Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:15 AM - Re: Window Write-Up (Pascal)
2. 06:23 AM - Re: Window Write-Up (Les Kearney)
3. 06:31 AM - Re: Rudder Trim Pushrod Help (Brian Steeves)
4. 06:48 AM - Fibreglass fasteners (Les Kearney)
5. 06:50 AM - Re: Tales from the dark OOPS I mean door side.... (Les Kearney)
6. 07:16 AM - Re: Window Write-Up (Geoff Combs)
7. 08:21 AM - Re: Window Write-Up (Werner Schneider)
8. 08:52 AM - Re: Window Write-Up (Geoff)
9. 09:46 AM - Re: Window Write-Up (Geoff)
10. 10:38 AM - New garmin traffic system was announced (Strasnuts)
11. 11:23 AM - Re: New garmin traffic system was announced (Tim Olson)
12. 11:23 AM - Re: Window Write-Up (John Gonzalez)
13. 11:48 AM - Re: New garmin traffic system was announced (Strasnuts)
14. 12:12 PM - Re: New Garmin traffic system was announced (Robin Marks)
15. 01:13 PM - Re: New Garmin traffic system was announced (Tim Olson)
16. 02:47 PM - Re: New Garmin traffic system was announced (Dave Saylor)
17. 03:11 PM - Re: New Garmin traffic system was announced (David McNeill)
18. 03:11 PM - Re: New Garmin traffic system was announced (Tim Olson)
19. 04:17 PM - Re: Window Write-Up (Bob Turner)
20. 05:05 PM - Re: Window Write-Up (Carl Froehlich)
21. 06:06 PM - Re: New Garmin traffic system was announced (Robin Marks)
22. 09:40 PM - Re: Re: A kid.. Really?? (Bill and Tami Britton)
23. 11:13 PM - Re: Re: A kid.. Really?? (Jeff Carpenter)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Window Write-Up |
I imagine I can find a way to spread the Weld-on 10 quickly and accurately
without too much effort or expense.
Jeff- with two people doing this you should be fine. I had my wife spread
the weld-on on the window while I spread a small bead on the door. We had
one person hold the window in place and used retainers drilled into the
canopy to hold the windows flush. than started removing the tape on the
inside first, finishing with having the exterior tape removed.
just make sure you remove the excess Weldon with a stick before removing any
tape. It really can be done all within 20 minutes- at least in the late fall
it can, when the temps are in the 70's.
Pascal
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jeff Carpenter" <jeff@westcottpress.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
>
> As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window last
> week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell, my shop was
> too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up too quickly. The
> bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had voids between the window
> and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of the bonding area. I had also
> failed to remove the masking tape from the inside of the window soon
> enough and had a fair amount of masking tape trapped by the Weld-on bead.
>
> My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting epoxy into
> the gaps (as some have done with apparent success), but after discussions
> with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech support by the makers of
> Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the window and start over. There are
> some things I learned from these discussions that are worth sharing.
>
> Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would work
> and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from Airplane Plastics
> in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with me on the phone. He
> initially thought the injected epoxy idea might work and suggested I use
> Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task. As we discussed the situation
> further, I was able to communicate that what we were really trying to do
> in this case was bond the window to the dried Weld-on 10... not the
> window to the fiberglass. He thought that could still work... as long as
> I could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
>
> So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives to
> Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had been a long
> time since he had actually installed a window... then recollected that
> the windows would pop out during the structural roll over test on the
> RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to bond them in. With Weld-on
> 10, the window would break before the bond would. As I understood the
> conversation, Weld-on 10 was an important component of the plane passing
> the test. This made my decision to start over again certain.
>
> With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide double
> flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had in my router
> and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied up the $150 to Vans for
> another window.
>
> I also made a call to tech support at IPS, the makers of Weld-on 10,
> hoping to find another product that would stay open longer. Here's what
> I learned:
>
> Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for this
> application
> At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the job done
> (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
> Be certain you are using product less than one year from the manufacture
> date as the working time decreases with age
> They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300- $400.
> Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and called
> Weld-on 811.
>
> I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner might
> have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and John
> Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early January of
> this year.
>
> I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have stopped
> burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop at or below 70
> degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set of hands to spread the
> Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull up the masking tape once the
> window is down securely. The gun seems a bit pricey and I imagine I can
> find a way to spread the Weld-on 10 quickly and accurately without too
> much effort or expense.
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> one step forward... two steps back
>
>
>
Message 2
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Hi Jeff
Thanks for the detailed post - I find the posts about how builders solved
problems the most informative of all.
I still have windows to do and have been considering Silpruf as an
alternative to Weldon. Fortunately I don't have to make a decision until
spring when it will be cool.
Do you know if Weldon can be applied effectively at lower temperatures? And
if so how does this impact the cure time? Is too long a cure time a problem?
Do you have any pix of how you routed out the window?
Cheers
Les
#40643 - living in a f/g world
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
Sent: September-03-09 12:35 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window last
week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell, my shop
was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up too quickly.
The bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had voids between the
window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of the bonding area. I
had also failed to remove the masking tape from the inside of the
window soon enough and had a fair amount of masking tape trapped by
the Weld-on bead.
My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting epoxy
into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success), but after
discussions with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech support by the
makers of Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the window and start
over. There are some things I learned from these discussions that are
worth sharing.
Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would
work and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from Airplane
Plastics in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with me on the
phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea might work and
suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task. As we
discussed the situation further, I was able to communicate that what
we were really trying to do in this case was bond the window to the
dried Weld-on 10... not the window to the fiberglass. He thought that
could still work... as long as I could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives to
Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had been a
long time since he had actually installed a window... then recollected
that the windows would pop out during the structural roll over test on
the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to bond them in. With
Weld-on 10, the window would break before the bond would. As I
understood the conversation, Weld-on 10 was an important component of
the plane passing the test. This made my decision to start over again
certain.
With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide double
flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had in my
router and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied up the $150 to
Vans for another window.
I also made a call to tech support at IPS, the makers of Weld-on 10,
hoping to find another product that would stay open longer. Here's
what I learned:
Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for this
application
At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the job
done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300-
$400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and
called Weld-on 811.
I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner might
have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and John
Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early January
of this year.
I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have stopped
burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop at or below
70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set of hands to
spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull up the masking
tape once the window is down securely. The gun seems a bit pricey and
I imagine I can find a way to spread the Weld-on 10 quickly and
accurately without too much effort or expense.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
one step forward... two steps back
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim Pushrod Help |
Thanks for the input. I will try those to see if I can get more throw.
I am assuming that the trim tab will only need to move from flush to the left side
to trim out during flight. This might help also since pulling the tab is
what makes it hit on the flare.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261194#261194
Message 4
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| Subject: | Fibreglass fasteners |
Hi
I am about to make a couple of trim panels in fibreglass. I would like to
hold them in place using blind fasteners that just pop in/out similar to
those used in autos. What I am trying to avoid is screw heads etc that would
require access to the finished side of the panel.
I have thought about Velcro or snaps but I don't think they would give as
tight a fit as desired.
Does anyone know of source for easy on/off blind fasteners that would work
with fibreglass?
Inquiring minds need to know.
Les
#40643 - living in a f/g world
Les Kearney MBA, CGA, CIA
KMCL
5015 - 154 ST NW
Edmonton T6H5P1
(780) 707-0169 cell
(866) 871-8558 Fax
Message 5
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| Subject: | RE: Tales from the dark OOPS I mean door side.... |
Hi
As follow up to my post below, I have discovered a couple of more things
that may be of interest.
First, if the door pins are adjusted so that the front and back pins
both
contact the door blocks at the same time, the door does not seem to move
fore or aft in the opening when latching. This mitigates the need for
shims
in the door blocks to prevent door movement when latching.
Next, over the past few days I have been repeatedly opening and closing
the
doors to =93work=94 the mechanisms. In doing this the grease that I used
seems
to be getting further into the gears etc. Consequently, the door action
is
getting smoother and easier to operate. In a couple off weeks I plan the
doors & mechanisms. When I re-install, I plan to grease prior to
reassembly
and see what impact this has.
Cheers
Les
#40643 ' living in a f/g world
_____
From: Les Kearney [mailto:kearney@shaw.ca]
Sent: August-29-09 2:28 PM
Subject: Tales from the dark OOPS I mean door side....
Hi
Over the past few weeks I have been working on my canopy and doors.
I have experienced a wide range of emotions when dealing with the doors
'
mostly frustration! The doors seemed to be designed to test the will to
build and our ability to persevere.
As part of the process I have studied the usual websites to see what
others
have done and trolled the archives for any hints and tips that might be
useful. Here are some of the things that I did (or wish I had done the
first time through) to get to doors that actually work.
When reading this, note that I used the Rivethead door blocks and the
McMaster Carr door seals which mount on the canopy opening and not on
the
door. I also installed Steve DeNieri=92s flush handles and locks.
What I did
1. Trimmed the door halves oversize prior to bonding. The index
holes
didn=92t match so bonding alignment was a concern. So was having enough
material to allow clamping to the canopy while curing.
2. When bonding the door halves I followed the plans to a T. It
turns
out that most of the door edges get removed so it is important to have
lots
close in to the inside edge of the flanges. I ended up with several
areas of
delamination. I found that it was possible to inject epoxy into
delaminated
areas using a large bore hypo. The entire bottom edge of one door
delaminated which strangely enough made repair easier.
3. The rear index holes didn=92t match so door alignment relative
to the
door sill was a problem. It was possible that the inner door half could
sit
too low in the openings and not have reasonable clearance from the
sills.
Without correction, this might result in the doors sitting on the bottom
of
the door sill. To ensure consistent spacing between the door and the
door
sill, I taped stacks of popsicle sticks (3 in each) onto the bottom of
the
door sill. The inner door sat on these during the bonding process.
4. The popsicle stick spacers also remained in place when during
the
initial door trim especially on the door top. I didn=92t want to
inadvertently
trim the door to short buy taking too much off the top. The doors were
left
a little long until the hinges were installed.
5. The initial fit objective was to get the doors flush in the
opening
with only a tiny gap all the way round.
6. The Rivethead door blocks were installed on the canopy
fibreglass
door posts
7. After the hinges and door blocks were installed considerable
time
was spent getting the doors pins open / close easily. After door seals
were
installed, I got to do this all over again.
8. Using washers as shims between the hinge and the canopy can
change
the gap between the canopy door post and the door. I used washers on an
aft
door hinges to slightly raise the height of the aft side of the door
which
in turn increased the forward gap between the door post and the door.
9. During latching the doors move fore / aft depending on which
door
pin contacts the door first and which has more friction. This in turn
moves
the door in the frame and changes the fore / aft gaps between the door
and
he canopy. A shim in the door opening between the canopy and the door
prevents this shift during fitting. Uncorrected, this was going to be a
problem.
10. The door seals caused the bottom of the doors to be pushed out
which in
turn resulted in the considerable pressure being required (on the
outside of
the door) to close the door enough for the door pins to engage.
11. I found the once the door seals were more than =BD compressed, the
resistive force on the doors increased significantly. By removing more
material from the outside of the canopy opening, I was able to reduce
the
seal compression and get an easier to close door. This was especially
true
of the canopy door posts.
12. What made a *huge* difference in getting the doors to close easily
was
pushing the canopy door sill inboard by about 1/8=94 This moved the seal
that
contacts the bottom of the door inboard and took most of outward
pressure
off the bottom of the door.
13. I floxed the nylon guide blocks on the fire/aft edges of the doors
so
that they were flush with the inner door perimeter. Consequently they
interfered with the previously installed Rivethead door blocks. To
correct,
the canopy door posts were notched to allow the Rivethead blocks to
mount
directly on the aluminum door posts and thereby provide clearance for
the
door. I shimmed the Rivethead blocks so that there was minimal clearance
between the doors and the blocks. This ensures that the doors remain
correctly aligned within the door opening. See #9.
14. Once the door pins engaged the Rivethead door block, it still took
some
effort to fully engage the pins. There were several factors that added
to
the effort:
* There is a lot of internal friction the Van=92s ratchet
mechanism.
Application of white grease made operation *much* easier
* White grease on the door pins reduced the effort required to
latch
the doors.
* There is a slight bow on the door. The long door pin should
have a
slight curve to ensure it does not bind against the in side of the door
* The further the door pins go into the door blocks, the greater
the
closing effort required. I reduced mine so that the only extend about
=BC=94
through the aluminum door posts.
* The more pressure required to push the door in place so the
pins
can engage, the more effort required to close the door
* If the door perimeter contacts the canopy anywhere, the effort
required to close the door will increase.
What I would do differently
* When bonding the door halves, use considerable more epoxy &
flox
on the door perimeter especially close to the inner edge of the flanges
to
be bonded.
* Pay more attention to the curves on the door pins (especially
the
long ones). One of the pins was binding on the door interior thus
increasing
the effort required to latch the door.
* Grease the ratcheting mechanism before starting the door fit.
A
lot of the door stiffness comes from the door mechanisms. When trying to
adjust the fit, it would have beneficial to have the stiffness out of
the
equation as it was sometime difficult to know what was causing the fit
problems.
* Install the door seals prior to doing the initial door fit.
* Pay more attention to where the door seals are being
compressed
too much when closing the door PRIOR to trimming the inside of the
canopy
flange. (In some places, I had to build up the inside of the canopy
flange
as I had to take more off the outside of the flange. To reduce door
compression.
* Flox the fore and aft door pin guides when building the doors
* Install the Rivethead door blocks directly on the aluminum
door
posts rather than first fitting on the canopy.
* Shim the Rivethead door blocks to ensure door alignment when
fitting the doors
Then end result of this is I can now close and latch both doors with
only
one finger of pressure on the inside door handle with only one finger of
pressure on the outside of the bottom of the door.
Cheers
Les
#40643 ' Living in a f/g world
Message 6
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Jeff I used a urethane adhesive to install my windows. It had a 20 min
working time and was easy to clean up and it did not run like weld-on. I
also did a test against weld-on and this held better. I am not flying the
airplane yet but it was a much easier task then the weld-on. The other nice
thing about it was that you can clean the inside edges very good with a PPG
reducer DT870. It is for urethane paints and will not hurt the window in any
way but does clean the urethane very easily. This material is off white and
can be tinted if needed. You would need to use a urethane base tint. It is a
little more flexible than the Weld-on which
Should be an advantage for the different substrates that are being glued
together. Time will tell how it will hold up but so far it has worked out
great. My airplane is painted and a month or so from flying. I used this on
all windows. Give me a call if you would like to discuss further. As far as
I am concerned this is the best solutions for gluing the windows in. I know
one thing is that they will not come out. This urethane has a incredible
bond. We just used it on some samples for a project to butt glue 1/2"
acrylic to each other. We tried to break it and could not.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
President
Aerosport Modeling & Design
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-5227p
614-834-5230f
www.aerosportmodeling.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:35 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window last
week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell, my shop
was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up too quickly.
The bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had voids between the
window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of the bonding area. I
had also failed to remove the masking tape from the inside of the
window soon enough and had a fair amount of masking tape trapped by
the Weld-on bead.
My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting epoxy
into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success), but after
discussions with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech support by the
makers of Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the window and start
over. There are some things I learned from these discussions that are
worth sharing.
Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would
work and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from Airplane
Plastics in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with me on the
phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea might work and
suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task. As we
discussed the situation further, I was able to communicate that what
we were really trying to do in this case was bond the window to the
dried Weld-on 10... not the window to the fiberglass. He thought that
could still work... as long as I could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives to
Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had been a
long time since he had actually installed a window... then recollected
that the windows would pop out during the structural roll over test on
the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to bond them in. With
Weld-on 10, the window would break before the bond would. As I
understood the conversation, Weld-on 10 was an important component of
the plane passing the test. This made my decision to start over again
certain.
With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide double
flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had in my
router and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied up the $150 to
Vans for another window.
I also made a call to tech support at IPS, the makers of Weld-on 10,
hoping to find another product that would stay open longer. Here's
what I learned:
Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for this
application
At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the job
done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300-
$400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and
called Weld-on 811.
I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner might
have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and John
Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early January
of this year.
I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have stopped
burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop at or below
70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set of hands to
spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull up the masking
tape once the window is down securely. The gun seems a bit pricey and
I imagine I can find a way to spread the Weld-on 10 quickly and
accurately without too much effort or expense.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
one step forward... two steps back
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Window Write-Up |
Geoff any brand/type of urethan you've used?
br Werner
Geoff Combs wrote:
>
> Jeff I used a urethane adhesive to install my windows. It had a 20 min
> working time and was easy to clean up and it did not run like weld-on. I
> also did a test against weld-on and this held better. I am not flying the
> airplane yet but it was a much easier task then the weld-on. The other nice
> thing about it was that you can clean the inside edges very good with a PPG
> reducer DT870. It is for urethane paints and will not hurt the window in any
> way but does clean the urethane very easily. This material is off white and
> can be tinted if needed. You would need to use a urethane base tint. It is a
> little more flexible than the Weld-on which
> Should be an advantage for the different substrates that are being glued
> together. Time will tell how it will hold up but so far it has worked out
> great. My airplane is painted and a month or so from flying. I used this on
> all windows. Give me a call if you would like to discuss further. As far as
> I am concerned this is the best solutions for gluing the windows in. I know
> one thing is that they will not come out. This urethane has a incredible
> bond. We just used it on some samples for a project to butt glue 1/2"
> acrylic to each other. We tried to break it and could not.
>
> Geoff
>
> Geoff Combs
> President
> Aerosport Modeling & Design
> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
> Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
> 614-834-5227p
> 614-834-5230f
> www.aerosportmodeling.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:35 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
>
>
>
> As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window last
> week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell, my shop
> was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up too quickly.
> The bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had voids between the
> window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of the bonding area. I
> had also failed to remove the masking tape from the inside of the
> window soon enough and had a fair amount of masking tape trapped by
> the Weld-on bead.
>
> My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting epoxy
> into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success), but after
> discussions with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech support by the
> makers of Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the window and start
> over. There are some things I learned from these discussions that are
> worth sharing.
>
> Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would
> work and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from Airplane
> Plastics in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with me on the
> phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea might work and
> suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task. As we
> discussed the situation further, I was able to communicate that what
> we were really trying to do in this case was bond the window to the
> dried Weld-on 10... not the window to the fiberglass. He thought that
> could still work... as long as I could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
>
> So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives to
> Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had been a
> long time since he had actually installed a window... then recollected
> that the windows would pop out during the structural roll over test on
> the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to bond them in. With
> Weld-on 10, the window would break before the bond would. As I
> understood the conversation, Weld-on 10 was an important component of
> the plane passing the test. This made my decision to start over again
> certain.
>
> With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide double
> flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had in my
> router and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied up the $150 to
> Vans for another window.
>
> I also made a call to tech support at IPS, the makers of Weld-on 10,
> hoping to find another product that would stay open longer. Here's
> what I learned:
>
> Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for this
> application
> At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the job
> done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
> Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
> manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
> They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300-
> $400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and
> called Weld-on 811.
>
> I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner might
> have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and John
> Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early January
> of this year.
>
> I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have stopped
> burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop at or below
> 70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set of hands to
> spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull up the masking
> tape once the window is down securely. The gun seems a bit pricey and
> I imagine I can find a way to spread the Weld-on 10 quickly and
> accurately without too much effort or expense.
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> one step forward... two steps back
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Window Write-Up |
I used Lord 7542 urethane adhesive
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone Geoff
On Sep 3, 2009, at 11:19 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>
> Geoff any brand/type of urethan you've used?
>
> br Werner
>
> Geoff Combs wrote:
>> >
>>
>> Jeff I used a urethane adhesive to install my windows. It had a 20
>> min
>> working time and was easy to clean up and it did not run like weld-
>> on. I
>> also did a test against weld-on and this held better. I am not
>> flying the
>> airplane yet but it was a much easier task then the weld-on. The
>> other nice
>> thing about it was that you can clean the inside edges very good
>> with a PPG
>> reducer DT870. It is for urethane paints and will not hurt the
>> window in any
>> way but does clean the urethane very easily. This material is off
>> white and
>> can be tinted if needed. You would need to use a urethane base
>> tint. It is a
>> little more flexible than the Weld-on which
>> Should be an advantage for the different substrates that are being
>> glued
>> together. Time will tell how it will hold up but so far it has
>> worked out
>> great. My airplane is painted and a month or so from flying. I used
>> this on
>> all windows. Give me a call if you would like to discuss further.
>> As far as
>> I am concerned this is the best solutions for gluing the windows
>> in. I know
>> one thing is that they will not come out. This urethane has a
>> incredible
>> bond. We just used it on some samples for a project to butt glue 1/2"
>> acrylic to each other. We tried to break it and could not.
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>> Geoff Combs
>> President
>> Aerosport Modeling & Design
>> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
>> 614-834-5227p
>> 614-834-5230f
>> www.aerosportmodeling.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
>> Carpenter
>> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:35 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>> As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window
>> last week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell,
>> my shop was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up
>> too quickly. The bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had
>> voids between the window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of
>> the bonding area. I had also failed to remove the masking tape
>> from the inside of the window soon enough and had a fair amount of
>> masking tape trapped by the Weld-on bead.
>>
>> My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting
>> epoxy into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success), but
>> after discussions with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech
>> support by the makers of Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the
>> window and start over. There are some things I learned from these
>> discussions that are worth sharing.
>>
>> Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would
>> work and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from
>> Airplane Plastics in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with me
>> on the phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea might
>> work and suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task.
>> As we discussed the situation further, I was able to communicate
>> that what we were really trying to do in this case was bond the
>> window to the dried Weld-on 10... not the window to the
>> fiberglass. He thought that could still work... as long as I
>> could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
>>
>> So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives
>> to Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had
>> been a long time since he had actually installed a window... then
>> recollected that the windows would pop out during the structural
>> roll over test on the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to
>> bond them in. With Weld-on 10, the window would break before the
>> bond would. As I understood the conversation, Weld-on 10 was an
>> important component of the plane passing the test. This made my
>> decision to start over again certain.
>>
>> With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide
>> double flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had
>> in my router and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied up
>> the $150 to Vans for another window.
>>
>> I also made a call to tech support at IPS, the makers of Weld-on
>> 10, hoping to find another product that would stay open longer.
>> Here's what I learned:
>>
>> Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for
>> this application
>> At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the
>> job done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
>> Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
>> manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
>> They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300-
>> $400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and
>> called Weld-on 811.
>>
>> I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner
>> might have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and
>> John Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early
>> January of this year.
>>
>> I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have
>> stopped burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop
>> at or below 70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set
>> of hands to spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull
>> up the masking tape once the window is down securely. The gun
>> seems a bit pricey and I imagine I can find a way to spread the
>> Weld-on 10 quickly and accurately without too much effort or
>> expense.
>>
>> Jeff Carpenter
>> 40304
>> one step forward... two steps back
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Window Write-Up |
Sorry guys the material I used was 7545 a/c. The 7542 is the same
material but a little thinner and greenish tan in color. The 7545 has
a higher viscosity and does not run. They have different cure times as
well.
They have a 7545 a/e which is slower yet.
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone Geoff
On Sep 3, 2009, at 11:48 AM, Geoff <g.combs@aerosportmodeling.com>
wrote:
>
> I used Lord 7542 urethane adhesive
>
> Geoff
>
> Sent from my iPhone Geoff
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2009, at 11:19 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Geoff any brand/type of urethan you've used?
>>
>> br Werner
>>
>> Geoff Combs wrote:
>>> >
>>>
>>> Jeff I used a urethane adhesive to install my windows. It had a 20
>>> min
>>> working time and was easy to clean up and it did not run like weld-
>>> on. I
>>> also did a test against weld-on and this held better. I am not
>>> flying the
>>> airplane yet but it was a much easier task then the weld-on. The
>>> other nice
>>> thing about it was that you can clean the inside edges very good
>>> with a PPG
>>> reducer DT870. It is for urethane paints and will not hurt the
>>> window in any
>>> way but does clean the urethane very easily. This material is off
>>> white and
>>> can be tinted if needed. You would need to use a urethane base
>>> tint. It is a
>>> little more flexible than the Weld-on which
>>> Should be an advantage for the different substrates that are being
>>> glued
>>> together. Time will tell how it will hold up but so far it has
>>> worked out
>>> great. My airplane is painted and a month or so from flying. I
>>> used this on
>>> all windows. Give me a call if you would like to discuss further.
>>> As far as
>>> I am concerned this is the best solutions for gluing the windows
>>> in. I know
>>> one thing is that they will not come out. This urethane has a
>>> incredible
>>> bond. We just used it on some samples for a project to butt glue
>>> 1/2"
>>> acrylic to each other. We tried to break it and could not.
>>>
>>> Geoff
>>>
>>> Geoff Combs
>>> President
>>> Aerosport Modeling & Design
>>> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
>>> 614-834-5227p
>>> 614-834-5230f
>>> www.aerosportmodeling.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
>>> Carpenter
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:35 AM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window
>>> last week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell,
>>> my shop was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up
>>> too quickly. The bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had
>>> voids between the window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of
>>> the bonding area. I had also failed to remove the masking tape
>>> from the inside of the window soon enough and had a fair amount
>>> of masking tape trapped by the Weld-on bead.
>>>
>>> My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting
>>> epoxy into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success),
>>> but after discussions with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech
>>> support by the makers of Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the
>>> window and start over. There are some things I learned from
>>> these discussions that are worth sharing.
>>>
>>> Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach
>>> would work and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from
>>> Airplane Plastics in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with
>>> me on the phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea
>>> might work and suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the
>>> task. As we discussed the situation further, I was able to
>>> communicate that what we were really trying to do in this case
>>> was bond the window to the dried Weld-on 10... not the window to
>>> the fiberglass. He thought that could still work... as long as I
>>> could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
>>>
>>> So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives
>>> to Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had
>>> been a long time since he had actually installed a window... then
>>> recollected that the windows would pop out during the structural
>>> roll over test on the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to
>>> bond them in. With Weld-on 10, the window would break before the
>>> bond would. As I understood the conversation, Weld-on 10 was an
>>> important component of the plane passing the test. This made my
>>> decision to start over again certain.
>>>
>>> With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide
>>> double flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I
>>> had in my router and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied
>>> up the $150 to Vans for another window.
>>>
>>> I also made a call to tech support at IPS, the makers of Weld-on
>>> 10, hoping to find another product that would stay open longer.
>>> Here's what I learned:
>>>
>>> Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for
>>> this application
>>> At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the
>>> job done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
>>> Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
>>> manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
>>> They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for
>>> $300- $400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this
>>> purpose and called Weld-on 811.
>>>
>>> I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner
>>> might have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher
>>> and John Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in
>>> early January of this year.
>>>
>>> I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have
>>> stopped burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop
>>> at or below 70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set
>>> of hands to spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to
>>> pull up the masking tape once the window is down securely. The
>>> gun seems a bit pricey and I imagine I can find a way to spread
>>> the Weld-on 10 quickly and accurately without too much effort or
>>> expense.
>>>
>>> Jeff Carpenter
>>> 40304
>>> one step forward... two steps back
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | New garmin traffic system was announced |
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7176&Itemid=47
Cut and paste in your browser.
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261263#261263
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: New garmin traffic system was announced |
Wow, it comes with the standard Garmin price tag to go
along with it! Seems that the entry level system
wouldn't give the performance that the current Avidyne/Ryan
system would, but if you want to spend $20K, then you
could have quite a system. Also, it sounds like it's
Active live the Avidyne, but enhanced by ADS-B.
So, does that mean that if you're in ADS-B coverage
already that the ADS-B position info would be superior?
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Strasnuts wrote:
>
> http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7176&Itemid=47
>
>
> Cut and paste in your browser.
>
> --------
> Cust. #40936
> RV-10 SB Fuselage
> N801VR reserved
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261263#261263
>
>
Message 12
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|
Well evaluated and thought out. This will surely lead to a much better=2C e
ngineered result the second time.
I guess this is exactly what the building process is all about=2C albiet ve
ry frustrating. If only everyone's mind would work this way=2C the cars and
other products in this world would be all the much better.
Good science
Keep pluggin away.
> From: jeff@westcottpress.com
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
> Date: Wed=2C 2 Sep 2009 23:34:45 -0700
>
>
> As you may know=2C I attempted to install my left side door window last
> week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell=2C my shop
> was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up too quickly.
> The bond to the fiberglass was perfect=2C but I had voids between the
> window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of the bonding area. I
> had also failed to remove the masking tape from the inside of the
> window soon enough and had a fair amount of masking tape trapped by
> the Weld-on bead.
>
> My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting epoxy
> into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success)=2C but after
> discussions with Vans=2C the window manufacturer and tech support by the
> makers of Weld-on 10=2C I decided to route out the window and start
> over. There are some things I learned from these discussions that are
> worth sharing.
>
> Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would
> work and referred me to the window manufacturer=2C Jeff from Airplane
> Plastics in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with me on the
> phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea might work and
> suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task. As we
> discussed the situation further=2C I was able to communicate that what
> we were really trying to do in this case was bond the window to the
> dried Weld-on 10... not the window to the fiberglass. He thought that
> could still work... as long as I could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
>
> So=2C I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives to
> Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had been a
> long time since he had actually installed a window... then recollected
> that the windows would pop out during the structural roll over test on
> the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to bond them in. With
> Weld-on 10=2C the window would break before the bond would. As I
> understood the conversation=2C Weld-on 10 was an important component of
> the plane passing the test. This made my decision to start over again
> certain.
>
> With that=2C Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide double
> flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had in my
> router and it worked well)=2C I said good bye and ponied up the $150 to
> Vans for another window.
>
> I also made a call to tech support at IPS=2C the makers of Weld-on 10=2C
> hoping to find another product that would stay open longer. Here's
> what I learned:
>
> Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for this
> application
> At 70 degrees=2C there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the job
> done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
> Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
> manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
> They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300-
> $400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and
> called Weld-on 811.
>
> I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner might
> have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and John
> Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early January
> of this year.
>
> I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have stopped
> burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop at or below
> 70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set of hands to
> spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull up the masking
> tape once the window is down securely. The gun seems a bit pricey and
> I imagine I can find a way to spread the Weld-on 10 quickly and
> accurately without too much effort or expense.
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> one step forward... two steps back
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: New garmin traffic system was announced |
I think this system would be pretty nice. 9995.00 for the 12nm ring model
that would work for RV-10 speeds. I hate the price but the avidyne is
around 8,000 to 9,000 anyway isn't it? This one correlates both ADS-b and
radar.
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261277#261277
Message 14
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| Subject: | New Garmin traffic system was announced |
I have been looking at the GTS-800 for my G900X. I currently have TIS
Traffic which is fantastic where TIS is available. Unfortunately half of
my regular commute the TIS drops off "Traffic No Longer Available" and
then you are on your own. Or as I call it "old school."
When TIS is working it is a real comfort in the congested Los Angeles
basin where there can often be a dozen aircraft within a few miles of
you all going different directions at various altitudes and speeds. Most
of which you can't see. Helicopters seem to be the worst as they are low
and stationary. I am based where many of the heavy lift fire fighting
helicopters stage for fire & rescue (currently working the Station
Fire). Plus most all the local network news choppers so there is a lot
of roto activity. The other night I was departing WHP after 8:00 pm,
the tower was closed so I was in communication via CTAF with a NEWS
chopper flying low. I could not see them visually but had them on the
"fish finder." Because we were in communication and he had sight of me I
was able to fly right over the top of him (+1,000') and I confirmed he
was at 2,000 MSL. He responded with a surprised affirmative. I knew this
because I was climbing through 3,000 and my PFD showed "-1.0, -1.1,
-1.2..." and his direction vector.
When I visited Deems in mid-summer. Yes visiting Deems in AZ in
mid-summer. Duhhhhh. We were 8 miles out lining up for DVT with probably
7 other aircraft in the area. None were easily visible out the window
however I did see them on the display. It looked like herding cats as
they were all going different directions at different altitudes & speeds
but I could see as they all made their random turns for extended Left
Base entry to DVT. It was cool to see these random indications all line
up in front of me. With the visual verification I was able to easily
slide in with adequate spacing and set up for arrival. Nothing beats two
eyes out the window but Traffic is a wonderful additional tool to have
at your disposal.
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Strasnuts
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:37 AM
Subject: RV10-List: New garmin traffic system was announced
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=71
76&Itemid=47
Cut and paste in your browser.
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261263#261263
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/03/09 05:50:00
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: New Garmin traffic system was announced |
I wonder though, I see that although this map is old
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/enroute/surveillance_broadcast/coverage/
that ADS-B coverage for Segment 1 covers your area pretty well.
You can get ADS-B for $1500-1700 for some systems, so with
that, would the $9000 price tag be worth it? I was flying
between SLC and oregon over remote areas of Idaho a few
weeks ago and I was in ADS-B coverage. When near SLC I
was in Mode-S coverage. So while I completely agree
that Active Traffic is great, the timeline for implementation
isn't that far out for some of this stuff and it can be
done today and be fairly cheap. So it may fit the needs
of many. But, I can't tell you what will interface
with the G900X. It may well be that this new system
is your best choice simply because that's all that will
do the trick with your system.
One thing regardless, you're absolutely right that having
traffic is a big safety feature.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Robin Marks wrote:
>
> I have been looking at the GTS-800 for my G900X. I currently have TIS
> Traffic which is fantastic where TIS is available. Unfortunately half of
> my regular commute the TIS drops off "Traffic No Longer Available" and
> then you are on your own. Or as I call it "old school."
> When TIS is working it is a real comfort in the congested Los Angeles
> basin where there can often be a dozen aircraft within a few miles of
> you all going different directions at various altitudes and speeds. Most
> of which you can't see. Helicopters seem to be the worst as they are low
> and stationary. I am based where many of the heavy lift fire fighting
> helicopters stage for fire & rescue (currently working the Station
> Fire). Plus most all the local network news choppers so there is a lot
> of roto activity. The other night I was departing WHP after 8:00 pm,
> the tower was closed so I was in communication via CTAF with a NEWS
> chopper flying low. I could not see them visually but had them on the
> "fish finder." Because we were in communication and he had sight of me I
> was able to fly right over the top of him (+1,000') and I confirmed he
> was at 2,000 MSL. He responded with a surprised affirmative. I knew this
> because I was climbing through 3,000 and my PFD showed "-1.0, -1.1,
> -1.2..." and his direction vector.
> When I visited Deems in mid-summer. Yes visiting Deems in AZ in
> mid-summer. Duhhhhh. We were 8 miles out lining up for DVT with probably
> 7 other aircraft in the area. None were easily visible out the window
> however I did see them on the display. It looked like herding cats as
> they were all going different directions at different altitudes & speeds
> but I could see as they all made their random turns for extended Left
> Base entry to DVT. It was cool to see these random indications all line
> up in front of me. With the visual verification I was able to easily
> slide in with adequate spacing and set up for arrival. Nothing beats two
> eyes out the window but Traffic is a wonderful additional tool to have
> at your disposal.
>
> Robin
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Strasnuts
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:37 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: New garmin traffic system was announced
>
>
> http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=71
> 76&Itemid=47
>
>
> Cut and paste in your browser.
>
> --------
> Cust. #40936
> RV-10 SB Fuselage
> N801VR reserved
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261263#261263
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 09/03/09 05:50:00
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: New Garmin traffic system was announced |
Tim,
Can you fill us in a little on who is selling ADS-B for under $2K. I would
get that.
Oh, and...North Platte? Really?
Dave
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> I wonder though, I see that although this map is old
>
> http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/enroute/surveillance_broadcast/coverage/
> that ADS-B coverage for Segment 1 covers your area pretty well.
> You can get ADS-B for $1500-1700 for some systems, so with
> that, would the $9000 price tag be worth it? I was flying
> between SLC and oregon over remote areas of Idaho a few
> weeks ago and I was in ADS-B coverage. When near SLC I
> was in Mode-S coverage. So while I completely agree
> that Active Traffic is great, the timeline for implementation
> isn't that far out for some of this stuff and it can be
> done today and be fairly cheap. So it may fit the needs
> of many. But, I can't tell you what will interface
> with the G900X. It may well be that this new system
> is your best choice simply because that's all that will
> do the trick with your system.
>
> One thing regardless, you're absolutely right that having
> traffic is a big safety feature.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> Robin Marks wrote:
>
>>
>> I have been looking at the GTS-800 for my G900X. I currently have TIS
>> Traffic which is fantastic where TIS is available. Unfortunately half of
>> my regular commute the TIS drops off "Traffic No Longer Available" and
>> then you are on your own. Or as I call it "old school." When TIS is
>> working it is a real comfort in the congested Los Angeles
>> basin where there can often be a dozen aircraft within a few miles of
>> you all going different directions at various altitudes and speeds. Most
>> of which you can't see. Helicopters seem to be the worst as they are low
>> and stationary. I am based where many of the heavy lift fire fighting
>> helicopters stage for fire & rescue (currently working the Station
>> Fire). Plus most all the local network news choppers so there is a lot
>> of roto activity. The other night I was departing WHP after 8:00 pm,
>> the tower was closed so I was in communication via CTAF with a NEWS
>> chopper flying low. I could not see them visually but had them on the
>> "fish finder." Because we were in communication and he had sight of me I
>> was able to fly right over the top of him (+1,000') and I confirmed he
>> was at 2,000 MSL. He responded with a surprised affirmative. I knew this
>> because I was climbing through 3,000 and my PFD showed "-1.0, -1.1,
>> -1.2..." and his direction vector. When I visited Deems in mid-summer. Yes
>> visiting Deems in AZ in
>> mid-summer. Duhhhhh. We were 8 miles out lining up for DVT with probably
>> 7 other aircraft in the area. None were easily visible out the window
>> however I did see them on the display. It looked like herding cats as
>> they were all going different directions at different altitudes & speeds
>> but I could see as they all made their random turns for extended Left
>> Base entry to DVT. It was cool to see these random indications all line
>> up in front of me. With the visual verification I was able to easily
>> slide in with adequate spacing and set up for arrival. Nothing beats two
>> eyes out the window but Traffic is a wonderful additional tool to have
>> at your disposal.
>> Robin
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Strasnuts
>> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:37 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: New garmin traffic system was announced
>>
>>
>> http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=71
>> 76&Itemid=47
>>
>>
>> Cut and paste in your browser.
>>
>> --------
>> Cust. #40936
>> RV-10 SB Fuselage
>> N801VR reserved
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261263#261263
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 09/03/09 05:50:00
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | New Garmin traffic system was announced |
I think they are referring to www.navworx.com . My plan is to wait until
they get the $2500 version transceiver and interface to my Chelton displays.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: New Garmin traffic system was announced
Tim,
Can you fill us in a little on who is selling ADS-B for under $2K. I would
get that.
Oh, and...North Platte? Really?
Dave
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
I wonder though, I see that although this map is old
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/e
nroute/surveillance_broadcast/coverage/
that ADS-B coverage for Segment 1 covers your area pretty well.
You can get ADS-B for $1500-1700 for some systems, so with
that, would the $9000 price tag be worth it? I was flying
between SLC and oregon over remote areas of Idaho a few
weeks ago and I was in ADS-B coverage. When near SLC I
was in Mode-S coverage. So while I completely agree
that Active Traffic is great, the timeline for implementation
isn't that far out for some of this stuff and it can be
done today and be fairly cheap. So it may fit the needs
of many. But, I can't tell you what will interface
with the G900X. It may well be that this new system
is your best choice simply because that's all that will
do the trick with your system.
One thing regardless, you're absolutely right that having
traffic is a big safety feature.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Robin Marks wrote:
I have been looking at the GTS-800 for my G900X. I currently have TIS
Traffic which is fantastic where TIS is available. Unfortunately half of
my regular commute the TIS drops off "Traffic No Longer Available" and
then you are on your own. Or as I call it "old school." When TIS is working
it is a real comfort in the congested Los Angeles
basin where there can often be a dozen aircraft within a few miles of
you all going different directions at various altitudes and speeds. Most
of which you can't see. Helicopters seem to be the worst as they are low
and stationary. I am based where many of the heavy lift fire fighting
helicopters stage for fire & rescue (currently working the Station
Fire). Plus most all the local network news choppers so there is a lot
of roto activity. The other night I was departing WHP after 8:00 pm,
the tower was closed so I was in communication via CTAF with a NEWS
chopper flying low. I could not see them visually but had them on the
"fish finder." Because we were in communication and he had sight of me I
was able to fly right over the top of him (+1,000') and I confirmed he
was at 2,000 MSL. He responded with a surprised affirmative. I knew this
because I was climbing through 3,000 and my PFD showed "-1.0, -1.1,
-1.2..." and his direction vector. When I visited Deems in mid-summer. Yes
visiting Deems in AZ in
mid-summer. Duhhhhh. We were 8 miles out lining up for DVT with probably
7 other aircraft in the area. None were easily visible out the window
however I did see them on the display. It looked like herding cats as
they were all going different directions at different altitudes & speeds
but I could see as they all made their random turns for extended Left
Base entry to DVT. It was cool to see these random indications all line
up in front of me. With the visual verification I was able to easily
slide in with adequate spacing and set up for arrival. Nothing beats two
eyes out the window but Traffic is a wonderful additional tool to have
at your disposal.
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Strasnuts
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:37 AM
Subject: RV10-List: New garmin traffic system was announced
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content
<http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=71>
&task=view&id=71
76&Itemid=47
Cut and paste in your browser.
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261263#261263
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 09/03/09 05:50:00
==========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: New Garmin traffic system was announced |
I bought the NavWorx system for $1695, and it's 1495 without ARINC.
On my site I have a coulpe write ups but still need to get better
screenshots and stuff. They interface to lots of stuff including
Garmin handhelds, and for mine they merge GTX 330 tis with ads-b, so
other than active traffic which is of course the best, this takes
advantage of the other systems. I'm seeing more rural coverage than I
expected this early on.
Tim
On Sep 3, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com
> wrote:
> Tim,
>
> Can you fill us in a little on who is selling ADS-B for under $2K.
> I would get that.
>
> Oh, and...North Platte? Really?
>
> Dave
>
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> I wonder though, I see that although this map is old
> http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/enroute/surveillance_broadcast/coverage/
> that ADS-B coverage for Segment 1 covers your area pretty well.
> You can get ADS-B for $1500-1700 for some systems, so with
> that, would the $9000 price tag be worth it? I was flying
> between SLC and oregon over remote areas of Idaho a few
> weeks ago and I was in ADS-B coverage. When near SLC I
> was in Mode-S coverage. So while I completely agree
> that Active Traffic is great, the timeline for implementation
> isn't that far out for some of this stuff and it can be
> done today and be fairly cheap. So it may fit the needs
> of many. But, I can't tell you what will interface
> with the G900X. It may well be that this new system
> is your best choice simply because that's all that will
> do the trick with your system.
>
> One thing regardless, you're absolutely right that having
> traffic is a big safety feature.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> Robin Marks wrote:
>
> I have been looking at the GTS-800 for my G900X. I currently have TIS
> Traffic which is fantastic where TIS is available. Unfortunately
> half of
> my regular commute the TIS drops off "Traffic No Longer Available"
> and
> then you are on your own. Or as I call it "old school." When TIS is
> working it is a real comfort in the congested Los Angeles
> basin where there can often be a dozen aircraft within a few miles of
> you all going different directions at various altitudes and speeds.
> Most
> of which you can't see. Helicopters seem to be the worst as they are
> low
> and stationary. I am based where many of the heavy lift fire fighting
> helicopters stage for fire & rescue (currently working the Station
> Fire). Plus most all the local network news choppers so there is a lot
> of roto activity. The other night I was departing WHP after 8:00 pm,
> the tower was closed so I was in communication via CTAF with a NEWS
> chopper flying low. I could not see them visually but had them on the
> "fish finder." Because we were in communication and he had sight of
> me I
> was able to fly right over the top of him (+1,000') and I confirmed he
> was at 2,000 MSL. He responded with a surprised affirmative. I knew
> this
> because I was climbing through 3,000 and my PFD showed "-1.0, -1.1,
> -1.2..." and his direction vector. When I visited Deems in mid-
> summer. Yes visiting Deems in AZ in
> mid-summer. Duhhhhh. We were 8 miles out lining up for DVT with
> probably
> 7 other aircraft in the area. None were easily visible out the window
> however I did see them on the display. It looked like herding cats as
> they were all going different directions at different altitudes &
> speeds
> but I could see as they all made their random turns for extended Left
> Base entry to DVT. It was cool to see these random indications all
> line
> up in front of me. With the visual verification I was able to easily
> slide in with adequate spacing and set up for arrival. Nothing beats
> two
> eyes out the window but Traffic is a wonderful additional tool to have
> at your disposal.
> Robin
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Strasnuts
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:37 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: New garmin traffic system was announced
>
>
> http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=71
> 76&Itemid=47
>
>
> Cut and paste in your browser.
>
> --------
> Cust. #40936
> RV-10 SB Fuselage
> N801VR reserved
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261263#261263
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 09/03/09 05:50:00
>
>
> ==========
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> --
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters LLC
> 140 Aviation Way
> Watsonville, CA 95076
> 831-722-9141 Shop
> 831-750-0284 Cell
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Window Write-Up |
A little trick passed on to me from Dave Head, who may have heard it from someone
else, is to put the container of mixed weld-on in a tray of ice water. This
will extend the working time a bit. (The stuff in the container cures faster
than the stuff which has been spread on the windows, due to the build up of heat).
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261314#261314
Message 20
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|
Is there any reason not to just use Scotch Weld 2216 instead of Weld-on 10?
I used this for the control surface tailing edges and like the product.
Carl Froehlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:35 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window last
week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell, my shop
was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up too quickly.
The bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had voids between the
window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of the bonding area. I
had also failed to remove the masking tape from the inside of the
window soon enough and had a fair amount of masking tape trapped by
the Weld-on bead.
My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting epoxy
into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success), but after
discussions with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech support by the
makers of Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the window and start
over. There are some things I learned from these discussions that are
worth sharing.
Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would
work and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from Airplane
Plastics in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with me on the
phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea might work and
suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task. As we
discussed the situation further, I was able to communicate that what
we were really trying to do in this case was bond the window to the
dried Weld-on 10... not the window to the fiberglass. He thought that
could still work... as long as I could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives to
Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had been a
long time since he had actually installed a window... then recollected
that the windows would pop out during the structural roll over test on
the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to bond them in. With
Weld-on 10, the window would break before the bond would. As I
understood the conversation, Weld-on 10 was an important component of
the plane passing the test. This made my decision to start over again
certain.
With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide double
flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had in my
router and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied up the $150 to
Vans for another window.
I also made a call to tech support at IPS, the makers of Weld-on 10,
hoping to find another product that would stay open longer. Here's
what I learned:
Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for this
application
At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the job
done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300-
$400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and
called Weld-on 811.
I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner might
have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and John
Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early January
of this year.
I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have stopped
burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop at or below
70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set of hands to
spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull up the masking
tape once the window is down securely. The gun seems a bit pricey and
I imagine I can find a way to spread the Weld-on 10 quickly and
accurately without too much effort or expense.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
one step forward... two steps back
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | New Garmin traffic system was announced |
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Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: A kid.. Really?? |
While we're on the subject of new family members I thought I'd throw in
mine. Add 1 more to the family. Bristol Ashlyn was born on Aug. 28. 5 lbs.
9 ozs. and 6 weeks early. Spent 5 days in Wichita KS at Wesley med center
in the NICU for preemies. Back closer to home at Great Bend, KS hospital
now and doing great. Her 8 year old brother and 5 year old sister finally
got to play with and hold her for a little bit tonight. AWESOME doesn't
even come close to describing how mom and I feel right now. Hope I feel
close to the same excitement if I ever get my -10 done!!!!!
By the way, do not archive!!!!!
Back to RV's.
Bill Britton
RV-10 wings
Oh yeah, anybody that's installed a bench seat in the rear got any
suggestions/pictures for me???
----- Original Message -----
From: "nukeflyboy" <flymoore@charter.net>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: A kid.. Really??
>
> Phil,
> Congratulations! You are about to embark on the most rewarding and
> challenging adventure in your life. You have no idea, but that little 7
> lb bundle will be the center of your universe for quite a while. It is a
> journey worth doing well.
>
> Building a RV-10 and fatherhood are not totally incompatible, but you
> should expect the airplane to take a serious back seat. If you want to
> keep them, then the family will have to come first. I started my RV-6 in
> 1992 when my 2 daughters were 7 and 9. Working on the 6 was my hobby and
> stress reliever, but the family always came first. Result: 8 years and 3
> months to build.
>
> My advice is to keep building but make it a low second priority. The kit
> will wait, forget about completion schedules, and just look at building as
> an alternative to golf or television.
>
> --------
> Dave Moore
> RV-6 flying
> RV-10 QB - cabin top/fiberglass hell
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260696#260696
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
05:50:00
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: A kid.. Really?? |
congrats Bill!
lovely family.
On Sep 3, 2009, at 9:30 PM, Bill and Tami Britton wrote:
> While we're on the subject of new family members I thought I'd throw
> in mine. Add 1 more to the family. Bristol Ashlyn was born on Aug.
> 28. 5 lbs. 9 ozs. and 6 weeks early. Spent 5 days in Wichita KS at
> Wesley med center in the NICU for preemies. Back closer to home at
> Great Bend, KS hospital now and doing great. Her 8 year old brother
> and 5 year old sister finally got to play with and hold her for a
> little bit tonight. AWESOME doesn't even come close to describing
> how mom and I feel right now. Hope I feel close to the same
> excitement if I ever get my -10 done!!!!!
>
> By the way, do not archive!!!!!
>
> Back to RV's.
>
> Bill Britton
> RV-10 wings
>
> Oh yeah, anybody that's installed a bench seat in the rear got any
> suggestions/pictures for me???
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "nukeflyboy" <flymoore@charter.net>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:37 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: A kid.. Really??
>
>
>>
>> Phil,
>> Congratulations! You are about to embark on the most rewarding and
>> challenging adventure in your life. You have no idea, but that
>> little 7 lb bundle will be the center of your universe for quite a
>> while. It is a journey worth doing well.
>>
>> Building a RV-10 and fatherhood are not totally incompatible, but
>> you should expect the airplane to take a serious back seat. If you
>> want to keep them, then the family will have to come first. I
>> started my RV-6 in 1992 when my 2 daughters were 7 and 9. Working
>> on the 6 was my hobby and stress reliever, but the family always
>> came first. Result: 8 years and 3 months to build.
>>
>> My advice is to keep building but make it a low second priority.
>> The kit will wait, forget about completion schedules, and just look
>> at building as an alternative to golf or television.
>>
>> --------
>> Dave Moore
>> RV-6 flying
>> RV-10 QB - cabin top/fiberglass hell
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260696#260696
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 05:50:00
> <Bristol 004.jpg><Bristol 012.jpg>
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