Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:51 AM - Dear Santa (Jay Brinkmeyer)
2. 10:45 AM - Re: G3i Ignition (John Cumins)
3. 02:24 PM - Re: G3i Ignition (Seano)
4. 02:55 PM - Re: G3i Ignition (Lew Gallagher)
5. 03:36 PM - Re: G3i Ignition (John Cumins)
6. 03:36 PM - Re: G3i Ignition (John Cumins)
7. 03:54 PM - Front Baffle screw access (jchang10)
8. 03:57 PM - Re: G3i Ignition (Strasnuts)
9. 04:35 PM - Re: G3i Ignition (Kelly McMullen)
10. 05:16 PM - Re: G3i Ignition (John Cumins)
11. 05:43 PM - Re: Front Baffle screw access (DLM)
12. 06:23 PM - Re: Front Baffle screw access (Jesse Saint)
13. 08:14 PM - Re: G3i Ignition (Kelly McMullen)
14. 08:29 PM - Re: G3i Ignition (John Cumins)
15. 08:55 PM - Re: G3i Ignition (Kelly McMullen)
16. 09:16 PM - Re: G3i Ignition (Dave Leikam)
17. 09:16 PM - Re: G3i Ignition (John Cumins)
18. 09:44 PM - Re: G3i Ignition (Kelly McMullen)
Message 1
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Dear Santa,
Here's what I want for Christmas... It's a secret new unmanned aerial vehicle called
the RQ-170 Sentinel. Photo here:
http://secretdefense.blogs.liberation.fr/.a/6a00e008d663eb8834012876199796970c-500wi
I don't think it will fit under the tree, so please leave it in the garage next
to my unfinished RV-10. If
you can't get one, then I guess my next choice would be the usual "GI Joe with
the Kung Fu grip".
Sincerely,
Jay
Message 2
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Kelly
Yes the electronic controller will change the timing totally. When the
electronic module is powered up it takes over for the mages but if it dies
the mages will kick in. It is totally automated when turned on.
John G. Cumins
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
While the concept looks good in some ways, what I don't understand is
what you actually gain over a well maintained magneto. The timing
doesn't change, still fixed. So you get a multiple spark..maybe that
helps if you have an oil burner, but seems like a lot of money to gain
very little. Maybe I am missing something, maybe I misread.
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 6:42 PM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
> Jesse
>
>
> I am going to go with this ignition system it totally make since to me
being
> a old a&p having mags as a backup if the electronics goes out is the only
> way to go.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: G3i Ignition |
what are mages?
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Cumins" <jcumins@jcis.net>
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:35 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>
> Kelly
>
> Yes the electronic controller will change the timing totally. When the
> electronic module is powered up it takes over for the mages but if it dies
> the mages will kick in. It is totally automated when turned on.
>
> John G. Cumins
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 6:24 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>
>
> While the concept looks good in some ways, what I don't understand is
> what you actually gain over a well maintained magneto. The timing
> doesn't change, still fixed. So you get a multiple spark..maybe that
> helps if you have an oil burner, but seems like a lot of money to gain
> very little. Maybe I am missing something, maybe I misread.
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 6:42 PM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>> Jesse
>>
>>
>>
>> I am going to go with this ignition system it totally make since to me
> being
>> a old a&p having mags as a backup if the electronics goes out is the only
>> way to go.
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: G3i Ignition |
mags ... magneto's ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seano" <sean@braunandco.com>
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>
> what are mages?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Cumins" <jcumins@jcis.net>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:35 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>
>
>>
>> Kelly
>>
>> Yes the electronic controller will change the timing totally. When the
>> electronic module is powered up it takes over for the mages but if it
>> dies
>> the mages will kick in. It is totally automated when turned on.
>>
>> John G. Cumins
Mags
Message 5
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John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
mags ... magneto's ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seano" <sean@braunandco.com>
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>
> what are mages?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Cumins" <jcumins@jcis.net>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:35 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>
>
>>
>> Kelly
>>
>> Yes the electronic controller will change the timing totally. When the
>> electronic module is powered up it takes over for the mages but if it
>> dies
>> the mages will kick in. It is totally automated when turned on.
>>
>> John G. Cumins
Mags
Message 6
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Boy don't have fat fingers on this form hehe. The vultures will eat ya a
live.
John
40864 EMP about to start priming
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lew Gallagher
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
mags ... magneto's ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seano" <sean@braunandco.com>
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>
> what are mages?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Cumins" <jcumins@jcis.net>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:35 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>
>
>>
>> Kelly
>>
>> Yes the electronic controller will change the timing totally. When the
>> electronic module is powered up it takes over for the mages but if it
>> dies
>> the mages will kick in. It is totally automated when turned on.
>>
>> John G. Cumins
Mags
Message 7
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| Subject: | Front Baffle screw access |
This is my 3rd attempt. sorry for any repeat posts.
How did you guys get access to the screws that hold the front baffle, right underneath
the prop governor? I am still trying to figure out how to drill it, let
alone get a screw driver to it.
Hopefully, the image was attached okay below!
Also, are there any recommendations for exactly how to align the CB-1001A baffle
in relation to the cowl? The plans don't give much info here. The plans also
don't seem to indicate any baffle material for this area. I am wondering if I
shoot for a tight fit or leave a gap for the cowl to come on and off?
Thanks!
Jae
40533
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277246#277246
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/test_711.jpg
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: G3i Ignition |
My spelling always gets made fun of. I'm passing it along...It's a vicious cycle.
I was really careful writing this one.
Does this system use MSD?
I have used MSD on high performance boats and have grown not to trust them. They
were eating away at the cap and rotors and had intermittent problems which were
hard to troubleshoot. Plus I got the bejesus shocked out of me. It felt like,
i assume, a taser.
bejesus is a word.
1. Bejesus
A word commonly used to express great surprise or fear.
You scared the BEJESUS out of me!!!
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277247#277247
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: G3i Ignition |
John,
Actually, having read through the web site again, the system does NOT
change magneto timing. It uses one of the mag points to trigger, and
provides a multiple spark for 20 degrees after the trigger. In other
words, if your engine is timed to 25 degrees, it will fire at 25
degrees all the time, except during starting. While this may give you
smoother running and a tiny bit better combustion, it does NOTHING for
advancing the timing event when at less than full power, such as in
cruise. So it will do almost nothing for fuel efficiency, nor will it
provide any additional power.
Systems like the Lightspeed Plasma advance the timing event 10-15
degrees when the engine is producing something less than full power to
gain efficiency when less detonation margin is needed.
They do offer a manual advance for the MSD, but this would be
hazardous to your engine where you have no immediate feedback if
approaching ping or knock.
Kelly
40866
QB Wings
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:35 AM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>
> Kelly
>
> Yes the electronic controller will change the timing totally. When the
> electronic module is powered up it takes over for the mages but if it dies
> the mages will kick in. It is totally automated when turned on.
>
> John G. Cumins
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 6:24 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>
>
> While the concept looks good in some ways, what I don't understand is
> what you actually gain over a well maintained magneto. The timing
> doesn't change, still fixed. So you get a multiple spark..maybe that
> helps if you have an oil burner, but seems like a lot of money to gain
> very little. Maybe I am missing something, maybe I misread.
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 6:42 PM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>> Jesse
>>
>>
>>
>> I am going to go with this ignition system it totally make since to me
> being
>> a old a&p having mags as a backup if the electronics goes out is the only
>> way to go.
>
>
Message 10
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Kelly
The points are yes set to 25 degrees btdc and yes it does use the points to
trigger timing to the electronic box, but the box controls the actual firing
of the coil and also does it in numerous spark cycles, I was told between 2
- 3 spark cycles depending on rpm. So the Electronic control does control
the actual timing of the spark to the coils rotor, spark then goes to
distributor block then to the spark plug lead then to the plug itself.
The only current that flows thru the points when the Electronic control is
on is the point trigger of the engine at 25 degrees btdc that's all and so
the point will not arc or wear out.
I have heard great things and I like how this works a lot. I think it is a
much safer system then some of the other systems out there.
JUST my 2 cents worth.
John
40864 Emp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
John,
Actually, having read through the web site again, the system does NOT
change magneto timing. It uses one of the mag points to trigger, and
provides a multiple spark for 20 degrees after the trigger. In other
words, if your engine is timed to 25 degrees, it will fire at 25
degrees all the time, except during starting. While this may give you
smoother running and a tiny bit better combustion, it does NOTHING for
advancing the timing event when at less than full power, such as in
cruise. So it will do almost nothing for fuel efficiency, nor will it
provide any additional power.
Systems like the Lightspeed Plasma advance the timing event 10-15
degrees when the engine is producing something less than full power to
gain efficiency when less detonation margin is needed.
They do offer a manual advance for the MSD, but this would be
hazardous to your engine where you have no immediate feedback if
approaching ping or knock.
Kelly
40866
QB Wings
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:35 AM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>
> Kelly
>
> Yes the electronic controller will change the timing totally. When the
> electronic module is powered up it takes over for the mages but if it dies
> the mages will kick in. It is totally automated when turned on.
>
> John G. Cumins
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 6:24 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>
>
> While the concept looks good in some ways, what I don't understand is
> what you actually gain over a well maintained magneto. The timing
> doesn't change, still fixed. So you get a multiple spark..maybe that
> helps if you have an oil burner, but seems like a lot of money to gain
> very little. Maybe I am missing something, maybe I misread.
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 6:42 PM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>> Jesse
>>
>>
>>
>> I am going to go with this ignition system it totally make since to me
> being
>> a old a&p having mags as a backup if the electronics goes out is the only
>> way to go.
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Front Baffle screw access |
A 90 angle drill and short threaded drill bits. Why hot put SS cap screws in
there with an Allen wrench.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jchang10
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:52 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Front Baffle screw access
--> <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
This is my 3rd attempt. sorry for any repeat posts.
How did you guys get access to the screws that hold the front baffle, right
underneath the prop governor? I am still trying to figure out how to drill
it, let alone get a screw driver to it.
Hopefully, the image was attached okay below!
Also, are there any recommendations for exactly how to align the CB-1001A
baffle in relation to the cowl? The plans don't give much info here. The
plans also don't seem to indicate any baffle material for this area. I am
wondering if I shoot for a tight fit or leave a gap for the cowl to come on
and off?
Thanks!
Jae
40533
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277246#277246
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/test_711.jpg
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Front Baffle screw access |
I second the angle drill. Also, I use a #3 bolt & a universal socket.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation
jesse@saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 11, 2009, at 8:40 PM, "DLM" <dlm46007@cox.net> wrote:
>
> A 90 angle drill and short threaded drill bits. Why hot put SS cap
> screws in
> there with an Allen wrench.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jchang10
> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:52 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Front Baffle screw access
>
> --> <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
>
> This is my 3rd attempt. sorry for any repeat posts.
>
> How did you guys get access to the screws that hold the front
> baffle, right
> underneath the prop governor? I am still trying to figure out how to
> drill
> it, let alone get a screw driver to it.
>
> Hopefully, the image was attached okay below!
>
> Also, are there any recommendations for exactly how to align the
> CB-1001A
> baffle in relation to the cowl? The plans don't give much info here.
> The
> plans also don't seem to indicate any baffle material for this area.
> I am
> wondering if I shoot for a tight fit or leave a gap for the cowl to
> come on
> and off?
>
> Thanks!
> Jae
> 40533
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277246#277246
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/test_711.jpg
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: G3i Ignition |
My point was that the system does not advance timing, so you still
have fixed timing, although there are multiple spark events from 25
degrees to 5 degrees BTDC. The only way to gain power or economy is to
advance the timing once power has decreased from full takeoff power.
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 6:14 PM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>
> Kelly
>
> The points are yes set to 25 degrees btdc and yes it does use the points to
> trigger timing to the electronic box, but the box controls the actual firing
> of the coil and also does it in numerous spark cycles, I was told between 2
> - 3 spark cycles depending on rpm. So the Electronic control does control
> the actual timing of the spark to the coils rotor, spark then goes to
> distributor block then to the spark plug lead then to the plug itself.
>
> The only current that flows thru the points when the Electronic control is
> on is the point trigger of the engine at 25 degrees btdc that's all and so
> the point will not arc or wear out.
>
> I have heard great things and I like how this works a lot. I think it is a
> much safer system then some of the other systems out there.
>
> JUST my 2 cents worth.
>
>
> John
> 40864 Emp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:34 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>
>
> John,
> Actually, having read through the web site again, the system does NOT
> change magneto timing. It uses one of the mag points to trigger, and
> provides a multiple spark for 20 degrees after the trigger. In other
> words, if your engine is timed to 25 degrees, it will fire at 25
> degrees all the time, except during starting. While this may give you
> smoother running and a tiny bit better combustion, it does NOTHING for
> advancing the timing event when at less than full power, such as in
> cruise. So it will do almost nothing for fuel efficiency, nor will it
> provide any additional power.
> Systems like the Lightspeed Plasma advance the timing event 10-15
> degrees when the engine is producing something less than full power to
> gain efficiency when less detonation margin is needed.
> They do offer a manual advance for the MSD, but this would be
> hazardous to your engine where you have no immediate feedback if
> approaching ping or knock.
> Kelly
> 40866
> QB Wings
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:35 AM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>>
>> Kelly
>>
>> Yes the electronic controller will change the timing totally. When the
>> electronic module is powered up it takes over for the mages but if it dies
>> the mages will kick in. It is totally automated when turned on.
>>
>> John G. Cumins
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 6:24 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>>
>>
>> While the concept looks good in some ways, what I don't understand is
>> what you actually gain over a well maintained magneto. The timing
>> doesn't change, still fixed. So you get a multiple spark..maybe that
>> helps if you have an oil burner, but seems like a lot of money to gain
>> very little. Maybe I am missing something, maybe I misread.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 6:42 PM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>>> Jesse
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am going to go with this ignition system it totally make since to me
>> being
>>> a old a&p having mags as a backup if the electronics goes out is the only
>>> way to go.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 14
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|
Kelly that is not correct. When the electronic unit is powered it will
control the timing of the spark not the mags. The mages only control the
timing of the spark when the electronic unit is powered off or failed. I
would recommend that you call the number on there web site he might be able
to explain it better to you than I can.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
My point was that the system does not advance timing, so you still
have fixed timing, although there are multiple spark events from 25
degrees to 5 degrees BTDC. The only way to gain power or economy is to
advance the timing once power has decreased from full takeoff power.
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 6:14 PM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>
> Kelly
>
> The points are yes set to 25 degrees btdc and yes it does use the points
to
> trigger timing to the electronic box, but the box controls the actual
firing
> of the coil and also does it in numerous spark cycles, I was told between
2
> - 3 spark cycles depending on rpm. So the Electronic control does control
> the actual timing of the spark to the coils rotor, spark then goes to
> distributor block then to the spark plug lead then to the plug itself.
>
> The only current that flows thru the points when the Electronic control is
> on is the point trigger of the engine at 25 degrees btdc that's all and so
> the point will not arc or wear out.
>
> I have heard great things and I like how this works a lot. I think it is
a
> much safer system then some of the other systems out there.
>
> JUST my 2 cents worth.
>
>
> John
> 40864 Emp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:34 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>
>
> John,
> Actually, having read through the web site again, the system does NOT
> change magneto timing. It uses one of the mag points to trigger, and
> provides a multiple spark for 20 degrees after the trigger. In other
> words, if your engine is timed to 25 degrees, it will fire at 25
> degrees all the time, except during starting. While this may give you
> smoother running and a tiny bit better combustion, it does NOTHING for
> advancing the timing event when at less than full power, such as in
> cruise. So it will do almost nothing for fuel efficiency, nor will it
> provide any additional power.
> Systems like the Lightspeed Plasma advance the timing event 10-15
> degrees when the engine is producing something less than full power to
> gain efficiency when less detonation margin is needed.
> They do offer a manual advance for the MSD, but this would be
> hazardous to your engine where you have no immediate feedback if
> approaching ping or knock.
> Kelly
> 40866
> QB Wings
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:35 AM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>>
>> Kelly
>>
>> Yes the electronic controller will change the timing totally. When the
>> electronic module is powered up it takes over for the mages but if it
dies
>> the mages will kick in. It is totally automated when turned on.
>>
>> John G. Cumins
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 6:24 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>>
>>
>> While the concept looks good in some ways, what I don't understand is
>> what you actually gain over a well maintained magneto. The timing
>> doesn't change, still fixed. So you get a multiple spark..maybe that
>> helps if you have an oil burner, but seems like a lot of money to gain
>> very little. Maybe I am missing something, maybe I misread.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 6:42 PM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>>> Jesse
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am going to go with this ignition system it totally make since to me
>> being
>>> a old a&p having mags as a backup if the electronics goes out is the
only
>>> way to go.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: G3i Ignition |
Re-read their own description. The unit still uses one of the two mags
to provide the timing of the initial spark event, and all other sparks
are AFTER the initial spark. I read through the entire install manual
and all descriptions. There is NO indication that the MSD unit advances
the spark at all. The opening of the points provides the timing. There
is minimal current as long as the MSD is functional, but it still is the
points providing the timing.k The only difference is you get a multiple
spark, kind of like the difference between a single event strobe and the
Whelen Comet flash. The spark might be somewhat higher voltage, and the
system assures that both left and right plugs are fired simultaneously
even if the mag timing is different by a degree or two from left to
right, because the system only uses one mag to trigger.
John Cumins wrote:
>
> Kelly that is not correct. When the electronic unit is powered it will
> control the timing of the spark not the mags. The mages only control the
> timing of the spark when the electronic unit is powered off or failed. I
> would recommend that you call the number on there web site he might be able
> to explain it better to you than I can.
>
>
>
> John G. Cumins
> President
>
> JC'S Interactive Systems
> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
> Fairfield Ca 94533
> 707-425-7100
> 707-425-7576 Fax
>
> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:13 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>
>
> My point was that the system does not advance timing, so you still
> have fixed timing, although there are multiple spark events from 25
> degrees to 5 degrees BTDC. The only way to gain power or economy is to
> advance the timing once power has decreased from full takeoff power.
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 6:14 PM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>>
>> Kelly
>>
>> The points are yes set to 25 degrees btdc and yes it does use the points
> to
>> trigger timing to the electronic box, but the box controls the actual
> firing
>> of the coil and also does it in numerous spark cycles, I was told between
> 2
>> - 3 spark cycles depending on rpm. So the Electronic control does control
>> the actual timing of the spark to the coils rotor, spark then goes to
>> distributor block then to the spark plug lead then to the plug itself.
>>
>> The only current that flows thru the points when the Electronic control is
>> on is the point trigger of the engine at 25 degrees btdc that's all and so
>> the point will not arc or wear out.
>>
>> I have heard great things and I like how this works a lot. I think it is
> a
>> much safer system then some of the other systems out there.
>>
>> JUST my 2 cents worth.
>>
>>
>> John
>> 40864 Emp
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:34 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>>
>>
>> John,
>> Actually, having read through the web site again, the system does NOT
>> change magneto timing. It uses one of the mag points to trigger, and
>> provides a multiple spark for 20 degrees after the trigger. In other
>> words, if your engine is timed to 25 degrees, it will fire at 25
>> degrees all the time, except during starting. While this may give you
>> smoother running and a tiny bit better combustion, it does NOTHING for
>> advancing the timing event when at less than full power, such as in
>> cruise. So it will do almost nothing for fuel efficiency, nor will it
>> provide any additional power.
>> Systems like the Lightspeed Plasma advance the timing event 10-15
>> degrees when the engine is producing something less than full power to
>> gain efficiency when less detonation margin is needed.
>> They do offer a manual advance for the MSD, but this would be
>> hazardous to your engine where you have no immediate feedback if
>> approaching ping or knock.
>> Kelly
>> 40866
>> QB Wings
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:35 AM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Kelly
>>>
>>> Yes the electronic controller will change the timing totally. When the
>>> electronic module is powered up it takes over for the mages but if it
> dies
>>> the mages will kick in. It is totally automated when turned on.
>>>
>>> John G. Cumins
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 6:24 PM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>>>
>>>
>>> While the concept looks good in some ways, what I don't understand is
>>> what you actually gain over a well maintained magneto. The timing
>>> doesn't change, still fixed. So you get a multiple spark..maybe that
>>> helps if you have an oil burner, but seems like a lot of money to gain
>>> very little. Maybe I am missing something, maybe I misread.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 6:42 PM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>>>> Jesse
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am going to go with this ignition system it totally make since to me
>>> being
>>>> a old a&p having mags as a backup if the electronics goes out is the
> only
>>>> way to go.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: G3i Ignition |
The way Thomas described it to me at OSH this year, as the fuel air mixture
swirls in the cylinder, the 20 degrees of spark produced by the MSD (which
always fires at 25 degrees BTDC using magneto timing, the control box does
not adjust timing) lights the mixture at different points as it swirls by.
Light a pile of hay with a flare in one spot, or light the pile in 10 spots
around the base. Which way will it fully burn faster? Think about why your
airplane engine runs better on two plugs than on one during your mag check.
This achieves similar results to advancing timing, but simpler. I am no
expert here, but it makes sense to me. Also, you can read more on the
science of advanced ignition timing in aircraft and how it relates to the
G3i concept here: http://cafefoundation.org/v2/research_reports.php
Read "Ignition dynamics I,II & III" and then this system makes even better
sense.
I looked hard at several ignition systems including Lightspeed, Electroair
and LASAR among others. I also spoke with Larry Vetterman and a friend of
Stein's who built and raced cars with MSD and installed G3i in his RV7.
They both are happy with the reliability, increased engine performance and
efficiency the G3i system provides. The system is also less than 1/2 the
price of a dual lightspeed or LASAR system, and provides full redundancy
using the mags should the system lose power. No second battery needed. I
purchased the series-2 G3i system. I hope to have it running next summer.
I recommend calling Thomas at G3i. He is a great guy to deal with and will
answer all your questions. Again I am no expert, but after my due
diligence, this system makes the most sense to me.
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA
Muskego, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>
> John,
> Actually, having read through the web site again, the system does NOT
> change magneto timing. It uses one of the mag points to trigger, and
> provides a multiple spark for 20 degrees after the trigger. In other
> words, if your engine is timed to 25 degrees, it will fire at 25
> degrees all the time, except during starting. While this may give you
> smoother running and a tiny bit better combustion, it does NOTHING for
> advancing the timing event when at less than full power, such as in
> cruise. So it will do almost nothing for fuel efficiency, nor will it
> provide any additional power.
> Systems like the Lightspeed Plasma advance the timing event 10-15
> degrees when the engine is producing something less than full power to
> gain efficiency when less detonation margin is needed.
> They do offer a manual advance for the MSD, but this would be
> hazardous to your engine where you have no immediate feedback if
> approaching ping or knock.
> Kelly
> 40866
> QB Wings
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:35 AM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>>
>> Kelly
>>
>> Yes the electronic controller will change the timing totally. When the
>> electronic module is powered up it takes over for the mages but if it
>> dies
>> the mages will kick in. It is totally automated when turned on.
>>
>> John G. Cumins
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 6:24 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>>
>>
>> While the concept looks good in some ways, what I don't understand is
>> what you actually gain over a well maintained magneto. The timing
>> doesn't change, still fixed. So you get a multiple spark..maybe that
>> helps if you have an oil burner, but seems like a lot of money to gain
>> very little. Maybe I am missing something, maybe I misread.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 6:42 PM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>>> Jesse
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am going to go with this ignition system it totally make since to me
>> being
>>> a old a&p having mags as a backup if the electronics goes out is the
>>> only
>>> way to go.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 17
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|
Kelly
Give the guy a call I talked to him at length and he will explain it. He
says that the total advance runs between 31- 32 degrees at full power. Just
give him a call you will be amazed.
Have a great weekend and Christmas.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
Re-read their own description. The unit still uses one of the two mags
to provide the timing of the initial spark event, and all other sparks
are AFTER the initial spark. I read through the entire install manual
and all descriptions. There is NO indication that the MSD unit advances
the spark at all. The opening of the points provides the timing. There
is minimal current as long as the MSD is functional, but it still is the
points providing the timing.k The only difference is you get a multiple
spark, kind of like the difference between a single event strobe and the
Whelen Comet flash. The spark might be somewhat higher voltage, and the
system assures that both left and right plugs are fired simultaneously
even if the mag timing is different by a degree or two from left to
right, because the system only uses one mag to trigger.
John Cumins wrote:
>
> Kelly that is not correct. When the electronic unit is powered it will
> control the timing of the spark not the mags. The mages only control the
> timing of the spark when the electronic unit is powered off or failed. I
> would recommend that you call the number on there web site he might be
able
> to explain it better to you than I can.
>
>
> John G. Cumins
> President
>
> JC'S Interactive Systems
> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
> Fairfield Ca 94533
> 707-425-7100
> 707-425-7576 Fax
>
> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:13 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>
>
> My point was that the system does not advance timing, so you still
> have fixed timing, although there are multiple spark events from 25
> degrees to 5 degrees BTDC. The only way to gain power or economy is to
> advance the timing once power has decreased from full takeoff power.
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 6:14 PM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>>
>> Kelly
>>
>> The points are yes set to 25 degrees btdc and yes it does use the points
> to
>> trigger timing to the electronic box, but the box controls the actual
> firing
>> of the coil and also does it in numerous spark cycles, I was told between
> 2
>> - 3 spark cycles depending on rpm. So the Electronic control does
control
>> the actual timing of the spark to the coils rotor, spark then goes to
>> distributor block then to the spark plug lead then to the plug itself.
>>
>> The only current that flows thru the points when the Electronic control
is
>> on is the point trigger of the engine at 25 degrees btdc that's all and
so
>> the point will not arc or wear out.
>>
>> I have heard great things and I like how this works a lot. I think it is
> a
>> much safer system then some of the other systems out there.
>>
>> JUST my 2 cents worth.
>>
>>
>> John
>> 40864 Emp
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:34 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>>
>>
>> John,
>> Actually, having read through the web site again, the system does NOT
>> change magneto timing. It uses one of the mag points to trigger, and
>> provides a multiple spark for 20 degrees after the trigger. In other
>> words, if your engine is timed to 25 degrees, it will fire at 25
>> degrees all the time, except during starting. While this may give you
>> smoother running and a tiny bit better combustion, it does NOTHING for
>> advancing the timing event when at less than full power, such as in
>> cruise. So it will do almost nothing for fuel efficiency, nor will it
>> provide any additional power.
>> Systems like the Lightspeed Plasma advance the timing event 10-15
>> degrees when the engine is producing something less than full power to
>> gain efficiency when less detonation margin is needed.
>> They do offer a manual advance for the MSD, but this would be
>> hazardous to your engine where you have no immediate feedback if
>> approaching ping or knock.
>> Kelly
>> 40866
>> QB Wings
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:35 AM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Kelly
>>>
>>> Yes the electronic controller will change the timing totally. When the
>>> electronic module is powered up it takes over for the mages but if it
> dies
>>> the mages will kick in. It is totally automated when turned on.
>>>
>>> John G. Cumins
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 6:24 PM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>>>
>>>
>>> While the concept looks good in some ways, what I don't understand is
>>> what you actually gain over a well maintained magneto. The timing
>>> doesn't change, still fixed. So you get a multiple spark..maybe that
>>> helps if you have an oil burner, but seems like a lot of money to gain
>>> very little. Maybe I am missing something, maybe I misread.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 6:42 PM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>>>> Jesse
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am going to go with this ignition system it totally make since to me
>>> being
>>>> a old a&p having mags as a backup if the electronics goes out is the
> only
>>>> way to go.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: G3i Ignition |
I don't need to call someone to find out something that is
electrically and physically impossible. If the first spark occurs at
25 degrees, no additional sparks are going to advance timing.
Multiple sparks do nothing for you unless the first spark doesn't
ignite the mixture. You still have two plugs. You would need more
plugs to ignite more of the mixture simultaneously. The CAFE reports
and Ford testing also show this. Better atomization and better mixture
distribution do far more for you than multiple sparks at lean
mixtures. I had an MSD unit on a car in the 70s, until it failed stone
cold dead. Not real interested in experiencing that in an aircraft. In
fact the CAFE reports demonstrated that Bendix 1200 mags were as good
or better than dual electronic ignition.
But experimental lets us all make our own choices. Be careful to
separate marketing hype from real data and facts.
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 10:16 PM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>
> Kelly
>
> Give the guy a call I talked to him at length and he will explain it. He
> says that the total advance runs between 31- 32 degrees at full power. Just
> give him a call you will be amazed.
>
> Have a great weekend and Christmas.
>
> John G. Cumins
> President
>
> JC'S Interactive Systems
> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
> Fairfield Ca 94533
> 707-425-7100
> 707-425-7576 Fax
>
> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:55 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>
>
> Re-read their own description. The unit still uses one of the two mags
> to provide the timing of the initial spark event, and all other sparks
> are AFTER the initial spark. I read through the entire install manual
> and all descriptions. There is NO indication that the MSD unit advances
> the spark at all. The opening of the points provides the timing. There
> is minimal current as long as the MSD is functional, but it still is the
> points providing the timing.k The only difference is you get a multiple
> spark, kind of like the difference between a single event strobe and the
> Whelen Comet flash. The spark might be somewhat higher voltage, and the
> system assures that both left and right plugs are fired simultaneously
> even if the mag timing is different by a degree or two from left to
> right, because the system only uses one mag to trigger.
>
> John Cumins wrote:
>>
>> Kelly that is not correct. When the electronic unit is powered it will
>> control the timing of the spark not the mags. The mages only control the
>> timing of the spark when the electronic unit is powered off or failed. I
>> would recommend that you call the number on there web site he might be
> able
>> to explain it better to you than I can.
>>
>>
>>
>> John G. Cumins
>> President
>>
>> JC'S Interactive Systems
>> 2499 B1 Martin Rd
>> Fairfield Ca 94533
>> 707-425-7100
>> 707-425-7576 Fax
>>
>> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 8:13 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>>
>>
>> My point was that the system does not advance timing, so you still
>> have fixed timing, although there are multiple spark events from 25
>> degrees to 5 degrees BTDC. The only way to gain power or economy is to
>> advance the timing once power has decreased from full takeoff power.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 6:14 PM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Kelly
>>>
>>> The points are yes set to 25 degrees btdc and yes it does use the points
>> to
>>> trigger timing to the electronic box, but the box controls the actual
>> firing
>>> of the coil and also does it in numerous spark cycles, I was told between
>> 2
>>> - 3 spark cycles depending on rpm. So the Electronic control does
> control
>>> the actual timing of the spark to the coils rotor, spark then goes to
>>> distributor block then to the spark plug lead then to the plug itself.
>>>
>>> The only current that flows thru the points when the Electronic control
> is
>>> on is the point trigger of the engine at 25 degrees btdc that's all and
> so
>>> the point will not arc or wear out.
>>>
>>> I have heard great things and I like how this works a lot. I think it is
>> a
>>> much safer system then some of the other systems out there.
>>>
>>> JUST my 2 cents worth.
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>> 40864 Emp
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
>>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 4:34 PM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>>>
>>>
>>> John,
>>> Actually, having read through the web site again, the system does NOT
>>> change magneto timing. It uses one of the mag points to trigger, and
>>> provides a multiple spark for 20 degrees after the trigger. In other
>>> words, if your engine is timed to 25 degrees, it will fire at 25
>>> degrees all the time, except during starting. While this may give you
>>> smoother running and a tiny bit better combustion, it does NOTHING for
>>> advancing the timing event when at less than full power, such as in
>>> cruise. So it will do almost nothing for fuel efficiency, nor will it
>>> provide any additional power.
>>> Systems like the Lightspeed Plasma advance the timing event 10-15
>>> degrees when the engine is producing something less than full power to
>>> gain efficiency when less detonation margin is needed.
>>> They do offer a manual advance for the MSD, but this would be
>>> hazardous to your engine where you have no immediate feedback if
>>> approaching ping or knock.
>>> Kelly
>>> 40866
>>> QB Wings
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:35 AM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Kelly
>>>>
>>>> Yes the electronic controller will change the timing totally. When the
>>>> electronic module is powered up it takes over for the mages but if it
>> dies
>>>> the mages will kick in. It is totally automated when turned on.
>>>>
>>>> John G. Cumins
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
> McMullen
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 6:24 PM
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: G3i Ignition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> While the concept looks good in some ways, what I don't understand is
>>>> what you actually gain over a well maintained magneto. The timing
>>>> doesn't change, still fixed. So you get a multiple spark..maybe that
>>>> helps if you have an oil burner, but seems like a lot of money to gain
>>>> very little. Maybe I am missing something, maybe I misread.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 6:42 PM, John Cumins <jcumins@jcis.net> wrote:
>>>>> Jesse
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am going to go with this ignition system it totally make since to me
>>>> being
>>>>> a old a&p having mags as a backup if the electronics goes out is the
>> only
>>>>> way to go.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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