Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:05 AM - Re: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned (David McNeill)
2. 05:45 AM - Re: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned (Jesse Saint)
3. 06:16 AM - Re: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned (tgesele@optonline.net)
4. 06:28 AM - Re: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned (Michael Kraus)
5. 12:55 PM - fortunate AZ (David McNeill)
6. 03:14 PM - Re: fortunate AZ (Bob Turner)
7. 06:28 PM - Re: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned (Roxanne and Mike Lefever)
8. 07:19 PM - Re: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned (David McNeill)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned |
We have used the following technique successfully on two aircraft , Glastar
and RV10. We use bent aluminum fingers; a 1/2" wide by 3 " by .040 strip has
a cleco hole on one end and a masking tape wrap on the other. cleco holes
for these "fingers" are drilled at 4-6" intervals around the glass. these
are numbered and are placed when the window is glued. After curing, the
fingers are removed and the edge of the window sanded smooth. Then two one
inch strips of E-glass , cut on a 45 bias, are glued around the windows to
secure the window in the frame and fill the mounting holes. More work but
the neither the window or the frame crack. We learned this technique at
Phoenix Composites who have been doing this for years with all manner of
composite aircraft.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 10:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned
I can only imagine the feeling of having to redo a windscreen due to cracks,
)^%&*^2208&^*66&769q!!!!
Thought i would post a few pict on how I glued in my windscreen. I had heard
about all the craze line issues and I even went as far as to purchase five
tubes of Sikaflex for the side windows. I never used the sikaflex so if
anyone want to purchase the five tubes for a quarter of what it cost me, let
me know.
The key to clamping the windscreen IMO in is distribution of pressure. I
used several laminations of 1/16" ply, aircraft modeling plywood to
distribute the force. The pictures should tell the story. Also, I used
wooden wedges to push down on the plexi where needed. Note the 3/4" ply used
across the top of the canopy, clamped to the canopy, but it is the wedges
which are pushing down on the plexi. This entire process is a two person
process and it needs to be rehearsed. One person should spread the Weld On
on the canopy rim while the other is doing the windscreen edge. Pressure to
the windscreen should be applied at the top and then incrementally going out
to the sides, each side at the same time. Tape should be placed on the
inside of the windcreen and outside with the inside tape removed once the
window is clamped. Get all the hairs of WeldOn off the plexi immediately.
_____
From: aarongleixner@sbcglobal.net
Subject: RV10-List: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned
I just got off the phone with Van's after paying $470 for a new front
window. I had approximately 50 small cracks starting at the glue joint, and
extending about 1/8 inch beyond the glue joint. After reading all the
warnings about not clamping when glueing the windows, I added a clamp in one
location to hold the plexi tight, and all the cracks started under the
clamp. While clamping pressure may not be the only variable for crack
formation, it is definitely a strong contributing factor. So for those
about to complete this step, avoid the clamps, and use plenty of glue to
bridge any small gaps that might result.
Now for the question. Has anyone else had to remove a front window? At
this point, I only need to remove the glue joint. How was it accomplished?
Van's said someone routed out a window, but I was wondering if lots of heat
from a heat gun, and a little prying might separate the glue from the
fiberglass. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Aaron
ectric.com
">www.buildersbooks.com
builthelp.com
tronics.com/contribution
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned |
I had to replace a windshield that was broken when a Columbia crashed
into it. It was already actually broken, so it couldn't be removed in
one piece anyway. I used a rubber mallet fairly gently to break the
pieces loose from the glue (not weld-on) and then used a die grinder
to remove the glue. For a whole window, I don't know what I would
recommend, but probably a router or heat like others have mentioned
would work well.
When installing, we put a piece of cardboard over the window and tie a
rope from one spar center section over to the other to hold the lower
part of the windshield in place and then drill some #40 holes and use
little pieces of flat aluminum and clecos around the rest of the
window. We've never had a crack. Attached is a picture with some of
the clecos in place, but not the rope.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Nov 16, 2009, at 9:23 PM, ricksked@embarqmail.com wrote:
> Aaron,
>
> Depends on how you glued it in. I used epoxy and flox and I'm sure
> heat and patience would work well Not sure about weld on. The
> fairing should be able to be removed with heat and some patience as
> well. IIRC, Jesse Saint may chime in, I think they swapped out a
> forward transparency...Dave Saylor will know for sure...he is the
> composite guru who's polished wings warped out his rear window....if
> it weren't such a pain to match paint I could swap out a front
> transparency in a week ready for paint....without using power tools
> except to clean up the cabin lip. And yes I've torn out a bunch of
> glass parts in my time.
>
> Rick Sked
> N246RS
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> From: Aaron Gleixner <aarongleixner@sbcglobal.net>
> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:34:47 -0800 (PST)
> To: <RV10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: Tips on removal of front window and lessons
> learned
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned |
Aaron,
I had the exact problem and replaced my windscreen. The procedure I used (which
worked very well) was to cut the windscreen just in front of the flange using
the cutoff wheel. From there, I used a heat gun to melt the weld-on and the
remaining plexi peeled off easily. A lite sanding and I was good to go. If you
go with this method, just be careful with the heat gun, you just want to heat
it enough to lossen the plexi, not deform the fiberglass. Took about 2 hrs total
if I remember correctly.
Good luck.
Tom Gesele N629RV
----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Gleixner
Subject: RV10-List: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned
> I just got off the phone with Van's after paying $470 for a new
> front window. I had approximately 50 small cracks starting at
> the glue joint, and extending about 1/8 inch beyond the glue
> joint. After reading all the warnings about not clamping when
> glueing the windows, I added a clamp in one location to hold the
> plexi tight, and all the cracks started under the clamp. While
> clamping pressure may not be the only variable for crack
> formation, it is definitely a strong contributing factor. So
> for those about to complete this step, avoid the clamps, and use
> plenty of glue to bridge any small gaps that might result.
>
> Now for the question. Has anyone else had to remove a front
> window? At this point, I only need to remove the glue joint.
> How was it accomplished? Van's said someone routed out a
> window, but I was wondering if lots of heat from a heat gun, and
> a little prying might separate the glue from the fiberglass.
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Aaron
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned |
I routed out the 2 sides and the top as discussed, then used an angled
die grinder with sanding disks to grind away the lower fiberglass
fairing flush with the windscreen. The windscreen then popped out and
left a nice lip all around for the new one.
For the sikaflex, I used the primer on both surfaces then applied it
with a caulk gun. I held the window in place with cleco's and
aluminum tabs as others have discussed, but I used small weights to
hold the bottom of the windscreen until dry.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 16, 2009, at 10:44 PM, "Les Kearney" <kearney@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Mike
>
> How did you use Sikaflex on the front window? Pix would be great.
> When you routed the old window out, did that effectively leave a
> bottom notch for the window?
>
> Inquiring minds need to know.
>
> Les
> #40643
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Kraus
> Sent: November-16-09 8:02 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tips on removal of front window and lessons
> learned
>
> I routed one out that was installed with weld on, same issue as you
> were explaining. Therefore I am not using weld on on my plane!! I
> set the depth to match the window thickness, it made a big mess but
> left a very nice and flat surface for the reinstall. BTW, we
> switched to Sikaflex and have been very happy with it. YMMV.
> -Mike Kraus
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 16, 2009, at 8:34 PM, Aaron Gleixner <aarongleixner@sbcglobal.net
> > wrote:
>
>> I just got off the phone with Van's after paying $470 for a new
>> front window. I had approximately 50 small cracks starting at the
>> glue joint, and extending about 1/8 inch beyond the glue joint.
>> After reading all the warnings about not clamping when glueing the
>> windows, I added a clamp in one location to hold the plexi tight,
>> and all the cracks started under the clamp. While clamping
>> pressure may not be the only variable for crack formation, it is
>> definitely a strong contributing factor. So for those about to
>> complete this step, avoid the clamps, and use plenty of glue to
>> bridge any small gaps that might result.
>>
>> Now for the question. Has anyone else had to remove a front
>> window? At this point, I only need to remove the glue joint. How
>> was it accomplished? Van's said someone routed out a window, but I
>> was wondering if lots of heat from a heat gun, and a little prying
>> might separate the glue from the fiberglass. Any suggestions would
>> be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Aaron
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>
>
> www.aeroelectric.com
> www.homebuilthelp.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
Message 5
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It is reported on the government website that 30 jobs were saved or created
for $760k in the 15th AZ district. WE are especially blessed since until he
government announcement we only had 8 congressional districts.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/jobs-saved-created-congressional-districts-ex
ist/story?id=9097853
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: fortunate AZ |
yes, this was on the news the other night. Apparently the web site person simply
copied the districts from the fund applications, and apparently quite a few
people didn't know their district so they just made something up.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273347#273347
Message 7
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| Subject: | Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned |
David: did you do something similar like the fingers when doing the back w
indows? I am hoping to try those again on the next warm weekend day after h
aving cracked one by clamping it.
From: dlm46007@cox.net
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned
We have used the following technique successfully on two aircraft =2C Glast
ar and RV10. We use bent aluminum fingers=3B a 1/2" wide by 3 " by .040 str
ip has a cleco hole on one end and a masking tape wrap on the other. cleco
holes for these "fingers" are drilled at 4-6" intervals around the glass. t
hese are numbered and are placed when the window is glued. After curing=2C
the fingers are removed and the edge of the window sanded smooth. Then two
one inch strips of E-glass =2C cut on a 45 bias=2C are glued around the win
dows to secure the window in the frame and fill the mounting holes. More wo
rk but the neither the window or the frame crack. We learned this technique
at Phoenix Composites who have been doing this for years with all manner o
f composite aircraft.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday=2C November 16=2C 2009 10:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned
I can only imagine the feeling of having to redo a windscreen due to cracks
=2C )^%&*^2208&^*66&769q!!!!
Thought i would post a few pict on how I glued in my windscreen. I had hear
d about all the craze line issues and I even went as far as to purchase fiv
e tubes of Sikaflex for the side windows. I never used the sikaflex so if a
nyone want to purchase the five tubes for a quarter of what it cost me=2C l
et me know.
The key to clamping the windscreen IMO in is distribution of pressure. I us
ed several laminations of 1/16" ply=2C aircraft modeling plywood to distrib
ute the force. The pictures should tell the story. Also=2C I used wooden we
dges to push down on the plexi where needed. Note the 3/4" ply used across
the top of the canopy=2C clamped to the canopy=2C but it is the wedges whic
h are pushing down on the plexi. This entire process is a two person proces
s and it needs to be rehearsed. One person should spread the Weld On on the
canopy rim while the other is doing the windscreen edge. Pressure to the w
indscreen should be applied at the top and then incrementally going out to
the sides=2C each side at the same time. Tape should be placed on the insid
e of the windcreen and outside with the inside tape removed once the window
is clamped. Get all the hairs of WeldOn off the plexi immediately.
From: aarongleixner@sbcglobal.net
Subject: RV10-List: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned
I just got off the phone with Van's after paying $470 for a new front windo
w. I had approximately 50 small cracks starting at the glue joint=2C and e
xtending about 1/8 inch beyond the glue joint. After reading all the warni
ngs about not clamping when glueing the windows=2C I added a clamp in one l
ocation to hold the plexi tight=2C and all the cracks started under the cla
mp. While clamping pressure may not be the only variable for crack formati
on=2C it is definitely a strong contributing factor. So for those about to
complete this step=2C avoid the clamps=2C and use plenty of glue to bridge
any small gaps that might result.
Now for the question. Has anyone else had to remove a front window? At th
is point=2C I only need to remove the glue joint. How was it accomplished?
Van's said someone routed out a window=2C but I was wondering if lots of
heat from a heat gun=2C and a little prying might separate the glue from th
e fiberglass. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Aaron
ectric.com
">www.buildersbooks.com
builthelp.com
tronics.com/contribution
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned |
we used the "fingers" on all windows. .An even gentle pressure is exerted
all round. Check with Mike Andresan on Friday. I showed him the technique on
his left rear window and he has used it on others. Or you can call me on
480-626-4048.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roxanne and Mike
Lefever
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:27 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned
David: did you do something similar like the fingers when doing the back
windows? I am hoping to try those again on the next warm weekend day after
having cracked one by clamping it.
_____
From: dlm46007@cox.net
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned
We have used the following technique successfully on two aircraft , Glastar
and RV10. We use bent aluminum fingers; a 1/2" wide by 3 " by .040 strip has
a cleco hole on one end and a masking tape wrap on the other. cleco holes
for these "fingers" are drilled at 4-6" intervals around the glass. these
are numbered and are placed when the window is glued. After curing, the
fingers are removed and the edge of the window sanded smooth. Then two one
inch strips of E-glass , cut on a 45 bias, are glued around the windows to
secure the window in the frame and fill the mounting holes. More work but
the neither the window or the frame crack. We learned this technique at
Phoenix Composites who have been doing this for years with all manner of
composite aircraft.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 10:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned
I can only imagine the feeling of having to redo a windscreen due to cracks,
)^%&*^2208&^*66&769q!!!!
Thought i would post a few pict on how I glued in my windscreen. I had heard
about all the craze line issues and I even went as far as to purchase five
tubes of Sikaflex for the side windows. I never used the sikaflex so if
anyone want to purchase the five tubes for a quarter of what it cost me, let
me know.
The key to clamping the windscreen IMO in is distribution of pressure. I
used several laminations of 1/16" ply, aircraft modeling plywood to
distribute the force. The pictures should tell the story. Also, I used
wooden wedges to push down on the plexi where needed. Note the 3/4" ply used
across the top of the canopy, clamped to the canopy, but it is the wedges
which are pushing down on the plexi. This entire process is a two person
process and it needs to be rehearsed. One person should spread the Weld On
on the canopy rim while the other is doing the windscreen edge. Pressure to
the windscreen should be applied at the top and then incrementally going out
to the sides, each side at the same time. Tape should be placed on the
inside of the windcreen and outside with the inside tape removed once the
window is clamped. Get all the hairs of WeldOn off the plexi immediately.
_____
From: aarongleixner@sbcglobal.net
Subject: RV10-List: Tips on removal of front window and lessons learned
I just got off the phone with Van's after paying $470 for a new front
window. I had approximately 50 small cracks starting at the glue joint, and
extending about 1/8 inch beyond the glue joint. After reading all the
warnings about not clamping when glueing the windows, I added a clamp in one
location to hold the plexi tight, and all the cracks started under the
clamp. While clamping pressure may not be the only variable for crack
formation, it is definitely a strong contributing factor. So for those
about to complete this step, avoid the clamps, and use plenty of glue to
bridge any small gaps that might result.
Now for the question. Has anyone else had to remove a front window? At
this point, I only need to remove the glue joint. How was it accomplished?
Van's said someone routed out a window, but I was wondering if lots of heat
from a heat gun, and a little prying might separate the glue from the
fiberglass. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Aaron
ectric.com
">www.buildersbooks.com
builthelp.com
tronics.com/contribution
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
.com
lectric.com
/">www.buildersbooks.com
ebuilthelp.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ronics.com
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