Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:31 AM - OT - can a plane fly and land with 1 wing redux - WARNING - way Off Topic (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
2. 07:44 AM - Re: OT - can a plane fly and land with 1 wing redux - WARNING - way Off Topic (Linn Walters)
3. 09:45 AM - Re: AFS - Alternator Warning (hsdexo)
4. 10:43 AM - Re: OT - can a plane fly and land with 1 wing redux - WARNING - way Off Topic (Chris Colohan)
5. 04:49 PM - Re: Copperstate RV10 nest (Jim Berry)
6. 05:09 PM - Re: Re: AFS - Alternator Warning (Jim)
7. 05:09 PM - Re: Re: Copperstate RV10 nest (David McNeill)
8. 06:42 PM - Re: AFS - Alternator Warning (Jim)
9. 07:21 PM - Re: Re: AFS - Alternator Warning (David McNeill)
10. 07:27 PM - BPE IO-540, VS LS-2 (Thane States)
11. 07:40 PM - fuel transducer (rvdave)
Message 1
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| Subject: | OT - can a plane fly and land with 1 wing redux - WARNING - |
way Off Topic
I'm pretty sure the video of that plane losing a wing during some acro
and landing successfully was passed around here. In any case, it was a
fraud; apparently some footage of an RC model plane losing a wing was
doctored together with some full scale footage to come up with fraud.
I ran across this which I also assumed to be a fraud - perhaps related
to the above one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFH7u93_W18
(it's 6 mins long and the wing event happens at the very end, but the
preamble is relevant)
However, my RC flying brother tells me, straight faced, that it is not
a fraud. It shows a freestyle type RC model losing a wing after quite a
bit of extreme flying, and then, well, landing normally after some
knife-edge flight.
There's enough visual noise in this video to support a fraud theory but
I'm now convinced it's the real deal.
I had to talk this through with my brother who does fly RC pattern (not
freestyle) competitively, and came to the following understanding:
- these large RC models are very light and very high powered with
control systems to match
- they are no longer "flying on the wing" but "flying on the prop"
- control surfaces are big and they have extreme deflections
- the kid flying this thing trains on a simulator (there's an
interesting blurb on the video alluding to this)
Then I did a YouTube search on "Tucson 2009 shootout" to look at similar
videos of freestyle flying. I get it now. I mean I've seen this stuff,
but the wing coming off and the subsequent landing gave me an excuse to
get in to it a bit. Stuff sure has evolved since I played around with it.
On a related but somewhat sad note, a noted RC pattern competitor, Chip
Hyde, apparently burned down his house while charging some Lithuim
batteries a few days ago. With all the electric flight excitement going
around, isn't it ironic that explosions and fire are still the main
dangers in these petrol-free aircraft?
Bill Watson
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: OT - can a plane fly and land with 1 wing redux - WARNING |
- way Off Topic
Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote:
> <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>
> I'm pretty sure the video of that plane losing a wing during some acro
> and landing successfully was passed around here. In any case, it was a
> fraud; apparently some footage of an RC model plane losing a wing was
> doctored together with some full scale footage to come up with fraud.
Fraud? Like 'magic' is fraud? The spliced footage (artfully done) led
you to believe that a real airplane with living pilot survived a loss of
wing.
>
> I ran across this which I also assumed to be a fraud - perhaps related
> to the above one:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFH7u93_W18
> (it's 6 mins long and the wing event happens at the very end, but the
> preamble is relevant)
Same category, but not with any attempt to lead you down a 'magical' path.
>
> However, my RC flying brother tells me, straight faced, that it is not
> a fraud. It shows a freestyle type RC model losing a wing after quite a
> bit of extreme flying, and then, well, landing normally after some
> knife-edge flight.
>
> There's enough visual noise in this video to support a fraud theory but
> I'm now convinced it's the real deal.
It is.
>
> I had to talk this through with my brother who does fly RC pattern (not
> freestyle) competitively, and came to the following understanding:
> - these large RC models are very light and very high powered with
> control systems to match
> - they are no longer "flying on the wing" but "flying on the prop"
> - control surfaces are big and they have extreme deflections
> - the kid flying this thing trains on a simulator (there's an
> interesting blurb on the video alluding to this)
You nailed it! These large models can hang on the prop and do verticals
that real aerobatic pilots only dream of!
>
> Then I did a YouTube search on "Tucson 2009 shootout" to look at similar
> videos of freestyle flying. I get it now. I mean I've seen this stuff,
> but the wing coming off and the subsequent landing gave me an excuse to
> get in to it a bit. Stuff sure has evolved since I played around with it.
>
> On a related but somewhat sad note, a noted RC pattern competitor, Chip
> Hyde, apparently burned down his house while charging some Lithuim
> batteries a few days ago. With all the electric flight excitement going
> around, isn't it ironic that explosions and fire are still the main
> dangers in these petrol-free aircraft?
Yeah, dangers abound in any hobby. The other problem modelers with jets
have is they get a large oxygen bottle to fill a smaller bottle that
they take to the field ..... and you know how Oxygen loves to turn
combustibles into roaring fires. Been there, done that, got the shirt!
Amazing how quickly us humans learn!!!
Linn
>
> Bill Watson
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: AFS - Alternator Warning |
Jim, on another note, what type alternator do you have installed?[/quote]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267929#267929
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: OT - can a plane fly and land with 1 wing redux - WARNING |
- way Off Topic
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:34 AM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
> You nailed it! These large models can hang on the prop and do verticals
>> that real aerobatic pilots only dream of!
>
>
> Actually -- even the smaller park flyers these days can be configured with
way more thrust than mass. I have a 38" wingspan Mini Ultra Stick with a
Park 480 motor -- and I can launch it by holding it pointing straight up,
advancing the throttle, and letting go.
Search youtube for some videos of modern R/C planes (or, more amazingly,
helicopters) to be amazed at what LiPo batteries can now do. For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8t41avFuCc
Chris
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Copperstate RV10 nest |
Myron,
Count me in please. I will be pulling in to the camp ground mid- to late afternoon
Thurs. and looking forward to meeting everyone. Thanks.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267981#267981
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: AFS - Alternator Warning |
I am using the 60 amp alternator that comes with the Vans Firewall Forward
kit I think it is the plane power alternator? I will check
when I get back out to the hanger.
I now have the AMP voice
alert enabled with the yellow limit at 3 amps and the red limit at 2
amps. I also raised the volts yellow warning to 12.5 volts and the
red to 12.0 volts.
Now the amps warning happens as soon as the
alternator goes off line and the voltage warning occurs some 20 minutes
later (960 battery) with almost 45 minutes of battery until com transmit
fails. Com transmit fails first (SL-30).
The two pilots
flying agreed to have the pilot (left seat) fly the airplane, co-pilot
manage ATC / radios. They switched the transponder to "No
Comm" which alerted ATC of the issue. They used transponder
IDent to "Acknowledge" ATC instructions at which point they were
given first priority on getting to the runway (17 minutes)
later.
Battery voltage was 7 volts on shutdown. Electronic ignition was
operational and EFIS was on battery backup.
Both pilots and
myself learned a lot from this experience.
I will add a
fuse status set of indicators to show a blown fuse. Never leave any
of the electronics setting to change check them all. Both pilots
experienced and handled an in-flight problem with calm team work and ATC
was very helpful in working them to the airport in an orderly
fashion. I also learned that the battery has LOTS of power to run
the airplane for quite a long while before any system start failing or
going to backup. But the systems need to alert the pilot ASAP. of a
condition out of tolerance. Thats the beauty of the EFIS systems
today.
This was all during daytime VFR conditions.
Thanks, Jim C
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Copperstate RV10 nest |
I assume its Thursday the 22nd.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Berry
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 4:49 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Copperstate RV10 nest
Myron,
Count me in please. I will be pulling in to the camp ground mid- to late
afternoon Thurs. and looking forward to meeting everyone. Thanks.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267981#267981
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: AFS - Alternator Warning |
This was not an alternator failure.
The fuse in the alternator
field opened.
To the naked eye, it appeared to be OK.
I
had to use a multi-meter to verify it
was open.
The
alternator works great.
During normal flight, we are pulling
about 6 amps from the alternator.
This will increase with the
addition of the
430W.
On another note, TruTrak called and
provided
a RMA number for the autopilot. It is now back
to
them to have the display changed out and
the buttons / firmware
updated to the documented
AFS configuration in their latest users
manual.
Thanks, Jim C (N312F - 120+ hours)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: AFS - Alternator Warning |
I suggest revising your yellow warning to 13 Volts to indicate your
alternator is off line; recommend red setting at 12.6V. standard voltage
will be 12.6-12.8 for a fully charged battery without load. Setting voltage
limits a little higher will allow earlier warning of charging problems.
Seven volts is quite low and most avionics will not run reliably at that
value; particularly IFR approach instrumentation.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: AFS - Alternator Warning
I am using the 60 amp alternator that comes with the Vans Firewall Forward
kit I think it is the plane power alternator? I will check when I get back
out to the hanger.
I now have the AMP voice alert enabled with the yellow limit at 3 amps and
the red limit at 2 amps. I also raised the volts yellow warning to 12.5
volts and the red to 12.0 volts.
Now the amps warning happens as soon as the alternator goes off line and the
voltage warning occurs some 20 minutes later (960 battery) with almost 45
minutes of battery until com transmit fails. Com transmit fails first
(SL-30).
The two pilots flying agreed to have the pilot (left seat) fly the airplane,
co-pilot manage ATC / radios. They switched the transponder to "No Comm"
which alerted ATC of the issue. They used transponder IDent to
"Acknowledge" ATC instructions at which point they were given first priority
on getting to the runway (17 minutes)
later. Battery voltage was 7 volts on shutdown. Electronic ignition was
operational and EFIS was on battery backup.
Both pilots and myself learned a lot from this experience.
I will add a fuse status set of indicators to show a blown fuse. Never
leave any of the electronics setting to change check them all. Both pilots
experienced and handled an in-flight problem with calm team work and ATC was
very helpful in working them to the airport in an orderly fashion. I also
learned that the battery has LOTS of power to run the airplane for quite a
long while before any system start failing or going to backup. But the
systems need to alert the pilot ASAP. of a condition out of tolerance.
Thats the beauty of the EFIS systems today.
This was all during daytime VFR conditions.
Thanks, Jim C
Message 10
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| Subject: | BPE IO-540, VS LS-2 |
Just thought I would post some comparisons of a flight from Oshkosh this
year.
I am not trying to stir up the pot, but rather offer some very basic
info I got when I flew with another RV-10 this year.
As you all know there is a huge debate about the merits of auto
conversions, vs. standard power plants.
FACTS:
My RV-10 :was loaded with full fuel, 60 gallons.
3, pax. and camping gear.
I have the BPE IO-540; 288 h.p. CAI. Hartzell blended 2
blade prop.
James plenum and holy cowl, and main wheel pants.
Other RV-10 : loaded with 50 gallons of fuel, due to fuel leak.
2 pax. and camping gear, lots of tools.
LS-2; 350 h.p. 3 blade prop, not sure which one.
We took off in loose formation climbing up to 11,500
After my initial pwr. reduction to 25" 2500 rpm, I was told by the
other RV-10 that I was pulling away from him, so I pulled the pwr back
to around 23" and he said he was able to keep up.
Later in cruise, I was again asked to pull back due to pulling away
from him.
I finally ran at 55% pwr LOP. 10 GPH. And he was comfortable and
kept up fine.
However, After we compared stats, he advised me that he was burning
13-14 GPH. When I was still at 10 GPH.
We continued on our flight constantly comparing #'s We ran approx.
the same prop speed and pwr settings as stated.
However after around 2:45 in cruise and 10 minutes from fuel stop,
the other RV-10 stated that he had only 30 minutes of fuel left, when I
had 3 hrs. left.
We did find out that the other tank might have had a fuel leak in
it as well. This is what he told me I could no validate that, just
interesting, I thought.
So just my observation. I could clearly pull away from a much more
powerful LS-2 powered RV-10 in climb and in cruise. And all the while
burning far less gas.
Again none of this was pre planned and at all scientific. Just 2
RV-10'S having fun and heading in the same direction on a beautiful day.
I don't know at what speed he would have been able to keep up and I
don't know how accurate his fuel burn #'s were, I know mine are close
to spot on!!
Just thought I would share this info with those who may be on the fence
about pwr. plant choice.
I know I could not be more pleased with my engine choice!
Thane States
#40337
Message 11
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I'm at the point of installing the fuel lines, AFP fuel pump, filter, and wondering
which fuel flow transducer should be used? Wondering if I should just wait
to see which monitoring system I use and whatever transducer comes with it
or plan around a more accurate or known stable device? What are your experiences?
--------
Dave Ford
RV6 flying
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268000#268000
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