Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:24 AM - Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Richard Bibb)
2. 05:38 AM - Re: Re: new item for the rv-10 back seats (Jesse Saint)
3. 05:42 AM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Kelly McMullen)
4. 05:52 AM - Re: Re: new item for the rv-10 back seats (Kelly McMullen)
5. 06:23 AM - Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? (Patrick Pulis)
6. 06:24 AM - Re: Re: new item for the rv-10 back seats (Patrick Pulis)
7. 06:50 AM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Danny Riggs)
8. 06:50 AM - Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? (Jesse Saint)
9. 07:02 AM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Richard Bibb)
10. 07:04 AM - Re: James plenum question (Lenny Iszak)
11. 07:52 AM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Linn Walters)
12. 08:27 AM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Richard Bibb)
13. 08:38 AM - Re: Copperstate RV10 nest (Robin Marks)
14. 08:38 AM - Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? (David McNeill)
15. 08:52 AM - FWF bag contents breakdown (Pascal)
16. 09:03 AM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Danny Riggs)
17. 09:12 AM - Re: FWF bag contents breakdown (tsts4)
18. 09:22 AM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (John Cox)
19. 09:23 AM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Nick Leonard)
20. 09:41 AM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (John Cox)
21. 09:41 AM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Carl Froehlich)
22. 09:41 AM - Re: Copperstate RV10 nest (John Cox)
23. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: FWF bag contents breakdown (Pascal)
24. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: James plenum question (Robin Marks)
25. 10:43 AM - Re: Copperstate RV10 nest (William Souza)
26. 10:44 AM - Re: new item for the rv-10 back seats (Marcus Cooper)
27. 11:45 AM - door (David McNeill)
28. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Danny Riggs)
29. 11:48 AM - Re: Copperstate RV10 nest (John Cox)
30. 12:06 PM - Re: door (Perry, Phil)
31. 12:21 PM - Re: door (Danny Riggs)
32. 01:00 PM - Re: Re: FireWall Engine Side Paint? (John Cumins)
33. 01:03 PM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Deems Davis)
34. 01:06 PM - Re: James plenum question (Deems Davis)
35. 01:29 PM - Re: new item for the rv-10 back seats (John Cumins)
36. 01:46 PM - Re: door (David McNeill)
37. 01:57 PM - Re: door (lbgjb10)
38. 01:57 PM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Ben Westfall)
39. 02:01 PM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Linn Walters)
40. 02:05 PM - FW: door (David McNeill)
41. 02:51 PM - Re: FW: door (Dave Saylor)
42. 02:58 PM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Deems Davis)
43. 02:59 PM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Nick Leonard)
44. 03:07 PM - Re: door (Jesse Saint)
45. 03:18 PM - Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? (Patrick Pulis)
46. 03:22 PM - Re: door (Les Kearney)
47. 03:31 PM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Linn Walters)
48. 03:43 PM - Re: door (John Cumins)
49. 03:46 PM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Lenny Iszak)
50. 03:49 PM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (gary)
51. 03:50 PM - Emailing: 2__2_[1] (David McNeill)
52. 03:51 PM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (John Cumins)
53. 03:54 PM - Re: door (gary)
54. 04:05 PM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Richard Bibb)
55. 04:06 PM - Re: James plenum question (Lenny Iszak)
56. 04:18 PM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Tim Olson)
57. 04:22 PM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (John Cumins)
58. 04:23 PM - Re: door (Chris)
59. 04:37 PM - Re: door (zackrv8)
60. 04:48 PM - Re: Re: James plenum question (Deems Davis)
61. 04:49 PM - Re: door (Roxanne and Mike Lefever)
62. 04:50 PM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Deems Davis)
63. 05:02 PM - Re: James plenum question (Lenny Iszak)
64. 05:09 PM - Re: door (Miller John)
65. 05:13 PM - Re: Re: James plenum question (Rene Felker)
66. 05:38 PM - Re: door (ricksked@embarqmail.com)
67. 06:00 PM - Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? (AirMike)
68. 06:10 PM - Re: door (Les Kearney)
69. 06:52 PM - Re: door (Miller John)
70. 06:54 PM - Screw length for cowl closeout pins (Phil White)
71. 07:10 PM - Re: Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? (Patrick Pulis)
72. 07:37 PM - Re: door (Jesse Saint)
73. 08:12 PM - Re: door (Les Kearney)
74. 08:12 PM - Re: door (ricksked@embarqmail.com)
75. 08:12 PM - Re: door (Dave Saylor)
76. 08:17 PM - Re: door (David McNeill)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
In following the thread on the James Plenum and various others with cooling
problems I have been thinking about potential alternatives for my RV-10
setup (it's down the road as I'm just starting main fuselage).
For the aerodynamicists out there: How would a larger intake scoop that had
in internal split to feed intake air as well as oil cooler input work IYHO?
I'm thinking making the inlet a large affair that has a flow divider to send
air into the FI body and a separate path (via flex hose) to the Oil Cooler,
This allows the plenum to concentrate on supplying cooling air to the
cylinders without having any flow diverted to the oil cooler. Similar to
Robin Marks approach shown below but with the input combined into one input
"hole" in the cowling.
As an electrical engineer I should know better than to delve into the world
of fluid dynamics but I figure that is what the "experimental" designation
is all about.
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
_____
Note: Ram Oil Cooler inlet just below Pilots Side Inlet
DSC08657 [Desktop Resolution].JPG
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: new item for the rv-10 back seats |
We just discovered another "mod" on the way. I just hope Van's has
their 8-seat version available soon. We're going to fill it.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
Caution, my current aircraft has an oil cooler mounted on the lower cowling
,
not much lower than where Robin's inlet is located. Unfortunately, the
manufacturer did no testing of that location, and in a climb it is enough o
f
a low pressure area that flow can actually reverse, passing from cylinder
bottoms out the oil cooler. Not good, and most every example I know of runs
210-215 oil temps. The only solution is for my aircraft is to relocate the
oil cooler to the rear top of the engine baffling. I suppose what really
needs examining is whether the engine air outlet is large enough or could
benefit from cowl flaps. It is unfortunate that the prototypes didn't get
any testing in AZ or TX to optimize engine cooling.
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Richard Bibb <rbibb@tomet.net> wrote:
> In following the thread on the James Plenum and various others with
> cooling problems I have been thinking about potential alternatives for my
> RV-10 setup (it=92s down the road as I=92m just starting main fuselage).
>
>
> For the aerodynamicists out there: How would a larger intake scoop that
> had in internal split to feed intake air as well as oil cooler input work
> IYHO? I=92m thinking making the inlet a large affair that has a flow div
ider
> to send air into the FI body and a separate path (via flex hose) to the O
il
> Cooler, This allows the plenum to concentrate on supplying cooling air t
o
> the cylinders without having any flow diverted to the oil cooler. Simila
r
> to Robin Marks approach shown below but
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: new item for the rv-10 back seats |
Hmm, and I naively thought builders spent all their spare time
pounding rivets. Just design a fuselage "stretch" of about 20" in
front and behind the wing. That should allow another row of kid seats
without upsetting cg.
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
>
> We just discovered another "mod" on the way. I just hope Van's has their
> 8-seat version available soon. We're going to fill it.
>
> do not archive
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> Cell: 352-427-0285
> Fax: 815-377-3694
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
I am seeking some wise words of advice from the pioneers that have gone bef
ore me please, just to make sure that I've covered all my bases-before cl
osing the bottom skins.=0A=0ACould someone please tell me if there-are an
y prudent things that I should-consider prior to riveting on the bottom w
ing skins?=0A=0ATo date, I have routed all the wiring through conduits whic
h pass through the ribs; installed the pitot mast and plumbed the pitot lin
e; installed the pitot heater module; installed the roll servo and I've ass
embled the aileron trim mechanism.=0A=0AIs there anything that I may have f
orgotten to do please, you advice would be very much appreciated?=0A=0AKind
regards from down under.=0A=0APatrick Pulis=0A#40299-------
-- VH-XPP=0AAdelaide, South Australia-=0A=0A=0A ________________
__________________________________________________________________=0AGet mo
re done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail.=0ALearn more: http://au.overvi
ew.mail.yahoo.com/
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: new item for the rv-10 back seats |
Congratulations to you and your lovely lady Jesse.=0A=0AKind regards=0A=0AP
at=0A=0ADo Not Archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFro
m: Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASe
nt: Monday, 28 September, 2009 10:03:14 PM=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Re: ne
Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>=0A=0AWe just discovered another "mod" on t
he way.- I just hope Van's has their 8-seat version available soon.- We
're going to fill it.=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0AJesse Saint=0ASaint Aviation
, Inc.=0Ajesse@saintaviation.com=0ACell: 352-427-0285=0AFax: 815-377-3694
===============0A=0A=0A __________________
________________________________________________________________=0AGet more
done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail.=0ALearn more: http://au.overview
.mail.yahoo.com/
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
I have been considering the same problem on the -10 I'm building. So=2C eve
ry airshow I go to I look to see what other manufacturers have done. My fav
orite is the Navion that used a NACA duct plumbed down to the oil cooler. I
t came off the right side of the cowling. Simple and elegant.
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
From: apilot2@gmail.com
Caution=2C my current aircraft has an oil cooler mounted on the lower cowli
ng=2C not much lower than where Robin's inlet is located. Unfortunately=2C
the manufacturer did no testing of that location=2C and in a climb it is en
ough of a low pressure area that flow can actually reverse=2C passing from
cylinder bottoms out the oil cooler. Not good=2C and most every example I k
now of runs 210-215 oil temps. The only solution is for my aircraft is to r
elocate the oil cooler to the rear top of the engine baffling. I suppose wh
at really needs examining is whether the engine air outlet is large enough
or could benefit from cowl flaps. It is unfortunate that the prototypes did
n't get any testing in AZ or TX to optimize engine cooling.
On Mon=2C Sep 28=2C 2009 at 7:23 AM=2C Richard Bibb <rbibb@tomet.net> wrote
:
In following the thread on the James Plenum and various others with cooling
problems I have been thinking about potential alternatives for my RV-10 se
tup (it=92s down the road as I=92m just starting main fuselage).
For the aerodynamicists out there: How would a larger intake scoop that ha
d in internal split to feed intake air as well as oil cooler input work IYH
O? I=92m thinking making the inlet a large affair that has a flow divider
to send air into the FI body and a separate path (via flex hose) to the Oil
Cooler=2C This allows the plenum to concentrate on supplying cooling air
to the cylinders without having any flow diverted to the oil cooler. Simil
ar to Robin Marks approach shown below but
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.=0A
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tut
orial_QuickAdd_062009
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
Besides the fact that it may be a lot harder to rivet on the skin with
the servo in place, it sounds like you have it covered. For those who
are in the decision-making process, installing the roll servo in the
wing after it is closed up is not a difficult task. I can do it
laying on my back on a creeper (with the wing on the plane) in about
15 minutes.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:21 AM, Patrick Pulis wrote:
> I am seeking some wise words of advice from the pioneers that have
> gone before me please, just to make sure that I've covered all my
> bases before closing the bottom skins.
>
> Could someone please tell me if there are any prudent things that I
> should consider prior to riveting on the bottom wing skins?
>
> To date, I have routed all the wiring through conduits which pass
> through the ribs; installed the pitot mast and plumbed the pitot
> line; installed the pitot heater module; installed the roll servo
> and I've assembled the aileron trim mechanism.
>
> Is there anything that I may have forgotten to do please, you advice
> would be very much appreciated?
>
> Kind regards from down under.
>
> Patrick Pulis
> #40299 VH-XPP
> Adelaide, South Australia
>
> Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more.
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
Well I wasn't thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just deriving
the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock location but perhaps
modified mount to reflect change in air source geometry) from a combined
induction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is to eliminate the source of air for
the oil cooer from the rear of the baffles (whether inside a plenum or not)
as to increase cooling air for the cylinders. That creates the problem of
creating an air source for the cooler. Rather than create a separate inlet
I was thinking of creating a larger "mouth" on the below-cowl scoop for the
induction and creating some sort of flow divider to send some air to the
inlet and some to the cooler.
Not being educated in fluid dynamics I'm looking for general guidelines as
to an efficient method of engineering such an inlet/splitter combo.
Thanks for the warning...
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
Caution, my current aircraft has an oil cooler mounted on the lower cowling,
not much lower than where Robin's inlet is located. Unfortunately, the
manufacturer did no testing of that location, and in a climb it is enough of
a low pressure area that flow can actually reverse, passing from cylinder
bottoms out the oil cooler. Not good, and most every example I know of runs
210-215 oil temps. The only solution is for my aircraft is to relocate the
oil cooler to the rear top of the engine baffling. I suppose what really
needs examining is whether the engine air outlet is large enough or could
benefit from cowl flaps. It is unfortunate that the prototypes didn't get
any testing in AZ or TX to optimize engine cooling.
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Richard Bibb <rbibb@tomet.net> wrote:
In following the thread on the James Plenum and various others with cooling
problems I have been thinking about potential alternatives for my RV-10
setup (it's down the road as I'm just starting main fuselage).
For the aerodynamicists out there: How would a larger intake scoop that had
in internal split to feed intake air as well as oil cooler input work IYHO?
I'm thinking making the inlet a large affair that has a flow divider to send
air into the FI body and a separate path (via flex hose) to the Oil Cooler,
This allows the plenum to concentrate on supplying cooling air to the
cylinders without having any flow diverted to the oil cooler. Similar to
Robin Marks approach shown below but
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: James plenum question |
Robin,
Thanks for you input. That's a brave idea to cut into the lower cowling and move
the oil cooler. How did it work out? By the way, do you have some before and
after numbers for oil temps?
I have the stock engine, so I hope I'm not going to have too high temps but everyone
reassures me that I will so life is good, i'm assured to have a "hot" airplane
:)
Were your CHTs ok? Did closing off the oil cooler hole in the back help your CHTs
at all?
Lenny
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265303#265303
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
Like you, my background is in electronics, so my comments may not help!
I don't think the problem is in robbing the available air from the
cylinders, it's finding a balance in the area of entrance air Vs exit
air, and finding a less-obstructed path for the air. Lopresti was an
expert at it, and his son is carrying on the effort. Look at the size
of the holes in some 'certificated' cowls Vs the Swift Fury or the
Lancair. I'll go the plenum route ..... cowl seals leak ..... and I'll
use a manometer to try and balance the pressures. Providing for good
exit flows seem to help a lot.
Linn
Richard Bibb wrote:
> Well I wasnt thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just
> deriving the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock location
> but perhaps modified mount to reflect change in air source geometry)
> from a combined induction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is to eliminate
> the source of air for the oil cooer from the rear of the baffles
> (whether inside a plenum or not) as to increase cooling air for the
> cylinders. That creates the problem of creating an air source for the
> cooler. Rather than create a separate inlet I was thinking of creating
> a larger mouth on the below-cowl scoop for the induction and creating
> some sort of flow divider to send some air to the inlet and some to the
> cooler.
>
>
>
> Not being educated in fluid dynamics Im looking for general guidelines
> as to an efficient method of engineering such an inlet/splitter combo.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the warning..
>
>
>
> Richard Bibb
>
> 972-771-2598
>
> 972-835-5979 mobile
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
My thought was it would be easier to balance the flow if you didn't have a
big 3" round exit on one side of the engine. But I'm waiting for the
aerodynamicists to weigh in here...
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
Like you, my background is in electronics, so my comments may not help!
I don't think the problem is in robbing the available air from the
cylinders, it's finding a balance in the area of entrance air Vs exit
air, and finding a less-obstructed path for the air. Lopresti was an
expert at it, and his son is carrying on the effort. Look at the size
of the holes in some 'certificated' cowls Vs the Swift Fury or the
Lancair. I'll go the plenum route ..... cowl seals leak ..... and I'll
use a manometer to try and balance the pressures. Providing for good
exit flows seem to help a lot.
Linn
Richard Bibb wrote:
> Well I wasn't thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just
> deriving the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock location
> but perhaps modified mount to reflect change in air source geometry)
> from a combined induction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is to eliminate
> the source of air for the oil cooer from the rear of the baffles
> (whether inside a plenum or not) as to increase cooling air for the
> cylinders. That creates the problem of creating an air source for the
> cooler. Rather than create a separate inlet I was thinking of creating
> a larger "mouth" on the below-cowl scoop for the induction and creating
> some sort of flow divider to send some air to the inlet and some to the
> cooler.
>
>
>
> Not being educated in fluid dynamics I'm looking for general guidelines
> as to an efficient method of engineering such an inlet/splitter combo.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the warning...
>
>
>
> Richard Bibb
>
> 972-771-2598
>
> 972-835-5979 mobile
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Copperstate RV10 nest |
I am going and bringing fellow RV-10 Builder Jearl Strickland. Two
total.
Robin
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
pushrods and bellcranks.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:22 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins?
I am seeking some wise words of advice from the pioneers that have gone
before me please, just to make sure that I've covered all my bases before
closing the bottom skins.
Could someone please tell me if there are any prudent things that I should
consider prior to riveting on the bottom wing skins?
To date, I have routed all the wiring through conduits which pass through
the ribs; installed the pitot mast and plumbed the pitot line; installed the
pitot heater module; installed the roll servo and I've assembled the aileron
trim mechanism.
Is there anything that I may have forgotten to do please, you advice would
be very much appreciated?
Kind regards from down under.
Patrick Pulis
#40299 VH-XPP
Adelaide, South Australia
_____
Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more
<http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/launch09/tagline/*http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc
X3oDMTFnY201cHJnBHRtX2RtZWNoA1RleHQgTGluawR0bV9sbmsDVTExMDQ3NjAEdG1fbmV0A1lh
aG9vIQ--/SIG=11aljvgo4/*http%3A//au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/> .
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | FWF bag contents breakdown |
Does anyone have a bag breakdown from the FWF kit?
1.000 BAG 520 MISC. AN BOLTS
1.000 BAG 521 MISC. WASHERS
1.000 BAG 522 MISC. FITTINGS/CLAMPS
1.000 BAG 523-1 FITTINGS/MISC.
1.000 BAG 524 MISC. CLAMPS
1.000 BAG 525-1 MISC/BEARINGS
1.000 BAG 526 AEROSPACE EXH HARDWRE
I called Van's and was told they are on the plans.
Thank you!
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
The Navion had the oil cooler mounted on the firewall but the NACA duct was
on the cowl side with SCAT tube running back about 24" to the oil cooler a
nd ducting downward. There has been demonstrated to be very little air ente
ring the front of the cowl behind the prop in a lot of the angles of flight
. The sides alway pretty much has air passing over them.
From: rbibb@tomet.net
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
Well I wasn=92t thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just derivi
ng the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock location but perhaps
modified mount to reflect change in air source geometry) from a combined i
nduction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is to eliminate the source of air for
the oil cooer from the rear of the baffles (whether inside a plenum or not)
as to increase cooling air for the cylinders. That creates the problem of
creating an air source for the cooler. Rather than create a separate inle
t I was thinking of creating a larger =93mouth=94 on the below-cowl scoop
for the induction and creating some sort of flow divider to send some air t
o the inlet and some to the cooler.
Not being educated in fluid dynamics I=92m looking for general guidelines a
s to an efficient method of engineering such an inlet/splitter combo.
Thanks for the warning=85..
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Monday=2C September 28=2C 2009 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
Caution=2C my current aircraft has an oil cooler mounted on the lower cowli
ng=2C not much lower than where Robin's inlet is located. Unfortunately=2C
the manufacturer did no testing of that location=2C and in a climb it is en
ough of a low pressure area that flow can actually reverse=2C passing from
cylinder bottoms out the oil cooler. Not good=2C and most every example I k
now of runs 210-215 oil temps. The only solution is for my aircraft is to r
elocate the oil cooler to the rear top of the engine baffling. I suppose wh
at really needs examining is whether the engine air outlet is large enough
or could benefit from cowl flaps. It is unfortunate that the prototypes did
n't get any testing in AZ or TX to optimize engine cooling.
On Mon=2C Sep 28=2C 2009 at 7:23 AM=2C Richard Bibb <rbibb@tomet.net> wrote
:
In following the thread on the James Plenum and various others with cooling
problems I have been thinking about potential alternatives for my RV-10 se
tup (it=92s down the road as I=92m just starting main fuselage).
For the aerodynamicists out there: How would a larger intake scoop that ha
d in internal split to feed intake air as well as oil cooler input work IYH
O? I=92m thinking making the inlet a large affair that has a flow divider
to send air into the FI body and a separate path (via flex hose) to the Oil
Cooler=2C This allows the plenum to concentrate on supplying cooling air
to the cylinders without having any flow diverted to the oil cooler. Simil
ar to Robin Marks approach shown below but
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Hotmail=AE has ever-growing storage! Don=92t worry about storage limits.=0A
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tuto
rial_Storage_062009
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: FWF bag contents breakdown |
This is from Tim's site so it's a little old:
http://www.myrv10.com/files/kitparts/RV10_FWF_Kit_Hardware.pdf
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265329#265329
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
Exit flows. Delta P seems to be the most productive area of pursuit.
Get the low pressure lower cowl more efficient at extraction - both the
plenum air and the exhaust gases.
John Cox - a LoPresti follower and fan of Fred Moreno's reports.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Bibb
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 8:26 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
My thought was it would be easier to balance the flow if you didn't have
a
big 3" round exit on one side of the engine. But I'm waiting for the
aerodynamicists to weigh in here...
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
<pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Like you, my background is in electronics, so my comments may not help!
I don't think the problem is in robbing the available air from the
cylinders, it's finding a balance in the area of entrance air Vs exit
air, and finding a less-obstructed path for the air. Lopresti was an
expert at it, and his son is carrying on the effort. Look at the size
of the holes in some 'certificated' cowls Vs the Swift Fury or the
Lancair. I'll go the plenum route ..... cowl seals leak ..... and I'll
use a manometer to try and balance the pressures. Providing for good
exit flows seem to help a lot.
Linn
Richard Bibb wrote:
> Well I wasn't thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just
> deriving the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock location
> but perhaps modified mount to reflect change in air source geometry)
> from a combined induction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is to eliminate
> the source of air for the oil cooer from the rear of the baffles
> (whether inside a plenum or not) as to increase cooling air for the
> cylinders. That creates the problem of creating an air source for the
> cooler. Rather than create a separate inlet I was thinking of
creating
> a larger "mouth" on the below-cowl scoop for the induction and
creating
> some sort of flow divider to send some air to the inlet and some to
the
> cooler.
>
>
>
> Not being educated in fluid dynamics I'm looking for general
guidelines
> as to an efficient method of engineering such an inlet/splitter combo.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the warning...
>
>
>
> Richard Bibb
>
> 972-771-2598
>
> 972-835-5979 mobile
>
>
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
This is an interesting discussion. I have a friend (Bob Cole) with an RV-6 that
has done some extensive modifications to his cowling and I plan to follow in
his footsteps. Let me tell you a little about Bob. He couldn't get the performance
that he expected from the Katto prop he had made so he learned about prop
design and manufacturing and made his own. He is on his fourth 'tweak' (prop)
and has it just about what he considers perfect. He decided to build his
own exhaust system so he learned about designing balanced flow exhaust systems
and made his own. He has since made several further modifications to further
improve the performance and keeps working on the next knot of speed, degree
of cooling, etc. In each case he gets a base line measurement of performance
before he makes his changes (they don't all make it better).
So about improving cooling. Bob's approach has been to use an airspeed indicator
to measure the change in the differential air pressure before and after any
airflow modifications. He simply runs the indicator tubes to the front and back
of the testing area, gets a baseline and checks again after the change. Like
many others, he found that reducing the air inlet area on the cowling improved
the air flow through the cowling. Something about air being damned up in
that area when the opening is too large, which is typical of the Van's design.
He also worked on getting the air out more effectively with a ramp on the back
of the cowl. One of the things that made a big difference for him was to pay
special attention on making sure that the seal to the engine baffling was 100%
effective (no leaks). It is the simple things that can make the biggest difference.
I saw how much information you can get from the measurement of the differential
pressure (air speed indicator) throughout the engine area that I installed a
small device from Honeywell (sourced from Allied Electronics) that will allow
me to electronically do what Bob has done without having to run the tubes through
the firewall (2-wires). I expect to make various modification to the -10
for cooling efficiency, etc. (not flying yet).
The bottom line to this conversation is that getting more air into the cowling
is often more of a problem than a solution. Also, get a good baseline measurement
before you make any changes. And also to thank the Bob's of the world for
their curiosity, intelligence, gumption and incredible talent.
--------
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Finish
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265331#265331
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
High angles of attack coupled with higher ambient temperatures certainly
would have skewed the design results. Being in the Northern climate and
cooler temperature your idea holds strong merit. Too bad a great design
could not be reconsidered by the Parts Manufacturer.
Much of the trailblazing is being done by the great group of "Early
Adapters" south of the Oregon border.
John - Aurora, OR
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
Caution, my current aircraft has an oil cooler mounted on the lower
cowling, not much lower than where Robin's inlet is located.
Unfortunately, the manufacturer did no testing of that location, and in
a climb it is enough of a low pressure area that flow can actually
reverse, passing from cylinder bottoms out the oil cooler. Not good, and
most every example I know of runs 210-215 oil temps. The only solution
is for my aircraft is to relocate the oil cooler to the rear top of the
engine baffling. I suppose what really needs examining is whether the
engine air outlet is large enough or could benefit from cowl flaps. It
is unfortunate that the prototypes didn't get any testing in AZ or TX to
optimize engine cooling.
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Richard Bibb <rbibb@tomet.net> wrote:
In following the thread on the James Plenum and various others with
cooling problems I have been thinking about potential alternatives for
my RV-10 setup (it's down the road as I'm just starting main fuselage).
For the aerodynamicists out there: How would a larger intake scoop that
had in internal split to feed intake air as well as oil cooler input
work IYHO? I'm thinking making the inlet a large affair that has a flow
divider to send air into the FI body and a separate path (via flex hose)
to the Oil Cooler, This allows the plenum to concentrate on supplying
cooling air to the cylinders without having any flow diverted to the oil
cooler. Similar to Robin Marks approach shown below but
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
I'll venture into the oil cooler mount/high temp waters with some thoughts:
1. There was a good article a few months back in one of the kit magazines
on cooling air flow into the engine. The bottom line is once the top of the
cowl (or plenum) is pressurized, the cylinder airflow (lbm/hr) is fairly
uniform. My take from this is the air coming off the back for the oil
cooler does not affect one side more than the other.
2. This article also discussed the relatively high pressure area at the
front top of the cowl caused by air bouncing off the rear baffle. The
lesson learned is make sure the front cowl seal is in good shape.
3. The third take away from the article is huge gain received from
smoothing the cowl air inlet passages. For the James cowl this is done by
design. For the Van's cowl this is done by adding the top cowl inlet ramps.
4. While the standard Van's mount has clear advantage for installation
ease, I can't see how multiple redirections of air flow can go any good. I
am not using this standard oil cooler mount in my project.
5. Talking with others, I get the impression that the mid/aft cowl region
is a relatively high pressure area. This would contribute to a lower
differential pressure across the oil cooler (in the standard mount) and thus
lower air flow.
6. The other heat problem I see are the cabin heat valves. As they are
shut on hot days, the more than ample heat muff hot air bounces off the
closed valves directly toward the fuel pump. In addition to heating the
wrong component, I would guess this additional air pressure in the aft mid
cowl region contributes to the less than adequate differential pressure
across the oil cooler in the standard mount.
What I'm doing:
1. Using the James Cowl and plenum
2. Mounting the oil cooler aft of the rear baffle with a direct connection
for air flow.
3. Mounted Cool Mat between the cabin heat valves and over the top and
front of the valves. The objective is to isolate radiant heat from the
firewall and tunnel and redirect the unused hot air down toward the bottom
of the cowl.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (500 hrs)
RV-10 (fuselage make it pretty fiberglass work)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Bibb
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:26 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
My thought was it would be easier to balance the flow if you didn't have a
big 3" round exit on one side of the engine. But I'm waiting for the
aerodynamicists to weigh in here...
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
Like you, my background is in electronics, so my comments may not help!
I don't think the problem is in robbing the available air from the
cylinders, it's finding a balance in the area of entrance air Vs exit
air, and finding a less-obstructed path for the air. Lopresti was an
expert at it, and his son is carrying on the effort. Look at the size
of the holes in some 'certificated' cowls Vs the Swift Fury or the
Lancair. I'll go the plenum route ..... cowl seals leak ..... and I'll
use a manometer to try and balance the pressures. Providing for good
exit flows seem to help a lot.
Linn
Richard Bibb wrote:
> Well I wasn't thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just
> deriving the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock location
> but perhaps modified mount to reflect change in air source geometry)
> from a combined induction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is to eliminate
> the source of air for the oil cooer from the rear of the baffles
> (whether inside a plenum or not) as to increase cooling air for the
> cylinders. That creates the problem of creating an air source for the
> cooler. Rather than create a separate inlet I was thinking of creating
> a larger "mouth" on the below-cowl scoop for the induction and creating
> some sort of flow divider to send some air to the inlet and some to the
> cooler.
>
>
>
> Not being educated in fluid dynamics I'm looking for general guidelines
> as to an efficient method of engineering such an inlet/splitter combo.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the warning...
>
>
>
> Richard Bibb
>
> 972-771-2598
>
> 972-835-5979 mobile
>
>
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Copperstate RV10 nest |
John Cox & Greg Guy from Oregon = 2, so let us know how we can sweeten
the pot financially for the fabulous job done last year. If LOE is the
same weekend, sorry guys, there are prettier RV-10s in Arizona this time
of year and too many non RV-10 builders can spoil a great get together.
I am surprised no one posted the turnout from the VANS annual get
together from Independence (7S5) back at the first of the month.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of woxofswa
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 8:20 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Copperstate RV10 nest
The second (and last), annual RV10 nest at Copperstate is a go.
Should be set up by Friday morning through Sat night for a shady place
to relax.
Carne Asada mid day Saturday until its gone. Would like to get a rough
head count for planning purposes.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265270#265270
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: FWF bag contents breakdown |
BTW- I called Vans support on the FF1 instructions covered on FF1-3 (figure
2) for the DWG-7 clamps that are attached to the firewall and hold the VA133
(oil pressure hose). Was told that now that they have a new vendor for their
hoses the VA-133 is slimmer and needs the DWG-5 clamp. This does not apply
to older kits that have the older hoses.
Thanks Todd for the response. Missed that on Tim's page- and I did look.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "tsts4" <tsts4@verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:12 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: FWF bag contents breakdown
>
> This is from Tim's site so it's a little old:
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/files/kitparts/RV10_FWF_Kit_Hardware.pdf
>
> --------
> Todd Stovall
> 728TT (reserved)
> RV-10 Empacone, Wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265329#265329
>
>
>
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: James plenum question |
Lenny,
I no longer have any specific numbers but here is a thumbnail of
our development.
First we worked closely with Airflow Performance who loaned us a
Manometer to test differential pressure (DP) in many different areas on
our set up. We probably relocated and tested DP's in 20+ different
areas. It was immediately obvious that the DP over the oil cooler was
very poor. And in the case of the oil cooler wedge the DP was small and
not evenly distributed meaning that the upper portion of the cooler was
receiving most of the minimal airflow while the lower 1/3 had almost no
airflow so 1/3rd of the cooler was just along for the ride. In rough
numbers we were getting DP's of between 0.7 to 1.5 "W/C. We tried a
bunch of different configurations with the oil cooler temperately
supported in different areas. We also tested DP from the top of the
engine to the bottom and near the outlet area. The DP was just not that
significant in our set up to drive the air through the cylinders and out
the bottom of the cowl. If our thinking was correct and we were not
seeing a large DP over the cylinders than most likely much of the
cooling air was reversing out the inlet holes causing two issues,
minimal cooling and disturbed aerodynamic as the airflow is pouring out
the front of the cowl instead of down & out the underside.. Once we knew
that we first worked on opening up the bottom of the cowl by trimming
back & adding first one set of AFP louvers then a second set of louvers.
This helped substantially but still not enough to drive out CHTs' under
400.
After exhausting all other likely options we decided that the
CHT/EGT issue was one in the same and that we were not going to get the
CHT's lower till we got the oil temps inline. We seem to always have
CHT's two times Oil Temps (215/430, 212/425...). We decided that
pulling hot air off the engine and running it through the largest oil
cooler AFP makes was not enough so we chose to seal up the back end of
the plenum providing more cooling air to the cylinders and cutting a RAM
air inlet for a high volume of cooler air direct to the oil cooler. The
DP results were immediate. We went from 0.7-1.2 "W/C (depending on the
phase of flight) to 7.0-9.0 "W/C. That is a HUGE change over the cooler.
This made the plane flyable and brought our oil temps to about 220-230
in climb and 210 in cruise. CHT's were now 410-420 in cruise. Please
keep in mind this was a brand new engine that tends to run hot for up to
150 hours. I am now at 85 hours and am seeing further settling down of
both CHT's & oil tempts. Again the oil temps are coming down slightly
because the CHT's are a bit lower. Unfortunately they are both still
higher than I would like and probably higher than optimal.
So the major improvements came when we opened up the bottom of
the cowl and when we plumbed RAM air to the oil cooler. Still none of
these numbers are great or even good in my opinion but I can now fly the
plane consistently with numbers that are not detrimental to the engine.
My plan is to get past 150 hours TT and see where the engine settles in
temp wise. Additionally I am working on optimizing for LOP which should
really help the temps all the way around.
I have to say I am a bit surprised that most standard build
-10's still using the wedge and original oil cooler do not have greater
temp problems. I do live in CA with high OAT's but still our numbers are
still too high to be acceptable.
The one option we did not try was to place a louver on the side
of the lower cowl and orient the back side of the oil cooler towards
that louver. Some have added these side louvers (one or both sides) with
some success (I believe). We did not want to ruin the appearance of the
nose area but in retrospect anything that improves functions is probably
better looking than Yellow or Red warning indications on your PFD.
To those that are to follow us down the path of alternate
cowl/plenum I can only say good luck. This mod has cost us significantly
more time & money to develop than we ever thought it could. Add the
potential costs of an engine not going to TBO and the stock Vans cowl is
looking better & better all the time. That Van is a smart guy. Finally
the hassle of having to remove the plenum every time you want to take a
look at something quadruples (or worse) the amount of time it takes to
remove the lid. I can take my top cowl off in 90 seconds. The plenum is
another story even with our simple attachment mechanism It's 5-7 minutes
off and 10 minutes on plus wear & tear.
I have to say that so many of my original ideas in aviation were
wrong. I always thought I wanted retract aircraft till I owned several
of them. I then discovered the retracts can be a pain in the rear by
adding complexity, weight & maintenance costs, plus increase insurance
rates. I hope to never own a retract again (Pilatus excluded). Same goes
for the beauty of the round inlet cowls that have ZERO engineering
behind them. Don't fool yourself, these cowls are originally crafted for
looks. No one did 3D modeling, computer simulations, critical airflow
analysis, probably not even a slide rule or an abacus to generate this
design. Just another pretty face. And hot too! But the wrong type of hot
unfortunately. Throw in the pressure issues trying to run LOP vs. the
standard cowl and you may have more R&D than you were planning to
perform once you plane is past Phase 1.
Again off to the airport for my regular commute.
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lenny Iszak
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 7:04 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: James plenum question
<lenard@rapiddecision.com>
Robin,
Thanks for you input. That's a brave idea to cut into the lower cowling
and move the oil cooler. How did it work out? By the way, do you have
some before and after numbers for oil temps?
I have the stock engine, so I hope I'm not going to have too high temps
but everyone reassures me that I will so life is good, i'm assured to
have a "hot" airplane :)
Were your CHTs ok? Did closing off the oil cooler hole in the back help
your CHTs at all?
Lenny
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265303#265303
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/27/09 17:52:00
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Copperstate RV10 nest |
John,
A must go too. If anyone has not attended before. A large RV community
grathering. LOE dates are OCT 9th thru 11th, Santa Teresa Airport (5T6), NW..
Copperstate, OCT 22nd thru 24th, Casa Grande Airport (KCGZ), AZ.
So no conflicts here between the two RV gatherings.
Will be going to both.
Member SoCal RV Group
Bill Souza
RV-10
N279RB
--- On Mon, 9/28/09, John Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
> From: John Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Copperstate RV10 nest
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 9:35 AM
> "John Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> John Cox & Greg Guy from Oregon = 2, so let us know how
> we can sweeten
> the pot financially for the fabulous job done last
> year. If LOE is the
> same weekend, sorry guys, there are prettier RV-10s in
> Arizona this time
> of year and too many non RV-10 builders can spoil a great
> get together.
>
> I am surprised no one posted the turnout from the VANS
> annual get
> together from Independence (7S5) back at the first of the
> month.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of woxofswa
> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 8:20 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Copperstate RV10 nest
>
>
> The second (and last), annual RV10 nest at Copperstate is a
> go.
>
> Should be set up by Friday morning through Sat night for a
> shady place
> to relax.
>
> Carne Asada mid day Saturday until its gone. Would
> like to get a rough
> head count for planning purposes.
>
>
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265270#265270
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | new item for the rv-10 back seats |
Congrats Ben! She looks beautiful.
Congrats also to Jesse, quite the clan you are building!
The RV-10 sure is a great family airplane. Ironically I am at the other end
of the spectrum and switched from a RV-7 to the -10 because my girls went
and grew up somehow. I thought it would be the best way to try and keep the
family together with them venturing off to college and beyond. Let me tell
you, it works! I have lived 12-14 hours drive from them for the past few
years and the 4 hour trip in the -10 is much more palatable as well as
possible on a busy schedule.
Marcus
40286
From: Ben Westfall [mailto:rv10@sinkrate.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 12:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: new item for the rv-10 back seats
Hey guys I thought I'd show you our newest "add-on" for the RV-10 J. It
goes in the back seat and adds to the beauty of the plane. Good thing we're
building the 4 seater!
Ben Westfall
Portland, OR
#40579 (Finish Kit)
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
"I installed a small device from Honeywell (sourced from Allied Electronics
) that will allow me to electronically"......could you be a bit more specif
ic about this device. Sounds like something I need to look at. Very interes
ting discussion! Dan
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
> From: nick@nleonard.com
> Date: Mon=2C 28 Sep 2009 09:23:36 -0700
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
> This is an interesting discussion. I have a friend (Bob Cole) with an RV-
6 that has done some extensive modifications to his cowling and I plan to f
ollow in his footsteps. Let me tell you a little about Bob. He couldn't get
the performance that he expected from the Katto prop he had made so he lea
rned about prop design and manufacturing and made his own. He is on his fou
rth 'tweak' (prop) and has it just about what he considers perfect. He deci
ded to build his own exhaust system so he learned about designing balanced
flow exhaust systems and made his own. He has since made several further mo
difications to further improve the performance and keeps working on the nex
t knot of speed=2C degree of cooling=2C etc. In each case he gets a base li
ne measurement of performance before he makes his changes (they don't all m
ake it better).
>
> So about improving cooling. Bob's approach has been to use an airspeed in
dicator to measure the change in the differential air pressure before and a
fter any airflow modifications. He simply runs the indicator tubes to the f
ront and back of the testing area=2C gets a baseline and checks again after
the change. Like many others=2C he found that reducing the air inlet area
on the cowling improved the air flow through the cowling. Something about a
ir being damned up in that area when the opening is too large=2C which is t
ypical of the Van's design. He also worked on getting the air out more effe
ctively with a ramp on the back of the cowl. One of the things that made a
big difference for him was to pay special attention on making sure that the
seal to the engine baffling was 100% effective (no leaks). It is the simpl
e things that can make the biggest difference.
>
> I saw how much information you can get from the measurement of the differ
ential pressure (air speed indicator) throughout the engine area that I ins
talled a small device from Honeywell (sourced from Allied Electronics) that
will allow me to electronically do what Bob has done without having to run
the tubes through the firewall (2-wires). I expect to make various modific
ation to the -10 for cooling efficiency=2C etc. (not flying yet).
>
> The bottom line to this conversation is that getting more air into the co
wling is often more of a problem than a solution. Also=2C get a good baseli
ne measurement before you make any changes. And also to thank the Bob's of
the world for their curiosity=2C intelligence=2C gumption and incredible ta
lent.
>
> --------
> Nick Leonard
> RV-10 (40015) Finish
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265331#265331
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing=99 now=0A
http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_ta
gline_try bing_1x1
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Copperstate RV10 nest |
Some guys have all the luck. Say high to the RV-10 corral. I try to stay away
from large groups after getting my OSH fix each summer;-)
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Souza
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:30 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Copperstate RV10 nest
John,
A must go too. If anyone has not attended before. A large RV community
grathering. LOE dates are OCT 9th thru 11th, Santa Teresa Airport (5T6), NW..
Copperstate, OCT 22nd thru 24th, Casa Grande Airport (KCGZ), AZ.
So no conflicts here between the two RV gatherings.
Will be going to both.
Member SoCal RV Group
Bill Souza
RV-10
N279RB
--- On Mon, 9/28/09, John Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
> From: John Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Copperstate RV10 nest
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 9:35 AM
> "John Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> John Cox & Greg Guy from Oregon = 2, so let us know how
> we can sweeten
> the pot financially for the fabulous job done last
> year. If LOE is the
> same weekend, sorry guys, there are prettier RV-10s in
> Arizona this time
> of year and too many non RV-10 builders can spoil a great
> get together.
>
> I am surprised no one posted the turnout from the VANS
> annual get
> together from Independence (7S5) back at the first of the
> month.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of woxofswa
> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 8:20 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Copperstate RV10 nest
>
>
> The second (and last), annual RV10 nest at Copperstate is a
> go.
>
> Should be set up by Friday morning through Sat night for a
> shady place
> to relax.
>
> Carne Asada mid day Saturday until its gone. Would
> like to get a rough
> head count for planning purposes.
>
>
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265270#265270
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I don't know the builder or owner..
Phil
=================
Airframe Info
Manufacturer:
Koonce John P <http://www.airport-data.com/manuf/Koonce_John_P.html>
Model:
RV-10 \
Year built:
2007
Construction Number (C/N):
40428
Number of Seats:
4
Number of Engines:
1
Engine Manufacturer and Model:
Lycoming IO-540-D4A5
Owner
Registration Type:
Individual
Address:
Jefferson City, MO 65109
United States
Region:
Central
Status
Certification Class:
Experimental
Certification Issued:
2007-02-06
Air Worthiness Test:
2007-06-13
Last Action Taken:
2007-02-06
Current Status:
Valid
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: door
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing:
N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real f
irm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
From: dlm46007@cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF=2C PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT=2C LANDED W
ITHOUT
INCIDENT=2C JEFFERSON CITY=2C MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk
:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk
:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk
:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.=0A
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tut
orial_QuickAdd_062009
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: FireWall Engine Side Paint? |
I would not recommend you use any firewall material on the engine
compartment firewall side. It will not work and will not last and will
suckup any and all fluids in the compnartment and become a fire hazard.
Using it on the cabin side is where most people and manufactures place this.
John G. Cumins
AP
40864 Trim Tabs 98% done
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of conradb
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 8:26 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: FireWall Engine Side Paint?
Another person mentioned that the firewall could become in excess of 200
degree during shutdown/cooling off period. He also mentioned that using a
foil/heat blanket barrier from Spruce Aircraft Supply on the engine side of
the firewall. So what I think I'll do is remove the existing low temp
paint, repaint with high temp paint and use a barrier material on BOTH sides
of the firewall to keep the sound and temps low and the avionics cooler.
--------
Conrad Booze
Sr. Engineer
P. O. Box 7028
Warner Robins, GA. 31095
(478)-335-4264
conradbooze@cox.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265176#265176
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
This is a familiar topic. ;-) I have the James cowl/Plenum,
Live in AZ and have to deal with heat issues (Today's high will reach
107!). I have been through several machinations in an attempt to deal
with heat. Ton's of louvers on bottom of cowl, increasing the lower cowl
exit area 5-10%. Plenum rework, baffle sealing. I still have the oil
cooler mounted in the stock (Van's) location. My current temps are
'manageable'. Everything is linked directly to OAT, the cooler the
better. With OAT of approx 90-95, On Take Off, I will see Oil temps
climb to 210-215 if I keep airspeed up to 120-130 kts. Hottest cyls CHT
seem to peak @ 400-405. At altitude oil temps come back to 195 and CHT
to 360-380. On our trip back east (ie. cooler temps) we saw oil temps
175-185. I consider my temperatures on the high side, but am worried
about overreacting until I get some more experience in some lower
temperatures.
One approach I have considered is relocating the oil cooler to behind
the baffle (#6 likely). Initially I didn't think there was enough room,
however I saw an installation on an F1 Rocket
http://www.pflanzer-aviation.com/Engine9.html which got me thinking, I
borrowed an unmounted oil cooler and did a loose test fit and I think it
could be made to work.
Deems Davis
www.deemsrv10.com
N519PJ
Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> I'll venture into the oil cooler mount/high temp waters with some thoughts:
> 1. There was a good article a few months back in one of the kit magazines
> on cooling air flow into the engine. The bottom line is once the top of the
> cowl (or plenum) is pressurized, the cylinder airflow (lbm/hr) is fairly
> uniform. My take from this is the air coming off the back for the oil
> cooler does not affect one side more than the other.
> 2. This article also discussed the relatively high pressure area at the
> front top of the cowl caused by air bouncing off the rear baffle. The
> lesson learned is make sure the front cowl seal is in good shape.
> 3. The third take away from the article is huge gain received from
> smoothing the cowl air inlet passages. For the James cowl this is done by
> design. For the Van's cowl this is done by adding the top cowl inlet ramps.
> 4. While the standard Van's mount has clear advantage for installation
> ease, I can't see how multiple redirections of air flow can go any good. I
> am not using this standard oil cooler mount in my project.
> 5. Talking with others, I get the impression that the mid/aft cowl region
> is a relatively high pressure area. This would contribute to a lower
> differential pressure across the oil cooler (in the standard mount) and thus
> lower air flow.
> 6. The other heat problem I see are the cabin heat valves. As they are
> shut on hot days, the more than ample heat muff hot air bounces off the
> closed valves directly toward the fuel pump. In addition to heating the
> wrong component, I would guess this additional air pressure in the aft mid
> cowl region contributes to the less than adequate differential pressure
> across the oil cooler in the standard mount.
>
> What I'm doing:
> 1. Using the James Cowl and plenum
> 2. Mounting the oil cooler aft of the rear baffle with a direct connection
> for air flow.
> 3. Mounted Cool Mat between the cabin heat valves and over the top and
> front of the valves. The objective is to isolate radiant heat from the
> firewall and tunnel and redirect the unused hot air down toward the bottom
> of the cowl.
>
> Carl Froehlich
> RV-8A (500 hrs)
> RV-10 (fuselage make it pretty fiberglass work)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Bibb
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:26 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
>
>
> My thought was it would be easier to balance the flow if you didn't have a
> big 3" round exit on one side of the engine. But I'm waiting for the
> aerodynamicists to weigh in here...
>
> Richard Bibb
> 972-771-2598
> 972-835-5979 mobile
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:48 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
>
>
> Like you, my background is in electronics, so my comments may not help!
> I don't think the problem is in robbing the available air from the
> cylinders, it's finding a balance in the area of entrance air Vs exit
> air, and finding a less-obstructed path for the air. Lopresti was an
> expert at it, and his son is carrying on the effort. Look at the size
> of the holes in some 'certificated' cowls Vs the Swift Fury or the
> Lancair. I'll go the plenum route ..... cowl seals leak ..... and I'll
> use a manometer to try and balance the pressures. Providing for good
> exit flows seem to help a lot.
> Linn
>
>
> Richard Bibb wrote:
>
>> Well I wasn't thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just
>> deriving the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock location
>> but perhaps modified mount to reflect change in air source geometry)
>> from a combined induction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is to eliminate
>> the source of air for the oil cooer from the rear of the baffles
>> (whether inside a plenum or not) as to increase cooling air for the
>> cylinders. That creates the problem of creating an air source for the
>> cooler. Rather than create a separate inlet I was thinking of creating
>> a larger "mouth" on the below-cowl scoop for the induction and creating
>> some sort of flow divider to send some air to the inlet and some to the
>> cooler.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not being educated in fluid dynamics I'm looking for general guidelines
>> as to an efficient method of engineering such an inlet/splitter combo.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the warning...
>>
>>
>>
>> Richard Bibb
>>
>> 972-771-2598
>>
>> 972-835-5979 mobile
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 34
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: James plenum question |
Here's a link to some pictures that might help.
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%20FF6%20Exhaust%20System/index.html
However, it should be noted that I have since removed the heat muff on
the left side, in a semi-successful attempt to clean-up the airflow in
this area and to improve cooling.
(Cabin heat is NOT an issue for me currently)
Deems Davis
N519PJ
Lenny Iszak wrote:
>
> Those of you who installed the James plenum (Deems, Robin?), how did you get
air to the left side heat muff?
>
> Thanks,
> Lenny
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265254#265254
>
>
>
Message 35
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | new item for the rv-10 back seats |
Ben Congrats
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution ProviderFrom:
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 10:56 AM
Subject: RV10-List: new item for the rv-10 back seats
Hey guys I thought I'd show you our newest "add-on" for the RV-10 J. It
goes in the back seat and adds to the beauty of the plane. Good thing we're
building the 4 seater!
Ben Westfall
Portland, OR
#40579 (Finish Kit)
Message 36
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors
and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before
takeoff.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
<http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/emoticons/smile_sad.gif>
_____
From: dlm46007@cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. See how.
<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutor
ial_QuickAdd_062009>
Message 37
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Probably the achilles heal of the 10. We use a secondary strap every time. Simple
and reliable--I think. larry
--------
Larry and Gayle N104LG
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265394#265394
Message 38
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
I've often wondered if a more direct route to the airflow would help the oil
cooler. Would this location give enough room for "exhausting" the hot air?
I wonder what it would do pressure wise for air behind the baffling?
I sure wish somebody would figure this out :-).
Ben Westfall
Portland, OR
#40579
-----Original Message-----
This is a familiar topic. ;-) I have the James cowl/Plenum,
Live in AZ and have to deal with heat issues (Today's high will reach
107!). I have been through several machinations in an attempt to deal
with heat. Ton's of louvers on bottom of cowl, increasing the lower cowl
exit area 5-10%. Plenum rework, baffle sealing. I still have the oil
cooler mounted in the stock (Van's) location. My current temps are
'manageable'. Everything is linked directly to OAT, the cooler the
better. With OAT of approx 90-95, On Take Off, I will see Oil temps
climb to 210-215 if I keep airspeed up to 120-130 kts. Hottest cyls CHT
seem to peak @ 400-405. At altitude oil temps come back to 195 and CHT
to 360-380. On our trip back east (ie. cooler temps) we saw oil temps
175-185. I consider my temperatures on the high side, but am worried
about overreacting until I get some more experience in some lower
temperatures.
One approach I have considered is relocating the oil cooler to behind
the baffle (#6 likely). Initially I didn't think there was enough room,
however I saw an installation on an F1 Rocket
http://www.pflanzer-aviation.com/Engine9.html which got me thinking, I
borrowed an unmounted oil cooler and did a loose test fit and I think it
could be made to work.
Deems Davis
www.deemsrv10.com
N519PJ
Message 39
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
I've been interested in the oil cooler thread ...... because I'll be
there someday! One other poster measured the pressures across the
cooler, but I couldn't find it .... anyway my thoughts were a plenum on
the output side to deflect the air towards the lower cowl outlet .... or
a dedicated louver ..... instead of just letting it blow into the
pressurized lower cowl.
Linn
do not archive
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> This is a familiar topic. ;-) I have the James cowl/Plenum,
> Live in AZ and have to deal with heat issues (Today's high will reach
> 107!). I have been through several machinations in an attempt to deal
> with heat. Ton's of louvers on bottom of cowl, increasing the lower cowl
> exit area 5-10%. Plenum rework, baffle sealing. I still have the oil
> cooler mounted in the stock (Van's) location. My current temps are
> 'manageable'. Everything is linked directly to OAT, the cooler the
> better. With OAT of approx 90-95, On Take Off, I will see Oil temps
> climb to 210-215 if I keep airspeed up to 120-130 kts. Hottest cyls CHT
> seem to peak @ 400-405. At altitude oil temps come back to 195 and CHT
> to 360-380. On our trip back east (ie. cooler temps) we saw oil temps
> 175-185. I consider my temperatures on the high side, but am worried
> about overreacting until I get some more experience in some lower
> temperatures.
> One approach I have considered is relocating the oil cooler to behind
> the baffle (#6 likely). Initially I didn't think there was enough room,
> however I saw an installation on an F1 Rocket
> http://www.pflanzer-aviation.com/Engine9.html which got me thinking, I
> borrowed an unmounted oil cooler and did a loose test fit and I think it
> could be made to work.
>
> Deems Davis
> www.deemsrv10.com
> N519PJ
>
> Carl Froehlich wrote:
>> <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
>>
>> I'll venture into the oil cooler mount/high temp waters with some
>> thoughts:
>> 1. There was a good article a few months back in one of the kit
>> magazines
>> on cooling air flow into the engine. The bottom line is once the top
>> of the
>> cowl (or plenum) is pressurized, the cylinder airflow (lbm/hr) is fairly
>> uniform. My take from this is the air coming off the back for the oil
>> cooler does not affect one side more than the other.
>> 2. This article also discussed the relatively high pressure area at the
>> front top of the cowl caused by air bouncing off the rear baffle. The
>> lesson learned is make sure the front cowl seal is in good shape.
>> 3. The third take away from the article is huge gain received from
>> smoothing the cowl air inlet passages. For the James cowl this is
>> done by
>> design. For the Van's cowl this is done by adding the top cowl inlet
>> ramps.
>> 4. While the standard Van's mount has clear advantage for installation
>> ease, I can't see how multiple redirections of air flow can go any
>> good. I
>> am not using this standard oil cooler mount in my project.
>> 5. Talking with others, I get the impression that the mid/aft cowl
>> region
>> is a relatively high pressure area. This would contribute to a lower
>> differential pressure across the oil cooler (in the standard mount)
>> and thus
>> lower air flow.
>> 6. The other heat problem I see are the cabin heat valves. As they are
>> shut on hot days, the more than ample heat muff hot air bounces off the
>> closed valves directly toward the fuel pump. In addition to heating the
>> wrong component, I would guess this additional air pressure in the aft
>> mid
>> cowl region contributes to the less than adequate differential pressure
>> across the oil cooler in the standard mount.
>> What I'm doing:
>> 1. Using the James Cowl and plenum
>> 2. Mounting the oil cooler aft of the rear baffle with a direct
>> connection
>> for air flow. 3. Mounted Cool Mat between the cabin heat valves and
>> over the top and
>> front of the valves. The objective is to isolate radiant heat from the
>> firewall and tunnel and redirect the unused hot air down toward the
>> bottom
>> of the cowl.
>>
>> Carl Froehlich
>> RV-8A (500 hrs)
>> RV-10 (fuselage make it pretty fiberglass work)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Bibb
>> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:26 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
>>
>>
>> My thought was it would be easier to balance the flow if you didn't
>> have a
>> big 3" round exit on one side of the engine. But I'm waiting for the
>> aerodynamicists to weigh in here...
>>
>> Richard Bibb
>> 972-771-2598
>> 972-835-5979 mobile
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
>> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:48 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
>>
>>
>> Like you, my background is in electronics, so my comments may not
>> help! I don't think the problem is in robbing the available air from
>> the cylinders, it's finding a balance in the area of entrance air Vs
>> exit air, and finding a less-obstructed path for the air. Lopresti
>> was an expert at it, and his son is carrying on the effort. Look at
>> the size of the holes in some 'certificated' cowls Vs the Swift Fury
>> or the Lancair. I'll go the plenum route ..... cowl seals leak .....
>> and I'll use a manometer to try and balance the pressures. Providing
>> for good exit flows seem to help a lot.
>> Linn
>>
>>
>> Richard Bibb wrote:
>>
>>> Well I wasn't thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just
>>> deriving the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock location
>>> but perhaps modified mount to reflect change in air source geometry)
>>> from a combined induction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is to eliminate
>>> the source of air for the oil cooer from the rear of the baffles
>>> (whether inside a plenum or not) as to increase cooling air for the
>>> cylinders. That creates the problem of creating an air source for
>>> the cooler. Rather than create a separate inlet I was thinking of
>>> creating a larger "mouth" on the below-cowl scoop for the induction
>>> and creating some sort of flow divider to send some air to the inlet
>>> and some to the cooler.
>>>
>>>
>>> Not being educated in fluid dynamics I'm looking for general
>>> guidelines as to an efficient method of engineering such an
>>> inlet/splitter combo.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the warning...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard Bibb
>>>
>>> 972-771-2598
>>>
>>> 972-835-5979 mobile
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 40
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors
and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before
takeoff.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
<http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/emoticons/smile_sad.gif>
_____
From: dlm46007@cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. See how.
<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutor
ial_QuickAdd_062009>
Message 41
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
It's really essential that everyone have some improved way of keeping the
doors closed: our metal door blocks are one way, buy you could also make
your own, get Rivetheads, use a strap or something. This is happening a LO
T
and it's only a matter of time until the results are very bad.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:02 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
> changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the door
s
> and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before
> takeoff.
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Danny Riggs
> *Sent:* Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: door
>
> That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weeke
nd
> and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
> firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
>
> ------------------------------
> From: dlm46007@cox.net
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: door
> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
>
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
> Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing:
N
> Damage: Minor
>
> LOCATION
> City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
> WITHOUT
> INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> # Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
>
> WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
>
> *
>
> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/con
tribution
> *
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE. See how.<http://w
indowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Qu
ickAdd_062009>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
*
>
> *
>
===========
ronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
===========
=========
> =
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
Message 42
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
I tried that. ........didn't help
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Phase1/slides/DSC07522.html
Deems
Linn Walters wrote:
>
> I've been interested in the oil cooler thread ...... because I'll be
> there someday! One other poster measured the pressures across the
> cooler, but I couldn't find it .... anyway my thoughts were a plenum
> on the output side to deflect the air towards the lower cowl outlet
> .... or a dedicated louver ..... instead of just letting it blow
> into the pressurized lower cowl.
> Linn
> do not archive
> Deems Davis wrote:
>>
>> This is a familiar topic. ;-) I have the James
>> cowl/Plenum, Live in AZ and have to deal with heat issues (Today's
>> high will reach 107!). I have been through several machinations in an
>> attempt to deal with heat. Ton's of louvers on bottom of cowl,
>> increasing the lower cowl exit area 5-10%. Plenum rework, baffle
>> sealing. I still have the oil cooler mounted in the stock (Van's)
>> location. My current temps are 'manageable'. Everything is linked
>> directly to OAT, the cooler the better. With OAT of approx 90-95, On
>> Take Off, I will see Oil temps climb to 210-215 if I keep airspeed up
>> to 120-130 kts. Hottest cyls CHT seem to peak @ 400-405. At altitude
>> oil temps come back to 195 and CHT to 360-380. On our trip back east
>> (ie. cooler temps) we saw oil temps 175-185. I consider my
>> temperatures on the high side, but am worried about overreacting
>> until I get some more experience in some lower temperatures.
>> One approach I have considered is relocating the oil cooler to behind
>> the baffle (#6 likely). Initially I didn't think there was enough
>> room, however I saw an installation on an F1 Rocket
>> http://www.pflanzer-aviation.com/Engine9.html which got me thinking,
>> I borrowed an unmounted oil cooler and did a loose test fit and I
>> think it could be made to work.
>>
>> Deems Davis
>> www.deemsrv10.com
>> N519PJ
>>
>> Carl Froehlich wrote:
>>> <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
>>>
>>> I'll venture into the oil cooler mount/high temp waters with some
>>> thoughts:
>>> 1. There was a good article a few months back in one of the kit
>>> magazines
>>> on cooling air flow into the engine. The bottom line is once the
>>> top of the
>>> cowl (or plenum) is pressurized, the cylinder airflow (lbm/hr) is
>>> fairly
>>> uniform. My take from this is the air coming off the back for the oil
>>> cooler does not affect one side more than the other.
>>> 2. This article also discussed the relatively high pressure area at
>>> the
>>> front top of the cowl caused by air bouncing off the rear baffle. The
>>> lesson learned is make sure the front cowl seal is in good shape.
>>> 3. The third take away from the article is huge gain received from
>>> smoothing the cowl air inlet passages. For the James cowl this is
>>> done by
>>> design. For the Van's cowl this is done by adding the top cowl
>>> inlet ramps.
>>> 4. While the standard Van's mount has clear advantage for installation
>>> ease, I can't see how multiple redirections of air flow can go any
>>> good. I
>>> am not using this standard oil cooler mount in my project.
>>> 5. Talking with others, I get the impression that the mid/aft cowl
>>> region
>>> is a relatively high pressure area. This would contribute to a lower
>>> differential pressure across the oil cooler (in the standard mount)
>>> and thus
>>> lower air flow.
>>> 6. The other heat problem I see are the cabin heat valves. As they
>>> are
>>> shut on hot days, the more than ample heat muff hot air bounces off the
>>> closed valves directly toward the fuel pump. In addition to heating
>>> the
>>> wrong component, I would guess this additional air pressure in the
>>> aft mid
>>> cowl region contributes to the less than adequate differential pressure
>>> across the oil cooler in the standard mount. What I'm doing:
>>> 1. Using the James Cowl and plenum
>>> 2. Mounting the oil cooler aft of the rear baffle with a direct
>>> connection
>>> for air flow. 3. Mounted Cool Mat between the cabin heat valves and
>>> over the top and
>>> front of the valves. The objective is to isolate radiant heat from the
>>> firewall and tunnel and redirect the unused hot air down toward the
>>> bottom
>>> of the cowl.
>>>
>>> Carl Froehlich
>>> RV-8A (500 hrs)
>>> RV-10 (fuselage make it pretty fiberglass work)
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Bibb
>>> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:26 AM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
>>>
>>>
>>> My thought was it would be easier to balance the flow if you didn't
>>> have a
>>> big 3" round exit on one side of the engine. But I'm waiting for the
>>> aerodynamicists to weigh in here...
>>>
>>> Richard Bibb
>>> 972-771-2598
>>> 972-835-5979 mobile
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
>>> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:48 AM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
>>>
>>> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>>>
>>> Like you, my background is in electronics, so my comments may not
>>> help! I don't think the problem is in robbing the available air
>>> from the cylinders, it's finding a balance in the area of entrance
>>> air Vs exit air, and finding a less-obstructed path for the air.
>>> Lopresti was an expert at it, and his son is carrying on the
>>> effort. Look at the size of the holes in some 'certificated' cowls
>>> Vs the Swift Fury or the Lancair. I'll go the plenum route .....
>>> cowl seals leak ..... and I'll use a manometer to try and balance
>>> the pressures. Providing for good exit flows seem to help a lot.
>>> Linn
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard Bibb wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well I wasn't thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just
>>>> deriving the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock
>>>> location but perhaps modified mount to reflect change in air source
>>>> geometry) from a combined induction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is
>>>> to eliminate the source of air for the oil cooer from the rear of
>>>> the baffles (whether inside a plenum or not) as to increase cooling
>>>> air for the cylinders. That creates the problem of creating an air
>>>> source for the cooler. Rather than create a separate inlet I was
>>>> thinking of creating a larger "mouth" on the below-cowl scoop for
>>>> the induction and creating some sort of flow divider to send some
>>>> air to the inlet and some to the cooler.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not being educated in fluid dynamics I'm looking for general
>>>> guidelines as to an efficient method of engineering such an
>>>> inlet/splitter combo.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the warning...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard Bibb
>>>>
>>>> 972-771-2598
>>>>
>>>> 972-835-5979 mobile
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 43
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
[quote="jdriggs49(at)msn.com"]"I installed a small device from Honeywell (sourced
from Allied Electronics) that will allow me to electronically"......could you
be a bit more specific about this device. Sounds like something I need to look
at. Very interesting discussion! Dan
Dan,
The device is the Honeywell DCXL30DS. Here is the spec sheet from Allied..
https://www.alliedelec.com/Images/Products/Datasheets/BM/HONEYWELL_SENSYM_ICT/643-0213.PDF
I plan on capturing the data with a simple USB data logger such as the EL-USB-3
which will provide a time stamp that I hope to link with the glass panel (AFS
4500) flight log info.
http://www.dataq.com/support/documentation/pdf/datasheets/el-data-logger.pdf
When I need to measure the effectiveness of anything (air inlet openings, outlets,
oil cooler, etc) I will connect the tubes to the unit and the logger at the
other end. Any changes I make should be easily measured with this set up.
I could carry a small PC and see the results in real time.
Nick
> Subject: Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
> From: nick@nleonard.com
> Date: Mon C 28 Sep 2009 09:23:36 -0700
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
> This is an interesting discussion. I have a friend (Bob Cole) with an RV-6 that
has done some extensive modifications to his cowling and I plan to follow
in his footsteps. Let me tell you a little about Bob. He couldn't get the performance
that he expected from the Katto prop he had made so he learned about prop
design and manufacturing and made his own. He is on his fourth 'tweak' (prop)
and has it just about what he considers perfect. He decided to build his own
exhaust system so he learned about designing balanced flow exhaust systems
and made his own. He has since made several further modifications to further improve
the performance and keeps working on the next knot of speed C degree of
cooling C etc. In each case he gets a base line measurement of performance before
he makes his changes (they don't all make it better).
>
> So about improving cooling. Bob's approach has been to use an airspeed indicator
to measure the change in the differential air pressure before and after any
airflow modifications. He simply runs the indicator tubes to the front and
back of the testing area C gets a baseline and checks again after the change.
Like many others C he found that reducing the air inlet area on the cowling improved
the air flow through the cowling. Something about air being damned up in
that area when the opening is too large C which is typical of the Van's design.
He also worked on getting the air out more effectively with a ramp on the
back of the cowl. One of the things that made a big difference for him was to
pay special attention on making sure that the seal to the engine baffling was
100% effective (no leaks). It is the simple things that can make the biggest difference.
>
> I saw how much information you can get from the measurement of the differential
pressure (air speed indicator) throughout the engine area that I installed
a small device from Honeywell (sourced from Allied Electronics) that will allow
me to electronically do what Bob has done without having to run the tubes through
the firewall (2-wires). I expect to make various modification to the -10
for cooling efficiency C etc. (not flying yet).
>
> The bottom line to this conversation is that getting more air into the cowling
is often more of a problem than a solution. Also C get a good baseline measurement
before you make any changes. And also to thank the Bob's of the world
for their curiosity C intelligence C gumption and incredible talent.
>
> --------
> Nick Leonard
> RV-10 (40015) Finish
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265331#265331
>
> = Archive Search & Download C 7-Day Browse C Chat C FAQ C
> &g==
>
>
>
>
> Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing now
> > [b]
>
--------
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Finish
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265402#265402
Message 44
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Not N416EC. The number has not been changed on that one, nor has it
been sold. As was mentioned, that's probably the achilles heal of the
RV-10. I recommend that you get a strap or some other safety device
so your number doesn't come up.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:02 PM, David McNeill wrote:
>
>
> I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now
> been changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I
> close the doors and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides,
> when we load and before takeoff.
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
>
> That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the
> weekend and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The
> landing was real firm and the front end was twisted up to the
> firewall.
>
> From: dlm46007@cox.net
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: door
> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
>
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
> Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N
> Missing: N
> Damage: Minor
>
> LOCATION
> City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT,
> LANDED WITHOUT
> INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min:
> 0 Unk:
> # Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min:
> 0 Unk:
> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min:
> 0 Unk:
>
> WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
>
>
> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ronics.com
> ww.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE. See how.
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
>
>
Message 45
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
G'day fellow builders,=0A=0AI am seeking some wise words of advice (or caut
ion) from the pioneers that have gone before me please, just to make sure t
hat I've covered all my bases-before closing the bottom skins.=0A=0ACould
someone please tell me if there-are any prudent things that I should-c
onsider prior to riveting on the bottom wing skins?=0A=0ATo date, I have ro
uted all the wiring through conduits which pass through the ribs; installed
the pitot mast and plumbed the pitot line; installed the pitot heater modu
le; installed the roll servo and I've assembled the aileron trim mechanism.
=0A=0AIs there anything that I may have forgotten to do please, you advice
would be very much appreciated?=0A=0AKind regards from down under.=0A=0APat
rick Pulis=0A#40299--------- VH-XPP=0AAdelaide, South Aus
tralia-=0A=0A=0A ___________________________________________________
_______________________________=0AGet more done like never before with Yaho
o!7 Mail.=0ALearn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/
Message 46
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting
to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
* When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb
out, cruise etc)?
* Was the Van door warning installed
* What kind of door blocks were being used (Van's nylon, Rivethead,
IflyRV10 etc)?
* Were any other "secondary" latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely
not the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door should not
result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - living in f/g hell.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors
and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before
takeoff.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
<http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/emoticons/smile_sad.gif>
_____
From: dlm46007@cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. See how.
<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutor
ial_QuickAdd_062009>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 47
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
I was thinking more enclosed. If the pressure differential isn't great,
exhausting the oil cooler air into the lower cowl just won't have much
air flow. I'm having trouble putting my 'concept' into words! If you
have a plenum over the engine .... with no leaks around the engine .....
all the air coming into the plenum exhausts into the lower cowl. The
pressure differential is the drop across the engine. believe that if
the pressure difference is zero, you have the lowest cooling drag .....
what goes in goes out easily. With the oil cooler fed from the plenum,
and no pressure drop across the engine, then there is no air flow
through the cooler. Ducting the entire oil cooler air into the ramp
next to the opening should have some venturi effect and increase the
negative pressure on the hot air. Does this make any sense??? Have I
gone off into another reality here????
Linn
do not archive
>
> I tried that. ........didn't help
> http://deemsrv10.com/album/Phase1/slides/DSC07522.html
>
> Deems
>
> Linn Walters wrote:
>>
>> I've been interested in the oil cooler thread ...... because I'll be
>> there someday! One other poster measured the pressures across the
>> cooler, but I couldn't find it .... anyway my thoughts were a plenum
>> on the output side to deflect the air towards the lower cowl outlet
>> .... or a dedicated louver ..... instead of just letting it blow
>> into the pressurized lower cowl.
>> Linn
>> do not archive
>> Deems Davis wrote:
Message 48
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Ok here comes my 2 cents. It appears that there could be some type of
design change, better locking longer door pins, longer throw on the pins or
a air dam of some kind that forces the door shut and not let it open with a
air load in or. Has any Lanceairs lost any doors in flight. Looking at
the Cirius doors it is almost impossible to loose on of theirs from the
looks of it.
I think when I get to that point I will have to take a harder look at this
and see if I can build in more safety into this. I do agree that the door
should not come off and cause a major damage or loss of aircraft due to a
door opening.
It is time to put some major brain cells into this issue. I think it will
take more than metal door blocks to really get this resolved.
I am open to any and all ideas.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting
to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
* When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb
out, cruise etc)?
* Was the Van door warning installed
* What kind of door blocks were being used (Van's nylon, Rivethead,
IflyRV10 etc)?
* Were any other "secondary" latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely
not the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door should not
result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - living in f/g hell.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors
and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before
takeoff.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
<http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/emoticons/smile_sad.gif>
_____
From: dlm46007@cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. See how.
<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutor
ial_QuickAdd_062009>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 49
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
I'm using an MPX5050DP in my speed sensitive trim controller and it appears to
be working fine, although not flight tested yet. It's cheaper at $10.34. I read
it with an arduino.
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Freescale-Semiconductor/MPX5050DP/?qs=r8OyiFxb6RdEZ0vCbPdH8w%3d%3d
Since the arduino has plenty of analog ports, i was thinking to hook up a few of
these sensors and get DP readings from multiple locations at the same time.
Lenny
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265410#265410
Message 50
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
In reality there is a pressure differential from the top of the cylinders to
the bottom. Lycoming recommends I think 6" in order to achieve proper
cooling. I don't know of we are seeing that in the 10. More things to
check out.
Gary Specketer
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
I was thinking more enclosed. If the pressure differential isn't great,
exhausting the oil cooler air into the lower cowl just won't have much
air flow. I'm having trouble putting my 'concept' into words! If you
have a plenum over the engine .... with no leaks around the engine .....
all the air coming into the plenum exhausts into the lower cowl. The
pressure differential is the drop across the engine. believe that if
the pressure difference is zero, you have the lowest cooling drag .....
what goes in goes out easily. With the oil cooler fed from the plenum,
and no pressure drop across the engine, then there is no air flow
through the cooler. Ducting the entire oil cooler air into the ramp
next to the opening should have some venturi effect and increase the
negative pressure on the hot air. Does this make any sense??? Have I
gone off into another reality here????
Linn
do not archive
>
> I tried that. ........didn't help
> http://deemsrv10.com/album/Phase1/slides/DSC07522.html
>
> Deems
>
> Linn Walters wrote:
>>
>> I've been interested in the oil cooler thread ...... because I'll be
>> there someday! One other poster measured the pressures across the
>> cooler, but I couldn't find it .... anyway my thoughts were a plenum
>> on the output side to deflect the air towards the lower cowl outlet
>> .... or a dedicated louver ..... instead of just letting it blow
>> into the pressurized lower cowl.
>> Linn
>> do not archive
>> Deems Davis wrote:
Message 51
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Emailing: 2__2_[1] |
I believe this one had the door open in flight?
Message 52
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
Linn
I think you are in the right direction. I would like to see some smoke test
on the cooling air. And really see how the air flows thru the cowl. How
much circles back out the front of the cowl and how much goes thru the
cylinders. It is amazing how much air really comes right back out the
front of the engine and not go thru the cylinders or to the oil coolers. I
bet that if someone could rig a small camera and a smoke tube and then
record the results I bet we would surprised allot.
What do you think Tim.
Also the inlet opening has a lot to do with it also, that's why the round
openings are so affective in getting the press diff up where it needs to be,
it is basically the venturi affect thru the round openings that does that.
It majorly speeds up the air as it passes thru the opening of the cowls.
Anyone have more thoughts on this.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
I was thinking more enclosed. If the pressure differential isn't great,
exhausting the oil cooler air into the lower cowl just won't have much
air flow. I'm having trouble putting my 'concept' into words! If you
have a plenum over the engine .... with no leaks around the engine .....
all the air coming into the plenum exhausts into the lower cowl. The
pressure differential is the drop across the engine. believe that if
the pressure difference is zero, you have the lowest cooling drag .....
what goes in goes out easily. With the oil cooler fed from the plenum,
and no pressure drop across the engine, then there is no air flow
through the cooler. Ducting the entire oil cooler air into the ramp
next to the opening should have some venturi effect and increase the
negative pressure on the hot air. Does this make any sense??? Have I
gone off into another reality here????
Linn
do not archive
>
> I tried that. ........didn't help
> http://deemsrv10.com/album/Phase1/slides/DSC07522.html
>
> Deems
>
> Linn Walters wrote:
>>
>> I've been interested in the oil cooler thread ...... because I'll be
>> there someday! One other poster measured the pressures across the
>> cooler, but I couldn't find it .... anyway my thoughts were a plenum
>> on the output side to deflect the air towards the lower cowl outlet
>> .... or a dedicated louver ..... instead of just letting it blow
>> into the pressurized lower cowl.
>> Linn
>> do not archive
>> Deems Davis wrote:
Message 53
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I disagree that it will take more than metal blocks to solve this. I
switched to the metal blocks and have very solid latch on mine. Connect
the
proximity switch circuit to your EFIS alarm system, and it will scream
at
you when you advance the throttle and don=92t have all 4 pins locked.
The
solution is not difficult or expensive.
Gary Specketer
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:44 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Ok here comes my 2 cents. It appears that there could be some type of
design change, better locking longer door pins, longer throw on the pins
or
a air dam of some kind that forces the door shut and not let it open
with a
air load in or. Has any Lanceairs lost any doors in flight. Looking
at
the Cirius doors it is almost impossible to loose on of theirs from the
looks of it.
I think when I get to that point I will have to take a harder look at
this
and see if I can build in more safety into this. I do agree that the
door
should not come off and cause a major damage or loss of aircraft due to
a
door opening.
It is time to put some major brain cells into this issue. I think it
will
take more than metal door blocks to really get this resolved.
I am open to any and all ideas.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be
interesting
to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
* When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb
out, cruise etc)?
* Was the Van door warning installed
* What kind of door blocks were being used (Van=92s nylon, Rivethead,
IflyRV10 etc)?
* Were any other =93secondary=94 latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are
definitely
not the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door should
not
result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 ' living in f/g hell.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the
doors
and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and
before
takeoff.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the
weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
<http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/emoticons/smile_sad.gif>
_____
From: dlm46007@cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing:
N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE. See how.
<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_
Tutor
ial_QuickAdd_062009>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 54
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
I'm thinking a separate input scoop (not a NACA Vent as they suck at
pressure recovery) feeding a dedicated plenum/duct for the oil cooler with a
dedicated out put duct leading to the exit area of the cowl is what way to
go. At least as far as the oil cooler goes. A P-51 style scoop - that was
why I was suggesting a dual role scoop. Maybe the oil cooler input scoop
needs to be one the side. We need a wind tunnel!
I'm thinking the inlet are the place to start on the cylinder cooling. Of
course the oil has a lot to do with the overall cooling on these engines as
a lot of heat gets carried off to the cooler...
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
I was thinking more enclosed. If the pressure differential isn't great,
exhausting the oil cooler air into the lower cowl just won't have much
air flow. I'm having trouble putting my 'concept' into words! If you
have a plenum over the engine .... with no leaks around the engine .....
all the air coming into the plenum exhausts into the lower cowl. The
pressure differential is the drop across the engine. believe that if
the pressure difference is zero, you have the lowest cooling drag .....
what goes in goes out easily. With the oil cooler fed from the plenum,
and no pressure drop across the engine, then there is no air flow
through the cooler. Ducting the entire oil cooler air into the ramp
next to the opening should have some venturi effect and increase the
negative pressure on the hot air. Does this make any sense??? Have I
gone off into another reality here????
Linn
do not archive
>
> I tried that. ........didn't help
> http://deemsrv10.com/album/Phase1/slides/DSC07522.html
>
> Deems
>
> Linn Walters wrote:
>>
>> I've been interested in the oil cooler thread ...... because I'll be
>> there someday! One other poster measured the pressures across the
>> cooler, but I couldn't find it .... anyway my thoughts were a plenum
>> on the output side to deflect the air towards the lower cowl outlet
>> .... or a dedicated louver ..... instead of just letting it blow
>> into the pressurized lower cowl.
>> Linn
>> do not archive
>> Deems Davis wrote:
Message 55
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: James plenum question |
Thanks Deems! That's what I was looking for. Where did you get that Y splitter
from?
Lenny
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265415#265415
Message 56
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
What do I think? ;). I think if you're gonna fix a problem, you should
have someone WITH the problem do the fixing. ;) I'm happy how it is.
Tim
On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:52 PM, "John Cumins" <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>
> Linn
>
> I think you are in the right direction. I would like to see some
> smoke test
> on the cooling air. And really see how the air flows thru the
> cowl. How
> much circles back out the front of the cowl and how much goes thru the
> cylinders. It is amazing how much air really comes right back out
> the
> front of the engine and not go thru the cylinders or to the oil
> coolers. I
> bet that if someone could rig a small camera and a smoke tube and then
> record the results I bet we would surprised allot.
>
> What do you think Tim.
>
> Also the inlet opening has a lot to do with it also, that's why the
> round
> openings are so affective in getting the press diff up where it
> needs to be,
> it is basically the venturi affect thru the round openings that does
> that.
> It majorly speeds up the air as it passes thru the opening of the
> cowls.
>
> Anyone have more thoughts on this.
>
> John G. Cumins
> President
>
> JC'S Interactive Systems
> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
> Fairfield Ca 94533
> 707-425-7100
> 707-425-7576 Fax
>
> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn
> Walters
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:29 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
>
> >
>
> I was thinking more enclosed. If the pressure differential isn't
> great,
> exhausting the oil cooler air into the lower cowl just won't have much
> air flow. I'm having trouble putting my 'concept' into words! If you
> have a plenum over the engine .... with no leaks around the
> engine .....
> all the air coming into the plenum exhausts into the lower cowl. The
> pressure differential is the drop across the engine. believe that
> if
> the pressure difference is zero, you have the lowest cooling
> drag .....
> what goes in goes out easily. With the oil cooler fed from the
> plenum,
> and no pressure drop across the engine, then there is no air flow
> through the cooler. Ducting the entire oil cooler air into the ramp
> next to the opening should have some venturi effect and increase the
> negative pressure on the hot air. Does this make any sense??? Have I
> gone off into another reality here????
> Linn
> do not archive
>
>>
>> I tried that. ........didn't help
>> http://deemsrv10.com/album/Phase1/slides/DSC07522.html
>>
>> Deems
>>
>> Linn Walters wrote:
>>> >
>>>
>>> I've been interested in the oil cooler thread ...... because I'll be
>>> there someday! One other poster measured the pressures across the
>>> cooler, but I couldn't find it .... anyway my thoughts were a plenum
>>> on the output side to deflect the air towards the lower cowl outlet
>>> .... or a dedicated louver ..... instead of just letting it blow
>>> into the pressurized lower cowl.
>>> Linn
>>> do not archive
>>> Deems Davis wrote:
>
>
Message 57
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
Deems
Did the new louvers work on the cowl. How much did you see of a difference
in cooling numbers?
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
I tried that. ........didn't help
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Phase1/slides/DSC07522.html
Deems
Linn Walters wrote:
>
> I've been interested in the oil cooler thread ...... because I'll be
> there someday! One other poster measured the pressures across the
> cooler, but I couldn't find it .... anyway my thoughts were a plenum
> on the output side to deflect the air towards the lower cowl outlet
> .... or a dedicated louver ..... instead of just letting it blow
> into the pressurized lower cowl.
> Linn
> do not archive
> Deems Davis wrote:
>>
>> This is a familiar topic. ;-) I have the James
>> cowl/Plenum, Live in AZ and have to deal with heat issues (Today's
>> high will reach 107!). I have been through several machinations in an
>> attempt to deal with heat. Ton's of louvers on bottom of cowl,
>> increasing the lower cowl exit area 5-10%. Plenum rework, baffle
>> sealing. I still have the oil cooler mounted in the stock (Van's)
>> location. My current temps are 'manageable'. Everything is linked
>> directly to OAT, the cooler the better. With OAT of approx 90-95, On
>> Take Off, I will see Oil temps climb to 210-215 if I keep airspeed up
>> to 120-130 kts. Hottest cyls CHT seem to peak @ 400-405. At altitude
>> oil temps come back to 195 and CHT to 360-380. On our trip back east
>> (ie. cooler temps) we saw oil temps 175-185. I consider my
>> temperatures on the high side, but am worried about overreacting
>> until I get some more experience in some lower temperatures.
>> One approach I have considered is relocating the oil cooler to behind
>> the baffle (#6 likely). Initially I didn't think there was enough
>> room, however I saw an installation on an F1 Rocket
>> http://www.pflanzer-aviation.com/Engine9.html which got me thinking,
>> I borrowed an unmounted oil cooler and did a loose test fit and I
>> think it could be made to work.
>>
>> Deems Davis
>> www.deemsrv10.com
>> N519PJ
>>
>> Carl Froehlich wrote:
>>> <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
>>>
>>> I'll venture into the oil cooler mount/high temp waters with some
>>> thoughts:
>>> 1. There was a good article a few months back in one of the kit
>>> magazines
>>> on cooling air flow into the engine. The bottom line is once the
>>> top of the
>>> cowl (or plenum) is pressurized, the cylinder airflow (lbm/hr) is
>>> fairly
>>> uniform. My take from this is the air coming off the back for the oil
>>> cooler does not affect one side more than the other.
>>> 2. This article also discussed the relatively high pressure area at
>>> the
>>> front top of the cowl caused by air bouncing off the rear baffle. The
>>> lesson learned is make sure the front cowl seal is in good shape.
>>> 3. The third take away from the article is huge gain received from
>>> smoothing the cowl air inlet passages. For the James cowl this is
>>> done by
>>> design. For the Van's cowl this is done by adding the top cowl
>>> inlet ramps.
>>> 4. While the standard Van's mount has clear advantage for installation
>>> ease, I can't see how multiple redirections of air flow can go any
>>> good. I
>>> am not using this standard oil cooler mount in my project.
>>> 5. Talking with others, I get the impression that the mid/aft cowl
>>> region
>>> is a relatively high pressure area. This would contribute to a lower
>>> differential pressure across the oil cooler (in the standard mount)
>>> and thus
>>> lower air flow.
>>> 6. The other heat problem I see are the cabin heat valves. As they
>>> are
>>> shut on hot days, the more than ample heat muff hot air bounces off the
>>> closed valves directly toward the fuel pump. In addition to heating
>>> the
>>> wrong component, I would guess this additional air pressure in the
>>> aft mid
>>> cowl region contributes to the less than adequate differential pressure
>>> across the oil cooler in the standard mount. What I'm doing:
>>> 1. Using the James Cowl and plenum
>>> 2. Mounting the oil cooler aft of the rear baffle with a direct
>>> connection
>>> for air flow. 3. Mounted Cool Mat between the cabin heat valves and
>>> over the top and
>>> front of the valves. The objective is to isolate radiant heat from the
>>> firewall and tunnel and redirect the unused hot air down toward the
>>> bottom
>>> of the cowl.
>>>
>>> Carl Froehlich
>>> RV-8A (500 hrs)
>>> RV-10 (fuselage make it pretty fiberglass work)
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Bibb
>>> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:26 AM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
>>>
>>>
>>> My thought was it would be easier to balance the flow if you didn't
>>> have a
>>> big 3" round exit on one side of the engine. But I'm waiting for the
>>> aerodynamicists to weigh in here...
>>>
>>> Richard Bibb
>>> 972-771-2598
>>> 972-835-5979 mobile
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
>>> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:48 AM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
>>>
>>> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>>>
>>> Like you, my background is in electronics, so my comments may not
>>> help! I don't think the problem is in robbing the available air
>>> from the cylinders, it's finding a balance in the area of entrance
>>> air Vs exit air, and finding a less-obstructed path for the air.
>>> Lopresti was an expert at it, and his son is carrying on the
>>> effort. Look at the size of the holes in some 'certificated' cowls
>>> Vs the Swift Fury or the Lancair. I'll go the plenum route .....
>>> cowl seals leak ..... and I'll use a manometer to try and balance
>>> the pressures. Providing for good exit flows seem to help a lot.
>>> Linn
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard Bibb wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well I wasn't thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just
>>>> deriving the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock
>>>> location but perhaps modified mount to reflect change in air source
>>>> geometry) from a combined induction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is
>>>> to eliminate the source of air for the oil cooer from the rear of
>>>> the baffles (whether inside a plenum or not) as to increase cooling
>>>> air for the cylinders. That creates the problem of creating an air
>>>> source for the cooler. Rather than create a separate inlet I was
>>>> thinking of creating a larger "mouth" on the below-cowl scoop for
>>>> the induction and creating some sort of flow divider to send some
>>>> air to the inlet and some to the cooler.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not being educated in fluid dynamics I'm looking for general
>>>> guidelines as to an efficient method of engineering such an
>>>> inlet/splitter combo.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the warning...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard Bibb
>>>>
>>>> 972-771-2598
>>>>
>>>> 972-835-5979 mobile
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 58
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
More 2 cents.Remember to make sure the door pins go all the way through the
upright F-1005 and F-1042. I have mine such that there is solid pin (with no
taper) engaged in the hole in these uprights. That is a lot of strength in
shear with this, so as long as the door and latch is closed properly it is
not going anywhere. Now if the door can flex in the middle thereby pulling
those out such as if the cabin were pressurized that could be a problem.
-Chris
#40072
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:54 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
I disagree that it will take more than metal blocks to solve this. I
switched to the metal blocks and have very solid latch on mine. Connect the
proximity switch circuit to your EFIS alarm system, and it will scream at
you when you advance the throttle and don't have all 4 pins locked. The
solution is not difficult or expensive.
Gary Specketer
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:44 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Ok here comes my 2 cents. It appears that there could be some type of
design change, better locking longer door pins, longer throw on the pins or
a air dam of some kind that forces the door shut and not let it open with a
air load in or. Has any Lanceairs lost any doors in flight. Looking at
the Cirius doors it is almost impossible to loose on of theirs from the
looks of it.
I think when I get to that point I will have to take a harder look at this
and see if I can build in more safety into this. I do agree that the door
should not come off and cause a major damage or loss of aircraft due to a
door opening.
It is time to put some major brain cells into this issue. I think it will
take more than metal door blocks to really get this resolved.
I am open to any and all ideas.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting
to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
* When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb
out, cruise etc)?
* Was the Van door warning installed
* What kind of door blocks were being used (Van's nylon, Rivethead,
IflyRV10 etc)?
* Were any other "secondary" latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely
not the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door should not
result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - living in f/g hell.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors
and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before
takeoff.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
<http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/emoticons/smile_sad.gif>
_____
From: dlm46007@cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. See how.
<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutor
ial_QuickAdd_062009>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 59
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
[quote="speckter(at)comcast.net"]I disagree that it will take more than metal blocks
to solve this. I switched to the metal blocks and have very solid latch
on mine. Connect the proximity switch circuit to your EFIS alarm system, and
it will scream at you when you advance the throttle and dont have all 4 pins
locked. The solution is not difficult or expensive.
Gary Specketer
I agree,
I have the Door Guides and Pins and have been flying my RV10 for a year now without
a problem. I have redundant warning switches in my setup. One reed switch
is for the DOOR LIGHT warning on the instrument panel. The other is for
the Garmin 900X which gives a DOOR OPEN warning above 1800RPM. Plus, in my checklist,
when it comes to "DOORS CLOSED and LOCKED" the Pilot is required to
physically check both doors closed and locked. Triple checks!
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265423#265423
Message 60
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: James plenum question |
I believe I got it from Aircraft Spruce.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ep/engineaccessories_connectors.html
Deems
Lenny Iszak wrote:
>
> Thanks Deems! That's what I was looking for. Where did you get that Y splitter
from?
>
> Lenny
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265415#265415
>
>
>
Message 61
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I asked my local design engineer to review the door design and consider an
"ultimate" solution to these concerns. His reply would probably work but I
may not adopt it. His solution: (a) tie a piece of safety wire on the do
or handle=3B (b) run it under the passenger seat=3B (c) wrap around both te
sticles.
You won't ever forget to check the pins are engaged. On the rare chance you
do forget and the door departs the aircraft=2C you won't be focused on tha
t particular problem.
If this violates the decorum of the Matronics rules of the road. I hereby a
pply for a pardon.
From: toaster73@embarqmail.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
More 2 cents=85Remember to make sure the door pins go all the way through t
he upright F-1005 and F-1042. I have mine such that there is solid pin (wit
h no taper) engaged in the hole in these uprights. That is a lot of strengt
h in shear with this=2C so as long as the door and latch is closed properly
it is not going anywhere. Now if the door can flex in the middle thereby p
ulling those out such as if the cabin were pressurized that could be a prob
lem.
-Chris
#40072
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Monday=2C September 28=2C 2009 6:54 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
I disagree that it will take more than metal blocks to solve this. I switc
hed to the metal blocks and have very solid latch on mine. Connect the pro
ximity switch circuit to your EFIS alarm system=2C and it will scream at yo
u when you advance the throttle and don=92t have all 4 pins locked. The so
lution is not difficult or expensive.
Gary Specketer
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Monday=2C September 28=2C 2009 6:44 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Ok here comes my 2 cents. It appears that there could be some type of desi
gn change=2C better locking longer door pins=2C longer throw on the pins or
a air dam of some kind that forces the door shut and not let it open with
a air load in or. Has any Lanceairs lost any doors in flight. Looking at
the Cirius doors it is almost impossible to loose on of theirs from the lo
oks of it.
I think when I get to that point I will have to take a harder look at this
and see if I can build in more safety into this. I do agree that the door
should not come off and cause a major damage or loss of aircraft due to a d
oor opening.
It is time to put some major brain cells into this issue. I think it will t
ake more than metal door blocks to really get this resolved.
I am open to any and all ideas.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday=2C September 28=2C 2009 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting
to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff=2C during climb out=2C c
ruise etc)?
Was the Van door warning installed
What kind of door blocks were being used (Van=92s nylon=2C Rivethead=2C Ifl
yRV10 etc)?
Were any other =93secondary=94 latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely n
ot the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway=2C in my not so humble opinion=2C an improperly unlatched door shoul
d not result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 ' living in f/g hell.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC=3B I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors
and check the pins both fore and aft=2C both sides=2C when we load and befo
re takeoff.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday=2C September 28=2C 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real f
irm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
From: dlm46007@cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF=2C PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT=2C LANDED W
ITHOUT
INCIDENT=2C JEFFERSON CITY=2C MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk
:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk
:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk
:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995 ttp://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?RV10-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE. See how. href="
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics
.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com
/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator
?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.c
om http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigat
or?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
Message 62
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
It's hard to say, I put several sets of louvers on the bottom of the cowl :
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Phase1/slides/DSC07560.html
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Phase1/slides/DSC07583.html
With differences in OAT on the before and after days. The benefit, if
any was small (i.e. a couple of degrees and not 10-15 degs). Bill Genero
@ Airflow systems, says that the optimum place to install them is on the
sides of the lower cowl. Since That would interferre with my paint, i
was reluctant to do that.
Deems
John Cumins wrote:
>
> Deems
>
> Did the new louvers work on the cowl. How much did you see of a difference
> in cooling numbers?
>
> John G. Cumins
> President
>
> JC'S Interactive Systems
> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
> Fairfield Ca 94533
> 707-425-7100
> 707-425-7576 Fax
>
> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 2:57 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
>
>
> I tried that. ........didn't help
> http://deemsrv10.com/album/Phase1/slides/DSC07522.html
>
> Deems
>
> Linn Walters wrote:
>
>>
>> I've been interested in the oil cooler thread ...... because I'll be
>> there someday! One other poster measured the pressures across the
>> cooler, but I couldn't find it .... anyway my thoughts were a plenum
>> on the output side to deflect the air towards the lower cowl outlet
>> .... or a dedicated louver ..... instead of just letting it blow
>> into the pressurized lower cowl.
>> Linn
>> do not archive
>> Deems Davis wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This is a familiar topic. ;-) I have the James
>>> cowl/Plenum, Live in AZ and have to deal with heat issues (Today's
>>> high will reach 107!). I have been through several machinations in an
>>> attempt to deal with heat. Ton's of louvers on bottom of cowl,
>>> increasing the lower cowl exit area 5-10%. Plenum rework, baffle
>>> sealing. I still have the oil cooler mounted in the stock (Van's)
>>> location. My current temps are 'manageable'. Everything is linked
>>> directly to OAT, the cooler the better. With OAT of approx 90-95, On
>>> Take Off, I will see Oil temps climb to 210-215 if I keep airspeed up
>>> to 120-130 kts. Hottest cyls CHT seem to peak @ 400-405. At altitude
>>> oil temps come back to 195 and CHT to 360-380. On our trip back east
>>> (ie. cooler temps) we saw oil temps 175-185. I consider my
>>> temperatures on the high side, but am worried about overreacting
>>> until I get some more experience in some lower temperatures.
>>> One approach I have considered is relocating the oil cooler to behind
>>> the baffle (#6 likely). Initially I didn't think there was enough
>>> room, however I saw an installation on an F1 Rocket
>>> http://www.pflanzer-aviation.com/Engine9.html which got me thinking,
>>> I borrowed an unmounted oil cooler and did a loose test fit and I
>>> think it could be made to work.
>>>
>>> Deems Davis
>>> www.deemsrv10.com
>>> N519PJ
>>>
>>> Carl Froehlich wrote:
>>>
>>>> <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
>>>>
>>>> I'll venture into the oil cooler mount/high temp waters with some
>>>> thoughts:
>>>> 1. There was a good article a few months back in one of the kit
>>>> magazines
>>>> on cooling air flow into the engine. The bottom line is once the
>>>> top of the
>>>> cowl (or plenum) is pressurized, the cylinder airflow (lbm/hr) is
>>>> fairly
>>>> uniform. My take from this is the air coming off the back for the oil
>>>> cooler does not affect one side more than the other.
>>>> 2. This article also discussed the relatively high pressure area at
>>>> the
>>>> front top of the cowl caused by air bouncing off the rear baffle. The
>>>> lesson learned is make sure the front cowl seal is in good shape.
>>>> 3. The third take away from the article is huge gain received from
>>>> smoothing the cowl air inlet passages. For the James cowl this is
>>>> done by
>>>> design. For the Van's cowl this is done by adding the top cowl
>>>> inlet ramps.
>>>> 4. While the standard Van's mount has clear advantage for installation
>>>> ease, I can't see how multiple redirections of air flow can go any
>>>> good. I
>>>> am not using this standard oil cooler mount in my project.
>>>> 5. Talking with others, I get the impression that the mid/aft cowl
>>>> region
>>>> is a relatively high pressure area. This would contribute to a lower
>>>> differential pressure across the oil cooler (in the standard mount)
>>>> and thus
>>>> lower air flow.
>>>> 6. The other heat problem I see are the cabin heat valves. As they
>>>> are
>>>> shut on hot days, the more than ample heat muff hot air bounces off the
>>>> closed valves directly toward the fuel pump. In addition to heating
>>>> the
>>>> wrong component, I would guess this additional air pressure in the
>>>> aft mid
>>>> cowl region contributes to the less than adequate differential pressure
>>>> across the oil cooler in the standard mount. What I'm doing:
>>>> 1. Using the James Cowl and plenum
>>>> 2. Mounting the oil cooler aft of the rear baffle with a direct
>>>> connection
>>>> for air flow. 3. Mounted Cool Mat between the cabin heat valves and
>>>> over the top and
>>>> front of the valves. The objective is to isolate radiant heat from the
>>>> firewall and tunnel and redirect the unused hot air down toward the
>>>> bottom
>>>> of the cowl.
>>>>
>>>> Carl Froehlich
>>>> RV-8A (500 hrs)
>>>> RV-10 (fuselage make it pretty fiberglass work)
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Bibb
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:26 AM
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My thought was it would be easier to balance the flow if you didn't
>>>> have a
>>>> big 3" round exit on one side of the engine. But I'm waiting for the
>>>> aerodynamicists to weigh in here...
>>>>
>>>> Richard Bibb
>>>> 972-771-2598
>>>> 972-835-5979 mobile
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:48 AM
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
>>>>
>>>> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>>>>
>>>> Like you, my background is in electronics, so my comments may not
>>>> help! I don't think the problem is in robbing the available air
>>>> from the cylinders, it's finding a balance in the area of entrance
>>>> air Vs exit air, and finding a less-obstructed path for the air.
>>>> Lopresti was an expert at it, and his son is carrying on the
>>>> effort. Look at the size of the holes in some 'certificated' cowls
>>>> Vs the Swift Fury or the Lancair. I'll go the plenum route .....
>>>> cowl seals leak ..... and I'll use a manometer to try and balance
>>>> the pressures. Providing for good exit flows seem to help a lot.
>>>> Linn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard Bibb wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Well I wasn't thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just
>>>>> deriving the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock
>>>>> location but perhaps modified mount to reflect change in air source
>>>>> geometry) from a combined induction/oil cooler inlet. The idea is
>>>>> to eliminate the source of air for the oil cooer from the rear of
>>>>> the baffles (whether inside a plenum or not) as to increase cooling
>>>>> air for the cylinders. That creates the problem of creating an air
>>>>> source for the cooler. Rather than create a separate inlet I was
>>>>> thinking of creating a larger "mouth" on the below-cowl scoop for
>>>>> the induction and creating some sort of flow divider to send some
>>>>> air to the inlet and some to the cooler.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not being educated in fluid dynamics I'm looking for general
>>>>> guidelines as to an efficient method of engineering such an
>>>>> inlet/splitter combo.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the warning...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard Bibb
>>>>>
>>>>> 972-771-2598
>>>>>
>>>>> 972-835-5979 mobile
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 63
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: James plenum question |
Duh... should have checked first. Thanks!
Lenny
Deems Davis wrote:
> I believe I got it from Aircraft Spruce.
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ep/engineaccessories_connectors.html
>
> Deems
>
> Lenny Iszak wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks Deems! That's what I was looking for. Where did you get that Y splitter
from?
> >
> > Lenny
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 65415#265415
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265433#265433
Message 64
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Guys,
On my doors, when the stock Van's handle locks down, both locking pins
go THROUGH the phenolic guides and are firmly through metal frame.
The phenolic blocks are not designed to hold the door close, merely to
guide the locking pin through the metal!
I have warning lights on the aft pins - if the pin does not go through
the metal hole, the light does not get turned off.
And part of the before takeoff checklist is to ensure that the handle
is locked into position and that you cannot push out on the door.
You must make this check a slow, methodical check every takeoff and
not trust your seat-mate to do it correctly.
grumpy
N184JM
On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:21 PM, Les Kearney wrote:
> Hi
>
> These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be
> interesting to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
>
> When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb
> out, cruise etc)?
> Was the Van door warning installed
> What kind of door blocks were being used (Van=92s nylon, Rivethead,
> IflyRV10 etc)?
> Were any other =93secondary=94 latches / straps etc being used?
>
> The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are
> definitely not the way to go when installing doors.
>
> Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door
> should not result in a near death experience in a light single.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> #40643 ' living in f/g hell.
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-serve
r@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of David McNeill
> Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
>
>
> I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now
> been changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I
> close the doors and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides,
> when we load and before takeoff.
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-serve
r@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
>
> That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the
> weekend and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The
> landing was real firm and the front end was twisted up to the
> firewall.
>
> From: dlm46007@cox.net
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: door
> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
>
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
> Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N
> Missing: N
> Damage: Minor
>
> LOCATION
> City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT,
> LANDED WITHOUT
> INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min:
> 0 Unk:
> # Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min:
> 0 Unk:
> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min:
> 0 Unk:
>
> WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
>
>
> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ronics.com
> ww.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE. See how.
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
>
>
Message 65
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: James plenum question |
Vans sells the y also.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: James plenum question
I believe I got it from Aircraft Spruce.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ep/engineaccessories_connectors.html
Deems
Lenny Iszak wrote:
>
> Thanks Deems! That's what I was looking for. Where did you get that Y
splitter from?
>
> Lenny
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265415#265415
>
>
>
Message 66
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Mine do the same, when the reed switches were rigged sp
ecial care was taken to make the light indicators very
sensitive. If you rotate my door handles towards the open
position the lights come on with about 10 degrees of
motion...well in advance of the over center position...Ano
ther reminder is when flying alone double check the passe
nger door...assuming it is locked and secure could be a
big risk...Question... I have door key locks....what do
most of you do when flying solo? Lock the doors or ju
st close the handle.
Rick Sked
N246RS
Looking forward to LOE
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
Message 67
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
I ran a nylon fish tape out through the conduits (2) on each wing for later wiring
or maintenance. Fast- cheap- light. Who knows what kind of gadgets will be
available in 3-5 years
--------
OSH '10 or Bust
Q/B Kit - phase 1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265439#265439
Message 68
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Mike
Your engineer friend has, as engineers often do, failed to understand the
real problem and thereby design the correct solution. Implementation of this
solution would, at some point, result in recognition that he has designed a
"detective control" rather than a "preventative control". Even at that, it
is still inadequate as it would only be effective for pilots of the male
persuasion.
..Les
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roxanne and Mike
Lefever
Sent: September-28-09 5:46 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
I asked my local design engineer to review the door design and consider an
"ultimate" solution to these concerns. His reply would probably work but I
may not adopt it. His solution: (a) tie a piece of safety wire on the door
handle; (b) run it under the passenger seat; (c) wrap around both testicles.
You won't ever forget to check the pins are engaged. On the rare chance you
do forget and the door departs the aircraft, you won't be focused on that
particular problem.
If this violates the decorum of the Matronics rules of the road. I hereby
apply for a pardon.
_____
From: toaster73@embarqmail.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
More 2 cents.Remember to make sure the door pins go all the way through the
upright F-1005 and F-1042. I have mine such that there is solid pin (with no
taper) engaged in the hole in these uprights. That is a lot of strength in
shear with this, so as long as the door and latch is closed properly it is
not going anywhere. Now if the door can flex in the middle thereby pulling
those out such as if the cabin were pressurized that could be a problem.
-Chris
#40072
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:54 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
I disagree that it will take more than metal blocks to solve this. I
switched to the metal blocks and have very solid latch on mine. Connect the
proximity switch circuit to your EFIS alarm system, and it will scream at
you when you advance the throttle and don't have all 4 pins locked. The
solution is not difficult or expensive.
Gary Specketer
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cumins
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:44 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Ok here comes my 2 cents. It appears that there could be some type of
design change, better locking longer door pins, longer throw on the pins or
a air dam of some kind that forces the door shut and not let it open with a
air load in or. Has any Lanceairs lost any doors in flight. Looking at
the Cirius doors it is almost impossible to loose on of theirs from the
looks of it.
I think when I get to that point I will have to take a harder look at this
and see if I can build in more safety into this. I do agree that the door
should not come off and cause a major damage or loss of aircraft due to a
door opening.
It is time to put some major brain cells into this issue. I think it will
take more than metal door blocks to really get this resolved.
I am open to any and all ideas.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Hi
These door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interesting
to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
* When did the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb
out, cruise etc)?
* Was the Van door warning installed
* What kind of door blocks were being used (Van's nylon, Rivethead,
IflyRV10 etc)?
* Were any other "secondary" latches / straps etc being used?
The 416EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely
not the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion, an improperly unlatched door should not
result in a near death experience in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - living in f/g hell.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: September-28-09 3:03 PM
Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors
and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before
takeoff.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
<http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/emoticons/smile_sad.gif>
_____
From: dlm46007@cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. See
<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutor
ial_QuickAdd_062009> how.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
Message 69
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I do not lock the doors when flying solo. Don't want to hinder
emergency evacuation.
grumpy
do not archive
On Sep 28, 2009, at 7:29 PM, ricksked@embarqmail.com wrote:
> Mine do the same, when the reed switches were rigged special care
> was taken to make the light indicators very sensitive. If you rotate
> my door handles towards the open position the lights come on with
> about 10 degrees of motion...well in advance of the over center
> position...Another reminder is when flying alone double check the
> passenger door...assuming it is locked and secure could be a big
> risk...Question... I have door key locks....what do most of you do
> when flying solo? Lock the doors or just close the handle.
>
> Rick Sked
> N246RS
> Looking forward to LOE
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
>
> From: Miller John
> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:07:04 -0500
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
>
> Guys,
>
> On my doors,= when the stock Van's handle locks down, both locking
> pins go THROUGH the= phenolic guides and are firmly through metal
> frame. The phenolic bl= ocks are not designed to hold the door
> close, merely to guide the locking= pin through the metal!
>
> I have warning lights on= the aft pins - if the pin does not go
> through the metal hole, the light= does not get turned off.
>
> And part of the before= takeoff checklist is to ensure that the
> handle is locked into position an= d that you cannot push out on the
> door.
>
> You must= make this check a slow, methodical check every takeoff and
> not trust your= seat-mate to do it correctly.
>
> grumpy
> N= 184JM
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:21 PM,= Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Hi
> <= o:p>
> T= hese door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be
> interesting= to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
>
> When did= the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb
> out, cruise etc)?
> Was the Van door warning installed
> What kind of door= blocks were being used (Van=92s nylon, Rivethead,
> IflyRV10 etc)?
> &= nbsp;
> The 41= 6EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are
> definitely not&nbs= p;the way to go when installing doors.
>
> Anyway, in my not so humble opinion,= an improperly unlatched door
> should not result in a near death experience= in a light single.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> #40643 ' living in f/g hell.
>
> <= div>
> <= /font>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@ma= tronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com=
> ] On Behalf Of <= /span>David McNeill
> S= ent: Septembe= r-28-09 3:03 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
> <= /div>
>
>
> I believe yo= u may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has
> now been changed and= the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I
> close the doors and check= the pins both fore and aft, both sides,
> when we load and before takeoff.<= /span>
>
> Fr= om: owner-rv10-li= st-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matro=
> nics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
> To: =rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List:= door
>
> That kinda sucks! I've been working= on the door latches over the
> weekend and thinking about the last time I= saw this happen. The
> landing was real firm and the front end was twisted= up to the
> firewall.
>
> From: dlm46007@cox.net
> To: rv10= -list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: door
> Da= te: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
>
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 78MU &nbs= p; Make/Model: EXP &n= bsp;
> Description: RV-10
> Date: 09/26/2009 = Time: 1827
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury:= None Mid Air: N
> Missing: N
> &= nbsp; Damage: Minor
>
> LOCATION
> City: J= EFFERSON CITY State: MO Cou= ntry: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR= SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT,
> LANDED WITHOUT
> INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY<= /st1:city>, MO
>
> INJURY DATA &nbs= p; Total Fatal: 0
> = ; # Crew= : 1 Fat: 0 &nbs= p; Ser:
> 0 Min: 0&nbs= p; Unk:
> &n= bsp; # Pass: 1 = Fat: 0 Ser: &n= bsp;
> 0 Min: 0 = Unk:
> &nbs= p; # Grnd: &nbs= p; Fat: 0 Ser:
> 0&nbs= p; Min: 0 Unk:
>
> WEA= THER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
>
> <= o:p>
>
> ttp://www.matronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ronics.com
> ww.matronics.com/contribution
> = <= /span>
> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.= See how.
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> <= /o:p>
> h= ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://w= ww.matronics.com/c
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> <= /font>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =======================
> ============ yle="color: blue; text-
> decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com= /Navigator?RV10-
> List
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =======================
> ============ e; text-decoration: underline;
> ">http://forums.matronics.com
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =======================
> ============ color: blue; text-decoration:
> underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contri= bution
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =======================
> ===========
>
>
>
>
> _-
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D======================
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D======================
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D======================
> contribution _-
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> =
> 3D
> ======================
Message 70
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Screw length for cowl closeout pins |
On page 47-7, there is a callout reference in step 12 to Figure 7, for the small
plate that holds the top cowl pins in place. On my plans figure 7 has NO listing
for the screw size. :(
I know it's a flat head counter sunk #6, but HOW LONG should it be?
Anyone have a more recent plans set that shows the screw size?
Phil #40220 fitting 53" long cowl over 20B rotary
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265450#265450
Message 71
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
Thanks, but I'm all 'gadgetted out' I think.- Is it true, he who has the
most toys wins?=0A=0ADo Not Archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________________________
_______=0AFrom: AirMike <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.co
m=0ASent: Tuesday, 29 September, 2009 10:29:53 AM=0ASubject: RV10-List: Re:
"AirMike" <Mikeabel@Pacbell.net>=0A=0AI ran a nylon fish tape out through t
he conduits (2) on each wing for later wiring or maintenance. Fast- cheap-
light. Who knows what kind of gadgets will be available in 3-5 years=0A=0A-
-------=0AOSH '10 or Bust =0AQ/B Kit - phase 1=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topi
c online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265439#26
======================0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________
__________=0AGet more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail.=0ALearn mor
e: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/
Message 72
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
N416EC had the reed switches installed as well and it took no more
than10 degrees of motion before the light came on. The problem is
that in less than 10 degrees, unless your hand is firmly gripping the
door handle, it can (and will) come open due to the pressures acting
upon it. Just checking that the lights are off and the handle in the
locked position, IMHO, is not enough. No offense, but having flown
over a year with no mishap is not an indication of a safe system, but
rather possibly a cause to get careless. I would not consider a
latching mechanism that does not have a good length of rod passing
through (not just nesting into) a structural metal part, as I
understand is a feature of one of the aftermarket options. I want as
much rod through a solid base as possible, in case the handle latch
does decide to break lose in flight (It can happen. Ask me how I
know!). A strap, as I have mentioned before, is the easiest way I can
imagine to safety the door. It also allows for some air conditioning
during taxi without needing a hand on the handle.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation
jesse@saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 28, 2009, at 8:29 PM, ricksked@embarqmail.com wrote:
> Mine do the same, when the reed switches were rigged special care
> was taken to make the light indicators very sensitive. If you rotate
> my door handles towards the open position the lights come on with
> about 10 degrees of motion...well in advance of the over center
> position...Another reminder is when flying alone double check the
> passenger door...assuming it is locked and secure could be a big
> risk...Question... I have door key locks....what do most of you do
> when flying solo? Lock the doors or just close the handle.
>
> Rick Sked
> N246RS
> Looking forward to LOE
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> From: Miller John
> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:07:04 -0500
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
> Guys,
>
> On my doors,= when the stock Van's handle locks down, both locking
> pins go THROUGH the= phenolic guides and are firmly through metal
> frame. The phenolic bl= ocks are not designed to hold the door
> close, merely to guide the locking= pin through the metal!
>
> I have warning lights on= the aft pins - if the pin does not go
> through the metal hole, the light= does not get turned off.
>
> And part of the before= takeoff checklist is to ensure that the
> handle is locked into position an= d that you cannot push out on the
> door.
>
> You must= make this check a slow, methodical check every takeoff and
> not trust your= seat-mate to do it correctly.
>
> grumpy
> N= 184JM
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:21 PM,= Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Hi
> <= o:p>
> T= hese door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be
> interesting= to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
>
> When did= the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb
> out, cruise etc)?
> Was the Van door warning installed
> What kind of door= blocks were being used (Van=92s nylon, Rivethead,
> IflyRV10 etc)?
> &= nbsp;
> The 41= 6EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are
> definitely not&nbs= p;the way to go when installing doors.
>
> Anyway, in my not so humble opinion,= an improperly unlatched door
> should not result in a near death experience= in a light single.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> #40643 ' living in f/g hell.
>
> <= div>
> <= /font>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@ma= tronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com= ] On Behalf Of <= /span>David McNeill
> S= ent: Septembe= r-28-09 3:03 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
> <= /div>
>
>
> I believe yo= u may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has
> now been changed and= the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I
> close the doors and check= the pins both fore and aft, both sides,
> when we load and before takeoff.<= /span>
>
> Fr= om: owner-rv10-li= st-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-
> list-server@matro= nics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
> To: =rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List:= door
>
> That kinda sucks! I've been working= on the door latches over the
> weekend and thinking about the last time I= saw this happen. The
> landing was real firm and the front end was twisted= up to the
> firewall.
>
> From: dlm46007@cox.net
> To: rv10= -list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: door
> Da= te: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
>
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 78MU &nbs= p; Make/Model: EXP &n= bsp;
> Description: RV-10
> Date: 09/26/2009 = Time: 1827
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury:= None Mid Air: N
> Missing: N
> &= nbsp; Damage: Minor
>
> LOCATION
> City: J= EFFERSON CITY State: MO Cou= ntry: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR= SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT,
> LANDED WITHOUT
> INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY<= /st1:city>, MO
>
> INJURY DATA &nbs= p; Total Fatal: 0
> = ; # Crew= : 1 Fat: 0 &nbs= p; Ser:
> 0 Min: 0&nbs= p; Unk:
> &n= bsp; # Pass: 1 = Fat: 0 Ser: &n= bsp;
> 0 Min: 0 = Unk:
> &nbs= p; # Grnd: &nbs= p; Fat: 0 Ser:
> 0&nbs= p; Min: 0 Unk:
>
> WEA= THER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
>
> <= o:p>
>
> ttp://www.matronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ronics.com
> ww.matronics.com/contribution
> = <= /span>
> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.= See how.
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> <= /o:p>
> h= ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://w= ww.matronics.com/c
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> <= /font>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> ==
> 3D=
> 3D======================
> ============ yle="color: blue; text-
> decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com= /Navigator?RV10-
> List
> ==
> 3D=
> 3D======================
> ============ e; text-decoration: underline;
> ">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==
> 3D=
> 3D======================
> ============ color: blue; text-decoration:
> underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contri= bution
> ==
> 3D=
> 3D======================
> ===========
>
>
>
>
> _-
> ==
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D======================
> ==
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D======================
> ==
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D======================
> contribution _-
> ==
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=
> 3D=====================
Message 73
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hmmm
Oaky, I=92ll take the bait. How does the latch handle come free in
flight?
As far as the aftermarket blocks are concerned, how far the door pins
extend
is up to the builder. I have set mine so that the tip of the rods extend
about =BC - =BD=94 through the door frames. I don=92t think my door
frame paint is
worth the risk of only having the pins go into the aluminum block.
Cheers
Les
#40643 ' living in f/g hell
PS: Does anyone have a strap arrangement that they like ' one that
will
allow the door to be secured in the event that the latching mechanism
fails?
Inquiring minds need to know=85.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: September-28-09 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
N416EC had the reed switches installed as well and it took no more
than10
degrees of motion before the light came on. The problem is that in less
than 10 degrees, unless your hand is firmly gripping the door handle, it
can
(and will) come open due to the pressures acting upon it. Just checking
that the lights are off and the handle in the locked position, IMHO, is
not
enough. No offense, but having flown over a year with no mishap is not
an
indication of a safe system, but rather possibly a cause to get
careless. I
would not consider a latching mechanism that does not have a good length
of
rod passing through (not just nesting into) a structural metal part, as
I
understand is a feature of one of the aftermarket options. I want as
much
rod through a solid base as possible, in case the handle latch does
decide
to break lose in flight (It can happen. Ask me how I know!). A strap,
as I
have mentioned before, is the easiest way I can imagine to safety the
door.
It also allows for some air conditioning during taxi without needing a
hand
on the handle.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation
jesse@saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 28, 2009, at 8:29 PM, ricksked@embarqmail.com wrote:
Mine do the same, when the reed switches were rigged special care was
taken
to make the light indicators very sensitive. If you rotate my door
handles
towards the open position the lights come on with about 10 degrees of
motion...well in advance of the over center position...Another reminder
is
when flying alone double check the passenger door...assuming it is
locked
and secure could be a big risk...Question... I have door key
locks....what
do most of you do when flying solo? Lock the doors or just close the
handle.
Rick Sked
N246RS
Looking forward to LOE
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
_____
From: Miller John
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
Guys,
On my doors,= when the stock Van's handle locks down, both locking
pins go
THROUGH the= phenolic guides and are firmly through metal frame. The
phenolic bl= ocks are not designed to hold the door close, merely to
guide
the locking= pin through the metal!
I have warning lights on= the aft pins - if the pin does not go
through the
metal hole, the light= does not get turned off.
And part of the before= takeoff checklist is to ensure that the handle
is
locked into position an= d that you cannot push out on the door.
You must= make this check a slow, methodical check every takeoff and
not
trust your= seat-mate to do it correctly.
grumpy
N= 184JM
On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:21 PM,= Les Kearney wrote:
T= hese door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be
interesting= to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
When did= the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb out,
cruise etc)?
* What kind of door= blocks were being used (Van=92s nylon,
Rivethead,
IflyRV10 etc)?
* &= nbsp;
The 41= 6EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are
definitely
not&nbs= p;the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion,= an improperly unlatched door
should
not result in a near death experience= in a light single.
<= /div>
Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List:= door
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU &nbs= p; Make/Model: EXP &n= bsp;
Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 = Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury:= None Mid Air: N
Missing: N
&= nbsp; Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City:
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY<= /st1:city>, MO
INJURY DATA &nbs= p; Total Fatal: 0
= ; # Crew= : 1 Fat: 0 &nbs= p; Ser: 0
Min:
0&nbs= p; Unk:
www.matronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-List
ww.matronics.com/contribution
= <= /span>
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.
http://forums.matronics.com">http://w= ww.matronics.com/c
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
yle=3D"color: blue; text-decoration:
underline; ">http://www.matronics.com= /Navigator?RV10-List
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D e;
text-decoration: underline;
">http://forums.matronics.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D color:
blue; text-decoration:
underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contri= bution
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=href="3D"http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"">http://www.matronics3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=hre
f
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
"3D"http://forums.matronics.com"">http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=href="3D"http://w
ww.matronics.com/contribution"">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Message 74
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Me too. Thanks John er Grumpy or General ,
Just wanted to know your thoughts.....I appreciate more feedback and arguments...
I do feel better with the latch "locked". Odds are the door opening vs. Crash
and needing rescue....interesting huh?
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Miller John <gengrumpy@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
Message 75
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I agree with Jesse. The pin has to be fully supported by solid structure.
There are several problems with building the mechanism per the plans. On m
y
doors, I originally rigged the pins to retract as described, I guess to kee
p
from possibly whacking the door jamb with the pin. The problem there is
that you pay for the retraction with less engagement. So when I re-rigged
the pins I found I could let the pins poke out a bit more when open, and ge
t
that much more engagement.
Another thing is that the distance from the support block on the door to th
e
fuselage structure is too great. By the time the pin full extends to reach
the fuse, it has a pretty good moment on it so that it takes less force fro
m
the door to pull the pin out of the hole. In other words, the pin has a lo
t
of overhang so it can flex easier than if it protruded less. The
aftermarket blocks like ours help to address that by "thickening" the
fuselage frame and shortening the span so the pin doesn't have to reach as
far to engage. It seems to me that instead of being in pure shear, the doo
r
pins see a bending force too that tends to pull them out of the holes.
Last thing for now is that the rubber door seal can mask a lot of "feel" fo
r
how the door is engaging. With the foam seals that I'm using, there's no
question that the door is sitting in the right position before it's
latched. It just falls into place.
OK, last last thing, like Grumpy and others said, your checklist HAS to hav
e
a physical check by pushing on the doors, especially the aft edge, before
takeoff.
Dave Saylor--just passed 500 hours
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>wrote
:
> N416EC had the reed switches installed as well and it took no more than10
> degrees of motion before the light came on. The problem is that in less
> than 10 degrees, unless your hand is firmly gripping the door handle, it
can
> (and will) come open due to the pressures acting upon it. Just checking
> that the lights are off and the handle in the locked position, IMHO, is n
ot
> enough. No offense, but having flown over a year with no mishap is not a
n
> indication of a safe system, but rather possibly a cause to get careless.
I
> would not consider a latching mechanism that does not have a good length
of
> rod passing through (not just nesting into) a structural metal part, as I
> understand is a feature of one of the aftermarket options. I want as muc
h
> rod through a solid base as possible, in case the handle latch does decid
e
> to break lose in flight (It can happen. Ask me how I know!). A strap, a
s I
> have mentioned before, is the easiest way I can imagine to safety the doo
r.
> It also allows for some air conditioning during taxi without needing a h
and
> on the handle.
>
> Do not archive
>
> Jesse SaintSaint Aviation
> jesse@saintaviation.com
> 352-427-0285
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 28, 2009, at 8:29 PM, ricksked@embarqmail.com wrote:
>
> Mine do the same, when the reed switches were rigged special care was tak
en
> to make the light indicators very sensitive. If you rotate my door handle
s
> towards the open position the lights come on with about 10 degrees of
> motion...well in advance of the over center position...Another reminder i
s
> when flying alone double check the passenger door...assuming it is locked
> and secure could be a big risk...Question... I have door key locks....wha
t
> do most of you do when flying solo? Lock the doors or just close the hand
le.
>
> Rick Sked
> N246RS
> Looking forward to LOE
>
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> ------------------------------
> *From*: Miller John
> *Date*: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:07:04 -0500
> *To*: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject*: Re: RV10-List: door
>
> Guys,
> On my doors,= when the stock Van's handle locks down, both locking pins
go
> THROUGH the= phenolic guides and are firmly through metal frame. The
> phenolic bl= ocks are not designed to hold the door close, merely to gu
ide
> the locking= pin through the metal!
>
> I have warning lights on= the aft pins - if the pin does not go through
the
> metal hole, the light= does not get turned off.
>
> And part of the before= takeoff checklist is to ensure that the handle
is
> locked into position an= d that you cannot push out on the door.
>
> You must= make this check a slow, methodical check every takeoff and no
t
> trust your= seat-mate to do it correctly.
>
> grumpy
> N= 184JM
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:21 PM,= Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Hi
> <= o:p>
> T= hese door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be
> interesting= to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
>
>
> - When did= the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb
> out, cruise etc)?
> - Was the Van door warning installed
> - What kind of door= blocks were being used (Van=92s nylon, Riveth
ead,
> IflyRV10 etc)?
> - &= nbsp;
>
> The 41= 6EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are
> definitely *not*&nbs= p;the way to go when installing doors. Anyway, in
my
> not so humble opinion,= an improperly unlatched door should not result
in a
> near death experience= in a light single.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
> #40643 =96 living in f/g hell.
>
> <= div><= /font>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@ma= tronics.com [
> mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com<owner-rv10-list-server@matron
ics.com>
> ] *On Behalf Of <= /span>*David McNeill
> *S= ent:* Septembe= r-28-09 3:03 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
> <= /div>
>
>
> I believe yo= u may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now b
een
> changed and= the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the d
oors
> and check= the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and bef
ore
> takeoff.<= /span>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *Fr= om:* owner-rv10-li= st-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-l
ist-server@matro
> nics.com] *On Behalf Of ***Danny Riggs
> *Sent:* Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
> *To:* =rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List:= door
> That kinda sucks! I've been working= on the door latches over the
> weekend and thinking about the last time I= saw this happen. The landin
g was
> real firm and the front end was twisted= up to the firewall.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: dlm46007@cox.net
> To: rv10= -list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: door
> Da= te: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
>
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 78MU &nbs= p; Make/Model: EXP &n= bsp; Description
:
> RV-10
> Date: 09/26/2009 = Time: 1827
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury:= None Mid Air: N Missin
g: N
> &= nbsp; Damage: Minor
>
> LOCATION
> City: J= EFFERSON CITY State: MO Cou= ntry: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR= SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
> WITHOUT
> INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY<= /st1:city>, MO
>
> INJURY DATA &nbs= p; Total Fatal: 0
> = ; # Crew= : 1 Fat: 0 &nbs= p; Ser: 0
> Min: 0&nbs= p; Unk:
> &n= bsp; # Pass: 1 = Fat: 0 Ser: &n= bsp
; 0
> Min: 0 = Unk:
> &nbs= p; # Grnd: &nbs= p; Fat: 0 Ser: 0&
nbs
> p; Min: 0 Unk:
>
> WEA= THER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
>
> *<= o:p> *
>
> * *
>
> *ttp://www.matronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> *ronics.com*
>
> *ww.matronics.com/contribution=***
>
> *= <= /span>*
>
> *
> ------------------------------
> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.= See how.
>
>
> href=3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?RV10-List<= /o:p>
>
> h= ref=3D"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> href=3D"http://w= ww.matronics.com/c
>
>
> ***
>
> *
>
> *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> *<= /font>*
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> ****
>
> **
>
>
>
> ****
>
> * <http://3D=>http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
>
>
> * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D yle=3D"color: blue; text-decorat
ion: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com= /Navigator?RV10-List =3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D e; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.m
atronics.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D color: blue; text-decora
tion: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contri= bution =3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D *
>
>
>
>
> =3D
>
> * 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=href="3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"">http://www.m
atronics3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=href="3D"http://forums.matronics.com""> <http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=href="3D"http://www.matr
onics.com/contribution"">http://www.matronics.com/contribution 3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D *
>
> *
>
===========
ronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
===========
===========
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
Message 76
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
concur. The entire circumference of the pin must extend through the metal
door frame or other metal. In my case we made new pins from the same
material as supplied by Vans. One can make the pins extra long , install
them with the doors on the aircraft. Then using a cutoff wheel and sanding
disk, one can trim back the pins until the retracted pins just clear the
frame; the extended pins will be inserted more than sufficiently into the
metal door frames. The standard length pins do not work unless you locate
the door mechanism exactly where Vans intended. Given the epoxy process to
glue the door halves together and the trimming process , the mechanism can
vary enough to make the Vans supplied pins insufficient in length.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
N416EC had the reed switches installed as well and it took no more than10
degrees of motion before the light came on. The problem is that in less
than 10 degrees, unless your hand is firmly gripping the door handle, it can
(and will) come open due to the pressures acting upon it. Just checking
that the lights are off and the handle in the locked position, IMHO, is not
enough. No offense, but having flown over a year with no mishap is not an
indication of a safe system, but rather possibly a cause to get careless. I
would not consider a latching mechanism that does not have a good length of
rod passing through (not just nesting into) a structural metal part, as I
understand is a feature of one of the aftermarket options. I want as much
rod through a solid base as possible, in case the handle latch does decide
to break lose in flight (It can happen. Ask me how I know!). A strap, as I
have mentioned before, is the easiest way I can imagine to safety the door.
It also allows for some air conditioning during taxi without needing a hand
on the handle.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation
jesse@saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 28, 2009, at 8:29 PM, ricksked@embarqmail.com wrote:
Mine do the same, when the reed switches were rigged special care was taken
to make the light indicators very sensitive. If you rotate my door handles
towards the open position the lights come on with about 10 degrees of
motion...well in advance of the over center position...Another reminder is
when flying alone double check the passenger door...assuming it is locked
and secure could be a big risk...Question... I have door key locks....what
do most of you do when flying solo? Lock the doors or just close the handle.
Rick Sked
N246RS
Looking forward to LOE
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
_____
From: Miller John
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
Guys,
On my doors,= when the stock Van's handle locks down, both locking pins go
THROUGH the= phenolic guides and are firmly through metal frame. The
phenolic bl= ocks are not designed to hold the door close, merely to guide
the locking= pin through the metal!
I have warning lights on= the aft pins - if the pin does not go through the
metal hole, the light= does not get turned off.
And part of the before= takeoff checklist is to ensure that the handle is
locked into position an= d that you cannot push out on the door.
You must= make this check a slow, methodical check every takeoff and not
trust your= seat-mate to do it correctly.
grumpy
N= 184JM
On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:21 PM,= Les Kearney wrote:
Hi
<= o:p>
T= hese door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be
interesting= to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
* When did= the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb
out, cruise etc)?=
* Was the Van door warning installed
* What kind of door= blocks were being used (Van=92s nylon, Rivethead,
IflyRV10 etc)?
* &= nbsp;
The 41= 6EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definitely
not&nbs= p;the way to go when installing doors.
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion,= an improperly unlatched door should
not result in a near death experience= in a light single.
Cheers
Les
#40643 ' living in f/g hell.
<= div>
<= /font>
From: owner-rv10-list-server@ma= tronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com= ] On Behalf Of <= /span>David
McNeill
S= ent: Septembe= r-28-09 3:03 PM
Subject: FW: RV10-List: door
<= /div>
I believe yo= u may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
changed and= the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors
and check= the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before
takeoff.<= /span>
=
_____
Fr= om: owner-rv10-li= st-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matro= nics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List:= door
That kinda sucks! I've been working= on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I= saw this happen. The landing was real
firm and the front end was twisted= up to the firewall.
_____
From: dlm46007@cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
Da= te: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU &nbs= p; Make/Model: EXP &n= bsp; Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 = Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury:= None Mid Air: N Missing: N
&= nbsp; Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: J= EFFERSON CITY State: MO Cou= ntry: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR= SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY<= /st1:city>, MO
INJURY DATA &nbs= p; Total Fatal: 0
= ; # Crew= : 1 Fat: 0 &nbs= p; Ser: 0 Min:
0&nbs= p; Unk:
&n= bsp; # Pass: 1 = Fat: 0 Ser: &n= bsp; 0
Min: 0 = Unk:
&nbs= p; # Grnd: &nbs= p; Fat: 0 Ser: 0&nbs= p;
Min: 0 Unk: =
WEA= THER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
<= o:p>
ttp://www.matronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
= <= /span>
_____
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.= See how.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?RV10-List<= /o:p>
h= ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://w= ww.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
<= /font>
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
============ yle="color: blue; text-decoration:
underline; ">http://www.matronics.com= /Navigator?RV10-List
========================
============ e; text-decoration: underline;
">http://forums.matronics.com
========================
============ color: blue; text-decoration:
underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contri= bution
========================
============
=
3D=========================3
D====================href="3D"http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"">http://www.matronics3D====
3D==============href="3D"http://forums.matronics.c
om"" <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=========================3
D====================href="3D"http://w
ww.matronics.com/contribution"">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
3D=========================3
D====================
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|