we sometimes show for gathering >> knowledge. >> >> To me, I was happy to see RV-10's held in high regard by >> AOPA's magazine, but I really think they went down the >> wrong path using an example of the plane that wasn't >> being flown by the actual builder.=C2- It's nice press >> coverage, but really, it's a homebuilt plane, and >> it would be nice if an honest to goodness homebuilder >> could share their even greater joy and regard for the >> process, and how much it enriched their life and experience. >> Not knocking anyone in particular with that...it's just >> that really, it's a nice plane and all, but it's the >> complete understanding, attention to detail, ultra >> care in maintenance and quality, and that sort of thing >> that sets us apart.=C2- The plane itself can be far better >> than most certified planes, simply due to the fact that >> an honest to goodness homebuilder "Repairman" can >> do improvements that FAA regs would handicap them >> from being able to accomplish if it were certified...at >> least without tons of paperwork. >> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD >> do not archive >> >> >> Dave Saylor wrote: >>> >>Peeler, a physician, said he doesn=99t have the time or skills to build an airplane like the RV=9310, which requires at least 2,000 hours for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies with the l etter and spirit of the regulations by only using his aircraft for private, noncommercial purposes and hiring professional mechanics to perform the re quired inspections. >>> =9CI=99m not the builder of this airplane and I don =99t pretend to be,=9D he said.<< >>> http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt= 430WP >>> He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the 8130-12.=C2- H e may have some 'splain'n to do... >>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:50 PM, > wrote: >>>=C2- =C2- Nice RV-10 write up in the Aopa magazine-interesting comme nt re oil >>>=C2- =C2- temps >>> Dave Saylor >>> AirCrafters LLC >>> 140 Aviation Way >>> Watsonville, CA 95076 >>> 831-722-9141 Shop >>> 831-750-0284 Cell >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > S WEB FORUMS - on Web Site - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:55 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? From: "orchidman" After I get my plane back from the paint shop I want to start looking for a good airport in the Ozarks (Eastern OK, Western AR, and MO) That would put it within a -10 tank of gas for everyone within the circle from TX, NM, the Dakotas, WI, OH, and GA which would be most of the central US. I am sure others can do it for the western and eastern areas also. Come in on a Saturday and leave by noon on Sunday. -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259963#259963 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:42 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? One thing I see lots of is that people like to fly to things in their own backyards, but they don't always want to go somewhere further. (with the normal exception of OSH) I find it funny that I know a lot of builders on the East Coast who go all over the East, but seldom consider going West of the Rockies. Then I know a lot of folks West of the Rockies and they've never been out East. Same when you divide North from South. Personally, I think people should use these "magic carpets" to shrink their world a little bit further and not be afraid to venture from coast to coast, even for a good fly-in. I added a day of just hanging out in my last Oregon trip, yet did that trip as what basically was designed to be a 4 day weekend. Last fall we did the East Coast and flew NYC's hudson in a 4 day trip. You can do an awful lot with 4 or 5 days, so I say, go enjoy the sky for a while. The RV-10 really makes it possible to be ANYWHERE in the continental US with a fairly easy 2 days of flying. So get out of your own backyard and go visit somewhere else...there's just so much to see and experience! We're still needing to get to the central South states, so over the next year or two that's going to be on our list. Then we'll go revisit them all. :) Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive orchidman wrote: > > After I get my plane back from the paint shop I want to start looking for a good airport in the Ozarks (Eastern OK, Western AR, and MO) > That would put it within a -10 tank of gas for everyone within the circle from TX, NM, the Dakotas, WI, OH, and GA which would be most of the central US. > I am sure others can do it for the western and eastern areas also. > Come in on a Saturday and leave by noon on Sunday. > > -------- > Gary Blankenbiller > RV10 - # 40674 > (N2GB Flying) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259963#259963 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:04 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOPA magazine From: "John Cox" U29tZSBBJlBzIHVzZSB0aGVpciBwZW4gdG8gZG9jdW1lbnQgZGlzY3JlcGFuY2llcy4gIFRoZSBB JlAgd2hvIHNpZ25zIGl0ICJBaXJ3b3J0aHkgYW5kIFNhZmUgZm9yIFJldHVybiB0byBGbGlnaHQi IGlzIG9ubHkgZG9pbmcgc28gYXQgYSBnbGltcHNlIG9mIHRpbWUgYWdhaW5zdCBhIGRvY3VtZW50 ZWQgYW5kIGNvbnNpc3RlbnQgVENEUyBzdGFuZGFyZC4gIFRoZSBGQVIgc2F5cyBpdOKAmXMgdGhl IG9wZXJhdG9yIHdobyBhc3N1bWVzIEFsbCBhbmQgZmluYWwgcmVzcG9uc2liaWxpdHkgZm9yIGFu IGFpcmNyYWZ0IHBsYWNlZCBpbiBmbGlnaHQgYXMgQWlyd29ydGh5LiAgSWYgYSBkaXNjcmVwYW5j eSBpcyBub3RlZCBieSBhbiBPcGVyYXRvciwgaXQgaXMgdGhlIG9wZXJhdG9yIHdobyBuZWVkcyB0 byBpbmZvcm0gdGhlIFJlbnRlci9Pd25lciBhcyB3ZWxsIGFzIGEgcmVjZXB0aXZlIEEmUCBhbmQg dGhlbiBub3QgbGF1bmNoIHRoZSB0aGluZy4NCg0KIA0KDQpXaGF0IHdlIGRvIGhhdmUgaXMgYSBy YXBpZGx5IGFnaW5nIGZsZWV0LiAgQSBzbWFsbGVyIG5ldyBmbGVldCB0aGF0IGlzIHdlbGwgYmV5 b25kIHRoZSBmaW5hbmNpYWwgcmVhY2ggb2YgbW9zdCBhbmQgbm93IGFuIEFPUEEgYXJ0aWNsZSB0 aGF0IHNheXMgdGhvc2Ugd2l0aCBtb25leSBjYW4gaGF2ZSB0aG9zZSB3aXRoIHRhbGVudCwgYnVp bGQgdGhlbSBhbiBhaXJjcmFmdCB0aGF0IHRoZXkgY2VydGlmeSB0aGUgZ3V5IHdpdGggbW9uZXkg aGFkIGJ1aWx0IGZvciBOb24gQ29tbWVyY2lhbCBFbmpveW1lbnQuICBXZSBhbHNvIGhhdmUgYW4g YWdpbmcgcGlsb3QgYmFzZSBhbmQgYSBkd2luZGxpbmcgbnVtYmVyIG9mIGN1c3RvbWVycyB0byBz dXBwb3J0IHF1YWxpdHkgQSZQIHNlcnZpY2VzLg0KDQogDQoNClRoZXJlIGlzIG5vdGhpbmcgd3Jv bmcgd2l0aCBhbiBPQkFNIGFpcmNyYWZ0IGluIHRoZSBoYW5kcyBvZiBhIHBhc3Npb25hdGUgYW5k IHJlY2VwdGl2ZSBvcGVyYXRvci4NCg0KIA0KDQpKb2huDQoNCmRvIG5vdCBhcmNoaXZlDQoNCiAN Cg0KRnJvbTogb3duZXItcnYxMC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIFttYWlsdG86b3du ZXItcnYxMC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgUGF0cmljayBU aHlzc2VuDQpTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgQXVndXN0IDI3LCAyMDA5IDk6MjMgQU0NClRvOiBydjEw LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFJWMTAtTGlzdDogQU9QQSBtYWdhemlu ZQ0KDQogDQoNCg= ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:23 AM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? Branson MO? We've got a couple of days @ a time share reserved there sometime in OCT Deems orchidman wrote: > > After I get my plane back from the paint shop I want to start looking for a good airport in the Ozarks (Eastern OK, Western AR, and MO) > That would put it within a -10 tank of gas for everyone within the circle from TX, NM, the Dakotas, WI, OH, and GA which would be most of the central US. > I am sure others can do it for the western and eastern areas also. > Come in on a Saturday and leave by noon on Sunday. > > -------- > Gary Blankenbiller > RV10 - # 40674 > (N2GB Flying) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259963#259963 > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:36 AM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fw: The honeymooners- response from Dave He totally skirted the issue that will caus e the most uproar. The fact tha t the owner did not build the aircraft and obviously falsified the paperwor k for the airworthiness certificate. Demographics my butt.....political con nections within the AOPA and the airshow circut determined the selection, I 'm wondering if any enforcment action will come from this....I did like the article though...makes it easier for me to sell mine when the time comes, but regardless of who owns it, the data plate will always say Manufacturer: Rick Sked.....Now where did I put that hold harmless agreement??? Rick Sked N246RS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pascal" Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:47:54 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RV10-List: Fw: The honeymooners- response from Dave FYI on the AOPA article From: Hirschman, Dave Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:14 AM Subject: RE: The honeymooners Dear Pascal, Thanks for your e-mail, and your suggestion of Tim Olson. I've read his blo gs and trip reports and enjoy them very much! The decision to feature an RV-10 owned by a non-builder was done with AOPA demographics in mind.=C2-A large percentage of our membership would never consider owning an Experimental airplane, let alone build one. The article was meant to show that some Experimental designs, like the RV-10, are thor oughly mainstream and highly useful (as well as exceptionally fun) airplane s. Hopefully, some readers will do as you suggest and buy someone else's co mpleted airplane -- or=C2-build one . . . Warm Regards, Dave From: Pascal [mailto:rv10builder@verizon.net] Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:06 AM Subject: Re: The honeymooners Dave; I enjoy reading your articles but I must admit my excitement when I saw the =C2- Van's RV-10 on the September cover quickly turned to disappointment when I read the story. There are so many great stories of builders out ther e that are doing what the EAA designed in the late 1940; using building an aircraft to be for recreation and education. Your story on the Peelers did exactly the opposite. If Dr Peeler "doesn't have the time or skills to buil d an airplane". He should have=C2-considered a certified plane or someone else's completed RV-10. Home built aircraft are supposed to be built at Ho me not a professional's hangar. The EAA has spend numerous hours with volun teers like Dick Van Grunsven to work on the 51% rule for those who actually want to take the time to learn the skills. Your builder example did everyt hing in writing to hurt that effort. Should you ever decide to do another article on a RV-10, consider getting a real builder who has done much for the RV-10 community. His name is Tim Ol son Thank you! Pascal Reid == ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:44 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine Very true. I'm sure lots of A&P's just cringe at some customers because they know the guy will just want it done cheap...because work costs money. There's always that tendency to say "Can you fix it, and what's the most economical way to finish this?"....as opposed to "Can you fix this and I'd like to see it fixed as good as we can so that we never have to deal with this type of issue again...i'd like it like new or better". But you're absolutely right...the owners are the ones who have to step up...even in our homebuilder groups. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Patrick Thyssen wrote: > Tim, > Maybe it's the owner who wants their plane to look like shit and not > pay an honest amount of money to fix it. You can always find some one to > do work and sighn it off. > But its the owner who has to say do it right. And Pay. > Patrick Thyssen > A&P > I don't carry 100 lbs of tools in my planes and neither do my customers. > > --- On *Thu, 8/27/09, Tim Olson //* wrote: > > > From: Tim Olson > Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 10:11 AM > > > > > It's not about me.... I'd love to see Scott, Vic, or > anyone who's out really USING their RV-10 for some > good trips be in an article. I write enough of my > own garbage. :) I just really think that if there's > going to be an article about a homebuilt, it should > show the very good parts about the entire process, > the airplane, and why it's so good. IMHO, homebuilts > have the best potential to be very very safe planes, > especially when they're cared for by the person who > is really in love with their creation. As I lease > this Cherokee I'm continually annoyed by the concept > that if I could only dig in and do all the work on it > without such restriction, I could correct so many > deficiencies in safety. Under the cowl that plane > is a mess, compared to the average RV-10, yet it's > still airworthy once it's in the hands of an A&P > with a pen. So we have opportunities to really > have a world where mechanical issues are just not > really existent on any real level...because we > are the builder...we are the repairman. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > > Miller John wrote: > > > > > > AOPA should have done the article on Tim....... > > > > And wonder if Peeler got a repairman's certificate as well? > > > > grumpy > > N184JM > > > > do not archive > > > > On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > > > > >> > >> I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time > >> or skills". I mean, I had a 2 and 4 year old kid to raise, and > >> I took the time. I also didn't have any prior airplane building > >> experience, and experimental planes are for EDUCATION and > >> recreation....so you're supposed to LEARN the skills along > >> the way. So to me, it's a cop out when someone just > >> says they're too busy or don't know how. There are people > >> that take 1 year, and people that take 6 or 10 years to > >> complete their homebuilt...and most of them can then > >> take the pride that they indeed did build it. > >> > >> Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone > >> said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they > >> have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know > >> how to do it. And, they didn't really want to take things > >> apart very far to get to the parts in question. I pondered > >> that for a minute....now, not only did the guy buy the > >> plane, but he doesn't have the ambition to learn and take > >> it apart to do proper maintenance and wants to slide through > >> as simple as possible on that, too. What a shame. Wouldn't > >> it be better to grab the plans and tear into it, and > >> learn about how the plane is built at least? What a > >> shame, the level of concern we sometimes show for gathering > >> knowledge. > >> > >> To me, I was happy to see RV-10's held in high regard by > >> AOPA's magazine, but I really think they went down the > >> wrong path using an example of the plane that wasn't > >> being flown by the actual builder. It's nice press > >> coverage, but really, it's a homebuilt plane, and > >> it would be nice if an honest to goodness homebuilder > >> could share their even greater joy and regard for the > >> process, and how much it enriched their life and experience. > >> Not knocking anyone in particular with that...it's just > >> that really, it's a nice plane and all, but it's the > >> complete understanding, attention to detail, ultra > >> care in maintenance and quality, and that sort of thing > >> that sets us apart. The plane itself can be far better > >> than most certified planes, simply due to the fact that > >> an honest to goodness homebuilder "Repairman" can > >> do improvements that FAA regs would handicap them > >> from being able to accomplish if it were certified...at > >> least without tons of paperwork. > >> > >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > >> do not archive > >> > >> > >> Dave Saylor wrote: > >>> >>Peeler, a physician, said he doesnt have the time or skills > to build an airplane like the RV10, which requires at least 2,000 > hours for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies > with the letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his > aircraft for private, noncommercial purposes and hiring professional > mechanics to perform the required inspections. > >>> Im not the builder of this airplane and I dont pretend to > be, he said.<< > >>> > http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430WP > > >>> He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, > and had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the > 8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do... > >>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:50 PM, >> wrote: > >>> Nice RV-10 write up in the Aopa magazine-interesting comment > re oil > >>> temps > >>> Dave Saylor > >>> AirCrafters LLC > >>> 140 Aviation Way > >>> Watsonville, CA 95076 > >>> 831-722-9141 Shop > >>> 831-750-0284 Cell > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-L; - MATRONICS > WEB FORUMS -*http://ww====================== > > > > * > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:05 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOPA magazine From: "John Cox" Dr. Peeler holds a recent Commercial with Instrument ticket and has authorizations for TBMs and T-33 but doesn't show a Repairman cert for his fine AOPA magazined Raddatz built aircraft. This is similar to Scott Gustafson's and ten other Raddatz builds that are flying. With the final interpretation about to be chiseled in granite by the Fed, the 51% rule is allowing many RV-10s built by Professionals to be purchased and flown by individuals of means and the passion to join this group of flying RV-10's. As Tony Soprano would say on the subject of caring not in the feeding a maintenance of such birds.... Forgetaboutit. There are many who say they did the work of others or color their prose a bit to get the airworthiness. It was light years ago that a ragtag group of Yahoo fans migrated here in hopes of a builder forum for RV-10 builders. Our insurance pool will soon be made up of the wide swath of interested RV-10 operators (some not builders). Unless an insurance company creates a better financial deal for an improved gene pool of "builder" aircraft, we become a product of our own success with well financed Dr. Peeler's of the RV-10 community. AOPA reported in the article 100 completed and another 1000 sold. My numbers are just a bit off that projection. Flying 128/ Sold 983 leaving 755 of us out in the cold lusting after the first group that's flying with all those stories and romantic getaways. I concur that AOPA and EAA should both do an article on the raising and feeding of the Olson clan while completing N104CD. Can anyone trump Tim's accomplishments on the RV-10? John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Miller John Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:08 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine AOPA should have done the article on Tim....... And wonder if Peeler got a repairman's certificate as well? grumpy N184JM do not archive On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time > or skills". > Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone > said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they > have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know > how to do it. > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > > Dave Saylor wrote: >> >>Peeler, a physician, said he doesn't have the time or skills to >> build an airplane like the RV-10, which requires at least 2,000 >> hours for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies >> with the letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his >> aircraft for private, noncommercial purposes and hiring >> professional mechanics to perform the required inspections. >> "I'm not the builder of this airplane and I don't pretend to be," >> he said.<< >> http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430 WP >> He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and >> had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the >> 8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do... >> Dave Saylor >> AirCrafters LLC >> 140 Aviation Way >> Watsonville, CA 95076 >> 831-722-9141 Shop >> 831-750-0284 Cell > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:23 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Article From: Dave Saylor Thank you, Dave. That's a reasonable and completely acceptable explanation. FWIW, there are a lot of people who are concerned about people intending to get around the rules, and this looked for all the world like one of those cases. A line or two to set things straight might have been interesting and informative to your audience. How about an article specifically addressing "second owner" ins and outs? Thanks again, Dave Saylor On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Hirschman, Dave wrote: > Dear David Saylor, > > Thanks very much for your e-mail and sharing your concerns about this > airplane. > I can assure you that David Peeler doesn't have the repairman's certificate > on this airplane. He bought it from the builder (who is now deceased). > The point of the RV-10 story was to highlight the tremendous utility and > capability of some Experimental category aircraft, even for non-builders > like David and Amy Peeler. My parents built a VariEze, and I'm an RV-3 > owner, so I'm a big fan of the Experimental category . . . > Warm Regards, > > Dave Hirschman > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Dave Saylor [mailto:dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:41 PM > *To:* Hirschman, Dave > *Subject:* Fwd: RV-10 Article > > Dear Mr. Hirschman, > > I'm a 24-year AOPA member and an RV-10 builder/owner. I own and operate a > builder assistance center for amateur built aircraft, and I served on the > FAA's recent committee to review what is commonly known as the 51% rule. > > I think you did a disservice to RV-10 builders specifically and all amateur > builders in general by printing certain quotes from David Peeler. Without > any valid explanation of the rule, you left the impression that Dr. Peeler > had someone build his plane. Yet, a quick check of the registration > database clearly lists him as the manufacturer, but he claims he doesn't > "pretend to be" the builder...something's fishy. > > There's nothing wrong with selling a plane that you built, as long as your > intentions were correct. And there's nothing wrong with hiring out certain > parts of the project. But in this case there's clearly more to the story, > and not knowing what it is or how it was addressed leaves a black mark. > > I hope you can clear up the discrepancy. I'm not the only one who noticed. > > Sincerely, > > Dave Saylor > AirCrafters LLC > 140 Aviation Way > Watsonville, CA 95076 > 831-722-9141 Shop > 831-750-0284 Cell > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:26 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Article From: Dave Saylor Dave, I copied my last reply to you to a bunch of RV-10 types on Matronics. You said the builder passed away, and implied that the plane was amateur built...now I'm hearing that it was Steve Raddatz. Yes, he is deceased, but he was also a professional builder who it seems did not share your concern about abuse of the AB category. So I stand by my original statement and I think I'll shut up for a while before I make myself a bigger fool. Dave Saylor On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Hirschman, Dave wrote: > Dear Dave Saylor, > I share your concerns about abuse of the Experimental category, and your > point about explicitly spelling out the ownership trail in this case is well > taken. > Also, I like your idea about a "second owner" article, too. As a buyer (but > not yet a builder) of Experimental aircraft over the years, it's a subject > I'm personally very interested in . . . > Best, > > Dave Hirschman > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Dave Saylor [mailto:dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:50 PM > *To:* Hirschman, Dave > *Cc:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV-10 Article > > Thank you, Dave. That's a reasonable and completely acceptable > explanation. FWIW, there are a lot of people who are concerned about people > intending to get around the rules, and this looked for all the world like > one of those cases. A line or two to set things straight might have been > interesting and informative to your audience. How about an article > specifically addressing "second owner" ins and outs? > > Thanks again, > > Dave Saylor > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Hirschman, Dave wrote: > >> Dear David Saylor, >> >> Thanks very much for your e-mail and sharing your concerns about this >> airplane. >> I can assure you that David Peeler doesn't have the repairman's >> certificate on this airplane. He bought it from the builder (who is now >> deceased). >> The point of the RV-10 story was to highlight the tremendous utility and >> capability of some Experimental category aircraft, even for non-builders >> like David and Amy Peeler. My parents built a VariEze, and I'm an RV-3 >> owner, so I'm a big fan of the Experimental category . . . >> Warm Regards, >> >> Dave Hirschman >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Dave Saylor [mailto:dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com] >> *Sent:* Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:41 PM >> *To:* Hirschman, Dave >> *Subject:* Fwd: RV-10 Article >> >> Dear Mr. Hirschman, >> >> I'm a 24-year AOPA member and an RV-10 builder/owner. I own and operate a >> builder assistance center for amateur built aircraft, and I served on the >> FAA's recent committee to review what is commonly known as the 51% rule. >> >> I think you did a disservice to RV-10 builders specifically and all >> amateur builders in general by printing certain quotes from David Peeler. >> Without any valid explanation of the rule, you left the impression that Dr. >> Peeler had someone build his plane. Yet, a quick check of the registration >> database clearly lists him as the manufacturer, but he claims he doesn't >> "pretend to be" the builder...something's fishy. >> >> There's nothing wrong with selling a plane that you built, as long as your >> intentions were correct. And there's nothing wrong with hiring out certain >> parts of the project. But in this case there's clearly more to the story, >> and not knowing what it is or how it was addressed leaves a black mark. >> >> I hope you can clear up the discrepancy. I'm not the only one who >> noticed. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Dave Saylor >> AirCrafters LLC >> 140 Aviation Way >> Watsonville, CA 95076 >> 831-722-9141 Shop >> 831-750-0284 Cell >> > -- Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 95076 831-722-9141 Shop 831-750-0284 Cell ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:26 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine You guys....I just write a lot. Really, I need no big recognition or attention. It's nice, the compliments, but there are plenty of others out there who have just as much fun and excitement and experience. Many of them even have more hair. So I don't need to be a huge focus of media for any specific reasons...but thanks for the nice words. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive John Cox wrote: > > Dr. Peeler holds a recent Commercial with Instrument ticket and has > authorizations for TBMs and T-33 but doesn't show a Repairman cert for > his fine AOPA magazined Raddatz built aircraft. This is similar to > Scott Gustafson's and ten other Raddatz builds that are flying. With > the final interpretation about to be chiseled in granite by the Fed, the > 51% rule is allowing many RV-10s built by Professionals to be purchased > and flown by individuals of means and the passion to join this group of > flying RV-10's. As Tony Soprano would say on the subject of caring not > in the feeding a maintenance of such birds.... Forgetaboutit. There are > many who say they did the work of others or color their prose a bit to > get the airworthiness. > > It was light years ago that a ragtag group of Yahoo fans migrated here > in hopes of a builder forum for RV-10 builders. > > Our insurance pool will soon be made up of the wide swath of interested > RV-10 operators (some not builders). Unless an insurance company > creates a better financial deal for an improved gene pool of "builder" > aircraft, we become a product of our own success with well financed Dr. > Peeler's of the RV-10 community. > > AOPA reported in the article 100 completed and another 1000 sold. My > numbers are just a bit off that projection. Flying 128/ Sold 983 leaving > 755 of us out in the cold lusting after the first group that's flying > with all those stories and romantic getaways. > > I concur that AOPA and EAA should both do an article on the raising and > feeding of the Olson clan while completing N104CD. Can anyone trump > Tim's accomplishments on the RV-10? > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Miller John > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:08 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine > > > AOPA should have done the article on Tim....... > > And wonder if Peeler got a repairman's certificate as well? > > grumpy > N184JM > > do not archive > > On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > >> >> I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time >> or skills". >> Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone >> said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they >> have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know >> how to do it. >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD >> do not archive >> >> >> Dave Saylor wrote: >>>>> Peeler, a physician, said he doesn't have the time or skills to >>> build an airplane like the RV-10, which requires at least 2,000 >>> hours for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies >>> with the letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his >>> aircraft for private, noncommercial purposes and hiring >>> professional mechanics to perform the required inspections. >>> "I'm not the builder of this airplane and I don't pretend to be," >>> he said.<< >>> > http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430 > WP >>> He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and >>> had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the >>> 8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do... >>> Dave Saylor >>> AirCrafters LLC >>> 140 Aviation Way >>> Watsonville, CA 95076 >>> 831-722-9141 Shop >>> 831-750-0284 Cell >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:04 AM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? Agree. There are about a dozen RV's on my field. Most of them fly regularly, but 80% of their flights are less than 1 hr. For me flying has always been about being the 'time machine' and escaping from the local world in which we spend nearly all of our time. I'd rather not fly for 2-3 weeks and save the money for fuel for a x-country than make a dozen trips to local airports that I've worn out during Phase 1. On our trip to OSH, we worked in a visit with a young couple that lived with us for a short time while we were in Ill. then after OSH we headed East and stopped and visited with friends just east of Cleveland, then we continued out to Long Island NY to visit our daughter, and then worked our way back home based on our interests and the weather. Since my time is 'unscheduled' my biggest constraint is the price of AVgas and the bank account. Deems Davis N519PJ http://deemsrv10.com/index.html Tim Olson wrote: > > One thing I see lots of is that people like to fly to > things in their own backyards, but they don't always > want to go somewhere further. (with the normal exception > of OSH) I find it funny that I know a lot of builders > on the East Coast who go all over the East, but seldom > consider going West of the Rockies. Then I know a lot > of folks West of the Rockies and they've never been out > East. Same when you divide North from South. Personally, > I think people should use these "magic carpets" to shrink > their world a little bit further and not be afraid to > venture from coast to coast, even for a good fly-in. > I added a day of just hanging out in my last Oregon > trip, yet did that trip as what basically was designed > to be a 4 day weekend. Last fall we did the East Coast > and flew NYC's hudson in a 4 day trip. You can do an > awful lot with 4 or 5 days, so I say, go enjoy the sky > for a while. The RV-10 really makes it possible to > be ANYWHERE in the continental US with a fairly easy 2 > days of flying. So get out of your own backyard and > go visit somewhere else...there's just so much to > see and experience! > > We're still needing to get to the central South states, > so over the next year or two that's going to be on our > list. Then we'll go revisit them all. :) > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > > orchidman wrote: >> >> After I get my plane back from the paint shop I want to start looking >> for a good airport in the Ozarks (Eastern OK, Western AR, and MO) >> That would put it within a -10 tank of gas for everyone within the >> circle from TX, NM, the Dakotas, WI, OH, and GA which would be most >> of the central US. >> I am sure others can do it for the western and eastern areas also. >> Come in on a Saturday and leave by noon on Sunday. >> >> -------- >> Gary Blankenbiller >> RV10 - # 40674 >> (N2GB Flying) >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259963#259963 >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:45:52 AM PST US From: "richard sipp" Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine And then there is the story told to me by an Oshkosh judge; they were looking at a Lancair IV that was under consideration for a top award. When they asked the owner to un cowl the airplane it became apparent that he was not sure how to do it. He was dropped from consideration for the award. Dick Sipp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:33 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine > > I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time > or skills". I mean, I had a 2 and 4 year old kid to raise, and > I took the time. I also didn't have any prior airplane building > experience, and experimental planes are for EDUCATION and > recreation....so you're supposed to LEARN the skills along > the way. So to me, it's a cop out when someone just > says they're too busy or don't know how. There are people > that take 1 year, and people that take 6 or 10 years to > complete their homebuilt...and most of them can then > take the pride that they indeed did build it. > > Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone > said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they > have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know > how to do it. And, they didn't really want to take things > apart very far to get to the parts in question. I pondered > that for a minute....now, not only did the guy buy the > plane, but he doesn't have the ambition to learn and take > it apart to do proper maintenance and wants to slide through > as simple as possible on that, too. What a shame. Wouldn't > it be better to grab the plans and tear into it, and > learn about how the plane is built at least? What a > shame, the level of concern we sometimes show for gathering > knowledge. > > To me, I was happy to see RV-10's held in high regard by > AOPA's magazine, but I really think they went down the > wrong path using an example of the plane that wasn't > being flown by the actual builder. It's nice press > coverage, but really, it's a homebuilt plane, and > it would be nice if an honest to goodness homebuilder > could share their even greater joy and regard for the > process, and how much it enriched their life and experience. > Not knocking anyone in particular with that...it's just > that really, it's a nice plane and all, but it's the > complete understanding, attention to detail, ultra > care in maintenance and quality, and that sort of thing > that sets us apart. The plane itself can be far better > than most certified planes, simply due to the fact that > an honest to goodness homebuilder "Repairman" can > do improvements that FAA regs would handicap them > from being able to accomplish if it were certified...at > least without tons of paperwork. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > > Dave Saylor wrote: >> >>Peeler, a physician, said he doesnt have the time or skills to build >> an airplane like the RV10, which requires at least 2,000 hours for a >> veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies with the letter and >> spirit of the regulations by only using his aircraft for private, >> noncommercial purposes and hiring professional mechanics to perform the >> required inspections. >> >> Im not the builder of this airplane and I dont pretend to be, he >> said.<< >> >> http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430WP >> >> He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and had >> his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the 8130-12. He >> may have some 'splain'n to do... >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:50 PM, > > wrote: >> >> Nice RV-10 write up in the Aopa magazine-interesting comment re oil >> temps >> >> >> >> Dave Saylor >> AirCrafters LLC >> 140 Aviation Way >> Watsonville, CA 95076 >> 831-722-9141 Shop >> 831-750-0284 Cell > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:07 AM PST US From: Robert Brunkenhoefer Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? i would be interested. i hear arkansas, ok and mo are beautiful. robert corpus christi is a long way from most places. CRP On Aug 27, 2009, at 11:33 AM, orchidman wrote: > > After I get my plane back from the paint shop I want to start > looking for a good airport in the Ozarks (Eastern OK, Western AR, > and MO) > That would put it within a -10 tank of gas for everyone within the > circle from TX, NM, the Dakotas, WI, OH, and GA which would be most > of the central US. > I am sure others can do it for the western and eastern areas also. > Come in on a Saturday and leave by noon on Sunday. > > -------- > Gary Blankenbiller > RV10 - # 40674 > (N2GB Flying) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259963#259963 > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:10:11 PM PST US From: "Pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine Tim; Maybe you write a lot, in my case it's motivational with places to go and mostly responses to most people on and off list. I think what most of us are saying is there is far more benefit to having a person who has done quite a lot for the RV-10 community than the poor choice that was used. Let me give you an example- Jason Paur wrote an article on Van, Having you in there would have been a great benefit to readers to see the other side to the article- you are a perfect candidate to show that the RV-10 is meant to be built by a unqualified candidate initially with a 2 and 4 year who found time and the necessary skills to complete and fly the plane throughout the country at that. Pascal -------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Olson" Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:10 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine > > You guys....I just write a lot. Really, I need no big > recognition or attention. It's nice, the compliments, > but there are plenty of others out there who have just > as much fun and excitement and experience. Many of them > even have more hair. So I don't need to be a huge > focus of media for any specific reasons...but thanks > for the nice words. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > > John Cox wrote: >> >> Dr. Peeler holds a recent Commercial with Instrument ticket and has >> authorizations for TBMs and T-33 but doesn't show a Repairman cert for >> his fine AOPA magazined Raddatz built aircraft. This is similar to >> Scott Gustafson's and ten other Raddatz builds that are flying. With >> the final interpretation about to be chiseled in granite by the Fed, the >> 51% rule is allowing many RV-10s built by Professionals to be purchased >> and flown by individuals of means and the passion to join this group of >> flying RV-10's. As Tony Soprano would say on the subject of caring not >> in the feeding a maintenance of such birds.... Forgetaboutit. There are >> many who say they did the work of others or color their prose a bit to >> get the airworthiness. >> >> It was light years ago that a ragtag group of Yahoo fans migrated here >> in hopes of a builder forum for RV-10 builders. >> >> Our insurance pool will soon be made up of the wide swath of interested >> RV-10 operators (some not builders). Unless an insurance company >> creates a better financial deal for an improved gene pool of "builder" >> aircraft, we become a product of our own success with well financed Dr. >> Peeler's of the RV-10 community. >> >> AOPA reported in the article 100 completed and another 1000 sold. My >> numbers are just a bit off that projection. Flying 128/ Sold 983 leaving >> 755 of us out in the cold lusting after the first group that's flying >> with all those stories and romantic getaways. >> >> I concur that AOPA and EAA should both do an article on the raising and >> feeding of the Olson clan while completing N104CD. Can anyone trump >> Tim's accomplishments on the RV-10? >> >> John >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Miller John >> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:08 AM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine >> >> >> AOPA should have done the article on Tim....... >> >> And wonder if Peeler got a repairman's certificate as well? >> >> grumpy >> N184JM >> >> do not archive >> >> On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote: >> >>> >>> I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time >>> or skills". Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where >>> someone >>> said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they >>> have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know >>> how to do it. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD >>> do not archive >>> >>> >>> Dave Saylor wrote: >>>>>> Peeler, a physician, said he doesn't have the time or skills to >>>> build an airplane like the RV-10, which requires at least 2,000 hours >>>> for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies with the >>>> letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his aircraft for >>>> private, noncommercial purposes and hiring professional mechanics to >>>> perform the required inspections. >>>> "I'm not the builder of this airplane and I don't pretend to be," he >>>> said.<< >>>> >> http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430 >> WP >>>> He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and >>>> had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the 8130-12. >>>> He may have some 'splain'n to do... >>>> Dave Saylor >>>> AirCrafters LLC >>>> 140 Aviation Way >>>> Watsonville, CA 95076 >>>> 831-722-9141 Shop >>>> 831-750-0284 Cell >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:36 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOPA magazine Sounds like the FAA is doing what any bureaucracy does. Whenever anyone bends the (rule) fence. Instead of addressing the offenders directly , their time tested response is build a bigger fence -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:42 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOPA magazine Dr. Peeler holds a recent Commercial with Instrument ticket and has authorizations for TBMs and T-33 but doesn't show a Repairman cert for his fine AOPA magazined Raddatz built aircraft. This is similar to Scott Gustafson's and ten other Raddatz builds that are flying. With the final interpretation about to be chiseled in granite by the Fed, the 51% rule is allowing many RV-10s built by Professionals to be purchased and flown by individuals of means and the passion to join this group of flying RV-10's. As Tony Soprano would say on the subject of caring not in the feeding a maintenance of such birds.... Forgetaboutit. There are many who say they did the work of others or color their prose a bit to get the airworthiness. It was light years ago that a ragtag group of Yahoo fans migrated here in hopes of a builder forum for RV-10 builders. Our insurance pool will soon be made up of the wide swath of interested RV-10 operators (some not builders). Unless an insurance company creates a better financial deal for an improved gene pool of "builder" aircraft, we become a product of our own success with well financed Dr. Peeler's of the RV-10 community. AOPA reported in the article 100 completed and another 1000 sold. My numbers are just a bit off that projection. Flying 128/ Sold 983 leaving 755 of us out in the cold lusting after the first group that's flying with all those stories and romantic getaways. I concur that AOPA and EAA should both do an article on the raising and feeding of the Olson clan while completing N104CD. Can anyone trump Tim's accomplishments on the RV-10? John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Miller John Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:08 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine AOPA should have done the article on Tim....... And wonder if Peeler got a repairman's certificate as well? grumpy N184JM do not archive On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time or > skills". > Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone said > that they didn't build their plane, and that now they have some > maintenance they need to do, but they don't know how to do it. > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > > Dave Saylor wrote: >> >>Peeler, a physician, said he doesn't have the time or skills to >> build an airplane like the RV-10, which requires at least 2,000 >> hours for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies >> with the letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his >> aircraft for private, noncommercial purposes and hiring >> professional mechanics to perform the required inspections. >> "I'm not the builder of this airplane and I don't pretend to be," >> he said.<< >> http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430 WP >> He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and >> had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the >> 8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do... >> Dave Saylor >> AirCrafters LLC >> 140 Aviation Way >> Watsonville, CA 95076 >> 831-722-9141 Shop >> 831-750-0284 Cell > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:35 PM PST US From: "Rene Felker" Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOPA magazine ...... Flying 128/ Sold 983 leaving 755...... Looks like a typo, I think you meant 228 flying and that is 28 above what Vans shows. I am guessing that your number is more accurate since Vans only reports what they are told by the builders and not all builders tell Vans that they are flying. Rene' Felker RV-10 N423CF Flying 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:42 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOPA magazine Dr. Peeler holds a recent Commercial with Instrument ticket and has authorizations for TBMs and T-33 but doesn't show a Repairman cert for his fine AOPA magazined Raddatz built aircraft. This is similar to Scott Gustafson's and ten other Raddatz builds that are flying. With the final interpretation about to be chiseled in granite by the Fed, the 51% rule is allowing many RV-10s built by Professionals to be purchased and flown by individuals of means and the passion to join this group of flying RV-10's. As Tony Soprano would say on the subject of caring not in the feeding a maintenance of such birds.... Forgetaboutit. There are many who say they did the work of others or color their prose a bit to get the airworthiness. It was light years ago that a ragtag group of Yahoo fans migrated here in hopes of a builder forum for RV-10 builders. Our insurance pool will soon be made up of the wide swath of interested RV-10 operators (some not builders). Unless an insurance company creates a better financial deal for an improved gene pool of "builder" aircraft, we become a product of our own success with well financed Dr. Peeler's of the RV-10 community. AOPA reported in the article 100 completed and another 1000 sold. My numbers are just a bit off that projection. Flying 128/ Sold 983 leaving 755 of us out in the cold lusting after the first group that's flying with all those stories and romantic getaways. I concur that AOPA and EAA should both do an article on the raising and feeding of the Olson clan while completing N104CD. Can anyone trump Tim's accomplishments on the RV-10? John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Miller John Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:08 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine AOPA should have done the article on Tim....... And wonder if Peeler got a repairman's certificate as well? grumpy N184JM do not archive On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time > or skills". > Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone > said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they > have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know > how to do it. > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > > Dave Saylor wrote: >> >>Peeler, a physician, said he doesn't have the time or skills to >> build an airplane like the RV-10, which requires at least 2,000 >> hours for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies >> with the letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his >> aircraft for private, noncommercial purposes and hiring >> professional mechanics to perform the required inspections. >> "I'm not the builder of this airplane and I don't pretend to be," >> he said.<< >> http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430 WP >> He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and >> had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the >> 8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do... >> Dave Saylor >> AirCrafters LLC >> 140 Aviation Way >> Watsonville, CA 95076 >> 831-722-9141 Shop >> 831-750-0284 Cell > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:21 PM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOPA magazine Ya guys, no embarrassing Tim lest he take his website offline ala Checkoway. Of course Dan forgot about a little something called the Internet Archive. As the kids of today are learning, once on the Internet, it's there forever. :) Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:10 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine You guys....I just write a lot. Really, I need no big recognition or attention. It's nice, the compliments, but there are plenty of others out there who have just as much fun and excitement and experience. Many of them even have more hair. So I don't need to be a huge focus of media for any specific reasons...but thanks for the nice words. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive John Cox wrote: > > Dr. Peeler holds a recent Commercial with Instrument ticket and has > authorizations for TBMs and T-33 but doesn't show a Repairman cert for > his fine AOPA magazined Raddatz built aircraft. This is similar to > Scott Gustafson's and ten other Raddatz builds that are flying. With > the final interpretation about to be chiseled in granite by the Fed, the > 51% rule is allowing many RV-10s built by Professionals to be purchased > and flown by individuals of means and the passion to join this group of > flying RV-10's. As Tony Soprano would say on the subject of caring not > in the feeding a maintenance of such birds.... Forgetaboutit. There are > many who say they did the work of others or color their prose a bit to > get the airworthiness. > > It was light years ago that a ragtag group of Yahoo fans migrated here > in hopes of a builder forum for RV-10 builders. > > Our insurance pool will soon be made up of the wide swath of interested > RV-10 operators (some not builders). Unless an insurance company > creates a better financial deal for an improved gene pool of "builder" > aircraft, we become a product of our own success with well financed Dr. > Peeler's of the RV-10 community. > > AOPA reported in the article 100 completed and another 1000 sold. My > numbers are just a bit off that projection. Flying 128/ Sold 983 leaving > 755 of us out in the cold lusting after the first group that's flying > with all those stories and romantic getaways. > > I concur that AOPA and EAA should both do an article on the raising and > feeding of the Olson clan while completing N104CD. Can anyone trump > Tim's accomplishments on the RV-10? > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Miller John > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:08 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine > > > AOPA should have done the article on Tim....... > > And wonder if Peeler got a repairman's certificate as well? > > grumpy > N184JM > > do not archive > > On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > >> >> I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time >> or skills". >> Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone >> said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they >> have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know >> how to do it. >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD >> do not archive >> >> >> Dave Saylor wrote: >>>>> Peeler, a physician, said he doesn't have the time or skills to >>> build an airplane like the RV-10, which requires at least 2,000 >>> hours for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies >>> with the letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his >>> aircraft for private, noncommercial purposes and hiring >>> professional mechanics to perform the required inspections. >>> "I'm not the builder of this airplane and I don't pretend to be," >>> he said.<< >>> > http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430 > WP >>> He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and >>> had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the >>> 8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do... >>> Dave Saylor >>> AirCrafters LLC >>> 140 Aviation Way >>> Watsonville, CA 95076 >>> 831-722-9141 Shop >>> 831-750-0284 Cell >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:27 PM PST US From: "gary" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? AMEN AMEM Gary Specketer -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:28 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? Agree. There are about a dozen RV's on my field. Most of them fly regularly, but 80% of their flights are less than 1 hr. For me flying has always been about being the 'time machine' and escaping from the local world in which we spend nearly all of our time. I'd rather not fly for 2-3 weeks and save the money for fuel for a x-country than make a dozen trips to local airports that I've worn out during Phase 1. On our trip to OSH, we worked in a visit with a young couple that lived with us for a short time while we were in Ill. then after OSH we headed East and stopped and visited with friends just east of Cleveland, then we continued out to Long Island NY to visit our daughter, and then worked our way back home based on our interests and the weather. Since my time is 'unscheduled' my biggest constraint is the price of AVgas and the bank account. Deems Davis N519PJ http://deemsrv10.com/index.html Tim Olson wrote: > > One thing I see lots of is that people like to fly to > things in their own backyards, but they don't always > want to go somewhere further. (with the normal exception > of OSH) I find it funny that I know a lot of builders > on the East Coast who go all over the East, but seldom > consider going West of the Rockies. Then I know a lot > of folks West of the Rockies and they've never been out > East. Same when you divide North from South. Personally, > I think people should use these "magic carpets" to shrink > their world a little bit further and not be afraid to > venture from coast to coast, even for a good fly-in. > I added a day of just hanging out in my last Oregon > trip, yet did that trip as what basically was designed > to be a 4 day weekend. Last fall we did the East Coast > and flew NYC's hudson in a 4 day trip. You can do an > awful lot with 4 or 5 days, so I say, go enjoy the sky > for a while. The RV-10 really makes it possible to > be ANYWHERE in the continental US with a fairly easy 2 > days of flying. So get out of your own backyard and > go visit somewhere else...there's just so much to > see and experience! > > We're still needing to get to the central South states, > so over the next year or two that's going to be on our > list. Then we'll go revisit them all. :) > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > > orchidman wrote: >> >> After I get my plane back from the paint shop I want to start looking >> for a good airport in the Ozarks (Eastern OK, Western AR, and MO) >> That would put it within a -10 tank of gas for everyone within the >> circle from TX, NM, the Dakotas, WI, OH, and GA which would be most >> of the central US. >> I am sure others can do it for the western and eastern areas also. >> Come in on a Saturday and leave by noon on Sunday. >> >> -------- >> Gary Blankenbiller >> RV10 - # 40674 >> (N2GB Flying) >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259963#259963 >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:12 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine Or the mechanically capable owner that is able to find an amenable A&P to supervise properly restoring the aircraft to what it should be. I do carry 30-40lbs of tools on most flights, more if planning to do inspection or repair. Kelly A&P/IA Patrick Thyssen wrote: > Tim, > Maybe it's the owner who wants their plane to look like shit and not > pay an honest amount of money to fix it. You can always find some one to > do work and sighn it off. > But its the owner who has to say do it right. And Pay. > Patrick Thyssen > A&P > I don't carry 100 lbs of tools in my planes and neither do my customers. > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:01 PM PST US From: David Maib Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? Eureka Springs AR. was just featured in the most recent issue of Pilot Getaways magazine. Mary and I used to own a place in that area. It is a little jewel tucked away in NW Arkansas. Carroll Co. airport (4M1) is a nice little (VFR) airport and I suspect the manager would be pretty helpful to a group fly-in. Side trip to Gaston's White River Resort for a fly-in lunch or some world class brown trout fishing would be available. People could stay on Table Rock Lake at Holiday Island, about seven miles out of Eureka Springs. Golf, water sports, and fishing available there. Very short flight to Branson, as well. Lots for kids and grownups to do. David Maib 40559 Flying On Aug 27, 2009, at 12:54 PM, Deems Davis wrote: Branson MO? We've got a couple of days @ a time share reserved there sometime in OCT Deems orchidman wrote: > > After I get my plane back from the paint shop I want to start > looking for a good airport in the Ozarks (Eastern OK, Western AR, > and MO) > That would put it within a -10 tank of gas for everyone within the > circle from TX, NM, the Dakotas, WI, OH, and GA which would be most > of the central US. > I am sure others can do it for the western and eastern areas also. > Come in on a Saturday and leave by noon on Sunday. > > -------- > Gary Blankenbiller > RV10 - # 40674 > (N2GB Flying) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259963#259963 > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:20 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? Hot Springs AR, Springfield/Branson and areas in between are nice. Can't recall any place I've been in OK that I'd want to spend more than an overnight. Both destinations would be in the 5-6 hour distance from AZ at -10 speeds, about an hour more in my Mooney. Unless extremely favorable winds, that means a fuel stop. Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote: > > i would be interested. i hear arkansas, ok and mo are beautiful. robert > corpus christi is a long way from most places. CRP > On Aug 27, 2009, at 11:33 AM, orchidman wrote: > >> >> After I get my plane back from the paint shop I want to start looking >> for a good airport in the Ozarks (Eastern OK, Western AR, and MO) >> That would put it within a -10 tank of gas for everyone within the >> circle from TX, NM, the Dakotas, WI, OH, and GA which would be most of >> the central US. >> I am sure others can do it for the western and eastern areas also. >> Come in on a Saturday and leave by noon on Sunday. >> >> -------- >> Gary Blankenbiller >> RV10 - # 40674 >> (N2GB Flying) >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259963#259963 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:45 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine Reminder how to find the old Checkoway site would be nice. I recall several things that I would like to refresh on. RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > > Ya guys, no embarrassing Tim lest he take his website offline ala Checkoway. Of course Dan forgot about a little something called the Internet Archive. As the kids of today are learning, once on the Internet, it's there forever. :) > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:10 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine > > > You guys....I just write a lot. Really, I need no big > recognition or attention. It's nice, the compliments, > but there are plenty of others out there who have just > as much fun and excitement and experience. Many of them > even have more hair. So I don't need to be a huge > focus of media for any specific reasons...but thanks > for the nice words. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > > John Cox wrote: >> >> Dr. Peeler holds a recent Commercial with Instrument ticket and has >> authorizations for TBMs and T-33 but doesn't show a Repairman cert for >> his fine AOPA magazined Raddatz built aircraft. This is similar to >> Scott Gustafson's and ten other Raddatz builds that are flying. With >> the final interpretation about to be chiseled in granite by the Fed, the >> 51% rule is allowing many RV-10s built by Professionals to be purchased >> and flown by individuals of means and the passion to join this group of >> flying RV-10's. As Tony Soprano would say on the subject of caring not >> in the feeding a maintenance of such birds.... Forgetaboutit. There are >> many who say they did the work of others or color their prose a bit to >> get the airworthiness. >> >> It was light years ago that a ragtag group of Yahoo fans migrated here >> in hopes of a builder forum for RV-10 builders. >> >> Our insurance pool will soon be made up of the wide swath of interested >> RV-10 operators (some not builders). Unless an insurance company >> creates a better financial deal for an improved gene pool of "builder" >> aircraft, we become a product of our own success with well financed Dr. >> Peeler's of the RV-10 community. >> >> AOPA reported in the article 100 completed and another 1000 sold. My >> numbers are just a bit off that projection. Flying 128/ Sold 983 leaving >> 755 of us out in the cold lusting after the first group that's flying >> with all those stories and romantic getaways. >> >> I concur that AOPA and EAA should both do an article on the raising and >> feeding of the Olson clan while completing N104CD. Can anyone trump >> Tim's accomplishments on the RV-10? >> >> John >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Miller John >> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:08 AM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine >> >> >> AOPA should have done the article on Tim....... >> >> And wonder if Peeler got a repairman's certificate as well? >> >> grumpy >> N184JM >> >> do not archive >> >> On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote: >> >>> >>> I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time >>> or skills". >>> Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone >>> said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they >>> have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know >>> how to do it. >>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD >>> do not archive >>> >>> >>> Dave Saylor wrote: >>>>>> Peeler, a physician, said he doesn't have the time or skills to >>>> build an airplane like the RV-10, which requires at least 2,000 >>>> hours for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies >>>> with the letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his >>>> aircraft for private, noncommercial purposes and hiring >>>> professional mechanics to perform the required inspections. >>>> "I'm not the builder of this airplane and I don't pretend to be," >>>> he said.<< >>>> >> http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430 >> WP >>>> He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and >>>> had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the >>>> 8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do... >>>> Dave Saylor >>>> AirCrafters LLC >>>> 140 Aviation Way >>>> Watsonville, CA 95076 >>>> 831-722-9141 Shop >>>> 831-750-0284 Cell >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:43 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? From: "orchidman" I now have 3 locations to examine. I assume that we need to evaluate parking, air camping, hotels, food and any gathering area plus what else? -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N2GB Flying) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260051#260051 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:43 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOPA magazine Boulders need to carry some tools and spare parts on their flights. I have had a major FBO at Austin tell me that since they have no maintenance manual for my Glastar that they can not work on it. They offered free use of their hangar and tools but I must fix it. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:15 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine Or the mechanically capable owner that is able to find an amenable A&P to supervise properly restoring the aircraft to what it should be. I do carry 30-40lbs of tools on most flights, more if planning to do inspection or repair. Kelly A&P/IA Patrick Thyssen wrote: > Tim, > Maybe it's the owner who wants their plane to look like shit and not > pay an honest amount of money to fix it. You can always find some one > to do work and sighn it off. > But its the owner who has to say do it right. And Pay. > Patrick Thyssen > A&P > I don't carry 100 lbs of tools in my planes and neither do my customers. > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:49 PM PST US From: "Chris and Susie" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? Hay Deems lucky you not live anywhere else in the world,, Avgas is actualy cheap in the US! Lucky buggars Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deems Davis" Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 4:27 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? > > Agree. There are about a dozen RV's on my field. Most of them fly > regularly, but 80% of their flights are less than 1 hr. For me flying has > always been about being the 'time machine' and escaping from the local > world in which we spend nearly all of our time. I'd rather not fly for 2-3 > weeks and save the money for fuel for a x-country than make a dozen trips > to local airports that I've worn out during Phase 1. On our trip to OSH, > we worked in a visit with a young couple that lived with us for a short > time while we were in Ill. then after OSH we headed East and stopped and > visited with friends just east of Cleveland, then we continued out to Long > Island NY to visit our daughter, and then worked our way back home based > on our interests and the weather. Since my time is 'unscheduled' my > biggest constraint is the price of AVgas and the bank account. > > Deems Davis N519PJ > http://deemsrv10.com/index.html > > Tim Olson wrote: >> >> One thing I see lots of is that people like to fly to >> things in their own backyards, but they don't always >> want to go somewhere further. (with the normal exception >> of OSH) I find it funny that I know a lot of builders >> on the East Coast who go all over the East, but seldom >> consider going West of the Rockies. Then I know a lot >> of folks West of the Rockies and they've never been out >> East. Same when you divide North from South. Personally, >> I think people should use these "magic carpets" to shrink >> their world a little bit further and not be afraid to >> venture from coast to coast, even for a good fly-in. >> I added a day of just hanging out in my last Oregon >> trip, yet did that trip as what basically was designed >> to be a 4 day weekend. Last fall we did the East Coast >> and flew NYC's hudson in a 4 day trip. You can do an >> awful lot with 4 or 5 days, so I say, go enjoy the sky >> for a while. The RV-10 really makes it possible to >> be ANYWHERE in the continental US with a fairly easy 2 >> days of flying. So get out of your own backyard and >> go visit somewhere else...there's just so much to >> see and experience! >> >> We're still needing to get to the central South states, >> so over the next year or two that's going to be on our >> list. Then we'll go revisit them all. :) >> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD >> do not archive >> >> >> orchidman wrote: >>> >>> After I get my plane back from the paint shop I want to start looking >>> for a good airport in the Ozarks (Eastern OK, Western AR, and MO) >>> That would put it within a -10 tank of gas for everyone within the >>> circle from TX, NM, the Dakotas, WI, OH, and GA which would be most of >>> the central US. >>> I am sure others can do it for the western and eastern areas also. >>> Come in on a Saturday and leave by noon on Sunday. >>> >>> -------- >>> Gary Blankenbiller >>> RV10 - # 40674 >>> (N2GB Flying) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259963#259963 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:30 PM PST US From: Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List Digest: Aveo landing lights Did anyone else see the new generation Aveo landing lights @ OSH this year? Here is their verbage - AveoMaxxT landing/taxi/wigwag light module and the AveoMaxxT Premiere 6-in-1 embedded wingtip light solution (Taxi-WigWag-Landing-Nav-Posistion-Strobe). Web site is: aveoaviationlights.com for those interested. Has anyone purchased them? If so have you "fired them up"? How do they compare to other brand HID's? Am looking for someone's input who has purchased/used them if possible. They supposedly use an LED with Lazer technology. All that sounds great but my question is how does the RUNWAY LOOK at night in comparing them to HIDs? Better, worse, same? It is difficult to imagine them any better than a "top of the line" 50 Watt HID, but am looking for real world input??? Yes, they look cool, and yes their Nav/strobe combo bolts right on the side of the landing light fixture and yes the entire fixture will fit in our wing tip space. But, at their price (quoted $2600 at OSH for Nav/strobe/landing light combo - both sides) I'd sure appreciate some input from fellow flyer/builders... Thanks to all! Rich RV-6A 1000 hrs of awesome flying 10 - finishing kit ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:27 PM PST US From: Bill Mauledriver Watson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? You are killing me Tim! I can barely face the Maule for a CC jaunt anymore. It's just too slow. Before starting the '10, we flew the heck out of our Maule from northern NY to Key West. From the Outer Banks to Houston. All from our homebase in Durham NC. For the Maule, that's not so much a regional limit as a butts-in-seats issue. The hour long leg is not a bad thing either as long as you do it often. We were lucky enough to have a mission most weekends for a 2 hour out and return. Nothing like a schedule to exercise the IFR chops. I wouldn't want to knock the builders who don't feel the need to take off for parts unknown. Some of us are in this to build, others may prefer a sport acro session in a single digit RV, and some just like to pound the patch. But the '10 is my dream of a magic carpet. As much as I'm enjoying the build, I can hardly wait to fly it. I have several dream trips I hope to make if the fates allow. Cuba is one I've been dreaming of since the '10 was announced. I figured private flights there would once again be possible in my lifetime.... and I feel like it's real close. Alaska is another big dream trip. Cancun is an extension of the Cuba dream. In general, I'd love to fly out west. I've towed and flown my old sailplane out in New Mexico, Montana and Nevada but an engine seems like it could be almost as much fun. One of the most exciting thoughts is that the '10, when compared to the Maule, can be more economical in terms of fuel. On a long leg in the Maule, I average 9 Gals/hour. If the winds don't fight me, I can do 110 knots. Some rough math suggests that Durham to Tampa is 40 gallons in the Maule but perhaps 35 gallons in the '10. But more important, it's less time in the seat with an AP thrown in for kicks. Nice! Bill "working through the FAB thinking how nice the other 99.9% of the kit is" Watson footnotes: RV10, 40605, 3 years in the making, username = Tigressa, password Osh10kosh 1996 Maule, 180hp, fixed in all respects except for constantly chipping paint, 1,300 hours missing my 1986 Rolladen-Schneider LS6b 15meter racing sailplane, retractable, laminar flow, ballasted, and still faster than the Maule formerly operator of a PIK20b, terrorizer of many a cow, may she RIP (the '10 will be my first plane without reflex flaps - how strange is that?) Tim Olson wrote: > > One thing I see lots of is that people like to fly to > things in their own backyards, but they don't always > want to go somewhere further. (with the normal exception > of OSH) I find it funny that I know a lot of builders > on the East Coast who go all over the East, but seldom > consider going West of the Rockies. Then I know a lot > of folks West of the Rockies and they've never been out > East. Same when you divide North from South. Personally, > I think people should use these "magic carpets" to shrink > their world a little bit further and not be afraid to > venture from coast to coast, even for a good fly-in. > I added a day of just hanging out in my last Oregon > trip, yet did that trip as what basically was designed > to be a 4 day weekend. Last fall we did the East Coast > and flew NYC's hudson in a 4 day trip. You can do an > awful lot with 4 or 5 days, so I say, go enjoy the sky > for a while. The RV-10 really makes it possible to > be ANYWHERE in the continental US with a fairly easy 2 > days of flying. So get out of your own backyard and > go visit somewhere else...there's just so much to > see and experience! > > We're still needing to get to the central South states, > so over the next year or two that's going to be on our > list. Then we'll go revisit them all. :) > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:54 PM PST US From: "Rene Felker" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? The flaps on the -10 are reflex.......3 degrees....your next plane will have to be the first without reflex flaps... Rene' Felker RV-10 N423CF Flying 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mauledriver Watson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:41 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? You are killing me Tim! I can barely face the Maule for a CC jaunt anymore. It's just too slow. Before starting the '10, we flew the heck out of our Maule from northern NY to Key West. From the Outer Banks to Houston. All from our homebase in Durham NC. For the Maule, that's not so much a regional limit as a butts-in-seats issue. The hour long leg is not a bad thing either as long as you do it often. We were lucky enough to have a mission most weekends for a 2 hour out and return. Nothing like a schedule to exercise the IFR chops. I wouldn't want to knock the builders who don't feel the need to take off for parts unknown. Some of us are in this to build, others may prefer a sport acro session in a single digit RV, and some just like to pound the patch. But the '10 is my dream of a magic carpet. As much as I'm enjoying the build, I can hardly wait to fly it. I have several dream trips I hope to make if the fates allow. Cuba is one I've been dreaming of since the '10 was announced. I figured private flights there would once again be possible in my lifetime.... and I feel like it's real close. Alaska is another big dream trip. Cancun is an extension of the Cuba dream. In general, I'd love to fly out west. I've towed and flown my old sailplane out in New Mexico, Montana and Nevada but an engine seems like it could be almost as much fun. One of the most exciting thoughts is that the '10, when compared to the Maule, can be more economical in terms of fuel. On a long leg in the Maule, I average 9 Gals/hour. If the winds don't fight me, I can do 110 knots. Some rough math suggests that Durham to Tampa is 40 gallons in the Maule but perhaps 35 gallons in the '10. But more important, it's less time in the seat with an AP thrown in for kicks. Nice! Bill "working through the FAB thinking how nice the other 99.9% of the kit is" Watson footnotes: RV10, 40605, 3 years in the making, username = Tigressa, password Osh10kosh 1996 Maule, 180hp, fixed in all respects except for constantly chipping paint, 1,300 hours missing my 1986 Rolladen-Schneider LS6b 15meter racing sailplane, retractable, laminar flow, ballasted, and still faster than the Maule formerly operator of a PIK20b, terrorizer of many a cow, may she RIP (the '10 will be my first plane without reflex flaps - how strange is that?) Tim Olson wrote: > > One thing I see lots of is that people like to fly to > things in their own backyards, but they don't always > want to go somewhere further. (with the normal exception > of OSH) I find it funny that I know a lot of builders > on the East Coast who go all over the East, but seldom > consider going West of the Rockies. Then I know a lot > of folks West of the Rockies and they've never been out > East. Same when you divide North from South. Personally, > I think people should use these "magic carpets" to shrink > their world a little bit further and not be afraid to > venture from coast to coast, even for a good fly-in. > I added a day of just hanging out in my last Oregon > trip, yet did that trip as what basically was designed > to be a 4 day weekend. Last fall we did the East Coast > and flew NYC's hudson in a 4 day trip. You can do an > awful lot with 4 or 5 days, so I say, go enjoy the sky > for a while. The RV-10 really makes it possible to > be ANYWHERE in the continental US with a fairly easy 2 > days of flying. So get out of your own backyard and > go visit somewhere else...there's just so much to > see and experience! > > We're still needing to get to the central South states, > so over the next year or two that's going to be on our > list. Then we'll go revisit them all. :) > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:31 PM PST US From: "Seano" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List Digest: Aveo landing lights Hey, I am really interested too! I have been waiting for these to come out. The Aveo dudes said these won't come out until mid September. I know the HID's are great but they said these are even brighter! I would pay for these just for the fact they are easy to install and hoolk right to the nav lights. They quoted me 2700, hope they come down a little. If not I will spend 1000 for LED position lights and strobes then buy the two HID'S. Oh ya the LED's would be a lot easier to wig wag with no power up. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:16 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List Digest: Aveo landing lights > > Did anyone else see the new generation Aveo landing lights @ OSH this > year? Here is their verbage - AveoMaxxT landing/taxi/wigwag light module > and the AveoMaxxT Premiere 6-in-1 embedded wingtip light solution > (Taxi-WigWag-Landing-Nav-Posistion-Strobe). Web site is: > aveoaviationlights.com for those interested. > > Has anyone purchased them? If so have you "fired them up"? How do they > compare to other brand HID's? Am looking for someone's input who has > purchased/used them if possible. They supposedly use an LED with Lazer > technology. All that sounds great but my question is how does the RUNWAY > LOOK at night in comparing them to HIDs? Better, worse, same? It is > difficult to imagine them any better than a "top of the line" 50 Watt HID, > but am looking for real world input??? > > Yes, they look cool, and yes their Nav/strobe combo bolts right on the > side of the landing light fixture and yes the entire fixture will fit in > our wing tip space. But, at their price (quoted $2600 at OSH for > Nav/strobe/landing light combo - both sides) I'd sure appreciate some > input from fellow flyer/builders... Thanks to all! > > Rich > RV-6A 1000 hrs of awesome flying > 10 - finishing kit > > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:57 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List Digest: Aveo landing lights From: "woxofswa" Check these out at the bottom of the page. This is what I am ordering. What I have ordered from these guys so far has been high quality. http://www.kestrobes.com/beacon.htm#LL1 -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260078#260078 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:30 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List Digest: Aveo landing lights From: "Robin Marks" Wow, $2,700. That is a lot of $. I think if one wanted to work with some of the Auto HID kits you could do dual HID's (~$150.00 each), Red/Green LED Position Lights ($75.00 total including sockets) and a premium Wig/Wag (XePulse ~$200.00). All that for under $600.00. Add two blank Duckworks leading edge cutouts ($130.00 pair). All in you have a great lighting system for under $750.00. If you don't want to cut your leading edge and wish to place the landing lights in the wing tips (not ideal for lighting based on my prior RV experience) you can get the Auto HID's that use the same bulb size as the standard Vans wing tip lights. I don't know of anyone saw the posting by Sam Buchannan where he used colored mirrored plexi as the backing for his position lights adding pizaz of his position lights and reflecting his strobes. Really cool look and again inexpensive. ~$6.00 each plus shipping. Turns our I am more frugal than I thought! The $2,000 savings gets you ALMOST a full set of front & rear leather Seats from Classic Aero. $3,000 for lights looks like a lot to me... Robin -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Seano Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:24 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List Digest: Aveo landing lights Hey, I am really interested too! I have been waiting for these to come out. The Aveo dudes said these won't come out until mid September. I know the HID's are great but they said these are even brighter! I would pay for these just for the fact they are easy to install and hoolk right to the nav lights. They quoted me 2700, hope they come down a little. If not I will spend 1000 for LED position lights and strobes then buy the two HID'S. Oh ya the LED's would be a lot easier to wig wag with no power up. ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:19 PM PST US From: "Seano" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List Digest: Aveo landing lights That is a big difference. I should go the cheaper route. Scott Schmidt has the HID's in the wingtip and I don't know why I should even look at anything else. Why do I need brighter than that? Maybe I will be able to afford my G900 now....NOT! Really wish I had the time yesterday to see your plane Robin. I am back in SLC now. What airport do you keep your plane at? ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin Marks To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:24 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List Digest: Aveo landing lights Wow, $2,700. That is a lot of $. I think if one wanted to work with some of the Auto HID kits you could do dual HID's (~$150.00 each), Red/Green LED Position Lights ($75.00 total including sockets) and a premium Wig/Wag (XePulse ~$200.00). All that for under $600.00. Add two blank Duckworks leading edge cutouts ($130.00 pair). All in you have a great lighting system for under $750.00. If you don't want to cut your leading edge and wish to place the landing lights in the wing tips (not ideal for lighting based on my prior RV experience) you can get the Auto HID's that use the same bulb size as the standard Vans wing tip lights. I don't know of anyone saw the posting by Sam Buchannan where he used colored mirrored plexi as the backing for his position lights adding pizaz of his position lights and reflecting his strobes. Really cool look and again inexpensive. ~$6.00 each plus shipping. Turns our I am more frugal than I thought! The $2,000 savings gets you ALMOST a full set of front & rear leather Seats from Classic Aero. $3,000 for lights looks like a lot to me. Robin -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Seano Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:24 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List Digest: Aveo landing lights Hey, I am really interested too! I have been waiting for these to come out. The Aveo dudes said these won't come out until mid September. I know the HID's are great but they said these are even brighter! I would pay for these just for the fact they are easy to install and hoolk right to the nav lights. They quoted me 2700, hope they come down a little. If not I will spend 1000 for LED position lights and strobes then buy the two HID'S. Oh ya the LED's would be a lot easier to wig wag with no power up. ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:07 PM PST US From: "John Cumins" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? Bill I hate to tell you the -10 has reflex flaps. The up position is 3% reflex. >From what I remember. John G. Cumins President JC'S Interactive Systems 2499 B1 Martin Rd Fairfield Ca 94533 707-425-7100 707-425-7576 Fax Your Total Technology Solution Provider -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mauledriver Watson Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 2:41 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? You are killing me Tim! I can barely face the Maule for a CC jaunt anymore. It's just too slow. Before starting the '10, we flew the heck out of our Maule from northern NY to Key West. From the Outer Banks to Houston. All from our homebase in Durham NC. For the Maule, that's not so much a regional limit as a butts-in-seats issue. The hour long leg is not a bad thing either as long as you do it often. We were lucky enough to have a mission most weekends for a 2 hour out and return. Nothing like a schedule to exercise the IFR chops. I wouldn't want to knock the builders who don't feel the need to take off for parts unknown. Some of us are in this to build, others may prefer a sport acro session in a single digit RV, and some just like to pound the patch. But the '10 is my dream of a magic carpet. As much as I'm enjoying the build, I can hardly wait to fly it. I have several dream trips I hope to make if the fates allow. Cuba is one I've been dreaming of since the '10 was announced. I figured private flights there would once again be possible in my lifetime.... and I feel like it's real close. Alaska is another big dream trip. Cancun is an extension of the Cuba dream. In general, I'd love to fly out west. I've towed and flown my old sailplane out in New Mexico, Montana and Nevada but an engine seems like it could be almost as much fun. One of the most exciting thoughts is that the '10, when compared to the Maule, can be more economical in terms of fuel. On a long leg in the Maule, I average 9 Gals/hour. If the winds don't fight me, I can do 110 knots. Some rough math suggests that Durham to Tampa is 40 gallons in the Maule but perhaps 35 gallons in the '10. But more important, it's less time in the seat with an AP thrown in for kicks. Nice! Bill "working through the FAB thinking how nice the other 99.9% of the kit is" Watson footnotes: RV10, 40605, 3 years in the making, username = Tigressa, password Osh10kosh 1996 Maule, 180hp, fixed in all respects except for constantly chipping paint, 1,300 hours missing my 1986 Rolladen-Schneider LS6b 15meter racing sailplane, retractable, laminar flow, ballasted, and still faster than the Maule formerly operator of a PIK20b, terrorizer of many a cow, may she RIP (the '10 will be my first plane without reflex flaps - how strange is that?) Tim Olson wrote: > > One thing I see lots of is that people like to fly to > things in their own backyards, but they don't always > want to go somewhere further. (with the normal exception > of OSH) I find it funny that I know a lot of builders > on the East Coast who go all over the East, but seldom > consider going West of the Rockies. Then I know a lot > of folks West of the Rockies and they've never been out > East. Same when you divide North from South. Personally, > I think people should use these "magic carpets" to shrink > their world a little bit further and not be afraid to > venture from coast to coast, even for a good fly-in. > I added a day of just hanging out in my last Oregon > trip, yet did that trip as what basically was designed > to be a 4 day weekend. Last fall we did the East Coast > and flew NYC's hudson in a 4 day trip. You can do an > awful lot with 4 or 5 days, so I say, go enjoy the sky > for a while. The RV-10 really makes it possible to > be ANYWHERE in the continental US with a fairly easy 2 > days of flying. So get out of your own backyard and > go visit somewhere else...there's just so much to > see and experience! > > We're still needing to get to the central South states, > so over the next year or two that's going to be on our > list. Then we'll go revisit them all. :) > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:53 PM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOPA magazine Not sure what happened that he completely yanked his site. I'm guessing he got slapped with a lawsuit or something that he completely dropped out of cyberspace. If you use this link it will take you to the Internet Archive copy of his site at various points in time. Some of the links on the site might be broken and some of the pictures might not come up but it's mostly all there. It's funny how I can find my first couple emails ever from back in 92 by googling my name along with every single post I ever made to this list "do not archiv" or not. :) http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.rvproject.com Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:38 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine Reminder how to find the old Checkoway site would be nice. I recall several things that I would like to refresh on. RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > > Ya guys, no embarrassing Tim lest he take his website offline ala Checkoway. Of course Dan forgot about a little something called the Internet Archive. As the kids of today are learning, once on the Internet, it's there forever. :) > > Michael > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:32 PM PST US From: Bill Mauledriver Watson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? Yes, I've heard and seen that the normal cruise position has them slightly reflexed. Marginal but touche' The Maule has a -8 degree position that's supposed to speed you up in cruise. I can imagine it might in the higher powered models but definitely not in the 180. I've really tried... but you only get worse visibility and the same speed. Great for transitioning to a 'high speed' run down the ILS The LS6 had or 1 or 2 reflex detents to -8. You actually felt a satisfying acceleration when going reflex. The PIK20b had -8 thru +90 for landing. Maybe I'll never have a straight wing. Rene Felker wrote: > > The flaps on the -10 are reflex.......3 degrees....your next plane will have > to be the first without reflex flaps... > > Rene' Felker > RV-10 N423CF Flying > 801-721-6080 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mauledriver > Watson > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:41 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? > > > > You are killing me Tim! I can barely face the Maule for a CC jaunt > anymore. It's just too slow. > > Before starting the '10, we flew the heck out of our Maule from northern > NY to Key West. From the Outer Banks to Houston. All from our homebase > in Durham NC. For the Maule, that's not so much a regional limit as a > butts-in-seats issue. The hour long leg is not a bad thing either as > long as you do it often. We were lucky enough to have a mission most > weekends for a 2 hour out and return. Nothing like a schedule to > exercise the IFR chops. > > I wouldn't want to knock the builders who don't feel the need to take > off for parts unknown. Some of us are in this to build, others may > prefer a sport acro session in a single digit RV, and some just like to > pound the patch. But the '10 is my dream of a magic carpet. As much as > I'm enjoying the build, I can hardly wait to fly it. > > I have several dream trips I hope to make if the fates allow. Cuba is > one I've been dreaming of since the '10 was announced. I figured > private flights there would once again be possible in my lifetime.... > and I feel like it's real close. Alaska is another big dream trip. > Cancun is an extension of the Cuba dream. In general, I'd love to fly > out west. I've towed and flown my old sailplane out in New Mexico, > Montana and Nevada but an engine seems like it could be almost as much fun. > > One of the most exciting thoughts is that the '10, when compared to the > Maule, can be more economical in terms of fuel. On a long leg in the > Maule, I average 9 Gals/hour. If the winds don't fight me, I can do 110 > knots. Some rough math suggests that Durham to Tampa is 40 gallons in > the Maule but perhaps 35 gallons in the '10. But more important, it's > less time in the seat with an AP thrown in for kicks. Nice! > > Bill "working through the FAB thinking how nice the other 99.9% of the > kit is" Watson > > footnotes: > RV10, 40605, 3 years in the making, username = Tigressa, password Osh10kosh > 1996 Maule, 180hp, fixed in all respects except for constantly chipping > paint, 1,300 hours > missing my 1986 Rolladen-Schneider LS6b 15meter racing sailplane, > retractable, laminar flow, ballasted, and still faster than the Maule > formerly operator of a PIK20b, terrorizer of many a cow, may she RIP > (the '10 will be my first plane without reflex flaps - how strange is that?) > > > Tim Olson wrote: > >> >> One thing I see lots of is that people like to fly to >> things in their own backyards, but they don't always >> want to go somewhere further. (with the normal exception >> of OSH) I find it funny that I know a lot of builders >> on the East Coast who go all over the East, but seldom >> consider going West of the Rockies. Then I know a lot >> of folks West of the Rockies and they've never been out >> East. Same when you divide North from South. Personally, >> I think people should use these "magic carpets" to shrink >> their world a little bit further and not be afraid to >> venture from coast to coast, even for a good fly-in. >> I added a day of just hanging out in my last Oregon >> trip, yet did that trip as what basically was designed >> to be a 4 day weekend. Last fall we did the East Coast >> and flew NYC's hudson in a 4 day trip. You can do an >> awful lot with 4 or 5 days, so I say, go enjoy the sky >> for a while. The RV-10 really makes it possible to >> be ANYWHERE in the continental US with a fairly easy 2 >> days of flying. So get out of your own backyard and >> go visit somewhere else...there's just so much to >> see and experience! >> >> We're still needing to get to the central South states, >> so over the next year or two that's going to be on our >> list. Then we'll go revisit them all. :) >> >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD >> do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:52 PM PST US From: Don McDonald Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? Deems, and you other AZ 10 guys, we are flying (at least that's the plan) t o Sedona on 9-4 for a week.- It would be nice to at least meet up.... eit her in Sedona, or we could stop on the way there or on our return trip.- -I'm sure we'll have a spare day or so to fly... and for that day-or so we have-accomodations for you as well. Don McDonald- --- On Wed, 8/26/09, Deems Davis wrote: From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? Tim you might want to consider Copperstate as an alternate to LOE this year . I've heard the same about LOE, great for RV'rs but not much else to do. C opperstate is not so large that flying in and out during the event is the c hallenge it is @ OSH. Tie in a visit to Sedona, Grand Canyon, Monument Vall ey,- Puerto Penasco, San Diego, Las Vegas ??? We'll make it worth your wh ile. I'll fly part way out to meet you so you can have a -10 to look at on your way inbound :-) Deems drumming up Copperstate attendance Davis Tim Olson wrote: > > I think gatherings would be fun, but, there is a downside sometimes. > If you go somewhere with tons to do, then nobody does any flying, > and there is too much draw to go visit other things.- On the > other hand, if you go somewhere lame, then there is only flying > to do, and the family will get bored.- So personally, I really > like the idea of gathering in one spot, and flying around > to a couple others....kind of like the last couple trips I > did like meeting David Maib and Vic and heading to Key West, > or metting Scott and heading to Oregon.- That makes for a great > FLYING vacation where you can camp or see things too. > > This year I was considering LOE for a fly-in since it's been > a while, but, at the same time, it's not really a super destination > for the kids and family....you basically will love it if you > just want to hang out with other builders, and you can > fly all day long if you want.- But, you hang out at the > airport a lot.- OSH is a great GATHERING but not the most > convenient place to do lots of flying.- What would make > OSH more fun is if people would meet up along the way, > and the closer you got, the more people you had. > > So it's hard because everyone has a varied agenda of what > they'd like.- I don't think I'll be at LOE this year, > but I know I'll be flying a couple more times on trips by > the end of the year.- It's always nice to fly along and look > out the window and see another RV-10. :) > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > > > > Deems Davis wrote: >> >> I like this idea ... RV10 gathering/s. OSH is definitely a great gatheri ng, but I'd love to see if there's any interest in getting together somewhe re with some other builder/flyers. I think the biggest attraction to OSH fo r me is just getting to visit with other similarly 'infected' types. >> >> I monitor the SoCal RV list, and they routinely have several posts each week where several people connect and either meet somewhere or fly somewher e together.- I realize we're spread across the US and the logistics are g reatly expanded, but it would be nice if we developed into the kind of grou p that routinely met and flew together either regionally or otherwise. >> >> What if people just used this list to post ideas about where, who, and w hen they would like to take a trip with some others? and let people natural ly connect? If it turns out to be a benefit, who know someone might set up part of a website as an " I want to take a trip' bulletin board. >> >> Deems Davis N519PJ >> http://deemsrv10.com/index.html >> >> Tim Olson wrote: >>> >>> I just do it to try to get you all to finish up so we can have >>> some great RV-10 gatherings. :) >>> Tim >>> > > > > > > le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:35 PM PST US From: Miller John Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine You can carry a simple memory stick with the entire RV 10 plans on it for convenient use whenever needed! I do! grumpy N184JM On Aug 27, 2009, at 4:00 PM, David McNeill wrote: > > Boulders need to carry some tools and spare parts on their flights. > I have > had a major FBO at Austin tell me that since they have no > maintenance manual > for my Glastar that they can not work on it. They offered free use > of their > hangar and tools but I must fix it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly > McMullen > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:15 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine > > > > Or the mechanically capable owner that is able to find an amenable > A&P to > supervise properly restoring the aircraft to what it should be. > I do carry 30-40lbs of tools on most flights, more if planning to do > inspection or repair. > Kelly > A&P/IA > > Patrick Thyssen wrote: >> Tim, >> Maybe it's the owner who wants their plane to look like shit and not >> pay an honest amount of money to fix it. You can always find some one >> to do work and sighn it off. >> But its the owner who has to say do it right. And Pay. >> Patrick Thyssen >> A&P >> I don't carry 100 lbs of tools in my planes and neither do my >> customers. >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:43 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOPA magazine My USB memory has RV10 plans, technical manuals for the avionics, operation guides,etc If one is prepare, I rarely find use for same. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Miller John Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 7:15 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine You can carry a simple memory stick with the entire RV 10 plans on it for convenient use whenever needed! I do! grumpy N184JM On Aug 27, 2009, at 4:00 PM, David McNeill wrote: > > Boulders need to carry some tools and spare parts on their flights. > I have > had a major FBO at Austin tell me that since they have no maintenance > manual for my Glastar that they can not work on it. They offered free > use of their hangar and tools but I must fix it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly > McMullen > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:15 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine > > > > Or the mechanically capable owner that is able to find an amenable A&P > to supervise properly restoring the aircraft to what it should be. > I do carry 30-40lbs of tools on most flights, more if planning to do > inspection or repair. > Kelly > A&P/IA > > Patrick Thyssen wrote: >> Tim, >> Maybe it's the owner who wants their plane to look like shit and not >> pay an honest amount of money to fix it. You can always find some one >> to do work and sighn it off. >> But its the owner who has to say do it right. And Pay. >> Patrick Thyssen >> A&P >> I don't carry 100 lbs of tools in my planes and neither do my >> customers. >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:04 PM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? Now thats what I'm talking about !!!!!!!!! ;-) Seriously, we're only a short flight from Sedona, and would love to hook up with you while you/re here. There's an RV-10 in Prescott as well. Sedona is an interesting airport. It sits on the top of a 500' mesa, normally, you land one way (uphill) and take off the other. The elevation differences on the ends of the runway is 100'. There is some really amazing 'red rock' formations in the area. It would make for some REALLY neat air-to-air shots with your freshly painted plane in the foreground. (I've got a camera that should be up to the task). Deems Don McDonald wrote: > Deems, and you other AZ 10 guys, we are flying (at least that's the > plan) to Sedona on 9-4 for a week. It would be nice to at least meet > up.... either in Sedona, or we could stop on the way there or on our > return trip. I'm sure we'll have a spare day or so to fly... and for > that day or so we have accomodations for you as well. > Don McDonald > > --- On *Wed, 8/26/09, Deems Davis //* wrote: > > > From: Deems Davis > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering > ???? > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 12:09 PM > > > > > Tim you might want to consider Copperstate as an alternate to LOE > this year. I've heard the same about LOE, great for RV'rs but not > much else to do. Copperstate is not so large that flying in and > out during the event is the challenge it is @ OSH. Tie in a visit > to Sedona, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Puerto Penasco, San > Diego, Las Vegas ??? We'll make it worth your while. I'll fly part > way out to meet you so you can have a -10 to look at on your way > inbound :-) > > > Deems drumming up Copperstate attendance Davis > > Tim Olson wrote: > > > > > > I think gatherings would be fun, but, there is a downside sometimes. > > If you go somewhere with tons to do, then nobody does any flying, > > and there is too much draw to go visit other things. On the > > other hand, if you go somewhere lame, then there is only flying > > to do, and the family will get bored. So personally, I really > > like the idea of gathering in one spot, and flying around > > to a couple others....kind of like the last couple trips I > > did like meeting David Maib and Vic and heading to Key West, > > or metting Scott and heading to Oregon. That makes for a great > > FLYING vacation where you can camp or see things too. > > > > This year I was considering LOE for a fly-in since it's been > > a while, but, at the same time, it's not really a super destination > > for the kids and family....you basically will love it if you > > just want to hang out with other builders, and you can > > fly all day long if you want. But, you hang out at the > > airport a lot. OSH is a great GATHERING but not the most > > convenient place to do lots of flying. What would make > > OSH more fun is if people would meet up along the way, > > and the closer you got, the more people you had. > > > > So it's hard because everyone has a varied agenda of what > > they'd like. I don't think I'll be at LOE this year, > > but I know I'll be flying a couple more times on trips by > > the end of the year. It's always nice to fly along and look > > out the window and see another RV-10. :) > > > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > > > > > > > > Deems Davis wrote: > > > >> > >> I like this idea ... RV10 gathering/s. OSH is definitely a > great gathering, but I'd love to see if there's any interest in > getting together somewhere with some other builder/flyers. I think > the biggest attraction to OSH for me is just getting to visit with > other similarly 'infected' types. > >> > >> I monitor the SoCal RV list, and they routinely have several > posts each week where several people connect and either meet > somewhere or fly somewhere together. I realize we're spread > across the US and the logistics are greatly expanded, but it would > be nice if we developed into the kind of group that routinely met > and flew together either regionally or otherwise. > >> > >> What if people just used this list to post ideas about where, > who, and when they would like to take a trip with some others? and > let people naturally connect? If it turns out to be a benefit, who > know someone might set up part of a website as an " I want to take > a trip' bulletin board. > >> > >> Deems Davis N519PJ > >> http://deemsrv10.com/index.html > >> > >> Tim Olson wrote: > > > >>> > >>> I just do it to try to get you all to finish up so we can have > >>> some great RV-10 gatherings. :) > >>> Tim > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1bsp; - > MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -nbsp; > ="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" > target=_blank>http://www.matro==================== > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:22 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering -Copperstate !! From: "woxofswa" Thanks for the kind words. Last year was a lot of fun and I am planning on a repeat if there is sufficient interest. The only difference is that if we do a dinner it will probably have to be Friday night as my granddaughter's birthday party is scheduled for Saturday afternoon. As we get closer I'll need a rough estimate on how many to expect for dinner. -------- Myron Nelson Mesa, AZ Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260145#260145 ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:35 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOPA magazine From: "Robin Marks" I know nothing about nothing regarding Dan's site but he was a bit like Tim on Steroids as far as participation and I can EASILY see how a family crisis requiring one to reconsider how and with whom one chooses to spend their time and decide to close the books on all the RV participation. To some RV talk is like heroin (only more expensive). While I miss his site I can appreciate how someone would make the hard decision to unplug. I have to respect the need for privacy. Robin Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:14 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOPA magazine Not sure what happened that he completely yanked his site. I'm guessing he got slapped with a lawsuit or something that he completely dropped out of cyberspace. If you use this link it will take you to the Internet Archive copy of his site at various points in time. Some of the links on the site might be broken and some of the pictures might not come up but it's mostly all there. It's funny how I can find my first couple emails ever from back in 92 by googling my name along with every single post I ever made to this list "do not archiv" or not. :) http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.rvproject.com Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:38 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine Reminder how to find the old Checkoway site would be nice. I recall several things that I would like to refresh on. RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > > Ya guys, no embarrassing Tim lest he take his website offline ala Checkoway. Of course Dan forgot about a little something called the Internet Archive. As the kids of today are learning, once on the Internet, it's there forever. :) > > Michael > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:21 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? From: "Robin Marks" On a recent trip to AZ I did a few landings at Payson (PAY) between Deems & Sedona. It was beautiful there, more like Colorado than AZ (5,200 MSL). Looked like a really cool diner on the airport edge overlooking the runway. The type of place people use as a destination to ride their Harleys to on the weekend. Check it out. As I remember it was also the cheapest fuel in the area (but check me on that). Payson also where I learned that landing at 80 Knots gets you to land exactly on the 1,000' markers. The far 1,000' markers. :-) Robin -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:23 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? Now thats what I'm talking about !!!!!!!!! ;-) Seriously, we're only a short flight from Sedona, and would love to hook up with you while you/re here. There's an RV-10 in Prescott as well. Sedona is an interesting airport. It sits on the top of a 500' mesa, normally, you land one way (uphill) and take off the other. The elevation differences on the ends of the runway is 100'. There is some really amazing 'red rock' formations in the area. It would make for some REALLY neat air-to-air shots with your freshly painted plane in the foreground. (I've got a camera that should be up to the task). Deems Don McDonald wrote: > Deems, and you other AZ 10 guys, we are flying (at least that's the > plan) to Sedona on 9-4 for a week. It would be nice to at least meet > up.... either in Sedona, or we could stop on the way there or on our > return trip. I'm sure we'll have a spare day or so to fly... and for > that day or so we have accomodations for you as well. > Don McDonald > > --- On *Wed, 8/26/09, Deems Davis //* wrote: > > > From: Deems Davis > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering > ???? > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 12:09 PM > > > > > Tim you might want to consider Copperstate as an alternate to LOE > this year. I've heard the same about LOE, great for RV'rs but not > much else to do. Copperstate is not so large that flying in and > out during the event is the challenge it is @ OSH. Tie in a visit > to Sedona, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Puerto Penasco, San > Diego, Las Vegas ??? We'll make it worth your while. I'll fly part > way out to meet you so you can have a -10 to look at on your way > inbound :-) > > > Deems drumming up Copperstate attendance Davis > > Tim Olson wrote: > > > > > > I think gatherings would be fun, but, there is a downside sometimes. > > If you go somewhere with tons to do, then nobody does any flying, > > and there is too much draw to go visit other things. On the > > other hand, if you go somewhere lame, then there is only flying > > to do, and the family will get bored. So personally, I really > > like the idea of gathering in one spot, and flying around > > to a couple others....kind of like the last couple trips I > > did like meeting David Maib and Vic and heading to Key West, > > or metting Scott and heading to Oregon. That makes for a great > > FLYING vacation where you can camp or see things too. > > > > This year I was considering LOE for a fly-in since it's been > > a while, but, at the same time, it's not really a super destination > > for the kids and family....you basically will love it if you > > just want to hang out with other builders, and you can > > fly all day long if you want. But, you hang out at the > > airport a lot. OSH is a great GATHERING but not the most > > convenient place to do lots of flying. What would make > > OSH more fun is if people would meet up along the way, > > and the closer you got, the more people you had. > > > > So it's hard because everyone has a varied agenda of what > > they'd like. I don't think I'll be at LOE this year, > > but I know I'll be flying a couple more times on trips by > > the end of the year. It's always nice to fly along and look > > out the window and see another RV-10. :) > > > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > > > > > > > > Deems Davis wrote: > > > >> > >> I like this idea ... RV10 gathering/s. OSH is definitely a > great gathering, but I'd love to see if there's any interest in > getting together somewhere with some other builder/flyers. I think > the biggest attraction to OSH for me is just getting to visit with > other similarly 'infected' types. > >> > >> I monitor the SoCal RV list, and they routinely have several > posts each week where several people connect and either meet > somewhere or fly somewhere together. I realize we're spread > across the US and the logistics are greatly expanded, but it would > be nice if we developed into the kind of group that routinely met > and flew together either regionally or otherwise. > >> > >> What if people just used this list to post ideas about where, > who, and when they would like to take a trip with some others? and > let people naturally connect? If it turns out to be a benefit, who > know someone might set up part of a website as an " I want to take > a trip' bulletin board. > >> > >> Deems Davis N519PJ > >> http://deemsrv10.com/index.html > >> > >> Tim Olson wrote: > > > >>> > >>> I just do it to try to get you all to finish up so we can have > >>> some great RV-10 gatherings. :) > >>> Tim > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1bsp; - > MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -nbsp; > ="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" > target=_blank>http://www.matro==================== > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:22 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOPA magazine From: John Cox Humbly corrected. AOPA said 200 and I meant to say 228 with pictures for m ore than 128 painted birds. The quality is sure improving, as are the numb er of well financed purchasers of Pro built 10's. I love Newman & Combs. John Cox From: Rene Felker Sent: Thu 8/27/2009 12:10 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOPA magazine ...... Flying 128/ Sold 983 leaving 755...... Looks like a typo, I think you meant 228 flying and that is 28 above what Vans shows. I am guessing that your number is more accurate since Vans only reports what they are told by the builders and not all builders tell Vans that they are flying. Rene' Felker RV-10 N423CF Flying 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:42 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOPA magazine Dr. Peeler holds a recent Commercial with Instrument ticket and has authorizations for TBMs and T-33 but doesn't show a Repairman cert for his fine AOPA magazined Raddatz built aircraft. This is similar to Scott Gustafson's and ten other Raddatz builds that are flying. With the final interpretation about to be chiseled in granite by the Fed, the 51% rule is allowing many RV-10s built by Professionals to be purchased and flown by individuals of means and the passion to join this group of flying RV-10's. As Tony Soprano would say on the subject of caring not in the feeding a maintenance of such birds.... Forgetaboutit. There are many who say they did the work of others or color their prose a bit to get the airworthiness. It was light years ago that a ragtag group of Yahoo fans migrated here in hopes of a builder forum for RV-10 builders. Our insurance pool will soon be made up of the wide swath of interested RV-10 operators (some not builders). Unless an insurance company creates a better financial deal for an improved gene pool of "builder" aircraft, we become a product of our own success with well financed Dr. Peeler's of the RV-10 community. AOPA reported in the article 100 completed and another 1000 sold. My numbers are just a bit off that projection. Flying 128/ Sold 983 leaving 755 of us out in the cold lusting after the first group that's flying with all those stories and romantic getaways. I concur that AOPA and EAA should both do an article on the raising and feeding of the Olson clan while completing N104CD. Can anyone trump Tim's accomplishments on the RV-10? John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Miller John Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:08 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOPA magazine AOPA should have done the article on Tim....... And wonder if Peeler got a repairman's certificate as well? grumpy N184JM do not archive On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > I tend to get a bit irked when someone say "doesn't have the time > or skills". > Also, I saw a posting on another forum recently where someone > said that they didn't build their plane, and that now they > have some maintenance they need to do, but they don't know > how to do it. > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > do not archive > > > Dave Saylor wrote: >> >>Peeler, a physician, said he doesn't have the time or skills to >> build an airplane like the RV-10, which requires at least 2,000 >> hours for a veteran builder to assemble. But he says he complies >> with the letter and spirit of the regulations by only using his >> aircraft for private, noncommercial purposes and hiring >> professional mechanics to perform the required inspections. >> "I'm not the builder of this airplane and I don't pretend to be," >> he said.<< >> http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=430 WP >> He pretended to be the builder when he applied for the AW cert, and >> had his signature notarized stating he was the builder on the >> 8130-12. He may have some 'splain'n to do... >> Dave Saylor >> AirCrafters LLC >> 140 Aviation Way >> Watsonville, CA 95076 >> 831-722-9141 Shop >> 831-750-0284 Cell > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.