Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:20 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 Article (John Cox)
2. 03:47 AM - Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (David McNeill)
3. 03:54 AM - Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (David McNeill)
4. 05:13 AM - "Gretz" Pitot Tube (Barry Marz)
5. 05:22 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 Article (Kelly McMullen)
6. 05:25 AM - Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Kelly McMullen)
7. 06:05 AM - Ordered 10 sb complete kit after 5 yrs of dreaming. (rv10flyer)
8. 06:41 AM - Re: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Patrick Thyssen)
9. 07:18 AM - Re: Ordered 10 sb complete kit after 5 yrs of dreaming. (Kelly McMullen)
10. 07:22 AM - Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (richard sipp)
11. 08:49 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 Article (John Cox)
12. 08:50 AM - A kid.. Really?? (Perry, Phil)
13. 08:50 AM - Re: "Gretz" Pitot Tube (Matt Dralle)
14. 08:57 AM - Filling empenage tip fairings (Bill Cannon)
15. 09:45 AM - Re: Ordered 10 sb complete kit after 5 yrs of dreaming. (Bill DeRouchey)
16. 09:56 AM - Re: A kid.. Really?? (orchidman)
17. 10:48 AM - Re: A kid.. Really?? (Pascal)
18. 10:48 AM - Re: A kid.. Really?? (John Cumins)
19. 01:43 PM - Re: A kid.. Really?? (Ben Westfall)
20. 02:25 PM - Re: Re: RV-10 Article (Kelly McMullen)
21. 03:44 PM - Re: A kid.. Really?? (Richard Bibb)
22. 04:44 PM - Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar (John Trollinger)
23. 05:15 PM - Re: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar (Seano)
24. 05:18 PM - Re: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar (David Maib)
25. 05:18 PM - Re: A kid.. Really?? (Seano)
26. 05:24 PM - Re: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar (Jesse Saint)
27. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
28. 05:42 PM - Re: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar (John Trollinger)
29. 06:06 PM - Re: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Deems Davis)
30. 07:16 PM - Re: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? (Tim Olson)
31. 08:32 PM - Re: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar (Ed Godfrey)
32. 08:49 PM - Re: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar (Seano)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Article |
Thanks Dave for setting Mr. Hirschman straight. I know that Stein and Rob
Hickman both felt Steven Raddatz Production aircraft for immediate resale w
ere, in their words -beautiful. Others will follow in his footsteps to fil
l the "Peeler Need". I have seen far prettier and more valued features in
OBAM projects actually built by the pilots. So much so that I am going to
take my critical attitude to the EAA for consideration as a 2010 AirVenture
Judge. Many of you amatuer builders deserve some well earned accolades...
.Nicely Done! Let's shout it to those wanting RV-10s. Kit #984 is on the
floor at Van's.
The Peeler paperwork did not acknowledge Mr. Raddatz's contribution nor his
many other repeditive financial successes while so slowly learning.. Oh ya
h, it was for remedial education and continueing financial enjoyment. It d
id credit the check Dr Peeler and his commercial pilot wife wrote, leaving
a distinct siren's call for future purchasers to look to Pro Built RV-10s a
gainst the sea of stouter built C-182s and faster SR-22s certified birds at
dealers. Maybe that is what the RV-10 policyholders now want?
As Dave Hirschman stated, (as a buyer but not yet a builder) he was well f
amiliar with the issues and knew what he was writing. He knows the FAA acc
epted Dr. Peeler as the builder and he published the passage that Peeler kn
ew what his Airworthiness certification statement meant... Peeler goes on
to say he had it professionally produced for him.
Anyone have that Granite rewritten language on 51% built aircraft available
so the rest of us get to use it finding the next Peeler?
John Cox
From: Dave Saylor
Sent: Thu 8/27/2009 11:10 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Article
Dave,
I copied my last reply to you to a bunch of RV-10 types on Matronics. You
said the builder passed away, and implied that the plane was amateur built.
..now I'm hearing that it was Steve Raddatz. Yes, he is deceased, but he w
as also a professional builder who it seems did not share your concern abou
t abuse of the AB category. So I stand by my original statement and I thin
k I'll shut up for a while before I make myself a bigger fool.
Dave Saylor
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Hirschman, Dave <Dave.Hirschman@aopa.org>
wrote:
Dear Dave Saylor,
I share your concerns about abuse of the Experimental category, and your po
int about explicitly spelling out the ownership trail in this case is well
taken.
Also, I like your idea about a "second owner" article, too. As a buyer (but
not yet a builder) of Experimental aircraft over the years, it's a subject
I'm personally very interested in . . .
Best,
Dave Hirschman
From: Dave Saylor [mailto:dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:50 PM
Cc: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-10 Article
Thank you, Dave. That's a reasonable and completely acceptable explanation
. FWIW, there are a lot of people who are concerned about people intending
to get around the rules, and this looked for all the world like one of tho
se cases. A line or two to set things straight might have been interesting
and informative to your audience. How about an article specifically addre
ssing "second owner" ins and outs?
Thanks again,
Dave Saylor
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Hirschman, Dave <Dave.Hirschman@aopa.org>
wrote:
Dear David Saylor,
Thanks very much for your e-mail and sharing your concerns about this airpl
ane.
I can assure you that David Peeler doesn't have the repairman's certificate
on this airplane. He bought it from the builder (who is now deceased).
The point of the RV-10 story was to highlight the tremendous utility and ca
pability of some Experimental category aircraft, even for non-builders like
David and Amy Peeler. My parents built a VariEze, and I'm an RV-3 owner, s
o I'm a big fan of the Experimental category . . .
Warm Regards,
Dave Hirschman
From: Dave Saylor [mailto:dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:41 PM
Subject: Fwd: RV-10 Article
Dear Mr. Hirschman,
I'm a 24-year AOPA member and an RV-10 builder/owner. I own and operate a
builder assistance center for amateur built aircraft, and I served on the F
AA's recent committee to review what is commonly known as the 51% rule.
I think you did a disservice to RV-10 builders specifically and all amateur
builders in general by printing certain quotes from David Peeler. Without
any valid explanation of the rule, you left the impression that Dr. Peeler
had someone build his plane. Yet, a quick check of the registration datab
ase clearly lists him as the manufacturer, but he claims he doesn't "preten
d to be" the builder...something's fishy.
There's nothing wrong with selling a plane that you built, as long as your
intentions were correct. And there's nothing wrong with hiring out certain
parts of the project. But in this case there's clearly more to the story,
and not knowing what it is or how it was addressed leaves a black mark.
I hope you can clear up the discrepancy. I'm not the only one who noticed.
Sincerely,
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
--
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
Message 2
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| Subject: | Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? |
One caution about Sedona. If the winds are strong from the Southwest you may
need to land at Flagstaff or Prescott and wait for more favorable weather.
The rotor effect is very strong with high winds and a landing to the
Southwest. Because the runway 21 is downhill, the approaching aircraft
falsely appears to be high. Check this.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 070418X00434&key=1. Sedona is
very nice but can be dangerous with strong SW winds.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ????
Now thats what I'm talking about !!!!!!!!! ;-) Seriously, we're only a
short flight from Sedona, and would love to hook up with you while you/re
here. There's an RV-10 in Prescott as well. Sedona is an interesting
airport. It sits on the top of a 500' mesa, normally, you land one way
(uphill) and take off the other. The elevation differences on the ends of
the runway is 100'. There is some really amazing 'red rock' formations in
the area. It would make for some REALLY neat air-to-air shots with your
freshly painted plane in the foreground.
(I've got a camera that should be up to the task).
Deems
Don McDonald wrote:
> Deems, and you other AZ 10 guys, we are flying (at least that's the
> plan) to Sedona on 9-4 for a week. It would be nice to at least meet
> up.... either in Sedona, or we could stop on the way there or on our
> return trip. I'm sure we'll have a spare day or so to fly... and for
> that day or so we have accomodations for you as well.
> Don McDonald
>
> --- On *Wed, 8/26/09, Deems Davis /<deemsdavis@cox.net>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering
> ????
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 12:09 PM
>
> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
>
> Tim you might want to consider Copperstate as an alternate to LOE
> this year. I've heard the same about LOE, great for RV'rs but not
> much else to do. Copperstate is not so large that flying in and
> out during the event is the challenge it is @ OSH. Tie in a visit
> to Sedona, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Puerto Penasco, San
> Diego, Las Vegas ??? We'll make it worth your while. I'll fly part
> way out to meet you so you can have a -10 to look at on your way
> inbound :-)
>
>
> Deems drumming up Copperstate attendance Davis
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
> >
> > I think gatherings would be fun, but, there is a downside sometimes.
> > If you go somewhere with tons to do, then nobody does any flying,
> > and there is too much draw to go visit other things. On the
> > other hand, if you go somewhere lame, then there is only flying
> > to do, and the family will get bored. So personally, I really
> > like the idea of gathering in one spot, and flying around
> > to a couple others....kind of like the last couple trips I
> > did like meeting David Maib and Vic and heading to Key West,
> > or metting Scott and heading to Oregon. That makes for a great
> > FLYING vacation where you can camp or see things too.
> >
> > This year I was considering LOE for a fly-in since it's been
> > a while, but, at the same time, it's not really a super destination
> > for the kids and family....you basically will love it if you
> > just want to hang out with other builders, and you can
> > fly all day long if you want. But, you hang out at the
> > airport a lot. OSH is a great GATHERING but not the most
> > convenient place to do lots of flying. What would make
> > OSH more fun is if people would meet up along the way,
> > and the closer you got, the more people you had.
> >
> > So it's hard because everyone has a varied agenda of what
> > they'd like. I don't think I'll be at LOE this year,
> > but I know I'll be flying a couple more times on trips by
> > the end of the year. It's always nice to fly along and look
> > out the window and see another RV-10. :)
> >
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> >
> >
> >
> > Deems Davis wrote:
> <deemsdavis@cox.net
> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
> >>
> >> I like this idea ... RV10 gathering/s. OSH is definitely a
> great gathering, but I'd love to see if there's any interest in
> getting together somewhere with some other builder/flyers. I think
> the biggest attraction to OSH for me is just getting to visit with
> other similarly 'infected' types.
> >>
> >> I monitor the SoCal RV list, and they routinely have several
> posts each week where several people connect and either meet
> somewhere or fly somewhere together. I realize we're spread
> across the US and the logistics are greatly expanded, but it would
> be nice if we developed into the kind of group that routinely met
> and flew together either regionally or otherwise.
> >>
> >> What if people just used this list to post ideas about where,
> who, and when they would like to take a trip with some others? and
> let people naturally connect? If it turns out to be a benefit, who
> know someone might set up part of a website as an " I want to take
> a trip' bulletin board.
> >>
> >> Deems Davis N519PJ
> >> http://deemsrv10.com/index.html
> >>
> >> Tim Olson wrote:
> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
> >>>
> >>> I just do it to try to get you all to finish up so we can have
> >>> some great RV-10 gatherings. :)
> >>> Tim
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1bsp; -
> MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -nbsp;
> ="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
> target=_blank>http://www.matro====================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 3
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| Subject: | Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? |
Payson diner is the Crosswinds Caf and for good reason. IIRC there are
windsocks at both ends and atop the caf. If wind conditions are strong they
can all be indicating different directions. Makes for an interesting
landing. Watch the approach speeds and keep them in reason so you land on
the part of the runway that matches your windsock. Runway 6 is downhill.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:36 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ????
On a recent trip to AZ I did a few landings at Payson (PAY) between Deems &
Sedona. It was beautiful there, more like Colorado than AZ (5,200 MSL).
Looked like a really cool diner on the airport edge overlooking the runway.
The type of place people use as a destination to ride their Harleys to on
the weekend. Check it out. As I remember it was also the cheapest fuel in
the area (but check me on that). Payson also where I learned that landing at
80 Knots gets you to land exactly on the 1,000' markers. The far 1,000'
markers. :-)
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ????
Now thats what I'm talking about !!!!!!!!! ;-) Seriously, we're only a
short flight from Sedona, and would love to hook up with you while you/re
here. There's an RV-10 in Prescott as well. Sedona is an interesting
airport. It sits on the top of a 500' mesa, normally, you land one way
(uphill) and take off the other. The elevation differences on the ends of
the runway is 100'. There is some really amazing 'red rock' formations in
the area. It would make for some REALLY neat air-to-air shots with your
freshly painted plane in the foreground.
(I've got a camera that should be up to the task).
Deems
Don McDonald wrote:
> Deems, and you other AZ 10 guys, we are flying (at least that's the
> plan) to Sedona on 9-4 for a week. It would be nice to at least meet
> up.... either in Sedona, or we could stop on the way there or on our
> return trip. I'm sure we'll have a spare day or so to fly... and for
> that day or so we have accomodations for you as well.
> Don McDonald
>
> --- On *Wed, 8/26/09, Deems Davis /<deemsdavis@cox.net>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering
> ????
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 12:09 PM
>
> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
>
> Tim you might want to consider Copperstate as an alternate to LOE
> this year. I've heard the same about LOE, great for RV'rs but not
> much else to do. Copperstate is not so large that flying in and
> out during the event is the challenge it is @ OSH. Tie in a visit
> to Sedona, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Puerto Penasco, San
> Diego, Las Vegas ??? We'll make it worth your while. I'll fly part
> way out to meet you so you can have a -10 to look at on your way
> inbound :-)
>
>
> Deems drumming up Copperstate attendance Davis
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
> >
> > I think gatherings would be fun, but, there is a downside
sometimes.
> > If you go somewhere with tons to do, then nobody does any
flying,
> > and there is too much draw to go visit other things. On the
> > other hand, if you go somewhere lame, then there is only flying
> > to do, and the family will get bored. So personally, I really
> > like the idea of gathering in one spot, and flying around
> > to a couple others....kind of like the last couple trips I
> > did like meeting David Maib and Vic and heading to Key West,
> > or metting Scott and heading to Oregon. That makes for a great
> > FLYING vacation where you can camp or see things too.
> >
> > This year I was considering LOE for a fly-in since it's been
> > a while, but, at the same time, it's not really a super
destination
> > for the kids and family....you basically will love it if you
> > just want to hang out with other builders, and you can
> > fly all day long if you want. But, you hang out at the
> > airport a lot. OSH is a great GATHERING but not the most
> > convenient place to do lots of flying. What would make
> > OSH more fun is if people would meet up along the way,
> > and the closer you got, the more people you had.
> >
> > So it's hard because everyone has a varied agenda of what
> > they'd like. I don't think I'll be at LOE this year,
> > but I know I'll be flying a couple more times on trips by
> > the end of the year. It's always nice to fly along and look
> > out the window and see another RV-10. :)
> >
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> >
> >
> >
> > Deems Davis wrote:
> <deemsdavis@cox.net
> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
> >>
> >> I like this idea ... RV10 gathering/s. OSH is definitely a
> great gathering, but I'd love to see if there's any interest in
> getting together somewhere with some other builder/flyers. I think
> the biggest attraction to OSH for me is just getting to visit with
> other similarly 'infected' types.
> >>
> >> I monitor the SoCal RV list, and they routinely have several
> posts each week where several people connect and either meet
> somewhere or fly somewhere together. I realize we're spread
> across the US and the logistics are greatly expanded, but it would
> be nice if we developed into the kind of group that routinely met
> and flew together either regionally or otherwise.
> >>
> >> What if people just used this list to post ideas about where,
> who, and when they would like to take a trip with some others? and
> let people naturally connect? If it turns out to be a benefit, who
> know someone might set up part of a website as an " I want to take
> a trip' bulletin board.
> >>
> >> Deems Davis N519PJ
> >> http://deemsrv10.com/index.html
> >>
> >> Tim Olson wrote:
> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
> >>>
> >>> I just do it to try to get you all to finish up so we can have
> >>> some great RV-10 gatherings. :)
> >>> Tim
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1bsp; -
> MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -nbsp;
> ="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
> target=_blank>http://www.matro====================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 4
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| Subject: | "Gretz" Pitot Tube |
I received a new pitot tube from Andrew Leopold with Angus Aviation
to replace my damaged one. All Andrew wanted was my old one back to
check why it failed. Andrew was very good to work with, and fixed my
problem. Blue Skys
Barry Marz
18735 Baseleg AVE.
FT. Myers, Fl 33917
239-567-2271
blalmarz@embarqmail.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Article |
I don't know when or if some feds will decide to crack the whip. All I
can say is there are some folks sitting in jail for failure to
disclose medical handicaps to the FAA for which other govt agencies
were paying compensation. There was a "mechanic" in Casa Grande
signing off repair work as an A&P who will spend some years in jail,
while his victims have to have work redone/reinspected. Of course some
of his "customers" might have suspected what he was doing. I have to
believe some feds read the AOPA mag. I sure wouldn't want to throw
such a red flag in front of a bull like the Peelers did.
Do Not Archive
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:19 AM, John Cox<johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
> The Peeler paperwork did not acknowledge Mr. Raddatz's contribution nor his
> many otherrepeditive financial successes while so slowly learning..
>
> As Dave Hirschman stated, (as a buyer but not yet a builder) he was well
> familiar with the issues and knew what he was writing. He knows the FAA
> acceptedDr. Peeler as the builder and he published the passage that Peeler
> knew what his Airworthiness certification statement meant... Peeler goes on
> to say he had it professionally produced for him.
>
> Anyone have that Granite rewritten language on 51% built aircraft available
> so the rest of us get to use it finding the next Peeler?
>
>
> John Cox
> ________________________________
> From: Dave Saylor
> Sent: Thu 8/27/2009 11:10 AM
> To: Hirschman, Dave
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Article
>
> Dave,
>
> I copied my last reply to you to a bunch of RV-10 types on Matronics. You
> said the builder passed away, and implied that the plane was amateur
> built...now I'm hearing that it was Steve Raddatz. Yes, he is deceased, but
> he was also a professional builder who it seems did not share your concern
> about abuse of the AB category. So I stand by my original statement and I
> think I'll shut up for a while before I make myself a bigger fool.
>
> Dave Saylor
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Hirschman, Dave <Dave.Hirschman@aopa.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Dave Saylor,
>> I share your concerns about abuse of the Experimental category, and your
>> point about explicitly spelling out the ownership trail in this case is well
>> taken.
>> Also, I like your idea about a "second owner" article, too. As a buyer
>> (but not yet a builder) of Experimental aircraft over the years, it's a
>> subject I'm personally very interested in . . .
>> Best,
>>
>> Dave Hirschman
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Dave Saylor [mailto:dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:50 PM
>> To: Hirschman, Dave
>> Cc: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-10 Article
>>
>> Thank you, Dave. That's a reasonable and completely acceptable
>> explanation. FWIW, there are a lot of people who are concerned about people
>> intending to get around the rules, and this looked for all the world like
>> one of those cases. A line or two to set things straight might have been
>> interesting and informative to your audience. How about an article
>> specifically addressing "second owner" ins and outs?
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> Dave Saylor
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Hirschman, Dave <Dave.Hirschman@aopa.org>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear David Saylor,
>>>
>>> Thanks very much for your e-mail and sharing your concerns about this
>>> airplane.
>>> I can assure you that David Peeler doesn't have the repairman's
>>> certificate on this airplane. He bought it from the builder (who is now
>>> deceased).
>>> The point of the RV-10 story was to highlight the tremendous utility and
>>> capability of some Experimental category aircraft, evenfor non-builders
>>> like David and Amy Peeler. My parents built a VariEze, and I'm an RV-3
>>> owner, so I'm abig fan ofthe Experimental category . . .
>>> Warm Regards,
>>>
>>> Dave Hirschman
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Dave Saylor [mailto:dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:41 PM
>>> To: Hirschman, Dave
>>> Subject: Fwd: RV-10 Article
>>>
>>> Dear Mr. Hirschman,
>>>
>>> I'm a 24-year AOPA member and an RV-10 builder/owner. I own and operate
>>> a builder assistance center for amateur built aircraft, and I served on the
>>> FAA's recent committee to review what is commonly known as the 51% rule.
>>>
>>> I think you did a disservice to RV-10 builders specifically and all
>>> amateur builders in general by printing certain quotes from David Peeler.
>>> Without any valid explanation of the rule, you left the impression that Dr.
>>> Peeler had someone build his plane. Yet, a quick check of the registration
>>> database clearly lists him as the manufacturer, but he claims he doesn't
>>> "pretend to be" the builder...something's fishy.
>>>
>>> There's nothing wrong with selling a plane that you built, as long as
>>> your intentions were correct. And there's nothing wrong with hiring out
>>> certain parts of the project. But in this case there's clearly more to the
>>> story, and not knowing what it is or how it was addressed leaves a black
>>> mark.
>>>
>>> I hope you can clear up the discrepancy. I'm not the only one who
>>> noticed.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Dave Saylor
>>> AirCrafters LLC
>>> 140 Aviation Way
>>> Watsonville, CA 95076
>>> 831-722-9141 Shop
>>> 831-750-0284 Cell
>
>
> --
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters LLC
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA 95076
> 831-722-9141 Shop
> 831-750-0284 Cell
>
>
> get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> p://forums.matronics.com/
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? |
Payson is a local favorite for breakfast runs, along with Sedona and
Prescott. However, it is not a cheap fuel spot. St. Johns, 30 min
further east will be the low price in the state most of the time,
closely followed by Casa Grande and Eloy. Eloy is a full time jump
school, requiring attention for jump planes and non-standard pattern,
has a cafe on field.
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:35 PM, Robin Marks<robin1@mrmoisture.com> wrote:
>
> On a recent trip to AZ I did a few landings at Payson (PAY) between
> Deems & Sedona. It was beautiful there, more like Colorado than AZ
> (5,200 MSL). Looked like a really cool diner on the airport edge
> overlooking the runway. The type of place people use as a destination to
> ride their Harleys to on the weekend. Check it out. As I remember it was
> also the cheapest fuel in the area (but check me on that). Payson also
> where I learned that landing at 80 Knots gets you to land exactly on the
> 1,000' markers. The far 1,000' markers. :-)
>
> Robin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:23 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ????
>
>
> Now thats what I'm talking about !!!!!!!!! ;-) Seriously, we're only a
> short flight from Sedona, and would love to hook up with you while
> you/re here. There's an RV-10 in Prescott as well. Sedona is an
> interesting airport. It sits on the top of a 500' mesa, normally, you
> land one way (uphill) and take off the other. The elevation differences
> on the ends of the runway is 100'. There is some really amazing 'red
> rock' formations in the area. It would make for some REALLY neat
> air-to-air shots with your freshly painted plane in the foreground.
> (I've got a camera that should be up to the task).
>
> Deems
>
>
> Don McDonald wrote:
>> Deems, and you other AZ 10 guys, we are flying (at least that's the
>> plan) to Sedona on 9-4 for a week. It would be nice to at least meet
>> up.... either in Sedona, or we could stop on the way there or on our
>> return trip. I'm sure we'll have a spare day or so to fly... and for
>> that day or so we have accomodations for you as well.
>> Don McDonald
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 8/26/09, Deems Davis /<deemsdavis@cox.net>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering
>> ????
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 12:09 PM
>>
>> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
>>
>> Tim you might want to consider Copperstate as an alternate to LOE
>> this year. I've heard the same about LOE, great for RV'rs but not
>> much else to do. Copperstate is not so large that flying in and
>> out during the event is the challenge it is @ OSH. Tie in a visit
>> to Sedona, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Puerto Penasco, San
>> Diego, Las Vegas ??? We'll make it worth your while. I'll fly part
>> way out to meet you so you can have a -10 to look at on your way
>> inbound :-)
>>
>>
>> Deems drumming up Copperstate attendance Davis
>>
>> Tim Olson wrote:
>> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
>> >
>> > I think gatherings would be fun, but, there is a downside
> sometimes.
>> > If you go somewhere with tons to do, then nobody does any
> flying,
>> > and there is too much draw to go visit other things. On the
>> > other hand, if you go somewhere lame, then there is only flying
>> > to do, and the family will get bored. So personally, I really
>> > like the idea of gathering in one spot, and flying around
>> > to a couple others....kind of like the last couple trips I
>> > did like meeting David Maib and Vic and heading to Key West,
>> > or metting Scott and heading to Oregon. That makes for a great
>> > FLYING vacation where you can camp or see things too.
>> >
>> > This year I was considering LOE for a fly-in since it's been
>> > a while, but, at the same time, it's not really a super
> destination
>> > for the kids and family....you basically will love it if you
>> > just want to hang out with other builders, and you can
>> > fly all day long if you want. But, you hang out at the
>> > airport a lot. OSH is a great GATHERING but not the most
>> > convenient place to do lots of flying. What would make
>> > OSH more fun is if people would meet up along the way,
>> > and the closer you got, the more people you had.
>> >
>> > So it's hard because everyone has a varied agenda of what
>> > they'd like. I don't think I'll be at LOE this year,
>> > but I know I'll be flying a couple more times on trips by
>> > the end of the year. It's always nice to fly along and look
>> > out the window and see another RV-10. :)
>> >
>> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Deems Davis wrote:
>> <deemsdavis@cox.net
>> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
>> >>
>> >> I like this idea ... RV10 gathering/s. OSH is definitely a
>> great gathering, but I'd love to see if there's any interest in
>> getting together somewhere with some other builder/flyers. I think
>> the biggest attraction to OSH for me is just getting to visit with
>> other similarly 'infected' types.
>> >>
>> >> I monitor the SoCal RV list, and they routinely have several
>> posts each week where several people connect and either meet
>> somewhere or fly somewhere together. I realize we're spread
>> across the US and the logistics are greatly expanded, but it would
>> be nice if we developed into the kind of group that routinely met
>> and flew together either regionally or otherwise.
>> >>
>> >> What if people just used this list to post ideas about where,
>> who, and when they would like to take a trip with some others? and
>> let people naturally connect? If it turns out to be a benefit, who
>> know someone might set up part of a website as an " I want to take
>> a trip' bulletin board.
>> >>
>> >> Deems Davis N519PJ
>> >> http://deemsrv10.com/index.html
>> >>
>> >> Tim Olson wrote:
>> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I just do it to try to get you all to finish up so we can have
>> >>> some great RV-10 gatherings. :)
>> >>> Tim
>> >>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1bsp; -
>> MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -nbsp;
>> ="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
>> target=_blank>http://www.matro====================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Ordered 10 sb complete kit after 5 yrs of dreaming. |
Hello. I am a low time(92 hrs) pilot tired of renting 172's. With a wife, two
kids(6+9 yrs), 20 lbs baggage the 172S is at max gross. They enjoy the traveling
and the view. I have A&P from 88-93 military service, which helps not to
get so nervous about everything. This is a huge project and will cost almost
as much as it cost to build our house. We built the house ourselves and it took
about 3 yrs total. I am hoping for about the same on the 10. It is nice
to have all this information available if needed. Thanks.
--------
Wayne Gillispie
Builder #40983
RV-10 Kit Ordered 8/24/09
Grayson, Kentucky
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260181#260181
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? |
-Try changing your seats to Oregon areo. As a previous maule owner (700hr
s+) and one who maintains one now and flies it. It made all the difference
in the world and when I found out the 10 had it built in, I was happier wit
h the RV even more. 8.5 hrs one day osh to DWH.
And yes the reflex does work better.
-Did anyone else go by Oregon Areo and talk to the guy who worked on the
seat for Van. He said they are looking at modifying the seat latch. Now tha
t would be nice but My friend here and I got the extension from cleveland a
nd they work a whole lot better then stock.
Patrick Thyssen
Just my opion
--- On Thu, 8/27/09, Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ????
.com>
You are killing me Tim!- I can barely face the Maule for a CC jaunt anymo
re.- It's just too slow.
Before starting the '10, we flew the heck out of our Maule from northern NY
to Key West.- From the Outer Banks to Houston.- All from our homebase
in Durham NC.- For the Maule, that's not so much a regional limit as a bu
tts-in-seats issue.- The hour long leg is not a bad thing either as long
as you do it often.- We were lucky enough to have a mission most weekends
for a 2 hour out and return.- Nothing like a schedule to exercise the IF
R chops.
I wouldn't want to knock the builders who don't feel the need to take off f
or parts unknown.- Some of us are in this to build, others may prefer a s
port acro session in a single digit RV, and some just like to pound the pat
ch.- But the '10 is my dream of a magic carpet.- As much as I'm enjoyin
g the build, I can hardly wait to fly it.
I have several dream trips I hope to make if the fates allow.- Cuba is on
e I've been dreaming of since the '10 was announced.- I figured private f
lights there- would once again be possible in my lifetime.... and I feel
like it's real close.- Alaska is another big dream trip.- Cancun is an
extension of the Cuba dream.- In general, I'd love to- fly out west.-
I've towed and flown my old sailplane out in New Mexico, Montana and Nevad
a but an engine seems like it could be almost as much fun.
One of the most exciting thoughts is that the '10, when compared to the Mau
le,- can be more economical in terms of fuel.- On a long leg in the Mau
le, I average 9 Gals/hour.- If the winds don't fight me, I can do 110 kno
ts.- Some rough math suggests that Durham to Tampa is 40 gallons in the M
aule but perhaps 35 gallons in the '10.- But more important, it's less ti
me in the seat with an AP thrown in for kicks.- Nice!
Bill "working through the FAB thinking how nice the other 99.9% of the kit
is" Watson
footnotes:
RV10, 40605, 3 years in the making, username = Tigressa, password Osh10ko
sh
1996 Maule, 180hp, fixed in all respects except for constantly chipping pai
nt, 1,300 hours
missing my 1986 Rolladen-Schneider LS6b 15meter racing sailplane, retractab
le, laminar flow, ballasted, and still faster than the Maule
formerly operator of a PIK20b, terrorizer of many a cow, may she RIP
(the '10 will be my first plane without reflex flaps - how strange is that?
)
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> One thing I see lots of is that people like to fly to
> things in their own backyards, but they don't always
> want to go somewhere further. (with the normal exception
> of OSH)- I find it funny that I know a lot of builders
> on the East Coast who go all over the East, but seldom
> consider going West of the Rockies.- Then I know a lot
> of folks West of the Rockies and they've never been out
> East.- Same when you divide North from South.- Personally,
> I think people should use these "magic carpets" to shrink
> their world a little bit further and not be afraid to
> venture from coast to coast, even for a good fly-in.
> I added a day of just hanging out in my last Oregon
> trip, yet did that trip as what basically was designed
> to be a 4 day weekend.- Last fall we did the East Coast
> and flew NYC's hudson in a 4 day trip.- You can do an
> awful lot with 4 or 5 days, so I say, go enjoy the sky
> for a while.- The RV-10 really makes it possible to
> be ANYWHERE in the continental US with a fairly easy 2
> days of flying.- So get out of your own backyard and
> go visit somewhere else...there's just so much to
> see and experience!
>
> We're still needing to get to the central South states,
> so over the next year or two that's going to be on our
> list.- Then we'll go revisit them all. :)
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
le, List Admin.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Ordered 10 sb complete kit after 5 yrs of dreaming. |
Congratulations! You will greatly benefit from your house building
experience, as well as your A&P. My wife and I built a house in
Fairbanks, circa 1979, then under took the RV-10 project shortly after
my retirement. In fact, just yesterday, reserved a tail number, which
if FAA confirms, will be N10CA. I expect, like the house, the plane
project will never be "finished", it will just reach a licensed and
airworthy stage.
If you haven't already, you might find it worthwhile to convert your
military A&P into a civilian ticket.
Good luck with your project.
Kelly
A&P/IA
KCHD
N10CA pending, awaiting QB arrival, 40866
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 6:04 AM, rv10flyer<wayne.gillispie@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hello. I am a low time(92 hrs) pilot tired of renting 172's. With a wife, two
kids(6+9 yrs), 20 lbs baggage the 172S is at max gross. They enjoy the traveling
and the view. I have A&P from 88-93 military service, which helps not to get
so nervous about everything. This is a huge project and will cost almost as
much as it cost to build our house. We built the house ourselves and it took
about 3 yrs total. I am hoping for about the same on the 10. It is nice to have
all this information available if needed. Thanks.
>
> --------
> Wayne Gillispie
> Builder #40983
> RV-10 Kit Ordered 8/24/09
> Grayson, Kentucky
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260181#260181
>
>
Message 10
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|
| Subject: | Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? |
Ditto the comments on Payson, a neat place. I learned to fly my RV-4 there
in the mid 90s.
At that time Herb Ross, one of Van's first employees, was running a little
builder assistance business there.
IIRC there was another company down in Tuscon doing the same thing.
Dick Sipp
N110DV
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ????
>
> Payson is a local favorite for breakfast runs, along with Sedona and
> Prescott. However, it is not a cheap fuel spot. St. Johns, 30 min
> further east will be the low price in the state most of the time,
> closely followed by Casa Grande and Eloy. Eloy is a full time jump
> school, requiring attention for jump planes and non-standard pattern,
> has a cafe on field.
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:35 PM, Robin Marks<robin1@mrmoisture.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> On a recent trip to AZ I did a few landings at Payson (PAY) between
>> Deems & Sedona. It was beautiful there, more like Colorado than AZ
>> (5,200 MSL). Looked like a really cool diner on the airport edge
>> overlooking the runway. The type of place people use as a destination to
>> ride their Harleys to on the weekend. Check it out. As I remember it was
>> also the cheapest fuel in the area (but check me on that). Payson also
>> where I learned that landing at 80 Knots gets you to land exactly on the
>> 1,000' markers. The far 1,000' markers. :-)
>>
>> Robin
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
>> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:23 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ????
>>
>>
>> Now thats what I'm talking about !!!!!!!!! ;-) Seriously, we're only a
>> short flight from Sedona, and would love to hook up with you while
>> you/re here. There's an RV-10 in Prescott as well. Sedona is an
>> interesting airport. It sits on the top of a 500' mesa, normally, you
>> land one way (uphill) and take off the other. The elevation differences
>> on the ends of the runway is 100'. There is some really amazing 'red
>> rock' formations in the area. It would make for some REALLY neat
>> air-to-air shots with your freshly painted plane in the foreground.
>> (I've got a camera that should be up to the task).
>>
>> Deems
>>
>>
>> Don McDonald wrote:
>>> Deems, and you other AZ 10 guys, we are flying (at least that's the
>>> plan) to Sedona on 9-4 for a week. It would be nice to at least meet
>>> up.... either in Sedona, or we could stop on the way there or on our
>>> return trip. I'm sure we'll have a spare day or so to fly... and for
>>> that day or so we have accomodations for you as well.
>>> Don McDonald
>>>
>>> --- On *Wed, 8/26/09, Deems Davis /<deemsdavis@cox.net>/* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering
>>> ????
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 12:09 PM
>>>
>>> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
>>>
>>> Tim you might want to consider Copperstate as an alternate to LOE
>>> this year. I've heard the same about LOE, great for RV'rs but not
>>> much else to do. Copperstate is not so large that flying in and
>>> out during the event is the challenge it is @ OSH. Tie in a visit
>>> to Sedona, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Puerto Penasco, San
>>> Diego, Las Vegas ??? We'll make it worth your while. I'll fly part
>>> way out to meet you so you can have a -10 to look at on your way
>>> inbound :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Deems drumming up Copperstate attendance Davis
>>>
>>> Tim Olson wrote:
>>> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
>>> >
>>> > I think gatherings would be fun, but, there is a downside
>> sometimes.
>>> > If you go somewhere with tons to do, then nobody does any
>> flying,
>>> > and there is too much draw to go visit other things. On the
>>> > other hand, if you go somewhere lame, then there is only flying
>>> > to do, and the family will get bored. So personally, I really
>>> > like the idea of gathering in one spot, and flying around
>>> > to a couple others....kind of like the last couple trips I
>>> > did like meeting David Maib and Vic and heading to Key West,
>>> > or metting Scott and heading to Oregon. That makes for a great
>>> > FLYING vacation where you can camp or see things too.
>>> >
>>> > This year I was considering LOE for a fly-in since it's been
>>> > a while, but, at the same time, it's not really a super
>> destination
>>> > for the kids and family....you basically will love it if you
>>> > just want to hang out with other builders, and you can
>>> > fly all day long if you want. But, you hang out at the
>>> > airport a lot. OSH is a great GATHERING but not the most
>>> > convenient place to do lots of flying. What would make
>>> > OSH more fun is if people would meet up along the way,
>>> > and the closer you got, the more people you had.
>>> >
>>> > So it's hard because everyone has a varied agenda of what
>>> > they'd like. I don't think I'll be at LOE this year,
>>> > but I know I'll be flying a couple more times on trips by
>>> > the end of the year. It's always nice to fly along and look
>>> > out the window and see another RV-10. :)
>>> >
>>> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Deems Davis wrote:
>>> <deemsdavis@cox.net
>>> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
>>> >>
>>> >> I like this idea ... RV10 gathering/s. OSH is definitely a
>>> great gathering, but I'd love to see if there's any interest in
>>> getting together somewhere with some other builder/flyers. I think
>>> the biggest attraction to OSH for me is just getting to visit with
>>> other similarly 'infected' types.
>>> >>
>>> >> I monitor the SoCal RV list, and they routinely have several
>>> posts each week where several people connect and either meet
>>> somewhere or fly somewhere together. I realize we're spread
>>> across the US and the logistics are greatly expanded, but it would
>>> be nice if we developed into the kind of group that routinely met
>>> and flew together either regionally or otherwise.
>>> >>
>>> >> What if people just used this list to post ideas about where,
>>> who, and when they would like to take a trip with some others? and
>>> let people naturally connect? If it turns out to be a benefit, who
>>> know someone might set up part of a website as an " I want to take
>>> a trip' bulletin board.
>>> >>
>>> >> Deems Davis N519PJ
>>> >> http://deemsrv10.com/index.html
>>> >>
>>> >> Tim Olson wrote:
>>> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I just do it to try to get you all to finish up so we can have
>>> >>> some great RV-10 gatherings. :)
>>> >>> Tim
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1bsp; -
>>> MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -nbsp;
>>> ="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
>>> target=_blank>http://www.matro====================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Article |
Like many Pro Builders, the mantra goes like this - "My PAI (at my local FSDO,)
said what I was doing was okay and compliant with the ole 51% interpretation.
They have even visited my production (learning center) operations. My customer(s)
is(are) just buying my last learning project". The Pro builder nets 51%
of the check and the owner/certificate holder certifies they did 51% of the tasks.
VANS, Aerosport, Stein, Grand Rapids, AFS or whatever get the component sales
- isn't everyone happy now. Writing that large of a check is a big task
- hence why I am moving so slowly on the amateur build.
Now you get a beautiful AOPA article, to which Dave Hirschman encourages the next
guy to just go to the next pro builder to buy the next Acme Pro Built RV-10.
It's just our Free Market and a FAST alterative to the following of the intent
and ethic of the regs. Makes one want to start as a Pro Builder. If this
was our EAA magazine, I might be going berserk. Oh yeh, its AOPA - for owners
& pilots. Mr. Saylor, thanks for trying at least on the EAA/FAA committee.
It's not a red flag, it's a bright Green glowing Light. Shall we just take a breath
and welcome them to Copperstate? Maybe they will be at Independence (7S5),
Oregon tomorrow for the annual Vans Picnic.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Article
I don't know when or if some feds will decide to crack the whip. All I
can say is there are some folks sitting in jail for failure to
disclose medical handicaps to the FAA for which other govt agencies
were paying compensation. There was a "mechanic" in Casa Grande
signing off repair work as an A&P who will spend some years in jail,
while his victims have to have work redone/reinspected. Of course some
of his "customers" might have suspected what he was doing. I have to
believe some feds read the AOPA mag. I sure wouldn't want to throw
such a red flag in front of a bull like the Peelers did.
Do Not Archive
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:19 AM, John Cox<johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
> The Peeler paperwork did not acknowledge Mr. Raddatz's contribution nor his
> many otherrepeditive financial successes while so slowly learning..
>
> As Dave Hirschman stated, (as a buyer but not yet a builder) he was well
> familiar with the issues and knew what he was writing. He knows the FAA
> acceptedDr. Peeler as the builder and he published the passage that Peeler
> knew what his Airworthiness certification statement meant... Peeler goes on
> to say he had it professionally produced for him.
>
> Anyone have that Granite rewritten language on 51% built aircraft available
> so the rest of us get to use it finding the next Peeler?
>
>
> John Cox
> ________________________________
> From: Dave Saylor
> Sent: Thu 8/27/2009 11:10 AM
> To: Hirschman, Dave
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-10 Article
>
> Dave,
>
> I copied my last reply to you to a bunch of RV-10 types on Matronics. You
> said the builder passed away, and implied that the plane was amateur
> built...now I'm hearing that it was Steve Raddatz. Yes, he is deceased, but
> he was also a professional builder who it seems did not share your concern
> about abuse of the AB category. So I stand by my original statement and I
> think I'll shut up for a while before I make myself a bigger fool.
>
> Dave Saylor
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Hirschman, Dave <Dave.Hirschman@aopa.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Dave Saylor,
>> I share your concerns about abuse of the Experimental category, and your
>> point about explicitly spelling out the ownership trail in this case is well
>> taken.
>> Also, I like your idea about a "second owner" article, too. As a buyer
>> (but not yet a builder) of Experimental aircraft over the years, it's a
>> subject I'm personally very interested in . . .
>> Best,
>>
>> Dave Hirschman
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Dave Saylor [mailto:dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:50 PM
>> To: Hirschman, Dave
>> Cc: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-10 Article
>>
>> Thank you, Dave. That's a reasonable and completely acceptable
>> explanation. FWIW, there are a lot of people who are concerned about people
>> intending to get around the rules, and this looked for all the world like
>> one of those cases. A line or two to set things straight might have been
>> interesting and informative to your audience. How about an article
>> specifically addressing "second owner" ins and outs?
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> Dave Saylor
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Hirschman, Dave <Dave.Hirschman@aopa.org>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear David Saylor,
>>>
>>> Thanks very much for your e-mail and sharing your concerns about this
>>> airplane.
>>> I can assure you that David Peeler doesn't have the repairman's
>>> certificate on this airplane. He bought it from the builder (who is now
>>> deceased).
>>> The point of the RV-10 story was to highlight the tremendous utility and
>>> capability of some Experimental category aircraft, evenfor non-builders
>>> like David and Amy Peeler. My parents built a VariEze, and I'm an RV-3
>>> owner, so I'm abig fan ofthe Experimental category . . .
>>> Warm Regards,
>>>
>>> Dave Hirschman
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Dave Saylor [mailto:dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:41 PM
>>> To: Hirschman, Dave
>>> Subject: Fwd: RV-10 Article
>>>
>>> Dear Mr. Hirschman,
>>>
>>> I'm a 24-year AOPA member and an RV-10 builder/owner. I own and operate
>>> a builder assistance center for amateur built aircraft, and I served on the
>>> FAA's recent committee to review what is commonly known as the 51% rule.
>>>
>>> I think you did a disservice to RV-10 builders specifically and all
>>> amateur builders in general by printing certain quotes from David Peeler.
>>> Without any valid explanation of the rule, you left the impression that Dr.
>>> Peeler had someone build his plane. Yet, a quick check of the registration
>>> database clearly lists him as the manufacturer, but he claims he doesn't
>>> "pretend to be" the builder...something's fishy.
>>>
>>> There's nothing wrong with selling a plane that you built, as long as
>>> your intentions were correct. And there's nothing wrong with hiring out
>>> certain parts of the project. But in this case there's clearly more to the
>>> story, and not knowing what it is or how it was addressed leaves a black
>>> mark.
>>>
>>> I hope you can clear up the discrepancy. I'm not the only one who
>>> noticed.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Dave Saylor
>>> AirCrafters LLC
>>> 140 Aviation Way
>>> Watsonville, CA 95076
>>> 831-722-9141 Shop
>>> 831-750-0284 Cell
>
>
> --
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters LLC
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA 95076
> 831-722-9141 Shop
> 831-750-0284 Cell
>
>
> get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> p://forums.matronics.com/
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | A kid.. Really?? |
Those of you who follow VAF may recall the thread below.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=47188
Yes, to our surprise and assuming things go well in the coming days, I'm
going to be a dad. The shock is wearing off a bit and I'm now getting
focused on an aggressive build schedule to try and get as much of the
airplane completed as I possibly can before the new arrival. (BTW, does
anyone have an approach plate for this arrival? I'm not quite sure what
I'm supposed to be doing. J)
So my QB fuse is scheduled to arrive the week after next. At that
point, we'll be able to get started rolling through the project again.
I'm thinking between me, my dad (less than a mile away), and a couple of
friends we can get rolling and get focused on making progress some
serious progress.
I'm thinking of going ahead and ordering the QB wing and finishing kits.
This will get them into the house and ready to go. That'll cost me
around another $30K.
The major costs from that point will include.
1) Engine/Prop Combo
2) Avionics
3) Interior Finishing
a. And paint. But who needs paint! J
This is where my assumption comes in and also my question.
First my assumption: For another $30K out of my pocket,
I can knock out the majority of the "time" ahead of me. That leaves
another ~$100Kish for Engine/Panel and Interior, but that shouldn't take
as much time to complete as the airframe.
Now my question: How long does it really take to:
1) Hang the engine and get it ready to
fly. Then fit the cowling.
2) Install the panel - Assuming I use
Stein to build it for me.
3) Complete the interior.
4) Finally am I nuts about the strategy?
I know there are holes in my plan and I'm okay with you pointing them
out.
Thanks,
Phil
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: "Gretz" Pitot Tube |
I had a very similar experience. Great product, great support! Highly recommend
the Gretz/Angus product.
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle
At 05:12 AM 8/28/2009 Friday, you wrote:
>
>I received a new pitot tube from Andrew Leopold with Angus Aviation
>to replace my damaged one. All Andrew wanted was my old one back to
>check why it failed. Andrew was very good to work with, and fixed my
>problem. Blue Skys
>
>Barry Marz
>18735 Baseleg AVE.
>FT. Myers, Fl 33917
>239-567-2271
>blalmarz@embarqmail.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Filling empenage tip fairings |
Hi all,
While waiting for my QB I am working on the fairings of the emp. For the ones
I wish to have the filled in look I have a couple questions.
I have seen a few posts regarding this for other rv models that the builders have
used glass to cover the seam. Do you need to glass it or is just using filler
(superfil) ok? The gap is small and the unevenness is minimal so it appears
to me that filler would work as far as smoothing it out. Is the glass mentioned
on the other models because their fairings were not as good as the 10's
or is this something that is needed to prevent the filler from flexing and cracking?
As far as the superfil goes... Do I have to use polyfiber's UV smooth prime over
it or can I use another filler primer as long as it is chemically compatible?
The dry time of 3 weeks and then a coat of urethane seems like quite a process
for the UV smooth prime.
Thanks,
Bill Cannon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260223#260223
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Ordered 10 sb complete kit after 5 yrs of dreaming. |
With your background building the RV-10 will be a slam-dunk. In areas that
you have no skills they can be learned or purchased - since you are "handy"
you would probably enjoy the learning.
-
There is a great depth of talent on this site but we cannot-convert your
dreaming years into building/flying years. Congratulations on your choice.
-
Still sporting the mindless smile after 3 years of flying,
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB-
--- On Fri, 8/28/09, Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ordered 10 sb complete kit after 5 yrs of dreaming.
Congratulations! You will greatly benefit from your house building
experience, as well as your A&P. My wife and I built a house in
Fairbanks, circa 1979, then under took the RV-10 project shortly after
my retirement. In fact, just yesterday, reserved a tail number, which
if FAA confirms, will be N10CA. I expect, like the house, the plane
project will never be "finished", it will just reach a licensed and
airworthy stage.
If you haven't already, you might find it worthwhile to convert your
military A&P into a civilian ticket.
Good luck with your project.
Kelly
A&P/IA
KCHD
N10CA pending, awaiting QB arrival, 40866
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 6:04 AM, rv10flyer<wayne.gillispie@yahoo.com> wrote
:
>
> Hello. -I am a low time(92 hrs) pilot tired of renting 172's. -With a
wife, two kids(6+9 yrs), 20 lbs baggage the 172S is at max gross. -They
enjoy the traveling and the view. -I have A&P from 88-93 military service
, which helps not to get so nervous about everything. -This is a huge pro
ject and will cost almost as much as it cost to build our house. -We buil
t the house ourselves and it took about 3 yrs total. -I am hoping for abo
ut the same on the 10. -It is nice to have all this information available
if needed. -Thanks.
>
> --------
> Wayne Gillispie
> Builder #40983
> RV-10 Kit Ordered 8/24/09
> Grayson, Kentucky
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260181#260181
>
>
le, List Admin.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: A kid.. Really?? |
Phil,
Congrats.
.002 cents worth [Laughing]
Figure that you are half way there when you get the fuselage on the gear with the
top on.
To shorten the 2nd half, having Stein do the panel will help a bunch but you have
to do a lot of wiring yourself. Preplanning this will help. Wire your wings
as they are finished. Install your trim and autopilot servos as you go. Wire
the tail and fuselage center before you put it on the gear. This all takes
a massive amount of preplanning.
Having the Finishing and Fire Wall forward early does help but you do have to plan
ahead. Are you going with the stock oil cooler, standard throttle cables
or a quad. Better to delete/change the original orders then to send back for
a refund. Also are you going to go with an overhead panel. If you go with the
one now from Stein, it is best installed before you do the final install of
the top.
Another point to consider is that if you are doing an IFR panel, is that it is
MUCH easier to completely wire the fuselage with the instrument panel installed
before you rivet the top skin onto the fuselage (glare shield). Your instrument
panel should be modular enough that after you are finished wiring everything
in, you should be able to remove the major components to get to the back side
of the rivets on the glare shield.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260232#260232
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: A kid.. Really?? |
Here is my recent approach plate for you. It's IMC for the next year,
you have no idea what will lay ahead no matter how well you plan the
approach. Time will fly by, you'll need to support the passengers mainly
your co-pilot as she will need some rest and help. My building came to a
screeching stall last year with our second daughter .
I pretty much had all the sections up to the finish kit done before her
arrival. It has been slow go trying to think about what to do with (now)
a new baby around. The good news is that you'll greatly appreciate the
time spent building, it really is relaxing.
My words of advice, take advantage of any opportunity to build but make
sure you take care of your family needs first.. believe me it will pay
off later.
Enjoy the journey! Congratulations, never forget where I was when I got
the call and how blessed I felt!
Pascal
From: Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:44 AM
Subject: RV10-List: A kid.. Really??
Those of you who follow VAF may recall the thread below.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=47188
Yes, to our surprise and assuming things go well in the coming days, I'm
going to be a dad. The shock is wearing off a bit and I'm now getting
focused on an aggressive build schedule to try and get as much of the
airplane completed as I possibly can before the new arrival. (BTW, does
anyone have an approach plate for this arrival? I'm not quite sure what
I'm supposed to be doing. J)
So my QB fuse is scheduled to arrive the week after next. At that
point, we'll be able to get started rolling through the project again.
I'm thinking between me, my dad (less than a mile away), and a couple of
friends we can get rolling and get focused on making progress some
serious progress.
I'm thinking of going ahead and ordering the QB wing and finishing kits.
This will get them into the house and ready to go. That'll cost me
around another $30K.
The major costs from that point will include.
1) Engine/Prop Combo
2) Avionics
3) Interior Finishing
a. And paint. But who needs paint! J
This is where my assumption comes in and also my question.
First my assumption: For another $30K out of my pocket,
I can knock out the majority of the "time" ahead of me. That leaves
another ~$100Kish for Engine/Panel and Interior, but that shouldn't take
as much time to complete as the airframe.
Now my question: How long does it really take to:
1) Hang the engine and get it ready to
fly. Then fit the cowling.
2) Install the panel - Assuming I use
Stein to build it for me.
3) Complete the interior.
4) Finally am I nuts about the strategy?
I know there are holes in my plan and I'm okay with you pointing them
out.
Thanks,
Phil
Message 18
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| Subject: | A kid.. Really?? |
Phil
Congrats on being a new dad. It will be the most amazing thing in your
life, and the most work. Building the RV-10 is the second best thing
compared to being a dad. My son is 16 =BD and is starting to drive and
being
is own man and it is a major joy to see him grow up. But I very much
miss
the days of little league base ball and basket ball games. But yes they
do
grow up.
That just leaves more time for the wife and flying hehe.
Enjoy and again congrats on the new baby.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:45 AM
Subject: RV10-List: A kid.. Really??
Those of you who follow VAF may recall the thread below.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=47188
Yes, to our surprise and assuming things go well in the coming days,
I=92m
going to be a dad. The shock is wearing off a bit and I=92m now getting
focused on an aggressive build schedule to try and get as much of the
airplane completed as I possibly can before the new arrival. (BTW, does
anyone have an approach plate for this arrival? I=92m not quite sure
what I=92m
supposed to be doing. J)
So my QB fuse is scheduled to arrive the week after next. At that
point,
we=92ll be able to get started rolling through the project again.
I=92m thinking between me, my dad (less than a mile away), and a couple
of
friends we can get rolling and get focused on making progress some
serious
progress.
I=92m thinking of going ahead and ordering the QB wing and finishing
kits.
This will get them into the house and ready to go. That=92ll cost me
around
another $30K.
The major costs from that point will include.
1) Engine/Prop Combo
2) Avionics
3) Interior Finishing
a. And paint. But who needs paint! J
This is where my assumption comes in and also my question.
First my assumption: For another $30K out of my pocket,
I
can knock out the majority of the =93time=94 ahead of me. That leaves
another
~$100Kish for Engine/Panel and Interior, but that shouldn=92t take as
much
time to complete as the airframe.
Now my question: How long does it really take to:
1) Hang the engine and get it ready to
fly.
Then fit the cowling.
2) Install the panel ' Assuming I use
Stein
to build it for me.
3) Complete the interior.
4) Finally am I nuts about the strategy?
I
know there are holes in my plan and I=92m okay with you pointing them
out.
Thanks,
Phil
Message 19
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| Subject: | A kid.. Really?? |
Phil,
I'm slightly ahead of you in that I had your crazy ass plan in mind too 37
weeks and 5 days ago. We're expecting our first child well. pretty damn
soon! Building has slowed tremendously during her pregnancy. I shifted the
energy into an addition onto our house. The building really stopped about 3
mo ago for me due to the home renovations (don't ask if its done yet). The
airplane parts all over the place didn't fly so well with the wife. I
couldn't convince her the Horizontal could double as a changing table and
crib. The motor mount could easily be setup as a basinet I thought. though
she didn't. The bright side is soon we'll have a newborn to help buck
rivets!
I think it's too much to bite off. There is sooo much ahead of you to leech
on your time that you cannot even fathom (listen to me ha my kid aint even
born yet). I would say continue building at your current pace and let the
dust settle where it settles. You need a ton of research time to figure out
how to really build the thing. You know all those hours spent changing your
mind 37 times a week. If you rush it you'll never finish anyway (assuming
you work a standard 8-5 work week) so I wouldn't set the bar so high. Plus
you'll just stress yourself out trying to hit a lofty goal. My advice start
coming to terms w/the fact that it will probably be well over 2 years till
you finish (it takes time to swallow that one believe me).
-Ben Westfall
#40579 (finishing kit buried under home renovations dust)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Those of you who follow VAF may recall the thread below.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=47188
Yes, to our surprise and assuming things go well in the coming days, I'm
going to be a dad. The shock is wearing off a bit and I'm now getting
focused on an aggressive build schedule to try and get as much of the
airplane completed as I possibly can before the new arrival. (BTW, does
anyone have an approach plate for this arrival? I'm not quite sure what I'm
supposed to be doing. :-))
So my QB fuse is scheduled to arrive the week after next. At that point,
we'll be able to get started rolling through the project again.
I'm thinking between me, my dad (less than a mile away), and a couple of
friends we can get rolling and get focused on making progress some serious
progress.
I'm thinking of going ahead and ordering the QB wing and finishing kits.
This will get them into the house and ready to go. That'll cost me around
another $30K.
The major costs from that point will include.
1) Engine/Prop Combo
2) Avionics
3) Interior Finishing
a. And paint. But who needs paint! :-)
This is where my assumption comes in and also my question.
First my assumption: For another $30K out of my pocket, I
can knock out the majority of the "time" ahead of me. That leaves another
~$100Kish for Engine/Panel and Interior, but that shouldn't take as much
time to complete as the airframe.
Now my question: How long does it really take to:
1) Hang the engine and get it ready to fly.
Then fit the cowling.
2) Install the panel - Assuming I use Stein
to build it for me.
3) Complete the interior.
4) Finally am I nuts about the strategy? I
know there are holes in my plan and I'm okay with you pointing them out.
Thanks,
Phil
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Article |
John,
For the benefit of others that may not be as clear on the issues with
the FAA.....IMHO, if Steve had financed and built the aircraft like
any amateur, finished it, registered it with him as builder, then he
would legally be free to sell that aircraft. In my mind the two
cardinal sins are the Peelers paying Steve to do the build as it is
put together, and then swearing on an FAA form that they, not Steve,
actually built the aircraft. It is about lying to the FAA. If you or I
choose to become multiple offenders, cranking out an RV-10 every year
to educate ourselves on the minor changes that Vans makes from time to
time and how to incorporate the latest gizmos and glass panels, and
then, after finishing and registering the aircraft choose to sell it
to finance the next project....more power to us.
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:12 AM, John Cox<johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
> It's not a red flag, it's a bright Green glowing Light. Shall we just take a
breath and welcome them to Copperstate? Maybe they will be at Independence (7S5),
Oregon tomorrow for the annual Vans Picnic.
>
> John
Message 21
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| Subject: | A kid.. Really?? |
Phil:
I've built an RV-4, am building an RV-10, and raised a child in the interim
(who just turned 26, is married, and still brings all the joy I felt when
she arrived in this world).
My advice FWIW:
1) Its good to set goals as far as building but don't let them become
reasons for disappointment if you don't meet them.
2) Other things will come into play and should take priority. If you
don't approach it with the attitude that they are going to take priority you
will get resentful of them and that will be a waste. The journey you are
embarking on will surpass any flight you will ever make in your RV-10, bar
none.
3) The RV-10 will wait patiently for you to complete her when you can
find the time and the money to do it the way you want to; the rest of your
life with your child will be on its own schedule that YOU have to adapt to,
not the other way around.
4) Enjoy the journey and one last bit of hard learned advice:
If your wife nudges you at 3AM and wants an Cheese Cake from a certain all
night deli with a certain type of nuts on top - by all means get up and go
get it for her. I didn't understand that and missed the opportunity to
deliver a lasting memory for both of us that pales to the memory she
delivered to me a few months later...
Congratulations! You can do all of this - slow down and enjoy it or the
stress will take away the joy from seeing two miraculous births - your child
and your airplane.
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:45 AM
Subject: RV10-List: A kid.. Really??
Those of you who follow VAF may recall the thread below.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=47188
Yes, to our surprise and assuming things go well in the coming days, I'm
going to be a dad. The shock is wearing off a bit and I'm now getting
focused on an aggressive build schedule to try and get as much of the
airplane completed as I possibly can before the new arrival. (BTW, does
anyone have an approach plate for this arrival? I'm not quite sure what I'm
supposed to be doing. :-))
So my QB fuse is scheduled to arrive the week after next. At that point,
we'll be able to get started rolling through the project again.
I'm thinking between me, my dad (less than a mile away), and a couple of
friends we can get rolling and get focused on making progress some serious
progress.
I'm thinking of going ahead and ordering the QB wing and finishing kits.
This will get them into the house and ready to go. That'll cost me around
another $30K.
The major costs from that point will include.
1) Engine/Prop Combo
2) Avionics
3) Interior Finishing
a. And paint. But who needs paint! :-)
This is where my assumption comes in and also my question.
First my assumption: For another $30K out of my pocket, I
can knock out the majority of the "time" ahead of me. That leaves another
~$100Kish for Engine/Panel and Interior, but that shouldn't take as much
time to complete as the airframe.
Now my question: How long does it really take to:
1) Hang the engine and get it ready to fly.
Then fit the cowling.
2) Install the panel - Assuming I use Stein
to build it for me.
3) Complete the interior.
4) Finally am I nuts about the strategy? I
know there are holes in my plan and I'm okay with you pointing them out.
Thanks,
Phil
Message 22
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| Subject: | Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar |
All,
I need some help and Vans is not answering the phone. I am getting ready to
match drill the rear spar and doublers to the ribs and have found that the
holes of two of the ribs (where the wing walk is) do not match up with the
holes in the doubler or rear spar. The ribs have the four holes, the middle
two just do not line up. Is this normal and I just need to drill through
the double and create two new holes in the ribs, or are my ribs all screwed
up?
thanks,
John Trollinger
rv10.trollingers.com
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar |
It's normal. The holes don't get rivets in them.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Trollinger
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar
All,
I need some help and Vans is not answering the phone. I am getting
ready to match drill the rear spar and doublers to the ribs and have
found that the holes of two of the ribs (where the wing walk is) do not
match up with the holes in the doubler or rear spar. The ribs have the
four holes, the middle two just do not line up. Is this normal and I
just need to drill through the double and create two new holes in the
ribs, or are my ribs all screwed up?
thanks,
John Trollinger
rv10.trollingers.com
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar |
My wings were QB, so I did not do this particular task. However, my
experience taught me to go back and take a really good look at
everything if something just did not fit, or holes did not line up.
These pre-punched kits don't seem to have many mistakes of this kind.
Re-read directions carefully,look closely at the drawings, and talk
to other builders (just like you are doing here) before you decided
to drill new holes. Maybe getting a fresh set of eyes to take a look
would be good, too.
$.02 worth
David Maib
40559
flying
On Aug 28, 2009, at 7:33 PM, John Trollinger wrote:
All,
I need some help and Vans is not answering the phone. I am getting
ready to match drill the rear spar and doublers to the ribs and have
found that the holes of two of the ribs (where the wing walk is) do
not match up with the holes in the doubler or rear spar. The ribs
have the four holes, the middle two just do not line up. Is this
normal and I just need to drill through the double and create two new
holes in the ribs, or are my ribs all screwed up?
thanks,
John Trollinger
rv10.trollingers.com
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: A kid.. Really?? |
Move to Utah, become a polygamist with multiple wives. More kids =
more chores done. You can even keep your house unfinished so you don't
have to pay property taxes.
Problem solved. You can thank me later.
----- Original Message -----
From: Perry, Phil
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 9:44 AM
Subject: RV10-List: A kid.. Really??
Those of you who follow VAF may recall the thread below.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=47188
Yes, to our surprise and assuming things go well in the coming days,
I'm going to be a dad. The shock is wearing off a bit and I'm now
getting focused on an aggressive build schedule to try and get as much
of the airplane completed as I possibly can before the new arrival.
(BTW, does anyone have an approach plate for this arrival? I'm not
quite sure what I'm supposed to be doing. J)
So my QB fuse is scheduled to arrive the week after next. At that
point, we'll be able to get started rolling through the project again.
I'm thinking between me, my dad (less than a mile away), and a couple
of friends we can get rolling and get focused on making progress some
serious progress.
I'm thinking of going ahead and ordering the QB wing and finishing
kits. This will get them into the house and ready to go. That'll cost
me around another $30K.
The major costs from that point will include.
1) Engine/Prop Combo
2) Avionics
3) Interior Finishing
a. And paint. But who needs paint! J
This is where my assumption comes in and also my question.
First my assumption: For another $30K out of my
pocket, I can knock out the majority of the "time" ahead of me. That
leaves another ~$100Kish for Engine/Panel and Interior, but that
shouldn't take as much time to complete as the airframe.
Now my question: How long does it really take to:
1) Hang the engine and get it ready to
fly. Then fit the cowling.
2) Install the panel - Assuming I use
Stein to build it for me.
3) Complete the interior.
4) Finally am I nuts about the
strategy? I know there are holes in my plan and I'm okay with you
pointing them out.
Thanks,
Phil
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar |
IIRC you use the hole in the thicker part & make an extra hole in the
thinner.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation
jesse@saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 28, 2009, at 7:33 PM, John Trollinger <john@trollingers.com>
wrote:
> All,
>
> I need some help and Vans is not answering the phone. I am getting
> ready to match drill the rear spar and doublers to the ribs and have
> found that the holes of two of the ribs (where the wing walk is) do
> not match up with the holes in the doubler or rear spar. The ribs
> have the four holes, the middle two just do not line up. Is this
> normal and I just need to drill through the double and create two
> new holes in the ribs, or are my ribs all screwed up?
>
> thanks,
>
> John Trollinger
> rv10.trollingers.com
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? |
Foam seats from Oregon - I like it! I'll have to add that to the list
for the future overhaul of my Maule assuming I can keep it. Right now
I fly with a rolled up magazine for lumbar support.
One thing I've learned, I want cloth or at least cloth panels on my '10
seats. The Maule seats aren't particularly comfortable ergonomically
but never really had a problem with sweating and stuff despite the NC
summers we get here. Cloth over leather or vinyl I'm thinking.
DWH... I've flown into Westheimer a couple of times to visit my
brother. I don't even like to measure the time from 8NC8 to there,
especially east to west. Flew into Hobby one rainy night too. Nice
folks..."since we don't have any tiedowns we'll have to hangar it for
you... charge? what charge?"
Guess I'm a bit closer to Osh - I think it took around 6 hours of air
time. Promised myself I'm going in the '10 next time!
Thanks.
Bill "cutting foam for the FAB" Watson
do not archive
Patrick Thyssen wrote:
> Try changing your seats to Oregon areo. As a previous maule owner
> (700hrs+) and one who maintains one now and flies it. It made all the
> difference in the world and when I found out the 10 had it built in, I
> was happier with the RV even more. 8.5 hrs one day osh to DWH.
> And yes the reflex does work better.
> Did anyone else go by Oregon Areo and talk to the guy who worked on
> the seat for Van. He said they are looking at modifying the seat
> latch. Now that would be nice but My friend here and I got the
> extension from cleveland and they work a whole lot better then stock.
> Patrick Thyssen
> Just my opion
> --- On *Thu, 8/27/09, Bill Mauledriver Watson
> /<MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A
> Gathering ????
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 4:40 PM
>
> <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com </mc/compose?to=MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>>
>
> You are killing me Tim! I can barely face the Maule for a CC
> jaunt anymore. It's just too slow.
> Before starting the '10, we flew the heck out of our Maule from
> northern NY to Key West. From the Outer Banks to Houston. All
> from our homebase in Durham NC. For the Maule, that's not so much
> a regional limit as a butts-in-seats issue. The hour long leg is
> not a bad thing either as long as you do it often. We were lucky
> enough to have a mission most weekends for a 2 hour out and
> return. Nothing like a schedule to exercise the IFR chops.
>
> I wouldn't want to knock the builders who don't feel the need to
> take off for parts unknown. Some of us are in this to build,
> others may prefer a sport acro session in a single digit RV, and
> some just like to pound the patch. But the '10 is my dream of a
> magic carpet. As much as I'm enjoying the build, I can hardly
> wait to fly it.
>
> I have several dream trips I hope to make if the fates allow.
> Cuba is one I've been dreaming of since the '10 was announced. I
> figured private flights there would once again be possible in my
> lifetime.... and I feel like it's real close. Alaska is another
> big dream trip. Cancun is an extension of the Cuba dream. In
> general, I'd love to fly out west. I've towed and flown my old
> sailplane out in New Mexico, Montana and Nevada but an engine
> seems like it could be almost as much fun.
>
> One of the most exciting thoughts is that the '10, when compared
> to the Maule, can be more economical in terms of fuel. On a long
> leg in the Maule, I average 9 Gals/hour. If the winds don't fight
> me, I can do 110 knots. Some rough math suggests that Durham to
> Tampa is 40 gallons in the Maule but perhaps 35 gallons in the
> '10. But more important, it's less time in the seat with an AP
> thrown in for kicks. Nice!
>
> Bill "working through the FAB thinking how nice the other 99.9% of
> the kit is" Watson
>
> footnotes:
> RV10, 40605, 3 years in the making, username = Tigressa, password
> Osh10kosh
> 1996 Maule, 180hp, fixed in all respects except for constantly
> chipping paint, 1,300 hours
> missing my 1986 Rolladen-Schneider LS6b 15meter racing sailplane,
> retractable, laminar flow, ballasted, and still faster than the Maule
> formerly operator of a PIK20b, terrorizer of many a cow, may she RIP
> (the '10 will be my first plane without reflex flaps - how strange
> is that?)
>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
> </mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
> >
> > One thing I see lots of is that people like to fly to
> > things in their own backyards, but they don't always
> > want to go somewhere further. (with the normal exception
> > of OSH) I find it funny that I know a lot of builders
> > on the East Coast who go all over the East, but seldom
> > consider going West of the Rockies. Then I know a lot
> > of folks West of the Rockies and they've never been out
> > East. Same when you divide North from South. Personally,
> > I think people should use these "magic carpets" to shrink
> > their world a little bit further and not be afraid to
> > venture from coast to coast, even for a good fly-in.
> > I added a day of just hanging out in my last Oregon
> > trip, yet did that trip as what basically was designed
> > to be a 4 day weekend. Last fall we did the East Coast
> > and flew NYC's hudson in a 4 day trip. You can do an
> > awful lot with 4 or 5 days, so I say, go enjoy the sky
> > for a while. The RV-10 really makes it possible to
> > be ANYWHERE in the continental US with a fairly easy 2
> > days of flying. So get out of your own backyard and
> > go visit somewhere else...there's just so much to
> > see and experience!
> >
> > We're still needing to get to the central South states,
> > so over the next year or two that's going to be on our
> > list. Then we'll go revisit them all. :)
> >
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> > do not archive
> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhp;
> -Matt Draronics.com/contribution"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contrib==============
>
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar |
So I should just drill the two new holes through the doubler and ignore the
center to holes that are already in the ribs?
thanks,
John
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Seano <sean@braunandco.com> wrote:
> It's normal. The holes don't get rivets in them.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* John Trollinger <john@trollingers.com>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Friday, August 28, 2009 5:33 PM
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar
>
> All,
>
> I need some help and Vans is not answering the phone. I am getting ready
> to match drill the rear spar and doublers to the ribs and have found that
> the holes of two of the ribs (where the wing walk is) do not match up with
> the holes in the doubler or rear spar. The ribs have the four holes, the
> middle two just do not line up. Is this normal and I just need to drill
> through the double and create two new holes in the ribs, or are my ribs all
> screwed up?
>
> thanks,
>
> John Trollinger
> rv10.trollingers.com
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? |
I think the -10 seats are on of the strongest points of Vans design.
Apart from the safety that is apparently engineered into them. They are
just plain COMFORTABLE. On our recent Jaunt we logged 32 hours in less
than 2 weeks. The longest day was 9 hrs and the longest leg was 3:45,
but the limitation wasn't my rear end. I really didn't think about it
until we got home, but at no time during the trip was I uncomfortable in
the seats. (leather covered) And that included temps from 108 to 54
degs. The Bonanza and Baron had some good seats but after 3 hrs I'd find
myself 'wiggling' in the seat. If I ever decide to become an
earthrounder I want these seats!
Deems Davis N519PJ
http://deemsrv10.com/index.html
Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote:
> <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>
> Foam seats from Oregon - I like it! I'll have to add that to the list
> for the future overhaul of my Maule assuming I can keep it. Right
> now I fly with a rolled up magazine for lumbar support.
>
> One thing I've learned, I want cloth or at least cloth panels on my
> '10 seats. The Maule seats aren't particularly comfortable
> ergonomically but never really had a problem with sweating and stuff
> despite the NC summers we get here. Cloth over leather or vinyl I'm
> thinking.
>
> DWH... I've flown into Westheimer a couple of times to visit my
> brother. I don't even like to measure the time from 8NC8 to there,
> especially east to west. Flew into Hobby one rainy night too. Nice
> folks..."since we don't have any tiedowns we'll have to hangar it for
> you... charge? what charge?"
>
> Guess I'm a bit closer to Osh - I think it took around 6 hours of air
> time. Promised myself I'm going in the '10 next time!
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill "cutting foam for the FAB" Watson
> do not archive
> Patrick Thyssen wrote:
>> Try changing your seats to Oregon areo. As a previous maule owner
>> (700hrs+) and one who maintains one now and flies it. It made all the
>> difference in the world and when I found out the 10 had it built in,
>> I was happier with the RV even more. 8.5 hrs one day osh to DWH.
>> And yes the reflex does work better.
>> Did anyone else go by Oregon Areo and talk to the guy who worked on
>> the seat for Van. He said they are looking at modifying the seat
>> latch. Now that would be nice but My friend here and I got the
>> extension from cleveland and they work a whole lot better then stock.
>> Patrick Thyssen
>> Just my opion
>> --- On *Thu, 8/27/09, Bill Mauledriver Watson
>> /<MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A
>> Gathering ????
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 4:40 PM
>>
>> <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com </mc/compose?to=MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>>
>>
>> You are killing me Tim! I can barely face the Maule for a CC
>> jaunt anymore. It's just too slow.
>> Before starting the '10, we flew the heck out of our Maule from
>> northern NY to Key West. From the Outer Banks to Houston. All
>> from our homebase in Durham NC. For the Maule, that's not so much
>> a regional limit as a butts-in-seats issue. The hour long leg is
>> not a bad thing either as long as you do it often. We were lucky
>> enough to have a mission most weekends for a 2 hour out and
>> return. Nothing like a schedule to exercise the IFR chops.
>>
>> I wouldn't want to knock the builders who don't feel the need to
>> take off for parts unknown. Some of us are in this to build,
>> others may prefer a sport acro session in a single digit RV, and
>> some just like to pound the patch. But the '10 is my dream of a
>> magic carpet. As much as I'm enjoying the build, I can hardly
>> wait to fly it.
>>
>> I have several dream trips I hope to make if the fates allow.
>> Cuba is one I've been dreaming of since the '10 was announced. I
>> figured private flights there would once again be possible in my
>> lifetime.... and I feel like it's real close. Alaska is another
>> big dream trip. Cancun is an extension of the Cuba dream. In
>> general, I'd love to fly out west. I've towed and flown my old
>> sailplane out in New Mexico, Montana and Nevada but an engine
>> seems like it could be almost as much fun.
>>
>> One of the most exciting thoughts is that the '10, when compared
>> to the Maule, can be more economical in terms of fuel. On a long
>> leg in the Maule, I average 9 Gals/hour. If the winds don't fight
>> me, I can do 110 knots. Some rough math suggests that Durham to
>> Tampa is 40 gallons in the Maule but perhaps 35 gallons in the
>> '10. But more important, it's less time in the seat with an AP
>> thrown in for kicks. Nice!
>>
>> Bill "working through the FAB thinking how nice the other 99.9% of
>> the kit is" Watson
>>
>> footnotes:
>> RV10, 40605, 3 years in the making, username = Tigressa, password
>> Osh10kosh
>> 1996 Maule, 180hp, fixed in all respects except for constantly
>> chipping paint, 1,300 hours
>> missing my 1986 Rolladen-Schneider LS6b 15meter racing sailplane,
>> retractable, laminar flow, ballasted, and still faster than the
>> Maule
>> formerly operator of a PIK20b, terrorizer of many a cow, may she RIP
>> (the '10 will be my first plane without reflex flaps - how strange
>> is that?)
>>
>>
>> Tim Olson wrote:
>> </mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
>> >
>> > One thing I see lots of is that people like to fly to
>> > things in their own backyards, but they don't always
>> > want to go somewhere further. (with the normal exception
>> > of OSH) I find it funny that I know a lot of builders
>> > on the East Coast who go all over the East, but seldom
>> > consider going West of the Rockies. Then I know a lot
>> > of folks West of the Rockies and they've never been out
>> > East. Same when you divide North from South. Personally,
>> > I think people should use these "magic carpets" to shrink
>> > their world a little bit further and not be afraid to
>> > venture from coast to coast, even for a good fly-in.
>> > I added a day of just hanging out in my last Oregon
>> > trip, yet did that trip as what basically was designed
>> > to be a 4 day weekend. Last fall we did the East Coast
>> > and flew NYC's hudson in a 4 day trip. You can do an
>> > awful lot with 4 or 5 days, so I say, go enjoy the sky
>> > for a while. The RV-10 really makes it possible to
>> > be ANYWHERE in the continental US with a fairly easy 2
>> > days of flying. So get out of your own backyard and
>> > go visit somewhere else...there's just so much to
>> > see and experience!
>> >
>> > We're still needing to get to the central South states,
>> > so over the next year or two that's going to be on our
>> > list. Then we'll go revisit them all. :)
>> >
>> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> > do not archive
>> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhp;
>> -Matt Draronics.com/contribution"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contrib==============
>>
>>
>>
>> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? |
Amen to that. Those seats rock. Better than ANY car I've been in. 10
hrs is a breeze!
Tim
On Aug 28, 2009, at 8:01 PM, Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote:
>
> I think the -10 seats are on of the strongest points of Vans design.
> Apart from the safety that is apparently engineered into them. They
> are just plain COMFORTABLE. On our recent Jaunt we logged 32 hours
> in less than 2 weeks. The longest day was 9 hrs and the longest leg
> was 3:45, but the limitation wasn't my rear end. I really didn't
> think about it until we got home, but at no time during the trip was
> I uncomfortable in the seats. (leather covered) And that included
> temps from 108 to 54 degs. The Bonanza and Baron had some good seats
> but after 3 hrs I'd find myself 'wiggling' in the seat. If I ever
> decide to become an earthrounder I want these seats!
>
> Deems Davis N519PJ
> http://deemsrv10.com/index.html
>
> Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote:
>> >
>>
>> Foam seats from Oregon - I like it! I'll have to add that to the
>> list for the future overhaul of my Maule assuming I can keep it.
>> Right now I fly with a rolled up magazine for lumbar support.
>>
>> One thing I've learned, I want cloth or at least cloth panels on my
>> '10 seats. The Maule seats aren't particularly comfortable
>> ergonomically but never really had a problem with sweating and
>> stuff despite the NC summers we get here. Cloth over leather or
>> vinyl I'm thinking.
>>
>> DWH... I've flown into Westheimer a couple of times to visit my
>> brother. I don't even like to measure the time from 8NC8 to there,
>> especially east to west. Flew into Hobby one rainy night too.
>> Nice folks..."since we don't have any tiedowns we'll have to hangar
>> it for you... charge? what charge?"
>>
>> Guess I'm a bit closer to Osh - I think it took around 6 hours of
>> air time. Promised myself I'm going in the '10 next time!
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Bill "cutting foam for the FAB" Watson
>> do not archive
>> Patrick Thyssen wrote:
>>> Try changing your seats to Oregon areo. As a previous maule owner
>>> (700hrs+) and one who maintains one now and flies it. It made all
>>> the difference in the world and when I found out the 10 had it
>>> built in, I was happier with the RV even more. 8.5 hrs one day osh
>>> to DWH.
>>> And yes the reflex does work better.
>>> Did anyone else go by Oregon Areo and talk to the guy who worked
>>> on the seat for Van. He said they are looking at modifying the
>>> seat latch. Now that would be nice but My friend here and I got
>>> the extension from cleveland and they work a whole lot better then
>>> stock.
>>> Patrick Thyssen
>>> Just my opion
>>> --- On *Thu, 8/27/09, Bill Mauledriver Watson /<MauleDriver@nc.rr.com
>>> >/* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A
>>> Gathering ????
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 4:40 PM
>>>
>>> <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com </mc/compose?to=MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>>
>>>
>>> You are killing me Tim! I can barely face the Maule for a CC
>>> jaunt anymore. It's just too slow.
>>> Before starting the '10, we flew the heck out of our Maule from
>>> northern NY to Key West. From the Outer Banks to Houston. All
>>> from our homebase in Durham NC. For the Maule, that's not so
>>> much
>>> a regional limit as a butts-in-seats issue. The hour long leg is
>>> not a bad thing either as long as you do it often. We were lucky
>>> enough to have a mission most weekends for a 2 hour out and
>>> return. Nothing like a schedule to exercise the IFR chops.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't want to knock the builders who don't feel the need to
>>> take off for parts unknown. Some of us are in this to build,
>>> others may prefer a sport acro session in a single digit RV, and
>>> some just like to pound the patch. But the '10 is my dream of a
>>> magic carpet. As much as I'm enjoying the build, I can hardly
>>> wait to fly it.
>>>
>>> I have several dream trips I hope to make if the fates
>>> allow. Cuba is one I've been dreaming of since the '10 was
>>> announced. I
>>> figured private flights there would once again be possible in my
>>> lifetime.... and I feel like it's real close. Alaska is another
>>> big dream trip. Cancun is an extension of the Cuba dream. In
>>> general, I'd love to fly out west. I've towed and flown my old
>>> sailplane out in New Mexico, Montana and Nevada but an engine
>>> seems like it could be almost as much fun.
>>>
>>> One of the most exciting thoughts is that the '10, when compared
>>> to the Maule, can be more economical in terms of fuel. On a
>>> long
>>> leg in the Maule, I average 9 Gals/hour. If the winds don't
>>> fight
>>> me, I can do 110 knots. Some rough math suggests that Durham to
>>> Tampa is 40 gallons in the Maule but perhaps 35 gallons in the
>>> '10. But more important, it's less time in the seat with an AP
>>> thrown in for kicks. Nice!
>>>
>>> Bill "working through the FAB thinking how nice the other 99.9%
>>> of
>>> the kit is" Watson
>>>
>>> footnotes:
>>> RV10, 40605, 3 years in the making, username = Tigressa, password
>>> Osh10kosh
>>> 1996 Maule, 180hp, fixed in all respects except for constantly
>>> chipping paint, 1,300 hours
>>> missing my 1986 Rolladen-Schneider LS6b 15meter racing sailplane,
>>> retractable, laminar flow, ballasted, and still faster than the
>>> Maule
>>> formerly operator of a PIK20b, terrorizer of many a cow, may
>>> she RIP
>>> (the '10 will be my first plane without reflex flaps - how
>>> strange
>>> is that?)
>>>
>>>
>>> Tim Olson wrote:
>>> </mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
>>> >
>>> > One thing I see lots of is that people like to fly to
>>> > things in their own backyards, but they don't always
>>> > want to go somewhere further. (with the normal exception
>>> > of OSH) I find it funny that I know a lot of builders
>>> > on the East Coast who go all over the East, but seldom
>>> > consider going West of the Rockies. Then I know a lot
>>> > of folks West of the Rockies and they've never been out
>>> > East. Same when you divide North from South. Personally,
>>> > I think people should use these "magic carpets" to shrink
>>> > their world a little bit further and not be afraid to
>>> > venture from coast to coast, even for a good fly-in.
>>> > I added a day of just hanging out in my last Oregon
>>> > trip, yet did that trip as what basically was designed
>>> > to be a 4 day weekend. Last fall we did the East Coast
>>> > and flew NYC's hudson in a 4 day trip. You can do an
>>> > awful lot with 4 or 5 days, so I say, go enjoy the sky
>>> > for a while. The RV-10 really makes it possible to
>>> > be ANYWHERE in the continental US with a fairly easy 2
>>> > days of flying. So get out of your own backyard and
>>> > go visit somewhere else...there's just so much to
>>> > see and experience!
>>> >
>>> > We're still needing to get to the central South states,
>>> > so over the next year or two that's going to be on our
>>> > list. Then we'll go revisit them all. :)
>>> >
>>> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>>> > do not archive
>>> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-
>>> Listhp; -Matt Draronics.com/contribution"
>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contrib==============
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar |
John,
This is the response that I received from Van's when I ran across
the same situation.
Ed Godfrey
40717
This is normal. All the ribs are punched the same to save having more rib
part numbers to punch, but in this area you will need to drill into the ribs
using the holes in the reinforcing bar as a guide. Do NOT use the ribs as a
guide to drill the spars.
Vans
Vans,
> I have run across another issue of holes not lining up, this time on
> the rear spar of the wing. Apparently, the holes in the rib do not match
> up with the holes in the rear spar and the Rear Spare Reinforcement
> Fork. The holes that do not line up are on the third and fourth rib,
> starting at the most inboard. One rib being a W-1011-R and the other,
> W1011-L. The holes nearest the spar flanges do match up, but the 2
> "inner" holes punched in the rear spar and the Rear Spare Reinforcement
> Fork do not match the holes in the rib flange. This problem exists on
> both of the wings, with the same ribs. See photos attached. I am looking
> for guidance here as to what is the best course of action to take.
> Thank
> you.
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
John Trollinger wrote:
> So I should just drill the two new holes through the doubler and
> ignore the center to holes that are already in the ribs?
>
> thanks,
>
> John
>
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Seano <sean@braunandco.com
> <mailto:sean@braunandco.com>> wrote:
>
> It's normal. The holes don't get rivets in them.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* John Trollinger <mailto:john@trollingers.com>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 28, 2009 5:33 PM
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar
>
> All,
>
> I need some help and Vans is not answering the phone. I am
> getting ready to match drill the rear spar and doublers to the
> ribs and have found that the holes of two of the ribs (where
> the wing walk is) do not match up with the holes in the
> doubler or rear spar. The ribs have the four holes, the
> middle two just do not line up. Is this normal and I just
> need to drill through the double and create two new holes in
> the ribs, or are my ribs all screwed up?
>
> thanks,
>
> John Trollinger
> rv10.trollingers.com <http://rv10.trollingers.com>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> a>http://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar |
Ed said it right. You can tell it was just an easier way to make less
part numbers. The two hole are not used.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Trollinger
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar
So I should just drill the two new holes through the doubler and
ignore the center to holes that are already in the ribs?
thanks,
John
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Seano <sean@braunandco.com> wrote:
It's normal. The holes don't get rivets in them.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Trollinger
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar
All,
I need some help and Vans is not answering the phone. I am
getting ready to match drill the rear spar and doublers to the ribs and
have found that the holes of two of the ribs (where the wing walk is) do
not match up with the holes in the doubler or rear spar. The ribs have
the four holes, the middle two just do not line up. Is this normal and
I just need to drill through the double and create two new holes in the
ribs, or are my ribs all screwed up?
thanks,
John Trollinger
rv10.trollingers.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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