Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:52 AM - Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? (Patrick Pulis)
2. 04:23 AM - High Oil temps (Albert Gardner)
3. 04:38 AM - Re: door (Lew Gallagher)
4. 05:11 AM - Re: High Oil temps (Kelly McMullen)
5. 05:52 AM - Re: new item for the rv-10 back seats (Don McDonald)
6. 06:09 AM - Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? (David McNeill)
7. 06:12 AM - Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? (johngoodman)
8. 06:18 AM - Re: Re: door (David McNeill)
9. 06:19 AM - Re: High Oil temps (David McNeill)
10. 06:36 AM - Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? (Jesse Saint)
11. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: door (David Maib)
12. 07:26 AM - Re: High Oil temps (cjay)
13. 07:39 AM - Re: door (Don McDonald)
14. 08:05 AM - Re: door (Vernon Smith)
15. 08:05 AM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Bill DeRouchey)
16. 08:36 AM - Re: door (David McNeill)
17. 09:42 AM - QB Feedback (Perry, Phil)
18. 09:49 AM - Re: door (Jae Chang)
19. 10:14 AM - Re: QB Feedback (Richard Bibb)
20. 10:21 AM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Kevin O'Shea)
21. 10:41 AM - Door bulge (Neil & Sarah Colliver)
22. 11:13 AM - Re: door (Les Kearney)
23. 11:39 AM - Re: QB Feedback (Jesse Saint)
24. 11:40 AM - Re: High Oil temps (Linn Walters)
25. 11:41 AM - Re: QB Feedback (Perry, Phil)
26. 12:22 PM - Re: QB Feedback (Richard Bibb)
27. 12:22 PM - Re: High Oil temps (Robin Marks)
28. 12:22 PM - Re: door (Ben Westfall)
29. 12:54 PM - Re: door (Les Kearney)
30. 12:54 PM - Trimming Control Column Mounts (James Hein)
31. 01:22 PM - Re: door (Jae Chang)
32. 01:23 PM - Re: High Oil temps (Tim Olson)
33. 01:42 PM - Re: door (Don McDonald)
34. 01:52 PM - Re: door (Bob Turner)
35. 01:52 PM - Re: door (Les Kearney)
36. 02:31 PM - Re: door (Ben Westfall)
37. 02:37 PM - Re: High Oil temps (Don McDonald)
38. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: Chargers (Marcus Cooper)
39. 02:47 PM - Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested (Bob and Karen Brown)
40. 02:58 PM - Re: FW: door (John Jessen)
41. 03:13 PM - Re: Re: Chargers (David McNeill)
42. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: Chargers (Tim Olson)
43. 03:46 PM - Re: Door bulge (Bob and Karen Brown)
44. 04:59 PM - Re: Door bulge (Kelly McMullen)
45. 06:01 PM - Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? (Patrick Pulis)
46. 06:05 PM - Re: Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? (Patrick Pulis)
47. 07:24 PM - Re: High Oil temps (n277dl)
48. 07:28 PM - Re: Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
49. 07:38 PM - Re: Re: High Oil temps (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
50. 08:08 PM - Re: Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? (Perry, Phil)
51. 08:11 PM - Re: Door bulge (Chris)
52. 08:37 PM - Re: door (Lew Gallagher)
53. 09:08 PM - Re: Re: door (David McNeill)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
David, should I install these before riveting on the bottom wing skins?=0A
=0ARegards=0A=0APat=0A=0ADo Not Archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________
___________=0AFrom: David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net>=0ATo: rv10-list@matron
ics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, 29 September, 2009 1:03:56 AM=0ASubject: RE: RV10-
List: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins?=0A=0A=0Apushrods and bellcranks.
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: owner-rv10-list-server@ma
tronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patr
ick Pulis=0ASent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:22 AM=0ATo: rv10-list@matron
ics.com=0ASubject: RV10-List: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins?=0A=0A=0AI
am seeking some wise words of advice from the pioneers that have gone befo
re me please, just to make sure that I've covered all my bases-before clo
sing the bottom skins.=0A=0ACould someone please tell me if there-are any
prudent things that I should-consider prior to riveting on the bottom wi
ng skins?=0A=0ATo date, I have routed all the wiring through conduits which
pass through the ribs; installed the pitot mast and plumbed the pitot line
; installed the pitot heater module; installed the roll servo and I've asse
mbled the aileron trim mechanism.=0A=0AIs there anything that I may have fo
rgotten to do please, you advice would be very much appreciated?=0A=0AKind
regards from down under.=0A=0APatrick Pulis=0A#40299-------
-- VH-XPP=0AAdelaide, South Australia-=0A____________________________
____=0AGet more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more. =0A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://foru
ms.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www
=============== =0A=0A=0A ___________
_______________________________________________________________________=0AG
et more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail.=0ALearn more: http://au.o
verview.mail.yahoo.com/
Message 2
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I think I have my high oil temps problem under control finally. I previously
had added another oil cooler on the right side but still was seeing temps
climbing too high. I added 2 non-retractable cowl flaps on the bottom. The
rectangular opening in the cowl is 4 x 9 inches. The opening at the rear is
2 x 4 inches. They are non-retractable because the mufflers would interfere.
This seems to be a final fix. I wish I had added the cowl flaps before I
tried the 2nd oil cooler.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
N991RV
Message 3
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Hey Jesse,
The door rods/seats issue has been addressed many times, but your comment about
the handle latch made me decide to list the following:
Our -10 is not flying yet, but in the many off/on 's during fitting the doors,
I noticed that a couple of times that the safety wire holding the pins that hold
the rods to the latch mechanism (whew, what a sentence!) get buggered and come
off if not twisted and positioned just right. I've thought, "Wow, the whole
door integrity is dependent on this delicate little wire -- how scary is that!"
Thoughts? By the way, is it not possible to edit out all the quotes when responding
by iphone?
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting done!
On with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265509#265509
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil temps |
Sure how this does the job Albert. Of course the AZ hot temps are on
their way out, so limited testing wx remaining.
If it proves to be the fix, it sure would point to the original
lacking sufficient exit area.
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:22 AM, Albert Gardner <ibspud@roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
> I think I have my high oil temps problem under control finally. I previously
> had added another oil cooler on the right side but still was seeing temps
> climbing too high. I added 2 non-retractable cowl flaps on the bottom. The
> rectangular opening in the cowl is 4 x 9 inches. The opening at the rear is
> 2 x 4 inches. They are non-retractable because the mufflers would interfere.
> This seems to be a final fix. I wish I had added the cowl flaps before I
> tried the 2nd oil cooler.
> Albert Gardner
> Yuma, AZ
> N991RV
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: new item for the rv-10 back seats |
Congrats.... someone has to do it... I simply knew I wouldn't have been abl
e to have a boat or the 10, if I had one or more of those mods.=C2- (--:
Don McDonald
--- On Sun, 9/27/09, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
From: Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: new item for the rv-10 back seats
That's the most expensive "mod" yet for the -10. =C2-CONGRATULATIONS!
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Sep 27, 2009, at 1:55 PM, Ben Westfall wrote:
Hey guys I thought I=99d show you our newest =9Cadd-on=9D
for the RV-10 J. =C2-It goes in the back seat and adds to the beauty of
the plane.=C2- Good thing we=99re building the 4 seater!
=C2-
Ben Westfall
Portland, OR
#40579 (Finish Kit)
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-<P1000761 (Large).JPG>
=0A=0A=0A
Message 6
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| Subject: | Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
The bellcranks should be there; I don't think they will impact bucking. The
pushrods should be sized and test fitted. Final install can take place after
bucking. Also be sure that every attach point for the wiring is accessible
from an access panel. Don't clamp the wiring bundle somewhere it can not be
reached for removal or repair.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins?
David, should I install these before riveting on the bottom wing skins?
Regards
Pat
Do Not Archive
_____
From: David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, 29 September, 2009 1:03:56 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins?
pushrods and bellcranks.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:22 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins?
I am seeking some wise words of advice from the pioneers that have gone
before me please, just to make sure that I've covered all my bases before
closing the bottom skins.
Could someone please tell me if there are any prudent things that I should
consider prior to riveting on the bottom wing skins?
To date, I have routed all the wiring through conduits which pass through
the ribs; installed the pitot mast and plumbed the pitot line; installed the
pitot heater module; installed the roll servo and I've assembled the aileron
trim mechanism.
Is there anything that I may have forgotten to do please, you advice would
be very much appreciated?
Kind regards from down under.
Patrick Pulis
#40299 VH-XPP
Adelaide, South Australia
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
To answer your question, I installed everything, including the push rods before
closing.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine & Panel
delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265529#265529
Message 8
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It is possible to tap the hole on the pushrod for a stainless #4 or 6? Screw
and then threadlock in place. Another option is a clevis pin with cotter key
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 4:38 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: door
Hey Jesse,
The door rods/seats issue has been addressed many times, but your comment
about the handle latch made me decide to list the following:
Our -10 is not flying yet, but in the many off/on 's during fitting the
doors, I noticed that a couple of times that the safety wire holding the
pins that hold the rods to the latch mechanism (whew, what a sentence!) get
buggered and come off if not twisted and positioned just right. I've
thought, "Wow, the whole door integrity is dependent on this delicate little
wire -- how scary is that!"
Thoughts? By the way, is it not possible to edit out all the quotes when
responding by iphone?
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting done!
On with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265509#265509
Message 9
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If the flap is a solution , it needs to be retractable for high altitude/
winter and speed. Those cowl flaps are going to cause lots of drag.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 5:10 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: High Oil temps
Sure how this does the job Albert. Of course the AZ hot temps are on their
way out, so limited testing wx remaining.
If it proves to be the fix, it sure would point to the original lacking
sufficient exit area.
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:22 AM, Albert Gardner <ibspud@roadrunner.com>
wrote:
>
> I think I have my high oil temps problem under control finally. I
> previously had added another oil cooler on the right side but still
> was seeing temps climbing too high. I added 2 non-retractable cowl
> flaps on the bottom. The rectangular opening in the cowl is 4 x 9
> inches. The opening at the rear is
> 2 x 4 inches. They are non-retractable because the mufflers would
interfere.
> This seems to be a final fix. I wish I had added the cowl flaps before
> I tried the 2nd oil cooler.
> Albert Gardner
> Yuma, AZ
> N991RV
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
Test fit bellcranks and pushrods, but it would be very hard to rivet
the skins on with them installed.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation
jesse@saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 29, 2009, at 3:17 AM, Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:
> David, should I install these before riveting on the bottom wing
> skins?
>
> Regards
>
> Pat
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> From: David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 29 September, 2009 1:03:56 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins?
>
> pushrods and bellcranks.
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:22 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins?
>
> I am seeking some wise words of advice from the pioneers that have
> gone before me please, just to make sure that I've covered all my
> bases before closing the bottom skins.
>
> Could someone please tell me if there are any prudent things that I
> should consider prior to riveting on the bottom wing skins?
>
> To date, I have routed all the wiring through conduits which pass
> through the ribs; installed the pitot mast and plumbed the pitot
> line; installed the pitot heater module; installed the roll servo
> and I've assembled the aileron trim mechanism.
>
> Is there anything that I may have forgotten to do please, you advice
> would be very much appreciated?
>
> Kind regards from down under.
>
> Patrick Pulis
> #40299 VH-XPP
> Adelaide, South Australia
>
> Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more.
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List om/contribution"
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>
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>
>
Message 11
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I used clevis pins and cotter keys. I am pretty sure that this is the
method called out in the plans. I will take a look next time I am at
the airport.
David Maib
40559
Flying
On Sep 29, 2009, at 9:14 AM, David McNeill wrote:
It is possible to tap the hole on the pushrod for a stainless #4 or
6? Screw
and then threadlock in place. Another option is a clevis pin with
cotter key
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 4:38 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: door
Hey Jesse,
The door rods/seats issue has been addressed many times, but your
comment
about the handle latch made me decide to list the following:
Our -10 is not flying yet, but in the many off/on 's during fitting the
doors, I noticed that a couple of times that the safety wire holding the
pins that hold the rods to the latch mechanism (whew, what a
sentence!) get
buggered and come off if not twisted and positioned just right. I've
thought, "Wow, the whole door integrity is dependent on this delicate
little
wire -- how scary is that!"
Thoughts? By the way, is it not possible to edit out all the quotes
when
responding by iphone?
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting done!
On with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265509#265509
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil temps |
awhile back wasn't there an ecstatic contributer who claimed that by adding louvers
at the lower back side of the cowl not only solved his heat and hot tunnel
problem, but also showed markedly improved performance? I seem to remember
his name was Glen but I couldn't find the thread.
cjay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265549#265549
Message 13
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It's simple.... #1- you throw away the Van's plastic/nylon crap, and inst
all the aftermarket aluminum pin and receiver.- #2- Check-for proper
door closure EVERY Time before taxi and prior to takeoff!!!!!
Don McDonald
--- On Mon, 9/28/09, Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com> wrote:
From: Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
N416EC had the reed switches installed as well and it took no more than10 d
egrees of motion before the light came on. -The problem is that in less t
han 10 degrees, unless your hand is firmly gripping the door handle, it can
(and will) come open due to the pressures acting upon it. -Just checking
that the lights are off and the handle in the locked position, IMHO, is no
t enough. -No offense, but having flown over a year with no mishap is not
an indication of a safe system, but rather possibly a cause to get careles
s. -I would not consider a latching mechanism that does not have a good l
ength of rod passing through (not just nesting into) a structural metal par
t, as I understand is a feature of one of the aftermarket options. -I wan
t as much rod through a solid base as possible, in case the handle latch do
es decide to break lose in flight (It can happen. -Ask me how I know!).
-A strap, as I have mentioned before, is the easiest way I can imagine to
safety the door. -It also allows for some air conditioning during taxi w
ithout needing a hand on the handle.
Do not archive - -
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation
jesse@saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 28, 2009, at 8:29 PM, ricksked@embarqmail.com wrote:
Mine do the same, when the reed switches were rigged special care was taken
to make the light indicators very sensitive. If you rotate my door handles
towards the open position the lights come on with about 10 degrees of moti
on...well in advance of the over center position...Another reminder is when
flying alone double check the passenger door...assuming it is locked and s
ecure could be a big risk...Question... I have door key locks....what do mo
st of you do when flying solo? Lock the doors or just close the handle.
Rick Sked
N246RS
Looking forward to LOE
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
From: Miller John
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
Guys,
On my doors,= when the stock Van's handle locks down, both locking pins g
o THROUGH the= phenolic guides and are firmly through metal frame. -The
phenolic bl= ocks are not designed to hold the door close, merely to gui
de the locking= pin through the metal!
I have warning lights on= the aft pins - if the pin does not go through t
he metal hole, the light= does not get turned off.
And part of the before= takeoff checklist is to ensure that the handle is
locked into position an= d that you cannot push out on the door.
You must= make this check a slow, methodical check every takeoff and not
trust your= seat-mate to do it correctly.
grumpy
N= 184JM
On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:21 PM,= Les Kearney wrote:
Hi
<= o:p>-
T= hese door departures are really quite troublesome. It would be interes
ting= to now the following about each of the incidents to date.
-
When did= the door departure occur (i.e. on takeoff, during climb out, cr
uise etc)?
Was the Van door warning installed
What kind of door= blocks were being used (Van=92s nylon, Rivethead, If
lyRV10 etc)?
&= nbsp;
The 41= 6EC incident seems to indicate that the nylon blocks are definite
ly -not&nbs= p;the way to go when installing doors.
-
Anyway, in my not so humble opinion,= an improperly unlatched door should
not result in a near death experience= in a light single.
-
Cheers
-
Les
#40643 =96 living in f/g hell.-<= div>
<= /font>
From:-owner-rv10-list-server@ma= tronics.com-[mailto:owner-rv10-list-
server@matronics.com= ]-On Behalf Of-<= /span>David McNeill
S= ent:-Septembe= r-28-09 3:03 PM
Subject:-FW: RV10-List: door
- <= /div>
-
-
I believe yo= u may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now bee
n changed and= the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the d
oors and check= the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and
before takeoff.<= /span>
=
Fr= om:-owner-rv10-li= st-server@matronics.com-[mailto:owner-rv10-l
ist-server@matro= nics.com]- On Behalf Of-Danny Riggs
Sent:-Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
To:-=rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject:-RE: RV10-List:= door
That kinda sucks!--- I've been working= on the door latches over th
e weekend and thinking about the last time I= saw this happen. The landin
g was real firm and the front end was twisted= up to the firewall.-
-
From:-dlm46007@cox.net
To:-rv10= -list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: door
Da= te: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:43 -0700
IDENTIFICATION
- Regis#: 78MU--&nbs= p;---- Make/Model: EXP-----
&n= bsp; Description: RV-10
- Date: 09/26/2009----= Time: 1827
- Event Type: Incident-- Highest Injury:= None---- Mid Air:
N--- Missing: N
&= nbsp; Damage: Minor
LOCATION
- City:- J= EFFERSON CITY -- State: MO-- Cou= ntry: US
DESCRIPTION
- AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR= SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT-
- INCIDENT,- JEFFERSON CITY<= /st1:city>,- MO
INJURY DATA--&nbs= p;-- Total Fatal:-- 0
-----= ;----------- # Crew= :-- 1
---- Fat:-- 0--&nbs= p;- Ser:-- 0---- Min:
-- 0&nbs= p;--- Unk:----
--------&n= bsp;------- # Pass:-- 1-
= --- Fat:-- 0---- Ser:-&n= bsp; 0---- Min:
-- 0----= Unk:----
-----------&nbs= p;---- # Grnd:----
--&nbs= p;- Fat:-- 0---- Ser:-- 0&nbs= p;--
- Min:-- 0---- Unk:-= ---
WEA= THER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995<= o:p>- -ttp://www.ma
tronics.= com/Navigator?RV10-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution
== - <= /span>
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.=-See how. -
-href=3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?RV10-List <= /o:p>h= ref=3D"http://forums.matroni
cs.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref=3D"http://w= ww.matronics.com/c
- -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List<= /font>http://forum
s.matronics.com=http://www.matronics.com/contribution -= =3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D yle=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com= /Navigator?RV10-List =3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D e; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D color: blue; text-decoration: underline
;
">http://www.matronics.com/contri= bution =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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=3D
=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=href="3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"">http://ww
w.matronics3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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=3D=3D=href="3D"http://forums.matronics.com"">http://forums.matroni
cs.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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=3D=href="3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"">http://www.matro
nics.com/contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=0A=0A=0A
Message 14
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David=2C
Where did you get the new material for your extended door pins? I used the
Rivethead guides but didn't extend the pins through the fuselage structure
and the more I think about it I would like to redo this.
Thanks=2C
Vern Smith (#40324)
From: dlm46007@cox.net
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
concur. The entire circumference of the pin must extend through the metal d
oor frame or other metal. In my case we made new pins from the same materia
l as supplied by Vans. One can make the pins extra long =2C install them wi
th the doors on the aircraft. Then using a cutoff wheel and sanding disk
=2C one can trim back the pins until the retracted pins just clear the fram
e=3B the extended pins will be inserted more than sufficiently into the met
al door frames. The standard length pins do not work unless you locate the
door mechanism exactly where Vans intended. Given the epoxy process to glue
the door halves together and the trimming process =2C the mechanism can va
ry enough to make the Vans supplied pins insufficient in length.
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Bing=99 brings you maps=2C menus=2C and reviews organized in one place.
Try it now.=0A
http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&cre
a=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
Deems-
My engine and installation is entirely stock. From not too many samples my
CHT's run around-OAT (in F) + 300F. My oil temps vary between 180 and 195
also depending upon OAT.
-
I-would guess that your temps are about-5%-10% over a stock installatio
n. I currently have 315 hours on N939SB and my CHT temps did not settle-d
own until 100 hours minimum.
-
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB
---
--- On Mon, 9/28/09, Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote:
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
It's hard to say, I put several sets of louvers on the bottom of the cowl :
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Phase1/slides/DSC07560.html
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Phase1/slides/DSC07583.html
With differences in OAT on the before and after days. The benefit, if
any was small (i.e. a couple of degrees and not 10-15 degs). Bill Genero
@ Airflow systems, says that the optimum place to install them is on the
sides of the lower cowl. Since That would interferre with my paint, i
was reluctant to do that.
Deems
John Cumins wrote:
>
> Deems
>
> Did the new louvers work on the cowl.- How much did you see of a differ
ence
> in cooling numbers?
>
> John G. Cumins
> President
>-
> JC'S Interactive Systems
> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
> Fairfield Ca 94533
> 707-425-7100
> 707-425-7576 Fax
>-
> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 2:57 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
>
>
> I tried that. ........didn't help
> http://deemsrv10.com/album/Phase1/slides/DSC07522.html
>
> Deems
>
> Linn Walters wrote:
>---
>
>>
>> I've been interested in the oil cooler thread ...... because I'll be
>> there someday!- One other poster measured the pressures across the
>> cooler, but I couldn't find it .... anyway my thoughts were a plenum
>> on the output side to deflect the air towards the lower cowl outlet
>> .... or---a dedicated louver ..... instead of just letting it blow
>> into the pressurized lower cowl.
>> Linn
>> do not archive
>> Deems Davis wrote:
>>- ---
>>>
>>> This is a familiar topic. ;-)- - - - - - - I have the Jam
es
>>> cowl/Plenum, Live in AZ and have to deal with heat issues (Today's
>>> high will reach 107!). I have been through several machinations in an
>>> attempt to deal with heat. Ton's of louvers on bottom of cowl,
>>> increasing the lower cowl exit area 5-10%. Plenum rework, baffle
>>> sealing. I still have the oil cooler mounted in the stock (Van's)
>>> location. My current temps are 'manageable'. Everything is linked
>>> directly to OAT, the cooler the better. With OAT of- approx 90-95, On
>>> Take Off, I will see Oil temps climb to 210-215 if I keep airspeed up
>>> to 120-130 kts. Hottest cyls CHT seem to peak @ 400-405. At altitude
>>> oil temps come back to 195 and CHT to 360-380. On our trip back east
>>> (ie. cooler temps) we saw oil temps 175-185. I consider my
>>> temperatures on the high side, but am worried about overreacting
>>> until I get some more experience in some lower temperatures.
>>> One approach I have considered is relocating the oil cooler to behind
>>> the baffle (#6 likely). Initially I didn't think there was enough
>>> room, however I saw an installation on an F1 Rocket
>>> http://www.pflanzer-aviation.com/Engine9.html which got me thinking,
>>> I borrowed an unmounted oil cooler and did a loose test fit and I
>>> think it could be made to work.
>>>
>>> Deems Davis
>>> www.deemsrv10.com
>>> N519PJ
>>>
>>> Carl Froehlich wrote:
>>>- - ---
>>>> <carl.froehlich@verizon.net>
>>>>
>>>> I'll venture into the oil cooler mount/high temp waters with some
>>>> thoughts:
>>>> 1.- There was a good article a few months back in one of the kit
>>>> magazines
>>>> on cooling air flow into the engine.- The bottom line is once the
>>>> top of the
>>>> cowl (or plenum) is pressurized, the cylinder airflow (lbm/hr) is
>>>> fairly
>>>> uniform.- My take from this is the air coming off the back for the o
il
>>>> cooler does not affect one side more than the other.
>>>> 2.- This article also discussed the relatively high pressure area at
>>>> the
>>>> front top of the cowl caused by air bouncing off the rear baffle.- T
he
>>>> lesson learned is make sure the front cowl seal is in good shape.
>>>> 3.- The third take away from the article is huge gain received from
>>>> smoothing the cowl air inlet passages.- For the James cowl this is
>>>> done by
>>>> design.- For the Van's cowl this is done by adding the top cowl
>>>> inlet ramps.
>>>> 4.- While the standard Van's mount has clear advantage for installat
ion
>>>> ease, I can't see how multiple redirections of air flow can go any
>>>> good.- I
>>>> am not using this standard oil cooler mount in my project.
>>>> 5.- Talking with others, I get the impression that the mid/aft cowl
>>>> region
>>>> is a relatively high pressure area.- This would contribute to a lowe
r
>>>> differential pressure across the oil cooler (in the standard mount)
>>>> and thus
>>>> lower air flow.
>>>> 6.- The other heat problem I see are the cabin heat valves.- As th
ey
>>>> are
>>>> shut on hot days, the more than ample heat muff hot air bounces off th
e
>>>> closed valves directly toward the fuel pump.- In addition to heating
>>>> the
>>>> wrong component, I would guess this additional air pressure in the
>>>> aft mid
>>>> cowl region contributes to the less than adequate differential pressur
e
>>>> across the oil cooler in the standard mount. What I'm doing:
>>>> 1.- Using the James Cowl and plenum
>>>> 2.- Mounting the oil cooler aft of the rear baffle with a direct
>>>> connection
>>>> for air flow. 3.- Mounted Cool Mat between the cabin heat valves and
>>>> over the top and
>>>> front of the valves.- The objective is to isolate radiant heat from
the
>>>> firewall and tunnel and redirect the unused hot air down toward the
>>>> bottom
>>>> of the cowl.
>>>>
>>>> Carl Froehlich
>>>> RV-8A (500 hrs)
>>>> RV-10 (fuselage make it pretty fiberglass work)
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Bib
b
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:26 AM
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My thought was it would be easier to balance the flow if you didn't
>>>> have a
>>>> big 3" round exit on one side of the engine.---But I'm waiting f
or the
>>>> aerodynamicists to weigh in here...
>>>>
>>>> Richard Bibb
>>>> 972-771-2598
>>>> 972-835-5979 mobile
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walter
s
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:48 AM
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
>>>>
>>>> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>>>>
>>>> Like you, my background is in electronics, so my comments may not
>>>> help!---I don't think the problem is in robbing the available ai
r
>>>> from the cylinders, it's finding a balance in the area of entrance
>>>> air Vs exit air, and finding a less-obstructed path for the air.
>>>> Lopresti was an expert at it, and his son is carrying on the
>>>> effort.- Look at the size of the holes in some 'certificated' cowls
>>>> Vs the Swift Fury or the Lancair.- I'll go the plenum route .....
>>>> cowl seals leak ..... and I'll use a manometer to try and balance
>>>> the pressures.- Providing for good exit flows seem to help a lot.
>>>> Linn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard Bibb wrote:
>>>>
>>>>- - - ---
>>>>> Well I wasn't thinking of mounting the oil cooler on the cowl just
>>>>> deriving the source of air for the cooler (mounting in stock
>>>>> location but perhaps modified mount to reflect change in air source
>>>>> geometry) from a combined induction/oil cooler inlet.- The idea is
>>>>> to eliminate the source of air for the oil cooer from the rear of
>>>>> the baffles (whether inside a plenum or not) as to increase cooling
>>>>> air for the cylinders.- That creates the problem of creating an air
>>>>> source for the cooler.- Rather than create a separate inlet I was
>>>>> thinking of creating a larger "mouth"- on the below-cowl scoop for
>>>>> the induction and creating some sort of flow divider to send some
>>>>> air to the inlet and some to the cooler.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not being educated in fluid dynamics I'm looking for general
>>>>> guidelines as to an efficient method of engineering such an
>>>>> inlet/splitter combo.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the warning...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard Bibb
>>>>>
>>>>> 972-771-2598
>>>>>
>>>>> 972-835-5979 mobile
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>- - - - ---
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>- - - ---
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>- - ---
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>- ---
>
>
>---
le, List Admin.
Message 16
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It is standard aluminum 6061T6 tubing; I believe the OD was 7/16" and the ID
3/8"; 1/16" walls. Measure it to be sure. comes in 6 ft lengths from
aircraft spruce or ?. slots can be cut using a dril press and band saw.
Another thing I bought from McMaster Carr is additional Stainless/ Steel
pins for the cowl pins. I sharpened the point on one end and placed a couple
underneath the baggage area carpeting fore to aft and they extend to the
right side of the rear seat. This provides , if a builder uses the cowl
pins, backup pins while away from home in case the aircraft is serviced and
a cowl pin is bent.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Smith
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:04 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
David,
Where did you get the new material for your extended door pins? I used the
Rivethead guides but didn't extend the pins through the fuselage structure
and the more I think about it I would like to redo this.
Thanks,
Vern Smith (#40324)
_____
From: dlm46007@cox.net
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
concur. The entire circumference of the pin must extend through the metal
door frame or other metal. In my case we made new pins from the same
material as supplied by Vans. One can make the pins extra long , install
them with the doors on the aircraft. Then using a cutoff wheel and sanding
disk, one can trim back the pins until the retracted pins just clear the
frame; the extended pins will be inserted more than sufficiently into the
metal door frames. The standard length pins do not work unless you locate
the door mechanism exactly where Vans intended. Given the epoxy process to
glue the door halves together and the trimming process , the mechanism can
vary enough to make the Vans supplied pins insufficient in length.
_____
_____
BingT brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it
now.
<http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT
_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1>
Message 17
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For those of you who have recently received (or will soon be receiving)
your QB fuselage's, here is some feedback I sent to Vans today.
You might want to pack it away some place special and double check these
area when yours arrives. Some of it is nit-picky, but I wanted to be as
thorough as I could possibly be.
Phil
Hello,
My QB Fuselage (40750) arrived a couple of weeks ago and I thought I'd
share some feedback and some inventory discrepancies.
I've spent the past couple of weeks walking through the steps and I have
currently made it through section 29. Generally speaking, the quality
of the work is actually quite nice and the kit was well work the wait.
Rivet work looks good and it's generally deburred quite well.
I have found a few issues with their attention to detail.
These are the most concerning areas of workmanship:
28-4 Step #1) "Radius the corners and remove material from the middle of
both control column mounts." (Remove hatched area).
This step was completely ignored. The control column
mounts were deburred and simply bolted into position.
29-6 Step #7) "Draw a line on the flange of the F-10102A and B Baggage
Door Seal Angles 3/8" from the lower face of the F-1046-L Mid Fuse
Longeron as show in Figure 4. Remove the baggage door seal angles and
trim off the portion of the flange below this line. Note that once
trimmed, the flange on the F-10102B will be shorter than the flange on
F-10102A"
This step was completely ignored. They just riveted the
piece into the airplane and left it. Now I'm trying to figure out the
best way to trim the part per the plans. I wish they had paid attention
and trimmed the part before riveting, or not riveted it at all.
29-9 Step #5) "Check the distance between the aft most rivet hole and
the aft end of the F-1013-L and -R Fwd Fuse Longerons per the dimensions
in Figure 3. Pull away the F-1070L and -R Mid Side Skins and trim the
longerons if necessary (or wait until fwd fuselage longerons are
disassembled, but don't forget)."
This step was ignored and the longerons were just
riveted to the skin. They're not slightly long, but way too long. So
long that the left one sticks into the baggage door opening. Now I'm
drilling rivets in the skin/longeron and trying to slide a piece of
stainless between the two so I can cut them to the proper length before
riveting them again. If they wanted to leave them long, they should
have never riveted them.
Torque Wrench Use:)
Upon checking the torque value of the AN-3 bolts, it's quite obvious
that they don't have one on the floor. All of the bolts are over torque
by 2X. I'm now backing off all of the nuts to neutral and re-torquing
them to 25 inches.
================
Other items of omission.....
25-5 Step #7) The Snap Bushings were not installed - And not included in
the kit.
25-6 Step #4) The Snap Bushings were not installed - And not included in
the kit.
25-6 Step #5,6,7) The UMHW plastic was not installed - And not included
in the kit.
27-6 Step #4) The Snap Bushings were not installed and not included in
the kit.
29-19 Step #8) The 5610-90-31 washers were not included in the kit.
28-6 Step #2) None of the F-1084B's were shipped with the kit. The A's
are riveted to the floor but they didn't include the other half (B)'s.
30-4 Step #2) The AN3-20A's for the steps was not included in the kit.
They shipped a 24 with a stack of AN960-10 washers.
Many other sections) They completely ignored dimpling/countersinking and
chose to install pan head interior screws as opposed the flush. I
cannot speak to the problems this might cause right now - but I'm sure
I'll have a better understand of it as I go forward.
================
Inventory omissions (summarized above):
SB750-10 QTY 8
SB625-8 QTY 2
UHMW-125X1/2X5 QTY 1
Washer 5610-18-31 QTY 2
F-1084B QTY 4
AN3-20A QTY 2
MS21042-3 QTY 2
================
I'm sure I'll find a few more omissions and areas of concern as I
continue through the kit, but these are the ones I have on my list right
now. Generally speaking, the kit is great though. I just wanted to
provide my findings/feedback upon a closer inspection - since the new
factory is now running.
If you have any questions, let me know.
Thanks,
Phil
Message 18
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I'll add my 2c to add to this discussion.
After installing my rivethead aero door guides, I realized that my door
pins did not retract enough into the door when latch is open. They stuck
out just enough, less than a 1/4", where they would not clear the guides
to let me close the door. However, I could twist the door slightly and
they would clear the guide. In the locked position, the aluminum door
pin just barely, 1/8" maybe, extends beyond the metal door frame for a
positive engagement. The Al door pins were cut right where the taper began.
Thus, I could shorten the Al door pin but that means I lose the 1/8"
engagement past the door frame.
Then I thought, what I really want is just a longer ratchet travel. IE,
from locked to fully open, I just want that travel to be a bit longer.
That means ordering new CRACK's - the sliding metal with teeth. For
whatever reason, just 1 of them costs $75 from Vans. I need 2 for L and
R doors, so that means $150 for a few inches of metal.
Thus, if I had to do over again, I would cut those CRACK's longer than
plans. You could always drill a hole anywhere along its length to put an
arbitrary stop at any point to make them shorter. What you cannot do is
make them longer again, unless you pay $150 for it.
Jae
40533
Message 19
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It is obvious from reading Phil's feedback that Van's subcontractor does not
have even a rudimentary QC System in place. It is also obvious that Van's
doesn't have much of a QC process in place either from an incoming
inspection standpoint as some of the items could not be missed with even the
most cursory inspection of the items (thinking longeron length).
Excuses can be imagined centered around the ramp up of the new subcontractor
location and the emphasis to clear backlog of unhappy customers, neither of
which is good enough in my opinion.
In my business (fabricating aerospace parts) this would result in a
rejection and me having to remake the item to spec. I realize this is a
different world but this level of sloppiness is unacceptable IMO.
Glad I'm building a slow-build.
Don't get me wrong I love Van's but this doesn't live up to the standard I'm
used to seeing from them.
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
Attaching a pic of my louvers. One on each side. Have 15 hrs on ac with
new IO 540. After first 5 hrs CHT's have settled down to 350-380. Oil
temps have never exceeded 190. Stock Van's cowl, cooler etc. In Vt so
oat not like the southwest. Max temp flown 85. I believe the louver is a
key variable. Built a Glastar with O360 with cooler on firewall. had a
horrible time with oil temps and had to move cooler to front baffle. Did
not use a louver but felt that could make a big difference which I think
has been the case with the RV 10. The 10 is a great airplane.
Message 21
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Here is an air to air pic + enlargement.
Speed was only about 110 knts max as the photo ship was a C182.
On the ground the door is perfectly flush all around, with no visible
bulge at the leading edge, nor at the bottom.
In flight I have not noticed it moving out, but we have a thick lining
material there. But the bulge is definitely visible in these pics. Our
pins go right into the frame as per Vans instructions, but it serves
as a reminder to ensure that the front pins have plenty of engagement.
We also have the Vans door warning system and that hasn't illumintated
in flight.
Nor is there any feeling of a draught at all, so the seals obviously
do their job well.
Neil
Message 22
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Jae
There is another solution, if I understand your problem, which is much
simpler & cheaper.
I had a problem in that after I mounted the nylon door blocks on the door
and then glassed them in, there was interference between the Rivet head
blocks & the door pins / nylon blocks on the door. I simply notched out the
fibreglass door frame so the Rivethead blocks now mount directly on the
aluminum frame (and not on the fibreglass)
Problem solved & I still have pins that extend into the door frame.
The advantage of this solution is that the gap between the Rivethead blocks
and the nylon door blocks is quite small so it a) helps ensure good door
alignment in the opening and b) minimizes the unsupported gap for the door
pin between the frame and the door blocks.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - still living in f/g hell
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang
Sent: September-29-09 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
I'll add my 2c to add to this discussion.
After installing my rivethead aero door guides, I realized that my door
pins did not retract enough into the door when latch is open. They stuck
out just enough, less than a 1/4", where they would not clear the guides
to let me close the door. However, I could twist the door slightly and
they would clear the guide. In the locked position, the aluminum door
pin just barely, 1/8" maybe, extends beyond the metal door frame for a
positive engagement. The Al door pins were cut right where the taper began.
Thus, I could shorten the Al door pin but that means I lose the 1/8"
engagement past the door frame.
Then I thought, what I really want is just a longer ratchet travel. IE,
from locked to fully open, I just want that travel to be a bit longer.
That means ordering new CRACK's - the sliding metal with teeth. For
whatever reason, just 1 of them costs $75 from Vans. I need 2 for L and
R doors, so that means $150 for a few inches of metal.
Thus, if I had to do over again, I would cut those CRACK's longer than
plans. You could always drill a hole anywhere along its length to put an
arbitrary stop at any point to make them shorter. What you cannot do is
make them longer again, unless you pay $150 for it.
Jae
40533
Message 23
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In talking to Van's, they say that they certainly could do better QC,
but that would raise the cost of every kit. For them, it's cheaper in
the long run to replace or fix mistakes than to spend what it would
cost to fix them before they go out the door, thus keeping down the
cost of the kit.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Sep 29, 2009, at 1:13 PM, Richard Bibb wrote:
> It is obvious from reading Phil=92s feedback that Van=92s
subcontractor
> does not have even a rudimentary QC System in place. It is also
> obvious that Van=92s doesn=92t have much of a QC process in place
either
> from an incoming inspection standpoint as some of the items could
> not be missed with even the most cursory inspection of the items
> (thinking longeron length).
>
> Excuses can be imagined centered around the ramp up of the new
> subcontractor location and the emphasis to clear backlog of unhappy
> customers, neither of which is good enough in my opinion.
>
> In my business (fabricating aerospace parts) this would result in a
> rejection and me having to remake the item to spec. I realize this
> is a different world but this level of sloppiness is unacceptable IMO.
>
> Glad I=92m building a slow-build.
>
> Don=92t get me wrong I love Van=92s but this doesn=92t live up to the
> standard I=92m used to seeing from them.
>
> Richard Bibb
> 972-771-2598
> 972-835-5979 mobile
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil temps |
I think the cowl flaps are creating a venturi effect that's sucking some
more of the air out of the lower cowl .... much like the louvers do. I
wonder if widening the ramp would be more effective with less drag.
Maybe a 'lip on the bottom of the ramp would also be beneficial. Just
wondering out loud!!!
Linn
do not archive
Albert Gardner wrote:
> I think I have my high oil temps problem under control finally. I previously
> had added another oil cooler on the right side but still was seeing temps
> climbing too high. I added 2 non-retractable cowl flaps on the bottom. The
> rectangular opening in the cowl is 4 x 9 inches. The opening at the rear is
> 2 x 4 inches. They are non-retractable because the mufflers would interfere.
> This seems to be a final fix. I wish I had added the cowl flaps before I
> tried the 2nd oil cooler.
> Albert Gardner
> Yuma, AZ
> N991RV
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Message 25
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Attached are two photos of four offenses.
Baggage Seal photo shows:
The longeron extending into the baggage door opening.
The baggage door seal angles (top of baggage door) - not
trimmed.
1084 and Control Column mount photo shows:
The 1084B's missing. The bottom half is riveted to the
floor
The control column brackets without the hatched area
removed.
From: Richard Bibb [mailto:rbibb@tomet.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 12:14 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB Feedback
It is obvious from reading Phil's feedback that Van's subcontractor does
not have even a rudimentary QC System in place. It is also obvious that
Van's doesn't have much of a QC process in place either from an incoming
inspection standpoint as some of the items could not be missed with even
the most cursory inspection of the items (thinking longeron length).
Excuses can be imagined centered around the ramp up of the new
subcontractor location and the emphasis to clear backlog of unhappy
customers, neither of which is good enough in my opinion.
In my business (fabricating aerospace parts) this would result in a
rejection and me having to remake the item to spec. I realize this is a
different world but this level of sloppiness is unacceptable IMO.
Glad I'm building a slow-build.
Don't get me wrong I love Van's but this doesn't live up to the standard
I'm used to seeing from them.
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
Message 26
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I understand that argument but don't buy it. It always costs less to do it
right the first time. This gets offset, somewhat, by the fact that a lot of
their "rework" costs are absorbed by the customer. I was a study once that
concluded it basically cost 10X to fix a mistake for every level in a supply
chain before the error was detected and corrected.
QC does not, in the long run, cost money but saves it as it prevents having
to do things over again. I would think, as the RV-12s ramp up this is going
to be a greater problem for them as they need to provide a better
documentation trail to deliver conforming kits to their certificate.
The kinds of mistakes Phil has documented just indicate there are no real
work standards or requirements placed on the subs. So as long as they get
away with it they have no incentive to change.
A good quality system doesn't prevent mistakes - it prevents making them
more than once.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Feedback
In talking to Van's, they say that they certainly could do better QC, but
that would raise the cost of every kit. For them, it's cheaper in the long
run to replace or fix mistakes than to spend what it would cost to fix them
before they go out the door, thus keeping down the cost of the kit.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Sep 29, 2009, at 1:13 PM, Richard Bibb wrote:
It is obvious from reading Phil's feedback that Van's subcontractor does not
have even a rudimentary QC System in place. It is also obvious that Van's
doesn't have much of a QC process in place either from an incoming
inspection standpoint as some of the items could not be missed with even the
most cursory inspection of the items (thinking longeron length).
Excuses can be imagined centered around the ramp up of the new subcontractor
location and the emphasis to clear backlog of unhappy customers, neither of
which is good enough in my opinion.
In my business (fabricating aerospace parts) this would result in a
rejection and me having to remake the item to spec. I realize this is a
different world but this level of sloppiness is unacceptable IMO.
Glad I'm building a slow-build.
Don't get me wrong I love Van's but this doesn't live up to the standard I'm
used to seeing from them.
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 27
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FYI we tested the lip under the ramp as you described with no noticeable
temp improvement. This was before we added the louvers so we may have
tried to overcome too much heat with this small mod. Obviously there are
many possible design solutions for this lip but our testing showed no
benefit. Again who knows if we cut back the trailing edge 0.5" or made a
wider lip or, or, or....
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: High Oil temps
<pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
I think the cowl flaps are creating a venturi effect that's sucking some
more of the air out of the lower cowl .... much like the louvers do. I
wonder if widening the ramp would be more effective with less drag.
Maybe a 'lip on the bottom of the ramp would also be beneficial. Just
wondering out loud!!!
Linn
do not archive
Albert Gardner wrote:
> I think I have my high oil temps problem under control finally. I
previously
> had added another oil cooler on the right side but still was seeing
temps
> climbing too high. I added 2 non-retractable cowl flaps on the bottom.
The
> rectangular opening in the cowl is 4 x 9 inches. The opening at the
rear is
> 2 x 4 inches. They are non-retractable because the mufflers would
interfere.
> This seems to be a final fix. I wish I had added the cowl flaps before
I
> tried the 2nd oil cooler.
> Albert Gardner
> Yuma, AZ
> N991RV
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Message 28
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Several ways to skin a cat here. Instead of cutting out the fiberglass I
sliced about a 1/4" off the back of the rivethead block on the bandsaw. I
then used the 1/4" thick piece in place of the front rivethead door block.
This allowed me to leave the front door pin much longer.
For the back door pin I sized that so it just clears the rivethead door
block. This gives me a fairly decent amount of the door pin through the
aluminum framing. I don't recall the exact depth it extends. I'll have to
look at it next time I install the doors (they aren't on the fuse at this
time).
I think I'll take a second look at it though at a later date and see if I
can get the rear pins to extend farther through the aluminum. I recall it
being 1/2" or so. That might be a bit slim if the door bows in flight very
much.
-Ben Westfall
-----Original Message-----
Jae
There is another solution, if I understand your problem, which is much
simpler & cheaper.
I had a problem in that after I mounted the nylon door blocks on the door
and then glassed them in, there was interference between the Rivet head
blocks & the door pins / nylon blocks on the door. I simply notched out the
fibreglass door frame so the Rivethead blocks now mount directly on the
aluminum frame (and not on the fibreglass)
Problem solved & I still have pins that extend into the door frame.
The advantage of this solution is that the gap between the Rivethead blocks
and the nylon door blocks is quite small so it a) helps ensure good door
alignment in the opening and b) minimizes the unsupported gap for the door
pin between the frame and the door blocks.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - still living in f/g hell
-----Original Message-----
I'll add my 2c to add to this discussion.
After installing my rivethead aero door guides, I realized that my door
pins did not retract enough into the door when latch is open. They stuck
out just enough, less than a 1/4", where they would not clear the guides
to let me close the door. However, I could twist the door slightly and
they would clear the guide. In the locked position, the aluminum door
pin just barely, 1/8" maybe, extends beyond the metal door frame for a
positive engagement. The Al door pins were cut right where the taper began.
Thus, I could shorten the Al door pin but that means I lose the 1/8"
engagement past the door frame.
Then I thought, what I really want is just a longer ratchet travel. IE,
from locked to fully open, I just want that travel to be a bit longer.
That means ordering new CRACK's - the sliding metal with teeth. For
whatever reason, just 1 of them costs $75 from Vans. I need 2 for L and
R doors, so that means $150 for a few inches of metal.
Thus, if I had to do over again, I would cut those CRACK's longer than
plans. You could always drill a hole anywhere along its length to put an
arbitrary stop at any point to make them shorter. What you cannot do is
make them longer again, unless you pay $150 for it.
Jae
40533
Message 29
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Hi Ben
I considered the approach you suggested but decided against it for a couple
of reasons. First, Cutting 1/4" off *neatly* would be difficult, at least
for me. Most importantly though is that it would mean reducing the depth
that the rear attach bolts on the Rivethead blocks "grab". I believe that
Steve Deniri's blocks screw in from the front so this wouldn't be a concern
for his blocks.
With notching, it is always easy to repair a mistake with a little flox and
epoxy. It is not so easy to fix poorly cut aluminum.
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: September-29-09 1:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Several ways to skin a cat here. Instead of cutting out the fiberglass I
sliced about a 1/4" off the back of the rivethead block on the bandsaw. I
then used the 1/4" thick piece in place of the front rivethead door block.
This allowed me to leave the front door pin much longer.
For the back door pin I sized that so it just clears the rivethead door
block. This gives me a fairly decent amount of the door pin through the
aluminum framing. I don't recall the exact depth it extends. I'll have to
look at it next time I install the doors (they aren't on the fuse at this
time).
I think I'll take a second look at it though at a later date and see if I
can get the rear pins to extend farther through the aluminum. I recall it
being 1/2" or so. That might be a bit slim if the door bows in flight very
much.
-Ben Westfall
-----Original Message-----
Jae
There is another solution, if I understand your problem, which is much
simpler & cheaper.
I had a problem in that after I mounted the nylon door blocks on the door
and then glassed them in, there was interference between the Rivet head
blocks & the door pins / nylon blocks on the door. I simply notched out the
fibreglass door frame so the Rivethead blocks now mount directly on the
aluminum frame (and not on the fibreglass)
Problem solved & I still have pins that extend into the door frame.
The advantage of this solution is that the gap between the Rivethead blocks
and the nylon door blocks is quite small so it a) helps ensure good door
alignment in the opening and b) minimizes the unsupported gap for the door
pin between the frame and the door blocks.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - still living in f/g hell
-----Original Message-----
I'll add my 2c to add to this discussion.
After installing my rivethead aero door guides, I realized that my door
pins did not retract enough into the door when latch is open. They stuck
out just enough, less than a 1/4", where they would not clear the guides
to let me close the door. However, I could twist the door slightly and
they would clear the guide. In the locked position, the aluminum door
pin just barely, 1/8" maybe, extends beyond the metal door frame for a
positive engagement. The Al door pins were cut right where the taper began.
Thus, I could shorten the Al door pin but that means I lose the 1/8"
engagement past the door frame.
Then I thought, what I really want is just a longer ratchet travel. IE,
from locked to fully open, I just want that travel to be a bit longer.
That means ordering new CRACK's - the sliding metal with teeth. For
whatever reason, just 1 of them costs $75 from Vans. I need 2 for L and
R doors, so that means $150 for a few inches of metal.
Thus, if I had to do over again, I would cut those CRACK's longer than
plans. You could always drill a hole anywhere along its length to put an
arbitrary stop at any point to make them shorter. What you cannot do is
make them longer again, unless you pay $150 for it.
Jae
40533
Message 30
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| Subject: | Trimming Control Column Mounts |
I'm about at this step, and Phil's QB feedback prompted this question
from me:
Is there any reason (other than to save weight) for trimming the control
column mounts? Would it cause interference problems with anything later?
Here's the step (copied from Phil's email)
28-4 Step #1) Radius the corners and remove material from the middle of
both control column mounts. (Remove hatched area).
-Jim 40384 (Its been a rough year, along with the death of a very close
friend.. Progress has been slow)
Message 31
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Hi Les,
Yes, I kept the door guide unmodified and instead shaved the fiberglass
down a bit, too. I didn't shave all the fiberglass out down to the
metal, though, because the fit seemed to work well this way for me. The
delrin blocks on the doors are forced into alignment by the rivethead
blocks when closing. I only shaved enough to create a flat spot for the
rivethead guide to sit on since the back of the rivethead guides are flat.
However, even still, the aluminum door tube was still too long for me. I
think the difference may be that, at the time, I was shooting for having
the aluminum tube extend thu the metal frame, goal #1. IE, if you
removed the rivethead pins, the aluminum tube still extended behind the
metal frame. That was the easy part. The problem was that the TUBE and
PIN would not fully recess into the delrin block on the door, goal #2.
To have goal #1 and goal #2 both, i think requires the longer latch travel.
I know plenty of people who only have the PINS go extend past the metal
door frame, which is probably what i'll end up doing too. I know a
builder who has expoxied his door pins in, which is probably a good idea
too.
I hope that explains it better. For most people, i think you can ignore
everything I have said. I just mentioned it in case someone decides to
shoot for the same goals mentioned above.
Jae
40533
Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Jae
>
> There is another solution, if I understand your problem, which is much
> simpler & cheaper.
>
> I had a problem in that after I mounted the nylon door blocks on the door
> and then glassed them in, there was interference between the Rivet head
> blocks & the door pins / nylon blocks on the door. I simply notched out the
> fibreglass door frame so the Rivethead blocks now mount directly on the
> aluminum frame (and not on the fibreglass)
>
> Problem solved & I still have pins that extend into the door frame.
>
> The advantage of this solution is that the gap between the Rivethead blocks
> and the nylon door blocks is quite small so it a) helps ensure good door
> alignment in the opening and b) minimizes the unsupported gap for the door
> pin between the frame and the door blocks.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> #40643 - still living in f/g hell
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil temps |
At one time I put some angle pieces of aluminum scrap along the bottom
of the cowl in a couple places, trying to make a few vortex generators
that would perhaps pull more air out the cowl. It did seem to me that
this helped. I don't have them on any longer, but I can see putting
them on and trying them again some day. Seemed like a little
easy benefit.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Linn Walters wrote:
>
> I think the cowl flaps are creating a venturi effect that's sucking some
> more of the air out of the lower cowl .... much like the louvers do. I
> wonder if widening the ramp would be more effective with less drag.
> Maybe a 'lip on the bottom of the ramp would also be beneficial. Just
> wondering out loud!!!
> Linn
> do not archive
>
> Albert Gardner wrote:
>> I think I have my high oil temps problem under control finally. I
>> previously
>> had added another oil cooler on the right side but still was seeing temps
>> climbing too high. I added 2 non-retractable cowl flaps on the bottom.
>> The
>> rectangular opening in the cowl is 4 x 9 inches. The opening at the
>> rear is
>> 2 x 4 inches. They are non-retractable because the mufflers would
>> interfere.
>> This seems to be a final fix. I wish I had added the cowl flaps before I
>> tried the 2nd oil cooler.
>> Albert Gardner
>> Yuma, AZ
>> N991RV
>>
Message 33
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IMHO, if you are using the aluminum guide set, why would it be necessary fo
r the pin to protrude into the metal part of the door frame.- Certainly t
he aluminum billet receiver isn't going to give up.- Nor are the 2 bolts
holding it in place.... that only leaves the original Van's tubing and the
aluminum pin.... if those go, it won't matter if it's through the metal doo
r frame or not, you're screwed.- Am I missing something here.- Why woul
d anyone leave that original Van's setup on their plane.- I installed it,
and after a few months through the building process, the alum tubing had g
orged/cut the receiver to death.- I knew that either I was going to make
something else, or someone else would.- This time, someone else did.
Don McDonald
--- On Tue, 9/29/09, Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com> wrote:
From: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
I'll add my 2c to add to this discussion.
After installing my rivethead aero door guides, I realized that my door pin
s did not retract enough into the door when latch is open. They stuck out j
ust enough, less than a 1/4", where they would not clear the guides to let
me close the door. However, I could twist the door slightly and they would
clear the guide. In the locked position, the aluminum door pin just barely,
1/8" maybe, extends beyond the metal door frame for a positive engagement.
The Al door pins were cut right where the taper began.
Thus, I could shorten the Al door pin but that means I lose the 1/8" engage
ment past the door frame.
Then I thought, what I really want is just a longer ratchet travel. IE, fro
m locked to fully open, I just want that travel to be a bit longer. That me
ans ordering new CRACK's - the sliding metal with teeth. For whatever reaso
n, just 1 of them costs $75 from Vans. I need 2 for L and R doors, so that
means $150 for a few inches of metal.
Thus, if I had to do over again, I would cut those CRACK's longer than plan
s. You could always drill a hole anywhere along its length to put an arbitr
ary stop at any point to make them shorter. What you cannot do is make them
longer again, unless you pay $150 for it.
Jae
40533
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 34
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"I just want that travel to be a bit longer.
That means ordering new CRACK's"
Remove the stop rivet from the shorter of the two, then re-rig to give yourself
a bit more throw. The remaining stop rivet will limit travel for both racks.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265614#265614
Message 35
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Jae
You may find that you have to revisit this *if* you decide to glass in the
nylon blocks that re recessed on the door. I made them flush all the way
round which reduced the clearance to the door mounted blocks.
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang
Sent: September-29-09 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door
Hi Les,
Yes, I kept the door guide unmodified and instead shaved the fiberglass
down a bit, too. I didn't shave all the fiberglass out down to the
metal, though, because the fit seemed to work well this way for me. The
delrin blocks on the doors are forced into alignment by the rivethead
blocks when closing. I only shaved enough to create a flat spot for the
rivethead guide to sit on since the back of the rivethead guides are flat.
However, even still, the aluminum door tube was still too long for me. I
think the difference may be that, at the time, I was shooting for having
the aluminum tube extend thu the metal frame, goal #1. IE, if you
removed the rivethead pins, the aluminum tube still extended behind the
metal frame. That was the easy part. The problem was that the TUBE and
PIN would not fully recess into the delrin block on the door, goal #2.
To have goal #1 and goal #2 both, i think requires the longer latch travel.
I know plenty of people who only have the PINS go extend past the metal
door frame, which is probably what i'll end up doing too. I know a
builder who has expoxied his door pins in, which is probably a good idea
too.
I hope that explains it better. For most people, i think you can ignore
everything I have said. I just mentioned it in case someone decides to
shoot for the same goals mentioned above.
Jae
40533
Les Kearney wrote:
>
> Jae
>
> There is another solution, if I understand your problem, which is much
> simpler & cheaper.
>
> I had a problem in that after I mounted the nylon door blocks on the door
> and then glassed them in, there was interference between the Rivet head
> blocks & the door pins / nylon blocks on the door. I simply notched out
the
> fibreglass door frame so the Rivethead blocks now mount directly on the
> aluminum frame (and not on the fibreglass)
>
> Problem solved & I still have pins that extend into the door frame.
>
> The advantage of this solution is that the gap between the Rivethead
blocks
> and the nylon door blocks is quite small so it a) helps ensure good door
> alignment in the opening and b) minimizes the unsupported gap for the door
> pin between the frame and the door blocks.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> #40643 - still living in f/g hell
>
>
Message 36
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Yes I definitely have less threads making contact in the rivethead block.
It's a balancing act between bottoming out the an bolt in the rivethead
block and adding enough washers on the bolt head side to keep it from
bottoming but still getting enough threads to grab.
I actually was able to free hand the cut on the bandsaw and it came out
pretty good. The cut side is a bit rough but I put that side toward the
fiberglass.
I thought about your method too and what steered me this way is that I was
leery of cutting into the fiberglass at that point as the door posts are
essentially the "roll bar" if you will. Does the load from the door posts
transfer all the way down to the horizontal deck or is it held by the AN
hardware through the aluminum posts above the door blocks? Would that size
hold in the post change the structural integrity? I really don't know.
I have thought about ordering the Deniri blocks to get around the bolt
"grab" issues. I still might...
-Ben
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Hi Ben
I considered the approach you suggested but decided against it for a couple
of reasons. First, Cutting 1/4" off *neatly* would be difficult, at least
for me. Most importantly though is that it would mean reducing the depth
that the rear attach bolts on the Rivethead blocks "grab". I believe that
Steve Deniri's blocks screw in from the front so this wouldn't be a concern
for his blocks.
With notching, it is always easy to repair a mistake with a little flox and
epoxy. It is not so easy to fix poorly cut aluminum.
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: September-29-09 1:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
Several ways to skin a cat here. Instead of cutting out the fiberglass I
sliced about a 1/4" off the back of the rivethead block on the bandsaw. I
then used the 1/4" thick piece in place of the front rivethead door block.
This allowed me to leave the front door pin much longer.
For the back door pin I sized that so it just clears the rivethead door
block. This gives me a fairly decent amount of the door pin through the
aluminum framing. I don't recall the exact depth it extends. I'll have to
look at it next time I install the doors (they aren't on the fuse at this
time).
I think I'll take a second look at it though at a later date and see if I
can get the rear pins to extend farther through the aluminum. I recall it
being 1/2" or so. That might be a bit slim if the door bows in flight very
much.
-Ben Westfall
-----Original Message-----
Jae
There is another solution, if I understand your problem, which is much
simpler & cheaper.
I had a problem in that after I mounted the nylon door blocks on the door
and then glassed them in, there was interference between the Rivet head
blocks & the door pins / nylon blocks on the door. I simply notched out the
fibreglass door frame so the Rivethead blocks now mount directly on the
aluminum frame (and not on the fibreglass)
Problem solved & I still have pins that extend into the door frame.
The advantage of this solution is that the gap between the Rivethead blocks
and the nylon door blocks is quite small so it a) helps ensure good door
alignment in the opening and b) minimizes the unsupported gap for the door
pin between the frame and the door blocks.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - still living in f/g hell
-----Original Message-----
I'll add my 2c to add to this discussion.
After installing my rivethead aero door guides, I realized that my door
pins did not retract enough into the door when latch is open. They stuck
out just enough, less than a 1/4", where they would not clear the guides
to let me close the door. However, I could twist the door slightly and
they would clear the guide. In the locked position, the aluminum door
pin just barely, 1/8" maybe, extends beyond the metal door frame for a
positive engagement. The Al door pins were cut right where the taper began.
Thus, I could shorten the Al door pin but that means I lose the 1/8"
engagement past the door frame.
Then I thought, what I really want is just a longer ratchet travel. IE,
from locked to fully open, I just want that travel to be a bit longer.
That means ordering new CRACK's - the sliding metal with teeth. For
whatever reason, just 1 of them costs $75 from Vans. I need 2 for L and
R doors, so that means $150 for a few inches of metal.
Thus, if I had to do over again, I would cut those CRACK's longer than
plans. You could always drill a hole anywhere along its length to put an
arbitrary stop at any point to make them shorter. What you cannot do is
make them longer again, unless you pay $150 for it.
Jae
40533
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil temps |
Here's what I did.... pretty sure-it helped, but I didn't fly for 3-4 wee
ks while the plane was being painted.- Temps are manageable, but I've got
a couple of more ideas up the ole sleeve.
If these pics are too big, please don't open.
Don McDonald
--- On Tue, 9/29/09, Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: High Oil temps
At one time I put some angle pieces of aluminum scrap along the bottom
of the cowl in a couple places, trying to make a few vortex generators
that would perhaps pull more air out the cowl.- It did seem to me that
this helped.- I don't have them on any longer, but I can see putting
them on and trying them again some day.- Seemed like a little
easy benefit.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Linn Walters wrote:
>
> I think the cowl flaps are creating a venturi effect that's sucking some
more of the air out of the lower cowl .... much like the louvers do.- I w
onder if widening the ramp would be more effective with less drag. Maybe a
'lip on the bottom of the ramp would also be beneficial. Just wondering out
loud!!!
> Linn
> do not archive
>
> Albert Gardner wrote:
>> I think I have my high oil temps problem under control finally. I previo
usly
>> had added another oil cooler on the right side but still was seeing temp
s
>> climbing too high. I added 2 non-retractable cowl flaps on the bottom. T
he
>> rectangular opening in the cowl is 4 x 9 inches. The opening at the rear
is
>> 2 x 4 inches. They are non-retractable because the mufflers would interf
ere.
>> This seems to be a final fix. I wish I had added the cowl flaps before I
>> tried the 2nd oil cooler.
>> Albert Gardner
>> Yuma, AZ
>> N991RV
>>
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 38
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The Wal-Mart version sounds like a really good way to go, however I can't
seem to verify that the SC-1200A is the same as the 12248. Besides looking
different, the 12248 includes a temperature sensor and the Wal-Mart version
does not appear to. Also, FWIW, on one website there was a huge qualifier
at the top of the page for the 12248 saying not for aviation batteries.
I have to admit I jumped in toward the end of the e-mail train on this so
sorry if I'm on covered ground. I'd sure like to get the cheaper version
but want to make sure it's legit.
Thanks,
Marcus
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil White
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 12:42 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Chargers
Schumacher chargers are automatic, have an AGM setting and de-sulfating.
Their 12248 is also sold at Wal-Mart as model SC-1200A. I bought one today
for $45. Less than half what I saw advertized on several web sites.
If you're using PC680's or other Odyssey models, this looks like the best
option to keep them in great shape.
Phil
#40220 in Downers Grove, IL (finished cowl over 20B rotary)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265178#265178
Message 39
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| Subject: | Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested |
Kevin, what engine do you have? Is it stock IO-540 or "built" w 9:1's,
electronic ignition, etc?
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ram Air Oil Cooler Inlet - input requested
Attaching a pic of my louvers. One on each side. Have 15 hrs on ac with new
IO 540. After first 5 hrs CHT's have settled down to 350-380. Oil temps have
never exceeded 190. Stock Van's cowl, cooler etc. In Vt so oat not like the
southwest. Max temp flown 85. I believe the louver is a key variable. Built
a Glastar with O360 with cooler on firewall. had a horrible time with oil
temps and had to move cooler to front baffle. Did not use a louver but felt
that could make a big difference which I think has been the case with the RV
10. The 10 is a great airplane.
Message 40
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Sad to see that the door issue has come back to the fore. If I recall, this
was on my list of issues that got slammed awhile back. Looking forward to a
tested solution that involves both a primary and secondary latch, such as
autos have. Would the strap be strong enough for secondary? Not sure. I
think Tim James has designed such. John Cox, do you remember Tim's
solution? Maybe I can get out to his hanger and take some pics.
John J
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: FW: RV10-List: door
It's really essential that everyone have some improved way of keeping the
doors closed: our metal door blocks are one way, buy you could also make
your own, get Rivetheads, use a strap or something. This is happening a LOT
and it's only a matter of time until the results are very bad.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:02 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
I believe you may be referring to 416EC; I think the number has now been
changed and the aircraft sold. I don't rely on a system. I close the doors
and check the pins both fore and aft, both sides, when we load and before
takeoff.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door
That kinda sucks! I've been working on the door latches over the weekend
and thinking about the last time I saw this happen. The landing was real
firm and the front end was twisted up to the firewall.
<http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w4/pr01/ltr/emoticons/smile_sad.gif>
_____
From: dlm46007@cox.net
Subject: RV10-List: door
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 78MU Make/Model: EXP Description: RV-10
Date: 09/26/2009 Time: 1827
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: JEFFERSON CITY State: MO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAKEOFF, PASSENGER DOOR SEPARATED FROM AIRCRAFT, LANDED
WITHOUT
INCIDENT, JEFFERSON CITY, MO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: SCT029 BKN045 260/08G15 10SM A2995
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Insert movie times and more without leaving HotmailR. See how.
<http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutor
ial_QuickAdd_062009>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
========
=
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 41
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The aviation use 12248 versions have fewer option/buttons. They are idiot
proof. If you can deal with the extra buttons you can save the bucks. Go to
the manufacturer site and read the PDFs. For example the Odyssey battery
charger does not allow you to select the type of battery; that is gone. Add
$40. I guess it will charge the "certified Odyssey 680" used on some Pipers.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 2:43 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Chargers
The Wal-Mart version sounds like a really good way to go, however I can't
seem to verify that the SC-1200A is the same as the 12248. Besides looking
different, the 12248 includes a temperature sensor and the Wal-Mart version
does not appear to. Also, FWIW, on one website there was a huge qualifier
at the top of the page for the 12248 saying not for aviation batteries.
I have to admit I jumped in toward the end of the e-mail train on this so
sorry if I'm on covered ground. I'd sure like to get the cheaper version
but want to make sure it's legit.
Thanks,
Marcus
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil White
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 12:42 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Chargers
Schumacher chargers are automatic, have an AGM setting and de-sulfating.
Their 12248 is also sold at Wal-Mart as model SC-1200A. I bought one today
for $45. Less than half what I saw advertized on several web sites.
If you're using PC680's or other Odyssey models, this looks like the best
option to keep them in great shape.
Phil
#40220 in Downers Grove, IL (finished cowl over 20B rotary)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265178#265178
Message 42
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I don't know how it got started but the 12248 is definitely not the
same as the sc-1200a. They're made by different companies. They both
have odyssey versions and both seem to have settings on standard
models that would work fine but require the user to properly choose
the setting, as opposed to being a single-purpose charger. The
absolutely safest bet is buy the aviation 12248. The cheapest route
is the 1562 model at walmart. The sc1200a I got because the AGM
setting is supposed to be the same as the odyssey version of the
unit. If just wanting the easiest choice though, just buy the
aviation 12248 version....then you will sleep well. I don't think the
Schumacher chargers desulfate as a routine procedure but as a recovery
procedure.
Tim
On Sep 29, 2009, at 4:42 PM, "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> The Wal-Mart version sounds like a really good way to go, however I
> can't
> seem to verify that the SC-1200A is the same as the 12248. Besides
> looking
> different, the 12248 includes a temperature sensor and the Wal-Mart
> version
> does not appear to. Also, FWIW, on one website there was a huge
> qualifier
> at the top of the page for the 12248 saying not for aviation
> batteries.
>
> I have to admit I jumped in toward the end of the e-mail train on
> this so
> sorry if I'm on covered ground. I'd sure like to get the cheaper
> version
> but want to make sure it's legit.
>
> Thanks,
> Marcus
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil White
> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 12:42 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Chargers
>
>
> Schumacher chargers are automatic, have an AGM setting and de-
> sulfating.
> Their 12248 is also sold at Wal-Mart as model SC-1200A. I bought
> one today
> for $45. Less than half what I saw advertized on several web sites.
> If you're using PC680's or other Odyssey models, this looks like
> the best
> option to keep them in great shape.
>
> Phil
> #40220 in Downers Grove, IL (finished cowl over 20B rotary)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265178#265178
>
>
Message 43
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Makes one wonder if a spring loaded latch pin engaging through the sill
vertically at the center of the door would help. Visualize a door latch,
that is flat on one side (to facilitate latching) and rounded on the other.
It would make getting out of the plane a "two-latch" affair, but may prevent
the in-air mating of a door to the horizontal stab...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil & Sarah
Colliver
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:36 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Door bulge
Here is an air to air pic + enlargement.
Speed was only about 110 knts max as the photo ship was a C182.
On the ground the door is perfectly flush all around, with no visible
bulge at the leading edge, nor at the bottom.
In flight I have not noticed it moving out, but we have a thick lining
material there. But the bulge is definitely visible in these pics. Our
pins go right into the frame as per Vans instructions, but it serves
as a reminder to ensure that the front pins have plenty of engagement.
We also have the Vans door warning system and that hasn't illumintated
in flight.
Nor is there any feeling of a draught at all, so the seals obviously
do their job well.
Neil
Message 44
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One RV-10 at OSH had just what you suggest. Owner had door come open and
off before rotation, and was able to abort, and door did not hit
anything to damage airframe. He was not about to have a second event, so
put latch with clevis pins vertically through bottom of each door. I
don't think I got a picture, but if I look, I can get the tail number.
Bob and Karen Brown wrote:
>
> Makes one wonder if a spring loaded latch pin engaging through the sill
> vertically at the center of the door would help. Visualize a door latch,
> that is flat on one side (to facilitate latching) and rounded on the other.
> It would make getting out of the plane a "two-latch" affair, but may prevent
> the in-air mating of a door to the horizontal stab...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil & Sarah
> Colliver
> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:36 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Door bulge
>
> Here is an air to air pic + enlargement.
>
> Speed was only about 110 knts max as the photo ship was a C182.
>
> On the ground the door is perfectly flush all around, with no visible
> bulge at the leading edge, nor at the bottom.
>
> In flight I have not noticed it moving out, but we have a thick lining
> material there. But the bulge is definitely visible in these pics. Our
> pins go right into the frame as per Vans instructions, but it serves
> as a reminder to ensure that the front pins have plenty of engagement.
> We also have the Vans door warning system and that hasn't illumintated
> in flight.
>
> Nor is there any feeling of a draught at all, so the seals obviously
> do their job well.
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
Thanks Dave, that's great advice.- The bellcranks are in place and I'll t
est fit the pushrods (main and aileron actuation).=0A=0ARegards=0A=0APat=0A
=0ADo Not Archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Da
vid McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesda
y, 29 September, 2009 10:36:27 PM=0ASubject: RE: RV10-List: Before Closing
Up The Bottom Skins?=0A=0A=0AThe bellcranks should be there; I don't think
they will impact bucking. The pushrods should be sized and test fitted. Fin
al install can take place after bucking. Also be sure that every attach poi
nt for the wiring is accessible from an access panel. Don't clamp the wirin
g bundle somewhere it can not be reached for removal or repair. =0A=0A=0A__
______________________________=0AFrom: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
=0ASent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 12:18 AM=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com
=0ASubject: Re: RV10-List: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins?=0A=0A=0ADavi
d, should I install these before riveting on the bottom wing skins?=0A=0ARe
gards=0A=0APat=0A=0ADo Not Archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________________
______=0AFrom: David McNeill <dlm46007@cox.net>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.c
om=0ASent: Tuesday, 29 September, 2009 1:03:56 AM=0ASubject: RE: RV10-List:
Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins?=0A=0A=0Apushrods and bellcranks.=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: owner-rv10-list-server@matronic
s.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pu
lis=0ASent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:22 AM=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.co
m=0ASubject: RV10-List: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins?=0A=0A=0AI am se
eking some wise words of advice from the pioneers that have gone before me
please, just to make sure that I've covered all my bases-before closing t
he bottom skins.=0A=0ACould someone please tell me if there-are any prude
nt things that I should-consider prior to riveting on the bottom wing ski
ns?=0A=0ATo date, I have routed all the wiring through conduits which pass
through the ribs; installed the pitot mast and plumbed the pitot line; inst
alled the pitot heater module; installed the roll servo and I've assembled
the aileron trim mechanism.=0A=0AIs there anything that I may have forgotte
n to do please, you advice would be very much appreciated?=0A=0AKind regard
s from down under.=0A=0APatrick Pulis=0A#40299--------- V
H-XPP=0AAdelaide, South Australia-=0A________________________________=0AG
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Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
John, did you have any issues with bucking the rivets?=0A=0AAny tips for ri
vetting the bottom wing skins?=0A=0AMany thanks for your response John.=0A
=0ARegards=0A=0APat=0A=0ADo Not Archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________
___________=0AFrom: johngoodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net>=0ATo: rv10-list
@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, 29 September, 2009 10:41:44 PM=0ASubject: R
V10-List: Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins?=0A=0A--> RV10-List messag
e posted by: "johngoodman" <johngoodman@earthlink.net>=0A=0ATo answer your
question, I installed everything, including the push rods before closing.
=0AJohn=0A=0A--------=0A#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit prog
ressing. Engine & Panel delivery soon.=0AN711JG reserved=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
Read this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php
=0A=0A=0A ____________________________________________________________
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Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil temps |
Group...
Trying to understand how prevalent of a problem high oil temps are with the -10.
I've purchased the 2006x from Airflow. I'm in Iowa so definitely don't have
the temps of AZ but daughter is in San Antonio and make that trip a few times
a year. It'd sure be easier to deal with now while building instead of later
if I'm going to have to.
Thoughts?
Doug
--------
Doug
"Fools" are always more creative than process people and will always
find ways to ruin a perfectly good set of processes.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265651#265651
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
FWIW - I think I made similar comments previously but -
I did mine in a vertical stand, one person.
I found that a small tungsten bar was very handy but not exclusively.
The lighter, bigger iron bucking blocks were also useful
Thank Deems for the safety wire technique to hold up the skins (see
photo if I successfully attached one)
Remember to check that the skin doesn't overlap or bind on the leading
edge skins - I had to file mine down to fit well - It's painful if you
find out too late
Patrick Pulis wrote:
> John, did you have any issues with bucking the rivets?
>
> Any tips for rivetting the bottom wing skins?
>
> Many thanks for your response John.
>
> Regards
>
> Pat
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* johngoodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 29 September, 2009 10:41:44 PM
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins?
>
> <johngoodman@earthlink.net <mailto:johngoodman@earthlink.net>>
>
> To answer your question, I installed everything, including the push
> rods before closing.
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine
> & Panel delivery soon.
> N711JG reserved
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265529#26552r?RV10-List"
> target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265529#265529>
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265529#265529>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail.
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265529#265529> Learn more
> <%20http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/launch09/tagline/*http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTFnY201cHJnBHRtX2RtZWNoA1RleHQgTGluawR0bV9sbmsDVTExMDQ3NjAEdG1fbmV0A1lhaG9vIQ--/SIG=11aljvgo4/*http%3A//au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/%20>.
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> *
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>
> *
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: High Oil temps |
Doug,
I live in Omaha and almost always see oil temps of 195-197. I flew down to San
Antonio in mid August and saw 210 during climbout down there but the temp came
down during cruise.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
Sent: Tue Sep 29 22:23:48 2009
Subject: RV10-List: Re: High Oil temps
Group...
Trying to understand how prevalent of a problem high oil temps are with the -10.
I've purchased the 2006x from Airflow. I'm in Iowa so definitely don't have
the temps of AZ but daughter is in San Antonio and make that trip a few times
a year. It'd sure be easier to deal with now while building instead of later
if I'm going to have to.
Thoughts?
Doug
--------
Doug
"Fools" are always more creative than process people and will always
find ways to ruin a perfectly good set of processes.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265651#265651
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins? |
Hey Bill,
ANC in the shop? Maybe a MP3 player in the mix too?
Now that's hearing protection!
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson [mailto:MauleDriver@nc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins?
FWIW - I think I made similar comments previously but - I did mine in a
vertical stand, one person.
I found that a small tungsten bar was very handy but not exclusively.
The lighter, bigger iron bucking blocks were also useful Thank Deems for
the safety wire technique to hold up the skins (see photo if I
successfully attached one) Remember to check that the skin doesn't
overlap or bind on the leading edge skins - I had to file mine down to
fit well - It's painful if you find out too late
Patrick Pulis wrote:
> John, did you have any issues with bucking the rivets?
>
> Any tips for rivetting the bottom wing skins?
>
> Many thanks for your response John.
>
> Regards
>
> Pat
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> *From:* johngoodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 29 September, 2009 10:41:44 PM
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Re: Before Closing Up The Bottom Skins?
>
> <johngoodman@earthlink.net <mailto:johngoodman@earthlink.net>>
>
> To answer your question, I installed everything, including the push
> rods before closing.
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine
> & Panel delivery soon.
> N711JG reserved
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265529#26552r?RV10-List"
> target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265529#265529>
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265529#265529>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail.
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265529#265529> Learn more
>
<%20http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/launch09/tagline/*http://us.lrd.yahoo.co
m/_ylc=X3oDMTFnY201cHJnBHRtX2RtZWNoA1RleHQgTGluawR0bV9sbmsDVTExMDQ3NjAEd
G1fbmV0A1lhaG9vIQ--/SIG=11aljvgo4/*http%3A//au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/%
20>.
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Message 51
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Here it is.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Door bulge
One RV-10 at OSH had just what you suggest. Owner had door come open and
off before rotation, and was able to abort, and door did not hit
anything to damage airframe. He was not about to have a second event, so
put latch with clevis pins vertically through bottom of each door. I
don't think I got a picture, but if I look, I can get the tail number.
Bob and Karen Brown wrote:
<bkbrown@minetfiber.com>
>
> Makes one wonder if a spring loaded latch pin engaging through the sill
> vertically at the center of the door would help. Visualize a door latch,
> that is flat on one side (to facilitate latching) and rounded on the
other.
> It would make getting out of the plane a "two-latch" affair, but may
prevent
> the in-air mating of a door to the horizontal stab...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil & Sarah
> Colliver
> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:36 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Door bulge
>
> Here is an air to air pic + enlargement.
>
> Speed was only about 110 knts max as the photo ship was a C182.
>
> On the ground the door is perfectly flush all around, with no visible
> bulge at the leading edge, nor at the bottom.
>
> In flight I have not noticed it moving out, but we have a thick lining
> material there. But the bulge is definitely visible in these pics. Our
> pins go right into the frame as per Vans instructions, but it serves
> as a reminder to ensure that the front pins have plenty of engagement.
> We also have the Vans door warning system and that hasn't illumintated
> in flight.
>
> Nor is there any feeling of a draught at all, so the seals obviously
> do their job well.
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 52
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Thanks DLM and David -- either a tapped screw or cotter key is better than what
I've got now and I will replace them.
R.e. the bulging door problem, I like the idea of the baggage door type lock in
the middle of the doors, rotating into a slot in the bottom sill -- if that can
be operated from the inside, that would do double duty.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting done!
On with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265664#265664
Message 53
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I don't recall who had the bulging door but it may be due to insufficient
epoxy inside the two halves of the door. No one else seems to have the
bulging door problem and it would seem that the door is flexing outward,
probably because of insufficient stiffness in the lower door , fore to aft.
Another possibility is that the door is too wide for the opening and
although the pins engage, they are not a single pin and therefore bow
outward at the latch mechanism. Another possibility for the outward flex is
insufficient stiffness and a low pressure area since if the fuselage is
viewed from above the entire fuselage does have an airfoil shape.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: door
Thanks DLM and David -- either a tapped screw or cotter key is better than
what I've got now and I will replace them.
R.e. the bulging door problem, I like the idea of the baggage door type lock
in the middle of the doors, rotating into a slot in the bottom sill -- if
that can be operated from the inside, that would do double duty.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting done!
On with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265664#265664
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