---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/14/09: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:50 AM - Re: Re: Voyager Lifetime chart subscription (Jesse Saint) 2. 06:41 PM - Nylon Brake Tee Replacement (Patrick Pulis) 3. 06:59 PM - Weld-On case study #605 (Bill Mauledriver Watson) 4. 06:59 PM - Re: Nylon Brake Tee Replacement (Linn Walters) 5. 07:44 PM - Re: Weld-On case study #605 (Seano) 6. 07:53 PM - Re: Weld-On case study #605 (nukeflyboy) 7. 08:15 PM - Re: G3i Ignition (sc_acro2) 8. 08:41 PM - Re: Re: Weld-On case study #605 (Dave Leikam) 9. 09:25 PM - Re: Nylon Brake Tee Replacement (Deems Davis) 10. 09:44 PM - Re: Re: G3i Ignition (Kelly McMullen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Voyager Lifetime chart subscription From: Jesse Saint I think the only XM thing built into the 496 is the software. The XM "box" is the hockey puck antenna. That is the whole XM receiver. I wonder if anybody has been able to decode the data stream coming from the receiver to be able to use it with another system. do not archive Jesse Saint Saint Aviation, Inc. jesse@saintaviation.com Cell: 352-427-0285 Fax: 815-377-3694 On Dec 13, 2009, at 11:40 PM, dougwells wrote: > > Hi Don, > > I'm not 100% sure but I think the wx weather has to come from XM's WX box. The team at Seattle Avionics could tell you for sure. I have a seperate XM box that picks up the weather and then communicates it to my SkyPad via bluetooth. > > On the 496, as you know, the XM "box" is built into the unit. Great idea and I wish all vendors could offer this for their system but I guess Garmin has the exclusive right to have the XM box being built in. Smart of Garmin, I guess. > > I would be once you have the SkyPad, you would not want/need your 496. All you would need is the XM bluetooth box and you should be good to go.... > > Best, > > Doug > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277466#277466 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:58 PM PST US From: Patrick Pulis Subject: RV10-List: Nylon Brake Tee Replacement For those of you who have installed the aftermarket Matco brake lines, coul d someone please tell me what replacement Tee fitting they used in lieu of the nylon Tee.- Is a single replacement fitting available which screws in to the brake fluid reservoir which protrudes through the firewall?=0A-=0A Install the F-271-N-04X02 Male Nylon Tee to the VA-107 Brake Reservoir as s hown in Figure 3.=0AConnect the brake lines created on Page 38-6 to the F-7 =271-N-04X02 Male Nylon Tee as shown in Figure 2 and Figure 3.=0A-=0AKi nd regards and well wishes for the festive season to you all.=0A-=0APatri ck Pulis=0A#40299=0AAdelaide, South Australia=0A=0A=0A _______________ ___________________________________________________________________=0ASee w hat's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.c om/session-times/ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:04 PM PST US From: Bill Mauledriver Watson Subject: RV10-List: Weld-On case study #605 I just finished doing my 2 right side windows using Weld-On. It went well and I feel confident finishing up with it. Thought I'd share the experience. Going into it, I bought the Weld-On before thoroughly researching peoples' experiences documented here on the list. In the end, I decided that I wouldn't go the epoxy resin and flock route because I sensed this would be the least strong solution. I didn't take Dave Saylor's approach to an easily replaceable window because it was the most demanding in terms of craftsmanship. In any case, I intended to overlay the joint with cloth and resin for a good finish. I would have probably tried one of the other adhesives discussed here by others but I had already made the investment in Weld-On from Vans. So I went with the factory solution. Weld-on has a strong chemical/plastic kind of smell and it can linger. Might not be the best thing to use in an attached garage. Even though it was cold out, I ran an exhaust fan and let some air thru so the smell didn't build up. I wore a simple paper mask the first time but used a mask with fresh filter cannisters the second and felt better about it. Closing up the containers and otherwise disposing of all droppings helps. I used the aluminum fingers and cleco clamping method exclusively. I removed the fingers about 90 minutes after setting them. Works well so far. Weld-on sets up fast but not too fast. My shop was probably in the low 70s and dropping. When I added the catalyst, I didn't try to get every last drop. Mixed for 3 minutes and started applying it using an acid brush. Is Weld-on is too thin and runny? It's ok, at least at 70F degrees. Not that hard to handle. Per some advice here on the list, I put a thick lumpy bead near the outside edge of the cutout. That is, in the crotch of the "L". On the first window I didn't apply any directly to the window. On the second, I put a thin layer on the window with the same bead on the fuselage. As someone said, it easier to clean up the excess than to fill up any gaps. That worked well. I was really rushed trying to make sure I didn't run out of working time but there was no need. It seems to skin over pretty quickly but actually a certain amount of drying seems to form a skin on small portions of adhesive. But if you go back to the mixing cup, you won't find a skin and there's no change in consistency after say 15 or 20 minutes. So you actually have lots of working time. When it does set, it does heat up in the cup so be careful about disposing in the trash before set up. Weld-on forms messy little strings if you try to work with it quickly. The solution here is to slow down and don't form strings. There's plenty of time. And it cleans up easily even after it starts to set up. Regarding surface prep and clean-up; I used acetone as the last step in surface prep with the thought that "it does matter how much you use". For clean-up I used a 50:50 mix of acetone and mineral spirits. This works pretty well even an hour or two after starting. I found that brush on protective film from Spruce useful. I tried keeping the plastic from the factory on the Plexiglas but found that replacing it with the brush on stuff gave me a clearer view of things. So once I trimmed the plexi down to it's final size, I removed the outer plastic and brushed on the blue stuff from Spruce. Then I removed the plastic from the inner surface and used plastic tape to mask the glue line. I used paper to mask of the inner surface to protect from the Weld-on. After gluing and clamping the plexi in place, I cleaned up the squeezed out Weld-on with the 50:50 mix, Then removed the tape and paper on the inner surface. This left a pretty clean line but a small spatula helped cleanup up some squeeze-out and the 50:50 mix cleaned up the rest. I'll probably coat the inner surface with the brush on film to protect from scratches during interior work. There seems to be several workable approaches to gluing in the windows. The factory approach with Weld-on seems to work well when combined with the intelligence on this list. Thanks to those who wrote up their experiences before. Bill "window 3 is teed up for tomorrow" Watson 40605 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:04 PM PST US From: Linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Nylon Brake Tee Replacement Patrick, there's really no reason to change those fittings ...... unless you just don't like the way the lines 'flow'. I didn't, so I used a brass 'T' with a nipple to connect the foot of the 'T' to the reservoir, and two 90's so that the lines flow parallel back to the cylinders ..... trimmed the plastic lines and used brass compression fittings on the tubing. Don't forget the insert inside the plastic tube. I also switched the plastic lines from the passenger side to the pilot side from the plastic to hard aluminum ..... which required inverting the master cylinders. I'll have aluminum lines from the passenger master cylinders all the way to the lower end of the gear leg, and switch to a short piece of flex to the brake cylinder. Inverting the master cylinders meant welding a longer tab to the pedal. I just didn't like the plastic on the pressure side, and the way the plastic tubing looked like spaghetti tossed in there. I know, you can't see it when the airplane's done .... but I know what it looks like. Linn Patrick Pulis wrote: > *For those of you who have installed the aftermarket Matco brake > lines, could someone please tell me what replacement Tee fitting they > used in lieu of the nylon Tee. Is a single replacement fitting > available which screws into the brake fluid reservoir which protrudes > through the firewall?* > ** > *Install the F-271-N-04X02 Male Nylon Tee to the VA-107 Brake > Reservoir as shown in Figure 3.* > > ** > > *Connect the brake lines created on Page 38-6 to the F-7=271-N-04X02 > Male Nylon Tee as shown in Figure 2 and Figure 3.* > > ** > > *Kind regards and well wishes for the festive season to you all.* > > ** > > *Patrick Pulis* > > *#40299* > > *Adelaide, South Australia* > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now > . > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:34 PM PST US From: "Seano" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weld-On case study #605 Thanks for the helpful write-up. I will be using Weld-On as well and it's coming up soon on my build. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Mauledriver Watson" Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 8:00 PM Subject: RV10-List: Weld-On case study #605 > > > I just finished doing my 2 right side windows using Weld-On. It went well > and I feel confident finishing up with it. Thought I'd share the > experience. > > Going into it, I bought the Weld-On before thoroughly researching > peoples' experiences documented here on the list. In the end, I decided > that I wouldn't go the epoxy resin and flock route because I sensed this > would be the least strong solution. I didn't take Dave Saylor's approach > to an easily replaceable window because it was the most demanding in terms > of craftsmanship. In any case, I intended to overlay the joint with > cloth and resin for a good finish. I would have probably tried one of the > other adhesives discussed here by others but I had already made the > investment in Weld-On from Vans. So I went with the factory solution. > > Weld-on has a strong chemical/plastic kind of smell and it can linger. > Might not be the best thing to use in an attached garage. Even though it > was cold out, I ran an exhaust fan and let some air thru so the smell > didn't build up. I wore a simple paper mask the first time but used a > mask with fresh filter cannisters the second and felt better about it. > Closing up the containers and otherwise disposing of all droppings helps. > > I used the aluminum fingers and cleco clamping method exclusively. I > removed the fingers about 90 minutes after setting them. Works well so > far. > > Weld-on sets up fast but not too fast. My shop was probably in the low > 70s and dropping. When I added the catalyst, I didn't try to get every > last drop. Mixed for 3 minutes and started applying it using an acid > brush. > Is Weld-on is too thin and runny? It's ok, at least at 70F degrees. Not > that hard to handle. > Per some advice here on the list, I put a thick lumpy bead near the > outside edge of the cutout. That is, in the crotch of the "L". On the > first window I didn't apply any directly to the window. On the second, I > put a thin layer on the window with the same bead on the fuselage. As > someone said, it easier to clean up the excess than to fill up any gaps. > That worked well. I was really rushed trying to make sure I didn't run > out of working time but there was no need. It seems to skin over pretty > quickly but actually a certain amount of drying seems to form a skin on > small portions of adhesive. But if you go back to the mixing cup, you > won't find a skin and there's no change in consistency after say 15 or 20 > minutes. So you actually have lots of working time. When it does set, it > does heat up in the cup so be careful about disposing in the trash before > set up. > Weld-on forms messy little strings if you try to work with it quickly. > The solution here is to slow down and don't form strings. There's plenty > of time. And it cleans up easily even after it starts to set up. > > Regarding surface prep and clean-up; I used acetone as the last step in > surface prep with the thought that "it does matter how much you use". For > clean-up I used a 50:50 mix of acetone and mineral spirits. This works > pretty well even an hour or two after starting. > I found that brush on protective film from Spruce useful. I tried > keeping the plastic from the factory on the Plexiglas but found that > replacing it with the brush on stuff gave me a clearer view of things. > So once I trimmed the plexi down to it's final size, I removed the outer > plastic and brushed on the blue stuff from Spruce. Then I removed the > plastic from the inner surface and used plastic tape to mask the glue > line. I used paper to mask of the inner surface to protect from the > Weld-on. After gluing and clamping the plexi in place, I cleaned up the > squeezed out Weld-on with the 50:50 mix, Then removed the tape and paper > on the inner surface. This left a pretty clean line but a small spatula > helped cleanup up some squeeze-out and the 50:50 mix cleaned up the rest. > I'll probably coat the inner surface with the brush on film to protect > from scratches during interior work. > > There seems to be several workable approaches to gluing in the windows. > The factory approach with Weld-on seems to work well when combined with > the intelligence on this list. > > Thanks to those who wrote up their experiences before. > Bill "window 3 is teed up for tomorrow" Watson > 40605 > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:03 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Weld-On case study #605 From: "nukeflyboy" Bill, My experience was very similar to yours. I had no difficulty with the Weld-on except I was too stingy with my first window. Put it on thick is the best advice. It comes off easy enough with a little attention. The trick is to not wait too long to start the cleanup but not start it too early. I also used the aluminum clips to hold it in place. The only caution is to be careful with acetone near the plexi. All ketones are damaging and can cause crazing or clouding of the plexi. As long as you only use it where you plan to cover it with a layer of glass you should be ok. Having had a fiberglass strip epoxied to an RV-6 canopy depart in flight (two separate occasions) I don't trust epoxy to bond to plexiglass. -------- Dave Moore RV-6 flying RV-10 QB - FWF Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277569#277569 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:16 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: G3i Ignition From: "sc_acro2" OK guys, you left me out on this topic. This forum topic was brought up earlier today during a phone conversation so I thought I would take a look. Little confusion, however not to bad. First of all there are a lot of good facts here and some that might need more insight. !) Does the G3i advance the timing beyond the magneto trigger points signal (NO) 2) Does it have an option to control timing (YES) manually? 2) Is it necessary to advance the timing on a multiple spark discharge system in aircraft use? (NO) Heres why, the engines RPM operating is very small window 2100 - 2700, not like in an automobile 700 5000 rpm. When there is a small RPM operating range optimal performance and economy can be obtained with fixed timing. There is not much to gain by driving the timing all over the place. Are there benefits to advancing the timing on a SINGLE spark system? Only at low power settings (60% or less) and higher than 12,500ft. This is a quote from Unison/ Lasar. With the understanding flame propagation heres why. X amount of air fuel mixture goes into the cylinder creates X amount of btu. When flame travel is slow you need to ramp up the ignition timing on a SINGLE spark system to get that complete burn @ peak cylinder pressure. Now with a non advancing MULTABLE spark discharge system with same amount of fuel, same amount of btus created, however this done in a shorter window of time from the multiple spark ignition of the air fuel mixture to get that complete burn. Just happens quicker. As far as air fuel mixture in aircraft engine, it is very poor atomization so multiple spark discharge just does a better job then a single spark system. 3) Field tested and testimonials show that fuel economy is improved 8 to 14% and static dyno pulls have shown an average 2 5% in power gains with stock timing configurations. There are many more benefits that the G3i system offers and we are always open to any discussion or questions pertaining to aircraft ignition systems or engine management peripherals. Thanks for all your interest in the G3i system Thomas Shpakow www.g3ignition.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277572#277572 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:46 PM PST US From: "Dave Leikam" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Weld-On case study #605 I found putting the mixed Weldon in a triangular squeeze bag with about a 1/4 inch cut opening works really well to apply a nice bead. And yes, you have to work steady, but there is plenty of time to do a good job. Dave Leikam ----- Original Message ----- From: "nukeflyboy" Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 9:52 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Weld-On case study #605 > > Bill, > > My experience was very similar to yours. I had no difficulty with the > Weld-on except I was too stingy with my first window. Put it on thick is > the best advice. It comes off easy enough with a little attention. The > trick is to not wait too long to start the cleanup but not start it too > early. I also used the aluminum clips to hold it in place. > > The only caution is to be careful with acetone near the plexi. All > ketones are damaging and can cause crazing or clouding of the plexi. As > long as you only use it where you plan to cover it with a layer of glass > you should be ok. > > Having had a fiberglass strip epoxied to an RV-6 canopy depart in flight > (two separate occasions) I don't trust epoxy to bond to plexiglass. > > -------- > Dave Moore > RV-6 flying > RV-10 QB - FWF > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277569#277569 > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:05 PM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: Nylon Brake Tee Replacement If you're talking about the Bonaco brake lines, Yup just an AN Tee fitting. http://deemsrv10.com/album/Final%20Assembly/slides/DSC06980.html Deems Davis N519PJ www.deemsrv10.com Patrick Pulis wrote: > *For those of you who have installed the aftermarket Matco brake > lines, could someone please tell me what replacement Tee fitting they > used in lieu of the nylon Tee. Is a single replacement fitting > available which screws into the brake fluid reservoir which protrudes > through the firewall?* > ** > *Install the F-271-N-04X02 Male Nylon Tee to the VA-107 Brake > Reservoir as shown in Figure 3.* > > ** > > *Connect the brake lines created on Page 38-6 to the F-7=271-N-04X02 > Male Nylon Tee as shown in Figure 2 and Figure 3.* > > ** > > *Kind regards and well wishes for the festive season to you all.* > > ** > > *Patrick Pulis* > > *#40299* > > *Adelaide, South Australia* > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now > . > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:05 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: G3i Ignition Hmmm, color me skeptical. Here's why. The vast majority of auto applications for 6 and 8 cyl engines with automatic transmissions operate between 1500 and 3000 rpm 90 percent of the time, not much different than aircraft (unless you are a real leadfoot). Their ignition systems are also optimized for peak torque in that same range with advanced timing. Now electronic, used to be mechanical and vacuum advance. Aircraft didn't incorporate mechanical or vacuum advance mechanisms because the manufacturers wanted to avoid additional potential points of failure, not because it wouldn't add power and efficiency. Efficiency wasn't a goal when the majority of engines were certified. Oh, and Unison DID show power and efficiency gains at normal altitudes and cruise power settings by advancing the timing. As for #3, I'd love to see some independent test data on the claimed power increases and fuel economy. Testimonials are a dime a dozen and worth less than said dime. Just been working long enough on auto and aircraft engines to have seen just about every fuel and ignition system marketed in the last 40 years. Can count on 1 hand the products that actually delivered even 50% of your claimed improvement. KM A&P/IA EAA Tech Counselor sc_acro2 wrote: > > OK guys, you left me out on this topic. Heres why, the engines RPM operating is very small window 2100 - 2700, not like in an automobile 700 5000 rpm. When there is a small RPM operating range optimal performance and economy can be obtained with fixed timing. There is not much to gain by driving the timing all over the place. Are there benefits to advancing the timing on a SINGLE spark system? Only at low power settings (60% or less) and higher than 12,500ft. This is a quote from Unison/ Lasar. With the understanding flame propagation heres why. X amount of air fuel mixture goes into the cylinder creates X amount of btu. When flame travel is slow you need to ramp up the ignition timing on a SINGLE spark system to get that complete burn @ peak cylinder pressure. Now with a non advancing MULTABLE spark discharge system with same amount of fuel, same amount of btus created, however this done in a shorte! > r window of time from the multiple spark ignition of the air fuel mixture to get that complete burn. Just happens quicker. As far as air fuel mixture in aircraft engine, it is very poor atomization so multiple spark discharge just does a better job then a single spark system. > 3) Field tested and testimonials show that fuel economy is improved 8 to 14% and static dyno pulls have shown an average 2 5% in power gains with stock timing configurations. > There are many more benefits that the G3i system offers and we are always open to any discussion or questions pertaining to aircraft ignition systems or engine management peripherals. > Thanks for all your interest in the G3i system > > Thomas Shpakow > www.g3ignition.com > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277572#277572 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv10-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv10-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.