Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:46 AM - Re: Stick centering (gary)
2. 07:18 AM - Re: Stick centering (ricksked@embarqmail.com)
3. 08:12 AM - Re: Stick centering (Perry, Phil)
4. 08:35 AM - Re: Stick centering (Linn Walters)
5. 09:01 AM - Re: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight in Decem... (RobHickman@aol.com)
6. 09:12 AM - EFIS repairs (David McNeill)
7. 09:23 AM - Re: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight in Decem... (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
8. 09:52 AM - Re: Feedback wanted (John Cumins)
9. 11:03 AM - Re: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight in Decem... (John Cumins)
10. 11:07 AM - Re: EFIS repairs (Jim@CombsFive.Com)
11. 11:18 AM - Re: EFIS repairs (Jim@CombsFive.Com)
12. 11:29 AM - Re: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight in Decem... (Pascal)
13. 11:35 AM - Re: EFIS repairs (Don McDonald)
14. 11:47 AM - Re: EFIS repairs (Bob Turner)
15. 11:59 AM - Re: EFIS repairs (David McNeill)
16. 01:44 PM - Re: EFIS repairs (Jim Berry)
17. 02:24 PM - Re: Re: EFIS repairs (David McNeill)
18. 04:10 PM - Re: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight in Dec (Lew Gallagher)
19. 04:20 PM - Re: Stick centering (Lew Gallagher)
20. 04:45 PM - Re: Re: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight in Dec (ricksked@embarqmail.com)
21. 04:45 PM - Re: Re: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight in Dec (Les Kearney)
22. 04:45 PM - Re: Re: Stick centering (ricksked@embarqmail.com)
23. 04:46 PM - Re: Re: Stick centering (Kelly McMullen)
24. 05:00 PM - Re: Re: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight in Dec (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
25. 05:04 PM - Re: Re: Stick centering (Perry, Phil)
26. 06:00 PM - RV-10 Project for sale (Vernon Smith)
27. 07:53 PM - electric fuel pump current (Bob Turner)
28. 09:06 PM - Re: electric fuel pump current (Don McDonald)
29. 09:11 PM - Stiff control cables (Dave Saylor)
30. 09:49 PM - Re: Stiff control cables (Vernon Smith)
Message 1
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I too would question "what is the experience level" of your pilot? This is
what I would call a neutrally stable aircraft i.e. if you put it into a bank
it will stay there. A 152 is a positively stable aircraft i.e. it will
return to level flight after a while.
Other homebuilt aircraft are even more unstable than the 10. If your pilot
doesn't have experience in this type of flying I would advise some
transition training that specifically gets him to understand what type of
aircraft this is and how it flys.
I second the recommendation for an AP. It will reward you with all kinds of
benefits he as of now hasn't completely though through.
Gary Specketer
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:32 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Stick centering
Lew,
I appreciate your partner wanting to actively fly the plane
however safely flying the plane is also something to think about. I
Cessna 152 class airplane may not need an AP but this serious cross
country machine like this RV-10 does. Someone will fly this plane on
regular cross countries and having tools like automatically holding
altitude and heading is both a comfort and safety issue. Don't want it,
then don't use it. Reducing pilot workload comes in many forms and not
having to hold a plane within is couple hundred feet and on course for 4
hours and then be fresh enough for a difficult landing conditions can be
considered a safety issue. Auto pilots are also great for sightseeing,
sapping a photo, reaching for the jug of water or the urine bottle.
Without an AP you are have a statistically higher chance of taking a
swig out of the urine bottle. How about resale? I don't think anyone
wants to buy an RV-10 w/o and AP installed. I can think of many more
important reasons to add the AP to your build. I can't think of any to
not install one. They don't have to be $15K budget busters. My RV-6A had
a $1,700 AP driven by my Garmin 396 and it was the best thing that ever
happened to that plane. Don't ask me what the worst thing was... :-(
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:02 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Stick centering
Hey Guys,
Since I'm not a pilot, I'm asking this on behalf of my owner/pilot
partner -- be gentle!
He says this is the first plane he has seen that doesn't have a
mechanism for bringing the stick back to center. I.e. hands off, the
plane should level out if trimmed correctly. Keep in mind that he has
not yet gone for his cross training in an RV-10, so this is all
speculation. Maybe in flight, it does center?
I've read here about when "dialed in" the -10 flies itself, but it think
that was in reference to AP discussions. In spite of my strong
encouragement that he should install an AP (after reading here about the
advantages), he insists it's all about actively flying for him, not
riding.
So I guess the direct question is: Without an AP installed, have others
addressed this with springs, or whatever, or is it really not an issue?
Thanks, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting done!
On with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276452#276452
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12/06/09 19:37:00
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Stick centering |
Just to reiterate experience...I had about 130 hours all in a 172....and no real
good stick time for two years before flying my -10 I can honestly say now I
am proficient at flying the airplane...For me that meant almost 25 hours of dual...by
my choice..The AP should almost be part of the MEL. (some aircraft it
is) if only for being a backup to, God forbid, spatial disorientation...
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: "gary" <speckter@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Stick centering
I too would question "what is the experience level" of your pilot? This is
what I would call a neutrally stable aircraft i.e. if you put it into a bank
it will stay there. A 152 is a positively stable aircraft i.e. it will
return to level flight after a while.
Other homebuilt aircraft are even more unstable than the 10. If your pilot
doesn't have experience in this type of flying I would advise some
transition training that specifically gets him to understand what type of
aircraft this is and how it flys.
I second the recommendation for an AP. It will reward you with all kinds of
benefits he as of now hasn't completely though through.
Gary Specketer
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:32 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Stick centering
Lew,
I appreciate your partner wanting to actively fly the plane
however safely flying the plane is also something to think about. I
Cessna 152 class airplane may not need an AP but this serious cross
country machine like this RV-10 does. Someone will fly this plane on
regular cross countries and having tools like automatically holding
altitude and heading is both a comfort and safety issue. Don't want it,
then don't use it. Reducing pilot workload comes in many forms and not
having to hold a plane within is couple hundred feet and on course for 4
hours and then be fresh enough for a difficult landing conditions can be
considered a safety issue. Auto pilots are also great for sightseeing,
sapping a photo, reaching for the jug of water or the urine bottle.
Without an AP you are have a statistically higher chance of taking a
swig out of the urine bottle. How about resale? I don't think anyone
wants to buy an RV-10 w/o and AP installed. I can think of many more
important reasons to add the AP to your build. I can't think of any to
not install one. They don't have to be $15K budget busters. My RV-6A had
a $1,700 AP driven by my Garmin 396 and it was the best thing that ever
happened to that plane. Don't ask me what the worst thing was... :-(
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:02 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Stick centering
Hey Guys,
Since I'm not a pilot, I'm asking this on behalf of my owner/pilot
partner -- be gentle!
He says this is the first plane he has seen that doesn't have a
mechanism for bringing the stick back to center. I.e. hands off, the
plane should level out if trimmed correctly. Keep in mind that he has
not yet gone for his cross training in an RV-10, so this is all
speculation. Maybe in flight, it does center?
I've read here about when "dialed in" the -10 flies itself, but it think
that was in reference to AP discussions. In spite of my strong
encouragement that he should install an AP (after reading here about the
advantages), he insists it's all about actively flying for him, not
riding.
So I guess the direct question is: Without an AP installed, have others
addressed this with springs, or whatever, or is it really not an issue?
Thanks, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting done!
On with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276452#276452
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12/06/09 19:37:00
Message 3
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The only time I've heard of springs being used in these light planes is
to help provide gradient forces with stick movement. Meaning that the
further you move the stick from center, the more pressure (feedback) it
applies against you. So it would be 0 at neutral and get stronger as
you move to the outer limits. The pressure of the springs should be
uniform in all directions.
Now the question is why would anyone do that?
The answer is to keep the pilot from putting too many G's on the
airframe. Some aircraft designs are very light on the controls and
provide very little feedback (or non-uniform feedback) in the terms of
stick forces. As a result it's very easy for a pilot to over control
the airplane and put too many G's on it without realizing what they're
really doing. The springs are provided to insert a simple form of
artificial feedback directly at the stick.
There have been a handful of airplanes out there who've required
springs. I would guess most are retrofit's following accidents of the
same type (I don't know), because I couldn't imagine designing a light
plane that needed the springs intentionally.
We're lucky to have a good airframe and control surface designer for the
RV-10. :)
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: ricksked@embarqmail.com [mailto:ricksked@embarqmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stick centering
Just to reiterate experience...I had about 130 hours all in a 172....and
no real good stick time for two years before flying my -10 I can
honestly say now I am proficient at flying the airplane...For me that
meant almost 25 hours of dual...by my choice..The AP should almost be
part of the MEL. (some aircraft it is) if only for being a backup to,
God forbid, spatial disorientation...
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: "gary" <speckter@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Stick centering
I too would question "what is the experience level" of your pilot? This
is
what I would call a neutrally stable aircraft i.e. if you put it into a
bank
it will stay there. A 152 is a positively stable aircraft i.e. it will
return to level flight after a while.
Other homebuilt aircraft are even more unstable than the 10. If your
pilot
doesn't have experience in this type of flying I would advise some
transition training that specifically gets him to understand what type
of
aircraft this is and how it flys.
I second the recommendation for an AP. It will reward you with all
kinds of
benefits he as of now hasn't completely though through.
Gary Specketer
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:32 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Stick centering
Lew,
I appreciate your partner wanting to actively fly the plane
however safely flying the plane is also something to think about. I
Cessna 152 class airplane may not need an AP but this serious cross
country machine like this RV-10 does. Someone will fly this plane on
regular cross countries and having tools like automatically holding
altitude and heading is both a comfort and safety issue. Don't want it,
then don't use it. Reducing pilot workload comes in many forms and not
having to hold a plane within is couple hundred feet and on course for 4
hours and then be fresh enough for a difficult landing conditions can be
considered a safety issue. Auto pilots are also great for sightseeing,
sapping a photo, reaching for the jug of water or the urine bottle.
Without an AP you are have a statistically higher chance of taking a
swig out of the urine bottle. How about resale? I don't think anyone
wants to buy an RV-10 w/o and AP installed. I can think of many more
important reasons to add the AP to your build. I can't think of any to
not install one. They don't have to be $15K budget busters. My RV-6A had
a $1,700 AP driven by my Garmin 396 and it was the best thing that ever
happened to that plane. Don't ask me what the worst thing was... :-(
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:02 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Stick centering
Hey Guys,
Since I'm not a pilot, I'm asking this on behalf of my owner/pilot
partner -- be gentle!
He says this is the first plane he has seen that doesn't have a
mechanism for bringing the stick back to center. I.e. hands off, the
plane should level out if trimmed correctly. Keep in mind that he has
not yet gone for his cross training in an RV-10, so this is all
speculation. Maybe in flight, it does center?
I've read here about when "dialed in" the -10 flies itself, but it think
that was in reference to AP discussions. In spite of my strong
encouragement that he should install an AP (after reading here about the
advantages), he insists it's all about actively flying for him, not
riding.
So I guess the direct question is: Without an AP installed, have others
addressed this with springs, or whatever, or is it really not an issue?
Thanks, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting done!
On with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276452#276452
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12/06/09 19:37:00
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Stick centering |
Actually, springs have been used as a 'trim' function on a lot of
homebuilts. Varying the tension of the springs adjusts the 'center'
position of the stick, and hence the 'trim'. IMHO, it's crude, but
effective.
Far more elegant would be proper rigging coupled with remotely operated
trim servos to take care of CG shifts in flight. Better would be the
addition of an autopilot if only for temporary control of the airplane
(or for helping you out of a nasty situation such as a controlled 180),
and better yet .... both trim and autopilot. The better the rigging,
and smaller the trim movement, the more efficient and faster your
airplane will go.
Linn
Perry, Phil wrote:
>
> The only time I've heard of springs being used in these light planes is
> to help provide gradient forces with stick movement. Meaning that the
> further you move the stick from center, the more pressure (feedback) it
> applies against you. So it would be 0 at neutral and get stronger as
> you move to the outer limits. The pressure of the springs should be
> uniform in all directions.
>
> Now the question is why would anyone do that?
>
> The answer is to keep the pilot from putting too many G's on the
> airframe. Some aircraft designs are very light on the controls and
> provide very little feedback (or non-uniform feedback) in the terms of
> stick forces. As a result it's very easy for a pilot to over control
> the airplane and put too many G's on it without realizing what they're
> really doing. The springs are provided to insert a simple form of
> artificial feedback directly at the stick.
>
> There have been a handful of airplanes out there who've required
> springs. I would guess most are retrofit's following accidents of the
> same type (I don't know), because I couldn't imagine designing a light
> plane that needed the springs intentionally.
>
> We're lucky to have a good airframe and control surface designer for the
> RV-10. :)
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ricksked@embarqmail.com [mailto:ricksked@embarqmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:13 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Stick centering
>
>
> Just to reiterate experience...I had about 130 hours all in a 172....and
> no real good stick time for two years before flying my -10 I can
> honestly say now I am proficient at flying the airplane...For me that
> meant almost 25 hours of dual...by my choice..The AP should almost be
> part of the MEL. (some aircraft it is) if only for being a backup to,
> God forbid, spatial disorientation...
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "gary" <speckter@comcast.net>
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:43:46
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Stick centering
>
>
> I too would question "what is the experience level" of your pilot? This
> is
> what I would call a neutrally stable aircraft i.e. if you put it into a
> bank
> it will stay there. A 152 is a positively stable aircraft i.e. it will
> return to level flight after a while.
>
> Other homebuilt aircraft are even more unstable than the 10. If your
> pilot
> doesn't have experience in this type of flying I would advise some
> transition training that specifically gets him to understand what type
> of
> aircraft this is and how it flys.
>
> I second the recommendation for an AP. It will reward you with all
> kinds of
> benefits he as of now hasn't completely though through.
>
> Gary Specketer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:32 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Stick centering
>
>
> Lew,
> I appreciate your partner wanting to actively fly the plane
> however safely flying the plane is also something to think about. I
> Cessna 152 class airplane may not need an AP but this serious cross
> country machine like this RV-10 does. Someone will fly this plane on
> regular cross countries and having tools like automatically holding
> altitude and heading is both a comfort and safety issue. Don't want it,
> then don't use it. Reducing pilot workload comes in many forms and not
> having to hold a plane within is couple hundred feet and on course for 4
> hours and then be fresh enough for a difficult landing conditions can be
> considered a safety issue. Auto pilots are also great for sightseeing,
> sapping a photo, reaching for the jug of water or the urine bottle.
> Without an AP you are have a statistically higher chance of taking a
> swig out of the urine bottle. How about resale? I don't think anyone
> wants to buy an RV-10 w/o and AP installed. I can think of many more
> important reasons to add the AP to your build. I can't think of any to
> not install one. They don't have to be $15K budget busters. My RV-6A had
> a $1,700 AP driven by my Garmin 396 and it was the best thing that ever
> happened to that plane. Don't ask me what the worst thing was... :-(
>
> Robin
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:02 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Stick centering
>
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> Since I'm not a pilot, I'm asking this on behalf of my owner/pilot
> partner -- be gentle!
>
> He says this is the first plane he has seen that doesn't have a
> mechanism for bringing the stick back to center. I.e. hands off, the
> plane should level out if trimmed correctly. Keep in mind that he has
> not yet gone for his cross training in an RV-10, so this is all
> speculation. Maybe in flight, it does center?
>
> I've read here about when "dialed in" the -10 flies itself, but it think
> that was in reference to AP discussions. In spite of my strong
> encouragement that he should install an AP (after reading here about the
> advantages), he insists it's all about actively flying for him, not
> riding.
>
> So I guess the direct question is: Without an AP installed, have others
> addressed this with springs, or whatever, or is it really not an issue?
>
> Thanks, - Lew
>
> --------
> non-pilot
> crazy about building
> NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
> Painting done!
> On with wiring and avionics.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276452#276452
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 12/06/09 19:37:00
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight in |
Decem...
EFIS screens with synthetic vision and geo-referenced approach plates help
tremendously in situational awareness.
I just posted pictures from last weekend:
_http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=51435_
(http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=51435)
Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10
In a message dated 12/5/2009 11:08:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
deej@deej.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
On 12/5/2009 9:21 AM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote:
> I've never flown into Lebanon airport but I have polished the
> surrounding mountains and explored some of the narrow valley fields. We
I learned to fly out of the Lebanon, NH airport, and it can be
challenging. As a VFR pilot, there are many directions approaching the
airport that you can't see the airport until you are very close to it.
The airport is nestled between some nice "hills" that run mostly
parallel to runway 18/36.
The IFR approaches bring you out over some "interesting" terrain, and
with a bit of wind, it can get pretty bumpy with all the hills
disrupting the air. If you go missed, you definitely want to make sure
you follow the published procedure.
On the positive side, absolutely some of the most beautiful country to
see when you are flying. The view itself is enough of an incentive to
put up with the hassle of winter flying.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/
Message 6
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Just a reminder to those making the EFIS decision. Consider the repair
options of the EFIS you choose. I have had a couple of unsolicited reboots
of one of my Chelton DU1s in-flight. The reversion to the PFD on the other
display went as planned. I probably have a voltage dip but will trouble
shoot locally. just for reference I checked with Chelton/Cobham regarding
repairs. A simple check of no problem found is $650 flat rate. A simple
minor repair is $1200 flat rate and a major problem is $2400 flat rate.
Sounds like certified repair prices for experimental systems. Fortunately a
lot of this computer equipment fails of infant mortality or lasts a very
long time. Keep in mind the warranties and repair policies when selecting an
EFIS.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight |
in Decem...
Wow! Just Wow!
Hope my GRT screens look anywhere near as nice. Really like the
approach plate view. That looks like it could sort a lot of stuff out
in a hurry!
Bill "absolutely drooling" Watson
RobHickman@aol.com wrote:
> EFIS screens with synthetic vision and geo-referenced approach plates
> help tremendously in situational awareness.
>
> I just posted pictures from last weekend:
>
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=51435
>
>
> Rob Hickman
> N402RH RV-10
>
>
>
> In a message dated 12/5/2009 11:08:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> deej@deej.net writes:
>
>
> On 12/5/2009 9:21 AM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote:
>
> > I've never flown into Lebanon airport but I have polished the
> > surrounding mountains and explored some of the narrow valley
> fields. We
>
>
> I learned to fly out of the Lebanon, NH airport, and it can be
> challenging. As a VFR pilot, there are many directions
> approaching the
> airport that you can't see the airport until you are very close to it.
> The airport is nestled between some nice "hills" that run mostly
> parallel to runway 18/36.
>
> The IFR approaches bring you out over some "interesting"
> terrain, and
> with a bit of wind, it can get pretty bumpy with all the hills
> disrupting the air. If you go missed, you definitely want to make
> sure
> you follow the published procedure.
>
> On the positive side, absolutely some of the most beautiful
> country to
> see when you are flying. The view itself is enough of an incentive to
> put up with the hassle of winter flying.
>
> -Dj
>
> --
> Dj Merrill - N1JOV
> Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ -
> http://deej.net/sportsman/
> Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L -
> ==============================================
> _nbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE to find Gifts tric re b
> k you for p; -Matt Dralle, List
> ======================== the ties Day
> ================================================ -
> MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
> =================================================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 8
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Michael
Never use cable ties in the engine compartment to secure anything to a motor
mount, any fluid line, always use clamps. Cable ties will eventually either
stretch or just come loose and will chafe and worse will get dirt and grime
under them then chafe with dirt under them (sand paper) and will wear holes
in everything.
Clamps will hold a lot better and not wear out like cable ties do.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Wellenzohn
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 10:39 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Feedback wanted
I just wanted some feedback if the cable routing is ok and if using
cable-ties is ok. If not what did others use.
Thanks Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (avionics, wiring)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276352#276352
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00037_111.jpg
Message 9
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| Subject: | IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight in |
Decem...
Rob
That's awesome.
John G. Cumins
40864 about emp cl;ecoed together.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RobHickman@aol.com
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight
in Decem...
EFIS screens with synthetic vision and geo-referenced approach plates help
tremendously in situational awareness.
I just posted pictures from last weekend:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=51435
Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10
In a message dated 12/5/2009 11:08:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
deej@deej.net writes:
On 12/5/2009 9:21 AM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote:
> I've never flown into Lebanon airport but I have polished the
> surrounding mountains and explored some of the narrow valley fields. We
I learned to fly out of the Lebanon, NH airport, and it can be
challenging. As a VFR pilot, there are many directions approaching the
airport that you can't see the airport until you are very close to it.
The airport is nestled between some nice "hills" that run mostly
parallel to runway 18/36.
The IFR approaches bring you out over some "interesting" terrain, and
with a bit of wind, it can get pretty bumpy with all the hills
disrupting the air. If you go missed, you definitely want to make sure
you follow the published procedure.
On the positive side, absolutely some of the most beautiful country to
see when you are flying. The view itself is enough of an incentive to
put up with the hassle of winter flying.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L -
==============================================
_nbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE to find Gifts tric re b k you for
p; -Matt Dralle, List ======================== the ties
Day ================================================ -
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =================================================
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: EFIS repairs |
FYI,
There is supposed to be a diode on the Master relay. It is
in Vans Web store and should be already included on currently shipping
relays. But if you are already flying you will most likely not have
the diode. AFS for one "REQUIRES" the diode. Apparently there is
a pretty ugly voltage spike introduced on the power bus if you don't have
it.
Jim Combs (N312F - Flying 145+ hours)
------------------------------------------------
Just a
reminder to those making the EFIS decision. Consider the repair options
of the EFIS you choose. I have had a couple of unsolicited reboots of one
of my Chelton DU1s in-flight. The reversion to the PFD on the other
display went as planned. I probably have a voltage dip but will trouble
shoot locally. just for reference I checked with Chelton/Cobham regarding
repairs. A simple check of no problem found is $650 flat rate. A simple
minor repair is $1200 flat rate and a major problem is $2400 flat rate.
Sounds like certified repair prices for experimental systems. Fortunately
a lot of this computer equipment fails of infant mortality or lasts a
very long time. Keep in mind the warranties and repair policies when
selecting an EFIS.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: EFIS repairs |
Here is
a link:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1260213107-202-72&browse=electrical&product=diodes
Jim C
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight in |
Decem...
That is really very impressive!! nice job with the SV.
Pascal
From: RobHickman@aol.com
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night
flight in Decem...
EFIS screens with synthetic vision and geo-referenced approach plates
help tremendously in situational awareness.
I just posted pictures from last weekend:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=51435
Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10
In a message dated 12/5/2009 11:08:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
deej@deej.net writes:
On 12/5/2009 9:21 AM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote:
> I've never flown into Lebanon airport but I have polished the
> surrounding mountains and explored some of the narrow valley fields.
We
I learned to fly out of the Lebanon, NH airport, and it can be
challenging. As a VFR pilot, there are many directions approaching
the
airport that you can't see the airport until you are very close to it.
The airport is nestled between some nice "hills" that run mostly
parallel to runway 18/36.
The IFR approaches bring you out over some "interesting" terrain,
and
with a bit of wind, it can get pretty bumpy with all the hills
disrupting the air. If you go missed, you definitely want to make
sure
you follow the published procedure.
On the positive side, absolutely some of the most beautiful
country to
see when you are flying. The view itself is enough of an incentive to
put up with the hassle of winter flying.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ -
http://deej.net/sportsman/
Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L -
=====================
_nbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE to find Gifts tric re b k
you for p; -Matt Dralle, List
========================
the ties Day
=======================
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: EFIS repairs |
Jim, I think I remember installing the diode.... but I want to ck and make
sure.... will not be home for several days, but for me and anyone else with
the need to know.... where should the diode be installed?- Between switc
h and Efis?
Thanks
Don McDonald
--- On Mon, 12/7/09, Jim@CombsFive.Com <Jim@CombsFive.Com> wrote:
From: Jim@CombsFive.Com <Jim@CombsFive.Com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: EFIS repairs
FYI,
There is supposed to be a diode on the Master relay.- It is in Vans Web s
tore and should be already included on currently shipping relays.- But if
you are already flying you will most likely not have the diode. AFS for on
e "REQUIRES" the diode. Apparently there is a pretty ugly voltage spike int
roduced on the power bus if you don't have it.
Jim Combs (N312F - Flying 145+ hours)
------------------------------------------------
Just a reminder to those making the EFIS decision. Consider the repair opti
ons of the EFIS you choose. I have had a couple of unsolicited reboots of o
ne of my Chelton DU1s in-flight. The reversion to the PFD on the other disp
lay went as planned. I probably have a voltage dip but will trouble shoot l
ocally. just for reference I checked with Chelton/Cobham regarding repairs.
A simple check of no problem found is $650 flat rate. A simple minor repai
r is $1200 flat rate and a major problem is $2400 flat rate. Sounds like ce
rtified repair prices for experimental systems. Fortunately a lot of this c
omputer equipment fails of infant mortality or lasts a very long time. Keep
in mind the warranties and repair policies when selecting an EFIS.
AeroElectric http://www.matronics.com/contribution
external link will open in a new window" target="_blank"
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV10-List
open in a new window" target="_blank"
=0A=0A=0A
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: EFIS repairs |
The diode goes on the Master relay, from the coil to the battery terminals.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276610#276610
Message 15
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I have diodes on the master relays; this voltage dip (?) rarely occurs but
in flight after lock on. Chelton suggested that it may be a drop below 10V
which causes the reboot. Since it is unique to a single PFD and causes no
indication on the other MFD or the GRT Sport backup, I suspect something in
the power or ground on the connector for the PFD; will check there first.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim@CombsFive.Com
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: EFIS repairs
FYI,
There is supposed to be a diode on the Master relay. It is in Vans Web
store and should be already included on currently shipping relays. But if
you are already flying you will most likely not have the diode. AFS for one
"REQUIRES" the diode. Apparently there is a pretty ugly voltage spike
introduced on the power bus if you don't have it.
Jim Combs (N312F - Flying 145+ hours)
------------------------------------------------
Just a reminder to those making the EFIS decision. Consider the repair
options of the EFIS you choose. I have had a couple of unsolicited reboots
of one of my Chelton DU1s in-flight. The reversion to the PFD on the other
display went as planned. I probably have a voltage dip but will trouble
shoot locally. just for reference I checked with Chelton/Cobham regarding
repairs. A simple check of no problem found is $650 flat rate. A simple
minor repair is $1200 flat rate and a major problem is $2400 flat rate.
Sounds like certified repair prices for experimental systems. Fortunately a
lot of this computer equipment fails of infant mortality or lasts a very
long time. Keep in mind the warranties and repair policies when selecting an
EFIS.
AeroElectric <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
external link will open in a new window" target="_blank"
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
open in a new window" target="_blank"
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: EFIS repairs |
The diode protects against voltage spikes, not low voltage. If you need hardware repair on a Chelton unit, it might be worth checking with Brent Regan at www.regandesigns.com. He was the original developer for the Chelton unit (then Sierra) and it is my understanding that his son's do repairs. Might be a better price than Chelton gave you.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276620#276620
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: EFIS repairs |
Thanks ; I will keep that in mind; I was aware of the Regan connection but
unaware of his son's involvement. My avionics is turned on by a toggle
circuit breaker; hence no coil and no spike from a expanding/collapsing
magnetic field.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Berry
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: EFIS repairs
The diode protects against voltage spikes, not low voltage. If you need
hardware repair on a Chelton unit, it might be worth checking with Brent
Regan at www.regandesigns.com. He was the original developer for the Chelton
unit (then Sierra) and it is my understanding that his son's do repairs.
Might be a better price than Chelton gave you.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276620#276620
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight in |
Dec
Hey Rob,
I'm not even a pilot and I get a control stick in my pants just looking at your
posts! Made my day.
My owner/pilot that I'm helping build his -10, just told me he will NOT listen
to me about all the recommendations for installing an AP and he is expecting delivery
on the Advanced 4500 and 3500, and Garmin 430S around X-mas ... SO CLOSE,
I can't believe he's not going that last inch! Maybe he would listen to you
...?
I'm still working on him and sent him a link to your post.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting done!
On with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276633#276633
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Stick centering |
Thanks for the replies.
Phil, I think you nailed it closest, cuz when I passed on all the feedback to him,
he responded that the cargo planes he flew in the AF and the Diamond he has
been training in, have the artificial gradient resistance to help to not over
steer. I really think that once he gets his cross training in a -10, he will
be more comfortable.
On the AP issue, I don't fly and even I can see what an asset it is (see my response
to Rob's post!). I'll keep pushing it!
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting done!
On with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276635#276635
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight |
in Dec
Lew,
I think I know your "owner/pilot" He either wrote an article that started "Never
again" or maybe it was under Findings: The pilot in command failed to....."insert
your favorite conclusion here". There seems to some arrogance that you should
not be subject to. You might want to consider your liability in the construction
of the aircraft if your recommendation for certain equipment is met with
unfounded resistance. For the rest of us RV-10 builders, save us the increased
insurance costs and make sure the registration mentions no reference to Vans
or RV-10. Name the make, model and manufacturer after him
Rick Sked
N246RS
Builder/Pilot
Additional services
Dragons Slayed
Damsels rescued
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall@charter.net>
Subject: RV10-List: Re: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight in
Dec
Hey Rob,
I'm not even a pilot and I get a control stick in my pants just looking at your
posts! Made my day.
My owner/pilot that I'm helping build his -10, just told me he will NOT listen
to me about all the recommendations for installing an AP and he is expecting delivery
on the Advanced 4500 and 3500, and Garmin 430S around X-mas ... SO CLOSE,
I can't believe he's not going that last inch! Maybe he would listen to you
...?
I'm still working on him and sent him a link to your post.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting done!
On with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276633#276633
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight |
in Dec
Lew
Tell you friend that AFS sells an AFS branded TruTrak autopilot designed to
integrate into the AFS EFIS. I just got mine in the mail - Christmas came
early!
Cheers
Les
#40643
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: December-07-09 5:08 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight
in Dec
Hey Rob,
I'm not even a pilot and I get a control stick in my pants just looking at
your posts! Made my day.
My owner/pilot that I'm helping build his -10, just told me he will NOT
listen to me about all the recommendations for installing an AP and he is
expecting delivery on the Advanced 4500 and 3500, and Garmin 430S around
X-mas ... SO CLOSE, I can't believe he's not going that last inch! Maybe he
would listen to you ...?
I'm still working on him and sent him a link to your post.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting done!
On with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276633#276633
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Stick centering |
FYI......move the RV-10 stick 3 to 4 inches left or right and hold it you will
be approaching 90 degrees of bank real quick and your brain won't even KNOW there's
a spring there.....you fly this plane with a few fingers...not a fist full.
and unless he flew the C-17...OMG...over steer? Well maybe he flew C-47.s.
WTFDIK!!!
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall@charter.net>
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Stick centering
Thanks for the replies.
Phil, I think you nailed it closest, cuz when I passed on all the feedback to him,
he responded that the cargo planes he flew in the AF and the Diamond he has
been training in, have the artificial gradient resistance to help to not over
steer. I really think that once he gets his cross training in a -10, he will
be more comfortable.
On the AP issue, I don't fly and even I can see what an asset it is (see my response
to Rob's post!). I'll keep pushing it!
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting done!
On with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276635#276635
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Stick centering |
The main reason for the AP is for cross country use, where holding a
relatively sensitive stick would get old in a hurry. If he only plans
breakfast and hamburger runs in local area, then AP is not cost
effective. While I flew a plane without one for long cross countries
for years, you don't realize how fatiguing it is until later. You just
have to figure how to share the $5000 cost that will persuade him.
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Lew Gallagher <lewgall@charter.net> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the replies.
>
> Phil, I think you nailed it closest, cuz when I passed on all the feedback to
him, he responded that the cargo planes he flew in the AF and the Diamond he
has been training in, have the artificial gradient resistance to help to not over
steer. I really think that once he gets his cross training in a -10, he will
be more comfortable.
>
> On the AP issue, I don't fly and even I can see what an asset it is (see my response
to Rob's post!). I'll keep pushing it!
>
> Later, - Lew
>
> --------
> non-pilot
> crazy about building
> NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
> Painting done!
> On with wiring and avionics.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276635#276635
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: IFR continued - A great dark and stormy night flight |
in Dec
FWIW - 8+ years ago I decided to put an IFR panel in my Maule but man-up
on the AP issue and hand-fly only. After all, I was sailplane pilot -
no APs there and plenty of 3, 4, and 5+ hour cross countries.
I regret it every flight at some point. Instead of making me sharper,
it just bores me and makes me lax. And when the fun part comes up;
landing, taking off, manuvering, approaches - often I'm just tired.
It's no fun hand flying when using the relief system. Waking my
co-pilot up to fly while I use the system... there's just no optimal
solution.
I've learned how to fold maps and organize a knee board for hand flying
in IMC. So what.
Good luck fighting the good fight. He doesn't have to use it.
Bill "just talked to Trutrak today making sure I have the trim feature"
Watson
Lew Gallagher wrote:
>
> Hey Rob,
>
> I'm not even a pilot and I get a control stick in my pants just looking at your
posts! Made my day.
>
> My owner/pilot that I'm helping build his -10, just told me he will NOT listen
to me about all the recommendations for installing an AP and he is expecting
delivery on the Advanced 4500 and 3500, and Garmin 430S around X-mas ... SO CLOSE,
I can't believe he's not going that last inch! Maybe he would listen to
you ...?
>
> I'm still working on him and sent him a link to your post.
>
> Later, - Lew
>
> --------
> non-pilot
> crazy about building
> NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
> Painting done!
> On with wiring and avionics.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276633#276633
>
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Stick centering |
Agreed. He'll never know it's missing because those forces are designed
into the airplane.
And I agree. WTFD(R)K??? LOL!!
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: ricksked@embarqmail.com [mailto:ricksked@embarqmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Stick centering
FYI......move the RV-10 stick 3 to 4 inches left or right and hold it
you will be approaching 90 degrees of bank real quick and your brain
won't even KNOW there's a spring there.....you fly this plane with a few
fingers...not a fist full. and unless he flew the C-17...OMG...over
steer? Well maybe he flew C-47.s. WTFDIK!!!
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall@charter.net>
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Stick centering
Thanks for the replies.
Phil, I think you nailed it closest, cuz when I passed on all the
feedback to him, he responded that the cargo planes he flew in the AF
and the Diamond he has been training in, have the artificial gradient
resistance to help to not over steer. I really think that once he gets
his cross training in a -10, he will be more comfortable.
On the AP issue, I don't fly and even I can see what an asset it is (see
my response to Rob's post!). I'll keep pushing it!
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting done!
On with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276635#276635
Message 26
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| Subject: | RV-10 Project for sale |
Well Folks=2C
This is one of the hardest (and maybe one of the shortest=3B) emails I have
ever composed. Basically I have hit a brick wall and the only way around i
t is to sell th RV-10 project and go LSA. I'm thankful Van's is marketing t
he RV-12=2C but alas it's not a 10.
Project details=2C photos and price can be found on my website www.aviation
stop.com. Feel free to contact me off line.
Vern Smith (40324)
do not archive
_________________________________________________________________
Get gifts for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.
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Message 27
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| Subject: | electric fuel pump current |
I've been following Van's electrical kit instructions: they call for a 5 Amp breaker
for the fuel pump (the one sold by Van's). But today I noticed the pump
instructions say it draws 5 amps; they call for a 7 or 10 amp breaker. Has anyone
run this pump on a 5 amp breaker without false trips?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276665#276665
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: electric fuel pump current |
Your judgement is correct.... use at least a 7.5amp breaker.
Don McDonald
--- On Mon, 12/7/09, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
From: Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>
Subject: RV10-List: electric fuel pump current
I've been following Van's electrical kit instructions: they call for a 5 Am
p breaker for the fuel pump (the one sold by Van's). But today I noticed th
e pump instructions say it draws 5 amps; they call for a 7 or 10 amp breake
r. Has anyone run this pump on a 5 amp breaker without false trips?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276665#276665
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 29
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| Subject: | Stiff control cables |
Has anyone had their engine control cables get very, very tight? I have the
quadrant and the cables that came with it. The throttle is OK but the
mixture and prop are to the point that they take two hands to move. Once
the engine warms up (and the cables too, I assume), they feel fine. They've
gotten progressively worse over time.
They were a little on the tight side when they were first installed, but
manageable.
The stiffness is definitely in the cables, not in the fuel servo or the
governor. It's not in the quadrant pivot either.
Also, the quadrant friction has always been more or less useless (but not
exactly needed at this point). Do other people actually use the friction
knob?
I guess I'll replace the cables and maybe order cables an inch or two
longer. Any suggestions?
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
N921AC 540 hours
Message 30
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| Subject: | Stiff control cables |
I've seen this with other control cables. Many times it is the lubricant ge
tting old and hard. Check with your local motorcycle shop and tell them you
want to an adapter for lubricating brake and throttle cables. It's a small
device that clamps over one end of the cable while it is still in place so
you can shot spray lubricate down the cable. When you use it be prepared f
or lubricate coming out the other end as it can be a mess if you are not re
ady for it.
Vern Smith (#324)
From: dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com
Subject: RV10-List: Stiff control cables
Has anyone had their engine control cables get very=2C very tight? I have
the quadrant and the cables that came with it. The throttle is OK but the
mixture and prop are to the point that they take two hands to move. Once t
he engine warms up (and the cables too=2C I assume)=2C they feel fine. The
y've gotten progressively worse over time.
They were a little on the tight side when they were first installed=2C but
manageable.
The stiffness is definitely in the cables=2C not in the fuel servo or the g
overnor. It's not in the quadrant pivot either.
Also=2C the quadrant friction has always been more or less useless (but
not exactly needed at this point). Do other people actually use the
friction knob?
I guess I'll replace the cables and maybe order cables an inch or two longe
r. Any suggestions?
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville=2C CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
N921AC 540 hours
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