---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/25/09: 42 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:24 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move (Patrick Thyssen) 2. 12:36 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move (Patrick Thyssen) 3. 05:13 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move (Don McDonald) 4. 06:27 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move (William Curtis) 5. 07:12 AM - Re: Window trim - inside (Marcus Cooper) 6. 07:13 AM - Re: Chargers ...... and batteries (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 7. 07:13 AM - Re: Chargers (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 8. 08:08 AM - Re: Chargers (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 9. 08:10 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 10. 08:12 AM - Re: Chargers (David McNeill) 11. 08:30 AM - Door hinges (Chris Hukill) 12. 08:59 AM - Re: Chargers (David McNeill) 13. 09:11 AM - Re: Door hinges (Pascal) 14. 09:34 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move (Tim Olson) 15. 09:34 AM - Re: Chargers (Linn Walters) 16. 09:34 AM - Re: Chargers (Tim Olson) 17. 09:41 AM - Re: Door hinges (Les Kearney) 18. 10:08 AM - Re: Door hinges (Les Kearney) 19. 10:18 AM - Re: Door hinges (Jeff Carpenter) 20. 10:34 AM - Re: Chargers (David McNeill) 21. 10:39 AM - Re: Door hinges (Bob Turner) 22. 10:40 AM - Chargers (David McNeill) 23. 11:39 AM - 12248 (David McNeill) 24. 11:39 AM - Re: Chargers (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 25. 11:40 AM - Flap positioning system (Kelly McMullen) 26. 11:42 AM - Re: Flap positioning system (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 27. 12:04 PM - Re: Flap positioning system (Rick Sked) 28. 12:05 PM - Re: Flap positioning system (Tim Olson) 29. 12:12 PM - Re: Chargers (David McNeill) 30. 12:20 PM - Re: Flap positioning system (John Cumins) 31. 12:39 PM - Re: Flap positioning system (Kelly McMullen) 32. 12:51 PM - Re: Flap positioning system (Rene Felker) 33. 01:11 PM - Re: Flap positioning system (Tim Olson) 34. 01:11 PM - Re: Chargers (Robin Marks) 35. 01:21 PM - chargers (David McNeill) 36. 01:22 PM - Re: Chargers (Brian) 37. 01:41 PM - Re: Flap positioning system (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 38. 03:41 PM - G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions () 39. 06:25 PM - Re: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions (Robin Marks) 40. 07:54 PM - Re: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions (Dave Leikam) 41. 08:13 PM - Re: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions (Tim Olson) 42. 08:13 PM - Re: Flap positioning system (John Gonzalez) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:24:12 AM PST US From: Patrick Thyssen Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move That big old red hose goes to, you guessed it, the fuel pump on another eng ine I changed on a super Decath this year. There must be a reason for these things. -So I might think about putting a good cooling hose to help out on coolin g fuel. Patrick Thyssen --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Patrick Thyssen wrote: From: Patrick Thyssen Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move One thing I have just thought about and correct me if I'm wrong. From the f uel pump to the fuel pressure sending unit is up hill or above the fuel pum p. This being said if you get air in your hoses going to your pressure tran sducer from- being hot [vapor] then you could have a problem as to what i t is reporting. By having a compression of air instead of solid liquid. -Lets hear from the engineers. Patrick Thyssen Engine pickled again!!! for new instrument panel -Oh how I love OP --- On Thu, 9/24/09, McGann, Ron wrote: From: McGann, Ron Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer=0A Move au> Only 40 hours but same experience as Marcus.- Only irregluarity comes when the boost pump is engaged but the totaliser function always appears to reflect remaining fuel to within a gallon or so. Ron McGann Head of Engineering Security Solutions & Services Aerospace Tel: +61 2 9562 3530 | Mob: +61 (0) 466 655 393 | Fax: +61 2 9562 2100 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper Sent: Friday, 25 September 2009 2:45 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move I have about 430 hours with the transducer in the plans location.- No real issues although I do notice a slight FF drop when I turn the boost pump off. So far it has been very accurate and consistent. Marcus 40286 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Leonard Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:05 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interesting to get feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally suggested. Are any of you having any trouble with the transducer in=0A that location? How many people have moved the unit=0A because of inaccurate readings or other problems? -------- Nick Leonard RV-10 (40015) Finish Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706 DISCLAIMER:---------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and previous e-mail messa ges attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain proprietary o r copyright material or information that is subject to legal professional privilege. Th ey are for the use of the intended recipient only.- Any unauthorised viewing, use, d isclosure, copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance on, this messa ge is strictly prohibited. No part may=0A be reproduced,=0A adapted or transmitte d without the written permission of the owner. If you have received this transmission in error, or are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify the sender by re turn email, delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system, and destroy any printed copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient should not be d eemed a waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does not warrant or represent that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail messages attac hed are error or virus free. --------------------------------------------------------------------k" href ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matroni="_bl ank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List=0Ablank" hre f="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.=== =============== =0A ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:36:27 AM PST US From: Patrick Thyssen Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move Here is another picture of a fuel pump on M7-235 Maule I changed earlier th is year. big red hose for airconditioning of fuel pump. Patrick Thyssen --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Patrick Thyssen wrote: From: Patrick Thyssen Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move One thing I have just thought about and correct me if I'm wrong. From the f uel pump to the fuel pressure sending unit is up hill or above the fuel pum p. This being said if you get air in your hoses going to your pressure tran sducer from- being hot [vapor] then you could have a problem as to what i t is reporting. By having a compression of air instead of solid liquid. -Lets hear from the engineers. Patrick Thyssen Engine pickled again!!! for new instrument panel -Oh how I love OP --- On Thu, 9/24/09, McGann, Ron wrote: From: McGann, Ron Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer=0A Move au> Only 40 hours but same experience as Marcus.- Only irregluarity comes when the boost pump is engaged but the totaliser function always appears to reflect remaining fuel to within a gallon or so. Ron McGann Head of Engineering Security Solutions & Services Aerospace Tel: +61 2 9562 3530 | Mob: +61 (0) 466 655 393 | Fax: +61 2 9562 2100 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper Sent: Friday, 25 September 2009 2:45 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move I have about 430 hours with the transducer in the plans location.- No real issues although I do notice a slight FF drop when I turn the boost pump off. So far it has been very accurate and consistent. Marcus 40286 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Leonard Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:05 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interesting to get feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally suggested. Are any of you having any trouble with the transducer in=0A that location? How many people have moved the unit=0A because of inaccurate readings or other problems? -------- Nick Leonard RV-10 (40015) Finish Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706 DISCLAIMER:---------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and previous e-mail messa ges attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain proprietary o r copyright material or information that is subject to legal professional privilege. Th ey are for the use of the intended recipient only.- Any unauthorised viewing, use, d isclosure, copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance on, this messa ge is strictly prohibited. No part may=0A be reproduced,=0A adapted or transmitte d without the written permission of the owner. If you have received this transmission in error, or are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify the sender by re turn email, delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system, and destroy any printed copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient should not be d eemed a waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does not warrant or represent that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail messages attac hed are error or virus free. --------------------------------------------------------------------k" href ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matroni="_bl ank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List=0Ablank" hre f="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.=== =============== =0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:02 AM PST US From: Don McDonald Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move Ditto. Don McDonald --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Rene Felker wrote: From: Rene Felker Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move I left mine in the standard position.- I see very minor fluctuations....I do not think it is a problem. Rene' Felker RV-10 N423CF Flying 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Leonard Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:05 AM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interesting to get feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally suggested.- Are any of you having any trouble with the transducer in that location? How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate readings or other problems? -------- Nick Leonard RV-10 (40015) Finish Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706 le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move From: William Curtis Patrick, Which statement(s) do you stand by? -Reading a 12 year old publication from JPI which documents the installation of a Flowscan transducer, NOT an EI red cube transducer? -Not using sealant on NPT fittings? ---really? why do you and JPI suggest not using sealant on NPT fittings? -Use of aluminum fittings on the transducer? You do realize that the EI red cube transducer is made of aluminum, right? Because I said I did not read the JPI manual, does not mean I did not read the EI or AFS installation manuals which are MUCH more updated. Why don't YOU take a look at the EI installation manual. You will find no such admonishment on using aluminum or 90 degree fittings. In fact, on page 5 you will see 45 degree and 90 degree fittings as approved for installation with the red cube. Here is a link to the EI fuel flow installation instructions. http://buy-ei.com/Information/II%20-%20FP-5.pdf William http://wcurtis.nerv10.com On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Patrick Thyssen wrote: > I'LL STAND BY MY STATEMENT WITH THE ADDED INSERT, EI MAKE INSTALLATION > MANUALS ALSO. THEY REFERENCE AC43-13 ALSO. YOUR LOSS FOR NOT READING > EVERYTHING YOU CAN. YOU WOULD LEARN A LOT MORE. > PATRICK THYSSEN > > > --- On *Thu, 9/24/09, William Curtis * wrote: > > > From: William Curtis > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 3:10 PM > > Guess you did not read the caption above the photo regarding the aluminum > fitting. NPT fittings benefit from sealant, AN fittings do not. The inlet > to the flow transducer is NPT. As far as the 90 degree fitting out from the > transducer, well that's what I have now on the Cardinal and it works just > fine. The instrument I have in the Cardinal is Electronics International, > the OEM for the "red cube" transducer so no, I never read nor plan to read > the JPI manual. > > William > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Patrick Thyssen wrote: > >> Question, Why the teflon tape or pipe sealent? Why aluminum fitting >> into the transducer? >> JP instruments and I suggest never ever use that stuff on the transducer. >> And it would be a lot better if you had a straight out fitting from the >> transducer. Not the ninety. Good book to read Is the JPI installation >> manual. I think it''s the second page where it says, read this first. >> But that just my opinion and we all have one. >> Patrick Thyssen >> >> But then I too made a mistake and bought OP Equiptment And now I'm fixing >> that. >> Dual 430w and garmin G500. Now I know they will work. >> >> >> --- On *Thu, 9/24/09, William Curtis * wrote: >> >> >> From: William Curtis >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 11:56 AM >> >> I think the general consensus is that is works fine in the standard >> location (tunnel) if you can accept some variability in flow indications >> when the electric fuel pump is on. With that being said, mine sits BEFORE >> the flow divider on top of the air box in the picture below. It is not >> flying yet but in my Cardinal it is AFTER the mechanical fuel pump BEFORE >> the servo and very stable. >> >> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/90Electrical/EL2g.html >> >> William >> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Nick Leonard >> > wrote: >> >>> > >>> >>> As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interesting to get >>> feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally suggested. Are >>> any of you having any trouble with the transducer in that location? >>> >>> How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate readings or >>> other problems? >>> >>> -------- >>> Nick Leonard >>> RV-10 (40015) Finish >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706 >>> t Un/Subscription, >>> www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank"> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >>> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>> Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> ==== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Lisk" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> gt; * >> >> * >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List >> ttp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> > ** > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:37 AM PST US From: "Marcus Cooper" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Window trim - inside Doug, One option is to wait until you install the interior and then go with something like Flightline interiors (http://www.flightlineinteriors.com/) has which is cloth sewn around some foam to form a bead that goes around the window. Looks very nice, however make sure you use plenty of glue and force a little extra material around the window if possible as mine shrunk slightly and pulled away from the glue. Marcus 40286 Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n277dl Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 3:48 PM Subject: RV10-List: Window trim - inside Group... Linda and I glued the windows and wind screen in permanently last weekend using Weldon 10. Worked much easier with cooler temps ... below 70 in the garage early in the morning than when we did the doors a few months back. (I put one bottle of weld10 in the fridge overnight and it seemed to be even a little slower to set up) These turned out pretty well. On the outside of the windows, I'll use some lite weight cloth to fair the transition from plexi to fiberglass. What are the options on the inside of the windows where the weldon - plexi - fiberglass cabin frame meet? Mine's not terrible and I attempted to smooth out the fair with weldon but it could be smoother and more consistent. Is there any kind of caulking that will smooth the transition? Thanks, Doug -------- Doug "Fools" are always more creative than process people and will always find ways to ruin a perfectly good set of processes. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264780#264780 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:36 AM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers ...... and batteries A really expensive battery to me would be the A123 batteries that Bill Dube had thought about bringing to our market. The nice thing about a pair of 680's is that you can easily put them on a maintenance cycle where you replace one of them every one or two years during annual and you will probably never have a down aircraft due to a battery problem (leaving the master switch on doesn't count). AGM's are essentially a deep cycle battery that can put out a lot of amps and also sit for months without losing any charge (again, that always on clock doesn't count). In my case the always on BATT bus is only drawing from one of the two batteries so even if the always on stuff like clock or trickle charge to EFIS internal batteries would happen to kill one of them, the remaining 680 should have enough to get me started. I also have the ability to isolate a battery in an alternator failure to supply nothing but my Lightspeed III. Swapping one of these batteries every other annual, or even every annual, at $100USD isn't that major of an expense to me and I can always use the old batteries in the lawnmower, computer UPS, car, etc. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:57 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Chargers ...... and batteries Which causes me to ask why is everybody putting really expensive batteries in their planes??? Linn Miller John wrote: > Been using Battery Tenders on my Odyssey 680s for several years now with > no problems. > > It was recommended in Aviation Consumer as well as Light Plane Maintenance. > > grumpy > N184JM > > do not archive > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:37 AM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers That seems to be the truth behind the marketing fluff. The "special" Odyssey chargers are no different from a multipurpose charger with an AGM mode. The main thing being that the AGM's are charged at 14.6 volts optimally. I also think that it's a must to have the desulphate capability to get the most life out of your battery, especially if you are regularly charging/discharging as in when you are playing with avionics. I would guess the Schumacher has it but can't tell for sure. Here's the link to the 12248: http://www.batteryminders.com/batterycharger/catalog/BatteryMINDer-12-Volt-2-4-or-8-Amp-Charger-Maintainer-Desulf-p-16133.html You can see the charging profiles under the "More Info" tab and in the instructions. There is a wealth of info in the instruction manual even if you don't use their chargers. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:24 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Chargers I watched the discussion on AeroElectric and read lots of things at other places about charging my Odyssey PC925, and spent a bunch of time reading before I bought a charger. Michael's right, that 12248 would eb a great way to go, and it's supposely got a great voltage curve for charging the Odyssey. What I did for myself though was a little different. I got a larger charger, that costs a bit more. I had been looking for Odyssey specific chargers, and wanted to make sure I did the best I could to charge at the right voltage. There is an Odyssey labeled charger that looks exactly like the Schumacher Speed Charge 1200A, which WalMart also sells. The difference I think is that the Odyssey doesn't have the variety of charging profiles. I got one off Ebay really really cheap, and got one at WalMart too, so now I use them at home and at the hangar. Here is a link: http://store.schumachermart.com/sc-1200a.html A few weeks ago I got fired up to verify that this was really the same, so I sent Schumacher an email asking if they had the same charge curve, and they said they were the same. I'm assuming I'd use AGM mode, so that's what I've been using. It's more expensive of a charger than you have to have, but it can charge other batteries too. I plug mine in sometimes if I have a big trip coming up, and want to ensure I've got a perfect charge, and I charge it during the winter when I don't fly as often. In the summer though, I generally don't charge it. I suppose I connect the charger maybe 10 times a year. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > I'm using the BatteryMinder 12248 for my Odyssey batteries. There was > a write-up in one of the mags a few months back comparing different > chargers and this one looked to be the best. It will charge any style > lead acid battery and also desulphates. They will say on their site > that you should get their "special" charger for Odyssey batteries but it > only has a single profile in it for Odyssey AGM batteries. > > > > I spent a bunch of time looking at the information on the "special" > charger vs. the 12248 which will charge flooded, AGM, and gel batteries > and could not find a difference in the Odyssey vs. the AGM profiles that > made it worthwhile. I also run the Odyssey in my motorcycle and ATV but > I wanted the options and I have been very happy with it. > > > > Michael > > > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Dawson-Townsend,Timothy > *Sent:* Thursday, September 24, 2009 11:26 AM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Chargers > > > > What are folks following for a battery-charging philosophy? I am using > Odyssey PC680s (who isn't?), and was wondering if folks are trickle > charging all the time when you're in the hangar, only when not expecting > to fly for a while, or only when it's winter, etc. > > > > Please share your thoughts. > > > TDT > > > > Tim Dawson-Townsend > > Aurora Flight Sciences > > tdt@aurora.aero > > 617-500-4812 (office) > > 617-905-4800 (mobile) > > > > * * > > * * > > ; - The RV10-List Email Forhref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.=============== > > < Same great content also available via the Web Forums! > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/con > > * * > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:04 AM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers It's a pretty easy mod to use a pair of 680's in the stock location. Sev eral of us have done it and you can still use a single contactor if you wan t. Michael [cid:image001.jpg@01CA3DC1.161FDD90] -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers No to the 680s without mod; too wide; also probably need additional master contactor to use either or both batteries. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGann, Ron Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:44 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers --> I have posted previously on poor cranking performance. I have had an issue with slow cranking ever since first start. My battery failed completely tw o weeks ago. I firmly believe my original (Concorde) battery was stuffed fro m the start and never really held a full charge - would not buy another. Hav e not been able to get a PC925 locally yet, so used a Dekka sealed gel cell a s a temp measure. Same size as the Concorde with 380CCA. Could not believe how quickly the prop spun with a decent battery. When finalising my avionics integration, I used a 20Amp 13.2VDC power suppl y in parallel with the battery to prevent constant discharge. I need to do some more research, but it would not surprise me if this contributed to the failure of the battery by overcharging it. BTW, is it possible to fit two 680s in the standard tray without modification? Cheers Ron VH-XRM, flying in Oz -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Friday, 25 September 2009 3:44 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Chargers I only put a charge on when I'm working on avionics or something without th e engine running. Every once in a while, if the plane has been sitting for a while, I'll throw a charger on it just to make sure it is up to cranking. Never had a problem. I use the Concord standard battery that Van's makes the tray for. do not archive Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On Sep 24, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Ande Boyer wrote: > Here's a noob question for you guys (I'm in the "prebuild/ > investigation" phase of my RV-10 ;-).... > > It sounds like you guys have a battery charger as standard equipment. > Why is this? Does the battery that goes in the RV-10 not hold a > charge? Or is there some kind of current leak? > > I've got a Warrior atm and we have no problem going weeks w/o running > it and it always cranks up just fine. > > Just wondering.....I've only been on this list for about 3 days and > have already learned so much. > > Thanks, > Ande Boyer > Huntsville, AL > > > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Dawson-Townsend,Timothy > > wrote: > What are folks following for a battery-charging philosophy? I am > using Odyssey PC680s (who isn't?), and was wondering if folks are > trickle charging all the time when you're in the hangar, only when not > expecting to fly for a while, or only when it's winter, etc. > > > Please share your thoughts. > > > TDT > > > > Tim Dawson-Townsend > > Aurora Flight Sciences > > tdt@aurora.aero > > 617-500-4812 (office) > > 617-905-4800 (mobile) > > > > > get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > ttp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > -- > "Pilots are a rare kind of human. They leave the ordinary surface of > the world, to purify their soul in the sky, and they come down to > earth, only after receiving the communion of the infinite." - Jos=E9 > Maria Velasco Ibarra > > > > DISCLAIMER:---------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and previous e-mail messages attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain proprietary or copyright material or information that is subject to legal professional privilege. They are for the use of the intended recipient only .. Any unauthorised viewing, use, disclosure, copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance on, this message is strictly prohibited. No part may be reproduced, adapted or transmitted without the written permission of the owner. If you have received this transmission in error, o r are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify the sender by return email, delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system, and destroy any printed copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient should not be deemed a waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does not warrant or represent that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail messages attached are error or virus free. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:43 AM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move You can get a similar cooling shroud for the pump on the 360/540 series fro m here.... http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/fuelpumps.php Michael From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:35 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move Here is another picture of a fuel pump on M7-235 Maule I changed earlier th is year. big red hose for airconditioning of fuel pump. Patrick Thyssen --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Patrick Thyssen wrote: From: Patrick Thyssen Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move One thing I have just thought about and correct me if I'm wrong. From the f uel pump to the fuel pressure sending unit is up hill or above the fuel pum p. This being said if you get air in your hoses going to your pressure tran sducer from being hot [vapor] then you could have a problem as to what it is reporting. By having a compression of air instead of solid liquid. Lets hear from the engineers. Patrick Thyssen Engine pickled again!!! for new instrument panel Oh how I love OP --- On Thu, 9/24/09, McGann, Ron wrote: From: McGann, Ron Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move au> Only 40 hours but same experience as Marcus. Only irregluarity comes when the boost pump is engaged but the totaliser function always appears to reflect remaining fuel to within a gallon or so. Ron McGann Head of Engineering Security Solutions & Services Aerospace Tel: +61 2 9562 3530 | Mob: +61 (0) 466 655 393 | Fax: +61 2 9562 2100 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper Sent: Friday, 25 September 2009 2:45 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move I have about 430 hours with the transducer in the plans location. No real issues although I do notice a slight FF drop when I turn the boost pump off. So far it has been very accurate and consistent. Marcus 40286 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Leonard Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:05 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interesting to get feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally suggested. Are any of you having any trouble with the transducer in that location? How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate readings or other problems? -------- Nick Leonard RV-10 (40015) Finish Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706 DISCLAIMER:---------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and previous e-mail messa ges attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain proprietary o r copyright material or information that is subject to legal professional privilege. Th ey are for the use of the intended recipient only. Any unauthorised viewing, use, dis closure, copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance on, this messa ge is strictly prohibited. No part may be reproduced, adapted or transmitted with out the written permission of the owner. If you have received this transmission in error, or are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify the sender by re turn email, delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system, and destroy any printed copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient should not be d eemed a waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does not warrant or represent that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail messages attac hed are error or virus free. --------------------------------------------------------------------k" href ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matroni="_bl ank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co -Matt Dralle, List blank" href="http://www.matronics.co m/contribution">http://www.matronics.============ ====== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:17 AM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers It appears that the best price is: http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200326706 _200326706?cm_mmc=housefile-_-recd-_-phone-_-conf -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:52 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers --> That seems to be the truth behind the marketing fluff. The "special" Odyssey chargers are no different from a multipurpose charger with an AGM mode. The main thing being that the AGM's are charged at 14.6 volts optimally. I also think that it's a must to have the desulphate capability to get the most life out of your battery, especially if you are regularly charging/discharging as in when you are playing with avionics. I would guess the Schumacher has it but can't tell for sure. Here's the link to the 12248: http://www.batteryminders.com/batterycharger/catalog/BatteryMINDer-12-Volt-2 -4-or-8-Amp-Charger-Maintainer-Desulf-p-16133.html You can see the charging profiles under the "More Info" tab and in the instructions. There is a wealth of info in the instruction manual even if you don't use their chargers. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:24 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Chargers I watched the discussion on AeroElectric and read lots of things at other places about charging my Odyssey PC925, and spent a bunch of time reading before I bought a charger. Michael's right, that 12248 would eb a great way to go, and it's supposely got a great voltage curve for charging the Odyssey. What I did for myself though was a little different. I got a larger charger, that costs a bit more. I had been looking for Odyssey specific chargers, and wanted to make sure I did the best I could to charge at the right voltage. There is an Odyssey labeled charger that looks exactly like the Schumacher Speed Charge 1200A, which WalMart also sells. The difference I think is that the Odyssey doesn't have the variety of charging profiles. I got one off Ebay really really cheap, and got one at WalMart too, so now I use them at home and at the hangar. Here is a link: http://store.schumachermart.com/sc-1200a.html A few weeks ago I got fired up to verify that this was really the same, so I sent Schumacher an email asking if they had the same charge curve, and they said they were the same. I'm assuming I'd use AGM mode, so that's what I've been using. It's more expensive of a charger than you have to have, but it can charge other batteries too. I plug mine in sometimes if I have a big trip coming up, and want to ensure I've got a perfect charge, and I charge it during the winter when I don't fly as often. In the summer though, I generally don't charge it. I suppose I connect the charger maybe 10 times a year. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > I'm using the BatteryMinder 12248 for my Odyssey batteries. There > was a write-up in one of the mags a few months back comparing > different chargers and this one looked to be the best. It will charge > any style lead acid battery and also desulphates. They will say on > their site that you should get their "special" charger for Odyssey > batteries but it only has a single profile in it for Odyssey AGM batteries. > > > > I spent a bunch of time looking at the information on the "special" > charger vs. the 12248 which will charge flooded, AGM, and gel > batteries and could not find a difference in the Odyssey vs. the AGM > profiles that made it worthwhile. I also run the Odyssey in my > motorcycle and ATV but I wanted the options and I have been very happy with it. > > > > Michael > > > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Dawson-Townsend,Timothy > *Sent:* Thursday, September 24, 2009 11:26 AM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Chargers > > > > What are folks following for a battery-charging philosophy? I am > using Odyssey PC680s (who isn't?), and was wondering if folks are > trickle charging all the time when you're in the hangar, only when not > expecting to fly for a while, or only when it's winter, etc. > > > > Please share your thoughts. > > > TDT > > > > Tim Dawson-Townsend > > Aurora Flight Sciences > > tdt@aurora.aero > > 617-500-4812 (office) > > 617-905-4800 (mobile) > > > > * * > > * * > > ; - The RV10-List Email Forhref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics. =============== > > < Same great content also available via the Web Forums! > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhttp://w > ww.matronics.com/con > > * * > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:32 AM PST US From: "Chris Hukill" Subject: RV10-List: Door hinges A heads up on the door hinges. If you read the plans carefully, you'll find a confusing error. They show the left door hinges with the proper parts call out. When the plans say to repeat the steps for the right door, if you where to use the same parts call out, they would be reversed. It was obvious that something was wrong, but I wasn't sure which door was wrong. I called Scott at Vans and he went out to the company's RV10 and took pictures and emailed me them. The call out for the left door is correct, that is the lower part of the hinge should face the center of the door, as the plans show. The right door should just mirror image the left, although the part numbers are reversed. Better safe than sorry, so I always check when something doesn't compute. Thanks to Scott for his prompt help, and not laughing at me for requiring clarification for something as probably obvious to most. Chris Hukill Trying to close the door on all this fiberglass work! ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:03 AM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers here's another alternative _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 7:18 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers It's a pretty easy mod to use a pair of 680's in the stock location. Several of us have done it and you can still use a single contactor if you want. Michael FP29052007A000H3.jpg -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers No to the 680s without mod; too wide; also probably need additional master contactor to use either or both batteries. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGann, Ron Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:44 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers --> I have posted previously on poor cranking performance. I have had an issue with slow cranking ever since first start. My battery failed completely two weeks ago. I firmly believe my original (Concorde) battery was stuffed from the start and never really held a full charge - would not buy another. Have not been able to get a PC925 locally yet, so used a Dekka sealed gel cell as a temp measure. Same size as the Concorde with 380CCA. Could not believe how quickly the prop spun with a decent battery. When finalising my avionics integration, I used a 20Amp 13.2VDC power supply in parallel with the battery to prevent constant discharge. I need to do some more research, but it would not surprise me if this contributed to the failure of the battery by overcharging it. BTW, is it possible to fit two 680s in the standard tray without modification? Cheers Ron VH-XRM, flying in Oz -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Friday, 25 September 2009 3:44 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Chargers I only put a charge on when I'm working on avionics or something without the engine running. Every once in a while, if the plane has been sitting for a while, I'll throw a charger on it just to make sure it is up to cranking. Never had a problem. I use the Concord standard battery that Van's makes the tray for. do not archive Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On Sep 24, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Ande Boyer wrote: > Here's a noob question for you guys (I'm in the "prebuild/ > investigation" phase of my RV-10 ;-).... > > It sounds like you guys have a battery charger as standard equipment. > Why is this? Does the battery that goes in the RV-10 not hold a > charge? Or is there some kind of current leak? > > I've got a Warrior atm and we have no problem going weeks w/o running > it and it always cranks up just fine. > > Just wondering.....I've only been on this list for about 3 days and > have already learned so much. > > Thanks, > Ande Boyer > Huntsville, AL > > > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Dawson-Townsend,Timothy > > wrote: > What are folks following for a battery-charging philosophy? I am > using Odyssey PC680s (who isn't?), and was wondering if folks are > trickle charging all the time when you're in the hangar, only when not > expecting to fly for a while, or only when it's winter, etc. > > > Please share your thoughts. > > > TDT > > > > Tim Dawson-Townsend > > Aurora Flight Sciences > > tdt@aurora.aero > > 617-500-4812 (office) > > 617-905-4800 (mobile) > > > > > get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > ttp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > -- > "Pilots are a rare kind of human. They leave the ordinary surface of > the world, to purify their soul in the sky, and they come down to > earth, only after receiving the communion of the infinite." - Jos=E9 > Maria Velasco Ibarra > > > > DISCLAIMER:-------------------------------------------------------------- --- ---------- This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and previous e-mail messages attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain proprietary or copyright material or information that is subject to legal professional privilege. They are for the use of the intended recipient only. Any unauthorised viewing, use, disclosure, copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance on, this message is strictly prohibited. No part may be reproduced, adapted or transmitted without the written permission of the owner. If you have received this transmission in error, or are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify the sender by return email, delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system, and destroy any printed copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient should not be deemed a waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does not warrant or represent that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail messages attached are error or virus free. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- ---------- =================== ail Forum - browse ription, Chat, FAQ, > or?RV10-List =================== ATRONICS WEB FORUMS - Forums! =================== ntribution Web Site - /o:p> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ution =================== ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:52 AM PST US From: "Pascal" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door hinges have fun getting the doors to fit now! From: Chris Hukill Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 8:27 AM Subject: RV10-List: Door hinges A heads up on the door hinges. If you read the plans carefully, you'll find a confusing error. They show the left door hinges with the proper parts call out. When the plans say to repeat the steps for the right door, if you where to use the same parts call out, they would be reversed. It was obvious that something was wrong, but I wasn't sure which door was wrong. I called Scott at Vans and he went out to the company's RV10 and took pictures and emailed me them. The call out for the left door is correct, that is the lower part of the hinge should face the center of the door, as the plans show. The right door should just mirror image the left, although the part numbers are reversed. Better safe than sorry, so I always check when something doesn't compute. Thanks to Scott for his prompt help, and not laughing at me for requiring clarification for something as probably obvious to most. Chris Hukill Trying to close the door on all this fiberglass work! ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:05 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move I've got one of those. Haven't installed it yet, but I have it. Some day if I get real bored or ambitious, I'll put it on and report back. Maybe years from now. I know if I ever pull the engine I'll install it, but not sure if I will otherwise. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > You can get a similar cooling shroud for the pump on the 360/540 series > from here. > > > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/fuelpumps.php > > > > Michael > > > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick Thyssen > *Sent:* Friday, September 25, 2009 2:35 AM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move > > > > Here is another picture of a fuel pump on M7-235 Maule I changed earlier > this year. big red hose for airconditioning of fuel pump. > Patrick Thyssen > > --- On *Thu, 9/24/09, Patrick Thyssen //* wrote: > > > From: Patrick Thyssen > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 10:17 PM > > One thing I have just thought about and correct me if I'm wrong. From > the fuel pump to the fuel pressure sending unit is up hill or above the > fuel pump. This being said if you get air in your hoses going to your > pressure transducer from being hot [vapor] then you could have a > problem as to what it is reporting. > By having a compression of air instead of solid liquid. > Lets hear from the engineers. > > Patrick Thyssen > Engine pickled again!!! for new instrument panel > Oh how I love OP > > --- On *Thu, 9/24/09, McGann, Ron //* wrote: > > > From: McGann, Ron > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 5:28 PM > > > > Only 40 hours but same experience as Marcus. Only irregluarity comes > when the boost pump is engaged but the totaliser function always appears > to reflect remaining fuel to within a gallon or so. > > Ron McGann > > Head of Engineering > Security Solutions & Services > Aerospace > > Tel: +61 2 9562 3530 | Mob: +61 (0) 466 655 393 | Fax: +61 2 9562 2100 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper > Sent: Friday, 25 September 2009 2:45 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move > > > I have about 430 hours with the transducer in the plans location. No > real > issues although I do notice a slight FF drop when I turn the boost pump > off. > So far it has been very accurate and consistent. > > Marcus > 40286 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Leonard > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:05 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move > > > As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interesting to get > feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally suggested. > Are > any of you having any trouble with the transducer in that location? > > How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate readings or > other > problems? > > -------- > Nick Leonard > RV-10 (40015) Finish > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DISCLAIMER:--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and previous e-mail > messages > attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain > proprietary or copyright > material or information that is subject to legal professional privilege. > They are for > the use of the intended recipient only. Any unauthorised viewing, use, > disclosure, > copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance on, this > message is > strictly prohibited. No part may be reproduced, adapted or transmitted > without the > written permission of the owner. If you have received this transmission > in error, or > are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify the sender by > return email, > delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system, and destroy > any printed > copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient should not > be deemed a > waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does not warrant > or represent > that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail messages > attached are > error or virus free. > --------------------------------------------------------------------k" > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matroni="_blank" > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co > -Matt Dralle, List blank" > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.================== > > > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:13 AM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Chargers And other than lawyer-speak ..... does anyone have the faintest idea why it's "Not for use with 12V aircraft battery.????? Linn do not archive David McNeill wrote: > > It appears that the best price is: > > http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200326706 > _200326706?cm_mmc=housefile-_-recd-_-phone-_-conf > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:20 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Chargers I was checking the Schumacher manual today on the SC-1200A and it does show that it has a desulphate mode. Doesn't look like it's used as part of a normal charge cycle though. I'm not totally sure of the details on it. I did remember that the one that is often mentioned on Aeroelectric is the one referred to in these 2 clippings from 2008 that i'll repost: --------------------- "Yeah, I saw those a couple of days ago at WallyWorld. I've got one of the older versions and did extensive testing that showed this little guy was about 2x faster than the Battery-Minder/Battery-Tender wall-wart crowd (0.8A versus 1.5A recharge) and equally as "smart" with at less than 2/3 the price. My favorite of the small guys. Bob . . . " "New number is SEM-1562A old # was WM-1562A" ---------------------- Tim RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > > > That seems to be the truth behind the marketing fluff. The "special" > Odyssey chargers are no different from a multipurpose charger with an > AGM mode. The main thing being that the AGM's are charged at 14.6 > volts optimally. > > I also think that it's a must to have the desulphate capability to > get the most life out of your battery, especially if you are > regularly charging/discharging as in when you are playing with > avionics. I would guess the Schumacher has it but can't tell for > sure. Here's the link to the 12248: > > http://www.batteryminders.com/batterycharger/catalog/BatteryMINDer-12-Volt-2-4-or-8-Amp-Charger-Maintainer-Desulf-p-16133.html > > > You can see the charging profiles under the "More Info" tab and in > the instructions. There is a wealth of info in the instruction > manual even if you don't use their chargers. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:24 PM To: > rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Chargers > > > I watched the discussion on AeroElectric and read lots of things at > other places about charging my Odyssey PC925, and spent a bunch of > time reading before I bought a charger. Michael's right, that 12248 > would eb a great way to go, and it's supposely got a great voltage > curve for charging the Odyssey. > > What I did for myself though was a little different. I got a larger > charger, that costs a bit more. I had been looking for Odyssey > specific chargers, and wanted to make sure I did the best I could to > charge at the right voltage. There is an Odyssey labeled charger > that looks exactly like the Schumacher Speed Charge 1200A, which > WalMart also sells. The difference I think is that the Odyssey > doesn't have the variety of charging profiles. I got one off Ebay > really really cheap, and got one at WalMart too, so now I use them at > home and at the hangar. > > Here is a link: > > http://store.schumachermart.com/sc-1200a.html > > A few weeks ago I got fired up to verify that this was really the > same, so I sent Schumacher an email asking if they had the same > charge curve, and they said they were the same. I'm assuming I'd use > AGM mode, so that's what I've been using. It's more expensive of a > charger than you have to have, but it can charge other batteries too. > > > I plug mine in sometimes if I have a big trip coming up, and want to > ensure I've got a perfect charge, and I charge it during the winter > when I don't fly as often. In the summer though, I generally don't > charge it. I suppose I connect the charger maybe 10 times a year. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD > > > > RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: >> I'm using the BatteryMinder 12248 for my Odyssey batteries. There >> was a write-up in one of the mags a few months back comparing >> different chargers and this one looked to be the best. It will >> charge any style lead acid battery and also desulphates. They will >> say on their site that you should get their "special" charger for >> Odyssey batteries but it only has a single profile in it for >> Odyssey AGM batteries. >> >> >> >> I spent a bunch of time looking at the information on the "special" >> charger vs. the 12248 which will charge flooded, AGM, and gel >> batteries and could not find a difference in the Odyssey vs. the >> AGM profiles that made it worthwhile. I also run the Odyssey in my >> motorcycle and ATV but I wanted the options and I have been very >> happy with it. >> >> >> >> Michael >> >> >> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of >> *Dawson-Townsend,Timothy *Sent:* Thursday, September 24, 2009 11:26 >> AM *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com *Subject:* RV10-List: Chargers >> >> >> >> What are folks following for a battery-charging philosophy? I am >> using Odyssey PC680s (who isn't?), and was wondering if folks are >> trickle charging all the time when you're in the hangar, only when >> not expecting to fly for a while, or only when it's winter, etc. >> >> >> >> Please share your thoughts. >> >> >> TDT >> >> >> >> Tim Dawson-Townsend >> >> Aurora Flight Sciences >> >> tdt@aurora.aero >> >> 617-500-4812 (office) >> >> 617-905-4800 (mobile) >> >> >> >> * * >> >> * * >> >> ; - The RV10-List Email >> Forhref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.=============== >> >> >> < Same great content also available via the Web Forums! >> >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/con >> >> >> * * >> >> * >> >> >> * > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:17 AM PST US From: "Les Kearney" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door hinges Hi Save yourself some grief and fit you doors with the seals on. The geometry changes after the seals are in place. Cheers Les #40643 - Living in f/g hell _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal Sent: September-25-09 10:11 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door hinges have fun getting the doors to fit now! From: Chris Hukill Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 8:27 AM Subject: RV10-List: Door hinges A heads up on the door hinges. If you read the plans carefully, you'll find a confusing error. They show the left door hinges with the proper parts call out. When the plans say to repeat the steps for the right door, if you where to use the same parts call out, they would be reversed. It was obvious that something was wrong, but I wasn't sure which door was wrong. I called Scott at Vans and he went out to the company's RV10 and took pictures and emailed me them. The call out for the left door is correct, that is the lower part of the hinge should face the center of the door, as the plans show. The right door should just mirror image the left, although the part numbers are reversed. Better safe than sorry, so I always check when something doesn't compute. Thanks to Scott for his prompt help, and not laughing at me for requiring clarification for something as probably obvious to most. Chris Hukill Trying to close the door on all this fiberglass work! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:44 AM PST US From: "Les Kearney" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door hinges Hi Again For clarity - I mean after the hinges are installed and you are working on fitting the door so that the gaps etc are correct. ..L _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney Sent: September-25-09 10:40 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Door hinges Hi Save yourself some grief and fit you doors with the seals on. The geometry changes after the seals are in place. Cheers Les #40643 - Living in f/g hell _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal Sent: September-25-09 10:11 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door hinges have fun getting the doors to fit now! From: Chris Hukill Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 8:27 AM Subject: RV10-List: Door hinges A heads up on the door hinges. If you read the plans carefully, you'll find a confusing error. They show the left door hinges with the proper parts call out. When the plans say to repeat the steps for the right door, if you where to use the same parts call out, they would be reversed. It was obvious that something was wrong, but I wasn't sure which door was wrong. I called Scott at Vans and he went out to the company's RV10 and took pictures and emailed me them. The call out for the left door is correct, that is the lower part of the hinge should face the center of the door, as the plans show. The right door should just mirror image the left, although the part numbers are reversed. Better safe than sorry, so I always check when something doesn't compute. Thanks to Scott for his prompt help, and not laughing at me for requiring clarification for something as probably obvious to most. Chris Hukill Trying to close the door on all this fiberglass work! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:29 AM PST US From: Jeff Carpenter Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door hinges Right there with you Les... Do Not Archive Jeff Carpenter 40304 On Sep 25, 2009, at 9:40 AM, Les Kearney wrote: > Hi > > Save yourself some grief and fit you doors with the seals on. The > geometry changes after the seals are in place. > > Cheers > > Les > #40643 ' Living in f/g hell > > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > ] On Behalf OfPascal > Sent: September-25-09 10:11 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door hinges > > have fun getting the doors to fit now! > > From: Chris Hukill > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 8:27 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Door hinges > > A heads up on the door hinges. > If you read the plans carefully, you'll find a confusing error. They > show the left door hinges with the proper parts call out. When the > plans say to repeat the steps for the right door, if you where to > use the same parts call out, they would be reversed. It was obvious > that something was wrong, but I wasn't sure which door was wrong. I > called Scott at Vans and he went out to the company's RV10 and took > pictures and emailed me them. The call out for the left door is > correct, that is the lower part of the hinge should face the center > of the door, as the plans show. The right door should just mirror > image the left, although the part numbers are reversed. Better safe > than sorry, so I always check when something doesn't compute. Thanks > to Scott for his prompt help, and not laughing at me for requiring > clarification for something as probably obvious to most. > Chris Hukill > Trying to close the door on all this fiberglass work! > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?RV10-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/c > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:25 AM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers Not TSOed or Certified? Seriously most of the sealed batteries used for experimental aviation purposes are AGM. Also BM have one they call for aviation purposes; price is about $140 versus $100 at northern tools. Same 12248 and same specs. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:30 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Chargers --> And other than lawyer-speak ..... does anyone have the faintest idea why it's "Not for use with 12V aircraft battery.????? Linn do not archive David McNeill wrote: > > It appears that the best price is: > > http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200 > 326706 _200326706?cm_mmc=housefile-_-recd-_-phone-_-conf > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:46 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Door hinges From: "Bob Turner" I too looked very carefully at this section, before deciding the instructions are correct. You'll notice they refer to the hinges as "left" and "right", not fore and aft. The "left" and "right" are correct for both doors (as you face them); obviously, "fore" and "aft" are reversed as you move to the right hand door. -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264968#264968 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:15 AM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RV10-List: Chargers If using the BM 12248, each battery on board will have to be maintained separately, since it appears to need to sense the voltage of the battery. The easiest way it seems to do this is establish a DC receptacles that uses ring terminals across the battery posts. Then alternate as required different days/weeks to desulphate and maintain each on board battery. For those with constant draw items perhaps the charger should be left connected that battery. Receptacles are $7 each at Radio shack, DC plug also $7. The plug will have to be connected to the ring accessory cord that is included with the charger. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:43 AM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RV10-List: 12248 Check the following for differences. It appears that the aviation and Odyssey versions are designed to be idiot proof. http://www.batteryminders.com/batterycharger/catalog/Aviation-Specific-Maint enance-Battery-Charger-De-Sulfators-orderby0-p-1-c-249.html ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:43 AM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers Actually, the manual for that depicts how to connect it to multiple batte ries at once. Shouldn't be a problem. I believe the way 'lectric Bob has explained it in the past is that the charger will sense the combined voltag e but the resistance to charge will vary by the charge level so the battery needing the charge will take more than the battery with a full charge. Michael From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:40 PM Subject: RV10-List: Chargers If using the BM 12248, each battery on board will have to be maintained sep arately, since it appears to need to sense the voltage of the battery. The easiest way it seems to do this is establish a DC receptacles that uses rin g terminals across the battery posts. Then alternate as required different days/weeks to desulphate and maintain each on board battery. For those with constant draw items perhaps the charger should be left connected that batt ery. Receptacles are $7 each at Radio shack, DC plug also $7. The plug will have to be connected to the ring accessory cord that is included with the charger. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:09 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Flap positioning system From: Kelly McMullen For those who have the flap pre-select system: I am at stage to decide whether I want this system or not. My question is whether it can be adjusted to select reflex, trail, 1/2 and full flaps? Or can you only get 10, 20, 30 degrees? Kelly 40866 QB arriving ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:54 AM PST US From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system That is exactly what you get - reflex, 0, =BD and full. Bob N442PM ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:39 PM Subject: RV10-List: Flap positioning system For those who have the flap pre-select system: I am at stage to decide whet her I want this system or not. My question is whether it can be adjusted to select reflex, trail, 1/2 and full flaps? Or can you only get 10, 20, 30 d egrees? Kelly 40866 QB arriving ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:49 PM PST US From: Rick Sked Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap positioning system If I did it again I think I would rather have more control over exactly how much down=C2-flap I could use past zero. At times full is too much and 1 /2 is not enough but I'm just being picky I suppose. I do like the zero set ting for take off vs. the reflex or -3 degree setting. I've found the diffe rence being at zero the aircraft just flies off without much back pressure at all with an overall increase in climb performance. =C2-In the =C2-re flex=C2-position =C2-you need a bit more pressure to rotate and take of f.....that extra one inch of pull is wearing me out! The system works great though. Rick Sked N246RS Flying naked Painting the pants and fairings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Condrey (US SSA)" Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:42:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system That is exactly what you get =93 reflex, 0, =C2=BD and full. Bob N442PM From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:39 PM Subject: RV10-List: Flap positioning system For those who have the flap pre-select system: I am at stage to decide whet her I want this system or not. My question is whether it can be adjusted to select reflex, trail, 1/2 and full flaps? Or can you only get 10, 20, 30 d egrees? Kelly 40866 QB arriving =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http ======== === === http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matron === === == ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:05:03 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap positioning system I see no reason for any more than these 4 settings, but by cutting a couple more notches you could add a couple more steps if you really felt it necessary. The way it flies though, I see no need for any more than what it has now. I think, but have not measured, that it's reflex, 0, 15, 25 Tim Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote: > That is exactly what you get reflex, 0, and full. > > > > Bob > > N442PM > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Kelly McMullen > *Sent:* Friday, September 25, 2009 1:39 PM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Flap positioning system > > > > For those who have the flap pre-select system: I am at stage to decide > whether I want this system or not. My question is whether it can be > adjusted to select reflex, trail, 1/2 and full flaps? Or can you only > get 10, 20, 30 degrees? > Kelly > 40866 > QB arriving > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:32 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers Multiple batteries at once are fine provided you don't want to leave the hook up in place and all connected to a single charge point. I have examined my twin 680 setup which is wired in parallel to use either or both in starting. If I wire them to the 12248 for multiple charge then the leads to the second battery must have diodes to prevent "charge leveling" when the charger is not connected ; hence the charger will not sense the voltage of the second battery when connected. _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:37 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers Actually, the manual for that depicts how to connect it to multiple batteries at once. Shouldn't be a problem. I believe the way 'lectric Bob has explained it in the past is that the charger will sense the combined voltage but the resistance to charge will vary by the charge level so the battery needing the charge will take more than the battery with a full charge. Michael From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:40 PM Subject: RV10-List: Chargers If using the BM 12248, each battery on board will have to be maintained separately, since it appears to need to sense the voltage of the battery. The easiest way it seems to do this is establish a DC receptacles that uses ring terminals across the battery posts. Then alternate as required different days/weeks to desulphate and maintain each on board battery. For those with constant draw items perhaps the charger should be left connected that battery. Receptacles are $7 each at Radio shack, DC plug also $7. The plug will have to be connected to the ring accessory cord that is included with the charger. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:08 PM PST US From: "John Cumins" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system Rick Sounds like you need to life weights then hehehe, worn our all of us still pounding rivits are worn out, LOL I will look you up next time I am in LAS Fly safe John G. Cumins President JC'S Interactive Systems 2499 B1 Martin Rd Fairfield Ca 94533 707-425-7100 707-425-7576 Fax Your Total Technology Solution Provider From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:02 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap positioning system If I did it again I think I would rather have more control over exactly how much down flap I could use past zero. At times full is too much and 1/2 is not enough but I'm just being picky I suppose. I do like the zero setting for take off vs. the reflex or -3 degree setting. I've found the difference being at zero the aircraft just flies off without much back pressure at all with an overall increase in climb performance. In the reflex position you need a bit more pressure to rotate and take off.....that extra one inch of pull is wearing me out! The system works great though. Rick Sked N246RS Flying naked Painting the pants and fairings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Condrey (US SSA)" Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:42:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system That is exactly what you get =93 reflex, 0, =C2=BD and full. Bob N442PM _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:39 PM Subject: RV10-List: Flap positioning system For those who have the flap pre-select system: I am at stage to decide whether I want this system or not. My question is whether it can be adjusted to select reflex, trail, 1/2 and full flaps? Or can you only get 10, 20, 30 degrees? Kelly 40866 QB arriving http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap positioning system From: Kelly McMullen Thanks everyone...exactly what I needed to know. On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Tim Olson wrote: > > I see no reason for any more than these 4 settings, > but by cutting a couple more notches you could > add a couple more steps if you really felt it necessary. > The way it flies though, I see no need for any more > than what it has now. I think, but have not > measured, that it's reflex, 0, 15, 25 > > Tim > > > Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote: > >> That is exactly what you get ' reflex, 0, =BD and full. >> >> >> Bob >> >> N442PM >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:19 PM PST US From: "Rene Felker" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system Ok for the people that don=99t have the FPS or have not used it yet. One point of order. You can put your flaps at any setting from -3 degrees to full (?25 degrees). All you have to do is go down to the preset (anyone), then hit the up switch until it is at the desired setting. Now, after 100 hours I have not needed to do that because my empty weight CG is further aft than the Vans aircraft. But when I was doing my transition training, I was taught to put the flaps down, then bring them up just a little, or else you run out of elevator trim for landing Rene' Felker RV-10 N423CF Flying 801-721-6080 From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:02 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap positioning system If I did it again I think I would rather have more control over exactly how much down flap I could use past zero. At times full is too much and 1/2 is not enough but I'm just being picky I suppose. I do like the zero setting for take off vs. the reflex or -3 degree setting. I've found the difference being at zero the aircraft just flies off without much back pressure at all with an overall increase in climb performance. In the reflex position you need a bit more pressure to rotate and take off.....that extra one inch of pull is wearing me out! The system works great though. Rick Sked N246RS Flying naked Painting the pants and fairings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Condrey (US SSA)" Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:42:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system That is exactly what you get =93 reflex, 0, =C2=BD and full. Bob N442PM _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:39 PM Subject: RV10-List: Flap positioning system For those who have the flap pre-select system: I am at stage to decide whether I want this system or not. My question is whether it can be adjusted to select reflex, trail, 1/2 and full flaps? Or can you only get 10, 20, 30 degrees? Kelly 40866 QB arriving http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:51 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap positioning system Yes, you can stop the flaps anywhere mid travel by centering the switch. Just yesterday I used it to give more partial flaps so I could take photos of the wife in the cherokee. you'd be amazed at how hard it is to fly side-by-side with a plane that doesn't WANT to stay that slow. Yes, the RV-10 flies nicely at slow speeds, but it cools better at higher speeds, so to try to maintain 90kts for 30 minutes, you have to pull out some tricks. Partial flaps when needed aren't tough, even with a 4 stop positioner. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD do not archive Rene Felker wrote: > Ok for the people that dont have the FPS or have not used it yet. One > point of order. You can put your flaps at any setting from -3 degrees > to full (?25 degrees). All you have to do is go down to the preset > (anyone), then hit the up switch until it is at the desired setting. > > > > Now, after 100 hours I have not needed to do that because my empty > weight CG is further aft than the Vans aircraft. But when I was doing > my transition training, I was taught to put the flaps down, then bring > them up just a little, or else you run out of elevator trim for landing > > > > Rene' Felker > > RV-10 N423CF Flying > > 801-721-6080 > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Sked > *Sent:* Friday, September 25, 2009 1:02 PM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Flap positioning system > > > > If I did it again I think I would rather have more control over exactly > how much down flap I could use past zero. At times full is too much and > 1/2 is not enough but I'm just being picky I suppose. I do like the zero > setting for take off vs. the reflex or -3 degree setting. I've found the > difference being at zero the aircraft just flies off without much back > pressure at all with an overall increase in climb performance. In > the reflex position you need a bit more pressure to rotate and take > off.....that extra one inch of pull is wearing me out! The system works > great though. > > > > Rick Sked > > N246RS > > Flying naked > > Painting the pants and fairings > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Condrey (US SSA)" > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:42:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system > > That is exactly what you get reflex, 0, and full. > > > > Bob > > N442PM > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Kelly McMullen > *Sent:* Friday, September 25, 2009 1:39 PM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Flap positioning system > > > > For those who have the flap pre-select system: I am at stage to decide > whether I want this system or not. My question is whether it can be > adjusted to select reflex, trail, 1/2 and full flaps? Or can you only > get 10, 20, 30 degrees? > Kelly > 40866 > QB arriving > > * * > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > *get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > *p://forums.matronics.com* > > *blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > * * > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:52 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers From: "Robin Marks" Here is an alternative alternative... http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/aeroxO2.htm The set up here is a primary battery that we ingeniously labeled #1 and a Back Up Battery labeled... you guessed it #2. Under power we only charge #1 and #2 receives a trickle charge from #1. On my panel I have two covered switches labeled Batt 1+2 & Batt 2(e). In general I use #1 exclusively for starting and all normal operations. In that case both toggles are in the off position and the Master/Batt pulls from Batt #1 exclusively. If it's extra cold or I have goofed up and left the master on or drained #1 for any reason I can switch to Batt 1+2 to start the plane with both batteries or I can switch Batt 2(e) to start the plane with the second battery only. The Batt #2(e) is designated as the electrical source to drive the Essential Buss only in case of an emergency where I only need my Essential avionics (PFD, Comm 1, Nav 1, Cappuccino Machine, etc). Additionally there is a 3rd battery integrated in my backup Dynon 100 incase my Cappuccino Machine blows the entire electrical system. So far so good. I think we will rotate #1 & #2 every conditional inspection. http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/avionics.htm Robin From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 8:57 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers here's another alternative ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 7:18 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers It's a pretty easy mod to use a pair of 680's in the stock location. Several of us have done it and you can still use a single contactor if you want. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers No to the 680s without mod; too wide; also probably need additional master contactor to use either or both batteries. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGann, Ron Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:44 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers --> I have posted previously on poor cranking performance. I have had an issue with slow cranking ever since first start. My battery failed completely two weeks ago. I firmly believe my original (Concorde) battery was stuffed from the start and never really held a full charge - would not buy another. Have not been able to get a PC925 locally yet, so used a Dekka sealed gel cell as a temp measure. Same size as the Concorde with 380CCA. Could not believe how quickly the prop spun with a decent battery. When finalising my avionics integration, I used a 20Amp 13.2VDC power supply in parallel with the battery to prevent constant discharge. I need to do some more research, but it would not surprise me if this contributed to the failure of the battery by overcharging it. BTW, is it possible to fit two 680s in the standard tray without modification? Cheers Ron VH-XRM, flying in Oz -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Friday, 25 September 2009 3:44 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Chargers I only put a charge on when I'm working on avionics or something without the engine running. Every once in a while, if the plane has been sitting for a while, I'll throw a charger on it just to make sure it is up to cranking. Never had a problem. I use the Concord standard battery that Van's makes the tray for. do not archive Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On Sep 24, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Ande Boyer wrote: > Here's a noob question for you guys (I'm in the "prebuild/ > investigation" phase of my RV-10 ;-).... > > It sounds like you guys have a battery charger as standard equipment. > Why is this? Does the battery that goes in the RV-10 not hold a > charge? Or is there some kind of current leak? > > I've got a Warrior atm and we have no problem going weeks w/o running > it and it always cranks up just fine. > > Just wondering.....I've only been on this list for about 3 days and > have already learned so much. > > Thanks, > Ande Boyer > Huntsville, AL > > > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Dawson-Townsend,Timothy > > wrote: > What are folks following for a battery-charging philosophy? I am > using Odyssey PC680s (who isn't?), and was wondering if folks are > trickle charging all the time when you're in the hangar, only when not > expecting to fly for a while, or only when it's winter, etc. > > > Please share your thoughts. > > > TDT > > > > Tim Dawson-Townsend > > Aurora Flight Sciences > > tdt@aurora.aero > > 617-500-4812 (office) > > 617-905-4800 (mobile) > > > > > get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > ttp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > -- > "Pilots are a rare kind of human. They leave the ordinary surface of > the world, to purify their soul in the sky, and they come down to > earth, only after receiving the communion of the infinite." - Jos=E9 > Maria Velasco Ibarra > > > > DISCLAIMER:-------------------------------------------------------------- --- ---------- This e-mail transmission and any documents, files and previous e-mail messages attached to it are private and confidential. They may contain proprietary or copyright material or information that is subject to legal professional privilege. They are for the use of the intended recipient only. Any unauthorised viewing, use, disclosure, copying, alteration, storage or distribution of, or reliance on, this message is strictly prohibited. No part may be reproduced, adapted or transmitted without the written permission of the owner. If you have received this transmission in error, or are not an authorised recipient, please immediately notify the sender by return email, delete this message and all copies from your e-mail system, and destroy any printed copies. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient should not be deemed a waiver of any privilege or protection. Thales Australia does not warrant or represent that this e-mail or any documents, files and previous e-mail messages attached are error or virus free. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- ---------- =================== ail Forum - browse ription, Chat, FAQ, > or?RV10-List =================== ATRONICS WEB FORUMS - Forums! =================== ntribution Web Site - /o:p> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ution =================== ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:22 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RV10-List: chargers I went to the Battery Minder manufacturer site and looked at the available tech manuals. There are about 4 aviation specific options for the battery models. These are idiot proof. The Odyssey specific model always uses the 8A option and battery type selection is fixed. Therefore making a mistake charging an Odyssey battery is not possible. Buy the 12248 standard model and press the correct buttons; its cheaper. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:51 PM PST US From: "Brian" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Chargers Aviation consumer recommends the Battery Minder (VDC); not the Battery Tender (Deltran): http://www.batteryminders.com/batterycharger/press_room/battery-chargers-vdc -wins-in-a-walk.pdf From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Miller John Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Chargers Been using Battery Tenders on my Odyssey 680s for several years now with no problems. It was recommended in Aviation Consumer as well as Light Plane Maintenance. grumpy N184JM do not archive On Sep 24, 2009, at 8:03 PM, Brian wrote: Avoid using the Battery Tender on sealed aircraft batteries. It chewed up two Concorde's in less than a year before I wised up (afterwards I also switched to the PC925). I would recommend going with a charger that was specifically designed for that type of battery: http://www.batteryminders.com/specials.php Brian RV-10 N104BS Nashville, TN From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don McDonald Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:54 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Chargers A very smart friend of mone turned me on to a charger called a "Battery Minder". Look it up online. Cost around $50. Not only trickle charges, but sends out pulses that keep sulfides from forming. The friends 210 has not replaced his battery in over 10 years... whereas before they seemed to last 3 or 4 years. I use them on cars stored, motorcycles, boats, and my plane. Don McDonald Plane parked.... on the boat......... wishing I was flying! --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Linn Walters wrote: From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Chargers > I leave my birds on the trickle charge almost all of the time ..... exception is when I'm in a hurry to lock up or just plain forget. Linn Dawson-Townsend,Timothy wrote: > What are folks following for a battery-charging philosophy? I am using Odyssey PC680s (who isn't?), and was wondering if folks are trickle charging all the time when you're in the hangar, only when not expecting to fly for a while, or only when it's winter, etc. > > > Please share your thoughts. > > > TDT > > > Tim Dawson-Townsend > > Aurora Flight Sciences > > tdt@aurora.aero > > > 617-500-4812 (office) > > 617-905-4800 (mobile) > > Navigator Photoshare, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV10-List Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://w ww.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ========== =================================== yle="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List =================================== e; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com =================================== color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== = ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:59 PM PST US From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system During transition training Alex D. demonstrated that it actually takes abou t 200-300 feet more roll on takeoff if in reflex instead of 0. Bob ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:02 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap positioning system If I did it again I think I would rather have more control over exactly how much down flap I could use past zero. At times full is too much and 1/2 is not enough but I'm just being picky I suppose. I do like the zero setting for take off vs. the reflex or -3 degree setting. I've found the difference being at zero the aircraft just flies off without much back pressure at al l with an overall increase in climb performance. In the reflex position you need a bit more pressure to rotate and take off.....that extra one inch of pull is wearing me out! The system works great though. Rick Sked N246RS Flying naked Painting the pants and fairings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Condrey (US SSA)" Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:42:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system That is exactly what you get - reflex, 0, =BD and full. Bob N442PM ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:39 PM Subject: RV10-List: Flap positioning system For those who have the flap pre-select system: I am at stage to decide whet her I want this system or not. My question is whether it can be adjusted to select reflex, trail, 1/2 and full flaps? Or can you only get 10, 20, 30 d egrees? Kelly 40866 QB arriving http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:50 PM PST US From: Subject: RV10-List: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions Did my BFR this week in the 6A and spent some ground time with a G1000 system, thus renewing my enthusiasm for installing a G 900 in the 10. I know as a group we are fortunate to now have several 900 drivers out there - Robin, Gary, and more! For those of us still contemplating panel choices would you guys please let us know what the fees ( costs in subscriptions, XM, etc) are in keeping this 900 going and up to date. Also, what is the mininum cost one may need to look forword to in VFR vrs IFR. Details would sure be helpful like: "Charts and plates are $XXX, XM weather is $XXX, traffic is $XXX, Other is $XXX - all per month. My annual fees are about $XXX". Do you have NAV-WRX etc? Appreciate any input from you guys! Thanks so much. Rich RV-6A 1000 hours RV-10 Finishing kit - gear & wheel fairings ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:08 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions From: "Robin Marks" Rich, I am just going through the update process / potential nightmare. I can't say enough good things about how the GH900X performs especially with the SVT (synthetic terrain), TIS Traffic (where available) and XM WX (plus Audio). First the Fees. If you want to be completely up to date all the time here are the fees. I didn't write down the individual fees as the annual fees are 2-3 times the price for 10-13 times the data. Data is provided by two (2) different companies through Three (3) different delivery systems (of course). DataBase Costs: Jeppesen 800-553-7750/303-799-9090 Airport/Nav/Freq/Waypoint Data etc = $410.00 full US (annual) (partial US is about $300) Garmin Data (annual): Safe Taxi $195 Obstacles $195 Flight Charts $395 ~$800.00 Total Terrain $150 Occasional Random Updates ~1.5-2 years Assuming random & occasional Terrain updates the total annual DB update is $410 + $800 = $1,210.00/year. Depending on the type of flying you do you may be able to save by postponing Safe Taxi which is a tremendous feature but I am unsure how critical these small changes are over the years relative to the costs. PLEASE no flaming me, just a suggestion to save a few $ for some that have regular commutes. Obviously the two different companies are Jeppesen & Garmin and the Download process is simple from Jeppesen and simple for Garmin but from two different places "MyGarmin.com" for technical manuals, System Updates etc... and Fly.Garmin.com for purchasing & downloading Taxi/Obstacles/Charts. Unfortunately there are some issues I am having with Garmin that border on disturbing. The knowledgeable technical support is near non-existent. When you call Garmin they answer with minimal hold times. GREAT! You explain your issues completely and then they tell you they can't answer your question and transfer you to a Field Service Representative that SHOULD be versed in the G900X. You explain one more time your issue and they hem and haw and tell you that you should really speak with the G900X expert Tim. They transfer you to Tim whom I suspect it the most overworked person at Garmin and with any luck he will answer your questions but he is rarely available on the phone and will usually email you back. Now Tim is excellent, knowledgeable and very friendly but he seems to be the only person qualified to help. Let me give you a recent example of some frustrating Garmin processes. Initially my Garmin would not speak with my ($10,000) Sorcerer AP for flying a heading. You could set & adjust the heading on the AP and it would fly but not set or change it on the G900X and have it speak to the AP to fly that heading. I spoke with Tim via email and after some research we discovered that a recent System Software version addressed the issue and all I had to do was upgrade the System Software (here after SS = System Software) I had 006-00718-04 and needed to upgrade to 006-00718-05. Problem solved... Right... Well not exactly. How the %(*&^@$! do you update the SS? Obviously you look in the 500 page Pilots Guide. Fortunately it's in PDF form so after reading it front to back again and looking for the procedure I contacted Tim who told me I would find the procedure in the Installation Manual. Cool... All relevant documents are housed at MyGarmin.com so I downloaded the Installation Manual (hereafter IM) and read all 500 pages with not a word on installing the SS. Geezzzz. I called Tim again and he emailed me that the instructions were in section 15.1.2. Ohhhh that explains it, my IM ends at 14.something.something. At this point I don't really feel I need to control the Heading from the Heading knob on the Garmin. But I press on. I ask Tim why I don't automatically have the latest IM in MyGarmin as that is the place Garmin automatically updates all owners documents so everyone is current. Apparently they have a few glitches on the auto document population process. How much is this G900X again? I get the latest IM and go straight to section 15.1.2 and start reading the SS install process. The actual loading of the SS SEEMS pretty straight forward with the exception of the 3rd paragraph where you are instructed to clear all User Settings. Sounds innocent enough, User Settings (hereafter U-S). The U-S are all your saved flight plans, all your customized PFD/MFD settings and all your calibrations. WHAT? All your calibrations??? That includes fuel, trim, flap etc... That has to be wrong. There is no way Garmin would have you clear those w/o a way to save and reinstall these settings. As part of the G900X purchase included is a Certified G900X technician to calibrate and approve the install at your location. As I was one of the first Tim and another tech spent 2 days getting my system up and running and had to come back one more time as they didn't have a tool to test some avionics required. That is a 3 day out of town visit to approve the system and now they want you to wipe out all the settings for a simple system upgrade. Now granted the System Upgrades are fantastic as they keep adding features like CHT/EGT data logging, moving items around based on user suggestions etc... but no way can I wipe out the calibrations. There must be some mistake but I am still waiting for an answer before I wipe out all those settings. Did I mention I am still waiting? As a user interface systems designer all these processes sure seem unfriendly compared to how they could have been designed with what amounts to a system like we have on some of our smart phones but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (picture John Belushi) this is more DOS like for some unthinkable reason. Game of Pong anyone? Since this issue is not resolved I am reserving judgment on the data/calibrations loss problem till I have final word but as you can tell from my experience so far simple answers are not readily available. My one BIG piece of security is that this is a Garmin product and I am sure they will be around vs. spending a bucket full of $ and having it go all OP on me. You know me.... Mr. Glass Half Full... One more thing. I know Tim has found a way to keep his Chelton up to date for a fraction of what the Garmin/Jeppersen people are spending. Including purchasing a lifetime deal on some updates that is impossible to beat. I have more to say but I am heading to the airport for a night flight back to SBP. Robin -----Original Message ----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of karolamy@roadrunner.com Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:41 PM Subject: RV10-List: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions Did my BFR this week in the 6A and spent some ground time with a G1000 system, thus renewing my enthusiasm for installing a G 900 in the 10. I know as a group we are fortunate to now have several 900 drivers out there - Robin, Gary, and more! For those of us still contemplating panel choices would you guys please let us know what the fees ( costs in subscriptions, XM, etc) are in keeping this 900 going and up to date. Also, what is the mininum cost one may need to look forword to in VFR vrs IFR. Details would sure be helpful like: "Charts and plates are $XXX, XM weather is $XXX, traffic is $XXX, Other is $XXX - all per month. My annual fees are about $XXX". Do you have NAV-WRX etc? Appreciate any input from you guys! Thanks so much. Rich RV-6A 1000 hours RV-10 Finishing kit - gear & wheel fairings ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:44 PM PST US From: "Dave Leikam" Subject: Re: RV10-List: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions Keep blazin' the trails Robin... Dave Leikam RV-10 #40496 N89DA Muskego, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Marks" Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 8:16 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions > > Rich, > I am just going through the update process / potential > nightmare. I can't say enough good things about how the GH900X performs > especially with the SVT (synthetic terrain), TIS Traffic (where > available) and XM WX (plus Audio). > First the Fees. If you want to be completely up to date all the > time here are the fees. I didn't write down the individual fees as the > annual fees are 2-3 times the price for 10-13 times the data. Data is > provided by two (2) different companies through Three (3) different > delivery systems (of course). > > DataBase Costs: > > Jeppesen 800-553-7750/303-799-9090 > Airport/Nav/Freq/Waypoint Data etc = $410.00 full US (annual) (partial > US is about $300) > > Garmin Data (annual): > Safe Taxi $195 > Obstacles $195 > Flight Charts $395 > ~$800.00 Total > > Terrain $150 Occasional Random Updates ~1.5-2 years > > Assuming random & occasional Terrain updates the total annual DB update > is $410 + $800 = $1,210.00/year. Depending on the type of flying you do > you may be able to save by postponing Safe Taxi which is a tremendous > feature but I am unsure how critical these small changes are over the > years relative to the costs. PLEASE no flaming me, just a suggestion to > save a few $ for some that have regular commutes. > > Obviously the two different companies are Jeppesen & Garmin and the > Download process is simple from Jeppesen and simple for Garmin but from > two different places "MyGarmin.com" for technical manuals, System > Updates etc... and Fly.Garmin.com for purchasing & downloading > Taxi/Obstacles/Charts. > > Unfortunately there are some issues I am having with Garmin that border > on disturbing. The knowledgeable technical support is near non-existent. > When you call Garmin they answer with minimal hold times. GREAT! You > explain your issues completely and then they tell you they can't answer > your question and transfer you to a Field Service Representative that > SHOULD be versed in the G900X. You explain one more time your issue and > they hem and haw and tell you that you should really speak with the > G900X expert Tim. They transfer you to Tim whom I suspect it the most > overworked person at Garmin and with any luck he will answer your > questions but he is rarely available on the phone and will usually email > you back. Now Tim is excellent, knowledgeable and very friendly but he > seems to be the only person qualified to help. Let me give you a recent > example of some frustrating Garmin processes. > > Initially my Garmin would not speak with my ($10,000) Sorcerer AP for > flying a heading. You could set & adjust the heading on the AP and it > would fly but not set or change it on the G900X and have it speak to the > AP to fly that heading. I spoke with Tim via email and after some > research we discovered that a recent System Software version addressed > the issue and all I had to do was upgrade the System Software (here > after SS = System Software) I had 006-00718-04 and needed to upgrade to > 006-00718-05. Problem solved... Right... Well not exactly. How the > %(*&^@$! do you update the SS? Obviously you look in the 500 page Pilots > Guide. Fortunately it's in PDF form so after reading it front to back > again and looking for the procedure I contacted Tim who told me I would > find the procedure in the Installation Manual. Cool... All relevant > documents are housed at MyGarmin.com so I downloaded the Installation > Manual (hereafter IM) and read all 500 pages with not a word on > installing the SS. Geezzzz. I called Tim again and he emailed me that > the instructions were in section 15.1.2. Ohhhh that explains it, my IM > ends at 14.something.something. At this point I don't really feel I need > to control the Heading from the Heading knob on the Garmin. But I press > on. I ask Tim why I don't automatically have the latest IM in MyGarmin > as that is the place Garmin automatically updates all owners documents > so everyone is current. Apparently they have a few glitches on the auto > document population process. How much is this G900X again? I get the > latest IM and go straight to section 15.1.2 and start reading the SS > install process. The actual loading of the SS SEEMS pretty straight > forward with the exception of the 3rd paragraph where you are instructed > to clear all User Settings. Sounds innocent enough, User Settings > (hereafter U-S). The U-S are all your saved flight plans, all your > customized PFD/MFD settings and all your calibrations. WHAT? All your > calibrations??? That includes fuel, trim, flap etc... That has to be > wrong. There is no way Garmin would have you clear those w/o a way to > save and reinstall these settings. As part of the G900X purchase > included is a Certified G900X technician to calibrate and approve the > install at your location. As I was one of the first Tim and another tech > spent 2 days getting my system up and running and had to come back one > more time as they didn't have a tool to test some avionics required. > That is a 3 day out of town visit to approve the system and now they > want you to wipe out all the settings for a simple system upgrade. > Now granted the System Upgrades are fantastic as they keep adding > features like CHT/EGT data logging, moving items around based on user > suggestions etc... but no way can I wipe out the calibrations. There > must be some mistake but I am still waiting for an answer before I wipe > out all those settings. Did I mention I am still waiting? > > As a user interface systems designer all these processes sure seem > unfriendly compared to how they could have been designed with what > amounts to a system like we have on some of our smart phones but > NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (picture John Belushi) this is more DOS like for some > unthinkable reason. Game of Pong anyone? > > Since this issue is not resolved I am reserving judgment on the > data/calibrations loss problem till I have final word but as you can > tell from my experience so far simple answers are not readily available. > > > My one BIG piece of security is that this is a Garmin product and I am > sure they will be around vs. spending a bucket full of $ and having it > go all OP on me. You know me.... Mr. Glass Half Full... > > One more thing. I know Tim has found a way to keep his Chelton up to > date for a fraction of what the Garmin/Jeppersen people are spending. > Including purchasing a lifetime deal on some updates that is impossible > to beat. > > I have more to say but I am heading to the airport for a night flight > back to SBP. > > Robin > > > -----Original Message ----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > karolamy@roadrunner.com > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:41 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions > > > Did my BFR this week in the 6A and spent some ground time with a G1000 > system, thus renewing my enthusiasm for installing a G 900 in the 10. I > > know as a group we are fortunate to now have several 900 drivers out > there - > Robin, Gary, and more! For those of us still contemplating panel > choices > would you guys please let us know what the fees ( costs in > subscriptions, > XM, etc) are in keeping this 900 going and up to date. Also, what is > the > mininum cost one may need to look forword to in VFR vrs IFR. Details > would > sure be helpful like: "Charts and plates are $XXX, XM weather is $XXX, > > traffic is $XXX, Other is $XXX - all per month. My annual fees are > about > $XXX". Do you have NAV-WRX etc? > Appreciate any input from you guys! Thanks so much. > > Rich > RV-6A 1000 hours > RV-10 Finishing kit - gear & wheel fairings > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:25 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions One clarification on the updates that Robin is referring to that I do for the Chelton... I pay about $500/yr I think for the updates for my GNS-480 and my Chelton systems combined. This is NavData, and obstructions. From time to time I guess they have Terrain updates but as terrain rarely changes, I've never actually had one. I don't have smart taxi, or charts on the system. The lifetime deal that he talked about was actually a one-time promo that Voyager ran for the first 100 customers to reply to an email offer.....a lifetime of EFB chart subscription for $600. So, for charts, I use Voyager, which has Geo-referenced WAC/TAC/SECTIONAL/IFR(low and high) charts and geo-referenced approach plates, all integrated to GPS to plot your position...and I use it on an older LE1600 with a SSD. For me, that works perfectly for what I need for approaches. The chelton contains most of the info I need, but usually you still have to look up the minimums for the approach, so after a quick look at the plate, I can usually just fly it without the tablet if I choose to. In fact, now that I've grown attached at the hip to my iphone with Foreflight, I lately have just been looking at the approach plate on that, for all of my practice...saving the tablet for those real IFR times. The Voyager deal was a 1-time thing, so for most people you'll have an annual subscription just like I used to for a couple years....but for all the charts you get, there's not any more effective way to carry all the charts and have all that function. Voyager even has HITS. They have a new promo going too, where you can buy a whole pre-loaded tablet for something like $1000 that comes with the software and everything, and a 3 month sub. It looks to be a great way to start it. The only caveat is, no matter what you do for a PC in the plane, definitely do it with a SSD hard drive. Far superior for what we do. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD Robin Marks wrote: > > Rich, > I am just going through the update process / potential > nightmare. I can't say enough good things about how the GH900X performs > especially with the SVT (synthetic terrain), TIS Traffic (where > available) and XM WX (plus Audio). > First the Fees. If you want to be completely up to date all the > time here are the fees. I didn't write down the individual fees as the > annual fees are 2-3 times the price for 10-13 times the data. Data is > provided by two (2) different companies through Three (3) different > delivery systems (of course). > > DataBase Costs: > > Jeppesen 800-553-7750/303-799-9090 > Airport/Nav/Freq/Waypoint Data etc = $410.00 full US (annual) (partial > US is about $300) > > Garmin Data (annual): > Safe Taxi $195 > Obstacles $195 > Flight Charts $395 > ~$800.00 Total > > Terrain $150 Occasional Random Updates ~1.5-2 years > > Assuming random & occasional Terrain updates the total annual DB update > is $410 + $800 = $1,210.00/year. Depending on the type of flying you do > you may be able to save by postponing Safe Taxi which is a tremendous > feature but I am unsure how critical these small changes are over the > years relative to the costs. PLEASE no flaming me, just a suggestion to > save a few $ for some that have regular commutes. > > Obviously the two different companies are Jeppesen & Garmin and the > Download process is simple from Jeppesen and simple for Garmin but from > two different places "MyGarmin.com" for technical manuals, System > Updates etc... and Fly.Garmin.com for purchasing & downloading > Taxi/Obstacles/Charts. > > Unfortunately there are some issues I am having with Garmin that border > on disturbing. The knowledgeable technical support is near non-existent. > When you call Garmin they answer with minimal hold times. GREAT! You > explain your issues completely and then they tell you they can't answer > your question and transfer you to a Field Service Representative that > SHOULD be versed in the G900X. You explain one more time your issue and > they hem and haw and tell you that you should really speak with the > G900X expert Tim. They transfer you to Tim whom I suspect it the most > overworked person at Garmin and with any luck he will answer your > questions but he is rarely available on the phone and will usually email > you back. Now Tim is excellent, knowledgeable and very friendly but he > seems to be the only person qualified to help. Let me give you a recent > example of some frustrating Garmin processes. > > Initially my Garmin would not speak with my ($10,000) Sorcerer AP for > flying a heading. You could set & adjust the heading on the AP and it > would fly but not set or change it on the G900X and have it speak to the > AP to fly that heading. I spoke with Tim via email and after some > research we discovered that a recent System Software version addressed > the issue and all I had to do was upgrade the System Software (here > after SS = System Software) I had 006-00718-04 and needed to upgrade to > 006-00718-05. Problem solved... Right... Well not exactly. How the > %(*&^@$! do you update the SS? Obviously you look in the 500 page Pilots > Guide. Fortunately it's in PDF form so after reading it front to back > again and looking for the procedure I contacted Tim who told me I would > find the procedure in the Installation Manual. Cool... All relevant > documents are housed at MyGarmin.com so I downloaded the Installation > Manual (hereafter IM) and read all 500 pages with not a word on > installing the SS. Geezzzz. I called Tim again and he emailed me that > the instructions were in section 15.1.2. Ohhhh that explains it, my IM > ends at 14.something.something. At this point I don't really feel I need > to control the Heading from the Heading knob on the Garmin. But I press > on. I ask Tim why I don't automatically have the latest IM in MyGarmin > as that is the place Garmin automatically updates all owners documents > so everyone is current. Apparently they have a few glitches on the auto > document population process. How much is this G900X again? I get the > latest IM and go straight to section 15.1.2 and start reading the SS > install process. The actual loading of the SS SEEMS pretty straight > forward with the exception of the 3rd paragraph where you are instructed > to clear all User Settings. Sounds innocent enough, User Settings > (hereafter U-S). The U-S are all your saved flight plans, all your > customized PFD/MFD settings and all your calibrations. WHAT? All your > calibrations??? That includes fuel, trim, flap etc... That has to be > wrong. There is no way Garmin would have you clear those w/o a way to > save and reinstall these settings. As part of the G900X purchase > included is a Certified G900X technician to calibrate and approve the > install at your location. As I was one of the first Tim and another tech > spent 2 days getting my system up and running and had to come back one > more time as they didn't have a tool to test some avionics required. > That is a 3 day out of town visit to approve the system and now they > want you to wipe out all the settings for a simple system upgrade. > Now granted the System Upgrades are fantastic as they keep adding > features like CHT/EGT data logging, moving items around based on user > suggestions etc... but no way can I wipe out the calibrations. There > must be some mistake but I am still waiting for an answer before I wipe > out all those settings. Did I mention I am still waiting? > > As a user interface systems designer all these processes sure seem > unfriendly compared to how they could have been designed with what > amounts to a system like we have on some of our smart phones but > NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (picture John Belushi) this is more DOS like for some > unthinkable reason. Game of Pong anyone? > > Since this issue is not resolved I am reserving judgment on the > data/calibrations loss problem till I have final word but as you can > tell from my experience so far simple answers are not readily available. > > > My one BIG piece of security is that this is a Garmin product and I am > sure they will be around vs. spending a bucket full of $ and having it > go all OP on me. You know me.... Mr. Glass Half Full... > > One more thing. I know Tim has found a way to keep his Chelton up to > date for a fraction of what the Garmin/Jeppersen people are spending. > Including purchasing a lifetime deal on some updates that is impossible > to beat. > > I have more to say but I am heading to the airport for a night flight > back to SBP. > > Robin > > > -----Original Message ----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > karolamy@roadrunner.com > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:41 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: G-900 fees, dues, subscriptions > > > Did my BFR this week in the 6A and spent some ground time with a G1000 > system, thus renewing my enthusiasm for installing a G 900 in the 10. I > > know as a group we are fortunate to now have several 900 drivers out > there - > Robin, Gary, and more! For those of us still contemplating panel > choices > would you guys please let us know what the fees ( costs in > subscriptions, > XM, etc) are in keeping this 900 going and up to date. Also, what is > the > mininum cost one may need to look forword to in VFR vrs IFR. Details > would > sure be helpful like: "Charts and plates are $XXX, XM weather is $XXX, > > traffic is $XXX, Other is $XXX - all per month. My annual fees are > about > $XXX". Do you have NAV-WRX etc? > Appreciate any input from you guys! Thanks so much. > > Rich > RV-6A 1000 hours > RV-10 Finishing kit - gear & wheel fairings > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:26 PM PST US From: John Gonzalez Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system If you take off with the flaps in reflex and you have a problem that makes you need to go slow as in engine failure=2C you will tip stall your wing in stead of allowing the inner portion of the wing to stall first. This would not be a good thing. At least with sailplane design and other aircraft=2C tip stalling the wing is a bad thing. JOhn G From: bob.condrey@baesystems.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system During transition training Alex D. demonstrated that it actually takes abou t 200-300 feet more roll on takeoff if in reflex instead of 0. Bob From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked Sent: Friday=2C September 25=2C 2009 2:02 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flap positioning system If I did it again I think I would rather have more control over exactly how much down flap I could use past zero. At times full is too much and 1/2 is not enough but I'm just being picky I suppose. I do like the zero setting for take off vs. the reflex or -3 degree setting. I've found the difference being at zero the aircraft just flies off without much back pressure at al l with an overall increase in climb performance. In the reflex position you need a bit more pressure to rotate and take off.....that extra one inch of pull is wearing me out! The system works great though. Rick Sked N246RS Flying naked Painting the pants and fairings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Condrey (US SSA)" Sent: Friday=2C September 25=2C 2009 11:42:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacif ic Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flap positioning system That is exactly what you get ' reflex=2C 0=2C =BD and full. Bob N442PM From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Friday=2C September 25=2C 2009 1:39 PM Subject: RV10-List: Flap positioning system For those who have the flap pre-select system: I am at stage to decide whet her I want this system or not. My question is whether it can be adjusted to select reflex=2C trail=2C 1/2 and full flaps? Or can you only get 10=2C 20 =2C 30 degrees? Kelly 40866 QB arriving http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matr onics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution get=_blank>http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listp://forums.matronics.comblank>http://www.mat ronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp: //forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.