Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:38 AM - Re: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR (Linn Walters)
2. 07:03 AM - Re: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR (DLM)
3. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR (Perry, Phil)
4. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR (DLM)
5. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR (Tim Olson)
6. 08:12 AM - loading the buss(s) (Linn Walters)
7. 08:47 AM - Re: Re: navworx (Tim Olson)
8. 09:05 AM - Re: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR (Roger Standley)
9. 09:48 AM - Re: navworx (NavWorx)
10. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR (Tim Olson)
11. 09:48 AM - lightning strike (DLM)
12. 09:50 AM - FW: lightning strike (DLM)
13. 10:13 AM - Re: FW: lightning strike (Linn Walters)
14. 10:53 AM - Oil Cooler and Engine Mount for Sale (Chuck Weyant)
15. 10:53 AM - Re: FW: lightning strike (John Cox)
16. 10:53 AM - Re: lightning strike (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
17. 10:55 AM - Re: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR (John Cumins)
18. 11:04 AM - Re: FW: lightning strike (Ben Westfall)
19. 11:41 AM - Re: lightning strike (Bob Turner)
20. 11:45 AM - Re: lightning strike (Bob Turner)
21. 11:50 AM - Re: lightning strike (Bob Turner)
22. 11:55 AM - Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR (Ben Westfall)
23. 11:55 AM - Re: lightning strike (Bob Turner)
24. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: lightning strike (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
25. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: lightning strike (John Cox)
26. 01:07 PM - Re: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR (John Cox)
27. 01:09 PM - Aileron Counterbalance Holes (Shawn Moon)
28. 01:09 PM - rudder skins (Sandra & Rick Lark)
29. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: lightning strike (Perry, Phil)
30. 01:43 PM - Re: Re: lightning strike (Fulgham)
31. 01:43 PM - Re: Re: lightning strike (Chris Colohan)
32. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
33. 01:48 PM - Re: Re: lightning strike (Tim Olson)
34. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR (DLM)
35. 01:54 PM - CBs (DLM)
36. 02:09 PM - Re: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR (Robin Marks)
37. 02:39 PM - Re: Aileron Counterbalance Holes (ricksked@cox.net)
38. 02:42 PM - Re: Re: lightning strike (ricksked@cox.net)
39. 02:49 PM - Loose steps ()
40. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
41. 02:49 PM - 406 ELT's (Robin Marks)
42. 03:04 PM - Most complete tool kit (Luis Rodriguez)
43. 03:28 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Perry, Phil)
44. 03:44 PM - Re: rudder skins (Jesse Saint)
45. 03:52 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (sean@braunandco.com)
46. 03:52 PM - Re: rudder skins (John Cumins)
47. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR (John Cumins)
48. 03:56 PM - Re: lightning strike (Bob Turner)
49. 03:58 PM - Re: rudder skins (Jesse Saint)
50. 03:58 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (John Cumins)
51. 03:58 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Pascal)
52. 04:31 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (sean@braunandco.com)
53. 04:44 PM - Re: Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone (Bill Schlatterer)
54. 04:44 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
55. 04:45 PM - Re: rudder skins (Jesse Saint)
56. 04:45 PM - Re: Re: lightning strike (DLM)
57. 04:45 PM - Re: Loose steps (Jeff Carpenter)
58. 04:52 PM - Re: 406 ELT's (Jim Berry)
59. 04:59 PM - Automotive Spark Plugs (rv8grover@verizon.net)
60. 05:02 PM - Re: 406 ELT's (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
61. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
62. 05:18 PM - Re: rudder skins (Jesse Saint)
63. 05:49 PM - Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (Don McDonald)
64. 05:49 PM - Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
65. 05:51 PM - Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (Carl Froehlich)
66. 05:51 PM - Re: Re: 406 ELT's (Robin Marks)
67. 05:51 PM - Re: Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone (Tim Olson)
68. 05:52 PM - Re: Automotive Spark Plugs (John Cumins)
69. 06:54 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (Kelly McMullen)
70. 06:58 PM - Re: Re: 406 ELT's (Dave Saylor)
71. 06:59 PM - Re: Re: lightning strike (Linn Walters)
72. 06:59 PM - Re: Most complete tool kit (sean@braunandco.com)
73. 07:12 PM - Re: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR (Kelly McMullen)
74. 07:26 PM - Re: rudder skins (Rick Lark)
75. 09:34 PM - Overhead map and panel lighting options (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
76. 09:52 PM - Overhead map and panel lighting options (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
77. 10:19 PM - Re: Overhead map and panel lighting options (Linn Walters)
78. 10:25 PM - Re: Overhead map and panel lighting options (Perry, Phil)
79. 10:33 PM - Re: Overhead map and panel lighting options (Dave Saylor)
80. 10:44 PM - Re: Overhead map and panel lighting options (Dave Saylor)
81. 11:05 PM - Re: Re: lightning strike (John Cox)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR |
How about a few panel lights and one white spot for the pilot's lap so
you can read a kneeboard and the essential instruments and leave all the
other illumination on the main buss?
Linn
Perry, Phil wrote:
>
> Still in the planning session, but it's on the E-bus. For the marginal
> amount of power it draws, there's really no benefit to moving off the
> E-bus - but there's a whole lot of drawbacks to losing it.
>
> Same thing for LED cabin lights. Having two hands to fly the airplane
> in an emergency beats holding a flashlight in one hand, flipping charts
> in the other, and flying the airplane with your knees. They draw very
> little power and the upside is much greater than the downside.
>
> Phil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:37 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>
>
> With the discussion of what's on the panel should the electricity fail,
> has anyone thought about the trim? Do the 2-buss people have trim on
> their emergency buss?
> Flying a partial panel approach without working trim is tough - I'd
> probably opt to fly the approach at whatever speed the trim was stuck
> at, rather than attempt to hold constant pitch pressure.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279121#279121
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR |
How about two buses and all each appliance to its own breaker; then make all
breakers pull able or toggle able. With everything selectable on either bus
trim can be on either bus and still be useable. My avionics master is a
toggle able breaker. The single alternator can push power to the essential
bus through a power diode or through an avionics breaker which connects the
two buses. The alternator can get its excitation voltage from the essential
bus battery instead of the main battery if off line. That way I still have
control over the electric fuel pump for landing as well as any other
appliances which may be needed for only a short time or after landing.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
--> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
How about a few panel lights and one white spot for the pilot's lap so you
can read a kneeboard and the essential instruments and leave all the other
illumination on the main buss?
Linn
Perry, Phil wrote:
>
> Still in the planning session, but it's on the E-bus. For the
> marginal amount of power it draws, there's really no benefit to moving
> off the E-bus - but there's a whole lot of drawbacks to losing it.
>
> Same thing for LED cabin lights. Having two hands to fly the airplane
> in an emergency beats holding a flashlight in one hand, flipping
> charts in the other, and flying the airplane with your knees. They
> draw very little power and the upside is much greater than the downside.
>
> Phil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:37 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>
>
> With the discussion of what's on the panel should the electricity
> fail, has anyone thought about the trim? Do the 2-buss people have
> trim on their emergency buss?
> Flying a partial panel approach without working trim is tough - I'd
> probably opt to fly the approach at whatever speed the trim was stuck
> at, rather than attempt to hold constant pitch pressure.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279121#279121
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR |
They only draw 20ma (per light) so it's really not worth putting your
interior lighting behind a lock and then throwing away the key.
(Assuming LED lighting - haven't done the math on others.)
If you give lighting to all seats your passenger can flip charts for
you. Or help you dig through the flight bag that's sitting the back
seat. Even at a full 1hr run time 20ma is nothing, but even then you
probably won't run the lights all the time. You can turn them on and
use them for 2 minutes and then shut them off. That essentially turns
the consumption into .6ma and you were still able to have lighting.
But even assuming you ran the lights for a full hour at 20ma, that's
only a second or two of extra run-time taken off your 15A emergency
load. I'd trade a couple of seconds for lights. Having lights
available for use will help you shave more than a couple of seconds in
time off your flight. You'll get your charts quicker, find buttons
quicker, be able to make decisions quicker. I'll bet the time ROI is
well over 1000%.
I just see no benefit to moving them off the E-bus.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Linn Walters [mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
<pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
How about a few panel lights and one white spot for the pilot's lap so
you can read a kneeboard and the essential instruments and leave all the
other illumination on the main buss?
Linn
Perry, Phil wrote:
>
> Still in the planning session, but it's on the E-bus. For the
marginal
> amount of power it draws, there's really no benefit to moving off the
> E-bus - but there's a whole lot of drawbacks to losing it.
>
> Same thing for LED cabin lights. Having two hands to fly the airplane
> in an emergency beats holding a flashlight in one hand, flipping
charts
> in the other, and flying the airplane with your knees. They draw very
> little power and the upside is much greater than the downside.
>
> Phil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:37 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>
>
> With the discussion of what's on the panel should the electricity
fail,
> has anyone thought about the trim? Do the 2-buss people have trim on
> their emergency buss?
> Flying a partial panel approach without working trim is tough - I'd
> probably opt to fly the approach at whatever speed the trim was stuck
> at, rather than attempt to hold constant pitch pressure.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279121#279121
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR |
Also I should have some real world knowledge of lightning strikes soon. A
friend of 40 years was flying the state of Illinois King Air several years
ago and took a lihtning strike wih the govenor aboard. I will pick his brain
about this.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:03 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
How about two buses and all each appliance to its own breaker; then make all
breakers pull able or toggle able. With everything selectable on either bus
trim can be on either bus and still be useable. My avionics master is a
toggle able breaker. The single alternator can push power to the essential
bus through a power diode or through an avionics breaker which connects the
two buses. The alternator can get its excitation voltage from the essential
bus battery instead of the main battery if off line. That way I still have
control over the electric fuel pump for landing as well as any other
appliances which may be needed for only a short time or after landing.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
--> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
How about a few panel lights and one white spot for the pilot's lap so you
can read a kneeboard and the essential instruments and leave all the other
illumination on the main buss?
Linn
Perry, Phil wrote:
>
> Still in the planning session, but it's on the E-bus. For the
> marginal amount of power it draws, there's really no benefit to moving
> off the E-bus - but there's a whole lot of drawbacks to losing it.
>
> Same thing for LED cabin lights. Having two hands to fly the airplane
> in an emergency beats holding a flashlight in one hand, flipping
> charts in the other, and flying the airplane with your knees. They
> draw very little power and the upside is much greater than the downside.
>
> Phil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:37 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>
>
> With the discussion of what's on the panel should the electricity
> fail, has anyone thought about the trim? Do the 2-buss people have
> trim on their emergency buss?
> Flying a partial panel approach without working trim is tough - I'd
> probably opt to fly the approach at whatever speed the trim was stuck
> at, rather than attempt to hold constant pitch pressure.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279121#279121
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR |
I put in touch lights above the rear passengers, where the
seatbelts attach. Gives them battery powered lighting
that is independent of all busses, and no need to run wires.
Can provide pics if you want.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Perry, Phil wrote:
>
> They only draw 20ma (per light) so it's really not worth putting your
> interior lighting behind a lock and then throwing away the key.
> (Assuming LED lighting - haven't done the math on others.)
>
> If you give lighting to all seats your passenger can flip charts for
> you. Or help you dig through the flight bag that's sitting the back
> seat. Even at a full 1hr run time 20ma is nothing, but even then you
> probably won't run the lights all the time. You can turn them on and
> use them for 2 minutes and then shut them off. That essentially turns
> the consumption into .6ma and you were still able to have lighting.
>
> But even assuming you ran the lights for a full hour at 20ma, that's
> only a second or two of extra run-time taken off your 15A emergency
> load. I'd trade a couple of seconds for lights. Having lights
> available for use will help you shave more than a couple of seconds in
> time off your flight. You'll get your charts quicker, find buttons
> quicker, be able to make decisions quicker. I'll bet the time ROI is
> well over 1000%.
>
> I just see no benefit to moving them off the E-bus.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linn Walters [mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:29 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>
> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>
> How about a few panel lights and one white spot for the pilot's lap so
> you can read a kneeboard and the essential instruments and leave all the
>
> other illumination on the main buss?
> Linn
>
> Perry, Phil wrote:
>>
>> Still in the planning session, but it's on the E-bus. For the
> marginal
>> amount of power it draws, there's really no benefit to moving off the
>> E-bus - but there's a whole lot of drawbacks to losing it.
>>
>> Same thing for LED cabin lights. Having two hands to fly the airplane
>> in an emergency beats holding a flashlight in one hand, flipping
> charts
>> in the other, and flying the airplane with your knees. They draw very
>> little power and the upside is much greater than the downside.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:37 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>>
>>
>> With the discussion of what's on the panel should the electricity
> fail,
>> has anyone thought about the trim? Do the 2-buss people have trim on
>> their emergency buss?
>> Flying a partial panel approach without working trim is tough - I'd
>> probably opt to fly the approach at whatever speed the trim was stuck
>> at, rather than attempt to hold constant pitch pressure.
>>
>> --------
>> Bob Turner
>> RV-10 QB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279121#279121
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | loading the buss(s) |
DLM wrote:
>
My point was to split some distributed loads (like lights) so as to not
lose ALL of an item if you have failure of one buss or the other.
Phil's observation was a good one .... don't put all your eggs in one
frying pan. :-P
> How about two buses and all each appliance to its own breaker; then
> make all breakers pull able or toggle able.
I went with two fuse blocks. One fuse block feeds power to each item
mounted on the instrument panel, and is attached to the panel.
The other fuse block feeds power to all the items mounted on the
airframe, and is attached to the airframe, so I really don't have a true
essential buss ..... yet. I contemplated splitting power for the glass
panels and radios (two each) ..... but since I only have one ships
battery and a backup battery for each glass panel ..... I dunno. I have
alarms for diminished charge current and voltage so I'll know instantly
when the alternator or main battery goes offline.
My panel is completely removable through plugs/sockets or, in the case
of main power feeds, a screw (or two .... I'm not done yet!).
Be careful ..... a lot of the 'pullable' breakers aren't meant to be
used as a switch.
> With everything selectable on either bus trim can be on either bus and
still be useable.
That's a lot of redundancy! And expensive! A complete redundant
electrical system is the next step up! I think of the essential buss as
just that .... powering the minimum that I need to safely fly the
airplane if I 'lose something'.
> My avionics master is a toggle able breaker.
> The single alternator can push power to the essential bus through a
> power diode or through an avionics breaker which connects the two
> buses. The alternator can get its excitation voltage from the
> essential bus battery instead of the main battery if off line. That
> way I still have control over the electric fuel pump for landing as
> well as any other appliances which may be needed for only a short
> time or after landing.
I'm only interested in getting to the closest airport ..... I'm not
interested in having all the 'nice' stuff, like landing lights or boost
pump. I can land without them. All I really need is my GPS to find the
airport, and the equipment to do an IFR approach if necessary. And I
can even do without a radio if necessary.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn
> Walters Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:29 AM To:
> rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup
> instrumentation for IFR
>
> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>
> How about a few panel lights and one white spot for the pilot's lap
> so you can read a kneeboard and the essential instruments and leave
> all the other illumination on the main buss? Linn
>
> Perry, Phil wrote:
> > <Phil.Perry@netapp.com>
> >
> > Still in the planning session, but it's on the E-bus. For the
> > marginal amount of power it draws, there's really no benefit to
> > moving off the E-bus - but there's a whole lot of drawbacks to
> > losing it.
> >
> > Same thing for LED cabin lights. Having two hands to fly the
> > airplane in an emergency beats holding a flashlight in one hand,
> > flipping charts in the other, and flying the airplane with your
> > knees. They draw very little power and the upside is much greater
> > than the downside.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: Bob Turner
> > [mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu] Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009
> > 12:37 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Re:
> > suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
> >
> > <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>
> >
> > With the discussion of what's on the panel should the electricity
> > fail, has anyone thought about the trim? Do the 2-buss people have
> > trim on their emergency buss? Flying a partial panel approach
> > without working trim is tough - I'd probably opt to fly the
> > approach at whatever speed the trim was stuck at, rather than
> > attempt to hold constant pitch pressure.
> >
> > -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279121#279121
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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|
They got things straghtened out with Network Solutions
and it should be available now. See how it looks.
http://www.navworx.com/
(I'm not affiliated with them in any way, but having
met and flown with Bill, it's nice to be able to notify
them when something is amiss...they're pretty responsive)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I talked to Bill a bit ago after he called me from
> getting my message about the odd DNS and hosting
> information. It sounds like recently they switched
> Web designers, web hosting companies, and DNS hosting
> companies and somewhere in all of that there seems
> to be a little misdirection of the domain's DNS.
> He's looking into it tonight and provided he can
> get into the tools and get a hold of support people
> at the hosting company they should be able to get
> it all straightened out. "it happens" I guess.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> Dj Merrill wrote:
>>
>> On 12/29/2009 4:58 PM, Richard Gurley wrote:
>>> It does not work for me either in IN
>>>
>>> http://www.navworx.com/ has been working for me for the past 2 days.
>>
>>
>> Works for me in Maine.
>>
>> -Dj
>> do not archive
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR |
Tim,
Which touch lights did you use and where did you find them?
Thank you
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Olson<mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
<Tim@myrv10.com<mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
I put in touch lights above the rear passengers, where the
seatbelts attach. Gives them battery powered lighting
that is independent of all busses, and no need to run wires.
Can provide pics if you want.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Perry, Phil wrote:
<Phil.Perry@netapp.com<mailto:Phil.Perry@netapp.com>>
>
> They only draw 20ma (per light) so it's really not worth putting
your
> interior lighting behind a lock and then throwing away the key.
> (Assuming LED lighting - haven't done the math on others.)
>
> If you give lighting to all seats your passenger can flip charts for
> you. Or help you dig through the flight bag that's sitting the back
> seat. Even at a full 1hr run time 20ma is nothing, but even then
you
> probably won't run the lights all the time. You can turn them on
and
> use them for 2 minutes and then shut them off. That essentially
turns
> the consumption into .6ma and you were still able to have lighting.
>
> But even assuming you ran the lights for a full hour at 20ma, that's
> only a second or two of extra run-time taken off your 15A emergency
> load. I'd trade a couple of seconds for lights. Having lights
> available for use will help you shave more than a couple of seconds
in
> time off your flight. You'll get your charts quicker, find buttons
> quicker, be able to make decisions quicker. I'll bet the time ROI
is
> well over 1000%.
>
> I just see no benefit to moving them off the E-bus.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linn Walters [mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:29 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>
> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net<mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>>
>
> How about a few panel lights and one white spot for the pilot's lap
so
> you can read a kneeboard and the essential instruments and leave all
the
>
> other illumination on the main buss?
> Linn
>
> Perry, Phil wrote:
<Phil.Perry@netapp.com<mailto:Phil.Perry@netapp.com>>
>>
>> Still in the planning session, but it's on the E-bus. For the
> marginal
>> amount of power it draws, there's really no benefit to moving off
the
>> E-bus - but there's a whole lot of drawbacks to losing it.
>>
>> Same thing for LED cabin lights. Having two hands to fly the
airplane
>> in an emergency beats holding a flashlight in one hand, flipping
> charts
>> in the other, and flying the airplane with your knees. They draw
very
>> little power and the upside is much greater than the downside.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:37 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>>
<bobturner@alum.rpi.edu<mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>>
>>
>> With the discussion of what's on the panel should the electricity
> fail,
>> has anyone thought about the trim? Do the 2-buss people have trim
on
>> their emergency buss?
>> Flying a partial panel approach without working trim is tough - I'd
>> probably opt to fly the approach at whatever speed the trim was
stuck
>> at, rather than attempt to hold constant pitch pressure.
>>
>> --------
>> Bob Turner
>> RV-10 QB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279121#279121<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279121#279121>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List<http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?RV10-List>
Message 9
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I want to thank Tim Olson for contacting us about the website problems that were
experienced over the last 10 days or so. We now have the situation corrected
and everyone should be able to access the website.
On another note, I asked Matt to remove a post that contained our installation
manual. We encourage anyone who wants the manual to contact us (preferably by
signing up for our "newsletter"). As we make improvements or corrections to
the manual, we'll be able to more easily keep you updated as well.
--------
Best Regards,
Bill Moffitt
NavWorx Incorporated
888-628-9679
972-475-5613 (main)
469-327-2683 (fax)
www.navworx.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279246#279246
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR |
Here are the ones I used:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20070321/index.html
I just got them at the local Menards (like Lowes / Home Depot, only
not as cool. :) )
I didn't use the sticky-tape backing to put them up, but instead
shot a glob of E6000 glue on the back plate, and REMOVED the
magnet. This is a big deal...that magnet is strong enough
to affect AHRS that are feet away and compasses in the cabin.
It pops out real easily. I just made those aluminum plates
that go under the nut/bolt and give a place to glue it up.
No wires required. I want to find a good way to pad those
bolts some day....been on my to-do list for quite a while.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
Roger Standley wrote:
> Tim,
>
> Which touch lights did you use and where did you find them?
>
> Thank you
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Tim Olson <mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:00 AM
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>
> <mailto:Tim@myrv10.com>>
>
> I put in touch lights above the rear passengers, where the
> seatbelts attach. Gives them battery powered lighting
> that is independent of all busses, and no need to run wires.
> Can provide pics if you want.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> Perry, Phil wrote:
> <Phil.Perry@netapp.com <mailto:Phil.Perry@netapp.com>>
> >
> > They only draw 20ma (per light) so it's really not worth putting your
> > interior lighting behind a lock and then throwing away the key.
> > (Assuming LED lighting - haven't done the math on others.)
> >
> > If you give lighting to all seats your passenger can flip charts for
> > you. Or help you dig through the flight bag that's sitting the back
> > seat. Even at a full 1hr run time 20ma is nothing, but even then you
> > probably won't run the lights all the time. You can turn them on and
> > use them for 2 minutes and then shut them off. That essentially
> turns
> > the consumption into .6ma and you were still able to have lighting.
> >
> > But even assuming you ran the lights for a full hour at 20ma, that's
> > only a second or two of extra run-time taken off your 15A emergency
> > load. I'd trade a couple of seconds for lights. Having lights
> > available for use will help you shave more than a couple of
> seconds in
> > time off your flight. You'll get your charts quicker, find buttons
> > quicker, be able to make decisions quicker. I'll bet the time ROI is
> > well over 1000%.
> >
> > I just see no benefit to moving them off the E-bus.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Linn Walters [mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:29 AM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
> >
> > <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net <mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>>
> >
> > How about a few panel lights and one white spot for the pilot's
> lap so
> > you can read a kneeboard and the essential instruments and leave
> all the
> >
> > other illumination on the main buss?
> > Linn
> >
> > Perry, Phil wrote:
> <Phil.Perry@netapp.com <mailto:Phil.Perry@netapp.com>>
> >>
> >> Still in the planning session, but it's on the E-bus. For the
> > marginal
> >> amount of power it draws, there's really no benefit to moving
> off the
> >> E-bus - but there's a whole lot of drawbacks to losing it.
> >>
> >> Same thing for LED cabin lights. Having two hands to fly the
> airplane
> >> in an emergency beats holding a flashlight in one hand, flipping
> > charts
> >> in the other, and flying the airplane with your knees. They
> draw very
> >> little power and the upside is much greater than the downside.
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:37 PM
> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> >> Subject: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
> >>
> <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu <mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>>
> >>
> >> With the discussion of what's on the panel should the electricity
> > fail,
> >> has anyone thought about the trim? Do the 2-buss people have trim on
> >> their emergency buss?
> >> Flying a partial panel approach without working trim is tough - I'd
> >> probably opt to fly the approach at whatever speed the trim was
> stuck
> >> at, rather than attempt to hold constant pitch pressure.
> >>
> >> --------
> >> Bob Turner
> >> RV-10 QB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279121#279121
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > nbsp; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the
> Annual link Free * AeroElectric http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you
> for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
> nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
> title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronicp;
> via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> _=============
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 11
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| Subject: | lightning strike |
Found one other anecdote: A Lancair took a strike and lost one com port of a
three screen Chelton system. engine info was lost until he could disconnect
the third screen. He then was able to access all info albeit on two screens.
Message 12
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| Subject: | FW: lightning strike |
Recived this from a friend
This was in the day before EFIS. Both strikes were in the Merlin. The
first one we were climbing out of Dallas dodging thunderstorms at 8 to 10
thousand feet when we got hit---We immediately lost both radios and the
autopilot. We did get communication back eventually but I can't remember
about the autopilot. The nose cone was mush and there were several pinholes
around the plane, mostly on wing tips and the bottom of the fuselage.
Another time we were climbing through 14000 feet between cells and in the
open-I was flying and we heard close thunder and I felt a slight jolt on the
yoke-Neither I or the other guy had any thought of a strike but we later
found we had taken a hit again on the nose, and a nick out of the left prop
and a crack in the left thrust bearing. We did not lose comm or any other
equipment-Both generators were knocked off but we reset and got them back.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: FW: lightning strike |
The pilot of a Skymaster across from my hangar at MLB was scrutinizing
his airplane, and I went over to see what was up. He and his wife were
on the way home when they flew between two big thunderheads, and got hit
by lightning. It took out a 1/2 dime size chunk from the prop, and
traveled back to the horizontal stab where it removed a whole line of
rivets from a rib, a burn hole in the elevator and left on a static wick
after making it frazzled. He said nothing failed. I asked him what the
strike sounded like, and he said he didn't know. "I couldn't hear
anything but my wife screaming!!!"
Linn
DLM wrote:
> Recived this from a friend
>
>
>
> This was in the day before EFIS. Both strikes were in the Merlin.
> The first one we were climbing out of Dallas dodging thunderstorms at
> 8 to 10 thousand feet when we got hit---We immediately lost both
> radios and the autopilot. We did get communication back eventually
> but I can't remember about the autopilot. The nose cone was mush and
> there were several pinholes around the plane, mostly on wing tips and
> the bottom of the fuselage.
>
>
>
> Another time we were climbing through 14000 feet between cells and in
> the open---I was flying and we heard close thunder and I felt a slight
> jolt on the yoke---Neither I or the other guy had any thought of a
> strike but we later found we had taken a hit again on the nose, and a
> nick out of the left prop and a crack in the left thrust bearing. We
> did not lose comm or any other equipment---Both generators were
> knocked off but we reset and got them back.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 14
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| Subject: | Oil Cooler and Engine Mount for Sale |
I just listed the following on Ebay:
#330390849669 Oil cooler
#330390852692 Engine Mount for O540 E4B5 Starduster Too.
Do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | FW: lightning strike |
Each of those bearings on the control surfaces should be checked for
resistance to movement and welding marks. That is the purpose for
bonding straps. Our fleet of regional aircraft are hit regularly - we
may even hold the record for most hits in each year. Every strike
requires a grounding of the aircraft until a thorough inspection is
completed. We use a Megger, which most RV-10 owners might not have
access to confirm the continued function of static dissipation wicks.
The charge wants to get out of the aircraft and is quite stubborn in its
seeking the path of least resistance to that goal.
Some might reconsider not flying anywhere near thunderheads to avoid the
damage.
Just food for thought to those who do not build with straps, P static
wicks or fly near Q's.
John Cox
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FW: lightning strike
The pilot of a Skymaster across from my hangar at MLB was scrutinizing
his airplane, and I went over to see what was up. He and his wife were
on the way home when they flew between two big thunderheads, and got hit
by lightning. It took out a 1/2 dime size chunk from the prop, and
traveled back to the horizontal stab where it removed a whole line of
rivets from a rib, a burn hole in the elevator and left on a static wick
after making it frazzled. He said nothing failed. I asked him what the
strike sounded like, and he said he didn't know. "I couldn't hear
anything but my wife screaming!!!"
Linn
DLM wrote:
Recived this from a friend
This was in the day before EFIS. Both strikes were in the Merlin. The
first one we were climbing out of Dallas dodging thunderstorms at 8 to
10 thousand feet when we got hit---We immediately lost both radios and
the autopilot. We did get communication back eventually but I can't
remember about the autopilot. The nose cone was mush and there were
several pinholes around the plane, mostly on wing tips and the bottom of
the fuselage.
Another time we were climbing through 14000 feet between cells and in
the open-I was flying and we heard close thunder and I felt a slight
jolt on the yoke-Neither I or the other guy had any thought of a strike
but we later found we had taken a hit again on the nose, and a nick out
of the left prop and a crack in the left thrust bearing. We did not
lose comm or any other equipment-Both generators were knocked off but we
reset and got them back.
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.howtocrimp.com">www.howtocrimp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
o
ntribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s
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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: lightning strike |
A lightning strike on an all electric airplane seems to be an exposure,
but in my very limited experience, I think a manageable one.
I've flown close to thunderstorms and will do so again. But I stay
visual when flying IFR. A very workable solution to flying around FL
and the SE US on a summer afternoon. I avoid underneath, stay in the
system, and use XM and ATC to avoid the cells. JAX controllers rock.
Under certain conditions, I'll do it at night.
I fly solid IMC when there aren't thunderstorms in it.
But, I scared myself for an extended period of time in an early IFR
flight when flying IMC with embedded cells. I never became aware of
lightning but assumed it was there somewhere. The cells were light but
distinct; smooth dry flight interrupted by turbulent vertical drafts and
varying amounts of rain. It didn't seem 'light' at the time. This was
pre-XM and even pre-Cheap Bastard so I had no eyes. ATC was vectoring
me around the build-ups until they stopped (too busy). Not knowing when
or how strong the next cell encounter would be was slow torture. A 180
put me over high ground before VFR would be reached. Landing required
more plan changing than I was comfortable doing. Straight ahead would
put me in flat land VFR before not too long so I droned on.
Thunderstorms - manageable but stay visual. Hours hand flying in solid
IMC - rare but quite doable. Embedded cells in solid IMC - not
manageable with only XM-eyes. I guess that's a personal minimum of sorts.
So I guess I'm saying if I get hit by lightning and the entire
electrical system is zonked, I'll fly the plane and land it because I
don't plan to be in the clouds.
Bill
DLM wrote:
> Found one other anecdote: A Lancair took a strike and lost one com
> port of a three screen Chelton system. engine info was lost until he
> could disconnect the third screen. He then was able to access all
> info albeit on two screens.
> *
> *
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR |
Ok here is my 2 cents worth. Being a retired USAF Flight engineer with
thousands of hours flying hard IFR world wide and in the worst weather ever,
and the least amount of good equipment, we did not even have GPS just INS
and Steam and Tape gages, but we did have Color Radar that was nice for
thunder storms.
I have been hit by Lightning numerous times, and never once did we loose
anything electrical at all. Remember the lightning is just a arc that is
going from negative to positive charge molecules. The current enters thru
usually a very small pin hole then travels thru the airframe structure, then
out a very large hole, usually on the tail of the airplane somewhere. The
only equipment that I have seen be affected by a lightning strike was the HO
radio and that was because the lightning exited the airplane via the HP
Radio antenna that was embedded into the Vertical stabilizer leading edge
panel. It blew out the front of the antenna and left a fist size hole in
it.
I truly think the thought process of a lighning strike is a none issue. The
is airplane wise. But nerve wise that's another issue. It will rattle the
best persons nerves. I truly thought we hit a wall the first time I was
struck by lightning. It will scare the SH******t out of you.
John Cumins
40864 Emp in pieces getting deburred and primed prior to assembly
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
I put in touch lights above the rear passengers, where the
seatbelts attach. Gives them battery powered lighting
that is independent of all busses, and no need to run wires.
Can provide pics if you want.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Perry, Phil wrote:
>
> They only draw 20ma (per light) so it's really not worth putting your
> interior lighting behind a lock and then throwing away the key.
> (Assuming LED lighting - haven't done the math on others.)
>
> If you give lighting to all seats your passenger can flip charts for
> you. Or help you dig through the flight bag that's sitting the back
> seat. Even at a full 1hr run time 20ma is nothing, but even then you
> probably won't run the lights all the time. You can turn them on and
> use them for 2 minutes and then shut them off. That essentially turns
> the consumption into .6ma and you were still able to have lighting.
>
> But even assuming you ran the lights for a full hour at 20ma, that's
> only a second or two of extra run-time taken off your 15A emergency
> load. I'd trade a couple of seconds for lights. Having lights
> available for use will help you shave more than a couple of seconds in
> time off your flight. You'll get your charts quicker, find buttons
> quicker, be able to make decisions quicker. I'll bet the time ROI is
> well over 1000%.
>
> I just see no benefit to moving them off the E-bus.
>
> Phil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linn Walters [mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:29 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>
> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>
> How about a few panel lights and one white spot for the pilot's lap so
> you can read a kneeboard and the essential instruments and leave all the
>
> other illumination on the main buss?
> Linn
>
> Perry, Phil wrote:
>>
>> Still in the planning session, but it's on the E-bus. For the
> marginal
>> amount of power it draws, there's really no benefit to moving off the
>> E-bus - but there's a whole lot of drawbacks to losing it.
>>
>> Same thing for LED cabin lights. Having two hands to fly the airplane
>> in an emergency beats holding a flashlight in one hand, flipping
> charts
>> in the other, and flying the airplane with your knees. They draw very
>> little power and the upside is much greater than the downside.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:37 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>>
>>
>> With the discussion of what's on the panel should the electricity
> fail,
>> has anyone thought about the trim? Do the 2-buss people have trim on
>> their emergency buss?
>> Flying a partial panel approach without working trim is tough - I'd
>> probably opt to fly the approach at whatever speed the trim was stuck
>> at, rather than attempt to hold constant pitch pressure.
>>
>> --------
>> Bob Turner
>> RV-10 QB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279121#279121
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | FW: lightning strike |
Many years ago a friend of mine who used to fly Fokker F28's before they
were retired from his airline got hit by lightning. He said it sounded like
a shotgun blast went off. It did trip a few breakers but nothing failed
entirely on the airplane. It hit pretty close to the nose and exited out
the tail somewhere. I don't recall the specifics but he said there were a
bunch of burn marks at the exit point and a pinhole where it hit. The F28
probably didn't have a single computer chip in it. He used to carry along
the garmin pilot III we use in our GA planes just to make me jealous of the
max speed when I used it next and he always said. "There's more technology
in this handheld then the entire rest of the jet".
Linn Walters wrote:
The pilot of a Skymaster across from my hangar at MLB was scrutinizing his
airplane, and I went over to see what was up. He and his wife were on the
way home when they flew between two big thunderheads, and got hit by
lightning. It took out a 1/2 dime size chunk from the prop, and traveled
back to the horizontal stab where it removed a whole line of rivets from a
rib, a burn hole in the elevator and left on a static wick after making it
frazzled. He said nothing failed. I asked him what the strike sounded
like, and he said he didn't know. "I couldn't hear anything but my wife
screaming!!!"
Linn
DLM wrote:
Recived this from a friend
This was in the day before EFIS. Both strikes were in the Merlin. The
first one we were climbing out of Dallas dodging thunderstorms at 8 to 10
thousand feet when we got hit---We immediately lost both radios and the
autopilot. We did get communication back eventually but I can't remember
about the autopilot. The nose cone was mush and there were several pinholes
around the plane, mostly on wing tips and the bottom of the fuselage.
Another time we were climbing through 14000 feet between cells and in the
open-I was flying and we heard close thunder and I felt a slight jolt on the
yoke-Neither I or the other guy had any thought of a strike but we later
found we had taken a hit again on the nose, and a nick out of the left prop
and a crack in the left thrust bearing. We did not lose comm or any other
equipment-Both generators were knocked off but we reset and got them back.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: lightning strike |
Something to keep in mind: most of these experiences were in all-metal airplanes.
Sitting inside a conducting cage offers quite a bit of protection.
But in a -10 the upper half of my body will be inside a non-conducting fiberglass
shell. It is very hard to predict how it would react to a lightning strike.
I plan to stay far away from TRW.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279266#279266
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: lightning strike |
Here's a regional airliner after a lightning strike.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279267#279267
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: lightning strike |
sorry, attachment didn't attach. Try again.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279268#279268
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/3755adc1_834.jpg
Message 22
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| Subject: | suitable backup instrumentation for IFR |
I know an airline pilot who flies CRJ 70's I believe. Theirs are equipped
with pretty nice all glass panels which one day just up and went blank on
him while shooting the ILS in solid IMC. All of his and the FO's screens
just blanked. He said they weren't out of the muck yet but pretty close.
They just kept going starring at the backup round gauges and didn't make any
drastic changes and continued to an uneventful landing. I never heard if
they figure out a cause.
-Ben
-----Original Message-----
I concur that flying IFR in IMC is a new experience with the EFIS. I bought
and installed a GRT Sport in my Glastar about 2 years before I had the 10
flying; I flew actual solid in the Glastar. Of Course I left the partial
panel gauges surrounding my EFIS. In addition I had a TT pictorial pilot AP.
My electrical system was primary and essential bus with single alternator
and one odyssey 680 and one 925 as essential. Both of my aircraft have panel
placard "EFIS FAILURE, Autopilot ON" if in IMC squawk 7700 tune 121.5 and
Mayday. The message is primarily there for my passengers but it does
illustrate the essential sequence of considerations. Obviously with a pilot
in the left seat as opposed to a passenger, a pilot would take more
considered actions to reduce electrical load and reboot the EFIS. Before we
put all our eggs in the EFIS basket , I suggest you peruse
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/nwpilot's_tranatlantic_flight.htm
-----Original Message-----
Brave.
I think I agree with your assessment - #1 seems pretty sound if the actual
failure scenarios are worked out, practiced, and known. That is, if EFIS 1
or AHRS #2 fails, or the 430W GPS fails, what do I do to identify the
failure, isolate the failed component, and fly with what's left. Maybe all
that is obvious but not to this yet-to-fly-with-an-EFIS-in-IFR pilot. Am I
comfortable with it? No. But I think many of us will become comfortable with
that kind of setup.
The more I think about it, backup batteries seem like a much better approach
to electron backup over dual/dual. I'm building dual/dual just because I
like the idea of an all electric airplane that can sit out on the ramp,
powered up, communicating and plotting weather until the battery dies - and
still being able to start it up and go. Just because.
I don't think many of us will spend much time in cloud sweating the $3k we
didn't spend on something. Fear inducing failures are going to be very, very
rare. When it occurs, it's Mayday time. And you can either keep it upright
long enough to survive, or not. "Gee, I wish I had the GPS option on my
ADI..." just isn't going to be a concern... or maybe it will.
The "electromagnetic pulse" issue is a doozy. If it's fission or fusion,
induced, who cares? If it's Mother doing her thing and you get unlucky,
hmmm. All electric airplane means you are hoping something survives. AS and
Alt steam guages means few brain cycles needs to be wasted there but I need
to know what straight ahead is. Waiting for the EFIS to re-boot is too long.
If the ADI keeps working, that could do it. Any GPS course readout with
steam guage AS and Alt could keep me afloat long enough to survive.
Something electrical has to survive the strike. Or you need to manage your
flying so you don't get struck.
The work 'survive' seems important to me. Planning for "partial failure
- complete mission" scenarios seems wrong minded to me. Everything needed is
expected to work all the time. If something fails, it's a full blown
emergency requiring only survival. The Cirrus chute starts making sense in
this environment. "Electron failure in deep IMC, hit the silk!"
Interesting stuff.
Bill "stuck in the house with a cold soaked shop" Watson
Ben Westfall wrote:
>
> I've been kicking around what I think would be a suitable level of
> backup instrumentation for IFR flight in our RV-10's and I haven't
> decided so I'd like to spark a conversation about it. I understand
> it's up their with primer wars but. I'm curious as to others thoughts
> on this.
>
> 1) Would you consider dual efis displays from the same manufacturer
> with two independent ahars and magnetometers sufficient
> instrumentation? Eg dual afs-4500 units w/o additional "steam gauges".
> Are software glitches that might affect both units simultaneously
> really worth considering?
>
> 2) Would a single ahars efis with additional gauges for airspeed,
> altitude, and some form of attitude/bank such as the ADI from trutrak
> or the newer RC Allen unit
> http://www.pca.aero/detail/9372/Instrument/R_C__ALLEN/RCA2600_Digital_
> Gyro/
> be better/worse than above?
>
> 3) Same scenario above but substitute another efis such as a dynon
> instead of "steam style gauges" - realestate becomes an issue and is
> it feasible if the unit is stuck all the way on the far right of the
> panel. If one puts Geoff's carbon fiber panel in is it reasonable to
> read the dynon from the left seat if it's on the far right of the
> panel? Any different than approaches from the right seat in spam cans?
>
> 4) Is having all electric/battery powered instrumentation really a
> form of backup? What about lightning strikes? Is it reasonable to
> think that any of your all electric attitude information will survive
> w/o vaccum gauges. Today there really isn't much of an alternative?
>
> 5) Would you consider the electrical system to play a big part of this
> decision as in Single Alt-Single Batt, Dual Alt-Single Batt,
> Dual-Dual? Obviously most the efis/attitude units can contain their
> own backup battery so is the redundancy in the entire electrical
> system a "must have" or KISS single-single?
>
> Personally I'm leaning towards the #1 solution above with the #5
> electrical system designs not really playing much of a part in the
> overall decision. I'd hate to one day have some form of issue though
> and go "geez wish I'd thrown the extra $3k at it as I'm sweating in
> the clouds with a dark panel". But anything that roasts your
> electrical system is going to most likely get all of it backup
> included. Has this happened?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Ben Westfall
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: lightning strike |
if it doesn't attach this time I'll give up.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279270#279270
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/lightning_145.pdf
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: lightning strike |
The imprint of Thor's hammer!
do not archive
Bob Turner wrote:
>
> if it doesn't attach this time I'll give up.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279270#279270
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/lightning_145.pdf
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: lightning strike |
Working for that exact airline that Ben is referencing with the
F-28/CRJ-700 turbofans and DHC8 turboprop, they all get their fair share
of lightning exposure. I have a lot of respect for lightning after
getting slapped by it on my first flight decades ago as a zero time
pilot and it happening right after liftoff. PDX tower saw the bolt and
asked if we were okay. I did not know any better at the time. I have
learned that it can cause significant structural damage, destroyed
static wicks, composite panels blown off and component damage which can
ignite adjacent flame resistant materials. It merits consideration.
Your picture Bob looks to be fire damage of the wire looms running to
the CB panels, aft of the CO's seat. It could indeed be lightning but
more likely the secondary effect of playing with Mother Nature on her
terms.
Years ago we had some great posts here on the RV-10 site of static wick
types, locations and advantages of bonding wires between control
surfaces and the primary structure. Our engine shop sees too much of
internal engine damage so I do not want to mitigate the position of P&W
on their mandatory inspection requirements. Our airline would not like
me to release some of the pictures which have been acquired
(clandestinely) while performing "Normal" day to day maintenance. But
Thanks Bob for the post.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: lightning strike
if it doesn't attach this time I'll give up.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279270#279270
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/lightning_145.pdf
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR |
We are always having joust sessions at work between opening and closing
of CBs. Pilots have one position (Pullable), Mechanics have a second
(Settable) and now the FAA wants to clarify a third (One time only) with
the new SIAD. Ya, all might read the SIAD on circuit breakers when
forming your position, as you formulate your build plans. Some feel a
CB is an Inflight form of Switch.
John C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:03 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
How about two buses and all each appliance to its own breaker; then make
all
breakers pull able or toggle able. With everything selectable on either
bus
trim can be on either bus and still be useable. My avionics master is a
toggle able breaker. The single alternator can push power to the
essential
bus through a power diode or through an avionics breaker which connects
the
two buses. The alternator can get its excitation voltage from the
essential
bus battery instead of the main battery if off line. That way I still
have
control over the electric fuel pump for landing as well as any other
appliances which may be needed for only a short time or after landing.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
--> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
How about a few panel lights and one white spot for the pilot's lap so
you
can read a kneeboard and the essential instruments and leave all the
other
illumination on the main buss?
Linn
Perry, Phil wrote:
>
> Still in the planning session, but it's on the E-bus. For the
> marginal amount of power it draws, there's really no benefit to moving
> off the E-bus - but there's a whole lot of drawbacks to losing it.
>
> Same thing for LED cabin lights. Having two hands to fly the airplane
> in an emergency beats holding a flashlight in one hand, flipping
> charts in the other, and flying the airplane with your knees. They
> draw very little power and the upside is much greater than the
downside.
>
> Phil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:37 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>
>
> With the discussion of what's on the panel should the electricity
> fail, has anyone thought about the trim? Do the 2-buss people have
> trim on their emergency buss?
> Flying a partial panel approach without working trim is tough - I'd
> probably opt to fly the approach at whatever speed the trim was stuck
> at, rather than attempt to hold constant pitch pressure.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279121#279121
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Aileron Counterbalance Holes |
For all of those who when the slow build route on the wings, how did you deburr
the A-1009 aileron counterbalance holes? For the life of me I can't figure out
a good way to do it. I'm sure it needs to be done as the stainless steel will
eat away at the rivets pretty quickly. Ideas?
--Shawn
Message 28
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Hi all
I've just started to countersink my rudder skins and am wondering if there
is any reason that the very top and bottom rivet holes could not also be
drilled to size and countersunk (CS4-4 rivets) while I'm doing the rest of
the skins. I couldn't find any reference to these holes in section 7.
Having said that maybe the fairings for top and bottom fit differently after
the rudder is assembled. Anyone know?
Also for the Canadian builders. I'm wondering how far I can assemble the
rudder before I have to stop to allow the MDRA inspection?
Thx
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: lightning strike |
..... converting Bob's PDF to JPG so the attachment works on the mailing
list.
Here it is:
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:55 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: lightning strike
if it doesn't attach this time I'll give up.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279270#279270
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/lightning_145.pdf
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: lightning strike |
This was not a lighting strike.....Cause by a fire inside while on the
Ground.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Turner" <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:54 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: lightning strike
>
> if it doesn't attach this time I'll give up.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279270#279270
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/lightning_145.pdf
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: lightning strike |
This URL offers a better image and explanation of that photo:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/airplane/lightning.asp
Chris
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Bob Turner <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
> if it doesn't attach this time I'll give up.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279270#279270
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/lightning_145.pdf
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR |
Very interesting.
I just talked to a friend who is a newly qualified C5 Galaxy Flight
Engineer. He hasn't experienced one yet but the concensus is
"non-issue" electrically.
Thanks
John Cumins wrote:
>
> Ok here is my 2 cents worth. Being a retired USAF Flight engineer with
> thousands of hours flying hard IFR world wide and in the worst weather ever,
> and the least amount of good equipment, we did not even have GPS just INS
> and Steam and Tape gages, but we did have Color Radar that was nice for
> thunder storms.
>
> I have been hit by Lightning numerous times, and never once did we loose
> anything electrical at all. Remember the lightning is just a arc that is
> going from negative to positive charge molecules. The current enters thru
> usually a very small pin hole then travels thru the airframe structure, then
> out a very large hole, usually on the tail of the airplane somewhere. The
> only equipment that I have seen be affected by a lightning strike was the HO
> radio and that was because the lightning exited the airplane via the HP
> Radio antenna that was embedded into the Vertical stabilizer leading edge
> panel. It blew out the front of the antenna and left a fist size hole in
> it.
>
> I truly think the thought process of a lighning strike is a none issue. The
> is airplane wise. But nerve wise that's another issue. It will rattle the
> best persons nerves. I truly thought we hit a wall the first time I was
> struck by lightning. It will scare the SH******t out of you.
>
> John Cumins
> 40864 Emp in pieces getting deburred and primed prior to assembly
>
>
> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:01 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>
>
> I put in touch lights above the rear passengers, where the
> seatbelts attach. Gives them battery powered lighting
> that is independent of all busses, and no need to run wires.
> Can provide pics if you want.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> Perry, Phil wrote:
>
>>
>> They only draw 20ma (per light) so it's really not worth putting your
>> interior lighting behind a lock and then throwing away the key.
>> (Assuming LED lighting - haven't done the math on others.)
>>
>> If you give lighting to all seats your passenger can flip charts for
>> you. Or help you dig through the flight bag that's sitting the back
>> seat. Even at a full 1hr run time 20ma is nothing, but even then you
>> probably won't run the lights all the time. You can turn them on and
>> use them for 2 minutes and then shut them off. That essentially turns
>> the consumption into .6ma and you were still able to have lighting.
>>
>> But even assuming you ran the lights for a full hour at 20ma, that's
>> only a second or two of extra run-time taken off your 15A emergency
>> load. I'd trade a couple of seconds for lights. Having lights
>> available for use will help you shave more than a couple of seconds in
>> time off your flight. You'll get your charts quicker, find buttons
>> quicker, be able to make decisions quicker. I'll bet the time ROI is
>> well over 1000%.
>>
>> I just see no benefit to moving them off the E-bus.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Linn Walters [mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net]
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:29 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>>
>> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> How about a few panel lights and one white spot for the pilot's lap so
>> you can read a kneeboard and the essential instruments and leave all the
>>
>> other illumination on the main buss?
>> Linn
>>
>> Perry, Phil wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Still in the planning session, but it's on the E-bus. For the
>>>
>> marginal
>>
>>> amount of power it draws, there's really no benefit to moving off the
>>> E-bus - but there's a whole lot of drawbacks to losing it.
>>>
>>> Same thing for LED cabin lights. Having two hands to fly the airplane
>>> in an emergency beats holding a flashlight in one hand, flipping
>>>
>> charts
>>
>>> in the other, and flying the airplane with your knees. They draw very
>>> little power and the upside is much greater than the downside.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:37 PM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>>>
>>>
>>> With the discussion of what's on the panel should the electricity
>>>
>> fail,
>>
>>> has anyone thought about the trim? Do the 2-buss people have trim on
>>> their emergency buss?
>>> Flying a partial panel approach without working trim is tough - I'd
>>> probably opt to fly the approach at whatever speed the trim was stuck
>>> at, rather than attempt to hold constant pitch pressure.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Bob Turner
>>> RV-10 QB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279121#279121
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: lightning strike |
Man that was some big hole!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Bob Turner wrote:
>
> sorry, attachment didn't attach. Try again.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279268#279268
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/3755adc1_834.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR |
I use the W23 and W31 series. ; hence pull able and toggle able seem to fit.
The only place I used switches were to ground the magnetos.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:05 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
We are always having joust sessions at work between opening and closing of
CBs. Pilots have one position (Pullable), Mechanics have a second
(Settable) and now the FAA wants to clarify a third (One time only) with the
new SIAD. Ya, all might read the SIAD on circuit breakers when forming your
position, as you formulate your build plans. Some feel a CB is an Inflight
form of Switch.
John C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:03 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
How about two buses and all each appliance to its own breaker; then make all
breakers pull able or toggle able. With everything selectable on either bus
trim can be on either bus and still be useable. My avionics master is a
toggle able breaker. The single alternator can push power to the essential
bus through a power diode or through an avionics breaker which connects the
two buses. The alternator can get its excitation voltage from the essential
bus battery instead of the main battery if off line. That way I still have
control over the electric fuel pump for landing as well as any other
appliances which may be needed for only a short time or after landing.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
--> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
How about a few panel lights and one white spot for the pilot's lap so you
can read a kneeboard and the essential instruments and leave all the other
illumination on the main buss?
Linn
Perry, Phil wrote:
>
> Still in the planning session, but it's on the E-bus. For the
> marginal amount of power it draws, there's really no benefit to moving
> off the E-bus - but there's a whole lot of drawbacks to losing it.
>
> Same thing for LED cabin lights. Having two hands to fly the airplane
> in an emergency beats holding a flashlight in one hand, flipping
> charts in the other, and flying the airplane with your knees. They
> draw very little power and the upside is much greater than the
downside.
>
> Phil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:37 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>
>
> With the discussion of what's on the panel should the electricity
> fail, has anyone thought about the trim? Do the 2-buss people have
> trim on their emergency buss?
> Flying a partial panel approach without working trim is tough - I'd
> probably opt to fly the approach at whatever speed the trim was stuck
> at, rather than attempt to hold constant pitch pressure.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279121#279121
>
>
>
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I don't know whether the FAA is changing their tune but these have been used
and FAA approved on GA aircraft for 40-50 years.
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR |
Spoken like a pilot that "hasn't experienced one yet"
Robin
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Mauledriver Watson
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
<MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
Very interesting.
I just talked to a friend who is a newly qualified C5 Galaxy Flight
Engineer. He hasn't experienced one yet but the concensus is
"non-issue" electrically.
Thanks
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Counterbalance Holes |
Hey Shawn!!
One of the few times I used the burraway bit. You can also use a 3/4 dowel with
some 100 grit paper to reach inside to knock off any burrs...use a sharp new
bit to drill the holes and let it go slow to eliminate them as much as possible
in the first place
Rick Sked
N246RS
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Shawn Moon <moons1999@yahoo.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Aileron Counterbalance Holes
For all of those who when the slow build route on the wings, how did you deburr
the A-1009 aileron counterbalance holes? For the life of me I can't figure out
a good way to do it. I'm sure it needs to be done as the stainless steel will
eat away at the rivets pretty quickly. Ideas?
--Shawn
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: lightning strike |
You know John....that lightning strike explains A LOT!!!! Lot....Happy New year!!!
;)
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: "John Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: lightning strike
Working for that exact airline that Ben is referencing with the
F-28/CRJ-700 turbofans and DHC8 turboprop, they all get their fair share
of lightning exposure. I have a lot of respect for lightning after
getting slapped by it on my first flight decades ago as a zero time
pilot and it happening right after liftoff. PDX tower saw the bolt and
asked if we were okay. I did not know any better at the time. I have
learned that it can cause significant structural damage, destroyed
static wicks, composite panels blown off and component damage which can
ignite adjacent flame resistant materials. It merits consideration.
Your picture Bob looks to be fire damage of the wire looms running to
the CB panels, aft of the CO's seat. It could indeed be lightning but
more likely the secondary effect of playing with Mother Nature on her
terms.
Years ago we had some great posts here on the RV-10 site of static wick
types, locations and advantages of bonding wires between control
surfaces and the primary structure. Our engine shop sees too much of
internal engine damage so I do not want to mitigate the position of P&W
on their mandatory inspection requirements. Our airline would not like
me to release some of the pictures which have been acquired
(clandestinely) while performing "Normal" day to day maintenance. But
Thanks Bob for the post.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: lightning strike
if it doesn't attach this time I'll give up.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279270#279270
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/lightning_145.pdf
Message 39
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I still have not flown (DAR tomorrow then wait for runway(s) to de-ice) and already
my pilotside step is a little loose. I remember that TCW had machined an
insert that they said worked well. Are those commercially avialable or are there
any other "fixes" out there. I did construct access panels so I can get to
those pesky AN-3 bolts. Jay Rowe
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR |
Yeah, I have to smile at that too :-)
However, I was being careful to say, "non-issue electrically". That
same flight engineer (not a pilot) said that physical damage is a big
concern of everyone involved on every strike. He told me about a 6 hour
delay he experienced when the crew spotted what appeared to be hole in
the upper fin. It was immediately assumed to be lightning damage even
though no one was aware of strike. Since the top of the fin is several
stories off the ground they needed scaffolding to inspect it, but high
winds prevented them from bringing that out for while (6 hours). When
they were finally able to get up there, it turned out to be a big blob
of grease from a refueling tanker(!)
Anyway, all the posts seem to point to physical damage being a likely
outcome from a strike, but no one has identified a complete or
unrecoverable electrical failure resulting from a strike yet. Sort of
like Aeroelectric Bob's insistence that modern avionics don't fail from
"voltage spikes" Let's keep searching!
Bill "keeping his shorts dry and clean fooling around in the shop" Watson
Robin Marks wrote:
>
> Spoken like a pilot that "hasn't experienced one yet"
>
> Robin
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> Mauledriver Watson
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:11 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>
> <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>
> Very interesting.
>
> I just talked to a friend who is a newly qualified C5 Galaxy Flight
> Engineer. He hasn't experienced one yet but the concensus is
> "non-issue" electrically.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
Message 41
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Is there now a consensus on the best (read cheapest/best value) 406 ELT
package available? I have to decide soon on one for my 8A (along with
about another million avionics decisions). I can't believe I am here
again!
Thanks,
Robin
Message 42
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| Subject: | Most complete tool kit |
Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
Sent from my iPod
Message 43
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| Subject: | Most complete tool kit |
I went with the Avery Kit and was happy.
Swapped out the C-Frame for the DRDT-2. = Great move.
If I had it to do again:
1) I'd swap out the hand squeezer for their pneumatic squeezer.
2) Order 200 extra 3/32" (Silver) clecos.
3) Order a 12" #12 bit.
4) Load up on extra emery cloth.
5) Load up on extra 1" Scotchbrite wheels.
6) Load up on Scotchbrite (Maroon) pads.
7) Add a longeron yoke.
8) Add a chucking reamer for a #40 and #30. They'll come in handy.
9) I'd swap out their vice-grip style fluting pliers for the more
standard type. SKU #515
10) I'd completely drop their vice grip style dimpling pliers. They're
not needed and don't work that well.
Avery's been great to do business with too. No complaints here.
BTW: Make sure the cleco's you buy are Wedge-Lock. They're the best
ones out there for durability and grabbing strength. Every time I've
ordered cleco's from Avery mine have been Wedge Lock's.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Luis Rodriguez [mailto:luis@cristabelle.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:57 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
Sent from my iPod
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: rudder skins |
You have to match drill the holes into the rudder top and rudder bottom fairings.
It's best to leave the factory holes until you get to the Empenage Fairings
section.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Dec 30, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Sandra & Rick Lark wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I've just started to countersink my rudder skins and am wondering if there is
any reason that the very top and bottom rivet holes could not also be drilled
to size and countersunk (CS4-4 rivets) while I'm doing the rest of the skins.
I couldn't find any reference to these holes in section 7. Having said that
maybe the fairings for top and bottom fit differently after the rudder is assembled.
Anyone know?
>
> Also for the Canadian builders. I'm wondering how far I can assemble the rudder
before I have to stop to allow the MDRA inspection?
>
> Thx
>
> Rick
> #40956
> Southampton, Ont
>
>
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
I love my isham set.
------Original Message------
From: Luis Rodriguez
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Dec 30, 2009 3:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
Sent from my iPod
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
Message 46
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Rick those holes on the tiop are for the fairings and they will be final
drilled along ways down the road follow the plans to the steps and you will
do fine.
John
40864
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sandra & Rick
Lark
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:18 AM
Subject: RV10-List: rudder skins
Hi all
I've just started to countersink my rudder skins and am wondering if there
is any reason that the very top and bottom rivet holes could not also be
drilled to size and countersunk (CS4-4 rivets) while I'm doing the rest of
the skins. I couldn't find any reference to these holes in section 7.
Having said that maybe the fairings for top and bottom fit differently after
the rudder is assembled. Anyone know?
Also for the Canadian builders. I'm wondering how far I can assemble the
rudder before I have to stop to allow the MDRA inspection?
Thx
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR |
Hey that's what I was a C-5 Flight Engineer until retiring in 94 over 13
years flying sideways best job in the world.
John G. Cumins
40864 emp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mauledriver
Watson
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
<MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
Very interesting.
I just talked to a friend who is a newly qualified C5 Galaxy Flight
Engineer. He hasn't experienced one yet but the concensus is
"non-issue" electrically.
Thanks
John Cumins wrote:
>
> Ok here is my 2 cents worth. Being a retired USAF Flight engineer with
> thousands of hours flying hard IFR world wide and in the worst weather
ever,
> and the least amount of good equipment, we did not even have GPS just INS
> and Steam and Tape gages, but we did have Color Radar that was nice for
> thunder storms.
>
> I have been hit by Lightning numerous times, and never once did we loose
> anything electrical at all. Remember the lightning is just a arc that is
> going from negative to positive charge molecules. The current enters thru
> usually a very small pin hole then travels thru the airframe structure,
then
> out a very large hole, usually on the tail of the airplane somewhere. The
> only equipment that I have seen be affected by a lightning strike was the
HO
> radio and that was because the lightning exited the airplane via the HP
> Radio antenna that was embedded into the Vertical stabilizer leading edge
> panel. It blew out the front of the antenna and left a fist size hole in
> it.
>
> I truly think the thought process of a lighning strike is a none issue.
The
> is airplane wise. But nerve wise that's another issue. It will rattle
the
> best persons nerves. I truly thought we hit a wall the first time I was
> struck by lightning. It will scare the SH******t out of you.
>
> John Cumins
> 40864 Emp in pieces getting deburred and primed prior to assembly
>
>
> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:01 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>
>
> I put in touch lights above the rear passengers, where the
> seatbelts attach. Gives them battery powered lighting
> that is independent of all busses, and no need to run wires.
> Can provide pics if you want.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> Perry, Phil wrote:
>
>>
>> They only draw 20ma (per light) so it's really not worth putting your
>> interior lighting behind a lock and then throwing away the key.
>> (Assuming LED lighting - haven't done the math on others.)
>>
>> If you give lighting to all seats your passenger can flip charts for
>> you. Or help you dig through the flight bag that's sitting the back
>> seat. Even at a full 1hr run time 20ma is nothing, but even then you
>> probably won't run the lights all the time. You can turn them on and
>> use them for 2 minutes and then shut them off. That essentially turns
>> the consumption into .6ma and you were still able to have lighting.
>>
>> But even assuming you ran the lights for a full hour at 20ma, that's
>> only a second or two of extra run-time taken off your 15A emergency
>> load. I'd trade a couple of seconds for lights. Having lights
>> available for use will help you shave more than a couple of seconds in
>> time off your flight. You'll get your charts quicker, find buttons
>> quicker, be able to make decisions quicker. I'll bet the time ROI is
>> well over 1000%.
>>
>> I just see no benefit to moving them off the E-bus.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Linn Walters [mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net]
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:29 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>>
>> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> How about a few panel lights and one white spot for the pilot's lap so
>> you can read a kneeboard and the essential instruments and leave all the
>>
>> other illumination on the main buss?
>> Linn
>>
>> Perry, Phil wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Still in the planning session, but it's on the E-bus. For the
>>>
>> marginal
>>
>>> amount of power it draws, there's really no benefit to moving off the
>>> E-bus - but there's a whole lot of drawbacks to losing it.
>>>
>>> Same thing for LED cabin lights. Having two hands to fly the airplane
>>> in an emergency beats holding a flashlight in one hand, flipping
>>>
>> charts
>>
>>> in the other, and flying the airplane with your knees. They draw very
>>> little power and the upside is much greater than the downside.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:37 PM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>>>
>>>
>>> With the discussion of what's on the panel should the electricity
>>>
>> fail,
>>
>>> has anyone thought about the trim? Do the 2-buss people have trim on
>>> their emergency buss?
>>> Flying a partial panel approach without working trim is tough - I'd
>>> probably opt to fly the approach at whatever speed the trim was stuck
>>> at, rather than attempt to hold constant pitch pressure.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Bob Turner
>>> RV-10 QB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279121#279121
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: lightning strike |
I was mis-informed about the lightning photo (too gullible, I guess). Thanks for
the correction.
But I'm still worried about the non-conducting fiberglass cabin, when it comes
to lightning.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279313#279313
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: rudder skins |
You have to match drill the holes into the rudder top and rudder bottom fairings.
It's best to leave the factory holes until you get to the Empenage Fairings
section.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Dec 30, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Sandra & Rick Lark wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I've just started to countersink my rudder skins and am wondering if there is
any reason that the very top and bottom rivet holes could not also be drilled
to size and countersunk (CS4-4 rivets) while I'm doing the rest of the skins.
I couldn't find any reference to these holes in section 7. Having said that
maybe the fairings for top and bottom fit differently after the rudder is assembled.
Anyone know?
>
> Also for the Canadian builders. I'm wondering how far I can assemble the rudder
before I have to stop to allow the MDRA inspection?
>
> Thx
>
> Rick
> #40956
> Southampton, Ont
>
>
>
>
Message 50
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| Subject: | Most complete tool kit |
I went with planetools.com it was totally complete and they had specific
bucking bar for the elevator aft spars. Totally complete. But I have added
about 300 additional #3 clecos
John Cumins
4086 emp in pieces for debur and primering
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Luis Rodriguez
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 2:57 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
Sent from my iPod
Message 51
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|
| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
Depending on how much time you want to spend on this I would tell you
that one can get a great tool kit for about $600. I bought most of my
hydraulic tools on ebay, the boeing store (not an option anymore) and
The Yard Store (refurbished section) My new sioux drill from Brown
tools, otherwise I put a list together, ask builders what I really
needed , Tim Olson being the person who got the brunt on my questions
and ended up getting most things from The Yard Store and Brown Tools.
Brown worked with me on giving me a discount for buying the bulk of my
tools from him but the drills and other basic tools came from The Yard
Store. My non critical tools were bought from Harbor Freight, pop
riveter and things I didn't use much but glad to have for $30 and not
worried if it breaks tomorrow, it was a short term gain and did all I
needed it to do.. still working BTW after doing all of the empennage
floors which is well over 100's of rivets.
In other words, I didn't buy a complete kit, 1) too expensive 2) there
are tools in there that one may use once 3)there are great industrial
quality tools one can buy off of ebay that worked "like new" so rather
than paying $300 plus for a APT recoiless riveter I got it for $69 never
had one ounce of issues with anything I bought hence my suggestion to do
your homework and put the difference saved towards upgrading the axles,
wheels, and other items you'll find you want better quality than what
Vans sends.
If you insist on buying a kit support those who support Doug Reeves of
VAF- Brown Tools, Avery being the two that come to mind. Call them and
see what they can do for you with putting a kit together, great to work
with and they'll take the time to answer any questions.
Best of success with your purchase.
Pascal
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Luis Rodriguez" <luis@cristabelle.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 2:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
>
> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
Coming up with money for my 10 has been tough but I soany a lot of money on really
nice tools and I don't regret it at all. Its amazing how many hours you can
put on a drill or squeezers and guns. Don't go cheap. Also the DRDT 2 dimpler
is awesome and saves a bunch of time. Planetools is ran by isham and he backs
up all his tools. I had a squeezer adjustable set bend and he sent me a new
one.
------Original Message------
From: Luis Rodriguez
Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Dec 30, 2009 3:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
Sent from my iPod
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
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| Subject: | Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone |
Tim thanks, good answer. So looks like you can actually download the
charts, stars, etc and pull them up even offline and that is part of the
basic 69/annual pricing. Are you downloading all charts or just the general
area of your trip. Can you tell how much data storage is used in the iP for
this app plus charts etc. Haven't found out how to do that yet but have the
32g version so I think it shouldn't be a problem.
If Foreflight actually wrote the stuff that AOPA uses, they do good work.
The one ap that is missing is the nice listing that Dan Checkoways does on
his Weithermiester site where it just shows a one line Metars for every site
within XX miles of your route. It's color coded so it is very easy to use/
Pretty unbelievable how far we have come in the last year with the iP.
Do you have any other favorite aps for the iP for flight matters?
Thanks Bill S
7a finishing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone
Bill,
I'm writing this from back home from the trip down to Florida. Used
Foreflight Mobile (3.0 version) for just tons of the trip. The reason I
could easily read the STAR, and yesterday had my approach plate up while in
flight is that 3.0 will allow you to download all the approaches
state-by-state, and also IFR enroute charts, and VFR sectionals, state by
state. The charts and sectionals also work with the iphone GPS (and a
bluetooth GPS if you hack it). So, I didn't need data service to use all
those chart functions. The AOPA app you mention is good, but Foreflight
already also includes all of that too (they made the AOPA app), so if you
have Foreflight, you don't need the separate AOPA app.
I did find that there were plenty of times I didn't have data coverage, but
found many that I did along this trip too. It was very sporadic.
It seems that when I was near 3G coverage areas, it happened more often.
When I flew to KSLC earlier this year, it was funny but I had almost
continuous coverage at 10,000' I think, from Wyoming to Utah. So it really
depends on where you are. In Florida I would often get emails popping in
during the flight...and just randomly along the trip. When I had service
near Nashville, I used it to text back and forth with another RV-10 owner to
have them call ahead to make sure I could get a car at KMYJ. I also a
couple times tried to pull up fuel prices on Airnav just for kicks...and
sometimes had luck. Come to think of it, South Dakota seemed to have
reasonable coverage when I was over there too.
I did shut the phone off into airplane mode when flying IMC in the clouds
though...the phone is a very electrically noisy device and although I
haven't seen any effects on the plane instruments, I didn't want to find
them out at that time. I get tons of speaker interference on telephones and
PC monitor speakers with the iphone.
Voyager also actually came in pretty handy on this trip again.
Between the BNA area and near MSP when I was going home, I tried to do a lot
of that VFR for a while, navigating low around a snowstorm area....just
changing our course as needed to try to make the best forward progress.
This meant we had no defined fuel spot...just wanted to navigate around the
weather.
I was able to slide the map ahead and find a good fuel stop for something
just over $3.60/gal, instead of paying the $4-5 that so many places try to
impose, and ended up at Mexico MO (home of Zenith aircraft) getting a good
fuel price. Probably saved me like $40-60 just for that one fuel stop. I
tried to do as much as I could on this trip with the iPhone though, which
really for me proved it was a fantastic device to have with you on a trip.
I had a moving-map GPS in the car, found my hotels by the iphone, found my
stores and restaurants that way, and even my inlaws house and the nearby
theatre for a movie.
Without that device I'd have had to do a lot more planning or spend a lot
more time getting around.
For those thinking about the Foreflight for iphone, you may want to check
their website quick. I think most of the special upgrade pricing and special
intro pricing expires at the end of the year. Might save a few bucks. I
don't know if I'll have a good write-up put together in time.
For kicks, I've attached 3 screenshots from the trip. The first was the
crappy weather I had to deal with a couple days ago while we came
home...flying from Florida to Wisconsin.
The turbulence got me..I landed at Nashville because having built the plane,
I KNOW that the only thing holding the front of the horizontal stab on is
those 2 L shaped angle brackets...
and we were getting hammered bad enough that I decided I better just wait it
out. The last shot is a not-zoomed-in-too-far photo of that arrival in
Florida. You can zoom them up just like everything else and see them well.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
Bill Schlatterer wrote:
> --> <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Tim, just wondering how that works? I just flew several legs into
> Fort Worth and out and never could get the iPhone to pick up
> consistently. Text messages went OK (not instantly) up to about 2000
> but higher than that was intermittent. My old crack berry was better than
that. Internet access for
> pulling up anything was not useable. My iP is on AT&T. Does Foreflight
> cache the plates or do you have to load them up before getting in the air?
>
> I have been using the new AOPA Mobile ap and it is also very good!
> It's also free with your AOPA subscription.
>
> Bill S
> 7a almost flying
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 5:15 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone
>
>
> You get WAY more than that....confirmation AND the full briefing. I
> had an awesome couple of days with 3.0 so far....this should be a
> great trip write-up. Flying the STAR into KLEE as I type this...with
> the star on the iPhone!
> Tim
>
>
>
> On Dec 23, 2009, at 5:30 PM, "lbgjb10" <lbgjb@gnt.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> If you file your flight plan with Foreflight 3.0, do you get any
>> feedback that the flight plan went thru??
>>
>> --------
>> Larry and Gayle N104LG
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278735#278735
>>
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
I loved mine too though it was 3 years ago.
Getting a chance to try out the various tools at Ron Alexander's week
long build class allowed me to make a number of informed choices about
the kit
sean@braunandco.com wrote:
>
> I love my isham set.
> ------Original Message------
> From: Luis Rodriguez
> Sender: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> ReplyTo: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Dec 30, 2009 3:56 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
>
>
> Which tool kit is the most complete/best to order for the -10.
>
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
>
>
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: rudder skins |
You have to match drill the holes into the rudder top and rudder bottom fairings.
It's best to leave the factory holes until you get to the Empenage Fairings
section.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Dec 30, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Sandra & Rick Lark wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I've just started to countersink my rudder skins and am wondering if there is
any reason that the very top and bottom rivet holes could not also be drilled
to size and countersunk (CS4-4 rivets) while I'm doing the rest of the skins.
I couldn't find any reference to these holes in section 7. Having said that
maybe the fairings for top and bottom fit differently after the rudder is assembled.
Anyone know?
>
> Also for the Canadian builders. I'm wondering how far I can assemble the rudder
before I have to stop to allow the MDRA inspection?
>
> Thx
>
> Rick
> #40956
> Southampton, Ont
>
>
>
>
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: lightning strike |
You could probably install a lightning rod; perhaps Deems can come up with a
mod. Perhaps a refueling probe from E6 in the forward cowl. From what I
understand there are going to be many more acceptable ways for the
electricity to get though our aircraft than fiberglass.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Turner
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: lightning strike
I was mis-informed about the lightning photo (too gullible, I guess). Thanks
for the correction.
But I'm still worried about the non-conducting fiberglass cabin, when it
comes to lightning.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279313#279313
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I'm planning to pour epoxy/flocks in to the step with mold release on
the bolt. Nick Gautier ran a test on this, putting it through a
number of hot/cold shock cycles. As I recall, it took a significant
and immediate temperature change for the flocks to separate from the
inside of the step.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
On Dec 30, 2009, at 2:12 PM, <jfrjr@roadrunner.com> <jfrjr@roadrunner.com
> wrote:
>
> I still have not flown (DAR tomorrow then wait for runway(s) to de-
> ice) and already my pilotside step is a little loose. I remember
> that TCW had machined an insert that they said worked well. Are
> those commercially avialable or are there any other "fixes" out
> there. I did construct access panels so I can get to those pesky
> AN-3 bolts. Jay Rowe
>
>
Message 58
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Robin,
Who knows which elt is the best and the brightest. I went with the Artex ME406,
and unfortunately can tell you it works very well. During installation I unknowingly
and inadvertently triggered the elt. Later that night the local CAP guy
knocked on my door, having picked up the signal at his house more than 10 miles
away, ground to ground. I thought that range was impressive.
Isn't it about time for another elt versus plb debate? Primer wars are so last
decade.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279322#279322
Message 59
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| Subject: | Automotive Spark Plugs |
Is anyone using Automotive spark plugs with their electronic ignition on the IO-540
D5A4 engine??
If so, what is the part number?
I just dropped one of my UREM 38 S plugs and broke the ceramic. I've heard that
Champion wants $75 for one of them.
Ron Grover
40063
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279323#279323
Message 60
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I think Ack's is probably the cheapest at under $600 bones. They've been
on a long road to certification and should be ready to start shipping any
time now. They have all their approvals except CORPAS/SARSAT and are expec
ting it shortly.
http://www.ackavionics.com/
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: 406 ELT's
Is there now a consensus on the best (read cheapest/best value) 406 ELT pac
kage available? I have to decide soon on one for my 8A (along with about an
other million avionics decisions). I can't believe I am here again!
Thanks,
Robin
rsbooks.com>
m>
Message 61
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| Subject: | Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR |
Flying sideways.. I like that.
Well, my friend is actually my "little brother" from previous
involvement in the Big Brother program. I'm just busting out proud of
this young man!
It doesn't seem to be bad duty in a war time USAF. The long hours seem
to lead him home on a pretty regular basis. At least compared to too
many of his peers.
Bill
do not archive
John Cumins wrote:
>
> Hey that's what I was a C-5 Flight Engineer until retiring in 94 over 13
> years flying sideways best job in the world.
>
> John G. Cumins
> 40864 emp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Mauledriver
> Watson
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:11 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>
> <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>
> Very interesting.
>
> I just talked to a friend who is a newly qualified C5 Galaxy Flight
> Engineer. He hasn't experienced one yet but the concensus is
> "non-issue" electrically.
>
> Thanks
>
> John Cumins wrote:
>
>>
>> Ok here is my 2 cents worth. Being a retired USAF Flight engineer with
>> thousands of hours flying hard IFR world wide and in the worst weather
>>
> ever,
>
>> and the least amount of good equipment, we did not even have GPS just INS
>> and Steam and Tape gages, but we did have Color Radar that was nice for
>> thunder storms.
>>
>> I have been hit by Lightning numerous times, and never once did we loose
>> anything electrical at all. Remember the lightning is just a arc that is
>> going from negative to positive charge molecules. The current enters thru
>> usually a very small pin hole then travels thru the airframe structure,
>>
> then
>
>> out a very large hole, usually on the tail of the airplane somewhere. The
>> only equipment that I have seen be affected by a lightning strike was the
>>
> HO
>
>> radio and that was because the lightning exited the airplane via the HP
>> Radio antenna that was embedded into the Vertical stabilizer leading edge
>> panel. It blew out the front of the antenna and left a fist size hole in
>> it.
>>
>> I truly think the thought process of a lighning strike is a none issue.
>>
> The
>
>> is airplane wise. But nerve wise that's another issue. It will rattle
>>
> the
>
>> best persons nerves. I truly thought we hit a wall the first time I was
>> struck by lightning. It will scare the SH******t out of you.
>>
>> John Cumins
>> 40864 Emp in pieces getting deburred and primed prior to assembly
>>
>>
>> Your Total Technology Solution Provider
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:01 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>>
>>
>> I put in touch lights above the rear passengers, where the
>> seatbelts attach. Gives them battery powered lighting
>> that is independent of all busses, and no need to run wires.
>> Can provide pics if you want.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Perry, Phil wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> They only draw 20ma (per light) so it's really not worth putting your
>>> interior lighting behind a lock and then throwing away the key.
>>> (Assuming LED lighting - haven't done the math on others.)
>>>
>>> If you give lighting to all seats your passenger can flip charts for
>>> you. Or help you dig through the flight bag that's sitting the back
>>> seat. Even at a full 1hr run time 20ma is nothing, but even then you
>>> probably won't run the lights all the time. You can turn them on and
>>> use them for 2 minutes and then shut them off. That essentially turns
>>> the consumption into .6ma and you were still able to have lighting.
>>>
>>> But even assuming you ran the lights for a full hour at 20ma, that's
>>> only a second or two of extra run-time taken off your 15A emergency
>>> load. I'd trade a couple of seconds for lights. Having lights
>>> available for use will help you shave more than a couple of seconds in
>>> time off your flight. You'll get your charts quicker, find buttons
>>> quicker, be able to make decisions quicker. I'll bet the time ROI is
>>> well over 1000%.
>>>
>>> I just see no benefit to moving them off the E-bus.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Linn Walters [mailto:pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:29 AM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>>>
>>> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>>>
>>> How about a few panel lights and one white spot for the pilot's lap so
>>> you can read a kneeboard and the essential instruments and leave all the
>>>
>>> other illumination on the main buss?
>>> Linn
>>>
>>> Perry, Phil wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Still in the planning session, but it's on the E-bus. For the
>>>>
>>>>
>>> marginal
>>>
>>>
>>>> amount of power it draws, there's really no benefit to moving off the
>>>> E-bus - but there's a whole lot of drawbacks to losing it.
>>>>
>>>> Same thing for LED cabin lights. Having two hands to fly the airplane
>>>> in an emergency beats holding a flashlight in one hand, flipping
>>>>
>>>>
>>> charts
>>>
>>>
>>>> in the other, and flying the airplane with your knees. They draw very
>>>> little power and the upside is much greater than the downside.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:37 PM
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With the discussion of what's on the panel should the electricity
>>>>
>>>>
>>> fail,
>>>
>>>
>>>> has anyone thought about the trim? Do the 2-buss people have trim on
>>>> their emergency buss?
>>>> Flying a partial panel approach without working trim is tough - I'd
>>>> probably opt to fly the approach at whatever speed the trim was stuck
>>>> at, rather than attempt to hold constant pitch pressure.
>>>>
>>>> --------
>>>> Bob Turner
>>>> RV-10 QB
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279121#279121
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 62
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| Subject: | Re: rudder skins |
You have to match drill the holes into the rudder top and rudder bottom fairings.
It's best to leave the factory holes until you get to the Empenage Fairings
section.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Dec 30, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Sandra & Rick Lark wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I've just started to countersink my rudder skins and am wondering if there is
any reason that the very top and bottom rivet holes could not also be drilled
to size and countersunk (CS4-4 rivets) while I'm doing the rest of the skins.
I couldn't find any reference to these holes in section 7. Having said that
maybe the fairings for top and bottom fit differently after the rudder is assembled.
Anyone know?
>
> Also for the Canadian builders. I'm wondering how far I can assemble the rudder
before I have to stop to allow the MDRA inspection?
>
> Thx
>
> Rick
> #40956
> Southampton, Ont
>
>
>
>
Message 63
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive Spark Plugs |
NGK BR8ES or BR9ES--- the 8 is hotter than the 9.- 2=hot, 10=co
ld.- I bought a bunch of both.- Also Densco from Lightspeed W27EMR-C
Don McDonald
--- On Wed, 12/30/09, rv8grover@verizon.net <rv8grover@verizon.net> wrote:
From: rv8grover@verizon.net <rv8grover@verizon.net>
Subject: RV10-List: Automotive Spark Plugs
.net>
Is anyone using Automotive spark plugs with their electronic ignition on th
e IO-540 D5A4 engine??
If so, what is the part number?
I just dropped one of my UREM 38 S plugs and broke the ceramic. I've heard
that Champion wants $75 for one of them.
Ron Grover
40063
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279323#279323
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 64
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| Subject: | Automotive Spark Plugs |
If you are using Lightspeeds, it is perfectly acceptable to use automotive plugs.
I picked up some Iridium Denso's off of eBay not long ago. They are one
of the types listed by Klaus.
http://tinyurl.com/yabmab9
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv8grover@verizon.net
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 6:59 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Automotive Spark Plugs
Is anyone using Automotive spark plugs with their electronic ignition on the IO-540
D5A4 engine??
If so, what is the part number?
I just dropped one of my UREM 38 S plugs and broke the ceramic. I've heard that
Champion wants $75 for one of them.
Ron Grover
40063
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279323#279323
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| Subject: | Automotive Spark Plugs |
The standard setup for electronic ignitions and standard compression
Lycoming engines is NGK BR8ES. You can typically get these for $1.60 or so
each. Remember you will need to use an adapter. Here are a couple of links
for the adapter
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/plugadapter.php or
http://lightspeedengineering.com/Products/Sparkplugs.htm
I'm running these plugs in my IO-360 (180hp) RV-8A for the last several
hundred hours (eMag ignitions). I'll use them in the RV-10 assuming eMag
gets their 6 cylinder EI done in time.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rv8grover@verizon.net
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:59 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Automotive Spark Plugs
<rv8grover@verizon.net>
Is anyone using Automotive spark plugs with their electronic ignition on the
IO-540 D5A4 engine??
If so, what is the part number?
I just dropped one of my UREM 38 S plugs and broke the ceramic. I've heard
that Champion wants $75 for one of them.
Ron Grover
40063
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279323#279323
Message 66
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Jerry,
Primer wars as SOOOOO Analog.
Thanks for your input,
Robin
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Berry
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:53 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: 406 ELT's
Robin,
Who knows which elt is the best and the brightest. I went with the Artex
ME406, and unfortunately can tell you it works very well. During
installation I unknowingly and inadvertently triggered the elt. Later
that night the local CAP guy knocked on my door, having picked up the
signal at his house more than 10 miles away, ground to ground. I thought
that range was impressive.
Isn't it about time for another elt versus plb debate? Primer wars are
so last decade.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279322#279322
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| Subject: | Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone |
I'll reply longer in another post maybe, but for now to answer one
question, I think on their site it says all charts total is 5gb. I
downloaded most of the is except Alaska and Hawaii. Mainly because we
often decide on our vacation destinations the night before, so I have
to be prepared for anything. 32gb will do you real well.
Tim
On Dec 30, 2009, at 6:34 PM, "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net
> wrote:
> >
>
> Tim thanks, good answer. So looks like you can actually download the
> charts, stars, etc and pull them up even offline and that is part of
> the
> basic 69/annual pricing. Are you downloading all charts or just the
> general
> area of your trip. Can you tell how much data storage is used in the
> iP for
> this app plus charts etc. Haven't found out how to do that yet but
> have the
> 32g version so I think it shouldn't be a problem.
>
> If Foreflight actually wrote the stuff that AOPA uses, they do good
> work.
> The one ap that is missing is the nice listing that Dan Checkoways
> does on
> his Weithermiester site where it just shows a one line Metars for
> every site
> within XX miles of your route. It's color coded so it is very easy
> to use/
>
> Pretty unbelievable how far we have come in the last year with the iP.
>
> Do you have any other favorite aps for the iP for flight matters?
>
> Thanks Bill S
> 7a finishing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 8:52 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone
>
> Bill,
>
> I'm writing this from back home from the trip down to Florida. Used
> Foreflight Mobile (3.0 version) for just tons of the trip. The
> reason I
> could easily read the STAR, and yesterday had my approach plate up
> while in
> flight is that 3.0 will allow you to download all the approaches
> state-by-state, and also IFR enroute charts, and VFR sectionals,
> state by
> state. The charts and sectionals also work with the iphone GPS (and a
> bluetooth GPS if you hack it). So, I didn't need data service to
> use all
> those chart functions. The AOPA app you mention is good, but
> Foreflight
> already also includes all of that too (they made the AOPA app), so
> if you
> have Foreflight, you don't need the separate AOPA app.
>
> I did find that there were plenty of times I didn't have data
> coverage, but
> found many that I did along this trip too. It was very sporadic.
> It seems that when I was near 3G coverage areas, it happened more
> often.
> When I flew to KSLC earlier this year, it was funny but I had almost
> continuous coverage at 10,000' I think, from Wyoming to Utah. So it
> really
> depends on where you are. In Florida I would often get emails
> popping in
> during the flight...and just randomly along the trip. When I had
> service
> near Nashville, I used it to text back and forth with another RV-10
> owner to
> have them call ahead to make sure I could get a car at KMYJ. I also a
> couple times tried to pull up fuel prices on Airnav just for
> kicks...and
> sometimes had luck. Come to think of it, South Dakota seemed to have
> reasonable coverage when I was over there too.
>
> I did shut the phone off into airplane mode when flying IMC in the
> clouds
> though...the phone is a very electrically noisy device and although I
> haven't seen any effects on the plane instruments, I didn't want to
> find
> them out at that time. I get tons of speaker interference on
> telephones and
> PC monitor speakers with the iphone.
>
> Voyager also actually came in pretty handy on this trip again.
> Between the BNA area and near MSP when I was going home, I tried to
> do a lot
> of that VFR for a while, navigating low around a snowstorm
> area....just
> changing our course as needed to try to make the best forward
> progress.
> This meant we had no defined fuel spot...just wanted to navigate
> around the
> weather.
> I was able to slide the map ahead and find a good fuel stop for
> something
> just over $3.60/gal, instead of paying the $4-5 that so many places
> try to
> impose, and ended up at Mexico MO (home of Zenith aircraft) getting
> a good
> fuel price. Probably saved me like $40-60 just for that one fuel
> stop. I
> tried to do as much as I could on this trip with the iPhone though,
> which
> really for me proved it was a fantastic device to have with you on a
> trip.
> I had a moving-map GPS in the car, found my hotels by the iphone,
> found my
> stores and restaurants that way, and even my inlaws house and the
> nearby
> theatre for a movie.
> Without that device I'd have had to do a lot more planning or spend
> a lot
> more time getting around.
>
> For those thinking about the Foreflight for iphone, you may want to
> check
> their website quick. I think most of the special upgrade pricing and
> special
> intro pricing expires at the end of the year. Might save a few
> bucks. I
> don't know if I'll have a good write-up put together in time.
>
> For kicks, I've attached 3 screenshots from the trip. The first was
> the
> crappy weather I had to deal with a couple days ago while we came
> home...flying from Florida to Wisconsin.
> The turbulence got me..I landed at Nashville because having built
> the plane,
> I KNOW that the only thing holding the front of the horizontal stab
> on is
> those 2 L shaped angle brackets...
> and we were getting hammered bad enough that I decided I better just
> wait it
> out. The last shot is a not-zoomed-in-too-far photo of that arrival
> in
> Florida. You can zoom them up just like everything else and see
> them well.
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>
>
> Bill Schlatterer wrote:
>> --> <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> Tim, just wondering how that works? I just flew several legs into
>> Fort Worth and out and never could get the iPhone to pick up
>> consistently. Text messages went OK (not instantly) up to about 2000
>> but higher than that was intermittent. My old crack berry was
>> better than
> that. Internet access for
>> pulling up anything was not useable. My iP is on AT&T. Does
>> Foreflight
>> cache the plates or do you have to load them up before getting in
>> the air?
>>
>> I have been using the new AOPA Mobile ap and it is also very good!
>> It's also free with your AOPA subscription.
>>
>> Bill S
>> 7a almost flying
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 5:15 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Foreflight Mobile 3.0 for iPhone
>>
>>
>> You get WAY more than that....confirmation AND the full briefing. I
>> had an awesome couple of days with 3.0 so far....this should be a
>> great trip write-up. Flying the STAR into KLEE as I type this...with
>> the star on the iPhone!
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 23, 2009, at 5:30 PM, "lbgjb10" <lbgjb@gnt.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> If you file your flight plan with Foreflight 3.0, do you get any
>>> feedback that the flight plan went thru??
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Larry and Gayle N104LG
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278735#278735
>>>
>
>
Message 68
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| Subject: | Automotive Spark Plugs |
Ron
Any spark plug dropped should be replaced no matter if you can see the
ceramic broken or not. I feel for you they are very expensive but will last
quite a while. U use fine wore plugs in all my planes and usually get tbo
out of them.
John G. Cumins
40864 emp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rv8grover@verizon.net
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:59 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Automotive Spark Plugs
<rv8grover@verizon.net>
Is anyone using Automotive spark plugs with their electronic ignition on the
IO-540 D5A4 engine??
If so, what is the part number?
I just dropped one of my UREM 38 S plugs and broke the ceramic. I've heard
that Champion wants $75 for one of them.
Ron Grover
40063
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279323#279323
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
Suggest adding a Harbor Freight set of cobalt number size drills for
the $20 bucks or so, because there are holes that the plans call for
drill sizes not supplied in my Isham kit and not too common generally.
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry@netapp.com> wrote:
> 8) Add a chucking reamer for a #40 and #30. They'll come in handy.
#41 reamer works better. You don't want the hole any bigger than
necessary. I have both, but have gone to just the smaller 41 because
the dimpling will enlarge the hole anyway.
> 9) I'd swap out their vice-grip style fluting pliers for the more
> standard type. SKU #515
> 10) I'd completely drop their vice grip style dimpling pliers. They're
> not needed and don't work that well.
I've used my dimpling pliers quite a few times, where nothing else but
pop-rivet dimpler would reach, and doesn't do as nice a job.
> Avery's been great to do business with too. No complaints here.
>
> BTW: Make sure the cleco's you buy are Wedge-Lock. They're the best
> ones out there for durability and grabbing strength. Every time I've
> ordered cleco's from Avery mine have been Wedge Lock's.
>
> Phil
While the pneumatic squeezer is great, there are times I'd like to
have manual squeezer for certain tasks.
Message 70
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I just ordered an Ameri-King 406 for my 10. They call it an AK-451. It's
supposed to be a drop-in for the ELT that's in it now. I didn't get the one
with GPS interface because we also have a SPOT so I figured we're pretty
well covered.
We've had a lot of problems with standard ACK ELTs over the years--lots of
false trips and g-switches that were either too soft or too hard. The
Ameri-Kings have always worked well, and aren't that much more expensive.
Anybody need an AK-450? Makes a good door stop...
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Robin Marks <robin1@mrmoisture.com> wrote:
>
> Jerry,
> Primer wars as SOOOOO Analog.
> Thanks for your input,
> Robin
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Berry
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:53 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: 406 ELT's
>
>
> Robin,
>
> Who knows which elt is the best and the brightest. I went with the Artex
> ME406, and unfortunately can tell you it works very well. During
> installation I unknowingly and inadvertently triggered the elt. Later
> that night the local CAP guy knocked on my door, having picked up the
> signal at his house more than 10 miles away, ground to ground. I thought
> that range was impressive.
>
> Isn't it about time for another elt versus plb debate? Primer wars are
> so last decade.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279322#279322
>
>
Message 71
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| Subject: | Re: lightning strike |
(in the background Johnny Mathis sings "Chances Are" over and over .....
chances are since the fiberglass is non conducting ...(don't really know
about the carbon fiber!) that any lightning strike will hit the
aluminum, looking for the least resistance to ground. It probably
wouldn't be any difference wet since pure water doesn't conduct well.
Having said that .... lightning really does some strange things and it
all depends on Mother's attitude at the time.
Linn
Bob Turner wrote:
>
> I was mis-informed about the lightning photo (too gullible, I guess). Thanks
for the correction.
>
> But I'm still worried about the non-conducting fiberglass cabin, when it comes
to lightning.
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279313#279313
>
>
>
Message 72
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| Subject: | Re: Most complete tool kit |
Oh ya add a nice punch set. I forgot what they are called but they use a bolt to
make holes in tight places and firewalls. Half inch thru one and a quarter.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Most complete tool kit
Suggest adding a Harbor Freight set of cobalt number size drills for
the $20 bucks or so, because there are holes that the plans call for
drill sizes not supplied in my Isham kit and not too common generally.
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry@netapp.com> wrote:
> 8) Add a chucking reamer for a #40 and #30. They'll come in handy.
#41 reamer works better. You don't want the hole any bigger than
necessary. I have both, but have gone to just the smaller 41 because
the dimpling will enlarge the hole anyway.
> 9) I'd swap out their vice-grip style fluting pliers for the more
> standard type. SKU #515
> 10) I'd completely drop their vice grip style dimpling pliers. They're
> not needed and don't work that well.
I've used my dimpling pliers quite a few times, where nothing else but
pop-rivet dimpler would reach, and doesn't do as nice a job.
> Avery's been great to do business with too. No complaints here.
>
> BTW: Make sure the cleco's you buy are Wedge-Lock. They're the best
> ones out there for durability and grabbing strength. Every time I've
> ordered cleco's from Avery mine have been Wedge Lock's.
>
> Phil
While the pneumatic squeezer is great, there are times I'd like to
have manual squeezer for certain tasks.
Message 73
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| Subject: | Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR |
Well, the main bus on my Mooney has non-pullable breakers, under a
cover panel. The aux bus has boost pump, landing light, pitot heat,
nav lights and strobes all on P&B circuit breaker switches. They seem
to wear out after perhaps 40 years/6000 hours..just causes them to
trip at lower amps.
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 12:04 PM, John Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
>
> We are always having joust sessions at work between opening and closing
> of CBs. Pilots have one position (Pullable), Mechanics have a second
> (Settable) and now the FAA wants to clarify a third (One time only) with
> the new SIAD. Ya, all might read the SIAD on circuit breakers when
> forming your position, as you formulate your build plans. Some feel a
> CB is an Inflight form of Switch.
>
> John C.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:03 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>
>
> How about two buses and all each appliance to its own breaker; then make
> all
> breakers pull able or toggle able. With everything selectable on either
> bus
> trim can be on either bus and still be useable. My avionics master is a
> toggle able breaker. The single alternator can push power to the
> essential
> bus through a power diode or through an avionics breaker which connects
> the
> two buses. The alternator can get its excitation voltage from the
> essential
> bus battery instead of the main battery if off line. That way I still
> have
> control over the electric fuel pump for landing as well as any other
> appliances which may be needed for only a short time or after landing.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Linn Walters
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:29 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>
> --> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>
> How about a few panel lights and one white spot for the pilot's lap so
> you
> can read a kneeboard and the essential instruments and leave all the
> other
> illumination on the main buss?
> Linn
>
> Perry, Phil wrote:
>>
>> Still in the planning session, but it's on the E-bus. For the
>> marginal amount of power it draws, there's really no benefit to moving
>
>> off the E-bus - but there's a whole lot of drawbacks to losing it.
>>
>> Same thing for LED cabin lights. Having two hands to fly the airplane
>
>> in an emergency beats holding a flashlight in one hand, flipping
>> charts in the other, and flying the airplane with your knees. They
>> draw very little power and the upside is much greater than the
> downside.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bob Turner [mailto:bobturner@alum.rpi.edu]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:37 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Re: suitable backup instrumentation for IFR
>>
>>
>> With the discussion of what's on the panel should the electricity
>> fail, has anyone thought about the trim? Do the 2-buss people have
>> trim on their emergency buss?
>> Flying a partial panel approach without working trim is tough - I'd
>> probably opt to fly the approach at whatever speed the trim was stuck
>> at, rather than attempt to hold constant pitch pressure.
>>
>> --------
>> Bob Turner
>> RV-10 QB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279121#279121
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 74
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| Subject: | Re: rudder skins |
Thx Jesse and John, I decided to "leave well enough alone" and wait until I
see instructions in the plans.
Regards, Rick
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Cumins" <jcumins@jcis.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: rudder skins
>
>
> Rick those holes on the tiop are for the fairings and they will be final
> drilled along ways down the road follow the plans to the steps and you
> will
> do fine.
>
>
> John
> 40864
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sandra & Rick
> Lark
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:18 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: rudder skins
>
>
> Hi all
>
> I've just started to countersink my rudder skins and am wondering if there
> is any reason that the very top and bottom rivet holes could not also be
> drilled to size and countersunk (CS4-4 rivets) while I'm doing the rest of
> the skins. I couldn't find any reference to these holes in section 7.
> Having said that maybe the fairings for top and bottom fit differently
> after
> the rudder is assembled. Anyone know?
>
> Also for the Canadian builders. I'm wondering how far I can assemble the
> rudder before I have to stop to allow the MDRA inspection?
>
> Thx
>
> Rick
> #40956
> Southampton, Ont
>
>
>
Message 75
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| Subject: | Overhead map and panel lighting options |
I'm looking for some suggestions for overhead lighting. I have Dave
Saylor's mini console and would like to choose some lights to install in
it.
Stein and ACS have some swivel LED lights and they look good.
Perihelion goosenecks look interesting but not sure how they really look.
I assume dimming them would be a good thing but not mandatory. Or
switches are required.
I'm thinking a white light and a separate red or blue would the
solution. I've flown with red but never with blue. Not sure what the
trade-offs are.
BTW, I'm installing the 430W GPS antenna directly over the mini-console
with the cable going thru the center post. I'm also in the process of
installing 2 more GPS antenna (GRT & ADI) on the windshield lip so that
they will clear any paint. They will be angled slightly forward but I'm
thinking that will work well. All of those cables plus power for the
lights seems to be fitting in the center post.
What do you think?
Bill "ready for some NYE celebration" Watson
Message 76
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| Subject: | Overhead map and panel lighting options |
I'm looking for some suggestions for overhead lighting. I have Dave
Saylor's mini console and would like to choose some lights to install in
it.
Stein and ACS have some swivel LED lights and they look good.
Perihelion goosenecks look interesting but not sure how they really look.
I assume dimming them would be a good thing but not mandatory. Or
switches are required.
I'm thinking a white light and a separate red or blue would the
solution. I've flown with red but never with blue. Not sure what the
trade-offs are.
BTW, I'm installing the 430W GPS antenna directly over the mini-console
with the cable going thru the center post. I'm also in the process of
installing 2 more GPS antenna (GRT & ADI) on the windshield lip so that
they will clear any paint. They will be angled slightly forward but I'm
thinking that will work well. All of those cables plus power for the
lights seems to be fitting in the center post.
What do you think?
Bill "ready for some NYE celebration" Watson
Message 77
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| Subject: | Re: Overhead map and panel lighting options |
Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote:
> <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>
> I'm looking for some suggestions for overhead lighting. I have Dave
> Saylor's mini console and would like to choose some lights to install
> in it.
> Stein and ACS have some swivel LED lights and they look good.
> Perihelion goosenecks look interesting but not sure how they really look.
I'm building my own overhead console and going to use it to duct fresh
air overhead and a place to put overhead lights. I also looked at
Stein's lights. The base is reasonable, but the LED lights that fit are
$50!!! I'm probably going to order one base and see if I can't use a
$15 LED turn signal.
http://www.amazon.com/VOLVO-replacement-blinker-light-signal/dp/B000LL9W4I
> I assume dimming them would be a good thing but not mandatory. Or
> switches are required.
I'd definitely provide a switch for each light. Dimmable is a good idea.
> I'm thinking a white light and a separate red or blue would the
> solution. I've flown with red but never with blue. Not sure what the
> trade-offs are.
Well, I found out that the magenta on a chart disappears with red
light! I plan on giving each seat a white light
> BTW, I'm installing the 430W GPS antenna directly over the
> mini-console with the cable going thru the center post. I'm also in
> the process of installing 2 more GPS antenna (GRT & ADI) on the
> windshield lip so that they will clear any paint. They will be angled
> slightly forward but I'm thinking that will work well. All of those
> cables plus power for the lights seems to be fitting in the center post.
>
> What do you think?
I think you're on the right track.
Linn
>
>
> Bill "ready for some NYE celebration" Watson
>
>
Message 78
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| Subject: | Overhead map and panel lighting options |
Bill "up too late" Watson,
Have you checked out these from Aveo Engineering? They have switches
and dimmers built directly into the light frame and use touch sensing
like the old iPods.
This one is a white/red combo:
http://www.aveoengineering.com/Aviation/Airplane_LED_Lights/cockpit_LED_
lights/EyeBeam_Touch/index.php
This one is a white/red/green/blue combo:
http://www.aveoengineering.com/Aviation/Airplane_LED_Lights/cockpit_LED_
lights/EyeBeam_Touch_NVG/index.php
I'm not sure if they're available for sale yet, but it might be worth a
phone call just to check. I'm hoping to get serious about light
purchases at OSH this year, so if they aren't available - I hope they
are by OSH.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson [mailto:MauleDriver@nc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:16 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Overhead map and panel lighting options
<MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
I'm looking for some suggestions for overhead lighting. I have Dave
Saylor's mini console and would like to choose some lights to install in
it.
Stein and ACS have some swivel LED lights and they look good.
Perihelion goosenecks look interesting but not sure how they really
look.
I assume dimming them would be a good thing but not mandatory. Or
switches are required.
I'm thinking a white light and a separate red or blue would the
solution. I've flown with red but never with blue. Not sure what the
trade-offs are.
BTW, I'm installing the 430W GPS antenna directly over the mini-console
with the cable going thru the center post. I'm also in the process of
installing 2 more GPS antenna (GRT & ADI) on the windshield lip so that
they will clear any paint. They will be angled slightly forward but I'm
thinking that will work well. All of those cables plus power for the
lights seems to be fitting in the center post.
What do you think?
Bill "ready for some NYE celebration" Watson
Message 79
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| Subject: | Re: Overhead map and panel lighting options |
I put one each of Stein's swivel LEDs in the front edge or our console. I
had to go back later and really slather up the securing nuts with flox to
make them stay tight. No problems now, though. Nice and tight. They're
dimmed by pots on the panel.
I recently put one of Van's $9 white LEDs pointing straight down in the same
console. It runs off a little overhead toggle switch. I understand it'll
run off a 9V battery, and it would be cool to have another position on the
switch to select that, you know, just in case...
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 9:16 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson <
MauleDriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>
> I'm looking for some suggestions for overhead lighting. I have Dave
> Saylor's mini console and would like to choose some lights to install in it.
> Stein and ACS have some swivel LED lights and they look good. Perihelion
> goosenecks look interesting but not sure how they really look.
>
> I assume dimming them would be a good thing but not mandatory. Or switches
> are required.
>
> I'm thinking a white light and a separate red or blue would the solution.
> I've flown with red but never with blue. Not sure what the trade-offs are.
>
> BTW, I'm installing the 430W GPS antenna directly over the mini-console
> with the cable going thru the center post. I'm also in the process of
> installing 2 more GPS antenna (GRT & ADI) on the windshield lip so that they
> will clear any paint. They will be angled slightly forward but I'm thinking
> that will work well. All of those cables plus power for the lights seems to
> be fitting in the center post.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Bill "ready for some NYE celebration" Watson
>
>
Message 80
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| Subject: | Re: Overhead map and panel lighting options |
Spruce has the Aveo lights for sale for $139 each (cough)...plus $9 for the
faceplate and $5 for the sticky stuff to hold 'em on.
I kind of like the reassuring snap of a toggle switch.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry@netapp.com> wrote:
>
> Bill "up too late" Watson,
>
> Have you checked out these from Aveo Engineering? They have switches
> and dimmers built directly into the light frame and use touch sensing
> like the old iPods.
>
> This one is a white/red combo:
> http://www.aveoengineering.com/Aviation/Airplane_LED_Lights/cockpit_LED_
> lights/EyeBeam_Touch/index.php<http://www.aveoengineering.com/Aviation/Airplane_LED_Lights/cockpit_LED_%0Alights/EyeBeam_Touch/index.php>
>
> This one is a white/red/green/blue combo:
> http://www.aveoengineering.com/Aviation/Airplane_LED_Lights/cockpit_LED_
> lights/EyeBeam_Touch_NVG/index.php<http://www.aveoengineering.com/Aviation/Airplane_LED_Lights/cockpit_LED_%0Alights/EyeBeam_Touch_NVG/index.php>
>
> I'm not sure if they're available for sale yet, but it might be worth a
> phone call just to check. I'm hoping to get serious about light
> purchases at OSH this year, so if they aren't available - I hope they
> are by OSH.
>
> Phil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Mauledriver Watson [mailto:MauleDriver@nc.rr.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:16 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Overhead map and panel lighting options
>
> <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>
> I'm looking for some suggestions for overhead lighting. I have Dave
> Saylor's mini console and would like to choose some lights to install in
>
> it.
> Stein and ACS have some swivel LED lights and they look good.
> Perihelion goosenecks look interesting but not sure how they really
> look.
>
> I assume dimming them would be a good thing but not mandatory. Or
> switches are required.
>
> I'm thinking a white light and a separate red or blue would the
> solution. I've flown with red but never with blue. Not sure what the
> trade-offs are.
>
> BTW, I'm installing the 430W GPS antenna directly over the mini-console
>
> with the cable going thru the center post. I'm also in the process of
> installing 2 more GPS antenna (GRT & ADI) on the windshield lip so that
> they will clear any paint. They will be angled slightly forward but I'm
>
> thinking that will work well. All of those cables plus power for the
> lights seems to be fitting in the center post.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Bill "ready for some NYE celebration" Watson
>
>
Message 81
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| Subject: | Re: lightning strike |
Who said just one. It was the "Back to the Future" effect on other body
functions that were a real shocker.
Happy and Safe New Year in 2010.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ricksked@cox.net
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: lightning strike
You know John....that lightning strike explains A LOT!!!!
Lot....Happy New year!!! ;)
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279270#279270
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/lightning_145.pdf
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