Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:41 AM - Re: Painting The Baffling... (Richard Bibb)
2. 04:41 AM - Re: Riveting wing skin (Richard Bibb)
3. 05:20 AM - Re: Riveting wing skin (John Trollinger)
4. 05:22 AM - Re: Re: Riveting wing skin (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
5. 06:18 AM - Re: Re: Riveting wing skin (Richard Bibb)
6. 06:25 AM - Re: Re: Riveting wing skin (Kelly McMullen)
7. 07:19 AM - Re: Painting The Baffling... (Dj Merrill)
8. 07:47 AM - Re: Re: Brake line exit holes (Perry, Phil)
9. 07:50 AM - Re: Painting The Baffling... (Richard Bibb)
10. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: Brake line exit holes (Perry, Phil)
11. 12:01 PM - Re: Riveting wing skin (Bob Turner)
12. 01:01 PM - Re: Painting The Baffling... (nukeflyboy)
13. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: Painting The Baffling... (Geoff Combs)
14. 02:07 PM - operators handbook rv10 (Robert Brunkenhoefer)
15. 03:10 PM - Re: Rivet direction? Important comment!!!! (Don McDonald)
16. 03:43 PM - Re: Painting The Baffling... (Fred Williams, M.D.)
Message 1
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Subject: | Painting The Baffling... |
I wouldn't worry about powder coating the baffling for reasons cited. I'm
making modifications to my RV-4 baffling and am using 5052 cause I have some
lying around and it sure is easier to form.
I wouldn't anodize because, over-time you will have to take the stuff off a
couple of times and it will get scratched. At least with paint or powder if
you do scratch it you can touch it up easier than having to send the whole
piece out for re-anodizing. That would get expensive with all the lot
charges.
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:02 PM
rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Painting The Baffling...
Dear Listers,
I had been planning on black anodizing the various engine baffling pieces in
keeping with my black-n-chrome theme under the hood. But I'm noticing that
the pieces are getting pretty scratched up during all of this extra fitting
that's necessary for the IO-390. Since the pieces can't be run through a
surfacer first because of the bends, I'm rethinking how good anodizing is
really going to look.
I know we're not suppose to power coat the 2024-T3 because the curing heat
required can un-T3 the 2024, but does it really matter for the baffling?
Its not really structural, per say. And if power coating is alright, what
effects will the engine compartment heat have on the power coating? There's
probably a high-temp power coat, but it would likely require a higher curing
temp, and that get's us back to the first sentence of this paragraph...
Power coating the baffling would definitely look pretty cool.
Has anyone ever chromed their baffling? That would look super cool. Can
you chrome 2024-T3? How much would that cost compared to power coating?
Am I fussing too much under the hood? ;-)
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com
FWF Baffling, Intake, and Governor...
Message 2
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Subject: | Riveting wing skin |
I haven't riveted skins on a -10 wing yet but on my RV-4 I did one in the
stand and one on a table. I preferred the table as gravity held the rivets
in place before I got the gun on them and I avoided picking up all that fell
on the floor.
Also, there used to be a school of thought to slightly heat the skins before
final riveting so that, as they cooled post riveting, they would be tighter.
Not sure if that actually works but I did rivet one set of -4 wings
horizontal on saw horses outside in the sun and they turned out nice. Had
to be careful not to get burned as the skins sure got warm in a hurry.
Since you are in Arizona you might not want to try that.
Obviously it turns out to be a personal preference and at least no one has
started a flame war on this one yet - skirmish perhaps but hardly classified
as a minor engagement let alone full hostilities.
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of woxofswa
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 2:58 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Riveting wing skin
I'm close to riveting my first QB wing skin.
Is the consensus of the brain trust that it is easier to do flat on a table
or upright in a stand?
Thanks in advance.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263994#263994
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Riveting wing skin |
Wow, did not mean to get you all riled up, I just was trying to let they gu
y
know that there is not one approach to doing this. I myself set it up righ
t
on the bench, but as you can see other people did it other ways. I was
trying to let the builder know that it is ok to try out different technique
s
and find out which worked best for them. The one thing that is nice about
this group is they all bring their unique way of solving a problem and give
other builders options that they might not have thought of or tried.
On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 8:33 PM, <ricksked@embarqmail.com> wrote:
> Oh that's helpful!!! "Good luck" WTF!! I wasn't going to respond, but
> A-hole check intervention. I did it solo on the wing stand....worked
> great... Take your time.....for those still building this is sure fun to
> fly...keep pounding...and wiring and painting. Etc., etc,.....
>
> Rick S.
> N246RS
> Flying
>
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> ------------------------------
> *From*: John Trollinger
> *Date*: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:07:03 -0400
> *To*: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject*: Re: RV10-List: Riveting wing skin
> good luck getting a consensus here.. everyone has what works for them and
> t= hat is different for everyone.=C2- Try a way and see if it wor
ks well
> for= you, if not, try another way.
>
> John
>
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Bill Watson <mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wro
> te:
>
> I did my wing upright, singlehanded. =C2-Worked well
>
> <= span> -- Sent from my Palm Pr=C4=93
>
> ------------------------------
> Bob Leffler wrote:
>
> --> RV10-List me= ssage posted by: "Bob Leffler" <rv@thelefflers.com>
>
> I did mine upright in the wing stand.
>
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of woxofswa
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 3:58 PM
> To: rv10-l= ist@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Riveting wing skin
>
>
>
> I'm close to riveting my first QB wing skin.
>
> Is the consensus of the brain trust that it is easier to do flat on a t
> able
> or upright in a stand?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D263994#263= 994
>
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
> * get=3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List tp://fo
rums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution *
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D *
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Riveting wing skin |
Acutally, I thought I discerned a pattern - on the bench for 2 people
and upright for 1. FWIW, I can't imagine how 1 person does it on the
bench but I'm sure someone did.
Another thanks to Deems for the safety wire pics. I forgot where I saw
that but it worked like a charm. Like so many jobs, it's very
satisfying once it's done.
Note that you may need to file down the leading edge of the skin just a
bit so that it clears the leading edge skins when it's riveted on.
Bill
woxofswa wrote:
>
> Thanks for the input. I didn't realize that I had breached "Ginger vs Mary Ann
territory. :)
>
> For some silly reason I thought there would be a clear cut logic based reason
for one particular way. Maybe I'll do one one way and the other the other and
give a detailed pro/con for the next schmuck down the line.
>
> On second thought, the safety wire in the stand sounds intriguing.
>
> That's it. I'm going to do it on the stand. (unless I do it on the table).
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264077#264077
>
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Riveting wing skin |
Actually I was able to do my RV-4 wings by myself on the bench. I have long
arms and was able to reach from the rear spar to the front to buck the row
of rivets where the skin attaches to the front spar. It wasn't really all
that much of a stretch as I recall. I don't think the -10 wing will be all
that different in that regard.
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mauledriver
Watson
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Riveting wing skin
<MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
Acutally, I thought I discerned a pattern - on the bench for 2 people
and upright for 1. FWIW, I can't imagine how 1 person does it on the
bench but I'm sure someone did.
Another thanks to Deems for the safety wire pics. I forgot where I saw
that but it worked like a charm. Like so many jobs, it's very
satisfying once it's done.
Note that you may need to file down the leading edge of the skin just a
bit so that it clears the leading edge skins when it's riveted on.
Bill
woxofswa wrote:
>
> Thanks for the input. I didn't realize that I had breached "Ginger vs
Mary Ann territory. :)
>
> For some silly reason I thought there would be a clear cut logic based
reason for one particular way. Maybe I'll do one one way and the other the
other and give a detailed pro/con for the next schmuck down the line.
>
> On second thought, the safety wire in the stand sounds intriguing.
>
> That's it. I'm going to do it on the stand. (unless I do it on the
table).
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264077#264077
>
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Riveting wing skin |
I wish someone would summarize the old primer wars arguments(reader's
digest style, so to speak), just so that the newbies, and not so
newbies could decide which way to go, without a need to relight the
arguments, and whether those of us that didn't bother to research
could decide whether we need to give up our corroding parts carcass
and start over. ;-))
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 12:29 AM, woxofswa <woxof@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the input. I didn't realize that I had breached "Ginger vs Mary Ann
territory. :)
>
> For some silly reason I thought there would be a clear cut logic based reason
for one particular way. Maybe I'll do one one way and the other the other and
give a detailed pro/con for the next schmuck down the line.
>
> On second thought, the safety wire in the stand sounds intriguing.
>
> That's it. I'm going to do it on the stand. (unless I do it on the table).
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264077#264077
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Painting The Baffling... |
On 09/20/2009 11:02 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
> Has anyone ever chromed their baffling? That would look super cool. Can you
chrome 2024-T3? How much would that cost compared to power coating?
>
>
I've seen chrome colored baffling. I can't tell you if it was
chromed, or just chrome colored paint, but it did indeed look super
cool. :-)
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Brake line exit holes |
I don't have my documentation with me this morning and I can't seem to
find Section 4 on Tim's site.
Does anyone know if the main gear mounts are 4130? I think I've found
an aircraft welder who can patch the hole for me, but I'd like to be
certain of the material first.
Thanks,
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil White [mailto:philwhite9@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 4:20 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Brake line exit holes
Phil: We Phil's can hang together, as we make the same mistakes. Look
at the photo attached, which shows how I put a small piece of .035 or
.041 with the correct smaller hole in it, on top of the gear leg flange,
put the fitting thru, and 'twas fixed. the slightly oversize hole in
that flange won't cause a problem.
Can't recall whether there is a washer on the underside or not, but
the fitting is solidly attached to the plane now.
Phil White
#40220
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264005#264005
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/brake_line_hole_patch_sml_198.jpg
Message 9
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Subject: | Painting The Baffling... |
You can't chrome aluminum....
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Merrill
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Painting The Baffling...
On 09/20/2009 11:02 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
> Has anyone ever chromed their baffling? That would look super cool. Can
you chrome 2024-T3? How much would that cost compared to power coating?
>
>
I've seen chrome colored baffling. I can't tell you if it was
chromed, or just chrome colored paint, but it did indeed look super
cool. :-)
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Brake line exit holes |
Got the answer for those who are wondering. (Or for those who might
search the archives later.)
1) Yes, it is 4130.
2) Unfortunately the mount has been heat treated. So touching the thing
with a welder is not a good idea for fear of weakening the structure.
3) Van's doesn't believe there is a structural issue with the hole, but
they're running it by engineering to check.
4) The proposed solution from Van's is to insert a bushing into the hole
and then a large flat washer on top to hold it into position.
Once we reach a resolution, I'll send the fix for the archives.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Perry, Phil
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:27 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Brake line exit holes
I don't have my documentation with me this morning and I can't seem to
find Section 4 on Tim's site.
Does anyone know if the main gear mounts are 4130? I think I've found
an aircraft welder who can patch the hole for me, but I'd like to be
certain of the material first.
Thanks,
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil White [mailto:philwhite9@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 4:20 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Brake line exit holes
Phil: We Phil's can hang together, as we make the same mistakes. Look
at the photo attached, which shows how I put a small piece of .035 or
.041 with the correct smaller hole in it, on top of the gear leg flange,
put the fitting thru, and 'twas fixed. the slightly oversize hole in
that flange won't cause a problem.
Can't recall whether there is a washer on the underside or not, but
the fitting is solidly attached to the plane now.
Phil White
#40220
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264005#264005
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/brake_line_hole_patch_sml_198.jpg
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Riveting wing skin |
I did it laid down horizontally; one person, short arms.
Whatever works for you.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264183#264183
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Painting The Baffling... |
I used a clear coat on my RV-6 baffles and 9 flying years later it does not look
that good. It has yellowed somewhat and the baffles do move around a bit leaving
rub marks. I don't know if paint holds up better but it sounds like it.
I recall that it took a lot of persuasion to get the baffles in place, which
will scratch any paint. You also need to RTV the gaps. I don't know why you
would need to remove the baffles frequently. I have not ever and don't anticipate
it for another 10 years.
Whatever you use needs to hold up to bugs and heat. The engine paint does not
hold up well either (at least Lycoming gray) so it will look good under the hood
for only a short time. Unless you are building a show plane I would not worry
much about it. Few people will ever see it.
If you are building a show plane then go nuts (like the rest) and get it gold plated.
Or better yet use carbon fibers and make a pressure cowl, then gold plate
that. Or better yet write a big check and have someone else do it.
Sorry about that last comment - I could not help myself.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB - cabin top/fiberglass hell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264192#264192
Message 13
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|
Subject: | Re: Painting The Baffling... |
I powder coated them after they were built. Not my idea but a have seen
I
few do this and they look great and seem to hold up well.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
President
Aerosport Modeling & Design
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-5227p
614-834-5230f
www.aerosportmodeling.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nukeflyboy
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:00 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Painting The Baffling...
I used a clear coat on my RV-6 baffles and 9 flying years later it does
not
look that good. It has yellowed somewhat and the baffles do move around
a
bit leaving rub marks. I don't know if paint holds up better but it
sounds
like it. I recall that it took a lot of persuasion to get the baffles
in
place, which will scratch any paint. You also need to RTV the gaps. I
don't know why you would need to remove the baffles frequently. I have
not
ever and don't anticipate it for another 10 years.
Whatever you use needs to hold up to bugs and heat. The engine paint
does
not hold up well either (at least Lycoming gray) so it will look good
under
the hood for only a short time. Unless you are building a show plane I
would not worry much about it. Few people will ever see it.
If you are building a show plane then go nuts (like the rest) and get it
gold plated. Or better yet use carbon fibers and make a pressure cowl,
then
gold plate that. Or better yet write a big check and have someone else
do
it.
Sorry about that last comment - I could not help myself.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB - cabin top/fiberglass hell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264192#264192
Message 14
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Subject: | operators handbook rv10 |
i have a io540 , afs 3500, trutrak dgsv, and 1 lightspeed ignition w/
backup alternator. does anyone out there have a handbook i can adapt
for my little 661G ?
Message 15
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Subject: | Rivet direction? Important comment!!!! |
Gotcha Bob... Pascal already updated me on the list on Tim's site.=C2- Ma
ybe we should provide some directions as to how their info can be updated.
=C2- I know several that are on the list without updated info, and some t
hat aren't even on the list.
Thanks again, Don
--- On Sat, 9/19/09, Bob Leffler <rv@thelefflers.com> wrote:
From: Bob Leffler <rv@thelefflers.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rivet direction? Important comment!!!!
Don,
=C2-
A better idea is to encourage everyone to register on Tim=99s site, w
here contact information is secure.=C2- I have no problem if any new RV-1
0 builder gives me a call looking to get questions answered, but I prefer t
o not post my unlisted phone number on a public forum.
=C2-
Bob
=C2-
=C2-
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Don McDonald
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rivet direction? Important comment!!!!
=C2-
Hey guys, can we follow the new guys lead (gosh, it's kind of nice NOT to b
e the new guy anymore) and put our address and maybe a phone number on the
bottom of each email.=C2- It sure would make it easier to contact each ot
her for both direct questions/responses, and linking up on cross country fl
ights.=C2- What do ya think?
Don McDonald
Lincoln CA=C2- LHM
916-801-8402
--- On Thu, 9/17/09, Sam Clark <helosammy@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Sam Clark <helosammy@gmail.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Rivet direction?
Hello RV-10 builders,
=C2- I have just started building.=C2- I pretty much jumped right in wi
th both feet and it seems to be going well so far. I have finished the vert
stab and am getting ready to start riveting the rudder.=C2- I started on
the horizontal stab spars while waiting for a replacement rudder stiffener
and have come across a bit of a perplexing question, how do I know which w
ay to orient the rivets?=C2- It isn=99t really clear in the plans,
I think they should probably all go the same direction so the side I counte
rsink gives a pretty good clue to the direction a flush rivet goes.=C2- A
m I correct in thinking they all go the same direction or does it matter?
=C2- I know for the trailing edges I should alternate direction to help k
eep things straight.=C2- Any insight would help, thanks in advance.
=C2-
Sam Clark
Lexington Park, MD
=C2- =C2- =C2-get=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?RV10-List=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.comblank rel=nofollo
w>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=C2- =C2- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://foru
ms.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2-
=0A=0A=0A
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Subject: | Re: Painting The Baffling... |
Matt;
I don't see any reason why the baffling wouldn't hold up being powder
coated. I think it would look cool. It also would be easier to clean
the front dams where they get all bugged up.
It's just money......
Dr Fred.
515FW.
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