Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:52 AM - Leading edge install (Ed Godfrey)
2. 07:21 AM - Re: Leading edge install (Jesse Saint)
3. 07:51 AM - Re: Leading edge install (Fred Williams, M.D.)
4. 07:51 AM - Re: Leading edge install (Ed Godfrey)
5. 08:20 AM - Re: Leading edge install (dogsbark@comcast.net)
6. 09:07 AM - Re: Leading edge install (Ed Godfrey)
7. 09:09 AM - Re: Leading edge install (Ed Godfrey)
8. 04:04 PM - Re: Official RV10-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Don McDonald)
9. 11:36 PM - Window Write-Up (Jeff Carpenter)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Leading edge install |
Listers,
While installing my leading edge on the left wing, it seems like the
skin of the leading edge is overlapping the top main skin by about
1/32". Talking to VAN's, they suggested that I check to see if the wing
is twisted at all. Does anyone have any wise words as to how to check
for wing twist and if there is any, how to remove it? Is there any twist
that should be there?
Ed Godfrey
40717
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge install |
Is the overlap the same the whole length of the leading edge skin, or
just at one end. If just at one end, then there could be a twist.
There is not supposed to be any twist in the wing. We have seen
periodically that the leading edge skin needs to be filed a little bit
to nest in with the rear skin. The biggest thing is to make sure that
there is no twist, which you should be able to see by looking down the
plane of the skin from one end, then just file a little bit off.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Sep 2, 2009, at 9:44 AM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>
> Listers,
> While installing my leading edge on the left wing, it seems like
> the skin of the leading edge is overlapping the top main skin by
> about 1/32". Talking to VAN's, they suggested that I check to see if
> the wing is twisted at all. Does anyone have any wise words as to
> how to check for wing twist and if there is any, how to remove it?
> Is there any twist that should be there?
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge install |
Ed;
Did Vans say there is any twist designed in the wing? I'd ask that
question. I don't think there is.
Did the other panels line up correctly? Did you have to force any rivet
lines ?
Just a thought. Set it up on saw horses so that the Main spar is
plumb. (inboard side) . Then get a board and place it vertical at the
outboard edge with a plumb line on it. Then get a couple laser pointers
and shoot a line down the upper and lower line of rivets.
Second thought. Do you know what winding sticks are? Basically,
couple of straight sticks. Tape one on the inboard and one on the out
board part of the spar. Then sight down the top of the sticks and see if
you can see any twist in the spar.
If I had a twisted spar, I think that would not be something that I
would want to "fix" other than consideration of replacement.
Dr Fred.
Ed Godfrey wrote:
>
> Listers,
> While installing my leading edge on the left wing, it seems like
> the skin of the leading edge is overlapping the top main skin by about
> 1/32". Talking to VAN's, they suggested that I check to see if the
> wing is twisted at all. Does anyone have any wise words as to how to
> check for wing twist and if there is any, how to remove it? Is there
> any twist that should be there?
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge install |
Jesse,
It seems that at the outboard end, that the skin will lay flat
against the spar flange, but when you get in a couple rivets, it starts
the overlap. Also, looking through come of the inboard holes, it seems
like the holes off by about the same distance as the overlap. Because of
that, I am thinking of removing the rivets that I have installed on spar
web to ribs and rivet the LE skin first, then the spar.
Ed
Jesse Saint wrote:
>
> Is the overlap the same the whole length of the leading edge skin, or
> just at one end. If just at one end, then there could be a twist.
> There is not supposed to be any twist in the wing. We have seen
> periodically that the leading edge skin needs to be filed a little bit
> to nest in with the rear skin. The biggest thing is to make sure that
> there is no twist, which you should be able to see by looking down the
> plane of the skin from one end, then just file a little bit off.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> Cell: 352-427-0285
> Fax: 815-377-3694
>
> On Sep 2, 2009, at 9:44 AM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>
>>
>> Listers,
>> While installing my leading edge on the left wing, it seems like
>> the skin of the leading edge is overlapping the top main skin by
>> about 1/32". Talking to VAN's, they suggested that I check to see if
>> the wing is twisted at all. Does anyone have any wise words as to how
>> to check for wing twist and if there is any, how to remove it? Is
>> there any twist that should be there?
>>
>> Ed Godfrey
>> 40717
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge install |
Ed,
You may want to temporarily cleco that wing's bottom skins on, then see how
the leading edge lines up.=C2- It will provide additional defined positi
oning of the outboard spar.=C2- How do the rivet lines of the top skin an
d leading edge compare when installed?=C2-=C2-=C2-
Sean Blair
COS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Godfrey" <egodfrey@ameritech.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 7:44:53 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain
Subject: RV10-List: Leading edge install
Listers,
=C2-=C2- =C2-While installing my leading edge on the left wing, it se
ems like the
skin of the leading edge is overlapping the top main skin by about
1/32". Talking to VAN's, they suggested that I check to see if the wing
is twisted at all. Does anyone have any wise words as to how to check
for wing twist and if there is any, how to remove it? Is there any twist
that should be there?
Ed Godfrey
40717
===========
===========
MS -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge install |
Fred,
No, Van's did not mention anything about a twist that should be in
the wing, just to check if there was any. I was asking because of
something else that I had read that mentioned about a twist from the
wing root outward, but that was not for a 10. Thanks for the insight on
checking. I will set the wing up and check it out. The only skin that I
have riveted so far are the top wing skins and they did not show any
problem.
Ed
Fred Williams, M.D. wrote:
> <drfred@suddenlinkmail.com>
>
> Ed;
>
> Did Vans say there is any twist designed in the wing? I'd ask that
> question. I don't think there is.
> Did the other panels line up correctly? Did you have to force any
> rivet lines ?
> Just a thought. Set it up on saw horses so that the Main spar is
> plumb. (inboard side) . Then get a board and place it vertical at
> the outboard edge with a plumb line on it. Then get a couple laser
> pointers and shoot a line down the upper and lower line of rivets.
> Second thought. Do you know what winding sticks are? Basically,
> couple of straight sticks. Tape one on the inboard and one on the out
> board part of the spar. Then sight down the top of the sticks and see
> if you can see any twist in the spar.
> If I had a twisted spar, I think that would not be something that I
> would want to "fix" other than consideration of replacement.
>
> Dr Fred.
>
>
> Ed Godfrey wrote:
>>
>> Listers,
>> While installing my leading edge on the left wing, it seems like
>> the skin of the leading edge is overlapping the top main skin by
>> about 1/32". Talking to VAN's, they suggested that I check to see if
>> the wing is twisted at all. Does anyone have any wise words as to how
>> to check for wing twist and if there is any, how to remove it? Is
>> there any twist that should be there?
>>
>> Ed Godfrey
>> 40717
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge install |
Sean,
Checking the alignment on the holes in the LE to the holes in the
spar, it seems that they are not exactly lined up either and they are
off by about the same as the overlap. I did a test fit of the LE to the
top skin on the right wing and it is tight, but there does not seem to
be an overlap. I will try it with the bottom skin to see what that shows
me. Thanks.
Ed
dogsbark@comcast.net wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
>
>
> You may want to temporarily cleco that wing's bottom skins on, then
> see how the leading edge lines up. It will provide additional defined
> positioning of the outboard spar. How do the rivet lines of the top
> skin and leading edge compare when installed?
>
>
>
> Sean Blair
>
> COS
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ed Godfrey" <egodfrey@ameritech.net>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 7:44:53 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada
> Mountain
> Subject: RV10-List: Leading edge install
>
>
> Listers,
> While installing my leading edge on the left wing, it seems like the
> skin of the leading edge is overlapping the top main skin by about
> 1/32". Talking to VAN's, they suggested that I check to see if the wing
> is twisted at all. Does anyone have any wise words as to how to check
> for wing twist and if there is any, how to remove it? Is there any twist
> that should bsp; &
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Official RV10-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
It was nice to see you at the Flyin last weekend.....- hey, we seem to ge
t this message rather often.... do we all get it????- or are you trying t
o tell me something.- When we get it, should we be looking for something
in pareticular?
Thanks for all you do, Don McDonald
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote:
From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Official RV10-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
Dear Listers,
Please read over the RV10-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below.- T
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complete RV10-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
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Matt Dralle
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[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
le, List Admin.
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As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window last
week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell, my shop
was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up too quickly.
The bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had voids between the
window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of the bonding area. I
had also failed to remove the masking tape from the inside of the
window soon enough and had a fair amount of masking tape trapped by
the Weld-on bead.
My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting epoxy
into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success), but after
discussions with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech support by the
makers of Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the window and start
over. There are some things I learned from these discussions that are
worth sharing.
Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would
work and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from Airplane
Plastics in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with me on the
phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea might work and
suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task. As we
discussed the situation further, I was able to communicate that what
we were really trying to do in this case was bond the window to the
dried Weld-on 10... not the window to the fiberglass. He thought that
could still work... as long as I could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives to
Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had been a
long time since he had actually installed a window... then recollected
that the windows would pop out during the structural roll over test on
the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to bond them in. With
Weld-on 10, the window would break before the bond would. As I
understood the conversation, Weld-on 10 was an important component of
the plane passing the test. This made my decision to start over again
certain.
With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide double
flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had in my
router and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied up the $150 to
Vans for another window.
I also made a call to tech support at IPS, the makers of Weld-on 10,
hoping to find another product that would stay open longer. Here's
what I learned:
Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for this
application
At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the job
done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300-
$400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and
called Weld-on 811.
I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner might
have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and John
Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early January
of this year.
I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have stopped
burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop at or below
70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set of hands to
spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull up the masking
tape once the window is down securely. The gun seems a bit pricey and
I imagine I can find a way to spread the Weld-on 10 quickly and
accurately without too much effort or expense.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
one step forward... two steps back
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